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[shraeye]

I invite everybody to read Axxle's interactions with the raerae on day1.  There's nothing.  He threatens the fake-hammer for 'reactions', he doubts her claim that Andrew is being coached, says he doesn't want to lynch raerae for being raerae and in the very same post tells me that yuma town-slipped, and then his very next post is his formulaic intent to hammer.

And speaking about that town-slip that Axxle claims yuma made.  So Yuma is the person who Axxle is convinced is town is SOMEHOW still the very same person that Axxle chooses to use his 1-shot cop on to investigate that night, gets town result for, and STILL votes for yuma the next day with talk about "wifoming himself".  That just sounds exactly like a "oh shit, shraeye zinged yuma for half-heartedly bussing raerae day1; I had better vote for yuma if it ever comes up"

It is suspicious as all getup.

[shraeye]

Also, a return to Axxle's "wifom" on yuma.

Axxle, if you shot your power on yuma N1 why are you just now bringing it up? It seemed appropriate at several instances to have already brought up. Namely, D2 despite the Godfather thing. D3 seemed appropriate as well when we were discovering the setup and when I and others posted reads on you indicating scum behavior surrounding yuma.

Indeed, very fishy.  Especially with these 2 early day2 posts by Axxle.

Yuma's got some pretty weak reasons for not being on raerae, but I feel like he'd try a bit harder to find better ones if he was scum.

To those that are surprised by Andrew's death: why?

Yuma's got some pretty weak reasons for not being on raerae, but I feel like he'd try a bit harder to find better ones if he was scum.

Eh. i should stop Wifoming myself.

Vote: Yuma

I forgot I made that second one. 'Wifoming' is the wrong word but I was hinting that I got a town result.

PEdit: But you're not me though.

PEdit2: Because it's useless info? I guess percentage wise he becomes less likely to be scum but it's not impossible.

If I was scum I would've fakeclaimed right away. There'd be no consequence.

How in the flippin' way does anybody use the phrase "I should stop wifoming myself" to hint that there was a town result on Yuma?  Real cops make hints like eevee did for Robz, so that if the cop dies, then the result is manifestly clear.  Not some
"ooooh, yuma's got weak reasoning, but maybe scum-yuma would have more solid arguments...I don't knoooow...wifoooom...." 
followed by
"oh, I meant that I had a town result on yuma, that's why I said 'wifom'"

[pingpongsam]

Ok, so we lynch you, and if there are no kills tonight, everybody is allowed to be ultra suspicious of me.  In this case, there would still be able to lynch you, me, AND PPS.  So everybody is happy.  Everybody except you, yuma, and raerae.

Good point. I know Axxle reads scummy, I don't need to re-read him. I feel shraeye is worth re-reading again before I resume voting Axxle.

[pingpongsam]

So I re-read shraeye and the only manifestly scumym thing about his play is how eerily on-point it is. Basically, in order to be playing so on-point he has foreknowledge of who is and is not scum. That said, when I've played this way I have leveraged the fact that my play was on point to convince people to vote my direction. IMO, shraeye's D3-D4 play is quite towny in that he remains within the meta of pressing for the vote he believes in and not being manipulative about getting others to follow it, just outspoken.

I think Axxle made a fine point about shraeye's possible fake-claim to be a doctor since a forfeited nightkill would garner town status. However, since we can either direct the doctor to a person or to not fire at all or maybe get him to tell us whether he still has a shot in twilight, well, I think we can disarm that particular threat.

Axxle's claim is especially scummy as is his D1-D3 play. Some of his behavior D4 appears towny I must say, though.

[Robz888]

I am about half way through my re-read. The sad reality is that any of you--other than mail-mi--could be scum.

In an odd sort of way, I am thankful that mail-mi RBed shraeye on Night 1, even though that was not a very good choice I think. It has to be extremely acquiting--there is no way yuma does the kill instead of his partner, and I think the odds of mail-mi being roleblocked by scum on Night 1 are very low.

Just a clarification: Ashersky: A scum Roleblocker can roleblock AND shoot, even if he is not the only living member of his team, right? In some setups, the scum Roleblocker is only allowed to do both if all his partners are dead.

[Robz888]

The point people are making that shraeye's reads actually too good that they smack of scum knowledge is totally a fair point. And if not for mail-mi's RBing, it might indeed tip me in that direction.

But, since we have mail-mi RBing him, I have to think he's town.

[ashersky]

A mafia roleblocker may perform the factional kill and a roleblock on the same night, any night.

[Axxle]

In an odd sort of way, I am thankful that mail-mi RBed shraeye on Night 1, even though that was not a very good choice I think. It has to be extremely acquiting--there is no way yuma does the kill instead of his partner, and I think the odds of mail-mi being roleblocked by scum on Night 1 are very low.

unvote

[Robz888]

Which brings me to Scott, Axxle, and PPS.

