Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: LaLight on November 04, 2016, 04:17:55 pm
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Welcome to M89: Best Dominion Card Mafia by LaLight.
This game is for 12 players, and is an invented, closed setup designed by LaLight with the help of Faust and Mail-mi.
Co-mod:
Sign ups are open.
1. JakeTheBaseballGod22 Lynched D1 Vineyard, a Victory Card and a Vanilla Cop
2. GKrieg13
3. Roadrunner7671
4. Calamitas Killed N1 Ghost Ship, an Action Card and a Vanilla Townie
5. SpaceAnemone
6. McGarnacle EFHW Modkilled Treasure Trove, a Treasure Card and a Doctor
7. Idontplaythisgame
8. Lekkit Lynched D2 Cache, a Treasure Card and a Vanilla Townie
9. Dylan32 Modkilled Relic, a Treasure Card and a Jailkeeper
10. PingPongSam Killed N2 Familiar, an Action Card and a Tracker
11. Robz888
12. Eevee
Tags: Ashersky, Schadd, Archetype, Mail-mi, Silverspawn, Joseph2032
Game State Tracker:
Day 1 start || Day 1 end
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The Rules:
The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.
The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by your role QT.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Quoting of QTs is forbidden as well
5. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
6. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.
7. Players must post once every 24 hours.
8. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
9. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
10. Cryptography is not allowed.
11. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
12. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
13. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.
The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. Lynch rules vary by the number of players alive. With 10 or more players alive, the player with the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. Ties are broken by coin flip. With nine or fewer players alive, if a majority lynch is not reached by the deadline, no lynch occurs.
The Rest:
1. Bold, violet color text is reserved for the Mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please write to the Mod in your role QT. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently, especially because I am a new mod. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via your role QT. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 48 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
Deadlines:
1. Days will last seven IRL days.
2. Nights will last more than 36 hours but less than 48 hours.
3. Night action phase submission deadline will be 36 hours after the night begins.
This is pretty much normal game with normal roles with one exception: there’s 3 types of cards: Action, Treasure and Victory. The type has a real significance for all the PRs.
Everyone will have the QT, all the discussions with me will be there.
All the players have different flavor names, including VTs.
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One day, Chris and Ron bought that precious game called Dominion.
One day the boys realised that there could never be the game as good as that one.
They had always been really orderly, and never ever left the cards on the table.
But one day it changed...
"Chris! Ron! I'm home!" called Mr Trader coming into the house from the cold street. The boys gave up the game they were playing and went downstairs to see if their father had come home with some sweets.
"Dad, dad!" called little Chris, "This moron says that King's Court is much more skippable than people think!".
"Son, I don't have the time for your games. Gather your things, we're going to the lake. And quick! It's getting colder and I won't let you swim in cold water!"
"Swimming! Swimming!" cried Ron. He was quite a lovely boy of 9, who was keen on lakes, pools and all kinds of water. So, the boys ran to gather their things, and shortly went out to the lake.
The cards lay there for a while. Then a thin voice said: "Are they gone?". Another voice replied: "I think so!". Who were the voices, you may ask? Yes! That was a little Duchess and Duke, lying on the table, left by the kids. "What do we do now?" asked Duchess, almost crying.
"They have left us here! We could fall somewhere, or some big curse card might take us to its nest!".
"Don't cry, little Duchess!" another voice interrupted. It will be fine! They will come and put us back into our boxes! And for now..".
The voice never finished his sentence. A little gust of wind blew across the table. When all the cards finally stood up, they realised that Duchess was not on the table anymore. Everyone started to call her and cry aloud, but then the Ghost Ship saw something on the ground. That was a little note. "Everyone, COME HERE!!!" cried she. The cards gathered around the Ghost Ship.
"There's a note!"
"What does it say?"
"What's going on?"
"Where's Duchess?"
The Ghost Ship cried: "SILENCE! There are letters on this piece of paper! Who can read here?" Familiar took a step forward.
"I can!"
"So, what does it say?" asked the Ghost Ship, giving the note to him.
Familiar turned pale. He couldn't say a word. Everyone felt terrified. And then he told, with a trembling voice:
"THE DUCHESS IS TRASHED"
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First /in even though I have no clue what this is
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/in
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Hey Big G alright ;D ;D
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/in even though I have no clue what this is
[/quote]
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/in
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/in! :-)
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/tag
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/tag
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/tag
Looks pretty interesting!
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This game is pretty cool! LaLight did well. /tag
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:( I can't do it.
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I'll soon have more tagged players than ined :)
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/taggat\
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/in
Wow, this looks amazing!
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/in
#fim
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/in
#fim
#fim!
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5 empty slots, 5 tagged people.. hmm.. :)
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/tag
Also, another mafia game all about Scout?
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/tag
Also, another mafia game all about Scout?
Who knows, man, who knows... Until you try you won't know.
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/in
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/in
Welcome!
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Changed a setup post a little bit, the last sentence is added.
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/in
Welcome!
FYI, Lekkit is older school than me.
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/in
Welcome!
FYI, Lekkit is older school than me.
I know that and I welcome him in my game! :)
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I have a pretty bad track record, though. :P
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/tag
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/in
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/in so i can steal my hammer back from ashersky
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/in.
Also, I may have found a player for the last spot. He said he was interested, I just messaged him to tell him to join.
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/in.
Also, I may have found a player for the last spot. He said he was interested, I just messaged him to tell him to join.
In!
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/in.
Also, I may have found a player for the last spot. He said he was interested, I just messaged him to tell him to join.
In!
O_O
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Well now I'm even more excited for this game!
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Robz and Eevee... Not bad.
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Hm, I'll sub in if anyone wants out.
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Fuzzy!
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OHMYOHMYOHMY
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PMs will go out today.
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The last sentence in the setup added
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PMs are going out now. Thread locked except for tags.
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PMs are out. N0 starts now and ends in 24-36 hours.
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/tag why does this game have to be when I can't play?
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Ready to start. 1 more confirmation and we'll go.
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"What are we going to do? There are obviously some bad people who killed my little Duchess!" shouted Duke. "I want to find and punish them! Why are they doing this? What do they need?"
"I heard a legend once", told Familiar. "Some said there is a big hooman who makes rankings. And it's a big honor to be the first there!"
"Why did this even come in mind of yours? Why do you think this is the case?", asked Ghost Ship.
"Why else?"
Usually silent Counterfeit stood up. "I suppose we find this morons and tear them apart. Peace, people. We need peace."
"I'm for!" said Relic (they say Counterfeit trashed him once and since then they're in love).
"Let's do this!". And everyone started examining each other.
Vote Count 1.0
Not Voting (12): Dylan32, RoadRunner7671, Eevee, JakeTheBaseballGod22, Calamitas, Robz888, Pingpongsam, SpaceAnemone, IDontPlayThisGame, GKrieg13, McGarnacle, Lekkit
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday Nov 20 at 1 pm
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First!
Thanks for the warm welcome guys, I was excited to see so many familiar faces in the game.
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Hi guys! I'm excited to be playing with such a different crowd!
Vote: gkreig for being a mod
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Hi guys! I'm excited to be playing with such a different crowd!
Vote: gkreig for being a mod
but I'm not this game...
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You're a board moderator
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vote: WW
That guy is always scum.
and vote: Eevee for forum survivor. Now it is out of my system.
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You're a board moderator
Watch it or I'll modify all your votes into self-votes!
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Hey! Don't be a meanie zucchini!
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Anyone have any setup ideas? Or is setup talk deemed a bad way to kick things off these days?
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This probably has something similar to Board Games Mafia.
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I'm really excited for this; it should be fun.
Anyone have any setup ideas? Or is setup talk deemed a bad way to kick things off these days?
I'm new here. What do you mean by setup ideas?
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We talk about our role types and what it does. I'm pretty sure we should be opposed to doing this day 1.
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Anyone have any setup ideas? Or is setup talk deemed a bad way to kick things off these days?
Setup talk would be fine if there were anything about this setup that we actually knew. Even from the setup post, there isn't much.
Also it's closed, so not much there either.
I don't think it will have much to do with board game mafia.
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We talk about our role types and what it does. I'm pretty sure we should be opposed to doing this day 1.
I agree with Lekkit
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I'm really excited for this; it should be fun.
The flavor looks amazing. I only wish LaLight was playing rather than modding, because I feel like I know him best.
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Happy birthday to you,
Happy birthday to you,
Happy Birthday dear LaLight,
Happy birthday to you!
May the cake be not a lie :-) Hope you've had an awesome day!
With luck, we'll manage to give you a well-played Best Dominion Cards game as a present ;-)
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Anyone have any setup ideas? Or is setup talk deemed a bad way to kick things off these days?
Ooh, I love set-up stuff! But there's virtually nothing to go on here, so I have no cunning ideas yet :-(
Also, Hi! I don't think I've come across you or Lekkit before, but you're both vets, right?
And IDontPlayThisGame, I don't think I know anything about you at all...
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IDontPlayThisGame is good at Dominion but that's all I know
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Anyone have any setup ideas? Or is setup talk deemed a bad way to kick things off these days?
Ooh, I love set-up stuff! But there's virtually nothing to go on here, so I have no cunning ideas yet :-(
Also, Hi! I don't think I've come across you or Lekkit before, but you're both vets, right?
And IDontPlayThisGame, I don't think I know anything about you at all...
Well you know he doesn't play this game
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Anyone have any setup ideas? Or is setup talk deemed a bad way to kick things off these days?
Ooh, I love set-up stuff! But there's virtually nothing to go on here, so I have no cunning ideas yet :-(
Also, Hi! I don't think I've come across you or Lekkit before, but you're both vets, right?
And IDontPlayThisGame, I don't think I know anything about you at all...
Well you know he doesn't play this game
Not necessarily... it's a Dominion forum, so "this game" may well refer to Dominion.
(I barely play Dominion myself, so it's kind of believable...)
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Hello! I don't know Dylan or IDPTG, everyone else I've played with before, although it's been a pretty long time (like, years) in the cases of Eevee and Lekkit.
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I know Robz, Lekkit and PPS from years ago, gkrieg and Roadrunner more recently from the survivor game, and I don't think I've had the pleasure of meeting anyone else before this. I'm excited to see if the game play has evolved as time has passed. Is everyone a super detective these days?
Robz, we must have played literally dozens of games together at this point? I'm to this day emotionally scarred about some of the worst times I completely trusted your beautiful scum lies and handed the game to your team in the process. Hrrrr.
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Hi SpaceAnone! I played a lot of games back when we started the mafia games here, but I've been away for a few years now. I probably burned myself out a little bit playing so much back then. Robz told me he had signed up to a game, so I thought this would be a great time for my bi-annual comeback to playing.
Is this anyone's first game?
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I remember PPS as an extremely fun guy to play with, just the right kind of confrontational. I think he is a big asset for us (if town), and extremely dangerous if scum.
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I've never won a game of mafia, and I've always been town. So on the one hand, that's good, on the other, its bad.
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I feel like I'll be able to read RR, but I've also played /w SA and PPS B4.
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I know Robz, Lekkit and PPS from years ago, gkrieg and Roadrunner more recently from the survivor game, and I don't think I've had the pleasure of meeting anyone else before this. I'm excited to see if the game play has evolved as time has passed. Is everyone a super detective these days?
Robz, we must have played literally dozens of games together at this point? I'm to this day emotionally scarred about some of the worst times I completely trusted your beautiful scum lies and handed the game to your team in the process. Hrrrr.
So many games...Mafia 3 and on! I still have a pretty good memory for the early games, actually... it's after Modern Community (which was 30, or 31, or 32 I think) that they start to blur together. But I still remember that basically un-losable role you had in Mod Comm, you were a Survivor and you chose to ally with my scum faction. So great.
Oh, and you should absolutely trust me as you always do, would I ever lie to you?
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I remember PPS as an extremely fun guy to play with, just the right kind of confrontational. I think he is a big asset for us (if town), and extremely dangerous if scum.
Yes.
Calamitas, SA, and RR are pretty savvy players, I've found. Jake is, well, you'll see.
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Savvy? I appreciate that, even if it might not be entirely true ;)
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I remember PPS as an extremely fun guy to play with, just the right kind of confrontational. I think he is a big asset for us (if town), and extremely dangerous if scum.
Yes.
Calamitas, SA, and RR are pretty savvy players, I've found. Jake is, well, you'll see.
See what robz Vote: RR Ok list time
1.Eevee your now Ee because Eevee is to hard to spell
2. Gkrieg is Big G because he is mod
3.Lekkit is Lek
4.Idontplaythisgame is IDP
5. I'm pretty mew Ee this is my third game
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I remember PPS as an extremely fun guy to play with, just the right kind of confrontational. I think he is a big asset for us (if town), and extremely dangerous if scum.
Yes.
Calamitas, SA, and RR are pretty savvy players, I've found. Jake is, well, you'll see.
See what robz Vote: RR Ok list time
1.Eevee your now Ee because Eevee is to hard to spell
2. Gkrieg is Big G because he is mod
3.Lekkit is Lek
4.Idontplaythisgame is IDP
5. I'm pretty mew Ee this is my third game
Didn't you attack RR right away in that other mafia game we both played in?
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You mean the one we're not allowed to talk about?
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Jake and RR know each other IRL, and it shows. They always spend a disproportionate amount of time talking to, and misreading, each other.
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IDontPlayThisGame is good at Dominion but that's all I know
Aww, thanks
Is this anyone's first game?
Yep, my first game
Anyone have any setup ideas? Or is setup talk deemed a bad way to kick things off these days?
Ooh, I love set-up stuff! But there's virtually nothing to go on here, so I have no cunning ideas yet :-(
Also, Hi! I don't think I've come across you or Lekkit before, but you're both vets, right?
And IDontPlayThisGame, I don't think I know anything about you at all...
Well you know he doesn't play this game
Not necessarily... it's a Dominion forum, so "this game" may well refer to Dominion.
(I barely play Dominion myself, so it's kind of believable...)
It refers to Dominion. Clearly, I don't play Dominion. There's a bug that says I've played over 500 games, it's pretty weird. I've been told (by our lovely host, LaLight) that I should change my name when Dominion 2017 is out.
Getting back to the topic at hand, I'm not really sure how to go about this. I guess we just talk and try to get to know each other?
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Vote Count 1.1
GKrieg13 (1): Roadrunner7671
Eevee (1): GKrieg13
Roadrunner7671 (1): JakeTheBaseballGod22
Not Voting (9): Dylan32, Calamitas, Robz888, Pingpongsam, SpaceAnemone, IDontPlayThisGame, GKrieg13, McGarnacle, Lekkit
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday Nov 20 at 1 pm
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Getting back to the topic at hand, I'm not really sure how to go about this. I guess we just talk and try to get to know each other?
Scummiest thing I've heard all day.
Vote: IDPTG
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I didn't like that either but I didn't want to point it out
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Getting back to the topic at hand, I'm not really sure how to go about this. I guess we just talk and try to get to know each other?
Scummiest thing I've heard all day.
Vote: IDPTG
Agreed. vote: IDPTG
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I didn't like that either but I didn't want to point it out
Why not?
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I didn't like that either but I didn't want to point it out
This seems towny, if not something I think is good to do (I think t's better to point things out and try to scum hunt, create interactions and make people talk about their game plan). I think mafia-RR would want to stir up drama, not avoid creating it.
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I didn't like that either but I didn't want to point it out
Why not?
He (he?) is a newbie and I really don't feel like lynching a newbie D1 is a great idea
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Developing reads on them is, though.
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I didn't like that either but I didn't want to point it out
This seems towny, if not something I think is good to do (I think t's better to point things out and try to scum hunt, create interactions and make people talk about their game plan). I think mafia-RR would want to stir up drama, not avoid creating it.
Mega agree.
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Aw thanks guys <3
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I didn't like that either but I didn't want to point it out
Why not?
He (he?) is a newbie and I really don't feel like lynching a newbie D1 is a great idea
I don't mind, and in fact sort of support, lynching newbies Day 1... but I don't see why IDP's remark was scummy at all. Why is newbie scum more likely to be confused about how to get the game going than newbie town?
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I remember PPS as an extremely fun guy to play with, just the right kind of confrontational. I think he is a big asset for us (if town), and extremely dangerous if scum.
PPS and I were scumbuddies in NM8, and it was great fun!! He proposed a number of bizarre plans from mis-remembered facts, then scum-slipped hard in D2, so I had to do the rest single-handed, leaving me with the belief that he's kind of a big softie really ;-)
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I remember PPS as an extremely fun guy to play with, just the right kind of confrontational. I think he is a big asset for us (if town), and extremely dangerous if scum.
Yes.
Calamitas, SA, and RR are pretty savvy players, I've found. Jake is, well, you'll see.
My favourite adjective for RR is "quirky" :-) Jake is similar, but with worse grammar and less impulse control.
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I didn't like that either but I didn't want to point it out
I think this is pretty scummy
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I didn't like that either but I didn't want to point it out
Why not?
He (he?) is a newbie and I really don't feel like lynching a newbie D1 is a great idea
Ooh, yes, pronoun check is good!
For people I haven't encountered before, I go by they/them for those who can manage singular they, and she/her if people really struggle too much. Thanks :-)
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So, we have a McGarnacle, Gkreig, IDP scum team. Glad I'm voting one of them already.
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What is NM8? I've heard it get referenced several times and I have no idea
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I didn't like that either but I didn't want to point it out
I think this is pretty scummy
While I agree, I think it's non-scummy to admit it. I think that town is more likely to just put their thoughts out there. Scum is more likely to check what they write and think it through. And it makes very little sense to say this as scum.
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I remember PPS as an extremely fun guy to play with, just the right kind of confrontational. I think he is a big asset for us (if town), and extremely dangerous if scum.
PPS and I were scumbuddies in NM8, and it was great fun!! He proposed a number of bizarre plans from mis-remembered facts, then scum-slipped hard in D2, so I had to do the rest single-handed, leaving me with the belief that he's kind of a big softie really ;-)
It was D3 and up to the slip I had town eating out of my hand. We're we're going to mislynch ashersky then Paco without any resistance. I would argue that I set you up for a path to victory but you definitely had to play perfect to win, which you did. I no longer talk about because, well, I am the worst EVER at . In fact, I am not even talking about now.
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So apparently you can't successfully spoiler tag a series of spaces.
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What is NM8? I've heard it get referenced several times and I have no idea
Newbie Mafia 8 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16181.0) :-)
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Feeling confident SA is the SK. I mean, look at the similarities.
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What is NM8? I've heard it get referenced several times and I have no idea
Newbie Mafia 8 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16181.0) :-)
Oh yeah. I think I got mislynched as a VT
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I remember PPS as an extremely fun guy to play with, just the right kind of confrontational. I think he is a big asset for us (if town), and extremely dangerous if scum.
Yes.
Calamitas, SA, and RR are pretty savvy players, I've found. Jake is, well, you'll see.
My favourite adjective for RR is "quirky" :-) Jake is similar, but with worse grammar and less impulse control.
Zing!
After this game I might make that my signature
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I didn't like that either but I didn't want to point it out
I think this is pretty scummy
While I agree, I think it's non-scummy to admit it. I think that town is more likely to just put their thoughts out there. Scum is more likely to check what they write and think it through. And it makes very little sense to say this as scum.
I mean the good thing about RR is that he is town when he is scummy and scum when he is townie. So him being scummy is really just a town tell.
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I didn't like that either but I didn't want to point it out
I think this is pretty scummy
While I agree, I think it's non-scummy to admit it. I think that town is more likely to just put their thoughts out there. Scum is more likely to check what they write and think it through. And it makes very little sense to say this as scum.
I mean the good thing about RR is that he is town when he is scummy and scum when he is townie. So him being scummy is really just a town tell.
Grrr, you figured me out! Now I'll have to play differently as scum
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I didn't like that either but I didn't want to point it out
I think this is pretty scummy
While I agree, I think it's non-scummy to admit it. I think that town is more likely to just put their thoughts out there. Scum is more likely to check what they write and think it through. And it makes very little sense to say this as scum.
I mean the good thing about RR is that he is town when he is scummy and scum when he is townie. So him being scummy is really just a town tell.
Grrr, you figured me out! Now I'll have to play differently as scum
One other thing to note about Roadrunner is that he actually has a physical list of his meta.
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Oooh, do you want to see it?
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I remember PPS as an extremely fun guy to play with, just the right kind of confrontational. I think he is a big asset for us (if town), and extremely dangerous if scum.
Yes.
Calamitas, SA, and RR are pretty savvy players, I've found. Jake is, well, you'll see.
My favourite adjective for RR is "quirky" :-) Jake is similar, but with worse grammar and less impulse control.
Zing!
After this game I might make that my signature
Oops... that might lead to me getting OMGUSed by Jake for quite a while if you include the grammar bit, huh? :-P
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Wow. I ask for clarification and now I'm scum? I told you, I've never played. The closest I've ever come to this type of game is IRL Bang! where round one options are much clearer.
vote: pingpongsam
And my pronouns are he/him/his
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Wow. I ask for clarification and now I'm scum? I told you, I've never played. The closest I've ever come to this type of game is IRL Bang! where round one options are much clearer.
vote: pingpongsam
And my pronouns are he/him/his
We call this "OMGUS" when you vote for someone on purely retaliatory grounds. It's bad.
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I remember PPS as an extremely fun guy to play with, just the right kind of confrontational. I think he is a big asset for us (if town), and extremely dangerous if scum.
Yes.
Calamitas, SA, and RR are pretty savvy players, I've found. Jake is, well, you'll see.
My favourite adjective for RR is "quirky" :-) Jake is similar, but with worse grammar and less impulse control.
Zing!
After this game I might make that my signature
Oops... that might lead to me getting OMGUSed by Jake for quite a while if you include the grammar bit, huh? :-P
Boi I use great grammar Vote: SA
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Jake's got a bit of Morgrim in him.
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Jake's got a bit of Morgrim in him.
Boi nah
1. No I don't
2. I'm soooooooo nice and friendly
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Jake's got a bit of Morgrim in him.
Boi nah
1. No I don't
2. I'm soooooooo nice and friendly
You don't even know who Morgrim is!
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Jake's got a bit of Morgrim in him.
Boi nah
1. No I don't
2. I'm soooooooo nice and friendly
You don't even know who Morgrim is!
He's a grammerlees bad player
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What is NM8? I've heard it get referenced several times and I have no idea
Newbie Mafia 8 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16181.0) :-)
Dang, it was D2. Congratulations on surviving that.
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Hey everyone. Sorry I missed all the initial "excited for this flavor" posts, but this looks like it's already shaping up to be a good one. To those of you I met in RMM37, hey! and everyone else, good to meet you. Hopefully this week isn't as busy as this weekend was.
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Hey everyone. Sorry I missed all the initial "excited for this flavor" posts, but this looks like it's already shaping up to be a good one. To those of you I met in RMM37, hey! and everyone else, good to meet you. Hopefully this week isn't as busy as this weekend was.
Hello, and nice to meet you!
Any impressions or thoughts on what anyone has said this far?
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So, we have a McGarnacle, Gkreig, IDP scum team. Glad I'm voting one of them already.
Um, why is that?
On an unrelated note, how come posts in mafia game threads do not increase your post count.
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So, we have a McGarnacle, Gkreig, IDP scum team. Glad I'm voting one of them already.
Um, why is that?
On an unrelated note, how come posts in mafia game threads do not increase your post count.
Theory didn't want Forum Games posts, which have nothing to do with Dominion, inflating your stats. It got to be that me, Galz, Eevee, and some other people all had dominion (heh) over the top 10 slots when it came to posting, and agreed that didn't make much sense (at the time).
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So, we have a McGarnacle, Gkreig, IDP scum team. Glad I'm voting one of them already.
Um, why is that?
On an unrelated note, how come posts in mafia game threads do not increase your post count.
It's a thing. I call scum teams D1. I'm using the interaction around my IDP vote as a basis for this one. You are opportunistically early bussing your partner during RVS for distance. Don't try to deny it. Gkreig is playing good cop by diverting onto RR. It's all quite clear; I mean I haven't seen such a transparent, incompetent scum team since the last D1 I played as town.
Post counts would be ridiculously inflated and less relevant (I suppose) if game thread posts were counted (I might be in the mid 5 figure count, for example) (ninja'd)
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It's all for the best, I'd rather not be reminded of my actual post count here.
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Townread on PPS. Just feel that scum would be less likely to build a convoluted scenario he did, and be more concerned with just letting the status quo of no real cases or interactions stand.
This read is not a reflection on how I feel about the validity of PPS's case, just trying to draw analysis from him trying to make it. I think it's commendable (and towny) to try.
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Humor ---------------->
Eevee's Head -----> 0
\|/
/\
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Town read retracted!
I was kind of happy someone was making a crazy accusation, in my experience those often end up creating useful discussion. I've always secretly admired the people who can create conflict for the benefit of the town, I just don't have that in my personality.
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Humor ---------------->
Eevee's Head -----> 0
\|/
/\
Set-up info ------------>
monospaced fonts ------->
PPS's Head ------------> 0
/|\
/ \
:-)
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Wasn't joking and smileys a scumtell back in the days?
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I always get scumread for that lek
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I always get scumread for that lek
No, you get scumread because you're scummy
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I always get scumread for that lek
No, you get scumread because you're scummy
Non you scum
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Wasn't joking and smileys a scumtell back in the days?
I think it's important to consider the whole body of work of the potential suspect. Posting a joke in isolation isn't scummy, hiding behind jokey posts and not creating any real content while maintaining a high enough post count to avoid being the default lurker lynch is.
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We are 100 posts in, and we have no real votes, or even suspicions or disagreements yet. Isn't this an unusually slow start for a game?
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We are 100 posts in, and we have no real votes, or even suspicions or disagreements yet. Isn't this an unusually slow start for a game?
The mafia meta has become more laid back IMO
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We are 100 posts in, and we have no real votes, or even suspicions or disagreements yet. Isn't this an unusually slow start for a game?
I feel like we also don't have many of the normal people to make the attacks yet.
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I'll bite.
Vote: Jake
He's been less active than usual and different
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Also he's been acti-lurking pretty hard
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Town read retracted!
I was kind of happy someone was making a crazy accusation, in my experience those often end up creating useful discussion. I've always secretly admired the people who can create conflict for the benefit of the town, I just don't have that in my personality.
Yeah, I was doing that but not with a straight face. I'd have rather you didn't defuse it because I was pretty sure IDP was going to react and probably Gkreig as well.
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Also he's been acti-lurking pretty hard
Dude iI Never LURK EVER
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I'll bite.
Vote: Jake
He's been less active than usual and different
And i'm the same old me
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Vote: Jake
No previous experience with jake, but I agree with RR that those are scum characteristics, eapecially for someone with a happy-go-lucky playing style.
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Wasn't joking and smileys a scumtell back in the days?
There was no smiley, which was half the issue. But if joking is a scumtell then me and RR are always scum. The difference being no one ever reads my jokes as such and then when I explain them they cease being funny despite the meme that says otherwise.
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Vote: Jake
No previous experience with jake, but I agree with RR that those are scum characteristics, eapecially for someone with a happy-go-lucky playing style.
Dude look back I haven't lurked at all
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Vote: Jake
No previous experience with jake, but I agree with RR that those are scum characteristics, eapecially for someone with a happy-go-lucky playing style.
RR always goes after Jake; it's meaningless.
That said, if we get Jake out of the game RR might actually become useful.
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Wasn't joking and smileys a scumtell back in the days?
I think it's important to consider the whole body of work of the potential suspect. Posting a joke in isolation isn't scummy, hiding behind jokey posts and not creating any real content while maintaining a high enough post count to avoid being the default lurker lynch is.
We don't lynch lurkers anymore; it's pathetic.
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Vote: Jake
No previous experience with jake, but I agree with RR that those are scum characteristics, eapecially for someone with a happy-go-lucky playing style.
RR always goes after Jake; it's meaningless.
That said, if we get Jake out of the game RR might actually become useful.
RR just got burned so hard dang
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Also he's been acti-lurking pretty hard
Dude iI Never LURK EVER
Acti-lurking.
You have been making posts but you haven't been moving the game forward
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Wasn't joking and smileys a scumtell back in the days?
I think it's important to consider the whole body of work of the potential suspect. Posting a joke in isolation isn't scummy, hiding behind jokey posts and not creating any real content while maintaining a high enough post count to avoid being the default lurker lynch is.
We don't lynch lurkers anymore; it's pathetic.
I think we should start lynching lurkers again. They have won too many games recently
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Vote: Jake
No previous experience with jake, but I agree with RR that those are scum characteristics, eapecially for someone with a happy-go-lucky playing style.
RR always goes after Jake; it's meaningless.
That said, if we get Jake out of the game RR might actually become useful.
RR just got burned so hard dang
He just suggested killing you...?
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Vote: Jake
No previous experience with jake, but I agree with RR that those are scum characteristics, eapecially for someone with a happy-go-lucky playing style.
RR always goes after Jake; it's meaningless.
That said, if we get Jake out of the game RR might actually become useful.
RR just got burned so hard dang
He just suggested killing you...?
yeah but he called you unuseful
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Also your only case against me is lurking which I haven't done at All
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Vote: Jake
No previous experience with jake, but I agree with RR that those are scum characteristics, eapecially for someone with a happy-go-lucky playing style.
RR always goes after Jake; it's meaningless.
That said, if we get Jake out of the game RR might actually become useful.
RR just got burned so hard dang
He just suggested killing you...?
yeah but he called you unuseful
I'm 'unuseful' because I have to respond to dumb stuff like this
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Also your only case against me is lurking which I haven't done at All
Please read the thread
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Also your only case against me is lurking which I haven't done at All
Please read the thread
How have I been unusual?
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Also your only case against me is lurking which I haven't done at All
Please read the thread
How have I been unusual?
I have no idea where that question came from. I never accused you of being unusual
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I'll bite.
Vote: Jake
He's been less active than usual and different
What is this then RR?
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I'll bite.
Vote: Jake
He's been less active than usual and different
What is this then RR?
That's a post I made a few minutes ago
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I'll bite.
Vote: Jake
He's been less active than usual and different
What is this then RR?
That's a post I made a few minutes ago
I know it say that I am different in this game. Different is a synonym for Unusual.
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I'll bite.
Vote: Jake
He's been less active than usual and different
What is this then RR?
That's a post I made a few minutes ago
I know it say that I am different in this game. Different is a synonym for Unusual.
It seemed like in other games you at least tried to make a case, no matter how weak it was, instead of something along the lines of 'boi i hve gr8 grammer'
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I'll bite.
Vote: Jake
He's been less active than usual and different
What is this then RR?
That's a post I made a few minutes ago
I know it say that I am different in this game. Different is a synonym for Unusual.
It seemed like in other games you at least tried to make a case, no matter how weak it was, instead of something along the lines of 'boi i hve gr8 grammer'
Boi its called D-1 and you want some read here you go
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No, I don't want reads. Reads aren't everything. You can't just post reads over and over and all of a sudden be towny.
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1. Jake is Awesome town dude
2. Big G is a too early too tell kind of lurking
3. RR IS SCUM
4. SA too early too tell
5. Calm may be scum
6. McG looks town
7. IDP is newbie so no
8. Lek is lurking so can't tell
9. Dylan looks new to me can't tell
10. PPS look's sorta scum but not really
11. Robz is probably town
12. Ee looks twon
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1. Jake is Awesome town dude
2. Big G is a too early too tell kind of lurking
3. RR IS SCUM
4. SA too early too tell
5. Calm may be scum
6. McG looks town
7. IDP is newbie so no
8. Lek is lurking so can't tell
9. Dylan looks new to me can't tell
10. PPS look's sorta scum but not really
11. Robz is probably town
12. Ee looks twon
Bang
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1. Jake is Awesome town dude
2. Big G is a too early too tell kind of lurking
3. RR IS SCUM
4. SA too early too tell
5. Calm may be scum
6. McG looks town
7. IDP is newbie so no
8. Lek is lurking so can't tell
9. Dylan looks new to me can't tell
10. PPS look's sorta scum but not really
11. Robz is probably town
12. Ee looks twon
Can you back these up with examples?
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1. Jake is Awesome town dude
2. Big G is a too early too tell kind of lurking
3. RR IS SCUM
4. SA too early too tell
5. Calm may be scum
6. McG looks town
7. IDP is newbie so no
8. Lek is lurking so can't tell
9. Dylan looks new to me can't tell
10. PPS look's sorta scum but not really
11. Robz is probably town
12. Ee looks twon
Can you back these up with examples?
Some
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Well, then, Vote: Jake just to stop the madness.
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Wasn't joking and smileys a scumtell back in the days?
YESSSSS let's being it back.
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Wasn't joking and smileys a scumtell back in the days?
YESSSSS let's being it back.
Lead by example, then. Vote either me or SA.
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Unvote
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1. Jake is Awesome town dude
2. Big G is a too early too tell kind of lurking
3. RR IS SCUM
4. SA too early too tell
5. Calm may be scum
6. McG looks town
7. IDP is newbie so no
8. Lek is lurking so can't tell
9. Dylan looks new to me can't tell
10. PPS look's sorta scum but not really
11. Robz is probably town
12. Ee looks twon
Vote: Jake. While I agree with RR that he was behaving a little differently, the scummier thing is that after being called out for it he fell over backwards to try and act more like himself. But it's an act.
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Vote Count 1.2
Eevee (1): GKrieg13
IDontPlayThisGame (1): McGarnacle
pingpongsam (1): IDontPlayThisGame
SpaceAnemone (1): JakeTheBaseballGod22
JakeTheBaseballGod22 (3): Roadrunner7671, pingpongsam, Robz888
Not Voting (5): Dylan32, Calamitas, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, Lekkit
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday Nov 20 at 1 pm
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Still don't know why everyone is voting me
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1. Jake is Awesome town dude
2. Big G is a too early too tell kind of lurking
3. RR IS SCUM
4. SA too early too tell
5. Calm may be scum
6. McG looks town
7. IDP is newbie so no
8. Lek is lurking so can't tell
9. Dylan looks new to me can't tell
10. PPS look's sorta scum but not really
11. Robz is probably town
12. Ee looks twon
Vote: Jake. While I agree with RR that he was behaving a little differently, the scummier thing is that after being called out for it he fell over backwards to try and act more like himself. But it's an act.
Well this is a good point as well. Hmm.
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Still don't know why everyone is voting me
IKR, Vote: SA
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Wasn't joking and smileys a scumtell back in the days?
Yeah, I get people wanting to scumread me for emoticons, but I disagree with the idea that I have to make my meta like everyone else's meta in order to be a useful player. And I'm a bit stubborn with stuff like that :-P I do quite often get mislynched, though, especially in games where gkrieg is playing :-(
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Still don't know why everyone is voting me
IKR, Vote: SA
Dammit.. you're still not acting wacky enough for me to think you're scum. Yet!
I'll be home in a couple of hours to read what people are actually doing, rather than just reacting to all the lovely fluff :-P
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Hey everyone. Sorry I missed all the initial "excited for this flavor" posts, but this looks like it's already shaping up to be a good one. To those of you I met in RMM37, hey! and everyone else, good to meet you. Hopefully this week isn't as busy as this weekend was.
Hello, and nice to meet you!
Any impressions or thoughts on what anyone has said this far?
Well, I've seen a few things I want to reread, but it was just skimming right before I crashed last night, so nothing useful off the top of my head at the moment. I'll post a full reads post this afternoon when I can go back, read the thread, and keep track of who said what.
I will say, I like the activity level of this game compared to the Worms game that just ended. This is only my second game, but scum!lurkers won that game for scum, so my opinion (without very much evidence to back it up) is pretty firmly lurkers should be lynched.
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Has been a busy day for me, will catch up later.
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Actually, rather than do one big post, I'll just say things as I see them to make it easier to keep track of stuff while I write.
The long interaction between Jake and RR struck me as genuine. Either both are town, one but not both of them are scum. Unless they are better than I am giving them credit for (possible given RR's scum play in my last game), I don't think they would have faked that if both were scum.
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Actually, rather than do one big post, I'll just say things as I see them to make it easier to keep track of stuff while I write.
The long interaction between Jake and RR struck me as genuine. Either both are town, one but not both of them are scum. Unless they are better than I am giving them credit for (possible given RR's scum play in my last game), I don't think they would have faked that if both were scum.
Jake and RR are close IRL and in every game I've played with them so far they just talk at each other constantly, and don't read each other particularly well.
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Actually, rather than do one big post, I'll just say things as I see them to make it easier to keep track of stuff while I write.
The long interaction between Jake and RR struck me as genuine. Either both are town, one but not both of them are scum. Unless they are better than I am giving them credit for (possible given RR's scum play in my last game), I don't think they would have faked that if both were scum.
Jake and RR are close IRL and in every game I've played with them so far they just talk at each other constantly, and don't read each other particularly well.
Very much this. There's nothing the rest of us can really gain from it.
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Actually, rather than do one big post, I'll just say things as I see them to make it easier to keep track of stuff while I write.
The long interaction between Jake and RR struck me as genuine. Either both are town, one but not both of them are scum. Unless they are better than I am giving them credit for (possible given RR's scum play in my last game), I don't think they would have faked that if both were scum.
Jake and RR are close IRL and in every game I've played with them so far they just talk at each other constantly, and don't read each other particularly well.
Very much this. There's nothing the rest of us can really gain from it.
Has anyone seen the two of them together on the same scum team to confirm they talk like this then too? If not, my point stands. I don't care if they are misreading each other. I'm just saying that if they were both scum, the interaction would feel somewhat forced, which it doesn't to me. So while we can't tell anything about what they are individually, I am still inclined to say (unless someone remembers a game where they did this) that they both aren't scum.
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We always argue on everything even though I always win
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Actually, rather than do one big post, I'll just say things as I see them to make it easier to keep track of stuff while I write.
The long interaction between Jake and RR struck me as genuine. Either both are town, one but not both of them are scum. Unless they are better than I am giving them credit for (possible given RR's scum play in my last game), I don't think they would have faked that if both were scum.
Jake and RR are close IRL and in every game I've played with them so far they just talk at each other constantly, and don't read each other particularly well.
Very much this. There's nothing the rest of us can really gain from it.
Has anyone seen the two of them together on the same scum team to confirm they talk like this then too? If not, my point stands. I don't care if they are misreading each other. I'm just saying that if they were both scum, the interaction would feel somewhat forced, which it doesn't to me. So while we can't tell anything about what they are individually, I am still inclined to say (unless someone remembers a game where they did this) that they both aren't scum.
I don't know about this. I could just as easily see them being able to talk to each other like this *despite* both being scum.
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Regardless of my previous comment:
Slight town points to RR. He's been slightly more active this game than I've seen. Some of that has been fluff, but he's contributed just enough to not be neutral.
Robz seems like he's been acti-lurking a little bit. Pretty much the only thing he has said other than agreeing with other comments and fluff was about RR and Jake knowing each other a few times. Overall, pretty neutral so far, but worth watching.
IDPTG seems like new!town to me, but that's just because his "how do we start this" post was a written version of exactly what I was thinking my first game on here. If he was scum, I don't think he would have brought that much attention to himself if it was his first game.
It's not much, but it's what has stood out so far.
P.S. Can confirm SA looovees setup discussion and exploits haha
PPE 2
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Actually, rather than do one big post, I'll just say things as I see them to make it easier to keep track of stuff while I write.
The long interaction between Jake and RR struck me as genuine. Either both are town, one but not both of them are scum. Unless they are better than I am giving them credit for (possible given RR's scum play in my last game), I don't think they would have faked that if both were scum.
Jake and RR are close IRL and in every game I've played with them so far they just talk at each other constantly, and don't read each other particularly well.
Very much this. There's nothing the rest of us can really gain from it.
Has anyone seen the two of them together on the same scum team to confirm they talk like this then too? If not, my point stands. I don't care if they are misreading each other. I'm just saying that if they were both scum, the interaction would feel somewhat forced, which it doesn't to me. So while we can't tell anything about what they are individually, I am still inclined to say (unless someone remembers a game where they did this) that they both aren't scum.
I don't know about this. I could just as easily see them being able to talk to each other like this *despite* both being scum.
Agreed.
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Ok. I guess you guys know them significantly better than I do, so for now I'll defer, but at the very least I don't think 'both scum' is the most likely option.
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Crazy theory, but neither RR or Jake are scum, but Robz and pps are, and they want to make sure both RR and Jake can be accused as scum to maximize the number of people they could divert attention to
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Regardless of my previous comment:
Slight town points to RR. He's been slightly more active this game than I've seen. Some of that has been fluff, but he's contributed just enough to not be neutral.
Robz seems like he's been acti-lurking a little bit. Pretty much the only thing he has said other than agreeing with other comments and fluff was about RR and Jake knowing each other a few times. Overall, pretty neutral so far, but worth watching.
IDPTG seems like new!town to me, but that's just because his "how do we start this" post was a written version of exactly what I was thinking my first game on here. If he was scum, I don't think he would have brought that much attention to himself if it was his first game.
It's not much, but it's what has stood out so far.
P.S. Can confirm SA looovees setup discussion and exploits haha
PPE 2
This seems like a townie post. And I agree with all of the positions except for the one about Robz. I feel like Robz has been contributing.
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I'm inclined to agree with the sentiment that Jake's posts haven't had much merit to them; it seems like a lot of "grammar" and not much material. After seeing all of the vote changes coming out of PPS, I can't decide if I think it's a town move trying to get a reaction out of scum or a scum move trying to see who will join in and mislynch someone D1. At any rate,
unvote
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Has been a busy day for me, will catch up later.
Oh, hey, Calamitas is in the game :-)
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For the record, I'm aware my spats with Jake aren't really helpful, but they help me and Jake get into the game and at least give you guys a little something to look at and analyze
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For the record, I'm aware my spats with Jake aren't really helpful, but they help me and Jake get into the game and at least give you guys a little something to look at and analyze
Ya but fluff makes you much more difficult to reread
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For the record, I'm aware my spats with Jake aren't really helpful, but they help me and Jake get into the game and at least give you guys a little something to look at and analyze
Ya but fluff makes you much more difficult to reread
I also find they dilute the other content quite a lot, so there could be a whole page of the Jake'n'RR show that I have to get through, and then I miss important content that comes just before or just after when I've had a busy day. Or in this case a sick/sleepy day... my big re-read of everything on the forum got a little derailed by falling asleep for 3 hours the moment I got in from work :-(
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After a more of a re-read, I'd like to vote: McGarnacle.
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After a more of a re-read, I'd like to vote: McGarnacle.
care to explain that?
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After a more of a re-read, I'd like to vote: McGarnacle.
Yeah that seems...odd
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Why
We should lynch RR instead
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Why
We should lynch RR instead
This is really terrible OMGUS.
Just because I 'accuse' you doesn't mean I'm scum by default
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Why
We should lynch RR instead
This is really terrible OMGUS.
Just because I 'accuse' you doesn't mean I'm scum by default
OMG thanks and yes it does
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Interested to hear this case on McGarnacle.
I'm harping on Jake and RR because it's one of the only things that's happened and is worth commenting on. But town points to Dylan anyway for having the guts to accuse me of acti-lurking, and in general seeming like he's actually scum hunting.
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Yeah I like Dylan
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After a more of a re-read, I'd like to vote: McGarnacle.
Yeah that seems...odd
I'm not getting strong scum reads on anyone yet, but McGarnacle's set himself us as the innocent bewildered newbie, which was exactly what I did when I was scum. Vets have a habit of believing it from a newbie, and there are lots of extreme vets around. There's another thing, too, but ask me again sometime later in D1.
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After a more of a re-read, I'd like to vote: McGarnacle.
Yeah that seems...odd
I'm not getting strong scum reads on anyone yet, but McGarnacle's set himself us as the innocent bewildered newbie, which was exactly what I did when I was scum. Vets have a habit of believing it from a newbie, and there are lots of extreme vets around. There's another thing, too, but ask me again sometime later in D1.
Just did a re-read of McG, which took all of 30 seconds, and I don't see it.
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After a more of a re-read, I'd like to vote: McGarnacle.
Yeah that seems...odd
I'm not getting strong scum reads on anyone yet, but McGarnacle's set himself us as the innocent bewildered newbie, which was exactly what I did when I was scum. Vets have a habit of believing it from a newbie, and there are lots of extreme vets around. There's another thing, too, but ask me again sometime later in D1.
Just did a re-read of McG, which took all of 30 seconds, and I don't see it.
His three early-game posts all essentially set up how newbie he is, how he can't read most people etc. Then he makes a non-alignment-indicative newbie error to underscore that. Then he gets jumpy over PPS's scum-team-call thing.. it's a shame Eevee diffused it so fast, as PPS said already. He also jumped right onto a a wagon on our actual newbie at #81. Which of those things doesn't work as "look at me I'm an innocent newbie; move along, no scums to see here, kthanxbai"?
Also.. how similar in play-style would you say Eevee and PPS are?
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I mean...it's probably the best case I've seen all day, now that you lay it out like that.
Vote: McGarnacle
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After a more of a re-read, I'd like to vote: McGarnacle.
Yeah that seems...odd
I'm not getting strong scum reads on anyone yet, but McGarnacle's set himself us as the innocent bewildered newbie, which was exactly what I did when I was scum. Vets have a habit of believing it from a newbie, and there are lots of extreme vets around. There's another thing, too, but ask me again sometime later in D1.
Just did a re-read of McG, which took all of 30 seconds, and I don't see it.
His three early-game posts all essentially set up how newbie he is, how he can't read most people etc. Then he makes a non-alignment-indicative newbie error to underscore that. Then he gets jumpy over PPS's scum-team-call thing.. it's a shame Eevee diffused it so fast, as PPS said already. He also jumped right onto a a wagon on our actual newbie at #81. Which of those things doesn't work as "look at me I'm an innocent newbie; move along, no scums to see here, kthanxbai"?
Also.. how similar in play-style would you say Eevee and PPS are?
I would say not very.
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I would say not at all. No one is similar to PPS
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Robz is well within meta for D1 which he always is. He's very noncommittal as he should be. We both agree D1 is largely an exercise of futility and a random lynch to get the game started. Also, when you're scum it's super to not have any interaction to work with against you going into D2 when the real business begins.
All that said, when scum gets got on D1 is the antithesis of this particular philosophy.
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Crazy theory, but neither RR or Jake are scum, but Robz and pps are, and they want to make sure both RR and Jake can be accused as scum to maximize the number of people they could divert attention to
Not bad. Except Robz and I are light years ahead of that sort of obviousness. Besides all that, your play in this insinuation is weak because it gives neither of us any motivation to bus the other were we partners. The better play is to pick one of us to call out as scum but reference the other in the interaction. If the town framed one gets behind you it affirms your suspicions without them knowing that they just played into your hand.
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After a more of a re-read, I'd like to vote: McGarnacle.
Yeah that seems...odd
I'm not getting strong scum reads on anyone yet, but McGarnacle's set himself us as the innocent bewildered newbie, which was exactly what I did when I was scum. Vets have a habit of believing it from a newbie, and there are lots of extreme vets around. There's another thing, too, but ask me again sometime later in D1.
In my first game of mafia, I acted in a similar fashion, and I was town.
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After a more of a re-read, I'd like to vote: McGarnacle.
Yeah that seems...odd
I'm not getting strong scum reads on anyone yet, but McGarnacle's set himself us as the innocent bewildered newbie, which was exactly what I did when I was scum. Vets have a habit of believing it from a newbie, and there are lots of extreme vets around. There's another thing, too, but ask me again sometime later in D1.
In my first game of mafia, I acted in a similar fashion, and I was town.
I just have issues reading people right off the bat. Further into the game, it starts clicking, though.
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Vote Count 1.3
Eevee (1): GKrieg13
IDontPlayThisGame (1): McGarnacle
SpaceAnemone (2): JakeTheBaseballGod22, pingpongsam
JakeTheBaseballGod22 (1): Robz888
McGarnacle (2): SpaceAnemone, Roadrunner7671
Not Voting (5): Dylan32, Calamitas, Eevee, Lekkit, IDontPlayThisGame
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday Nov 20 at 1 pm
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Agreed, Dylan has made sense every time he has posted. I feel that "quiet but sensible" is a town archetype.
I reread Jake, it's hard to make sense of him when the posting varies so much. Before RR's mini-case, there was mostly just random chatter (I don't get the references to grammar), but after he was quick to outline how he is playing the same as ever, and definitely isn't lurking. Being conscious of such things, especially as you have a high post count but not much substance, feels like a scum trait to me. You know, if someone accused me of playing different or actilurking, I wouldn't feel the need to dispute that it might be true, I'd try to reflect why it was and maybe look to change my ways if something I was doing was unhelpful (exhibit A, I kind of screwed up PPS's plan, had I thought for 15 seconds before hitting send, I could have used a different wording or commented later when we had heard from IDPTG).
Vote: Jake, for being too self-conscious about the way he is perceived.
Some quick impressions on others:
Roadrunner: I feel he is one of those guys who I usually read as scummy, but I'm not here. Which kind of makes me feel he could be scum playing very well. The old Robz conundrum! Guys, what do you think, is my hunch that RR might appear more helpful when he is scum warranted? I don't know where I got this impression from, just a feeling. Fwiw, I agree that Roadrunner and Jake probably aren't both scum (not only because it's unlikely for any two players to be both scum, but also because of their interactions together)
gkrieg: The person I've interacted easily the most with in the past year, somewhat surprisingly a complete null read thus far. No idea how he generally plays this game of course. In the survivor game gkrieg was really able to signal trustworthiness to me, so maybe I'll get a more feel-based read later when we start having more information.
IDPTG: No read, seems to be playing up his newness? That's totally understandable from either alignment, I think the game is pretty intimidating for a new player so they often end up playing it up naturally, and if scum, their partners surely told them to play that card. So null-read for IDPTG, and for the general health of the games and getting new people to join, I wouldn't lynch a new player unless they really really appeared super scummy.
McGarnacle: I remember I spotted something I thought was scummy from McGarnacle, and decided to monitor if it continued, but have now forgotten what it was. Good target for a reread, I'll do it after this post if I have time.
SA: I don't think her use of emoticons is scummy, but she certainly fits the mold of mafia laying low, posting just often and non-controversial enough to avoid any scrutiny. Kind of hard to get any meaningful impressions of the people I have no previous reference with though.
Jake: Thoughts in the first paragraph of this post. My strongest scum read, and I kind of also feel one of those guys whose wagon would be useful for us, as anyone who reacts so strongly to getting votes has a much better chance of really signaling their innocence if they are town.
PPS: Has only the one half-hearted attempt at generating conflict I thwarted, which is less than I'd except, but I also understand that Day1's can feel like a grind for someone who is playing and has played so much. I have no idea how to catch scum PPS, but at least not feeling like there is anything suspicious yet, the behavior fits what I'd expect from town.
Robz: Probably the guy who would change his game play the most, even if it was the detriment of the current game. Robz was always maybe the hardest guy to read whatever his alignment. Multiple times I've been burned by scumRobz in such epic fashion, or have suffered the humiliation of being the incredulous town with my pitchfork sharpened to mislynch him. Seems this game we get the helpful Robz, which is great. I don't claim to be able to read him with such little information, but just that alone makes me want to not lynch him today, as he has potential to be very useful for us later.
McGarnacle: Need a reread here.
Dylan: Covered above.
Lekkit: I feel Lekkit is where scum wants to be day 1, just active enough and not making any waves. No specific read though.
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Welp, that was a quick reread. No idea what I had in mind earlier (...), but just having 10 posts, all of them very short, is not a lot to draw from.¨
McGarnacle, just try say what you have in mind. I think newer players underestimate how useful it can be just to make yourself easier to read for other by posting your thoughts.
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Ok Ee I always defend myself no matter what so that non alignment telling and I am always perceived as scum so I have too
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vote: Jake
I think Evee made a good case on him, and in most games of mafia (here or IRL) I feel like the mafia is more aggressive. Of course, SA was a prominent exception in the first game we played together, but lying low doesn't seem to be in Jake's character.
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How am i lying low at all OMGUS i have more posts in this game than anyone
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How am i lying low at all OMGUS i have more posts in this game than anyone
I don't think you know what that means.
Also, again, you've been acti-lurking
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How am i lying low at all OMGUS i have more posts in this game than anyone
I don't think you know what that means.
Also, again, you've been acti-lurking
It means omg you suck and iv'e given my reads twice and now ill do it agian
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1. Jake is Awesome town dude
2. Big G is a too early too tell kind of lurking
3. RR IS SCUM
4. SA too early too tell
5. Calm may be scum
6. McG looks town
7. IDP is newbie so no
8. Lek is lurking so can't tell
9. Dylan looks new to me can't tell
10. PPS look's sorta scum but not really
11. Robz is probably town
12. Ee looks twon
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I'm not doing this again. Can someone else step in?
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doing what again i'm not lurking or act-lurking
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Vote: Jake this looks all too familiar... I'd say more but I can't right now.
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Seriously no one has a case against me other thank lurking/acti-lurking which i haven't been doing at all so why is everyone voting for me
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Okay, I'll make a list because maybe that'll finally get through to you.
1. OMGUS refers to voting for someone because they voted for you.
2. Posting your reads over and over aren't helpful. Look at Eevee's list; try to make something more like that.
3. Reposting your reads list over and over is just cluttering the thread, it's not helpful at all and it's actually slightly annoying.
4. Might as well throw in here that using proper grammar goes a long way. People will take you a lot more seriously if you spell things right, utilize capital letters and periods, and if you don't make up ridiculous nicknames for everyone.
PPE: 2
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Seriously no one has a case against me other thank lurking/acti-lurking which i haven't been doing at all so why is everyone voting for me
You. have. been. acti. lurking.
Why don't you read/reread the thread to try and get a grasp as to why people might be voting for you?
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doing what again i'm not lurking or act-lurking
acti-lurking = active lurking: To post a bunch of useless crap that makes you seem active, potentially the most active, as a way to bring attention to how towny you are by posting.
Just posting the same reads over and over again is not towny. There has been enough content after your read that you could have reread at least a few people to have something new by now, anyway.
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1. those are good nicknames
2. Where is Big G
3. Iv'e reposted my reads once
4. Ee big case on me is based off things that i do no matter what so it non alignment indicative and he doesn't know me so he would think those are scummy but they aren't for me
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There are some things that are scummy for anyone.
One of those are acti-lurking. Not providing content and cluttering the thread is scummy, even if you think it's 'part of your meta'
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Vote: Jake
That's L-2
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After a more of a re-read, I'd like to vote: McGarnacle.
Yeah that seems...odd
I'm not getting strong scum reads on anyone yet, but McGarnacle's set himself us as the innocent bewildered newbie, which was exactly what I did when I was scum. Vets have a habit of believing it from a newbie, and there are lots of extreme vets around. There's another thing, too, but ask me again sometime later in D1.
Just did a re-read of McG, which took all of 30 seconds, and I don't see it.
His three early-game posts all essentially set up how newbie he is, how he can't read most people etc. Then he makes a non-alignment-indicative newbie error to underscore that. Then he gets jumpy over PPS's scum-team-call thing.. it's a shame Eevee diffused it so fast, as PPS said already. He also jumped right onto a a wagon on our actual newbie at #81. Which of those things doesn't work as "look at me I'm an innocent newbie; move along, no scums to see here, kthanxbai"?
Also.. how similar in play-style would you say Eevee and PPS are?
I had exactly the same though when I saw that one
I've never won a game of mafia, and I've always been town. So on the one hand, that's good, on the other, its bad.
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Fine you want new reads here
Big G is major lurking has posted less than 5 times in this game so possible lynch
RR is just giving me headaches
PPS may be scum just kind of throwing his vote around not contributing so for once he actuality is acti-lurking
Ee is very likely to be town
McG is just kind of following the herd of where people are voting
Dylan is just null
robz, Lek, IDP and calm are kind of lurking but still null
SA is null
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Also McG may be scum just trying to lay low though
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No, we don't want new reads. Or at least I don't :P
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No, we don't want new reads. Or at least I don't :P
You don't want anything except to lynch me
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No, we don't want new reads. Or at least I don't :P
You don't want anything except to lynch me
I just want you to stop acti-lurking. Here are a few ways you could do that:
1. Posting less is actually okay, and you can do that!
2. Make insightful comments on things other people say.
3. Possibly engage in setup talk.
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PPS may be scum just kind of throwing his vote around not contributing so for once he actuality is acti-lurking
You clearly don't get what that word means. I made as much of a case on you as I'm currently allowed to. I admit I threw my vote for funsies on SA but my vote is about all I have to work with right now other than your obvious scumness. My posts are the exact opposite of acti-lurking.
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No, we don't want new reads. Or at least I don't :P
You don't want anything except to lynch me
I just want you to stop acti-lurking. Here are a few ways you could do that:
1. Posting less is actually okay, and you can do that!
2. Make insightful comments on things other people say.
3. Possibly engage in setup talk.
1. But I gotta give my opinions
2. I do or will try to more
3. It's to early to talk setup talk
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PPS may be scum just kind of throwing his vote around not contributing so for once he actuality is acti-lurking
You clearly don't get what that word means. I made as much of a case on you as I'm currently allowed to. I admit I threw my vote for funsies on SA but my vote is about all I have to work with right now other than your obvious scumness. My posts are the exact opposite of acti-lurking.
You had not posted that much before today irl
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Okay Jake, you do whatever you want.
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Okay Jake, you do whatever you want.
Man how about you help move the game along too because i have
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Fine you want new reads here
Big G is major lurking has posted less than 5 times in this game so possible lynch
RR is just giving me headaches
PPS may be scum just kind of throwing his vote around not contributing so for once he actuality is acti-lurking
Ee is very likely to be town
McG is just kind of following the herd of where people are voting
Dylan is just null
robz, Lek, IDP and calm are kind of lurking but still null
SA is null
Just been busy. Not really lurking. I feel like when I have commented, they have had content in them. I've been commenting on many of the major developments.
At this point, I would just vote for Jake so he would stop posting so much. He's taking over the thread, and making scum hunting impossible because everyone is just talking about him. There is no way that he is scum though. His last few posts have shown a desire to actually live past D1, and he is seriously the easiest wagon to push, because I don't think people feel too bad if he is town, because he is pretty anti-town because he lets people not make comments about the rest of the game.
Eevee also looks town from his big post. Enough for a D1 pass. Definitely a player to watch out for later though.
Top D1ers are eevee, Dylan, Jake.
Other towniers: IDPTG, PPS (although this one is much less so)
I would love to lynch a lurker today. Calamitas seems like a good one. Usually he is more dynamic.
Robz, Lekkit, or McGarnacle also seem like good choices.
Other possibilities: RR (voting for Jake at this point)
unvote
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PPS may be scum just kind of throwing his vote around not contributing so for once he actuality is acti-lurking
You clearly don't get what that word means. I made as much of a case on you as I'm currently allowed to. I admit I threw my vote for funsies on SA but my vote is about all I have to work with right now other than your obvious scumness. My posts are the exact opposite of acti-lurking.
You had not posted that much before today irl
It's not how much I post it's what I do when I post. The less I post and the more I do the less like acti-lurking it is. You post much and do nearly nothing thus you are the acti-lurker. All that said, I'm not voting you for acti-lurking, I'm voting you for looking like scum!Jake that I have seen before; on D1, no less.
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Fine you want new reads here
Big G is major lurking has posted less than 5 times in this game so possible lynch
RR is just giving me headaches
PPS may be scum just kind of throwing his vote around not contributing so for once he actuality is acti-lurking
Ee is very likely to be town
McG is just kind of following the herd of where people are voting
Dylan is just null
robz, Lek, IDP and calm are kind of lurking but still null
SA is null
Just been busy. Not really lurking. I feel like when I have commented, they have had content in them. I've been commenting on many of the major developments.
At this point, I would just vote for Jake so he would stop posting so much. He's taking over the thread, and making scum hunting impossible because everyone is just talking about him. There is no way that he is scum though. His last few posts have shown a desire to actually live past D1, and he is seriously the easiest wagon to push, because I don't think people feel too bad if he is town, because he is pretty anti-town because he lets people not make comments about the rest of the game.
Eevee also looks town from his big post. Enough for a D1 pass. Definitely a player to watch out for later though.
Top D1ers are eevee, Dylan, Jake.
Other towniers: IDPTG, PPS (although this one is much less so)
I would love to lynch a lurker today. Calamitas seems like a good one. Usually he is more dynamic.
Robz, Lekkit, or McGarnacle also seem like good choices.
Other possibilities: RR (voting for Jake at this point)
unvote
I could get down with lynching calm, RR, McG, and Lek
My top order is RR>McG>calm>Lek
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PPS may be scum just kind of throwing his vote around not contributing so for once he actuality is acti-lurking
You clearly don't get what that word means. I made as much of a case on you as I'm currently allowed to. I admit I threw my vote for funsies on SA but my vote is about all I have to work with right now other than your obvious scumness. My posts are the exact opposite of acti-lurking.
You had not posted that much before today irl
It's not how much I post it's what I do when I post. The less I post and the more I do the less like acti-lurking it is. You post much and do nearly nothing thus you are the acti-lurker. All that said, I'm not voting you for acti-lurking, I'm voting you for looking like scum!Jake that I have seen before; on D1, no less.
Boi i'm always like this it's non alignment indicative
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At this point, I would just vote for Jake so he would stop posting so much.
Could we, as a thread, just decide to stop engaging, and just kind of work around it till things get better?
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At this point, I would just vote for Jake so he would stop posting so much.
Could we, as a thread, just decide to stop engaging, and just kind of work around it till things get better?
If we ignore him maybe he'll go away?
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At this point, I would just vote for Jake so he would stop posting so much.
Could we, as a thread, just decide to stop engaging, and just kind of work around it till things get better?
I'm now actuality getting serious on my reads and starting to put less flavor posts in
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At this point, I would just vote for Jake so he would stop posting so much.
Could we, as a thread, just decide to stop engaging, and just kind of work around it till things get better?
That might be a good strategy
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My reads-
Jake- My strongest scumread. For all the reasons already listed.
SA- Feels like town, but in a different way then in that first game ;).
RR- Maybe he and Jake are the scumteam just putting on a show and distracting us?
Also this is very suspicious:
No, we don't want new reads. Or at least I don't :P
You don't want anything except to lynch me
That's really all I have.
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How is that suspicious?
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Because you don't want reads
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The more I think about this, the more I think RR and Jake are both scum, and RR is coaching Jake through staged discussions which don't actually provide content. If you think about it, RR is pretty much doing what Jake is doing.
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To be fair, my only experience with RR, he did exactly that and was town. I don't think today makes jake look scummy.
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To be fair, my only experience with RR, he did exactly that and was town. I don't think today makes jake look scummy.
It actually doesn't, but it is not towny either (he has been heard of playing like that as scum as well). It is just very anti-town. Will have plenty of time tonight and tomorrow, so I will catch up then.
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Before I say something, I should ask: What are the rules about referencing other specific games? Are finished games ok, while in progress ones are obviously off limits? Or should that just not happen in general?
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Before I say something, I should ask: What are the rules about referencing other specific games? Are finished games ok, while in progress ones are obviously off limits? Or should that just not happen in general?
You got it. If the game is done, you can reference, quote, link, etc.
If the game hasn't finished, don't say anything about it.
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Before I say something, I should ask: What are the rules about referencing other specific games? Are finished games ok, while in progress ones are obviously off limits? Or should that just not happen in general?
I had a similar question and I checked with LaLight on this one before posting.
Calamitas is looking scummy to me. We've gotten three posts, two saying he'll catch up later and one agreeing with a read without saying anything new. However, Calamitas hasn't been idle; this game started on the 13th and since then he's been posting to f.ds in general, just not this game. Lurking that hard when we're all focused on Jake seems like a great way to avoid notice and make it to D2.
vote: Calamitas
PPE: 1
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Before I say something, I should ask: What are the rules about referencing other specific games? Are finished games ok, while in progress ones are obviously off limits? Or should that just not happen in general?
I had a similar question and I checked with LaLight on this one before posting.
Calamitas is looking scummy to me. We've gotten three posts, two saying he'll catch up later and one agreeing with a read without saying anything new. However, Calamitas hasn't been idle; this game started on the 13th and since then he's been posting to f.ds in general, just not this game. Lurking that hard when we're all focused on Jake seems like a great way to avoid notice and make it to D2.
vote: Calamitas
PPE: 1
Yeah, that is suspicious. I still think Jake is a better target, though. I would say Jake>Calamitas>RR
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After a more of a re-read, I'd like to vote: McGarnacle.
Yeah that seems...odd
I'm not getting strong scum reads on anyone yet, but McGarnacle's set himself us as the innocent bewildered newbie, which was exactly what I did when I was scum. Vets have a habit of believing it from a newbie, and there are lots of extreme vets around. There's another thing, too, but ask me again sometime later in D1.
Just did a re-read of McG, which took all of 30 seconds, and I don't see it.
His three early-game posts all essentially set up how newbie he is, how he can't read most people etc. Then he makes a non-alignment-indicative newbie error to underscore that. Then he gets jumpy over PPS's scum-team-call thing.. it's a shame Eevee diffused it so fast, as PPS said already. He also jumped right onto a a wagon on our actual newbie at #81. Which of those things doesn't work as "look at me I'm an innocent newbie; move along, no scums to see here, kthanxbai"?
Also.. how similar in play-style would you say Eevee and PPS are?
*Not* similar? Eevee is unlike virtually anyone else, he's the friendliest player there is. I think of PPS as much gruffer. I mean, they're both really good players. I tend to think of Eevee as a little more reserved as mafia than as town. Not sure about PPS play differences.
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Just read everything but didn't find anything essential, though.
Jake is just playing like his usual self which is alignment-unindicative and anti-town.
My initial impression of McGarnacle got a little enhanced though, his "I have played like that before and was town" seemed quite self-aware.
Rest absolute null.
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Before I say something, I should ask: What are the rules about referencing other specific games? Are finished games ok, while in progress ones are obviously off limits? Or should that just not happen in general?
You got it. If the game is done, you can reference, quote, link, etc.
If the game hasn't finished, don't say anything about it.
Ok. So I went back and reread all of RMM37 D1 to compare scum RR to this game RR. While I didn't see anything concrete to go on, my general impression is that RR has at least been more pro-town if not towny so far, so at least for now I would be against an RR wagon. I think that's pretty unlikely to happen, but I think I saw at least someone besides Jake say they could vote for him.
I also agree with everyone who has been saying Jake's play so far has been anti-town, but I didn't want to jump on the wagon and make it L-1 because if he isn't scum, only one scum would have had to jump on and to hammer. That being said, if he keeps derailing or dominating the thread and he does get lynched, I won't be too upset, even if he's town.
Just read everything but didn't find anything essential, though.
Jake is just playing like his usual self which is alignment-unindicative and anti-town.
My initial impression of McGarnacle got a little enhanced though, his "I have played like that before and was town" seemed quite self-aware.
Rest absolute null.
I'm not sure if reading someone as self-aware actually makes that person more likely to be town. A really good player should be self-aware and able to compare different playstyles to your own, regardless of what alignment you currently are. So far I don't have much of an opinion on McG, but the example used to make him look towny is not enough to move me that direction on him.
Outside of that comment, overall Calamitas still didn't add anything new after being called out for lurking. I'm not going to vote for him yet, since there is still several irl days left of D1 and I totally understand being busy, but as a matter of anti-lurking, I wouldn't see a Calamitas wagon as the worst thing for the game.
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In the game I played with McG he did not play like that and he was town so his defense was false
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Also.. how similar in play-style would you say Eevee and PPS are?
*Not* similar? Eevee is unlike virtually anyone else, he's the friendliest player there is. I think of PPS as much gruffer. I mean, they're both really good players. I tend to think of Eevee as a little more reserved as mafia than as town. Not sure about PPS play differences.
I'm wondering whether trap diffusing is a possible tell for a vet being on a scumteam with a newbie... PPS will understand what I mean :-)
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Just read everything but didn't find anything essential, though.
Jake is just playing like his usual self which is alignment-unindicative and anti-town.
My initial impression of McGarnacle got a little enhanced though, his "I have played like that before and was town" seemed quite self-aware.
Rest absolute null.
This is an interesting post. I could see it coming from busy!town, saying that "look I don't have much time, but I would like to contribute more so here are my reads". They look like they are good gut reads from not having read very much.
It could also be scum trying to show that they don't have any reads yet. I think this second option is much more likely. I think Calamitas is trying to play too much into his "I don't really care much for D1" meta.
vote: Calamitas
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In the game I played with McG he did not play like that and he was town so his defense was false
Um, we are not allowed to reference that game.
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In the game I played with McG he did not play like that and he was town so his defense was false
Um, we are not allowed to reference that game.
What game I referenced u not a game
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In the game I played with McG he did not play like that and he was town so his defense was false
Um, we are not allowed to reference that game.
What game I referenced u not a game
Um...
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In the game I played with McG he did not play like that and he was town so his defense was false
Um, we are not allowed to reference that game.
What game I referenced u not a game
In the game I played with McG
That game is ongoing, so we can't reference it.
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In the game I played with McG he did not play like that and he was town so his defense was false
Um, we are not allowed to reference that game.
What game I referenced u not a game
In the game I played with McG
That game is ongoing, so we can't reference it.
Yeah Jake, just because you didn't include the name of the game doesn't mean you didn't reference the game.
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Yeah, Calamitas didn't add anything. I don't know how much I can blame him, though. I feel like there's not a whole lot else to comment on. Really good for Dylan and Eevee for some how finding lots of things to say.
I still say Jake's coming off as a self-aware troll this time, and that's kind of scummy. But of course, lynching the first person to get wagoned is usually a mistake. Actually, it usually doesn't even happen... I fully expect this wagon to dissipate. And in fact, to be perfectly honest, if I was on a scum team with Jake, I would tell him to get wagoned early because early wagons die out. Eevee (for certain) and PPS (maybe) can confirm that this has been my thinking.
