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[mcmcsalot]

Darn you have got rid of my town read, you nullified a prior post that I thought made you town.

[Axxle]

Darn you have got rid of my town read, you nullified a prior post that I thought made you town.

You thought I wasn't familiar with Adventure Time?  Did you miss this post?

A recent Adventure Time episode did have a cranky gumball machine...

[mcmcsalot]

Darn you have got rid of my town read, you nullified a prior post that I thought made you town.

You thought I wasn't familiar with Adventure Time?  Did you miss this post?

A recent Adventure Time episode did have a cranky gumball machine...

Yes I missed that.

[raerae]

I've got some worthwhile thought.

Won't lynch; axxle, shraeye, Scott, Yuma, robz, mail-mi
Would lynch; pps, Andrew, ADK
Want to lynch; eevee, raerae

With that vote: raerae

Why not the fluff master?

[raerae]

I forgot we've already gone 'round on this.  Thanks for the requote.  You still think this is "all" we've got today?  What do you think of everybody else?

What do you think of everybody else? I know you generally don't make "reads lists" but really the only person I feel you have been vocal about as being town or scum is Andrew.

Wrong. I usually save them for the end of the day but I don't anticipate being super active this weekend so now is as good a time as any.

1.  Eevee - not much that I recall from the fluffy one except that he left his vote on me that one time after saying he didn't think I was scum, seems sloppy if he's a bad dude so default to townish?
2.  scott_pilgrim - don't remember anything other than other people voting for him
3.  Robz888 - feels like town robz, I feel like scum robz would be louder and more direction-y
4.  mail-mi - seems different than I remember, less sheepy, more forward, not sure if that's scum mail-mi or just more experienced mail-mi
5.  yuma - same as shraeye, the longer he's around the more dangerous he is to the opposite team
6.  mcmcsalot - it's been awhile but I see town mcmc here
7.  A Drowned Kernel - seems sort of flip-floppy so some suspicion but nothing vote-worthy
8.  pingpongsam - he's talked a lot but not said anything, I could see scum here
9.  raerae - town to the max
10. AndrewisFTTW - I still say he's been coached, my vote isn't moving
11. shraeye - can't read him but the longer he's alive the less I trust him
12. Axxle - been active and somewhat pushing conversation along, sort of townie

[Axxle]

10. AndrewisFTTW - I still say he's been coached, my vote isn't moving

How many players in the history of f.ds have been coached like how you're saying he was?

[AndrewisFTTW]

Even if I was "coached" (which I wasn't), what does that have to do with me being scum? I somewhat (not really) follow along with Super Mario mafia and asked a couple questions in the speccy QT that have nothing to do with what had been covered here so far. Yuma can attest to that, for what it's worth.

Anyway, likewise my vote isn't going anywhere for right now. Raerae seems the scummiest out of everyone right now and most people agree, even if they aren't showing it with their vote.

[raerae]

10. AndrewisFTTW - I still say he's been coached, my vote isn't moving

How many players in the history of f.ds have been coached like how you're saying he was?

That's a stupid and unanswerable question and you know it.  What do you hope to gain from that?  You want a number?  You want me to go back through all the 30+ scum QTs and see if scum ever gave their partners tips on how to act and how to respond to thing? 

[raerae]

Even if I was "coached" (which I wasn't), what does that have to do with me being scum? I somewhat (not really) follow along with Super Mario mafia and asked a couple questions in the speccy QT that have nothing to do with what had been covered here so far. Yuma can attest to that, for what it's worth.

Anyway, likewise my vote isn't going anywhere for right now. Raerae seems the scummiest out of everyone right now and most people agree, even if they aren't showing it with their vote.

Who's going to tell you to play up the newbie thing if you aren't scum?  That's what it has to do with you being scum.  And, can you remind me, why I am scum other than the fact that I think you're scum?

(Also, on-going game rule, you probably don't want to say too much more on that even if you're just in the speccy.)

