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176

Dominion General Discussion / Re: How to play the "iconic" kingdom

« on: January 31, 2013, 08:08:43 pm »

Would throwing in a golem help? It gives you an extra wharf play. You'd probably manage to hit it every other turn at least, (and it doesn't stay pinned to your wharves), but of course you also have a junk potion floating around and your start slows down. Still, those extra two cards late game might be what you need to reach $16. Just a thought.

177

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Minotaur's card concept thread

« on: January 30, 2013, 01:36:01 pm »

Whoa Antarctica is way too powerful.

@NoMoreFun, no, it isnt a Peddler. Lucky Penny is a Treasure card.

Peddler gives you +$1, doesn't decrease your hand size or reduce the number of actions you can play. Lucky Penny does basically the same thing even though its a treasure. It's a little different (you can leave the card there, which is a bonus, but you can't draw an action with it) but is still more-or-less the same despite the fact that its a treasure. Same reasoning that a +1 action +$2 card is basically the same thing as a silver.

178

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Greatest Moments uhh... I mean Misclicks of Dominion 2013

« on: January 29, 2013, 03:42:19 pm »

HP + Conspirator game. I think we evenly split the hunting parties, but I start getting provinces a turn earlier so should be in line to win. A few turns later I have $2 and $5 in coins and one spare HP left and am like "eh, that's $8, already have all my green cards in my hand, might as well leave whatever is on the deck"

(then I drew SCCEE so all hopes at splitting the provinces were gone)

179

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Random city question

« on: January 29, 2013, 03:02:58 pm »

I mean, the card just refers to "one empty supply pile" and "two or more". So it makes sense that "level 2" refers to the "two or more" supply piles. It has nothing to do counting from zero, just the phrasing of the card.

180

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: What's Missing puzzle

« on: January 29, 2013, 02:57:47 pm »

What about Chapel?

You can trash four of the chapels. So you can still change game state more than just gaining a copper or silver.

Band of Misfits with lots of expensive cards for honorable mention, outpost, possession for semantics.

Smugglers and Counting House are both also honorable mention as then can be useless in certain scenarios. But won't outpost and possession always be able to do stuff if you draw a hand of five cards?

181

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Really bad card ideas

« on: January 29, 2013, 02:40:52 pm »

No Benefit
$1 - Action

+1 Card
Discard one card that is not a victory card.
+1 Action
The next action card played this turn takes two actions to play
+1 Buy
You may only buy one card this turn
+$1
-$1 for each +$1 received this turn via action card.

The +1 card / discard makes it marginally useful for cycling / enabling menageries or maybe multiple poor houses. The +1 action helps enable conspirators and is useful if played via throne room/golem/kings court/procession.

Other ones I'm not sure how they could potentially be useful but depending on the kingdom, "small benefit" is probably a better name =)

182

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Iron Maiden (an Iron family attack)

« on: January 28, 2013, 03:57:22 pm »

Comparing it to the other similar cards, I think the non-attack portion is a bit weak. I would suggest +2 cards or maybe even $2 +1 buy for a change.

Agreed, sure it can keep attacking longer, but it isn't guaranteed to do so. I'd put the attack about on par with the Witch. This has a few more combo opportunities and is more useful later in the game, but misses the chance on filling their hand with curses early.

Maybe +1 Card +$1 to be different, as "Attack +2 Cards" and "Attack +$2" have both already been done a few times and I think the +buy would make it too good.

183

Dominion General Discussion / Re: All Victory Card Kingdom

« on: January 23, 2013, 04:25:41 pm »

Is SR really the way to go here? You don't have any extra buy sources to get green cards fast, or three pile before BM starts hitting their 8. If you can't out rush 'em, you need 8 SR + 8 GH + 4 estates = 17 turns spent buying green cards to counter BMs 8 turns spent buying green cards (tunnels don't help much more than GH, given you can't activate them and the real VP sources is the SR). So the BM player 8 extra turns to build their economy up, which seems like plenty of time.

I'm thinking BM with some islands at the start and maybe a few harem's is probably the way to go.

