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[yuma]

Absolute scum; no question: yuma

Do you have a result you want to make up and share with the rest of us? Because I absolutely have a question about this. You might think you are sure, but you are not absolutely sure, so don't say that you are.

[Robz888]

Absolute scum; no question: yuma

Do you have a result you want to make up and share with the rest of us? Because I absolutely have a question about this. You might think you are sure, but you are not absolutely sure, so don't say that you are.

Shraeye, don't answer that question.

[yuma]

Absolute scum; no question: yuma

Do you have a result you want to make up and share with the rest of us? Because I absolutely have a question about this. You might think you are sure, but you are not absolutely sure, so don't say that you are.

Shraeye, don't answer that question.

I didn't expect him to answer obviously. But the problem remains of people overstating (100% sure, absolute scum, no question, etc, etc) their reads with no concrete, mod given information to back it up and that is a problem and has been a problem and will probably continue to be a problem until people learn to actually think for a second that they could possibly be wrong about something...

Or maybe that is the secret to winning at mafia? Cause if so that would explain why I have been losing so much... trying to be open and not bullheaded about my reads? Well either way, shraeye is wrong here, so it obviously isn't going to be successful here

[mcmcsalot]

yea i strongly dislike the fact that shraeye has my highest scum read as a town read and someone i am not confident on either way as absolute scum...

[pingpongsam]

My flip flopping is scum bait. It's the Town meta I'm trying on this game. mcmc and robz seem to be taking it.

Yuck? Why? Like what purpose is this supposed to serve? How does it help anyone but yourself?

I don't see how it helps me because it certainly puts me in great danger of a mislynch. The question has to be asked, though, what scum down to 2 on D2 is going to put themselves in great danger of a lynch?

I could state the truest purpose but it would defeat that purpose.

[pingpongsam]

yea i strongly dislike the fact that shraeye has my highest scum read as a town read and someone i am not confident on either way as absolute scum...

There's no way shraeye is scum. so, why do you dislike this so strongly? That seems scummy to me as if your agenda is being threatened. I don't see why Town should feel committed to any wagon or theory right now.

[yuma]

I don't see how it helps me because it certainly puts me in great danger of a mislynch. The question has to be asked, though, what scum down to 2 on D2 is going to put themselves in great danger of a lynch?

I could state the truest purpose but it would defeat that purpose.

Of course it helps you!

If you are scum then it helps sow confusion about your alignment. Note that you only brought up your new, edgy playstyle once you had received some heat regarding your flip flopping. This obviously only helps you and your team.

If you are town it only helps you as only you know your alignment and know that what you are doing. The rest of us have to, as Eevee says, "second guess ourselves at all time" regarding you. You say that you are doing this to see if people will take the bait. How do you know that the players taking the bait are scum? Why would scum or town react any different to you when you are in fact doing something scummy? Town wants to lynch scum, scum wants to get town to lynch scummy people.

So yes, the question should be asked about scum down a scum day2. That is a valid question, but again I mention that you only brought this up as an excuse for the behavior that people were calling you out on.

So, yeah the game is up. I think you had better tell us what your ultimate purpose was in totality because I think the purpose is already defeated and was defeated from the start.

[pingpongsam]

yuma is fishing

[pingpongsam]

I'm halfway through my full re-read and ADK looks more scummy, mcmc looks less scummy, Axxle is less Towny and Robz is WAY more towny. Robz is playing a similar game to me in that it's more about eliciting a reaction.

[yuma]

yuma is fishing

That is ridiculous. I don't role fish. I have never role fished and never will role fish.

I am not interested in what ever you are talking about in terms of your role. What I am talking about is that you are running a gambit

My flip flopping is scum bait. It's the Town meta I'm trying on this game. mcmc and robz seem to be taking it.

that as far as I can tell is being done regardless of your role (not alignment... role) or lack of role.

What it looks like you are doing is...

