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[WNxTyr4el]

So I'm new here for those of you who haven't posted to my thread yet .  I thought it'd be a good idea to post some of my wins/losses and see what I could have done better to win or done better to be more efficient at winning. 

Fortunately my first game I'm going to post is a win.  I just did this one against the AI and was wondering if there's anything I could have or should have done differently.  Just let me know!  Thanks!

(If anyone knows how to do an EXPAND box, that would help too).

------------ Game Setup ------------
Supply cards: Cellar, Moat, Village, Bridge, Smithy, Throne Room, Laboratory, Saboteur, Trading Post, Adventurer, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province, Curse
Rating system: adventure
WNxTyr4el - starting cards: Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Silver, Silver, Estate, Estate, Estate
Squire Sedgewick - starting cards: Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper, Estate, Estate, Estate
WNxTyr4el - shuffles deck
Squire Sedgewick - shuffles deck
WNxTyr4el - draws Silver, Estate, Copper, Estate, Copper
Squire Sedgewick - draws Estate, Copper, Copper, Copper, Estate
 
---------- Squire Sedgewick: turn 1 ----------
Squire Sedgewick - plays 3 Copper
Squire Sedgewick - buys Silver
Squire Sedgewick - gains Silver
Squire Sedgewick - draws Copper, Copper, Copper, Estate, Copper
 
---------- WNxTyr4el: turn 1 ----------
WNxTyr4el - plays 2 Copper, 1 Silver
WNxTyr4el - buys Silver
WNxTyr4el - gains Silver
WNxTyr4el - draws Copper, Silver, Copper, Estate, Copper
 
---------- Squire Sedgewick: turn 2 ----------
Squire Sedgewick - plays 4 Copper
Squire Sedgewick - buys Silver
Squire Sedgewick - gains Silver
Squire Sedgewick - shuffles deck
Squire Sedgewick - draws Silver, Copper, Estate, Estate, Copper
 
---------- WNxTyr4el: turn 2 ----------
WNxTyr4el - plays 3 Copper, 1 Silver
WNxTyr4el - buys Silver
WNxTyr4el - gains Silver
WNxTyr4el - shuffles deck
WNxTyr4el - draws Copper, Copper, Silver, Copper, Copper
 
---------- Squire Sedgewick: turn 3 ----------
Squire Sedgewick - plays 2 Copper, 1 Silver
Squire Sedgewick - buys Silver
Squire Sedgewick - gains Silver
Squire Sedgewick - draws Estate, Copper, Copper, Copper, Copper
 
---------- WNxTyr4el: turn 3 ----------
WNxTyr4el - plays 4 Copper, 1 Silver
WNxTyr4el - buys Gold
WNxTyr4el - gains Gold
WNxTyr4el - draws Estate, Silver, Copper, Silver, Silver
 
---------- Squire Sedgewick: turn 4 ----------
Squire Sedgewick - plays 4 Copper
Squire Sedgewick - buys Silver
Squire Sedgewick - gains Silver
Squire Sedgewick - draws Silver, Copper
Squire Sedgewick - shuffles deck
Squire Sedgewick - draws Estate, Copper, Silver
 
---------- WNxTyr4el: turn 4 ----------
WNxTyr4el - plays 3 Silver, 1 Copper
WNxTyr4el - buys Gold
WNxTyr4el - gains Gold
WNxTyr4el - draws Estate, Estate
WNxTyr4el - shuffles deck
WNxTyr4el - draws Copper, Silver, Gold
 
---------- Squire Sedgewick: turn 5 ----------
Squire Sedgewick - plays 2 Silver, 2 Copper
Squire Sedgewick - buys Gold
Squire Sedgewick - gains Gold
Squire Sedgewick - draws Copper, Estate, Copper, Copper, Copper
 
---------- WNxTyr4el: turn 5 ----------
WNxTyr4el - plays 1 Copper, 1 Silver, 1 Gold
WNxTyr4el - buys Laboratory
WNxTyr4el - gains Laboratory
WNxTyr4el - draws Silver, Estate, Silver, Silver, Copper
 
