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[bkdominion]

I feel like I am finally emerging from my beginner's dominion coccoon.  I went through the same stages I think everyone goes through (Village Idiot -> Big Money Bot -> Engine Junkie) and I have learned the appropriate lessons along the way.  Overall, it is just an incredibly fun game that I can't enough of, but I feel that my understanding of a few key cards is holding me back a little bit.  I am looking for synopses and/or general pointers on the following cards and how they work if anyone would care to offer:

Scrying pool – I think this card is the one I have the biggest “understanding gap” with.  I get pounded by this card when I don’t buy it and pounded when I do.  On the surface it seems to be a card that requires some +actions and good trashing with a couple really good terminals to set up, but overall I feel that I still don’t really “get” this card.
Menagerie – It works like a lab on roids if you can pull it with no duplicates in your hand, right?  But how does one go about doing that?  It seems like especially in the endgame, this card should sputter and die with multiple-province hands, but my opponents seem to keep it going.  How do you play this card?
Hunting Party – I feel like I’m finally starting to understand this guy a little bit – just load up on it and stay away from duchies and it works like a fine-tuned laboratory, right?  The really awesome players seem to know the secret sauce for creating the best “balance” of cards to go along with a hunting party deck.  Can anyone explain some rules of thumb along those lines? (e.g. How many silvers/golds do you buy?  What terminal actions is it worth taking?)   
Farmland – What is the point of this card?  I can’t think of any price point where this card makes sense to me – If I have $6 and I’m playing Money, why would I not buy a gold instead of this…if I’m going for an engine, why would I ever want a 2VP card mucking up my works?  If it’s the endgame and I have $14 and an extra +buy, why would I not take a Duchy instead of this?
Sea Hag – Is there ever a viable way around opening with this?  I just reflexively buy it when I open with $4, but I loathe Sea Hag games.
Golem - I won a couple games by taking this every time a potion comes up and exactly 2 of some other heavy-handed terminal (Goons once and Embassy the other time).  Is that the way it's best played?
Potion - Is there a good rubric for when / when not to buy this?  I feel like when I'm playing with more experienced players and I pass up potions, they end up walloping me with Alchemy cards and I need to develop a better sense of what games to go for these in and on what turn.
King's Court -  Is there ever a reliable way not to buy this when it's on the board and win?  It seems that even "meh"-inducing terminals become pretty beefy when they get KCd.  The worst is drawing 2-3 of them in a clump with no other actions - any general guidelines for how to buy them when you are playing Money and/or Engine?

[Eevee]

King's Court -  Is there ever a reliable way not to buy this when it's on the board and win?  It seems that even "meh"-inducing terminals become pretty beefy when they get KCd.  The worst is drawing 2-3 of them in a clump with no other actions - any general guidelines for how to buy them when you are playing Money and/or Engine?

You dont want any when you are playing money. That being said, KC basicly enables an engine so..

[bkdominion]

Thanks, Eevee - I think that's the question I'm really getting at;  Is there a realistic situation where KC is on the board, but you decide to Money despite it's presence?

[shark_bait]

Golem - This really helps out engines.  It is makes them possible without a village if there are cantrips that you want to spam.  It is also a counter to top decking attacks, most notably are Ghost Ship and Rabble.  This card is obviously better if there is another lower cost potion card to get if you miss $4P.  But in some games, it is still worth it if it is the only potion card.

[brokoli]

Farmland : In a hand of Gold - Gold - Silver - Copper, you can turn your gold into province (play gold, silver and copper, buy farmland, trash your gold and gain a province). After that, you can turn your farmland into province. In the end game, you can buy a farmland, trash a silver and gain a duchy (5 VP in one turn).
Farmland is somehow a delayed province.

Hunting party : http://dominionstrategy.com/2012/01/09/combo-of-the-day-27-hunting-partyx/

[Eevee]

Thanks, Eevee - I think that's the question I'm really getting at;  Is there a realistic situation where KC is on the board, but you decide to Money despite it's presence?

Yeah it happens, some boards are just still very very weak.

[Robz888]

Unless you are way, way over-Greened, Menagerie isn't going to sputter out in the end game. The more "variance" you have in your deck, the better Menagerie will be. This means Menagerie is almost always a bad opening buy, because your deck is totally un-varied: 7 Coppers and 3 Estates. But add in a few Silvers, some Engine pieces, 2 Golds, and then the Provinces are actually increasing your variance unless you have a million of them, in which case you win.

[chwhite]

Thanks, Eevee - I think that's the question I'm really getting at;  Is there a realistic situation where KC is on the board, but you decide to Money despite it's presence?