Scott, unfortunately, is going to win if he's scum. Which is terrible. In a lot of ways, he's classically scummy. He's opportunistic. He lurks. His reaction to "random" vote on him Day 1 was TERRIBLE (He OMGUSed me, like newbie scum, sad). But I STILL don't think he's scum. I am going to continue re-reading, so we will see if that changes.

Axxle has done some scummy things, and has generally bee kind of zany. All of shraeye's points on him ring true, especially if I am trusting shraeye.

PPS though... PPS, if you are town, you assisted me in screwing us up BIG TIME. You should have gone to your grave yesterday without another peep. You convinced me--oh, my shame--to refocus on ADK. If we had not done that, ADK would likely have survived the night with a useful result. And we would be winning now. Contrast your behavior with mcmc's. He didn't bother defending himself! He went down, knowing it was for the best. You convinced me to spare you and decreased our win chances significantly, do you realize that?

I'm not trying to like blame you (if you are town), because it was my blunder, too. I'm trying to say that it was a scum tactic.

[Robz888]

I'm going to continue re-reading now. I have to remember that this just a game. I am feeling so terrible. Eevee, ADK, I'm sorry! I hope I don't let us down with my eventual choice! And I know I really blew it with the claiming. I thought that at worst mass claiming would help me understand the setup, I should have realized that was a terrible strategy here. I'm sorry!

[Axxle]

In an odd sort of way, I am thankful that mail-mi RBed shraeye on Night 1, even though that was not a very good choice I think. It has to be extremely acquiting--there is no way yuma does the kill instead of his partner, and I think the odds of mail-mi being roleblocked by scum on Night 1 are very low.

unvote

Wait, I guess there's a chance mailmi was roleblocked?

[Robz888]

In an odd sort of way, I am thankful that mail-mi RBed shraeye on Night 1, even though that was not a very good choice I think. It has to be extremely acquiting--there is no way yuma does the kill instead of his partner, and I think the odds of mail-mi being roleblocked by scum on Night 1 are very low.

unvote

Wait, I guess there's a chance mailmi was roleblocked?

But it's such a small chance. Why would they RB mail-mi? Even with hindsight, this seems like a bad idea. No offense mail-mi, but he's not super fearsome, I mean, he even forgot to submit actions one night. On the other two nights, he made a bad choice (although it might end up being really good), and an unbelievably bad choice.

Wouldn't they be roleblocking like Eevee, or me, or something? Of course, we know they didn't block Eevee on Night 1 (since he breadcrumbed investigation of me).

[Axxle]

In an odd sort of way, I am thankful that mail-mi RBed shraeye on Night 1, even though that was not a very good choice I think. It has to be extremely acquiting--there is no way yuma does the kill instead of his partner, and I think the odds of mail-mi being roleblocked by scum on Night 1 are very low.

unvote

Wait, I guess there's a chance mailmi was roleblocked?

But it's such a small chance. Why would they RB mail-mi? Even with hindsight, this seems like a bad idea. No offense mail-mi, but he's not super fearsome, I mean, he even forgot to submit actions one night. On the other two nights, he made a bad choice (although it might end up being really good), and an unbelievably bad choice.

Wouldn't they be roleblocking like Eevee, or me, or something? Of course, we know they didn't block Eevee on Night 1 (since he breadcrumbed investigation of me).

I just reread and I agree there wasn't much reason. Mailmi didn't really hint at having a PR at all, and didn't even really express too much suspicion on shraeye to indicate that he might roleblock him.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.5:

Axxle (1) : shraeye

Not Voting (5):  scott_pilgrim, Robz888, mail-mi, PPS, Axxle

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Day 4 ends on March 25 at 8:00 a.m.

[pingpongsam]

PPS though... PPS, if you are town, you assisted me in screwing us up BIG TIME. You should have gone to your grave yesterday without another peep. You convinced me--oh, my shame--to refocus on ADK. If we had not done that, ADK would likely have survived the night with a useful result. And we would be winning now. Contrast your behavior with mcmc's. He didn't bother defending himself! He went down, knowing it was for the best. You convinced me to spare you and decreased our win chances significantly, do you realize that?

I'm not trying to like blame you (if you are town), because it was my blunder, too. I'm trying to say that it was a scum tactic.

Well, I agree that we got screwed by having our backup cop be forced to claim. But the fact is ADK played quite terribly and appeared to be scumball number 1. So, in that sense ADK screwed us. I contend that mcmc should have fought back and he definitely should have at least made an effort to look outside a PPS lynch and I believe that his final play was equally crappy and so in that sense, mcmc screwed us. Do not forget you were the one certain that mcmc was the final scum. I was just as certain on ADK before he claimed. I am certainty shy at this point. If mcmc had stepped up and fought back we would have maybe lynched me or maybe we would have not lynched me, ADK, or him and thus possibly won the game but certainly be in a different place today. While it was originally spoken with regards to scum, it is equally true for town; you get lynched because you let Town lynch you. Note, ADK didn't get lynched. I have yet to get lynched. Going quietly to your grave as Town is terrible play and I won't be shamed for not doing it. Staying alive is not a tactic reserved solely for scum.

