Dominion Strategy Forum
Miscellaneous => Forum Games => Mafia Game Threads => Topic started by: faust on September 09, 2015, 02:21:43 pm
-
Welcome to M69: GOP Mafia!
Mod: faust comod: ashersky
Yes, I resisted the urge to make this number a NSFW theme. But if somebody else wants it, I will gladly change this to M70.
Anyway... This is an open game for 13 players. I will however not release the whole setup during signup phase in order to push all theory discussion to the actual game. Some information is already contained in the second post though.
Players:
1. gkrieg
2. Witherweaver
3. ashersky
4. chairs
5. UmbrageOfSnow yuma
6. Hydrad
7. EgorK
8. XerxesPraelor
9. Joseph2302
10. silverspawn
11. Edmund
12. Teproc
13. Twistedarcher
Spectators tagged: scott_pilgrim, yuma, Archetype, skip wooznum
Day starts/ends:
General rules
Changes to the usual rule sets are marked in olive.
The Golden Rule:
Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game. Please read The Civility Pledge (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0) before signing up for any mafia game on this site. If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play. Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.
1. General Gameplay and Etiquette:
1. You may not quote information (either real or fabricated) from any source other than the thread you are posting in. This means no quotes from PMs and no quotes from QTs in the main thread or in another QT. Paraphrasing is acceptable, as is self-quoting. If you are unsure whether a post is legal, please ask the moderator before posting.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings and the QTs specifically designed for this purpose.
3. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.
2. Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:
1. Day phases will last 7 days, Night lasts 48 hours. As an exception, Day 1 will last 10 days, and is followed by a special power distribution phase that will last 24 hours. Night actions are due one hour before the deadline.
2. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
3. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
4. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until the mod locks the thread; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, there will be no lynch.
6. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName. Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax! Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
7. Please submit vote revocations Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
8. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
9. Not lynching on two consecutive Days is only allowed if there has been a kill the Night between. Otherwise, instead of no lynch, a random town player will be lynched. Similarly, the mafia may only forfeit their night kill two Nights in a row if there has been a lynch in between.
10. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
11. If the thread is locked, you may not post. Threads can be locked for various reasons, but no matter what the reason, you may not post. The mod may forget to lock the thread, but if they say it is locked, it is still locked.
3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:
1. Bold, olive text is reserved for the mod. No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please discuss this in your role QT. Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued upon request after 24 hours of no activity. A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement. A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement under rule 3.9 without further notice.
6. Please do not discuss ongoing games, it can unintentionally affect the other game. Do not discuss this game in any thread that is not directly related to it.
7. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, which may include modkill(s) if needed.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging. Players who fail to post for 48 hours without an announcement multiple times risk being subject to replacement and/or being modkilled without further notice.
9. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread. A request to /out must only be done via a post in the role QT. Please do not use this as a manipulation technique. (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed. Whether your request to /out will lead to replacement or a modkill is up to the mod's discretion.
-
Setup:
3 Mafia Goons
10 Townies
The Mafia has a factional Neapolitan (investigates Vanilla Townie/non-Vanilla Townie) and a factional 1-shot Ninja.
Mechanics:
At the end of D1, after the lynch, there will be a special power distribution phase lasting 24 hours. The thread will be locked during this phase. Each town player must vote for one other player, and each town player may send in the name of a PR of the list below. If exactly one eligible player picked a PR, their role will change to this PR, and the PR can be used starting that night phase. If two or more eligible players picked he same PR, nobody will get it.
Whether or not players are eligible to pick a PR depends on the number of votes they received. The possible PRs are distributed across 3 tiers, the 0-tier, the 1-tier and the 2-tier. The number of each tier is the maximum number of votes a player may have received to be eligible to pick this PR. If any player picks a PR, but has more votes than the number of the tier, it will be counted as though they had not picked any PR.
0-tier: Jailkeeper
1-tier: Babysitter, Hidden Odd-Night Bomb
2-tier: Voyeur, Neighbor, Neighbor
Clarifications on town PRs:
- If a player gets the Hidden Odd-Night Bomb, they will not be informed that this happened.
- There are two Neighbors. Thus, the role will be distributed if there are 1 or 2 eligible players that have picked it.
- Neighbors can talk at all times, starting Night 1.
- Voyeur returns the exact roles that have targetted the player in question. If that player has been targetted by the factional kill, it will return "factional kill".
The mafia does not take part in the power distribution phase. However, they may choose to pick a special power to affect this game phase. They may choose 1 of the following powers (or 2 if the Day 1 lynch was mafia) during the power distribution phase:
BLOCK: The mafia chooses a player. That player is not eligible to receive a PR.
BLEND IN: One mafia player may participate in the power distribution phase as though they were a normal Townie. That player is eligible to receive a PR.
KNOWLEDGE: At the end of the power distribution phase, the mafia is informed about all PRs in the game.
DOUBLE REDIRECT: The mafia picks any player. All votes that were cast on that player during the power distibution phase are instead reflected back to the players that cast them, and count double.
Clarifications on the mafia factional abilities:
- the Neapolitan is able to detect all town PRs including the Hidden Odd-Night Bomb.
- the 1-shot Ninja circumvents all powers that trigger upon being targetted: If the Babysitter is Ninja-killed, their target will not die. If the Bomb is Ninja-killed, it will not trigger. If the Voyeur watches the target of the Ninja-kill, they will see nothing.
-
sounds fun. I hope I'm Trump
/in
-
/in
-
/in for Faust games.
-
Ooo, modified Charge Me Up maybe.
/in
-
/tag
-
/in and /in hard.
Why do I feel like that comment about theory discussion is aimed at me?
And let's be honest, we all want to be Trump.
-
/in and /in hard.
Why do I feel like that comment about theory discussion is aimed at me?
And let's be honest, we all want to be Trump.
Oh don't worry, it's not. The previous time I ran a setup like that, someone proposed a strategy for everyone to follow pregame. It's less of an issue here, since there's supposed to be talk before roles get selected, but I think it's more exciting this way.
-
/in
-
Crossing my fingers that GOP mafia means "republican presidential candidates" mafia.
-
/tag
If it ends up being anything like this I could be a sub as long as I am dead in the other game I am in.
https://youtu.be/FtJ6yyG_Fps
-
With LotR not happening in near future - /in
-
/in
-
/in
-
I'm wander/ing
-
/tag
-
Note that I added a paragraph to the rules htat will be in effect this game.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging. Players who fail to post for 48 hours without an announcement multiple times risk being subject to replacement and/or being modkilled without further notice.
-
Note that I added a paragraph to the rules htat will be in effect this game.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging. Players who fail to post for 48 hours without an announcement multiple times risk being subject to replacement and/or being modkilled without further notice.
Hm, I just realised I'm going to be LA from 28/9-2/10, does this mean I should out?
-
Note that I added a paragraph to the rules htat will be in effect this game.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging. Players who fail to post for 48 hours without an announcement multiple times risk being subject to replacement and/or being modkilled without further notice.
Hm, I just realised I'm going to be LA from 28/9-2/10, does this mean I should out?
Announced LAs are fine. It's unannounced leaves I want to punish.
-
/in if im eligible to
-
/in if im eligible to
You are eligible as soon as you read the Civility Plegde (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=7695.0) and have pledged there.
Welcome to the forums! We're always happy to welcome new mafia players.
-
In order to get more people to sign up, additional setup information has been released. See second post for details.
-
Having spent way too much time thinking about setups like this, I want to say that I really like this. It solves a lot of things I was worried about!
Maybe that endorsement will draw in 2 more players?
-
So you vote against people you don't want to get a PR, right?
-
Note that I added a paragraph to the rules htat will be in effect this game.
8. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment. Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging. Players who fail to post for 48 hours without an announcement multiple times risk being subject to replacement and/or being modkilled without further notice.
Hm, I just realised I'm going to be LA from 28/9-2/10, does this mean I should out?
Announced LAs are fine. It's unannounced leaves I want to punish.
No longer LA in this period.Thought I had no internet for a week, but I now do.
-
So you vote against people you don't want to get a PR, right?
Yes. I figured this would be the easier way to handle things.
-
Hey guys. We only need two more! This is going to be much more interesting than boring old Switch Mafia. Go sign up!
-
Settled in now (living in Lyon now, pretty cool city), so I have time again. faust-moderated, Pick Your Power style ? I'm /in
-
gogogogo hammmmmah
-
Settled in now (living in Lyon now, pretty cool city), so I have time again. faust-moderated, Pick Your Power style ? I'm /in
I've been in Lyon once. I remember lots of one-way roads.
-
Settled in now (living in Lyon now, pretty cool city), so I have time again. faust-moderated, Pick Your Power style ? I'm /in
I've been in Lyon once. I remember lots of one-way roads.
Well, that's true of most old French cities... so basically every French city except Paris (which is old but was massively renovated in the 1860's).
I'm pretty sure I should automatically be scum in this game now that I think about it. Didn't the GOP attack Kerry for speaking French ? That's basically one step before communist.
I can see how this theme might bring some problems w/ regards to RSP/not RSP. But I guess flavor isn't discussed that much in games usually so it should be fine.
-
/tag
-
Hammer please
-
Hammer please
I really would like to, but I'm la starting next Monday and continuing indefinitely.
-
/in
-
hurrah
-
Igor could not keep his hand from shaking when he opened the large, massively decorated doors that led to the inner sanctum. He came here regularly, and yet there was no getting used to dealing with him.
Across the room, behind a massive desk, sat the bald figure, a cruel look on his face. Behind him on the wall: A large picture showing that same man, topless, riding through the Russian woods. Vladimir Putin.
Putin's right hand held a strangely colored cup. It seemed to be an ordinary grey, and yet every time Igor saw the cup, a shiver ran down his spine.
"Igor", said Putin in a seemingly friendly tone. "How good of you to come see me. Do you have any news on our little project?"
"I-Indeed", Igor stammered. "Everything is in motion as planned. I believe we can be sure..."
At this point, Putin interrupted him. "Igor", he said, "you disappoint me. Was this Scott Walker not meant to take the American presidency? Did you not assure me that it was him that had the best chances?"
"I-I know. This did not turn out the way we thought. But you know, we still have three agents in the race who look very promising."
Putin's gaze seemed to go right through Igor's flesh, cutting through his bones and piercing his heart. "Have I ever told you how this cup was manufactured?"
Igor was stunned. What was this about? "I don't think so, sir."
"I treasure it much, you know. It has... a very good feel. It was crafted from a very rare material." Putin paused before continuing. "A human skull."
There was a long, threatening silence before Putin raised his voice again. "I always thought it was a pity that I only possess one of them. This cup... was crafted from the remains of your predecessor in the intelligence service, you see?"
Igor gasped. "Sir, I swear..."
Putin's voice was calm, yet full of anger. "We spent years infiltrating the American politcal system. It took us a long time to get our agents to positions important enough that they would be considered potential candidates for the presidency. We have thwarted the Democrat party towards a socialist agenda. Taking control of the Republican party as well was not that easy. Yet you assured me you were ready. You told me that next year, we could finally bring our own president into office - the one that will help Russia rise to power while America staggers and falls into ruin.
"This is what you promised. I expect no less. Now go. Do your job."
"Y-Yes, Mister President."
Igor gave a sigh of relief when the heavy doors closed behind him. It was not over yet.
Night 0 begins now and ends on October 7, 6 am forum time. Everyone should confirm their PMs until then.
THREAD LOCKED!
-
The setup post has been updated.
-
Not all players have confirmed. You know who you are. Please confirm within 24 hours, or else you will be subject to replacement.
I have modified the Setup post slightly to make mafia special abilities a bit clearer.
-
Sorry about the delay. I had less time than I thought today.
yuma replaces UmbrageOfSnow!
Vote Count 1.0
Not Voting (13): gkrieg, Witherweaver, ashersky, chairs, yuma, Hydrad, EgorK, XerxesPraelor, Joseph2302, silverspawn, Edmund, Teproc, Twistedarcher
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 starts now and ends October 19 at 6 pm forum time.
-
Woo!
-
vote: Edmund for being new.
-
Also, flavor claim?
Setup plans?
-
Screw it, let's full mass claim.
-
so I am breaking my "one-game" at a time rule to sub into this, so expect vastly lower post count/quality from me for a little while. Priority is other game (and when TA's game priority will still be there), faust knew this when he agreed to sub me in, so I don't even feel bad
-
hi everybody!
-
vote: WW
-
vote: putin on the ritz
(http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Putin_1dde65_526579.jpg)
-
I'm vanilla town. There, I did it.
-
I'm the 2016 President of the United States of America.
-
Since flavor isn't relevant here, just going to say that I'm Marco Rubio, and I hate Cubans.
-
Welcome. I am here!
Vote: chairs
-
I am WW
-
I am WW
I don't believe you.
-
How many votes does it take to win the election?
-
I'm vanilla town. There, I did it.
vote: ta
That's my (german) stick.
-
How many votes does it take to win the election?
270, I think. (or 5 supreme justices)
-
Town
Town again
I like to be town
when I can
-
that said hi everyone and vote: Hydrad
-
that said hi everyone and vote: Hydrad
Why would you do this to me!
-
that said hi everyone and vote: Hydrad
Why would you do this to me!
You stole too much money from me in poker!
-
that said hi everyone and vote: Hydrad
Why would you do this to me!
You stole too much money from me in poker!
Ah that does sound like a scummy thing to do. ok fair enough your vote is valid.
-
vote: Edmund for being new.
I agree - Vote:Edmond .
Also, I'm town
-
How many votes does it take to win the election?
270, I think. (or 5 supreme justices)
Electoral Vote: Xerxea Praelor
-
Hey everyone. I'll be busy this week-end, if you guys could get the theory talk done by Monday that'd be great.
-
Hey everyone. I'll be busy this week-end, if you guys could get the theory talk done by Monday that'd be great.
No problem.
Vote: Teproc
-
Hey everyone. I'll be busy this week-end, if you guys could get the theory talk done by Monday that'd be great.
No problem.
Vote: Teproc
That works too I guess.
-
Hey everyone. I'll be busy this week-end, if you guys could get the theory talk done by Monday that'd be great.
No problem.
Vote: Teproc
That works too I guess.
Now we're out of theory/RVS. What are your reads?!
-
Silverspawn is town. I'm still chronically unable to read you, though I will probably try later in the game. Those are my reads.
-
Scum team is ash Joseph Edmund
-
Scum team is ash Joseph Edmund
Didn't you hear we're out of RVS ?
-
Exactly. 😎
-
vote: gkrieg
-
Didn't you hear we're out of RVS ?
-
I don't do RVS.
-
Didn't you hear we're out of RVS ?
Clearly you're scum; don't doubt Teproc.
Vote: Gkrieg
-
Vote Count 1.1
Edmund (2): ashersky, Joseph2302
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg
chairs (1): Hydrad
Hydrad (1): silverspawn
gkrieg (2): Teproc, Witherweaver
Not Voting (6): chairs, yuma, EgorK, XerxesPraelor, Edmund, Twistedarcher
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 starts ends October 19 at 6 pm forum time.
-
speaking of theory even reading it i don't fully understand how it works...
I think there is 2 stages to the voting?
stage one is people all vote for people. (I don't think we see who votes for who).
then you are allowed to say if you want a PR or not.
so to be able to pick jailkeeper i need to have no one voting for me at all.
but if someone else with no votes on themselves picks jailkeeper we both don't get it?
That kinda thing?
-
speaking of theory even reading it i don't fully understand how it works...
I think there is 2 stages to the voting?
stage one is people all vote for people. (I don't think we see who votes for who).
then you are allowed to say if you want a PR or not.
so to be able to pick jailkeeper i need to have no one voting for me at all.
but if someone else with no votes on themselves picks jailkeeper we both don't get it?
That kinda thing?
We're already done with theory talk; keep up!
-
speaking of theory even reading it i don't fully understand how it works...
I think there is 2 stages to the voting?
stage one is people all vote for people. (I don't think we see who votes for who).
then you are allowed to say if you want a PR or not.
so to be able to pick jailkeeper i need to have no one voting for me at all.
but if someone else with no votes on themselves picks jailkeeper we both don't get it?
That kinda thing?
We're already done with theory talk; keep up!
ah apologies unfortunately I'm not good enough to keep up with your high level discussions.
-
so this game.
i have no desire to post after posting 443 times only to lose to fake claiming masons and the guy I had a scum read all game long.
is awaclus in this game?
vote: awaclus even if he isn't
So i'll be back after the weekend. I need a mafia break. I am sure you guys can survive without me for that long.
-
vote: gkrieg for now
In the meantime theory discussion seems to be mandatory this game for part of D1
-
Oh, and I'll be out all day Saturday, would have some time on Sunday, but then will be VLA again until Monday evening
-
speaking of theory even reading it i don't fully understand how it works...
I think there is 2 stages to the voting?
stage one is people all vote for people. (I don't think we see who votes for who).
then you are allowed to say if you want a PR or not.
so to be able to pick jailkeeper i need to have no one voting for me at all.
but if someone else with no votes on themselves picks jailkeeper we both don't get it?
That kinda thing?
right - we should discuss theory. Firstly, we should discuss how much we want to discuss. I'll post my thoughts sometime later when I have them and if no-one does it first.
-
vote: ashersky.
He's always scum.
-
Scum team is ash Joseph Edmund
Didn't you hear we're out of RVS ?
I even told you I was town. Vote: gkrieg13
-
speaking of theory even reading it i don't fully understand how it works...
I think there is 2 stages to the voting?
stage one is people all vote for people. (I don't think we see who votes for who).
then you are allowed to say if you want a PR or not.
so to be able to pick jailkeeper i need to have no one voting for me at all.
but if someone else with no votes on themselves picks jailkeeper we both don't get it?
That kinda thing?
right - we should discuss theory. Firstly, we should discuss how much we want to discuss. I'll post my thoughts sometime later when I have them and if no-one does it first.
A thought: What about a no-lynch D1? It would weaken the scum power (they definitely get 1 PR. instead of possibly getting 2). OTOH, a D1 lynch is usually helpful. Thoughts?
-
I don't like setup/theory talk; I'll go with anything unless it's obviously stupid.
-
speaking of theory even reading it i don't fully understand how it works...
I think there is 2 stages to the voting?
stage one is people all vote for people. (I don't think we see who votes for who).
then you are allowed to say if you want a PR or not.
so to be able to pick jailkeeper i need to have no one voting for me at all.
but if someone else with no votes on themselves picks jailkeeper we both don't get it?
That kinda thing?
right - we should discuss theory. Firstly, we should discuss how much we want to discuss. I'll post my thoughts sometime later when I have them and if no-one does it first.
A thought: What about a no-lynch D1? It would weaken the scum power (they definitely get 1 PR. instead of possibly getting 2). OTOH, a D1 lynch is usually helpful. Thoughts?
Look, if we managed to lynch scum D1 and give them a second power, WE STILL LYNCHED SCUM D1.
vote: Joseph2302
-
FINE I'LL READ THE SETUP.
jeeze
-
Okay, what Joseph said was obviously silly, but I don't think scummy.
-
speaking of theory even reading it i don't fully understand how it works...
I think there is 2 stages to the voting?
stage one is people all vote for people. (I don't think we see who votes for who).
then you are allowed to say if you want a PR or not.
so to be able to pick jailkeeper i need to have no one voting for me at all.
but if someone else with no votes on themselves picks jailkeeper we both don't get it?
That kinda thing?
right - we should discuss theory. Firstly, we should discuss how much we want to discuss. I'll post my thoughts sometime later when I have them and if no-one does it first.
A thought: What about a no-lynch D1? It would weaken the scum power (they definitely get 1 PR. instead of possibly getting 2). OTOH, a D1 lynch is usually helpful. Thoughts?
Look, if we managed to lynch scum D1 and give them a second power, WE STILL LYNCHED SCUM D1.
vote: Joseph2302
On second thoughts, if we lynch D1, at worse we hit VT, which isn't so bad, and is better than a normal game where you can hit PR. Yh, my idea sucked.
-
I am a mason, yo.
-
I am a mason, yo.
I doubt it, Vote: ash
-
I am a mason, yo.
vote: ash
Yeah, no fake claiming, please.
-
I am a mason, yo.
Trying real hard not to ragevote you.
-
I am a mason, yo.
Vote: Ashersky
-
I demand ash's partner claim. :P
-
So here is how I 'interpret' the setup
- Players will request powers.
