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Messages - FishingVillage

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26
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Ideas Inspired by Adventures
« on: May 05, 2015, 09:25:30 pm »
Right, the problem is different from Moat/SC because there's no advantage in those cases to revealing them forever.  With a "while" trigger, there could potentially be an advantage to waiting forever.

In practice, you can try to design the card so that that sort of situation is unlikely to come up, but it's almost always there, in at least some edge cases.  I don't know if there's any effect that you could have that completely eliminates the problem.  For example, if we're playing Horse Archer in a game with Tunnel in it, then if a player reveals Horse Archer, he's slightly more likely to have a Tunnel in his next hand.  So it would be possible for two perfectly rational players to want to wait indefinitely to see whether the other reveals a Horse Archer, to better inform his decision as to whether he should reveal his own.  It's a very specific edge case in practice, but it's something to consider.

I'm not trying to discourage you, just pointing out something you should be thinking about with that kind of reaction trigger.  I think you have to be really careful with that sort of thing and I prefer to just stay away from it, but if you really like the idea, no one's stopping you from trying it out!

Thank you for the responses and the critique! Admittedly, I'm still not sure I understand the problem with Tunnel that you've mentioned, but I don't want to derail this thread too much. I decided to move Horse Archer into its own thread and let it have its own discussion there.

Meanwhile, I'm working on another idea to post here, hopefully it'll work a little better!

Edit:
Quote
Monastery $4
Action - Reaction
Draw up to 6 cards in hand. Trash 1 card from your hand. Discard up to 2 cards from your hand.
---
When another player plays an attack card, you may play this from your hand. (Discard this from play during your own Clean-Up phase.)

This is similar to the earlier ideas proposed by scott_pilgrim, but there's no Duration part to this card. If you get attacked, you get to play Monastery and fix up your deck while not having to spend the action that it would normally consume on your own turn. Since Monasteries get played out of your hand, you can't indefinitely draw, trash and discard off of 1 Monastery, but multiple Monasteries can work well together.

Even when no Attacks are available to trigger it earlier, Monastery can be used to clean up your deck very quickly and gives you a large amount of control over what's in your hand.

Old version:
Quote
Monastery $4
Action - Reaction
Draw up to 6 cards in hand. Trash up to 3 cards from your hand. Discard up to 3 cards from your hand.
---
When another player plays an attack card, you may play this from your hand. (Discard this from play during your own Clean-Up phase.)

27
Variants and Fan Cards / Horse Archer! The scourge of civility!
« on: May 05, 2015, 09:00:36 pm »
Quote
Horse Archer $5
Action - Attack - Reaction

Draw up to 5 cards in hand, then trash 1 or discard 1 card from hand.
Each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.
---
When another player plays an Attack card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, then at the start of your next turn, play this.
Horse Archer is indeed a attack that can counter-attack. It does so by leaving your hand and attacking at the start of your turn, as if you'd played a Horse Archer from your hand and didn't have to use an action for it.

Admittedly, even without the Reaction portion, Horse Archer is a fairly useful Attack on its own. It can sift through your deck and clean out unwanted cards (triggering Tunnel or Market Square along the way), while also hitting everyone else with a discard attack. Horse Archers never increases your final hand-size beyond 4, but unlike Militia it can help you find more cards in your deck that might be better than +$2.

The Reaction portion does have some other consequences outside of protecting against attacks. If you're playing a kingdom that has cards which give +Actions but doesn't increase hand size (such as Warehouse), you can purposely reduce your card count in hand to trigger Horse Archer! The Attack from a set-aside Horse Archer would be delayed until your next turn, but would prevent multiple Horse Archers from being dead in your hand. You could also trigger the Reaction during your Buy phase by playing as many Treasures as you can and having no more than 2 dead cards left besides Horse Archer.
Nope that stuff is dumb, maybe better on another card for comboing but not this one.

Old version:
Quote
Horse Archer $5
Action - Attack - Reaction

Draw up to 6 cards in hand, then trash 1 or discard 1 card from hand.
Each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.
---
When you have fewer than 4 cards in hand, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, then at the start of your next turn, play this.

28
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Ideas Inspired by Adventures
« on: May 05, 2015, 07:28:47 pm »
Forgive me, but isn't it possible for someone to want to show off Moat forever, or use Secret Chamber to switch other cards out of hand indefinitely? Or would the problem be with wanting to play Horse Archer last to be the player with an actual hand at the end of it all?

