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[AndrewisFTTW]

Thanks for the interesting first game even if I was only in it briefly! There's clearly a lot more to this game that I have to learn to keep up with you guys!

[yuma]

BOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

HISSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!

BOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

HISSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!

[yuma]

Well played shraeye and Axxle... although I pretty much stopped watching after I was lynched. By far the most frustrating game I have ever played. And for everyone wondering... frustration is not a scumtell for me... it is a losing (mostly a losing badly) tell...

[Robz888]

Well played shraeye and Axxle... although I pretty much stopped watching after I was lynched. By far the most frustrating game I have ever played. And for everyone wondering... frustration is not a scumtell for me... it is a losing (mostly a losing badly) tell...

I agree, but I think what we were thinking was, you were only losing if you were scum, which is why your frustration seemed scummy.

[Robz888]

I do think raerae getting lynched was almost entirely bad luck for you. Usually, she would have been the person in LEAST danger of being lynched, after getting a wagon like that.

Shraeye really locked on to what was going on between the two of you, and I had my "Scum want early suspicion!" theory going that made me NOT want to spare that initial person like we usually do.

I think you guys--the scum team--should have worked harded to push my Scott lynch through when I proposed it.

[yuma]

Well played shraeye and Axxle... although I pretty much stopped watching after I was lynched. By far the most frustrating game I have ever played. And for everyone wondering... frustration is not a scumtell for me... it is a losing (mostly a losing badly) tell...

I agree, but I think what we were thinking was, you were only losing if you were scum, which is why your frustration seemed scummy.

Hmmm probably.... although I think I would have responded exactly the same to PPS's "caught you" scheme. I find those completely and totally ridiculous along with any strategy that calls for acting scummy to get someone to investigate you. That sort of play is just bad and if I were town in this game I would have reacted exactly the same and that was where my frustration was stemming from more than anything else.

[Robz888]

Oh, I have a question! Axxle: Why did you point out Eevee's breadcrumb? For the town cred? That might have gone unnoticed.

[ashersky]

I've actually gone back and forth on the official MVP winner, actually.  I mean, clearly it was shraeye through like D3.

But then a few things happened.  Axxle kept sticking around against all odds, for one.  I disagree with shraeye's choice to doctor away from the claimed Cop.  That would have been the game-changer right there.  And shraeye's tunnel (on scum, of course) can turn town off, which is detrimental.

Robz was a great force in the game, for sure.  He also made some errors on reads, but that's partly what happens when you get ICed.

In the end though, those first few days were the key.  The MVP is shraeye.  Axxle is the runner-up.

[Axxle]

Oh, I have a question! Axxle: Why did you point out Eevee's breadcrumb? For the town cred? That might have gone unnoticed.

For the town cred. And it worked for a while I think. I'm pretty sure it was in the back of PPS and mailmi's minds.

[yuma]

I do think raerae getting lynched was almost entirely bad luck for you. Usually, she would have been the person in LEAST danger of being lynched, after getting a wagon like that.

Shraeye really locked on to what was going on between the two of you, and I had my "Scum want early suspicion!" theory going that made me NOT want to spare that initial person like we usually do.

I think you guys--the scum team--should have worked harded to push my Scott lynch through when I proposed it.

Agreed. It was bad luck and also just poor play by us. But more importantly no one was around! People weren't around for the last few days at all for me to even try and manipulate them. They just kind of plopped their vote down cause it was convenient.

[Robz888]

Well played shraeye and Axxle... although I pretty much stopped watching after I was lynched. By far the most frustrating game I have ever played. And for everyone wondering... frustration is not a scumtell for me... it is a losing (mostly a losing badly) tell...

I agree, but I think what we were thinking was, you were only losing if you were scum, which is why your frustration seemed scummy.