Boring boards mostly- Province games with no attacks or +buy, especially those with good Treasures, are the best situations for skipping it.  Strategies like Fool's Gold rushes, or Masquerade-BM don't need a KC.  It's pretty rare that I skip King's Court, but it does happen.  (Unlike, say, Goons, which I will go for almost no matter what.)

As for skipping Sea Hag, the biggest thing to look out for is good trashing.  Masquerade and Lookout are especially potent here, since top-decking the curse means they can zap it immediately.  Also, Ambassador, which is better at passing out junk than the Hag, and Chapel/Remake are both often strong enough to deal with the curses too.

Farmland: the canonical price point is $9, actually.  Play $6, and Farmland a Gold into a Province.  There are other uses, too, Farmland is a card I actually avoid fairly frequently but it's something you usually should keep in mind while greening.

Hunting Party: Generally only one silver and only one gold if your early-game hands allow you to get away with that.  The best terminals to go with a focused HP stack are those which give you things like cash and +buy, and attacks are good too.  Card draw isn't, because it can cause unwanted reshuffles.  Things like Militia, Baron, Mountebank, Goons are golden here (though if there are Villages too you'll probably want to build up to multi-Goons); I'm sure you'll be able to figure out more.  And of course, sometimes HP can be part of a larger engine- but the stack is a good place to start.

Menagerie: Trashing is key, especially copper trashing.  Buying a wider variety of cards helps, though you want to make sure the cards have some other function in your deck too.  Cards that let you sift, or discard for a benefit, are especially potent in Menagerie decks- Hamlet and Warehouse are the gold standard, because they offer more control and don't require extra +Actions.

[Captain_Frisk]

I feel like I am finally emerging from my beginner's dominion coccoon.  I went through the same stages I think everyone goes through (Village Idiot -> Big Money Bot -> Engine Junkie) and I have learned the appropriate lessons along the way.  Overall, it is just an incredibly fun game that I can't enough of, but I feel that my understanding of a few key cards is holding me back a little bit.  I am looking for synopses and/or general pointers on the following cards and how they work if anyone would care to offer:

Scrying pool – I think this card is the one I have the biggest “understanding gap” with.  I get pounded by this card when I don’t buy it and pounded when I do.  On the surface it seems to be a card that requires some +actions and good trashing with a couple really good terminals to set up, but overall I feel that I still don’t really “get” this card.
Menagerie – It works like a lab on roids if you can pull it with no duplicates in your hand, right?  But how does one go about doing that?  It seems like especially in the endgame, this card should sputter and die with multiple-province hands, but my opponents seem to keep it going.  How do you play this card?
Hunting Party – I feel like I’m finally starting to understand this guy a little bit – just load up on it and stay away from duchies and it works like a fine-tuned laboratory, right?  The really awesome players seem to know the secret sauce for creating the best “balance” of cards to go along with a hunting party deck.  Can anyone explain some rules of thumb along those lines? (e.g. How many silvers/golds do you buy?  What terminal actions is it worth taking?)   
Farmland – What is the point of this card?  I can’t think of any price point where this card makes sense to me – If I have $6 and I’m playing Money, why would I not buy a gold instead of this…if I’m going for an engine, why would I ever want a 2VP card mucking up my works?  If it’s the endgame and I have $14 and an extra +buy, why would I not take a Duchy instead of this?
Sea Hag – Is there ever a viable way around opening with this?  I just reflexively buy it when I open with $4, but I loathe Sea Hag games.
Golem - I won a couple games by taking this every time a potion comes up and exactly 2 of some other heavy-handed terminal (Goons once and Embassy the other time).  Is that the way it's best played?
Potion - Is there a good rubric for when / when not to buy this?  I feel like when I'm playing with more experienced players and I pass up potions, they end up walloping me with Alchemy cards and I need to develop a better sense of what games to go for these in and on what turn.
King's Court -  Is there ever a reliable way not to buy this when it's on the board and win?  It seems that even "meh"-inducing terminals become pretty beefy when they get KCd.  The worst is drawing 2-3 of them in a clump with no other actions - any general guidelines for how to buy them when you are playing Money and/or Engine?