If the problem is that the game could be delayed forever, then that's already something which can happen in canon Dominion but we deal with it.

If the problem is that you want to be the last to use Horse Archer in order to be the least screwed over, then imo the new trigger that I posted earlier deals with those timing issues more appropriately. There's no advantage to waiting for me to set aside Horse Archer if you have one in hand, because they'll trigger in turn order instead of now.

I have other cards I can propose if Horse Archer isn't worth pursuing any further, but first I'd like to see if anyone else might be interested in it.

29
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Trading Post
« on: May 05, 2015, 06:48:35 pm »
So basically I read this thread earlier but not the new messages, hit "end", and was very confused by the last few posts I was reading. Had to scroll up a bit to understand what was going on.

Maybe we can get secret histories for card art?

30
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Ideas Inspired by Adventures
« on: May 05, 2015, 06:31:25 pm »
I just like the idea of an attack that can act as a counter-attack, but all the timing issues brought up I can understand being a pain to resolve (as well as the fact that a player could get hosed on his own turn, probably not so fun). A variant of the trigger that I had in mind was more like Horse Traders:

Quote
When you have fewer than 4 cards in hand, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, then at the start of your next turn, play this.

You could trigger it any time, but the actual resolution happened at a specific point in time, so that would drastically reduce timing conflicts and doesn't immediately counter itself. I thought that particular trigger was not quite as fun/chaotic as the one presented here ;P

I think "handsize becomes less than 5" would be too easy to trigger though. That would basically only require 1 action that doesn't draw and suddenly Horse Archer would provide its own Action. Less than 4 cards in hand would mean 3 or less, which is after getting hit by Militia/Torturer/Margrave, or after playing at least 2 non-draw actions from your hand, or after using an action that discards cards from hand.

31
Dominion General Discussion / Re: IRL Adventures stories
« on: May 05, 2015, 05:46:19 pm »
Hmm, basically the only super bad situation that comes to mind is when you draw into Story Teller late in your chain, especially if you've already got a lot of money on the table. Otherwise, for the particular deck that you have, the question is would you benefit more from +$X or +X cards?

That sound about right? I guess +X cards is generally better if you know that those X cards can do better than +$X. The tradeoff doesn't seem much better than Cellar or Stables for example, but I will keep that question in mind the next time I see Story Teller.

32
Dominion General Discussion / Re: IRL Adventures stories
« on: May 05, 2015, 04:34:05 pm »
I've played a few games with Adventures so far, but I haven't actually played with any events yet.

So what's up with Gear? Apparently in the rulebook, it says that if no cards were reserved on Gear the turn it is played, it is discarded on that turn instead of staying out like a Duration normally does. There's no wording on Gear which would indicate this, and I don't know if there were any formal rules for "if a Duration was not fully applied, discard it this turn" or something like that.

I really really like Guide and Coin of the Realm :) Fun cards that help me push forward a lot.

Lost City is definitely quite strong, even when it gave the free draw on gain to everyone else.

I underestimated Port. Never again.

Hireling is fantastic, some folks in my group think it's undercosted and might be even worth $7, or $8 (at which point I said it was silly to buy a Hireling over a Province).

Haunted Woods can spectacularly backfire by letting players save their cards for future turns.

Whenever Story Teller showed up in any of the games I played, nobody ever bought one. What sort of kingdom would be good for a Story Teller?

33
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Ideas Inspired by Adventures
« on: May 05, 2015, 03:47:29 pm »
Well, I also have an idea inspired by Caravan Guard but it will likely make people hate me :)

Quote
Horse Archer $5
Action - Attack - Reaction

Draw up to 6 cards in hand, then trash 1 or discard 1 card from hand.
Each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.
---
When you have fewer than 4 cards in hand, you may play this from your hand.

As for Caravan Guard itself... it depends on whether the appropriate reaction is even in the kingdom, but you could draw into a Moat for example right? Or something else you care about, like a Watchtower for junk attacks or Tunnel for discard attacks. Kind of the same deal as Secret Chamber but I think I like CG more. It's true though, by itself CG isn't that interesting and doesn't really help much while it is in play on other player turns.

34
* In my experience, PS is great if you're doing something similar to a simple Gardens strategy and don't mind filling up the deck asap. However in the absence of other cards this works against itself as you'll draw the PS less often. Then you'll need to buy more PS to compensate and that leads to more counting and whatever. I guess Vault, Secret Chamber and Storeroom can help toss cards out of hand to potentially increase the worth of the PS.