184

2012 / Re: 2012 DominionStrategy.com Championships: Final Four

« on: January 21, 2013, 01:23:07 pm »

Rather impressive that three of the top four ranked people made the final four. Guess the Iso ranking is pretty accurate and 7 games is long enough to weed out most of the luck factor =)

185

Game Reports / Re: Fairgrounds with 37 different cards.

« on: January 18, 2013, 05:02:41 pm »

Now try and hit 68 (10 starting cards + bane, The entire BM deck, Madman, Mercenary, 9 extra knights, 5 ruins, 5 prizes, 4 standard victory cards, 4 standard treasures, potion, spoils and curse... am I missing anything?)

186

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Variant: One last turn....

« on: January 14, 2013, 05:17:02 pm »

I'll bet under these rules P1 still wins >50% of the time with equal skill.

Here's an even simpler rule to mitigate P1 advantage:
On a tie the player with the highest starting position wins.

Looking at iso stats you can see whatvthe effect of this is:
Take all your ties as P2 and make them wins. Take all your ties as P1 and make them losses.
The result is the win rate is still sugnificantly higher for P1.

I'll bet changing the end conditions does the same thing.

When P1 wins with 1 point, it gives the game to P2. If he takes the last province and wins by 4+ he likely wins the game. Mega turns its unclear.


With small sample size I'll bet it will be touch to know the effect. Maybe Doug can create a variant on iso. If enough people play it over time we could see what the effect is...

Ed

You can't really say "Look at how these games would play out under ruleset a), they would play out exactly the same under ruleset b)". Its probably true that this probably would still be player 1 advantage, but with P2 knowing they can win if they force the tie their turn you'd probably see their winning percentage go up more than just "ties become wins".

187

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dirty way to decide on platinum/ shelter use

« on: January 10, 2013, 02:15:41 pm »

If you want the choices for colony/shelters to actually be independent, you need to do two picks (with replacement)- if you only do one, since no card is from both prosperity and dark ages, you are more likely to get one or the other, but you never get both.

The rulebook for Prosperty says look at the first one, the rulebook for Dark Ages says pick the last one, so they are not supposed to be independent.

Also you're slightly more likely to get both, both also more likely to get neither, if you don't replace the card you selected for Prosperity before selecting the DA card. (If I have nine cards from Propserty and one from Dark Ages and do not replace my selection, then every game with Shelters must also have Platinum and I have 1/10 odds of that event occurring. If I do replace my selection, the odds drop to 9/100)

Actually, they both just say to use the proportion of cards from the set to determine - the top and bottom things are only examples. If you follow strictly to the proportion, i.e. if you assume you want the chances for each are exactly the same as the proportion of kingdom cards from the set, then you need to do the replacement thing.
But I don't think there's really a 'supposed to' going on here.

If you have P prosperity cards and D dark ages cards, both ways will let you play with Platinum P*10% of the time and shelters D*10% of the dime and so are "proportional".  They don't say if the events should be independent or not, but given the example implies non-independent events that's what I'd figure the 'proper' way of doing this is.

188

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Idea! with Curse pile

« on: January 09, 2013, 06:44:09 pm »

I had an idea that is similar to this,

Cursed Treasure Box
$5
Action
+1 card
+1 action
+1 buy
You may gain a Curse to your hand. If you do,
+1 card
+$2

It hasn't really been playtested, but that's what I've come up with.

Gained Curse shouldn't go into your hand. Makes it too powerful with a TFB card. Also without a way to return curses, this is likely going to turn into a moneyless market rather fast.

189

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Dirty way to decide on platinum/ shelter use

« on: January 09, 2013, 06:34:46 pm »

If you want the choices for colony/shelters to actually be independent, you need to do two picks (with replacement)- if you only do one, since no card is from both prosperity and dark ages, you are more likely to get one or the other, but you never get both.

The rulebook for Prosperty says look at the first one, the rulebook for Dark Ages says pick the last one, so they are not supposed to be independent.

