Treasure Map doesn't exactly "control games". It is usually pretty bad. The best use of it may be in some tricky engines, where maps collision is not luck dependent at all.No, it doesn't control games, put people open double Treasure Map on a Baker board then they collide on turn 3. This has only happened once but it's made me hate Treasure Map.
Lighthouse is the only one.Okay, how do you put it in General? Or how do you put it anywhere besides Articles?
Also, this should probably be in Dominion General, not Articles.
Haven is terrible
Strong disagreement! Haven is a descent 2-cost. I believe it can be used effectively in at least 50% of the games. Usually you just don't want to spam 'em.
Unless you want to easily pin your opponents, yes.It's not fair without:
Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand discards an Action card, or reveals a hand with no Action cards.
So you think chaining them together or Throne/King Courting them is too unfair?
So you think without the '5 or more cards in hand' text, this card would be a game controller for sure?
Scout is gained by top players in 8.5% of pro (full random) games, and much of that is presumably accounted for by Vineyards, Fairgrounds and Swindler (or something like Ironworks-Forge where it is useful just as a $4 cost action) . Either top players are all wrong, or (much more likely) Scout is horrible.Here is aggregate data from the tool on the top 20 players on Iso: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13mQ1humtQbPLY9nbKscR65dV7hbGPdI3AQkNjMHZpeM/pubhtml?gid=495443102&single=true
(1) No, it's terrible.
(2) Why is this in "Articles"?
It's not fair without:
Each other player with 5 or more cards in hand discards an Action card, or reveals a hand with no Action cards.
Haven is terrible, and I'd put it even with Secret Chamber. It synergizes with Treasure Map, and that's it. Gear is a much, much better way to do what it's trying to do.
However, if you were to say "there's no engine here, I have to play Wharf BM," my Scout engine could win. Scout can be very weak if you just pick one up, but if you build your deck with Scout, it can be quite helpful.
You do have a point there.
I've played over 10.000 games of Dominion and in only two of those was Scout better than Pearl Diver (a terrible $2-cost). There's absolutely no way you want to buy it on 10% of the boards that contain it.
And listing reasons has nothing to do with anything. I can write a 1000-page book about how Hitler was awesome, but that doesn't make it true.
I HAVE PLAYED TEN, AND EXACTLY TEN
Ha ha. He must be from Europe, where 10 would be 10,000 and 10000 would be 10.000.
NO MORE, NO LESS
I've played over 10.000 games of Dominion and in only two of those was Scout better than Pearl Diver (a terrible $2-cost). There's absolutely no way you want to buy it on 10% of the boards that contain it.
And listing reasons has nothing to do with anything. I can write a 1000-page book about how Hitler was awesome, but that doesn't make it true.
Try buying Scout a lot against good players and see what it does for you; that's always a good test.
On a certain board, you might not regret it! I bet you've barely given Scout a chance! I agree, it's not fantastic. However, if there were 100 $4 cards (I know there aren't) I might put scout somewhere around #70. When it shines, I think it shines pretty big. When it doesn't think of it as a cantrip that drew a Victory card.
Oh, I have given Scout plenty of chances. They usually don't work out. There are some cases where I will take it, but they're incredibly rare and there has to be an absence of better options.
I believe I have listed those cases, and with the amount of cards listed, there has to be at least a 10% chance that you'll buy Scout on any given board. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but Scout and it's 'listed cards' are there, 8 other cards may not be enough to beat Scout.
Hey look, I can make lists without proof too!
Apple
Peach
Ants
Plum
Pear
Banana
Coconut
Grapefruit
All of these combo with peanut butter.
Scout combos usually sound neat on paper, but if you look at history they don't win games a whole lot.
There is a Variants & Fan Cards subforum. Please use that for this sort of thing.
Try buying Scout a lot against good players and see what it does for you; that's always a good test.
On a certain board, you might not regret it! I bet you've barely given Scout a chance! I agree, it's not fantastic. However, if there were 100 $4 cards (I know there aren't) I might put scout somewhere around #70. When it shines, I think it shines pretty big. When it doesn't think of it as a cantrip that drew a Victory card.
Oh, I have given Scout plenty of chances. They usually don't work out. There are some cases where I will take it, but they're incredibly rare and there has to be an absence of better options.
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I believe I have listed those cases, and with the amount of cards listed, there has to be at least a 10% chance that you'll buy Scout on any given board. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but Scout and it's 'listed cards' are there, 8 other cards may not be enough to beat Scout.
Try buying Scout a lot against good players and see what it does for you; that's always a good test.
Wishing Well/Scout is a nombo. You're using one card to guarantee drawing one card that you could have drawn anyway. That's not very good. At best, you can use it to guarantee drawing two cards that you could have drawn anyway, that's still not very good.
There are all kinds of circumstances you can cook up that make it look better, but at the end of the day it does less for you than any other card at the $4 range, and there is so much competition at that range that Scout is almost always the worst option for you. I mean, you can make a Curse or Ruined Library a good card for you in extreme circumstances. That doesn't mean they are good cards.
I agree that you can make any card look good, but without dominant 4s (JOAT, Sea Hag, Caravan, etc.) Scout could be worth it in the long run.
Even if there were no dominant <$4 cards (or even mediocre ones), Scout still always has to compete with silver and most often loses there too. You could probably invent some sort of contrived board where you want to buy a scout, but in a random set up, the odds of ever wanting scout quickly approach 0%.
Tier 3
Squire
Native Village
Coin of the Realm
Cellar
Moat
Vagrant
Quest
Pawn
Haven
Poor House
Embargo
I wouldn't put Squire, Native Village, Haven and Coin of the Realm (usually useful) in the same tier as Cellar, Moat and Poor House (situationally useful).
There are all kinds of circumstances you can cook up that make it look better, but at the end of the day it does less for you than any other card at the $4 range, and there is so much competition at that range that Scout is almost always the worst option for you. I mean, you can make a Curse or Ruined Library a good card for you in extreme circumstances. That doesn't mean they are good cards.
All the opinions you could want circa 2013:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=6060.0
My opinion (from best to worst):
Tier 1
Chapel
Peasant
Stonemason
Page
Alms
Tier 2
Borrow
Courtyard
Hamlet
Crossroads
Lighthouse
Raze
Ratcatcher
Fool's Gold
Save
Candlestick Maker
Traveling Fair
Tier 3
Squire
Native Village
Coin of the Realm
Cellar
Moat
Vagrant
Quest
Pawn
Haven
Poor House
Embargo
Tier 4
Scouting Party
Beggar
Pearl Diver
Herbalist
Tier 5
Duchess
Secret Chamber
All he opinions you could want circa 2013:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=6060.0
My opinion: Chapel, Peasant, Stonemason