- Greediness is punished. If two or more players request the same power, no-one gets it.
- Votes are negative
- Voting for someone means 'I don't want you to get a power.'
- Depending on the tier of a power, you can't get it anymore if either 0, 1, or 2 people said so.
-
Planing
Why we might want to coordinate:
If too many (> 1) or too few (< 1) players request the same power, no-one will get it, and we want to maximize the amount of powers we will get
We we might not want to coordinate
Scum gains knowledge about the powers picked, and can NK them.
I think the upside outweighs the downside here, so I would try to coordinate it.
To do this, one plan immediately comes to mind. This reminds me of Yoshi's Island mafia, where there was the Color plan which was the most intuitive solution, but not the best (based purely on a design perspective, I suspect something similar here). I think this one might be talked about more, so I'll just name it the blue plan.
-
How I interpret the setup: lynch scum.
-
Blue plan
Pick a set of the 6 towniest players. Distribute the 6 powers to the members of this set, and have each of them request the power they get assigned. Have all players vote outside of the set. Have no-one else request any power.
-
Vote Count 1.2
Edmund (1): ashersky
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg
chairs (1): Hydrad
Hydrad (1): silverspawn
gkrieg (3): Teproc, Witherweaver, EgorK
Joseph2302 (1): chairs
ashersky (3): Joseph2302, XerxesPraelor, Twistedarcher
Not Voting (2): yuma, Edmund
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 starts ends October 19 at 6 pm forum time.
-
How I interpret the setup: lynch scum.
shush
Here is what happens if we do the blue plan:
Scum will choose this:
BLEND IN: One mafia player may participate in the power distribution phase as though they were a normal Townie. That player is eligible to receive a PR.
That mafia player votes for the player who gets assigned Jailkeeper (unless that player is scum) (because JK is tier 0), and requests the second most powerful power that has been assigned to town.
With that, the player who requests JK won't get it, and the player who requests {power that the mafia guy chose} also won't get it.
That means, town will get 6 - 2 - {number of scum in the set of 6} ≈ 3 powers on average.
Also, that is 3 powers out of the bottom 4 and scum will get perfect information.
With this as the 'default' plan, I think our goal has to be to find variations that are better. Which most likely do exist. I'm not even sure if the blue plan is better than full random.
-
Oh and something else to what happens if we choose the blue plan:
The above happens if mafia chooses a player to participate who is outside the set of 6 (and in that case scum also gets 0 powers for themselves). If scum chooses a player inside the set (if there is one, I think we can assume there is exactly one as an abbreviation), then that player can still vote for the JK guy but, instead of requesting the second best power to block it, he can request the power he was assigned. So that means town will get
6 - 1 - {number of scum in the set} ≈ 4 powers, but scum also gets 1. That is now 4 powers out of the bottom 5.
I think this is similarly good/bad. In conclusion, scum just has what I said above plus a bit of option value. If the one scum in the set of 6 happens to have a strong power assigned, they can get that power instead of sabotaging another one.
-
( if there is some fundamental flaw to anything I've said so far tell me. I double checked it and I think it's all accurate )
-
So, I wrote a simulator. With random picks + votes + 100k simulations...
Powers received:
Tier 0: 0.06635 (6635 abs)
Tier 1: 0.27407 (27407 abs)
Tier 2: 0.52231 (52231 abs)
Total: 0.86273 (86273 abs)
this can probably be improved by not everyone submitting a power, but it's still pretty bad. significantly worse than the blue plan.
-
It can be improved significantly!
The strikes are bad (duh -.-), it is best to remove them entirely. It peaks at using 6 or 7 player and an 80% or 90% chance for submitting anything, respectively.
With no strikes, 7 players, a 90% chance for submission, and 1kk simulations, I get
Tier 0: 0.76778 (767780 abs)
Tier 1: 0.792792 (792792 abs)
Tier 2: 1.188219 (1188219 abs)
Total: 2.748791 (2748791 abs)
-
strikes as in votes.
-
Silver probably town
-
Silver probably town
Mathsilver is null.
-
Also, just vote the scummy people, ask for PRs, sort it out tomorrow.
-
Hi
Why do we even need a plan? Vote your townreads, vote off the scummy people. It should be simple.
Also doing that kind of plan is basically giving mafia free knowledge.
-
Interesting approach. Bad, but interesting
Not planing anything is not good. It's similar to the random approach, which isn't good at all, but worse.
-
Interesting approach. Bad, but interesting
Not planing anything is not good. It's similar to the random approach, which isn't good at all, but worse.
I agree, we need a plan (see the maths above) to optimise this game for town.
-
silver, you underestimate the considerable difference between random and people having reads and making decisions.
Not convinced by any plan so far.
-
Blue plan
Pick a set of the 6 towniest players. Distribute the 6 powers to the members of this set, and have each of them request the power they get assigned. Have all players vote outside of the set. Have no-one else request any power.
[/quote]
Why should the players inside the set vote for people outside the set? They can pretty well vote for members in the set they see as pro town to help them get the power. After all, they arent the only ones that are town.
So, I wrote a simulator. With random picks + votes + 100k simulations...
Powers received:
Tier 0: 0.06635 (6635 abs)
Tier 1: 0.27407 (27407 abs)
Tier 2: 0.52231 (52231 abs)
Total: 0.86273 (86273 abs)
this can probably be improved by not everyone submitting a power, but it's still pretty bad. significantly worse than the blue plan.
Can you explain what you meant there? I dont really get the logic behind this. I've never saw something like this in mafia.
-
Why should the players inside the set vote for people outside the set? They can pretty well vote for members in the set they see as pro town to help them get the power.
voting is negative. voting doesn't help people to get powers, voting makes people not get powers.
-
silver, you underestimate the considerable difference between random and people having reads and making decisions.
not sure what this is referring to.
Not convinced by any plan so far.
yeah, plans so far are bad.
-
Can you explain what you meant there? I dont really get the logic behind this. I've never saw something like this in mafia.
I just simulated how many powers town gets if they submit random choices.
-
although just number of PR's isn't actually a good metric, because Neighbor has almost zero utility and JK has pretty high utility. That's the problem with the blue plan, it has more avg PR's, but it won't give us JK.
-
silver, you underestimate the considerable difference between random and people having reads and making decisions.
Not convinced by any plan so far.
This.
-
Plans fail if people refuse to follow them. Then it doesn't matter if it is great or terrible.
I pledge to not follow any plans.
There. Let's move on to scum hunting. I need another mvp for my showcase.
-
Plans fail if people refuse to follow them. Then it doesn't matter if it is great or terrible.
I pledge to not follow any plans.
There. Let's move on to scum hunting. I need another mvp for my showcase.
vote: asherksy
-
I found scum. Let us go back to setup analysis.
-
silver, you underestimate the considerable difference between random and people having reads and making decisions.
not sure what this is referring to.
Not convinced by any plan so far.
yeah, plans so far are bad.
If you believe that all the plans you have made are bad, why even suggest it? Why even consider those as possible solutions?
Are you just posting those said plans to gain some town credibility by seeming to help town?
-
Sorry about the delay. I had less time than I thought today.
yuma replaces UmbrageOfSnow!
Vote Count 1.0
Not Voting (13): gkrieg, Witherweaver, ashersky, chairs, yuma, Hydrad, EgorK, XerxesPraelor, Joseph2302, silverspawn, Edmund, Teproc, Twistedarcher
Day 1 starts now and ends October 19 at 6 pm forum time.
How many required to lynch? Standard 7?
-
Sorry about the delay. I had less time than I thought today.
yuma replaces UmbrageOfSnow!
Vote Count 1.0
Not Voting (13): gkrieg, Witherweaver, ashersky, chairs, yuma, Hydrad, EgorK, XerxesPraelor, Joseph2302, silverspawn, Edmund, Teproc, Twistedarcher
Day 1 starts now and ends October 19 at 6 pm forum time.
How many required to lynch? Standard 7?
Yes, I forgot. It will be added.
-
Plans fail if people refuse to follow them. Then it doesn't matter if it is great or terrible.
I pledge to not follow any plans.
There. Let's move on to scum hunting. I need another mvp for my showcase.
Ok, I was wrong. I will follow MY plans, regardless of how others feel about them, because they lead to sins, which is the only thing that matters to me.
-
If you believe that all the plans you have made are bad, why even suggest it? Why even consider those as possible solutions?
Are you just posting those said plans to gain some town credibility by seeming to help town?
err
To do this, one plan immediately comes to mind. This reminds me of Yoshi's Island mafia, where there was the Color plan which was the most intuitive solution, but not the best (based purely on a design perspective, I suspect something similar here). I think this one might be talked about more, so I'll just name it the blue plan.
I honestly considered ash (and maybe others too) to suggest and/or advocate this plan, so I did it first
aside from that, it is a strange question. the potential plans aren't independent. it's all the same idea. you reach a good plan by improving existing plans, not by coming up with something unrelated.
-
Sorry about the delay. I had less time than I thought today.
yuma replaces UmbrageOfSnow!
Vote Count 1.0
Not Voting (13): gkrieg, Witherweaver, ashersky, chairs, yuma, Hydrad, EgorK, XerxesPraelor, Joseph2302, silverspawn, Edmund, Teproc, Twistedarcher
Day 1 starts now and ends October 19 at 6 pm forum time.
How many required to lynch? Standard 7?
Yes, I forgot. It will be added.
You also missed XP's vote on me in the last count. He didn't capitalize the v in vote, but otherwise looked fine. Did it not count?
-
Who argued against no lynch and voted? Vote that person.
-
*expected
-
You also missed XP's vote on me in the last count. He didn't capitalize the v in vote, but otherwise looked fine. Did it not count?
Fixed.
-
Plan:
Everyone votes the next person down on the player list. That guarantees everyone has 1 vote. Everyone picks JK. The players right after scum have zero votes. If scum use block, they can only stop one. If scum use blend in, the also get a JK. Double direct just moves the zero to a different player.
Asking as we DO NOT lynch mafia today, they can only do one. Unless rng lined up scum in the player list, we should get 2 JKs and nothing else, with scum probably opting to blend in and get one, too.
Then we know the setup and play a regular game.
-
*as long
-
Plan:
Everyone votes the next person down on the player list. That guarantees everyone has 1 vote. Everyone picks JK. The players right after scum have zero votes. If scum use block, they can only stop one. If scum use blend in, the also get a JK. Double direct just moves the zero to a different player.
Asking as we DO NOT lynch mafia today, they can only do one. Unless rng lined up scum in the player list, we should get 2 JKs and nothing else, with scum probably opting to blend in and get one, too.
Then we know the setup and play a regular game.
mafia does nothing and town gets nothing because several players picked JK.
If two or more eligible players picked he same PR, nobody will get it.
-
And we play a vanilla game. Sounds good.
-
vote: edmund until he changes his avatar. I feel like I am going to have a seizure every time I look at it.
-
I have no problem with a plan. in fact plans are fun! even when they don't fully work out they are more fun.
But I am not interested in 1. doing the math, 2. reading the math and won't analyze it that way because that isn't the way I approach mafia. it might not be optimal but it is the way it is. If I feel it will work I will do it. If I feel it won't work, I won't.
The best plan is going to be one that allows for not everyone participating and tries to figure out a work around that issue, which might mean it ends up being a subpar plan, but will certainly be better than expecting everyone to participate in a plan only to have people not participate and completely ruin it.
-
Vote Count 1.3
Edmund (2): ashersky, yuma
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg
chairs (1): Hydrad
gkrieg (3): Teproc, Witherweaver, EgorK
Joseph2302 (1): chairs
ashersky (4): Joseph2302, XerxesPraelor, Twistedarcher, silverspawn
Not Voting (1): Edmund
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 starts ends October 19 at 6 pm forum time.
-
I think it's an optimization problem... which surprises me a little bit, considering that the setup is from faust who isn't particularly into that kind of stuff afaik, but that's how it looks to me.
No-one seems to have any groundbreaking ideas, so what I think I'm gonna do is
- expand the simulation so that it includes the six specific roles instead of just tiers
- assign each role a value (something like Jailkeeper -> 20, Babysitter -> 14, Hidden Odd-Night Bomb -> 9 - Voyeur -> 6, Neighbor -> 1; these are just gut suggestions though)
- try to optimize the total value town gets on avg. by guessing a set of probabilities with sum < 1 for each role that determines how likely a player is to choose them (& choosing an optimal number of players)
Or, if someone has a different plan that looks better, I'm completely willing to throw all of the maths stuff overboard and do that instead. Like, if what ash has suggested actually worked, it'd be better than anything I can reach with simulations.
-
Plans fail if people refuse to follow them. Then it doesn't matter if it is great or terrible.
I pledge to not follow any plans.
There. Let's move on to scum hunting. I need another mvp for my showcase.
Sorry ash, I can do game theory too.
vote: ash
-
Woohoo wagons!
Vote: Ashersky
-
vote: ash
-
Hooray for recklessness!
-
I like wagons!
Vote: ash
Especially reckless ones!... Is this one reckless though?
-
silver, you underestimate the considerable difference between random and people having reads and making decisions.
not sure what this is referring to.
The alternative to "any plan" isn't "everyone plays randomly", yet this is what it seems like you're considering it in your analysis.
This ash wagon is dumb, as is most often the case with ash wagons.
-
silver, you underestimate the considerable difference between random and people having reads and making decisions.
not sure what this is referring to.
The alternative to "any plan" isn't "everyone plays randomly", yet this is what it seems like you're considering it in your analysis.
This ash wagon is dumb, as is most often the case with ash wagons.
Scum partners foshizzle.
-
silver, you underestimate the considerable difference between random and people having reads and making decisions.
not sure what this is referring to.
The alternative to "any plan" isn't "everyone plays randomly", yet this is what it seems like you're considering it in your analysis.
This ash wagon is dumb, as is most often the case with ash wagons.
the ash wagon is fun, as is most often the case with ash wagons.
vote: teproc for being anti-fun
-
unvote
-
Yuma put me to L-1. Lucky XP and SS were already voting me.
-
If you don't lynch me, I will do whatever it takes to mess up the plan N1 if I don't agree with it.
-
Yuma put me to L-1. Lucky XP and SS were already voting me.
luck for who?
-
That wasn't as fun as it was supposed to be.
Vote: Gkrieg
-
Yuma put me to L-1. Lucky XP and SS were already voting me.
luck for who?
For you.
Vote me again.
-
unvote
Any reason?
-
Vote: yuma for opportunistic L-1 vote on ash.
-
Vote: yuma for opportunistic L-1 vote on ash.
Opportunistic? What opportunity was he going for?
-
Yuma put me to L-1. Lucky XP and SS were already voting me.
luck for who?
For you.
Vote me again.
Ok
vote: ashersky
see reasons above
-
Vote: yuma for opportunistic L-1 vote on ash.
again could I encourage you to change your avatar? to something less moving, and flashing, and bright
-
Yuma put me to L-1. Lucky XP and SS were already voting me.
luck for who?
For you.
Vote me again.
Ok
vote: ashersky
see reasons above
There were reasons?
-
Vote: yuma for opportunistic L-1 vote on ash.
Opportunistic? What opportunity was he going for?
A misguided town member or another scum member could hammer ash there and then, as there wasnt any accusation made against ash anyways.
Vote: yuma for opportunistic L-1 vote on ash.
again could I encourage you to change your avatar? to something less moving, and flashing, and bright
k
-
Vote: yuma for opportunistic L-1 vote on ash.
Opportunistic? What opportunity was he going for?
A misguided town member or another scum member could hammer ash there and then, as there wasnt any accusation made against ash anyways.
That's only really opportunistic if Ash is town.
-
Hmm I get the feeling that there should be some way to get a decent advantage from the setup. But I can't figure anything out right n ow. I do think that leaving everyone to their own choices will probably not end up well so hopefully we can figure something out that will result in much better results.
-
What if we as a group just tried to agree who to give each power too?
scum can stop one or take one of the powers if they end up being chosen. But overall town will have so many PR's that we just win?
-
ahha right thats blue plan. I forgot.
overall I think thats better then just personal choice already.
-
What if we as a group just tried to agree who to give each power too?
scum can stop one or take one of the powers if they end up being chosen. But overall town will have so many PR's that we just win?
Except we won't know if the players we choose are town, either.
So Mafia can block one, plus any scum we choose are misses that provide fake claims to those Mafia players.
Bad.
-
Yuma put me to L-1. Lucky XP and SS were already voting me.
luck for who?
For you.
Vote me again.
Ok
vote: ashersky
see reasons above
Too late. Others unvoted.
-
Vote: yuma for opportunistic L-1 vote on ash.
Opportunistic? What opportunity was he going for?
A misguided town member or another scum member could hammer ash there and then, as there wasnt any accusation made against ash anyways.
Vote: yuma for opportunistic L-1 vote on ash.
I agree, don't like L-1 so early. Vote: yuma
again could I encourage you to change your avatar? to something less moving, and flashing, and bright
k
Thanks
PPE: 2
-
Yuma put me to L-1. Lucky XP and SS were already voting me.
luck for who?
For you.
Vote me again.
Ok
vote: ashersky
see reasons above
Too late. Others unvoted.
Also, I don't see any actual reasons for the vote. Please explain?
-
the ash wagon is fun, as is most often the case with ash wagons.
I think this is his reason.
-
Sounds solid.
-
Yuma put me to L-1. Lucky XP and SS were already voting me.
luck for who?
For you.
Vote me again.
These were the reasons. He ashes me to... What else could I do?
And what wrong with an early L-1? What is it you say about L-1 WW?
-
The demure and Joseph votes in me are way more opportunistic than my vote
-
Yuma put me to L-1. Lucky XP and SS were already voting me.
luck for who?
For you.
Vote me again.
These were the reasons. He ashes me to... What else could I do?
And what wrong with an early L-1? What is it you say about L-1 WW?
L-1 > L-2 > L-3 > ...
-
The demure and Joseph votes in me are way more opportunistic than my vote
Joseph was scummilicious. But he has a scummy meta.
Who is demure?
-
Yuma did you know the correct vote count when you voted?
-
I guess you mean Edmund. The excuse was lame, but I don't have a read on him
-
Ash's reaction to his wagon does not seem townie. It seems distinctively Ashy. Maybe alight scum points for lack of annoyance.
Silver stronger town read for trying to fool people with the doublevote. XP is likely to just not be sure he was already voting. Yuma I'm not sure about.
Apprehensive Teproc is mildly scummy Teproc, but only a little. It's more his character.
Gkrieg voted for me in RVS so let's lynch him. (There's a reason here, I promise.)
New guy I dunno. Hydrad, eh, something. Chairs null as always. I have a feeling Awaclus is in this game so we might as well just lynch him.
Dunno who else is here.
-
Yuma did you know the correct vote count when you voted?
Sure the vote count was like 5 posts above....
-
These were the reasons. He ashes me to... What else could I do?
And what wrong with an early L-1? What is it you say about L-1 WW?
L-1 > L-2 > L-3 > ...
No that isn't it... Something about never too early or a bad time to put someone to L-1...
-
I guess you mean Edmund. The excuse was lame, but I don't have a read on him
sure did! phat (not a typo) fingers!
why scummilicious on joseph but not on edmund
tell me more about this joseph meta. haven't played with him before
I have a feeling Awaclus is in this game so we might as well just lynch him.
He isn't. Otherwise...
-
Yuma did you know the correct vote count when you voted?
Sure the vote count was like 5 posts above....
Right but you obviously know I'm getting at that I can't know that you knew that two votes were already on him.
I mean, not like you haven't accidentally hammered before~!
-
Yuma did you know the correct vote count when you voted?
Sure the vote count was like 5 posts above....
Right but you obviously know I'm getting at that I can't know that you knew that two votes were already on him.
I mean, not like you haven't accidentally hammered before~!
-
Joseph just always feels very scummy
-
Vote Count 1.4
Edmund (1): ashersky
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg
chairs (1): Hydrad
gkrieg (3): Teproc, EgorK, Witherweaver
Joseph2302 (1): chairs
ashersky (4): Joseph2302, XerxesPraelor, silverspawn, yuma
yuma (1): Edmund
Not Voting (1): Twistedarcher
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 starts ends October 19 at 6 pm forum time.