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In the game I played with McG he did not play like that and he was town so his defense was false
Um, we are not allowed to reference that game.
What game I referenced u not a game
In the game I played with McG
That game is ongoing, so we can't reference it.
Well, it just ended, which means I can add some clarity to my case on Jake. He acted like this in our first game together, and turned out to be scum. Also, I am playing this game just like I played that one, except now I'm more active. I'm more sure Jake is scum by the minute. Also:
I'm not getting strong scum reads on anyone yet, but McGarnacle's set himself us as the innocent bewildered newbie, which was exactly what I did when I was scum. Vets have a habit of believing it from a newbie, and there are lots of extreme vets around. There's another thing, too, but ask me again sometime later in D1.
In my other two games here on f.ds, I mentioned if I had no idea who was scum, just like I am this game. Both times, I was town.
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The problem is that Jake has played like that everywhere I have seen him.
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I don't particularly think Jake's scum, but he's a decent D1 lynch and putting pressure on Jake can sometimes yield some stuff.
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I don't particularly think Jake's scum, but he's a decent D1 lynch and putting pressure on Jake can sometimes yield some stuff.
Can you explain this to me? Why would a non-scum be a good lynch?
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I don't particularly think Jake's scum, but he's a decent D1 lynch and putting pressure on Jake can sometimes yield some stuff.
Can you explain this to me? Why would a non-scum be a good lynch?
Well I have little faith in my own reads, and we're pretty unlikely to lynch scum D1. And I don't have a town read on him, I'd say he's null.
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I don't particularly think Jake's scum, but he's a decent D1 lynch and putting pressure on Jake can sometimes yield some stuff.
If you don't particularly think Jake's scum, he's not a decent Day 1 lynch. This is pretty obvious anti-town thinking. I mean, if we all just lynch Jake because he's annoying, we don't gain that much. That kind of lynch isn't even great for later analysis, because everyone will just say the same thing.
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I don't particularly think Jake's scum, but he's a decent D1 lynch and putting pressure on Jake can sometimes yield some stuff.
If you don't particularly think Jake's scum, he's not a decent Day 1 lynch. This is pretty obvious anti-town thinking. I mean, if we all just lynch Jake because he's annoying, we don't gain that much. That kind of lynch isn't even great for later analysis, because everyone will just say the same thing.
He's a decent D1 lynch because he's very difficult to read and I've been flip flopping on him like I did in Portal Mafia.
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I don't particularly think Jake's scum, but he's a decent D1 lynch and putting pressure on Jake can sometimes yield some stuff.
If you don't particularly think Jake's scum, he's not a decent Day 1 lynch. This is pretty obvious anti-town thinking. I mean, if we all just lynch Jake because he's annoying, we don't gain that much. That kind of lynch isn't even great for later analysis, because everyone will just say the same thing.
He's a decent D1 lynch because he's very difficult to read and I've been flip flopping on him like I did in Portal Mafia.
"Flip flopping on him" sounds different from "don't particularly think he's scum"
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I don't particularly think Jake's scum, but he's a decent D1 lynch and putting pressure on Jake can sometimes yield some stuff.
If you don't particularly think Jake's scum, he's not a decent Day 1 lynch. This is pretty obvious anti-town thinking. I mean, if we all just lynch Jake because he's annoying, we don't gain that much. That kind of lynch isn't even great for later analysis, because everyone will just say the same thing.
He's a decent D1 lynch because he's very difficult to read and I've been flip flopping on him like I did in Portal Mafia.
"Flip flopping on him" sounds different from "don't particularly think he's scum"
At this point in time I don't particularly think he's scum.
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I don't particularly think Jake's scum, but he's a decent D1 lynch and putting pressure on Jake can sometimes yield some stuff.
If you don't particularly think Jake's scum, he's not a decent Day 1 lynch. This is pretty obvious anti-town thinking. I mean, if we all just lynch Jake because he's annoying, we don't gain that much. That kind of lynch isn't even great for later analysis, because everyone will just say the same thing.
Being annoying got me lynched in my 1st game of IRL mafia.
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vote: Jake
I think Evee made a good case on him, and in most games of mafia (here or IRL) I feel like the mafia is more aggressive. Of course, SA was a prominent exception in the first game we played together, but lying low doesn't seem to be in Jake's character.
Key points to take from this: Jumps on Eevee's case. Says mafia is more likely to be aggressive, but Jake is probably agressive all the time.
My reads-
Jake- My strongest scumread. For all the reasons already listed.
SA- Feels like town, but in a different way then in that first game ;).
RR- Maybe he and Jake are the scumteam just putting on a show and distracting us?
"For all the reasons already listed." Let's take a look at Eevee's case.
I reread Jake, it's hard to make sense of him when the posting varies so much. Before RR's mini-case, there was mostly just random chatter (I don't get the references to grammar), but after he was quick to outline how he is playing the same as ever, and definitely isn't lurking. Being conscious of such things, especially as you have a high post count but not much substance, feels like a scum trait to me. You know, if someone accused me of playing different or actilurking, I wouldn't feel the need to dispute that it might be true, I'd try to reflect why it was and maybe look to change my ways if something I was doing was unhelpful (exhibit A, I kind of screwed up PPS's plan, had I thought for 15 seconds before hitting send, I could have used a different wording or commented later when we had heard from IDPTG).
Basically. Eevee is accusing him for trying to hind behind his meta. And defend it. I'm not sure what Eevee defines as a mini-case, but I can't really find it. I think it might be that RR said he was acting "different" than usual.
So, we have acting different and hiding behind his meta as reasons for being scummy.
Also this is very suspicious:
No, we don't want new reads. Or at least I don't :P
You don't want anything except to lynch me
That's really all I have.
I don't read this as suspicious, I read this as someone being tired of being hounded for basically not much. However, I have no previous experience of Jake and RR together, so there might be something there.
Well, it just ended, which means I can add some clarity to my case on Jake. He acted like this in our first game together, and turned out to be scum. Also, I am playing this game just like I played that one, except now I'm more active. I'm more sure Jake is scum by the minute.
Acted how? Posted a lot? Actilurking? Refering to his meta? It's great that you're clarifying "your" case on Jake. But I don't really see what your case is or what part of it this is supposed to clarify.
I'm not getting strong scum reads on anyone yet, but McGarnacle's set himself us as the innocent bewildered newbie, which was exactly what I did when I was scum. Vets have a habit of believing it from a newbie, and there are lots of extreme vets around. There's another thing, too, but ask me again sometime later in D1.
In my other two games here on f.ds, I mentioned if I had no idea who was scum, just like I am this game. Both times, I was town.
You know you JUST said you're "more sure Jake is scum by the minute."? You're actually refering to and hiding behind your own meta. The very thing you agreed with Eevee was the scummy thing from Jake. Add to that the fact that what you're saying is not actually true. I think this very much looks like you're just hopping on to a wagon that formed, and didn't want to get off it since it got some traction. And now you're "forced" into the position that Jake is scummy. To me, this is easily the scummiest behavior I've seen this game.
Vote: McGarnacle
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Vote Count 1.4
SpaceAnemone (1): JakeTheBaseballGod22
JakeTheBaseballGod22 (5): Robz888, Eevee, McGarnacle, pingpongsam, Roadrunner7671
McGarnacle (3): SpaceAnemone, Lekkit, Calamitas
Calamitas (2): IDontPlayThisGame, GKrieg13
Not Voting (1): Dylan32
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday Nov 20 at 1 pm
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I'm actually feeling good about the Jake wagon because I think scum would have already run it through if he were town. I'm suspicious of SA and Lekkit for trying to divert to McGroceries as I don't see the case there at all.
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vote: McGarnacle
Thought I was already voting vor him.
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pingpongsam, I assume you have no objections to the Calamitas case, then?
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vote: Jake
I think Evee made a good case on him, and in most games of mafia (here or IRL) I feel like the mafia is more aggressive. Of course, SA was a prominent exception in the first game we played together, but lying low doesn't seem to be in Jake's character.
Key points to take from this: Jumps on Eevee's case. Says mafia is more likely to be aggressive, but Jake is probably agressive all the time.
He was in one other game, where he played like this and was scum.
As for hiding behind my meta, I don't really get what you are saying. In my first game, I aggressively went after someone (Zigaton), while in my 2nd game, I was more apathetic and never really committed to anyone.
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In my other two games here on f.ds, I mentioned if I had no idea who was scum, just like I am this game. Both times, I was town.
So. "I was town in the other games I played. I played like I do now in those."
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In my other two games here on f.ds, I mentioned if I had no idea who was scum, just like I am this game. Both times, I was town.
So. "I was town in the other games I played. I played like I do now in those."
Oh, okay, I get it.
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I don't think that apply McG because I always play like that and that was my first game so you can't base that I am scum because you don't know how i play as town.
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and McG is just spewing out things trying to defend himself. I don't buy any of his defenses Vote: McGarnacle
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vote: McGarnacle
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I'm actually feeling good about the Jake wagon because I think scum would have already run it through if he were town. I'm suspicious of SA and Lekkit for trying to divert to McGroceries as I don't see the case there at all.
Jake is someone I try not to vote any more (when it's not necessary, that is!) because I'm so infuriated by him that I can't be sure it's not just OMGUS. So looking elsewhere is more like trying to find a quiet place to think rather than stoking his ego with any more attention.
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I don't think that apply McG because I always play like that and that was my first game so you can't base that I am scum because you don't know how i play as town.
This is a scumslip, right?
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I don't think that apply McG because I always play like that and that was my first game so you can't base that I am scum because you don't know how i play as town.
This is a scumslip, right?
No I was just pointing that out
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Regardless, I don't like it enough that I'm ok with Jake. L-1 if I remember correctly.
If this goes through and he flips town, I will be a bit suspicious of pps.
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Regardless, I don't like it enough that I'm ok with Jake. L-1 if I remember correctly.
If this goes through and he flips town, I will be a bit suspicious of pps.
meant to say vote: Jake
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Regardless, I don't like it enough that I'm ok with Jake. L-1 if I remember correctly.
If this goes through and he flips town, I will be a bit suspicious of pps.
meant to say vote: Jake
Why pps and not EFHW
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Regardless, I don't like it enough that I'm ok with Jake. L-1 if I remember correctly.
If this goes through and he flips town, I will be a bit suspicious of pps.
meant to say vote: Jake
Why pps and not EFHw
Wth my phone just posted this to the wrong game sorry
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Regardless, I don't like it enough that I'm ok with Jake. L-1 if I remember correctly.
If this goes through and he flips town, I will be a bit suspicious of pps.
meant to say vote: Jake
Why pps and not EFHw
Wth my phone just posted this to the wrong game sorry
This is why I only play in one game at a time.
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Regardless, I don't like it enough that I'm ok with Jake. L-1 if I remember correctly.
If this goes through and he flips town, I will be a bit suspicious of pps.
It'll be awesome sauce. Suspicion is my home territory.
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Okay, I think this is L-1
Any last words Jake?
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Ummm there's no good reason to lynch me so why
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Wanna claim?
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I've been away, will catch up with everything in a couple of hours.
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Actually, unvote, I want to hammer.
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Can I do that?
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Can I do that?
Why McG
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Can I do that?
Why McG
Because I want to. Is their a rule about who gets to hammer? I've never done it before ;).
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You can hammer if you want
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No why are u voting me
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Can I do that?
Why McG
Because I want to. Is their a rule about who gets to hammer? I've never done it before ;).
I gave up the hammer to keep the wagon moving. I'm probably the only one who cares. I'll concede this one but only because you're a good sport about me messing with your name all the time.
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I didn't even know I had votes on me until you said L-1
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I didn't even know I had votes on me until you said L-1
Really? You've been pretty hysterical about it since the first one.
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I thought I had 3 not 6
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Can I do that?
Why McG
Because I want to. Is their a rule about who gets to hammer? I've never done it before ;).
I gave up the hammer to keep the wagon moving. I'm probably the only one who cares. I'll concede this one but only because you're a good sport about me messing with your name all the time.
Aww, thanks!
Okay, lets get one more vote.
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I didn't even know I had votes on me until you said L-1
Really? You've been pretty hysterical about it since the first one.
lol
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Vote Count 1.4
SpaceAnemone (1): JakeTheBaseballGod22
JakeTheBaseballGod22 (5): Robz888, Eevee, McGarnacle, pingpongsam, Roadrunner7671
McGarnacle (3): SpaceAnemone, Lekkit, Calamitas
Calamitas (2): IDontPlayThisGame, GKrieg13
Not Voting (1): Dylan32
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday Nov 20 at 1 pm
I thought I had 3 not 6
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Jake, for better or worse, at the moment it looks like this is going to happen, so if you have anything to claim, it would probably be a good time to do it.
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A day 1 lynch based on meta... This will give us a ton to go on... NOT!
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Ok screw this I am the COP my scumreads are RR and McG
RR for being very suspicious in this game
McG for tunneling/hammering me for most of the game
So Vote: McGarnacle
May not post agian because definitely dead N-1
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Oh and btw I always die D-1 or D-2 for my meta and it's crap ok guys just find actual reasons to lynch me in future games because this "meta" stuff is crap
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Ok screw this I am the COP my scumreads are RR and McG
RR for being very suspicious in this game
McG for tunneling/hammering me for most of the game
So Vote: McGarnacle
May not post agian because definitely dead N-1
Well, if that's true, that would be enough for unvote.
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Oh and btw I always die D-1 or D-2 for my meta and it's crap ok guys just find actual reasons to lynch me in future games because this "meta" stuff is crap
Also, I don't want to tell anyone to not be themselves, but if you have realized that people overwhelmingly believe your meta is scummy, maybe you should consider dialing down some of the behaviors that people complain about most in game.
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IIRC there's no way for us to know if there is or is not a cop in this game. This is a fantastic claim for scum to make because guess what scum knows; everyone's alignment!
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I mean a pressured claim, not just for funsies.
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IIRC there's no way for us to know if there is or is not a cop in this game. This is a fantastic claim for scum to make because guess what scum knows; everyone's alignment!
Wait, was that in the setup? I don't remember seeing it.
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Jake probably is the cop, I just really want everyone to be as devious and crazy as myself. Keeps me paranoid. I'm still voting him.
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unvote
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IIRC there's no way for us to know if there is or is not a cop in this game. This is a fantastic claim for scum to make because guess what scum knows; everyone's alignment!
Wait, was that in the setup? I don't remember seeing it.
Hell if I know or if I'm even gonna look. I recall there being no real info at all about roles in the setup.
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Jake?
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IIRC there's no way for us to know if there is or is not a cop in this game. This is a fantastic claim for scum to make because guess what scum knows; everyone's alignment!
Wait, was that in the setup? I don't remember seeing it.
Hell if I know or if I'm even gonna look. I recall there being no real info at all about roles in the setup.
So how would you know that scums knows everyone alignment?...
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Jake?
What calm
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Any counterclaims? The Jake wagon just seems too good to be wrong.
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Jake?
What calm
Claim your flavor name please!
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I am vineyard and why are you so anxious to kill me McG. So much scum vibes are coming to from you
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Jake?
What calm
Claim your flavor name please!
I don't like this at all
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I am vineyard and why are you so anxious to kill me McG. So much scum vibes are coming to from you
If no counterclaims come in, I'll believe you. I've unvoted already.
I'm REALLY curious how PPS knows that scum knows everyone's alignment.
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Jake?
What calm
Claim your flavor name please!
I don't like this at all
Why?
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IIRC there's no way for us to know if there is or is not a cop in this game. This is a fantastic claim for scum to make because guess what scum knows; everyone's alignment!
Wait, was that in the setup? I don't remember seeing it.
Hell if I know or if I'm even gonna look. I recall there being no real info at all about roles in the setup.
So how would you know that scums knows everyone alignment?...
I think you have a point but are going to try to make this a scumslip and it's not that all. I was speaking very much in generality.
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Plus if I don't die tonight I'll just get lynched tomorrow because everyone will think I lied and am scum and RR(you scum) PPS is always mega supisios so he needs conformation
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Jake?
What calm
Claim your flavor name please!
I don't like this at all
Why?
Whether someone is a Victory, Action or Treasure card really matters. I suspect it matters to the point where Jake's Cop might investigate Victories and Actions correctly, but Treasures incorrectly, or something like that. Knowing Jake's flavor name and thus knowing that he is a Victory card does absolutely nothing for his claim IMO
PPE 2
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PPS it's ok to get targeted by the scum team of McG and RR
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Plus if I don't die tonight I'll just get lynched tomorrow because everyone will think I lied and am scum and RR(you scum) PPS is always mega supisios so he needs conformation
Serious question: If you investigate me and get a 'town' result, will you report it and admit to being wrong?
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I just remembered that when I was explaining Mafia to Jake the only power role he talked about was Cop, so I'm 90-93% sure he would claim Cop as scum.
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I still don't want to lynch him D1 though.
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I'm still pretty sure that when you were explains it to me that was the only role I knew and two I would not claim cop if I was scum
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two I would not claim cop if I was scum
Why not?
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Because it's to important of a roll to claim
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And btw I'm gonna be posting a lot because I won't get to any more after tonight
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And btw I'm gonna be posting a lot because I won't get to any more after tonight
You make it sound like you're going somewhere without wifi or something...
If that's the case, you should probably post it here: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3621.msg71123#msg71123
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I meant after N-1
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I was expecting you to be spy
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IIRC there's no way for us to know if there is or is not a cop in this game. This is a fantastic claim for scum to make because guess what scum knows; everyone's alignment!
Wait, was that in the setup? I don't remember seeing it.
Hell if I know or if I'm even gonna look. I recall there being no real info at all about roles in the setup.
So how would you know that scums knows everyone alignment?...
I think you have a point but are going to try to make this a scumslip and it's not that all. I was speaking very much in generality.
What do you mean? It sounds like a scumslip to me!
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And btw I'm gonna be posting a lot because I won't get to any more after tonight
Are you meaning that you expect to die in the night, therefore you don't want to participate any more? Or just that you'll be VLA, which seems to be RR's interpretation?
If you are cop, it's a super-useful role for us to have around, and there could be a few ways to keep you alive, so I think you should absolutely stay engaged with the game so you know who to read in the night. This is your chance to be properly usefully pro-town! Though I have to say, I do like Dylan's suggestion that might want to tone down some of your more extreme Jake-behaviours, too.
PPE 3
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Ignore this message if it goes through. Tried to post an actual post and I keep getting error "The message body was left empty" despite the fact it definitely was not empty.
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I meant after N-1
Honestly I think your chance of getting killed at night is only around 50% or so.
Although being a cop makes you helpful at night, you're not the most helpful player during the day, so if they strongly suspect someone else of being a PR they might strike there instead.
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Ignore this message if it goes through. Tried to post an actual post and I keep getting error "The message body was left empty" despite the fact it definitely was not empty.
Were you quoting ~5 things?
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Ignore this message if it goes through. Tried to post an actual post and I keep getting error "The message body was left empty" despite the fact it definitely was not empty.
/ignore
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Ignore this message if it goes through. Tried to post an actual post and I keep getting error "The message body was left empty" despite the fact it definitely was not empty.
I get that sometimes too
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Ignore this message if it goes through. Tried to post an actual post and I keep getting error "The message body was left empty" despite the fact it definitely was not empty.
Were you quoting ~5 things?
Yeah I was trying to quote your last message in the chain about not liking Calamitas's demand for Jake to claim flavor. It had 6 quotes. Anyway, here is what I've been trying to say for like 10 minutes haha...
Yeah, I actually don't think I like that either. The only thing Jake claiming a flavor name would do is give other PRs with card type limits (if those are in fact how the PRs work in this game) the knowledge of whether or not their ability can affect him.
Out there theory time:
Using the assumptions that 1) there is a cop 2) scum doesn't know for sure but assumes there is a medic type role or something that can protect the cop 3) PRs do have limitations regarding what type of cards they can affect - Calamitas is a scum roleblocker (or at least knows there is one) and he wanted to know if his ability would affect Jake. This would let him know if he could stop Jake's investigative ability while scum tries to NK the medic (or whatever the protector type role is called here on the forums)
I know that is a pretty specific set of assumptions, but it's just some thoughts.
Quite a few PPE since I originally typed it...
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There are no restrictions for Pr's I think
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Never mind there are
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There are no restrictions for Pr's I think
If you are indeed the cop, you might not have any, but I could see how other ones would have some to make the flavor actually matter to game play.
Also, the only reason I am inclined to think all the standard PRs are in this game (which would support my assumptions above) is that if I am not mistaken, this is the or one of the first setups LaLight has created, and so they were likely to keep it close to standard with just enough of a twist on the roles to make it interesting and just different enough, but not enough to make it too different and harder to keep track of compared to vanilla mafia. That bit of metagaming is pretty much all I have to go on right now.
PPE1
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Never mind there are
aaand Jake goes back and rereads his QT haha
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Never mind there are
aaand Jake goes back and rereads his QT haha
Or he reads the giant bolded pink letters, the most noteworthy thing in the setup.
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He said:
There are no restrictions for Pr's I think
emphasis mine
The setup says:
"The type has a real significance for all the PRs."
Setup doesn't say anything about restrictions. For all we know it could be boosts to certain types or added effects, not restrictions.
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Admittedly, if he wasn't paying as close attention to the wording as I was, he could have easily done exactly what you said, so I guess you could have a point.
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Never mind there are
aaand Jake goes back and rereads his QT haha
Or he reads the giant bolded pink letters, the most noteworthy thing in the setup.
Possible pr slip
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Also I don't know the viability of this because I've never seen it done but in other games it been brought up it what do people think about a mass claim
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Also I don't know the viability of this because I've never seen it done but in other games it been brought up it what do people think about a mass claim
1. Don't talk about other games.
2. Not on D1
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Why can't I talk about done games?
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Why can't I talk about done games?
That's not how your post reads...at all
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Why can't I talk about done games?
That's not how your post reads...at all
What my post says that in other games (m87) it was brought up early and what are the possibility in this game and why don't you want one. Afraid you'll get caught as scum
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There's nothing that says you can't talk specifically about finished games, but you didn't really need to mention "other games" at all. And to avoid confusion, if you are referencing finished games, include the game number so we know it is done.
In this instance, all you needed to do was just mention a mass claim because I believe everyone here either knows what it is or could figure it out very easily. RR is right, not D1 though.
PPE2
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IIRC there's no way for us to know if there is or is not a cop in this game. This is a fantastic claim for scum to make because guess what scum knows; everyone's alignment!
Wait, was that in the setup? I don't remember seeing it.
Hell if I know or if I'm even gonna look. I recall there being no real info at all about roles in the setup.
So how would you know that scums knows everyone alignment?...
I think you have a point but are going to try to make this a scumslip and it's not that all. I was speaking very much in generality.
Guys, any thoughts on this?
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Funny, I just got that "message body was empty" error
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It is not a scumslip, not at all.
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It is not a scumslip, not at all.
Very much this.
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Not a scumslip
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Can't seem to post responses with quotes so this is RE: McGangnam getting wet over a possible scumslip:
I mean that unless there is a third faction scum knows who is and isn't scum thus claiming cop is relatively safe since any alignment claims they make should be accurate and provable. The setup info I saw leans strongly towards a typical setup (2 factions) and was largely ambiguous if a cop may or may not exist in the game. Equally ambiguous would be any doctoring roles so a cop staying alive and bussing one partner for infinite cred is an actual possibility.
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Then what exactly is it? I'm not disagreeing, I just think its a bit strange.
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Can't seem to post responses with quotes so this is RE: McGangnam getting wet over a possible scumslip:
I mean that unless there is a third faction scum knows who is and isn't scum thus claiming cop is relatively safe since any alignment claims they make should be accurate and provable. The setup info I saw leans strongly towards a typical setup (2 factions) and was largely ambiguous if a cop may or may not exist in the game. Equally ambiguous would be any doctoring roles so a cop staying alive and bussing one partner for infinite cred is an actual possibility.
Oh, ok. Never mind :-[. You were being so cryptic earlier, I didn't know what to think ;).
Since we didn't lynch Jake (probably not a good idea at this point) you still owe me a hammer ;).
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you can hammer LL or EFHW
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you can hammer LL or EFHW
Uh, wrong game?
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What the hell my phone keeps posting stuff in the wrong games gtg gotta go fix this crap
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Then what exactly is it? I'm not disagreeing, I just think its a bit strange.
Why should it even be a scumslip?
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you can hammer LL or EFHW
Actually, good idea. Lets lynch the mod.
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you can hammer LL or EFHW
Actually, good idea. Lets lynch the mod.
vote: LaLight
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you can hammer LL or EFHW
Actually, good idea. Lets lynch the mod.
vote: LaLight
I would jump on that wagon, but I would rather not get modkilled :P so vote: EFHW
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But really, I'm going to vote: Calamitas. Mainly for the combination of previously lurking some and demanding Jake reveal flavor name.
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But really, I'm going to vote: Calamitas. Mainly for the combination of previously lurking some and demanding Jake reveal flavor name.
The demand does seem strange. I could see it being pro-town, but I'm inclined to see it as scum or third faction.
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Vote Count 1.5
JakeTheBaseballGod22 (3): Robz888, Eevee, pingpongsam
McGarnacle (5): SpaceAnemone, Lekkit, Calamitas, JakeTheBaseballGod22, GKrieg13
Calamitas (2): IDontPlayThisGame, Dylan32
Not Voting (2): McGarnacle, Roadrunner7671
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday Nov 20 at 1 pm
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Looks like all the scum are voting McGlasnost and the town vets are voting Jake.
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Do you consider that as even slightly helpful?
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Looks like all the scum are voting McGlasnost and the town vets are voting Jake.
So you're deliberately voting Jake, even though he claims cop and nobody counterclaims? Not just voting because you hadn't gotten around to moving your vote?
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Looks like all the scum are voting McGlasnost and the town vets are voting Jake.
So you're deliberately voting Jake, even though he claims cop and nobody counterclaims? Not just voting because you hadn't gotten around to moving your vote?
I'm voting Jake because I thought he was scum when I opened my vote on him and then when he claimed I felt it confirmed my suspicion on him. A counterclaim would serve to sway me, the lack thereof only cements my suspicion.
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Looks like all the scum are voting McGlasnost and the town vets are voting Jake.
So you're deliberately voting Jake, even though he claims cop and nobody counterclaims? Not just voting because you hadn't gotten around to moving your vote?
To be more clear; yes, I still think he is the best D1 lynch. I thought that was patently clear because of the arguments I made immediately post-claim. I outright said his claim was the perfect scum play in his situation.
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Do you consider that as even slightly helpful?
Yes, it directly implies who I read as town and who I read as scum. I think the McGlasgow wagon is a scum driven redirection off of partner Jake who got into hot water.
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Do you consider that as even slightly helpful?
Yes, it directly implies who I read as town and who I read as scum. I think the McGlasgow wagon is a scum driven redirection off of partner Jake who got into hot water.
I've already said that before, too. Typical scum play is to try to get town to reiterate when their positions might have changed somewhat so you can highlight incongruity.
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PPS you seriously don't believe that i'm cop despite asking for my flavor name? People PPS is really looking like scum to me trying too lynch a cop so they don't have to try to night kill me. We can lynch McG later let's lynch this scum. Vote: PPS
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PPS you seriously don't believe that i'm cop despite asking for my flavor name? People PPS is really looking like scum to me trying too lynch a cop so they don't have to try to night kill me. We can lynch McG later let's lynch this scum. Vote: PPS
Calamitas asked for your flavor name I think.
And although this is scummy, he has no motive to behave like this as scum. It just gives him attention he wouldn't want as scum.
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I'm voting Jake because I thought he was scum when I opened my vote on him and then when he claimed I felt it confirmed my suspicion on him. A counterclaim would serve to sway me, the lack thereof only cements my suspicion.
Shouldn't it be the other way around? I guess we might just have different opinions on this.
To be more clear; yes, I still think he is the best D1 lynch. I thought that was patently clear because of the arguments I made immediately post-claim. I outright said his claim was the perfect scum play in his situation.
It's also the correct town play if it's true.
Yes, it directly implies who I read as town and who I read as scum. I think the McGlasgow wagon is a scum driven redirection off of partner Jake who got into hot water.
So, I guess possibly SA, me, maybe Calamitas, obviously Jake and perhaps GKrieg as well? Seriously, though. Saying almost half of the players are your scum reads is pretty vague.
I've already said that before, too. Typical scum play is to try to get town to reiterate when their positions might have changed somewhat so you can highlight incongruity.
And typical town play is to change your mind.
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And although this is scummy, he has no motive to behave like this as scum. It just gives him attention he wouldn't want as scum.
Also, not NK you will set you up as an easy lynch tomorrow. Much easier than trying to lynch you despite your claim. I actually think it makes no sense for him to vote for you if he's scum and you're a cop.
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Jake probably is the cop, I just really want everyone to be as devious and crazy as myself. Keeps me paranoid. I'm still voting him.
And what swayed your mind PPS also the people voting me have been INACTIVE recently so they haven't had the chance to change there vote.
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Ok i'll be fine with a PPS or McG lynch today
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I'm voting Jake because I thought he was scum when I opened my vote on him and then when he claimed I felt it confirmed my suspicion on him. A counterclaim would serve to sway me, the lack thereof only cements my suspicion.
Shouldn't it be the other way around? I guess we might just have different opinions on this.
To be more clear; yes, I still think he is the best D1 lynch. I thought that was patently clear because of the arguments I made immediately post-claim. I outright said his claim was the perfect scum play in his situation.
It's also the correct town play if it's true.
I don't disagree at all. Which do you think more likely, though; we inadvertently ran up the first D1 L-1 wagon on the town cop or we did it to scum and he used the best possible fake claim to avoid it? Simple math says the latter is more probable. My gut feeling says it is very likely the latter.
Yes, it directly implies who I read as town and who I read as scum. I think the McGlasgow wagon is a scum driven redirection off of partner Jake who got into hot water.
So, I guess possibly SA, me, maybe Calamitas, obviously Jake and perhaps GKrieg as well? Seriously, though. Saying almost half of the players are your scum reads is pretty vague.
I am reading SA, Jake, and Lekkit as scum. I think Calamitas' request for flavor name is a tell that he is opposing alignment to Jake. If Jake were to flip town then I would immediately be suspicious of Calamitas. I am willing to consider that Calamitas could be scum outright for the fishing expedition but I don't think scum plays that stupidly obvious just as I am clearly not scum playing so stupidly obvious as to try to mislynch a claimed town cop.
I've already said that before, too. Typical scum play is to try to get town to reiterate when their positions might have changed somewhat so you can highlight incongruity.
And typical town play is to change your mind.
Thank you for proving my point. My mind has not changed and thus there is no incongruity to leverage.
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Jake probably is the cop, I just really want everyone to be as devious and crazy as myself. Keeps me paranoid. I'm still voting him.
And what swayed your mind PPS also the people voting me have been INACTIVE recently so they haven't had the chance to change there vote.
Why do you continue to insist I somehow changed my mind when I clearly have not? I misspoke by using the word "probably" because probability suggests you are not the cop but rather scum. My statement was more a pessimistic outlook on the position I was taking. I'm running with the gut read I have and I am fine with that. It doesn't make me scum, in fact, any sane person would see it as a clear town tell that I'm sticking to my read despite the obvious status quo against it. That you insist on doing this only strengthens my read, though.
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Man PPS you really want to lynch me I think that you are scum but you may be town just floating your meta of being suspicious of everything no matter what so i'm gonna give you a chance Vote: McGarnacle Ok so if we can't lynch PPS then i guess i'm brought back to lynching McG
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Man PPS you really want to lynch me I think that you are scum but you may be town just floating your meta of being suspicious of everything no matter what so i'm gonna give you a chance Vote: McGarnacle Ok so if we can't lynch PPS then i guess i'm brought back to lynching McG
It's not so much I want to see you lynched as I feel strongly you are scum. I know the two ideas are generally one and the same. The difference here is I don't expect you to actually get lynched because of your claim. I expect to continue to point out a clear scum narrative for you so that you inevitably get lynched. I'll add that if I get nixed tonight it should be a strong indication I am right about you.
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PPS you're only going down if there are no vet scum.
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PPS you're only going down if there are no vet scum.
Yeah, and there's another thing about this that is way less obvious but is a huge town tell on me if you think about it. I mean, really, what I am doing here is pure genius. If you see it please do not point it out, ffs.
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PPS you're only going down if there are no vet scum.
Yeah, and there's another thing about this that is way less obvious but is a huge town tell on me if you think about it. I mean, really, what I am doing here is pure genius. If you see it please do not point it out, ffs.
What a ego
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PPS you're only going down if there are no vet scum.
Yeah, and there's another thing about this that is way less obvious but is a huge town tell on me if you think about it. I mean, really, what I am doing here is pure genius. If you see it please do not point it out, ffs.
I'm liking what you're doing
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But seriously whats your case that my claim is false because your just repeating how good you are and no case on me which you keep repeating over and over without proof
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But seriously whats your case that my claim is false because your just repeating how good you are and no case on me which you keep repeating over and over without proof
Sometimes I feel like we're not reading the same thread.
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He keeps saying his gut feeling is that i'm scum but he has no proof but he continulally try's to prove he's town. Here's some examples
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PPS you're only going down if there are no vet scum.
Yeah, and there's another thing about this that is way less obvious but is a huge town tell on me if you think about it. I mean, really, what I am doing here is pure genius. If you see it please do not point it out, ffs.
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I'm voting Jake because I thought he was scum when I opened my vote on him and then when he claimed I felt it confirmed my suspicion on him. A counterclaim would serve to sway me, the lack thereof only cements my suspicion.
Shouldn't it be the other way around? I guess we might just have different opinions on this.
To be more clear; yes, I still think he is the best D1 lynch. I thought that was patently clear because of the arguments I made immediately post-claim. I outright said his claim was the perfect scum play in his situation.
It's also the correct town play if it's true.
I don't disagree at all. Which do you think more likely, though; we inadvertently ran up the first D1 L-1 wagon on the town cop or we did it to scum and he used the best possible fake claim to avoid it? Simple math says the latter is more probable. My gut feeling says it is very likely the latter.
Yes, it directly implies who I read as town and who I read as scum. I think the McGlasgow wagon is a scum driven redirection off of partner Jake who got into hot water.
So, I guess possibly SA, me, maybe Calamitas, obviously Jake and perhaps GKrieg as well? Seriously, though. Saying almost half of the players are your scum reads is pretty vague.
I am reading SA, Jake, and Lekkit as scum. I think Calamitas' request for flavor name is a tell that he is opposing alignment to Jake. If Jake were to flip town then I would immediately be suspicious of Calamitas. I am willing to consider that Calamitas could be scum outright for the fishing expedition but I don't think scum plays that stupidly obvious just as I am clearly not scum playing so stupidly obvious as to try to mislynch a claimed town cop.
I've already said that before, too. Typical scum play is to try to get town to reiterate when their positions might have changed somewhat so you can highlight incongruity.
And typical town play is to change your mind.
Thank you for proving my point. My mind has not changed and thus there is no incongruity to leverage.
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I'm voting Jake because I thought he was scum when I opened my vote on him and then when he claimed I felt it confirmed my suspicion on him. A counterclaim would serve to sway me, the lack thereof only cements my suspicion.
Shouldn't it be the other way around? I guess we might just have different opinions on this.
To be more clear; yes, I still think he is the best D1 lynch. I thought that was patently clear because of the arguments I made immediately post-claim. I outright said his claim was the perfect scum play in his situation.
It's also the correct town play if it's true.
I don't disagree at all. Which do you think more likely, though; we inadvertently ran up the first D1 L-1 wagon on the town cop or we did it to scum and he used the best possible fake claim to avoid it? Simple math says the latter is more probable. My gut feeling says it is very likely the latter.
Yes, it directly implies who I read as town and who I read as scum. I think the McGlasgow wagon is a scum driven redirection off of partner Jake who got into hot water.
So, I guess possibly SA, me, maybe Calamitas, obviously Jake and perhaps GKrieg as well? Seriously, though. Saying almost half of the players are your scum reads is pretty vague.
I am reading SA, Jake, and Lekkit as scum. I think Calamitas' request for flavor name is a tell that he is opposing alignment to Jake. If Jake were to flip town then I would immediately be suspicious of Calamitas. I am willing to consider that Calamitas could be scum outright for the fishing expedition but I don't think scum plays that stupidly obvious just as I am clearly not scum playing so stupidly obvious as to try to mislynch a claimed town cop.
I've already said that before, too. Typical scum play is to try to get town to reiterate when their positions might have changed somewhat so you can highlight incongruity.
And typical town play is to change your mind.
Thank you for proving my point. My mind has not changed and thus there is no incongruity to leverage.
The bolded part doesn't make sense at all.
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But seriously whats your case that my claim is false because your just repeating how good you are and no case on me which you keep repeating over and over without proof
The case is thusly:
-You acted scummy; the same scummy you flipped scum for in Portal Mafia.
-When that scummy behavior escalated to a near lynch (with intent to hammer, no less) you produced the one sure fire claim that would keep you alive and that you could "verify" as needed and put you in a position of trust with town. Not only that, since we know none of the roles, we can assume your continued existence in the game is the result of a doctor and not because your are scum. So, kudos to you, genius play if you are indeed scum. See, I can share the egotism.
-The immediate re-positioning onto McGillicuddy signaled, to me, scum redirecting now that you escaped the noose. Now, the rest of the case you've posted the obvious counters to with zero creativity (rescinding the ego massage for a moment to offer you a chance to earn it back) so give me a good counter to how this McGonads wagon is clearly town driven with scum avoiding it because he's necessarily their partner and right now is a terrible time to bus him.
The part that makes me a badass has little to do with the case I'm making on you. I was just born that way so I can't apologize for it.
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The bolded part doesn't make sense at all.
That you need me to explain this is fishy as hell.
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I'm just gonna ignore PPS because he's making no sense to me so does anyone else wanna comment on a possible McG lynch
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I'm just gonna ignore PPS because he's making no sense to me so does anyone else wanna comment on a possible McG lynch
I actually keep misreading you as PPS, because you both have avatars that are red curves on a pale background. It's confusing!
Rather than quoting a whole bunch of PPs's posts back into the thread with no added context in each post, could you have condensed the relevant parts into one case and post that with your own observations around it?
Also, I think the main reason I perceive you as "noisy" is that you post a lot of short things with little to no punctuation and no quoting, meaning more effort to work out what you're actually saying overall, or what you're referring to. In contrast, most other players take time to form complete sentences and quote the things they're responding to, and the benefit of doing so is that that takes less of everyone else's time to parse and understand afterwards. Is that something you'd be willing to try?
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Yeah I was trying to figure out how to put multiple quotes in one post but couldn't do I just put them separately
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I'm just gonna ignore PPS because he's making no sense to me so does anyone else wanna comment on a possible McG lynch
I'd like to document the fact that Jake is explicitly ignoring my request to demonstrate how McGladiator's wagon is clearly town driven. I've given a clear narrative for why and how it is scum driven. I can't help but interpret his refusal as inability.
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PPs is town. I agree with him re. Calamitas. Calamitas seems very much like he is fishing, but I actually think it may be for reasons other than being scum..
Also another note on Jake, if I were LaLight and designing my first game, I would definitely put a cop in. I think newer players think they are cooler than they really are, and blah blah blah, something about this game.
So PPS is town, Jake is town, and Calamitas is townie to me.
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So it is pretty close to 2 whole days since the last time Robz has posted, and it has been almost exactly 1 day since eevee has posted. I haven't looked at the VLA thread to see if Robz said anything there, but 2 days is a bit much if that's just lurking.
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Robz is VLA till this evening.
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Vote: SA
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Just so PPS knows someone has noticed, I really appreciate your 'interactions' with McGarnacle
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I'm just gonna ignore PPS because he's making no sense to me so does anyone else wanna comment on a possible McG lynch
I'd like to document the fact that Jake is explicitly ignoring my request to demonstrate how McGladiator's wagon is clearly town driven. I've given a clear narrative for why and how it is scum driven. I can't help but interpret his refusal as inability.
On that note I'd like to point out that you completely ignored my remark abou the Calamitas wagon.
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I'm just gonna ignore PPS because he's making no sense to me so does anyone else wanna comment on a possible McG lynch
I'd like to document the fact that Jake is explicitly ignoring my request to demonstrate how McGladiator's wagon is clearly town driven. I've given a clear narrative for why and how it is scum driven. I can't help but interpret his refusal as inability.
On that note I'd like to point out that you completely ignored my remark abou the Calamitas wagon.
I missed it. I just went back and looked for it and still missed it. Care to quote/link it? I'm certainly not ignoring you.
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You said this.
I'm actually feeling good about the Jake wagon because I think scum would have already run it through if he were town. I'm suspicious of SA and Lekkit for trying to divert to McGroceries as I don't see the case there at all.
I responded with this.
pingpongsam, I assume you have no objections to the Calamitas case, then?
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I'm just gonna ignore PPS because he's making no sense to me so does anyone else wanna comment on a possible McG lynch
I'd like to document the fact that Jake is explicitly ignoring my request to demonstrate how McGladiator's wagon is clearly town driven. I've given a clear narrative for why and how it is scum driven. I can't help but interpret his refusal as inability.
I never saw your requests and I have no objection. Also where is McG he has been lurking for a day and I've seen him post on other threads today
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You said this.
I'm actually feeling good about the Jake wagon because I think scum would have already run it through if he were town. I'm suspicious of SA and Lekkit for trying to divert to McGroceries as I don't see the case there at all.
I responded with this.
pingpongsam, I assume you have no objections to the Calamitas case, then?
Well, it's no so much objection as analysis. I think based on the interaction Calamitas is opposite alignment of Jake. I realize that's not airtight or anything but it's my operating assumption right now. I feel Calamitas has done things that are definitely scummy looking but I don't think he does those things as scum, not that brazenly or maybe clumsily. In fact, I can find town narrative for his behavior. I do not see town narrative for Jake's behavior so if I presume Jake scum then I presume Calamitas town. If we flip calmitas town does anyone else then presume Jake scum? If not, then I have no real interest in Calamitas today as i would be alone in my understanding of his flip.
I'm open to the idea they are both town but completely closed to the idea they are both scum.
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I'm just gonna ignore PPS because he's making no sense to me so does anyone else wanna comment on a possible McG lynch
I'd like to document the fact that Jake is explicitly ignoring my request to demonstrate how McGladiator's wagon is clearly town driven. I've given a clear narrative for why and how it is scum driven. I can't help but interpret his refusal as inability.
I never saw your requests and I have no objection. Also where is McG he has been lurking for a day and I've seen him post on other threads today
Objection to what? I object to his lynch, if that is what you are referring to him you are clearly not objecting to it by voting him. What I'm asking from you is to give a town representation of how the wagon has formed on him much like I colored it a scum wagon.
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I'm just gonna ignore PPS because he's making no sense to me so does anyone else wanna comment on a possible McG lynch
I'd like to document the fact that Jake is explicitly ignoring my request to demonstrate how McGladiator's wagon is clearly town driven. I've given a clear narrative for why and how it is scum driven. I can't help but interpret his refusal as inability.
I never saw your requests and I have no objection. Also where is McG he has been lurking for a day and I've seen him post on other threads today
Objection to what? I object to his lynch, if that is what you are referring to him you are clearly not objecting to it by voting him. What I'm asking from you is to give a town representation of how the wagon has formed on him much like I colored it a scum wagon.
Ok McG has said some scummy things one but two and what really made me vote for McG was McG's awful defense against those accusations. McG's defense was that because he was town in the other two games and played like this he must be town. That is why I'm voting for McG PPS
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You said this.
I'm actually feeling good about the Jake wagon because I think scum would have already run it through if he were town. I'm suspicious of SA and Lekkit for trying to divert to McGroceries as I don't see the case there at all.
I responded with this.
pingpongsam, I assume you have no objections to the Calamitas case, then?
Well, it's no so much objection as analysis. I think based on the interaction Calamitas is opposite alignment of Jake. I realize that's not airtight or anything but it's my operating assumption right now. I feel Calamitas has done things that are definitely scummy looking but I don't think he does those things as scum, not that brazenly or maybe clumsily. In fact, I can find town narrative for his behavior. I do not see town narrative for Jake's behavior so if I presume Jake scum then I presume Calamitas town. If we flip calmitas town does anyone else then presume Jake scum? If not, then I have no real interest in Calamitas today as i would be alone in my understanding of his flip.
I'm open to the idea they are both town but completely closed to the idea they are both scum.
The thing is that you shouldn't give me a town/scumread because of Jake flipping as either. As town I don't know Jakes alignment so it doesn't change my behaviour in that regard. It is for town!Calamitas' behaviour irrelevant whether Jake's alignment is actually town or actually scum.
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You said this.
I'm actually feeling good about the Jake wagon because I think scum would have already run it through if he were town. I'm suspicious of SA and Lekkit for trying to divert to McGroceries as I don't see the case there at all.
I responded with this.
pingpongsam, I assume you have no objections to the Calamitas case, then?
Well, it's no so much objection as analysis. I think based on the interaction Calamitas is opposite alignment of Jake. I realize that's not airtight or anything but it's my operating assumption right now. I feel Calamitas has done things that are definitely scummy looking but I don't think he does those things as scum, not that brazenly or maybe clumsily. In fact, I can find town narrative for his behavior. I do not see town narrative for Jake's behavior so if I presume Jake scum then I presume Calamitas town. If we flip calmitas town does anyone else then presume Jake scum? If not, then I have no real interest in Calamitas today as i would be alone in my understanding of his flip.
I'm open to the idea they are both town but completely closed to the idea they are both scum.
Allright. So here's the thing. SA were voting McG. People were voting Jake. All of a sudden, IDPTG and GKrieg started going for Calamitas. At pretty much the same time I posted my thoughts on McG. Then there were some hammer intent and stuff, and then the claim followed by Calamitas request. At the time, there was no way you would know that's how Calamitas would react and frankly, I don't see how turning to McG was much scummier than Calamitas. But yet you didn't even mention it. My point is. Two similar wagons. You decided one was scummy and the other one wasn't.
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Wow, whole lot went down during my VLA. I just read thru it as quickly as possible, probably missing things, that's going to hurt, oh well. Maybe can re-read more carefully this weekend, because I felt like there were some key interactions there.
But the big thing is, I don't believe Jake at all. So everything else is really beside the point. I absolutely still advocate his lynch. This is the claim scum makes--in fact, if I were Jake's partner, I would have told him to claim cop if he was in danger of being lynched, hoping to out a cop. I'm confident other vets very well may have done the same (in fact, maybe they did!). Lack of counterclaim means little in this setup.
So I'm still mega in favor of lynching Jake. More in favor of it, if anything.
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I don't find Calamitas scummy at all for pressing for details, even if that wasn't a good idea, but I'm not convinced it was a bad idea, and I probably would have done the same. Actually, Calamitas's reaction seemed very townie to me.
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Also the PPS thing is very clearly not a scumslip. He said scum know everyone's alignment. That's true... scum do know that!
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Well sience you people are just going to follow the vets and lynch me I'm going too say that my scum reads are robz as scum leader ( Not a role but vet leads scum in actions) McG looked like scum early but has silenced sience he was accused and also because robz probably told him too and for my third scum read I'm trying to decide between RR, Lek and calm. May have more too go on but over half the players in this game are lurking which makes it hard too read so none of the three choices may be scum but out of who's talking that's who I think is scum
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I'm leaning scum on Robz. Why don't you want to give Jake a night to do something?
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Does anyone object to me proding Dylan, McG, Ee and IDPTG?
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I would like to hear what they have to say and they are being inactive
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I'm leaning scum on Robz. Why don't you want to give Jake a night to do something?
Because he's lying.
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I'm leaning scum on Robz. Why don't you want to give Jake a night to do something?
Because he's lying.
But the downside of letting him live throughout the night is pretty much null if we lynch surviving!Jake (not sure whether we should do that, but it is strictly better than lynching Jake outright)
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Let me put it this way: being suckered by PR claims is one of the biggest mistakes you can make. It's been a major flaw of my town game in the past. This is either an extraordinary coincidence or the exact thing a scum would do, or be coached to do.
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I'm leaning scum on Robz. Why don't you want to give Jake a night to do something?
Because he's lying.
But letting him live one night is worth it
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Is there anyway to confirm a claim. If so can someone tell me so I can confirm mine and we can move on to lynching some scum
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Is there anyway to confirm a claim. If so can someone tell me so I can confirm mine and we can move on to lynching some scum
Nope. Unless you get a guilty result and get a scum lynched.
Also, your reads are complete OMGUS. Pretty much anyone who reads you as scum, you read as scum (except for PPS).
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So now two of the vets are sticking by their guns and voting Jake? I dislike the level of conviction there, given that Jake's meta is to play annoyingly (lots of careless low-content posts, very little punctuation, lots of attention-grabbing behaviour). I'm reasonably happy to vote him in general, but I wanted to do better than that if evidence presented itself.
I still think McGarnacle's behaviour is entirely apt for newbie scum. The additional observation I promised at the time I made my initial points was that up till then, PPS had not started his name-calling of McGarnacle at all, with reasonably many posts under his belt. Given how much he'd loved doing it at every other opportunity in the past, I found that weird, and wondered whether it could be a partner tell. Now we're further in, he's out-doing himself on new nicknames for McGarnacle, so that's less interesting.
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The misspelling of McGarnacle was a joke a bit ago and now PPS is bringing it back, and I think that's awesome.
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Sorry I've been gone all day. Really busy. vote: Jake the way he keeps switching his votes when people accuse him just compounds the way he already looks like scum.
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The misspelling of McGarnacle was a joke a bit ago and now PPS is bringing it back, and I think that's awesome.
Yeah, I know.. it started in NM8, where McGarnacle explicitly said he's okay with it, otherwise it would be significantly less awesome.
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The misspelling of McGarnacle was a joke a bit ago and now PPS is bringing it back, and I think that's awesome.
Yeah, I know.. it started in NM8, where McGarnacle explicitly said he's okay with it, otherwise it would be significantly less awesome.
I'm happy to contribute to forum mafia inside jokes.
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The misspelling of McGarnacle was a joke a bit ago and now PPS is bringing it back, and I think that's awesome.
Yeah, I know.. it started in NM8, where McGarnacle explicitly said he's okay with it, otherwise it would be significantly less awesome.
I'm happy to contribute to forum mafia inside jokes.
I'm a joke on the forum
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So now two of the vets are sticking by their guns and voting Jake? I dislike the level of conviction there, given that Jake's meta is to play annoyingly (lots of careless low-content posts, very little punctuation, lots of attention-grabbing behaviour). I'm reasonably happy to vote him in general, but I wanted to do better than that if evidence presented itself.
I still think McGarnacle's behaviour is entirely apt for newbie scum. The additional observation I promised at the time I made my initial points was that up till then, PPS had not started his name-calling of McGarnacle at all, with reasonably many posts under his belt. Given how much he'd loved doing it at every other opportunity in the past, I found that weird, and wondered whether it could be a partner tell. Now we're further in, he's out-doing himself on new nicknames for McGarnacle, so that's less interesting.
Actually, I'm voting for you, in case you weren't keeping up.
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I'm leaning scum on Robz. Why don't you want to give Jake a night to do something?
Because he's lying.
But letting him live one night is worth it
Why, so we can mislynch a townie today instead?
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Is there anyway to confirm a claim. If so can someone tell me so I can confirm mine and we can move on to lynching some scum
Nope. Unless you get a guilty result and get a scum lynched.
WIFOM. First step IC a partner. Second step bus a partner with a cop claim. NK any future town ICs. A scum flip from his cop claim proves nothing about his alignment.
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If we flip Jake and he is scum me and Robz do earn quasi IC status imho.
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If we flip Jake and he is scum me and Robz do earn quasi IC status imho.
Robz and I
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Maybe not, I suppose him and I are capable of that degree of epic bus.
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So now two of the vets are sticking by their guns and voting Jake? I dislike the level of conviction there, given that Jake's meta is to play annoyingly (lots of careless low-content posts, very little punctuation, lots of attention-grabbing behaviour). I'm reasonably happy to vote him in general, but I wanted to do better than that if evidence presented itself.
I still think McGarnacle's behaviour is entirely apt for newbie scum. The additional observation I promised at the time I made my initial points was that up till then, PPS had not started his name-calling of McGarnacle at all, with reasonably many posts under his belt. Given how much he'd loved doing it at every other opportunity in the past, I found that weird, and wondered whether it could be a partner tell. Now we're further in, he's out-doing himself on new nicknames for McGarnacle, so that's less interesting.
Actually, I'm voting for you, in case you weren't keeping up.
Darn it.. I thought I was managing to keep up, but you speak the truth. I don't feel scummy enough on Jake to vote him in preference to scum-hunting, but it's not like I won't do it. Your resistance to even letting him live for one day just in case he's town worries me a bit.
If we can make estimates for the likelihood of scum!Jake claiming cop instead of another role (middling or high?), the likelihood of LL having included cop(s) in the game (pretty darn high?), we can come up with an estimate of the posterior probability of a cop-claiming Jake being a scum. The fact it's a closed invented set-up makes that hard because we're taking stabs in the dark, but I feel like it's maybe 40-50% overall, which isn't much worse than the 27% chance each of you has of being scums anyway.
I need to re-think this tomorrow with actual numbers... it's really late here now!
Also, prior warning with some time to spare: I'm unlikely to be online very much at the deadline because I'm hosting a guest from after work tomorrow through till Monday, so I have to go out and do IRL activities and genuine human interactions and stuff.
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I feel like this "we assume there is a cop, therefore Jake must be telling the truth" line of arguing is so, so, so, so, so wrong. We have no idea whether there is a cop. There could be any number of normal roles instead.
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I feel like this "we assume there is a cop, therefore Jake must be telling the truth" line of arguing is so, so, so, so, so wrong. We have no idea whether there is a cop. There could be any number of normal roles instead.
I don't know if anyone really is thinking or arguing that. I know the closest I might have come to giving that impression was unvoting to prevent a hammer before someone else had a chance to counter claim or something. While I do think it is fairly likely that there is in fact a cop in this game, that belief in no way forces me to assume Jake is telling the truth. If you saw something specific that gave you that impression, could you point it out?
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So as of right now. I sort of like what pps has been doing. I'm curious as to why you decided to vote SA specifically when you came off of Jake. Although if you are so convinced Jake is scum, I'm not sure why you came off of him at all.
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I probably forgot something, but while I could understand Jake flipping scum giving you, pps, a quasi-IC status, why would it also apply to Robz? And wouldn't McG get a similar status for a different reason, since Jake is fighting so hard to get people to bus him? I know a very experienced scum might try to pull that, but the simple fact is Jake hasn't played that much yet, so it's unlikely.
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I probably forgot something, but while I could understand Jake flipping scum giving you, pps, a quasi-IC status, why would it also apply to Robz? And wouldn't McG get a similar status for a different reason, since Jake is fighting so hard to get people to bus him? I know a very experienced scum might try to pull that, but the simple fact is Jake hasn't played that much yet, so it's unlikely.
by "pull that" I meant scum deflecting a bus onto a scum partner to try to IC at least 1 scum if possible, just in case that wasn't clear
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Just a heads up. We have some serious staffing issues at work. And while I'm able to read here when I'm at work, I feel like I'm bound to miss stuff. And also possibly be in quite a bad mood. Will reread what's been said since my last post later today.
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So as of right now. I sort of like what pps has been doing. I'm curious as to why you decided to vote SA specifically when you came off of Jake. Although if you are so convinced Jake is scum, I'm not sure why you came off of him at all.
Glad you asked. Supposedly I was of high suspicion for driving a kamikaze mission towards our precious cop. I realized the Jake thing wouldn't happen so I just switched my vote almost arbitrarily and abruptly to see who remained congruent in their assertion I must be scum and that I was acting scummy still. It went almost completely unnoticed to the point SA themselves didn't even see it.
I'm not convinced Jake is scum, btw, just that I think it is more probable than him being town (which it is due to the claim) and that leaving that claim alive is more dangerous than killing it ( as I have demonstrated). I'm not one to assert certainties, especially D1.
As for SA, I needed to abruptly switch my vote for reaction tells and SA was in my relatively small pool of scum reads. Also they were the most likely to give me a level headed, rational reaction unlike the then current Jake fiasco.
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I probably forgot something, but while I could understand Jake flipping scum giving you, pps, a quasi-IC status, why would it also apply to Robz? And wouldn't McG get a similar status for a different reason, since Jake is fighting so hard to get people to bus him? I know a very experienced scum might try to pull that, but the simple fact is Jake hasn't played that much yet, so it's unlikely.
Good point on McGrainger. As for Robz, well, he is picking up the torch i lit with equal passion for the specific details i am highlighting. I think the notion of IC status is overblown and also that sometimes I tend to speak my internal dialog just to get it out and test the soundness of it. In retrospect I think it just gives town leaning and not anything near IC status.
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I think all this conversation is very productive and also pretty funny, so I encourage it. I'd prefer to not lynch Jake today and see what happens later down the road, but we'll see how close we get to the deadline.
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I still think we should lynch Jake. I know someone mentioned it, but what are the arguments against doing so? He IS my top scum read, but we do need to lynch someone.
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I still think we should lynch Jake. I know someone mentioned it, but what are the arguments against doing so? He IS my top scum read, but we do need to lynch someone.
I'm pretty sure the only argument is the cop claim.
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Vote Count 1.6
JakeTheBaseballGod22 (3): Robz888, Eevee, McGarnacle
McGarnacle (5): SpaceAnemone, Lekkit, Calamitas, GKrieg13, JakeTheBaseballGod22
Calamitas (2): IDontPlayThisGame, Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (1): pingpongsam
Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday Nov 20 at 1 pm
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Prod: Eevee
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Lynching jake here is just poor play.
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Lynching jake here is just poor play.
That's a matter of opinion. The fact is if he flips scum it's masterful play.
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Prod: Eevee
Prod sent.
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Lynching jake here is just poor play.
That's a matter of opinion. The fact is if he flips scum it's masterful play.
The flip doesn't change the quality of the decision. The decision to play lotto is bad, winning it doesn't change that.
And i'm not speaking of giving jake a livelong pass. Just the night. The only thing we may lose by that is the possibility that scum-pr!jake gets to use his power once. And the benefits clearly outweigh the drawbacks there.
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I'd be okay with lynching Jake, Calamitas or SA.
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I'd be okay with lynching Jake, Calamitas or SA.
Do you think it is possible Jake and Calamitas could both be scum?
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Lynching jake here is just poor play.
Can you run some numbers the inference thing I mentioned last night? I just have too much work right now, and I'm pretty sure I've seen you preaching Bayesianism somewhere else on f.ds.
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I'l admit that if I'm still alive D-2 i'm dead so why not just lynch me tomorrow if i'm still alive
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I'l admit that if I'm still alive D-2 i'm dead so why not just lynch me tomorrow if i'm still alive
Because then scum won't kill you because they know we'll lynch you.
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I'l admit that if I'm still alive D-2 i'm dead so why not just lynch me tomorrow if i'm still alive
Because then scum won't kill you because they know we'll lynch you.
Well you know there's the option of not lynching me if i'm alive tomorrow but that's extremely unlikely and you can get reads off who's on/pushing my wagon
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Lynching jake here is just poor play.
Can you run some numbers the inference thing I mentioned last night? I just have too much work right now, and I'm pretty sure I've seen you preaching Bayesianism somewhere else on f.ds.
Sure thing.
According to RRs statement about Jake claiming cop and the general easiness of generating good cop results as scum (downside is obviously that you cannot explain to be not killed) I estimate that scum!Jake would claim cop with a probability of 30%. If it would be later in the game I would put it lower but it is quite unlikely that scum has spoken about fake claims on D1.
--> P(cop-claim|scum) = 0.3 (Probability of a cop-claim occurring giving Jake being scum)
Next we have to look into the probability of him claiming cop as town. If we assume there is one cop with a probability of 80% and that cop!Jake would claim cop with certainty, the probability of cop-claim!town is equal to 0.8/12 = 1/15
--> P(cop-claim|town) = 1/15
If we assume those numbers, the cop-claim is evidence in favor of Jake being scum. The likelihood ratio is equal to 4.5:1, combining that with our prior of (3?:9), the posterior probability of Jake being town has risen to 13:9 = 0.59 = 59%
--> P(scum) = 0.59
--> P(town) = P(cop) 0.41
But the probability of him being scum isn't that relevant here. While he should be our top scum read because of his claim, the expected utility of lynching him today is still negative.
As cop he is quite likely to die anyways, as scum he probably won't do that much harm when he lives a bit longer. So, don't lynch Jake today!
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Lynching jake here is just poor play.
Can you run some numbers the inference thing I mentioned last night? I just have too much work right now, and I'm pretty sure I've seen you preaching Bayesianism somewhere else on f.ds.
Sure thing.
According to RRs statement about Jake claiming cop and the general easiness of generating good cop results as scum (downside is obviously that you cannot explain to be not killed) I estimate that scum!Jake would claim cop with a probability of 30%. If it would be later in the game I would put it lower but it is quite unlikely that scum has spoken about fake claims on D1.
--> P(cop-claim|scum) = 0.3 (Probability of a cop-claim occurring giving Jake being scum)
Next we have to look into the probability of him claiming cop as town. If we assume there is one cop with a probability of 80% and that cop!Jake would claim cop with certainty, the probability of cop-claim!town is equal to 0.8/12 = 1/15
--> P(cop-claim|town) = 1/15
If we assume those numbers, the cop-claim is evidence in favor of Jake being scum. The likelihood ratio is equal to 4.5:1, combining that with our prior of (3?:9), the posterior probability of Jake being town has risen to 13:9 = 0.59 = 59%
--> P(scum) = 0.59
--> P(town) = P(cop) 0.41
But the probability of him being scum isn't that relevant here. While he should be our top scum read because of his claim, the expected utility of lynching him today is still negative.
As cop he is quite likely to die anyways, as scum he probably won't do that much harm when he lives a bit longer. So, don't lynch Jake today!
Now I want to vote for Calamitas for terrible, terrible made up numbers. You write: "I estimate that scum!Jake would claim cop with a probability of 30%. If it would be later in the game I would put it lower but it is quite unlikely that scum has spoken about fake claims on D1."
It is NOT unlikely that scum has spoken about fake claims on Day 1, unless the scum team is incompetent. When I'm scum, we always discuss those things Night 0. Your "estimate" here is attempting to assign a number value to a completely random conjecture. You seem to not get that there is NO DOWN SIDE for scum to claim cop when lynch is certain, as it was with Jake. I don't know why you think Jake would do something that there's no reason not to do, only 30% of the time.
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I wouldn't discount the likelihood of scum talking about fake claims D1. Whenever I'm scum, I try to have something nailed down from N0, so that all scum have reasonable fake claims, so they can start playing like a PR or a VT, and it makes it harder for people to be caught in a lie if they have been living the lie longer.
PPE: ya exactly
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Lynching jake here is just poor play.
Can you run some numbers the inference thing I mentioned last night? I just have too much work right now, and I'm pretty sure I've seen you preaching Bayesianism somewhere else on f.ds.
Sure thing.
According to RRs statement about Jake claiming cop and the general easiness of generating good cop results as scum (downside is obviously that you cannot explain to be not killed) I estimate that scum!Jake would claim cop with a probability of 30%. If it would be later in the game I would put it lower but it is quite unlikely that scum has spoken about fake claims on D1.
--> P(cop-claim|scum) = 0.3 (Probability of a cop-claim occurring giving Jake being scum)
Next we have to look into the probability of him claiming cop as town. If we assume there is one cop with a probability of 80% and that cop!Jake would claim cop with certainty, the probability of cop-claim!town is equal to 0.8/12 = 1/15
--> P(cop-claim|town) = 1/15
If we assume those numbers, the cop-claim is evidence in favor of Jake being scum. The likelihood ratio is equal to 4.5:1, combining that with our prior of (3?:9), the posterior probability of Jake being town has risen to 13:9 = 0.59 = 59%
--> P(scum) = 0.59
--> P(town) = P(cop) 0.41
But the probability of him being scum isn't that relevant here. While he should be our top scum read because of his claim, the expected utility of lynching him today is still negative.
As cop he is quite likely to die anyways, as scum he probably won't do that much harm when he lives a bit longer. So, don't lynch Jake today!
Now I want to vote for Calamitas for terrible, terrible made up numbers. You write: "I estimate that scum!Jake would claim cop with a probability of 30%. If it would be later in the game I would put it lower but it is quite unlikely that scum has spoken about fake claims on D1."
It is NOT unlikely that scum has spoken about fake claims on Day 1, unless the scum team is incompetent. When I'm scum, we always discuss those things Night 0. Your "estimate" here is attempting to assign a number value to a completely random conjecture. You seem to not get that there is NO DOWN SIDE for scum to claim cop when lynch is certain, as it was with Jake. I don't know why you think Jake would do something that there's no reason not to do, only 30% of the time.
First, there is a huge amount of potential other fakeclaims. Secondly, you cannot explain survival as claimed cop. But the result is still qualitatively correct which is the only thing that matters here. Using 0.6 as P(cop-claim!scum) changes P(scum) to ~.75. Even in that case, the expected utility of not lynching him is greater than the expected utility of lynching him today.
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Negative utility, schmutility. If Robz thought you're math was some made up mumbo jumbo check this out!
It's risk vs reward. If we bust scum D1 in a fakeclaim that's about the highest possible reward we can ask for in this game so I'll call that a 10.
The risk is we actually mislynch our cop. That's pretty damn bad so I'm going to rate that a 2.
2:10 is almost the worst possible risk vs reward ratio although it appropriate for a 10 level reward.
But, we're not done here, there's more to consider; I think the 8 rating belongs to a situation where the town cop got NK'd or otherwise dead with zero interaction around the fact that he was the cop. But that is not the case here. The flip is highly informative. Informative enough I'm reducing the risk to a 6 so it's more like a 6:10 risk/rewards ratio. I think anytime I'm looking at 7:10 ratio I should take the risk for that reward. I think 6:10 is substantially more risk (by 25% in fact) but the reward is still awesome and the risk is not really that bad in comparison.
But I'm still not done. We still have to look at our options and consider their risk/reward ratio and derive a coefficient by which the individual ratios are moderated. I'm going out on a limb here and saying that we are probably going to mislynch a town today. Let's say it's a VT. well that's a 5:4 in my book. The reward portion goes up the more interaction we have, though. So, if it's McGamesmanship we'll call it a 5:5. However, if it's a town PR we hit (and based on some reads I'm getting off people, there's several running around) well, I'll call that a 6:2.
Now, I'm either not smart enough maybe just not so confident in my made up numbers to bother deriving a coeeficient to assign and arrive at a best choice but I still think lynching Jake is the best call. Otherwise I want a L-1 runup on a VT at which point we have to determine if we want to mislynch likely town just for the informative flip and the hope and dream it was yeta another scum on D1 claiming VT since double PR claims as scum on D1 is way crazy.
Whew...
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Lynching jake here is just poor play.
Can you run some numbers the inference thing I mentioned last night? I just have too much work right now, and I'm pretty sure I've seen you preaching Bayesianism somewhere else on f.ds.
Sure thing.
According to RRs statement about Jake claiming cop and the general easiness of generating good cop results as scum (downside is obviously that you cannot explain to be not killed) I estimate that scum!Jake would claim cop with a probability of 30%. If it would be later in the game I would put it lower but it is quite unlikely that scum has spoken about fake claims on D1.
--> P(cop-claim|scum) = 0.3 (Probability of a cop-claim occurring giving Jake being scum)
Next we have to look into the probability of him claiming cop as town. If we assume there is one cop with a probability of 80% and that cop!Jake would claim cop with certainty, the probability of cop-claim!town is equal to 0.8/12 = 1/15
--> P(cop-claim|town) = 1/15
If we assume those numbers, the cop-claim is evidence in favor of Jake being scum. The likelihood ratio is equal to 4.5:1, combining that with our prior of (3?:9), the posterior probability of Jake being town has risen to 13:9 = 0.59 = 59%
--> P(scum) = 0.59
--> P(town) = P(cop) 0.41
But the probability of him being scum isn't that relevant here. While he should be our top scum read because of his claim, the expected utility of lynching him today is still negative.
As cop he is quite likely to die anyways, as scum he probably won't do that much harm when he lives a bit longer. So, don't lynch Jake today!
Now I want to vote for Calamitas for terrible, terrible made up numbers. You write: "I estimate that scum!Jake would claim cop with a probability of 30%. If it would be later in the game I would put it lower but it is quite unlikely that scum has spoken about fake claims on D1."
It is NOT unlikely that scum has spoken about fake claims on Day 1, unless the scum team is incompetent. When I'm scum, we always discuss those things Night 0. Your "estimate" here is attempting to assign a number value to a completely random conjecture. You seem to not get that there is NO DOWN SIDE for scum to claim cop when lynch is certain, as it was with Jake. I don't know why you think Jake would do something that there's no reason not to do, only 30% of the time.
First, there is a huge amount of potential other fakeclaims. Secondly, you cannot explain survival as claimed cop. But the result is still qualitatively correct which is the only thing that matters here. Using 0.6 as P(cop-claim!scum) changes P(scum) to ~.75. Even in that case, the expected utility of not lynching him is greater than the expected utility of lynching him today.
So basically...the probability says he's scum, but let's not lynch him?
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@PPS: The reward is never a 10. Lynching scum D1 instead of D2 is basically worth nothing. Gaining an additional cop result is worth a lot.
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What about McG he's ethier scum or vt who's playing really badly so the risk is not great in lynching him
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@PPS: The reward is never a 10. Lynching scum D1 instead of D2 is basically worth nothing. Gaining an additional cop result is worth a lot.