Also you're slightly more likely to get both, both also more likely to get neither, if you don't replace the card you selected for Prosperity before selecting the DA card. (If I have nine cards from Propserty and one from Dark Ages and do not replace my selection, then every game with Shelters must also have Platinum and I have 1/10 odds of that event occurring. If I do replace my selection, the odds drop to 9/100)

190

Rules Questions / Re: Moat - Can it block multible attacks from same player?

« on: January 08, 2013, 04:33:22 pm »

Just to be clear, you can reveal all reaction cards that say "when you are attacked" in any order and multiple times.

Technically, no reaction cards say "when you are attacked," and technically, you can't reveal Horse Traders or Beggar more than once

If your draw pile is empty you can reveal beggar, discard it, reveal secret chamber, draw silver, shuffle, draw beggar, discard two other cards and reveal beggar a second time, no?

191

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Online Innovation

« on: January 07, 2013, 07:09:33 pm »

Innovation is far less replayable than Dominion. Its fun to build up your board, experience the higher level dogma effects, and play every once in a while but its not the kind of game you want to play several games in a row of or even more than a couple of times a week.

192

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Online Innovation

« on: January 03, 2013, 05:10:22 pm »

Another thing that would be nice: when it says "meld all cards", you should be able to put them in order, rather than clicking on one (which then counterintuitively puts it at the bottom of the pile).  I just lost what would have been a thrilling comeback due to this

If I'm "melding all cards" I would expect the first card I click on to get melded first. But maybe that's just me. I imagine the "putting them in order" might get a little weird with the different colors.

Oh okay, yeah that makes sense. It should show you the dogma effect in a red rectangle at the top right of your screen, but its really easy to miss that.
Maybe the better way to put it would be to prompt: "What do you want to meld first", as opposed to "What do you want to meld".  I didn't realize that Classification wanted me to meld two cards, just thought it wanted one to meld.


oooh. looks like doug added a warning icon that appears when you hover over a card whose dogma effect the another player can share. nice touch

193

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Online Innovation

« on: January 03, 2013, 02:10:55 pm »

Another thing that would be nice: when it says "meld all cards", you should be able to put them in order, rather than clicking on one (which then counterintuitively puts it at the bottom of the pile).  I just lost what would have been a thrilling comeback due to this

If I'm "melding all cards" I would expect the first card I click on to get melded first. But maybe that's just me. I imagine the "putting them in order" might get a little weird with the different colors.

194

Innovation General Discussion / Re: Online Innovation

« on: January 02, 2013, 06:34:41 pm »

One issue I noticed is that it's a lot easier to shoot yourself in the foot with this than dominion. If you play IRL you can be like "I'm going to play this card. Oh wait, you also have seven crowns? Nevermind I'll do something else". But here its just like "nope now your screwed"

(no real way to fix this other than being more careful. Its still fun and awesome and such. It just takes a little more focus to play than dominion)

195

Rules Questions / Re: Can I count the number of cards in my opponent's deck? + others

« on: January 02, 2013, 01:42:41 pm »

You cannot count the number of cards in your opponents deck. I believe Trisha provided an explanation for why Goko shows it, it's basically to do with the difference between computer and IRL interfaces. With discards, yes, the number you discard is usually public knowledge (I can't think of any exceptions right now) but only the top card has to be visible.

With Storehouse, if you were both being cautious about not revealing more than you had to but both keeping each other honest, you'd probably show the number of cards you're discarding with their backs to your opponent, put them together and into the discard pile (showing the top card, which your opponent could then examine) then draw up, and do it again.

Well I mean, in an IRL game you can judge the rough size of the draw pile and I suppose if you're really good, tell how many cards are in it. Getting actual counts would slow the game down though where as it doesn't really hurt on Goko. (The Iso method of just showing a continuous bar would also work, but that also isn't visually appealing enough for Goko)

196

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Forfeit (Treasure)

« on: December 20, 2012, 08:03:54 pm »

Cards that let you trash in play cards sound dangerous given there are ways to pull cards out of the trash. I'm not convinced that with clever use of counterfeits, procession, kings court, BM and grave robber you can't use this to have an infinite turn.