Quickies:

Scrying pool: you want something with +buy, and probably some cantrips.  Trashing isn't strictly necessary, but encouraged.
Menagerie: buy it, but probably not on turns 1/2.
Farmland: Buy it with a curse in hand for net 4vp.  Buy it with a farmland in hand for net 4vp.  Buy it with a sea hag in hand for 4vp. Buy it with a gold in hand for 8vp.  Buy it with a silver in hand for 5vp that doesn't end the game because you are behind and there's only 1 or 2 provinces left.
Sea hag: buy it.  There are some cases when you can ignore it, but if I had to provide a recommendation with 1 sentence... buy it.
Golem: Situational.  There's some cool stuff you can do with this, but its a little slow to set up, and can cause problems if you're not careful  Don't open potion if this is the only thing on the board.
Potion: Buy it when familiar is on the board (most days).  Think about it when alchemist, apothecary or scrying pool are on.  Really think about it if there are more than 1 cards that require potion - except trasmute.
King's Court - frequently too slow for province games.  Of course - if you're not playing top tier opposition who can speed rush a game down, then KC is going to look dominant.
Hunting Party: Buy the following: 1 Gold, 1 Terminal Silver, as many silvers as you need to, as many hunting parties as you can.  Don't buy duchies until the very very end.  I will frequently also pass province for an extra hunting party if we aren't rushing yet.  Be VERY careful about anything that draws cards - you can destroy your deck by doing this:  Hunting Party, Hunting Party, Hunting Party , Hunting Party , Hunting Party , Hunting Party (now your discard consists of a whole bunch of coppers, estates, (hopefully provinces), and your draw pile is empty.  If you play a Market right there... you're going to guarantee that you next turn is going to be junk.  Ideally you end the turn knowing that you either have: one or more hunting parties remaining in your deck and you just bought a hunting party or a province, or 0 cards left in deck, and you hope to draw hunting parties in your starting hand.

[brokoli]

Buy it with a farmland in hand for net 4vp.

6vp.

[Captain_Frisk]

Buy it with a farmland in hand for net 4vp.

6vp.

Doh!

[bkdominion]

I feel like I am finally emerging from my beginner's dominion coccoon.  I went through the same stages I think everyone goes through (Village Idiot -> Big Money Bot -> Engine Junkie) and I have learned the appropriate lessons along the way.  Overall, it is just an incredibly fun game that I can't enough of, but I feel that my understanding of a few key cards is holding me back a little bit.  I am looking for synopses and/or general pointers on the following cards and how they work if anyone would care to offer:

Scrying pool – I think this card is the one I have the biggest “understanding gap” with.  I get pounded by this card when I don’t buy it and pounded when I do.  On the surface it seems to be a card that requires some +actions and good trashing with a couple really good terminals to set up, but overall I feel that I still don’t really “get” this card.
Menagerie – It works like a lab on roids if you can pull it with no duplicates in your hand, right?  But how does one go about doing that?  It seems like especially in the endgame, this card should sputter and die with multiple-province hands, but my opponents seem to keep it going.  How do you play this card?
Hunting Party – I feel like I’m finally starting to understand this guy a little bit – just load up on it and stay away from duchies and it works like a fine-tuned laboratory, right?  The really awesome players seem to know the secret sauce for creating the best “balance” of cards to go along with a hunting party deck.  Can anyone explain some rules of thumb along those lines? (e.g. How many silvers/golds do you buy?  What terminal actions is it worth taking?)   
Farmland – What is the point of this card?  I can’t think of any price point where this card makes sense to me – If I have $6 and I’m playing Money, why would I not buy a gold instead of this…if I’m going for an engine, why would I ever want a 2VP card mucking up my works?  If it’s the endgame and I have $14 and an extra +buy, why would I not take a Duchy instead of this?
Sea Hag – Is there ever a viable way around opening with this?  I just reflexively buy it when I open with $4, but I loathe Sea Hag games.
Golem - I won a couple games by taking this every time a potion comes up and exactly 2 of some other heavy-handed terminal (Goons once and Embassy the other time).  Is that the way it's best played?
Potion - Is there a good rubric for when / when not to buy this?  I feel like when I'm playing with more experienced players and I pass up potions, they end up walloping me with Alchemy cards and I need to develop a better sense of what games to go for these in and on what turn.
King's Court -  Is there ever a reliable way not to buy this when it's on the board and win?  It seems that even "meh"-inducing terminals become pretty beefy when they get KCd.  The worst is drawing 2-3 of them in a clump with no other actions - any general guidelines for how to buy them when you are playing Money and/or Engine?