A)Lynching scum D1 over D2 is always better. You reduce scum's weight in the vote process, that is they have less ability to steer the D2 lynch. the converse is also tru, so you're flat out wrong in that statement.
B)How valuable is a result if you also IC a scum with it?
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What about McG he's ethier scum or vt who's playing really badly so the risk is not great in lynching him
What is your definition of playing badly?
And what are your reasons for thinking he's scum?
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And what are your reasons for thinking he's scum?
Jake doesn't answer those types of questions...
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And what are your reasons for thinking he's scum?
Jake doesn't answer those types of questions...
Yes I know, but he should. I'm sick of his blindly pushing someone because he has a feeling. It is very anti-town, and gets us more derailed than anything.
I'm trying to make him responsible for his actions and into a better mafia player.
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Well, this is getting very interesting.
Still think we should lynch Jake. Otherwise SA or Calamitas.
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Well, this is getting very interesting.
Still think we should lynch Jake. Otherwise SA or Calamitas.
Why SA?
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Ok well yes I do anwser those questions it's not my fault you don't like my anwsers but I'll put a link to my why we should lynch McG post http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16475.425
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Well, this is getting very interesting.
Still think we should lynch Jake. Otherwise SA or Calamitas.
Why SA?
I'll explain later. I have a plan.
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Interesting. McGladwrap says he is consistent with his meta but you think it is a ruse for no other reason than to be a ruse. I think Jake is scum because it fits his scum meta to behave this way but I guess that's just a ruse too? I might actually buy that because it's exactly how I play.
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Well, this is getting very interesting.
Still think we should lynch Jake. Otherwise SA or Calamitas.
Why SA?
I'll explain later. I have a plan.
I'm already voting to support your plan.
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I think Jake is lying about being the Cop. As PPS said, scum knows the alignments of players so Jake can fake being the Cop by giving accurate reads. He could confirm that a player who looks town is indeed town or bus one of his teammates to gain the trust of the town. Should we lynch someone else and Jake gets night-killed tonight, we get the flip and find out if he really was the Cop. If we lynch someone else and Jake doesn't die tonight, we don't know if that's because he's scum or there's a Doctor that's keeping him alive. I doubt anyone would claim to be the Doctor, so there would be uncertainty about that for a while. Given that we don't yet know if there's a Doctor in the game, if there is a Cop in the game and said Cop were to counterclaim, there's a very good chance that the real Cop dies.
What about McG he's ethier scum or vt who's playing really badly so the risk is not great in lynching him
The crux of this argument is the exact same one that's being used to discuss whether we should lynch Jake. I think Jake is still feeling threatened and this is him grasping at straws in an attempt to stay alive.
Interesting. McGladwrap says he is consistent with his meta but you think it is a ruse for no other reason than to be a ruse. I think Jake is scum because it fits his scum meta to behave this way but I guess that's just a ruse too? I might actually buy that because it's exactly how I play.
I'm not buying that this is a ruse by Jake.
vote: Jake
PPE: 4
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Interesting. McGladwrap says he is consistent with his meta but you think it is a ruse for no other reason than to be a ruse. I think Jake is scum because it fits his scum meta to behave this way but I guess that's just a ruse too? I might actually buy that because it's exactly how I play.
It's funny because one of McG's defenses is that he is town because in his other games he has been town so no one knows how he plays as scum but I have only been scum so no one knows how I play as town. Just think that's hilarious
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Interesting. McGladwrap says he is consistent with his meta but you think it is a ruse for no other reason than to be a ruse. I think Jake is scum because it fits his scum meta to behave this way but I guess that's just a ruse too? I might actually buy that because it's exactly how I play.
It's funny because one of McG's defenses is that he is town because in his other games he has been town so no one knows how he plays as scum but I have only been scum so no one knows how I play as town. Just think that's hilarious
Agreed.
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The really funny part is you still don't know how you play as town.
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I do know how to play as town and would have played better this game but you guys voted me to L-1 and I didn't want you guys to mislynch your cop so I claimed. That is why I claimed not any of your guys reasons
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The really funny part is you still don't know how you play as town.
This is great. +1
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Guys cmon we need to lynch Jake. IDPTG is so right.
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If I get 5 votes on me I'll just vote myself and you people can chose to hammer me or not. My scum reads are McG, Calm, Robz and Lek
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Vote: Jake GO TOWN!!!
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If I get 5 votes on me I'll just vote myself and you people can chose to hammer me or not. My scum reads are McG, Calm, Robz and Lek
Last I heard (I've been doing some reading), self-voting is a bad idea as town and a scum tactic used to deny information. So yeah, still voting Jake.
PPE: 1 (do I have to add this if there was a post in front of mine that didn't affect what I wrote?)
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@PPS: The reward is never a 10. Lynching scum D1 instead of D2 is basically worth nothing. Gaining an additional cop result is worth a lot.
It isn't true that lynching scum D1 instead of D2 is basically worth nothing. I mean, evidence wise, it isn't. I'm pretty confident that if we look back, games where scum was lynched D1 were way more likely to result in a town win than games where scum was lynched on D2 but not Day 1. Maybe it's hard to put in words exactly why that is, I suspect it's because these things tend to snowball. Catching the scum team tends to snowball, and the later that process begins, the worse it is. I'm really against delaying difficult decision until later days, assuming we are going to have better information. Very often, we do not have better information, we just have even harder decisions.
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@PPS, how come you haven't voted for Jake?
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If I get 5 votes on me I'll just vote myself and you people can chose to hammer me or not. My scum reads are McG, Calm, Robz and Lek
Oh and PPS in this order
McG>Robz>Calm>PPS>Lek>Dylan>IDPTG>RR>Big G>SA>Ee
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If I get 5 votes on me I'll just vote myself and you people can chose to hammer me or not. My scum reads are McG, Calm, Robz and Lek
Oh and PPS in this order
McG>Robz>Calm>PPS>Lek>Dylan>IDPTG>RR>Big G>SA>Ee
This just confirms my suspiciouns. Guys, we need to kill Jake.
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@PPS: The reward is never a 10. Lynching scum D1 instead of D2 is basically worth nothing. Gaining an additional cop result is worth a lot.
A)Lynching scum D1 over D2 is always better. You reduce scum's weight in the vote process, that is they have less ability to steer the D2 lynch. the converse is also tru, so you're flat out wrong in that statement.
B)How valuable is a result if you also IC a scum with it?
A and B is just bullshit. The algorithm "not lynch jake, lynch surviving jake" is strictly better than the algorithm "lynch jake right now".
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Maybe it's hard to put in words exactly why that is, I suspect it's because these things tend to snowball.
It's about weight. The less scum around the less they can steer discussion and votes. Same is true for missing town. It's empirical that town win percentage increases with earlier scum discovery.
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@PPS: The reward is never a 10. Lynching scum D1 instead of D2 is basically worth nothing. Gaining an additional cop result is worth a lot.
A)Lynching scum D1 over D2 is always better. You reduce scum's weight in the vote process, that is they have less ability to steer the D2 lynch. the converse is also tru, so you're flat out wrong in that statement.
B)How valuable is a result if you also IC a scum with it?
A and B is just bullshit. The algorithm "not lynch jake, lynch surviving jake" is strictly better than the algorithm "lynch jake right now".
My definition of bullshit is the bullshitter knows it's bullshit. That's why I called you wrong and refute the notion that I am bullshitting you.
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@PPS, how come you haven't voted for Jake?
I thought you had a plan...
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@PPS: The reward is never a 10. Lynching scum D1 instead of D2 is basically worth nothing. Gaining an additional cop result is worth a lot.
It isn't true that lynching scum D1 instead of D2 is basically worth nothing. I mean, evidence wise, it isn't. I'm pretty confident that if we look back, games where scum was lynched D1 were way more likely to result in a town win than games where scum was lynched on D2 but not Day 1. Maybe it's hard to put in words exactly why that is, I suspect it's because these things tend to snowball. Catching the scum team tends to snowball, and the later that process begins, the worse it is. I'm really against delaying difficult decision until later days, assuming we are going to have better information. Very often, we do not have better information, we just have even harder decisions.
But here with do have better information. If Jake survives we have strong evidence for him being scum and just take him out. If he flips town then we have still a misslynch, but we gain a cop result. If he flips scum, we have caught a scum and didn't lose much.
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@PPS: The reward is never a 10. Lynching scum D1 instead of D2 is basically worth nothing. Gaining an additional cop result is worth a lot.
It isn't true that lynching scum D1 instead of D2 is basically worth nothing. I mean, evidence wise, it isn't. I'm pretty confident that if we look back, games where scum was lynched D1 were way more likely to result in a town win than games where scum was lynched on D2 but not Day 1. Maybe it's hard to put in words exactly why that is, I suspect it's because these things tend to snowball. Catching the scum team tends to snowball, and the later that process begins, the worse it is. I'm really against delaying difficult decision until later days, assuming we are going to have better information. Very often, we do not have better information, we just have even harder decisions.
But here with do have better information. If Jake survives we have strong evidence for him being scum and just take him out. If he flips town then we have still a misslynch, but we gain a cop result. If he flips scum, we have caught a scum and didn't lose much.
I agree with Robz, though, that if we don't do it today there is no real promise we will tomorrow.
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@PPS, how come you haven't voted for Jake?
I thought you had a plan...
Okay, I guess we are not on the same page here.
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@PPS: The reward is never a 10. Lynching scum D1 instead of D2 is basically worth nothing. Gaining an additional cop result is worth a lot.
It isn't true that lynching scum D1 instead of D2 is basically worth nothing. I mean, evidence wise, it isn't. I'm pretty confident that if we look back, games where scum was lynched D1 were way more likely to result in a town win than games where scum was lynched on D2 but not Day 1. Maybe it's hard to put in words exactly why that is, I suspect it's because these things tend to snowball. Catching the scum team tends to snowball, and the later that process begins, the worse it is. I'm really against delaying difficult decision until later days, assuming we are going to have better information. Very often, we do not have better information, we just have even harder decisions.
But here with do have better information. If Jake survives we have strong evidence for him being scum and just take him out. If he flips town then we have still a misslynch, but we gain a cop result. If he flips scum, we have caught a scum and didn't lose much.
This is very much WIFOM. Hypothetically, if Jake is town, scum would actually have a strong reason not to lynch him since the prevailing thought this thread has been "if Jake survives we lynch him D2." So the idea that a surviving!Jake is guaranteed to be scum!Jake is completely wrong.
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From Town to Scum in order of scum factor:
PPS - IC
Dylan32 - Town vibes here
RR - no scum vibes, don't trust him either; won't lynch
Gkrieg - Want to trust but don't. He's not being outright scummy and he contributes and moves us forward. Won't lynch today.
The Nullbots:
IDPTG
McGenocide
Robz - getting confirmation bias, don't trust at all, otherwise pretty towny, it's D1 so can safely ignore today
Scum Squad:
Lekkit - don't think we've ever played a game, it may just be this, or his avatar but everything he says is read in a scum voice in my mind
Calamitas - notJake the fisherman
Jake - metatarsals
SA - the best lynch today. just feeling this one. maybe? not really? why not?
Absenteeism:
Eevee - c'mon was really looking forward to a reunion game.
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@PPS: The reward is never a 10. Lynching scum D1 instead of D2 is basically worth nothing. Gaining an additional cop result is worth a lot.
It isn't true that lynching scum D1 instead of D2 is basically worth nothing. I mean, evidence wise, it isn't. I'm pretty confident that if we look back, games where scum was lynched D1 were way more likely to result in a town win than games where scum was lynched on D2 but not Day 1. Maybe it's hard to put in words exactly why that is, I suspect it's because these things tend to snowball. Catching the scum team tends to snowball, and the later that process begins, the worse it is. I'm really against delaying difficult decision until later days, assuming we are going to have better information. Very often, we do not have better information, we just have even harder decisions.
But here with do have better information. If Jake survives we have strong evidence for him being scum and just take him out. If he flips town then we have still a misslynch, but we gain a cop result. If he flips scum, we have caught a scum and didn't lose much.
This is very much WIFOM. Hypothetically, if Jake is town, scum would actually have a strong reason not to lynch him since the prevailing thought this thread has been "if Jake survives we lynch him D2." So the idea that a surviving!Jake is guaranteed to be scum!Jake is completely wrong.
Sure, but it is still strictly better to do it that way since we get a cop result then as bonus.
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@PPS: The reward is never a 10. Lynching scum D1 instead of D2 is basically worth nothing. Gaining an additional cop result is worth a lot.
It isn't true that lynching scum D1 instead of D2 is basically worth nothing. I mean, evidence wise, it isn't. I'm pretty confident that if we look back, games where scum was lynched D1 were way more likely to result in a town win than games where scum was lynched on D2 but not Day 1. Maybe it's hard to put in words exactly why that is, I suspect it's because these things tend to snowball. Catching the scum team tends to snowball, and the later that process begins, the worse it is. I'm really against delaying difficult decision until later days, assuming we are going to have better information. Very often, we do not have better information, we just have even harder decisions.
But here with do have better information. If Jake survives we have strong evidence for him being scum and just take him out. If he flips town then we have still a misslynch, but we gain a cop result. If he flips scum, we have caught a scum and didn't lose much.
This is very much WIFOM. Hypothetically, if Jake is town, scum would actually have a strong reason not to lynch him since the prevailing thought this thread has been "if Jake survives we lynch him D2." So the idea that a surviving!Jake is guaranteed to be scum!Jake is completely wrong.
Sure, but it is still strictly better to do it that way since we get a cop result then as bonus.
It's not strictly better: delaying the lynch a day has its own consequence. Instead of analyzing Jake's flip tomorrow, we end up doing it on Day 3, for one thing.
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Not strictly better, but the drawback is minimal. We may even assume Jake has flipped scum right now and (if we wish to do so) use that info for today's lynch.
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Not strictly better, but the drawback is minimal. We may even assume Jake has flipped scum right now and (if we wish to do so) use that info for today's lynch.
I mean, I guess we just agree. I think you're way understating the drawback and assuming we'll have better info tomorrow, which might not even be the case. And it just never works to pretend someone got lynched.
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Not strictly better, but the drawback is minimal. We may even assume Jake has flipped scum right now and (if we wish to do so) use that info for today's lynch.
I mean, I guess we just agree. I think you're way understating the drawback and assuming we'll have better info tomorrow, which might not even be the case. And it just never works to pretend someone got lynched.
The drawback is minimal. We can still analyze Jakes interaction and base our D1 lynch on that. Tomorrow, we let Jake claim his cop result and lynch him afterwards. If he flips town we have won a lot, if he flips scum we haven't lost that much. A little info and maybe one usage of scum-PR!Jakes' power but nothing more. A cop result is huge in contrast to that.
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The more I think about it, the more I like the Jake lynch.
He played Portal Mafia, got comfortable with the game, claimed VT and got lynched.
Now he's a big boy with a game under his belt, and he figured he could safely claim a PR here. What's a PR he's familiar with? Cop!
Then he has his self voting thing, which is super scummy and totally not cool if he's town.
Mod, was scum provided with fake flavor names?
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The more I think about it, the more I like the Jake lynch.
He played Portal Mafia, got comfortable with the game, claimed VT and got lynched.
Now he's a big boy with a game under his belt, and he figured he could safely claim a PR here. What's a PR he's familiar with? Cop!
Then he has his self voting thing, which is super scummy and totally not cool if he's town.
Mod, was scum provided with fake flavor names?
Vote for Jake!
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Calamitas, thank you for taking the time to run the numbers! The chance of Jake being scum is higher than I'd expected... it's like 2/3 chance of him being scum with some margins.
I think the factor in not lynching Jake now that is being under-discussed is what to do if we lose more than just one townie in the night. I feel like we've got some good PRs, so scum probably gets to be powered-up too. I kind of think that's exactly what LL would do in designing a game, because he likes to make people happy, and having purpose and a power makes people much more happy and engaged :-)
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Calamitas, thank you for taking the time to run the numbers! The chance of Jake being scum is higher than I'd expected... it's like 2/3 chance of him being scum with some margins.
I think the factor in not lynching Jake now that is being under-discussed is what to do if we lose more than just one townie in the night. I feel like we've got some good PRs, so scum probably gets to be powered-up too. I kind of think that's exactly what LL would do in designing a game, because he likes to make people happy, and having purpose and a power makes people much more happy and engaged :-)
Is losing multiple people at night a thing that happens in normal games? I thought from the sound of the reaction in the last RMM worms game that it was sort unusual for that to happen.
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Nevermind my last message. Did some reading and figured out some of the roles that can cause that.
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You know, if Jake isn't lynched, there could potentially be a way for town to then figure out for sure if Jake is scum D2.
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Really need Eevee to weigh in. Is he still VLA?
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Since this is the only game I'm in, I'll just say it here, but I will potentially be VLA for a few days. I will probably be able to log in and vote before the deadline, but if I'm quiet to start D2, that's why.
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Really need Eevee to weigh in. Is he still VLA?
Did he say he was VLA? I think the last thing he posted was catching up after an absence.
Lekkit said his work was short-staffed too, which is presumably why he's now over 24h. I'd like to hear more from him about the Jake wagon thinking now, since he seemed to be talking sense earlier on.
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TBH the self vote makes me think Jake is town.
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TBH the self vote makes me think Jake is town.
Are you kidding?
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The self-vote makes him much scummier in my book. I still think McGarnacle is a better lynch for today. I'm warming up to a Jake lynch though
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McGarn is a much better option today.
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OK i've been reading and i'll just vote for whoever you guys want me too (including myself) in the next 3 votes right now
it stands
McG (2)
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OK i've been reading and i'll just vote for whoever you guys want me too (including myself) in the next 3 votes right now
it stands
McG (2)
Would prefer to lynch McG though
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If I get 5 votes on me I'll just vote myself and you people can chose to hammer me or not. My scum reads are McG, Calm, Robz and Lek
Oh and PPS in this order
McG>Robz>Calm>PPS>Lek>Dylan>IDPTG>RR>Big G>SA>Ee
This is interesting. Assuming Jake is scum (which we are pretty sure he is), we know he knows who everyone is. Obviously, he wasn't stupid enough to put his partner at the bottom of the list and all the town PR's at the top, but we can have a rough idea. I'm guessing he put his partner near the top in order to detract suspicion, but he probably also put at least some of the town PR's near the top. I'm proposing a Calamitas/Jake scumteam.
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Jake has no idea who the town PRs are.
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If I get 5 votes on me I'll just vote myself and you people can chose to hammer me or not. My scum reads are McG, Calm, Robz and Lek
Oh and PPS in this order
McG>Robz>Calm>PPS>Lek>Dylan>IDPTG>RR>Big G>SA>Ee
This is interesting. Assuming Jake is scum (which we are pretty sure he is), we know he knows who everyone is. Obviously, he wasn't stupid enough to put his partner at the bottom of the list and all the town PR's at the top, but we can have a rough idea. I'm guessing he put his partner near the top in order to detract suspicion, but he probably also put at least some of the town PR's near the top. I'm proposing a Calamitas/Jake scumteam.
It's also interesting that first he rated his scumreads as Me, Calm and Robz, but then later switched the last 2 around. But maybe I'm just grasping at straws here.
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Jake has no idea who the town PRs are.
I thought PPS said they do.
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Jake has no idea who the town PRs are.
I thought PPS said they do.
No they would just know who is and isn't mafia
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Now I'm sort of confused. Did both of you just use singular they as Jake's pronoun?
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Jake has no idea who the town PRs are.
I thought PPS said they do.
PPS pointed out that scum knows everyone's alignment -- i.e. scum or non-scum -- because the scums know who each other are, so that means they know who the townies are too... but that doesn't mean they know who's got what role within town.
I can't decide if you're asking ultra-newbie questions to look more newbie again, or because you're genuinely not joining the dots. Or the other theory is that you're scum with PPS, he planted a joke about the SK early in the game, and you two are looking to see who bites because scums traditionally don't like SKs very much if they know there's one out there.
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Now I'm sort of confused. Did both of you just use singular they as Jake's pronoun?
It's a natural enough thing to do. Or they could just be talking about they-the-scum-team.
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I think McG is looking like a very good D-1 lynch with his bad defenses and his scum slips so Vote: McGarnacle
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McGarnacle just had a town slip but I don't know if it was fabricated or not
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He's also reminding me of how I played in my first scum game
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McGarfield is looking townier by the minute. I was suspicious just because generally nobody agrees with me. I'm still suspicious of Robz for it.
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Jake has no idea who the town PRs are.
I thought PPS said they do.
I can't decide if you're asking ultra-newbie questions to look more newbie again, or because you're genuinely not joining the dots. Or the other theory is that you're scum with PPS, he planted a joke about the SK early in the game, and you two are looking to see who bites because scums traditionally don't like SKs very much if they know there's one out there.
I'm insulted.
I think McG is looking like a very good D-1 lynch with his bad defenses and his scum slips so Vote: McGarnacle
How did I scumslip?
McGarnacle just had a town slip but I don't know if it was fabricated or not
How did I townslip?
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Can we get a vote count?
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If I get 5 votes on me I'll just vote myself and you people can chose to hammer me or not. My scum reads are McG, Calm, Robz and Lek
Oh and PPS in this order
McG>Robz>Calm>PPS>Lek>Dylan>IDPTG>RR>Big G>SA>Ee
This is interesting. Assuming Jake is scum (which we are pretty sure he is), we know he knows who everyone is. Obviously, he wasn't stupid enough to put his partner at the bottom of the list and all the town PR's at the top, but we can have a rough idea. I'm guessing he put his partner near the top in order to detract suspicion, but he probably also put at least some of the town PR's near the top. I'm proposing a Calamitas/Jake scumteam.
Maybe scum slip I think so but he's playing exactley like I did my first time as scum which I think is a major scum tell. I can give examples if people want
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Vote count by Jake
Jake (4): IDPTG, Robz, Ee, McG
McG (5): SA, Lek, Calm, Big G, Jake
Calm (1): Dylan
SA (1): PPS
Not Voting: RR
This is accurate I think just tell me if anyone is in the wrong column
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If I get 5 votes on me I'll just vote myself and you people can chose to hammer me or not. My scum reads are McG, Calm, Robz and Lek
Oh and PPS in this order
McG>Robz>Calm>PPS>Lek>Dylan>IDPTG>RR>Big G>SA>Ee
This is interesting. Assuming Jake is scum (which we are pretty sure he is), we know he knows who everyone is. Obviously, he wasn't stupid enough to put his partner at the bottom of the list and all the town PR's at the top, but we can have a rough idea. I'm guessing he put his partner near the top in order to detract suspicion, but he probably also put at least some of the town PR's near the top. I'm proposing a Calamitas/Jake scumteam.
Maybe scum slip I think so but he's playing exactley like I did my first time as scum which I think is a major scum tell. I can give examples if people want
Uh, that's not a scumslip.
Vote count by Jake
Jake (4): IDPTG, Robz, Ee, McG
McG (5): SA, Lek, Calm, Big G, Jake
Calm (1): Dylan
SA (1): PPS
Not Voting: RR
This is accurate I think just tell me if anyone is in the wrong column
Thanks
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McGeneral thought scum knew who all the town PRs are. That's a town slip
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McGeneral thought scum knew who all the town PRs are. That's a town slip
Yes, but it's so newbie-town that it can't be real, can it? He's got two or three games under his belt now at least, hasn't he?
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McGeneral thought scum knew who all the town PRs are. That's a town slip
Yes, but it's so newbie-town that it can't be real, can it? He's got two or three games under his belt now at least, hasn't he?
Two town games according to his sig. And I agree, this cannot be real.
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Yeah that's what I meant by scum slip because he's not that newbie anymore
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McGeneral thought scum knew who all the town PRs are. That's a town slip
Yes, but it's so newbie-town that it can't be real, can it? He's got two or three games under his belt now at least, hasn't he?
Two town games according to his sig. And I agree, this cannot be real.
I assure you it is. But setups, etc. still confuse me. Plus I've never been scum, so I don't know how that part works.
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McGeneral thought scum knew who all the town PRs are. That's a town slip
Yes, but it's so newbie-town that it can't be real, can it? He's got two or three games under his belt now at least, hasn't he?
Two town games according to his sig. And I agree, this cannot be real.
I assure you it is. But setups, etc. still confuse me. Plus I've never been scum, so I don't know how that part works.
Wow that was a massive no McG can we lynch him already.
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McGeneral thought scum knew who all the town PRs are. That's a town slip
Yes, but it's so newbie-town that it can't be real, can it? He's got two or three games under his belt now at least, hasn't he?
Two town games according to his sig. And I agree, this cannot be real.
I assure you it is. But setups, etc. still confuse me. Plus I've never been scum, so I don't know how that part works.
Wow that was a massive no McG can we lynch him already.
Nope.
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McGeneral thought scum knew who all the town PRs are. That's a town slip
Yes, but it's so newbie-town that it can't be real, can it? He's got two or three games under his belt now at least, hasn't he?
Two town games according to his sig. And I agree, this cannot be real.
I assure you it is. But setups, etc. still confuse me. Plus I've never been scum, so I don't know how that part works.
Wow that was a massive no McG can we lynch him already.
What? What's the problem with him saying that?
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McGeneral thought scum knew who all the town PRs are. That's a town slip
Yes, but it's so newbie-town that it can't be real, can it? He's got two or three games under his belt now at least, hasn't he?
Two town games according to his sig. And I agree, this cannot be real.
I assure you it is. But setups, etc. still confuse me. Plus I've never been scum, so I don't know how that part works.
Wow that was a massive no McG can we lynch him already.
As scummy as McGarnacle is sounding, this sounds worse.
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1. It's not like playing scum is some art you have to master to perfection.
2. I know that your a good enough player to see that that is a scum drop so why are you defending him unless your one of his partners
3. I'm calling a RR and McG scum team
4. I got ripped for saying things like that in Mafia 87 where I was scum and you did some of the ripping RR so don't pretend you don't see how that isn't scummy
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How'd we go from this:
McG>Robz>Calm>PPS>Lek>Dylan>IDPTG>RR>Big G>SA>Ee
To this:
3. I'm calling a RR and McG scum team
Jake seems to think that if someone disagrees with him, they're scum.
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1. It's not like playing scum is some art you have to master to perfection.
2. I know that your a good enough player to see that that is a scum drop so why are you defending him unless your one of his partners
3. I'm calling a RR and McG scum team
4. I got ripped for saying things like that in Mafia 87 where I was scum and you did some of the ripping RR so don't pretend you don't see how that isn't scummy
Assuming that was in response to me, right now, I think Jake and McGarnacle are both scum. I also think Jake is the better lynch tonight, mainly because I'm not convinced that his Cop claim is real.
PPE: 1
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1. It's not like playing scum is some art you have to master to perfection.
2. I know that your a good enough player to see that that is a scum drop so why are you defending him unless your one of his partners
3. I'm calling a RR and McG scum team
4. I got ripped for saying things like that in Mafia 87 where I was scum and you did some of the ripping RR so don't pretend you don't see how that isn't scummy
Assuming that was in response to me, right now, I think Jake and McGarnacle are both scum. I also think Jake is the better lynch tonight, mainly because I'm not convinced that his Cop claim is real.
PPE: 1
I'm pretty sure that was in response to me, but I'm not sure
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1. It's not like playing scum is some art you have to master to perfection.
2. I know that your a good enough player to see that that is a scum drop so why are you defending him unless your one of his partners
3. I'm calling a RR and McG scum team
4. I got ripped for saying things like that in Mafia 87 where I was scum and you did some of the ripping RR so don't pretend you don't see how that isn't scummy
Assuming that was in response to me, right now, I think Jake and McGarnacle are both scum. I also think Jake is the better lynch tonight, mainly because I'm not convinced that his Cop claim is real.
PPE: 1
I'm pretty sure that was in response to me, but I'm not sure
Oh. Oops.
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How'd we go from this:
McG>Robz>Calm>PPS>Lek>Dylan>IDPTG>RR>Big G>SA>Ee
To this:
3. I'm calling a RR and McG scum team
Jake seems to think that if someone disagrees with him, they're scum.
Pretty sure that reads can change and that was to RR but I don't think these were the best choice of words but I was basically asking how you guys are not seeing that McG is scum
Wow that was a massive no McG can we lynch him already.
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Can you explain his scum slip please?
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So. Caught up.
I'm still not convinced Jake is scum. The way I see it there are some stuff worth noting when it comes to lynching or not lynching Jake.
Reasons to lynch him: He hasn't really been effectively scumhunting. He's been throwing around accusations; suspect Jake and you're scum. His cop claim was the very thing scum would claim.
Reasons not to lynch him: His interactions with others will not tell us much at all. Basically everyone has been on the top of his scum list aside from Eevee. People have in general been in favor of lynching him with some exceptions. Up until the cop claim, people haven't really said much about him other than "he's obviously scum!", "He's annoying" and "lynch him quick!". There's also the fact that he might be a cop. There was no counterclaim, so he's either a town cop or town has no cop. Another thing to note is that between him acknowledging that he was at L-1 and him claiming cop, there was almost half an hour. 45 minutes from him posting after others said he was at L-1. If he had prepared fake claims, wouldn't he claim cop faster?
In general, I feel like he's kind of confused and throws a lot of fancy terms around without really knowing what they mean. This could either be a new and slightly confused player or pretty genious scum trying to play new and slightly confused.
I don't think Jake is our best bet for today.
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1. It's not like playing scum is some art you have to master to perfection.
2. I know that your a good enough player to see that that is a scum drop so why are you defending him unless your one of his partners
I'd also like to point out that you first say it's easy to play scum and then assumes he does the most obvious scum play ever.
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1. It's not like playing scum is some art you have to master to perfection.
2. I know that your a good enough player to see that that is a scum drop so why are you defending him unless your one of his partners
I'd also like to point out that you first say it's easy to play scum and then assumes he does the most obvious scum play ever.
I didn't say its easy but McG was saying that's he can;t be scum because he has no clue how and I was just pointing out that it's not mega difficult and requires multiple games of experience as scum to know what to do. You still aren't very good your first time buts its not impossible.
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And now for something more interesting.
Who do I read town and who do I read scum?
1. JakeTheBaseballGod22 - I think he looks scummy, but for some reason I feel like he's just confused town who got a lot of heat for his playstyle. I can very much relate to this as I pretty much always get a lot of flak for having a pretty low post count and being pretty lurky in general. His playstyle is the opposite. Overall, my gut says town. I think this is a bad lynch.
2. GKrieg13 - Very low profile. Steps in to say something that makes a lot of sense. Feels town to me. Not lynching.
3. Roadrunner7671 - Kind of null. Feels like he's been hiding in plain sight. I feel like his interactions with Jake have been pretty scummy, but as soon as it's not Jake related (which it rarely is) it feels more towny. Wouldn't mind lynching, but I think there are others that are better to lynch.
4. Calamitas - Definately been doing some shady stuff. The flavor claim request is super weird if coming from town. It's weird coming from scum, but I can see it being more likely coming from scum than town. Back in reply #259 we get some reads. Which all say null. Feels like he's not even trying to find scum. Honestly, I don't get all that math stuff. It seems like you're trying to be rational about the chances of finding scum instead of looking at what people are saying. Why not just roll a dice and see who it lands on. That way we have number of scum/12 chance to hit! The whole delayed lynch doesn't make sense to me as from experience, the one who is supposed to be lynched next day almost never is. Overall scummy. Would certainly not mind lynching.
5. SpaceAnemone - Have been awfully quiet. Honestly, I can't remember much game related they said. It's pretty bad when you recall someone as "the one PPS finds scummy for no reason I understand". Would be fine with lynching.
6. McGarnacle - Again, said a bunch of stuff that I find really scummy. The only redeeming thing was the townslip regarding scum knowing who the PRs are. But after questioning if scum even knew each other, I feel like this is more likely fabricated than real. Would certainly not mind lynching.
7. Idontplaythisgame - Has mostly been looking for scum, which is great. But have been really quiet. Overall feels like town to me. Wouldn't lynch.
8. Lekkit - Hey, that's me!
9. Dylan32 - The one to put Jake at L-1. Feels like he's talking more about rules and theory than the game itself. Which is a good way to sound towny and helpful, while actually not helping with the game itself. In general most of his stuff is more concering the game state (who is playing, who is active, what's in the setup and whatnot) than trying to figure out who is scum. This to me is VERY scummy. Would lynch.
10. PingPongSam - Has a lot to say, apparently. We seem to disagree on a lot. He is moving the game forward, though. I mean. Currently, I feel like he's the playing helping town the most. Would not lynch. That said, I can't say I have a strong scum or town read on him. I'm leaning slightly more towards town than scum. But the whole SA thing seems weird to me. And the fact that he ignored the Calamitas wagon.
11. Robz888 - Hasn't said much. Could lynch, but I think there are definately better lynchees today.
12. Eevee - Have also taken a pretty low profile so far. Did a large post way back. Which was actually very towny. He wasn't just listing every read and not having anything to go on. He actually forced his opinions. Which I think is more of a town thing than a scum thing. Trying to find even the smallest flaw in someone's play. However, Eevee is an experienced player and would probably do that as scum as well. But I'm not entirely sure it would come out of the blue like that. I get towny vibes from him, at least. Wouldn't lynch.
So basically, I would lynch McG or Calamitas today. Could probably lynch Dylan as well.
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Can you explain his scum slip please?
Plus I've never been scum, so I don't know how that part works. Ok so this along with other similar things said in my opinion very scummy and here's why.
So this is McG's whole defense that he can't be scum because one he doesn't know how to and two McG he can't be scum because he has never been scum before. Also this is reminding me very much of my first game as scum in Mafia 87 where i tried basically the same/veyr similar defenses.
Why is the IC so important? (M87)
So in this i'm asking newbie questions to show why I can't be scum even though I knew what the answers were and was much like McG has been doing (Not just me saying this)
If so what role how do we not know your not mafia claiming to be a PR to lynch me (M87)
I also played the exact same defense in that game of what McG is doing to me. For people who didn't play mafia 87 let me explain. It was D-2 and robz had claimed a Pr role who had targeted me and gotten a scum response and I went off on him claiming that he was scum trying to lynch me with a fake claim and there was no counter claim so I said that his role wan't in the game. McG has been doing the same thing to me.
Seriously you're killing me for no reason other than one person say so that stupid Vote: Robz (M87)
This is much like what McG has been saying about that my claim is false because its the obvious scum play using the accusation to try and wiggle my way out of being lynched.
This concludes my post any questions just ask
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See now that is a case.
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Jake, thank you for the content. Posts like this with concrete examples and/or clear reasoning are actually helpful in presenting your point of view and will help us at least see where you are coming from, regardless of whether or not we actually agree with you.
Now for my likely last comments before the end of the day (no Wi-Fi, limited data)
I'm actually torn between viewing Jake and mcg as scum. My opinion on Jake has gone back and forth between town and scum repeatedly due to different statements or cases made by or against him. McG was one of the first people this game I read as slightly scummy, but I withheld that opinion because I decided to watch how he handled Jake's accusations without adding my own. That for sure might not have been the best play in retrospect, but it made sense to me at the time.
I really wish more people had paid attention to the calamitas wagon, if for no other reason than to try to get more info for a better read on them. I still am inclined to think cal is scum, but it looks like that lynch isn't gonna happen, so I'll give for now.
vote: McG, and if he is lynched and flips town, there's very little that will be able to convince me Jake is town.
Lekkit, yeah I probably do talk theory quite a bit. Several times I've brought it up was to point out flawed logic to prevent a bad or rash decision based on bad assumptions (e.g. Whether or not scum would actually try to kill Jake N1 if he is town and isn't lynched). A lot of the conversation has been about whether or not Jake or others is a good idea for N1, and that seemed to be the times I was able to get online most often, so those were the relevant comments at that point.
That said, I do see your point about too much of that potentially being scummy in some situations, but in others it can be really valuable for town.
PPE1
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Clarity edit: "whether or not lynching Jake or others is a good idea for D1."
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Vote Count 1.7
JakeTheBaseballGod22 (4): Robz888, Eevee, McGarnacle, IDontPlayThisGame
McGarnacle (6): SpaceAnemone, Lekkit, Calamitas, GKrieg13, JakeTheBaseballGod22, Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (1): pingpongsam
Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday Nov 20 at 1 pm, which is 8,5 hours from now.
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Mod, was scum provided with fake flavor names?
I may not answer this question
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I only have 5 mins, but I really want to address the Calamitas suspicion a bit.
The comments of "I don't get the math stuff" or "maths is scummy" is utter nonsense. In my post at #484, I specifically asked Calamitas to do exactly the computation he did, because I'm really struggling for time over this weekend, and I trusted him to get it right more than the rest of you! And yes, I know there was suspicion on him from the weird request for Jake to name his card (and I agree it is potentially scummy), but being able to calculate the probability of Jake being scum given that he'd claimed cop is not indicative of alignment.
As for the numbers themselves, yes, there's a really high chance that Jake is scum, but I agree with Calamitas that the possibility of losing a cop risky, especially if we have other PRs who can help us, so I'm really hesitant to commit to that lynch. I'm going to be away for a few hours now, but I'll try really hard to get back in time for the deadline, and I would consider shifting my vote if needed.
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I'm sorry guys. I've had no wifi for the past two days, should have posted in the VLA thread but I didn't realize it would be quite like that.
I'm caught up to page 20 as of now, strongly agree with PPS and Robz that Jake's claim seems very opportunistic, and much more likely to come from mafia. It's of course a question of numbers, but I would guess that the chance of there being a cop is much much lower than the chance of Jake choosing cop - the best of fake claims - as his claim. Something like 35% there is a cop, 65% Jake would choose to fakeclaim cop as mafia. Also, the cop might not even be of any use for us (if there is no doctor, if scum has a roleblocker or a strongman).
So, still catching up, more to come. Also think PPS is much more of an IC than Robz if Jake flips scum.
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Not strictly better, but the drawback is minimal. We may even assume Jake has flipped scum right now and (if we wish to do so) use that info for today's lynch.
I mean, I guess we just agree. I think you're way understating the drawback and assuming we'll have better info tomorrow, which might not even be the case. And it just never works to pretend someone got lynched.
The drawback is minimal. We can still analyze Jakes interaction and base our D1 lynch on that. Tomorrow, we let Jake claim his cop result and lynch him afterwards. If he flips town we have won a lot, if he flips scum we haven't lost that much. A little info and maybe one usage of scum-PR!Jakes' power but nothing more. A cop result is huge in contrast to that.
I don't like this - there will always be new information tomorrow, and we won't just want to ignore it, whatever we say now.
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If I get 5 votes on me I'll just vote myself and you people can chose to hammer me or not. My scum reads are McG, Calm, Robz and Lek
Oh and PPS in this order
McG>Robz>Calm>PPS>Lek>Dylan>IDPTG>RR>Big G>SA>Ee
How can I be your top town read after not posting for days? This feels very fabricated. The self-vote I think is much much more often from frustrated town though. Does anyone have stats on that? It's always been my feeling that self-votes usually spiral into mislynches.
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Nevermind my last message. Did some reading and figured out some of the roles that can cause that.
You are showing really impressive analysis given your previous experience, very well done!
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Hopefully people will get on in time to avoid no lynch (ironic coming from me, I know). I still think I prefer Jake, although the self-vote gives me pause. It's also easily the most informative lynch, as people have been taking strong stances on him - especially if we hit scum, his partner ought to be in a huge disadvantage going forward. Also, just how the votes are split right now, I think we can ignore McGarnacle and Jake both being scum (at least same kind of scum), so no-lynch seems like a disaster here for us here.
I don't really have a strong feeling on McGarnacle one way or the other, I do remember him seeming opportunistic earlier. But, then again, if you seem opportunistic about lynching Jake and Jake flips scum, it's not suspicious but awesomely towny, so I'd rather just lynch Jake here. Would feel very stupid if we let him live and he was scum. If he is scum with a power role, letting him live even one night allows them to take advantage of the role.
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Can you explain his scum slip please?
Plus I've never been scum, so I don't know how that part works. Ok so this along with other similar things said in my opinion very scummy and here's why.
So this is McG's whole defense that he can't be scum because one he doesn't know how to and two McG he can't be scum because he has never been scum before. Also this is reminding me very much of my first game as scum in Mafia 87 where i tried basically the same/veyr similar defenses.
Why is the IC so important? (M87)
So in this i'm asking newbie questions to show why I can't be scum even though I knew what the answers were and was much like McG has been doing (Not just me saying this)
If so what role how do we not know your not mafia claiming to be a PR to lynch me (M87)
I also played the exact same defense in that game of what McG is doing to me. For people who didn't play mafia 87 let me explain. It was D-2 and robz had claimed a Pr role who had targeted me and gotten a scum response and I went off on him claiming that he was scum trying to lynch me with a fake claim and there was no counter claim so I said that his role wan't in the game. McG has been doing the same thing to me.
Seriously you're killing me for no reason other than one person say so that stupid Vote: Robz (M87)
This is much like what McG has been saying about that my claim is false because its the obvious scum play using the accusation to try and wiggle my way out of being lynched.
This concludes my post any questions just ask
I'm not saying I'm completely incapable of playing scum, I'm just saying I have zero experience. And experience counts for quite a bit. In Times Loops Mafia I FORGOT to use my PR on Night 1 or 2. I don't get why you guys are saying I'm not newbie enough to make such a slip. Considering I was barely active in my 2nd game of mafia and I died a few days into my 1st game, I have played about 4 full days of mafia. Then, when I townslip, you say I'm too experienced to make such an obvious slip, but not experienced enough to see how lame and scummy it is to make a fake townslip and then defend it afterwards.
Jake, on the other hand, is currently involved in another game and died early in another, meaning he has barely less experience then me. His behavior is textbook scummy (all the OMGUS, the possible scumslip, his general behavior and his meta). However, only like, 1/3 of the people in this game seem to see all of this, or for some reason seem to think I'm more scummy.
I also suggest someone unvotes on me, so that one of the scum doesn't come along and hammer me. But, on second thought, I'm 99% sure scum is already on my wagon.
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Just realized I totally screwed up my bayesian calculation since I didn't take the "no-counterclaim" evidence into account. With that taken into account the probabilty of Jake being scum goes down to about 1:1(50%).
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Just realized I totally screwed up my bayesian calculation since I didn't take the "no-counterclaim" evidence into account. With that taken into account the probabilty of Jake being scum goes down to about 1:1(50%).
What is the probability of me being scum according to your calculations?
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But either way, lynching Jake is awfully wrong. The drawback of a cop misslynch is just way too high.
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Just realized I totally screwed up my bayesian calculation since I didn't take the "no-counterclaim" evidence into account. With that taken into account the probabilty of Jake being scum goes down to about 1:1(50%).
What is the probability of me being scum according to your calculations?
I don't have calculations for any other case since Jake's is the only one with concrete evidence (cop-claim) instead of just posting.
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If someone plans on hammering me, please give me due warning. I have some things to say first.
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Can you explain his scum slip please?
Plus I've never been scum, so I don't know how that part works. Ok so this along with other similar things said in my opinion very scummy and here's why.
So this is McG's whole defense that he can't be scum because one he doesn't know how to and two McG he can't be scum because he has never been scum before. Also this is reminding me very much of my first game as scum in Mafia 87 where i tried basically the same/veyr similar defenses.
Why is the IC so important? (M87)
So in this i'm asking newbie questions to show why I can't be scum even though I knew what the answers were and was much like McG has been doing (Not just me saying this)
If so what role how do we not know your not mafia claiming to be a PR to lynch me (M87)
I also played the exact same defense in that game of what McG is doing to me. For people who didn't play mafia 87 let me explain. It was D-2 and robz had claimed a Pr role who had targeted me and gotten a scum response and I went off on him claiming that he was scum trying to lynch me with a fake claim and there was no counter claim so I said that his role wan't in the game. McG has been doing the same thing to me.
Seriously you're killing me for no reason other than one person say so that stupid Vote: Robz (M87)
This is much like what McG has been saying about that my claim is false because its the obvious scum play using the accusation to try and wiggle my way out of being lynched.
This concludes my post any questions just ask
I'm not saying I'm completely incapable of playing scum, I'm just saying I have zero experience. And experience counts for quite a bit. In Times Loops Mafia I FORGOT to use my PR on Night 1 or 2. I don't get why you guys are saying I'm not newbie enough to make such a slip. Considering I was barely active in my 2nd game of mafia and I died a few days into my 1st game, I have played about 4 full days of mafia. Then, when I townslip, you say I'm too experienced to make such an obvious slip, but not experienced enough to see how lame and scummy it is to make a fake townslip and then defend it afterwards.
Jake, on the other hand, is currently involved in another game and died early in another, meaning he has barely less experience then me. His behavior is textbook scummy (all the OMGUS, the possible scumslip, his general behavior and his meta). However, only like, 1/3 of the people in this game seem to see all of this, or for some reason seem to think I'm more scummy.
I also suggest someone unvotes on me, so that one of the scum doesn't come along and hammer me. But, on second thought, I'm 99% sure scum is already on my wagon.
I bolded some parts in this post that I would like to analyze for everyone. The first bolded part is just McG proving what I was saying about one of his defenses being that he is too newbie to be scum. I have already shown why this is a scum tell in my last post.
The second bolded part is about me. In it he says that I am scum because of my behavior/meta/OMGUS which is all the same thing to me but whateves. One drawback to this accentuation is that no one knows how I play as town. It's also a drawback for McG because he's never been scum before. But really I'm not fufilling my meta at all. My meta from my first game was spam posting in little post with no evidence to back me up. Now I think i'm not doing that but if so can someone tell me.
Third what scumslip McG?
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If someone plans on hammering me, please give me due warning. I have some things to say first.
Please say these things now before some one does
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Jake's case is sort of built on the assumption that scum!McGrape would play the same as scum!Jake, and I don't think that's a fair assumption. Jake is a very unique player, and I wouldn't compare him to McGodzilla, I'd contrast him.
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I would also just like too say that the olny reason that McG has for me being scum is that claiming cop is a scummy thing to do. Also he can't back that up with any evidence
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Jake's case is sort of built on the assumption that scum!McGrape would play the same as scum!Jake, and I don't think that's a fair assumption. Jake is a very unique player, and I wouldn't compare him to McGodzilla, I'd contrast him.
But he is playing very simmlary to me when I was scum and I can build a case of how diffidently he plays as town than too now.
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I would also just like too say that the olny reason that McG has for me being scum is that claiming cop is a scummy thing to do. Also he can't back that up with any evidence
He could just look at PPS's posts if he needed evidence. There is evidence that your cop claim is scummy, that's why you have several votes on you.
PPE
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Jake's case is sort of built on the assumption that scum!McGrape would play the same as scum!Jake, and I don't think that's a fair assumption. Jake is a very unique player, and I wouldn't compare him to McGodzilla, I'd contrast him.
But he is playing very simmlary to me when I was scum and I can build a case of how diffidently he plays as town than too now.
Again, it doesn't really matter. I might play how you play as scum when I'm town, and vice versa. This is because we are different people with different styles. McGondola is a different person with a style different than yours. Maybe he plays how you play as scum when he's town.
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Jake's case is sort of built on the assumption that scum!McGrape would play the same as scum!Jake, and I don't think that's a fair assumption. Jake is a very unique player, and I wouldn't compare him to McGodzilla, I'd contrast him.
But he is playing very simmlary to me when I was scum and I can build a case of how diffidently he plays as town than too now.
Than build that case.
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Just re-read McGarnacle and I my scumread on him got enhanced.
He starts the game with a post that basically sais "I'm so newbie"
I've never won a game of mafia, and I've always been town. So on the one hand, that's good, on the other, its bad.
Nothing significant for a couple of posts then jumps on the first semi-serious vote right away (#81).
So, we have a McGarnacle, Gkreig, IDP scum team. Glad I'm voting one of them already.
Um, why is that?
On an unrelated note, how come posts in mafia game threads do not increase your post count.
Feeling the need to defend yourself because someone made an obvious RVS post is pretty scummy I think.
After a more of a re-read, I'd like to vote: McGarnacle.
Yeah that seems...odd
I'm not getting strong scum reads on anyone yet, but McGarnacle's set himself us as the innocent bewildered newbie, which was exactly what I did when I was scum. Vets have a habit of believing it from a newbie, and there are lots of extreme vets around. There's another thing, too, but ask me again sometime later in D1.
In my first game of mafia, I acted in a similar fashion, and I was town.
Again hides behind his meta
Jumps on the next semi-serious wagon in #217, again sheeping.
My reads-
Jake- My strongest scumread. For all the reasons already listed.
SA- Feels like town, but in a different way then in that first game ;).
RR- Maybe he and Jake are the scumteam just putting on a show and distracting us?
Also, this is very suspicious:
No, we don't want new reads. Or at least I don't :P
You don't want anything except to lynch me
That's really all I have.
This is totally the kind of readlist I expect from scum. Readlists appear generally towny (or so newbie!scum thinks) and there has been nothing substantial in there. Just sheeping, hiding behind already stated reasons and a bit fluffy stuff.
In my other two games here on f.ds, I mentioned if I had no idea who was scum, just like I am this game. Both times, I was town.
Again, hiding behind his meta.
IIRC there's no way for us to know if there is or is not a cop in this game. This is a fantastic claim for scum to make because guess what scum knows; everyone's alignment!
Wait, was that in the setup? I don't remember seeing it.
This seems fabricated.
Currently don't have time for analyses the second half of McGarn's play but his lynch is orders of magnitudes better than Jakes'.
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Jake's case is sort of built on the assumption that scum!McGrape would play the same as scum!Jake, and I don't think that's a fair assumption. Jake is a very unique player, and I wouldn't compare him to McGodzilla, I'd contrast him.
But he is playing very simmlary to me when I was scum and I can build a case of how diffidently he plays as town than too now.
Than build that case.
Ok so first I would like too point out that in the game I was analyzing with McG in it he had a total of 8 posts D-1(All of the posts were votes and unvotes) and then fewer each day till he died. That shows that he lurks when town.
vote: JReggie for lack of a better choice
One for all of his posts they were votes or unvotes. That's it. He didn't move the game along at all. In this game so far McG has a total of 69 posts with 4 votes all but one have been for me. That's less votes but 8x more posts. These numbers show that he has changed his playstyle a lot from M87 where he was town. Also he voted for 6 different people in M87 and in this game he has voted for only one... Me.
Vote: JTBG22
Just another example and I think that this with my other cases and calm's case are enough proof that he is scum
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Eevee, do you think there's only two mafia?
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Hey guys, I will switch to McG in order to get a lynch if that's what's needed. I don't really have strong feelings about McG, and have no problem lynching him, except I would vastly prefer a Jake lynch.
I want to rage vote Calamitas for assigning nonsense statistics to all of this, but it's too late for any other wagons I think.
Come to think of it, I'm worried we had too few wagons today. If Jake is scum he did a really effective job of confining the conversation to just him. This is a problem we will continue to have tomorrow if we don't lynch him.
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Hey guys, I will switch to McG in order to get a lynch if that's what's needed. I don't really have strong feelings about McG, and have no problem lynching him, except I would vastly prefer a Jake lynch.
I want to rage vote Calamitas for assigning nonsense statistics to all of this, but it's too late for any other wagons I think.
Come to think of it, I'm worried we had too few wagons today. If Jake is scum he did a really effective job of confining the conversation to just him. This is a problem we will continue to have tomorrow if we don't lynch him.
Is this an intent to hammer me?
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Seems like it to me.
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Hey guys, I will switch to McG in order to get a lynch if that's what's needed. I don't really have strong feelings about McG, and have no problem lynching him, except I would vastly prefer a Jake lynch.
I want to rage vote Calamitas for assigning nonsense statistics to all of this, but it's too late for any other wagons I think.
Come to think of it, I'm worried we had too few wagons today. If Jake is scum he did a really effective job of confining the conversation to just him. This is a problem we will continue to have tomorrow if we don't lynch him.
Is this an intent to hammer me?
Yes.
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I also have intent to hammer, I liked Calamitas's case.
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I want to rage vote Calamitas for assigning nonsense statistics to all of this, but it's too late for any other wagons I think.
This is not nonsense statistic.
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Shoot, I didn't want it to come to this. I'm the Doctor. Funny thing, now one of you guys is more likely to die tonight, because if I don't get lynched today, I'm pretty sure the scum will try to kill me at night, so I will use my PR to save myself instead of one of you.
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By telling everyone how you're going to use your PR, you've made a mistake. Don't tell us how you're going to use your PR.
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Shoot, I didn't want it to come to this. I'm the Doctor. Funny thing, now one of you guys is more likely to die tonight, because if I don't get lynched today, I'm pretty sure the scum will try to kill me at night, so I will use my PR to save myself instead of one of you.
This is also bad, because assuming Jake is NOT scum (which is extremely unlikely), 2 of our power roles have been uncovered.
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Shoot, I didn't want it to come to this. I'm the Doctor. Funny thing, now one of you guys is more likely to die tonight, because if I don't get lynched today, I'm pretty sure the scum will try to kill me at night, so I will use my PR to save myself instead of one of you.
Doctors can't self target
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By telling everyone how you're going to use your PR, you've made a mistake. Don't tell us how you're going to use your PR.
Maybe I'm saying that to through people off. Or maybe I'll change my mind.
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Shoot, I didn't want it to come to this. I'm the Doctor. Funny thing, now one of you guys is more likely to die tonight, because if I don't get lynched today, I'm pretty sure the scum will try to kill me at night, so I will use my PR to save myself instead of one of you.
Doctors can't self target
Crap.
I'm dead.
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If this is anything resembling a normal game, doctors can't save themselves. That's the most standard rule there is.
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If Jake really is a Cop they'd kill him first probably
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Does McG not knowing that make his claim more likely to be false?
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And you're not necessarily dead. There are a number of reasons as to why scum wouldn't want to kill you
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Does McG not knowing that make his claim more likely to be false?
I think having a Cop and a Doctor in this setup makes one of the claims likely to be false.
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I think not knowing what the doctor does is solid evidence of not being the doctor.
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Well, or is this typical of McG?
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Well, or is this typical of McG?
In newbie mafia he didn't use his PR the first few nights.
I don't know if there's a nice way to say this, but he seems sort of likely to mess up a claim, fake or real. Sort of like me!
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In IRL games I've played it's not uncommon for doctors to be able to target themselves. I've only experienced it IRL, though.
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Well, or is this typical of McG?
In newbie mafia he didn't use his PR the first few nights.
I don't know if there's a nice way to say this, but he seems sort of likely to mess up a claim, fake or real. Sort of like me!
Blahhh okay. Well that's bad, but good for him here, but also bad for us.
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From the wiki:
A Doctor is a role that targets a player at Night to protect that player from a single kill made during that Night. They are not told if their protection was successful. Protection from a single kill means that if multiple players try to kill someone, they will not be saved by one Doctor's protection.
Doctors are usually not allowed to self-target.
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Well, or is this typical of McG?
In newbie mafia he didn't use his PR the first few nights.
I don't know if there's a nice way to say this, but he seems sort of likely to mess up a claim, fake or real. Sort of like me!
Blahhh okay. Well that's bad, but good for him here, but also bad for us.
And what I just said makes no sense. I mean it supports his claim, which is good, but also bad in that I don't know what to do
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In IRL games I've played it's not uncommon for doctors to be able to target themselves. I've only experienced it IRL, though.
Yeah, that is true
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I can say with close to 100% accuracy that there is scum in Jake and McGraphingpaper
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Eevee, do you think there's only two mafia?
Probably three? I'd work from that assumption unless we get a reason to assume a SK.
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Of course I suppose he could have just had this idea about what the doctor does, and since he didn't actually get a doctor role PM, he got it wrong
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Eevee, do you think there's only two mafia?
Probably three? I'd work from that assumption unless we get a reason to assume a SK.
Yay, Eevert is here! What should we do?
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I want to rage vote Calamitas for assigning nonsense statistics to all of this, but it's too late for any other wagons I think.
This is not nonsense statistic.
I liked trying to work with numbers to get a feel for the likelihood. The problem of course is that everyone is going to have their own idea of the different probabilities pertaining to
the problem.
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Of course I suppose he could have just had this idea about what the doctor does, and since he didn't actually get a doctor role PM, he got it wrong
Well yeah, this is the most likely thing if he's scum.
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In the doctors role setup it says you can't target yourself so i know McG is lying
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In the doctors role setup it says you can't target yourself so i know McG is lying
Thanks?
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In the doctors role setup it says you can't target yourself so i know McG is lying
well by setup I mean like the Pm you get at the start
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In the doctors role setup it says you can't target yourself so i know McG is lying
well by setup I mean like the Pm you get at the start
So you are a doctor and a cop?
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In the doctors role setup it says you can't target yourself so i know McG is lying
well by setup I mean like the Pm you get at the start
Yeah...how do you know?
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Omg, got the doctor claim now, what is going on??
Does McG not knowing that make his claim more likely to be false?
I think having a Cop and a Doctor in this setup makes one of the claims likely to be false.
Definitely this.
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In the doctors role setup it says you can't target yourself so i know McG is lying
well by setup I mean like the Pm you get at the start
So you are a doctor and a cop?
cop but i looked at other games with doctors and you are never able to target yourself and it usually says that i the setup/Pm you get
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Eevee agrees with me <3
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Btw we have under 2 hours to lynch someone
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In the doctors role setup it says you can't target yourself so i know McG is lying
How can you possibly know this?
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I don't know what I think. I mean, we have to lynch Jake or McG. Both have extremely suspicious claims.
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Unless Jake is ninja. Jake are you a ninja cop? That's like the only way that a doctor and a cop could exist together.
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Everybody should let Jake answer
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May not be true what i said but I have never seen a doctor be not told that they can't target themselves and I'm not a ninja
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Eh it was worth a shot
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I think McGarnacle has been scummier so he seems more likely to be scum to me.
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In the doctors role setup it says you can't target yourself so i know McG is lying
well by setup I mean like the Pm you get at the start
Yeah...how do you know?
I can't quote my PM, can I?
It doesn't mention you not being able to target yourself. Every time I've played IRL, the doctor was able to save himself, that's why.
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You cannot quote your Pm. Don't try.
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Can you confirm that your PM doesn't mention anything about your ability to target yourself or lack of it?
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Doctor is such an awesome role to draw, especially for a newer player who doesn't maybe realize how short their lives can be, seems really scummy to not realize you couldnt target yourself.
Definitely no time for a third party candidate in this situation anymore, just got to pick the better risk-reward of these two. Also if we assume one but not both are scum (seems pretty safe?), it's going to be so beneficial to analyze the wagons. Hitting scum after all this would be such a jackpot.
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You cannot quote your Pm. Don't try.
Can I mention what is says or paraphrase?
vote: Calamitas Jake is NOT scum.
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Can you confirm that your PM doesn't mention anything about your ability to target yourself or lack of it?
I just found that it says you cannot target players of the same type, which is (for me) a treasure card. So I CANNOT target myself, I just didn't make the connection for some reason. The only way Jake could know is if his PM said something similar, in which case he IS the Cop and we should lynch Calamitas instead.
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Can you confirm that your PM doesn't mention anything about your ability to target yourself or lack of it?
I just found that it says you cannot target players of the same type, which is (for me) a treasure card. So I CANNOT target myself, I just didn't make the connection for some reason. The only way Jake could know is if his PM said something similar, in which case he IS the Cop and we should lynch Calamitas instead.
Unless of course scum get something similar. Again, I don't know. Never been scum b4.
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So yeah. I don't want to lynch McGuardian
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So yeah. I don't want to lynch McGuardian
But is Jake the Cop? Or is he referencing the mafia PM.
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This actually does explain how cop!Jake would know doc!McG can't self target.
Now I think they are both town
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Unvote
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So yeah. I don't want to lynch McGuardian
But is Jake the Cop? Or is he referencing the mafia PM.
Oh that's a good point, the mafia could have PR that works like that.
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Ok wow that was a lot does anyone have any other lynch prospects but still want to lynch McG but now not sure
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Ok wow that was a lot does anyone have any other lynch prospects but still want to lynch McG but now not sure
How could you still want to lynch McG after explaining why his role PM error makes sense for town?
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Ok wow that was a lot does anyone have any other lynch prospects but still want to lynch McG but now not sure
vote: Calamitas
Wow, this game is insane.
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Ok wow that was a lot does anyone have any other lynch prospects but still want to lynch McG but now not sure
How could you still want to lynch McG after explaining why his role PM error makes sense for town?
Not sure will unvotefor now
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Ok wow that was a lot does anyone have any other lynch prospects but still want to lynch McG but now not sure
How could you still want to lynch McG after explaining why his role PM error makes sense for town?
Because it was a flaky screw-up.
Town, unite and lynch Calamitas!
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I could get behind a calm lynch but can someone put a case up on him
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I could get behind a calm lynch but can someone put a case up on him
Why don't you reread him?
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Think I missed something. Why are we thinking both are town now?
Really seems unlikely we'd have a doctor and a cop.. let alone that we'd manage to get both to claim day 1.
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I can't be around reliably for the next hour and a half. Very worried we are careening toward No Lynch. Are there even enough people around to lynch someone other than Jake or McG?
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I could get behind a calm lynch but can someone put a case up on him
Well, mainly him attacking me, maybe it's just OMGUS. But I've sorta been suspicious of him from square one.
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Vote Count 1.8
JakeTheBaseballGod22 (3): Robz888, Eevee, IDontPlayThisGame
McGarnacle (4): SpaceAnemone, Calamitas, GKrieg13, Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (1): pingpongsam
Calamitas (1): McGarnacle
Not Voting (3): Roadrunner7671, Lekkit, JakeTheBaseballGod22
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday Nov 20 at 1 pm, which is 1.5 hours from now.
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Oh yeah we got plenty of time.
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I could get behind a calm lynch but can someone put a case up on him
Why don't you reread him?
I get that the numbers thing was scummy but is there anything else on him
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I could get behind a calm lynch but can someone put a case up on him
Why don't you reread him?
I get that the numbers thing was scummy but is there anything else on him
His asking for your flavor name.
I can't be around reliably for the next hour and a half. Very worried we are careening toward No Lynch. Are there even enough people around to lynch someone other than Jake or McG?
I've got to go in 15 minutes. We have 9 people here. We can lynch Calamitas.
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But I'm not sure I really want to lynch Calamitas.
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I can't be around reliably for the next hour and a half. Very worried we are careening toward No Lynch. Are there even enough people around to lynch someone other than Jake or McG?
I think we definitely, definitely need to lynch someone. I'm around to vote until the deadline.
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But I'm not sure I really want to lynch Calamitas.
Do you prefer a no lynch?
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Ok I can lynch calm over a no lynch Vote: Calamitas
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I need to know what RR and Eevee want to do.
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I'm fine with Jake or Calamitas now. Cop and doctor are still scummy together.
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I'm around till the deadline
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But I'm not sure I really want to lynch Calamitas.
Do you prefer a no lynch?
Of course not but we could just lynch you.
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vote: Jake
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Actually vote: Calamitas
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How does this:
Ok wow that was a lot does anyone have any other lynch prospects but still want to lynch McG but now not sure
How could you still want to lynch McG after explaining why his role PM error makes sense for town?
And this:
But I'm not sure I really want to lynch Calamitas.
Do you prefer a no lynch?
Of course not but we could just lynch you.
Line up?
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vote: Jake
The only thing I don't understand is why scum!jake would help get town!mcg off the hook.
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Seems no other lynch is going to happen? Will be around till deadline to self-vote if necessarily.
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vote: Jake
The only thing I don't understand is why scum!jake would help get town!mcg off the hook.
Because he's not scum.
We have 3 votes of Calamitas.
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How does this:
Ok wow that was a lot does anyone have any other lynch prospects but still want to lynch McG but now not sure
How could you still want to lynch McG after explaining why his role PM error makes sense for town?
And this:
But I'm not sure I really want to lynch Calamitas.
Do you prefer a no lynch?
Of course not but we could just lynch you.
Line up?
I mean, it doesn't, but I don't know whether there are enough people to vote for someone other than you.
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Scum!Jake wasn't trying to get town McGlasses off the hook. Jake, regardless of alignment, thought McGiant would get lynched. I did too. But then he recovered nicely.
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vote: Jake
The only thing I don't understand is why scum!jake would help get town!mcg off the hook.
That's kind of where I am too
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How does this:
Ok wow that was a lot does anyone have any other lynch prospects but still want to lynch McG but now not sure
How could you still want to lynch McG after explaining why his role PM error makes sense for town?
And this:
But I'm not sure I really want to lynch Calamitas.
Do you prefer a no lynch?
Of course not but we could just lynch you.
Line up?
I mean, it doesn't, but I don't know whether there are enough people to vote for someone other than you.
We have 8 people viewing this topic and 3 votes on Calamitas already.
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Acutaly unvote Calm wouldn't self vote as scum
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I would prefer a Calamitas lynch.
Vote: Calamitas
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Seems no other lynch is going to happen? Will be around till deadline to self-vote if necessarily.
You should definitely claim. If you're a PR we can't run your wagon up.
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Acutaly unvote Calm wouldn't self vote as scum
Did he self vote?
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Acutaly unvote Calm wouldn't self vote as scum
C'mon man!!! We need to lynch someone. If you vote, we have 4 on him.
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vote: Jake
The only thing I don't understand is why scum!jake would help get town!mcg off the hook.
That's kind of where I am too
He still said he wanted to lynch McG right after that so I guess it makes no sense regardless
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Can you confirm that your PM doesn't mention anything about your ability to target yourself or lack of it?
I just found that it says you cannot target players of the same type, which is (for me) a treasure card. So I CANNOT target myself, I just didn't make the connection for some reason. The only way Jake could know is if his PM said something similar, in which case he IS the Cop and we should lynch Calamitas instead.
This is NOT an explanation of his slip it is just him saying "I missread it" and adding some concept how his power works. Don't see why you townread him for that.
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Acutaly unvote Calm wouldn't self vote as scum
Did he self vote?
He said he might.
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I would probably prefer a Jake lynch actually. But will settle for either. vote: Jake
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I would lynch one of the claims. Seems too crazy both could ever be true, and if town has one of those roles, mafia is likely to have something no negate them as well.
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Seems no other lynch is going to happen? Will be around till deadline to self-vote if necessarily.
You should definitely claim. If you're a PR we can't run your wagon up.
I'm a VT, otherwise I wouldn't consider self-voting over no-lynch.
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I would probably prefer a Jake lynch actually. But will settle for either. vote: Jake
At this point, I will vote for anyone, but I need to go in like 3 minutes.
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I would probably prefer a Jake lynch actually. But will settle for either. vote: Jake
At this point, I will vote for anyone, but I need to go in like 3 minutes.
Me too. Jake or calm?
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I would probably prefer a Jake lynch actually. But will settle for either. vote: Jake
At this point, I will vote for anyone, but I need to go in like 3 minutes.
Me too. Jake or calm?
McG!
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I say jake! Cal does not seem like scum
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Seems no other lynch is going to happen? Will be around till deadline to self-vote if necessarily.
You should definitely claim. If you're a PR we can't run your wagon up.
I'm a VT, otherwise I wouldn't consider self-voting over no-lynch.
Self voting as a VT is always bad. It kills wagon analysis
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I would probably prefer a Jake lynch actually. But will settle for either. vote: Jake
At this point, I will vote for anyone, but I need to go in like 3 minutes.
Me too. Jake or calm?
Calm
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Jake
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Seems no other lynch is going to happen? Will be around till deadline to self-vote if necessarily.
You should definitely claim. If you're a PR we can't run your wagon up.
I'm a VT, otherwise I wouldn't consider self-voting over no-lynch.
Self voting as a VT is always bad. It kills wagon analysis
It doesn't.
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Yeah it's between Jake and Calamitas.
I'd go...Jake, but I'm really not sure/confident
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I will note that he didn't actually self vote. Calm only said he would.
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Jake
Okay, I need to go.
vote: Jake
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Vote: McGarnacle calm may have done some scummy things but he is playing like town calm so I'm back to my McGarncale lynch which his explaintions gave me doubts but is mega targeting of anyone besides him to lynch is a scum tell for me
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Seems no other lynch is going to happen? Will be around till deadline to self-vote if necessarily.
You should definitely claim. If you're a PR we can't run your wagon up.
I'm a VT, otherwise I wouldn't consider self-voting over no-lynch.
Self voting as a VT is always bad. It kills wagon analysis
It doesn't.
Yes it does. If you're like 'go ahead and lynch me guys, I don't really care,' then anyone can hop on your wagon with no consequence.
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Vote: McGarnacle calm may have done some scummy things but he is playing like town calm so I'm back to my McGarncale lynch which his explaintions gave me doubts but is mega targeting of anyone besides him to lynch is a scum tell for me
That's a really bad vote. Don't lynch our doctor man.
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Vote: McGarnacle calm may have done some scummy things but he is playing like town calm so I'm back to my McGarncale lynch which his explaintions gave me doubts but is mega targeting of anyone besides him to lynch is a scum tell for me
Dude the only reason we are not lynching McG is because you have a great reason not to
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I feel like RR is scum from all this
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Vote: McGarnacle calm may have done some scummy things but he is playing like town calm so I'm back to my McGarncale lynch which his explaintions gave me doubts but is mega targeting of anyone besides him to lynch is a scum tell for me
Dude the only reason we are not lynching McG is because you have a great reason not to
You gave*****
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I feel like RR is scum from all this
WHAT? HAVE YOU EVER, EVER, EVER SEEN ME AS SCUM?
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I feel like RR is scum from all this
Yeah but I would need more evidence before I vote him
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I am staying on Jake, I guess.
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What Jake did makes no sense regardless of his alignment.
