No, I wouldn't buy any green cards. Perhaps I just have different experiences with generally powerful boards available when I play, I just start prefering Hunting party to Peddler when my deck starts to get strong.
I just had a chance to test this today on isotropic - I vaguely remembered just the title of this post (I hadn't read it yet)...and I confess I didn't really understand how it was supposed to work until turn 2...then I was like "ooooh - you always get to return the treasuries because you just feed your bishop(s) an $4/$6 non-victory card". I picked up the last province in the game to seal a 1-point win over an oppoent who (I think) was rated at least 10 over me. Not overwhelming, but I think I didn't really play it quite the right way...so it may speak to the efficacy of the combo that even with substandard play, it can squeak out a win.
Here are a few random thoughts on the subject:
I think you need some flavor of +buy and +actions to go along with this. 1 Bishop and one $6-card at the end of a treasury chain will yield 4VP/turn. That feels a bit slow for how long the combo takes to set up - I elected to throw a couple villages and an extra bishop in the mix: thus the need for the +buy (1 more Bishop to feed means I need to pick up one more card). In my game, I was forced to use Salvager as my +buy, which is something I would probably never do again since it "eats" one of the cards I should be feeding to the bishop...DOH!...my opponent let me pick up all 10 treasuries - so my chain with both bishops produced $12 and 2 buys (but I could only use the +buy on alternating turns b/c of the salvager problem). I would definitely play this combo again, but I think I would just stick with 6 treasuries and one bishop this time. Another thing to worry about with this is that the repeated bishop play is going to speed up your opponent's BM-Province rush considerably. When you get this whole engine smoothed out, I guess you get to pick 5 cards that aren't Treasuries - In a perfect world I think I would pick (Worker's Village - Bishop - Bishop - Gold - Gold)...which would produce 8VP/turn. If your opponent denies you a few treasuries, you might have to fall back on - Gold - Silver instead. As mentioned above, I think this combo is extremely fragile and vulnerable to most attacks - I probably wouldn't play it if there were any good ones on the board and I would load up on attacks if I saw my opponent angling for this. That being said, it was fun to play and I'd definitely try this again (albeit somewhat differently).
Only six Treasuries?? I don't buy nearly that many, I think 6 is too much. To make it work you have lots of other stuff on your to-do list, gotta get some plus buy, gotta get some +actions and a second Bishop, gotta get enough money to afford 12$ a turn (Treasury does help with this, but buying Golds or Lab-types can help faster)
Going lighter on Treasuries could also give you more viability against attacks. If you stick to 1-2 Treasuries you can see other cards for discarding, and you can rely on a thin deck's ability to do some attacking yourself, every turn.
Vineyard - I love this card, too. I will go after it exclusivley when there's a hamlet, pawn, crossroads or other cheap potion card (even transmute) on the board with it. I'll give it a serious look even when one of those cards isn't there, but there's some other +buy or mixed action/VP on the table.
How many silvers/potions should you pick up when you are going after Vines? I usually take a +buy, 2/3 silvers, an optional attack and 2 potions in that order. Should I skip golds or grab a couple before I dive back down on the Vines?
I'm not an expert on Vineyard, but my understanding is that you usually want more Potions than that, especially when +Buy is around, which is when Vineyard really shines anyway. Extra Potions don't hurt a deck that only cares about Vineyards, Pawns, and Hamlets (for example), but every hand without a Potion in the mid- or late-game is an opportunity for your opponent to catch up.
I'm also not an expert on Vineyards, but I think you are correct. I had a game this week with 3 Potions for Vineyards, and they didn't felt as being to much. The thing is, even when you build an engine, the VY are your primary source of VPs and worth about as much as a Province. Every engine would be happy to pick up treasures that gives +8$, especially for the cost of $4. So you should also be happy to pick up Potions.
You basically don't need (much) Gold often, because your target are the low-costing actions anyway, some of these actions sometimes also give money, and you often don't want to spend more than $10(+some Potions) anyway. Of course, look at the board, if there are GMs and Markets that you want you maybe want some more coins in the beginning, but if you target for Hamlet, Schemes and Oasis maybe you don't want any Gold at all.
Maybe you also want to be able to reach for Provinces to end the game when it's in your favour, so some money is ok, but usually you don't need that much of it.
is it ever worth it to buy nothing with 4 on a hunting party stack game? or more specifically, when is adding silver worse than nothing?
Scrying pool – I had a hard time with this card too, this article helped though http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3218.0
Menagerie – Always an ok buy in my books, be aware that Inn and hamlet can make menagerie crazy (discard your duplicates to trigger)
Hunting Party – In a colony game, buy 1 platinum, 1 silver, 1 gold and as many HP's as you can (Platinum+Gold+Silver+Copper=11) In a province game you can go for (Gold+Silver+Copper+Terminal Silver) so a conspirator or a swindler or a miltia work nicely, you can also hope to draw it off the massive HP stack you hope to have, but its a little bit more reliable IMO if you can get a terminal silver that is unique. Also dont be afraid to buy estates a little bit earlier as they don't weaken HP's
Farmland – I feel most people have covered the value here, its a one time remodel with 2vp, if you would remodel a card in your hand (gold-->prov) and have 6 or are observing the PPR and can generate more vp from this than a duchy, do it.