Hmmm probably.... although I think I would have responded exactly the same to PPS's "caught you" scheme. I find those completely and totally ridiculous along with any strategy that calls for acting scummy to get someone to investigate you. That sort of play is just bad and if I were town in this game I would have reacted exactly the same and that was where my frustration was stemming from more than anything else.

Yeah, it was more your "checked-out" frustration at the very end hat made me really sure we had you. By then it didn't matter much.

I also thought PPS's stuff was ridiculous and was an attempt by your last partner to distance, wrong about that unfortunately.

[yuma]

O well though, just glad it is finally over so people can go sign up for other games that are about to start so I can move closer to getting another chance of playing well.

[ashersky]

As for the set-up, I'm glad folks liked it.  I was worried we wouldn't get to see a lot of interaction given how quickly the scum team disappeared.

I do hope we can get a few more runthroughs of asher9++.  I'd like to see what other set-ups come out of the random rolls, and if anyone can do a better job of working out a massclaim/setup solve than Robz's attempt here.

[Axxle]

As for the set-up, I'm glad folks liked it.  I was worried we wouldn't get to see a lot of interaction given how quickly the scum team disappeared.

I do hope we can get a few more runthroughs of asher9++.  I'd like to see what other set-ups come out of the random rolls, and if anyone can do a better job of working out a massclaim/setup solve than Robz's attempt here.

I initial thought is that it's pretty much unsolvable in most cases. That's probably a good thing.

[ashersky]

As for the set-up, I'm glad folks liked it.  I was worried we wouldn't get to see a lot of interaction given how quickly the scum team disappeared.

I do hope we can get a few more runthroughs of asher9++.  I'd like to see what other set-ups come out of the random rolls, and if anyone can do a better job of working out a massclaim/setup solve than Robz's attempt here.

I initial thought is that it's pretty much unsolvable in most cases. That's probably a good thing.

That was my goal.

It's clearly possible to narrow it down based on scum flips.  But if it was just town flips and/or claims, it's basically impossible (I think).  There are a few particular setups that would be pretty easily solved, but they've have to come up randomly.

[shraeye]

Enjoyed a return to mafia; and I'm super glad that my reads were vindicated and acted on.  I got super worried reading mail-mi's final day posts. and then had a flash of insta-depression when I read that scott was final scum.  But in the end, I feel great, thanks.

[yuma]

Enjoyed a return to mafia; and I'm super glad that my reads were vindicated and acted on.  I got super worried reading mail-mi's final day posts. and then had a flash of insta-depression when I read that scott was final scum.  But in the end, I feel great, thanks.

So.... be honest.... Are you just amazing? Or did you sneak a peak at raerae's mafia quicktopic? 

[shraeye]

haha, no.  I think I had some luck, plus a bug up my ass about the right things at the right time.  I sent ashersky a PM on day1 saying that I thought I had the mafia team called.  At that point it was raerae/axxle/andrew, if I recall correctly.  Then yuma got all waffly-weird on raerae it seemed, and I was convinced that HE must be a partner and that I was wrong in the first guess.

Later, I remembered Axxle, and did some rereading on him, and found more stuff that backed my suspicion.  When I looked back on day1 more fully, I realized that I thought raerae/Andrew was suspicious, and that Andrew/Axxle was suspicious and that Andrew was the link between them.  So I should have forgiven Axxle once Andrew flipped town, but all I remembered in my mind was that I had raerae/axxle/andrew called, and had to replace one of those guys with yuma.  My day1 story made less sense in my head, but I had seen so much scummy from axxle, that I couldn't give up that thread at all.

[yuma]

yeah, you had me in a bad position.

Although I still maintain that it is perfectly normal and fine behavior from town (or someone trying to emulate town) to have a scum read and then disagree with why someone found them scummy... I don't even remember what it was specifically but it was what got you on my back.

Right this was the post:

Playing the why is everyone ganging up on me/tunneling me card is an emotional ploy regardless of alignment.