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It is not "I don't really care". It is "I prefer to get lynched over no-lynch". Any other lynch is obviously still prefered by me. Anyone who drives my wagon and forces me thereby still faces the same consequences.
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What Jake did makes no sense regardless of his alignment.
Jake makes no sense.
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I feel like RR is scum from all this
WHAT? HAVE YOU EVER, EVER, EVER SEEN ME AS SCUM?
I'll talk about this later. Let's lynch Jake
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It is not "I don't really care". It is "I prefer to get lynched over no-lynch". Any other lynch is obviously still prefered by me. Anyone who drives my wagon and forces me thereby still faces the same consequences.
If you think you can't contribute to town beyond getting lynched and letting us analyze your wagon (which doesn't really happen that much) then go for it. But if you feel like you have more stuff you can do and contribute, you fight your lynch like frickin Muhammad Ali.
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Rr really seems different from what I remembered him to be like, but I guess someone his age is bound to evolve (tsk) more than others.
I've been really impressed with him, a lot of analysis I was thinking myself but couldn't have worded so clearly.
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I feel like RR is scum from all this
WHAT? HAVE YOU EVER, EVER, EVER SEEN ME AS SCUM?
I'll talk about this later. Let's lynch Jake
No, we're not talking about this later. This game has had too much stuff happen for you to waste time trying to get a RR wagon going.
You're townreading me and that's that. I'm not doing this every single game.
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Ok well it's apparent I'm going to get lynched so I'm going to give my scum reads
My first is McG. I think I've clearly explained why
My second is RR. I think Big G can explain so I will let him.
My Third is ether Robz, Lek, or Dylan because there is probably a vet scum (the first two) and third Dylan has been major lurking
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I feel like RR is scum from all this
WHAT? HAVE YOU EVER, EVER, EVER SEEN ME AS SCUM?
I'll talk about this later. Let's lynch Jake
Hear, hear.
Guys, Jake flipping scum sort almost clears RR, PPS, (Robz). His actions most match someone who is mafia.
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and BTW I'm very sick of getting lynched D-1 or D-2 (have never made it passed D-2)
-
RR and lekkit should vote Jake before the deadline.
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RR and lekkit should vote Jake before the deadline.
We'll see. I'll be around until the deadline.
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Deadline is in three minutes and it is plurality lynch today anyway
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Deadline is in three minutes and it is plurality lynch today anyway
Never mind. The forum changed my time settings.
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Let me try and logic myself to a Jake lynch.
In the beginning, he acted scummy. Then he had a scummy claim. He was a little towny with his McGouda cases but then McGlee was determined to be town, so that's not good for Jake. Then he continued to be scummy up to this moment.
-
Deadline is in three minutes and it is plurality lynch today anyway
Oh, we have plurality lynch O.o
Great!
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Take my advice for tommorw town RR ad McG are scum. Theirs no doubt in my mind
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Take my advice for tommorw town RR ad McG are scum. Theirs no doubt in my mind
I'm 100% sure you're wrong with one of those and I'm like 90% sure you're wrong with another.
But if Jake flips scum, I'll consider myself 100% cleared because of this post. So I think I will vote Jake at some point.
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Take my advice for tommorw town RR ad McG are scum. Theirs no doubt in my mind
I'm 100% sure you're wrong with one of those and I'm like 90% sure you're wrong with another.
But if Jake flips scum, I'll consider myself 100% cleared because of this post. So I think I will vote Jake at some point.
Here you can hammer me Vote: Jake
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Jake: Why would you do this if you are town? It is not beneficial towards your win condition.
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Take my advice for tommorw town RR ad McG are scum. Theirs no doubt in my mind
Again, how is this possible??? You single handedly de-escalated the McG lynch.
Thrm both being scum, as impossible as that it seems, is like the only thing that makes sense
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Jake: Why would you do this if you are town? It is not beneficial towards your win condition.
Because either you vote me (hammer me) and when I flip town you or your partner McG die or theirs a no lynch which I'm finewith
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Jake, there will be a lynch by the deadline. Vote for who you think is scum.
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Take my advice for tommorw town RR ad McG are scum. Theirs no doubt in my mind
Again, how is this possible??? You single handedly de-escalated the McG lynch.
Thrm both being scum, as impossible as that it seems, is like the only thing that makes sense
He put doubt in my mind but I never said anything after until you guys deiced not to kill him and his actions after confirmed that he was scum to me
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Jake, there will be a lynch by the deadline. Vote for who you think is scum.
Ok Vote: RoadRunner
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Vote: Jake
I'm done walking on eggshells
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Vote: Jake
I'm done walking on eggshells
And their it is folks
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You could hammer yourself and make a statement!
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You could hammer yourself and make a statement!
Wouldn't you love that. That way I'm killing myself instead of you killing me
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Um is someone going to hammer?
-
Um is someone going to hammer?
I was hoping Jake would
-
Um is someone going to hammer?
I was hoping Jake would
Why? Neither town nor scum jake should hammer in that situation.
-
Um is someone going to hammer?
I was hoping Jake would
Why? Neither town nor scum jake should hammer in that situation.
Shh! He might not know that!
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Um is someone going to hammer?
I was hoping Jake would
Why? Neither town nor scum jake should hammer in that situation.
Shh! He might not know that!
I do
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Um is someone going to hammer?
I was hoping Jake would
Why? Neither town nor scum jake should hammer in that situation.
That's true but town all of us should want him to anyway. Ahem, lekkit
-
Vote count? Is there someone to hammer Jake?
-
This is really awkward because we know someone will come and hammer Jake but until then we just have to wait around awkwardly.
So Jake...uh...do you play any sports?
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Shoot.. I'm barely here and going to be side-tracked at the deadline. Can someone who hasn't got a major wagon sum things up for me? Really sorry!!!
-
This is really awkward because we know someone will come and hammer Jake but until then we just have to wait around awkwardly.
So Jake...uh...do you play any sports?
Oh how did you know
-
Vote count? Is there someone to hammer Jake?
Doesn't matter, there is plurality lynch.
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Shoot.. I'm barely here and going to be side-tracked at the deadline. Can someone who hasn't got a major wagon sum things up for me? Really sorry!!!
We are lynching Jake and that's literally it. McGarnacle is a doctor.
-
I prefer not to lynch Jake. He will be lynched if we reach the deadline, though. Assuming he has the most votes.
-
This is really awkward because we know someone will come and hammer Jake but until then we just have to wait around awkwardly.
So Jake...uh...do you play any sports?
Oh how did you know
Just a guess
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This is really awkward because we know someone will come and hammer Jake but until then we just have to wait around awkwardly.
So Jake...uh...do you play any sports?
Oh how did you know
Just a guess
How intuntive :P
-
Have you done the math homework yet?
-
Have you done the math homework yet?
I finished what we did on Friday and the practice but not the 4.4 hbu
-
Woah, sorry guys. I had NO IDEA about the plurality lynch thing, don't think I've ever played with that. And actually might have handled this much differently had I been aware. That's my screw up, really sorry.
-
Have you done the math homework yet?
I finished what we did on Friday and the practice but not the 4.4 hbu
I've been doing it as we've been lynching you.
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Have you done the math homework yet?
I finished what we did on Friday and the practice but not the 4.4 hbu
I've been doing it as we've been lynching you.
Wow thanks
-
Woah, sorry guys. I had NO IDEA about the plurality lynch thing, don't think I've ever played with that. And actually might have handled this much differently had I been aware. That's my screw up, really sorry.
How would you have handled this differently?
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Have you done the math homework yet?
I finished what we did on Friday and the practice but not the 4.4 hbu
I've been doing it as we've been lynching you.
Wow thanks
This kind of chatter is seriously unhelpful if people who're mega-short on time need to catch up ahead of the deadline!
-
I prefer not to lynch Jake. He will be lynched if we reach the deadline, though. Assuming he has the most votes.
What's your feeling on McGarnacle?
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Have you done the math homework yet?
I finished what we did on Friday and the practice but not the 4.4 hbu
I've been doing it as we've been lynching you.
Wow thanks
This kind of chatter is seriously unhelpful if people who're mega-short on time need to catch up ahead of the deadline!
-
I prefer not to lynch Jake. He will be lynched if we reach the deadline, though. Assuming he has the most votes.
What's your feeling on McGarnacle?
And along those same lines, what are the other options if I need to move?
Sorry for abrupt questions... I've got three guests in my house and I'm just dipping into the forum when I come through to the kitchen to cook :-P
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Woah, sorry guys. I had NO IDEA about the plurality lynch thing, don't think I've ever played with that. And actually might have handled this much differently had I been aware. That's my screw up, really sorry.
How would you have handled this differently?
I thought we needed 7 to lynch, which limited us to the people with some traction: jake, McG, and calamitas
-
I prefer not to lynch Jake. He will be lynched if we reach the deadline, though. Assuming he has the most votes.
What's your feeling on McGarnacle?
And along those same lines, what are the other options if I need to move?
Sorry for abrupt questions... I've got three guests in my house and I'm just dipping into the forum when I come through to the kitchen to cook :-P
I would have said hammer jake, but apparently it doesn't matter
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I prefer not to lynch Jake. He will be lynched if we reach the deadline, though. Assuming he has the most votes.
What's your feeling on McGarnacle?
I think they're both likely to be town.
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I prefer not to lynch Jake. He will be lynched if we reach the deadline, though. Assuming he has the most votes.
What's your feeling on McGarnacle?
I think they're both likely to be town.
I sort of feel like Lekkit swooped in here at the last minute to cast doubt on the lynch possibilities without doing anything to help.
-
How about RR as A lynch?
-
How about RR as A lynch?
Not interested
-
How about RR as A lynch?
Not interested
You should be
-
Btw this is a awful lynch because it's exactly what the scum wants. They don't have to take me out you do it for them
-
I prefer not to lynch Jake. He will be lynched if we reach the deadline, though. Assuming he has the most votes.
What's your feeling on McGarnacle?
I think they're both likely to be town.
I sort of feel like Lekkit swooped in here at the last minute to cast doubt on the lynch possibilities without doing anything to help.
I specifically asked him because I liked his positions earlier in the game and he seems towny.
-
I prefer not to lynch Jake. He will be lynched if we reach the deadline, though. Assuming he has the most votes.
What's your feeling on McGarnacle?
I think they're both likely to be town.
I sort of feel like Lekkit swooped in here at the last minute to cast doubt on the lynch possibilities without doing anything to help.
I specifically asked him because I liked his positions earlier in the game and he seems towny.
I think that he is major scum
-
Btw this is a awful lynch because it's exactly what the scum wants. They don't have to take me out you do it for them
If you are a mislynch, that applies to all mislynches.
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Btw this is a awful lynch because it's exactly what the scum wants. They don't have to take me out you do it for them
If it's an awful lynch you contributed to it more than anyone else. You took McG out of the running, which doesn't make any sense given your consistent scum read on McG
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Btw this is a awful lynch because it's exactly what the scum wants. They don't have to take me out you do it for them
If you are a mislynch, that applies to all mislynches.
Yeah but your killing the cop and the scum (RR,McG,Robz) are leading the charge and no one can see
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Btw this is a awful lynch because it's exactly what the scum wants. They don't have to take me out you do it for them
If it's an awful lynch you contributed to it more than anyone else. You took McG out of the running, which doesn't make any sense given your consistent scum read on McG
you do realize that I didn't talk until after you lead a charge saying he was town
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Btw this is a awful lynch because it's exactly what the scum wants. They don't have to take me out you do it for them
If you are a mislynch, that applies to all mislynches.
Yeah but your killing the cop and the scum (RR,McG,Robz) are leading the charge and no one can see
You literally cleared McGauntlet. He is not scum.
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Btw this is a awful lynch because it's exactly what the scum wants. They don't have to take me out you do it for them
If you are a mislynch, that applies to all mislynches.
Yeah but your killing the cop and the scum (RR,McG,Robz) are leading the charge and no one can see
You literally cleared McGauntlet. He is not scum.
HE IS SCUMMMMM SO ARE YOU AND ROBZ
You guys lead the charge to clear him and i'm dead bye
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Ultra-Hasty Space-Count
JakeTheBaseballGod22 (6): Robz888, Eevee, IDontPlayThisGame, GKrieg13, McGarnacle, Roadrunner7671
McGarnacle (3): SpaceAnemone, Calamitas, Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (1): pingpongsam
Calamitas (1): Lekkit
RR (1): Jake
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I think your reads are only based off of how people interact with you instead of how they actually play.
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Not sure there's anything useful my vote does in this situation. Also not sure how strict LL is going to be about deadline time.
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I think your reads are only based off of how people interact with you instead of how they actually play.
Bro look at all my cases agianst you guys and none of them are based off my gut feeling
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I think your reads are only based off of how people interact with you instead of how they actually play.
Bro look at all my cases agianst you guys and none of them are based off my gut feeling
I didn't say gut feeling, did I?
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Not sure there's anything useful my vote does in this situation. Also not sure how strict LL is going to be about deadline time.
This is true, and also why I'm not a fan of plurality lynch, but it's my fault for not reading closely.
If Jake isn't scum, it will be terrible to lose the cop, but at least we will have lost a huge distraction.
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I think your reads are only based off of how people interact with you instead of how they actually play.
Bro look at all my cases agianst you guys and none of them are based off my gut feeling
I didn't say gut feeling, did I?
Interact with me fine still the same applys
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Not sure there's anything useful my vote does in this situation. Also not sure how strict LL is going to be about deadline time.
This is true, and also why I'm not a fan of plurality lynch, but it's my fault for not reading closely.
If Jake isn't scum, it will be terrible to lose the cop, but at least we will have lost a huge distraction.
I wasn't one when Scum werne't framing me as scum
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I think your reads are only based off of how people interact with you instead of how they actually play.
Bro look at all my cases agianst you guys and none of them are based off my gut feeling
His point is that you only scumread people who are actively pushing your case. The fact that all of the people you have scum reads on are on your wagon makes no sense. Clearly not all of the scum want to be on your wagon, especially if the other wagons (Calamitas, and McGarnacle) are also town. So your scum team can't possibly be the real scum team.
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I think your reads are only based off of how people interact with you instead of how they actually play.
Bro look at all my cases agianst you guys and none of them are based off my gut feeling
I didn't say gut feeling, did I?
Interact with me fine still the same applys
No it doesn't. If I'm being all nice to you, I get read as town. If I think you're scum, all of a sudden I become scum. That's really not an effective way to read people.
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Not true at all but whateves
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I'm awarding huge town points to RR for being here the whole time
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And I guarantee that McG and RR are scum no matter what even if you people don't believe me i know I'm right
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I'm awarding huge town points to RR for being here the whole time
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate this, but that really doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't I be here as scum?
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I'm awarding huge town points to RR for being here the whole time
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate this, but that really doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't I be here as scum?
RR is the kind of person that likes to be on the forums regardless. I really do think he is equally likely to do this as scum
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I'm awarding huge town points to RR for being here the whole time
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate this, but that really doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't I be here as scum?
RR is the kind of person that likes to be on the forums regardless. I really do think he is equally likely to do this as scum
The forum is a fun and happy place. It's probably my favorite corner in the Internet.
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I'm awarding huge town points to RR for being here the whole time
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate this, but that really doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't I be here as scum?
Well, it's a thing: scum wanting to avoid being part of the really difficult end of day decisions. Scum just want anmislynch to go through without having to do anything to engineer it. Obviously sometimes scum wants and needs to be around but early on this is less likely. I've found people who stick it out like you did are more often town.
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I think anytime scum is very active on the deadline, you can assume status quo wouldn't have helped the team.
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I mean, if it's true that RR is just always on regardless than yeah, my point is less relevant
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I didn't realize it's a plurality lynch either.
Don't know how that should change things.
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Vote Count Final
JakeTheBaseballGod22 (6): Robz888, Eevee, IDontPlayThisGame, GKrieg13, McGarnacle, Roadrunner7671
McGarnacle (3): SpaceAnemone, Calamitas, Dylan32,
SpaceAnemone (1): pingpongsam
Calamitas (1): Lekkit
Roadrunner (1): JakeTheBaseballGod22
Not Voting (0):
According to the rule 6 of the voting rules, player with most votes in the end of the day is lynched. With 12 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
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I'm really excited for this flip
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I'm really excited for this flip
I'm sure because you get one of the strongest Pr's out of the game
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Cards were running in circles pointing fingers at each other. Everyone tried to accuse their neighbours, words "Vote: X" were loud everywhere. Finally everything calmed down. When cards looked aroung trying to understand what's going on, they saw 6 of their friends who have torn one card apart. Coming closer they saw that this was JakeTheBaseballGod22. Being the Vineyard he could exactly tell what all the cards could do nights.
Jake has been lynched. He was the Vineyard, Victory Card and Vanilla Cop
Night 1 starts now and ends Tuesday, 22nd of November at 1 pm. Night actions deadline is up to one hour to the night end.
Thread locked.
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The night fell. The cards were sitting aroung the Bandit Camp trying to solve the puzzle. Where are the masters? Why does someone want to kill them? They could tell. Time went and one by one they were falling asleep. Only wise Ghost Ship was sitting there trying to read signs and understand who was the killer.
"So... Duchess, then Vineyard... What is similar about these cards? They're cheap? Yes, but is there anything else? Hmm..
...
...
...
I KNOW! I KNOW WHO'S THE KILLER! EVERYONE WAKE..."
A huge wave of water splashed on the table. There stood a cup.. which was fallen now. And Ghost Ship was literally sinking in a big puddle trying to show, to look at the killer, to save herself...
No. Everything was pointless. Ghost Ship died and everyone felt terrified and confused.
Dark Ages came to the Big Table.
Calamitas has died! He was Ghost Ship, the Vanilla Townie and an Action Card
Day 2 begins now and ends in 7 days, Tuesday Nov 29, 3 pm
Thread Unlocked
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Vote Count 2.0
Not Voting (10): Robz888, Eevee, IDontPlayThisGame, GKrieg13, McGarnacle, Roadrunner7671, SpaceAnemone, Dylan32, pingpongsam, Lekkit
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
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Wow. Okay. I had no idea any of this would happen. I was going to suggest killing Calm today. Man, I suck at reading people.
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Who did you doctor?
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Totally expected McGrimace to be dead this morning. Why would scum not take out the claimed Doctor after we flat out mislynched the actual Cop?
One thought is redirection (which is typically a scum role, no?).
The other thought is the WIFOM of getting us to mislynch him ourselves ala Jake?
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Also, Dylan, I'm curious about what you have to say about last night...
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Didn't Calamitas claim VT?
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Didn't Calamitas claim VT?
OK, am an indiot, didn't realize one could be an Action card and VT with a card flavor name and all.
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Didn't Calamitas claim VT?
OK, am an indiot, didn't realize one could be an Action card and VT with a card flavor name and all.
vote: PPS
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If Jake would've claimed his actual role he'd still be alive
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Didn't Calamitas claim VT?
OK, am an indiot, didn't realize one could be an Action card and VT with a card flavor name and all.
vote: PPS
I would understand voting me for pushing Jake yesterday but this is apparently for reading a long line of text that started with Ghost Ship and ended with Action Card and thinking Calamitas was a PR. I publicly questioned his claim thinking he must have lied on his claim and then went back and reread the flip and understood. You think I do this as scum or, even if so, that it somehow indicates I am scum? I mean, as scum I would have been more acutely aware of the flip and quite disappointed I am sure.
Please explain how this is vote worthy.
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Who did you doctor?
RR
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I'm guessing that Clamitas' fishing for flavor was a PR tell to scum. I'd be worried about a vig maybe? I'm looking for a reason to believe McGnashingofteeth, here.
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I'm guessing that Clamitas' fishing for flavor was a PR tell to scum. I'd be worried about a vig maybe? I'm looking for a reason to believe McGnashingofteeth, here.
If you kill me, town is in a bad way. Loosing two PR's and a VT is bad.
Going to be on a plane today, so I won't be very active. I'm thinking nothing profound will happen right away.
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I'm guessing that Clamitas' fishing for flavor was a PR tell to scum. I'd be worried about a vig maybe? I'm looking for a reason to believe McGnashingofteeth, here.
If you kill me, town is in a bad way. Loosing two PR's and a VT is bad.
Going to be on a plane today, so I won't be very active. I'm thinking nothing profound will happen right away.
Ooga booga is a bad reason. An explanation for why scum didn't kill McGeezus is what I'm looking for.
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BTW, I had unexpected personal stuff come up at deadline. I was swayed off Jake way earlier than that, though. I would have pushed for McGillicuddy or SA had I been there.
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Who did you doctor?
RR
How did he have any chance to be killed? Like any?
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Didn't Calamitas claim VT?
OK, am an indiot, didn't realize one could be an Action card and VT with a card flavor name and all.
vote: PPS
I would understand voting me for pushing Jake yesterday but this is apparently for reading a long line of text that started with Ghost Ship and ended with Action Card and thinking Calamitas was a PR. I publicly questioned his claim thinking he must have lied on his claim and then went back and reread the flip and understood. You think I do this as scum or, even if so, that it somehow indicates I am scum? I mean, as scum I would have been more acutely aware of the flip and quite disappointed I am sure.
Please explain how this is vote worthy.
Well I would explain, but I think it should be obvious why I'm voting for you.
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Who did you doctor?
RR
How did he have any chance to be killed? Like any?
Yeah that was a weird doctor. I appreciate the 'jester' though!
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Didn't Calamitas claim VT?
OK, am an indiot, didn't realize one could be an Action card and VT with a card flavor name and all.
vote: PPS
I would understand voting me for pushing Jake yesterday but this is apparently for reading a long line of text that started with Ghost Ship and ended with Action Card and thinking Calamitas was a PR. I publicly questioned his claim thinking he must have lied on his claim and then went back and reread the flip and understood. You think I do this as scum or, even if so, that it somehow indicates I am scum? I mean, as scum I would have been more acutely aware of the flip and quite disappointed I am sure.
Please explain how this is vote worthy.
Well I would explain, but I think it should be obvious why I'm voting for you.
You may think so but I emphatically spelled out how it isn't clear at all.
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Didn't Calamitas claim VT?
OK, am an indiot, didn't realize one could be an Action card and VT with a card flavor name and all.
vote: PPS
I would understand voting me for pushing Jake yesterday but this is apparently for reading a long line of text that started with Ghost Ship and ended with Action Card and thinking Calamitas was a PR. I publicly questioned his claim thinking he must have lied on his claim and then went back and reread the flip and understood. You think I do this as scum or, even if so, that it somehow indicates I am scum? I mean, as scum I would have been more acutely aware of the flip and quite disappointed I am sure.
Please explain how this is vote worthy.
This doesn't even make much sense as a defence! Are you trying to argue that VTs can't have card types, or that VTs can't be action cards or what?
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So, the Doctor wasn't killed and he Doctored about the dumbest possible target. Meanwhile the claimed VT was killed.
Where in any of that is a reason to believe McGladwrap?
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Didn't Calamitas claim VT?
OK, am an indiot, didn't realize one could be an Action card and VT with a card flavor name and all.
vote: PPS
I would understand voting me for pushing Jake yesterday but this is apparently for reading a long line of text that started with Ghost Ship and ended with Action Card and thinking Calamitas was a PR. I publicly questioned his claim thinking he must have lied on his claim and then went back and reread the flip and understood. You think I do this as scum or, even if so, that it somehow indicates I am scum? I mean, as scum I would have been more acutely aware of the flip and quite disappointed I am sure.
Please explain how this is vote worthy.
This doesn't even make much sense as a defence! Are you trying to argue that VTs can't have card types, or that VTs can't be action cards or what?
Well, I'd start off by saying I didn't realize I was defending anything. I was asking Gkrieg to defend his vote. It was simply an innocuous misunderstanding of what Calamitas flipped as. But, yeah, I would not have expected a VT, who by definition can't do anything, to be an Action Card.
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Didn't Calamitas claim VT?
OK, am an indiot, didn't realize one could be an Action card and VT with a card flavor name and all.
vote: PPS
I would understand voting me for pushing Jake yesterday but this is apparently for reading a long line of text that started with Ghost Ship and ended with Action Card and thinking Calamitas was a PR. I publicly questioned his claim thinking he must have lied on his claim and then went back and reread the flip and understood. You think I do this as scum or, even if so, that it somehow indicates I am scum? I mean, as scum I would have been more acutely aware of the flip and quite disappointed I am sure.
Please explain how this is vote worthy.
This doesn't even make much sense as a defence! Are you trying to argue that VTs can't have card types, or that VTs can't be action cards or what?
You're saying my "defense" makes no sense when I'm saying the vote makes no sense. At all. Saying it is obvious doesn't make it so.
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OK, am an indiot, didn't realize one could be an Action card and VT with a card flavor name and all.
vote: PPS
I would understand voting me for pushing Jake yesterday but this is apparently for reading a long line of text that started with Ghost Ship and ended with Action Card and thinking Calamitas was a PR. I publicly questioned his claim thinking he must have lied on his claim and then went back and reread the flip and understood. You think I do this as scum or, even if so, that it somehow indicates I am scum? I mean, as scum I would have been more acutely aware of the flip and quite disappointed I am sure.
Please explain how this is vote worthy.
This doesn't even make much sense as a defence! Are you trying to argue that VTs can't have card types, or that VTs can't be action cards or what?
You're saying my "defense" makes no sense when I'm saying the vote makes no sense. At all. Saying it is obvious doesn't make it so.
It reads to me as straight-up scummy that you didn't realise that VTs have card types. I mean, Jake was a victory card, so clearly there are non-action PRs. I assume gkrieg took your comment in much the same way I did.
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It reads to me as straight-up scummy that you didn't realise that VTs have card types. I mean, Jake was a victory card, so clearly there are non-action PRs. I assume gkrieg took your comment in much the same way I did.
How is it scummy? explain the scum narrative. Right now your argument is that PPS doesn't get the setup so he must be scum when that is not at all alignment indicative (most especially for me).
In fact, you're ignoring everything else I'm doing which is insane considering the import of those things. You're literally grasping at straws.
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Until I get some reasonable answers to my currently posited concerns; Vote: McGarnacle
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I'm not sure it's scummy but I think PPS might've had a PR slip, which isn't good.
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I'm not sure it's scummy but I think PPS might've had a PR slip, which isn't good.
PR, or scum? He seemed to using my part in yesterday's McGarnacle wagon as an excuse to to call me scummy, but now he's actually voting McGarnacle. That's relevant because he PR count is kind of important in that the more likely McGarnacle is to be town, the more likely it looks that PPS's slip was scummy rather than towny.
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I am confused about everything. I am confused why McG lived, I am confused why PPS was confused, I am confused why it makes him scu or a PR. I am just confused.
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So after Jake's flip I really did think we were going to wake up to a dead doctor... um, I mean, I guess if McG is town maybe they left him alive for the WIFOM? But then why kill Calamitas, a claimed VT?
This is a really unorthodox move that I think points to a newbie scum team? Or one that includes McG. Or both.
I want to say this means McG is scum, but of course if he's not, scum left him alive for just this reason.
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BTW, I had unexpected personal stuff come up at deadline. I was swayed off Jake way earlier than that, though. I would have pushed for McGillicuddy or SA had I been there.
Fair enough, but had more people been there, yeah, we would have done something else--it was exactly because not enough people were around that we had little choice but to lynch Jake and hope. The fact that Jake personally gave us the best reason not to go with McG didn't help. (Also not helping: me not realizing about the plurality lynch rules.)
What's your case on SA?
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Who did you doctor?
RR
Why? And I shouldn't have to ask why.
That selection doesn't really make much sense to me. Don't know if that is actually a point against you or not, since wouldn't partners have helped McG come up with something more plausible? But I really don't want to get suckered here, if he's not acting like a doctor (picking a weird person, not getting killed in the night) we need to strongly consider the most obvious explanation.
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PPS being confused here makes very little sense. I do think it's more likely for scum to be confused about this than a PR.
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I am confused about everything. I am confused why McG lived, I am confused why PPS was confused, I am confused why it makes him scu or a PR. I am just confused.
PPS is confused because he famously hates reading set-ups, so he missed the giant purple text at the end of LL's first post that explains that we all get card types, since evidently he didn't get a VT role to read for himself... that's not all that complicated a conclusion!
PPE 3
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BTW, I had unexpected personal stuff come up at deadline. I was swayed off Jake way earlier than that, though. I would have pushed for McGillicuddy or SA had I been there.
Fair enough, but had more people been there, yeah, we would have done something else--it was exactly because not enough people were around that we had little choice but to lynch Jake and hope. The fact that Jake personally gave us the best reason not to go with McG didn't help. (Also not helping: me not realizing about the plurality lynch rules.)
What's your case on SA?
I didn't rightly have a case on SA. Seems an odd question considering I am voting McGlamorous. I voted SA yesterday strictly to draw fire off of Jake. My whole intent yesterday was to draw enough suspicion around Jake that maybe scum would spare him (esp if they had a RB) in the night. I didn't think we could actually get a mislynch through on a claimed cop. There was a point in the middle of it I thought he really was fakeclaiming but when that tide turned for me I was pretty clear about it by saying specifically that and voting elsewhere. The whole thing yesterday was unsubstantiated votes so I proved a point by making one of my own and drew zero fire for it which I thought was fascinating.
Right now I can't tell if SA is driving on me because they've seen me slip up as scum before and is excited that it has somehow happened again or if SA may actually be scum. My only read in that regard is I've seen scum!SA and it's a feeling more than anything. SA doesn't play any traditional scum meta that we are going to detect by conventional reads. That driving on a super flimsy idea I somehow slipped feels like a deflection from the analysis I'm making on McGrandpa. If McGasp is scum this could be partnering. Considering we overwhelmingly lynched our cop yesterday I'm not putting it past us to latch onto something this abstract and ignore the obvious WTF about last night's happenings.
Speaking of last night's happenings I'm still waiting to hear what Dylan thought about what happened last night.
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I am confused about everything. I am confused why McG lived, I am confused why PPS was confused, I am confused why it makes him scu or a PR. I am just confused.
PPS is confused because he famously hates reading set-ups, so he missed the giant purple text at the end of LL's first post that explains that we all get card types, since evidently he didn't get a VT role to read for himself... that's not all that complicated a conclusion!
PPE 3
And now I get it. Thank you. Okay, does sort of seem like a scum or PR slip.
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BTW, I had unexpected personal stuff come up at deadline. I was swayed off Jake way earlier than that, though. I would have pushed for McGillicuddy or SA had I been there.
Fair enough, but had more people been there, yeah, we would have done something else--it was exactly because not enough people were around that we had little choice but to lynch Jake and hope. The fact that Jake personally gave us the best reason not to go with McG didn't help. (Also not helping: me not realizing about the plurality lynch rules.)
What's your case on SA?
I didn't rightly have a case on SA. Seems an odd question considering I am voting McGlamorous. I voted SA yesterday strictly to draw fire off of Jake. My whole intent yesterday was to draw enough suspicion around Jake that maybe scum would spare him (esp if they had a RB) in the night. I didn't think we could actually get a mislynch through on a claimed cop. There was a point in the middle of it I thought he really was fakeclaiming but when that tide turned for me I was pretty clear about it by saying specifically that and voting elsewhere. The whole thing yesterday was unsubstantiated votes so I proved a point by making one of my own and drew zero fire for it which I thought was fascinating.
I kind of hate that you did this but I actually think I believe you.
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Really don't like that McG departed without giving us a reason.
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Yeah, I'm following SA's logic now.
I am a town PR and I am a Action card. I suppose it's better to put that out there than to exist under the obvious scum shadow that could create for me.
That's all I have to say about that. Even if you press me to L-1 I won't tell you what I am or what I did with it last night.
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Now that that's out there maybe Dylan understands why I'm calling him out specifically about last night.
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grumble grumble setups
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I believe PPS. Don't think scum would claim PR there with such little provocation. Not convinced town!PPS should have claimed, but it's done.
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Vote: McG until I hear something convincing from him about why the doc choice
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I believe PPS. Don't think scum would claim PR there with such little provocation. Not convinced town!PPS should have claimed, but it's done.
He'd outed himself as not-a-VT... if he's scum of course he's going to claim to be a PR!
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Or not claim at all.
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Ya let's follow the guy who is backed up by Robz, who led the charge against Jake and then is now trying to back out of it saying he would've done things differently. That seems like a good idea
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I think one of the people making least sense right now is Robz.
He was very quiet at the start of day 1. Jumped on the Jake wagon and after the claim pushed it super hard. Then a couple of weird set up misses. And now taking a very non-confrontational approach. At least he's going for the claimed doctor.
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Currently, I'd be fine with lynching either Robz or PPS, as I think they look the scummiest.
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Robz is the one person I am certain is town. That the early organization is for mine or his lynch instead of even thinking about what came about with McGastricbypass is unsettlingly scummy. Unsettling because I think there is more than scum doing it, especially if McGainacard is scum.
If it comes down to it, though we should mislynch me, I think.
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Currently, I'd be fine with lynching either Robz or PPS, as I think they look the scummiest.
Why do you believe McGatlinggun is the Doctor?
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Currently, I'd be fine with lynching either Robz or PPS, as I think they look the scummiest.
Why do you believe McGatlinggun is the Doctor?
Mainly Reply 666-672. Basically the type restrictions. I mean. It seems very convoluted to fake "not knowing doctors can't target themselves" evolving into "oh, I just misread how the setup works, it indirectly says here I can't target myself". It doesn't really seem like a reasonable plan that you come up with yourself during the day, or set up during night 0.
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Also, note how Jake, while still voting for McG after the claim didn't deny the type restrictions.
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Currently, I'd be fine with lynching either Robz or PPS, as I think they look the scummiest.
Why do you believe McGatlinggun is the Doctor?
Mainly Reply 666-672. Basically the type restrictions. I mean. It seems very convoluted to fake "not knowing doctors can't target themselves" evolving into "oh, I just misread how the setup works, it indirectly says here I can't target myself". It doesn't really seem like a reasonable plan that you come up with yourself during the day, or set up during night 0.
Okay, do you have any suggestions for why scum allowed him to live and instead targeted a claimed VT?
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Jake was a PR who would have been aware of the type restrictions, no?
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Okay, do you have any suggestions for why scum allowed him to live and instead targeted a claimed VT?
Yes. I don't think scum did it.
Jake was a PR who would have been aware of the type restrictions, no?
My point exactly.
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Okay, do you have any suggestions for why scum allowed him to live and instead targeted a claimed VT?
Yes. I don't think scum did it.
Jake was a PR who would have been aware of the type restrictions, no?
My point exactly.
I must be slow today. When I misread it I'm scum. Jake did understand it and he flipped town. But, McGabber misreads it and he is likely town too. This seems incongruent.
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One thing is for sure, this is damn near RMM.
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I get the feeling scum is high powered.
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I must be slow today. When I misread it I'm scum. Jake did understand it and he flipped town. But, McGabber misreads it and he is likely town too. This seems incongruent.
Jake understood the restriction. When McG understood one of the effects of the restriction, he came to realize Jake was telling the truth. However that didn't have to be the case since he could also be mafia, assuming there are mafia roles with powers. Regardless, Jake didn't deny the type restrictions, so I'm going to assume they are true. The way this came to light makes McG look more towny than scummy to me.
For the record, Jake did misread it as well.
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One thing is for sure, this is damn near RMM.
Assuming everyone is telling the truth, then we had at least 3 PRs. Something like Cop, Doctor and some X-shot role wouldn't be that crazy in a 12 player game, right?
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I am confused about everything. I am confused why McG lived, I am confused why PPS was confused, I am confused why it makes him scu or a PR. I am just confused.
My exact thoughts!!
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If McGhoul is a town Doctor and scum left him alive for a mislynch today why did they kill Calamitas? Of all targets the Claimed VT seems a poor choice when another PR might be out there and the claim makes him more likely to get Doctored.
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If McGhoul is a town Doctor and scum left him alive for a mislynch today why did they kill Calamitas? Of all targets the Claimed VT seems a poor choice when another PR might be out there and the claim makes him more likely to get Doctored.
Calamitas dying by scum hands makes no sense regardless. Even if McG is scum. Why would he kill Calamitas?
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Accidental double exclamation point, not really so excited about the situation:
If PPS and McG are both truthul, scum must have some very powerful abilities as well, or there has to be something weird going on with the setup? I'm not really seeing PPS doing what he did as scum, he was not under so much heat that he'd resort something like this yet, I think that the fact that PPS claim refers to a surprising setup makes it much less likely to come from mafia.
McG seems like the much scummier choice of the two. I think the deadline lynch was unfortunate, but it was a tough situation is so little time. Why calamitas was killed, I don't know. Again, wondering if there is some setup weirdness scum is more aware than us because they know all the roles they have.
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If McGhoul is a town Doctor and scum left him alive for a mislynch today why did they kill Calamitas? Of all targets the Claimed VT seems a poor choice when another PR might be out there and the claim makes him more likely to get Doctored.
Do you have any theory?
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This was weird and confusing and there's too much stuff going on and I don't like it.
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Okay, do you have any suggestions for why scum allowed him to live and instead targeted a claimed VT?
Yes. I don't think scum did it.
Jake was a PR who would have been aware of the type restrictions, no?
My point exactly.
You don't think scum killed calamitas?
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Why would they?
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Why would they?
This strongly suggests redirection. Now, I'm throwing this out there as food for though not an urging to actually do it because I've not thought it through myself.
If town enacted a redirect last night should they claim? If they claim who they targeted for redirection then there's a scum.
I think there is this other thing called lightning rod or something, tho. Basically the person I target soaks up the NK or other targeting actions. Have to research that one again. Don't think that should claim especially if they had other role powers, say 1 shot of 3 different powers or something.
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Vote: SA because I feel like they are scum. No case given cause if they are the never will be one.
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Really wasn't a myriad of roles like this.
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I don't think my night action was lightning rodded based on the wording of the result.
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I don't think my night action was lightning rodded based on the wording of the result.
I also don't think LR was used since Calamitas got killed.
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Wow. Read through the end of the day discussion that led to the Jake lynch the other day and really didn't like the way that went down, although maybe I just didn't like it because I was able to immediately see the results as I read it. I was a little bit surprised at his flip, but obviously calamitas's nk was a total shock! I can't put my finger on an exact reason, but I actually sort of still believe pps and his claim, although he is far from the IC he could have been if Jake had been scum. Everything in me wants to believe McDonalds is scum, but if I remember correctly, I think I said something to the effect that if McG survived, almost nothing could convince me he was town. I could see an experienced scum remembering that and banking on me (or someone else) driving a mislynch.
But the RR doctor claim just confuses me. With Jake flipping cop, RR is at best null to me, and certainly not towny enough to think scum would target them.
PPE3
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I'm guessing that Clamitas' fishing for flavor was a PR tell to scum. I'd be worried about a vig maybe? I'm looking for a reason to believe McGnashingofteeth, here.
I missed this the first time around. This seems very possible.
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On another note. McGarnacle, why did you target RR?
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So given how things have gone and all the claims that have already happened, would a mass claim possibly be advantageous? D2 seems early, but are 3 PRs normally claimed with 1 confirmed (and dead) at the beginning of D2?
Yeah, McG you need to explain that choice.
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I think a massclaim is bad.
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I think a massclaim is bad.
Me too for reasons.
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I vote no on massclaim as well.
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Lekkit's points about why he believes McG are well taken, but we have to weigh that against the possibility, at least, that his scum mates could have helped him set this up. If I was on a team with McG I might have told him to fakeclaim doctor and mangle the claim really badly in order to seem more plausible.
I just looked back at McG's claim and he comes right out with the self-targeting comment immediately in the post where he claims:
Shoot, I didn't want it to come to this. I'm the Doctor. Funny thing, now one of you guys is more likely to die tonight, because if I don't get lynched today, I'm pretty sure the scum will try to kill me at night, so I will use my PR to save myself instead of one of you.
In this universe, Jake being able to swoop in and confirm the card selectivity thing is a fortuitous, though possibly anticipated result, given there are presumably scums with PRs subject to the same limitations.
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Would the claim look more plausible had we not already had another PR claim confirming the restriction?
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While cop was a feasible last ditch fake claim to dream up I'm not so sure claiming Doctor ever comes up in N0 discussion. There was no counter to either claim. I'm coming around to believing McGhostbusters for the moment. I'm assuming there's a couple more scum to catch besides him anyhow.
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If Jake would've claimed his actual role he'd still be alive
Didn't he?
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Cmon Eevee, drop some gems on us. Right now I see you posting just to be seen posting. Time to pick a team.
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Would the claim look more plausible had we not already had another PR claim confirming the restriction?
The claim looks pretty plausible, that's not the issue. The biggest issue, actually, is surviving the night.
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If Jake would've claimed his actual role he'd still be alive
Didn't he?
He was a vanilla cop. The difference is actually pretty significant
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Wow. Lots going on. I doctored RR because I really had no idea who else to doctor, and RR was the only person who seemed super helpful but also seemed to me to be town. Robz would have been my second choice.
No idea why scum killed Calamitas.
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If Jake would've claimed his actual role he'd still be alive
Didn't he?
He was a vanilla cop. The difference is actually pretty significant
Wow, just noticed that. WHY???????
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Dylan, do you have any current reads other than you want to believe McG is scum?
IDPTG, Do you have any thoughts?
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Ok just popping my head in. I think scum killed Calamitas because they knew he wouldn't be protected and probably don't have strongman. If the doctor can only selectively target people I don't think you give scum strongman so a newb scum team would be more worried about a kill going through than about who it is.
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Vote Count 2.1
PingPongSam (1): GKrieg 13
McGarnacle (1): Robz888
SpaceAnemone (1): pingpongsam
Not Voting (7):Eevee, IDontPlayThisGame, McGarnacle, Roadrunner7671, SpaceAnemone, Dylan32, Lekkit
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. NOTE: The day ends on Tuesday Nov 29, 3 pm (I messed up with the deadline yesterday, this is the correct one.)
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Robz doesn't seem like himself today. I can't quite put my finger on it, but he is'nt as sure of himself and "leading the charge" as I'd expect.
I don't think we should lynch McG today, his claimed status should make him easier to read going forward, and if he is truthful the power role might even help us.
Think I need to reread the end of last day to get an idea of anyone else, don't really even remember who was voting were.
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Robz doesn't seem like himself today. I can't quite put my finger on it, but he is'nt as sure of himself and "leading the charge" as I'd expect.
I don't think we should lynch McG today, his claimed status should make him easier to read going forward, and if he is truthful the power role might even help us.
Think I need to reread the end of last day to get an idea of anyone else, don't really even remember who was voting were.
Exactly. Look at who flip-flopped back and forth to tried to get a no lynch. That might be too obvious, though.
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If Jake would've claimed his actual role he'd still be alive
Didn't he?
He was a vanilla cop. The difference is actually pretty significant
Yeah, I noticed that, but I wondered whether the name and his abilities might have had a bit of a mis-match, given that the flavour text just above his role flip said "Being the Vineyard he could exactly tell what all the cards could do nights".
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If Jake would've claimed his actual role he'd still be alive
Didn't he?
He was a vanilla cop. The difference is actually pretty significant
Yeah, I noticed that, but I wondered whether the name and his abilities might have had a bit of a mis-match, given that the flavour text just above his role flip said "Being the Vineyard he could exactly tell what all the cards could do nights".
That would be a Rolecop
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Currently, I'd be fine with lynching either Robz or PPS, as I think they look the scummiest.
Is this still true? I think I have a couple of proposals for things that might help test PPS a little, though nothing is too conclusive.
For one thing, he's clearly waiting for a comment from Dylan about something to do with his PR in N1. If there's a good town motive for that, it will look better, but Dylan doesn't seem to have commented on anything PPS has said.
As a second thing, if PPS has a PR, he's quite possibly got a similar description to McGarnacle's. If PPS claims his card-type-related restriction/relevance, and McGarnacle is able to verify that it's compatible with his understanding of how his own restriction/relevance works, then there's slightly stronger evidence for PPS being town. I suggest PPS full-claiming his (minus the part about what his actual role is) first, and then having McGarnacle follow up with his impression of anything he sees as scummy in what PPS says. I suggest that specific order for the same reason PPS is currently voting for me.
What do the rest of you think of that proposal? Obviously there are a couple of failure modes, but it's the closest thing I can find so far to an exploitable verification mechanism in this setup.
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Currently, I'd be fine with lynching either Robz or PPS, as I think they look the scummiest.
Is this still true? I think I have a couple of proposals for things that might help test PPS a little, though nothing is too conclusive.
For one thing, he's clearly waiting for a comment from Dylan about something to do with his PR in N1. If there's a good town motive for that, it will look better, but Dylan doesn't seem to have commented on anything PPS has said.
As a second thing, if PPS has a PR, he's quite possibly got a similar description to McGarnacle's. If PPS claims his card-type-related restriction/relevance, and McGarnacle is able to verify that it's compatible with his understanding of how his own restriction/relevance works, then there's slightly stronger evidence for PPS being town. I suggest PPS full-claiming his (minus the part about what his actual role is) first, and then having McGarnacle follow up with his impression of anything he sees as scummy in what PPS says. I suggest that specific order for the same reason PPS is currently voting for me.
What do the rest of you think of that proposal? Obviously there are a couple of failure modes, but it's the closest thing I can find so far to an exploitable verification mechanism in this setup.
I mean, I already believe PPS, so I'm not sure I want him to comply with this. I would like him to explain the Dylan thing, or at least, whether Dylan's lack of acknowledgment of his comment means anything.
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I am not revealing my card type. The reason for this is because my role description specifically says there are certain card types my power is ineffective on. I can only assume scum has similar restrictions and knowing who to use or not use their power on at night is not information I care to give them. This is exactly why I was suspicious of Calamitas (and am subsequently confused as to why he kept fishing for it as VT). It's also why I am hugely against mass claim.
I would like a formal statement from Dylan even if it's flat out denial or "yeah something happened but I am not saying what".
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Besides, anyone with half a brain knows my card type already.
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Besides, anyone with half a brain knows my card type already.
Yes, and I specifically wasn't asking for it! I suggested that we ask you for details of your restrictions relating to other card types, so we can see if you and our other PR claimant match. Think about why you're voting for me (if it's the reason I think you mean, and not just because you're scared of the possibility of me being scum), and think about what you should say about the restrictions in this situation.
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My power is ineffective on Cards that share my type.
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My power is ineffective on Cards that share my type.
Meh, that just matches what McGarnacle already said at #667... I was hoping there would be something more.
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Sorry for being inactive; I've got a lot of Thanksgiving stuff going on in the next few days and I'll try to post when I can.
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Currently, I'd be fine with lynching either Robz or PPS, as I think they look the scummiest.
Is this still true? I think I have a couple of proposals for things that might help test PPS a little, though nothing is too conclusive.
For one thing, he's clearly waiting for a comment from Dylan about something to do with his PR in N1. If there's a good town motive for that, it will look better, but Dylan doesn't seem to have commented on anything PPS has said.
As a second thing, if PPS has a PR, he's quite possibly got a similar description to McGarnacle's. If PPS claims his card-type-related restriction/relevance, and McGarnacle is able to verify that it's compatible with his understanding of how his own restriction/relevance works, then there's slightly stronger evidence for PPS being town. I suggest PPS full-claiming his (minus the part about what his actual role is) first, and then having McGarnacle follow up with his impression of anything he sees as scummy in what PPS says. I suggest that specific order for the same reason PPS is currently voting for me.
What do the rest of you think of that proposal? Obviously there are a couple of failure modes, but it's the closest thing I can find so far to an exploitable verification mechanism in this setup.
Quickly reading from phone, but this post seems VERY towny.
Also fine with the proposal, not really good with this setup assumption guesswork stuff though.
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Usually I thrive in the spotlight because I've engineered being there and it's on my terms. This PR slip thing has me there out of my terms and I've not figured out how to make it useful so bear with me. In the meantime feel free to scrutinize someone else.
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Sorry I've been pretty inactive so far D2. Like I said, I have been VLA since Saturday and just got home and back to a computer. Previous post was from my phone and I didn't have time to go back and look up a couple things from earlier in the thread that I needed to remember before I went more in depth. I have a couple things irl I have to take care of this evening, but then before I go to bed I'll respond to PPS and other stuff. I promise I wasn't ignoring it or wanting to lurk!
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Ok, I think I'm pretty much caught up. PPS, I'm actually not quite sure why you wanted a concrete statement from me about last night, but I can say for certain that I took no action that to my knowledge would have affected Calamitas. I will leave the question of whether or not I was even able to do an action open for now, because if I am not a PR, I don't want to make it easier for scum to find the PRs by process of elimination, and if I am a PR, I obviously don't want scum to know for sure.
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As far as I can tell, either A) McG lied and is scum, B) he told the truth and scum killed calm instead for WIFOM, or C) he told the truth, scum attacked him but the attack was redirected.
I really don't think it was possible to have the scum NK blocked and Calm taken out by either a town or scum PR. If McG is the doctor, the only ways Calm could have been killed by a PR would be if the scum NK was blocked. That would mean they either targeted McG and someone protected him, or they targeted RR and McG's protection stopped it. As has been established, RR would have been a very random target at best, so that possibility seems pretty unlikely. Next, there would have to be 2 protective town PRs for McG to be protected. If somehow town has 2 protective roles like doctor and a jailkeeper or something, I would bet they would not be allowed to protect each other, maybe by being the same card type, which sounds like a common restriction in this setup. So the odds McG was protected seems slim at best.
For this reason, I think Calamitas was killed by scum either directly or by a redirection, not by a PR.
(and if McG actually did successfully protect RR, that has to be one of the luckiest random saves ever!)
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Ok, I think I'm pretty much caught up. PPS, I'm actually not quite sure why you wanted a concrete statement from me about last night, but I can say for certain that I took no action that to my knowledge would have affected Calamitas. I will leave the question of whether or not I was even able to do an action open for now, because if I am not a PR, I don't want to make it easier for scum to find the PRs by process of elimination, and if I am a PR, I obviously don't want scum to know for sure.
My implication was that you were targeted by a PR last night. You didn't feel anything funny happen under the covers?
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Ok, I think I'm pretty much caught up. PPS, I'm actually not quite sure why you wanted a concrete statement from me about last night, but I can say for certain that I took no action that to my knowledge would have affected Calamitas. I will leave the question of whether or not I was even able to do an action open for now, because if I am not a PR, I don't want to make it easier for scum to find the PRs by process of elimination, and if I am a PR, I obviously don't want scum to know for sure.
My implication was that you were targeted by a PR last night. You didn't feel anything funny happen under the covers?
I'll go back and triple check the QT, but I am not aware of anything happening to me last night.
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So I've been lurking (sorry) but I'll be gone all day today as well.
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Don't expect very much from me today either.
Unvote until I can get my head back in this game.
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I'm guessing this game is going to stall quite a bit while the US people do their thing!
I'm really interested in hearing the rest of what the PPS/Dylan thing is about, so while I know PPS didn't want to be the centre of attention, I think he's holding my interest quite effectively for now...
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PPS, why Dylan?
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PPS, why Dylan?
I don't think he said he targeted Dylan, only that Dylan was targeted. My guess is that if PPS is telling the truth about being a PR, then he'll have targeted McGarnacle, but that maybe he'd been redirected somehow? It doesn't add up yet, which is why I'm still waiting for more of a story to make sense of. There may still be a way to tease something out that will help us, though.
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PPS, why Dylan?
I don't think he said he targeted Dylan, only that Dylan was targeted. My guess is that if PPS is telling the truth about being a PR, then he'll have targeted McGarnacle, but that maybe he'd been redirected somehow? It doesn't add up yet, which is why I'm still waiting for more of a story to make sense of. There may still be a way to tease something out that will help us, though.
I do know that Dylan was targeted by someone not me.
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So I didn't miss too much at all.
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I doubt anything will happen before monday.
Speaking of which. Is there time added to the day to take into account the holidays?
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Sure. The day ends on Thursday Dec 1, 3 pm
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I doubt anything will happen before monday.
Speaking of which. Is there time added to the day to take into account the holidays?
Hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving.
Except for the scum, of course.
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PPS, why Dylan?
I don't think he said he targeted Dylan, only that Dylan was targeted. My guess is that if PPS is telling the truth about being a PR, then he'll have targeted McGarnacle, but that maybe he'd been redirected somehow? It doesn't add up yet, which is why I'm still waiting for more of a story to make sense of. There may still be a way to tease something out that will help us, though.
I do know that Dylan was targeted by someone not me.
Well, i guess if that's the case, someone should be claiming who and what it was.
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I doubt anything will happen before monday.
Speaking of which. Is there time added to the day to take into account the holidays?
Hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving.
Except for the scum, of course.
This is actually...mildly scummy
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PPS, why Dylan?
I don't think he said he targeted Dylan, only that Dylan was targeted. My guess is that if PPS is telling the truth about being a PR, then he'll have targeted McGarnacle, but that maybe he'd been redirected somehow? It doesn't add up yet, which is why I'm still waiting for more of a story to make sense of. There may still be a way to tease something out that will help us, though.
I do know that Dylan was targeted by someone not me.
Well, i guess if that's the case, someone should be claiming who and what it was.
Should they? Why?
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I doubt anything will happen before monday.
Speaking of which. Is there time added to the day to take into account the holidays?
Hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving.
Except for the scum, of course.
This is actually...mildly scummy
So I don't wish myself a Happy Thanksgiving???
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I doubt anything will happen before monday.
Speaking of which. Is there time added to the day to take into account the holidays?
Hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving.
Except for the scum, of course.
This is actually...mildly scummy
So I don't wish myself a Happy Thanksgiving???
No, because scum are clearly on your mind. You were thinking about scum enough when making a Thanksgiving post that you chose to comment on the scum team.
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I doubt anything will happen before monday.
Speaking of which. Is there time added to the day to take into account the holidays?
Hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving.
Except for the scum, of course.
This is actually...mildly scummy
Why?
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Ohh nevermind, missed the last two posts.
Also meh, I don't really see that as at all scummy.
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PPS, why Dylan?
I don't think he said he targeted Dylan, only that Dylan was targeted. My guess is that if PPS is telling the truth about being a PR, then he'll have targeted McGarnacle, but that maybe he'd been redirected somehow? It doesn't add up yet, which is why I'm still waiting for more of a story to make sense of. There may still be a way to tease something out that will help us, though.
I do know that Dylan was targeted by someone not me.
Well, i guess if that's the case, someone should be claiming who and what it was.
Should they? Why?
Well, I initially thought they should because I would assume PPS also knows who it was already, and so if they don't claim, it would look scummy to try to hide it. The info could also be used to help figure out if previous claims (McG) were true, since the number of PRs seems to be getting pretty high. But I realize now that I've had more time to think about it that if that person is a town PR, it could also be bad to out yet another PR this early, so the benefits might not outweigh potential risks. Personally, I still think it would be good for them to at least say that they did in fact do something even if they leave off what exactly it was, because I think we could probably figure out at least one scum or at least be able to make an informed plan for who to lynch and keep an eye on.
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In light of all of this, I thought of another potential scenario which actually would have allowed Calamitas to be killed by a town vig. If McG is lying, the real doctor might have protected someone (me?) and protected that person from the NK. So where I thought a N1 vig kill probably didn't happen, I'm way more open to that possibility as long as someone can make a solid case for how McG was lying and is scum.
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If there was a Doctor that wasn't McGrassroots I feel confident they would have counterclaimed already. If they haven't they should.
As for the targeting of Dylan I don't see the utility in outing another PR today just for the sake of doing so. However, you might get why I think scum is OP with this many roles running around.
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I doubt anything will happen before monday.
Speaking of which. Is there time added to the day to take into account the holidays?
Hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving.
Except for the scum, of course.
This is actually...mildly scummy
So I don't wish myself a Happy Thanksgiving???
No, because scum are clearly on your mind. You were thinking about scum enough when making a Thanksgiving post that you chose to comment on the scum team.
Istn't this scummy for the same reason? Scumhunting during thanksgiving!
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In light of all of this, I thought of another potential scenario which actually would have allowed Calamitas to be killed by a town vig. If McG is lying, the real doctor might have protected someone (me?) and protected that person from the NK. So where I thought a N1 vig kill probably didn't happen, I'm way more open to that possibility as long as someone can make a solid case for how McG was lying and is scum.
Or they targeted RR and McG is telling the truth.
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In light of all of this, I thought of another potential scenario which actually would have allowed Calamitas to be killed by a town vig. If McG is lying, the real doctor might have protected someone (me?) and protected that person from the NK. So where I thought a N1 vig kill probably didn't happen, I'm way more open to that possibility as long as someone can make a solid case for how McG was lying and is scum.
Or they targeted RR and McG is telling the truth.
In my first post about this I already acknowledged that is possible, however, I did and still do think it was rather unlikely that both scum and McG randomly picked rr just based off of how he had played D1.
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I'm completely out until tomorrow, but I'll finally reread things then to try to make some sense of this.
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If there was a Doctor that wasn't McGrassroots I feel confident they would have counterclaimed already. If they haven't they should.
Yes and no.. if the restrictions that you and McGarnacle seem to agree on are true, then each PR we have is only 2/3 as effective as we think it should be normally (if we assume that there are the same numbers of the different card types). That means we might have more PRs without anything being too unbalanced :-) OTOH, the existence of a vanilla cop means we expect several VTs.
As for the targeting of Dylan I don't see the utility in outing another PR today just for the sake of doing so. However, you might get why I think scum is OP with this many roles running around.
Oops.. some of the above refers to this but too, but I'm phone posting because I'm out of the house all day, so editing is hard.
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In light of all of this, I thought of another potential scenario which actually would have allowed Calamitas to be killed by a town vig. If McG is lying, the real doctor might have protected someone (me?) and protected that person from the NK. So where I thought a N1 vig kill probably didn't happen, I'm way more open to that possibility as long as someone can make a solid case for how McG was lying and is scum.
Did I miss something major in D1 that makes it much more likely than I'd thought for anyone, let alone multiple people, to target Dylan in the night? If not, this scenario seems a bit of a stretch.
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Seems like there's a lot of wild night-action speculation going on that isn't particularly grounded in reality, and is also kind of a distraction for catching scum.
I'm still wary of McG but given that PPS is a claimed PR it seems like the right call to leave them both alive for tonight. Dylan should also be off the table, I think--if Dylan was targeted, Dylan probably isn't scum.
This gives us a narrower lynch pool, at least.
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Vote Count 2.2
PingPongSam (1): GKrieg 13
SpaceAnemone (1): pingpongsam
Not Voting (8):Eevee, IDontPlayThisGame, McGarnacle, Roadrunner7671, SpaceAnemone, Dylan32, Lekkit, Robz888
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The day ends on Thursday Dec 1, 3 pm
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Can we put Gkrieg in the lynch pool? All I remember him doing was going after me...
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If there was a Doctor that wasn't McGrassroots I feel confident they would have counterclaimed already. If they haven't they should.
Yes and no.. if the restrictions that you and McGarnacle seem to agree on are true, then each PR we have is only 2/3 as effective as we think it should be normally (if we assume that there are the same numbers of the different card types). That means we might have more PRs without anything being too unbalanced :-) OTOH, the existence of a vanilla cop means we expect several VTs.
As for the targeting of Dylan I don't see the utility in outing another PR today just for the sake of doing so. However, you might get why I think scum is OP with this many roles running around.
Oops.. some of the above refers to this but too, but I'm phone posting because I'm out of the house all day, so editing is hard.
It's all about utility. As Robz pointed out, that Dylan was targeted is good enough reason to omit him from lynch candidates today. Outing the PR who did the targeting doesn't really serve any further purpose.
Counterclaiming McGoGodancer, otoh, outs a PR but rapidly narrows the lynch pool to precisely 2 people. That said, I think it is possible with the role restrictions to have multiple doctors now that you mention it. Anyway, my main point is outing PRs works on a sliding scale of utility gained.
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Seems like there's a lot of wild night-action speculation going on that isn't particularly grounded in reality, and is also kind of a distraction for catching scum.
The N1 action stuff is a way of catching scums! My suggestion to PPS earlier was meant to help him build up a scum trap, but he clearly missed my ultra-subtle hints :-(
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Seems like there's a lot of wild night-action speculation going on that isn't particularly grounded in reality, and is also kind of a distraction for catching scum.
The N1 action stuff is a way of catching scums! My suggestion to PPS earlier was meant to help him build up a scum trap, but he clearly missed my ultra-subtle hints :-(
For all we know Dylan is hated or has a double vote or something he just doesn't know about that scum hexed him with. My imagination says all the scums have powers. My darkest corner of my imagination wonders if scum can benefit from targeting partners.
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Seems like there's a lot of wild night-action speculation going on that isn't particularly grounded in reality, and is also kind of a distraction for catching scum.
The N1 action stuff is a way of catching scums! My suggestion to PPS earlier was meant to help him build up a scum trap, but he clearly missed my ultra-subtle hints :-(
For all we know Dylan is hated or has a double vote or something he just doesn't know about that scum hexed him with. My imagination says all the scums have powers. My darkest corner of my imagination wonders if scum can benefit from targeting partners.
Argh, so you reckon we need to be extra-careful with voting? I hadn't even considered that sat of possibilities you mention, and I thought I'd covered quite a lot of possible set-up considerations in my head :-/
One thing we do have to go on, though, is that LL has said he believes this is a standard Mafia game, not RMM. Do the vote modifier components often come into standard games? And when I say he believes it, I mean he's read loads of games in the back-catalog here, and I think he's talked this set-up through with one or more vets, so I trust his assertion.
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All I can say to that is my imagination is always more paranoid and complex then the reality once the setup is revealed.
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Also, I've played way more RMM.
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Cayvie thought the Greater Arcana mafia games were "normal" too. Take a gander at Mafia games 9 and it's sequel, which was either 18 or 19.
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Can we put Gkrieg in the lynch pool? All I remember him doing was going after me...
I agree Gkrieg should be in the lynch pool, although he has said a bit more than just going after you. However, I just completely reread him, and he has been significantly less helpful than last game with him when I correctly read him as town. I'm not sure exactly how to describe it, but it seems like he's been way more restrained or something in his posts where as last game he was one of the people who always seemed to contribute good analysis pretty frequently, but I just haven't seen that same depth and involvement in trying to figure out who the scum is. There have been a couple decent posts I guess, but not on the same level as previously seen town!Gkrieg.
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Can we put Gkrieg in the lynch pool? All I remember him doing was going after me...
I agree Gkrieg should be in the lynch pool, although he has said a bit more than just going after you. However, I just completely reread him, and he has been significantly less helpful than last game with him when I correctly read him as town. I'm not sure exactly how to describe it, but it seems like he's been way more restrained or something in his posts where as last game he was one of the people who always seemed to contribute good analysis pretty frequently, but I just haven't seen that same depth and involvement in trying to figure out who the scum is. There have been a couple decent posts I guess, but not on the same level as previously seen town!Gkrieg.
You have to understand that the last time I played hard on day 1 I got lynched, and wasn't able to play in another game for a long long time and so I don't want to repeat that here
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Can we put Gkrieg in the lynch pool? All I remember him doing was going after me...
I agree Gkrieg should be in the lynch pool, although he has said a bit more than just going after you. However, I just completely reread him, and he has been significantly less helpful than last game with him when I correctly read him as town. I'm not sure exactly how to describe it, but it seems like he's been way more restrained or something in his posts where as last game he was one of the people who always seemed to contribute good analysis pretty frequently, but I just haven't seen that same depth and involvement in trying to figure out who the scum is. There have been a couple decent posts I guess, but not on the same level as previously seen town!Gkrieg.
You have to understand that the last time I played hard on day 1 I got lynched, and wasn't able to play in another game for a long long time and so I don't want to repeat that here
Welcome to D2; step it up.
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Can we put Gkrieg in the lynch pool? All I remember him doing was going after me...
I agree Gkrieg should be in the lynch pool, although he has said a bit more than just going after you. However, I just completely reread him, and he has been significantly less helpful than last game with him when I correctly read him as town. I'm not sure exactly how to describe it, but it seems like he's been way more restrained or something in his posts where as last game he was one of the people who always seemed to contribute good analysis pretty frequently, but I just haven't seen that same depth and involvement in trying to figure out who the scum is. There have been a couple decent posts I guess, but not on the same level as previously seen town!Gkrieg.
You have to understand that the last time I played hard on day 1 I got lynched, and wasn't able to play in another game for a long long time and so I don't want to repeat that here
Welcome to D2; step it up.
I'm still VLA
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For the record, I think meta is overrated.
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Just reread gkrieg.
Came away feeling somewhat towny. He's been present and commenting on pretty much all the relevant issues, using his vote and pushing cases. Two of his biggest were Calamitas and Jake, so that's something of a mark against him, but as someone who was also pushing them, I can't really count that too against him too much since I get where he was coming from.
So I disagree with RR about the quality of gkrieg's contributions - to me his stuff seemed very reasonable and generally sense-making.
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For the record, I think meta is overrated.
When I read this, my gut reaction was that this was another example of Lekkit just trying to shoot down another attempt to find scum, so I did a complete reread. I came away from that actually feeling like Lekkit is way more towny than I had been thinking. Your contributions to the D1 lynch discussion made sense and were basically right as far as Jake was concerned, and while I've disagreed with you on several points as events happened, your stuff actually made sense when I went back through.
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Also, I'm frankly not sure where I got that impression of your play so far Lekkit. Maybe since I thought Jake or Calm was scum and you were arguing against that, that's how I interpreted your arguments at the time.
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Also, I'm frankly not sure where I got that impression of your play so far Lekkit. Maybe since I thought Jake or Calm was scum and you were arguing against that, that's how I interpreted your arguments at the time.
My favorite way to play as scum is to make lots of sense and be right about those mislynches everyone else was so wrong about so I'm credible when it's needed later.
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While I expect major shifts over next week just a gut check on the living players (order is c&p of mod list)
GKrieg13 - null to town; expect big things in the next couple of days
Roadrunner7671 - null to town because of Jake and his meta, okay to lynch just for funnies tho
SpaceAnemone - null to scum, they are superb and looking towny and I think this could be the case; would lynch to see
McGarnacle - null to scum, still unsure about the claim but not going to lynch today as I think he can prove himself if he is what he says he is
Idontplaythisgame - null to scum, is this this game's lurker, nothing sticks out in my mind other than some Haddock style outrage and omgus in the early game, not opposed to a lynch at this point
Lekkit - town to scum, lol, no middle ground here. He says meta is overrated but lacking none makes him hard to read for me. Seems helpful like I would be if I were town. Would not lynch today.
Dylan32 - probably town
PingPongSam - so town it hurts
Robz888 - town to scum. Lean more towards town but I'm not null here, I can read scum or town into his play but there's no ho hum about it. Would not lynch today but if we mislynch again would consider it for tomorrow because I think he can drive us like that as scum.
Ok, so current pool to me is RR, SA, IDP in increasing order of preference although I hope and expect this to change once everyone gets engaged soon. Could easily be swayed on my town to scum not null reads.
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Argh.. I should have done more in here today, but I was busy re-reading for the end of M88, which is now over... so on the plus side, this game now has my full attention.
More reading tomorrow. When do we expect it to pick up again after this thanks giving lull?
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Argh.. I should have done more in here today, but I was busy re-reading for the end of M88, which is now over... so on the plus side, this game now has my full attention.
More reading tomorrow. When do we expect it to pick up again after this thanks giving lull?
I would hope tomorrow or the next day or so, considering for a vast majority of people work/school in US picks back up tomorrow, so it should be back to normal schedules until Christmas time.
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While I expect major shifts over next week just a gut check on the living players (order is c&p of mod list)
GKrieg13 - null to town; expect big things in the next couple of days
Roadrunner7671 - null to town because of Jake and his meta, okay to lynch just for funnies tho
SpaceAnemone - null to scum, they are superb and looking towny and I think this could be the case; would lynch to see
McGarnacle - null to scum, still unsure about the claim but not going to lynch today as I think he can prove himself if he is what he says he is
Idontplaythisgame - null to scum, is this this game's lurker, nothing sticks out in my mind other than some Haddock style outrage and omgus in the early game, not opposed to a lynch at this point
Lekkit - town to scum, lol, no middle ground here. He says meta is overrated but lacking none makes him hard to read for me. Seems helpful like I would be if I were town. Would not lynch today.
Dylan32 - probably town
PingPongSam - so town it hurts
Robz888 - town to scum. Lean more towards town but I'm not null here, I can read scum or town into his play but there's no ho hum about it. Would not lynch today but if we mislynch again would consider it for tomorrow because I think he can drive us like that as scum.
Ok, so current pool to me is RR, SA, IDP in increasing order of preference although I hope and expect this to change once everyone gets engaged soon. Could easily be swayed on my town to scum not null reads.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by the section on SA. Would it be a fair translation to say you think they have played well to look towny, for that reason are scummy, and you think it is the case that it is intentional and not just them actually being town? I just want to make sure I'm picking up what you are throwing down.
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If someone was stuck with an extra vote, would that show up in the mod's vote count posts? Like say: "Player X (2): Player Y." Or would the number just represent the number of people voting and the what looks like L-1 would actually trigger the lynch?
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While I expect major shifts over next week just a gut check on the living players (order is c&p of mod list)
GKrieg13 - null to town; expect big things in the next couple of days
Roadrunner7671 - null to town because of Jake and his meta, okay to lynch just for funnies tho
SpaceAnemone - null to scum, they are superb and looking towny and I think this could be the case; would lynch to see
McGarnacle - null to scum, still unsure about the claim but not going to lynch today as I think he can prove himself if he is what he says he is
Idontplaythisgame - null to scum, is this this game's lurker, nothing sticks out in my mind other than some Haddock style outrage and omgus in the early game, not opposed to a lynch at this point
Lekkit - town to scum, lol, no middle ground here. He says meta is overrated but lacking none makes him hard to read for me. Seems helpful like I would be if I were town. Would not lynch today.
