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Messages - NoMoreFun

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Lich and Journey

Think you can play a Lich without consequences by getting an extra turn? Well if it's Journey, you still don't discard cards from play during Clean-up, so your next turn is going to be a Journey turn. And it's likely to be quite a weak turn with Lich drawing you so many cards.

I think you'd discard during your opponent's Clean-Up phase. That's what it says in the wiki anyways "If you play Lich and buy Journey on the same turn, your cards remain in play, the Journey turn gets skipped, and you'll discard everything from play during the next Clean-up (yours or another player's)." So, I think that when your next regular turn comes around, you'll have already discarded all your cards (barring your opponent skipping a turn from their own Lich)

That might be the case - in the game it happened to me on the game actually ended during my opponent's turn. I just saw my crappy hand and a bunch of cards in play.

Still an anti-synergy if you play so many cards that you draw junk or even fewer than 5 cards.

Action/Command/Roster - $1
You may play an Action or Treasure from your hand. If you did, play the card with the same cost in $ from your Roster afterwards, leaving it there.
(Premonition: Changing of the Guard)

Changing of the Guard
Every seven turns, Rosters rotate to the left, and each player gains a Collaborator.

(My understanding of the Roster mechanic: In games with a Roster type card, you have a Roster mat. Each Roster mat is unique to each player and contains a card of each cost $1-$6. For cost $1, Ways that make sense as Action cards (e.g. Sheep, Pig, Goat) are included as cards)

Dominion General Discussion / Re: * Plunder Previews #5: More Stuff *
« on: December 17, 2022, 07:01:46 am »
Assuming there's just the 6 un-trashers (no others in Plunder), there's a 13.4% chance of at least one of them being in a game of all kingdoms full random latest editions (not accounting for Young Witch, Black Market etc.) I think that probability is low enough for the Trash to be considered the trash.

For comparison, when Dark Ages came out, the probability was 10.5% of having either Graverobber or Rogue in the Kingdom. Even just Base (1st edition) and Dark Ages gives a 30.8% chance of un-trashing (not counting Thief).

So fair to assume the trash is the trash when you play a game of Dominion, but of course it depends on the Kingdom.

A card that sends cards back to the box, to "Oblivion" etc. would meaningfully interact with the 6 untrashers, Forager, Necromancer and the "When trash" cards (+Tomb and Sewers). That would actually be quite common as the number of when trash cards is going up. Going to wait until the full set is revealed before calculating probability (and not sure how to include the landscapes).

Lich and Journey

Think you can play a Lich without consequences by getting an extra turn? Well if it's Journey, you still don't discard cards from play during Clean-up, so your next turn is going to be a Journey turn. And it's likely to be quite a weak turn with Lich drawing you so many cards.

Never mind, you discard your cards from play during your opponent's Clean-Up phase. The hand you draw won't be as good, but at least you have access to your cards.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: * Plunder Previews #3: Loot *
« on: December 15, 2022, 08:26:55 am »
I've had the opposite experience to GHerald. I haven't really cared which Loot I get - I'm happy with the Gold and everything else is a nice bonus which doesn't really decide the game. I put them in the same category as Boons. Perhaps even less bothersome - Loots are harder to get so e.g. Prize Goat being the only trasher doesn't bother me as much as someone getting an early Flame's Gift. 

Spell Scroll has seemed like the dud but that may be because I end up seeing it with Pickaxe and I've turned it into a Gold most times (which may not have been optimal play). Orb's "March" effect seems quite niche (+$3 and +1 Buy is more powerful than most cards in the buy phase) but I'm sure it comes up, even just to play one of the other Loots.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« on: December 15, 2022, 08:06:03 am »
Seems like some Traits make cards pretty bonkers (Cheap Seer, Hasty Experiment, Inherited Possession), but the probability is low enough that it doesn't matter.