[Axxle]

10. AndrewisFTTW - I still say he's been coached, my vote isn't moving

How many players in the history of f.ds have been coached like how you're saying he was?

That's a stupid and unanswerable question and you know it.  What do you hope to gain from that?  You want a number?  You want me to go back through all the 30+ scum QTs and see if scum ever gave their partners tips on how to act and how to respond to thing?

I just want a number greater than zero.  I just don't think this is something scum does.

[AndrewisFTTW]

quote author=raerae link=topic=10187.msg349348#msg349348 date=1393633108]

Even if I was "coached" (which I wasn't), what does that have to do with me being scum? I somewhat (not really) follow along with Super Mario mafia and asked a couple questions in the speccy QT that have nothing to do with what had been covered here so far. Yuma can attest to that, for what it's worth.

Anyway, likewise my vote isn't going anywhere for right now. Raerae seems the scummiest out of everyone right now and most people agree, even if they aren't showing it with their vote.

Who's going to tell you to play up the newbie thing if you aren't scum?  That's what it has to do with you being scum.  And, can you remind me, why I am scum other than the fact that I think you're scum?

(Also, on-going game rule, you probably don't want to say too much more on that even if you're just in the speccy.)
[/quote]

Ok first of all I'm not playing anything up. I don't think i've even said anything newbie-ish in quite a while. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

What's scummy about you is how you asked a loaded question and had your mind made up on how you would vote despite the answer. I don't care that you voted for me. I was actually one of last people to vote for you.

[AndrewisFTTW]

I'm sorry, typing on my phone is not ideal but it's what I'm working with for a while.

[yuma]

Well Axxle, I'm glad you asked.  Yuma is being loud and all over the place.  As someone else mentioned who I don't remember at the moment he does seem to be avoiding the raerae wagon. If raerae flips scum it's a very real possibility that yuma's her partner. That said I don't think raerae's scum and yuma's just trying to avoid being on the mislynch wagon.

wait...

Vote: yuma

That seems most likely.

Avoiding the raerae wagon?

You mean the wagon that I basically built the case on that for some bizarre reason has completely stalled and is going no where?

Maybe you should go back and pay more attention before you vote for someone. I don't care if you are drunk when you do.

But more importantly is that I am seeing that shraeye himself didn't contradict Axxle on this false premise (as it was shraeye putting forward the supposition about me that Axxle erroneously attributed his vote to). This indicates to me that shraeye doesn't care why people vote for me as long as they do... Something I think scum would think far more than town as scum only wants to get someone lynched that they know to be town. Town is looking for scum, make sure who they are voting for is in fact scum and wants to figure out the alignment of others at the same time...

[yuma]

Yeah... let me do a re-read of yuma.

Did you ever do this?

[yuma]

I think Yuma has been loud regardless of alignment recently, there is that whole thing called baby stress that I'm guessing has caused us too see an ever so slightly less calm and collected Yuma(no offense meant) so I think it's not indicative of his alignment.

No offense taken. I think it has more to do with the fact that I just have less time to be online in these games, so when I am online I am very direct and forward in my questions and probing.

I expect people to respond to my queries (in a timely manner of course) and if they don't I am going to get after them because it might be another 24 hours until I get back online...

speaking of which... shraeye you have pretty much ignored everything I have asked you to elaborate on...

[yuma]

Anyone wanna make a case for pps to be town I get hugely summy vibes from his overall lack of sense making(to me)

You won't get one from me. I agree with his lack of sense, opportunistic voting and for apparently calling out scum teams day1? (the last part isn't so much a scumtell as town does it all the time, but an annoyance tell because town does it to their detriment all the time)

[yuma]

I forgot we've already gone 'round on this.  Thanks for the requote.  You still think this is "all" we've got today?  What do you think of everybody else?

What do you think of everybody else? I know you generally don't make "reads lists" but really the only person I feel you have been vocal about as being town or scum is Andrew.

Wrong. I usually save them for the end of the day but I don't anticipate being super active this weekend so now is as good a time as any.