* I think $4? That was about 25 cards in total, so there was probably some extra buy in the kingdom, but it also wasn't a lot of fun waiting around to draw back my PSs.

* No.

* What?

35
I have 2 ideas in mind, the first one is probably quite strong, and the second will probably be more in line with what you're looking for. Once of the cool things about reserve cards is that they "trash" themselves until you need them, so in the event that the reserve cards aren't as necessary to you anymore, you can just leave them on the tavern and have a slimmer deck.

Quote
Phantom $3
Action - Attack - Reserve

Each other player gains a Curse, putting it in his hand.
When you play this, put it on your tavern mat.
---
At the start of your turn, you may call this, and put it in your hand.
It's a Cursing attack that puts the Curse in hand, which is slightly worse. But Phantom is very affordable, can basically hit every turn and doesn't ever worry about colliding with other Phantoms. And once the Curses are gone, you can leave the Phantoms in the tavern.

Quote
Chemist $4
Action - Reserve

$2, +1 Buy
When you play this, put it on your tavern mat.
---
At the start of your turn, you may call this, for +1 Card.
Chemist has a decent effect in and out of play; when played, it's basically a Woodcutter, and when called back, it's a cantrip. Pretty flexible! I personally don't think the call effect is a no-brainer, since Chemist is a terminal that you'll be shoving back into your deck and eventually have to deal with.

36
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Stupid Pet Tricks
« on: November 21, 2012, 03:50:51 pm »
Getting Diadem from the prizes pile and trashing it to a Forager for $4.

37
Dominion: Dark Ages Previews / Re: Dark Ages combo ideas
« on: October 02, 2012, 06:34:08 pm »
An obvious one, but I managed to do Mercenary + Fortress in a IRL 4p game. I nearly trashed myself out of the game since I was running 2 Mercenaries and bought a Mint, then fed the Mint to one of the Mercenaries immediately next turn. Yes that made me feel very smart.

But Mercenary + Fortress is great! I was able to draw the Fortresses together most of the time, so I wouldn't draw dead most of the time.

I didn't get a chance to try this, but in another IRL game I was watching, Beggar and Urchin/Mercenary were in the same game. It would certainly work better if there were a village to use them both at the same time, but feeding the Coppers from Beggar to Mercenary seems like a good idea.

38
Huh... so uh, if I were to use KC on Salesman, then the cost reduction would occur 3 times, since it's using the same wording as Bridge and not what Highway or Princess uses right?

39
The only "strategy" that feels like a requirement is getting/playing cursers as often as possible in a kingdom with no trashing for curses. Personally I'd find such a game more appalling than Envoy/BM, at least for the latter I might be able to deny my opponent of a Gold or something every so often.

40
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Expansion: Dominion - Eureka
« on: August 30, 2012, 03:10:31 pm »
Telescope -- You re-order three cards but can only draw one, which means a second play would have you looking at two of the same cards.  You make progress, but it's slow progress.
True true, but it's also easier to get compared to Cartographer and Apothecary, and Telescope also lets you reorder cards before drawing, which can be quite nice sometimes.

Demolition Team -- Is there any particular reason you want it to be able to trash itself?
Well... I think it is an interesting capability that can be worth exploring, but I do acknowledge that it's too strong to allow normally on a trasher. A clean deck is the best deck after all! If you're keeping good track of what's in your deck though, having a Demolition Team around to sweep off the remaining cards could be useful.

Freight Train -- Sure, but why is it a Reaction?  Why not just add it to the play effect: "Discard any number of cards, then draw up to 7 cards in hand."  Hm, I suppose it is to aid the other cards in your set that work better when you have a small hand.  But still, a reaction to the start of your turn is really strange to me.  I guess it's OK though?
Yeah, the discard becomes a choice that can be done independently of actually playing a Freight Train, in case you don't actually want to play it :P

Rickety Contraption -- It's hard to say.  I only suggested the potion cost on this and the other cards because they seem like they might be unpriceable normally.  3 cards does seem weaker and I would start testing that at $5.  Remember that even though you net fewer and fewer cards, you are still drawing the same number.  "+3 cards, discard 2" is MUCH stronger than "+1 card".

Mad Mechanic -- Hard to say as well.  It might still be OK at $6, I am just musing. :)
:P I'll try Mad Mechanic again at $6 and Rickety Contraption at $5 with +3 Cards.