---------- Squire Sedgewick: turn 6 ----------
Squire Sedgewick - plays 4 Copper
Squire Sedgewick - buys Silver
Squire Sedgewick - gains Silver
Squire Sedgewick - draws Copper, Silver, Silver, Estate
Squire Sedgewick - shuffles deck
Squire Sedgewick - draws Silver
 
---------- WNxTyr4el: turn 6 ----------
WNxTyr4el - plays 3 Silver, 1 Copper
WNxTyr4el - buys Smithy
WNxTyr4el - gains Smithy
WNxTyr4el - draws Copper, Gold, Copper, Copper
WNxTyr4el - shuffles deck
WNxTyr4el - draws Silver
 
---------- Squire Sedgewick: turn 7 ----------
Squire Sedgewick - plays 3 Silver, 1 Copper
Squire Sedgewick - buys Gold
Squire Sedgewick - gains Gold
Squire Sedgewick - draws Silver, Silver, Copper, Estate, Gold
 
---------- WNxTyr4el: turn 7 ----------
WNxTyr4el - plays 3 Copper, 1 Gold, 1 Silver
WNxTyr4el - buys Province
WNxTyr4el - gains Province
WNxTyr4el - draws Estate, Gold, Silver, Silver, Silver
 
---------- Squire Sedgewick: turn 8 ----------
Squire Sedgewick - plays 2 Silver, 1 Copper, 1 Gold
Squire Sedgewick - buys Province
Squire Sedgewick - gains Province
Squire Sedgewick - draws Copper, Estate, Copper, Copper, Copper
 
---------- WNxTyr4el: turn 8 ----------
WNxTyr4el - plays 3 Silver, 1 Gold
WNxTyr4el - buys Province
WNxTyr4el - gains Province
WNxTyr4el - draws Smithy, Estate, Laboratory, Copper, Estate
 
---------- Squire Sedgewick: turn 9 ----------
Squire Sedgewick - plays 4 Copper
Squire Sedgewick - buys Silver
Squire Sedgewick - gains Silver
Squire Sedgewick - draws Copper
Squire Sedgewick - shuffles deck
Squire Sedgewick - draws Copper, Silver, Copper, Silver
 
---------- WNxTyr4el: turn 9 ----------
WNxTyr4el - plays Laboratory
WNxTyr4el - draws Copper
WNxTyr4el - shuffles deck
WNxTyr4el - draws Province
WNxTyr4el - plays Smithy
WNxTyr4el - draws Province, Copper, Silver
WNxTyr4el - plays 3 Copper, 1 Silver
WNxTyr4el - buys Laboratory
WNxTyr4el - gains Laboratory
WNxTyr4el - draws Gold, Estate, Gold, Copper, Silver
 
---------- Squire Sedgewick: turn 10 ----------
Squire Sedgewick - plays 3 Copper, 2 Silver
Squire Sedgewick - buys Adventurer
Squire Sedgewick - gains Adventurer
Squire Sedgewick - draws Estate, Gold, Silver, Copper, Silver
 
---------- WNxTyr4el: turn 10 ----------
WNxTyr4el - plays 2 Gold, 1 Copper, 1 Silver
WNxTyr4el - buys Province
WNxTyr4el - gains Province
WNxTyr4el - draws Copper, Silver, Silver
WNxTyr4el - shuffles deck
WNxTyr4el - draws Copper, Province
 
---------- Squire Sedgewick: turn 11 ----------
Squire Sedgewick - plays 2 Silver, 1 Gold, 1 Copper
Squire Sedgewick - buys Province
Squire Sedgewick - gains Province
Squire Sedgewick - draws Copper, Estate, Silver, Copper, Silver
 
---------- WNxTyr4el: turn 11 ----------
WNxTyr4el - plays 2 Copper, 2 Silver
WNxTyr4el - buys Duchy
WNxTyr4el - gains Duchy
WNxTyr4el - draws Silver, Silver, Copper, Smithy, Gold
 
---------- Squire Sedgewick: turn 12 ----------
Squire Sedgewick - plays 2 Copper, 2 Silver
Squire Sedgewick - buys Duchy
Squire Sedgewick - gains Duchy
Squire Sedgewick - draws Province, Estate, Copper, Gold
Squire Sedgewick - shuffles deck
Squire Sedgewick - draws Silver
 