1. being called out for flip flopping
2. justifying your flipping via some sort of baiting process
3. getting called out for baiting
4. trying to flip the suspicion to me for calling you out on it by saying that I am role fishing

vote: PPS

[pingpongsam]

Well the play is all about obscuring where the PR is. yuma appears to be voting me because he thinks he found a PR because I mentioned fishing which is what he was doing.

[pingpongsam]

yuma sees it as me or him today. gotta make it me, right?

[yuma]

Well the play is all about obscuring where the PR is. yuma appears to be voting me because he thinks he found a PR because I mentioned fishing which is what he was doing.

What the hell are you talking about?

I never said anything about PRs... you are purposely obfuscating whatever it is you are doing which does benefits to no one and have been consistently doing it after being called out my someone for doing something scummy.

You are being scummy and then trying to either justify that scumminess or deflecting the scumminess away.

[yuma]

yuma sees it as me or him today. gotta make it me, right?

I don't see it that way at all! Do you?

You versus me conversations are never beneficial to town. Right now I see it as you are better than everyone else

[pingpongsam]

--------Would Lynch Reads:
ADK - scum written all over him on the reread.
Yuma - only slight chance in my mind yuma is not scum but the notion is there
---------Scum Reads:
Axxle - quite scummy D1, especially with the vote shuffling towards the end, i think he is playing a great scum game if he is scum
---------Null Reads:
mcmcsalot - overall scummy but the way he voted raerae just doesn't look like scum
scott_pilgrim -true null
Eevee - true null
mail-mi - null leaning town, very absent
---------Town Reads:
Robz - Totally townRobz on reread
shraeye - demanded the raerae lynch in a very non-bussing sort of way
=========IC Reads:
pingpongsam

I see I am strongly in agreement with shraeye, here.

[pingpongsam]

Well the play is all about obscuring where the PR is. yuma appears to be voting me because he thinks he found a PR because I mentioned fishing which is what he was doing.

What the hell are you talking about?

I never said anything about PRs... you are purposely obfuscating whatever it is you are doing which does benefits to no one and have been consistently doing it after being called out my someone for doing something scummy.

You are being scummy and then trying to either justify that scumminess or deflecting the scumminess away.

I think there is place between Towny and scummy and that is where I am. I understand the idea that scummy is anything not towny but today I reject that idea. I am not being scummy at all. I'm not being particularly towny either. Scum has to have an angle to work and needs people to buy their ideas or a bad idea they can buy into themselves.

Nobody is buying what I'm selling and I'm not buying anything anyone else is selling so I'm definitively not scum. I am not deflecting. I am entirely owning my behavior. My behavior is explicitly designed to elicit reactions and fishing both of which you have exhibited.

I do see it as yuma or somebody and I think you do to. I am the easiest somebody to select and you were weak to have selected me.

[Axxle]

You're both ridiculous

[pingpongsam]

You're both ridiculous

Vote: ADK

[yuma]

Well the play is all about obscuring where the PR is. yuma appears to be voting me because he thinks he found a PR because I mentioned fishing which is what he was doing.

What the hell are you talking about?

I never said anything about PRs... you are purposely obfuscating whatever it is you are doing which does benefits to no one and have been consistently doing it after being called out my someone for doing something scummy.

You are being scummy and then trying to either justify that scumminess or deflecting the scumminess away.

I think there is place between Towny and scummy and that is where I am. I understand the idea that scummy is anything not towny but today I reject that idea. I am not being scummy at all. I'm not being particularly towny either. Scum has to have an angle to work and needs people to buy their ideas or a bad idea they can buy into themselves.

Nobody is buying what I'm selling and I'm not buying anything anyone else is selling so I'm definitively not scum. I am not deflecting. I am entirely owning my behavior. My behavior is explicitly designed to elicit reactions and fishing both of which you have exhibited.

I do see it as yuma or somebody and I think you do to. I am the easiest somebody to select and you were weak to have selected me.

In the words of Jim the Duck...


WHAT THE HELL?

[yuma]

I give up. I am going on vacation and I won't be back until Monday. Lynch me, NK me, what ever, let me live until tomorrow... I don't know if I really care anymore.