Future Machine -- The other thing about this version is that you could get into an infinite state that locks another player out of the game.  Imagine there are three players.  P1 is an unlucky sap who did not buy Future Machine.  P2 and P3 split FM 5/5, such that they can reasonably expect to see FM in every hand.  Someone plays an attack, doesn't matter who.  P2/P3 reveals FM.  On their extra turn, they play an attack and the other reveals FM.  Repeat.  They keep going back and forth, taking (non-consecutive!) extra turns, while P1 never gets to play again.

Your one-shot version helps a little, but this game state is still possible -- just need to add in Graverobber!
T_T well on the bright side it'd be pretty hard to get that going perpetually. Maybe I need to apply an absolutely-removed-from-the-freaking-game-forever zone...

Saltpeter -- that phrasing is cleaner.  In an FAQ you'd probably have to clarify a bit.  An example that may be confusing for some:

You have Remodel, Saltpeter, three other cards.  Play Remodel on Saltpeter... what does it cost?  Remodel is not in your hand at that point... is Saltpeter?  I would argue no.  You trash it, then you gain a card costing up to $2 more than it, and there are 3 cards in your hand then.

My comment about the price conflict was that you would prefer to buy it when you can make it valuable; if you can do that, you can buy it cheap.  In games where it is hard to lower the price, it is also less valuable.  It makes more sense (from an economic perspective!) that it should cost more if it is going to be more valuable.  It is just a little weird, is all.  :P
Hmm... my interpretation of that scenario is that Saltpeter would have a cost of $4 at the time it is trashed, since you had Saltpeter and the 3 other cards in hand at the time. It hasn't left your hand yet at that point. When you've trashed it, the deed is done so Saltpeter's new cost no longer matters and now you can gain something up to $6. I won't mind if your interpretation turns out to be correct, although it'll make Saltpeter a tiny bit weaker for TFB.

41
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Expansion: Dominion - Eureka
« on: August 30, 2012, 06:23:59 am »
@eHalcyon:
Thanks for the response eHalcyon :) For some of the comments you made, I might not block quote them here. I will say that I definitely read through and parsed all the comments, but I won't necessarily have a meaningful response to make for all of them (maybe I just agree!), so for the comments which I can't do justice for I will leave them off.

Panhandler -- Strange.  It is a really weak card, but the permanent Moat potential really warps things.  In almost all situations I would happily take a Panhandler instead of a Curse.  Would I buy a Witch that only gave out Panhandlers (because that's what would happen)?  I'm not sure.
Well I guess the question would be if it was worth it to take Panhandlers, as they would go immediately on top of your deck instead of your discard, which could mess up your plans in different ways. Also note that gaining a Panhandler only stop one attack each time, so someone playing multiple Attacks per turn could slow down your deck quite a bit, and you will start taking attacks eventually.

Telescope -- Why is the +1 Action after the main effect?  The action sounds a little annoying to play.  It is non-terminal; if you have a few of these you'll be looking at the same cards repeatedly.  Reaction looks cool.
Telescope has an optional draw after you reorganize the top of your deck, so it doesn't leave you spinning your wheels unless you decide not to draw.

Vigilante -- Action seems not too bad, but would need testing.  The reaction adds politics to the game, so I'm not a fan.
I don't mind there being a little politics, although if the concern is that Vigilante's Reaction effect is too strong as is, maybe having the player shuffle the Victory card into his deck would be milder than leaving it on top.

Toymaker -- The reaction could make games super slow, especially when you have multiples in play, and adding on an effect like that to every action card is just asking for balancing issues.  Note that a single play of Toymaker reads "+2 Cards, +1 Action, discard a card."  That is nearly as effective as a Lab.  I would cost that alone at $4.  With the effect on all Action cards, I think I'd start testing at $5.
Whoops :X The idea is that the sifting effect doesn't start for the initial Toymaker; the first Toymaker played will just be a vanilla cantrip, but subsequent Actions after that will sift. And after a rather abrupt understanding of how "while in play" clauses really work, I'm thinking what I'll do is just drop the +1 Card off of Toymaker. Adding extra sifting onto additional Actions played is pretty good anyway.

Erratic Engineer -- razorborne is right, this is far better than Feast at the same price.  It doesn't trash itself and it has lingering cost reduction.  You probably meant to say "Gain a card costing up to $3", which lets you get a $4 card on the first place, $5 on a second place, etc.

(PPE: I would argue that your interpretation is wrong -- even though the "while in play" text comes after, it is SEPARATE from the main action and thus does not come into effect sequentially.)
Okay, hmm yeah. If that's how the timing for "while in play" clauses work, then I'll definitely need to amend that down to $3 instead.