---------- WNxTyr4el: turn 12 ----------
WNxTyr4el - plays Smithy
WNxTyr4el - draws Province, Copper, Estate
WNxTyr4el - plays 2 Silver, 2 Copper, 1 Gold
WNxTyr4el - buys Province
WNxTyr4el - gains Province
WNxTyr4el - draws Estate, Estate, Province, Gold, Copper
 
---------- Squire Sedgewick: turn 13 ----------
Squire Sedgewick - plays 1 Copper, 1 Gold, 1 Silver
Squire Sedgewick - buys Duchy
Squire Sedgewick - gains Duchy
Squire Sedgewick - draws Copper, Copper, Province, Estate, Copper
 
---------- WNxTyr4el: turn 13 ----------
WNxTyr4el - plays 1 Gold, 1 Copper
WNxTyr4el - buys Smithy
WNxTyr4el - gains Smithy
WNxTyr4el - draws Laboratory, Laboratory
WNxTyr4el - shuffles deck
WNxTyr4el - draws Copper, Estate, Gold
 
---------- Squire Sedgewick: turn 14 ----------
Squire Sedgewick - plays 3 Copper
Squire Sedgewick - buys Silver
Squire Sedgewick - gains Silver
Squire Sedgewick - draws Adventurer, Silver, Copper, Duchy, Copper
 
---------- WNxTyr4el: turn 14 ----------
WNxTyr4el - plays Laboratory
WNxTyr4el - draws Copper, Silver
WNxTyr4el - plays Laboratory
WNxTyr4el - draws Estate, Silver
WNxTyr4el - plays 2 Copper, 2 Silver, 1 Gold
WNxTyr4el - buys Province
WNxTyr4el - gains Province
WNxTyr4el - draws Estate, Province, Smithy, Silver, Silver
 
---------- Squire Sedgewick: turn 15 ----------
Squire Sedgewick - plays Adventurer
Squire Sedgewick - reveals Silver, Gold
Squire Sedgewick - places cards in hand:  Silver, Gold
Squire Sedgewick - plays 2 Silver, 2 Copper, 1 Gold
Squire Sedgewick - buys Duchy
Squire Sedgewick - gains Duchy
Squire Sedgewick - draws Estate, Silver, Silver, Copper, Silver
 
---------- WNxTyr4el: turn 15 ----------
WNxTyr4el - plays Smithy
WNxTyr4el - draws Province, Duchy, Province
WNxTyr4el - plays 2 Silver
WNxTyr4el - buys Throne Room
WNxTyr4el - gains Throne Room
WNxTyr4el - draws Gold, Copper, Copper, Province, Smithy
 
---------- Squire Sedgewick: turn 16 ----------
Squire Sedgewick - plays 3 Silver, 1 Copper
Squire Sedgewick - buys Duchy
Squire Sedgewick - gains Duchy
Squire Sedgewick - shuffles deck
Squire Sedgewick - draws Silver, Estate, Duchy, Duchy, Copper
 
---------- WNxTyr4el: turn 16 ----------
WNxTyr4el - plays Smithy
WNxTyr4el - draws Copper
WNxTyr4el - shuffles deck
WNxTyr4el - draws Silver, Gold
WNxTyr4el - plays 3 Copper, 2 Gold, 1 Silver
WNxTyr4el - buys Province
WNxTyr4el - gains Province
WNxTyr4el - draws Copper, Province, Throne Room, Province, Province
 
------------ Game Over ------------
WNxTyr4el - cards: 2 Smithy, 2 Laboratory, 1 Throne Room, 5 Copper, 4 Silver, 2 Gold, 6 Province, 3 Estate, 1 Duchy
WNxTyr4el - total victory points: 42
WNxTyr4el - turns: 16
 
Squire Sedgewick - cards: 1 Adventurer, 7 Silver, 7 Copper, 2 Gold, 4 Duchy, 3 Estate, 2 Province
Squire Sedgewick - total victory points: 27
Squire Sedgewick - turns: 16
 
1st place: WNxTyr4el
2nd place: Squire Sedgewick

[2.71828.....]