-
As town we want to concentrate all our votes on a single player, correct? That person then is not eligible for a PR but every other player should be. Hardest part is who chooses the PRs,
Redirect could mess this up, though.
-
Basically this is towns one chance for prs, and just saying let's not have a plan and wing it seems irresponsible and throwing away our biggest advantage. This setup is designed for this purpose why would we not take advantage of it?
-
If you don't lynch me, I will do whatever it takes to mess up the plan N1 if I don't agree with it.
This is clearly anti town, why would you do this?
-
Yuma did you know the correct vote count when you voted?
Sure the vote count was like 5 posts above....
Right but you obviously know I'm getting at that I can't know that you knew that two votes were already on him.
I mean, not like you haven't accidentally hammered before~!
I obviously can't know what you are getting at anymore than you can't know that I knew that two votes were already on him.
But what is known is that there was a vote count followed by the votes all within 5 posts. I think missing that would be really, really difficult... even for someone that has had an occasional accidental hammer
-
If you don't lynch me, I will do whatever it takes to mess up the plan N1 if I don't agree with it.
This is clearly anti town, why would you do this?
I disagree. If ash (or myself or anyone) disagrees with a plan and believes that it would do more harm than good it is better to do whatever they can to mess up the plan and publicly declare it as such. I feel the same way.
What is anti-town would be to stay silent about a plan that has flaws or to silently try and mess up the plan.
-
As town we want to concentrate all our votes on a single player, correct? That person then is not eligible for a PR but every other player should be. Hardest part is who chooses the PRs,
Redirect could mess this up, though.
What if we pool town votes onto four players. That leaves 13- 4 -3, so 6, players to get prs (and that's worse case) and heavily discourages the use of redirect.
-
If you don't lynch me, I will do whatever it takes to mess up the plan N1 if I don't agree with it.
This is clearly anti town, why would you do this?
I disagree. If ash (or myself or anyone) disagrees with a plan and believes that it would do more harm than good it is better to do whatever they can to mess up the plan and publicly declare it as such. I feel the same way.
What is anti-town would be to stay silent about a plan that has flaws or to silently try and mess up the plan.
I mean it's clearly anti-town. Voicing concerns is fine, but basically going against the grain to choose a PR that someone else is planning on choosing is terrible. Let's say we all agree I'm to choose Jailkeeper. Everyone agrees, but then Ash votes me, and I can't pick Jailkeeper. Town no longer has a jailkeeper.
A single player can cause a LOT of havoc. They can alone vote anyone off Jailkeeper, and alone keep a player off of a single PR. How is pursuing that strategy not horribly awful for town? It's basically denying your team a PR. How is that helpful.
-
These PRs are also weird. I'm skeptical on Babysitter's utility, and Voyeur seems suboptimal in this setup. Jailkeeper and Bomb seem like the clearcut PRs to go for, followed by Neighbors.
-
You are describing a hypothetical where it would be beneficial (I am assuming) so I imagine ash would go along with it.
Ash is saying if he thinks the plan is bad and is going to be harmful, he will try to stop it.
-
or at least that is what I am saying. Ash can speak for himself.
-
You are describing a hypothetical where it would be beneficial (I am assuming) so I imagine ash would go along with it.
Ash is saying if he thinks the plan is bad and is going to be harmful, he will try to stop it.
D1 fine, but N1 if he's town he should be onboard, whether he agrees with it or not.
-
We we might not want to coordinate
Scum gains knowledge about the powers picked, and can NK them.
I think the upside outweighs the downside here, so I would try to coordinate it.
I agree, and I think there's actually no downside. Us having PRs, and scum knowing what PRs we have, is better than us having no PRs.
-
Blue plan seems gameable by scum, but it also seems like it's clearly better than no plan to me. So what if we get 3 crappy PRs and scum know what they are? It's better than us getting 0 PRs and scum not knowing what they are.
-
Plans fail if people refuse to follow them. Then it doesn't matter if it is great or terrible.
I pledge to not follow any plans.
There. Let's move on to scum hunting. I need another mvp for my showcase.
More anti-town.
Vote: Ashersky
-
Okay, fine, Yuma, why didn't you point out your vote was L-1?
-
Okay, fine, Yuma, why didn't you point out your vote was L-1?
Because it was five posts away from the latest vote count.
I mean, I should have I guess, but at the time I didn't even think about it as I had just barely seen that it would be L-1 without doing any extra work to see that aside from reading through the thread
-
Vote: yuma for opportunistic L-1 vote on ash.
Opportunistic? What opportunity was he going for?
A misguided town member or another scum member could hammer ash there and then, as there wasnt any accusation made against ash anyways.
That's only really opportunistic if Ash is town.
We dont know if he isnt. In case ash was town, it created a big opportunity for scum to basically quickhammer there and then, or a confused town member who forgot the VC.
-
I don't like what ash is doing here, like "hello, awa" do not like, but I'm not sure it is indicative of his alignment
More in a little bit
-
How exactly do Neighbors work in this setup? If Alberto, Ben, and Carl all pick 'Neighbor', what happens? Or do you have to pick 'Neighbor 1' and 'Neighbor 2'? In that case, what happens if Alberto picks 'Neighbor 1', and Ben and Carl pick 'Neighbor 2'?
-
^ ehh I see you added clarifications. Never mind.
-
So, something about the powers that I didn't realize until now is: everyone who gets any power except for the HONB becomes a named townie, and therefore a semi-IC.
This makes the blue plan better and worse. It makes it better because now all powers are worth a lot, even neighbor, and it makes it worse because if one scum is among the 6 players we choose (which is very likely), he can blend in, therefore giving us 1 scum in the set of PR's and 2 scum in the set without PR's instead of 0 scum in the PR's and 3 scum outside the PR's (which is what we get without the Blue Plan).
Scum could still fakeclaim a PR without the Blue Plan, but that gives us a set of 2 people of whom one is scum, which is pretty bad (and scum can't fakeclaim Neighbor if there are 2).
-
Without the blue plan, Neighbors are essentially masons.
-
And another 2 revelations:
- Blocking is way worse than I thought. I thought it would trigger after powers are assigned, which would reduce the number of PR's received, but it triggers after powers are submitted, so if we choose a random plan it doesn't actually do anything except to reduce the player pool by 1... which is nothing.
- We can't do a plan with too large of a player set and have every player vote outside the set to make the vote ineffective, because then Scum can choose Double Redirect and choose one player outside the set - now everyone who voted for that player receives 2 votes and can't receive half the powers. That said, with 9 or fewer players it should be perfectly fine. Just not 11 or 12.
-
More thoughts on our plan:
If we do any random plan (i.e. choose a set of 9 or so people, each one submits a PR via a set of probabilities), this means that scum is almost certainly going to choose Blend in - the only other ability which is even remotely useful is Knowledge.
With blend in, they choose one player, he will submit one PR (most likely option is JK, but they could choose another one for WIFOM) and will either get that power or prevent town from getting it. Even if he doesn't get it, the possibility that he could have makes it so the PR's aren't quite IC's after all.
Man, this is so complicated...
-
If you don't lynch me, I will do whatever it takes to mess up the plan N1 if I don't agree with it.
This is clearly anti town, why would you do this?
I disagree. If ash (or myself or anyone) disagrees with a plan and believes that it would do more harm than good it is better to do whatever they can to mess up the plan and publicly declare it as such. I feel the same way.
What is anti-town would be to stay silent about a plan that has flaws or to silently try and mess up the plan.
I mean it's clearly anti-town. Voicing concerns is fine, but basically going against the grain to choose a PR that someone else is planning on choosing is terrible. Let's say we all agree I'm to choose Jailkeeper. Everyone agrees, but then Ash votes me, and I can't pick Jailkeeper. Town no longer has a jailkeeper.
A single player can cause a LOT of havoc. They can alone vote anyone off Jailkeeper, and alone keep a player off of a single PR. How is pursuing that strategy not horribly awful for town? It's basically denying your team a PR. How is that helpful.
You are wrong, and it's scummy of you not to realize it.
Any plan that specifies who gets the PRs is fundamentally flawed. We don't know who scum is AND scum is helping make and execute plans.
Scum can get the PR if they want. Is that what you want?
-
Have we gotten to the point where we agree there's no good plan yet ?
-
Have we gotten to the point where we agree there's no good plan yet ?
I don't think there's a good plan yet.
-
The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that random plan is... worse than Blue. The stuff I reach with optimizations is not as good as what we get by assigning, and scum can still mess with one PR using Blend In.
-
Dark Blue Plan:
We choose a set of the 3 towniest players, assigning to each one of {Babysitter, Voyeur, HONB}. Each of those will submit the power he is assigned.
We choose a set of the next 2 towniest players. Each of them flips a coin. If it is heads, he submits JK, if it is tails, he submits nothing.
We again choose a set of the next 2 towniest players. Each of them randomizes a 3/4 chance. If it comes true, he submits Neighbor, if it does not, he submits nothing.
Each player votes for a random player among the remaining 6.
-
Rationale of Dark blue over blue:
- In the Blue Plan, Mafia can stop the JK simply by voting him. With 2 players who both have 50% chance of submitting JK, he can either vote for one of them or not; in both cases, it is still exactly 50% that we get a JK. We now have 1/2 JK's on average instead of 0
- 2 Neighbors are arguably stronger than any other single power, since they are semi-masons. With 2 players submitting neighbor, mafia can stop both by submitting mason too. With two doing it only with a 3/4 chance, he has to hope for both to get it, which is slightly above 50%. If only one gets it, we simply have one scum Neighbor instead of no Neighbors at all, which is better.
-
( You get a 3/4 chance by flipping 2 coins. It is true if one or both of them are heads. )
-
I at this point am pretty sure that anything with randomizing choices instead of assigning them (or with letting players do whatever they want, which is similar but worse) is worse than Blue (which again is worse than Dark Blue)
-
I don't want to go into too much detail about what will happen if we follow Dark Blue because that would mean explaining what I think is the perfect scum play, but it does look pretty good. I think the amount of PR's we get is more important than the knowledge scum gets. The strongest aspect of the powers are that they are semi-IC's anyway; semi-IC's being nightkilled is not too bad.
-
Dark blue plan sounds decent
-
I think we definitely need to decide on a plan soon so we can figure out who the towniest people are for the vote. I think that will be the more difficult part
-
We can either compile lists, or we can just do towniest player top set (aka me) and scummiest player (aka ash) excluded.
Moving on, my top scum reads atm are ash and the new guy, though both are fairly weak. Also pretty much my only reads... nothing big has happened.
-
^ + and the rest in signup or reverse -signup order
-
One thing to notice is that neighbors are close to being masons, as one scum can be a PR.
-
I dont even understand what are you doing with all this plan type of stuff...
Cant we just move onto the real game?
-
Top scum reads are SS, XP, Yuma.
Top town are Edmund, chairs.
-
I'm only at L-2. A townie should vote for me.
-
I'm only at L-2. A townie should vote for me.
Vote: Ashersky
Does awesome stuff happen now?
-
Top scum reads are SS, XP, Yuma.
Top town are Edmund, chairs.
Why SS? scum!SS is fairly theory heavy, but he generally doesn't go into this much effort. This sounds more like an interested!town!SS.
Yuma and XP are tossups for me.
-
I didn't heck the vote count by the way, so I'm trusting Ash is not really trying to get himself hammered.
-
check
-
I really think this plan stuff is being pushed by scum, to their extreme advantage.
vote: ashersky
Now, as soon as Faust gets here, you can't be screwed by them any more.
My reads were honest, as far as scum reads went.
-
I don't think considering a plan, or plans, is scummy. I think the way people pushed specific plans were.
Silver was easily the most focused on ensuring scum got as much info as possible, as well as a role for themselves.
TA seemed supportive of him, which is suspect.
XP was as vocal as SS, but without laying anything out -- could be scum wanting a plan but not having had one made yet. Or he really might have had one coming.
-
That's not particularly awesome.
-
Assuming Faust is still awake, he should be able to lock soon.
Even still, there should not be enough time to force everyone to agree to a plan to help scum.
All townies: for the love of winning this game, do not follow a plan proposed by someone who's alignment you do not know.
I mean, ask anyone who has played against scum!me and my plans. They get followed, and town loses.
-
That's not particularly awesome.
Just generally awesome?
-
The best course of action is whatever you can do to keep the scummiest players from getting roles. So vote scummy players tonight.
Then, everyone should choose whatever they think is strongest, to ensure scum catch steal it.
(There may be something to be said for trying to grab a role yourself. You can make that call yourself.)
-
The best course of action is whatever you can do to keep the scummiest players from getting roles. So vote scummy players tonight.
Then, everyone should choose whatever they think is strongest, to ensure scum catch steal it.
(There may be something to be said for trying to grab a role yourself. You can make that call yourself.)
Catch = can't
-
I've thwarted scums plans to use plans to thwart town.
Remember that before you decide to get all angry that I self-voted. I did it in the best interest of town. As always.
-
Assuming Faust is still awake, he should be able to lock soon.
Even still, there should not be enough time to force everyone to agree to a plan to help scum.
All townies: for the love of winning this game, do not follow a plan proposed by someone who's alignment you do not know.
I mean, ask anyone who has played against scum!me and my plans. They get followed, and town loses.
One time we followed your scum!plan and scum lost~
-
Assuming Faust is still awake, he should be able to lock soon.
Even still, there should not be enough time to force everyone to agree to a plan to help scum.
All townies: for the love of winning this game, do not follow a plan proposed by someone who's alignment you do not know.
I mean, ask anyone who has played against scum!me and my plans. They get followed, and town loses.
One time we followed your scum!plan and scum lost~
If you mean liopoil's game, it was still the best plan ever.
-
And anyway, you know this isn't a scum plan.
-
I've thwarted scums plans to use plans to thwart town.
Remember that before you decide to get all angry that I self-voted. I did it in the best interest of town. As always.
I think more reactions would have been better.
Assuming Faust is still awake, he should be able to lock soon.
Even still, there should not be enough time to force everyone to agree to a plan to help scum.
All townies: for the love of winning this game, do not follow a plan proposed by someone who's alignment you do not know.
I mean, ask anyone who has played against scum!me and my plans. They get followed, and town loses.
One time we followed your scum!plan and scum lost~
If you mean liopoil's game, it was still the best plan ever.
For town
-
well I guess we don't have any time to discuss this now.
But if faust doesn't wake up soon I still feel like a plan is better then nothing. Otherwise I think we will end up with almost no PR's. But I could be wrong I guess.
-
well I guess we don't have any time to discuss this now.
But if faust doesn't wake up soon I still feel like a plan is better then nothing. Otherwise I think we will end up with almost no PR's. But I could be wrong I guess.
Remember, easy to catch fakers.
-
Don't mass claim votes.
-
I still think you're wrong about Silver. Even if you're correct about plans, it's more likely that he's mistaken. Scum doesn't like to present pro-scum plans.
-
Anyway, this is the problem with playing with ash - he cares more about hurting the people who don't go along with his blackmail than about playing to his wincon. There's still the possibility he could flip scum though - he plays like this regardless of alignment.
Okay, so plan - seriously consider not trying to get a PR. If you do want to, roll some sort of weighted die to figure out which one. We really don't want to have too many people trying to get the same role.
Night votes won't be very useful - I'd say only do them if you have a read that you trust.
-
And anyway, you know this isn't a scum plan.
Yup, it's an ash plan - 3rd party no matter what the PM says. And 3rd parties should generally be lynched.
-
Assuming Faust is still awake, he should be able to lock soon.
Even still, there should not be enough time to force everyone to agree to a plan to help scum.
All townies: for the love of winning this game, do not follow a plan proposed by someone who's alignment you do not know.
I mean, ask anyone who has played against scum!me and my plans. They get followed, and town loses.
I remember the game where we were scum together, and you purposely got us all lynched. That's another example of not playing to your win con. Scum!ash does it too, I know.
-
Or that recent game where you almost outed us all because you were angry with the mod. Can't you see you're trusting your emotions way too much when thinking about whether what you're doing is useful?
-
The best course of action is whatever you can do to keep the scummiest players from getting roles. So vote scummy players tonight.
Then, everyone should choose whatever they think is strongest, to ensure scum catch steal it.
(There may be something to be said for trying to grab a role yourself. You can make that call yourself.)
This is literally the worst plan ever.
-
Well, in this game I mean.
You should try to make sure town gets roles, which is way more important the stopping the people you day1 read scummy from getting roles.
-
oh for the love of...
We'll do Dark Blue in reverse-signiup order. If you want to win, follow it. I'm not making up an artificial order so you don't have to be afraid that I'm scum choosing a set with all my buddies in it.
Twistedarcher: Submit Babysitter.
Teproc: Submit Hidden Odd Night Bomb.
Edmund: Submit Voyeur.
silverspawn: Flip a Coin: If heads, submit Jailkeeper.
Joseph2302: Flip a Coin. If heads, submit Jailkeeper.
XerxesPraelor: Flip 2 coins. If one or both are heads, submit Neighbor.
EgorK: Flip 2 coins. If one or both are heads, submit Neighbor.
Everyone: randomize a number between 1 and 5. Vote for the player who is that number of the signup list (minus ash).
Even if 2 scum are in this plan, it is still better than full random. If you want to win, do it.
-
If two or more people read this and you're still afraid that scum are among the final 3 of the list or something and you want to do it in signup order instead, post it, and I'll post a new list of submissions before the flip.
Otherwise, follow the plan below.
-
*above
-
maybe ash flips scum, then it should be no question.... he probably won't, but you never know.
-
the awaclus game showed that you have to just lynch super anti town players, so I'm not particularly sad about this one. I would have pushed his lynch regardless of the self-hammer.
It's basically a coinflip & we'll have more productive days in the future.
The only real bad thing is that day 1 was mostly theory talk, so not much in terms of reads....
-
Oh and in case it's not clear: Everyone who isn't included in the plan post: submit no PR
-
Night votes won't be very useful - I'd say only do them if you have a read that you trust.
It would be better not to do them at all, but they're actually mandatory. That's why I said vote for a random player out of the 5 who're not included in the plan - that way, it's effectively non-existent.
-
Lets do player order the other way. I don't trust you or Joseph and I don't want you getting the jk
-
Lets do player order the other way. I don't trust you or Joseph and I don't want you getting the jk
cool. anyone else? if it's just one I'm not comfortable switching it. you could easily be scum knowing there is more scum on top.
(and I will include myself either way)
-
For anyone who thinks I might be scum and considers not following the plan because of it:
It actually makes no sense for scum!me to work out this plan. Idk about you, but I spent several hours simulating setups yesterday. Random doesn't get above like 1,6 PRs on average for town (not including votes) after optimizing probabilities. No plan probably averages... idk maybe 1.2. even if I manage to include 3 scum into the setup of players involved in the plan, it's barely even better than nothing. maybe a little bit. Considering that I'll get flag if we follow the plan and get barely any PRs, that wouldn't even be worth it.
A few people not following the plan hurts it -- a lot. If one more player just yolo's and submits babysitter for no reason, we already have one fewer PR. I really hope no-one does it.
-- and actually, not following the plan makes it worse for town in all cases, even if the entire scum team is on the end of the signup lsit. It's only a question of whether it changes it from good to meh or from meh/bad to awful.
-
The problem is: lots of the PRs are only useful if scum doesn't know who they are - the bomb, for instance. Doing it like this makes it so that we have 0 chance of the bomb being useful, rather than a positive amount.
I second that if you go along with the plan, do it the other direction.
-
Jailkeeper is also just a first-turn kill, and neighbors can still be useful but don't have much power behind them. 1.6 useful PRs on average is better than lots of useless PRs.
-
We're not going to get very many PRs on average unless we're great at predicting each other (which could happen), but doing a plan like this ensures that the PRs we do get through the plan are useless.
-
I'm pretty sure the correct thing to do at this point is just to do random with reasonable probabilities - if ss wants to post the best ones, that would be great, so that all that work can go towards something useful.
-
I second that if you go along with the plan, do it the other direction.
Fine.
Bomb is a valid point... i had not really thought of that.
-
I'm pretty sure the correct thing to do at this point is just to do random with reasonable probabilities - if ss wants to post the best ones, that would be great, so that all that work can go towards something useful.
no. that's bad.
-
Jailkeeper is also just a first-turn kill, and neighbors can still be useful but don't have much power behind them. 1.6 useful PRs on average is better than lots of useless PRs.
you forget that all PR's have semi-IC status. We can start by lynching among the remaining player base, since there can be at most one scum among claimed PR's, most likely zero. That's still quite good.