Quickies:

Scrying pool: you want something with +buy, and probably some cantrips.  Trashing isn't strictly necessary, but encouraged.
Menagerie: buy it, but probably not on turns 1/2.
Farmland: Buy it with a curse in hand for net 4vp.  Buy it with a farmland in hand for net 4vp.  Buy it with a sea hag in hand for 4vp. Buy it with a gold in hand for 8vp.  Buy it with a silver in hand for 5vp that doesn't end the game because you are behind and there's only 1 or 2 provinces left.
Sea hag: buy it.  There are some cases when you can ignore it, but if I had to provide a recommendation with 1 sentence... buy it.
Golem: Situational.  There's some cool stuff you can do with this, but its a little slow to set up, and can cause problems if you're not careful  Don't open potion if this is the only thing on the board.
Potion: Buy it when familiar is on the board (most days).  Think about it when alchemist, apothecary or scrying pool are on.  Really think about it if there are more than 1 cards that require potion - except trasmute.
King's Court - frequently too slow for province games.  Of course - if you're not playing top tier opposition who can speed rush a game down, then KC is going to look dominant.
Hunting Party: Buy the following: 1 Gold, 1 Terminal Silver, as many silvers as you need to, as many hunting parties as you can.  Don't buy duchies until the very very end.  I will frequently also pass province for an extra hunting party if we aren't rushing yet.  Be VERY careful about anything that draws cards - you can destroy your deck by doing this:  Hunting Party, Hunting Party, Hunting Party , Hunting Party , Hunting Party , Hunting Party (now your discard consists of a whole bunch of coppers, estates, (hopefully provinces), and your draw pile is empty.  If you play a Market right there... you're going to guarantee that you next turn is going to be junk.  Ideally you end the turn knowing that you either have: one or more hunting parties remaining in your deck and you just bought a hunting party or a province, or 0 cards left in deck, and you hope to draw hunting parties in your starting hand.

Thank you for your advice.  That makes a lot of sense.

Re: Scrying Pool - Is a board full of cantrips a trigger for deciding to get scrying pool?  is the goal of getting the +buy to load up big on cantrips?

[Tombolo]

2P is an awkward amount of money to hit.  If you get 7P with a +Buy, you can get another Scrying Pool and a 5 instead of having to debate Scrying vs. Gold or something.

[Captain_Frisk]

Yep, the + buy is so that you can buy other engine components instead of only scrying pools.  The best case scenario is to get your deck to something that can nearly total deck draw - and then buy a province + scrying pool with 10p

[Insomniac]

Scrying pool – I had a hard time with this card too, this article helped though http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3218.0

Menagerie – Always an ok buy in my books, be aware that Inn and hamlet can make menagerie crazy (discard your duplicates to trigger)

Hunting Party – In a colony game, buy 1 platinum, 1 silver, 1 gold and as many HP's as you can (Platinum+Gold+Silver+Copper=11) In a province game you can go for (Gold+Silver+Copper+Terminal Silver) so a conspirator or a swindler or a miltia work nicely, you can also hope to draw it off the massive HP stack you hope to have, but its a little bit more reliable IMO if you can get a terminal silver that is unique.  Also dont be afraid to buy estates a little bit earlier as they don't weaken HP's

Farmland – I feel most people have covered the value here, its a one time remodel with 2vp, if you would remodel a card in your hand (gold-->prov) and have 6 or are observing the PPR and can generate more vp from this than a duchy, do it.

Sea Hag – The only time I can think of ignoring sea hag is a board with lookout (strongly counters sea hag) or chapel, remake some other strong trashers

Potion - Depends how many potion cards are playable, if scrying pool or familiar or alchemist are around they have potential to dominate games, in these cases its worth going potion, (Also transmute with dual type cards [Island, Great Hall]) Similarily Golem and Possession can be important but you want to hold off on that potion till your second or third shuffle

King's Court -  JoaT/Govenor reasonably quick games are going to eat half the provinces while your still setting up KC (assuming a province game a colony game ups KC's value) othertimes KC isn't good is when you get a very very meh board of terminals, (even cantrips are villages with KC)


This is my take anyways

[bkdominion]

Scrying pool – I had a hard time with this card too, this article helped though http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3218.0

Menagerie – Always an ok buy in my books, be aware that Inn and hamlet can make menagerie crazy (discard your duplicates to trigger)

Hunting Party – In a colony game, buy 1 platinum, 1 silver, 1 gold and as many HP's as you can (Platinum+Gold+Silver+Copper=11) In a province game you can go for (Gold+Silver+Copper+Terminal Silver) so a conspirator or a swindler or a miltia work nicely, you can also hope to draw it off the massive HP stack you hope to have, but its a little bit more reliable IMO if you can get a terminal silver that is unique.  Also dont be afraid to buy estates a little bit earlier as they don't weaken HP's

Farmland – I feel most people have covered the value here, its a one time remodel with 2vp, if you would remodel a card in your hand (gold-->prov) and have 6 or are observing the PPR and can generate more vp from this than a duchy, do it.