Maybe when I get back I'll care, but I sure as hell don't right now.

[scott_pilgrim]

PPS, you have to agree that if you were looking at this from an outside perspective, it just looks bad to defend your play by saying "I can't tell you why I did it".  That would be such an easy excuse to give as scum, because it requires zero explanation.  And I can't think of a situation where you would say that as town.  And then you try to flip it on yuma as "fishing".  I still think yuma is scummy, but his points are still legitimate.  You can't expect us to trust everything you say, if you just say "I have reasons I can't share" of course we're going to question.  I don't think it is ever to town's advantage to say something like that, because saying that makes people assume you're scum, and if you're actually not scum, then it is more likely to cause a mislynch, which is bad for town.

So I guess I'll just say, if you are town and you actually believe that it is best for you to not explain yourself, even taking into account the fact that it increases our chances of lynching you, then you can go ahead and keep doing that.  But at least don't act surprised when people pressure you for that.

[pingpongsam]

I guess I'm confused about the part where I stated what I was doing.

Let me do it again.

The purpose of the behavior was to elicit a scum inquisition into the possibility I am a PR which ultimately obfuscates where a PR is because the only sure fire way to get the information is to drive for my lynch. AFAICT it worked.

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.4:

yuma (3): shraeye, mail-mi, Robz888
PPS (3): mcmcsalot, Axxle, yuma
A Drowned Kernel (1): pingpongsam

Not Voting (3): Eevee, scott_pilgrim, A Drowned Kernel

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day 2 ends at 4:45 p.m. on March 14, 2014.

[shraeye]

You are being scummy and then trying to either justify that scumminess or deflecting the scumminess away.

PPS, you have to agree that if you were looking at this from an outside perspective, it just looks bad to defend your play by saying "I can't tell you why I did it".  That would be such an easy excuse to give as scum, because it requires zero explanation.  And I can't think of a situation where you would say that as town.  And then you try to flip it on yuma as "fishing".  I still think yuma is scummy, but his points are still legitimate.  You can't expect us to trust everything you say, if you just say "I have reasons I can't share" of course we're going to question.  I don't think it is ever to town's advantage to say something like that, because saying that makes people assume you're scum, and if you're actually not scum, then it is more likely to cause a mislynch, which is bad for town.

So I guess I'll just say, if you are town and you actually believe that it is best for you to not explain yourself, even taking into account the fact that it increases our chances of lynching you, then you can go ahead and keep doing that.  But at least don't act surprised when people pressure you for that.

Everybody be doing scummy things from time to time.  I think that scum is actually more likely to cook up an 'explanation' that they deliver calmly and sounds really rational, and that town is more likely to go "yeah, i can't explain that, it's just what I did but don't vote for me."  It's like when there are competing claims, and scum's is neat and in a package with a bow, and all their night-actions make sense.  And town is just a stumble-fest of unreasonableness.

PPSs all-over-the-place-ness and self-reflection ("I thought I would catch more flak for that") is definitely one thing that's giving me the town read on him.

[Robz888]

I think a longer day will just diminish my clarity of purpose. We are lynching yuma. We are lynching PPS tomorrow, irrespective of yuma's flip, unless new evidence (read: night actions) acquits him for some reason. I've had quite enough of not being heeded after I'm dead (read: Chocoloate Factory!!!!), so if I don't make it to tomorrow, well, there you go.

Please, other members of the town, vote for Yuma at this time.

-----
And yuma, I am truly sorry you are frustrated. I totally, totally believe that you are frustrated, regardless of your alignment. You have a rough couple of games mostly because of bad luck, and if you are scum, you are losing here almost entirely because of bad luck (that we actually latched onto--and then powered through--a Day 1 scum lynch).

In fact, I think this is the most likely explanation for what's triggering your frustration, so, furhter evidence. Sorry about that!

If you're town, though, cheer up man. Town is in a pretty good position and can easily survive your mislynch (and basically has to lynch you at some point, based off your raerae interactions alone).