-
I don't get how this is helpful in anyway whatsoever, or what point this is proving, but OK. I don't freaking get it.
-
Flipped order because two people requested it.
Here is the new list of Submissions (slightly changed to account for the HONB):
silverspawn - Submit Babysitter
gkrieg - Submit Voyeur
Witherweaver - Flip Coin. Heads -> submit Jailkeeper
chairs - Flip Coin. Heads -> submit Jailkeeper
yuma - Flip 2 Coins. One or both heads -> submit Neighbor
Hydrad - Flip 2 Coins. One or both heads -> submit Neighbor
Everyone who has no submission: randomize a 20% chance. If it comes true -> submit HONB. If not -> submit nothing.
Everyone: Randomly vote for one of: {EgorK, XerxesPraelor, Joseph2302, Edmund, Teproc, Twistedarcher}
-
This way, we do everything as above except in signup order instead of reverse and we randomize the HONB instead of assigning it. I believe 20% is close to the ideal value to maxmize the chance that someone gets it.
I don't get how this is helpful in anyway whatsoever, or what point this is proving, but OK. I don't freaking get it.
is this directed at ash or at me?
-
This way, we do everything as above except in signup order instead of reverse and we randomize the HONB instead of assigning it. I believe 20% is close to the ideal value to maxmize the chance that someone gets it.
I don't get how this is helpful in anyway whatsoever, or what point this is proving, but OK. I don't freaking get it.
is this directed at ash or at me?
Ash. You're working towards your win condition regardless of alignment, Ash isn't working towards his win condition regardless of alignment. Of course he's going to be town, and he'll say after the game "I'm right, you're wrong, I had to do this to prove a point", but it's just frustrating that we can't count on people to play straightforward. People's motives should be to win and play straightforward, and it's horrible confusing for teammates when people don't do it. This is two games in a row we've had a self vote for town members to just prove a point, and it's frustrating for the rest of us who actually want to win.
-
Really angry at Ash honestly, this just hurts town so much. I'd gladly give scum a PR for a chance at a lynch, this makes the game so much harder for us and I'm going to go into D2 without a read on a single player, and it'll be D1 minus two townies. Regardless of whether or not the plan was correct/optimal, this is by far worse.
-
Jailkeeper is also just a first-turn kill, and neighbors can still be useful but don't have much power behind them. 1.6 useful PRs on average is better than lots of useless PRs.
you forget that all PR's have semi-IC status. We can start by lynching among the remaining player base, since there can be at most one scum among claimed PR's, most likely zero. That's still quite good.
This is wrong, if we picked 3 scum, they can just claim their PRs (apart from neighbor). Even though there can only be 1 that's actually a PR, we have no way of knowing if the claims are not. In fact, apart from neighbor, whether or not someone was picked to choose a PR should have absolutely no bearing on their alignment, unless I'm missing something?
-
Jailkeeper is also just a first-turn kill, and neighbors can still be useful but don't have much power behind them. 1.6 useful PRs on average is better than lots of useless PRs.
you forget that all PR's have semi-IC status. We can start by lynching among the remaining player base, since there can be at most one scum among claimed PR's, most likely zero. That's still quite good.
This is wrong, if we picked 3 scum, they can just claim their PRs (apart from neighbor). Even though there can only be 1 that's actually a PR, we have no way of knowing if the claims are not. In fact, apart from neighbor, whether or not someone was picked to choose a PR should have absolutely no bearing on their alignment, unless I'm missing something?
I think you're missing something. If scum gets one PR, which is likely, then we split the lynchpool. We divide the playerbase in two halves and know that one half has 2 scum and the other half has 1. That's pretty damn good. It's like a one-shot sensor. If, say, we lynch the right scum out of the PR's, we instantly have a bunch of IC's. Or, if we lynch one of the two from the other half, we know there's just one scum in a pretty big group.
And also - provided that no town player does something stupid - scum who is among our chosen players and doesn't get his PR runs into problems. Voyeur will have to make up targets and such. I'm not sure how useful this is, but it's something. Definitely could see catching players in lies at some point.
-
Hmm.
vote: xp
-
On second thought, I guess not, because several scum could be among the PR's even if they don't use blend in.
Still have to make up targets though.
-
And they're still a problem for scum, because if e.g. babysitter doesn't die, it gives us hints to his alignemnt. scum can choose to leave PR's alive for WIFOM, but then they leave PRs alive.
-
Jailkeeper is also just a first-turn kill, and neighbors can still be useful but don't have much power behind them. 1.6 useful PRs on average is better than lots of useless PRs.
you forget that all PR's have semi-IC status. We can start by lynching among the remaining player base, since there can be at most one scum among claimed PR's, most likely zero. That's still quite good.
This is wrong, if we picked 3 scum, they can just claim their PRs (apart from neighbor). Even though there can only be 1 that's actually a PR, we have no way of knowing if the claims are not. In fact, apart from neighbor, whether or not someone was picked to choose a PR should have absolutely no bearing on their alignment, unless I'm missing something?
I think you're missing something. If scum gets one PR, which is likely, then we split the lynchpool. We divide the playerbase in two halves and know that one half has 2 scum and the other half has 1. That's pretty damn good. It's like a one-shot sensor. If, say, we lynch the right scum out of the PR's, we instantly have a bunch of IC's. Or, if we lynch one of the two from the other half, we know there's just one scum in a pretty big group.
And also - provided that no town player does something stupid - scum who is among our chosen players and doesn't get his PR runs into problems. Voyeur will have to make up targets and such. I'm not sure how useful this is, but it's something. Definitely could see catching players in lies at some point.
I mean, multiple scum won't be PRs, but they can easily say they are and we don't have a great way of proving this without lynching them. It doesn't really divide up the lynch pool since scum just claim what they were assigned by the plan, and it's hard to disprove. It's possible they slip up but it doesn't seem super super likely, although it's possible with Voyeur/JK in existence.
-
Day 1 Final Vote Count
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg
chairs (1): Hydrad
gkrieg (2): Teproc, EgorK
Joseph2302 (1): chairs
ashersky (7): Joseph2302, XerxesPraelor, silverspawn, yuma, Twistedarcher, Witherweaver, ashersky
yuma (1): Edmund
Not Voting (0)
With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
-
"Do not elect this man!" - Santorum quits presidential campaign
The third Republican presidential debate ended with a bang. After getting into a heated debate with Donald Trump, Rick Santorum surprisingly announced withdrawing from the presidential race. In a final emotional plead to the public, he pleaded not to elect Trump as the Republican presidential candidate.
The fight between Santorum and Trump started with the so far little regarded topic of humanitarian aid. Trump had advocated a policy to end all humanitarian aid to developing countries, stating "in these aid programs, America can only lose. Either the coutries remain poor, which means we spent all that money for nothing. Or they develop and get rich. Then they will be competitors of the US. If America wants to be great, other countries need to remain small." Trump also advocated ending American membership in humanitarian organizations like UNICEF.
This comment apparently hit a nerve with devout Catholic Santorum. Explaining the Christian duty to help the poor, he argued that Trump had "no sympathy for those less fortunate than him." Trump reacted with a snarky remark, explaining how he was a self-made man and that any man on the planet could do as good as him, but they were too lazy. He then jokingly added, "Maybe my haircut helped", and suggested replacing humanitarian aid with giving out free haircuts.
Santorum exploded. He called Trump a "man of neither honor nor morality" and a "self-absorbed clown". Turning to the crowd, he said, "this is bigger than me. This is about the Republican party, and even more importantly, about America. For the sake of America, I will end my presidential campaign, and in return, I beg you to fulfil my one last wish: Whatever you do, do not elect this man!"
ashersky has been lynched! He was Rick Santorum, the Townie!
The power distribution phase starts now and lasts 24 hours. Every town player is required to send in a vote during that time. Every town player may also choose a PR they want to get.
Night 1 will start on October 13, 1 am forum time and last until October 14, 10 am forum time. Night actions are due before the end of the Night.
-
Powers have been distributed. All players have received their role PMs (if any). Night 1 starts now and lasts until tomorrow at 10 am forum time. Please submit your night actions in time.
-
Ted Cruz may not become president, say Supreme Court judges
In a much anticipated decision, the Supreme Court ruled today that only those born within the borders of the United States receive the status of a natural-born citizen. This unexpected decision bring Ted Cruz's presidential campaign to an aprupt halt. Many Republicans have criticised the ruling.
Only natural-born citizens may become President of the United States. Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz was born in Canada, a fact which has sparked some discussion on whether or not he is eligible to become president. In the past, many legal experts agreed that he could, leaving but a small minority that opposed this point of view.
This small group, led by legal activist Larry Klayman, has since taken their cause up to the Supreme Court. The Court judges have decided to disagree with the general opinion in a close vote, leaving many commentators astonished. "This may have been one of the least expected decisions this court has made in the last years, and the least justified since their ruling on gay marriage", said fellow presidential candidate Mike Huckabee.
Cruz himself has accepted his defeat - for now. "It is obvious that liberal judges have used this matter to find a way to weaken opposition for the Democrats", said Cruz. Still he said that he had no choice but to accept the ruling, stating he would make it a priority to get a law change until 2020, "to put an end to discrimination against American citizens with a different background". He would then consider running again in 2020 and has warned the press not to write him off just yet: "I'll be back!"
Witherweaver has been killed! He was Ted Cruz, the Town-aligned Neighbor!
Vote Count 2.0
Not Voting (11): gkrieg, chairs, yuma, Hydrad, EgorK, XerxesPraelor, Joseph2302, silverspawn, Edmund, Teproc, Twistedarcher
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 starts now and ends October 21 at 10 am forum time.
-
I have to say that the flavor in this game is completely awesome.
So is anyone able to claim IC?
-
Interesting target for the night kill. I think they were trying to go off radar.
-
Neighbor is one of the more powerful roles here since it's half-mason.
-
That's true. So we should have another neighbor that can be confirmed if no counterclaim
-
Also from this we know ww didn't follow the plan. So I'm back to my off the radar thing
-
Oh except he was supposed to submit jk so they were probably trying to kill the jk
-
I dont think we will be able to confirm another person if they claim and have no counter claim, as there is no confirmation there was 2 neighbours as we see wither broke the plan.
-
Well, that was the worst day 1 I've ever seen. Glad the two players chiefly responsible for it are out of the game (mostly, ash, but I'm also angry at WW for putting him at L-1, that was asking for trouble).
So... yeah, we get to have day 1 all over again except with two less townies, awesome. People can claim, not claim, I have no idea if it's right and I don't care to discuss it to death.
I was going to vote Egork for being completely absent on day 1, but I see now that he had a V/LA too. Did I mention this was the worst day 1 in the history of f.ds ?
I'll go for my second choice, then.
ote: gkrieg
-
vote: gkrieg
-
This looks pretty bad right now.
-
Oh except he was supposed to submit jk so they were probably trying to kill the jk
Do you mean that YOU were trying to kill the jk?
-
vote: gkrieg
why for me?
-
Oh except he was supposed to submit jk so they were probably trying to kill the jk
Do you mean that YOU were trying to kill the jk?
Why would I come out at the beginning of the day explaining the reasoning behind a NK if I were mafia?
-
Oh except he was supposed to submit jk so they were probably trying to kill the jk
Do you mean that YOU were trying to kill the jk?
Why would I come out at the beginning of the day explaining the reasoning behind a NK if I were mafia?
Because telling everyone your scum plan may makes you seem less scummy if you are scum?
-
Also from this we know ww didn't follow the plan. So I'm back to my off the radar thing
... yeah.
rip.
-
vote: Hydrad
-
vote: gkrieg
why for me?
You were vaguely scummy on day 1 and opening the day by talking about the NK is a typical new scum thing.
-
vote: gkrieg
why for me?
You were vaguely scummy on day 1 and opening the day by talking about the NK is a typical new scum thing.
Excellent point. vote: gkrieg
-
Oh my, what do we have here. I guess it still make some sense to look at ash wagon, but with ash hammering himself and L-1 nightkilled...
-
vote: Hydrad
nooo.
although not sure if this is RVS or not. I'm guessing not RVS but I don't see a reason for being on me.
-
vote: chairs
That is sheeping of crappy reasoning and you know it.
-
vote: chairs
That is sheeping of crappy reasoning and you know it.
Yeah, and so was my voting for the "masons".
-
vote: chairs
NK analysis is useful, and town does it at least as much as scum.
-
vote: chairs
NK analysis is useful, and town does it at least as much as scum.
pretty much this. actually for me I think I do it more as town? although I guess I'm also town more often then I am scum...
-
vote: chairs
NK analysis is useful, and town does it at least as much as scum.
So why am I scummier than Teproc?
-
vote: Hydrad
nooo.
although not sure if this is RVS or not. I'm guessing not RVS but I don't see a reason for being on me.
It's not RVS. You are super in the background... that's always scary
Granted, it's a weak reason, but I don't have anything better...
-
okay, NK analysis.
I'm thinking scum voted one of the players who was supposed to pick JK and NK'd the other one. This makes a lot of sense. Alternatively, chairs is scum, but not necessarily.
end of NK analysis. Unfortunately, it's just a safe kill, at least that's how it seems to me. On wagon. sure, but the wagon isn't scummy.
-
I'm giving gkrieg town points for his posts... this kind of confusion is unlikely to be faked, and likely to be town.
-
vote: Hydrad
nooo.
although not sure if this is RVS or not. I'm guessing not RVS but I don't see a reason for being on me.
It's not RVS. You are super in the background... that's always scary
Granted, it's a weak reason, but I don't have anything better...
ah that makes sense.
-
I could also vote: Teproc. Something about blaming WW (for the L-1) rubs me the wrong way.
-
Vote: Joseph
somehow I just realized you were in the game.
-
hey, just because I'm voting for weak reasons doesn't mean you are allowed to do that too.
vore: hydrad
-
hey, just because I'm voting for weak reasons doesn't mean you are allowed to do that too.
vore: hydrad
but why not?
Also has Joseph ever been scum? I can't remember right now.
-
but why not?
Also has Joseph ever been scum? I can't remember right now.
Because I am town. you, on the other hand, you could be scum.
and yes, joseph has been town in his second game I think. faust was getting the scub vibes from him right away and got him lynched.
He was also scum with me once, were he died d1 too but his interactions with me led me to win the game and he got the mvp.
-
but why not?
Also has Joseph ever been scum? I can't remember right now.
Because I am town. you, on the other hand, you could be scum.
and yes, joseph has been town in his second game I think. faust was getting the scub vibes from him right away and got him lynched.
He was also scum with me once, were he died d1 too but his interactions with me led me to win the game and he got the mvp.
hmm I see. I guess that doesn't mean hes scum. I just remember when hes usually in the game hes usually a big topic of discussion D1ish or so but I was hoping that really only happened when hes town. Since it happens when hes scum also I guess that means nothing!
lets see who i should vote instead.
-
Vote: chairs
sounds fun.
also is it just me or does it almost feel like D1 still.
-
Vote: chairs
sounds fun.
oh come on.
-
why chairs?
-
and yes, joseph has been *scum in his second game I think. faust was getting the scub vibes from him right away and got him lynched.
EBWOF
And I even reread that before posting...
-
why chairs?
because wagons :D
also I'm trying to think who may have benifited from the NK. and chairs probably benefited the most I'm guessing.
-
and yes, joseph has been *scum in his second game I think. faust was getting the scub vibes from him right away and got him lynched.
EBWOF
And I even reread that before posting...
Sounds about right, although
-
and yes, joseph has been *scum in his second game I think. faust was getting the scub vibes from him right away and got him lynched.
EBWOF
And I even reread that before posting...
Sounds about right, although I usually get lynched D1 or D2 regardless of alignment
-
also is it just me or does it almost feel like D1 still.
Like D1 in an 11-player game, since we know nothing. Which isn't the best position.
-
why chairs?
because wagons :D
also I'm trying to think who may have benifited from the NK. and chairs probably benefited the most I'm guessing.
I don't even understand how I benefit the most from a WW nightkill.
-
why chairs?
because wagons :D
also I'm trying to think who may have benifited from the NK. and chairs probably benefited the most I'm guessing.
I don't even understand how I benefit the most from a WW nightkill.
well if your scum you now have the option to claim JK and be reasonably safe with that unless someone didn't follow the rules ss made. Where as if WW was still alive you would have to wait till after he claimed or something. At least thats how I see it.
-
why chairs?
because wagons :D
also I'm trying to think who may have benifited from the NK. and chairs probably benefited the most I'm guessing.
I don't even understand how I benefit the most from a WW nightkill.
well if your scum you now have the option to claim JK and be reasonably safe with that unless someone didn't follow the rules ss made. Where as if WW was still alive you would have to wait till after he claimed or something. At least thats how I see it.
town points for hydrad for not knowing what's going on
unvote
vote: gkrieg
-
the kill does not help scum!chairs to claim JK.... because it only makes sense if chairs is not a JK now.
-
I'm going to be honest, I didn't actually read your plan last night, soooo we can probably throw "what should we expect to have happened" out the window, at least partially.
-
I could also vote: Teproc. Something about blaming WW (for the L-1) rubs me the wrong way.
Who else do you want me to blame ? Obviously ash is the main culprit, but putting ash at L-1 is still irresponsible, because that sort of things is always a possibility, and WW's played with ash enough to know that.
Not that it matters, they're both dead.
chairs is probably town, are people voting for him for some reason ?
-
Agree w/Teproc on this. WW would've been an easy mislynch, I think. Killing WW because of SS's plan feels like a newbie scum move, makes me happier to leave my vote as-is.
-
Agree w/Teproc on this. WW would've been an easy mislynch, I think. Killing WW because of SS's plan feels like a newbie scum move, makes me happier to leave my vote as-is.
I'm not that dumb.
-
Agree w/Teproc on this. WW would've been an easy mislynch, I think. Killing WW because of SS's plan feels like a newbie scum move, makes me happier to leave my vote as-is.
Why would it be a newbie scum move? They don't have anything to go off of besides the plan, so why wouldn't you kill people based off of it?
-
Vote Count 2.1
gkrieg (3): Teproc, chairs, silverspawn
chairs (3): gkrieg13, XerxesPraelor, Hydrad
Not Voting (5): yuma, EgorK, Joseph2302, Edmund, Twistedarcher
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends October 21 at 10 am forum time.
-
Agree w/Teproc on this. WW would've been an easy mislynch, I think. Killing WW because of SS's plan feels like a newbie scum move, makes me happier to leave my vote as-is.
Why would it be a newbie scum move? They don't have anything to go off of besides the plan, so why wouldn't you kill people based off of it?
I think veteran players here would make their kills a bit more "woah, that was confusing" for N1. That'd be my goal as scum, anyway - not that I've really ever gotten to be scum for long enough to try.
-
So if we think scum went by The Plan to pick out their NK target, i think that leans towards newbie scum. gkrieg13 isn't actually the newest player, though, I think - pretty sure that's Edmund. I'd be okay with an Edmund lynch.
-
So if we think scum went by The Plan to pick out their NK target, i think that leans towards newbie scum. gkrieg13 isn't actually the newest player, though, I think - pretty sure that's Edmund. I'd be okay with an Edmund lynch.
In response to that, I've actually been scum a couple of times.
Why just ok with an Edmund lynch?
-
Agree w/Teproc on this. WW would've been an easy mislynch, I think. Killing WW because of SS's plan feels like a newbie scum move, makes me happier to leave my vote as-is.
Why would it be a newbie scum move? They don't have anything to go off of besides the plan, so why wouldn't you kill people based off of it?
I think veteran players here would make their kills a bit more "woah, that was confusing" for N1. That'd be my goal as scum, anyway - not that I've really ever gotten to be scum for long enough to try.
I absolutely disagree, you kill PRs early if you know who they are. I don't get why you're arguing that scum killed out of WIFOM in this game, given that we have not much from D1 -- WIFOM kill in this game makes less sense than in just about any game.
-
So if we think scum went by The Plan to pick out their NK target, i think that leans towards newbie scum. gkrieg13 isn't actually the newest player, though, I think - pretty sure that's Edmund. I'd be okay with an Edmund lynch.
In response to that, I've actually been scum a couple of times.
Why just ok with an Edmund lynch?
I don't feel either way about him right now, so "just ok" is right.