I can also imagine a few card (shaped things) seeming a lot weaker in full random than in the previews like Prosper, Pendant, Wealthy Village.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« on: December 15, 2022, 07:54:35 am »
Does Inherited work from the top of the pile first, or are we all starting with a Fortune this game?
No, you all get a Gladiator. Except in a 6 player game, then the last Player is the lucky one :-)
Also funny with split piles from Allies in a 5 player game, and Castles with any player count (although in 2 player both would start with Humble).

The Castle pile is simply Victory-Castle, so Traits don't apply to it. I think Territory is the only non Action/Treasure card that can get caught up in Traits.

Dominion General Discussion / Re: * Plunder Previews #4: Next Time *
« on: December 15, 2022, 07:33:41 am »
The most interesting difference between these cards and Reserves is that they can activate when you don't really want them to.

Abundance might be one of my favourite cards yet in terms of the tactics around playing it.

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest #171: Gains Upon Gains
« on: December 10, 2022, 06:49:53 pm »
Action - $4
For the rest of this turn, when you play an Action, if it's the first time you played a copy of it this turn, gain a Gold

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest #170: 2/7 Offsuit
« on: December 05, 2022, 07:39:23 pm »
Soldiers Village
cost $2 - Action - Attack
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may play an Attack card from your hand.
When you gain this, gain another Soldiers Village (that doesn't come with another).

Armed Smithy
cost $7* - Action - Attack
+3 Cards
+1 Buy
Each other player discards an Action or an Treasure (or reveals they can't), and draws until they have 4 cards in hand.
This costs $1 less per an Attack card you have in play.

8 Soldiers Villages are on 4 Armed Smithies.

EDIT: cost changed ($6 was too easy to gain).

There's no hard and fast rules about what should or shouldn't be an Attack, but Soldier's Village doesn't need to be an Attack. It could be worth putting in a weak attack if you don't play one, or if you play an Armed Smithy or Soldiers Village with it.

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest #170: 2/7 Offsuit
« on: December 01, 2022, 09:11:56 pm »
Action/Duration/Attack - $7
At the start of your next turn, gain a Gold, or a non-Victory card from the trash, to your hand. Until then, at the start of clean up, each other player trashes the first card costing $5 or more they discard from play on their turn.

Note: You can choose the order you discard cards from play. The wording is so that multiple Usurpers still only hit one card.

Action - $3
+4 Cards
At the start of your buy phase, you may discard an Action from your hand. If you didn't, return this to its pile.

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest #168: Turkey Time
« on: November 15, 2022, 04:37:18 am »
So i tried a few different names, but most were too complex so i settled for something simple.

Duration cards only stay in play if there is something to track on a future turn. So if you choose the first option then it won't stay in play... which makes this card strictly better than Laboratory!
Even if it did stay in play on the Laboratory option (which it doesn't), it would still be too powerful at $3.  Compare it to Caravan, which costs $4 and doesn't give you the Lab effect until next turn (in addition to not having the other option). 

Even having it be +1 Card +1 Action now would be strong, since you could buy them for the next-turn effect (which is stronger than Caravan's) but still have the cantrip option to keep them from harming you if you drew them too early.  You might even be able to knock a card off of both options, which would still make it a useful tool for boosting the reliability of your engine (I'd buy it in most games), although I don't know if that would make it too weak compared to Gear (which admittedly is pretty strong, IMO).
Even merely the secondary option would be too strong at $3.

If I remember correctly, just "At the start of your next turn, +3 cards" was too good for $4, I think because it was less likely to collide than Smithy.

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest #168: Turkey Time
« on: November 10, 2022, 05:43:37 pm »
Salt Pans
Action - $3
+1 Card
You may play an Action from your hand twice, ignoring +Card, +Action and +$ amounts from it this turn.

Salt brings out the flavour of food. I didn't think salt and vanilla went well together, though on a Google maybe that isn't correct.

Corrupted System
Action - $5
+3 Mutineers
This turn, during your Action phase, when you discard any number of cards from your hand, +1 Card

(E.g. you get +1 card after you discard 3 cards from playing Warehouse, +1 card after discarding from a Mutineer spend)

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Card Mechanics Week 46: Singletons
« on: October 29, 2022, 12:34:54 am »
Since it was my mechanic, not sure whether I'm eligible or not, but I'll post it anyway.