Demolition Team -- The trashing is strong, but it's tempered by big benefit to opponents.  That looks good.  I don't like the self-trashing.  Your trasher doesn't need a way to get out of the way when it's done.
I don't mind the self-trashing so much; it has to take up a space in your starting hand first in order to be trashed. Maybe I'll make it mandatory to trash another card out of hand as well when trashing the Demolition Team.

Assistant -- I feel like playing Treasures outside of the Buy phase is something special that should stay with Black Market alone.
=\ Curious as to why that must be a Black Market specific effect, but okay.

Freight Train -- I don't see a reason for this to be a Reaction.  Just make it part of the on-play effect.
I dunno, I think being able to drop your entire current hand and draw back up to a big hand at will is very strong. Library and Watchtower are often unable to reach full potential because of dead cards or Treasure cards taking up space, but Freight Train doesn't necessarily have those problems (if you draw it in the initial hand).

Rickety Contraption -- So strong.  Even with the discard, probably too strong for even $6.  Probably needs a Potion cost to work.
Ehhh... well I didn't mention this earlier, but at least for this set, I'm trying not to include more material than what is part of the basic setup. That means no mentions of mats, tokens, and extra cards if I can help it (such as Potion and Platinum). Probably a dumb challenge, but mainly this means I'm more willing to weaken cards before I have to introduce extra materials.

Conceptually, I'm would think something like Rickety Contraption can find a happy place somewhere. Maybe drop from +4 Cards down to +3 Cards? Seems like a rather terrible $6 card if it only nets 2 cards the first time it is played (and 1 less per play after that).

Mad Mechanic -- I would word it, "Choose three (choices may be the same)."  I think the flexibility here might be too strong for just $6 (maybe needs a Potion cost).  It can already be a Lab or a terminal Gold.  The other possibilities make it really powerful.
Ack. Hmm... well honestly I don't know if Mad Mechanic is really helping the rest of the theme for this set, maybe it should be dropped. I could increase the cost up to $7, but I imagine that won't help.

Future Machine -- A this-turn Tactician... that alone I think is too powerful for $7.  Like the last two, it probably needs a Potion cost.  You could set up a "double Tactician" kind of deck so easily with just Future Machine and a single Scheme.  The reaction can get really confusing, ESPECIALLY if multiple people reveal Future Machine at the same time.
In the current version, Future Machine trashes itself, regardless of whether you play it as an Action or set it aside as a Reaction, so you can't play it forever. I'll admit the version I initially posted didn't have trashing included, but I reverted back to the original version after mulling it over some more. Sorry that wasn't made clear :(

Good point on multiple players setting aside Future Machine though. I guess the order for extra turns involving multiple players would depend on who revealed first, just as revealing Reactions is normally done in turn order as well, and normal turn order would be restored after that. Assuming a 4P game with players sitting at a round table in compass directions, if the south player played a Militia and the west and east players each set aside a Future Machine, the west player would take his extra turn first, then the east player. Once the extra turns are done, turn order would return to how it normally was after the south player, so the west player would take his turn after the south player.

Saltpeter -- Variable worth and variable price is really weird.  It also conflicts a bit.  It costs less if you have a way to lower your hand size, and it is also worth more in that case.  Conversely, it is more expensive if you don't have a way to lower hand size, in which case it is also worthless for coin.  The changing cost text needs to be phrased more clearly.
Well, Saltpeter is a card that very largely favors having a small hand size in both ways, which is what this set is about (in fact I'm worried about Saltpeter and Construction Yard being possibly too similar in use). Increasing the cost by a lot isn't all bad though, if you can take advantage of the price. Regarding cost phrasing, it used to have a base price with each card in hand increasing the price, so some of that's a bit vestigial. What about phrasing like this:

"During your turn, this costs $1 per card in your hand."

I had added the bit about drawing, playing and discarding a card to be more blunt about when the cost of Saltpeter is updated, but hopefully the above phrasing is concise enough and clear (or that the explanation in the FAQ will be helpful).

Territorial Border -- Victory cards aren't worth money, except for Harem which is worth $2. :P  I think you mean "costing."  So this is an anti-Province, and even better in Colony games.  The card is weird because if your opponents don't buy Province/Colony, it is worthless.  But if they do, this can end up worth so much.  Hard to judge.
Haha, I'll need to fix that typo :P I purposely put it at $5 so that it would have to compete against Duchy as well, which doesn't get scored by Territorial Border, so it'll come down to a bit of tug of war between Provinces/Colonies, Duchies and Territorial Borders.