How does it works? Please give me an example. If it's possible then I have to change something although it's really unlikely to get such a combo started.

He doesn't have an example, he's just saying that you might be able to.  But Graverobber couldn't take King's Courts out of the trash, and if you played a Bridge-like card before hand you couldn't get the black market...

Good point, I had forgotten that KC cost too much to pull out of the trash. In that case you can't go infinitely as if you use throne rooms you can't get a net profit of cards from the trash (play throne room, play grave robber, save throne room, save grave robber...) With KC I wasn't able to convince myself it wasn't impossible.

197

Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Forfeit (Treasure)

« on: December 19, 2012, 03:04:53 pm »

Cards that let you trash in play cards sound dangerous given there are ways to pull cards out of the trash. I'm not convinced that with clever use of counterfeits, procession, kings court, BM and grave robber you can't use this to have an infinite turn.

198

Puzzles and Challenges / Re: The most valuable copper

« on: December 18, 2012, 07:26:24 pm »

My +90 solution required having 10 of everything, so isn't actually possible in a game. But I can at least get +84 legally

Deck: BoM, Procession, Throne Room, King's Court, Rouge, Grave Robber, Coppersmith, Scrying Pool, Worker's Village Watchtower. You have 9 copies of each, 10 of the throne rooms and King's Courts, only need the 1 Watchtower.

Start with WV, Scrying Pool in hand. Play WV, use Scrying Pool to draw all action cards.
Use Throne Room to play KC
First KC play, play Procession -> Coppersmith, Coppersmith, GR (save the coppersmiths)
Second KC play, Play BoM(as Procession) -> Coppersmith, Coppersmith, Rouge (save the coppersmiths, TD with WT)

That plays the coppersmiths 8 times each. The non-Coppersmith cards all get trashed or played but you have four coppersmiths sitting on your deck again and you still have 1 action from your WV. Another WV+ Scrying Pool draws them all and you can repeat this process 8 times for +64, then once more playing six coppersmiths instead of the GR/Rouges for +12 more or +76. You still have 3 spare coppersmiths in your hand. With your final action, use your extra throne room / king's court to play six more coppersmiths. +84. Your coppers are worth 85 and you have 10 buy.

Just need to optimize it by three in order to fulfill "Piledrive 8 colonies with a single copper as your only source of income". Hopefully someone can figure out where my solution is lacking.

So that's +84. With a little more optimization a single copper gives you enough to piledrive the colonies. (Of course, this doesn't generate any buy

199

Dominion: Guilds Previews / Re: First small Guilds Spoiler

« on: December 17, 2012, 07:41:48 pm »

Those were all Bands of Misfits.  Now Throne Room 9 of the real Coppersmiths to give you 69.

Throne room your king's court
First KC play, play Procession -> Coppersmith, Coppersmith, GR (save the coppersmiths)
Second KC play, Play BoM(as Procession) -> Coppersmith, Coppersmith, Rouge (save the coppersmiths, TD with WT)

That's +8, and all the Coppersmiths are still in your hand. You can do this 10 times, for +80, then play all your Coppersmiths (as none of them finish in the trash) on their own for +90.

Can optimize a little. The last few passes you could Procession another coppersmith, as otherwise you'd only be able to play it once. Should probably be able to get to +93 or +94.

Now I'm interested to see what the maximum is...

200

Dominion General Discussion / Re: Haggler/Mandarin

« on: December 17, 2012, 04:46:11 pm »

Horn of Plenty lets you do it for quite long (not indefinitely as finally Mandarins will run out and this will happen before you get all the Provinces in 3-player games or when your opponent buys Mandarins) as long as there are 5 different treasures available - so you need either Platinum (with added bonus that you can buy a Colony this way), Potion or another kingdom card that is a treasure. This is covered in this solo challenge: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5471.0

Counterfeit doesn't need five different treasures, you just need more gold. Probably a little easier to pull off though (would've done it one game but there were attacks that made you discard)