---------- WNxTyr4el: turn 1 ----------
WNxTyr4el - plays 2 Copper, 1 Silver
WNxTyr4el - buys Silver
WNxTyr4el - gains Silver
WNxTyr4el - draws Copper, Silver, Copper, Estate, Copper

The first way to improve your game: DONT USE ZAPS!

I see here that you start with two silvers+5 coppers+3 estates.  Of course you will win this game.  Now, if you are just trying to get through adventures, zaps are totally acceptable.  However, if you are trying to improve your play, it is best to use what you should have: 7 coppers 3 estates.  (if you have to zap curses into estates that is fine).  I understand that it just feels impossible to beat the adventure without zaps, especially when the computer gets an advantage with the starting hand.  What I would say to that is the adventures are adventures.  Dominion is Dominion.  If you want to improve your game the best way is probably not the adventures, but to play real players.  Go online and play multiplayer.  If you want to beat adventures, do that, use your zaps, and win.  But it will not improve your dominion skills because you can do impossible things.  (like buy gold t3 and t4)

Actual game commentary:  you want an engine with this board.  What that means is you want bridge as early as possible.  You want laboratory for draw.  You should be careful about buying too many bridges and smithies because they are both terminals.  If you play a bridge and have only 5 coin or something, a good purchase would be smithy/village over gold.  You also probably want trading post for the trashing.  Cards you can ignore: cellar, moat, saboteur, adventurer.  Cards to focus on: Lab, throne room, bridge. 

[WNxTyr4el]

---------- WNxTyr4el: turn 1 ----------
WNxTyr4el - plays 2 Copper, 1 Silver
WNxTyr4el - buys Silver
WNxTyr4el - gains Silver
WNxTyr4el - draws Copper, Silver, Copper, Estate, Copper

The first way to improve your game: DONT USE ZAPS!

I see here that you start with two silvers+5 coppers+3 estates.  Of course you will win this game.  Now, if you are just trying to get through adventures, zaps are totally acceptable.  However, if you are trying to improve your play, it is best to use what you should have: 7 coppers 3 estates.  (if you have to zap curses into estates that is fine).  I understand that it just feels impossible to beat the adventure without zaps, especially when the computer gets an advantage with the starting hand.  What I would say to that is the adventures are adventures.  Dominion is Dominion.  If you want to improve your game the best way is probably not the adventures, but to play real players.  Go online and play multiplayer.  If you want to beat adventures, do that, use your zaps, and win.  But it will not improve your dominion skills because you can do impossible things.  (like buy gold t3 and t4)

Actual game commentary:  you want an engine with this board.  What that means is you want bridge as early as possible.  You want laboratory for draw.  You should be careful about buying too many bridges and smithies because they are both terminals.  If you play a bridge and have only 5 coin or something, a good purchase would be smithy/village over gold.  You also probably want trading post for the trashing.  Cards you can ignore: cellar, moat, saboteur, adventurer.  Cards to focus on: Lab, throne room, bridge.

Yeah that's a good point.  This was just a quick game when I got into work this morning .  I'll post up a live game against someone probably sometime today or tonight.  Would bots even be an acceptable way of improving?  Or is that just too similar to the adventures?  My schedule doesn't allow me much play time so bots and the adventures are best for now.  But I definitely see your point. 

I didn't even notice the bridges in this.  I just wanted to end it as quick as possible but are you saying that when bridge is up, to take that with a "village" or Throne Room?

[Destierro]

One of the best ways to improve your game is to play against other people. The Goko AI is subpar at best, and on the more complex boards will often lose simply because some cards are nigh-impossible to simulate. Playing against people helps in many different ways. It raises the bar, so you're no longer trying to beat a rote AI that will do the same thing every game, but you have to compete with a much better opponent. It forces you to challenge yourself, setting the bar much higher than you would get with the computer.

On your gameplay, I would suggest getting a Trading Post early on, and going for some sort of Throne Room / Bridge engine with Laboratory and Village/Smithy for draw. Possibly throw a Saboteur in the mix. On turn 15 you bought a Throne Room, an Estate would have been better as the game was almost over. If you're going for a Smithy BM strategy, then Laboratory is better suited as a Silver.