@Archetype:
Many of these cards are very cool and original. But I have to say that Mad Mechanic either needs a Potion cost, or needs to be thrown out. It is similar to a card I submitted in the Potion challenge, but mine was much weaker (lacking the +1$ option) and costs 4P.

My favorite card out of the set has to be Civil Disorder or Territorial Borders.

Neat cards!
Thanks for the response :) At this rate maybe I'll be tossing Mad Mechanic out, which would be somewhat okay since it didn't really fit the theme anyway. I'm glad you're interested in Civil Disorder and Territorial Borders though!

@razorborne:
Well, there seems to be consensus here on how the "while in play" clauses work. I'll keep that in mind an update cards accordingly. Thanks for bringing it up!

42
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Fan Expansion: Dominion - Eureka
« on: August 29, 2012, 08:15:58 pm »
how is Erratic Engineer not a megafeast?
Well, I will assume two levels of concern here.

The first Erratic Engineer won't be able to gain anything costing $5, as the line for cost reduction occurs after the gain. My interpretation is that the gain will take place first, then the cost reduction activates and stays in place as long as that Erratic Engineer is around. If this is not how the order of operations occur, then I will make amendments.

But yes, the second Erratic Engineer will be able to pick up cards that originally costed $5, due to the cost reduction from the first Erratic Engineer. The third will be able to pick up anything that originally costed $6, and so on. If this is also considered too strong, then okay, I guess I should make amendments on that too.

First fan set I've read in toto.  I like the theme.  I loved Incinerator.
Thanks for the kind complements! :)

I have two comments:

a) When I read the bottom of Rickety Contraption, I read "Discard a card..." and my brain readied itself to process what came next as a description of what type of card I was going to have to discard.  I had to double back and reread to properly process that the back end of the sentence was about quantity (rather than type) of cards.  You can signpost the notion of quantity by changing the article to the cardinal number.  "Discard one card per...".

b) On Mad Mechanic, there is no antecedent for "this" in "Do this three times..."  The concept of "choosing" is not introduced until the parenthetical, and the reader then infers that choosing is the action to be performed three times.  Recasting the instruction may make things more clear, possibly eliminating the need for the parenthetical:

Choose one of the following four: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1. Repeat.  Repeat once more.

An added benefit: It's two words shorter (though not all that much space if you're counting picas).

Very nice job.  I'd like to play this set.
a) Agreed, I guess saying discard one card per would make Rickety Contraption more clear. Going to make this change now.
b) Yikes, that's quite a misfire on my part. The original text was something like this:

Choose three: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1. (Each choice can be picked more than once.)

It was based off of text from Pawn, which I think was pretty clear. Would that work? Your organization of the text would work too, I'd just replace "Repeat. Repeat once more." with "Repeat this twice" and maybe not mention four after following. It'd then look like this:

Choose one of the following: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1. Repeat this twice.

43
Dominion General Discussion / Re: X-with-a-bonus!
« on: August 29, 2012, 03:01:30 pm »
Smithy -> Catacombs?

44
Dominion Articles / Re: All-around cards
« on: August 29, 2012, 02:15:21 pm »
I am also going to vote for Gold and Platinum. Large amounts of them in your deck increases your chances to buy Provinces and Colonies, absent of other cards, and they don't have any drawbacks outside of their high up-front costs.

45
Hmm... based on what you have in mind, what is the best board for Utopian Revolution? The worst? If my starting hands are 5/2 and UR is on the board without knowing what else is there, would you recommend that I spend $5 on it? Are there any kind of timing choices to make with UR? Is UR fine if played on its own?

Tactician is a $5 card which also has a heavy drawback on use, but the next turn bonus it gives is totally worth it. As a starting card, instead of spending multiple turns buying Silvers that eventually slown down your deck anyway, you are very likely to zip up to Gold, or maybe pick up two important cards at once instead of having enough on one turn and perhaps not enough on the next (Potion cards in particular...). UR though, eliminates my hand for $1 and 1VP, which doesn't give me much purchasing options. UR junks up the other players' decks in return, but they get a normal turn to buy something (that extra Copper might even help them buy a Gold). On my next turn, my reward for losing a normal turn is gaining a Duchy. Okay, so a common thing for Swindlers to do is to change whatever $5 cards they hit into Duchies. A card that's worth 3 points but is dead in hand is probably not worth whatever utility a good $5 card could've provided through the rest of the game. When you "win" with UR, you are putting junk in your deck.