Dylan32 - probably town
PingPongSam - so town it hurts
Robz888 - town to scum. Lean more towards town but I'm not null here, I can read scum or town into his play but there's no ho hum about it. Would not lynch today but if we mislynch again would consider it for tomorrow because I think he can drive us like that as scum.
Ok, so current pool to me is RR, SA, IDP in increasing order of preference although I hope and expect this to change once everyone gets engaged soon. Could easily be swayed on my town to scum not null reads.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by the section on SA. Would it be a fair translation to say you think they have played well to look towny, for that reason are scummy, and you think it is the case that it is intentional and not just them actually being town? I just want to make sure I'm picking up what you are throwing down.
The typo correction is "superb at looking towny". When I read SA I can see scum playing town well. That said, I think SA has asked key questions and moved on in ways that I think scum would have continued to press.
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I don't remember seeing IDPTG say anything about VLA. Unless he did, I feel like if he doesn't show back up tomorrow we should prod. If he has just been lurking instead of busy, I will probably vote for him.
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Argh.. I should have done more in here today, but I was busy re-reading for the end of M88, which is now over... so on the plus side, this game now has my full attention.
More reading tomorrow. When do we expect it to pick up again after this thanks giving lull?
I would hope tomorrow or the next day or so, considering for a vast majority of people work/school in US picks back up tomorrow, so it should be back to normal schedules until Christmas time.
Oh, this really is quite a US-heavy game, isn't it? I'm used to there being a few more Europeans and an odd Russian in the player mix. Thanks to the people who're finding time to post anyway :-)
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Reread IDPTG.
There weren't a lot of posts, 17 total. In the beginning, he mentioned being new in almost all his posts, but that stopped completely halfway through day 1*, and the content of his posts started getting stronger around that same time, his tone changing to more sure of himself. So, while the low post count is not ideal, the progression in content makes sense to me for a first time player who is town. I think that if he was scum and his partners had told him to play up his newness and confusion of everything, he wouldn't just mentioning it cold turkey (and actually start contributing with original analysis when he has posted), but would still try to use it as an excuse. Strong enough townread to eliminate from lynch pool for today for me. In fairness, there was some things I thought where scummy as well, mainly seeming very interested about different power roles and mentioning a possible third faction (both things I think are more front of mind for scum, town being naturally more puzzled with just finding people's alignments), but I do think the town narrative is stronger.
*my estimate
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Reread Lekkit.
His day 1 was way more content than I had realized, somehow Lekkit just has a habit of not making my radar despite in hindsight having plenty of posts, including original analysis and helpful follow-up questions to keep the game going (there wasn't as much analysis for day 2, but I think if I reread everyone else, that would probably hold true for today for most of us).
Day 1, in hindsight it seems he really was the voice of reason in many instances, the analysis he put out makes him look quite good. When I started realizing that Lekkit looks towny to me as well, it really hit me that the game is completely stalling, and rereading the more passive people, none of them seems scummy, so where is the scum? First instinct was "probably in the active people who aren't now pushing things because status quo is good for them", and just as I was formulating these thoughts, I stumbled upon this post:
I think one of the people making least sense right now is Robz.
He was very quiet at the start of day 1. Jumped on the Jake wagon and after the claim pushed it super hard. Then a couple of weird set up misses. And now taking a very non-confrontational approach. At least he's going for the claimed doctor.
I think I'll reread Robz next (not right away though, school is calling), but my current impression is in line with Lekkit's characterization. I don't remember anything from Robz day 2, and I feel it's very unlike him to be more helpful, engaged and present day 1 when nothing had really gone down yet, than a day latter where we actually are in a pretty crazy situation for this early in the game with a lynched freaking cop, a claimed doctor and other claims that are surprising and confusing.
Vote: Robz just in the name of applying pressure. I'll try to get to rereading him today still to form a more concrete opinion, right now it's a creeping suspicion.
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I don't remember seeing IDPTG say anything about VLA. Unless he did, I feel like if he doesn't show back up tomorrow we should prod. If he has just been lurking instead of busy, I will probably vote for him.
I didn't, but I should have in retrospect. I didn't expect to be so busy with Thanksgiving stuff.
Reread Lekkit.
Is there a way to do this other than set the page to "All" and ctrl+F my way through the thread? Because it's getting kind of annoying (I'll keep doing it if it's the only way).
PPE: 1
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I do it the same way, but you can control F something unique about their profile to only see their posts, not all the mentions of their nickname. I put in "Goko username: IDontPlaythisGame" when rereading you for example.
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About Dylan being targeted, if by scum, could be a RB. Dylan was read as town yesterday and some folks came out and said as much (probably myself included). Those could be the suspects if my suspicions are true. Pretty sure Robz was one of those people.
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I will get to rereading this later today, but why are people putting so much pressure on me? I have had announced V/LA, and there are people who have been much less active than I have.
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I will get to rereading this later today, but why are people putting so much pressure on me? I have had announced V/LA, and there are people who have been much less active than I have.
Not sure if you are referring to me but I think you are going to be the pivotal player today. You and Robz.
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Okay, this game has my full attention. Unfortunately the holiday really killed the momentum here and I sort of don't remember a lot of things people had said. But, I don't know, my "feelings" say I'm looking for scum among gkrieg, lekkit, and... Eevee. Getting increasingly wary of Eevee. I don't see why he would pressure vote me, honestly. Why do I need to be pressured? And his reads on other players are starting to sound way off to me.
Space and IDTG are also perfectly fine lynches but we can do better I think.
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Just reread gkrieg.
Came away feeling somewhat towny. He's been present and commenting on pretty much all the relevant issues, using his vote and pushing cases. Two of his biggest were Calamitas and Jake, so that's something of a mark against him, but as someone who was also pushing them, I can't really count that too against him too much since I get where he was coming from.
So I disagree with RR about the quality of gkrieg's contributions - to me his stuff seemed very reasonable and generally sense-making.
Eevee, can you explain why this makes gkrieg "townie"? 'Being present and commenting on pretty much all the relevant issues' is sort of competent-to-good scum play, and gkrieg is certainly more than capable of that.
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I will get to rereading this later today, but why are people putting so much pressure on me? I have had announced V/LA, and there are people who have been much less active than I have.
The pressure wasn't, at least from my end, to accuse you of not posting enough, I'm sorry if it came off that way. It was more of a scumhunting - type of pressure in that the reason I chose to reread you was because Roadrunner and Dylan had voiced their suggestions and I wanted to investigate. And also because you, along with the others I already reread were the people I perceived to be the least work to reread.
Certainly didn't mean to blame anyone for not being on the forums on a big holiday! My family lived in Canada for half a year and we liked Thanksgiving so much we are still organizing a dinner every year even though it's not really a holiday around here.
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I will get to rereading this later today, but why are people putting so much pressure on me? I have had announced V/LA, and there are people who have been much less active than I have.
Not sure if you are referring to me but I think you are going to be the pivotal player today. You and Robz.
What makes you say that? I think I agree.
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Just reread gkrieg.
Came away feeling somewhat towny. He's been present and commenting on pretty much all the relevant issues, using his vote and pushing cases. Two of his biggest were Calamitas and Jake, so that's something of a mark against him, but as someone who was also pushing them, I can't really count that too against him too much since I get where he was coming from.
So I disagree with RR about the quality of gkrieg's contributions - to me his stuff seemed very reasonable and generally sense-making.
Eevee, can you explain why this makes gkrieg "townie"? 'Being present and commenting on pretty much all the relevant issues' is sort of competent-to-good scum play, and gkrieg is certainly more than capable of that.
I guess I should have added that the analysis seemed sound, helpful, and "difficult to fake as scum" I guess. Just that it didn't look like he was forcing or faking it, but that he was figuring things out the same way I was. Sure I don't mean to clear him as autotown, but I reread him, and didn't see anything that seemed scummy to me. So that's a townier read than most people for me.
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Okay, this game has my full attention. Unfortunately the holiday really killed the momentum here and I sort of don't remember a lot of things people had said. But, I don't know, my "feelings" say I'm looking for scum among gkrieg, lekkit, and... Eevee. Getting increasingly wary of Eevee. I don't see why he would pressure vote me, honestly. Why do I need to be pressured? And his reads on other players are starting to sound way off to me.
Space and IDTG are also perfectly fine lynches but we can do better I think.
I kind of see why getting a vote like that is frustrating. I just think that on earlier days when we still have a lot of people in the game it's pretty much always preferable to be using your vote, if only to provoke frustrated reactions for everyone to analyze.
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I will get to rereading this later today, but why are people putting so much pressure on me? I have had announced V/LA, and there are people who have been much less active than I have.
Not sure if you are referring to me but I think you are going to be the pivotal player today. You and Robz.
What makes you say that? I think I agree.
It's hard to verbalize but basically, gkrieg has remained the most neutral player to date and has contributed the least with respect to his traditional output. So, I think he's about to lay it on us and catalyze the game in a transformational way. Robz doesn't really do D1s so he is going to play out today as well. He is the opposite as far as neutrality goes so his plays are going to make waves as well. That he's already suspicious of Gkrieg increases the amplitude of this even further. The rest of us are along for the ride unless someone manages to wrench in some crazy claim which even then will have to filter through the above outlined lens.
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I will get to rereading this later today, but why are people putting so much pressure on me? I have had announced V/LA, and there are people who have been much less active than I have.
My comments at least were based more off of D1, not holding Thanksgiving business against you. And I've pointed out the other inactive players too at different points. By agreeing with RR, I was not saying "I think gkrieg is scum." It was just I would be ok with considering a gkrieg lynch because I could see him being scum. So you could for sure move yourself out of that now that schedules are getting back to normal.
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I will get to rereading this later today, but why are people putting so much pressure on me? I have had announced V/LA, and there are people who have been much less active than I have.
My comments at least were based more off of D1, not holding Thanksgiving business against you. And I've pointed out the other inactive players too at different points. By agreeing with RR, I was not saying "I think gkrieg is scum." It was just I would be ok with considering a gkrieg lynch because I could see him being scum. So you could for sure move yourself out of that now that schedules are getting back to normal.
In my head, I thought Thanksgiving "busyness" but wrote business. Hopefully people didn't have too much business to do!
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Well I hope I didn't disappoint people. I'm going to do a full reread of the game, because I don't really remember too much. I will point out that I do these kinds of rereads as either alignment, before other people point it out and all of the newbies lose their trust in me for no reason.
D1:
Ok first thing to note is that Jake and Calamitas are dead.
-Eevee starts off RVS trying to be helpful. That is kind of what I would expect from him as either alignment.
- Oh ya McGarnacle starts off explaining that he has always been town, like always, like there is no way that he could ever be scum.
I feel like I'll be able to read RR, but I've also played /w SA and PPS B4.
- @McGarnacle Do you have any ideas on him for this game?
Jake and RR know each other IRL, and it shows. They always spend a disproportionate amount of time talking to, and misreading, each other.
- This looks slightly partnery of Robz. Something to keep in mind if RR or Robz ever flip scum.
- IDPTG says something that sounds relatively newbie town, and PPS and McGarnacle jump on him.
I didn't like that either but I didn't want to point it out
This seems towny, if not something I think is good to do (I think t's better to point things out and try to scum hunt, create interactions and make people talk about their game plan). I think mafia-RR would want to stir up drama, not avoid creating it.
Mega agree.
- Actually it almost looks like Robz is buddying RR.
- I really like IDPTG's blatant OMGUS of PPS. Reads very townie to me.#107
So, we have a McGarnacle, Gkreig, IDP scum team. Glad I'm voting one of them already.
Um, why is that?
On an unrelated note, how come posts in mafia game threads do not increase your post count.
It's a thing. I call scum teams D1. I'm using the interaction around my IDP vote as a basis for this one. You are opportunistically early bussing your partner during RVS for distance. Don't try to deny it. Gkreig is playing good cop by diverting onto RR. It's all quite clear; I mean I haven't seen such a transparent, incompetent scum team since the last D1 I played as town.
Post counts would be ridiculously inflated and less relevant (I suppose) if game thread posts were counted (I might be in the mid 5 figure count, for example) (ninja'd)
- I don't know what this says about McGarnacle, but I think it is telling one way. It seems like he only comments on this because he is one of the scum team that PPS was proposing. I don't remember his meta all that well, is this normal for him as scum or as town?
I'll bite.
Vote: Jake
He's been less active than usual and different
- This is actually pretty scummy from RR. He usually is not the person to be active and starting cases on people D1. This could be because he knows Jake IRL, but it also just seems very against his meta.
- RR and Jake in future games should not interact so uselessly with each other. It is painful to reread.
Well, then, Vote: Jake just to stop the madness.
- It also leads to stuff like this, which is not a good thing. It is hard to read anything about PPS from this vote, because we all wanted the madness to stop.
- Eevee unvotes right when Jake's wagon starts to gain some momentum. I think this is townie.
- Then Robz votes for Jake. At this point in the reread, I kind of have a strong belief that Robz is scum, so I'm not sure how impartial the rest of the reread will be.
- PPS then votes for SA, which I think fits in with town!PPS. Throwing his vote around D1 I remember being a town trait for him.
- SA just seems scummy here. They don't have really any useful interactions with people. They comment on stuff, but they don't really move the game along. There is lots going on with Jake and everything and they choose to post this:
Wasn't joking and smileys a scumtell back in the days?
Yeah, I get people wanting to scumread me for emoticons, but I disagree with the idea that I have to make my meta like everyone else's meta in order to be a useful player. And I'm a bit stubborn with stuff like that :-P I do quite often get mislynched, though, especially in games where gkrieg is playing :-(
- Even the last part is a mix of a joke and a AtE.
- in #177 Robz once again says that RR and Jake never read each other correctly, while he is voting for Jake, a case that RR started.
After a more of a re-read, I'd like to vote: McGarnacle.
- This is a very strange way to vote.
After a more of a re-read, I'd like to vote: McGarnacle.
Yeah that seems...odd
I'm not getting strong scum reads on anyone yet, but McGarnacle's set himself us as the innocent bewildered newbie, which was exactly what I did when I was scum. Vets have a habit of believing it from a newbie, and there are lots of extreme vets around. There's another thing, too, but ask me again sometime later in D1.
- And here is the case. SA is also on my scum list for this. And the fact that they aren't contributing much until this point.
I mean...it's probably the best case I've seen all day, now that you lay it out like that.
Vote: McGarnacle
- More of RR trying to push cases, which is scummy of him D1.
- Eevee posts a huge reads list in #211. I'm still pretty null on him from the list. He has pretty good manipulation and buddying skills, but the thing I noticed about his reads list is that it was more of "I think I can give a read on this person" than an actual reads list. Like giving how good he will be a reading people later on than actually giving reads on people. I would say that he is slightly scummy for the list.
- McGarnacle then votes for Jake again citing Eevee's case on him.
Fine you want new reads here
Big G is major lurking has posted less than 5 times in this game so possible lynch
RR is just giving me headaches
PPS may be scum just kind of throwing his vote around not contributing so for once he actuality is acti-lurking
Ee is very likely to be town
McG is just kind of following the herd of where people are voting
Dylan is just null
robz, Lek, IDP and calm are kind of lurking but still null
SA is null
Just been busy. Not really lurking. I feel like when I have commented, they have had content in them. I've been commenting on many of the major developments.
At this point, I would just vote for Jake so he would stop posting so much. He's taking over the thread, and making scum hunting impossible because everyone is just talking about him. There is no way that he is scum though. His last few posts have shown a desire to actually live past D1, and he is seriously the easiest wagon to push, because I don't think people feel too bad if he is town, because he is pretty anti-town because he lets people not make comments about the rest of the game.
Eevee also looks town from his big post. Enough for a D1 pass. Definitely a player to watch out for later though.
Top D1ers are eevee, Dylan, Jake.
Other towniers: IDPTG, PPS (although this one is much less so)
I would love to lynch a lurker today. Calamitas seems like a good one. Usually he is more dynamic.
Robz, Lekkit, or McGarnacle also seem like good choices.
Other possibilities: RR (voting for Jake at this point)
unvote
- Surprisingly I actually agree with most of my reads from D1!me. Look at that.
My reads-
Jake- My strongest scumread. For all the reasons already listed.
SA- Feels like town, but in a different way then in that first game ;).
RR- Maybe he and Jake are the scumteam just putting on a show and distracting us?
Also this is very suspicious:
No, we don't want new reads. Or at least I don't :P
You don't want anything except to lynch me
That's really all I have.
- McGarnacle and SA also have a weird interaction pattern. I don't think there is anything from D1 that would make me comfortable saying that SA is town. They just don't do enough to give a read on them, especially when you only give reads on 3 people.
- Then when IDPTG puts forward a case on Calamitas, McGarnacle inserts them in their lynch pool in front of Rr.
- Lekkit has a few decent posts. #280 is pretty decent. I don't think he is in my active lynch-pursuit pool.
I don't think that apply McG because I always play like that and that was my first game so you can't base that I am scum because you don't know how i play as town.
This is a scumslip, right?
- This is something that I don't see McGarnacle doing as newb!scum. I don't think he tries to point out a scum slip that he knows 100% isn't a scum slip.
- Dylan's #317 makes his town read slip slightly in my eyes.
- RR doesn't like Calamitas's asking for the flavor name of Jake.
- Robz treatment of Jake in $440, #441 after Jake has claimed is very scummy in my eyes. It is totally within Robz meta to blatantly just say that we should lynch a cop that he knows is actually a cop.
Ok I'm stopping at #470. I stopped reading the last few posts and just skimmed, and that is not good.
Conclusions so far:
- I think a team of Robz, RR, SA is what we are looking at here. Like seriously. I would be very happy with lynching any one of them today. SA didn't really make any useful contributions to the game, RR and Robz were the ones that kept the focus on Jake, and RR has been playing outside of his meta in a bad way.
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Okay, so I've been going through the thread making sure I didn't miss too much over Thanksgiving (I tried to keep up to date even if I couldn't post). My reads and thoughts:
GKrieg13:
Nothing seemed super scummy although he didn't get on the Jake wagon until the very end. While this could very much be a town thing, I could see scum predicting that the Jake wagon would go through and therefore staying off of it as long as possible to avoid seeming suspicious when he flips town. I don't know how likely that is, but I want to put it out there. Leaning town.
Roadrunner7671:
Lots and lots of posts. The vast majority of them have been one line and almost all about Jake. He doesn't seem to have done anything useful other than getting our Cop lynched. Not convinced, but I could see this being scum acti-lurking. Leaning scum.
SpaceAnemone:
No read to speak of.
McGarnacle:
Not sure what to make of the Doctor claim, especially after I was convinced that Jake was lying and he wasn't. In D1, when accused of being scum, his defense was along the lines of inexperience, having played this way as town in previous games, and never having been scum. In post #598, McGarnacle once again plays up the newness. Then there's choosing RR as his Doctor choice. I'd say scum, but I'm worried because of the Doctor claim. Unsure.
Lekkit:
Initially focused on McGarnacle but switched after the Doctor claim. Didn't really see much else to go on. Leaning town.
Dylan32:
Called for Jake to claim. Other than that, has seemed pretty sensible and moderated. Leaning town.
PingPongSam:
I haven't had a chance to read through all the posts. One thing I found interesting is that Eevee was left off his read list. PPS, what are your thoughts on Eevee?
Running out of time before work so I'm going to have to cut this short. I'll try to finish it by tonight, starting with my read of PPS.
PPE: 1
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Looks like your re-read was just confirming the impressions you already had.
- I think a team of Robz, RR, SA is what we are looking at here. Like seriously. I would be very happy with lynching any one of them today. SA didn't really make any useful contributions to the game, RR and Robz were the ones that kept the focus on Jake, and RR has been playing outside of his meta in a bad way.
"RR and Robz kept the focus on Jake." And you didn't? I worked very hard at the end of the day to try and figure out what lynch was in town's best interest, given the claims, looming deadline, and not everyone being around. I don't remember you doing anything to stop the Jake lynch.
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In fact, let's look at the end of Day 1. Here's the vote count after the whole Jake and McG claiming debacle.
Vote Count 1.8
JakeTheBaseballGod22 (3): Robz888, Eevee, IDontPlayThisGame
McGarnacle (4): SpaceAnemone, Calamitas, GKrieg13, Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (1): pingpongsam
Calamitas (1): McGarnacle
Not Voting (3): Roadrunner7671, Lekkit, JakeTheBaseballGod22
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday Nov 20 at 1 pm, which is 1.5 hours from now.
Jake then pivots to Calamitas, who gets some momentum going against him. Gkrieg has this to say:
I'm fine with Jake or Calamitas now. Cop and doctor are still scummy together.
He then votes:
vote: Jake
Actually vote: Calamitas
Which certainly looks to me like wanting to push a Jake lynch without actually being on it.
But then Calamitas gets another serious vote and the Jake lynch is in doubt. Gkrieg to the rescue!
I would probably prefer a Jake lynch actually. But will settle for either. vote: Jake
I then ask which wagon is happening because we need to lynch someone (and I didn't know about the plurality thing):
I would probably prefer a Jake lynch actually. But will settle for either. vote: Jake
At this point, I will vote for anyone, but I need to go in like 3 minutes.
Me too. Jake or calm?
The answer:
Jake
Eevee also pushes this way, mind you:
I say jake! Cal does not seem like scum
Gkrieg's next post is this:
I feel like RR is scum from all this
Which to my mind is the exact opposite of the takeaway here--I saw RR flailing in the exact same way me and some other people were flailing. It was a legitimately tough spot, figuring out what was the right lynch there. Gkrieg at times avoided being on the Jake wagon, but pushed it when it counted most, and then (and now) seeks other sources of blame.
If you re-read the end of Day 1, I think you'll see what I'm talking about. RR looks just as townie to me as he did then. Eevee is sort of a bigger mystery. Gkrieg looks scummy as hell.
Vote: Gkrieg
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As for Space, I don't know. I can't remember a single thing Space did yesterday. On the other hand, Space is doing more than their share of work today, which gives me some pause at least.
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Huh, not sure how I missed Eevee except I was on mobile and was copy paste editing the mod list of players. I felt like it was short for some reason so that must be it.
Eevee - is quite fuzzy and adorable. I mean, he sure doesn't look scummy but there could be teeth under there. He seems to be playing along to get along. He asks questions which is always good. He hasn't got pushy with anyone yet which makes me wonder. I prefer when people take firm positions or at least make somebody mad.
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Gkrieg/Robz could be town smacking town around but I'm betting there's a scum betwixt them.
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Eevee always tries to make nice, it's not really an alignment tell, I don't think.
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Eevee always tries to make nice, it's not really an alignment tell, I don't think.
right, in short, I can't make use of his play style. If he is scum it will have to come out through POE for me.
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Let's see what this does:
Vote: GKrieg
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I will get to rereading this later today, but why are people putting so much pressure on me? I have had announced V/LA, and there are people who have been much less active than I have.
Not sure if you are referring to me but I think you are going to be the pivotal player today. You and Robz.
What makes you say that? I think I agree.
It's hard to verbalize but basically, gkrieg has remained the most neutral player to date and has contributed the least with respect to his traditional output. So, I think he's about to lay it on us and catalyze the game in a transformational way. Robz doesn't really do D1s so he is going to play out today as well. He is the opposite as far as neutrality goes so his plays are going to make waves as well. That he's already suspicious of Gkrieg increases the amplitude of this even further. The rest of us are along for the ride unless someone manages to wrench in some crazy claim which even then will have to filter through the above outlined lens.
The bolded section almost seems prophetic right about now.
Also, I realize a lot of people didn't like my post urging Jake to claim. I know I should just let it go, but I do want to explain what I was thinking then. At that point, all signs pointed to Jake getting hammered, regardless of whether or not I hopped on his wagon, and I still was pretty undecided about whether or not he was really scum or not. I was hoping he was since he had played himself into an easy lynch, but I still didn't want to commit to his wagon and give scum a big chance to hammer if he wasn't. I didn't think he would claim at anything less than L-1 and I wanted him to claim while someone was around to unvote and reduce pressure if it turned out that he was something important (e.g. oh you know, the cop). I knew I would be online working for a while to be able to check in and unvote quickly if he did claim a PR, hopefully before scum could hammer. As you can see, as soon as I saw he claimed cop, I unvoted to wait and see if anyone would counterclaim before ultimately deciding who to vote for later. Obviously, that counterclaim never happened, he flipped cop, and thus I inadvertently outed the cop, although if I hadn't I'm sure someone else would have put him at L-1 before too long the way things were going then.
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I don't like what gkreig is really doing here and I think he's way off, but I don't think it's scummy. I don't like how he's calling me scummy for 'playing outside my meta' though, I'm not sure he could decisively tell me what my meta is, and trying to push the game forward on D1 isn't so much a meta thing as just a thing anyone should do.
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Okay, so I've been going through the thread making sure I didn't miss too much over Thanksgiving (I tried to keep up to date even if I couldn't post). My reads and thoughts:
GKrieg13:
Nothing seemed super scummy although he didn't get on the Jake wagon until the very end. While this could very much be a town thing, I could see scum predicting that the Jake wagon would go through and therefore staying off of it as long as possible to avoid seeming suspicious when he flips town. I don't know how likely that is, but I want to put it out there. Leaning town.
Roadrunner7671:
Lots and lots of posts. The vast majority of them have been one line and almost all about Jake. He doesn't seem to have done anything useful other than getting our Cop lynched. Not convinced, but I could see this being scum acti-lurking. Leaning scum.
SpaceAnemone:
No read to speak of.
McGarnacle:
Not sure what to make of the Doctor claim, especially after I was convinced that Jake was lying and he wasn't. In D1, when accused of being scum, his defense was along the lines of inexperience, having played this way as town in previous games, and never having been scum. In post #598, McGarnacle once again plays up the newness. Then there's choosing RR as his Doctor choice. I'd say scum, but I'm worried because of the Doctor claim. Unsure.
Lekkit:
Initially focused on McGarnacle but switched after the Doctor claim. Didn't really see much else to go on. Leaning town.
Dylan32:
Called for Jake to claim. Other than that, has seemed pretty sensible and moderated. Leaning town.
PingPongSam:
I haven't had a chance to read through all the posts. One thing I found interesting is that Eevee was left off his read list. PPS, what are your thoughts on Eevee?
Running out of time before work so I'm going to have to cut this short. I'll try to finish it by tonight, starting with my read of PPS.
PPE: 1
This seems super scummy to me. Vote: IDPTG
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Okay, so I've been going through the thread making sure I didn't miss too much over Thanksgiving (I tried to keep up to date even if I couldn't post). My reads and thoughts:
GKrieg13:
Nothing seemed super scummy although he didn't get on the Jake wagon until the very end. While this could very much be a town thing, I could see scum predicting that the Jake wagon would go through and therefore staying off of it as long as possible to avoid seeming suspicious when he flips town. I don't know how likely that is, but I want to put it out there. Leaning town.
Roadrunner7671:
Lots and lots of posts. The vast majority of them have been one line and almost all about Jake. He doesn't seem to have done anything useful other than getting our Cop lynched. Not convinced, but I could see this being scum acti-lurking. Leaning scum.
SpaceAnemone:
No read to speak of.
McGarnacle:
Not sure what to make of the Doctor claim, especially after I was convinced that Jake was lying and he wasn't. In D1, when accused of being scum, his defense was along the lines of inexperience, having played this way as town in previous games, and never having been scum. In post #598, McGarnacle once again plays up the newness. Then there's choosing RR as his Doctor choice. I'd say scum, but I'm worried because of the Doctor claim. Unsure.
Lekkit:
Initially focused on McGarnacle but switched after the Doctor claim. Didn't really see much else to go on. Leaning town.
Dylan32:
Called for Jake to claim. Other than that, has seemed pretty sensible and moderated. Leaning town.
PingPongSam:
I haven't had a chance to read through all the posts. One thing I found interesting is that Eevee was left off his read list. PPS, what are your thoughts on Eevee?
Running out of time before work so I'm going to have to cut this short. I'll try to finish it by tonight, starting with my read of PPS.
PPE: 1
This seems super scummy to me. Vote: IDPTG
What about this is scummy?
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Yeah, Gkrieg not including the fact that at a few key points he was also pushing for Jake looks bad. I am curious to hear the rest of his game analysis though when he gets time to finish it. His take on D2 so far could be telling. Also, if he is only up to #470, there's still almost half of D1 still to go...
Robz, is there someone along with Gkrieg that you also think is probably scum?
RR, is there a particular part of IDPTG's post that is scummy to you?
PPE1
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In fact, let's look at the end of Day 1. Here's the vote count after the whole Jake and McG claiming debacle.
Vote Count 1.8
JakeTheBaseballGod22 (3): Robz888, Eevee, IDontPlayThisGame
McGarnacle (4): SpaceAnemone, Calamitas, GKrieg13, Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (1): pingpongsam
Calamitas (1): McGarnacle
Not Voting (3): Roadrunner7671, Lekkit, JakeTheBaseballGod22
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday Nov 20 at 1 pm, which is 1.5 hours from now.
Jake then pivots to Calamitas, who gets some momentum going against him. Gkrieg has this to say:
I'm fine with Jake or Calamitas now. Cop and doctor are still scummy together.
He then votes:
vote: Jake
Actually vote: Calamitas
Which certainly looks to me like wanting to push a Jake lynch without actually being on it.
But then Calamitas gets another serious vote and the Jake lynch is in doubt. Gkrieg to the rescue!
I would probably prefer a Jake lynch actually. But will settle for either. vote: Jake
I then ask which wagon is happening because we need to lynch someone (and I didn't know about the plurality thing):
I would probably prefer a Jake lynch actually. But will settle for either. vote: Jake
At this point, I will vote for anyone, but I need to go in like 3 minutes.
Me too. Jake or calm?
The answer:
Jake
Eevee also pushes this way, mind you:
I say jake! Cal does not seem like scum
Gkrieg's next post is this:
I feel like RR is scum from all this
Which to my mind is the exact opposite of the takeaway here--I saw RR flailing in the exact same way me and some other people were flailing. It was a legitimately tough spot, figuring out what was the right lynch there. Gkrieg at times avoided being on the Jake wagon, but pushed it when it counted most, and then (and now) seeks other sources of blame.
If you re-read the end of Day 1, I think you'll see what I'm talking about. RR looks just as townie to me as he did then. Eevee is sort of a bigger mystery. Gkrieg looks scummy as hell.
Vote: Gkrieg
So I'm scummy for pushing Jake over Calamitas? I haven't gotten to the end of the day with my reread, but from your part at the end there, you are claiming that RR looks townie for flailing because it was a "legitimately tough spot", but you are voting me because I was flailing as well. I went from Jake to Calamitas then back to Jake. All of the emotions that you convey in your 2nd from last paragraph are the exact emotions that are there in all of the posts of mine that you quoted.
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Either Gkrieg of Robz is scum. I'm not sure which, though.
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Yeah, Gkrieg not including the fact that at a few key points he was also pushing for Jake looks bad. I am curious to hear the rest of his game analysis though when he gets time to finish it. His take on D2 so far could be telling. Also, if he is only up to #470, there's still almost half of D1 still to go...
Robz, is there someone along with Gkrieg that you also think is probably scum?
RR, is there a particular part of IDPTG's post that is scummy to you?
PPE1
I wasn't pushing for Jake before #470, which is where I am in my reread, so the fact that I don't mention myself pushing Jake's wagon can't be scummy or townie, it's just that I haven't gotten to that part yet.
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Either Gkrieg of Robz is scum. I'm not sure which, though.
Why do you get that feeling? What from Robz v gkrieg screams scum v town to you?
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Yeah, Gkrieg not including the fact that at a few key points he was also pushing for Jake looks bad. I am curious to hear the rest of his game analysis though when he gets time to finish it. His take on D2 so far could be telling. Also, if he is only up to #470, there's still almost half of D1 still to go...
Robz, is there someone along with Gkrieg that you also think is probably scum?
RR, is there a particular part of IDPTG's post that is scummy to you?
PPE1
I wasn't pushing for Jake before #470, which is where I am in my reread, so the fact that I don't mention myself pushing Jake's wagon can't be scummy or townie, it's just that I haven't gotten to that part yet.
While you were typing this (I assume) that exact thought donned on me so I went back to check that, and your "I think I prefer Jake" post was in the 700s, so yeah, fair enough.
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Either Gkrieg of Robz is scum. I'm not sure which, though.
Why do you get that feeling? What from Robz v gkrieg screams scum v town to you?
This looks like McG is sheeping PPS's comment in post #1018.
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So maybe I should've explained IDPTG's scumminess. He's fallen into the classic noob!scum trap: reading everyone as town!
He goes with the flow, which seems to be reading RR as mildly scummy. PPS expressed a mild scumread on me, the Gkreig had a much more severe scumread on me, so calling RR scum is a pretty safe thing to do to keep your head down.
Noob!scum tends to not bus during the early game (I know this), so it's understandable that IDPTG would express town reads on his partners. However, he also townreads everyone else! Noob scum often townreads everyone because they know that town people are, as a matter of fact, town, so it's difficult to put up a case against someone who is confirmed town.
Thanks for making me explain, it just made me feel better about my vote.
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So I'm scummy for pushing Jake over Calamitas? I haven't gotten to the end of the day with my reread, but from your part at the end there, you are claiming that RR looks townie for flailing because it was a "legitimately tough spot", but you are voting me because I was flailing as well. I went from Jake to Calamitas then back to Jake. All of the emotions that you convey in your 2nd from last paragraph are the exact emotions that are there in all of the posts of mine that you quoted.
Well, it's a little different: RR and I were like legitimately flailing, tons of posts and confusion and back and forth. You were relatively calm and cool-headed.
But the bigger thing is this: Okay, you're saying all three of us flailed similarly, and yet you were the first one to accuse RR of looking scummy for doing that very thing.
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So I'm scummy for pushing Jake over Calamitas? I haven't gotten to the end of the day with my reread, but from your part at the end there, you are claiming that RR looks townie for flailing because it was a "legitimately tough spot", but you are voting me because I was flailing as well. I went from Jake to Calamitas then back to Jake. All of the emotions that you convey in your 2nd from last paragraph are the exact emotions that are there in all of the posts of mine that you quoted.
Well, it's a little different: RR and I were like legitimately flailing, tons of posts and confusion and back and forth. You were relatively calm and cool-headed.
But the bigger thing is this: Okay, you're saying all three of us flailed similarly, and yet you were the first one to accuse RR of looking scummy for doing that very thing.
You are putting words into my mouth! I said RR's meta is to not want to lynch anyone D1. His voting and pushing wagons is scummy when it is early D1. You are now saying that all three of us flailed similarly, and that I'm accusing RR because of EoD flailing. I haven't gotten to that part of the game in my reread yet! So it is impossible for me to have accused RR of looking scummy from his EoD flailing!
To your other point, I generally don't flail at the end of D1 when I'm town and someone that isn't a strong town read or me is the leading wagon. In my eyes, Jake was scummy, but none of the EoD wagons were super townie to me. None of them were screaming town so bad that I felt the need to defend them. How is that a scummy view?
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You said this yesterday.
I feel like RR is scum from all this
I assumed you meant that RR's behavior, which was sort of similar to your own although different in ways that I think make him much less likely to be scum, made you feel like he was scum. I am now to understand that it's simply because its at odds with RR's meta? That's your great case on RR? That's even thinner.
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So maybe I should've explained IDPTG's scumminess. He's fallen into the classic noob!scum trap: reading everyone as town!
He goes with the flow, which seems to be reading RR as mildly scummy. PPS expressed a mild scumread on me, the Gkreig had a much more severe scumread on me, so calling RR scum is a pretty safe thing to do to keep your head down.
Noob!scum tends to not bus during the early game (I know this), so it's understandable that IDPTG would express town reads on his partners. However, he also townreads everyone else! Noob scum often townreads everyone because they know that town people are, as a matter of fact, town, so it's difficult to put up a case against someone who is confirmed town.
Thanks for making me explain, it just made me feel better about my vote.
That's actually a better reason than I expected to get.
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You said this yesterday.
I feel like RR is scum from all this
I assumed you meant that RR's behavior, which was sort of similar to your own although different in ways that I think make him much less likely to be scum, made you feel like he was scum. I am now to understand that it's simply because its at odds with RR's meta? That's your great case on RR? That's even thinner.
I never said I had a great case on RR. I think he is scummy partially because of the interactions with you, who I think is scummy for different reasons.
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So maybe I should've explained IDPTG's scumminess. He's fallen into the classic noob!scum trap: reading everyone as town!
He goes with the flow, which seems to be reading RR as mildly scummy. PPS expressed a mild scumread on me, the Gkreig had a much more severe scumread on me, so calling RR scum is a pretty safe thing to do to keep your head down.
Noob!scum tends to not bus during the early game (I know this), so it's understandable that IDPTG would express town reads on his partners. However, he also townreads everyone else! Noob scum often townreads everyone because they know that town people are, as a matter of fact, town, so it's difficult to put up a case against someone who is confirmed town.
Thanks for making me explain, it just made me feel better about my vote.
That's actually a better reason than I expected to get.
<3
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Could someone please say which of Jake's comments cleared McG? I just reread that whole exchange and never actually saw anything that Jake said that directly said McG was town.
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Could someone please say which of Jake's comments cleared McG? I just reread that whole exchange and never actually saw anything that Jake said that directly said McG was town.
Basically, Jake's PM and McGeometry's PM say the same thing about card types. Although this could mean McGatorade is a scum PR, it's much more likely that he's a Doctor.
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Quick post because I'm on break at work.
So maybe I should've explained IDPTG's scumminess. He's fallen into the classic noob!scum trap: reading everyone as town!
He goes with the flow, which seems to be reading RR as mildly scummy. PPS expressed a mild scumread on me, the Gkreig had a much more severe scumread on me, so calling RR scum is a pretty safe thing to do to keep your head down.
Noob!scum tends to not bus during the early game (I know this), so it's understandable that IDPTG would express town reads on his partners. However, he also townreads everyone else! Noob scum often townreads everyone because they know that town people are, as a matter of fact, town, so it's difficult to put up a case against someone who is confirmed town.
Thanks for making me explain, it just made me feel better about my vote.
RR, could you explain how 3 town reads, 2 null reads, and 1 scum read count as 9 town reads?
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It's not so much '9 town reads' as no scum reads. And based on what you said about McGingerbread, I sort of considered that a town read.
But you said nothing about SA. You were sort of hedgey on McGermany, which is even more scummy.
Your reads just don't seem like you're scumhunting.
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I've been reading but not really processing everything. Will probably be back on wednesday in full.
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Due to unforseen circumstances, I will not have forum access for about 2 weeks. Please sign me out of any game I'm in. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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It's not so much '9 town reads' as no scum reads. And based on what you said about McGingerbread, I sort of considered that a town read.
But you said nothing about SA. You were sort of hedgey on McGermany, which is even more scummy.
Your reads just don't seem like you're scumhunting.
IDPTG, you also mentioned PPS not saying anything about Eevee, but then you didn't say anything either...
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Due to unforseen circumstances, I will not have forum access for about 2 weeks. Please sign me out of any game I'm in. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Serious bummer...
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It's not so much '9 town reads' as no scum reads. And based on what you said about McGingerbread, I sort of considered that a town read.
But you said nothing about SA. You were sort of hedgey on McGermany, which is even more scummy.
Your reads just don't seem like you're scumhunting.
IDPTG, you also mentioned PPS not saying anything about Eevee, but then you didn't say anything either...
I also said that I ran out of time to write the post and would continue later, starting with PPS (I was going down the list on page 1). Working on the continuation now, although from mobile, so it might take a bit.
That said, I like what RR did there by saying I'd fallen into the noob!scum trap of reading everyone as town. Now any scum reads on the rest of the list could be seen as me trying to get out of that rather than honest reads. It's a nice way to protect his scum-buddies.
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It's not so much '9 town reads' as no scum reads. And based on what you said about McGingerbread, I sort of considered that a town read.
But you said nothing about SA. You were sort of hedgey on McGermany, which is even more scummy.
Your reads just don't seem like you're scumhunting.
IDPTG, you also mentioned PPS not saying anything about Eevee, but then you didn't say anything either...
I also said that I ran out of time to write the post and would continue later, starting with PPS (I was going down the list on page 1). Working on the continuation now, although from mobile, so it might take a bit.
That said, I like what RR did there by saying I'd fallen into the noob!scum trap of reading everyone as town. Now any scum reads on the rest of the list could be seen as me trying to get out of that rather than honest reads. It's a nice way to protect his scum-buddies.
Shoot! Sorry I didn't notice that.
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Vote Count 2.3
PingPongSam (1): GKrieg13
Robz888 (1): Eevee
GKrieg13 (2): Robz888, pingpongsam
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Roadrunner7671
Not Voting (5): IDontPlayThisGame, McGarnacle, SpaceAnemone, Dylan32, Lekkit
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The day ends on Thursday Dec 1, 3 pm
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Okay, never doing a full reread on mobile again. That was awful.
PPS: To be honest, I missed the middle section of his posts. This was taking long enough as it was and I have a general feeling, which is town. This is definitely shaded by wariness of my initial OMGUS reaction towards him.
Robz888:
I'm going with scum for similar reasons to GKrieg13.
Eevee:
I don't even know how to read this. Seems really neutral.
I think what I've learned from all of this is that I really don't know what's going on here, especially with regards to McGarnacle. I could see a scenario in which a fake Doctor claims to have protected Roadrunner because it'd be hard to prove it false; why would scum or any of the PRs (I'm assuming there's more than one left) have targeted him? The second part of that sentence hinges on the initial confusion as to why McGarnacle selected Roadrunner.
At any rate, my biggest scum read is on Roadrunner.
vote: Roadrunner
PPE: 2
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From stuff I've seen, I actually don't believe McGarnacle is really a doctor, or at least a town-aligned one. I really think there is someone in the game who could (maybe should) have counterclaimed, but it wouldn't have been a direct "no I'm the doctor" but rather more of a "I'm a role derived from the doctor and town probably wouldn't have both a vanilla doctor and the variation" type of counterclaim, which could be why that didn't happen. I really hate that he is leaving the game, because I actually wanted to see a bit more play out between them first, but I wanted to say this before he ends up getting replaced.
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Ok I'll get to the rest of my reread soon, I hadn't noticed the deadline being so close.
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I guess I forgot to put my money where my mouth was last night. vote: McG
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I guess I forgot to put my money where my mouth was last night. vote: McG
This seems very non-optimal until we get a replacement.
The deadline being in two days also not good with this in mind. Uhm.
I can't continue with my rereads tonight, but I'll get one or two more people read tomorrow. We need to start moving towards a lynch.
Also with plurality lynching, it feels like it's all the more important to have as many of us present during the deadline as possible unless we get a lynch through before that.
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Yeah voting McGonads when he is fully absent is bad play when there is a real chance he is the town doctor. We can get a better lynch than that.
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We need to start moving towards a lynch.
Aye aye, sir!
Vote: Robz
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Urgh.. re-reading takes forever, but I have my head back in this game again now.
@PPS, was my scum-trap suggestion too well-hidden, or just not a good idea in your opinion?
@gkrieg, your defence of McGaracle near the end of your big re-reads post at #1012 was that chasing an obvious non-scum-slip wasn't something a newbie!scum would do. However, the thing that put suspicion onto McG in the first place was that he's just too newbie-can't-be-scum to be believable anyway. Do you still feel your comment holds?
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I hate that McG is gone. But I logged in to say what I said and saw his post. I would agree that it is a bad play if there was a chance he was the doctor. However, I'm thoroughly convinced that he isn't. I don't care who LL gets to replace him, I don't believe anyone could possibly come in and change my mind about this.
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Do we know whether we'll have a replacement for McG before night time? That kind of matters.
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Do we know whether we'll have a replacement for McG before night time? That kind of matters.
I'm looking hard for replacement, sending pms to everyone who told they're interested in a game before. If the replacement will be found close to night I will prolong the deadline for 24 hours (so they could catch up). If the replacement won't be found, deadline won't be prolonged. Though the night won't end until I actually find someone.
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Do we know whether we'll have a replacement for McG before night time? That kind of matters.
I'm looking hard for replacement, sending pms to everyone who told they're interested in a game before. If the replacement will be found close to night I will prolong the deadline for 24 hours (so they could catch up). If the replacement won't be found, deadline won't be prolonged. Though the night won't end until I actually find someone.
Will the missing player change the number of votes needed for a majority lynch?
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Btw, I don't think there is plurality lynch today.
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Do we know whether we'll have a replacement for McG before night time? That kind of matters.
I'm looking hard for replacement, sending pms to everyone who told they're interested in a game before. If the replacement will be found close to night I will prolong the deadline for 24 hours (so they could catch up). If the replacement won't be found, deadline won't be prolonged. Though the night won't end until I actually find someone.
Will the missing player change the number of votes needed for a majority lynch?
No. Let's not panic, I'm actually quite sure I'll find someone soon.
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Btw, I don't think there is plurality lynch today.
6. Lynch rules vary by the number of players alive. With 10 or more players alive, the player with the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. Ties are broken by coin flip. With nine or fewer players alive, if a majority lynch is not reached by the deadline, no lynch occurs.
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Do we know whether we'll have a replacement for McG before night time? That kind of matters.
Vote: Gkrieg
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Oh man, plurality lynch is still in effect? Dislike. Well, I've made my case on gkrieg, but I don't exactly see everybody rushing aboard.
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Btw, I don't think there is plurality lynch today.
6. Lynch rules vary by the number of players alive. With 10 or more players alive, the player with the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. Ties are broken by coin flip. With nine or fewer players alive, if a majority lynch is not reached by the deadline, no lynch occurs.
Oh ok, I thought it was just more than 10.
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I'm not going to vote for gkrieg or Robz until g is done with his in progress rereads and Robz has a chance to reply, as long as he doesn't stall until right up to the deadline, that is. Although I still believe McG was a scum PR and am afraid of a repeat of what happened with Haddock in the last game. Anyone else who was in that game with me knows what I'm talking about.
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Dylan, the thing with McG is, it probably makes sense to keep him alive tonight at least. I don't know how much more I should say about that because I don't want to give the scum ideas, but we have a claimed PR in PPS and I really do believe him, and if we leave McG alive we offer the potential for night-protection for PPS. If that doesn't work out we can take a really serious look at McG tomorrow. And I say that as someone who has been pretty critical of McG's claim.
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Dylan, the thing with McG is, it probably makes sense to keep him alive tonight at least. I don't know how much more I should say about that because I don't want to give the scum ideas, but we have a claimed PR in PPS and I really do believe him, and if we leave McG alive we offer the potential for night-protection for PPS. If that doesn't work out we can take a really serious look at McG tomorrow. And I say that as someone who has been pretty critical of McG's claim.
I agree wholeheartedly.
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Dylan, the thing with McG is, it probably makes sense to keep him alive tonight at least. I don't know how much more I should say about that because I don't want to give the scum ideas, but we have a claimed PR in PPS and I really do believe him, and if we leave McG alive we offer the potential for night-protection for PPS. If that doesn't work out we can take a really serious look at McG tomorrow. And I say that as someone who has been pretty critical of McG's claim.
Once again, if I thought there was a chance he was telling the truth, I would absolutely agree with that! However, I don't, and so in this case I respectfully disagree.
PPE1
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And with regard to possibly protecting PPS, as I said earlier, I really think there is someone else who can do that.
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Dylan, the thing with McG is, it probably makes sense to keep him alive tonight at least. I don't know how much more I should say about that because I don't want to give the scum ideas, but we have a claimed PR in PPS and I really do believe him, and if we leave McG alive we offer the potential for night-protection for PPS. If that doesn't work out we can take a really serious look at McG tomorrow. And I say that as someone who has been pretty critical of McG's claim.
Once again, if I thought there was a chance he was telling the truth, I would absolutely agree with that! However, I don't, and so in this case I respectfully disagree.
PPE1
McGapinsurance claimed to have targeted RR. If he was a scum PR he would probably make a truthful claim in case he was tracked/etc. RR hasn't claimed to have suffered any ill effects so it's reasonable to assume he did doctor him at least for today.
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I have suffered no ill effects, as far as I know.
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Dylan, the thing with McG is, it probably makes sense to keep him alive tonight at least. I don't know how much more I should say about that because I don't want to give the scum ideas, but we have a claimed PR in PPS and I really do believe him, and if we leave McG alive we offer the potential for night-protection for PPS. If that doesn't work out we can take a really serious look at McG tomorrow. And I say that as someone who has been pretty critical of McG's claim.
Once again, if I thought there was a chance he was telling the truth, I would absolutely agree with that! However, I don't, and so in this case I respectfully disagree.
PPE1
McGapinsurance claimed to have targeted RR. If he was a scum PR he would probably make a truthful claim in case he was tracked/etc. RR hasn't claimed to have suffered any ill effects so it's reasonable to assume he did doctor him at least for today.
Could have given him an extra vote or something else like that the way you said I might have been when I was targeted.
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It's very unlikely there's anything that messes with voting. PPS planted that seed and we need to stop watering it!
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It's very unlikely there's anything that messes with voting. PPS planted that seed and we need to stop watering it!
Well, a scum RB is a real possibility (which I also mentioned). But we're talking about Dylan and RR being targeted. One of those was not the hypothetical scum RB.
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It's very unlikely there's anything that messes with voting. PPS planted that seed and we need to stop watering it!
Well, a scum RB is a real possibility (which I also mentioned). But we're talking about Dylan and RR being targeted. One of those was not the hypothetical scum RB.
A scum RB and a scum watcher would certainly seem reasonable to me.
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It's very unlikely there's anything that messes with voting. PPS planted that seed and we need to stop watering it!
Well, a scum RB is a real possibility (which I also mentioned). But we're talking about Dylan and RR being targeted. One of those was not the hypothetical scum RB.
A scum RB and a scum watcher would certainly seem reasonable to me.
And I actually am inclined to think McG is a RB.
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EFHW replaced McGarnacle.
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EFHW replaced McGarnacle.
Welcome to the game.
I now amend my statement to "I am inclined to believe EFHW is the scum RB."
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Welcome to the game, EFHW!
Dylan, so, you are absolutely 100% convinced McG/EFHW is scum. Let me ask you this... did you think McG/EFHW was lying yesterday? Or is this a new opinion you have? I can't recall what you said about McG/EFHW yesterday.
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I wasn't completely sure, but I was pretty sure one of Jake or McG was. I ended the day with my vote on McG if that says anything.
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Welcome to the game, EFHW!
Dylan, so, you are absolutely 100% convinced McG/EFHW is scum. Let me ask you this... did you think McG/EFHW was lying yesterday? Or is this a new opinion you have? I can't recall what you said about McG/EFHW yesterday.
And really, I would say I'm 95-99% sure. I know there is a very slight chance that I'm wrong, but I truly don't think I am; and if I am wrong, I willingly concede that I will have 0 credibility for the rest of the game.
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Thanks. In that case, I think I'll keep my vote where it is.
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Hi everyone. I really wasn't sure what my pm would say, but it turns out McGarnacle was/I am town, and he really did target RR! Go figure.
I've read most of the game, and I have a lot of townreads. Space, pps, Lekkit, Dylan, RR. Even Robz! Null on IDPTG. Not sure about gkrieg, and ... Eevee is my current main scumread. I will do targeted rereads on these last three before voting. I'm on phone, so hope I didn't forget anyone.
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you can hammer LL or EFHW
Just gonna leave that there... #jaketheprophet
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Ok now from #470.
I think all this conversation is very productive and also pretty funny, so I encourage it. I'd prefer to not lynch Jake today and see what happens later down the road, but we'll see how close we get to the deadline.
- Ver hedgy from RR. Prefers not to lynch Jake, but still sees that it might be viable down the road.
- I'm leaving out lots of what Calamitas and Jake said, because well, I think there are more important things to look at.
- Robz puts some pressure on Calamitas for saying that Jake had a 30% chance of claiming cop as scum. I don't think this really says anything, especially considering Jake was town anyway.
- PPs does some risk analysis thing as well. I don't think any of these things say that much about scum.
- I will point out in #497 and #499 I am trying to get Jake to play better and make people not want to lynch him so bad. I definitely would not have done that as scum.
- IDPTG then decides to vote for Jake. His post where he votes seems genuine.
- Then Jake self-votes and IDPTG calls it another point in the case against Jake.
- Ideologically I disagree with Robz that catching scum D1 is better than D2. I think often, there aren't enough interactions when scum gets lynched D1 to find the other scum. I have been bussed twice (I can definitely remember one, but I vaguely remember another) D1 and had my team get the victory.
From Town to Scum in order of scum factor:
PPS - IC
Dylan32 - Town vibes here
RR - no scum vibes, don't trust him either; won't lynch
Gkrieg - Want to trust but don't. He's not being outright scummy and he contributes and moves us forward. Won't lynch today.
The Nullbots:
IDPTG
McGenocide
Robz - getting confirmation bias, don't trust at all, otherwise pretty towny, it's D1 so can safely ignore today
Scum Squad:
Lekkit - don't think we've ever played a game, it may just be this, or his avatar but everything he says is read in a scum voice in my mind
Calamitas - notJake the fisherman
Jake - metatarsals
SA - the best lynch today. just feeling this one. maybe? not really? why not?
Absenteeism:
Eevee - c'mon was really looking forward to a reunion game.
- Reads list from PPS. He has quite a bit of scum reads and no real town reads. The most surprising one on here is his Robz read. I had the feeling that he was agreeing with Robz more than that read suggests.
The more I think about it, the more I like the Jake lynch.
He played Portal Mafia, got comfortable with the game, claimed VT and got lynched.
Now he's a big boy with a game under his belt, and he figured he could safely claim a PR here. What's a PR he's familiar with? Cop!
Then he has his self voting thing, which is super scummy and totally not cool if he's town.
Mod, was scum provided with fake flavor names?
- Interesting quote from RR. Why did he want to know if scum had fake flavor names?
- PPS says that the self-vote from Jake makes him think he is town.
- RR and I think the opposite
- SA really doesn't have that much to say. Everytime they say something, it isn't really about anyone in particular, or it isn't very strong.
- SA starts going against McGarnacle. in #567
- Lekkit gives a thoughtful post about not lynching Jake . #585 is also a reads list from him.
Vote Count 1.7
JakeTheBaseballGod22 (4): Robz888, Eevee, McGarnacle, IDontPlayThisGame
McGarnacle (6): SpaceAnemone, Lekkit, Calamitas, GKrieg13, JakeTheBaseballGod22, Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (1): pingpongsam
Not Voting (1): Roadrunner7671
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends Sunday Nov 20 at 1 pm, which is 8,5 hours from now.
- It is also interesting that this was the height of the McGarnacle wagon. Both towns are on it.
- Eevee comes back into the game at the end of the day and sounds like he is trying to contribute and scum hunt.
If someone plans on hammering me, please give me due warning. I have some things to say first.
- McGarnacle also kind of softs being a PR here.
Ok I got to #612 now.
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Hi everyone. I really wasn't sure what my pm would say, but it turns out McGarnacle was/I am town, and he really did target RR! Go figure.
I've read most of the game, and I have a lot of townreads. Space, pps, Lekkit, Dylan, RR. Even Robz! Null on IDPTG. Not sure about gkrieg, and ... Eevee is my current main scumread. I will do targeted rereads on these last three before voting. I'm on phone, so hope I didn't forget anyone.
How is Robz a townread?
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He seems more relaxed, less crafty than in the game just finished.
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- Calamitas gives a good analysis of McGarnacle in #612. McGarnacle has multiple points where he tries to be very newbie.
Hey guys, I will switch to McG in order to get a lynch if that's what's needed. I don't really have strong feelings about McG, and have no problem lynching him, except I would vastly prefer a Jake lynch.
I want to rage vote Calamitas for assigning nonsense statistics to all of this, but it's too late for any other wagons I think.
Come to think of it, I'm worried we had too few wagons today. If Jake is scum he did a really effective job of confining the conversation to just him. This is a problem we will continue to have tomorrow if we don't lynch him.
- Robz says that he will lynch McGarnacle for a lynch, but that he doesn't really want to. I just can't shake this Robz scum thing, so this gives scum points to McGarnacle.
I think not knowing what the doctor does is solid evidence of not being the doctor.
- Then McGarnacle claims doctor and says he will self-target. Robz chooses not to hammer him, even though he says McGarnacle must be fake claiming and Robz already had intent.
I can say with close to 100% accuracy that there is scum in Jake and McGraphingpaper
- @RR What made you change your mind on McGarnacle?
I think McGarnacle has been scummier so he seems more likely to be scum to me.
- Also contrary to what Robz is saying, I tried to get McGarnacle lynched much more than I tried to get Jake lynched. It wasn't until right before the deadline that I switched to Jake.
Doctor is such an awesome role to draw, especially for a newer player who doesn't maybe realize how short their lives can be, seems really scummy to not realize you couldnt target yourself.
Definitely no time for a third party candidate in this situation anymore, just got to pick the better risk-reward of these two. Also if we assume one but not both are scum (seems pretty safe?), it's going to be so beneficial to analyze the wagons. Hitting scum after all this would be such a jackpot.
- This is something to look at from Eevee if McGarnacle/EFHW flips town as well.
This actually does explain how cop!Jake would know doc!McG can't self target.
Now I think they are both town
- Robz then cools down on lynching either of them.
- Then it was after all of the drama of McGarnacle claiming and people pointing out that there probably isn't a doctor and a cop in the same setup, that I wanted to lynch one of Jake, McGarnacle. I now remember why I went for Jake's lynch. McGarnacle had the townie moment where he realized that he could only target people that were a different card type. So if you can't have a doctor and a cop in the same setup (and McGarnacle could've targeted Jake in this one), Jake had to be scum. But it is very different for a vanilla cop.
- Then from that point forward to the end of the day I push for a Jake lynch. I actually think that McGarnacle is pretty townie from the end of the day, and the other two wagons were on town. That changes a lot of the analysis I was doing. Scum don't really care where their vote lands, when all of the major wagons D1 were on town.
I feel like RR is scum from all this
WHAT? HAVE YOU EVER, EVER, EVER SEEN ME AS SCUM?
I'll talk about this later. Let's lynch Jake
No, we're not talking about this later. This game has had too much stuff happen for you to waste time trying to get a RR wagon going.
You're townreading me and that's that. I'm not doing this every single game.
- Then I have this little "moment" with RR. I'm not sure if he is more likely to do this as scum or as town.
Vote: Jake
I'm done walking on eggshells
- Also an interesting quote from RR that I'm not sure what it means
Shoot.. I'm barely here and going to be side-tracked at the deadline. Can someone who hasn't got a major wagon sum things up for me? Really sorry!!!
- SA comes in at the end of the day, but they were busy, so this doesn't mean much either.
Woah, sorry guys. I had NO IDEA about the plurality lynch thing, don't think I've ever played with that. And actually might have handled this much differently had I been aware. That's my screw up, really sorry.
How would you have handled this differently?
I thought we needed 7 to lynch, which limited us to the people with some traction: jake, McG, and calamitas
- This is townie from Robz.
- Actually Lekkit comes in from time to time to say that he think that the major wagons are town, but doesn't contribute much to the end of the day. Slight scum points to him.
I'm awarding huge town points to RR for being here the whole time
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate this, but that really doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't I be here as scum?
Well, it's a thing: scum wanting to avoid being part of the really difficult end of day decisions. Scum just want anmislynch to go through without having to do anything to engineer it. Obviously sometimes scum wants and needs to be around but early on this is less likely. I've found people who stick it out like you did are more often town.
- I still don't think you should give RR town points for being there at the end of the day.
And that is the end of D1.
Conclusions:
- I would definitely be fine with lynching SA. My scum read on Robz loosens a bit from his EoD interactions. Eevee gets a scum read from me for trying to keep the wagons going on Jake and McGarnacle before the end of the day. Knowing that Jake and Calamitas were town make him seem much scummier for doing this.
- McGarnacle/EFHW seem town from the claim. It isn't something that I think McGarnacle would pull off as mafia, so town from me.
- I'm also weary about Lekkit. He seems sensible, but I could see him being scum, and he is one of my null reads that I feel like I should have a better read on at this point.
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Dang, Unvote
Starting to wonder if maybe Gkrieg and Robz could both be town.
Remind me again why Calamitas got popped instead of McGloomy.
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Also, super jazzed to have EFHW on board.
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Expect more from me soon but I share gkrieg's sentiment about Lekkit, in particular.
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So Gkreig brought up three things that I should reply to:
- Interesting quote from RR. Why did he want to know if scum had fake flavor names?
Jake doesn't play Dominion, and he would've probably struggled to come up with a fake flavor name, as it would've had to have been an existing and 'good' Dominion card.
- @RR What made you change your mind on McGarnacle?
Mostly his claim of targeting me. It was quirky and bold as scum that I just don't see noob!scum!McGranola trying to pull that off.
- Also an interesting quote from RR that I'm not sure what it means
That referred to me not wanting to lynch Jake because he was Jake, basically.
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Vote: SpaceAnenome
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- Interesting quote from RR. Why did he want to know if scum had fake flavor names?
Jake doesn't play Dominion, and he would've probably struggled to come up with a fake flavor name, as it would've had to have been an existing and 'good' Dominion card.
Not entirely convinced. It's easy enough to look up "best dominion cards" and pick one from the list. For me, Qvist's list on the wiki was the first result for that search.
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Jet lagged, will say more tomorrow.
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Ok now to a D2 reread:
- I vote PPS for the PR thing about being an action card. Now I think I understand him better.
- I am still floored that McGarnacle doctored RR. That just makes no sense to me. I don't think RR has ever died N1 without having claimed.
BTW, I had unexpected personal stuff come up at deadline. I was swayed off Jake way earlier than that, though. I would have pushed for McGillicuddy or SA had I been there.
- @PPS - So you kind of go back and forth on SA. You vote for them D1, but then say that you did it just to see if it would get traction, then you say you would vote for them again, then they are the go to vote just now?
So, the Doctor wasn't killed and he Doctored about the dumbest possible target. Meanwhile the claimed VT was killed.
Where in any of that is a reason to believe McGladwrap?
- Also @PPS, what do you feel about McGarnacle from the end of D1, which was in my last reread? I quoted many of his stuff there, or at least referenced the post numbers.
- in #855 SA goes for PPS saying that he is scummy.
So after Jake's flip I really did think we were going to wake up to a dead doctor... um, I mean, I guess if McG is town maybe they left him alive for the WIFOM? But then why kill Calamitas, a claimed VT?
This is a really unorthodox move that I think points to a newbie scum team? Or one that includes McG. Or both.
I want to say this means McG is scum, but of course if he's not, scum left him alive for just this reason.
- Just for a conspiracy theory, the scum team is SA/Robz/Eevee, and they are trying to frame all of the newbies by killing a little strangely.
- @EFHW - Did McGarnacle talk in his personal QT anything about why he chose to doctor RR?
BTW, I had unexpected personal stuff come up at deadline. I was swayed off Jake way earlier than that, though. I would have pushed for McGillicuddy or SA had I been there.
Fair enough, but had more people been there, yeah, we would have done something else--it was exactly because not enough people were around that we had little choice but to lynch Jake and hope. The fact that Jake personally gave us the best reason not to go with McG didn't help. (Also not helping: me not realizing about the plurality lynch rules.)
What's your case on SA?
I didn't rightly have a case on SA. Seems an odd question considering I am voting McGlamorous. I voted SA yesterday strictly to draw fire off of Jake. My whole intent yesterday was to draw enough suspicion around Jake that maybe scum would spare him (esp if they had a RB) in the night. I didn't think we could actually get a mislynch through on a claimed cop. There was a point in the middle of it I thought he really was fakeclaiming but when that tide turned for me I was pretty clear about it by saying specifically that and voting elsewhere. The whole thing yesterday was unsubstantiated votes so I proved a point by making one of my own and drew zero fire for it which I thought was fascinating.
Right now I can't tell if SA is driving on me because they've seen me slip up as scum before and is excited that it has somehow happened again or if SA may actually be scum. My only read in that regard is I've seen scum!SA and it's a feeling more than anything. SA doesn't play any traditional scum meta that we are going to detect by conventional reads. That driving on a super flimsy idea I somehow slipped feels like a deflection from the analysis I'm making on McGrandpa. If McGasp is scum this could be partnering. Considering we overwhelmingly lynched our cop yesterday I'm not putting it past us to latch onto something this abstract and ignore the obvious WTF about last night's happenings.
Speaking of last night's happenings I'm still waiting to hear what Dylan thought about what happened last night.
- Still more about my question to PPS.
Okay, do you have any suggestions for why scum allowed him to live and instead targeted a claimed VT?
Yes. I don't think scum did it.
Jake was a PR who would have been aware of the type restrictions, no?
My point exactly.
- Lekkit is claiming that a vig killed Calamitas. So does that mean that McGarnacle actually doctored the correct person? I find that highly unlikely.
Wow. Read through the end of the day discussion that led to the Jake lynch the other day and really didn't like the way that went down, although maybe I just didn't like it because I was able to immediately see the results as I read it. I was a little bit surprised at his flip, but obviously calamitas's nk was a total shock! I can't put my finger on an exact reason, but I actually sort of still believe pps and his claim, although he is far from the IC he could have been if Jake had been scum. Everything in me wants to believe McDonalds is scum, but if I remember correctly, I think I said something to the effect that if McG survived, almost nothing could convince me he was town. I could see an experienced scum remembering that and banking on me (or someone else) driving a mislynch.
But the RR doctor claim just confuses me. With Jake flipping cop, RR is at best null to me, and certainly not towny enough to think scum would target them.
PPE3
- This post just feels scummy to me. Some scum points in Dylan's direction.
Currently, I'd be fine with lynching either Robz or PPS, as I think they look the scummiest.
Is this still true? I think I have a couple of proposals for things that might help test PPS a little, though nothing is too conclusive.
For one thing, he's clearly waiting for a comment from Dylan about something to do with his PR in N1. If there's a good town motive for that, it will look better, but Dylan doesn't seem to have commented on anything PPS has said.
As a second thing, if PPS has a PR, he's quite possibly got a similar description to McGarnacle's. If PPS claims his card-type-related restriction/relevance, and McGarnacle is able to verify that it's compatible with his understanding of how his own restriction/relevance works, then there's slightly stronger evidence for PPS being town. I suggest PPS full-claiming his (minus the part about what his actual role is) first, and then having McGarnacle follow up with his impression of anything he sees as scummy in what PPS says. I suggest that specific order for the same reason PPS is currently voting for me.
What do the rest of you think of that proposal? Obviously there are a couple of failure modes, but it's the closest thing I can find so far to an exploitable verification mechanism in this setup.
Quickly reading from phone, but this post seems VERY towny.
Also fine with the proposal, not really good with this setup assumption guesswork stuff though.
- I was ironically going to say the exact opposite. I think scum super wants to know this information, especially because multiple town PRs have already said something about only being able to target not their type people.
- RR's #957 is just weird. I don't think McGarnacle saying that he hopes scum didn't have a good Thanksgiving is scummy at all.
- If anyone wants to reread SA, to back up the feeling I have that most of their posts have nothing to do with people in the game, but that most are about setup things. I just feel like I have no idea of any of their reads, and they blend so much into the background it is terrifying.
Can we put Gkrieg in the lynch pool? All I remember him doing was going after me...
- Why is this a valid reason to put me in the lynchpool?
- Also I'm pretty sure that vote altering is strictly RMM.
- PPS keeps pushing for SA without presenting a real case. It is really bothering me. He keeps saying that there will never be a case on SA, but keeps putting them in his lynch pool. like in #988
- I would actually argue that messing with votes is strictly RMM if you don't state it in a semi-open setup. It just messes too much with traditional mafia.
- I actually don't really like #997 and #998 from Eevee. Mainly the pressure vote on Robz just seems weird. But his next few posts are just really nice. I think I just don't know how to read Eevee.
Ok so now I'm pretty caught up.
vote: SA
I think their partners are Eevee and maybe one of Robz/RR, but I'm much more confident in SA and Eevee than the other ones.
I feel pretty townie about McGarnacle/EFHW, PPS, IDPTG
nully, but could be scum is Lekkit, Dylan
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Vote Count 2.4
Robz888 (1): Eevee
GKrieg13 (1): Robz888
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Roadrunner7671
RoadRunner7671 (1): IDontPlayThisGame
EFHW (1): Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (2): pingpongsam, GKrieg13
Not Voting (3): EFHW, SpaceAnemone, Lekkit
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The day ends on Thursday Dec 1, 3 pm
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I FEEL like SA is scum. Everyone else keeps getting the same vibe. That no one can make a solid case and there's no polarizing posts to work for or against them is telling. Finally, votes on them go nowhere. Feels like scum.
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- I would definitely be fine with lynching SA. My scum read on Robz loosens a bit from his EoD interactions. Eevee gets a scum read from me for trying to keep the wagons going on Jake and McGarnacle before the end of the day. Knowing that Jake and Calamitas were town make him seem much scummier for doing this.
I thought we needed 7 to lynch, which limited us to the people with some traction: jake, McG, and calamitas
- This is townie from Robz.
Aren't you giving Robz town points here for a thing you are giving me scum points for in the same post?
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I meant to start rereading Robz the next day when I woke up, so the pressure vote wasn't meant to be on him for this long (I would have either "for real" voted for him or voted elsewhere). I just think it's anti-town to not have your vote on somewhere.
Rereading Robz and SA now ->
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SA first:
Their style feels very different start of day 1. I know I'm still getting called friendly (I do try to be nice), but each of SA's first 15 posts has an emoticon on them, most also a compliment to someone and/or a joke.
Their first real "game" post is #16:
After a more of a re-read, I'd like to vote: McGarnacle.