Yes. Sorry, I intended my statement to read "generally don't make "reads lists" until the end of day. As it is getting to the end of day I thought it might be good for you to provide one since you were asking it of other players...

As to your reads you seem to have 2 scum reads: Andrew (who by the way isn't getting lynch. Sorry friend... he just isn't. Too many people don't consider what you are seeing to be worthwhile enough to lynch a new, meta-lacking player. So if are town and if you want your vote to be helpful today I strongly suggest you move it...) and PPS.

That is kinda low in terms of scum reads, don't you think?

[yuma]

10. AndrewisFTTW - I still say he's been coached, my vote isn't moving

How many players in the history of f.ds have been coached like how you're saying he was?

I will say that having just come from a game with a new player as scum (DW2) there was a fair amount of "coaching" going on. Robz and I were Ichimaru's partners. And as a result there were some inconsistencies in his play... Nothing noticeable until late in the game, but I certainly noticed them as his partner.

For example: we encouraged him to ask questions as a way to up his posting... as a result he asked for definitions on stuff and then a few posts later used definitions to other more complex mafia terms...

So I am not saying that what raerae is calling out is going on here, but coaching I think does happen and could be something worth looking into once we have more data to analyze and a better idea of what Andrew's meta actually is.

[AndrewisFTTW]

10. AndrewisFTTW - I still say he's been coached, my vote isn't moving

How many players in the history of f.ds have been coached like how you're saying he was?

I will say that having just come from a game with a new player as scum (DW2) there was a fair amount of "coaching" going on. Robz and I were Ichimaru's partners. And as a result there were some inconsistencies in his play... Nothing noticeable until late in the game, but I certainly noticed them as his partner.

For example: we encouraged him to ask questions as a way to up his posting... as a result he asked for definitions on stuff and then a few posts later used definitions to other more complex mafia terms...

So I am not saying that what raerae is calling out is going on here, but coaching I think does happen and could be something worth looking into once we have more data to analyze and a better idea of what Andrew's meta actually is.

Word. I'm looking up a lot of stuff on wiki.mafiascum.net which might be why I'm not really asking a lot of questions anymore, and it's probably what I should've been doing in the first place.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Yeah... let me do a re-read of yuma.

Did you ever do this?

Nope, thanks for reminding me!

[raerae]

I forgot we've already gone 'round on this.  Thanks for the requote.  You still think this is "all" we've got today?  What do you think of everybody else?

What do you think of everybody else? I know you generally don't make "reads lists" but really the only person I feel you have been vocal about as being town or scum is Andrew.

Wrong. I usually save them for the end of the day but I don't anticipate being super active this weekend so now is as good a time as any.

Yes. Sorry, I intended my statement to read "generally don't make "reads lists" until the end of day. As it is getting to the end of day I thought it might be good for you to provide one since you were asking it of other players...

As to your reads you seem to have 2 scum reads: Andrew (who by the way isn't getting lynch. Sorry friend... he just isn't. Too many people don't consider what you are seeing to be worthwhile enough to lynch a new, meta-lacking player. So if are town and if you want your vote to be helpful today I strongly suggest you move it...) and PPS.

That is kinda low in terms of scum reads, don't you think?

Oh, you're right.  I should probably just hope on whatever bandwagon forms next and plunk my vote there. 

And no, I don't think it's low.  There's plenty of suspicious characters floating around but those are the two most obvious picks.  I'm not writing anything in stone on D1.

[shraeye]

But more importantly is that I am seeing that shraeye himself didn't contradict Axxle on this false premise (as it was shraeye putting forward the supposition about me that Axxle erroneously attributed his vote to). This indicates to me that shraeye doesn't care why people vote for me as long as they do...

Something I think scum would think far more than town as scum only wants to get someone lynched that they know to be town. Town is looking for scum, make sure who they are voting for is in fact scum and wants to figure out the alignment of others at the same time...