Agree w/Teproc on this. WW would've been an easy mislynch, I think. Killing WW because of SS's plan feels like a newbie scum move, makes me happier to leave my vote as-is.
Why would it be a newbie scum move? They don't have anything to go off of besides the plan, so why wouldn't you kill people based off of it?
I think veteran players here would make their kills a bit more "woah, that was confusing" for N1. That'd be my goal as scum, anyway - not that I've really ever gotten to be scum for long enough to try.
I absolutely disagree, you kill PRs early if you know who they are. I don't get why you're arguing that scum killed out of WIFOM in this game, given that we have not much from D1 -- WIFOM kill in this game makes less sense than in just about any game.
That's fair - again, I haven't had the chance to play scum past... maybe D1? in any game. I don't play Mafia anywhere but f.ds.
-
So if we think scum went by The Plan to pick out their NK target, i think that leans towards newbie scum. gkrieg13 isn't actually the newest player, though, I think - pretty sure that's Edmund. I'd be okay with an Edmund lynch.
In response to that, I've actually been scum a couple of times.
Why just ok with an Edmund lynch?
I don't feel either way about him right now, so "just ok" is right.
Hm this is not the reaction I was expecting. It definitely doesn't seem like you're not feeling either way about him, you just had a line of thought which led to Edmund being possibly scum, and then when questioned, you backpedaled on it.
-
So if we think scum went by The Plan to pick out their NK target, i think that leans towards newbie scum. gkrieg13 isn't actually the newest player, though, I think - pretty sure that's Edmund. I'd be okay with an Edmund lynch.
In response to that, I've actually been scum a couple of times.
Why just ok with an Edmund lynch?
I don't feel either way about him right now, so "just ok" is right.
Hm this is not the reaction I was expecting. It definitely doesn't seem like you're not feeling either way about him, you just had a line of thought which led to Edmund being possibly scum, and then when questioned, you backpedaled on it.
I don't feel like I backpedaled on it, but then I did just spend most of my day arguing about whether or not saying Clinton's platform should be more substantive than "I have a vagina" is sexist, so I may not be doing a great job by this point of presenting my opinions meaningfully.
-
So what I'm trying to say is that, on the "not okay with it" to "in favor" scale, right now my list is something like
not okay: silverspawn
lightly against: (basically everyone)
okay: edmund
in favor: gkrieg
To be perfectly fair to gkrieg, fanfiction mafia has me very, very annoyed with him, so I'm probably projecting my frustration there and he'd probably be at like "okay" otherwise.
-
So... yeah, we get to have day 1 all over again except with two less townies, awesome. People can claim, not claim, I have no idea if it's right and I don't care to discuss it to death.
I don't know if it is right or not either, my only argument is that claiming is FUN! So imma doing to do it.
I followed SS's plan, flipped a heads and a tail and submitted for Neighbor
I am a Neighbor
-
WW and I didn't get to talk much as I was fairly absent during the night, but we kinda exchanged reads and I'll give his reads (paraphrased so I don't risk a modkill) although he admitted they weren't worth much:
lean town - SS, TA
lean scum - XP, me (although he said that was lessened a bit by my being his neighbor), Teproc
pretty null on everyone else
-
Oh my, what do we have here. I guess it still make some sense to look at ash wagon, but with ash hammering himself and L-1 nightkilled...
scummy post
vote: EgorK
-
vote: EgorK
-
but why not?
Also has Joseph ever been scum? I can't remember right now.
Because I am town. you, on the other hand, you could be scum.
and yes, joseph has been town in his second game I think. faust was getting the scub vibes from him right away and got him lynched.
He was also scum with me once, were he died d1 too but his interactions with me led me to win the game and he got the mvp.
hmm I see. I guess that doesn't mean hes scum. I just remember when hes usually in the game hes usually a big topic of discussion D1ish or so but I was hoping that really only happened when hes town. Since it happens when hes scum also I guess that means nothing!
lets see who i should vote instead.
also a scummy post. scum tend to feel compelled to constantly have a vote "out there"
not voting at this stage is perfectly acceptable, and something I see town do more often than scum.
-
Agree w/Teproc on this. WW would've been an easy mislynch, I think. Killing WW because of SS's plan feels like a newbie scum move, makes me happier to leave my vote as-is.
Why would it be a newbie scum move? They don't have anything to go off of besides the plan, so why wouldn't you kill people based off of it?
I think veteran players here would make their kills a bit more "woah, that was confusing" for N1. That'd be my goal as scum, anyway - not that I've really ever gotten to be scum for long enough to try.
I absolutely disagree, you kill PRs early if you know who they are. I don't get why you're arguing that scum killed out of WIFOM in this game, given that we have not much from D1 -- WIFOM kill in this game makes less sense than in just about any game.
I am with TA on this 100%. He speaks sense. I think chairs is making a major stretch here in trying to find something scummy that is completely based off a series of poorly established conjectures
so he is probably town
-
I agree with the read on EgorK and TA. Not so much on Hydrad. He did the exact same thing last game.
-
I agree with the read on EgorK and TA. Not so much on Hydrad. He did the exact same thing last game.
I like pressure. then we get more reactions. then we find scum. mafia is so easy.
-
not voting at this stage is perfectly acceptable, and something I see town do more often than scum.
Apply this to me ;)
On a more serious note I do not like how chairs playing "I can't survive d1 as scum" card, but I'd need to see if he is doing this every game
-
Agree w/Teproc on this. WW would've been an easy mislynch, I think. Killing WW because of SS's plan feels like a newbie scum move, makes me happier to leave my vote as-is.
I disagree and I think not following the plan is anti town? Why would you do that? :'(
-
vote: Egork
-
vote: Egork
I would appreciate some explanation
-
Yuma and chairs are town.
I would be willing to look more into XP and EgorK.
-
Why is yuma town ? scum!yuma absolutely claims here. Obviously town!yuma does too, but I don't think his claim means much with regards to his alignment here. Not convinced either way so far.
Agreed about chairs though.
@yuma : Did WW say why he suspected XP ?
-
His last posts feel relaxed and genuine. I thought that he was scummy yesterday, but i've changed my mind on his last posts.
-
This reads like town!yuma to me.
-
Why is yuma town ? scum!yuma absolutely claims here. Obviously town!yuma does too, but I don't think his claim means much with regards to his alignment here. Not convinced either way so far.
Agreed about chairs though.
@yuma : Did WW say why he suspected XP ?
He broke his scumreads into people on the ash wagon (me, XP) and people off the wagon (you). So I would guess that was his main read into it but that is kinda just conjecture on my part
-
I expected Yuma to have a similar reaction to the lynch that teproc had.
-
I expected Yuma to have a similar reaction to the lynch that teproc had.
what reaction did teproc have?
-
not voting at this stage is perfectly acceptable, and something I see town do more often than scum.
Apply this to me ;)
On a more serious note I do not like how chairs playing "I can't survive d1 as scum" card, but I'd need to see if he is doing this every game
I can't survive D1 as scum, I'm pretty sure chairs survived most of a game as scum in at least 1 game I've played in
-
Agree w/Teproc on this. WW would've been an easy mislynch, I think. Killing WW because of SS's plan feels like a newbie scum move, makes me happier to leave my vote as-is.
I disagree and I think not following the plan is anti town? Why would you do that? :'(
Following the plan is only good if you trust ss isn't scum- otherwise he's just trying to manipulate and screw us really hard. I think his plan was better than anything else conjured up in D1, so as long as you thought ss was probably town, it's good to follow the plan
-
not voting at this stage is perfectly acceptable, and something I see town do more often than scum.
Apply this to me ;)
On a more serious note I do not like how chairs playing "I can't survive d1 as scum" card, but I'd need to see if he is doing this every game
I can't survive D1 as scum, I'm pretty sure chairs survived most of a game as scum in at least 1 game I've played in
Stats page says I've only been scum once and was lynched D1.
-
not voting at this stage is perfectly acceptable, and something I see town do more often than scum.
Apply this to me ;)
On a more serious note I do not like how chairs playing "I can't survive d1 as scum" card, but I'd need to see if he is doing this every game
I can't survive D1 as scum, I'm pretty sure chairs survived most of a game as scum in at least 1 game I've played in
Stats page says I've only been scum once and was lynched D1.
Really? And is the stats page up-to-date?
-
not voting at this stage is perfectly acceptable, and something I see town do more often than scum.
Apply this to me ;)
On a more serious note I do not like how chairs playing "I can't survive d1 as scum" card, but I'd need to see if he is doing this every game
I can't survive D1 as scum, I'm pretty sure chairs survived most of a game as scum in at least 1 game I've played in
Stats page says I've only been scum once and was lynched D1.
Why is it relevant and why did you bring it up today?
-
not voting at this stage is perfectly acceptable, and something I see town do more often than scum.
Apply this to me ;)
On a more serious note I do not like how chairs playing "I can't survive d1 as scum" card, but I'd need to see if he is doing this every game
I can't survive D1 as scum, I'm pretty sure chairs survived most of a game as scum in at least 1 game I've played in
Stats page says I've only been scum once and was lynched D1.
Why is it relevant and why did you bring it up today?
Because Joseph said:
not voting at this stage is perfectly acceptable, and something I see town do more often than scum.
Apply this to me ;)
On a more serious note I do not like how chairs playing "I can't survive d1 as scum" card, but I'd need to see if he is doing this every game
I can't survive D1 as scum, I'm pretty sure chairs survived most of a game as scum in at least 1 game I've played in
I'm not sure it's up to date, but I don't recall being scum other than in HP Mafia where I was, in fact, lynched D1.
-
Going to clip this down to just the relevant quote...
I can't survive D1 as scum, I'm pretty sure chairs survived most of a game as scum in at least 1 game I've played in
bold for emphasis on what I was disputing.
-
Going to clip this down to just the relevant quote...
I can't survive D1 as scum, I'm pretty sure chairs survived most of a game as scum in at least 1 game I've played in
bold for emphasis on what I was disputing.
I'll go back and look at past games tomorrow. For now, I'll assume I'm right, Vote:chairs
-
not voting at this stage is perfectly acceptable, and something I see town do more often than scum.
Apply this to me ;)
On a more serious note I do not like how chairs playing "I can't survive d1 as scum" card, but I'd need to see if he is doing this every game
I can't survive D1 as scum, I'm pretty sure chairs survived most of a game as scum in at least 1 game I've played in
Stats page says I've only been scum once and was lynched D1.
Why is it relevant and why did you bring it up today?
Because Joseph said:
not voting at this stage is perfectly acceptable, and something I see town do more often than scum.
Apply this to me ;)
On a more serious note I do not like how chairs playing "I can't survive d1 as scum" card, but I'd need to see if he is doing this every game
I can'td survive D1 as scum, I'm pretty sure chairs survived most of a game as scum in at least 1 game I've played in
I'm not sure it's up to date, but I don't recall being scum other than in HP Mafia where I was, in fact, lynched D1.
You brought it up first in the previous page
-
I expected Yuma to have a similar reaction to the lynch that teproc had.
what reaction did teproc have?
indignant and frustrated at the lynch and ashersky -- his first post today.
-
not voting at this stage is perfectly acceptable, and something I see town do more often than scum.
Apply this to me ;)
On a more serious note I do not like how chairs playing "I can't survive d1 as scum" card, but I'd need to see if he is doing this every game
I can't survive D1 as scum, I'm pretty sure chairs survived most of a game as scum in at least 1 game I've played in
Stats page says I've only been scum once and was lynched D1.
Why is it relevant and why did you bring it up today?
Because Joseph said:
not voting at this stage is perfectly acceptable, and something I see town do more often than scum.
Apply this to me ;)
On a more serious note I do not like how chairs playing "I can't survive d1 as scum" card, but I'd need to see if he is doing this every game
I can'td survive D1 as scum, I'm pretty sure chairs survived most of a game as scum in at least 1 game I've played in
I'm not sure it's up to date, but I don't recall being scum other than in HP Mafia where I was, in fact, lynched D1.
You brought it up first in the previous page
Do you mean where I said (on page 14) that I'd never been scum long enough to try? We'd been discussing that I would benefit most as scum from WW's death, and I stated that I would've probably killed someone more off the wall, and someone said "that's not what scum would do" and I was like "oh, I didn't know, because I've literally never had the chance to think about those things".
-
Vote Count 2.2
gkrieg (2): Teproc, chairs
chairs (3): gkrieg13, Hydrad, Joseph2302
EgorK (3): yuma, XerxesPraelor, silverspawn
Not Voting (3): EgorK, Edmund, Twistedarcher
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends October 21 at 10 am forum time.
-
I expected Yuma to have a similar reaction to the lynch that teproc had.
what reaction did teproc have?
indignant and frustrated at the lynch and ashersky -- his first post today.
What purpose would that serve exactly? The only person I would be frustrated with is ash and he is dead. Anything I have to say to him I'll say after the game. I am not indignant with anyone else...
-
Anyone want to summarize, briefly, what Joseph and chairs are talking about and why it is important... Too many too long didn't reads
-
Anyone want to summarize, briefly, what Joseph and chairs are talking about and why it is important... Too many too long didn't reads
It's not important or relevant at all, which is why I'm curious about why Chairs brought it up.
Basically in my eyes, he said "I wouldn't do this if I were scum! I haven't done it before, so I wouldn't do it now!"
-
This seems like a much different chairs. I don't really like the EgorK lynch anymore. This is how he was acting in Mistborn and it made him an easy mislynch.
-
vote: Egork
I would appreciate some explanation
a wise man once told me it was cool to talk about something and then vote for someone completely unrelated
-
chairs had brought this up in other games, and he was town. As he is in this game.
vote: Egork
I would appreciate some explanation
a wise man once told me it was cool to talk about something and then vote for someone completely unrelated
Who ?
-
Who ?
WW
-
vote: Egork
I would appreciate some explanation
a wise man once told me it was cool to talk about something and then vote for someone completely unrelated
I'd still apreciate explanation
What chairs is doing here seems to me more like town trying to get town credit than scum trying the same
-
why does town need to try and get town cred?
-
why does town need to try and get town cred?
Why does Town need to avoid getting lynched? Because it's one less attempt at lynching Mafia.
I thought that was obvious...
-
why does town need to try and get town cred?
Why does Town need to avoid getting lynched? Because it's one less attempt at lynching Mafia.
I thought that was obvious...
It is obvious that town doesn't want to get lynched.
But that isn't what I was asking.
-
I... don't really see how my defending myself isn't exactly what I stated.
I guess it's a little weird that EgorK phrased it "trying to get town cred" instead of "trying to avoid mislynch".
-
I have no problem with defending yourself and trying to prevent people from lynching you by responding to accusations. But what I generally don't see as necessary is preemptive responses to try and make yourself appear townie, as if you anticipate suspicion, aside from just playing the game and scum hunting.
From what I can tell there wasn't really any suspicion on you, so there wasn't a need to defend yourself and thus what you said just looked like it was preemptive in anticipation of oncoming suspicion--which is a mindset I think scum has.
-
You don't think being one of the two wagons at the time counts as me being responsive?
I didn't feel it was being "preemptive" to try to address concerns at L-3, when I was tied on votes with the other wagon (which was on gkrieg at the time). I felt it was beneficial to Town for me to defend myself then, rather than wait until, say, we had two hours left to lynch, and THEN do it. You're basically telling me "don't defend yourself once it's clear a wagon is building on you" which I think goes against the core of Mafia play. I know that frequently I lurk and I get mislynched because I don't have a lot of meaningful contribution - I still don't have a lot of "I really think this guy is scum" contribution right now, but I could at least contribute by trying to defend myself. Now I feel like your argument is basically "we should punish you for wanting to participate in the game".
-
Hmmm... I think I am confused. I was under the impression that you had zero votes, mostly basing it off the TLDR that TA provided for me here:
Anyone want to summarize, briefly, what Joseph and chairs are talking about and why it is important... Too many too long didn't reads
It's not important or relevant at all, which is why I'm curious about why Chairs brought it up.
Basically in my eyes, he said "I wouldn't do this if I were scum! I haven't done it before, so I wouldn't do it now!"
Which I now see I misinterpreted from TA as meaning that it wasn't relevant because you weren't under suspicion.
As you were up for a lynch then certainly you can defend yourself. I thought, for some reason, that you had no votes and just felt compelled to state what you did out of the blue...
My apologies.
-
Now I feel like your argument is basically "we should punish you for wanting to participate in the game".
and if you ever feel that this is my core argument then please know that it is a misunderstanding. I never want to lynch someone for that. but again, that was my bad in being confused.
this is why I should only play one game at a time...
-
fair 'nuff. I just was like "I don't understand why you think I'm being preemptive here" and since I'm usually called out for -not- participating, I was... a little worked up about being called out for what I felt was participating in a reasonable manner :P
-
yuma, chairs : what do you think about Egork ?
-
yuma, chairs : what do you think about Egork ?
I am voting for him
-
I'm not sure I understand the scum narrative re: EgorK but he did have that odd "Town doing this for Town credit" phrasing that sticks out to me for some reason.
-
Oh my, what do we have here. I guess it still make some sense to look at ash wagon, but with ash hammering himself and L-1 nightkilled...
scummy post
vote: EgorK
I think yuma's spot on here, this does sound pretty scummy. vote: EgorK.
-
I like this active chairs, so I'm going to Unvote:chairs- lynching a usually inactive player for being active isn't a good reason.
I probably want to vote Egor, but want to reread and vote count first.
Request: Vote Count
-
Unofficial:
gkrieg (1): Teproc
chairs (2): gkrieg13, Hydrad
EgorK (4): yuma, XerxesPraelor, silverspawn, chairs
Not Voting (4): EgorK, Edmund, Twistedarcher, Joseph
-
I don't think chairs is really inactive anymore.
I don't get fuzzy town vibes this game though.
-
I don't think chairs is really inactive anymore.
He has been every game I've played with him (although I haven't been around for a month or two)
-
I don't think chairs is really inactive anymore.
He has been every game I've played with him (although I haven't been around for a month or two)
yeah, he has changed in the last month or two.
-
Also, turns out I was right, chairs did play a good scum game here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12764.0)
PPE:1
-
Also, turns out I was right, chairs did play a good scum game here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12764.0)
PPE:1
Do you think Chairs forgetting about a past scum game makes him towny or scummy here?
-
I'd be fine lynching Yuma, on the basis that he's not giving me the pro-town vibes he usually does when he's town.
-
Also, turns out I was right, chairs did play a good scum game here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12764.0)
PPE:1
Well I'll be damned. Sorry for being mad about you lying, since apparently you were right!
-
Now I need to see if we can get the stats page updated :P
-
Also, turns out I was right, chairs did play a good scum game here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12764.0)
PPE:1
Well I'll be damned. Sorry for being mad about you lying, since apparently you were right!
No problem
Also, turns out I was right, chairs did play a good scum game here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12764.0)
PPE:1
Do you think Chairs forgetting about a past scum game makes him towny or scummy here?
I don't think it's a tell either way, because he seems to have been inactive/AFK during the game (28 posts in the whole game). And I tend not to remember games I played when I was busy.
-
I don't think it's a tell either way, because he seems to have been inactive/AFK during the game (28 posts in the whole game). And I tend not to remember games I played when I was busy.
He was too busy opening Neighborhoods and then invisibly lurking and spying on his opponents
-
I don't think it's a tell either way, because he seems to have been inactive/AFK during the game (28 posts in the whole game). And I tend not to remember games I played when I was busy.
He was too busy opening Neighborhoods and then invisibly lurking and spying on his opponents
I remember that now. We'd open a Neighborhood and I'd literally never talk in it.
-
Also, turns out I was right, chairs did play a good scum game here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12764.0)
PPE:1
Well I'll be damned. Sorry for being mad about you lying, since apparently you were right!
No problem
Also, turns out I was right, chairs did play a good scum game here (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12764.0)
PPE:1
Do you think Chairs forgetting about a past scum game makes him towny or scummy here?
I don't think it's a tell either way, because he seems to have been inactive/AFK during the game (28 posts in the whole game). And I tend not to remember games I played when I was busy.
Town points to Joseph for this, I agree that it's not a tell one way or the other -- I wanted to see what Joseph had to say first, though.
-
Is there a reason people are voting egork other than his stereotypical post that scum actually never make?