[Robz888]

Okay, I didn't end up re-reading Day 3, but I DID re-read Day 2 for the first time, and man... it's PPS! I forgot how and why I was so certain it was PPS until I re-read, but it just has to be.

At the time, we were all saying it was yuma and PPS and they were done done done for, and that was the source of yuma's frustration. And they had no idea how to react to each toher at that point. It's extremely awkward. Eventually yuma starts lashing out at PPS in this totally non genuine way, and PPS tries to hammer yuma and somehow proclaim that he isn't mafia and he doesn't know what yuma will flip. Also... he doesn't let yuma claim! I think that may have been a scumslip. Wouldn't you let the guy claim, if you had actual reservations that he was scum, as PPS pretended to?

Lots of the dead people really thought it was him at that point too, including mcmcsalot and Eevee.

So we should lynch PPS, which is something we should have done yesterday.

In the event that PPS is town... Mail-mi, listen to shraeye, and lynch Axxle with him. We have to basically just trust your Night 1 RB, I think. It'll be kind of hilarious how badly your power screwed us over if shraeye is scum, but oh well.

Vote: Pingpongsam

[mail-mi]

I need to reread...but I have a history test tomorrow. I"ll reread tomorrow and see if I want to lych PPs with you,

[Robz888]

Oh, and mail-mi, Good Lord, do NOT block shraeye tonight. If shraeye is scum, he is blocking you anyway and your blocking does no good. If he's town, and he still has his Doc shot left, the scum can't stop you AND shraeye. So block Axxle or scotty. I suggest Axxle, unless shraeye can come up with some reason to block Scotty.

[Robz888]

I need to reread...but I have a history test tomorrow. I"ll reread tomorrow and see if I want to lych PPs with you,

If you are pressed for time, I really recommend just re-reading Day 2. It's short, and things are very clear. Pay attention to the frustration that yuma and PPS are feeling, knowing they are tagged together (sort of randomly, but I think in hindsight obviously accurately).

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.6:

Axxle (1): shraeye
PPS (1): Robz888

Not Voting (4): scott_pilgrim, mail-mi, PPS, Axxle

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Day 4 ends on March 25 at 8:00 a.m.

[Axxle]

Vote: PPS

Okay, I didn't end up re-reading Day 3, but I DID re-read Day 2 for the first time, and man... it's PPS! I forgot how and why I was so certain it was PPS until I re-read, but it just has to be.

At the time, we were all saying it was yuma and PPS and they were done done done for, and that was the source of yuma's frustration. And they had no idea how to react to each toher at that point. It's extremely awkward. Eventually yuma starts lashing out at PPS in this totally non genuine way, and PPS tries to hammer yuma and somehow proclaim that he isn't mafia and he doesn't know what yuma will flip. Also... he doesn't let yuma claim! I think that may have been a scumslip. Wouldn't you let the guy claim, if you had actual reservations that he was scum, as PPS pretended to?

Lots of the dead people really thought it was him at that point too, including mcmcsalot and Eevee.

So we should lynch PPS, which is something we should have done yesterday.

In the event that PPS is town... Mail-mi, listen to shraeyeAxxle, and lynch Axxle scott with him. We have to basically just trust your Night 1 RB, I think. It'll be kind of hilarious how badly your power screwed us over if shraeye is scum, but oh well.

Vote: Pingpongsam

FTFY

[shraeye]

Arrrg, Robz.  Can't we let it be Axxle first?

[shraeye]

what sticks out about PPS's Day2 play? I'm reading it now, and I haven't found your smoking gun yet. 

On the other hand, none of Axxle's claimed night-actions support any of his play, his day1 treatment of raerae was absolutely non-committal until he hammered, he had expressed absolutely no suspicion of raerae up until that point.  His day2 treatment of yuma was ultra suspicious.  So there are obvious reasons to tie him to BOTH of the flipped scum.

[pingpongsam]

Well, I was thinking it over in the shower this morning and it boils down to either scotty or Axxle for me. I'm not lynching Robz, mail-mi or shraeye today. I agree with Robz' assessment that scotty could be classic newbie scum coasting to victory. If Axxle flips town then I would have to strongly consider scotty. But as it stands I have to

Vote: Axxle

I don't see my vote changing anymore today. I can only say we are making a grievous error to flip me today and there are good voices of reason saying we shouldn't. If Axxle is the next obvious flip after me then please flip Axxle today.

[pingpongsam]

Scott, mail-mi, PPS and shraeye are sufficient to lynch Axxle so we do not necessarily have to sway Robz.