Sea Hag – The only time I can think of ignoring sea hag is a board with lookout (strongly counters sea hag) or chapel, remake some other strong trashers

Potion - Depends how many potion cards are playable, if scrying pool or familiar or alchemist are around they have potential to dominate games, in these cases its worth going potion, (Also transmute with dual type cards [Island, Great Hall]) Similarily Golem and Possession can be important but you want to hold off on that potion till your second or third shuffle

King's Court -  JoaT/Govenor reasonably quick games are going to eat half the provinces while your still setting up KC (assuming a province game a colony game ups KC's value) othertimes KC isn't good is when you get a very very meh board of terminals, (even cantrips are villages with KC)


This is my take anyways

Thanks - that's really good advice.

[ehunt]

just to hone in on KC,

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201205/28/game-20120528-003033-1cccc5e9.html

is a game where it was ignorable.

In general, though, KC is one of the few instances where players make the mistake of buying provinces too early rather than too late. If there's +buy and a way to draw cards - or a bad way to draw cards like wishing well, but light trashing, you prefer KC for quite a while to province.

[popsofctown]

Farmland is like a Harem that only can spend its money for Provinces, and that does something useful immediately when you buy it.

If you buy a Farmland, trash an Estate and turn it into a useful 4, you've replaced an estate with a 4$ card and a Silver with a restriction.  So it's kind of like you underspent your 6 on a 4 so you could turn an estate into a Silver that can only pay for Provinces.

Depends on the 4.  Much less useful card in sets with good trashing.

[rinkworks]

Hunting Party – I feel like I’m finally starting to understand this guy a little bit – just load up on it and stay away from duchies and it works like a fine-tuned laboratory, right?  The really awesome players seem to know the secret sauce for creating the best “balance” of cards to go along with a hunting party deck.  Can anyone explain some rules of thumb along those lines? (e.g. How many silvers/golds do you buy?  What terminal actions is it worth taking?) 

Figure that a deck full of Hunting Parties will put at least one copy of every card in your deck in your hand -- provided you don't have too many uniques!  So what you want to do is minimize how many uniques you have, plus take whatever measures you can to avoid spacing out the Hunting Parties too much.  Once they fire, density doesn't matter, because they'll just find each other, regardless of how junked up your deck is.  But density helps to get them to fire each turn.  So don't buy more money than you need.

The next important thing is to figure out what non-HP action to throw into the deck.  You just want one, and you probably don't want any other actions.  Pick something that will provide coins and/or attack, and preferably provide +Buy.  And does NOT draw cards.  Mountebank is great, but even something like Woodcutter is a good addition if there isn't anything better.

One easy-to-overlook superstar is Baron.  Since you can virtually guarantee an Estate in hand by the time you get to the end of your Hunting Party chain, Baron is as good as a vanilla +1 Buy, +$4!

[LastFootnote]

Farmland is like a Harem that only can spend its money for Provinces, and that does something useful immediately when you buy it.

If you buy a Farmland, trash an Estate and turn it into a useful 4, you've replaced an estate with a 4$ card and a Silver with a restriction.  So it's kind of like you underspent your 6 on a 4 so you could turn an estate into a Silver that can only pay for Provinces.

Depends on the 4.  Much less useful card in sets with good trashing.

Trashing Estates is almost never a worthwhile use of Farmland. Trashing early-game $4 cards to get Gold? Sure. Trashing a Curse for an Estate nets you 4 VP.

[Eevee]

is it ever worth it to buy nothing with 4 on a hunting party stack game? or more specifically, when is adding silver worse than nothing?

[Insomniac]

is it ever worth it to buy nothing with 4 on a hunting party stack game? or more specifically, when is adding silver worse than nothing?

I think it depends, If you've already got the stack going you probably don't want the silver as it thickens your deck lowering your chance of drawing HP in your 5 and also reduces the chance of drawing it on subsequent HPs. If you don't have a silver you want it for sure. If you aren't consistenly hitting 5 or don't yet have a gold and already picked up your terminal silver you can probably grab the silver but don't over silver.

I think.

[bkdominion]

is it ever worth it to buy nothing with 4 on a hunting party stack game? or more specifically, when is adding silver worse than nothing?

Good question: as a larger corollary question for all games - Is it ever worthwile to skip late/midgame $3-$5 buys?

[Rabid]

If it is late game you nearly always want a duchy for $5.
For a Money game Silver is better than nothing 99% of the time.
In an engine game, silver can be bad.

[eHalcyon]

Should you really limit the amount of Silver you pick up in a HP game?  The reasoning would be that extra Silver makes it more difficult to get a HP or two in your initial hand.  But other than that, extra Silver doesn't really hurt, and it can actually help in the late game.  If your HP sputters out before finding the next HP or your Gold, you might still make $8 with a couple of extra Silver drawn via the +1 card.