It isn't always a ploy though. Perhaps people perceive it as such, but it isn't. I can tell you that I am not so full in control of my emotions that I can use them exclusively as "ploys." Sometimes my emotions come out--regardless of alignment--with no ulterior motive other than me being a human.

I do think that people calling out someone as scummy for having emotion is far and away scummier than someone being emotional. It is too hard to tell if emotions are feigned or real in this setting. And far too often I think they are real.

in regard to PPS's post about raerae "playing the victim"

My post had nothing to do with raerae being my partner and more about trying to keep the emotion out of the game (for the sake of the game) as I think when people start to question other people's emotions and call them out as fake or feigned or whatever it gets awkward and uncomfortable and can quickly escalate and is a post that I would have commented on regardless of my alignment or raerae's alignment.

And to have you call me out on it--correctly--but for completely the wrong reasons was extremely, extremely frustrating as all I wanted to do was to diffuse a situation to dispel any hard feelings or negativity in the game in general

[pingpongsam]

Axxle made it as far as he did precisely because his emotions were always in check.

[pingpongsam]

I am surprised my lingering self vote didn't sway anyone back to Axxle. I posit that I was both being punished for bad behavior and remaining firmly suspicious because of emotional ardor.

[Teproc]

I am surprised my lingering self vote didn't sway anyone back to Axxle. I posit that I was both being punished for bad behavior and remaining firmly suspicious because of emotional ardor.

You were acting erratingly. You did that as scum in DoP, and acting erratingly is anti-town. I'm surprised you weren't lynched earlier to be honest

[shraeye]

N2:
Axxle roleblocks Robz888
mail-mi roleblocks noone (deadline missed)
shraeye 1-shot doctors noone (deadline missed)
Axxle nightkills Eevee
Eevee investigates PPS (receieves "Town" result)
ADK inherits "Town Cop" role

I would like to briefly discuss night actions, and deadlines.  I fully disagree with having an action-deadline of 24 hrs, especially if said 24 hrs fall over a weekend.  Such as night 2, starting on Friday at 5pm.  I was on my way back from a conference in Boca, landed Friday evening, in time to pack and go on vacation the very next day.  I PMed ash as soon as I was settled in and had a moment, the first time I had touched internet since before the day had actually ended. 

I don't want special dispensation in these circumstances; I understand that it's good policy to have a single rule in place and enforce it...I think the current rule should be changed.  I just think that if night is 48 hours long, then a submission deadline that is much closer to the regular deadline is best; this is not the first time I've had severe trouble with 24 hr nights.  I'm also disappointed that on the night in question mafia received a reminder to submit night actions (it turns out they had been submitted but missed; still the principle is the same), yet town-folk did not.

[ashersky]

When night begins is a decision the town makes, if ending a day before the deadline.  I try not to have a day end on a weekend, and will adjust as needed where I can.  In this case, town had plenty of time and could have lynched on Monday.  I've had a 24-hour night action submission policy for most of my games, and this is the first time anyone has missed it.  I wasn't going to make an exception mid-game, obviously.

It's a fair complaint that I didn't prod town while I did post in the scum QT.  I generally always do that, though I'm not sure why.  In previous games, I know I've definitely PMed town PRs, too.

[mcmcsalot]

Well played shraeye and Axxle... although I pretty much stopped watching after I was lynched. By far the most frustrating game I have ever played. And for everyone wondering... frustration is not a scumtell for me... it is a losing (mostly a losing badly) tell...

I agree, but I think what we were thinking was, you were only losing if you were scum, which is why your frustration seemed scummy.

Hmmm probably.... although I think I would have responded exactly the same to PPS's "caught you" scheme. I find those completely and totally ridiculous along with any strategy that calls for acting scummy to get someone to investigate you. That sort of play is just bad and if I were town in this game I would have reacted exactly the same and that was where my frustration was stemming from more than anything else.

you mean you like how I reacted and got lynched for it, yea I agree with you yuma!