-
no, and I could vote: XP instead
-
What makes you vote? I'm voting for egorK because of that one scummy post, though Edmund is also a possibility. Grieg is pretty towny, I think.
-
yuma, chairs : what do you think about Egork ?
I am voting for him
Yeah. I see that. I don't understand why though.
-
Vote Count 2.3
gkrieg (1): Teproc
chairs (2): gkrieg13, Hydrad
EgorK (3): yuma, XerxesPraelor, chairs
XerxesPraelor (1): silverspawn
Not Voting (4): EgorK, Edmund, Twistedarcher, Joseph2302
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends October 21 at 10 am forum time.
-
I hath returned. I know how you have all missed me.
uhh so it looks like egork is getting votes on just that one post? Or is there other reasons I'm missing.
-
Is there a reason people are voting egork other than his stereotypical post that scum actually never make?
back...
back...
back that up
cause if I am mafia I am certainly testing the "can we blame the ashersky lynch one someone other than ashersky and get a mislynch?" waters and that is what it looks like egork is doing.
-
yuma, chairs : what do you think about Egork ?
I am voting for him
Yeah. I see that. I don't understand why though.
oh, well see the post above.
-
Is there a reason people are voting egork other than his stereotypical post that scum actually never make?
back...
back...
back that up
cause if I am mafia I am certainly testing the "can we blame the ashersky lynch one someone other than ashersky and get a mislynch?" waters and that is what it looks like egork is doing.
He's not blaming it on anyone though, is he?
-
Is there a reason people are voting egork other than his stereotypical post that scum actually never make?
back...
back...
back that up
cause if I am mafia I am certainly testing the "can we blame the ashersky lynch one someone other than ashersky and get a mislynch?" waters and that is what it looks like egork is doing.
He's not blaming it on anyone though, is he?
Yeah, that's actually the opposite of what he's doing. He's not testing those waters at all, he's saying there's not much use in it. You're not making sense this game which is throwing up red flags to me.
-
He tested the waters and then saw that the water was too cold because I called him out. I don't know maybe I should have waited to see what he would have done, but i don't scum hunt like that...
But it is still a scummy post, see if you can get someone thinking about it and if they take up the torch follow them on it, especially if it is about something that is meaningless, like being on the stupid ash lynchwagon.
And if it isn't very useful then why even bring it up? Cause some one might take it up for you. Egork straddled the fence nicely there
-
He tested the waters and then saw that the water was too cold because I called him out. I don't know maybe I should have waited to see what he would have done, but i don't scum hunt like that...
But it is still a scummy post, see if you can get someone thinking about it and if they take up the torch follow them on it, especially if it is about something that is meaningless, like being on the stupid ash lynchwagon.
And if it isn't very useful then why even bring it up? Cause some one might take it up for you. Egork straddled the fence nicely there
You're assuming intentions that aren't necessarily there. I don't know. For something you're suggesting as a sneaky scum move it's not sneaky at all.
Besides, I think you're reading his post wrong. At no point did he say "Ash and WW aren't here, let's look at the wagon", he said "Ash and WW aren't here, and I would have suspected them, but now I have no one to suspect". I don't see anything indicated he's going after a single player, and I don't see any train of though to follow. It reads to me as just a reaction to the WW night kill and nothing more, I don't get how it's a setup or anything like that.
-
You can argue that he's pushing us to do wagon analysis, fine. But honestly I don't get why that's scummy. He's hinting at us doing wagon analysis, what's the bad outcome there, we actually do wagon analysis? How is someone running with that idea bad? Are you saying you think all scum are off wagon, because that's the logical conclusion to what you're saying.
-
I am saying that trying to find scum on the ash wagon based solely on the ash wagon is futile and would be a misdirect. It is what I would do if I were scum. That is how I approach day starts during the night when I am town. I think what would I do as scum in this scenario and look for it. Egork did just that.
And after last game I weigh more heavily start of day posts. I think they have been under utilized in the past. And this one is scummy. I am sure you find reasons or explanations or theories of why it isn't but you can do that with any scumminess argument...
-
I am saying that trying to find scum on the ash wagon based solely on the ash wagon is futile and would be a misdirect. It is what I would do if I were scum. That is how I approach day starts during the night when I am town. I think what would I do as scum in this scenario and look for it. Egork did just that.
And after last game I weigh more heavily start of day posts. I think they have been under utilized in the past. And this one is scummy. I am sure you find reasons or explanations or theories of why it isn't but you can do that with any scumminess argument...
I agree it would be futile, but I don't think EgorK was pushing it anywhere near as hard as you think, or even at all. Why do you think he was pushing it so hard?
Fanfiction I made some stereotypical "scummy" posts start of D2. Guess what, I was town. People do it. It looks like we just disagree on it though.
More concerning is that you normally read very towny to me and you don't here. Vote: yuma, in fact. Your push on egork here reads so so off to me.
-
You disagree with me, so I am scum? Ok. I can't respond to that as it is an opinion.
And I never said he pushed it hard. I don't know if he would have it not. My post stopped that from happening for better or worse. But he did what I predicted and thought scum would do coming out of the day. If you disagree with that assessment so be it but it doesn't change 1. That I predicted and 2. That he did it.
Awaclus had two stereotypical scummy posts to start two consecutive days. People didn't listen to me and we lost...
-
I think based on the above that exactly 1 of yuma and TA is scum- not sure which one though
-
I think based on the above that exactly 1 of yuma and TA is scum- not sure which one though
These kind of statements amuse me. What's the basis for that conclusion ? I guess it's the most probable outcome statistically, but aside from that I don't really see it.
-
Well, that was the worst day 1 I've ever seen. Glad the two players chiefly responsible for it are out of the game (mostly, ash, but I'm also angry at WW for putting him at L-1, that was asking for trouble).
So... yeah, we get to have day 1 all over again except with two less townies, awesome. People can claim, not claim, I have no idea if it's right and I don't care to discuss it to death.
I was going to vote Egork for being completely absent on day 1, but I see now that he had a V/LA too. Did I mention this was the worst day 1 in the history of f.ds ?
I'll go for my second choice, then.
ote: gkrieg
@yuma : This is me doing exactly what you describe. Granted I go on to vote gkrieg which has nothing to do with the ash wagon, but still. That impulse to talk about yesterday's wagon, which was a significant enough event to be discussed I'd think, does not seem scummy to me at all. I think you're stretching here, because what you're describing as "what you'd do" as scum seems... like a pretty terrible strategy actually. So allow me to doubt that scum!yuma would actually do that.
@TA : Pretty sure yuma being wrong makes him more likely to be town, not the reverse.
My problem in this game is that I'm finding many townreads, but scumreads are hader to come by. gkrieg and Joseph are mildly scummy and that's about it.
-
I like yuma here. yumas town.
In regards to the egork post thing i guess i feel like TA a bit where I don't personally think it matters if scum or town say it. But I've never actually kept track how often it is town or scum.
-
Add TwistedArcher to the town pile. #428 is a town post.
XP's immediate arrival just after getting voted is mildly suspicious.
Joseph jumping onto conclusions and avoiding to take a stance on yuma or TA, also suspicious.
Teproc, what makes you think gkrieg and Joseph are mildly scummy?
-
Well, that was the worst day 1 I've ever seen. Glad the two players chiefly responsible for it are out of the game (mostly, ash, but I'm also angry at WW for putting him at L-1, that was asking for trouble).
So... yeah, we get to have day 1 all over again except with two less townies, awesome. People can claim, not claim, I have no idea if it's right and I don't care to discuss it to death.
I was going to vote Egork for being completely absent on day 1, but I see now that he had a V/LA too. Did I mention this was the worst day 1 in the history of f.ds ?
I'll go for my second choice, then.
ote: gkrieg
@yuma : This is me doing exactly what you describe. Granted I go on to vote gkrieg which has nothing to do with the ash wagon, but still. That impulse to talk about yesterday's wagon, which was a significant enough event to be discussed I'd think, does not seem scummy to me at all. I think you're stretching here, because what you're describing as "what you'd do" as scum seems... like a pretty terrible strategy actually. So allow me to doubt that scum!yuma would actually do that.
That isn't what I am talking about and I think it would potentially be a pretty good strategy out of the gates... Why wouldn't it be?
-
I think based on the above that exactly 1 of yuma and TA is scum- not sure which one though
Fallacy upon fallacy.
-
Wow, an interesting interpretation of my post by yuma
Did anyone have any opinions on Edmund?
-
I think based on the above that exactly 1 of yuma and TA is scum- not sure which one though
These kind of statements amuse me. What's the basis for that conclusion ? I guess it's the most probable outcome statistically, but aside from that I don't really see it.
Statistically most likely and also gut instinct. Certainly don't think it's 2 scum.
-
I think based on the above that exactly 1 of yuma and TA is scum- not sure which one though
These kind of statements amuse me. What's the basis for that conclusion ? I guess it's the most probable outcome statistically, but aside from that I don't really see it.
Statistically most likely and also gut instinct. Certainly don't think it's 2 scum.
More to the point : it's not a statement that contributes anything to the game. Which one do you think is the most likely to be the scum ? Now that'd be relevant.
-
Add TwistedArcher to the town pile. #428 is a town post.
XP's immediate arrival just after getting voted is mildly suspicious.
Joseph jumping onto conclusions and avoiding to take a stance on yuma or TA, also suspicious.
Teproc, what makes you think gkrieg and Joseph are mildly scummy?
gkrieg I talked about earlier, I think NK analysis as your opening post is a typical newbie scum thing. I'm not sure gkrieg still counts as newbie scum thogh, it's at least his second scum game. Just felt weird to me.
Though the more I think about it, the more Joseph's "one scum, one town" statement seems out of place. Sounds a lot like Joseph wanting to say something but not willing to actually say anything. Let's switch, no one seems interested in gkrieg anymore for some reason.
vote: Joseph
-
Ok going to catch up on this game now.
-
vote: Joseph
-
EgorK: Why vote for me during the RVS stage? What made that seem scummy?
ss: even knowing ash was town still doesn't make me think ss is scummy. My main reason for thinking he was scummy was the list order where he put all of my scum reads up for getting PRs, and left my town reads out. Why start in reverse signup order? It's interesting to me that not very many people followed his plan in the end. Does that mean most people think he's scum?
Xp: trying to jump on the analysis wagon at that point seems scummy to me.
Man there really isn't much from D1. Yuma comes off scummy for the Ash vote. That seems super uncharacteristic of him. Also with his neighbor claim. If he and WW were neighbors and he chose to blend in and be the other neighbor, he could kill his partner and not have much suspicion being the other neighbor.
I agree with ash that one of TA, ss, XP are scum. I definitely lean XP in this situation. TA seems towny to me.
Teproc seems towny to me from D2. Didn't have much of a presence D1.
ss: Why did you jump on my wagon? I might have just missed the reason there.
@Joseph: I don't want to lynch chairs just because he is active. He is actively scummy.
scummy to me at this point: chairs, XP, yuma.
-
ss: even knowing ash was town still doesn't make me think ss is scummy. My main reason for thinking he was scummy was the list order where he put all of my scum reads up for getting PRs, and left my town reads out. Why start in reverse signup order?
For two reasons
- I found the bottom half townier
- I wanted to include me no matter what, and doing it in reverse does that implicitly rather than explicitly.
It should be clear that I do it no matter what, so #2 would not be an argument, but I judged that doing it explicitly might cause some people not to follow it.
It's interesting to me that not very many people followed his plan in the end.
I hope that's not true, I only know it of WW and chairs.
-
Vote: XerxesPraelor
-
I'd be fine lynching Edmund
-
I'd be fine lynching Edmund
Did something change after he voted XP?
-
I'd be fine lynching Edmund
Did something change after he voted XP?
ahh... ignore this i guess. I don't know why but I always get you and teproc mixed up.
-
Vote: Joeseph
-
Vote Count 2.4
chairs (1): gkrieg13
EgorK (3): yuma, XerxesPraelor, chairs
yuma (1): Twistedarcher
Joseph2302 (3): Teproc, silverspawn, Hydrad
XerxesPraelor (1): Edmund
Not Voting (2): EgorK, Joseph2302
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends October 21 at 10 am forum time.
-
Man there really isn't much from D1. Yuma comes off scummy for the Ash vote. That seems super uncharacteristic of him. Also with his neighbor claim. If he and WW were neighbors and he chose to blend in and be the other neighbor, he could kill his partner and not have much suspicion being the other neighbor.
How am I scummy from the ash vote?
And I don't get what you are saying about the Neighbor thing. 1. why would anyone blend in just to get the neighbor? if you are going to blend go for something more powerful... or to stop others from getting a powerful role 2. why kill off a fellow neighbor when he could in fact confirm that I was one... doesn't that defeat the point?
-
What the hell guys, I've got 3 votes just because people don't agree with me?!
-
Nice strawman. This is not about disagreeing, otherwise I'd be lynching yuma.
Though the more I think about it, the more Joseph's "one scum, one town" statement seems out of place. Sounds a lot like Joseph wanting to say something but not willing to actually say anything. Let's switch, no one seems interested in gkrieg anymore for some reason.
vote: Joseph
-
Speaking of disageeing with yuma, while I think he greatly underestimates the value for scum to be a neighbor, and completely glosses over the fact that he wouldn't need his other partner to confirm his claim - his claim is foolproof just because no one has counterclaimed - he is still right that it doesn't quite add up. Scum!yuma blending in and picking Neighbor is actually typically what I'd expect from him, but why kill WW immediately ? Why not wait at least a day and see if he can manipulate him a bit (one of the main points of going for Neighbor).
Basically : we know for sure yuma is a Neighbor. Unless WW could have been a Neighbor alone ? Too lazy to check the setup, but I doubt that'd be possible, so yuma has to be telling the truth since we haven't seen a counterclaim. He could be scum telling the truth, but that doesn't quite make sense either because of WW's death.
-
If people really don't think chairs is scummy. vote: Joseph
-
Speaking of disageeing with yuma, while I think he greatly underestimates the value for scum to be a neighbor, and completely glosses over the fact that he wouldn't need his other partner to confirm his claim - his claim is foolproof just because no one has counterclaimed - he is still right that it doesn't quite add up. Scum!yuma blending in and picking Neighbor is actually typically what I'd expect from him, but why kill WW immediately ? Why not wait at least a day and see if he can manipulate him a bit (one of the main points of going for Neighbor).
Basically : we know for sure yuma is a Neighbor. Unless WW could have been a Neighbor alone ? Too lazy to check the setup, but I doubt that'd be possible, so yuma has to be telling the truth since we haven't seen a counterclaim. He could be scum telling the truth, but that doesn't quite make sense either because of WW's death.
Very possible to have a single neighbor with the setup
-
Oh. Well crap. Forget all I said, yuma is null.
-
Man, that's disappointing. Well he's probably slight town actually, but still.
-
I honestly can't remember a single thing joseph has posted except that he got into a conversation with chairs that I ignored. that doesn't necessarily bode well for him, but nor does it mean I want to lynch him...
what's the deal with him exactly?
-
Joseph is scummy, but he's like that a lot.
-
Nice strawman. This is not about disagreeing, otherwise I'd be lynching yuma.
Though the more I think about it, the more Joseph's "one scum, one town" statement seems out of place. Sounds a lot like Joseph wanting to say something but not willing to actually say anything. Let's switch, no one seems interested in gkrieg anymore for some reason.
vote: Joseph
Not properly understanding someone's vote is different from setting up a straw man, and i'm pretty sure joseph was doing the first here.
-
Joseph is scummy, but he's like that a lot.
I'll admit my Joseph!meta might be obsolete at this point, as it's primraily based on his first 2-3 games, but the wya in which he was increidbly scummy there is different from what we have here.
@XP : More like didn't read then, as I'm not sure how you could misconstrue my argument as "I disagree with Joseph, we should lynch him". Now Joseph might be annoyed at people sheeping because it's not exactly a great case, but still.
-
Joseph is scummy, but he's like that a lot.
I'll admit my Joseph!meta might be obsolete at this point, as it's primraily based on his first 2-3 games, but the wya in which he was increidbly scummy there is different from what we have here.
@XP : More like didn't read then, as I'm not sure how you could misconstrue my argument as "I disagree with Joseph, we should lynch him". Now Joseph might be annoyed at people sheeping because it's not exactly a great case, but still.
Yh I'm more annoyed with the unexplained sheeping
-
I honestly can't remember a single thing joseph has posted except that he got into a conversation with chairs that I ignored. that doesn't necessarily bode well for him, but nor does it mean I want to lynch him...
what's the deal with him exactly?
Been busy, and the times I've been free no-one else has been posting (except for the chairs conversation). Also, everyone always thinks I'm scummy.
-
Also, I think ss and Hydrad sheeping to vote for me is a bit scummy, Teproc's reasoning kind of makes sense, but they didn't give a reason. Getting a town vibe from chairs (which is something I don't usually get). And if Yuma is neighbour, then that makes me think TA is scum, since I think the yuma/TA interaction was a town/scum interaction. Vote:TA
-
Hm, I'm going reread TA it seems. Still I would like to hear more opinions about Edmond
-
Im fine with my vote. #460 is an obvious fencesit and just furthers my belief that he is scum.
EgorK, why dont you give an opinion yourself? I havent seen any.
-
Im fine with my vote. #460 is an obvious fencesit and just furthers my belief that he is scum.
ehhh
-
Hm, I'm going reread TA it seems. Still I would like to hear more opinions about Edmond
ditto
-
Hm, I'm going reread TA it seems. Still I would like to hear more opinions about Edmond
ditto
to both of you (EgorK, Xerxes), I would suggest putting out some opinions themselves before demanding them of others...
-
Im fine with my vote. #460 is an obvious fencesit and just furthers my belief that he is scum.
ehhh
?
wot
-
I don't think Yuma will get lynched today and I think Joseph is better than EgorK
Vote: Joseph
-
Speaking of disageeing with yuma, while I think he greatly underestimates the value for scum to be a neighbor, and completely glosses over the fact that he wouldn't need his other partner to confirm his claim - his claim is foolproof just because no one has counterclaimed - he is still right that it doesn't quite add up. Scum!yuma blending in and picking Neighbor is actually typically what I'd expect from him, but why kill WW immediately ? Why not wait at least a day and see if he can manipulate him a bit (one of the main points of going for Neighbor).
Basically : we know for sure yuma is a Neighbor. Unless WW could have been a Neighbor alone ? Too lazy to check the setup, but I doubt that'd be possible, so yuma has to be telling the truth since we haven't seen a counterclaim. He could be scum telling the truth, but that doesn't quite make sense either because of WW's death.
I don't really count the claim in my read on Yuma honestly. He could easily be lying (unlikely) or a scum neighbor (more likely). PRs are pretty unverifiable and aren't counting into my reads all that much this game.
-
Even if he is mafia, i dont think anyone would waste their blend in just to get neighbour and then kill of his neighbour partner. So he is either vanilla mafia (less likely) or neighbour (morr likely)
-
Im fine with my vote. #460 is an obvious fencesit and just furthers my belief that he is scum.
ehhh
?
wot
I don't think #460 is scummy at all
-
Why is that? He is blatantly refusing to commit to a stance on joseph saying hes scummy but his meta allows.
-
because...
Joseph is scummy, but he's like that a lot.
... it's a simple fact.
you can't just ignore context. XP said that Joseph is like that a lot because he is like that a lot. He got lynched day 1 in like his first 3 games or something. it's not as extreme as is used to be, but saying he's like that a lot is definitely still fair.
-
Except Joseph in this game is not scummy in the same way he was in his first games, where he was just doing extremely crazy things and his only hope of survival was "too scummy to be scum".
-
because...
Joseph is scummy, but he's like that a lot.
... it's a simple fact.
you can't just ignore context. XP said that Joseph is like that a lot because he is like that a lot. He got lynched day 1 in like his first 3 games or something. it's not as extreme as is used to be, but saying he's like that a lot is definitely still fair.
I agree, Vote: Edmund- I don't see anything scummy in XP's post.
-
Except Joseph in this game is not scummy in the same way he was in his first games, where he was just doing extremely crazy things and his only hope of survival was "too scummy to be scum". at all
FTFY
-
because...
Joseph is scummy, but he's like that a lot.
... it's a simple fact.
you can't just ignore context. XP said that Joseph is like that a lot because he is like that a lot. He got lynched day 1 in like his first 3 games or something. it's not as extreme as is used to be, but saying he's like that a lot is definitely still fair.