I'm fine with Axxle voting for scum for false premise.  I've got no need to correct him.  In fact, the reason I'm voting for you is that you felt the need to correct false info that PPS was saying about raerae, which may have caused people to vote raerae, despite the fact that you "say" that raerae is scum and that you have no idea why her wagon is bizarrely fizzling.

This just reinforced my vote on you. Axxle called you out on false premises; if I correct him, I'm hypocritical.  If I don't correct him, you try to peg me for scum because "scum would do that more often than town, because they're just looking for a lynch." A classic no-win scenario, as you've painted it.  However, the second case has a false conclusion, and people who know my meta should understand that.  This is definitely something town-shraeye does.  I'm a self-acknowledged case-inflater.  If I think somebody is scum, I will do absolutely everything I can to get them lynched.  And if somebody is voting for scum for the wrong pretenses, I'm absolutely fine with that.

[raerae]

What's scummy about you is how you asked a loaded question and had your mind made up on how you would vote despite the answer. I don't care that you voted for me. I was actually one of last people to vote for you.

Since everybody seems to have forgotten what actually happened.  Here's my reasoning and explanation after mcmc questioned what wouldn't have caused a vote.   Bolding is new.

Vote: Andrew

So here's the deal, I wanted that question answered before I finalized this because on the reread I noticed that he sounded both knowledgeable and like a super-newbie.  Ya know, "I don't know what's going on?  Is this a thing?  What about this other complicated thing that isn't normal for a newbie to know about?"  It feels like he was fed info prior to the game but then also told to play up his newbie status.  I wanted to hear what he'd have to say re: shraeye first to see if he'd actually have an opinion when pressed or if he'd just talk around an answer.  Personally, I think the thing on shraeye is nonsense and I'm shocked it gained as much traction as it did.

vote: raerae

What answer could he have given that you would not have replied the same way?
From my perspective you asked him a question and afterwards voted him for a reason unrelated to his answer.

No, I asked him that question to see if he would actually take a stance on something as he'd been pretty wishy-washy for the rest of the game.  I felt my question was pointed and didn't leave room for him to waffle, meaning he would have to give an opinion, a solid thought.  He didn't have one so it's my belief he's waiting for somebody else's reaction before he lays down his own.  It was something I got a hint at on the reread but I wanted to test my hypothesis before trying to throw a nail in that coffin.  It isn't much but it's all I got.  I think he was coached to play up his newbie status and not take strong stances.  He messed that up when he mentioned scum drawing suspicion on themselves early and tried to backpedal out of that.  It very nearly worked when Yuma gave him that "newbie know stuff too!" pass but I'm not buying it.  He was coached, he slipped up, and I'm leaving my vote where it is.

And here's FTTW's response for reference.

Sure. I did feel a little pressured and it seemed like the question was posed in an accusatory manner. However, this is the internet and I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. I have no facial expression to go on and certain sentences can seem like they're saying more than they actually are. That is to say things can be quite easily misinterpreted and skewed. Ok now I'm rambling.

Sorry for playing devil's advocate but the main thing I felt when I first read that was "why am I being asked this? I thought I was clear what I was trying to learn." It seemed more like prodding and unnecessary interrogation than a serious curiosity. Of course, that's what this game is about right?

[shraeye]

speaking of which... shraeye you have pretty much ignored everything I have asked you to elaborate on...

I looked at what you were "confused" about (or at least one post where you claimed to be confused).  It still looks pretty straightforward to me.  I'll elaborate when I feel I need to.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Sure. I did feel a little pressured and it seemed like the question was posed in an accusatory manner. However, this is the internet and I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. I have no facial expression to go on and certain sentences can seem like they're saying more than they actually are. That is to say things can be quite easily misinterpreted and skewed. Ok now I'm rambling.

Sorry for playing devil's advocate but the main thing I felt when I first read that was "why am I being asked this? I thought I was clear what I was trying to learn." It seemed more like prodding and unnecessary interrogation than a serious curiosity. Of course, that's what this game is about right?

So, is shraeye scum or not?

Am I supposed to know the answer to that? Sure.

vote: shraeye

Oh and don't forget this part.