I'm not sure if there is an expand option, but you can forward a link from Goko, where it saves all the logs. (http://i.imgur.com/dlwjiAZ.png)

Welcome to Dominion! I hope you enjoy the game as much as we all do!

[2.71828.....]

Would bots even be an acceptable way of improving? 

I would say bots are an acceptable way of improving certain aspects of your game.  For example, if there is a certain combo you want to practice, you might play that combo a bunch against a bot.  In the long run, as Destierro mentions, bots are not an adequate replacement for people.  Bots may be better than people at first though, because they have one thing going for them:  They pick a strategy and stick with it (they are programmed to).  Young players often "strategy jump" and just buy cards that look cool without a specific end in mind.  In that case, bots might provide better competition.

[WNxTyr4el]

Would bots even be an acceptable way of improving? 

I would say bots are an acceptable way of improving certain aspects of your game.  For example, if there is a certain combo you want to practice, you might play that combo a bunch against a bot.  In the long run, as Destierro mentions, bots are not an adequate replacement for people.  Bots may be better than people at first though, because they have one thing going for them:  They pick a strategy and stick with it (they are programmed to).  Young players often "strategy jump" and just buy cards that look cool without a specific end in mind.  In that case, bots might provide better competition.

Yeah I definitely think I'm at least better than a "young player."  I've done enough research to know what some certain good cards are, what to play when and what helps certain types of strategies.  So I do sort of know what is good and what is not.  It's really the implementation of that and learning ALL the different possibilities with what I could hope to learn.  I'm definitely going to play against a real player though.  I at least have a friend who is also new I can test out new strategies on lol.  He isn't playing as much as I am so maybe I can teach him a thing or two

One of the best ways to improve your game is to play against other people. The Goko AI is subpar at best, and on the more complex boards will often lose simply because some cards are nigh-impossible to simulate. Playing against people helps in many different ways. It raises the bar, so you're no longer trying to beat a rote AI that will do the same thing every game, but you have to compete with a much better opponent. It forces you to challenge yourself, setting the bar much higher than you would get with the computer.

On your gameplay, I would suggest getting a Trading Post early on, and going for some sort of Throne Room / Bridge engine with Laboratory and Village/Smithy for draw. Possibly throw a Saboteur in the mix. On turn 15 you bought a Throne Room, an Estate would have been better as the game was almost over. If you're going for a Smithy BM strategy, then Laboratory is better suited as a Silver.

I'm not sure if there is an expand option, but you can forward a link from Goko, where it saves all the logs. (http://i.imgur.com/dlwjiAZ.png)

Welcome to Dominion! I hope you enjoy the game as much as we all do!

Oh okay, so I can forward the link, awesome!  I bought the Throne Room because even though I knew the game was ending soon I was going to try to end it sooner lol.  Though, I guess it was a bad pick and could have just picked an Estate like you recommended lol.

What does BM stand for though?  I keep reading it in articles.  Also, is Saboteur a good card?  I was reading on the main website that it's kind of, mostly situational but mostly a bad attack card if not the worst.  I'm taking it with a grain of salt and will learn to use it my own way but can't help but not ignore that bit of info

[Destierro]

The best part of this website is its guides and articles! Read these, the top ones will be most pertinent. http://dominionstrategy.com/category/general-strategy/articles/ They outline general strategies, and common dominion lingo. BM is short for Big Money, a strategy in which the player buys very few actions, generally one or two, and only treasure and victory cards. It is usually a strategy that works on very "weak" boards, or where there are lots of attacks that ruin decks.

If you ever are wondering about a particular card, chances are someone has already written a comprehensive guide on it.

[WNxTyr4el]

The best part of this website is its guides and articles! Read these, the top ones will be most pertinent. http://dominionstrategy.com/category/general-strategy/articles/ They outline general strategies, and common dominion lingo. BM is short for Big Money, a strategy in which the player buys very few actions, generally one or two, and only treasure and victory cards. It is usually a strategy that works on very "weak" boards, or where there are lots of attacks that ruin decks.