Bear Market
Action/Single - $0
+1 Buy
When you gain this, if it's your buy phase, gain a Gold per differently named other card you gained in it.

Sometimes you buy a bad card because it's the only +buy in the kingdom. I've taken that to its logical conclusion.
If it isn't the only +buy, then it can be a good source of $ like Commerce if you are willing to act first.

Weekly Design Contest / Re: Weekly Design Contest #167: Monster Mash
« on: October 26, 2022, 10:09:51 pm »
Ways and Means
Event/Way - $2
Gain a Silver onto your deck

I completely agree that the name "Old Bridge" is unfortunate it fits the low cost, but does not fit the "cannot gain cheap card" effect. Does anyone have a better idea?

I think it's a great name. It's a rickety old bridge so you can't extend it (buy another one) or put too much weight on it (buy a bunch of cheap cards). It's the perfect name for a cheap card.

Action - $5
The next time you gain a card this turn, if... bought it, put it onto your deck;'s an Action, +1 Buy; costs less than this, +1 Action

Based on your feedback which was mostly positive for Gubump's card I would assume they got runner up vs your feedback on MrHiTech's which tend toward the negative.

Also on your feedback for Gubump's card seemed you misunderstood the card, as it clearly says gain a non-Victory card and you mentioned gaining a province out from under a player.

Indeed, I had "remodel reaction" on my mind and didn't pay close enough attention to the card text. I've edited my comments (but it didn't change the result). We all do our best to judge cards but mistakes happen.

I intentionally tried not to pay attention to who posted which card, so after selecting my runner up I scrolled back through the post to see who posted it. So thanks for helping me assign credit correctly.

I don't think I agree with the assessment that "Woodcutter +1$ +Borrow" is too strong for $5.  Borrow being a "free" event signals to me that adding its effect to an action card is more of a downside than an upside.  Look at Sacred Grove: assuming all Boons have equal value, it's worth the equivalent of a Woodcutter +$2 with a downside five-sixth of the time, and one-sixth of the time it has no downside.

Borrow is a bad buy when you don't really need the $1, so you're right it would largely be a downside if compulsory. But in my judgement the +buy makes it less likely that any of that $4 is wasted.

There's a good idea there. Cauldron and Collection explore the premise of buying Action cards into the late game, and  it's one worth exploring more. Your card does that through giving a penalty for not buying an Action, a sound idea, which I think is muffled by it being way too strong early and not enough of a penalty later. But ultimately that's just my opinion and it's not like I playtested the card or anything like that.

Foreign Market
Always good to make reference to official cards when doing the wording and formatting.

I think this will be a lot of fun in games where it's the only +buy - you get the first use of it and a Coffers, but then other players get the benefit of the +buy when you might really want it. Might be my favourite version of the rotating card that I've seen on this forum in terms of how I imagine games with it. Well done.


Great idea, but I think it might just be a bit too hard to make this go crazy. Even getting it to gain a $3 will be work and you can only do so much trashing without something like Trail or Fortress. Without it you'd need a deck drawing engine and another trasher, which you aren't using to its full extent early on, before you can use this to have a megaturn. Would be worth playtesting but I think if you pursue the megaturn strategy with this on boards with the right pieces, you'll lose to a generic engine strategy. So in most games I think it will just be a cantrip trasher. That's not so bad (I often buy Priest without making use of the when trash +$2), but I think the card would be better if it was a little stronger, like if the card was gained to your hand (encouraging even Copper gaining).

Old Uni
I like the effects choices of this card, though the third might be a bit time consuming and the card would be fine without it. It having a potion cost I think lets it down in comparison to University, and it would be fine at $5.

Young Pirate
The kind of card I had in mind when I called this contest. It's got the same mechanic as Pirate, but because it doesn't gain a treasure, it highlights some of Pirate's other interactions. I don't really like the combination of cards and $. $ is great because it makes you think about balancing treasure and non treasure payloads. If I was designing it I would have made it "Now or at the start of your next turn, +$2, +1 buy" for $4. But seems fun.