I agree, Vote: Edmund- I don't see anything scummy in XP's post.
maybe not but I don't think it makes edmund scummy either
-
Except Joseph in this game is not scummy in the same way he was in his first games, where he was just doing extremely crazy things and his only hope of survival was "too scummy to be scum".
but why exactly does this make him more likely to be scum now?
-
I think intent to hammer joseph...
-
I think intent to hammer joseph...
uh.
unvote
-
Except Joseph in this game is not scummy in the same way he was in his first games, where he was just doing extremely crazy things and his only hope of survival was "too scummy to be scum".
but why exactly does this make him more likely to be scum now?
This is a new meta for Joseph. It doesn't resemble either his town or scum meta. So him being generally scummy does make him more likely to be scum, no ?
-
I think intent to hammer joseph...
uh.
unvote
why?
-
why?
I think we can do much better than a Joseph lynch.
I could do chairs. Has been flying completely under the radar, said he has not read the plan - which, granted, could be true, but it is also a nice way for scum to avoid suspicion - and has these weird posts about only having been scum once which just feel wrong.
I reread Hydrad, won't lynch him. Egork I reread too - only about a dozen posts - but more town feeling than scum feeling from those. Teproc I think I'd do too. yuma I have absolutely no idea. TA no. Edmund no.
-
Except Joseph in this game is not scummy in the same way he was in his first games, where he was just doing extremely crazy things and his only hope of survival was "too scummy to be scum".
... no?
-
This is a new meta for Joseph. It doesn't resemble either his town or scum meta. So him being generally scummy does make him more likely to be scum, no ?
ah; I meant to quote that post
I think it's more likely that Joseph is ostensibly towny in his next scum game tbh.
vote: Teproc
-
why?
I think we can do much better than a Joseph lynch.
I could do chairs. Has been flying completely under the radar, said he has not read the plan - which, granted, could be true, but it is also a nice way for scum to avoid suspicion - and has these weird posts about only having been scum once which just feel wrong.
I reread Hydrad, won't lynch him. Egork I reread too - only about a dozen posts - but more town feeling than scum feeling from those. Teproc I think I'd do too. yuma I have absolutely no idea. TA no. Edmund no.
alright, I guess that is fair enough. I just thought that since you were voting for him you would be ok with his lynch... did you realize he wasn't an ideal lynch before or after I intended to hammer him?
-
Now let me reread you to see if that changes anything
-
alright, I guess that is fair enough. I just thought that since you were voting for him you would be ok with his lynch... did you realize he wasn't an ideal lynch before or after I intended to hammer him?
I never thought he was a particularly good lynch. I've been extremely loose with my votes this game.
-
Except Joseph in this game is not scummy in the same way he was in his first games, where he was just doing extremely crazy things and his only hope of survival was "too scummy to be scum".
... no?
Do you disagree that Joseph has been scummy this game ?
Do you disagree that Joseph this game has been different than his usual meta, town or scum ?
If not, I don't see what there is to dislike about his lynch, except that there might be better, which :
- chairs: if by "flown under the radar", you mean "has been one of the big topics of conversation in day 2 where everyone should have concluded he's obtwon", then sure.
- Hydrad : nah
- Egork : I guess
PPE : Annoying.
-
meh, it does. you're slightly more aggressive here than in other games, which is like the only thing I have marked as a tentative town read in my teproc category.
vote: ch....
- chairs: if by "flown under the radar", you mean "has been one of the big topics of conversation in day 2 where everyone should have concluded he's obtwon", then sure.
ah, what?
PPE : Annoying.
ah.. sorry :(
-
meh, it does. you're slightly more aggressive here than in other games, which is like the only thing I have marked as a tentative town read in my teproc category.
vote: ch....
Could you clarify... everything in here ? Who is "you", what is a "Teproc category" ? I guess the almost-vote is understandable enough.
-
Another thing to dislike about the Joseph lynch is that it goes so easy. All I had to do is not unvote there and it might have happened already. I think someone once told me that this is a bad tell - was that you? But whoever it was didn't convince me.
Three out of the playerbase are scum, so... I think amount of resistance is a pretty good tell.
-
Why should chairs come of conf!town from that? I thought he came off super scummy?
-
Why should chairs come of conf!town from that? I thought he came off super scummy?
That was me exagerating because he's obv!town to me.
@silver : might have been me. It's not that I don't think it's significant at all, it's just that generalizing about it is very dangerous, I've seen it gone both ways. I'll admit that this is a conern I do share over the Joseph lynch. The funny thing about this argument though, is that as soon as someone takes it seriously (as you are here), it nullifies it for everyone else (since you are now creating resistance to the lynch).
-
meh, it does. you're slightly more aggressive here than in other games, which is like the only thing I have marked as a tentative town read in my teproc category.
vote: ch....
Could you clarify... everything in here ? Who is "you", what is a "Teproc category" ? I guess the almost-vote is understandable enough.
-.- okay, what I meant there was: the only thing I remember as being a halfway reliable town tell for you is that you tend to me more aggressive as town than scum.
Of course, that's no definitive tell, but as we have established in past games, there are no universal tells for you, you can do anything as scum. So...
-
I'm getting townier vibes on Joseph and scummier vibes from silverspawn in the last page, my gut is screaming that this is scum silverspawn white-knighting town Joseph.
unvote
-
The funny thing about this argument though, is that as soon as someone takes it seriously (as you are here), it nullifies it for everyone else (since you are now creating resistance to the lynch).
yeah I guess
-
Ok, I see.
PPE : White knighting is a myth. Well, it's not like scum NEVER does it, but I feel it's a much overused argument. I know I'll defend people strongly regardless of my alignment, and the whole point to do it for scum is nullified by so many people considering it to be a scummy thing.
-
so I am at the point where I think we need to do a lurker lynch. Not just a lurker lynch a scummy lurker lynch (and there is a difference). Between the odd way yesterday ended and the lynch and NK killing off two of the more active posters and as a result this game has somewhat stagnated. There is some conversation but it is between a handful of players to the point that I can't remember some of them...
so for me at this point I am taking off the table: SS, teproc, TA (myself) and to an extent chairs and gkrieg.
I don't know who that leaves but includes Egork and Joseph (both have been scummy enough to lynch in my opinion) and shoudl include what ever other players are out there. I would suggest others look at this subset and decide on a lynch. If scum is in the more active posters we can find them later and use their post volume better to find interactions. Cause this day is just a weird second version of day1 and I don't know what else to do...
thoughts?
-
I'm getting townier vibes on Joseph and scummier vibes from silverspawn in the last page, my gut is screaming that this is scum silverspawn white-knighting town Joseph.
unvote
ehh I am pretty sure I would not ever white-knight as scum. that's just a really bad strategy, you prevent a mislynch and get scumpoints for it.
In my second scum game I did the opposite, I drove a mislynch with as much confidence as I could and got lots of towncred for it and survived until the end and won the game.
really, I am much more likely to defend my partner this way, so if you think I'm scum for this, you should want to lynch joseph more than before.
-
the only times I have white-knighted as scum is when I had a town-read on someone and then felt forced to maintain it throughout the rest of the game when they came under pressure. SS isn't doing that here obviously. I guess you could do it other ways but seems like a poorer strategy in general...
-
yuma - didn't you just state your intent to hammer Joseph? Why are you backpedaling so quickly and are now advocating a lurker lynch?
Granted, you did include Joseph in your list of lurkers, but still... why give up on the old Joseph case just because I unvoted?
-
TA - why did you unvote instead of voting for me? a wise man once told me that lack of commitment is scummy...
-
yuma - didn't you just state your intent to hammer Joseph? Why are you backpedaling so quickly and are now advocating a lurker lynch?
Granted, you did include Joseph in your list of lurkers, but still... why give up on the old Joseph case just because I unvoted?
because the person I was, am still voting for, I think is still scummier than Joseph, EgorK. But it didn't seem like that was going to go through for some reason... But with people leaving Joseph then maybe it means they will go back to EgorK, especially if they actually do what I suggest and focus on the lurkers and find the scummier one from amongst them (and honestly I should probably do the same for the few I can't remember to make sure I am getting this right as well)...
-
I keep hoping I'm going to be the "wise man" in silver's posts but I'm pretty sure it's WW again. I'm jealous.
@yuma : Well yeah, this is day 1 with 2 less townies, because we wasted day 1 entirely. Some people (Egork and me, maybe others) simply did not get to play day 1 because of V/LA. Did I mention it was the worst day 1 in recorded history ?
-
As far as lynching lurkers, I'm always against the idea that lynching lurkers is better on principle, but the people talking seem townie to me overall (except for TA who's mostly null), so I agree... but then again, that was already reflected in my lynch pool.
-
Deadline is also in two days. Not too close yet, but lynching tomorrow would be nice.
-
ss is feeling townier to me now.
teproc. feeling slightly scummier. although this one I don't know why.
-
As far as lynching lurkers, I'm always against the idea that lynching lurkers is better on principle, but the people talking seem townie to me overall (except for TA who's mostly null), so I agree... but then again, that was already reflected in my lynch pool.
there is a difference between lynching lurkers and lynching scummy lurkers....
-
Sure. I see what you're saying, I just happen to think the only scummy people in this particular game are (relative) lurkers anyway.
-
TA - why did you unvote instead of voting for me? a wise man once told me that lack of commitment is scummy...
Shrug, not sure actually. I could have easily, want me to? :P
Really though I think you're less scummy than Yuma, but I'm not voting Yuma because I don't think he's viable, so voting you would make less sense.
I'd lynch a lurker
-
Is there support for Edmund, I'd be absolutely willing to lynch him.
Vote: Edmund
-
Is there support for Edmund, I'd be absolutely willing to lynch him.
Vote: Edmund
only one way to find out!
Vote: Edmund
-
no guys... edmund is bad. worse than Jospeh I think
Is there support for Edmund, I'd be absolutely willing to lynch him.
Vote: Edmund
only one way to find out!
Vote: Edmund
stop being so blatantly opportunistic! At some point the 'too blatant to be scum' will turn into a 'too blatant to be too blatant to be scum'
-
Thats not even my point in XP :-\
Im talking about refusal to take a stance.
-
So, yuma. Scum narrative is
- team chose blend in, chose yuma
- yuma submits Neighbor (assuming town follows the plan, this will make him Neighbors with one turn or just single neighbor
- becomes neighbor with WW who for some reason submitted neighbor because he was too wise to follow the plan.
- decides to NK his neighbor partner
seems kind of... weird? I can't wrap my head around why he would do this. otherwise, I would probably support this lynch.
-
Do people not read my posts ? I had that exact same thought process... then someone (Edmund I think) pointed out that there could very well be only one neighbor. SO you have a new narrative :
- scum chose Knowledge
- yuma fakeclaims Neighbor.
I think yuma is town based on play though, what do you find scummy about him ?
-
- scum chose Knowledge
- yuma fakeclaims Neighbor.
I really don't think scum chose anything other than blend in
-
I think yuma is town based on play though, what do you find scummy about him ?
Primarily the recent post where he suddenly tried to push a lurker lynch just because I unvoted Joseph. Also I feel like he has been much less of a presence than in fanfiction mafia
-
Ya I feel like blend in is just the best strat here. The only way I see knowledge is if they felt like no one was going to follow the plan.
-
Hydrad, reads please.
-
0 = scum 10 = town 5 = null
1. gkrieg - 5.1
2. Witherweaver - 10
3. ashersky - 5.4
4. chairs - 5
5. yuma - 6.8
6. Hydrad - 11
7. EgorK - 4.3
8. XerxesPraelor - 5
9. Joseph2302 - 3.4
10. silverspawn - 6.1
11. Edmund - 3.9
12. Teproc- 3.6
13. Twistedarcher - 4.9
-
2. Witherweaver - 10
3. ashersky - 5.4
I needed a double take to realize what was wrong with this list: WW and ash are dead... scumtrait or towntrait? I lean toward town (can be faked, however... but still lean townyish on this post based off previous examples unfortunately...)
-
Are you going to expand on those or...?
-
Hm, I'm going reread TA it seems. Still I would like to hear more opinions about Edmond
ditto
to both of you (EgorK, Xerxes), I would suggest putting out some opinions themselves before demanding them of others...
I did reread TA, and he came out looking pretty towny in his reactions to ash's actions, which looked proportional but not over the top.
-
I think there tends to be a lot of action around a scum lynch, though there can be a lot to barely enough support. Scum tends to want to either be firmly on the lynch to receive town credit or to make sure it doesn't happen. I don't think the wagon just happens. This makes joseph townier to me.
-
2. Witherweaver - 10
3. ashersky - 5.4
I needed a double take to realize what was wrong with this list: WW and ash are dead... scumtrait or towntrait? I lean toward town (can be faked, however... but still lean townyish on this post based off previous examples unfortunately...)
oh whoops. WW i knew was dead so he got a 10 for IC. i forgot asher was dead though. that explains why I couldn't remember much of him.
-
Hm, I'm going reread TA it seems. Still I would like to hear more opinions about Edmond
ditto
to both of you (EgorK, Xerxes), I would suggest putting out some opinions themselves before demanding them of others...
I did reread TA, and he came out looking pretty towny in his reactions to ash's actions, which looked proportional but not over the top.
Specifically I was talking about your request for opinion on Edmund when you hadn't given any yourself...
-
Are you going to expand on those or...?
Hmmm. I can try but most of it is just gut feeling right now. Like ya I can probably explain how I come to most of these? buuut my train of thinking I feel like most people don't agree with and doesn't ever swing their votes either. so half the time I just say how scummy I think people are since thats just easier and pretty much gets the same point across.
-
Teproc is really null to me - I can't ever read him properly - I genuinely felt he was pretty scummy in that past game where I was IC as scum.
Blend In is definitely the best scum power though. It basically either gets scum a PR or blocks a town one.
-
1. gkrieg
4. chairs
5. yuma
6. Hydrad
7. EgorK
8. XerxesPraelor
9. Joseph2302
10. silverspawn
11. Edmund
12. Teproc
13. Twistedarcher
crossed out players who I feel have posted enough to not be considered a lurker... basically those that I can remember that are in the game based off remembering enough of their posts... if you feel you should have been included maybe you should have posted more... or posted more memorable quotes.
So that leaves Hydrad, EgorK, Xerxes, Joseph and Edmund as candidates: I'll do a quick reread of each and then a quick synopsis, then likely followed by a vote if my hypothesis is correct that there are some scummy lurkers here (I am pretty sure there are at least two even before starting this exercise)...
Hydrad: (32) nothing jumped out at me from his reread. Had one post that read as townyish annoyance in response to WW shutting down his theory talk day1, the last post I just quoted that he included ash/WW reads townie... really the only post that read scummy to me was an opportunistic vote on Edmund, but that is town hydrad to a T.
EgorK: (11) was VLA for most of day1 so nothing there, but VLA pass for that; had the uber scummy initial post at start of day2. other than that he has had posts where he asks people why they are voting for him and asks for opinions on Edmund but doesn't post any himself. I think a scumtell is often that mafia don't scumhunt very much, but I am not sure I have ever seen them not scumhunt completely. Like Egork seems like he could care less about finding scum... or maybe it is that he just isn't very interested in playing this game?
Xerxes: (26) day was almost exclusively theory talk, but again abbreviated day1 I don't really mind that... His day2 posts have been pretty good I think when he has posted in having decent reasons for voting chairs, egork and putting out some opinions. Nothing that is egregiously scummy or townie
Joseph: (34) only thing of note was an opportunistic vote on me for putting ash at L-1 early. had the weird exchange with chairs that chairs ended up getting some heat for, but joseph deserved some as well (or did he get some already). had the 1 of TA/yuma is scum moment (if joseph is scum then I am thinking TA is town as this looks like a setting up TA moment) and has had way too many "people always think I am scummy" defensive moments
Edmund: (20) also had an opportunistic vote on me for putting ash to L-1 early, at least his looked more like a policy vote, so maybe less opportunistic and more annoyed? I like that he is asking scumhunting questions of people. As a newbie that feels more townie than scummy as I know that when I was scum putting myself out there and asking questions meant i was putting myself out there and would get unwanted attention.
so at this point I would be hesitant to lynch: edmund, hydrad
not super thrilled about: xexres
ready and willing: joseph and egork
I could still consider chairs/gkrieg, but I don't really consider them lurkers even if their post counts have been a bit lower, I feel like they have still been pretty involved.
So I'll keep my vote on Egork, but would vote for Joseph and maaaaybe xerxes but I dont' prefer him at all...
-
Out of the remaining players, I think I'd like to lynch out of {EgorK, Edmund, Joseph} Today.
I feel like all of them give us informative "these people defended him, these people support the lynch" data and I'm reasonably certain there's scum in this group, though I haven't quite been able to put my finger on who I think is most likely.
-
Vote Count 2.5
EgorK (3): yuma, XerxesPraelor, chairs
Joseph2302 (1): Teproc
XerxesPraelor (1): Edmund
Twistedarcher (1): gkrieg13
Edmund (3): Joseph2302, Twistedarcher, Hydrad
Teproc (1): silverspawn
Not Voting (1): EgorK
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends October 21 at 10 am forum time.
-
well right now I'm on teproc which is probably my second least preferred lynch
vote: Egork as that's the one I'm okay with most.
-
and request prod on Egork
maybe he comes out with something convincing.
-
11. Edmund - 3.9
explain this one please
-
request prod on Egork
EgorK is not eligible for a prod as he has been active less than 24 hours ago.
-
ah I see
Hm, I'm going reread TA it seems. Still I would like to hear more opinions about Edmond
active indeed. well then, I hope he shows up before the deadline.
or that he's scum and doesn't show up, that works too
-
Intesting. Yuma still call my first post uber scummy. Thing is he came up with some lone of thinking that would kead to my post, but refuses to see that's not the only line of thinking that leads to it. I would call yuma scummy based on some recent post, but that neighbor thing makes him semi IC for bow at least
Edmund - I had that strange vibe from him D1 when he refused to analyze setup. Otherwise I do not remember anything scummy or towny for him
Hydrad - now, his forgetting about ash seems uberscummy for me. I don't know about other players, but I was very annoyed at how D1 ended and I do not see how anyone town can forget about that. On the other hand I can see scum forgetting about it.
So Vote: Hydrad
-
Hydrad - now, his forgetting about ash seems uberscummy for me. I don't know about other players, but I was very annoyed at how D1 ended and I do not see how anyone town can forget about that. On the other hand I can see scum forgetting about it. So Vote: Hydrad
hm
-
Intesting. Yuma still call my first post uber scummy. Thing is he came up with some lone of thinking that would kead to my post, but refuses to see that's not the only line of thinking that leads to it. I would call yuma scummy based on some recent post, but that neighbor thing makes him semi IC for bow at least
Edmund - I had that strange vibe from him D1 when he refused to analyze setup. Otherwise I do not remember anything scummy or towny for him
Hydrad - now, his forgetting about ash seems uberscummy for me. I don't know about other players, but I was very annoyed at how D1 ended and I do not see how anyone town can forget about that. On the other hand I can see scum forgetting about it.
So Vote: Hydrad
How would scum be more likely to forget that?
-
Intesting. Yuma still call my first post uber scummy. Thing is he came up with some lone of thinking that would kead to my post, but refuses to see that's not the only line of thinking that leads to it. I would call yuma scummy based on some recent post, but that neighbor thing makes him semi IC for bow at least
Edmund - I had that strange vibe from him D1 when he refused to analyze setup. Otherwise I do not remember anything scummy or towny for him
Hydrad - now, his forgetting about ash seems uberscummy for me. I don't know about other players, but I was very annoyed at how D1 ended and I do not see how anyone town can forget about that. On the other hand I can see scum forgetting about it.
So Vote: Hydrad
double vote: egorK
-
Intesting. Yuma still call my first post uber scummy. Thing is he came up with some lone of thinking that would kead to my post, but refuses to see that's not the only line of thinking that leads to it. I would call yuma scummy based on some recent post, but that neighbor thing makes him semi IC for bow at least
Edmund - I had that strange vibe from him D1 when he refused to analyze setup. Otherwise I do not remember anything scummy or towny for him
Hydrad - now, his forgetting about ash seems uberscummy for me. I don't know about other players, but I was very annoyed at how D1 ended and I do not see how anyone town can forget about that. On the other hand I can see scum forgetting about it.