On the other hand, if you can play URs consistently, I guess you could run down Duchies and Estates quickly, but doing so means you sacrifice a lot of normal turns to buy stuff like Silver. What's the 3rd pile that you would want to run down? Maybe you don't want to, perhaps generating VP and filling the other players' decks with Coppers to slow them down might be the most optimal use of UR, but that doesn't seem very entertaining.

Harlot, if it's going to provide 2VP and $1, could probably be fine at $3. I don't think it's better than Silver at that point but okay, I've been wrong before. At $3, I could buy two Harlots instead of two Silvers with a 4/3 start, but that is probably a very bad idea in most games. Mid to late game, I'm pretty much buying Harlots because they're a better return on VP compared to Estates (like Tunnels), but as they only provide as much money as Copper, I hope my deck's money'd up enough to take on a little dilution.

46
Variants and Fan Cards / Fan Expansion: Dominion - Eureka
« on: August 28, 2012, 10:05:00 pm »
Hi folks. This is my fan expansion set, salvaged from my previous expansion, Piston Town. In the interest of making something more focused, I ended up pulling out a bunch of cards (for later) and tried focusing on a more specific theme. Some of these cards will probably seem familiar!

Mechanically, it’s about using every card in your hand every turn; using your entire deck would be even better. Some cards get better when a low hand size is achieved, other cards discard or trash cards out of hand. Handsize draw cards benefit greatly in particular.

Any feedback I can get on these cards would be welcome. I’ve included a FAQ to clarify each card, in case there might be some ambiguities/questions:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-PkjkUWqUcitKqQ12XxGQsQ0aAD8eJv3s5lgsLRA5dU/edit

If the FAQ doesn’t happen to cover something, just ask and I’ll answer to the best of my ability.

Edit001: Changed Future Machine to be more in line with the rest of the set and more like its original version. I want to refrain from personal elaborations or comments for now, mostly because I’d like to know how other folks interpret the cards without my intervention. I’ll try to spruce up the thread over time as well.

Quote
Panhandler $2
Action

+1 Action, +$1
______________________________

In games using this, when another player plays an Attack card, you may gain a Panhandler, putting it on top of your deck. If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack.

Quote
Enlist $3
Action

+2 Actions

Discard any number of cards. Gain an Action card with cost in coin up to the number of cards discarded.

Quote
Telescope $3
Action - Reaction

Look at the top 3 cards of your deck, then put them back in any order. You may draw card.

+1 Action
______________________________

When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, draw until you have 7 cards in hand, then put cards from your hand on top of your deck until you have 5 cards in hand.

Quote
Incinerator $3
Action

Each player may trash up to 2 cards from his hand. +$1 per 2 cards trashed in total, rounded down.
______________________________

When this is trashed, +1 Card and +$2.

Quote
Vigilante $3
Action - Attack - Reaction

+$2

If you have 2 or fewer cards in hand, each other player gains a Curse.
______________________________

When another player buys a Victory card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, that player puts that card on top of his deck.

Quote
Toymaker $3
Action

+1 Action
______________________________

While this is in play, after you play an Action card, +1 Card, then discard a card.

Quote
Civil Disorder $4
Action - Attack

Reveal your hand. Discard all revealed Victory cards, then draw up to 5 cards in hand.

Each other player reveals the top 4 cards of his deck, discards the revealed non-Victory cards, discards a card per revealed Victory card, then puts the revealed Victory cards into his hand.

Quote
Erratic Engineer $4
Action

Gain a card costing up to $3.
______________________________

While this is in play, cards cost $1 less this turn, but not less than $0.

Quote
Flying Machine $4
Action - Reaction

Choose one: +2 Cards or +3 Actions.
______________________________

When you discard this other than during a Clean-Up phase, you may set this aside. If you do, then at the start of your next turn, return it to your hand.

Quote
Demolition Team $4
Action - Reaction

Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Trash any number of them, then discard the rest.

When you gain this or play it, each other player may reveal the top card of his deck and trash it or discard it.
______________________________

At the start of your turn, you may trash this from your hand.

Quote
Assistant $4
Action

+1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy

Play any number of Treasure cards from your hand.

Quote
Construction Yard $4
Action

+1 Buy

If you have 2 or fewer cards in hand, +$3. Otherwise, +$2.