I like this better than Nobles and Harem. It makes the midgame more interesting. Peddler Variants are often a "why not" card more than something necessary (the only +actions) or regrettable (a Silver), so finally you have to think early about the opportunity cost of only getting a Peddler for $6 for the VP advantage. Not the most inspiring card but this would have been great in Intrigue 2E to replace Harem.

Night Shift
A nice extra turn card to add to the collection. Maybe a bit too Big Money incentivising.

This will be mostly used to play other $5 cards (assuming you round down) and $2 cards, not the $3 and $4 cards BOM tends to play. So a great complement. I think a $5 card that gives a debt is a $3 card (I entered it in a competition) so strength-wise it's about right. The more I think about this card, the more I like it.

The closest comparison I can see is Wheelwright, which has the same interactions but stronger. You would at least want the Silver gaining (and maybe all gaining) to be to your hand for a $5 card. If that's what you meant to do, then this is a nice explorer replacement with some extra utility in the late game with spare + actions. But I have to judge what I see.

Gilded City Guardian
Probably about right strength wise and it would be decently fun online. Donald X didn't do non terminal Boon cards for a reason. Also with this card it would be easy in multiplayer to limit the availability of Boons by setting aside a bunch.

I don't really like Hexes or Cursed Village which is clouding my judgement of the heirloom, but it isn't really a good complement to the main card in my view.

Loyal Village
The difference with Underling is you'd buy this even if you weren't all that interested in the Ally. So it's a nice introduction to the mechanic, as well as +action management which I like. Good, simple card.

A great Dark Ages card. Has a pile emptying interaction with Watchtower. But I like this better than Fortress as you can imagine the Draw to X and trashing coming into play in the same games (as trashing benefits small hands). Good card.

Great intention, just a little too strong even at $4. Exploration is a decent buy that often only gives you +1 Coffers and +1 Villager once. Even just the Villager and you have an excellent card that would be bought in a lot of games.

I imagine the fun of a someone else Knight or Bandit trashing a one of your Golds, triggering this reaction, and gaining the last province to win the game. EDIT: This imagination caused me to pay less attention to the actual card text, which specifies non victory. In fact I imagine a lot of fun interactions with this card. Great design.

As an aside, if I was allowed to enter I'd do some sort of Crypt or Archive variant, so you hit a nerve for me with this one. This is the kind of card where I'd like to see a top ranked player make an engine when it's the only +Actions card. You probably want it as a pseudo trasher/exiler, but making the most of it is a different matter. An engine enabled by early greening - what a concept! What a delightful card.

Treasure Trove is one of my favourite cards, but this is a bit too strong. Treasure Trove being a Treasure still encourages you to play around a bit with Terminal Draw and other enablers. Can't imagine doing anything but playing BM with this card.

Guild Warehouse
I like your intention here. The strongest aspect of this card is the combination of sifting and +buy. It is an invitation for early greening. But I'm not sure it really stands out as a $5, though I agree with what you're saying about how beginners see Market (It's how I saw it).

It will come down to the cards in the pile. Gaining the card after choosing to rotate is a good way to prevent spiteful play. It will suck to miss out on a card (though it moves slowly enough that you can't blame other players).

Making more accessible versions of powerful cards is a great idea. The best comparison for this card is Scavenger - instead of +$2, you get +1 Card and +1 Action at the start of your next turn, and it's non terminal. I don't think it needs to be gained to hand - it's powerful enough without it and compares too favourably to Ghost Town with it.

Unnamed Way of the Turtle inspired card
The Way of the Turtle and Voyage interaction is a great one (especially with multiple turns) so good on you for trying to recreate a fun interaction in a single card. It's not clear from the wording whether you get the effect of the action on play, or whether it's a compulsory Way of the Turtle. The former is way too powerful - an extra turn being even more powerful than your first one. The latter means basically you get to tee up 1 card for your next turn, and buy whatever your treasures can afford, which isn't all that interesting. Something like a +1 Action, unbounded Royal Galley might be what you're after. Also there's nothing in the rules saying what a "terminal" is.