Yeah that seems...odd
I'm not getting strong scum reads on anyone yet, but McGarnacle's set himself us as the innocent bewildered newbie, which was exactly what I did when I was scum. Vets have a habit of believing it from a newbie, and there are lots of extreme vets around. There's another thing, too, but ask me again sometime later in D1.
Did you ever expand on this, SA?
So now two of the vets are sticking by their guns and voting Jake? I dislike the level of conviction there, given that Jake's meta is to play annoyingly (lots of careless low-content posts, very little punctuation, lots of attention-grabbing behaviour). I'm reasonably happy to vote him in general, but I wanted to do better than that if evidence presented itself.
Knowing Jake's flip, this looks like scum trying to distance themselves from a town lynch while simultaneously giving their implied consent. I think this is the scummiest post I've come across in these rereads this far.
If we flip Jake and he is scum me and Robz do earn quasi IC status imho.
This is just a little sad in retrospect.
I only have 5 mins, but I really want to address the Calamitas suspicion a bit.
The comments of "I don't get the math stuff" or "maths is scummy" is utter nonsense. In my post at #484, I specifically asked Calamitas to do exactly the computation he did, because I'm really struggling for time over this weekend, and I trusted him to get it right more than the rest of you! And yes, I know there was suspicion on him from the weird request for Jake to name his card (and I agree it is potentially scummy), but being able to calculate the probability of Jake being scum given that he'd claimed cop is not indicative of alignment.
As for the numbers themselves, yes, there's a really high chance that Jake is scum, but I agree with Calamitas that the possibility of losing a cop risky, especially if we have other PRs who can help us, so I'm really hesitant to commit to that lynch. I'm going to be away for a few hours now, but I'll try really hard to get back in time for the deadline, and I would consider shifting my vote if needed.
This on the other hand seems townie, trying to defend the person who flipped town.
As for the numbers themselves, yes, there's a really high chance that Jake is scum, but I agree with Calamitas that the possibility of losing a cop risky, especially if we have other PRs who can help us, so I'm really hesitant to commit to that lynch. I'm going to be away for a few hours now, but I'll try really hard to get back in time for the deadline, and I would consider shifting my vote if needed.
This is mostly a point for future reference, but isn't saying "I don't believe in this lynch but I guess I'll join if we don't find anything else before the deadline" pretty bad for town, as scum can now just make sure the target (Jake in this case) stays the biggest wagon and they have SA to hammer him eventually (or SA is scum, and wants the lynch through without looking too bad, or wants to signal their partners that they'll push the lynch through if need be).
SA's attempts to catch up during deadline seem sincere enough (I know they can be faked, just want to be fair and note all things I find noteworthy), and them going for McGEFHW is in line with their earlier play.
All in all, while SA has a reasonable post counts and a lot of longer posts, the majority of it is setup stuff, or about McG. I sort of had the feeling that they had been and commenting all the time, but after rereading, the whole body of work feels.. non-committal? The position on the Jake lynch is right where I would expect scum to fall, and it's starting to look like McG was town, so the game-long pushing for him doesn't look any better either.
Vote: SA
I still want to reread Robz and Dylan (who I think has started to look scummier and scummier day 2, but was a strong town read day 1), but it feels relieving to come out with a scumread from one of these rereads, having mostly read people I had a scummy feeling earlier and coming out of it leaning town, I was starting to feel like everything just looks towny to me.
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Vote: PPS
D2 started out so well: we had night-time evidence, we had potential scum slips to analyse, and we had an unexpected night death to explain... and then somehow all of the Americans went away for thanksgiving and the whole lot of evidence just conveniently got forgotten about, and conversation reverted to much less grounded speculation. Who was driving that? PPS was posting a lot at that time, and was even gracious enough to reduce my scum status in his eyes very slightly at #993 because I'd posted less in this game while the tense M88 lylo played out.
Now take a look at PPS's interactions/voting pattern with McEFHW. He wasn't on that wagon at all D1, and yet votes McG very early in D2, very shortly after gkrieg starts applying vote pressure after PPS's non-VT slip. At #866 he even suggests that I'm possibly partnering with McG, casting the pressure on him as a distraction from actual scum-hunting in the McG direction.
So I had a plan to test out McGarnacle's claim and PPS's claim, which I tried laying very subtly at #928. At this point, I was quite suspicious of both of them, actually, but I decided to frame it as a PPS test of McG, because I thought PPS would pick up on it much better. Here's my exact wording:
As a second thing, if PPS has a PR, he's quite possibly got a similar description to McGarnacle's. If PPS claims his card-type-related restriction/relevance, and McGarnacle is able to verify that it's compatible with his understanding of how his own restriction/relevance works, then there's slightly stronger evidence for PPS being town. I suggest PPS full-claiming his (minus the part about what his actual role is) first, and then having McGarnacle follow up with his impression of anything he sees as scummy in what PPS says. I suggest that specific order for the same reason PPS is currently voting for me.
I was trying to steer PPS to making a false claim about his restrictions, in order to test McGarnacle's claim, and force the two of them to have a conversation that would likely clear one or both, or at least give us a 50-50 shot at lynching scum. If you look specifically at the wording of the last sentence, "the same reason PPS is currently voting me" was meant to be "in order to draw scums out", since he'd admitted that as a primary voting reason earlier, and I hoped it would be too subtly for McG to pick up on.
Anyway, like the earlier interesting stuff just gets talked past and ignored. When I explicitly pointed out I'd been trying to hint about a way to trap scum, this is the response I got from PPS, again, talking past the actual point, and throwing in speculation where he could have taken action:
Seems like there's a lot of wild night-action speculation going on that isn't particularly grounded in reality, and is also kind of a distraction for catching scum.
The N1 action stuff is a way of catching scums! My suggestion to PPS earlier was meant to help him build up a scum trap, but he clearly missed my ultra-subtle hints :-(
For all we know Dylan is hated or has a double vote or something he just doesn't know about that scum hexed him with. My imagination says all the scums have powers. My darkest corner of my imagination wonders if scum can benefit from targeting partners.
Anyway, with EFHW taking over from McGarnacle and reading everything fresh with a much more experienced pair of eyes, I no longer think the trap idea is feasible, hence laying it out here. I do really think there's a mis-match between things PPS is saying and the things he's actually doing, and he's usually someone who makes a big deal out of that distinction.
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McEFHW.
That's really witty!
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Vote: Space I guess. I'm not exactly convinced but I do think PPS is town, and Space putting together an elaborate OMGUS case in response gives me a bad feeling.
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- I would definitely be fine with lynching SA. My scum read on Robz loosens a bit from his EoD interactions. Eevee gets a scum read from me for trying to keep the wagons going on Jake and McGarnacle before the end of the day. Knowing that Jake and Calamitas were town make him seem much scummier for doing this.
I thought we needed 7 to lynch, which limited us to the people with some traction: jake, McG, and calamitas
- This is townie from Robz.
Aren't you giving Robz town points here for a thing you are giving me scum points for in the same post?
Not really. I'm giving Robz town points for looking back and saying that it is too bad that we limited ourselves to people with traction. You were directly trying to push the lynch onto those who had traction. He is lamenting that it was the case, you were actively making it the case.
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All in all, while SA has a reasonable post counts and a lot of longer posts, the majority of it is setup stuff, or about McG. I sort of had the feeling that they had been and commenting all the time, but after rereading, the whole body of work feels.. non-committal? The position on the Jake lynch is right where I would expect scum to fall, and it's starting to look like McG was town, so the game-long pushing for him doesn't look any better either.
This is exactly what I was trying to say up above. They read as very non-committal. They talk about things without actually taking a side on most of them. Like I still don't know where SA's reads are.
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Their style feels very different start of day 1. I know I'm still getting called friendly (I do try to be nice), but each of SA's first 15 posts has an emoticon on them, most also a compliment to someone and/or a joke.
I'm like that IRL too.. it would just feel too fake not to do it in here as well. Check any one of my other games to see.
I'm not getting strong scum reads on anyone yet, but McGarnacle's set himself us as the innocent bewildered newbie, which was exactly what I did when I was scum. Vets have a habit of believing it from a newbie, and there are lots of extreme vets around. There's another thing, too, but ask me again sometime later in D1.
Did you ever expand on this, SA?
Yes, but it came to nothing:
The additional observation I promised at the time I made my initial points was that up till then, PPS had not started his name-calling of McGarnacle at all, with reasonably many posts under his belt. Given how much he'd loved doing it at every other opportunity in the past, I found that weird, and wondered whether it could be a partner tell. Now we're further in, he's out-doing himself on new nicknames for McGarnacle, so that's less interesting.
So now two of the vets are sticking by their guns and voting Jake? I dislike the level of conviction there, given that Jake's meta is to play annoyingly (lots of careless low-content posts, very little punctuation, lots of attention-grabbing behaviour). I'm reasonably happy to vote him in general, but I wanted to do better than that if evidence presented itself.
Knowing Jake's flip, this looks like scum trying to distance themselves from a town lynch while simultaneously giving their implied consent. I think this is the scummiest post I've come across in these rereads this far.
He annoys me.. I wanted to ignore him for a while and focus of finding the other scum(s) in the game rather than having to engage with that. As scum!Robz observed in the mafia QT of the game that just finished, town!Jake is great for scum because his presence distracts us from useful stuff, so if you're going to scumread me for anything, it should be for being willing to ignore Jake rather than taking him out at the first opportunity.
I only have 5 mins, but I really want to address the Calamitas suspicion a bit.
The comments of "I don't get the math stuff" or "maths is scummy" is utter nonsense. In my post at #484, I specifically asked Calamitas to do exactly the computation he did, because I'm really struggling for time over this weekend, and I trusted him to get it right more than the rest of you! And yes, I know there was suspicion on him from the weird request for Jake to name his card (and I agree it is potentially scummy), but being able to calculate the probability of Jake being scum given that he'd claimed cop is not indicative of alignment.
As for the numbers themselves, yes, there's a really high chance that Jake is scum, but I agree with Calamitas that the possibility of losing a cop risky, especially if we have other PRs who can help us, so I'm really hesitant to commit to that lynch. I'm going to be away for a few hours now, but I'll try really hard to get back in time for the deadline, and I would consider shifting my vote if needed.
This on the other hand seems townie, trying to defend the person who flipped town.
I'd like to draw attention to the "set-up stuff is scummy" line of argument, which is really annoying... understanding the probabilities is something Calamitas seems to appreciate more than the rest of you, and I didn't like that some of you were proposing that it's a scum trait.
All in all, while SA has a reasonable post counts and a lot of longer posts, the majority of it is setup stuff, or about McG.
Oh look, another "set-up stuff is scummy" implication. Did you miss my entire case above about how PPS could have helped use set-up stuff to help us catch McG out and then didn't? And to you I'm the one looking scummy on the back of that?
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Vote: PPS
D2 started out so well: we had night-time evidence, we had potential scum slips to analyse, and we had an unexpected night death to explain... and then somehow all of the Americans went away for thanksgiving and the whole lot of evidence just conveniently got forgotten about, and conversation reverted to much less grounded speculation. Who was driving that? PPS was posting a lot at that time, and was even gracious enough to reduce my scum status in his eyes very slightly at #993 because I'd posted less in this game while the tense M88 lylo played out.
What evidence just conveniently got forgotten about? And what is the much less grounded speculation you are talking about?
Now take a look at PPS's interactions/voting pattern with McEFHW. He wasn't on that wagon at all D1, and yet votes McG very early in D2, very shortly after gkrieg starts applying vote pressure after PPS's non-VT slip. At #866 he even suggests that I'm possibly partnering with McG, casting the pressure on him as a distraction from actual scum-hunting in the McG direction.
So I had a plan to test out McGarnacle's claim and PPS's claim, which I tried laying very subtly at #928. At this point, I was quite suspicious of both of them, actually, but I decided to frame it as a PPS test of McG, because I thought PPS would pick up on it much better. Here's my exact wording:
As a second thing, if PPS has a PR, he's quite possibly got a similar description to McGarnacle's. If PPS claims his card-type-related restriction/relevance, and McGarnacle is able to verify that it's compatible with his understanding of how his own restriction/relevance works, then there's slightly stronger evidence for PPS being town. I suggest PPS full-claiming his (minus the part about what his actual role is) first, and then having McGarnacle follow up with his impression of anything he sees as scummy in what PPS says. I suggest that specific order for the same reason PPS is currently voting for me.
I was trying to steer PPS to making a false claim about his restrictions, in order to test McGarnacle's claim, and force the two of them to have a conversation that would likely clear one or both, or at least give us a 50-50 shot at lynching scum. If you look specifically at the wording of the last sentence, "the same reason PPS is currently voting me" was meant to be "in order to draw scums out", since he'd admitted that as a primary voting reason earlier, and I hoped it would be too subtly for McG to pick up on.
Do you really think after the EoD McGarnacle had that they could be scum?
Anyway, like the earlier interesting stuff just gets talked past and ignored. When I explicitly pointed out I'd been trying to hint about a way to trap scum, this is the response I got from PPS, again, talking past the actual point, and throwing in speculation where he could have taken action:
Seems like there's a lot of wild night-action speculation going on that isn't particularly grounded in reality, and is also kind of a distraction for catching scum.
The N1 action stuff is a way of catching scums! My suggestion to PPS earlier was meant to help him build up a scum trap, but he clearly missed my ultra-subtle hints :-(
For all we know Dylan is hated or has a double vote or something he just doesn't know about that scum hexed him with. My imagination says all the scums have powers. My darkest corner of my imagination wonders if scum can benefit from targeting partners.
Anyway, with EFHW taking over from McGarnacle and reading everything fresh with a much more experienced pair of eyes, I no longer think the trap idea is feasible, hence laying it out here. I do really think there's a mis-match between things PPS is saying and the things he's actually doing, and he's usually someone who makes a big deal out of that distinction.
Could you maybe point out some instances of this mismatch?
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Oh look, another "set-up stuff is scummy" implication. Did you miss my entire case above about how PPS could have helped use set-up stuff to help us catch McG out and then didn't? And to you I'm the one looking scummy on the back of that?
Setup stuff isn't scummy. It's that you almost exclusively talk about setup stuff that it becomes scummy. I mean you could reread yourself, but you don't give very many reads. You don't take positions on issues that are coming up. But you spend the majority of your time talking about setup stuff. Setup stuff is important when you have lots of claims (which we kinda did), but they don't replace actual reads, especially when you don't have claims from everyone. The stuff that Calamitas did came to the conclusion that Jake was probably scum from his claim. We know now that it was wrong, which means that all of the probability stuff (while fine when looking at multiple claims or conflicting claims) was really just a distraction, and added to a case on a town PR.
I think the fact that PPS didn't use setup stuff to help us catch McGarnacle isn't that scummy. He has proven many times before that he isn't a very setupy person, and that is fine.
I'll try to say this in a shorter version, setup stuff itself is not scummy, not giving reads and appearing more active than you are by talking about setup stuff almost exclusively is pretty scummy.
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Like I still don't know where SA's reads are.
I've been overt enough about scumreads on McGarnacle and PPS and townreads on you and Lekkit. Pretty sure my attitude towards Robz with his "I'm so confused" entry to D2 to mirror PPSs shows I'm not really on board with him either.. I really liked your sarcasm on that front at #877.
Dylan is null to mild scum, and is the player bothering me the most outside of the {McG, PPS, Robz} set. There's something fishy going on with the nighttime stuff, and PPS is still sitting on hidden info there, but the fact that Dylan is unable to explain but is claimed by PPS to have been targeted could be constructed to make him look townier-than-not. His wild speculation that has the NK and doctor targeting him in N1 just seems too far-fetched to be plausible.
RR is someone I find hard to read, and Eevee is new to me but seems like a slightly more reasonable version of Robz. IDPTG is so null I had to go and look up who the final player I couldn't think of was.
PPE 2
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RR is someone I find hard to read, and Eevee is new to me but seems like a slightly more reasonable version of Robz. IDPTG is so null I had to go and look up who the final player I couldn't think of was.
PPE 2
Oh if I wasn't already voting for you I definitely would now. I am already the most reasonable version of myself! What is even meant by this?
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Like I still don't know where SA's reads are.
I've been overt enough about scumreads on McGarnacle and PPS and townreads on you and Lekkit. Pretty sure my attitude towards Robz with his "I'm so confused" entry to D2 to mirror PPSs shows I'm not really on board with him either.. I really liked your sarcasm on that front at #877.
Dylan is null to mild scum, and is the player bothering me the most outside of the {McG, PPS, Robz} set. There's something fishy going on with the nighttime stuff, and PPS is still sitting on hidden info there, but the fact that Dylan is unable to explain but is claimed by PPS to have been targeted could be constructed to make him look townier-than-not. His wild speculation that has the NK and doctor targeting him in N1 just seems too far-fetched to be plausible.
RR is someone I find hard to read, and Eevee is new to me but seems like a slightly more reasonable version of Robz. IDPTG is so null I had to go and look up who the final player I couldn't think of was.
PPE 2
My "wild speculation" wasn't primarily that I had been targeted by both. It Was that someone besides rr had been, and that it might have been me given the fact pps claimed I was targeted.
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There's so much content to digest here! I think I'll do my own rereads now that I've read other people's comments.
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Ok, I decided to start with SA because some cases have been made against them. I don't see it AT ALL. They seem very internally consistent and actively testing theories, totally on top of what people are saying and why with reasonable approaches. I know they are a talented scum player, but we can't suspect people solely on the basis that they are good! I'll reread Eevee next, since he saw fit to vote SA based on his reread.
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RR is someone I find hard to read, and Eevee is new to me but seems like a slightly more reasonable version of Robz. IDPTG is so null I had to go and look up who the final player I couldn't think of was.
PPE 2
Oh if I wasn't already voting for you I definitely would now. I am already the most reasonable version of myself! What is even meant by this?
I actually don't think you've been very reasonable this game. Day 1 was basically "VOTE JAKE! NO MATTER WHAT!" Day two has been "VOTE MCEFHW! OR SA!" I can't recall much else of what you've actually said. I'll look extra when I do my reread of the day.
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RR is someone I find hard to read, and Eevee is new to me but seems like a slightly more reasonable version of Robz. IDPTG is so null I had to go and look up who the final player I couldn't think of was.
PPE 2
Oh if I wasn't already voting for you I definitely would now. I am already the most reasonable version of myself! What is even meant by this?
I actually don't think you've been very reasonable this game. Day 1 was basically "VOTE JAKE! NO MATTER WHAT!" Day two has been "VOTE MCEFHW! OR SA!" I can't recall much else of what you've actually said. I'll look extra when I do my reread of the day.
Please do, since that's a really crude and indeed flat-out inaccurate summation of my contributions to this game.
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Can someone explain why the calculations Calamitas did make any sense? It was a bunch of handwaving to get probabilities and then applying them to get results. Given where the probabilities came from (thin air), I have trouble seeing that method as anything even close to reliable. It's been bothering me for a while and now that it got mentioned again I felt like bringing it up.
Since I'm asking questions, can I get definitions on RMM and IC? I can't find RMM and I looked up IC on mafiascum but they have it as a role in Newbie games.
PPE: 1
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Can someone explain why the calculations Calamitas did make any sense? It was a bunch of handwaving to get probabilities and then applying them to get results. Given where the probabilities came from (thin air), I have trouble seeing that method as anything even close to reliable. It's been bothering me for a while and now that it got mentioned again I felt like bringing it up.
Since I'm asking questions, can I get definitions on RMM and IC? I can't find RMM and I looked up IC on mafiascum but they have it as a role in Newbie games.
PPE: 1
RMM = Role Madness Mafia. Everyone or mostly everyone is a PR.
IC = innocent child. In newbie type games there is a formal IC that the mod announces is for sure town. We have been using it to mean someone who has fairly conclusively been shown to be town.
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IC is Innocent Child, someone mod-confirmed to be town (also used to refer to someone widely considered to be town).
RMM is Role Madness Mafia (is it? something like that). Basically a mafia game where the setup can be really wacky.
People don't really do bayesian probabilities for mafia exactly for the reason you stated - the stuff that comes out is only as good as the numbers you put in. I can see it being useful for figuring things out though, I don't think he meant it to be the end of all discussion.
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Please do, since that's a really crude and indeed flat-out inaccurate summation of my contributions to this game.
This is very true and I'd like to take back what I said. However, it was what I took away from your contributions so far.
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Can someone explain why the calculations Calamitas did make any sense? It was a bunch of handwaving to get probabilities and then applying them to get results. Given where the probabilities came from (thin air), I have trouble seeing that method as anything even close to reliable. It's been bothering me for a while and now that it got mentioned again I felt like bringing it up.
Since I'm asking questions, can I get definitions on RMM and IC? I can't find RMM and I looked up IC on mafiascum but they have it as a role in Newbie games.
PPE: 1
I suggested running some numbers back at post #464, along with some gut feelings about what those numbers might be. It's easy to put relatively simple numbers on things like the likelihood of a player being a cop or a scum, and the likelihood of each of those claiming a cop. Calamitas' model didn't account for the possibility of multiple cops, or the possibility that non-cop towns might claim cop, but those are both low probabilities anyway. Bayes' Theorem then tells you how to convert those sorts of numbers into the posterior probability that someone claiming cop really is a cop, or might be a scum.
People's gut reads are in general really bad at stuff like that, which is why it's good to have maths to use as a sanity check. It's a common problem in things like medical tests, where the probability of you having a certain disease can actually be really quite low even if you have a positive test result, in cases where the disease in question has a low incidence rate and the false positive rate of the test is not ultra-high -- highly trained doctors frequently get caught out interpreting stuff like that.
Your other questions seem to have been answered in the PPEs.
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PPS, what are your thoughts on vague claims? Good for town? Bad for town? Good for scum? Bad for scum?
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Why are people thinking that my insisting on scum!McEFHW is scummy? Why on earth would any scum choose to take a stand against someone who it seems most other people believe is the doctor instead of subtly supporting one of the wagons of one of the other people who are under suspicion right now, knowing that at least one or more of them is likely to be town given how they are attacking each other? If I was scum and thought McEFHW was the doctor, there's no way I would have tried to bring them back to the center of attention and then would just kill them at night if a wagon didn't naturally form. I don't think scum would have much to gain by taking such strong and unpopular stand as early as D2. If people want, I can give better, way more detailed reasons for why I think this, but I really would rather not have to for reasons.
PPE3
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Why are people thinking that my insisting on scum!McEFHW is scummy? Why on earth would any scum choose to take a stand against someone who it seems most other people believe is the doctor instead of subtly supporting one of the wagons of one of the other people who are under suspicion right now, knowing that at least one or more of them is likely to be town given how they are attacking each other? If I was scum and thought McEFHW was the doctor, there's no way I would have tried to bring them back to the center of attention and then would just kill them at night if a wagon didn't naturally form. I don't think scum would have much to gain by taking such strong and unpopular stand as early as D2. If people want, I can give better, way more detailed reasons for why I think this, but I really would rather not have to for reasons.
PPE3
Bolded section means why I think McG/EFHW is scum.
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I could be persuaded to vote with good reasons.
Although really, can't we deal with that tomorrow? It's hard for me to read SA as I haven't played with them before, but the strong reaction to suspicion feels.. out of character? Has anyone seen SA under pressure before?
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I actually think our lynch pool today should be Robz, PPS and Gkrieg. For reasons.
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I actually think our lynch pool today should be Robz, PPS and Gkrieg. For reasons.
I feel like RR is scum from all this
WHAT? HAVE YOU EVER, EVER, EVER SEEN ME AS SCUM?
I propose putting RR in the pool. It seems like too much of an over-the-top reaction to be town.
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Thanks for answering my questions btw.
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What evidence just conveniently got forgotten about? And what is the much less grounded speculation you are talking about?
We started out discussing what happened in the night, and there was the idea of actual verifiable information coming from McGarnacle/PPS/Dylan. There was discussion about why Calamitas died in the night, and about why McGarnacle chose RR of all people as his N1 target. These are all now openly known in the game, but rather than base theories around actual information, we're getting stuff like PPS's "they're just scummy" argument against me. I appreciate that you've actually just taken the time to do a full re-read of the game, but I feel like you're in a minority, and that's not great with a deadline looming.
Do you really think after the EoD McGarnacle had that they could be scum?
He was looking increasingly towny at the end of D1, but then:
A) Scum could have PRs with similar constraints to town.
B) He survived N1, which is odd, to say the least.
Anyway, with EFHW taking over from McGarnacle and reading everything fresh with a much more experienced pair of eyes, I no longer think the trap idea is feasible, hence laying it out here. I do really think there's a mis-match between things PPS is saying and the things he's actually doing, and he's usually someone who makes a big deal out of that distinction.
Could you maybe point out some instances of this mismatch?
Sure.. my whole post above that comment was pretty much an index. He doesn't think McGarnacle is scum at all D1, but comes out strongly scumreading him D2 on exactly the same evidence (his survival) that you seem surprised I might also consider (since you questioned above whether I really think he can be scum). He also says he thinks he's scummy in his reads list at #988, but conveniently also doesn't think he's a good lynch, putting IDP at the top of his lynchpool list, though goes on to vote me, you and Robz over the course of the rest of D2 to date.
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I actually think our lynch pool today should be Robz, PPS and Gkrieg. For reasons.
Why PPS?
Also gkrieg has seemed nothing but towny to me.
Why not SA?
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I don't remember ANYTHING from RR today. He was so visible all of yesterday.
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I actually think our lynch pool today should be Robz, PPS and Gkrieg. For reasons.
Why PPS?
Also gkrieg has seemed nothing but towny to me.
Why not SA?
Because between these three, I'm pretty sure there's at least 1 non-town aligned player.
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I actually think our lynch pool today should be Robz, PPS and Gkrieg. For reasons.
Why PPS?
Also gkrieg has seemed nothing but towny to me.
Why not SA?
Because between these three, I'm pretty sure there's at least 1 non-town aligned player.
Just because you think so, or do you have some additional reason?
I don't like posts like this without reasons, because it's such so easy. Any grouping of three, it's pretty likely there is at least one non-town aligned player, you know. Why is this three special?
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I'm waiting for PPS to answer my question before I answer that.
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PPS, what are your thoughts on vague claims? Good for town? Bad for town? Good for scum? Bad for scum?
That's a vague question. Depends on the claim and the context surrounding it. Is there a specific claim this game you are referring to?
In general, I think breadcrumbing a PR can be useful but is often only noticed after it is too late and the person has flipped.
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Take your card type for example. You pretty much confirmed it, but didn't really. Since mafia assumedly gets to discuss this in a QT, they are more likely to figure these things out. Town can still do this. With scum potentially muddying the waters and more importantly, town feeling like they shouldn't talk about these things.
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Take your card type for example. You pretty much confirmed it, but didn't really. Since mafia assumedly gets to discuss this in a QT, they are more likely to figure these things out. Town can still do this. With scum potentially muddying the waters and more importantly, town feeling like they shouldn't talk about these things.
I PR-slipped. I wasn't trying to claim. Once I was outed I tried to hold back as much info as possible. I still wasn't clear just how much I had leaked. As it stands, the only thing not known about me is my actual role. Claiming that wouldn't really help town any further. If I get lynched or NK'd the revelation of my role won't add anything to the game except confirm I was telling the truth. I have no way of knowing what roles scum has so I would prefer to not give them any information they don't already have to use at night.
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What evidence just conveniently got forgotten about? And what is the much less grounded speculation you are talking about?
We started out discussing what happened in the night, and there was the idea of actual verifiable information coming from McGarnacle/PPS/Dylan. There was discussion about why Calamitas died in the night, and about why McGarnacle chose RR of all people as his N1 target. These are all now openly known in the game, but rather than base theories around actual information, we're getting stuff like PPS's "they're just scummy" argument against me. I appreciate that you've actually just taken the time to do a full re-read of the game, but I feel like you're in a minority, and that's not great with a deadline looming.
Do you really think after the EoD McGarnacle had that they could be scum?
He was looking increasingly towny at the end of D1, but then:
A) Scum could have PRs with similar constraints to town.
B) He survived N1, which is odd, to say the least.
Anyway, with EFHW taking over from McGarnacle and reading everything fresh with a much more experienced pair of eyes, I no longer think the trap idea is feasible, hence laying it out here. I do really think there's a mis-match between things PPS is saying and the things he's actually doing, and he's usually someone who makes a big deal out of that distinction.
Could you maybe point out some instances of this mismatch?
Sure.. my whole post above that comment was pretty much an index. He doesn't think McGarnacle is scum at all D1, but comes out strongly scumreading him D2 on exactly the same evidence (his survival) that you seem surprised I might also consider (since you questioned above whether I really think he can be scum). He also says he thinks he's scummy in his reads list at #988, but conveniently also doesn't think he's a good lynch, putting IDP at the top of his lynchpool list, though goes on to vote me, you and Robz over the course of the rest of D2 to date.
Thank you for showing me the PPS inconsistencies. I saw a few of them in my reread, but hadn't realized there were so many of them.
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There is no inconsistency with the McEfoo survival situation. Surviving D1 is not even the same as surviving the night as the claimed Town Dr. The latter is far more suspicious. Only after a lot of consideration and comparing notes and ideas with others have I come off that idea. Initially, i was the only one even questioning such an obvious night result while SA was trying to prove some sort of scum slip happened and instead outed another PR in the process. Which is the scummier, there?
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Why are people thinking that my insisting on scum!McEFHW is scummy? Why on earth would any scum choose to take a stand against someone who it seems most other people believe is the doctor instead of subtly supporting one of the wagons of one of the other people who are under suspicion right now, knowing that at least one or more of them is likely to be town given how they are attacking each other? If I was scum and thought McEFHW was the doctor, there's no way I would have tried to bring them back to the center of attention and then would just kill them at night if a wagon didn't naturally form. I don't think scum would have much to gain by taking such strong and unpopular stand as early as D2. If people want, I can give better, way more detailed reasons for why I think this, but I really would rather not have to for reasons.
PPE3
I for one DON'T think it's scummy, which is sort of giving me pause.
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I actually think our lynch pool today should be Robz, PPS and Gkrieg. For reasons.
Your reads seem much more "feelings" based than the people you have been criticizing.
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Finally finished Eevee reread.
-- He is active, which is nice.
-- I noticed a LOT of generalizations. This kind of overexplaining feels scummy to me.
-- He pretty firmly wanted to lynch Jake after the claim, disagreeing when Calamitas suggested it would be good to get one night result from him.
-- Lots of references to deadline, needing a lynch, game maybe stalling. I'm reading that as him trying to look towny.
-- His reasons for finding people scummy or towny feel flat to me, I didn't agree with any of them.
vote: Eevee
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vote count please!
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Finally finished Eevee reread.
-- He is active, which is nice.
-- I noticed a LOT of generalizations. This kind of overexplaining feels scummy to me.
-- He pretty firmly wanted to lynch Jake after the claim, disagreeing when Calamitas suggested it would be good to get one night result from him.
-- Lots of references to deadline, needing a lynch, game maybe stalling. I'm reading that as him trying to look towny.
-- His reasons for finding people scummy or towny feel flat to me, I didn't agree with any of them.
vote: Eevee
I could do an Eevee or Lekkit lynch. I will be around afternoon tomorrow to get in some final reads. I think I could be swayed on RR. Right now, Efoo, Robz, Gkrieg are out of my pool.
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Also Dylan, see no reason to lynch there.
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Forgot IDP, would hammer to lynch but don't see anything other than slight lurker case there so nothing to push.
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Finally finished Eevee reread.
-- He is active, which is nice.
-- I noticed a LOT of generalizations. This kind of overexplaining feels scummy to me.
-- He pretty firmly wanted to lynch Jake after the claim, disagreeing when Calamitas suggested it would be good to get one night result from him.
-- Lots of references to deadline, needing a lynch, game maybe stalling. I'm reading that as him trying to look towny.
-- His reasons for finding people scummy or towny feel flat to me, I didn't agree with any of them.
vote: Eevee
I could do an Eevee or Lekkit lynch. I will be around afternoon tomorrow to get in some final reads. I think I could be swayed on RR. Right now, Efoo, Robz, Gkrieg are out of my pool.
I'm utterly opposed to an RR lynch, I read him as so town it's crazy.
Eevee, yeah, I totally get why people are pushing him and I am also seeing something a little, I don't know, off? about his play. His posts are a little content-free. But this is his first game back in a long time, maybe he's rusty. And I know this is the stupidest reason ever not to lynch someone, but I just kinda like having Eevee back and don't really want to lose him unless there's a strong case.
Gkrieg, I don't know, I remain pretty suspicious, but he actually did a good job mollifying me, which I suppose should actually make me more suspicious, it's exactly what I would do. Yet here I am falling for it.
I find it interesting, PPS, that you seem to push Space a lot but then kinda retreat from that lynch. I don't know what to make of it, because I do think you're town, but I would actually be more suspicious of you if Space DID flip scum. If that makes any sense.
Lekkit is probably my top lynch, if there is any interest there. Space or IDPTG would also serve.
Not lynching: Dylan, PPS, RR, EFHW (for today)
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Forgot IDP, would hammer to lynch but don't see anything other than slight lurker case there so nothing to push.
I get that the day before the deadline isn't the best time to bring this up, but I do feel bad about that. It hasn't been intentional and I'm trying to participate more for the sake of the game.
I can definitely see the case on Eevee. I'm still super unsure about McGarnacle/EFHW. When EFHW "confirmed" that McGarnacle was town, it seemed odd to me. I don't know if it felt scummy or just odd. Would town really feel the need to say that?
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Finally finished Eevee reread.
-- He is active, which is nice.
-- I noticed a LOT of generalizations. This kind of overexplaining feels scummy to me.
-- He pretty firmly wanted to lynch Jake after the claim, disagreeing when Calamitas suggested it would be good to get one night result from him.
-- Lots of references to deadline, needing a lynch, game maybe stalling. I'm reading that as him trying to look towny.
-- His reasons for finding people scummy or towny feel flat to me, I didn't agree with any of them.
vote: Eevee
I could do an Eevee or Lekkit lynch. I will be around afternoon tomorrow to get in some final reads. I think I could be swayed on RR. Right now, Efoo, Robz, Gkrieg are out of my pool.
I'm utterly opposed to an RR lynch, I read him as so town it's crazy.
Eevee, yeah, I totally get why people are pushing him and I am also seeing something a little, I don't know, off? about his play. His posts are a little content-free. But this is his first game back in a long time, maybe he's rusty. And I know this is the stupidest reason ever not to lynch someone, but I just kinda like having Eevee back and don't really want to lose him unless there's a strong case.
Gkrieg, I don't know, I remain pretty suspicious, but he actually did a good job mollifying me, which I suppose should actually make me more suspicious, it's exactly what I would do. Yet here I am falling for it.
I find it interesting, PPS, that you seem to push Space a lot but then kinda retreat from that lynch. I don't know what to make of it, because I do think you're town, but I would actually be more suspicious of you if Space DID flip scum. If that makes any sense.
Lekkit is probably my top lynch, if there is any interest there. Space or IDPTG would also serve.
Not lynching: Dylan, PPS, RR, EFHW (for today)
So your reason for not trusting me is that you trust me?
I would also be just fine with a lekkit lynch. vote: lekkit with another vote on SA and yet another vote on Eevee
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Forgot IDP, would hammer to lynch but don't see anything other than slight lurker case there so nothing to push.
I get that the day before the deadline isn't the best time to bring this up, but I do feel bad about that. It hasn't been intentional and I'm trying to participate more for the sake of the game.
I can definitely see the case on Eevee. I'm still super unsure about McGarnacle/EFHW. When EFHW "confirmed" that McGarnacle was town, it seemed odd to me. I don't know if it felt scummy or just odd. Would town really feel the need to say that?
I agree with you here. It did seem a little bit off.
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Finally finished Eevee reread.
-- He is active, which is nice.
-- I noticed a LOT of generalizations. This kind of overexplaining feels scummy to me.
-- He pretty firmly wanted to lynch Jake after the claim, disagreeing when Calamitas suggested it would be good to get one night result from him.
-- Lots of references to deadline, needing a lynch, game maybe stalling. I'm reading that as him trying to look towny.
-- His reasons for finding people scummy or towny feel flat to me, I didn't agree with any of them.
vote: Eevee
I could do an Eevee or Lekkit lynch. I will be around afternoon tomorrow to get in some final reads. I think I could be swayed on RR. Right now, Efoo, Robz, Gkrieg are out of my pool.
I'm utterly opposed to an RR lynch, I read him as so town it's crazy.
Could you explain your read?
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Vote Count 2.5
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Roadrunner7671
RoadRunner7671 (1): IDontPlayThisGame
EFHW (1): Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (3): pingpongsam, Eevee, Robz888
pingpongsam (1): SpaceAnemone
Eevee (1): EFHW
Lekkit (1): GKrieg13
Not Voting (1): Lekkit
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The day ends on Thursday Dec 1, 3 pm
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Allright. So. Reasons. [While I was making this post I actually came to a conclusion about PPS but left stuff in here. Hopefully it won't clutter up things too much.]
[This was actually a part of the post before, but then I found the quote where PPS claimed his card type and then said he wouldn't.]
The lynch yesterday didn't really give us much to go on, right? I think an informative lynch today puts us in a very risky spot. The current top wagon is SA for... Basically no real reason. Gut feeling more than anything. We're basically doing day 1 all over again. With us being two people short. This is not a winning strategy. Luckily for us, there's stuff to go on. I feel it's weird that the only one who actually seems to care about this is SA. I REALLY feel like we're currently heading down another non-informative lynch that might hit scum or put us in a really bad position, and probably losing out on the stuff we actually had to go on.
I've given this some thought, and think it's better to have it out now rather than later. ESPECIALLY since nobody seems to even care to go look for it. This actually makes me think that there's more vets in the scum team than newer players.
I'm pretty sure PPS is Watcher, possibly Tracker or scum leading us (or only me?) along. This is not something that's super hidden. Just read his Dylan thing and you'll get it. He also claimed he's an Action card.
I am a town PR and I am a Action card. I suppose it's better to put that out there than to exist under the obvious scum shadow that could create for me.
That's all I have to say about that. Even if you press me to L-1 I won't tell you what I am or what I did with it last night.
Now. Let's start with the Watcher scenario. He would then have watched Dylan, as he stated. But who did he see there? With the doubt surrounding McEFHW I wouldn't be surprised if he got picked off tonight. And I'm pretty sure he's aware that's a possibility. So. Where does that leave town if he doesn't leave his results? In a bad spot. So of course he did. In a subtle way. [End of the "old" post.] Actually, I'll just post this and then continue in a new one.
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So. PPS, this time.
I am a town PR and I am a Action card. I suppose it's better to put that out there than to exist under the obvious scum shadow that could create for me.
That's all I have to say about that. Even if you press me to L-1 I won't tell you what I am or what I did with it last night.
I am not revealing my card type. The reason for this is because my role description specifically says there are certain card types my power is ineffective on. I can only assume scum has similar restrictions and knowing who to use or not use their power on at night is not information I care to give them. This is exactly why I was suspicious of Calamitas (and am subsequently confused as to why he kept fishing for it as VT). It's also why I am hugely against mass claim.
So first he reveals his card type and then goes back and says he won't do it? This is really weird.
There's also another thing that's really interesting in here.
"The reason for this is because my role description specifically says there are certain card types my power is ineffective on. I can only assume scum has similar restrictions and knowing who to use or not use their power on at night is not information I care to give them."
Certain card types. As in multiple types. First of all, this is really weird if he's a tracker. Since it wouldn't be relevant if he thought only action cards had actions. Or rather, he would've come to understand it's not just Action cards who have night actions.
Ergh. I will have to go soon. Work calls. I'll sum this up quickly, then.
It's also inconsistent with what it seems how the PRs work.
My power is ineffective on Cards that share my type.
^This is what he says later.
Then we have something funky in his reads list.
McGarnacle - null to scum, still unsure about the claim but not going to lynch today as I think he can prove himself if he is what he says he is
The way I see it McEFHW is either scum or town. There's no null. Either doctor or lying.
I really need to go now. I think PPS is lying through his teeth. And also trying to set up mislynches based on "breadcrumbs" for a PR that I don't think he is.
Vote: pingpongsam
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Did Calamitas claim his card type? That could explain why he was killed. They went for the sure thing instead of targeting someone with an unknown card type.
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fyi, Lekkit, I am a she.
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We really need to start consolidating our votes. There seems to be some interest in an Eevee lynch, so I'd like to stay put, but maybe other people on one person wagons could consider moving their votes?
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I want to reread pps before the deadline, but I realistically don't think I will have time. He has so many long complicated posts. I'll see what I can do.
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fyi, Lekkit, I am a she.
I knew that. I just imagined McG and not you. Terribly sorry about that...
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Did Calamitas claim his card type? That could explain why he was killed. They went for the sure thing instead of targeting someone with an unknown card type.
This is VERY incriminating.
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So. PPS, this time.
I am a town PR and I am a Action card. I suppose it's better to put that out there than to exist under the obvious scum shadow that could create for me.
That's all I have to say about that. Even if you press me to L-1 I won't tell you what I am or what I did with it last night.
I am not revealing my card type. The reason for this is because my role description specifically says there are certain card types my power is ineffective on. I can only assume scum has similar restrictions and knowing who to use or not use their power on at night is not information I care to give them. This is exactly why I was suspicious of Calamitas (and am subsequently confused as to why he kept fishing for it as VT). It's also why I am hugely against mass claim.
So first he reveals his card type and then goes back and says he won't do it? This is really weird.
There's also another thing that's really interesting in here.
"The reason for this is because my role description specifically says there are certain card types my power is ineffective on. I can only assume scum has similar restrictions and knowing who to use or not use their power on at night is not information I care to give them."
Certain card types. As in multiple types. First of all, this is really weird if he's a tracker. Since it wouldn't be relevant if he thought only action cards had actions. Or rather, he would've come to understand it's not just Action cards who have night actions.
Ergh. I will have to go soon. Work calls. I'll sum this up quickly, then.
It's also inconsistent with what it seems how the PRs work.
My power is ineffective on Cards that share my type.
^This is what he says later.
Then we have something funky in his reads list.
McGarnacle - null to scum, still unsure about the claim but not going to lynch today as I think he can prove himself if he is what he says he is
The way I see it McEFHW is either scum or town. There's no null. Either doctor or lying.
I really need to go now. I think PPS is lying through his teeth. And also trying to set up mislynches based on "breadcrumbs" for a PR that I don't think he is.
Vote: pingpongsam
Based on the reads I am seeing I do not think I am a viable candidate today. If you won't be around at deadline could you at least move your vote to someone more viable? If I get NK'd you will have your answer. If I survive I will claim my role and at least N2's target tomorrow. Letting everyone know who is a PR today before I die seems like a bad idea.
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I will be around now. Just need to get home to get to a computer.
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Did Calamitas claim his card type? That could explain why he was killed. They went for the sure thing instead of targeting someone with an unknown card type.
This is VERY incriminating.
??
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We don't know scum can't kill based on types.
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What evidence just conveniently got forgotten about? And what is the much less grounded speculation you are talking about?
We started out discussing what happened in the night, and there was the idea of actual verifiable information coming from McGarnacle/PPS/Dylan. There was discussion about why Calamitas died in the night, and about why McGarnacle chose RR of all people as his N1 target. These are all now openly known in the game, but rather than base theories around actual information, we're getting stuff like PPS's "they're just scummy" argument against me. I appreciate that you've actually just taken the time to do a full re-read of the game, but I feel like you're in a minority, and that's not great with a deadline looming.
Do you really think after the EoD McGarnacle had that they could be scum?
He was looking increasingly towny at the end of D1, but then:
A) Scum could have PRs with similar constraints to town.
B) He survived N1, which is odd, to say the least.
Anyway, with EFHW taking over from McGarnacle and reading everything fresh with a much more experienced pair of eyes, I no longer think the trap idea is feasible, hence laying it out here. I do really think there's a mis-match between things PPS is saying and the things he's actually doing, and he's usually someone who makes a big deal out of that distinction.
Could you maybe point out some instances of this mismatch?
Sure.. my whole post above that comment was pretty much an index. He doesn't think McGarnacle is scum at all D1, but comes out strongly scumreading him D2 on exactly the same evidence (his survival) that you seem surprised I might also consider (since you questioned above whether I really think he can be scum). He also says he thinks he's scummy in his reads list at #988, but conveniently also doesn't think he's a good lynch, putting IDP at the top of his lynchpool list, though goes on to vote me, you and Robz over the course of the rest of D2 to date.
Thank you for showing me the PPS inconsistencies. I saw a few of them in my reread, but hadn't realized there were so many of them.
These are indeed interesting.
There is no inconsistency with the McEfoo survival situation. Surviving D1 is not even the same as surviving the night as the claimed Town Dr. The latter is far more suspicious. Only after a lot of consideration and comparing notes and ideas with others have I come off that idea. Initially, i was the only one even questioning such an obvious night result while SA was trying to prove some sort of scum slip happened and instead outed another PR in the process. Which is the scummier, there?
I don't think this is fair towards SA, unless you are insinuating SA knowingly rolefished around to out a PR, and this is coming from someone who is voting for them. Does mafia ever really do that, blatantly rolefish? I can't think of a single time it's happened in my memory.
This feels more like PPS trying to discredit SA who is making the argument against him, not the argument made itself, if that makes sense.
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Finally finished Eevee reread.
-- He is active, which is nice.
-- I noticed a LOT of generalizations. This kind of overexplaining feels scummy to me.
-- He pretty firmly wanted to lynch Jake after the claim, disagreeing when Calamitas suggested it would be good to get one night result from him.
-- Lots of references to deadline, needing a lynch, game maybe stalling. I'm reading that as him trying to look towny.
-- His reasons for finding people scummy or towny feel flat to me, I didn't agree with any of them.
vote: Eevee
I don't know how to respond to this. You know, from my perspective it isn't overexplaining but just explaining my reasons. From my perspective the references on useful things for town are because I AM town and trying to help us keep track of these things. To me my reasons, while maybe not mountaineous in their insight, certainly not flat, I think I've made useful observations and produced at least some useful analysis. I'm surprised to hear you didn't agree with any of my reasons or reads. Really, none of them? I haven't pegged you as someone who would embellish their case (as town), so that really makes me wonder because I don't think I've been that useless. I know this is approaching the literal definition of OMGUS, but this case feels very disingenuous and scummy to me.
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This is all of RR's posts today:
If Jake would've claimed his actual role he'd still be alive
Yeah that was a weird doctor. I appreciate the 'jester' though!
I'm not sure it's scummy but I think PPS might've had a PR slip, which isn't good.
This was weird and confusing and there's too much stuff going on and I don't like it.
He was a vanilla cop. The difference is actually pretty significant
That would be a Rolecop
So I've been lurking (sorry) but I'll be gone all day today as well.
So I didn't miss too much at all.
(broken half to not make post too long)
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Did Calamitas claim his card type? That could explain why he was killed. They went for the sure thing instead of targeting someone with an unknown card type.
This is VERY incriminating.
??
I doubt that the mafia are card-restricted for their night kill action. Maybe for their PRs, if they have any. But restricting the kill seems like really messing with fundamental mafia protocol, and I don't know that LL would do that.
Well, I say that, but EFHW assuming otherwise almost looks like a scum slip here. Gosh.
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Hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving.
Except for the scum, of course.
This is actually...mildly scummy
So I don't wish myself a Happy Thanksgiving???
No, because scum are clearly on your mind. You were thinking about scum enough when making a Thanksgiving post that you chose to comment on the scum team.
Can we put Gkrieg in the lynch pool? All I remember him doing was going after me...
I don't like what gkreig is really doing here and I think he's way off, but I don't think it's scummy. I don't like how he's calling me scummy for 'playing outside my meta' though, I'm not sure he could decisively tell me what my meta is, and trying to push the game forward on D1 isn't so much a meta thing as just a thing anyone should do.
This seems super scummy to me. Vote: IDPTG
So maybe I should've explained IDPTG's scumminess. He's fallen into the classic noob!scum trap: reading everyone as town!
He goes with the flow, which seems to be reading RR as mildly scummy. PPS expressed a mild scumread on me, the Gkreig had a much more severe scumread on me, so calling RR scum is a pretty safe thing to do to keep your head down.
Noob!scum tends to not bus during the early game (I know this), so it's understandable that IDPTG would express town reads on his partners. However, he also townreads everyone else! Noob scum often townreads everyone because they know that town people are, as a matter of fact, town, so it's difficult to put up a case against someone who is confirmed town.
Thanks for making me explain, it just made me feel better about my vote.
It's not so much '9 town reads' as no scum reads. And based on what you said about McGingerbread, I sort of considered that a town read.
But you said nothing about SA. You were sort of hedgey on McGermany, which is even more scummy.
Your reads just don't seem like you're scumhunting.
It's very unlikely there's anything that messes with voting. PPS planted that seed and we need to stop watering it!
So Gkreig brought up three things that I should reply to:
- Interesting quote from RR. Why did he want to know if scum had fake flavor names?
Jake doesn't play Dominion, and he would've probably struggled to come up with a fake flavor name, as it would've had to have been an existing and 'good' Dominion card.
- @RR What made you change your mind on McGarnacle?
Mostly his claim of targeting me. It was quirky and bold as scum that I just don't see noob!scum!McGranola trying to pull that off.
- Also an interesting quote from RR that I'm not sure what it means
That referred to me not wanting to lynch Jake because he was Jake, basically.
That's really witty!
I'm utterly opposed to an RR lynch, I read him as so town it's crazy.
Robz, what makes you so sure he is town? I've started to build a PoE scum read on him, as other people have started looking townier today, and I think RR's contributions have really fallen off since yesterday. Am I being unfair? That's only a couple of posts today that are longer than 1-2 sentences.
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I sort of agree with Lekkit's long post, but I really don't want to lynch PPS.
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Did Calamitas claim his card type? That could explain why he was killed. They went for the sure thing instead of targeting someone with an unknown card type.
This is VERY incriminating.
??
I doubt that the mafia are card-restricted for their night kill action. Maybe for their PRs, if they have any. But restricting the kill seems like really messing with fundamental mafia protocol, and I don't know that LL would do that.
Well, I say that, but EFHW assuming otherwise almost looks like a scum slip here. Gosh.
These were my exact thoughts. I thought about scum having that restriction. But we could end up in draw situations then.
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Robz, what makes you so sure he is town? I've started to build a PoE scum read on him, as other people have started looking townier today, and I think RR's contributions have really fallen off since yesterday. Am I being unfair? That's only a couple of posts today that are longer than 1-2 sentences.
My huge town read on him stems from his play at the end of day 1, where I watched him go thru basically all the exact same emotions I did regarding the Jake/McG/Calamitas lynch choices. I hadn't realized how absent he was today, but that doesn't necessarily make me think he's scum. Being confused and disinterested on a difficult day 2 is almost more townie than scummy.
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Did Calamitas claim his card type? That could explain why he was killed. They went for the sure thing instead of targeting someone with an unknown card type.
This is VERY incriminating.
??
I doubt that the mafia are card-restricted for their night kill action. Maybe for their PRs, if they have any. But restricting the kill seems like really messing with fundamental mafia protocol, and I don't know that LL would do that.
Well, I say that, but EFHW assuming otherwise almost looks like a scum slip here. Gosh.
These were my exact thoughts. I thought about scum having that restriction. But we could end up in draw situations then.
Keep in mind that EFHW subbed in to this game. If she is scum, and they do have that restriction, she might have seen it in her PM or whatever and assumed it was public knowledge in the setup somewhere.
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We don't know scum can't kill based on types.
, ( I ).
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Robz, what makes you so sure he is town? I've started to build a PoE scum read on him, as other people have started looking townier today, and I think RR's contributions have really fallen off since yesterday. Am I being unfair? That's only a couple of posts today that are longer than 1-2 sentences.
My huge town read on him stems from his play at the end of day 1, where I watched him go thru basically all the exact same emotions I did regarding the Jake/McG/Calamitas lynch choices. I hadn't realized how absent he was today, but that doesn't necessarily make me think he's scum. Being confused and disinterested on a difficult day 2 is almost more townie than scummy.
To me it's weird to be active and on top of everything day 1, but then appear confused/disengaged day 2. Or, well, suddenly hanging back makes me think he is happy with the direction we are going (which in the scum narrative would be not towards him or his partners of course). We have WAY more information now than we did yesterday, I don't think RR's play is reflecting that.
Sort of feels like Robz is making excuses for RR here. I'm not saying I'm sure he is scum, but saying his play today is strengthening your townread seems crazy to me. Unreasonable even!
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Eevee, it's impossible to happy with the direction things are going. It's not even clear what direction things are going.
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On phone, sorry. pps didn't want to say his type because maybe scum need to know to take actions. That's what led me to think that.
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Sorry if I was unclear. What I meant was that I assumed they didn't have that restriction because to me it didn't make much sense. I could see it being a possibility. But I'd assume others would come to that same conclusion. It could be she didn't think about the end game possibilities, which makes her post actually sound really towny, or she didn't think about us not knowing about a possible restriction, which would make it a scum slip.
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I didn't find Eevee's end of day 1 all that towny. He was pretty set on Jake, with some token mention of other options. Also, rusty town doesn't have so much filler, but rusty scum might.
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On phone, sorry. pps didn't want to say his type because maybe scum need to know to take actions. That's what led me to think that.
You did NOT say "know to take actions," you said "kill." Scum PRs being type-restricted seems in-keeping with what we know so far, the scum night kill being restricted is pretty out there IMO.
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Re: EFHW (Apparently there is a limit for quotes per post, as it wouldn't let me quote anymore)
I usually hate hate hate scumslip arguments, but this looks VERY promising.
It would explain so many things! Why did was Calamitas killed (I really dislike the redirector/lighting rod theories in a normal game), why McG's play was so weird for a doctor (ding ding ding), and the mistake for EFHW would be understandable as she subbed in in a hurry.
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Eevee, it's impossible to happy with the direction things are going. It's not even clear what direction things are going.
Well, RR himself sure isn't facing any heat. I think it's pretty natural for a mafia player to take less risks when it seems like status quo is going to be someone else, which could then end up looking like RR's play today, enough raw posting to not be called out for lurking, but not a lot of meat in them.
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On phone, sorry. pps didn't want to say his type because maybe scum need to know to take actions. That's what led me to think that.
You did NOT say "know to take actions," you said "kill." Scum PRs being type-restricted seems in-keeping with what we know so far, the scum night kill being restricted is pretty out there IMO.
If I were scum I wouldn't see any value in providing this possible explanation for the Calamitas nk. Maybe it's a bad theory, but as doctor I was thinking about 1. Who should I protect and 2. What are my chances of survival.
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There is no inconsistency with the McEfoo survival situation. Surviving D1 is not even the same as surviving the night as the claimed Town Dr. The latter is far more suspicious. Only after a lot of consideration and comparing notes and ideas with others have I come off that idea. Initially, i was the only one even questioning such an obvious night result while SA was trying to prove some sort of scum slip happened and instead outed another PR in the process. Which is the scummier, there?
I don't think this is fair towards SA, unless you are insinuating SA knowingly rolefished around to out a PR, and this is coming from someone who is voting for them. Does mafia ever really do that, blatantly rolefish? I can't think of a single time it's happened in my memory.
This feels more like PPS trying to discredit SA who is making the argument against him, not the argument made itself, if that makes sense.
Yes, not so much discredit and reinforce my own rather flimsy case on them. This seems like more of the same attempt to detract from the fact that the McGypsy issue was at hand yet they felt a need to continue to press about my role. It seemed really counterproductive at the time and seems downright scummy now as I don't recall them ever addressing that particular issue once I was outed.
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There is no inconsistency with the McEfoo survival situation. Surviving D1 is not even the same as surviving the night as the claimed Town Dr. The latter is far more suspicious. Only after a lot of consideration and comparing notes and ideas with others have I come off that idea. Initially, i was the only one even questioning such an obvious night result while SA was trying to prove some sort of scum slip happened and instead outed another PR in the process. Which is the scummier, there?
I don't think this is fair towards SA, unless you are insinuating SA knowingly rolefished around to out a PR, and this is coming from someone who is voting for them. Does mafia ever really do that, blatantly rolefish? I can't think of a single time it's happened in my memory.
This feels more like PPS trying to discredit SA who is making the argument against him, not the argument made itself, if that makes sense.
Yes, not so much discredit and reinforce my own rather flimsy case on them. This seems like more of the same attempt to detract from the fact that the McGypsy issue was at hand yet they felt a need to continue to press about my role. It seemed really counterproductive at the time and seems downright scummy now as I don't recall them ever addressing that particular issue once I was outed.
What exactly is the particular "McGypsy issue" you want me to address and feel I'm neglecting? I've pretty much laid out all my (scuppered!) plans already in that respect, and I'm still suspicious of the both of you.
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I don't think it was a scum slip
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There is no inconsistency with the McEfoo survival situation. Surviving D1 is not even the same as surviving the night as the claimed Town Dr. The latter is far more suspicious. Only after a lot of consideration and comparing notes and ideas with others have I come off that idea. Initially, i was the only one even questioning such an obvious night result while SA was trying to prove some sort of scum slip happened and instead outed another PR in the process. Which is the scummier, there?
I don't think this is fair towards SA, unless you are insinuating SA knowingly rolefished around to out a PR, and this is coming from someone who is voting for them. Does mafia ever really do that, blatantly rolefish? I can't think of a single time it's happened in my memory.
This feels more like PPS trying to discredit SA who is making the argument against him, not the argument made itself, if that makes sense.
Yes, not so much discredit and reinforce my own rather flimsy case on them. This seems like more of the same attempt to detract from the fact that the McGypsy issue was at hand yet they felt a need to continue to press about my role. It seemed really counterproductive at the time and seems downright scummy now as I don't recall them ever addressing that particular issue once I was outed.
What exactly is the particular "McGypsy issue" you want me to address and feel I'm neglecting? I've pretty much laid out all my (scuppered!) plans already in that respect, and I'm still suspicious of the both of you.
All I recall and am currently finding is where you analyze me in regards to my response and positioning around the fact that McEGghead survived the night. Maybe I missed where you directly address this seeming anomaly without just brushing it aside as well Calamitas was the obvious play. If EFHW is the town Dr why did she get to play today?
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Vote Count 2.5
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Roadrunner7671
RoadRunner7671 (1): IDontPlayThisGame
EFHW (1): Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (3): pingpongsam, Eevee, Robz888
pingpongsam (1): SpaceAnemone
Eevee (1): EFHW
Lekkit (1): GKrieg13
Not Voting (1): Lekkit
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The day ends on Thursday Dec 1, 3 pm
Yikes, we're all over the place
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What exactly is the particular "McGypsy issue" you want me to address and feel I'm neglecting? I've pretty much laid out all my (scuppered!) plans already in that respect, and I'm still suspicious of the both of you.
All I recall and am currently finding is where you analyze me in regards to my response and positioning around the fact that McEGghead survived the night. Maybe I missed where you directly address this seeming anomaly without just brushing it aside as well Calamitas was the obvious play. If EFHW is the town Dr why did she get to play today?
The "if EFHW is town" possibilities:
1) If she's town and you're town, the it would seem likely that scum knew what PRs are out there, and figured that the NK would be watched, so targeted someone else. It doesn't do a good job of explaining RR being the doc target, or your investigative roll being used on Dylan and not to catch scum.
2) If EFHW is town and you're scum, then my case on you doesn't need to justify your weird NK decision, and we're in a better position because we may still have town PRs out there. This also would explain why you seem to have a result on Dylan, since you wouldn't actually have had to think about who to target to such a degree. And I've seen how you work in a scum QT before.. you liked the wild plays but didn't necessarily think the details through.
There are also the "if EFHW is scum" possibilities:
1) EFHW scum and you not-scum. This would make sense of the odd RR doc-claim because it's a safe lie, and would make perfect sense why someone other than McG died in the night. It doesn't make sense of the fact that you didn't use your investigation on McEFHW, though, or the part where you refused to help with the scum-trap/ignored my suggestions.
2) Both you and EFHW are scum. Most of the big evidence makes sense: someone other than McG dieing, your odd choice of claimed investigation target, and your reluctance to try to compare notes in order to "out" a scum.
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If anyone, it would definitely be PPS going for the bold play as scum..
I don't like this development of liking the analysis in the posts of the person I'm voting for.
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Vote Count 2.5
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Roadrunner7671
RoadRunner7671 (1): IDontPlayThisGame
EFHW (1): Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (3): pingpongsam, Eevee, Robz888
pingpongsam (1): SpaceAnemone
Eevee (1): EFHW
Lekkit (1): GKrieg13
Not Voting (1): Lekkit
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The day ends on Thursday Dec 1, 3 pm
Yikes, we're all over the place
Really do need to consolidate. I'll be back at 12:30 and will move then if needed, but Eevee really is my first choice.
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That will be my last chance to post, probably. I won't be on at deadline.
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I mean we still have plurality lynch
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I mean we still have plurality lynch
Not so comforting for me!
What's your argument for Lekkit over PPS, given that you seemed to acknowledge at least some of my case on the latter?
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I mean we still have plurality lynch
Not so comforting for me!
What's your argument for Lekkit over PPS, given that you seemed to acknowledge at least some of my case on the latter?
I mean part of it is just general feel. I still don't feel like PPS is scum. Even with the inconsistencies, I think those are more things that PPS just does. Part of it is just from wanting to lynch a lurker, rather than lynch someone who is very active, because scum has been winning that way recently and I don't really like it. I also feel fairly strongly that my reads this time are good, so I would really rather not lynch someone who wasn't in my lynch pool after doing my reread. I spent a lot of time on that reread, and I think that I'm right.
On another hand, PPS is claiming that he is a PR, so that is another reason to keep him alive for another day. Also we have plurality lynch, so voting for the person you think is scummiest is what you want to do at this point.
The biggest thing going for Lekkit in my mind is that he is a lurker, that also has some shady things going for him. I'm also less excited about voting for you now that Eevee and Robz both got on that wagon. They are two that I'm also very dubious about and I don't like it when my scum reads all vote with me. Not that they wouldn't bus, but it just doesn't give me the biggest warm fuzzies.
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My top two for lynching are RR and EFHW
RR:
He really hasn't given us much content to go on and his posts haven't had much substance. I could see scum trying to stay quiet the day after getting our Cop lynched. I think RR is the safest lynch.
EFHW:
This stems from the strange McGarnacle sitution. Doctor seems like an awful fake claim for town and yet McGarnacle survived the night. Someone mentioned scum leaving McGarnacle alive for WIFOM and I think that's definitely a possibility. However, when EFHW took over there was the strange first post. I'm almost ready to gamble on McGarnacle having lied.
PPE: 2
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What exactly is the particular "McGypsy issue" you want me to address and feel I'm neglecting? I've pretty much laid out all my (scuppered!) plans already in that respect, and I'm still suspicious of the both of you.
All I recall and am currently finding is where you analyze me in regards to my response and positioning around the fact that McEGghead survived the night. Maybe I missed where you directly address this seeming anomaly without just brushing it aside as well Calamitas was the obvious play. If EFHW is the town Dr why did she get to play today?
The "if EFHW is town" possibilities:
1) If she's town and you're town, the it would seem likely that scum knew what PRs are out there, and figured that the NK would be watched, so targeted someone else. It doesn't do a good job of explaining RR being the doc target, or your investigative roll being used on Dylan and not to catch scum.
2) If EFHW is town and you're scum, then my case on you doesn't need to justify your weird NK decision, and we're in a better position because we may still have town PRs out there. This also would explain why you seem to have a result on Dylan, since you wouldn't actually have had to think about who to target to such a degree. And I've seen how you work in a scum QT before.. you liked the wild plays but didn't necessarily think the details through.
There are also the "if EFHW is scum" possibilities:
1) EFHW scum and you not-scum. This would make sense of the odd RR doc-claim because it's a safe lie, and would make perfect sense why someone other than McG died in the night. It doesn't make sense of the fact that you didn't use your investigation on McEFHW, though, or the part where you refused to help with the scum-trap/ignored my suggestions.
2) Both you and EFHW are scum. Most of the big evidence makes sense: someone other than McG dieing, your odd choice of claimed investigation target, and your reluctance to try to compare notes in order to "out" a scum.
I think the likelihood of them both being scum has to be pretty small. That would leave town with just a vanilla cop? That just seems like the chances are way too low. I think the fact that town has a vanilla cop leads me to believe that town has quite a few PRs, and that scum probably is something like PR/PR/goon, which kind of fits with PPS's claim. Especially since all of the PRs that are claimed are pretty weak, especially if PPS is what I think he is.
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Welp, this is why I don't like plurality lynch. Not going to be much to analyze about a three-person wagon. And there's a weird and total lack of urgency going. No one lobbying people to vote for someone else, no meaningful interactions, just a big haze. This isn't good, people.
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My top two for lynching are RR and EFHW
RR:
He really hasn't given us much content to go on and his posts haven't had much substance. I could see scum trying to stay quiet the day after getting our Cop lynched. I think RR is the safest lynch.
EFHW:
This stems from the strange McGarnacle sitution. Doctor seems like an awful fake claim for town and yet McGarnacle survived the night. Someone mentioned scum leaving McGarnacle alive for WIFOM and I think that's definitely a possibility. However, when EFHW took over there was the strange first post. I'm almost ready to gamble on McGarnacle having lied.
PPE: 2
I could definitely go for an RR lynch, the fact that he still isn't present is weird, although maybe he had V/LA? I'm actually remembering something like that from him. But he still was so active D1. If RR is scum, I think it makes EFHW much more likely to be scum. The fact that he was on last EoD when the two major wagons were town/town is more of a town tell for me?
The problem with D1 analysis is that I have a feeling all of the major wagons were on town, which means that there isn't really much to go off of. I think you look at the people that were trying to make sure that we would only focus on the major wagons, so maybe you vote for Eevee or Robz? I mean I guess I was in that boat as well to a certain degree.
I guess I'm not convinced on RR or EFHW at the moment.
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Welp, this is why I don't like plurality lynch. Not going to be much to analyze about a three-person wagon. And there's a weird and total lack of urgency going. No one lobbying people to vote for someone else, no meaningful interactions, just a big haze. This isn't good, people.
I agree. I'm trying to make some of those interactions happen, but people are content having their own lynch pools and not really changing them.
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RR, from the V/LA thread:
"I'll have pretty limited access from Wednesday morning to Saturday evening, forum time."
This makes me less inclined to lynch based on lack of content, but there was plenty of time earlier in the day.
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Do we want to leave EFHW alive for one more night, just in case?
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Do we want to leave EFHW alive for one more night, just in case?
I do.
Trying to reread to get everyone's pool to see if we have a winner...
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I'm going to make another list with my current reads. Mostly for me, but I figured I would share it.
3. Roadrunner7671 - This is another one that I just don't really know.
5. SpaceAnemone - I really thought they were scum, but my scum read died down on them slightly. I don't think my case was good enough for scum to bus, and so because my other major scum reads jumped on their wagon I became a little less sure of the wagon. I still think they are a fine lynch, but I don't think I'll be actively pushing their case.
6. McGarnacle EFHW - I really feel they are town. McGarnacle's claim last EoD is enough for me at this point to think they are town.
7. Idontplaythisgame - Just reads newb!town to me. They haven't been the most active, but it feels like they are trying to get a handle on the game.
8. Lekkit - My vote on this is for other cases people have put forward mixed with the lurking factor. I'm also still not sure why he was so sure that scum was within {me, Robz, PPS} but then only puts together a case on PPS.
9. Dylan32 - I have my eye on him, and if someone presented a good case, I could definitely jump on this wagon.
10. PingPongSam - Not really feeling it today. I just outlined my reasons for this.
11. Robz888 - Definitely would lynch. I don't like his play D1, and I just modded him being scum. I don't know anymore. The more I read his recent posts, the more I think he is town. ugh.
12. Eevee - I think this is a valid target for lynch today. His stuff on the last page about RR is pretty ridiculous. With plurality lynch, I don't think anyone is happy with things are now. It only takes 2 votes for you to have as many as SA and be the lynch target. No one should feel safe right now.
I actually feel like I don't have a very good grasp on this game again, and we only have a few pages since my last reread! I think my main read that persists from my earlier reads is Eevee. His posts still seem very scummy to me. Lekkit is a new scum read. Something just doesn't seem right with his posts.
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Looking over the past few pages (bold shows consistent preference for lynch) (italics are my comments):
Gkrieg: Robz, RR, SA, Lekkit, Eevee
EFHW: Eevee (seems odd to be almost alone here, although she just got into the game and would not have all the context reads that McGiggles had, also, she is clear about needing to consolidate votes)
IDP: Robz, Gkrieg, RR, EFHW
Dylan: EFHW (not alone but pretty far left of center)
Eevee: SA
SA: PPS (omgus much or are you and your partner lekkit that scared of me?)
Robz: SA, Lekkit, IDP
Lekkit: Robz, PPS, GKrieg (not really sure how you can get both Robz and Gkrieg on a scumteam in your head; oh, I see, they are both interested in your lynch, more omgus)
PPS: SA, RR, Lekkit
So dropping those with less than 3 instances we get:
SA with 4 instances
Robz with 3 instances
Lekkit with 3 instances
RR with 3 instances
Removing myself from the voting pool, although these are verifiable quantities I gleaned from the post history:
SA = 3
Robz = 3
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apologies the bolded string on Gkrieg should be italics
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apologies the bolded string on Gkrieg should be italics
or on lekkit after the word Gkrieg: I'll just repost it fixed, already
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Looking over the past few pages (bold shows consistent preference for lynch) (italics are my comments):
Gkrieg: Robz, RR, SA, Lekkit, Eevee
EFHW: Eevee (seems odd to be almost alone here, although she just got into the game and would not have all the context reads that McGiggles had, also, she is clear about needing to consolidate votes)
IDP: Robz, Gkrieg, RR, EFHW
Dylan: EFHW (not alone but pretty far left of center)
Eevee: SA
SA: PPS (omgus much or are you and your partner lekkit that scared of me?)