If you ever are wondering about a particular card, chances are someone has already written a comprehensive guide on it.

I've already read the card lists and the links for base and Intrigue along with each available linked card lol.  Really good info on the individual card articles.

[Destierro]

Also, if you learn better from watching someone else, there are several channels on youtube dedicated to dominion. To name a few:

https://www.youtube.com/user/WanderingWinder
https://www.youtube.com/user/AdamHorton01
https://www.youtube.com/user/davqvist
https://www.youtube.com/user/werothegreat

[WNxTyr4el]

Also, if you learn better from watching someone else, there are several channels on youtube dedicated to dominion. To name a few:

https://www.youtube.com/user/WanderingWinder
https://www.youtube.com/user/AdamHorton01
https://www.youtube.com/user/davqvist
https://www.youtube.com/user/werothegreat

+1 for those, thanks!  Those will help!  Now to just find the time to watch them lol.

[WNxTyr4el]

Here's one I just played.  Base set only.  I think the guy was pretty new but I feel I did pretty well.  Any suggestions for improvement?

http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20140113/log.516d5351e4b082c74d7ba2e5.1389622385650.txt

[shark_bait]

Despite your opponent having no real cohesive strategy you manage to win albeit only by 10 points.  In a 29 Turn game where your opponent does nothing to attack you that is too long of a game.  In this game I would recommend going for Workshop/Gardens.  This strategy focuses on emptying 3-piles (Gardens, Workshop and Estate).  It is a bit more immune to Cursing because extra cards make Gardens worth more and you can always gain cards up to $4 with Workshop.  But Workshop/Gardens aside, I'll next comment on your play assuming that rush strategy is not available.

Analyzing the Board:

Chapel is present - this makes engine building much much more viable

Attacks - Witch is the only attack.  Cursing is usually a good way to hinder your opponent.  Additionally, Witch is the only form of net hand-size increase.

Woodcutter is present for the plus buy.

Workshop allows for gaining of Villages and Throne Rooms.

Mine can upgrade Silver's into Gold for more high quality treasure. 

This is a really tough engine to run effectively.  You'd need to trash your entire starting deck and then build it up again while being Cursed.  Your payload has to come from Gold/Silver as no action cards can effectively do this.  There is also no sifting cards like Cellar making this deck choke harder when it picks up some victory.  All that being said, I think Witch/Big Money is the way to go.

So how to play Witch/BM?  Open Silver/Silver.  I'd recommend getting 2-3 Witches and then Silver at $3/4 and Gold at $6/7.  So for your gameplay.

Turn 3 - This should be Silver and not Village.  You will not have enough action density to require needing a Village.

Turn 4 - This should be a Witch.  The Gold is nice but you want to start Cursing as soon as possible.  In games with Cursing cards priced at $5 it is common to have to purchase them with $6 which is almost always the correct play.

Turn 5 - Another Witch here.  Cursing is like old chicago voting.  You want to do it early and often.

Turn 9 - Another Silver you want money not action density.

Turn 10 - You don't have enough money to start greening.  You have 3 Gold and 1 Silver.  If you start greening here you will never empty the Province pile especially with your opponent going for a Gardens based strategy.

I'm gonna stop there but I think you'll get the idea.  Your strategy is not focused.  You get some village that are not needed.  You decide to go for Gardens when your deck is not equipped for doing well in a Gardens game.  You do not prepare your deck (in terms of money) for purchasing Provinces.  That's why the game went 29 turns.  You started greening really really early for what your deck was capable of. 

tl.dr.  If you want a Garden based strategy, purchase about 3 Workshop and then pile-drive the Garden and Estate piles followed by the remaining Workshop.

If you want a Big Money strategy, purchase 2-3 Witches and all Silver/Gold.

Hope that helps.

[WNxTyr4el]

That did help actually.  Quite a bit.  I was trying to go for BM but also Gardens, but I guess from reading your post that those two strategies don't work well together.  I should have picked one or the other.

So for BM, had he gone curses, would I have ignored the curses and just kept going for money?  Or would I throw in a few Chapels to trash the curses, estates and coppers?