What you've shown me is that being a Treasure makes Black Market much cleaner. This fits the contest brief nicely - more Black Market, this time with events. I can foresee a few tracking issues, but it would be a fun online card. I have concerns that events can be more influential from a single buy than cards. Hitting Inheritance or Lost Arts can give your deck an immense advantage that would be hard to replicate with a single copy of a card.

Hidden City Explorer
High risk, high reward. The card is a terrible $5 but the hidden cities are outstanding and could turn the tide of the game. I think there's a bit too much luck involved to get a Hidden City, with what your "secret" card is in the opening, and with getting first access to the Hidden City that will win you the game (which might depend more on the kingdom than how the game is played).

Another entry that is a cleaner version of an existing mechanic. Not as high stakes as Mining Village, where making the wrong decision on when to trash that card can end up making your deck not function. This is a lower risk card, especially if you end up with an abundance of +buys, so it's a nice exploration of what Mining Village has to offer that encourages actually using the trashing function more aggressively. A good entry.

Trust Fund
Initially I thought this was way too weak, then I realised that you would want to put a variety of Victory cards on it. There's a clear strategy here - set aside an estate and a province, and pick +1 Card +1 Action, and you can green without hurting your engine. Kind of like Sanctuary. I'd like to see how Duchies and Alt VP come into it. But what you end up with is a very different game of Dominion with a different flow. A very game warping landscape (like Keep) - and I'm not sure whether I'd have more fun in games using it.

Rat King
City Quarter is better than this except for the remote possibility of dishing out a Hex. This can have a much lower cost and avoid hexing. The card this makes me think of is Crossroads - turning "junk" into draw, but with a specific kind of junk. Could be fun to play with at a lower cost.

Oil Merchant
+$3, +1 Buy with a compulsory Borrow - probably too strong for $5 as a BM card. That's without the Action opt out. For much of the game you're buying Actions with this (if you're making an engine) so it's very strong. Probably too strong and will lead to games that are over too quickly.

One of the other contests I won used a similar concept (Loner, contest #54). So clearly I like the premise. But this card is too strong. It's way too much of a no brainer to buy at least one, which is at no risk of leaving your deck. The others are nice bonuses, and I don't think it's too hard to get past the point where you're likely to net more than $3 value from playing Outcast and be able to buy it back.


This was a very hard contest to judge. Many cards perfectly fit the brief and I can't suggest any improvements. Many would fit very nicely into next editions of the original card's sets. Overall I hope you had fun thinking about your favourite cards.

There can only be one winner, and that is

Commander, by Udzu
Runners up: Herder by faust and Sepulcher by Gubump

Contest Closed

I will get to judging later today (in my time zone, where it's early morning at the time of writing)


Weekly Design Contest #165: More Favorites, More Fun

For this contest, think about your favorite cards. The ones you picked on Dominion Online. What do you like about them? What makes games with them fun? Why do you like seeing them pop up in a kingdom when you're playing full random?

Your challenge this week is to create another card that replicates what you like about that card, as if to simulate the card being twice as likely to pop up. Maybe it's the mechanic. Maybe it's the niche it fills in kingdoms. Maybe it's just the way the card feels to play. It's not for me to say why you should or shouldn't like a card, so there are no formal rules for entering this competition. But it will help me with judging if you identify the card (shaped thing) you like and why. I also don't think saying a broad category of card ("Villages", "Trashing", "Terminal Draw") is what I had in mind.

This is basically an open round. I will be assessing on whether I think games with the card would be fun to play, but also on how creatively they fit what you find fun about a given card.  If Village is your favourite card and you submit Village but with +3 Actions instead of +2 Actions, I'm happy for you, but try and be a bit creative if you want to win. Again, your explanation of why you like a card you like is very welcome.

If they seem like they're brand new cards, but would also be talked about as "Original card/Your card" in threads here, you're on to a winner.

Thank you for judging! New contest will be up within 24 hours.

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