Sea Hag – The only time I can think of ignoring sea hag is a board with lookout (strongly counters sea hag) or chapel, remake some other strong trashers
Potion - Depends how many potion cards are playable, if scrying pool or familiar or alchemist are around they have potential to dominate games, in these cases its worth going potion, (Also transmute with dual type cards [Island, Great Hall]) Similarily Golem and Possession can be important but you want to hold off on that potion till your second or third shuffle
King's Court - JoaT/Govenor reasonably quick games are going to eat half the provinces while your still setting up KC (assuming a province game a colony game ups KC's value) othertimes KC isn't good is when you get a very very meh board of terminals, (even cantrips are villages with KC)
This is my take anyways
I feel like I am finally emerging from my beginner's dominion coccoon. I went through the same stages I think everyone goes through (Village Idiot -> Big Money Bot -> Engine Junkie) and I have learned the appropriate lessons along the way. Overall, it is just an incredibly fun game that I can't enough of, but I feel that my understanding of a few key cards is holding me back a little bit. I am looking for synopses and/or general pointers on the following cards and how they work if anyone would care to offer:
Scrying pool – I think this card is the one I have the biggest “understanding gap” with. I get pounded by this card when I don’t buy it and pounded when I do. On the surface it seems to be a card that requires some +actions and good trashing with a couple really good terminals to set up, but overall I feel that I still don’t really “get” this card.
Menagerie – It works like a lab on roids if you can pull it with no duplicates in your hand, right? But how does one go about doing that? It seems like especially in the endgame, this card should sputter and die with multiple-province hands, but my opponents seem to keep it going. How do you play this card?
Hunting Party – I feel like I’m finally starting to understand this guy a little bit – just load up on it and stay away from duchies and it works like a fine-tuned laboratory, right? The really awesome players seem to know the secret sauce for creating the best “balance” of cards to go along with a hunting party deck. Can anyone explain some rules of thumb along those lines? (e.g. How many silvers/golds do you buy? What terminal actions is it worth taking?)
Farmland – What is the point of this card? I can’t think of any price point where this card makes sense to me – If I have $6 and I’m playing Money, why would I not buy a gold instead of this…if I’m going for an engine, why would I ever want a 2VP card mucking up my works? If it’s the endgame and I have $14 and an extra +buy, why would I not take a Duchy instead of this?
Sea Hag – Is there ever a viable way around opening with this? I just reflexively buy it when I open with $4, but I loathe Sea Hag games.
Golem - I won a couple games by taking this every time a potion comes up and exactly 2 of some other heavy-handed terminal (Goons once and Embassy the other time). Is that the way it's best played?
Potion - Is there a good rubric for when / when not to buy this? I feel like when I'm playing with more experienced players and I pass up potions, they end up walloping me with Alchemy cards and I need to develop a better sense of what games to go for these in and on what turn.
King's Court - Is there ever a reliable way not to buy this when it's on the board and win? It seems that even "meh"-inducing terminals become pretty beefy when they get KCd. The worst is drawing 2-3 of them in a clump with no other actions - any general guidelines for how to buy them when you are playing Money and/or Engine?
Quickies:
Scrying pool: you want something with +buy, and probably some cantrips. Trashing isn't strictly necessary, but encouraged.
Menagerie: buy it, but probably not on turns 1/2.
Farmland: Buy it with a curse in hand for net 4vp. Buy it with a farmland in hand for net 4vp. Buy it with a sea hag in hand for 4vp. Buy it with a gold in hand for 8vp. Buy it with a silver in hand for 5vp that doesn't end the game because you are behind and there's only 1 or 2 provinces left.
Sea hag: buy it. There are some cases when you can ignore it, but if I had to provide a recommendation with 1 sentence... buy it.
Golem: Situational. There's some cool stuff you can do with this, but its a little slow to set up, and can cause problems if you're not careful Don't open potion if this is the only thing on the board.
Potion: Buy it when familiar is on the board (most days). Think about it when alchemist, apothecary or scrying pool are on. Really think about it if there are more than 1 cards that require potion - except trasmute.
King's Court - frequently too slow for province games. Of course - if you're not playing top tier opposition who can speed rush a game down, then KC is going to look dominant.
Hunting Party: Buy the following: 1 Gold, 1 Terminal Silver, as many silvers as you need to, as many hunting parties as you can. Don't buy duchies until the very very end. I will frequently also pass province for an extra hunting party if we aren't rushing yet. Be VERY careful about anything that draws cards - you can destroy your deck by doing this: Hunting Party, Hunting Party, Hunting Party , Hunting Party , Hunting Party , Hunting Party (now your discard consists of a whole bunch of coppers, estates, (hopefully provinces), and your draw pile is empty. If you play a Market right there... you're going to guarantee that you next turn is going to be junk. Ideally you end the turn knowing that you either have: one or more hunting parties remaining in your deck and you just bought a hunting party or a province, or 0 cards left in deck, and you hope to draw hunting parties in your starting hand.