Robz: SA, Lekkit, IDP
Lekkit: Robz, PPS, GKrieg (not really sure how you can get both Robz and Gkrieg on a scumteam in your head; oh, I see, they are both interested in your lynch, more omgus)
PPS: SA, RR, Lekkit
So dropping those with less than 3 instances we get:
SA with 4 instances
Robz with 3 instances
Lekkit with 3 instances
RR with 3 instances
Removing myself from the voting pool, although these are verifiable quantities I gleaned from the post history:
SA = 3
Robz = 3 (for the record, I'm wholly opposed here)
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apologies the bolded string on Gkrieg should be italics
or on lekkit after the word Gkrieg: I'll just repost it fixed, already
PPS, the king of forgetting people. Has RR voted anyone other than me today?
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PPS, your list omits a number of people who expressed openness to lynching Eevee - Robz, gkrieg, IDPTG and yourself.
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apologies the bolded string on Gkrieg should be italics
or on lekkit after the word Gkrieg: I'll just repost it fixed, already
PPS, the king of forgetting people. Has RR voted anyone other than me today?
I didn't forget. He's not present in the last few pages where people are posting their pools so he is automatically discluded. He won't be here at deadline. He's voting IDP which would still only put him at 2 instances so is irrelevant altogether.
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apologies the bolded string on Gkrieg should be italics
or on lekkit after the word Gkrieg: I'll just repost it fixed, already
PPS, the king of forgetting people. Has RR voted anyone other than me today?
I didn't forget. He's not present in the last few pages where people are posting their pools so he is automatically discluded. He won't be here at deadline. He's voting IDP which would still only put him at 2 instances so is irrelevant altogether.
My bad, sorry. I thought it was a longer read-through.
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PPS, your list omits a number of people who expressed openness to lynching Eevee - Robz, gkrieg, IDPTG and yourself.
Look, it was a quick run through looking at the bottom each post for a string of usernames indicating willingness to lynch or watching for bolded votes themselves.
If you think you can do better with the time we have go for it. I think it works for the moment where people are free to amend right now.
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Vote Count 2.6
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Roadrunner7671
RoadRunner7671 (1): IDontPlayThisGame
EFHW (1): Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (3): pingpongsam, Eevee, Robz888
pingpongsam (2): SpaceAnemone, Lekkit
Eevee (1): EFHW
Lekkit (1): GKrieg13
Not Voting (0):
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The day ends on Thursday Dec 1, 3 pm
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I started my list at Mod Vote Count post #1050 to give some context to its' length and breadth.
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Vote Count 2.6
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Roadrunner7671
RoadRunner7671 (1): IDontPlayThisGame
EFHW (1): Dylan32
SpaceAnemone (3): pingpongsam, Eevee, Robz888
pingpongsam (2): SpaceAnemone, Lekkit
Eevee (1): EFHW
Lekkit (1): GKrieg13
Not Voting (0):
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The day ends on Thursday Dec 1, 3 pm
I really don't like this. Votes are super spread out and it's plurality lynch.
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PPS, your list omits a number of people who expressed openness to lynching Eevee - Robz, gkrieg, IDPTG and yourself.
I think it would be better organized by lynchee rather than by voter. I added to the Eevee list and added Eevee to RR's list, otherwise I went by yours and didn't doublecheck anything.
Wagon: Willing voters
Eevee: EFHW, Robz, gkrieg, IDPTG, pps
SA: gkrieg, Eevee, Robz, PPS
RR: gkrieg, IDP, PPS, Eevee
Robz: IDG, gkrieg, Lekkit
Lekkit: gkrieg, Robz, PPS
PPS: SA, Lekkit
EFHW: Dylan, IDP
gkrieg: IDP, Lekkit
IDP: Robz
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Sorry, I have to go now. I'll check in if I get a moment.
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If RR is town then it will take full town consensus or a scum bus to make a scum lynch today...
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PPS, your list omits a number of people who expressed openness to lynching Eevee - Robz, gkrieg, IDPTG and yourself.
I think it would be better organized by lynchee rather than by voter. I added to the Eevee list and added Eevee to RR's list, otherwise I went by yours and didn't doublecheck anything.
Wagon: Willing voters
Eevee: EFHW, Robz, gkrieg, IDPTG, pps
SA: gkrieg, Eevee, Robz, PPS
RR: gkrieg, IDP, PPS, Eevee
Robz: IDG, gkrieg, Lekkit
Lekkit: gkrieg, Robz, PPS
PPS: SA, Lekkit
EFHW: Dylan, IDP
gkrieg: IDP, Lekkit
IDP: Robz
Not sure where I agreed to lynch Eevee, did I?
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I'm here, and will be til deadline. Let's talk this out. I guess the benefit is that we actually CAN get just about any lynch since it takes so few votes.
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I'm here, and will be til deadline. Let's talk this out. I guess the benefit is that we actually CAN get just about any mislynch since it takes so few votes.
FTFY
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It arguably takes all the votes to get scum.
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I feel supremely good about voting SA or Lekkit as only those I feel good about being town are looking to vote there.
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I have a sinking feeling the following things are going to happen:
1. We plurality lynch Space with like three freaking votes
2. Space flips town
3. Tomorrow: Everyone will be like "OMG Robz drove this wagon on town, must be scum." I'll be like, "Actually it just kind of happened because nobody did anything." Everyone will respond, "Shut up, scum."
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I'm back, a couple pages to catch up on.
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I have a sinking feeling the following things are going to happen:
1. We plurality lynch Space with like three freaking votes
2. Space flips town
3. Tomorrow: Everyone will be like "OMG Robz drove this wagon on town, must be scum." I'll be like, "Actually it just kind of happened because nobody did anything." Everyone will respond, "Shut up, scum."
Pretty sure I drove the wagon. Also, I think step 2 is not very likely at all.
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PPS, your list omits a number of people who expressed openness to lynching Eevee - Robz, gkrieg, IDPTG and yourself.
I think it would be better organized by lynchee rather than by voter. I added to the Eevee list and added Eevee to RR's list, otherwise I went by yours and didn't doublecheck anything.
Wagon: Willing voters
Eevee: EFHW, Robz, gkrieg, IDPTG, pps
SA: gkrieg, Eevee, Robz, PPS
RR: gkrieg, IDP, PPS, Eevee
Robz: IDG, gkrieg, Lekkit
Lekkit: gkrieg, Robz, PPS
PPS: SA, Lekkit
EFHW: Dylan, IDP
gkrieg: IDP, Lekkit
IDP: Robz
Not sure where I agreed to lynch Eevee, did I?
I'll vote for him if it comes to it.. and I've already said I'm also feeling scummy vibes from EFHW and Robz. I'd also consider voting for a lurker wagon if it's them or me, so I'll include RR too:
Wagon: Willing voters
Eevee: EFHW, Robz, gkrieg, IDPTG, pps
RR: gkrieg, IDP, PPS, Eevee, SA
SA: gkrieg, Eevee, Robz, PPS
Robz: IDG, gkrieg, Lekkit, SA
Lekkit: gkrieg, Robz, PPS
EFHW: Dylan, IDP, SA
PPS: SA, Lekkit
gkrieg: IDP, Lekkit
IDP: Robz
Anyone else want to pick it up and edit? It's likely to be more informative if we all try to use more or less the same criteria/thresholds to fill it out.
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Well, certainly don't like the Eevee lynch! Gkrieg, can you expand how I'm being ridiculous? I tried to address all of what EFHW pointed out, I don't really even know why you are suspecting me, except for the lack of good enough content. I mean, the reason I've played less and less mafia is, I've lately started finding it more and more hand-waving guesswork until very late days. It's just impossible to know, but you have to take stances or scum can just skate by and not vote for each other and win. So, if my posts feel vague, it really is just the best I can do.
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It arguably takes all the votes to get scum.
Okay, forgot about plurality. Funny, I've brought this up a few times and either I'm being ignored with shaking heads or just invisible altogether.
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I feel a consensus lynch like this makes things the easiest for scum. Really easy for them to manipulate the situation and then say "well, i didnt say i liked it, i just went along with it" when it hits town (like me!).
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It's probably too late to do EFHW or PPS.
RR is not here.
SA has seemed much townier lately, but I don't really have a great alternative target either. And I might just be blinded by SA's long posts with reasonable points. Always been my big weakness.
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I feel a consensus lynch like this makes things the easiest for scum. Really easy for them to manipulate the situation and then say "well, i didnt say i liked it, i just went along with it" when it hits town (like me!).
Uh, you have exactly one wavering vote on you, I don't think you are going to get lynched. I don't think the current leading wagon is coming over to you.
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I feel a consensus lynch like this makes things the easiest for scum. Really easy for them to manipulate the situation and then say "well, i didnt say i liked it, i just went along with it" when it hits town (like me!).
I agree; this seems like a really good spot for scum. We need to do something. I'm still prefering the RR lynch, but I'm willing to swap. Deadline's in 30 minutes, right?
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I feel a consensus lynch like this makes things the easiest for scum. Really easy for them to manipulate the situation and then say "well, i didnt say i liked it, i just went along with it" when it hits town (like me!).
Uh, you have exactly one wavering vote on you, I don't think you are going to get lynched. I don't think the current leading wagon is coming over to you.
What are you talking about? He absolutely could be lynched, anyone could. It would only take three more votes! Have you never seen an end of day before? (Rhetorical question because obviously you have.)
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I'm an idiot. 1 hour and 30 minutes
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I feel a consensus lynch like this makes things the easiest for scum. Really easy for them to manipulate the situation and then say "well, i didnt say i liked it, i just went along with it" when it hits town (like me!).
I agree; this seems like a really good spot for scum. We need to do something. I'm still prefering the RR lynch, but I'm willing to swap. Deadline's in 30 minutes, right?
We have an hour and a half I think
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Think it's a bad deal to lynch the VLA guy on D2 when we expect at least 2 more scum to find today.
IDP, why are you not pro-SA lynch?
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Well, certainly don't like the Eevee lynch! Gkrieg, can you expand how I'm being ridiculous? I tried to address all of what EFHW pointed out, I don't really even know why you are suspecting me, except for the lack of good enough content. I mean, the reason I've played less and less mafia is, I've lately started finding it more and more hand-waving guesswork until very late days. It's just impossible to know, but you have to take stances or scum can just skate by and not vote for each other and win. So, if my posts feel vague, it really is just the best I can do.
I agree that it is a little bit of hand-waving guesswork, but that is the part that is fun sometimes!
Anyway, I think you are being ridiculous with your analysis of some things.
Re: EFHW (Apparently there is a limit for quotes per post, as it wouldn't let me quote anymore)
I usually hate hate hate scumslip arguments, but this looks VERY promising.
It would explain so many things! Why did was Calamitas killed (I really dislike the redirector/lighting rod theories in a normal game), why McG's play was so weird for a doctor (ding ding ding), and the mistake for EFHW would be understandable as she subbed in in a hurry.
Robz, what makes you so sure he is town? I've started to build a PoE scum read on him, as other people have started looking townier today, and I think RR's contributions have really fallen off since yesterday. Am I being unfair? That's only a couple of posts today that are longer than 1-2 sentences.
My huge town read on him stems from his play at the end of day 1, where I watched him go thru basically all the exact same emotions I did regarding the Jake/McG/Calamitas lynch choices. I hadn't realized how absent he was today, but that doesn't necessarily make me think he's scum. Being confused and disinterested on a difficult day 2 is almost more townie than scummy.
To me it's weird to be active and on top of everything day 1, but then appear confused/disengaged day 2. Or, well, suddenly hanging back makes me think he is happy with the direction we are going (which in the scum narrative would be not towards him or his partners of course). We have WAY more information now than we did yesterday, I don't think RR's play is reflecting that.
Sort of feels like Robz is making excuses for RR here. I'm not saying I'm sure he is scum, but saying his play today is strengthening your townread seems crazy to me. Unreasonable even!
These two in particular. I don't think scum can be happy with the situation now seeing as one of their own could be quicklynched without much warning. I think they will be among the lurkers who are viewing the page but not contributing to the discussion.
I also think that the scum slip argument is ridiculous, but that is partially because I thought the same thing as EFHW before I realized that it could cause cases where scum was unable to kill anyone, because everyone left alive was of their same alignment.
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I'm an idiot. 1 hour and 30 minutes
Yeah, it's about 80 minutes now. I'm going to be offline for about 30 of those minutes now, because of leaving work and heading up to Haddock's, where I hope to steal his wifi for the actual EoD.
While I'm gone, how about people look at Vote: EFHW, and see whether anyone feels like that can gain any more traction than my PPS vote. I seriously don't understand why I'm getting so little support given how much suspicious stuff there is there!
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The scum slip argument is not "ridiculous." It might not be right, but it's not unthinkable given the cloud of suspicion already around EFHW.
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One other thing from the wagon analysis "who would vote for who" is that we should just lynch Eevee because the highest number of people were willing to lynch them. We have the most information from his flip.
Still don't want to lynch EFHW.
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The scum slip argument is not "ridiculous." It might not be right, but it's not unthinkable given the cloud of suspicion already around EFHW.
Ok that's fair. I just thought it was silly because I had had the exact same thought, and I know that I'm town, so the thought that another town thought the same thing isn't that ridiculous.
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Here now. Will read the last few pages properly.
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One other thing from the wagon analysis "who would vote for who" is that we should just lynch Eevee because the highest number of people were willing to lynch them. We have the most information from his flip.
Still don't want to lynch EFHW.
Not true, I was mistakenly included in his willing voters and I'm not willing.
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Think it's a bad deal to lynch the VLA guy on D2 when we expect at least 2 more scum to find today.
IDP, why are you not pro-SA lynch?
I'm neutral on SA because I've yet to feel like I have a solid read on them. I can go back and do a reread but it'll have to be a fast one.
PPE: 2
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I would rather lynch Space than Eevee. Pretty sure.
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Who do you want to lynch, IDP? I don't remember.
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@gkrieg's #1243
But that's what I tried to say! I meant that RR makes sense for a page-refreshing scum riding their town cred from the previous day.
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Who do you want to lynch, IDP? I don't remember.
Oh, it's RR. Well RR is not happening, he gets a pass for not being here. Which isn't how it should work, but it is.
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I think only EFHW and RR are not here currently
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Who do you want to lynch, IDP? I don't remember.
Oh, it's RR. Well RR is not happening, he gets a pass for not being here. Which isn't how it should work, but it is.
Which made me wonder about strategic VLAs but that seems like really, really bad form
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Maybe I'm just completely , wildly wrong about RR.
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I mean, I could do RR. IDP is voting him. Others are willing too. We could definitely secure his death over any others. He gives me the least feeling we'd hit scum out of all them. I feel so damned good about Lekkit or SA flipping scum everyone else would have to go over there before I'd follow.
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Who do you want to lynch, IDP? I don't remember.
Oh, it's RR. Well RR is not happening, he gets a pass for not being here. Which isn't how it should work, but it is.
Which made me wonder about strategic VLAs but that seems like really, really bad form
I'm pretty sure faking V/LA is against the moral rules of the FDS mafia community
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The scum slip argument is not "ridiculous." It might not be right, but it's not unthinkable given the cloud of suspicion already around EFHW.
Yeah, you can of course disagree, but does that really make me scummy gkrieg?
Something isn't adding up here, and efhw being scum would clear some of the bigger questions. As a lynch candidate it really sucks that the risk is lynching the doctor.
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I mean, I could do RR. IDP is voting him. Others are willing too. We could definitely secure his death over any others. He gives me the least feeling we'd hit scum out of all them. I feel so damned good about Lekkit or SA flipping scum everyone else would have to go over there before I'd follow.
Why wouldn't you go for Eevee? What makes your town read on them so strong?
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The scum slip argument is not "ridiculous." It might not be right, but it's not unthinkable given the cloud of suspicion already around EFHW.
Yeah, you can of course disagree, but does that really make me scummy gkrieg?
Something isn't adding up here, and efhw being scum would clear some of the bigger questions. As a lynch candidate it really sucks that the risk is lynching the doctor.
For me my town read on McGarnacle/EFHW is strictly the claim from McGarnacle. I think it was just too solid of a town claim for them to be scum.
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Who do you want to lynch, IDP? I don't remember.
Oh, it's RR. Well RR is not happening, he gets a pass for not being here. Which isn't how it should work, but it is.
Which made me wonder about strategic VLAs but that seems like really, really bad form
I don't think anyone is insinuating this is a strategic vla, but rr could still be scum regardless.
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Based on the reads I am seeing I do not think I am a viable candidate today. If you won't be around at deadline could you at least move your vote to someone more viable? If I get NK'd you will have your answer. If I survive I will claim my role and at least N2's target tomorrow. Letting everyone know who is a PR today before I die seems like a bad idea.
But that's the thing. What if the PR is actually scum? Or do we just assume town got all the good stuff while scum got nothing? If you're town, I think "outing the PR" isn't necessarily only a bad thing.
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I still want to lynch Robz, PPS or gkrieg. I would be willing to risk it with EFHW or SA. I don't think Eevee is the lynch.
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I'd lynch gkrieg but not PPS, SA but not EFHW. I think.
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Something about you just feels scummy. I think I addressed it in my big reread posts. Your insistence that the wagons stay on the town people D1 is one of the bigger points. I also didn't like your rereads in #997 and #998, mainly the pressure vote, which just seemed strange.
Another main point is that there are people that want to lynch you, but your wagon isn't very big. Also my scum reads mainly don't want to lynch you, other than Robz, which is a point toward you being scum and away from SA being scum.
PPE: Lekkit, you still haven't explained why that is your lynch pool, you just put together a case on PPS and left.
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This is the weirdest end of day I've ever participated in and I'm trying to understand why. Something is going on.
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Lekkit lynch, anyone?
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This is the weirdest end of day I've ever participated in and I'm trying to understand why. Something is going on.
I agree. It is weird from the perspective that scum just needs to get someone lynched that isn't them but they don't know who to put it on yet I don't think. Another weird thing for me is that if one wagon gets more than 3 votes, I will probably start to get paranoid that we are lynching the wrong person. The fact that it is like this points to one of two things in my mind, scum is either vets, or lurkers, so town is really just destroying itself by being active.
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Lekkit lynch, anyone?
My opinion is clear on that one.
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Reread SA, not seeing anything that makes me want to vote them. @PPS, I think there are better candidates right now.
PPE: 2
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Lekkit lynch, anyone?
My opinion is clear on that one.
The issue is if I switch my vote from Space to Lekkit I think I put PPS in danger because he has two votes against him.
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Something about you just feels scummy. I think I addressed it in my big reread posts. Your insistence that the wagons stay on the town people D1 is one of the bigger points. I also didn't like your rereads in #997 and #998, mainly the pressure vote, which just seemed strange.
Another main point is that there are people that want to lynch you, but your wagon isn't very big. Also my scum reads mainly don't want to lynch you, other than Robz, which is a point toward you being scum and away from SA being scum.
PPE: Lekkit, you still haven't explained why that is your lynch pool, you just put together a case on PPS and left.
Because PPS kind of breadcrumbed you and Robz as the ones who targeted Dylan.
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Lekkit lynch, anyone?
Maybe its because I agree his reads and I like it, but would be on bottom half of my preference list.
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PPS, your list omits a number of people who expressed openness to lynching Eevee - Robz, gkrieg, IDPTG and yourself.
I think it would be better organized by lynchee rather than by voter. I added to the Eevee list and added Eevee to RR's list, otherwise I went by yours and didn't doublecheck anything.
Wagon: Willing voters
Eevee: EFHW, Robz, gkrieg, IDPTG, pps
SA: gkrieg, Eevee, Robz, PPS
RR: gkrieg, IDP, PPS, Eevee
Robz: IDG, gkrieg, Lekkit
Lekkit: gkrieg, Robz, PPS
PPS: SA, Lekkit
EFHW: Dylan, IDP
gkrieg: IDP, Lekkit
IDP: Robz
Not sure where I agreed to lynch Eevee, did I?
not agreed, just expressed openness.
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This is the weirdest end of day I've ever participated in and I'm trying to understand why. Something is going on.
I agree. It is weird from the perspective that scum just needs to get someone lynched that isn't them but they don't know who to put it on yet I don't think. Another weird thing for me is that if one wagon gets more than 3 votes, I will probably start to get paranoid that we are lynching the wrong person. The fact that it is like this points to one of two things in my mind, scum is either vets, or lurkers, so town is really just destroying itself by being active.
I agree, but this feeling has been prevalent all day today. That's why I like the EFHW-case, one of the PR's actually being scum would somewhat explain our analysis coming from a place of confusion.
I re
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Something about you just feels scummy. I think I addressed it in my big reread posts. Your insistence that the wagons stay on the town people D1 is one of the bigger points. I also didn't like your rereads in #997 and #998, mainly the pressure vote, which just seemed strange.
Another main point is that there are people that want to lynch you, but your wagon isn't very big. Also my scum reads mainly don't want to lynch you, other than Robz, which is a point toward you being scum and away from SA being scum.
PPE: Lekkit, you still haven't explained why that is your lynch pool, you just put together a case on PPS and left.
Because PPS kind of breadcrumbed you and Robz as the ones who targeted Dylan.
Whatttttt?
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It could be me just reading things wrong. Pulling the quotes now.
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Vote count?
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So do we gamble of McGarnacle having lied?
PPE: 2
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So do we gamble of McGarnacle having lied?
PPE: 2
Gamble on, sorry
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This is the weirdest end of day I've ever participated in and I'm trying to understand why. Something is going on.
I agree. It is weird from the perspective that scum just needs to get someone lynched that isn't them but they don't know who to put it on yet I don't think. Another weird thing for me is that if one wagon gets more than 3 votes, I will probably start to get paranoid that we are lynching the wrong person. The fact that it is like this points to one of two things in my mind, scum is either vets, or lurkers, so town is really just destroying itself by being active.
I agree, but this feeling has been prevalent all day today. That's why I like the EFHW-case, one of the PR's actually being scum would somewhat explain our analysis coming from a place of confusion.
I re
Hm, that's an interesting theory. I guess something like EFHW + RR + ? would be sufficiently weird to produce the current situation. Still don't think we should lynch EFHW though.
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So do we gamble of McGarnacle having lied?
PPE: 2
Gamble on, sorry
No, we're not doing that. What else ya got?
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super rushed, no lies
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So do we gamble of McGarnacle having lied?
PPE: 2
Gamble on, sorry
No, we're not doing that. What else ya got?
I could agree to a Space lynch
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So do we gamble of McGarnacle having lied?
PPE: 2
Gamble on, sorry
No, we're not doing that. What else ya got?
I could agree to a Space lynch
Let's do that!
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I mean, I could do RR. IDP is voting him. Others are willing too. We could definitely secure his death over any others. He gives me the least feeling we'd hit scum out of all them. I feel so damned good about Lekkit or SA flipping scum everyone else would have to go over there before I'd follow.
Why wouldn't you go for Eevee? What makes your town read on them so strong?
Not so much a strong town read as a strong scum read on others. Like I said, I could be coerced into voting Eevee but I wouldn't feel good about it.
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This is the weirdest end of day I've ever participated in and I'm trying to understand why. Something is going on.
I agree. It is weird from the perspective that scum just needs to get someone lynched that isn't them but they don't know who to put it on yet I don't think. Another weird thing for me is that if one wagon gets more than 3 votes, I will probably start to get paranoid that we are lynching the wrong person. The fact that it is like this points to one of two things in my mind, scum is either vets, or lurkers, so town is really just destroying itself by being active.
I agree, but this feeling has been prevalent all day today. That's why I like the EFHW-case, one of the PR's actually being scum would somewhat explain our analysis coming from a place of confusion.
I re
Hm, that's an interesting theory. I guess something like EFHW + RR + ? would be sufficiently weird to produce the current situation. Still don't think we should lynch EFHW though.
And you could replace EFHW with PPS and rr any of the lower posters.
I don't know where to go, I reread the lower posters and no one looked like scum
to me, but SA has also looked townier under pressure after the initial omgus.
Robz is another very strong contender for scum, too bad no one has yet to figure out how to catch him. If there are any power roles, think he'd make a great target.
Efhw lynch feels appealing to me partially through process of elimination, and I would move my vote to her buttttt I kind of agree with Robz that the downside might be too big. Which of course in turn makes doctor such a good fakeclaim.
Wouldn't lynch Lekkit, he seems townier and townier (seems to make sense, his reads align with mine).
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So do we gamble of McGarnacle having lied?
PPE: 2
Gamble on, sorry
No, we're not doing that. What else ya got?
I could agree to a Space lynch
Let's do that!
I don't want to wait too long, but I'd like to see whatever Lekkit's pulling together
PPE: 2
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Vote Count 2.7
IDontPlayThisGame (1): Roadrunner7671
RoadRunner7671 (1): IDontPlayThisGame
EFHW (2): Dylan32, SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (3): pingpongsam, Eevee, Robz888
pingpongsam (1): Lekkit
Eevee (1): EFHW
Lekkit (1): GKrieg13
Not Voting (0):
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The day ends on Thursday Dec 1, 3 pm
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Eevee, who would you lynch other than me?
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Space not caring enough to come defend themself actually makes me think town
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I don't want to wait too long, but I'd like to see whatever Lekkit's pulling together
PPE: 2
He's going to confirm i am what everyone already knows I am, a town PR that did things last night that adds up.
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Space not caring enough to come defend themself actually makes me think town
No, scum disappear at the end of the day when they are cornered. All they have is a terrible case on me. I wouldn't be so dead set on SA if they had actually looked elsewhere. Damn, the tunneling thing makes me feel more town on them, though, but definitely not the late day absence/lack of defense.
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But they weren't cornered, they are only getting three votes
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While I expect major shifts over next week just a gut check on the living players (order is c&p of mod list)
GKrieg13 - null to town; expect big things in the next couple of days
Roadrunner7671 - null to town because of Jake and his meta, okay to lynch just for funnies tho
SpaceAnemone - null to scum, they are superb and looking towny and I think this could be the case; would lynch to see
McGarnacle - null to scum, still unsure about the claim but not going to lynch today as I think he can prove himself if he is what he says he is
Idontplaythisgame - null to scum, is this this game's lurker, nothing sticks out in my mind other than some Haddock style outrage and omgus in the early game, not opposed to a lynch at this point
Lekkit - town to scum, lol, no middle ground here. He says meta is overrated but lacking none makes him hard to read for me. Seems helpful like I would be if I were town. Would not lynch today.
Dylan32 - probably town
PingPongSam - so town it hurts
Robz888 - town to scum. Lean more towards town but I'm not null here, I can read scum or town into his play but there's no ho hum about it. Would not lynch today but if we mislynch again would consider it for tomorrow because I think he can drive us like that as scum.
Ok, so current pool to me is RR, SA, IDP in increasing order of preference although I hope and expect this to change once everyone gets engaged soon. Could easily be swayed on my town to scum not null reads.
Only two town to scum reads. This would be easy to refer back to later assuming one of us dies.
Then we have these two in pretty rapid succession.
About Dylan being targeted, if by scum, could be a RB. Dylan was read as town yesterday and some folks came out and said as much (probably myself included). Those could be the suspects if my suspicions are true. Pretty sure Robz was one of those people.
I will get to rereading this later today, but why are people putting so much pressure on me? I have had announced V/LA, and there are people who have been much less active than I have.
Not sure if you are referring to me but I think you are going to be the pivotal player today. You and Robz.
After that there's a lot of focus on those two.
I mean. Honestly, it's not super much. But I think it's enough to give credit to a breadcrumb.
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But they weren't cornered, they are only getting three votes
Which again, might very well be enough to get lynched.
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But they weren't cornered, they are only getting three votes
I don't like how with 3 votes and 6 needed to lynch, the next SA vote effectively hammers
PPE: a lot
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But they weren't cornered, they are only getting three votes
Which again, might very well be enough to get lynched.
Yes, right now, they are as good as L-1.
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Space can't be scum. If Space were scum, Space's partners could and would easily save Space, unless the partners are like RR and Dylan or something.
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Eevee, who would you lynch other than me?
I don't even have anything that concrete against you, it's just that someone needs to be scum and if they seem super hard to catch, you spring to mind first.
I guess I'm fine with SA, RR not really being an option. I think gkrieg is playing so strongly that he's useful to have around for tomorrow to drive the conversation, he is taking so many stances that if he is scum, we should be able to deduct it later.
I I could go for IDPTG as well, he has seemed a little gung-ho lately, but then again we have 12 minutes to decide on a lynch, so that's not necessarily a bad thing.
How are people feeling about Dylan? He is like rr to me, after the super towny start I've been starting to wonder more and more as things have started spiraling downhill.
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I could go IDPTG. In fact, let's do it
Vote: IDPTG
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vote: idptg
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I'd also like to point out that nobody has used the argument, the super vets are alive. I remember that was a thing previously. Not a good thing, though. But nobody mentioning it makes me kind of wonder.
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Space not caring enough to come defend themself actually makes me think town
No, scum disappear at the end of the day when they are cornered. All they have is a terrible case on me. I wouldn't be so dead set on SA if they had actually looked elsewhere. Damn, the tunneling thing makes me feel more town on them, though, but definitely not the late day absence/lack of defense.
I'm back.. catching up on things having eaten dinner... 8pm on a Games Night day is the worst possible time for a deadline!
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I'd also like to point out that nobody has used the argument, the super vets are alive. I remember that was a thing previously. Not a good thing, though. But nobody mentioning it makes me kind of wonder.
What is that an argument for, though?
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I don't feel like scum is controlling this EoD and that makes me really wonder about RR but also makes me feel even better about SA.
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vote: idptg
Ok, damn, Vote: IDPTG
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I'd also like to point out that nobody has used the argument, the super vets are alive. I remember that was a thing previously. Not a good thing, though. But nobody mentioning it makes me kind of wonder.
What is that an argument for, though?
Just putting it out there.
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Since it looks like I'm about to die, claiming VT
PPE: 1
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I'd also like to point out that nobody has used the argument, the super vets are alive. I remember that was a thing previously. Not a good thing, though. But nobody mentioning it makes me kind of wonder.
I kind of just said that about Robz. Who else are the super vets?
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Eevee, who would you lynch other than me?
I don't even have anything that concrete against you, it's just that someone needs to be scum and if they seem super hard to catch, you spring to mind first.
I guess I'm fine with SA, RR not really being an option. I think gkrieg is playing so strongly that he's useful to have around for tomorrow to drive the conversation, he is taking so many stances that if he is scum, we should be able to deduct it later.
I I could go for IDPTG as well, he has seemed a little gung-ho lately, but then again we have 12 minutes to decide on a lynch, so that's not necessarily a bad thing.
How are people feeling about Dylan? He is like rr to me, after the super towny start I've been starting to wonder more and more as things have started spiraling downhill.
Maybe it's just semantics but I think a scum player says this over a town player would say "has to be scum" instead.
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Since it looks like I'm about to die, claiming VT
PPE: 1
Will be happy to go back to SA, guys/gals.
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Space can't be scum. If Space were scum, Space's partners could and would easily save Space, unless the partners are like RR and Dylan or something.
`
Or is that what's happening right now?
aghhhhhhh. 6 minutes
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Seems pretty semantics-y to me
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I'd also like to point out that nobody has used the argument, the super vets are alive. I remember that was a thing previously. Not a good thing, though. But nobody mentioning it makes me kind of wonder.
I kind of just said that about Robz. Who else are the super vets?
You and PPS. I was mentioned as someone who's been around for a while, but I'm pretty sure I have less experience than most people here.
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Space can't be scum. If Space were scum, Space's partners could and would easily save Space, unless the partners are like RR and Dylan or something.
`
Or is that what's happening right now?
aghhhhhhh. 6 minutes
Well I know I'm not scum, so no.
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Space can't be scum. If Space were scum, Space's partners could and would easily save Space, unless the partners are like RR and Dylan or something.
`
Or is that what's happening right now?
aghhhhhhh. 6 minutes
Pretty sure Robz isn't Space's partner. EFHW, well... so, lynch Space, already.
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Ack getting super scummy vibes from Lekkit now. Lekkit lynch > IDPTG ?
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Would prefer Lekkit over IDPTG
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Why not lekkit?
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I said I'd be okay with a lurker, so I'll give that a go:
Vote: IDPTG
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I'd rather go Lekkit than Space, but I don't like either
PPE: 3
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Why not lekkit?
Vote: Lekkit
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I prefer Lekkit but literally can't tell if the votes are there for that.
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I'd rather go Lekkit than Space, but I don't like either
PPE: 3
It looks like you'll need to vote for one of them to save yourself
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I'll switch to IDTPG to avoid Lekkit
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I prefer Lekkit but literally can't tell if the votes are there for that.
I think he is at two but I'm on mobile
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IDPTG
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Vote: IDPTG
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Has anyone got a current vote count?
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Damn, seeya, IDPTG, I believe your VT claim but I sure hope you flip scum.
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Vote Count 2.7
IDontPlayThisGame (5): Roadrunner7671, Robz888, EFHW, SpaceAnemone, Eevee
RoadRunner7671 (1): IDontPlayThisGame
EFHW (1): Dylan32
pingpongsam (1): Lekkit
Lekkit (2): GKrieg13, pingpongsam
Not Voting (0):
With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The day ends on Thursday Dec 1, 3 pm
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Vote: Lekkit
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Has anyone got a current vote count?
Don't worry you made it.
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I'd rather go Lekkit than Space, but I don't like either
PPE: 3
It looks like you'll need to vote for one of them to save yourself
Which I hate. Potentially lynch town or let town get lynched.
vote: Lekkit
PPE: 1
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One more for Lekkit come on ppl
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Has anyone got a current vote count?
Don't worry you made it.
Day's not over yet, and Robz is messing around.. I don't think anything's safe yet!
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or coinflip?
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it is finished
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at least it is 4-4 now
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Good luck in the rest of the game guys
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THREAD LOCKED
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Final Vote Count
IDontPlayThisGame (4): Roadrunner7671, EFHW, SpaceAnemone, Eevee
EFHW (1): Dylan32
pingpongsam (1): Lekkit
Lekkit (4): GKrieg13, pingpongsam, Robz888, IDontPlayThisGame
Not Voting (0):
Rolled 1d2 : 2, total 2
With 10 alive, it took 4 to lynch.
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So, Lekkit and IDontPlayThisGame were on trial. No one tried to defend himself, everyone was trying to convince each other. Cultist took a HUGE scissors to lynch the one who will be most suspicious. Cards were arguing, they could not reach the decision. Finally, Fortune Teller stepped forward with the Coin of The Realm.
I will flip it! If it falls heads, IDPTG is lynched. If it falls Tails, Lekkit is lynched.
Card were looking at her astonished. Fate makes the decision.
Coin in the air...
3...
2...
1...
Tails.
Lekkit was lynched! He was Cache, The Treasure Card and the Vanilla Card.
Night 2 starts now and ends 3rd of December at 3 pm. Deadline for the night actions is 2 pm of 3rd of December.
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The cards, disappointed after Cache’s death went to sleep into their houses. And only one of them, restless Familiar wasn’t satisfacted enough to have a good sleep. As usually, he went outside to breathe some fresh air and to see whether there are some criminals wandering around.
Suddenly he noticed a weak light far away. He wondered, who’s not sleeping in this time of the night? So carefully he started to move closer. When he got to the source of this strange light he realized it was a candle.
«Who could leave it here burning?»
He decided to move a little closer, because he saw some shadows behind the candle.
He didn’t notice that candle was falling. Right onto him. Blinding pain pierced him and in the last moment he finally saw who was behind it and couldn’t believe his own eyes…
PingPongSam, Familiar, Tracker and the Action Card was killed!
Vote Count 3.0
Not Voting ( 8 ): Roadrunner7671, EFHW, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, Dylan32, GKrieg13, Robz888, IDontPlayThisGame
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 3 starts now and ends 10th of December at 3 pm.
Thread unlocked.
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I protected PPS and he died anyway!
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They don't need to kill me if they can just neutralize my power.
pps was a big driver of the town game. The rest of us are going to need to step up.
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So who did PPS say he targeted yesterday? He claimed that his target targeted Dylan, but that is it.
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It kind of sounds like he was killed by the person he tried to track. If we have a PGO, you might want to consider claiming so this doesn't happen again. There's nothing about him being weak, so we can't assume he targeted scum. If the flavor is meaningful, then it's possible that he died because he was double-killed.
PPE: He didn't say.
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Double killed? Lol. This is getting ridiculous. Our "doctor" claimed on Day 1 and is still alive on Day 3. The person the doctor should have protected is dead. EFHW, at the very least, you have to understand how bad this looks for you, right?
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Also, um, is this MYLO?
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Also, um, is this MYLO?
Well depending on whether we have a working doctor and/or other roles
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What do PGO and MYLO stand for?
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What do PGO and MYLO stand for?
Paranoid Gun Owner and Mislynch-and-Lose, respectively. If there are game-based acronyms you don't know, try googling them with the word "mafiascum", and you can usually find a page explaining things.
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It kind of sounds like he was killed by the person he tried to track. If we have a PGO, you might want to consider claiming so this doesn't happen again. There's nothing about him being weak, so we can't assume he targeted scum. If the flavor is meaningful, then it's possible that he died because he was double-killed.
PPE: He didn't say.
He must have been pretty confident about surviving the night to hide that information, though... I was sure he was scum because he was claiming a role and still not giving us enough other info to work with!
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Double killed? Lol. This is getting ridiculous. Our "doctor" claimed on Day 1 and is still alive on Day 3. The person the doctor should have protected is dead. EFHW, at the very least, you have to understand how bad this looks for you, right?
Yeah, I guess so. It depends. If they have a roleblocker then there is no point to killing me when leaving me alive looks bad and they still can get their kills through. That's the best theory, really, but the flavor made me wonder about pps targeting someone leading to his death.
I did protect pps, and am proud that I correctly read him as town, but alas my doctoring was insufficient and I don't know why.
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What do PGO and MYLO stand for?
Paranoid Gun Owner and Mislynch-and-Lose, respectively. If there are game-based acronyms you don't know, try googling them with the word "mafiascum", and you can usually find a page explaining things.
Thanks. Last time I tried that I couldn't make sense of it (IC) so I didn't bother this time. Won't happen again. Does LaLight have to tell us if it's MYLO?
I'm even less convinced of the McGarnacle/EFHW Doctor claim now than I was before.
It kind of sounds like he was killed by the person he tried to track. If we have a PGO, you might want to consider claiming so this doesn't happen again. There's nothing about him being weak, so we can't assume he targeted scum. If the flavor is meaningful, then it's possible that he died because he was double-killed.
PPE: He didn't say.
Meanwhile, we have McGarnacle claiming a strange Doctor pick N1, EFHW claiming to have protected the person killed N2, and then fishing for a PGO. My understanding of PGO (from mafiascum) is that the person will kill scum that target them. Given the amount of town deaths (2 PRs and 2 VTs), scum is looking pretty good; the last thing they need is a casualty to keep the game going. I don't know how many PRs people think there are around, but if town is looking to avoid a hypothetical PGO, that's an assumption that there are at least 4 town PRs in a 12 person game. I don't think that's likely, but I'm also the least versed in mafia. If we assume EFHW actually is the Doctor, we're up to 5.
From my understanding, if this is MYLO and we lynch town, the only way scum loses is if they target the PGO. So naturally scum wants to find out if there is one.
Double killed? Lol. This is getting ridiculous. Our "doctor" claimed on Day 1 and is still alive on Day 3. The person the doctor should have protected is dead. EFHW, at the very least, you have to understand how bad this looks for you, right?
Yeah, I guess so. It depends. If they have a roleblocker then there is no point to killing me when leaving me alive looks bad and they still can get their kills through. That's the best theory, really, but the flavor made me wonder about pps targeting someone leading to his death.
I did protect pps, and am proud that I correctly read him as town, but alas my doctoring was insufficient and I don't know why.
Roleblocker does seem more likely, but there's still the asking for a PGO to claim bit.
PPE: 1
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PGO kills anyone who targets them and there is valid argument for town!pgos claiming. Also for not, claiming, which is why I said consider. PGO is negative utility for town when there are town prs. I could easily be the last one, which would mean better not to claim.
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I reread most of gkrieg (through 1154) and feel pretty convinced that he is town. He is so convinced that SA is not, that even though I reread them before and found them towny, I'll look for my notes and think about them some more. gkrieg makes a good point about RR, which is his starting the wagon on Jake and pushing it later. That is a more scum!RR thing to do, I think.
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gkrieg keeps feeling Robz is scummy. The scummiest thing for me about Robz is his defense of Eevee.
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I reread most of gkrieg (through 1154) and feel pretty convinced that he is town. He is so convinced that SA is not, that even though I reread them before and found them towny, I'll look for my notes and think about them some more. gkrieg makes a good point about RR, which is his starting the wagon on Jake and pushing it later. That is a more scum!RR thing to do, I think.
I wanted to vote RR but we decided that lynching the VLA person wasn't very nice. So I agree with the scum!RR argument.
PPE: 1
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Ha. Oh boy, here we go. RR is just such an aggressive scum player, right? Loudly pushing a wagon on a Town PR would be a strategy scum!RR would do, and on D1 nonetheless!
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I reread most of gkrieg (through 1154) and feel pretty convinced that he is town. He is so convinced that SA is not, that even though I reread them before and found them towny, I'll look for my notes and think about them some more. gkrieg makes a good point about RR, which is his starting the wagon on Jake and pushing it later. That is a more scum!RR thing to do, I think.
I also think it is interesting that IDPTG is coming out of the gates attacking you so hard.
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I reread most of gkrieg (through 1154) and feel pretty convinced that he is town. He is so convinced that SA is not, that even though I reread them before and found them towny, I'll look for my notes and think about them some more. gkrieg makes a good point about RR, which is his starting the wagon on Jake and pushing it later. That is a more scum!RR thing to do, I think.
I wanted to vote RR but we decided that lynching the VLA person wasn't very nice. So I agree with the scum!RR argument.
PPE: 1
So who do you think EFHW's and RR's other partner is?
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gkrieg keeps feeling Robz is scummy. The scummiest thing for me about Robz is his defense of Eevee.
Having I been defending Eevee? I guess I have, yeah. Probably my enthusiasm to play with him again is making me give him too much of a pass. I should definitely re read him.
And yes I realize you could have been roleblocked but aren't we operating under the assumption scum PRs are similarly constrained as town PRs. So not only would scum have to have an RB, but they would also have to have one that could hit you. We have to weigh that possible but I think smaller chance against the more obvious narrative, you just being scum.
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I mean, it's possible. I'm going to have to re read you/McG too. Mc's play was pretty scummy, which sucks for you, and consequently is, if you are town.
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Consequently us*. On phone
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Also just realized that this pretty much ICs Dylan
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Ha. Oh boy, here we go. RR is just such an aggressive scum player, right? Loudly pushing a wagon on a Town PR would be a strategy scum!RR would do, and on D1 nonetheless!
What? What are you saying?
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Also we should massclaim today
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Also just realized that this pretty much ICs Dylan
Yes, I think so
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Also we should massclaim today
Should we? Why? Assuming we don't just lose today, if we have more hidden PRs don't we want to protect them?
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While I expect major shifts over next week just a gut check on the living players (order is c&p of mod list)
GKrieg13 - null to town; expect big things in the next couple of days
Roadrunner7671 - null to town because of Jake and his meta, okay to lynch just for funnies tho
SpaceAnemone - null to scum, they are superb and looking towny and I think this could be the case; would lynch to see
McGarnacle - null to scum, still unsure about the claim but not going to lynch today as I think he can prove himself if he is what he says he is
Idontplaythisgame - null to scum, is this this game's lurker, nothing sticks out in my mind other than some Haddock style outrage and omgus in the early game, not opposed to a lynch at this point
Lekkit - town to scum, lol, no middle ground here. He says meta is overrated but lacking none makes him hard to read for me. Seems helpful like I would be if I were town. Would not lynch today.
Dylan32 - probably town
PingPongSam - so town it hurts
Robz888 - town to scum. Lean more towards town but I'm not null here, I can read scum or town into his play but there's no ho hum about it. Would not lynch today but if we mislynch again would consider it for tomorrow because I think he can drive us like that as scum.
Ok, so current pool to me is RR, SA, IDP in increasing order of preference although I hope and expect this to change once everyone gets engaged soon. Could easily be swayed on my town to scum not null reads.
Also from this I would guess that SA, IDPTG, or Robz were the people that targeted Dylan?
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Also we should massclaim today
Should we? Why? Assuming we don't just lose today, if we have more hidden PRs don't we want to protect them?
I think it is good to do with the knowledge that I just posted.
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Also we should massclaim today
Should we? Why? Assuming we don't just lose today, if we have more hidden PRs don't we want to protect them?
I think it is good to do with the knowledge that I just posted.
I agree, I think the risks of losing another PR if there are any left are dwarfed by the information we could gain.
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If we are going to do a mass claim, I propose this order:
0) EFHW - Obviously has claimed already, but I wouldn't mind EFHW reiterating all the details and any extra info McG might have left out or not realized was important. probably not necessary and doesn't have to be first, but I wouldn't mind seeing it happen.
1) Robz - because PPS seemed to imply you had targeted me
2) Gkrieg - because PPS thought you would be critical to the game and mentioned you in the same string of posts as when he was talking about me being targeted.
3) SA - way less active than our other game when they were town, feels like possible scum. PPS was very suspicious of you also, not sure if that means anything or not.
4) IDPTG - major lurking, most posts are questions about acronyms and game info. Still doesn't have a defining moment that sticks out in my mind
5) RR - I don't even know what to think. I am leaning town, but to me seems slightly more likely to be hidden PR than:
6) Eevee - Haven't seen anything that implies PR but could be scum.
7) Me - Town
Obviously I'm willing to listen to critiques of the order, but I think that is a pretty solid order.
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I like the massclaim idea, but if EFHW goes first and spills everything up front, it's too much of a template for other scums to work from. I think we should find out who's claiming to have a role first, and only then examine the details in a more careful ordering (like maybe in stages, varying which of them goes first), so we're more likely to be able to find inconsistencies.
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I like the massclaim idea, but if EFHW goes first and spills everything up front, it's too much of a template for other scums to work from. I think we should find out who's claiming to have a role first, and only then examine the details in a more careful ordering (like maybe in stages, varying which of them goes first), so we're more likely to be able to find inconsistencies.
Woah woah woah. This is never ever ever something you want to do. Tell scum how many PRs there will be and then have them claim? Uh no thanks. vote: SA
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If we are going to do a mass claim, I propose this order:
0) EFHW - Obviously has claimed already, but I wouldn't mind EFHW reiterating all the details and any extra info McG might have left out or not realized was important. probably not necessary and doesn't have to be first, but I wouldn't mind seeing it happen.
1) Robz - because PPS seemed to imply you had targeted me
2) Gkrieg - because PPS thought you would be critical to the game and mentioned you in the same string of posts as when he was talking about me being targeted.
3) SA - way less active than our other game when they were town, feels like possible scum. PPS was very suspicious of you also, not sure if that means anything or not.
4) IDPTG - major lurking, most posts are questions about acronyms and game info. Still doesn't have a defining moment that sticks out in my mind
5) RR - I don't even know what to think. I am leaning town, but to me seems slightly more likely to be hidden PR than:
6) Eevee - Haven't seen anything that implies PR but could be scum.
7) Me - Town
Obviously I'm willing to listen to critiques of the order, but I think that is a pretty solid order.
I don't think that is what PPS was implying when he said I would be pivotal. Also the fact that he town read me means that he can't have seen me targeting you
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If we are going to do a mass claim, I propose this order:
0) EFHW - Obviously has claimed already, but I wouldn't mind EFHW reiterating all the details and any extra info McG might have left out or not realized was important. probably not necessary and doesn't have to be first, but I wouldn't mind seeing it happen.
1) Robz - because PPS seemed to imply you had targeted me
2) Gkrieg - because PPS thought you would be critical to the game and mentioned you in the same string of posts as when he was talking about me being targeted.
3) SA - way less active than our other game when they were town, feels like possible scum. PPS was very suspicious of you also, not sure if that means anything or not.
4) IDPTG - major lurking, most posts are questions about acronyms and game info. Still doesn't have a defining moment that sticks out in my mind
5) RR - I don't even know what to think. I am leaning town, but to me seems slightly more likely to be hidden PR than:
6) Eevee - Haven't seen anything that implies PR but could be scum.
7) Me - Town
Obviously I'm willing to listen to critiques of the order, but I think that is a pretty solid order.
I don't think that is what PPS was implying when he said I would be pivotal. Also the fact that he town read me means that he can't have seen me targeting you
I didn't say that was specifically what he was implying on you. I should have included this, but having you that high was as much because of your interaction with Rob following PPS's comment. I just thought it made sense for the two of you to be up top with the smallest chances of benefiting from other people going first just in case, since the two of you seem to be two of the more pivotal players left alive. Also, I believe someone else did mention that PPS might have been breadcrumbing either Robz or you towards the end of D2, otherwise you being an option probably wouldn't have even crossed my mind.
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As a show of good faith, I am willing to go anywhere in the claim order without complaint.
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Also just realized that this pretty much ICs Dylan
Yes, I think so
Not following.
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No problem with going first, but I'll wait for a consensus about the order.
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gkrieg keeps feeling Robz is scummy. The scummiest thing for me about Robz is his defense of Eevee.
Having I been defending Eevee? I guess I have, yeah. Probably my enthusiasm to play with him again is making me give him too much of a pass. I should definitely re read him.
And yes I realize you could have been roleblocked but aren't we operating under the assumption scum PRs are similarly constrained as town PRs. So not only would scum have to have an RB, but they would also have to have one that could hit you. We have to weigh that possible but I think smaller chance against the more obvious narrative, you just being scum.
2/3 chance their roleblocker could hit me, assuming they have restrictions. Not so small.
Your pushing the "obvious" narrative is ringing scum bells for me. Are we going to have another go round?
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gkrieg keeps feeling Robz is scummy. The scummiest thing for me about Robz is his defense of Eevee.
Having I been defending Eevee? I guess I have, yeah. Probably my enthusiasm to play with him again is making me give him too much of a pass. I should definitely re read him.
And yes I realize you could have been roleblocked but aren't we operating under the assumption scum PRs are similarly constrained as town PRs. So not only would scum have to have an RB, but they would also have to have one that could hit you. We have to weigh that possible but I think smaller chance against the more obvious narrative, you just being scum.
2/3 chance their roleblocker could hit me, assuming they have restrictions. Not so small.
Your pushing the "obvious" narrative is ringing scum bells for me. Are we going to have another go round?
You will have to accept my apologies, but I have been pretty sure you and your predecessor are scum for a while, so I know they probably have a roleblocker. I also have reasons for thinking that's not what happened. Won't say more until after people claim.
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gkrieg keeps feeling Robz is scummy. The scummiest thing for me about Robz is his defense of Eevee.
Having I been defending Eevee? I guess I have, yeah. Probably my enthusiasm to play with him again is making me give him too much of a pass. I should definitely re read him.
And yes I realize you could have been roleblocked but aren't we operating under the assumption scum PRs are similarly constrained as town PRs. So not only would scum have to have an RB, but they would also have to have one that could hit you. We have to weigh that possible but I think smaller chance against the more obvious narrative, you just being scum.
2/3 chance their roleblocker could hit me, assuming they have restrictions. Not so small.
Your pushing the "obvious" narrative is ringing scum bells for me. Are we going to have another go round?
You will have to accept my apologies, but I have been pretty sure you and your predecessor are scum for a while, so I know they probably have a roleblocker. I also have reasons for thinking that's not what happened. Won't say more until after people claim.
That didn't exactly make sense, sorry. I know they probably have a roleblocker, but due to my strong opinion that you are scum and other factors, I highly doubt that is what happened.
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I like the massclaim idea, but if EFHW goes first and spills everything up front, it's too much of a template for other scums to work from. I think we should find out who's claiming to have a role first, and only then examine the details in a more careful ordering (like maybe in stages, varying which of them goes first), so we're more likely to be able to find inconsistencies.
Woah woah woah. This is never ever ever something you want to do. Tell scum how many PRs there will be and then have them claim? Uh no thanks. vote: SA
I think you're misunderstanding me. I mean we do a standard mass-claim, but without all the extra details that Dylan was suggesting that EFHW should give up-front. Dylan had suggested that EFHW should claim "all the details and any extra info McG might have left out or not realized was important" right at the start of the mass claim -- that's clearly the wrong way to go about it.
We have such limited set-up information that we really have to make the most of every little bit, and I think keeping the details back and then getting people to claim them in other orders, so they can't just copy other claimed PRs is really sensible. We only get one shot at this, because once the information is out there, anyone can read it.
PPE several.
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I like the massclaim idea, but if EFHW goes first and spills everything up front, it's too much of a template for other scums to work from. I think we should find out who's claiming to have a role first, and only then examine the details in a more careful ordering (like maybe in stages, varying which of them goes first), so we're more likely to be able to find inconsistencies.
Woah woah woah. This is never ever ever something you want to do. Tell scum how many PRs there will be and then have them claim? Uh no thanks. vote: SA
I think you're misunderstanding me. I mean we do a standard mass-claim, but without all the extra details that Dylan was suggesting that EFHW should give up-front. Dylan had suggested that EFHW should claim "all the details and any extra info McG might have left out or not realized was important" right at the start of the mass claim -- that's clearly the wrong way to go about it.
We have such limited set-up information that we really have to make the most of every little bit, and I think keeping the details back and then getting people to claim them in other orders, so they can't just copy other claimed PRs is really sensible. We only get one shot at this, because once the information is out there, anyone can read it.
PPE several.
Also note that I didn't say EFHW had to go first. I just listed her (correct pronoun right? if not, sorry!) first because she has to claim and I think she is scum.
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Actually, I'm not going to be able to post much until Sunday evening, so I'll claim now. There's no new information such as Space was worried about. I'm the town doctor. I can only protect people with a different card type from mine. McG did indeed target RR N1. I don't have any information about why, just the order itself. He didn't type any thoughts in his qt. Last night I reread PPS and decided he was town and protected him. Of course, I mainly expected that I would be the nk, but this way is working out much better for scum.
Questions?
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gkrieg keeps feeling Robz is scummy. The scummiest thing for me about Robz is his defense of Eevee.
Having I been defending Eevee? I guess I have, yeah. Probably my enthusiasm to play with him again is making me give him too much of a pass. I should definitely re read him.
And yes I realize you could have been roleblocked but aren't we operating under the assumption scum PRs are similarly constrained as town PRs. So not only would scum have to have an RB, but they would also have to have one that could hit you. We have to weigh that possible but I think smaller chance against the more obvious narrative, you just being scum.
2/3 chance their roleblocker could hit me, assuming they have restrictions. Not so small.
Your pushing the "obvious" narrative is ringing scum bells for me. Are we going to have another go round?
You will have to accept my apologies, but I have been pretty sure you and your predecessor are scum for a while, so I know they probably have a roleblocker. I also have reasons for thinking that's not what happened. Won't say more until after people claim.
I knew this would be a difficult gig. Interested to hear what you will have to say.
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Also, I don't think anyone should claim card types unless we have a specific reason to want to know.
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vla until tomorrow, haven't even read anything
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I like the massclaim idea, but if EFHW goes first and spills everything up front, it's too much of a template for other scums to work from. I think we should find out who's claiming to have a role first, and only then examine the details in a more careful ordering (like maybe in stages, varying which of them goes first), so we're more likely to be able to find inconsistencies.
Woah woah woah. This is never ever ever something you want to do. Tell scum how many PRs there will be and then have them claim? Uh no thanks. vote: SA
I think you're misunderstanding me. I mean we do a standard mass-claim, but without all the extra details that Dylan was suggesting that EFHW should give up-front. Dylan had suggested that EFHW should claim "all the details and any extra info McG might have left out or not realized was important" right at the start of the mass claim -- that's clearly the wrong way to go about it.
We have such limited set-up information that we really have to make the most of every little bit, and I think keeping the details back and then getting people to claim them in other orders, so they can't just copy other claimed PRs is really sensible. We only get one shot at this, because once the information is out there, anyone can read it.
PPE several.
When I'm at a computer again I'll elaborate. But maybe a vet will beat me to it. You always want the scummiest people to claim first. But claiming PR or not is always a bad way to go. If I'm a scum claiming watcher, I know after the PR claim who I can say I saw targeting someone. Obviously there are other cases of this. Being a role cop I could just claim to have targeted VTs etc.
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You always want people to claim everything they can in the assigned claim order once we agree on it so that scum can be caught in a lie easier.
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4) IDPTG - major lurking, most posts are questions about acronyms and game info. Still doesn't have a defining moment that sticks out in my mind
As I said towards the end of D2, I'm working on being more active. The lurking wasn't intentional.
If people want to massclaim, I'll go along. I mean, I already claimed so there's no new information about me.
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I reread most of gkrieg (through 1154) and feel pretty convinced that he is town. He is so convinced that SA is not, that even though I reread them before and found them towny, I'll look for my notes and think about them some more. gkrieg makes a good point about RR, which is his starting the wagon on Jake and pushing it later. That is a more scum!RR thing to do, I think.
I wanted to vote RR but we decided that lynching the VLA person wasn't very nice. So I agree with the scum!RR argument.
PPE: 1
So who do you think EFHW's and RR's other partner is?
Given his flip, I'm willing to trust PPS and go with SA. As for my going after RR immediately, I'm irked that he got taken out the pool and we mislynched. My arguments from before as to why I think RR is scum haven't changed.
The more I write about that, the less based in reason it's sounding. I'll try to organize something to make this less gut-feel-based.
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Catching up! Uh oh.
I protected PPS and he died anyway!
So, EHFW is truthful and scum has strongman or something like that (believable, since in that scenario town also has cop + doctor + watcher), or this was a planned lie (scum wanted to kill PPS, and EFHW knew she was supposed to protect him so they went this route knowing its believable).
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Double killed? Lol. This is getting ridiculous. Our "doctor" claimed on Day 1 and is still alive on Day 3. The person the doctor should have protected is dead. EFHW, at the very least, you have to understand how bad this looks for you, right?
I'm inclined to agree with this. Bringing up PGO's when we already have (from EFHW's POV) three power roles in a normal game.. I really really don't think that's what's going on.
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Ha. Oh boy, here we go. RR is just such an aggressive scum player, right? Loudly pushing a wagon on a Town PR would be a strategy scum!RR would do, and on D1 nonetheless!
Are you saying that's not the case? Can't tell!
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I reread most of gkrieg (through 1154) and feel pretty convinced that he is town. He is so convinced that SA is not, that even though I reread them before and found them towny, I'll look for my notes and think about them some more. gkrieg makes a good point about RR, which is his starting the wagon on Jake and pushing it later. That is a more scum!RR thing to do, I think.
I also think it is interesting that IDPTG is coming out of the gates attacking you so hard.
This is interesting indeed. Makes them much less likely to be scum together, at least?
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gkrieg keeps feeling Robz is scummy. The scummiest thing for me about Robz is his defense of Eevee.
Having I been defending Eevee? I guess I have, yeah. Probably my enthusiasm to play with him again is making me give him too much of a pass. I should definitely re read him.
And yes I realize you could have been roleblocked but aren't we operating under the assumption scum PRs are similarly constrained as town PRs. So not only would scum have to have an RB, but they would also have to have one that could hit you. We have to weigh that possible but I think smaller chance against the more obvious narrative, you just being scum.
I think Robz is making the sense here.
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It' a little unfortunate we have to try to piece together PPS's information from vague and subtle hints, but it is what it is.
Interestingly, I think any scum team would have wanted to kill him to bury his information, probably? Who did PPS read as town? Maybe we could try to figure out who in (if scum) would NOT want to target him?
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I'm most suspicious of RR, EFHW, SA. gkrieg seems towny, but I really have trouble reading the active movers and shakers as scum in general.. in gkrieg's case I've agreed with many of his reads and he really seems to be helping us a lot, so I'm fairly comfortable with the townread, even remembering my biases. I also reread the end of day 2, IDPTG was extremely gracious when he thought he was lynched (aww man, I was right about Lekkit too!), I don't know if I should read that as someone who got "caught" and wasn't mad because of that? Like, if you are town, and the target switches on you like that in a heartbeat just before deadline and you don't even really get to defend yourself, isn't that very frustrating? Or maybe IDPTG is just an extremely pleasant guy, anyone play dominion with and have him be super cool about having bad shuffle luck or something?
Robz is seeming towny, but man, it's always worrisome when he lives this far. Although I guess that's not really as relevant here, as PPS is such a logical kill for most teams for last night anyways.
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Also we should massclaim today
Should we? Why? Assuming we don't just lose today, if we have more hidden PRs don't we want to protect them?
I think it is good to do with the knowledge that I just posted.
I agree, I think the risks of losing another PR if there are any left are dwarfed by the information we could gain.
I still don't get it. PPS didn't think the info he had on who targeted Dylan was worth sharing, even though PPS was already outed as a PR. The only reason he had to hold that back was to protect that person, clearly another town PR. I can't think of a good reason to out that person.
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Your pushing the "obvious" narrative is ringing scum bells for me. Are we going to have another go round?
I'm not "pushing" it, I'm making sure it gets a fair hearing, because the embarrassment of losing to a scum team with a member who claimed doctor to avoid lynch on Day 1 and somehow survived the entire game despite failing to protect anyone... well, it would be humiliating.
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Your pushing the "obvious" narrative is ringing scum bells for me. Are we going to have another go round?
I'm not "pushing" it, I'm making sure it gets a fair hearing, because the embarrassment of losing to a scum team with a member who claimed doctor to avoid lynch on Day 1 and somehow survived the entire game despite failing to protect anyone... well, it would be humiliating.
If scum wanted to make us believe EFHW, they'd have to NK and have EFHW claim to protect a person that would make sense as a target for scum (unlike D1 RR). PPS fits that bill. So this could still be very contrived.
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Your pushing the "obvious" narrative is ringing scum bells for me. Are we going to have another go round?
I'm not "pushing" it, I'm making sure it gets a fair hearing, because the embarrassment of losing to a scum team with a member who claimed doctor to avoid lynch on Day 1 and somehow survived the entire game despite failing to protect anyone... well, it would be humiliating.
If scum wanted to make us believe EFHW, they'd have to NK and have EFHW claim to protect a person that would make sense as a target for scum (unlike D1 RR). PPS fits that bill. So this could still be very contrived.
I don't follow what you're saying.
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Ha. Oh boy, here we go. RR is just such an aggressive scum player, right? Loudly pushing a wagon on a Town PR would be a strategy scum!RR would do, and on D1 nonetheless!
Are you saying that's not the case? Can't tell!
That's the opposite of what I'd do as scum.
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Ha. Oh boy, here we go. RR is just such an aggressive scum player, right? Loudly pushing a wagon on a Town PR would be a strategy scum!RR would do, and on D1 nonetheless!
Are you saying that's not the case? Can't tell!
That's the opposite of what I'd do as scum.
RR, okay, this is getting ridiculous. The only thing you have to say is "Think I'm scum? Idiots!" You were barely even called out. You've really escaped attention on the whole, people talk about voting for you but they never do. You're coming across as a little paranoid, and that the thing you're thinking about most is how you look to everyone else. What are your reads? Do you believe EFHW, that's the big question of the day.
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I'm not positive I believe EFHW, but I don't want to lynch her today. I'd be shocked if scum didn't have a strongman or a roleblocker, and EFHW would be a prime target to roleblock. I'd rather have us fullclaim (partially to clear up stuff like double voting and PGOs) then go from there.
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I'm not positive I believe EFHW, but I don't want to lynch her today. I'd be shocked if scum didn't have a strongman or a roleblocker, and EFHW would be a prime target to roleblock. I'd rather have us fullclaim (partially to clear up stuff like double voting and PGOs) then go from there.
Why would we want to clear up stuff that could be useful to town? If we actually have a PGO, I mean, we're probably at the point where the PGO is a greater threat to scum than to town anyway.
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(Not that I think we have one.)
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Your pushing the "obvious" narrative is ringing scum bells for me. Are we going to have another go round?
I'm not "pushing" it, I'm making sure it gets a fair hearing, because the embarrassment of losing to a scum team with a member who claimed doctor to avoid lynch on Day 1 and somehow survived the entire game despite failing to protect anyone... well, it would be humiliating.
If scum wanted to make us believe EFHW, they'd have to NK and have EFHW claim to protect a person that would make sense as a target for scum (unlike D1 RR). PPS fits that bill. So this could still be very contrived.
I don't follow what you're saying.
Just that PPS made a good target to kill and claim to have protected.
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Let's keep in mind PPS thought there was a doctor that would protect him, and that's why he didn't share all the info. Also Robz, nothing says the person that targeted me was another town PR. He might have not been sure and erred on the the side of caution, but to say it was "clearly another town PR" is WAY overstating it...
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It sounds like there is enough support for a mass claim, and so as long as no one else is going to argue against you claiming first, you are up. Please claim sometime today (irl day, not in-game day).
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It sounds like there is enough support for a mass claim, and so as long as no one else is going to argue against you claiming first, you are up. Please claim sometime today (irl day, not in-game day).
Who is this directed toward?
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I'm still pretty opposed to a massclaim. And I certainly think we should at least to discuss it more, first.
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It sounds like there is enough support for a mass claim, and so as long as no one else is going to argue against you claiming first, you are up. Please claim sometime today (irl day, not in-game day).
Who is this directed toward?
Robz
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I'm still pretty opposed to a massclaim. And I certainly think we should at least to discuss it more, first.
The people that I'm most comfortable playing as if they are town are in favor of it, so I really want it to happen. The fact we are 2 for 2 mislynching and the info we have about what has happened at night leads me to believe that a mass claim will likely out at least one scum if not more. I don't think we have a PGO and the attempts to pin our hopes on one looks like a way to make this situation look less serious than it really is. If there isn't a PGO, and I don't think there is one, then a mislynch and a dead townie at night and town and scum are even strength by raw numbers. I think if a mass claim is going to help us, it needs to be now.
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I agree with the massclaim. Do or die here.
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I think the chance of a massclaim actually confirming anything we didn't already know is very small, and the chance of outing a helpful townie very high.
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I think the chance of a massclaim actually confirming anything we didn't already know is very small, and the chance of outing a helpful townie very high.
The more you try to fight this the more I think you are scum. How many other "helpful townie" do you think are left? 2 PRs are dead and one has claimed under very dubious circumstances and failed to do their one job somehow. The remaining "helpful townie" as you put it probably would be able to help clear up some confusion if they claimed or at least help town strategize better, so even outing any remaining town PRs is probably still going to be more helpful and important than staying hidden.
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I think the chance of a massclaim actually confirming anything we didn't already know is very small, and the chance of outing a helpful townie very high.
The more you try to fight this the more I think you are scum. How many other "helpful townie" do you think are left? 2 PRs are dead and one has claimed under very dubious circumstances and failed to do their one job somehow. The remaining "helpful townie" as you put it probably would be able to help clear up some confusion if they claimed or at least help town strategize better, so even outing any remaining town PRs is probably still going to be more helpful and important than staying hidden.
lol tried to use [ s ] to add in an "s" to your quote and instead ended up strikethrough
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I think the chance of a massclaim actually confirming anything we didn't already know is very small, and the chance of outing a helpful townie very high.
The more you try to fight this the more I think you are scum. How many other "helpful townie" do you think are left? 2 PRs are dead and one has claimed under very dubious circumstances and failed to do their one job somehow. The remaining "helpful townie" as you put it probably would be able to help clear up some confusion if they claimed or at least help town strategize better, so even outing any remaining town PRs is probably still going to be more helpful and important than staying hidden.
lol tried to use [ s ] to add in an "s" to your quote and instead ended up strikethrough
Well, I have a good reason to fight this but I assume scum have probably figured it out by now, so I guess there's no point holding out any longer.
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I am a Jailkeeper.
I jailed Dylan on Night 1, because he seemed kind of townie and I wanted to protect him, but also he didn't garner much suspicion so it's possible he would be scum doing the night kill, if scum. I am the same card type as McEFHW so trying to protect the claimed doctor was never a possibility.
Last night I didn't really consider jailing PPS because I thought McEFHW would protect him and I also didn't want to block his night action. It didn't seem like there was any particularly good choice, I thought scum would be shooting McEFHW if McEFHW was for real, and there's nothing I could do to stop that except jail the shooter. I picked RR.
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I can only successfully jail people who don't share my card type, if that wasn't clear. I don't know if any of my shots had any effect or not.
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Vote: Robz
He's not the jailkeeper. I am. I'll detail more actions later, but there it is!
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Vote: Dylan
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Vote: Robz
He's not the jailkeeper. I am. I'll detail more actions later, but there it is!
No, now. If you knew what your actions were you could say them right now.
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Interesting
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Ok. Night one I tried to Jailkeep McG, because if he was a scum PR I wanted him blocked, but if he was town I wanted him alive. However, I am a treasure card which is what McG claimed, and so I didn't expect it to succeed but I had no idea what else to do, so I tried anyway. I targeted you last night because with Cop dead, PPS dead, and myself, and possibly a doc, based on PPS I guessed you were a scum PR.
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Vote: Robz
He's not the jailkeeper. I am. I'll detail more actions later, but there it is!
No, now. If you knew what your actions were you could say them right now.
And the reason I initially said later was to withhold more info from your scum buddies to make them also claim without the extra info.
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As far as I can tell, either A) McG lied and is scum, B) he told the truth and scum killed calm instead for WIFOM, or C) he told the truth, scum attacked him but the attack was redirected.