Quote
Freight Train $5
Action - Reaction

Draw up to 7 cards in hand.
______________________________

At the start of your turn, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, discard any number of cards.

Quote
Femme Fatale $5
Action - Attack

+1 Card, +1 Action

Each other player discards a card, then each player (including you) draws up to 3 cards in hand.

Quote
Impulsive Inventor $5
Action

+1 Action

Trash an Action card from your hand. Gain an Action card costing up to $2 more; put it into your hand.

Quote
Rickety Contraption $6
Action

+4 Cards, +1 Action

Discard one card per Rickety Contraption in play (including this one).

Quote
Mad Mechanic $6
Action

Do this three times: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1. (Each choice can be picked more than once.)

Quote
Future Machine $7
Action - Reaction

If this is the first time you played a Future Machine this turn, discard your hand. If you discarded any cards this way, +10 Cards, +2 Actions and +1 Buy.
______________________________

When another player plays an Attack card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, take an extra turn immediately after that player’s turn. This can’t cause you to take more than two consecutive turns. At the start of Clean-Up on your next turn, trash this.

Quote
Saltpeter $0*
Treasure

Worth $3 and $1 less per Card in your hand, but not less than $0.
______________________________

At the start of your turn and during your turn (after you play, draw or discard a card) this costs $1 per card in your hand.

Quote
Territorial Borders $5
Victory

Worth 1VP for every Victory card with cost in coins equal to $8 or more in each other player’s deck.

Quote
Prodigy $6
Victory - Reaction

Worth 1VP for every 2 Reaction cards in your deck (rounded down).
______________________________

When any player plays an Action card, you may discard this. If you do, gain a copy of that card from the Supply; put it into your hand.

47
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Challenge (non-terminal drawer)
« on: August 24, 2012, 01:22:53 pm »
It'd be hilarious if I reveal a Gold and the player to the left reveals a Province at the same time. Or, if we are talking early game, I reveal a Copper and the player to the left reveals an Estate. Chancy! But I can potentially play a Steward or Trade Route on the same turn as this card, which could actually be pretty awesome and something Smithy couldn't do for me.

48
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: FBI - Fancy Balance Issues
« on: August 23, 2012, 02:51:16 pm »
Well, lab cost 5. 5 cost cards in general have fairly heavy competition. lab conflicts with terminal drawers so you have to worry about that. Lab also gets weaker during greening. So lab responds differently to different types of decks and has a lot of competition at the price point. It also enables engines in general which (usually) require harder decisions. So I fail to see why lab acts as a counterexample?
Well I figure that Lab is a card that doesn't have a lot of difficult decisions when it comes to buying it or playing it, but is still a fairly powerful card, so why avoid it? My opinion was that Lab is very strong and also not very nuanced, so it would be a no brainer to go and get Labs whenever (and also throw in Gold sometime of course). Seems that I am incorrect in this thinking though, so thanks everyone for humoring me.

49
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: FBI - Fancy Balance Issues
« on: August 23, 2012, 02:11:17 pm »
I think game-warping might be the wrong word here. Game warping is good, game trivializing is bad. It's also not just a function of power level. KC and Goons are both absurdly, absurdly powerful. But they still require interesting strategy in the game's where they are involved. 3 cost treasure-map may very well be weaker than goons... but it tends to lead to much more boring strategies. A card is game-destroying if it encourages strategies which don't require hard decisions. This is rather different than just plain strength.
This. This a hundred times.
So... if I may be humored, where would Laboratory sit?

For the most part there aren't really any difficult decisions to actually playing it; you play it to fetch 2 or you don't. You still have an Action left after playing it so you can keep going (maybe another Lab?), and it's usually better to have more cards than less so why not? It's usually a good idea to pick up a bunch of Labs as well, as Labs can't screw up other Labs and putting them in your own deck will deny them from others if that's really so important to you. Since Lab's got such a low baseline for working remarkably, it's not as though one has to do any special concessions or deck balancing to make them work optimally. You might overdraw eventually from too many Labs... but that's probably for the best, as the overdraw will let you brute force through green cards later.

50
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Clasic_Cards #31 - Overflowing Landfill
« on: August 21, 2012, 06:18:48 pm »
I like that more. At least players have a means of undoing combos or lockdowns if possible, although the other player could buy a Landfill before I get back to my turn to cover the Curses up again. Landfill in a game with Upgrade and Grand Market would be interesting :) Pretty much any non-terminal trasher could see some fun times with this.

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