I read the engine article, but I'm still confused as to how they really work.  Anyone have a different explanation or a "simpler" explanation?

[DG]

In this game you and your opponent overcomplicated some basic strategies. The first strategy is to play with witches and treasure, nothing else, aiming to start buying provinces but finish with gardens and duchies. If you buy villages and throne rooms then there isn't enough treasure in the deck to sustain it once you compete for green cards. The second strategy is to play with workshops only, aiming to gain gardens and win quickly on garden points. You can try using woodcutters instead of workshops but it just isn't as strong.

Another strategy is to use a chapel to strip down the deck early and that becomes much more complicated when you restock the deck. The chapel will work well against witches but could be too slow against workshop/gardens.

[WNxTyr4el]

In this game you and your opponent overcomplicated some basic strategies. The first strategy is to play with witches and treasure, nothing else, aiming to start buying provinces but finish with gardens and duchies. If you buy villages and throne rooms then there isn't enough treasure in the deck to sustain it once you compete for green cards. The second strategy is to play with workshops only, aiming to gain gardens and win quickly on garden points. You can try using woodcutters instead of workshops but it just isn't as strong.

Another strategy is to use a chapel to strip down the deck early and that becomes much more complicated when you restock the deck. The chapel will work well against witches but could be too slow against workshop/gardens.

So I should have just gone with Witches and money (if we're going by my first few buys)?

[shark_bait]

I'm inclined to say skip chapel and focus on Witches/Money.  Others may disagree with my assessment and I'd love to hear opposing views.  Chapel is an interesting thing here.  Chapel/BM (where you trash your starting cards and then play BM) is extremely bad.  Like really bad.  You end of being unable effectively green due to having such low money density.  Opening Chapel/Silver also decreases your probability of hitting $5 for a Witch on turns 3 and 4.  Even if you just use the Chapel to trash Estates and Curses you have to collide them you may wish that you had played a Witch Instead.  The thing about going Silver/Silver into Witch is that you will both Curse you opponent at a faster rate and have a greater money density mid/late game which transitions into better ability to handle victory cards.  This is especially true for Duchy Dancing (where players purposefully ignore the penultimate province instead opting to buy Duchies).

I don't have time to comment on Engines at the moment.  Base set engines are in general weaker than with expansions and more challenging to set up.

[WNxTyr4el]

I'm inclined to say skip chapel and focus on Witches/Money.  Others may disagree with my assessment and I'd love to hear opposing views.  Chapel is an interesting thing here.  Chapel/BM (where you trash your starting cards and then play BM) is extremely bad.  Like really bad.  You end of being unable effectively green due to having such low money density.  Opening Chapel/Silver also decreases your probability of hitting $5 for a Witch on turns 3 and 4.  Even if you just use the Chapel to trash Estates and Curses you have to collide them you may wish that you had played a Witch Instead.  The thing about going Silver/Silver into Witch is that you will both Curse you opponent at a faster rate and have a greater money density mid/late game which transitions into better ability to handle victory cards.  This is especially true for Duchy Dancing (where players purposefully ignore the penultimate province instead opting to buy Duchies).

I don't have time to comment on Engines at the moment.  Base set engines are in general weaker than with expansions and more challenging to set up.

And as that was solely base set, the engines would have been harder and thus I probably didn't recognize them lol.  But that's some good advice.  Next time if there's a witch up I'll try going for Witch/BM

[jsh357]

Re: BM/Gardens
Just generally speaking, a Big Money strategy is aiming to win the game on an average or low amount of turns (usually only has one buy, so that means buying big cards like Provinces) OR at least wants to mirror the opponent in to a Duchy war when the Provinces are low.

However, a Gardens player usually benefits from games running longer and wants cards that gain extra cards.  For BM, Gardens is usually better than Estate, so it's not a bad late game (as in 3 or fewer Provinces left) buy at $4, but other than that you probably want to stick to the Big Money algorithm.

[WNxTyr4el]

Re: BM/Gardens
Just generally speaking, a Big Money strategy is aiming to win the game on an average or low amount of turns (usually only has one buy, so that means buying big cards like Provinces) OR at least wants to mirror the opponent in to a Duchy war when the Provinces are low.