I really don't think it was possible to have the scum NK blocked and Calm taken out by either a town or scum PR. If McG is the doctor, the only ways Calm could have been killed by a PR would be if the scum NK was blocked. That would mean they either targeted McG and someone protected him, or they targeted RR and McG's protection stopped it. As has been established, RR would have been a very random target at best, so that possibility seems pretty unlikely. Next, there would have to be 2 protective town PRs for McG to be protected. If somehow town has 2 protective roles like doctor and a jailkeeper or something, I would bet they would not be allowed to protect each other, maybe by being the same card type, which sounds like a common restriction in this setup. So the odds McG was protected seems slim at best.
For this reason, I think Calamitas was killed by scum either directly or by a redirection, not by a PR.
(and if McG actually did successfully protect RR, that has to be one of the luckiest random saves ever!)
Note this breadcrumb I dropped as to why I could be in my analysis of N1 and why I suspected that McG had not been targeted by scum.
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Vote Count 3.1
SpaceAnemone (1): GKrieg13
Robz888 (1): Dylan32
Dylan32 (1): Robz888
Not Voting (5): Roadrunner7671, EFHW, SpaceAnemone, Eevee, IDontPlayThisGame
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 3 starts ends 10th of December at 3 pm.
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As far as I can tell, either A) McG lied and is scum, B) he told the truth and scum killed calm instead for WIFOM, or C) he told the truth, scum attacked him but the attack was redirected.
I really don't think it was possible to have the scum NK blocked and Calm taken out by either a town or scum PR. If McG is the doctor, the only ways Calm could have been killed by a PR would be if the scum NK was blocked. That would mean they either targeted McG and someone protected him, or they targeted RR and McG's protection stopped it. As has been established, RR would have been a very random target at best, so that possibility seems pretty unlikely. Next, there would have to be 2 protective town PRs for McG to be protected. If somehow town has 2 protective roles like doctor and a jailkeeper or something, I would bet they would not be allowed to protect each other, maybe by being the same card type, which sounds like a common restriction in this setup. So the odds McG was protected seems slim at best.
For this reason, I think Calamitas was killed by scum either directly or by a redirection, not by a PR.
(and if McG actually did successfully protect RR, that has to be one of the luckiest random saves ever!)
Note this breadcrumb I dropped as to why I could be in my analysis of N1 and why I suspected that McG had not been targeted by scum.
Sorry, I'm thinking faster than I'm typing... I meant "as to why I could be sure"
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Also, in all my accusations of McG, I implied that I knew there was another PR with some protective ability. There was no evidence in the thread that would have led anyone to assume that, except for the fact I knew my own role.
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As far as I can tell, either A) McG lied and is scum, B) he told the truth and scum killed calm instead for WIFOM, or C) he told the truth, scum attacked him but the attack was redirected.
I really don't think it was possible to have the scum NK blocked and Calm taken out by either a town or scum PR. If McG is the doctor, the only ways Calm could have been killed by a PR would be if the scum NK was blocked. That would mean they either targeted McG and someone protected him, or they targeted RR and McG's protection stopped it. As has been established, RR would have been a very random target at best, so that possibility seems pretty unlikely. Next, there would have to be 2 protective town PRs for McG to be protected. If somehow town has 2 protective roles like doctor and a jailkeeper or something, I would bet they would not be allowed to protect each other, maybe by being the same card type, which sounds like a common restriction in this setup. So the odds McG was protected seems slim at best.
For this reason, I think Calamitas was killed by scum either directly or by a redirection, not by a PR.
(and if McG actually did successfully protect RR, that has to be one of the luckiest random saves ever!)
Note this breadcrumb I dropped as to why I could be in my analysis of N1 and why I suspected that McG had not been targeted by scum.
I noticed it when you said it, given that I was the jailkeeper and had just targeted you! But it doesn't really help your claim.
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And with regard to possibly protecting PPS, as I said earlier, I really think there is someone else who can do that.
Evidence of prior post ^. In a way, I was thinking scum would have picked up on this and targeted me instead of pps thinking I would be protecting him, but I was obviously and sadly wrong.
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And with regard to possibly protecting PPS, as I said earlier, I really think there is someone else who can do that.
Evidence of prior post ^. In a way, I was thinking scum would have picked up on this and targeted me instead of pps thinking I would be protecting him, but I was obviously and sadly wrong.
Maybe they didn't because you are the scum.
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In fact, I recall you being 99% certain EFHW was lying scum yesterday. For a little while, I thought you were subtly trying to suggest YOU were the doctor, and McEFHW a liar, during this exchange:
Welcome to the game, EFHW!
Dylan, so, you are absolutely 100% convinced McG/EFHW is scum. Let me ask you this... did you think McG/EFHW was lying yesterday? Or is this a new opinion you have? I can't recall what you said about McG/EFHW yesterday.
And really, I would say I'm 95-99% sure. I know there is a very slight chance that I'm wrong, but I truly don't think I am; and if I am wrong, I willingly concede that I will have 0 credibility for the rest of the game.
So let me get this straight, you were 99% certain the person who claimed doctor was lying, but then you decided NOT to protect PPS, the person who would obviously be the target in the event the claimed doctor was lying?
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In fact, I recall you being 99% certain EFHW was lying scum yesterday. For a little while, I thought you were subtly trying to suggest YOU were the doctor, and McEFHW a liar, during this exchange:
Welcome to the game, EFHW!
Dylan, so, you are absolutely 100% convinced McG/EFHW is scum. Let me ask you this... did you think McG/EFHW was lying yesterday? Or is this a new opinion you have? I can't recall what you said about McG/EFHW yesterday.
And really, I would say I'm 95-99% sure. I know there is a very slight chance that I'm wrong, but I truly don't think I am; and if I am wrong, I willingly concede that I will have 0 credibility for the rest of the game.
So let me get this straight, you were 99% certain the person who claimed doctor was lying, but then you decided NOT to protect PPS, the person who would obviously be the target in the event the claimed doctor was lying?
WIFOM. I hoped my emphasis would draw the attention towards myself instead of PPS, and then instead of blocking him and dying he would gain info from the night. As I said, I guessed wrong.
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Apparently I didn't bring enough attention to myself for that to work.
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You were just setting yourself up for a fake claim. The reason your half-hearted attempts to claim some kind of protective role were ignored by scum is that YOU, yourself, are scum.
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You were just setting yourself up for a fake claim. The reason your half-hearted attempts to claim some kind of protective role were ignored by scum is that YOU, yourself, are scum.
You honestly think I'm experienced enough to pull something like that? You're funny. If I were scum, why on earth would I counter-claim you, who within a few hours ago agreed with gkrieg that PPS's flip made me an IC? You and gkrieg would be the LAST 2 people I would turn on this close early in the claim.
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You were just setting yourself up for a fake claim. The reason your half-hearted attempts to claim some kind of protective role were ignored by scum is that YOU, yourself, are scum.
You honestly think I'm experienced enough to pull something like that? You're funny. If I were scum, why on earth would I counter-claim you, who within a few hours ago agreed with gkrieg that PPS's flip made me an IC? You and gkrieg would be the LAST 2 people I would turn on this close early in the claim.
But it's not that hard, and you have partners to help guide you. You did all of that breadcrumbing on Day 2, anyway. You're counterclaiming me here because scum only need one more mislynch to win, so it doesn't matter in the long run.
I was wrong to think that, as was gkrieg.
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You were just setting yourself up for a fake claim. The reason your half-hearted attempts to claim some kind of protective role were ignored by scum is that YOU, yourself, are scum.
You honestly think I'm experienced enough to pull something like that? You're funny. If I were scum, why on earth would I counter-claim you, who within a few hours ago agreed with gkrieg that PPS's flip made me an IC? You and gkrieg would be the LAST 2 people I would turn on this close early in the claim.
But it's not that hard, and you have partners to help guide you. You did all of that breadcrumbing on Day 2, anyway. You're counterclaiming me here because scum only need one more mislynch to win, so it doesn't matter in the long run.
I was wrong to think that, as was gkrieg.
If I had partners, I suppose you would indeed be right, but you are lying through your teeth and you know it. You knew you had to claim a PR or you would get lynched, and Jailkeeper seemed like a safe bet to claim and it seemed probable enough that it could be in a game with a cop and tracker. If you had claimed any other role I would have held my tongue and waited to see what everyone else said, but I couldn't sit back and let people start to think about the game assuming you were the jailkeeper. If they buy your claim then you (scum) have already won.
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On another note, the fact that Robz did claim a type of roleblocker does make me hesitate and accept that it is *possible* that EFHW really is the doc and was roleblocked. I still think she is scum, but I'm slightly less sure than I previously was.
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You were just setting yourself up for a fake claim. The reason your half-hearted attempts to claim some kind of protective role were ignored by scum is that YOU, yourself, are scum.
You honestly think I'm experienced enough to pull something like that? You're funny. If I were scum, why on earth would I counter-claim you, who within a few hours ago agreed with gkrieg that PPS's flip made me an IC? You and gkrieg would be the LAST 2 people I would turn on this close early in the claim.
But it's not that hard, and you have partners to help guide you. You did all of that breadcrumbing on Day 2, anyway. You're counterclaiming me here because scum only need one more mislynch to win, so it doesn't matter in the long run.
I was wrong to think that, as was gkrieg.
If I had partners, I suppose you would indeed be right, but you are lying through your teeth and you know it. You knew you had to claim a PR or you would get lynched, and Jailkeeper seemed like a safe bet to claim and it seemed probable enough that it could be in a game with a cop and tracker. If you had claimed any other role I would have held my tongue and waited to see what everyone else said, but I couldn't sit back and let people start to think about the game assuming you were the jailkeeper. If they buy your claim then you (scum) have already won.
I knew I had to claim the PR I actually have, because it's almost always bad to lie as town (though I considered lying anyway, I really want to keep my protective powers secret so they could be helpful, unlike you who loudly hinted at your fake powers).
You say I "knew you had to claim a PR or you would get lynched," but that's not true. Why is that true?
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You were just setting yourself up for a fake claim. The reason your half-hearted attempts to claim some kind of protective role were ignored by scum is that YOU, yourself, are scum.
You honestly think I'm experienced enough to pull something like that? You're funny. If I were scum, why on earth would I counter-claim you, who within a few hours ago agreed with gkrieg that PPS's flip made me an IC? You and gkrieg would be the LAST 2 people I would turn on this close early in the claim.
But it's not that hard, and you have partners to help guide you. You did all of that breadcrumbing on Day 2, anyway. You're counterclaiming me here because scum only need one more mislynch to win, so it doesn't matter in the long run.
I was wrong to think that, as was gkrieg.
If I had partners, I suppose you would indeed be right, but you are lying through your teeth and you know it. You knew you had to claim a PR or you would get lynched, and Jailkeeper seemed like a safe bet to claim and it seemed probable enough that it could be in a game with a cop and tracker. If you had claimed any other role I would have held my tongue and waited to see what everyone else said, but I couldn't sit back and let people start to think about the game assuming you were the jailkeeper. If they buy your claim then you (scum) have already won.
I knew I had to claim the PR I actually have, because it's almost always bad to lie as town (though I considered lying anyway, I really want to keep my protective powers secret so they could be helpful, unlike you who loudly hinted at your fake powers).
You say I "knew you had to claim a PR or you would get lynched," but that's not true. Why is that true?
The fact that PPS seemed to implicate you in targeting me somehow was pointed out by several people, and so to blatantly say you didn't do anything would probably convince those people (myself included) think you were scum. So I guess it might not have been a for sure lynch, but it was easily a way better play for scum!you to claim PR than VT.
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Ok. Night one I tried to Jailkeep McG, because if he was a scum PR I wanted him blocked, but if he was town I wanted him alive. However, I am a treasure card which is what McG claimed, and so I didn't expect it to succeed but I had no idea what else to do, so I tried anyway. I targeted you last night because with Cop dead, PPS dead, and myself, and possibly a doc, based on PPS I guessed you were a scum PR.
The last sentence here doesn't make sense. It sounds like you already knew pps was dead when you decided to target Robz.
It's also strange that you would bother targeting, McG when you knew there would be no effect.
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Where did PPS implicate me in targeting you? The only one who seemed to pick up on that was you, probably because you guys have some kind of detection PR among the scum.
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Ok. Night one I tried to Jailkeep McG, because if he was a scum PR I wanted him blocked, but if he was town I wanted him alive. However, I am a treasure card which is what McG claimed, and so I didn't expect it to succeed but I had no idea what else to do, so I tried anyway. I targeted you last night because with Cop dead, PPS dead, and myself, and possibly a doc, based on PPS I guessed you were a scum PR.
The last sentence here doesn't make sense. It sounds like you already knew pps was dead when you decided to target Robz.
It's also strange that you would bother targeting, McG when you knew there would be no effect.
The second thing is strange. The first thing is a slamdunk though. Good work, EFHW. I missed that myself.
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It sounded to me like Space was being suspected as pps's target as much or more than Robz. You would have to pick the first pr claim to fake because there might not be any others. And this mass claim was mostly your doing.
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Ok. Night one I tried to Jailkeep McG, because if he was a scum PR I wanted him blocked, but if he was town I wanted him alive. However, I am a treasure card which is what McG claimed, and so I didn't expect it to succeed but I had no idea what else to do, so I tried anyway. I targeted you last night because with Cop dead, PPS dead, and myself, and possibly a doc, based on PPS I guessed you were a scum PR.
The last sentence here doesn't make sense. It sounds like you already knew pps was dead when you decided to target Robz.
It's also strange that you would bother targeting, McG when you knew there would be no effect.
You're right, I meant with PPS a claimed PR that I believed to be town, not dead, again, I'm thinking faster than my hands can keep up. Also, since I believed McG was lying, I thought there was a chance he lied about card type too!
PPE 3
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About Dylan being targeted, if by scum, could be a RB. Dylan was read as town yesterday and some folks came out and said as much (probably myself included). Those could be the suspects if my suspicions are true. Pretty sure Robz was one of those people.
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About Dylan being targeted, if by scum, could be a RB. Dylan was read as town yesterday and some folks came out and said as much (probably myself included). Those could be the suspects if my suspicions are true. Pretty sure Robz was one of those people.
What do yo think this says?
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On another note, the fact that Robz did claim a type of roleblocker does make me hesitate and accept that it is *possible* that EFHW really is the doc and was roleblocked. I still think she is scum, but I'm slightly less sure than I previously was.
If Robz is fakeclaiming, why would that make it more likely that I'm telling the truth?
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However, the fact EFHW was so quick to jump in with Robz is undoing the pause in my mind. There are 2 of the 3? scum. The only problem is that if I end up getting lynched because I don't know how to proofread (there's plenty of evidence for that too apparently...) then you all will realize I was right too late...
PPE 2
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While I expect major shifts over next week just a gut check on the living players (order is c&p of mod list)
GKrieg13 - null to town; expect big things in the next couple of days
Roadrunner7671 - null to town because of Jake and his meta, okay to lynch just for funnies tho
SpaceAnemone - null to scum, they are superb and looking towny and I think this could be the case; would lynch to see
McGarnacle - null to scum, still unsure about the claim but not going to lynch today as I think he can prove himself if he is what he says he is
Idontplaythisgame - null to scum, is this this game's lurker, nothing sticks out in my mind other than some Haddock style outrage and omgus in the early game, not opposed to a lynch at this point
Lekkit - town to scum, lol, no middle ground here. He says meta is overrated but lacking none makes him hard to read for me. Seems helpful like I would be if I were town. Would not lynch today.
Dylan32 - probably town
PingPongSam - so town it hurts
Robz888 - town to scum. Lean more towards town but I'm not null here, I can read scum or town into his play but there's no ho hum about it. Would not lynch today but if we mislynch again would consider it for tomorrow because I think he can drive us like that as scum.
Ok, so current pool to me is RR, SA, IDP in increasing order of preference although I hope and expect this to change once everyone gets engaged soon. Could easily be swayed on my town to scum not null reads.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by the section on SA. Would it be a fair translation to say you think they have played well to look towny, for that reason are scummy, and you think it is the case that it is intentional and not just them actually being town? I just want to make sure I'm picking up what you are throwing down.
The typo correction is "superb at looking towny". When I read SA I can see scum playing town well. That said, I think SA has asked key questions and moved on in ways that I think scum would have continued to press.
Considering this was PPS's previous post, the SA part wasn't about the targeting at all, so I'm gonna say it was you
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While I expect major shifts over next week just a gut check on the living players (order is c&p of mod list)
GKrieg13 - null to town; expect big things in the next couple of days
Roadrunner7671 - null to town because of Jake and his meta, okay to lynch just for funnies tho
SpaceAnemone - null to scum, they are superb and looking towny and I think this could be the case; would lynch to see
McGarnacle - null to scum, still unsure about the claim but not going to lynch today as I think he can prove himself if he is what he says he is
Idontplaythisgame - null to scum, is this this game's lurker, nothing sticks out in my mind other than some Haddock style outrage and omgus in the early game, not opposed to a lynch at this point
Lekkit - town to scum, lol, no middle ground here. He says meta is overrated but lacking none makes him hard to read for me. Seems helpful like I would be if I were town. Would not lynch today.
Dylan32 - probably town
PingPongSam - so town it hurts
Robz888 - town to scum. Lean more towards town but I'm not null here, I can read scum or town into his play but there's no ho hum about it. Would not lynch today but if we mislynch again would consider it for tomorrow because I think he can drive us like that as scum.
Ok, so current pool to me is RR, SA, IDP in increasing order of preference although I hope and expect this to change once everyone gets engaged soon. Could easily be swayed on my town to scum not null reads.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by the section on SA. Would it be a fair translation to say you think they have played well to look towny, for that reason are scummy, and you think it is the case that it is intentional and not just them actually being town? I just want to make sure I'm picking up what you are throwing down.
The typo correction is "superb at looking towny". When I read SA I can see scum playing town well. That said, I think SA has asked key questions and moved on in ways that I think scum would have continued to press.
Considering this was PPS's previous post, the SA part wasn't about the targeting at all, so I'm gonna say it was you
If he saw you perform an action, then he would know you weren't ho hum and would obviously could have a theory that just as easily shows you as town or scum, hence his read.
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Why would you as jk want a mass claim so badly?
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Why aren't Robz and Dylan voting each other?
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[/s] that.
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Let's hear from more people. I see a bunch of you are following this.
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Why would you as jk want a mass claim so badly?
Because I thought it was very likely that it would catch a scum. I was right, and I wanted to claim d2 to support my arguments, but since pps thought it would be bad to out another pr, so I waited. A mass claim would be the best way to get useful info from my classroom.
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Why would you as jk want a mass claim so badly?
Because I thought it was very likely that it would catch a scum. I was right, and I wanted to claim d2 to support my arguments, but since pps thought it would be bad to out another pr, so I waited. A mass claim would be the best way to get useful info from my classroom.
Last typo was because of phone...
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I am a Jailkeeper.
I jailed Dylan on Night 1, because he seemed kind of townie and I wanted to protect him, but also he didn't garner much suspicion so it's possible he would be scum doing the night kill, if scum. I am the same card type as McEFHW so trying to protect the claimed doctor was never a possibility.
Last night I didn't really consider jailing PPS because I thought McEFHW would protect him and I also didn't want to block his night action. It didn't seem like there was any particularly good choice, I thought scum would be shooting McEFHW if McEFHW was for real, and there's nothing I could do to stop that except jail the shooter. I picked RR.
Sounds here like you basically believed I was town, since that assumption was key to two of your decisions.
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So how balanced a game would we have if there's a Tracker, a Cop, a Jailkeeper and a Doctor? Or how OP would scum have to be?
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I am a Jailkeeper.
I jailed Dylan on Night 1, because he seemed kind of townie and I wanted to protect him, but also he didn't garner much suspicion so it's possible he would be scum doing the night kill, if scum. I am the same card type as McEFHW so trying to protect the claimed doctor was never a possibility.
Last night I didn't really consider jailing PPS because I thought McEFHW would protect him and I also didn't want to block his night action. It didn't seem like there was any particularly good choice, I thought scum would be shooting McEFHW if McEFHW was for real, and there's nothing I could do to stop that except jail the shooter. I picked RR.
Sounds here like you basically believed I was town, since that assumption was key to two of your decisions.
Not exactly, I've gone back and forth on you a lot. I keep starting the day extremely suspicious of you for surviving and then that kind of lessons when you present all these reasons it could make just as much sense to frame you.
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So how balanced a game would we have if there's a Tracker, a Cop, a Jailkeeper and a Doctor? Or how OP would scum have to be?
Well, they are all only 2/3 effective, which I can see a moderator thinking is sufficiently mitigating. I mean, there *is* a Tracker, Cop, and Jailkeeper. The only open question is whether there's also a Doctor.
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So how balanced a game would we have if there's a Tracker, a Cop, a Jailkeeper and a Doctor? Or how OP would scum have to be?
Well, they are all only 2/3 effective, which I can see a moderator thinking is sufficiently mitigating. I mean, there *is* a Tracker, Cop, and Jailkeeper. The only open question is whether there's also a Doctor.
Okay, so if we have lots of town PRs, is scum likely to be similarly armed? If so, how did McEFHW even survive N1?
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So how balanced a game would we have if there's a Tracker, a Cop, a Jailkeeper and a Doctor? Or how OP would scum have to be?
Well, they are all only 2/3 effective, which I can see a moderator thinking is sufficiently mitigating. I mean, there *is* a Tracker, Cop, and Jailkeeper. The only open question is whether there's also a Doctor.
Okay, so if we have lots of town PRs, is scum likely to be similarly armed? If so, how did McEFHW even survive N1?
You trying to distract us from the issue at hand--Dylan being lying scum--makes me think you're his partner.
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So how balanced a game would we have if there's a Tracker, a Cop, a Jailkeeper and a Doctor? Or how OP would scum have to be?
Well, they are all only 2/3 effective, which I can see a moderator thinking is sufficiently mitigating. I mean, there *is* a Tracker, Cop, and Jailkeeper. The only open question is whether there's also a Doctor.
Okay, so if we have lots of town PRs, is scum likely to be similarly armed? If so, how did McEFHW even survive N1?
You trying to distract us from the issue at hand--Dylan being lying scum--makes me think you're his partner.
Or maybe you're the scum and EFHW is the person you're trying to draw attention away from.
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So how balanced a game would we have if there's a Tracker, a Cop, a Jailkeeper and a Doctor? Or how OP would scum have to be?
Well, they are all only 2/3 effective, which I can see a moderator thinking is sufficiently mitigating. I mean, there *is* a Tracker, Cop, and Jailkeeper. The only open question is whether there's also a Doctor.
Okay, so if we have lots of town PRs, is scum likely to be similarly armed? If so, how did McEFHW even survive N1?
You trying to distract us from the issue at hand--Dylan being lying scum--makes me think you're his partner.
Very, very true. Although I'm still not sure who's lying, Robz or Dylan.
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I don't think there are an even number of each type of card, so it really isn't 2/3. Also, for full disclosure, my QT doesn't say I can't target "cards" that share a type, it says "the card" that you share a type with. Robz simply said he shared a type with McEFHW without saying specifically what it was, which would be the case if he didn't want to go back and check what it was, so really you didn't even fully claim.
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So how balanced a game would we have if there's a Tracker, a Cop, a Jailkeeper and a Doctor? Or how OP would scum have to be?
Well, they are all only 2/3 effective, which I can see a moderator thinking is sufficiently mitigating. I mean, there *is* a Tracker, Cop, and Jailkeeper. The only open question is whether there's also a Doctor.
Okay, so if we have lots of town PRs, is scum likely to be similarly armed? If so, how did McEFHW even survive N1?
You trying to distract us from the issue at hand--Dylan being lying scum--makes me think you're his partner.
Very, very true. Although I'm still not sure who's lying, Robz or Dylan.
Agreed. I'm going to have to do a reread at some point
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I'm definitely leaning on the side that Robz is lying. It could also be a gambit and both are lying and EFHW is the third scum.
I just don't think Dylan decides to 1v1 with a vet, but I can see Robz deciding to claim in case of a 1v1.
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I don't think there are an even number of each type of card, so it really isn't 2/3. Also, for full disclosure, my QT doesn't say I can't target "cards" that share a type, it says "the card" that you share a type with. Robz simply said he shared a type with McEFHW without saying specifically what it was, which would be the case if he didn't want to go back and check what it was, so really you didn't even fully claim.
I mean, if you want to get even more pointlessly technical, mine doesn't say I can't target a card I share a type with, it says my power won't work on a card I share a type with. Which I presume you know and is actually what you meant, so you're trying to make nothing into something here.
And "I am a Treasure" is the only possible implication of what I said, didn't know I had to be even more direct.
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So how balanced a game would we have if there's a Tracker, a Cop, a Jailkeeper and a Doctor? Or how OP would scum have to be?
Well, they are all only 2/3 effective, which I can see a moderator thinking is sufficiently mitigating. I mean, there *is* a Tracker, Cop, and Jailkeeper. The only open question is whether there's also a Doctor.
Okay, so if we have lots of town PRs, is scum likely to be similarly armed? If so, how did McEFHW even survive N1?
You trying to distract us from the issue at hand--Dylan being lying scum--makes me think you're his partner.
Very, very true. Although I'm still not sure who's lying, Robz or Dylan.
How is this distracting from the issue? The issue is finding scum, since Robz has outed himself, now we are finding his team.
This actually makes space look more townie to me, because that is a good point. Regardless of which of us *cough* Robz *cough*, to maintain balance scum would probably need 2 PRs, making EFHW less likely to survive if she is telling the truth. If she is lying though, a cop, tracker, and jailkeeper (all with limitations) would be pretty fairly balanced by a scum roleblocker I guess.
PPE 2
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It could be both of them. That would be a hoot.
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I don't think there are an even number of each type of card, so it really isn't 2/3. Also, for full disclosure, my QT doesn't say I can't target "cards" that share a type, it says "the card" that you share a type with. Robz simply said he shared a type with McEFHW without saying specifically what it was, which would be the case if he didn't want to go back and check what it was, so really you didn't even fully claim.
I mean, if you want to get even more pointlessly technical, mine doesn't say I can't target a card I share a type with, it says my power won't work on a card I share a type with. Which I presume you know and is actually what you meant, so you're trying to make nothing into something here.
And "I am a Treasure" is the only possible implication of what I said, didn't know I had to be even more direct.
No, because "the card" implies the presence of only one other treasure card. McG claimed treasure, and considering QT stuff I can't talk quote, I know that part of the claim was true. So I think you just said it matched in order to leave it open to whatever had been claimed before without having to look it up so that you could use the defense you just did.
PPE 1
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Meaning both scum, that is.
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I'm definitely leaning on the side that Robz is lying. It could also be a gambit and both are lying and EFHW is the third scum.
I just don't think Dylan decides to 1v1 with a vet, but I can see Robz deciding to claim in case of a 1v1.
No Jailkeeper AND no Doctor? Now you have an underpowered town.
Anyway, obviously I see why you would think scum!Dylan counterclaiming me unlikely, it's definitely a bold move. But you have to see why it's a good one: he just straight up wins the game (I think?) if he's believed, and for the reasons you just stated, he's definitely got a good shot at being believed. He's feeling comfortable because he was setting up his little protection fake claim for a while now, and he has his buddies to tell him how to play it. For all I know they've known about me being a JK for a while, and so were ready to rehearse this exact event.
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Meaning both scum, that is.
I think that's very possible. Either way, we're definitely lynching one of them today.
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My pm also says the card, but it feels like an effect of English not being Lalight's first language (though he writes it very well in general).
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My pm also says the card, but it feels like an effect of English not being Lalight's first language (though he writes it very well in general).
Same.
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But how sid Dylan know this if he is lying?
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But how sid Dylan know this if he is lying?
Cause he's not lying and Robz is scum.
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But how sid Dylan know this if he is lying?
Cause he's not lying and Robz is scum.
Or because the scum have PRs, they have the same limitations, and it's phrased the same way?
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I don't think there are an even number of each type of card, so it really isn't 2/3. Also, for full disclosure, my QT doesn't say I can't target "cards" that share a type, it says "the card" that you share a type with. Robz simply said he shared a type with McEFHW without saying specifically what it was, which would be the case if he didn't want to go back and check what it was, so really you didn't even fully claim.
I mean, if you want to get even more pointlessly technical, mine doesn't say I can't target a card I share a type with, it says my power won't work on a card I share a type with. Which I presume you know and is actually what you meant, so you're trying to make nothing into something here.
And "I am a Treasure" is the only possible implication of what I said, didn't know I had to be even more direct.
No, because "the card" implies the presence of only one other treasure card. McG claimed treasure, and considering QT stuff I can't talk quote, I know that part of the claim was true. So I think you just said it matched in order to leave it open to whatever had been claimed before without having to look it up so that you could use the defense you just did.
PPE 1
I am confused ny the bolded part above.
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I don't think there are an even number of each type of card, so it really isn't 2/3. Also, for full disclosure, my QT doesn't say I can't target "cards" that share a type, it says "the card" that you share a type with. Robz simply said he shared a type with McEFHW without saying specifically what it was, which would be the case if he didn't want to go back and check what it was, so really you didn't even fully claim.
I mean, if you want to get even more pointlessly technical, mine doesn't say I can't target
My pm also says the card, but it feels like an effect of English not being Lalight's first language (though he writes it very well in general).
Same.
I share a type with, it says my power won't work on a card I share a type with. Which I presume you know and is actually what you meant, so you're trying to make nothing into something here.
And "I am a Treasure" is the only possible implication of what I said, didn't know I had to be even more direct.
So which is it Robz? Does your QT say a card or the card? If EFHW and I are the only 2 treasure cards, it would make sense for the two of us to say the while everyone else's says a. Now I know there is only one way you would answer this question, but the fact you've said both says a lot.
PPE 1
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I'm definitely leaning on the side that Robz is lying. It could also be a gambit and both are lying and EFHW is the third scum.
I just don't think Dylan decides to 1v1 with a vet, but I can see Robz deciding to claim in case of a 1v1.
No Jailkeeper AND no Doctor? Now you have an underpowered town.
Anyway, obviously I see why you would think scum!Dylan counterclaiming me unlikely, it's definitely a bold move. But you have to see why it's a good one: he just straight up wins the game (I think?) if he's believed, and for the reasons you just stated, he's definitely got a good shot at being believed. He's feeling comfortable because he was setting up his little protection fake claim for a while now, and he has his buddies to tell him how to play it. For all I know they've known about me being a JK for a while, and so were ready to rehearse this exact event.
Well we haven't finished the mass claim! Also just a tracker and vanilla cop is pretty powerful already. I'm still leaning toward you being scum. I just don't think Dylan would pull this kind of thing where I think you would.
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Let me get this straight, Dylan: You thought because of the wording there was only one other Treasure card, that your PR wouldn't work on this Treasure card, and then on Night 1 you decided to target this person--the only person your power wouldn't work on?
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So which is it Robz? Does your QT say a card or the card? If EFHW and I are the only 2 treasure cards, it would make sense for the two of us to say the while everyone else's says a. Now I know there is only one way you would answer this question, but the fact you've said both says a lot.
PPE 1
It says a card, but I did not construe that to mean there was only one other card
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I don't think there are an even number of each type of card, so it really isn't 2/3. Also, for full disclosure, my QT doesn't say I can't target "cards" that share a type, it says "the card" that you share a type with. Robz simply said he shared a type with McEFHW without saying specifically what it was, which would be the case if he didn't want to go back and check what it was, so really you didn't even fully claim.
I mean, if you want to get even more pointlessly technical, mine doesn't say I can't target a card I share a type with, it says my power won't work on a card I share a type with. Which I presume you know and is actually what you meant, so you're trying to make nothing into something here.
And "I am a Treasure" is the only possible implication of what I said, didn't know I had to be even more direct.
No, because "the card" implies the presence of only one other treasure card. McG claimed treasure, and considering QT stuff I can't talk quote, I know that part of the claim was true. So I think you just said it matched in order to leave it open to whatever had been claimed before without having to look it up so that you could use the defense you just did.
PPE 1
I am confused ny the bolded part above.
I'm not sure how much I can say, but an interaction between LL and I in the QT indirectly confirmed to me that you were telling the truth about being a treasure.
PPE3
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Let me get this straight, Dylan: You thought because of the wording there was only one other Treasure card, that your PR wouldn't work on this Treasure card, and then on Night 1 you decided to target this person--the only person your power wouldn't work on?
I thought that person was lying, so I did indeed try to use my power on that person. Already explained this.
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My pm also says the card, but it feels like an effect of English not being Lalight's first language (though he writes it very well in general).
Same.
Same, but now you say it says "a" not "the"?
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So which is it Robz? Does your QT say a card or the card? If EFHW and I are the only 2 treasure cards, it would make sense for the two of us to say the while everyone else's says a. Now I know there is only one way you would answer this question, but the fact you've said both says a lot.
PPE 1
It says a card, but I did not construe that to mean there was only one other card
How would you construe "a card" to mean only other one? That wouldn't make sense. "The card" is what I'm saying and that does imply one other card.
If 2 treasure cards both said "the card" (see EFHW quote above), but your card of allegedly the same type says something different, and considering the fact that most people probably use copy and paste for the redundant bits of the QTs, I think it is very unlikely that you are telling the truth about being a treasure card.
PPE1
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My pm also says the card, but it feels like an effect of English not being Lalight's first language (though he writes it very well in general).
Same.
Same, but now you say it says "a" not "the"?
Are you talking to me? I was raised as part of a generation that did not pick over wording in PMs too carefully because it can result in mod-killing. I would guess all the PR PMs say the same about the restriction, town or scum.
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My pm also says the card, but it feels like an effect of English not being Lalight's first language (though he writes it very well in general).
Same.
Same, but now you say it says "a" not "the"?
I don't know that I am allowed to say which of those things it says, because I believe in not breaking the rules!
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If Robz is lying, that means he got really super unlucky with his fake claim.
Maybe LL got devious and put in two jk's as a negative utility for town.
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To avoid flirting with breaking the rules, I'm fine with moving on, but the fact remains that in two different messages you did claim both wordings Robz, regardless of whether or not it is significant.
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I really don't think this looks good for Robz
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To avoid flirting with breaking the rules, I'm fine with moving on, but the fact remains that in two different messages you did claim both wordings Robz, regardless of whether or not it is significant.
Because I don't think the wording there matters, and you are supposed to not quote your PM directly. In earlier games it was common to paraphrase PMs instead of using precise wording.
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Maybe LL got devious and put in two jk's as a negative utility for town.
I doubt it. Though it'd be pretty funny
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3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Quoting of QTs is forbidden as well
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3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Quoting of QTs is forbidden as well
When I read that, I took that as no copy and pasting or quoting whole sentences. The only direct quoting I did was at most 2 words "the card" if I remember correctly, so if that crossed a line, sorry. Also Robz, if I do end up modkilled, you are pretty much guaranteed to be the next lynch. So let's just move on and figure out who your partners are.
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3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Quoting of QTs is forbidden as well
When I read that, I took that as no copy and pasting or quoting whole sentences. The only direct quoting I did was at most 2 words "the card" if I remember correctly, so if that crossed a line, sorry. Also Robz, if I do end up modkilled, you are pretty much guaranteed to be the next lynch. So let's just move on and figure out who your partners are.
I'm not saying you should be modkilled, I'm saying that's why I don't waste time going into detail regarding whether my PM says "a card" "the card" or "cards."
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If EFHW and I are the only 2 treasure cards, it would make sense for the two of us to say the while everyone else's says a.
Sadly this isn't strong evidence, because Lekkit was a treasure card too, according to his flip.
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If EFHW and I are the only 2 treasure cards, it would make sense for the two of us to say the while everyone else's says a.
Sadly this isn't strong evidence, because Lekkit was a treasure card too, according to his flip.
Hey, there's that too!
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If EFHW and I are the only 2 treasure cards, it would make sense for the two of us to say the while everyone else's says a.
Sadly this isn't strong evidence, because Lekkit was a treasure card too, according to his flip.
Fair enough *hears an audible sigh of relief from Robz at his computer*
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If EFHW and I are the only 2 treasure cards, it would make sense for the two of us to say the while everyone else's says a.
Sadly this isn't strong evidence, because Lekkit was a treasure card too, according to his flip.
Fair enough *hears an audible sigh of relief from Robz at his computer*
I am audibly relieved that I'm not going to be mislynched because of your erroneous judgment, yes!
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So should everyone else claim or...?
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So should everyone else claim or...?
I would say yes. It will help us get a better handle of who is telling the truth or not.
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So I'm a VT and a Treasure Card, which might be actually relevant.
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VT. Are we doing card types?
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DON'T CLAIM CARD TYPES.
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I really don't think this looks good for Robz
I think it looks bad for Dylan. Am I right that you think it looks bad for Robz because you don't think Dylan would risk this?
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Dylan seemed very prepared for his argument against Robz. He had the whole case about pps's claim making scum!Robz need to fakeclaim PR.
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Dylan seemed very prepared for his argument against Robz. He had the whole case about pps's claim making scum!Robz need to fakeclaim PR.
I already suspected robz was scum pr and guessed that he would claim a pr. I had no idea he would claim my exact role though.
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Dylan seemed very prepared for his argument against Robz. He had the whole case about pps's claim making scum!Robz need to fakeclaim PR.
I already suspected robz was scum pr and guessed that he would claim a pr. I had no idea he would claim my exact role though.
I'm not sure how pointing out a solid case against someone is bad though...
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I really don't think this looks good for Robz
I think it looks bad for Dylan. Am I right that you think it looks bad for Robz because you don't think Dylan would risk this?
That and just my general feel from Robz. I'll reread it and put together a case but in general it feels like Robz had a bad fakeclaim than Dylan having a good 1v1. Also I've felt Robz has been scum this whole game. What about this looks bad for Dylan?
Also for mass claim to move forward I'm VT
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I am calling a Dylan / Space / gkrieg scum team.
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I am calling a Dylan / Space / gkrieg scum team.
OMGUS much? I mean of course you have to try to convince everyone I am scum in order to save the game for the scum team, no surprise there, but you can't really expect people to believe that if you were telling the truth, the first two people that would doubt you would be the other two scum? That would be absurd and one of the weakest scum plays ever if that were the case.
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Also for mass claim to move forward I'm VT
As am I.
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Catching up! Wowwow. Seems like we have our lynch pool for today.
Ok. Night one I tried to Jailkeep McG, because if he was a scum PR I wanted him blocked, but if he was town I wanted him alive. However, I am a treasure card which is what McG claimed, and so I didn't expect it to succeed but I had no idea what else to do, so I tried anyway. I targeted you last night because with Cop dead, PPS dead, and myself, and possibly a doc, based on PPS I guessed you were a scum PR.
Just checking that I understand what you are saying, you jailed McG hoping he was scum and had lied about his card type, or you weren't aware of the card type restriction?
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I am a Jailkeeper.
I jailed Dylan on Night 1, because he seemed kind of townie and I wanted to protect him, but also he didn't garner much suspicion so it's possible he would be scum doing the night kill, if scum. I am the same card type as McEFHW so trying to protect the claimed doctor was never a possibility.
Last night I didn't really consider jailing PPS because I thought McEFHW would protect him and I also didn't want to block his night action. It didn't seem like there was any particularly good choice, I thought scum would be shooting McEFHW if McEFHW was for real, and there's nothing I could do to stop that except jail the shooter. I picked RR.
As for Robz, both these targets match how I'd use the role, and Robz's reluctance to claim makes sense if he is the jailkeeper. I actually think this is very tough because scum can go for bold moves knowing they only need one mislynch to win, and because both have a believable narrative as far as I can tell.
Generally, I think the better prepared ready to go claim with all the arguments for why it's truthful is usually scummier, because town is concerned with using their powers well, but scum crafting a fakeclaim with making it believable and getting the other guy lynched.
I was feeling scummier on Dylan previously, might cloud judgement, but Robz looks more like I would as a jk and Dylan like I would as a scum.
What had PPS implied about his results? Can we make any use of them figuring this out?
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I'm going to try to look at this with fresh eyes later today.
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It's not clear we should concentrate all our efforts on picking between the two claimants. Assuming no silliness like double town jailkeeper or double scum fakeclaiming, we know there is 1/2 scum in the claimants, and 2/5 in the rest of population. Scum knows who they want to vote for anyway, but for townies (other than Robz/Dylan, whichever is the real JK), it's actually the same odds lynching a claimant or not a claimant (1/2 or 2/4).
Right now I think I'd be more comfortable going off the claimants, especially because the JK (alongside EFHW if she is a real doctor) will be our only hope if we get it wrong today (and if we go for the claimants and pick wrong, we won't have him).
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Other than me, are we waiting on anyone to claim still?
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It's not clear we should concentrate all our efforts on picking between the two claimants. Assuming no silliness like double town jailkeeper or double scum fakeclaiming, we know there is 1/2 scum in the claimants, and 2/5 in the rest of population. Scum knows who they want to vote for anyway, but for townies (other than Robz/Dylan, whichever is the real JK), it's actually the same odds lynching a claimant or not a claimant (1/2 or 2/4).
Right now I think I'd be more comfortable going off the claimants, especially because the JK (alongside EFHW if she is a real doctor) will be our only hope if we get it wrong today (and if we go for the claimants and pick wrong, we won't have him).
While I agree I wanted everyone to take a stand on the two JKs and also to finish the mass claim
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Other than me, are we waiting on anyone to claim still?
I don't think so.
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Other than me, are we waiting on anyone to claim still?
Claim Jailkeeper!
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I think it's just me left, I'm a VT.
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So, setup wise, we have more to information to analyze EFHW's claim with now. I guess the question is, how big of a factor are the targeting restrictions, and which side do they strengthen? We know we were given a cop, a jailkeeper and a tracker, is that combination or them + or also having a doctor more likely to be balanced (in LL's opinion)? We don't have any idea what powers scum might have, except for that if EFHW is the doctor, we know they could kill someone despite the her targeting them.
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So we have
Vanilla Cop
Tracker
JK
Doctor?
5 VT
3 scum probably
But each of the PRs are probably only effective on 2/3 of the population. I feel like with a JK, there is probably not a very high chance of the doctor being real. It just seems so out of place on that list now that we can be reasonably sure that we have a JK.
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Thread locked
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According to Rules
Dylan32, who was Relic, a Jailkeeper and the Treasure Card
And EFHW, who was Treasure Trove, a Doctor and the Treasure Card
Are modkilled for posts #1477 and #1487 respectively.
Mafia team, who was Robz888, Eevee and SpaceAnemone won.
Mod QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/yH4VKqjuJVMtF
Speccy: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/KFKzZfd4ezB
Another Speccy: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/hnb3y9ecGSB8
Scum QT: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/U5Y5qVzF366T
I am sorry it happened that way. My lack of articles knowing and apparently the closeness of normal game were the triggers here. I hope to run another game in some time.
Being a mod is being a mod.
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The thread and the way to my depression are unlocked
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I don't know if i should give the MVP here but if i should, it's clearly GKrieg13. As scum said and as i felt it he "played a scary town game" and solved the whole case by himself.
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Whaaat? Was this really necessary?
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I advised this course of action. Please relay all your frustration to me.
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I knew it! I am just sad that I was persuaded away from the scum team.
From what I saw, (and I'm not sure I remember correctly) Robz should have also been modkilled, for fake-quoting, but it's kind of difficult to say.
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I advised this course of action. Please relay all your frustration to me.
There was my mistake in the fundament.
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No frustration or any ill feelings towards anyone from me, just to me it didn't look like either side gained a decisive advantage and I think we could have played it through, I do understand that from a mod perspective, the game state is a difficult thing to take into account when making a decision like this.
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I knew it! I am just sad that I was persuaded away from the scum team.
From what I saw, (and I'm not sure I remember correctly) Robz should have also been modkilled, for fake-quoting, but it's kind of difficult to say.
Yeah, you really had us down cold. PPS too.
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From what I saw, (and I'm not sure I remember correctly) Robz should have also been modkilled, for fake-quoting, but it's kind of difficult to say.
Possibly. But then it would still have been endgame, so that decision wasn't all that relevant.
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No frustration or any ill feelings towards anyone from me, just to me it didn't look like either side gained a decisive advantage and I think we could have played it through, I do understand that from a mod perspective, the game state is a difficult thing to take into account when making a decision like this.
Agreed. I'm sorry it had to end this way, but I can't fault LaLight (or faust) for the decision.
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As much as it sucks to have ended this way, I'm glad that it did. I have been intentionally trying to make the wording of my QTs consistent, just to avoid this sort of thing, but maybe this game will make it so that people will be better at not trying to exploit the information that the mod gave them. I think trying to gain an advantage from something that you were clearly not supposed to have an advantage with is a very dangerous line to cross.
Also in other news, I liked LaLight's post in the mod QT saying that closed setups are the worst. I totally agree! They are super fun for RMM, where people are expecting things to be a little bit crazy, but I think for standard setups, it is much better for people to know most parts of the setup, and it makes it a million times easier to mod.
That is why I strongly advise any new mod to mod a standard open setup before they get into design, because as you can see, there is a lot of weird things about being a mod, like realizing that the wording of your QT posts need to be consistent, or knowing when to draw the line with scum asking for certain information, that are really hard to determine when the person asking you for the information is more experienced than you are, but you still feel they shouldn't get that information.
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I advised this course of action. Please relay all your frustration to me.
There was my mistake in the fundament.
I don't really think so. Dylan could easily have asked for clarification in the QT instead of jumping to conclusions.
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From what I saw, (and I'm not sure I remember correctly) Robz should have also been modkilled, for fake-quoting, but it's kind of difficult to say.
Possibly. But then it would still have been endgame, so that decision wasn't all that relevant.
That isn't true at all. 2 towns being dead and one scum being dead would've left us at LYLO
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As much as it sucks to have ended this way, I'm glad that it did. I have been intentionally trying to make the wording of my QTs consistent, just to avoid this sort of thing, but maybe this game will make it so that people will be better at not trying to exploit the information that the mod gave them. I think trying to gain an advantage from something that you were clearly not supposed to have an advantage with is a very dangerous line to cross.
Also in other news, I liked LaLight's post in the mod QT saying that closed setups are the worst. I totally agree! They are super fun for RMM, where people are expecting things to be a little bit crazy, but I think for standard setups, it is much better for people to know most parts of the setup, and it makes it a million times easier to mod.
That is why I strongly advise any new mod to mod a standard open setup before they get into design, because as you can see, there is a lot of weird things about being a mod, like realizing that the wording of your QT posts need to be consistent, or knowing when to draw the line with scum asking for certain information, that are really hard to determine when the person asking you for the information is more experienced than you are, but you still feel they shouldn't get that information.
Generally agree. I will add that I wouldn't mind seeing a semi-open version of this setup run some time in the future. It has potential I think.
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I advised this course of action. Please relay all your frustration to me.
There was my mistake in the fundament.
I don't really think so. Dylan could easily have asked for clarification in the QT instead of jumping to conclusions.
Thing is he asked and i gave a clarification..
Also, all the players QTs are in the mod qt. Here are some woth seeing.
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From what I saw, (and I'm not sure I remember correctly) Robz should have also been modkilled, for fake-quoting, but it's kind of difficult to say.
Possibly. But then it would still have been endgame, so that decision wasn't all that relevant.
That isn't true at all. 2 towns being dead and one scum being dead would've left us at LYLO
Wouldn't it be the night then? As is endgame?
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As much as it sucks to have ended this way, I'm glad that it did. I have been intentionally trying to make the wording of my QTs consistent, just to avoid this sort of thing, but maybe this game will make it so that people will be better at not trying to exploit the information that the mod gave them. I think trying to gain an advantage from something that you were clearly not supposed to have an advantage with is a very dangerous line to cross.
Also in other news, I liked LaLight's post in the mod QT saying that closed setups are the worst. I totally agree! They are super fun for RMM, where people are expecting things to be a little bit crazy, but I think for standard setups, it is much better for people to know most parts of the setup, and it makes it a million times easier to mod.
That is why I strongly advise any new mod to mod a standard open setup before they get into design, because as you can see, there is a lot of weird things about being a mod, like realizing that the wording of your QT posts need to be consistent, or knowing when to draw the line with scum asking for certain information, that are really hard to determine when the person asking you for the information is more experienced than you are, but you still feel they shouldn't get that information.
Generally agree. I will add that I wouldn't mind seeing a semi-open version of this setup run some time in the future. It has potential I think.
I'll do it in some time.
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From what I saw, (and I'm not sure I remember correctly) Robz should have also been modkilled, for fake-quoting, but it's kind of difficult to say.
Possibly. But then it would still have been endgame, so that decision wasn't all that relevant.
That isn't true at all. 2 towns being dead and one scum being dead would've left us at LYLO
Wouldn't it be the night then? As is endgame?
Doesn't that make a mod kill always favor scum if it automatically goes to night?
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From what I saw, (and I'm not sure I remember correctly) Robz should have also been modkilled, for fake-quoting, but it's kind of difficult to say.
Possibly. But then it would still have been endgame, so that decision wasn't all that relevant.
That isn't true at all. 2 towns being dead and one scum being dead would've left us at LYLO
Wouldn't it be the night then? As is endgame?
Doesn't that make a mod kill always favor scum if it automatically goes to night?
God true. My mistake.
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From what I saw, (and I'm not sure I remember correctly) Robz should have also been modkilled, for fake-quoting, but it's kind of difficult to say.
Possibly. But then it would still have been endgame, so that decision wasn't all that relevant.
That isn't true at all. 2 towns being dead and one scum being dead would've left us at LYLO
Oh crap... for some reason I thought this was LyLo andnot MyLo...
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From what I saw, (and I'm not sure I remember correctly) Robz should have also been modkilled, for fake-quoting, but it's kind of difficult to say.
Possibly. But then it would still have been endgame, so that decision wasn't all that relevant.
That isn't true at all. 2 towns being dead and one scum being dead would've left us at LYLO
Oh crap... for some reason I thought this was LyLo andnot MyLo...
Does that mean we can call it a tie? :D
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I'm sorry, everyone. I should have realized.
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I'm sorry, everyone. I should have realized.
we forgive you
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Oh and special thanks to SA and Robz, it was a pleasure!
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Oh and special thanks to SA and Robz, it was a pleasure!
We are waiting for you in other games :-)
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I knew you were scum Eevee!!! :)
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As i mentioned in qt, game was more than interesting. Thanks to everybody, really.
Also, scumteam, types were randomized. It was not 4-4-4
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Oh no it's not your mistake. I'm pretty sure that is usually true of mod kills. Like I feel like we should change that as a community.
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Also, scumteam, types were randomized. It was not 4-4-4
It worked as an assumption, and saved us from failing to kill Calamitas N1 :-)
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@PPS What on earth gave me away? You were really scarily good all through that game!
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Oh and special thanks to SA and Robz, it was a pleasure!
I got the message for me in your QT :-) You and Robz were great scum-buddies to learn from!
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The thread and the way to my depression are unlocked
*great big hugs* :-)
It was a fantastic set-up! It was a challenge with it being closed, and I'm sorry for my part in pushing to have people dissect the wording of the novel rules.
Like the Worms game in RMM37, I've really thoroughly enjoyed having a bit of an extra mechanic to puzzle out, and it was really cleverly done to let all the PRs interact with only a subset of the overall player set.
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Okay, I see I missed some stuff! I agree with the decision to call the game, and I don't blame anyone involved. These things can happen. Hope nobody feels too bad, including LaLight and Dyan.
I do think closed setups should be confined to RMM, with rare exception.
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Kudos to gkrieg, who had us dead to rights.
In case it wasn't clear, I was a scum Roleblocker, and the wording in my PM was indeed exactly the same as the wording in other role PMs. That's why I appealed to LL to do something (although I didn't personally recommend mod-killing), I felt like I was losing the argument with Dylan because of an advantage that he both shouldn't have, and also wasn't valid--mine DID say what his said--but I was left with no way to argue it.
I think there was a good chance town was going to correctly lynch me instead of Dylan even before that came up, but then the way he did it with the PM thing was also basically ICing him, which would have meant no one would have seriously considered the possibility of us both being scum, and that woulda been real bad.
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@PPS What on earth gave me away? You were really scarily good all through that game!
I told you, I can sense you ever since I played scum with you in our first game. My big mistake this game was being clearly town. I'm still trying to find the balance. Believe me, when I started it was impossible to read me as town, ever.
I was seriously suspecting Robz but didn't want it to be true. He really played well towards me. I knew at the start of D3 though that he was scum right up until the Dylan claim because Dylan's claim was just bad in terms of what he actually did.
I spelled out my reasoning for my behaviors in the Speccy. In the end they were both bad calls but I did at least consider the correct calls and decide against them.
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Damn, Robz and Eevee both were helping me bus SA at the end of D2, that is where my town read on them both was really coming from. I fell for the oldest trick in the book. I can't believe nobody else wanted to get on SA, WTF.
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Oh no it's not your mistake. I'm pretty sure that is usually true of mod kills. Like I feel like we should change that as a community.
My rule has always been that a modkill should punish the offender's faction. So, a town modkill goes to night; a scum modkill continues the day.
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Damn, Robz and Eevee both were helping me bus SA at the end of D2, that is where my town read on them both was really coming from. I fell for the oldest trick in the book. I can't believe nobody else wanted to get on SA, WTF.
I was pretty worried we were going to end up lynching SA with just three votes. I kept saying, "Surely someone is going to come along and derail this lynch, I'll just stay the course." And then I realized like 10 minutes before deadline that wasn't happening and I had to do it myself.
Plurality lynches are really weird and I'm not a big fan, I must say.
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Kudos to gkrieg, who had us dead to rights.
In case it wasn't clear, I was a scum Roleblocker, and the wording in my PM was indeed exactly the same as the wording in other role PMs. That's why I appealed to LL to do something (although I didn't personally recommend mod-killing), I felt like I was losing the argument with Dylan because of an advantage that he both shouldn't have, and also wasn't valid--mine DID say what his said--but I was left with no way to argue it.
I think there was a good chance town was going to correctly lynch me instead of Dylan even before that came up, but then the way he did it with the PM thing was also basically ICing him, which would have meant no one would have seriously considered the possibility of us both being scum, and that woulda been real bad.
I actually wasn't really taking into consideration the PM thing. Honestly, it seemed like it was making EFHW less trusting of Dylan, and that she was starting to side with you, so I'm not really sure what kind of impact it really had on the game.
I mean, I was going to lynch you regardless of what PMs said :)
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Lekkit is the one I wholly misread. I really thought we'd flip scum D2. That guy is hard to read.
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Oh no it's not your mistake. I'm pretty sure that is usually true of mod kills. Like I feel like we should change that as a community.
My rule has always been that a modkill should punish the offender's faction. So, a town modkill goes to night; a scum modkill continues the day.
I almost feel like it should be the opposite. I mean the modkill is already bad enough. I think it would keep the game more fair because a town modkill is just treated as an extra NK for scum and a scum modkill would just be treated as a correct lynch for town.
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Damn, Robz and Eevee both were helping me bus SA at the end of D2, that is where my town read on them both was really coming from. I fell for the oldest trick in the book. I can't believe nobody else wanted to get on SA, WTF.
That was very, very intense. I felt it was necessary to do something you wouldn't expect, because status quo seemed to be leading to bad places for our team. It working out to you abandoning the wagon for being too scummy was a nice development, to say the least.
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Well crap. I'm really sorry guys.
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Well crap. I'm really sorry guys.
It happens sometimes, everything is ok. Just don't do that the next time :)
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Well crap. I'm really sorry guys.
Don't feel bad. I don't blame you. It's all okay!
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What the heck
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Just for the record, to what extent is paraphrasing okay? (@faust, @ashersky, @othermods)
May one use technical terms to exactly describe the situation without ever using the exact wordings? May one use obvious synonyms, acronyms or anything like that to describe the situation? May one insert spelling mistakes to make it an inaccurate quote? Or is one just advised to totally keep silence about actual information/evidence one has which influence oneselfs reads (and might thereby lead to conflicts since the strength of your expressed read doesn't necessarily match the evidence you (offically) have) ?
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My policy has always been to paraphrase, disclaim that I am paraphrasing and that the paraphrase is to the best of my knowledge, and get mod confirmation on anything further needed. In gneral I avoid these types of situations because they are generally fruitless and engaging them tends to be insulting towards the mods.
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Before you start spouting off about your role PM, you should ask the mod if what you want to say is okay.
In practice, this problem was mostly fixed by transitioning to a model whereby Normal games were basically always running setups where the possibly PMs could be made available.
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I mean, this whole problem would have been avoided if I hadn't misread and misunderstood LaLight's initial clarification. At the time I wasn't thinking about articles and the use of the word "the" in the initial role description, at all, so I thought the clarification must have been referring to the fact I targeted a claimed treasure card instead of wording. Reading it with hindsight it is 1000% clear what was being said, but for whatever reason I just overlooked the use of "any card" in the clarification until after I had already derailed the thread. LaLight handled everything perfectly and even tried to preempt any confusion, but I was apparently a big enough idiot to still mess it up. All that happened before I thought the info would trap Robz, so really it shouldn't have even come up at all...
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I don't think there are an even number of each type of card, so it really isn't 2/3. Also, for full disclosure, my QT doesn't say I can't target "cards" that share a type, it says "the card" that you share a type with. Robz simply said he shared a type with McEFHW without saying specifically what it was, which would be the case if he didn't want to go back and check what it was, so really you didn't even fully claim.
My pm also says the card, but it feels like an effect of English not being Lalight's first language (though he writes it very well in general).
To underline my train of thought here are two alternative posts that cover the same information but stay (at least to my understanding) well withing the rules:
I don't think there are an even number of each type of card, so it really isn't 2/3. Also, for full disclosure I can refer to information I have gathered from an analysis of my qt. The remarkable thing is that LaLight used a definite article to describe the types of cards I cannot target. Robz simply said he shared a type with McEFHW without saying specifically what it was, which would be the case if he didn't want to go back and check what it was, so really you didn't even fully claim.
My pm also uses a definite article in the same regard, but it feels like an effect of English not being Lalight's first language (though he writes it very well in general).
Obviously, this writing style doesn't help the game in any regard. It enables to write about otherwise forbidden things but hurts the flow of the game. Banning those methods would basically muzzle the players in regard to information they "legally" (in contrast to face reads in RL for example) acquired and might lead to the conflicts I outlined before. I don't think such a policy would be in favor of the playing community and the fun of the people involved.
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Calamitas, I don't think those re-writings are okay, because they are still too specific. They still attempt to wring an advantage from knowing that the PM used a definitive article (a false advantage in the case we actually had, becuase all PMs used the same article). This is too close to to a hypothetical problem scenario: imagine we have a claimed Tracker we know is truthful, and two players who have also claimed to be Trackers, one is a liar and the other is not. The confirmed Tracker could say, for instance "how many times does the letter R appear in your role PM?" He wouldn't be quoting anything or asking for quotes, but could use the PM information to confirm town.
The point is that we don't ever want PM wording info to be the basis of deciding whether someone is town or not.
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I mean, this whole problem would have been avoided if I hadn't misread and misunderstood LaLight's initial clarification. At the time I wasn't thinking about articles and the use of the word "the" in the initial role description, at all, so I thought the clarification must have been referring to the fact I targeted a claimed treasure card instead of wording. Reading it with hindsight it is 1000% clear what was being said, but for whatever reason I just overlooked the use of "any card" in the clarification until after I had already derailed the thread. LaLight handled everything perfectly and even tried to preempt any confusion, but I was apparently a big enough idiot to still mess it up. All that happened before I thought the info would trap Robz, so really it shouldn't have even come up at all...
Don't feel bad! It's really okay. It's understandable on your part, and understandable on LL's part. You were playing a really impressive game for a relative newbie and I hope you stick with us.
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Yes, I think the rule just has to be that using your PM for anything should just be against the rules. Anything where you can use the secret information you gain by knowing exactly what your PM looks like is just wrong.
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Also I would like to propose that the game either be called a tie, or that it just be called off. I would argue that Robz should have been modkilled as well, resulting in a pretty easy (from my point of view) LYLO.
I guess it depends on whether we would've gone into night after the modkill or stayed in that day phase too.
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In my official stats I'm counting this as a draw.
I'm not mad at anyone, we made some mistakes and people died. RIP
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Calamitas, I don't think those re-writings are okay, because they are still too specific. They still attempt to wring an advantage from knowing that the PM used a definitive article (a false advantage in the case we actually had, becuase all PMs used the same article). This is too close to to a hypothetical problem scenario: imagine we have a claimed Tracker we know is truthful, and two players who have also claimed to be Trackers, one is a liar and the other is not. The confirmed Tracker could say, for instance "how many times does the letter R appear in your role PM?" He wouldn't be quoting anything or asking for quotes, but could use the PM information to confirm town.
The point is that we don't ever want PM wording info to be the basis of deciding whether someone is town or not.
But it neither quoting nor verbatim and therefore not covered by the rule. It is paraphrasing after all (paraphrasing of words and not meanings but still paraphrasing :D)
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I mean, this whole problem would have been avoided if I hadn't misread and misunderstood LaLight's initial clarification. At the time I wasn't thinking about articles and the use of the word "the" in the initial role description, at all, so I thought the clarification must have been referring to the fact I targeted a claimed treasure card instead of wording. Reading it with hindsight it is 1000% clear what was being said, but for whatever reason I just overlooked the use of "any card" in the clarification until after I had already derailed the thread. LaLight handled everything perfectly and even tried to preempt any confusion, but I was apparently a big enough idiot to still mess it up. All that happened before I thought the info would trap Robz, so really it shouldn't have even come up at all...
Don't feel bad! It's really okay. It's understandable on your part, and understandable on LL's part. You were playing a really impressive game for a relative newbie and I hope you stick with us.
Thanks for that. My initial thought really was, "boy I don't want to show my username in that forum again" but that would be a bit melodramatic, so I think I'll stick around haha. But for learning purposes, other than the obvious "Don't break the rules," how should I have handled the counterclaim since I was the one telling the truth? I obviously had a few typos and shaky posts that I could have prevented had I just reread it before I hit post, but I got in a hurry. Like should I have waited until my turn at the end of the claim, or is immediate actually better?
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Curious about thoughts on my not claiming that I knew Robz had targeted Dylan?
Not knowing if he were town or not I was trying to not out a town PR. He leveraged this expertly, BTW.
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I mean, this whole problem would have been avoided if I hadn't misread and misunderstood LaLight's initial clarification. At the time I wasn't thinking about articles and the use of the word "the" in the initial role description, at all, so I thought the clarification must have been referring to the fact I targeted a claimed treasure card instead of wording. Reading it with hindsight it is 1000% clear what was being said, but for whatever reason I just overlooked the use of "any card" in the clarification until after I had already derailed the thread. LaLight handled everything perfectly and even tried to preempt any confusion, but I was apparently a big enough idiot to still mess it up. All that happened before I thought the info would trap Robz, so really it shouldn't have even come up at all...
Don't feel bad! It's really okay. It's understandable on your part, and understandable on LL's part. You were playing a really impressive game for a relative newbie and I hope you stick with us.
Thanks for that. My initial thought really was, "boy I don't want to show my username in that forum again" but that would be a bit melodramatic, so I think I'll stick around haha. But for learning purposes, other than the obvious "Don't break the rules," how should I have handled the counterclaim since I was the one telling the truth? I obviously had a few typos and shaky posts that I could have prevented had I just reread it before I hit post, but I got in a hurry. Like should I have waited until my turn at the end of the claim, or is immediate actually better?
I think you were handling it pretty impeccably, honestly. You had some natural advantages--the counter-claimant (in this case, you), is virtually always the person telling the truth, that's the big one. After you counter-claimed, I gave myself about a 20% chance of not being lynched. I am pretty good at that, mind you. If there is one thing I am good at when it comes to this game, it is convincing town not to lynch me, "in the face of overwhelming evidence," as joetheonah once put it (he calls this tactic "Robzfuscation").
I don't personally think your breadcrumbing counts for much, but others might disagree.
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Curious about thoughts on my not claiming that I knew Robz had targeted Dylan?
Not knowing if he were town or not I was trying to not out a town PR. He leveraged this expertly, BTW.
It's a tough call. You were reading me as town, in which case, there's definitely a strong case to be made for playing it exactly the way you did.
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Ok wow I can't get a win. I knew robz was scum and I was starting to suspect Eevee but SA always is scum and I can never tell. Also sign up for RMM 38 or M90 because we have like no games open now
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That's an unfortunate ending to a fun game! As far as modkills goes. This is nothing to be upset about. More importantly I really did have a blast. And as it turns out, not voting for IDPTG turned out the way I wanted.
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In regard to the qt thing (I am not a mod so my experience is pretty limited in that regard):
I agree that lynching shouldn't be based on role pms. But I wouldn't put that into the hands of the players who wouldn't be allowed to use info they have. Instead I would allow anyone to request possible role pms for various roles. If the roles don't exist, the mod would just create one following their pattern, if the role exists they would just take the original blueprint. That way universal access to pms would be provided without forcing the mod to reveal sth (closed setups) or to create a massive amount of role pms since it would be handled on a request-to-request basis. Thereby any info circulating within the qts would be absolutely free to share without creating any disadvantages due to incomplete knowledge about role pms.
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In regard to the qt thing (I am not a mod so my experience is pretty limited in that regard):
I agree that lynching shouldn't be based on role pms. But I wouldn't put that into the hands of the players who wouldn't be allowed to use info they have. Instead I would allow anyone to request possible role pms for various roles. If the roles don't exist, the mod would just create one following their pattern, if the role exists they would just take the original blueprint. That way universal access to pms would be provided without forcing the mod to reveal sth (closed setups) or to create a massive amount of role pms since it would be handled on a request-to-request basis. Thereby any info circulating within the qts would be absolutely free to share without creating any disadvantages due to incomplete knowledge about role pms.
You could do that when you mod, but I definitely don't want to have to create role PMs at the whim of players.
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Curious about thoughts on my not claiming that I knew Robz had targeted Dylan?
Not knowing if he were town or not I was trying to not out a town PR. He leveraged this expertly, BTW.
It's a tough call. You were reading me as town, in which case, there's definitely a strong case to be made for playing it exactly the way you did.
Yeah, while selfishly and with hindsight I do wish you had said it, I'd say that was probably the right way to play it. And PPS, you are right about Robz using it perfectly. Honestly, as I read Robz's posts leading up to the claim, I was thinking to myself geez I hope I don't have to be the one to call him out, because if I didn't know better I would probably be reading him as town right now haha, so major props Robz.
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Just for the record, to what extent is paraphrasing okay? (@faust, @ashersky, @othermods)
May one use technical terms to exactly describe the situation without ever using the exact wordings? May one use obvious synonyms, acronyms or anything like that to describe the situation? May one insert spelling mistakes to make it an inaccurate quote? Or is one just advised to totally keep silence about actual information/evidence one has which influence oneselfs reads (and might thereby lead to conflicts since the strength of your expressed read doesn't necessarily match the evidence you (offically) have) ?
When in doubt, submit the post you intend to make in your QT first for mod approval.
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Also I would like to propose that the game either be called a tie, or that it just be called off. I would argue that Robz should have been modkilled as well, resulting in a pretty easy (from my point of view) LYLO.
I guess it depends on whether we would've gone into night after the modkill or stayed in that day phase too.
I don't necessarily agree, because Robz made his post last, so by that time Dylan and EFHW could have already been modkilled (and the game ended) had the mod been there in time.
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That EFHW modkill was literally ill-advised. Sorry.
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I mean, this whole problem would have been avoided if I hadn't misread and misunderstood LaLight's initial clarification. At the time I wasn't thinking about articles and the use of the word "the" in the initial role description, at all, so I thought the clarification must have been referring to the fact I targeted a claimed treasure card instead of wording. Reading it with hindsight it is 1000% clear what was being said, but for whatever reason I just overlooked the use of "any card" in the clarification until after I had already derailed the thread. LaLight handled everything perfectly and even tried to preempt any confusion, but I was apparently a big enough idiot to still mess it up. All that happened before I thought the info would trap Robz, so really it shouldn't have even come up at all...
Don't feel bad! It's really okay. It's understandable on your part, and understandable on LL's part. You were playing a really impressive game for a relative newbie and I hope you stick with us.
Thanks for that. My initial thought really was, "boy I don't want to show my username in that forum again" but that would be a bit melodramatic, so I think I'll stick around haha. But for learning purposes, other than the obvious "Don't break the rules," how should I have handled the counterclaim since I was the one telling the truth? I obviously had a few typos and shaky posts that I could have prevented had I just reread it before I hit post, but I got in a hurry. Like should I have waited until my turn at the end of the claim, or is immediate actually better?
Your initial presentation of the counterclaim threw me off, for sure. You seemed like you were waiting for the chance to pounce, and since the mass claim had been your idea and Robz was the first PR to claim and the chances of him picking jk seemed small and then you made that error. I had a lot of doubt. Then gkrieg's and Eevee's posts made me think twice (because I read gkrieg as town, and he was supporting you, and I read Eevee as scum and he was supporting Robz). I was planning to completely re-evaluate things when I suddenly died!
I suppose in a way I did take Dylan's survival as a tacit permission to discuss the "the" vs. "a" question. But I wish I had thought better of it and I'm sorry for my part in ending the game.
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Robz did you already know Dylan was jailkeeper? You mentioned in your fakeclaim that scum could have a rolecop. Did you? I couldn't decide whether your mentioning the possibility made it more or less likely!
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Robz did you already know Dylan was jailkeeper? You mentioned in your fakeclaim that scum could have a rolecop. Did you? I couldn't decide whether your mentioning the possibility made it more or less likely!
I did NOT know he was the Jailkeeper, no. I had been planning the claim for a while, though.