However, a Gardens player usually benefits from games running longer and wants cards that gain extra cards.  For BM, Gardens is usually better than Estate, so it's not a bad late game (as in 3 or fewer Provinces left) buy at $4, but other than that you probably want to stick to the Big Money algorithm.

Ah okay.  So no Witches then if I'm going Gardens?  But if no Gardens then just Witch/BM?  Or are you saying for this game you suggest that I had gone with Gardens/BM?

[shark_bait]

With Workshop:

Workshop/Gardens is superior to Witch/BM

Without Workshop:

Witch/BM is superior to any Garden based strategy (in set given)

However, without Workshop, Gardens are still viable to gain when you are at the point where you would buy Duchies (approximately 4 Provinces gone) and you get a hand of $4. You don't want to be buying Gardens too early because most often you would rather that Garden be a Silver.

[WNxTyr4el]

With Workshop:

Workshop/Gardens is superior to Witch/BM

Without Workshop:

Witch/BM is superior to any Garden based strategy (in set given)

However, without Workshop, Gardens are still viable to gain when you are at the point where you would buy Duchies (approximately 4 Provinces gone) and you get a hand of $4. You don't want to be buying Gardens too early because most often you would rather that Garden be a Silver.

Got it!  Thanks!  My next game will have to be one I make with Base+Intrigue.  Prosperity is next for me but that's still some time away I think.  Unless I just really crave it lol.

[WNxTyr4el]

One more before I head off to bed.  Didn't really know which cards to pick for this engine (Bridge Mega-Turn?) but here it is:

http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20140113/log.516f1b58e4b082c74d7dd36d.1389670249594.txt

[KingZog3]

One more before I head off to bed.  Didn't really know which cards to pick for this engine (Bridge Mega-Turn?) but here it is:

http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20140113/log.516f1b58e4b082c74d7dd36d.1389670249594.txt

It may not be a mega turn (bridge doesn't always have to be mega) but yes, bridge for sure, especially because there is throne room. Firstly, that Sivler turn 1 should have been Steward. You want to trash fast, and use bridge for money. So I might open Bridge+Steward.  Lots of Labs for sure, and maybe 1-2 Festivals. A lot of Throne rooms too, and a lot of your actions will come from Throne a Throne a Lab a something else. That's why you only need maybe 1-2 Festivals. You should be buying lots of cards a turn because of Bridges, and at least a couple turn of double or triple Provinces.

[2.71828.....]

One more before I head off to bed.  Didn't really know which cards to pick for this engine (Bridge Mega-Turn?) but here it is:

http://dominionlogs.goko.com//20140113/log.516f1b58e4b082c74d7dd36d.1389670249594.txt

you mention a bridge mega-turn, which is a great thought for these cards.  However, to have that turn, you need to draw all those bridges into your hand AND have the actions to play them. 

As KingZog mentions, step 1 is trashing.  Never ignore trashing.  steward/silver or steward/bridge are both better options because you will likely be able to trash on either t3 or t4.  I would recommend steward/bridge here, and even if the terminals collide, you still want to trash instead of buying a different card.  The goal is to play bridge(s) every hand.  You don't do that by buying a bunch of bridges, but by trashing into a small deck so that you can play that single bridge every time, and eventually (once you get to step 3) play multiple bridges.

Step 2 is draw.  And for that you need laboratory.  t3 should have been a lab and not a throne room.  Laboratories should be the first pile to be emptied this game.  You want to play bridge as much as possible.  That does not mean buy a bunch of bridges, it means draw your whole deck into your hand.  So you need +cards.  You need laboratory.  (and you need to trash)

Step 3 is actions.  And for that you need a combo of villages and throne rooms.  I say village and throne room because those are components that you can most easily purchase together after playing a bridge.  t4 you could have bought village AND throne room.  Once your draw is firmly established you might get a festival, but festival is a distraction in this game.  Bridge is your +buy and it is better for buying power (money-wise) than festival and is what you really should be buying.

hope that helps a bit

[KingZog3]

I missed Village. Yeah in that case go with what 2.71828 said, and use Village not Festival.