So Vote: Hydrad
How would scum be more likely to forget that?
You are triple more likely to remember someone you are annoyed with then someone you're happy with
-
Intesting. Yuma still call my first post uber scummy. Thing is he came up with some lone of thinking that would kead to my post, but refuses to see that's not the only line of thinking that leads to it. I would call yuma scummy based on some recent post, but that neighbor thing makes him semi IC for bow at least
Edmund - I had that strange vibe from him D1 when he refused to analyze setup. Otherwise I do not remember anything scummy or towny for him
Hydrad - now, his forgetting about ash seems uberscummy for me. I don't know about other players, but I was very annoyed at how D1 ended and I do not see how anyone town can forget about that. On the other hand I can see scum forgetting about it.
So Vote: Hydrad
double vote: egorK
Last time you did something like that you was scum successfully mislynching me
-
Last time you did something like that you was scum successfully mislynching me
I have no memory of playing with you before. Hope you don't take offense, but could you enlighten me on this particular circumstance...
-
Last time you did something like that you was scum successfully mislynching me
I have no memory of playing with you before. Hope you don't take offense, but could you enlighten me on this particular circumstance...
I do not remember exact game, I think it was my second. I was what I called it latter in speccy "Robzed", you eventually got modkilled for some reason, that's all I remember
-
wat
I...
I dont even know if thats the poorest mislynch attempt or just plain out terrible.
XP lynch can also reveal a lot, mind you. The interactions with joseph. If he flips scum, joseph will be much more towny, thats why i dont think we should lynch joseph.
-
shouldnt*
-
I think hydrad only forgetting ash would be extremely scummy, but he didn't really need to tell us, so since he might realize it was scummy to remember the NK but not the lynch, it's less scummy.
I'm willing to lynch hydrad, but from egorK's reaction now, I think he's the best lynch still.
-
XP lynch can also reveal a lot, mind you. The interactions with joseph. If he flips scum, joseph will be much more towny, thats why i dont think we should lynch joseph.
What interactions have I had with joseph that would make you say that?
-
I think hydrad only forgetting ash would be extremely scummy, but he didn't really need to tell us, so since he might realize it was scummy to remember the NK but not the lynch, it's less scummy.
Can you rephrase that?
I'm willing to lynch hydrad, but from egorK's reaction now, I think he's the best lynch still.
Why do you think EgorK's reaction is scummy?
-
Reread Hydrad. Not much, though his up to a decimal read lust is weird
-
Reread Hydrad. Not much, though his up to a decimal read lust is weird
. *list
-
Reread Hydrad. Not much, though his up to a decimal read lust is weird
Hydrad always does that
-
Intesting. Yuma still call my first post uber scummy. Thing is he came up with some lone of thinking that would kead to my post, but refuses to see that's not the only line of thinking that leads to it. I would call yuma scummy based on some recent post, but that neighbor thing makes him semi IC for bow at least
Edmund - I had that strange vibe from him D1 when he refused to analyze setup. Otherwise I do not remember anything scummy or towny for him
Hydrad - now, his forgetting about ash seems uberscummy for me. I don't know about other players, but I was very annoyed at how D1 ended and I do not see how anyone town can forget about that. On the other hand I can see scum forgetting about it.
So Vote: Hydrad
double vote: egorK
Which parts do you find scummy?
-
Reread Hydrad. Not much, though his up to a decimal read lust is weird
Hydrad is normally on the lower end of contribution though. Can you point out what's scummier than usual with him?
-
Reread Hydrad. Not much, though his up to a decimal read lust is weird
Hydrad is normally on the lower end of contribution though. Can you point out what's scummier than usual with him?
As of now only him forgetting ash. Nothing towny at all. I understand this isn't much, but there isn't much this game so far. It is almost feel like D1
-
XP lynch can also reveal a lot, mind you. The interactions with joseph. If he flips scum, joseph will be much more towny, thats why i dont think we should lynch joseph.
What interactions have I had with joseph that would make you say that?
I think i have said this a lot of times, but your refusal to commit on a stance on joseph.
-
Reread Hydrad. Not much, though his up to a decimal read lust is weird
Hydrad is normally on the lower end of contribution though. Can you point out what's scummier than usual with him?
As of now only him forgetting ash. Nothing towny at all. I understand this isn't much, but there isn't much this game so far. It is almost feel like D1
Mmm I'm inclined to agree with Yuma here. There's nothing to indicate Hydrad forgetting Ash leans one way or another. Why do you assign a scum tell to that?
-
Reread Hydrad. Not much, though his up to a decimal read lust is weird
Hydrad is normally on the lower end of contribution though. Can you point out what's scummier than usual with him?
As of now only him forgetting ash. Nothing towny at all. I understand this isn't much, but there isn't much this game so far. It is almost feel like D1
Mmm I'm inclined to agree with Yuma here. There's nothing to indicate Hydrad forgetting Ash leans one way or another. Why do you assign a scum tell to that?
I've already answered that - people much more likely to remember something that annoyed them than something that pleased them
-
Last time you did something like that you was scum successfully mislynching me
I have no memory of playing with you before. Hope you don't take offense, but could you enlighten me on this particular circumstance...
I do not remember exact game, I think it was my second. I was what I called it latter in speccy "Robzed", you eventually got modkilled for some reason, that's all I remember
I don't remember getting modkilled in any games. I remember leaving some games so it might be one of those but unless you can pull it up I fail to see how it pertains to this game...
-
Intesting. Yuma still call my first post uber scummy. Thing is he came up with some lone of thinking that would kead to my post, but refuses to see that's not the only line of thinking that leads to it. I would call yuma scummy based on some recent post, but that neighbor thing makes him semi IC for bow at least
Edmund - I had that strange vibe from him D1 when he refused to analyze setup. Otherwise I do not remember anything scummy or towny for him
Hydrad - now, his forgetting about ash seems uberscummy for me. I don't know about other players, but I was very annoyed at how D1 ended and I do not see how anyone town can forget about that. On the other hand I can see scum forgetting about it.
So Vote: Hydrad
double vote: egorK
Which parts do you find scummy?
calling out my line of thinking on him poor, but doesn't actual have an opinion himself, relies on the laurels of others.
saying that hydrad forgetting something is "UBER" scummy. If you want to call it scummy, sure, I guess you can call it that. But UBER... as in reason enough to vote for someone without looking at anything else they have done... that seems like a stretch of a read, aka... made up.
-
Last time you did something like that you was scum successfully mislynching me
I have no memory of playing with you before. Hope you don't take offense, but could you enlighten me on this particular circumstance...
I do not remember exact game, I think it was my second. I was what I called it latter in speccy "Robzed", you eventually got modkilled for some reason, that's all I remember
I don't remember getting modkilled in any games. I remember leaving some games so it might be one of those but unless you can pull it up I fail to see how it pertains to this game...
It was M45. I'm not sure it applies here as you are most likely town here
-
Intesting. Yuma still call my first post uber scummy. Thing is he came up with some lone of thinking that would kead to my post, but refuses to see that's not the only line of thinking that leads to it. I would call yuma scummy based on some recent post, but that neighbor thing makes him semi IC for bow at least
Edmund - I had that strange vibe from him D1 when he refused to analyze setup. Otherwise I do not remember anything scummy or towny for him
Hydrad - now, his forgetting about ash seems uberscummy for me. I don't know about other players, but I was very annoyed at how D1 ended and I do not see how anyone town can forget about that. On the other hand I can see scum forgetting about it.
So Vote: Hydrad
double vote: egorK
Which parts do you find scummy?
calling out my line of thinking on him poor, but doesn't actual have an opinion himself, relies on the laurels of others.
saying that hydrad forgetting something is "UBER" scummy. If you want to call it scummy, sure, I guess you can call it that. But UBER... as in reason enough to vote for someone without looking at anything else they have done... that seems like a stretch of a read, aka... made up.
Uberscummy was overstatement, sure. I felt so then, but now I understand it is not that damning. It is still scummy though and I hadn't seen better cases yet
-
XP lynch can also reveal a lot, mind you. The interactions with joseph. If he flips scum, joseph will be much more towny, thats why i dont think we should lynch joseph.
What interactions have I had with joseph that would make you say that?
I think i have said this a lot of times, but your refusal to commit on a stance on joseph.
Sounds like a plan to me, lynch XP, he flips scum, and then people think I'm townier. Vote:XP
Maybe, just maybe, I'll actually survive past D2 in a mafia game (think I'm only done it twice before)....
-
It was M45. I'm not sure it applies here as you are most likely town here
Alright, well only get into it if you want, but....
I just went through and reread myself quickly in that game and don't see anything that applies to this except that in this game I am voting you and in that one I was voting you.
Everything else from context, to timing (and not to forget my alignment and potentially yours!) seems pretty different. So I don't see what your point was
-
Edmund, have you played other games on f.ds ? Have you played mafia on other sites before ?
-
I'm going back to vote: chairs
-
I think hydrad only forgetting ash would be extremely scummy, but he didn't really need to tell us, so since he might realize it was scummy to remember the NK but not the lynch, it's less scummy.
Can you rephrase that?
I'm willing to lynch hydrad, but from egorK's reaction now, I think he's the best lynch still.
Why do you think EgorK's reaction is scummy?
Why would he explain it if he were scum? I think the only reason would be because he didn't realize it was scummy. Town would explain it because town tells the truth.
His reaction is scummy because it's very accusatory rather than scum-hunting oriented (I realize this isn't that clear, so at least some of it has to come down to gut).
-
Why would he explain it if he were scum?
well, because yuma asked.
-
I'm going back to vote: chairs
why?
Both why is he scummy again. I feel like I should know the answer to this by now, but I can't ever seem to remember...
And why do you think that he will be lynched today? No one else appears to be voting there with you.
-
I'm going back to vote: chairs
why?
Both why is he scummy again. I feel like I should know the answer to this by now, but I can't ever seem to remember...
And why do you think that he will be lynched today? No one else appears to be voting there with you.
What he did earlier in the day mixed with him disappearing after that is what does it for me. I'm actually surprised no one agrees with me here. Is the deadline close? Because it's a different story if it is. He still should at least be on the list.
-
I think I give a lot of weight to Teproc saying that chairs is obv!town
-
deadline line is kinda close. less than 2 days.
Mostly my point is that if you want to start a wagon from scratch you need to put some "UMPH" into it, otherwise everyone is just going to gloss over it. I mean you kinda explained why you were voting for him, but I still don't really know what that means. If he really is scummy to you (and if he is in fact that scummy then maybe we should lynch him), then you gotta show it if you want to see him lynched!
... And I don't mean that you need to build a huge multi-quoting case on him (you can if you want, but sometimes people, including me, go a bit overboard) but something to say "here is why he is a good lynch, or a better lynch than the alternatives" otherwise I am probably not going to leave what I think is a good, high percentage, wagon on EgorK and vote for him... and I am guessing others won't as well.
-
11. Edmund - 3.9
explain this one please
That one is basically usually newbies when they are town I feel like they are really town. Edmund isn't really giving me any townie vibes yet so he gets scum points.
-
As far as me disappearing, I go out of town every Friday night and don't get back until late Sunday. In not totally without access but it is fairly limited as it is solely phone posting, so I don't type walks of text.
-
11. Edmund - 3.9
explain this one please
That one is basically usually newbies when they are town I feel like they are really town. Edmund isn't really giving me any townie vibes yet so he gets scum points.
really? I felt he has been pretty townie:
here was my summary on him...
Edmund: (20) also had an opportunistic vote on me for putting ash to L-1 early, at least his looked more like a policy vote, so maybe less opportunistic and more annoyed? I like that he is asking scumhunting questions of people. As a newbie that feels more townie than scummy as I know that when I was scum putting myself out there and asking questions meant i was putting myself out there and would get unwanted attention.
specifically he has had moments of questioning others that looks like genuine scumhunting... What do you look for in newbies to be town?
-
Edmund doesn't feel like typical newbie town, because he's more assertive and confident than newbie town tends to be... but I think newbie scum is even less likely to be those things.
-
Edmund doesn't feel like typical newbie town, because he's more assertive and confident than newbie town tends to be... but I think newbie scum is even less likely to be those things.
I would agree. And we have had some be assertive and confident right out of the gates... raerae for example, nkirbit was as well. I feel like you were as well Teproc (but you were scum your first game weren't you?)
-
11. Edmund - 3.9
explain this one please
That one is basically usually newbies when they are town I feel like they are really town. Edmund isn't really giving me any townie vibes yet so he gets scum points.
really? I felt he has been pretty townie:
here was my summary on him...
Edmund: (20) also had an opportunistic vote on me for putting ash to L-1 early, at least his looked more like a policy vote, so maybe less opportunistic and more annoyed? I like that he is asking scumhunting questions of people. As a newbie that feels more townie than scummy as I know that when I was scum putting myself out there and asking questions meant i was putting myself out there and would get unwanted attention.
specifically he has had moments of questioning others that looks like genuine scumhunting... What do you look for in newbies to be town?
Usually more hesitant and sometimes clueless is my experience.
PPE: what teproc said
-
Edmund doesn't feel like typical newbie town, because he's more assertive and confident than newbie town tends to be... but I think newbie scum is even less likely to be those things.
I would agree. And we have had some be assertive and confident right out of the gates... raerae for example, nkirbit was as well. I feel like you were as well Teproc (but you were scum your first game weren't you?)
You're thinking of my first full game (Charlie and the Chocolate Factory). I was town in my first game, in which I replaced someone (chairs I think) on day 2, that was GoT mafia. You were in that, we mislynched Voltaire day 3 and mafia (Eevee/mail-mi) won a flawless victory, Matrix6 setup.
But yes, I was assertive in my first game, partly because I had spent a lot of time reading older games (that's why you recruited me if you'll recall).
-
I am a little surprised that I received absolutely no backlash from the idea to lynch among scummy lurkers (Teproc kinda said he was against it, but really only against just lurkers) and as it turns out everyone is voting for people that would be considered "lurkers." That there are so many lurkers the pool has become diluted is a bit beside the point...
mostly I am surprised that no one objected to this idea. I had anticipated there would be some because in mafia there is always some objection to basically anything anyone suggests... I am trying to figure out if it is 1. more that scum is within the non-lurkers and is thrilled with the idea of lynching lurkers or 2. that the idea is just such a universally good idea that any scummy lurkers didn't want to voice displeasure at the idea at risk of people finding them scummy for being against it and 3. think that they can get the scummy lurker to be not on themselves or partners
I lean toward 2. because I think in general if all of the mafia are non-lurkers at least one (or two) would chose to be the "antagonist" just purely for "I told you so" points in the even that a lurker was mislynched....
so I guess I am still ok with my proposed lurker lynch concept
-
I am a little surprised that I received absolutely no backlash from the idea to lynch among scummy lurkers (Teproc kinda said he was against it, but really only against just lurkers) and as it turns out everyone is voting for people that would be considered "lurkers." That there are so many lurkers the pool has become diluted is a bit beside the point...
mostly I am surprised that no one objected to this idea. I had anticipated there would be some because in mafia there is always some objection to basically anything anyone suggests... I am trying to figure out if it is 1. more that scum is within the non-lurkers and is thrilled with the idea of lynching lurkers or 2. that the idea is just such a universally good idea that any scummy lurkers didn't want to voice displeasure at the idea at risk of people finding them scummy for being against it and 3. think that they can get the scummy lurker to be not on themselves or partners
I lean toward 2. because I think in general if all of the mafia are non-lurkers at least one (or two) would chose to be the "antagonist" just purely for "I told you so" points in the even that a lurker was mislynched....
so I guess I am still ok with my proposed lurker lynch concept
I thought there was a scum narrative for you to suggest what you suggested, but... the neighbor thing makes me trust you for now
and if you're town, I think the plan is good
-
Reread TA (for some reason I hadn't remember anything about him this day)
D1 voted for ash because of his antitown stance. I though same about ash but hadn't vote because antitown!ash != scum!ash, but I see his point
D2 argued with yuma about my opening post. Said that yuma didn't give him town vibes as usual, ended up even voting for him. After that gone to Joseph and then Edmund.
Idk. Null as far as I concerned
-
vote: gkrieg
why for me?
You were vaguely scummy on day 1 and opening the day by talking about the NK is a typical new scum thing.
Excellent point. vote: gkrieg
This is the main post in talking about with chairs. He sheeps a really bad argument and then his reaction to me calling him out is scummy.
-
Edmund, have you played other games on f.ds ? Have you played mafia on other sites before ?
I don5 remember playing in f.ds but i have finished two games inmafiascum, one as a replacement and i was lynched in d1 (not lynched, but i was the last partnerless male so i died) and i have 2 ongoing games, one as dead.
-
I am a little surprised that I received absolutely no backlash from the idea to lynch among scummy lurkers (Teproc kinda said he was against it, but really only against just lurkers) and as it turns out everyone is voting for people that would be considered "lurkers." That there are so many lurkers the pool has become diluted is a bit beside the point...
mostly I am surprised that no one objected to this idea. I had anticipated there would be some because in mafia there is always some objection to basically anything anyone suggests... I am trying to figure out if it is 1. more that scum is within the non-lurkers and is thrilled with the idea of lynching lurkers or 2. that the idea is just such a universally good idea that any scummy lurkers didn't want to voice displeasure at the idea at risk of people finding them scummy for being against it and 3. think that they can get the scummy lurker to be not on themselves or partners
I lean toward 2. because I think in general if all of the mafia are non-lurkers at least one (or two) would chose to be the "antagonist" just purely for "I told you so" points in the even that a lurker was mislynched....
so I guess I am still ok with my proposed lurker lynch concept
I thought there was a scum narrative for you to suggest what you suggested, but... the neighbor thing makes me trust you for now
and if you're town, I think the plan is good
and now I feel all paranoid that if this plan to try and lynch a scummy lurker doesn't work toward a scum lynch and we end up with a mislynch instead then you will resurrect this scum!narrative for me to try and get me mislynched tomorrow...
-
I'd rather lynch Egork over Edmund and with the deadline approaching I'll vote: EgorK. Activity has been super low lately. I hope people get on so we can get a lynch today.
-
I believe this is L-1
-
I believe this is L-1
sweet
vote: egorK
-
Vote Count 2.6
EgorK (5): yuma, XerxesPraelor, chairs, silverspawn, gkrieg13
Joseph2302 (1): Teproc
XerxesPraelor (2): Edmund, Joseph2302
Edmund (2): Twistedarcher, Hydrad
Hydrad (1): EgorK
Not Voting (0)
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends October 21 at 10 am forum time.
-
I believe this is L-1
sweet
vote: egorK
haha nice try. Just to let everyone know, that wasn't the hammer
-
I believe this is L-1
sweet
vote: egorK
haha nice try. Just to let everyone know, that wasn't the hammer
This comes off scummy to me.
-
I believe this is L-1
sweet
vote: egorK
haha nice try. Just to let everyone know, that wasn't the hammer
This comes off scummy to me.
Me too. Will be online properly in 2-3 hours
-
I believe this is L-1
sweet
vote: egorK
haha nice try. Just to let everyone know, that wasn't the hammer
it fooled faust... he even locked/unlocked the thread for a bit...
-
I believe this is L-1
sweet
vote: egorK
haha nice try. Just to let everyone know, that wasn't the hammer
This comes off scummy to me.
Me too. Will be online properly in 2-3 hours
to both of you.... why? or rather... how is it scummy?
-
unvote
cause I want an answer to that question
-
unvote
cause I want an answer to that question
I'm confused. Why is what I did scummy enough to unvote? Or do you want an answer from chairs on why it was scummy? I just wanted to make sure people didn't look at the thread, see a "hammer" and leave because the day was already over.
-
unvote
cause I want an answer to that question
I'm confused. Why is what I did scummy enough to unvote? Or do you want an answer from chairs on why it was scummy? I just wanted to make sure people didn't look at the thread, see a "hammer" and leave because the day was already over.
Well... maybe I am confused too. I thought chairs/Joseph were calling my fake hammer scummy (not your saying it was L-1), which is why I wanted an answer. But really I think calling either of those things as "scummy" is questionable, especially without a rationale behind it...
-
unvote
cause I want an answer to that question
I'm confused. Why is what I did scummy enough to unvote? Or do you want an answer from chairs on why it was scummy? I just wanted to make sure people didn't look at the thread, see a "hammer" and leave because the day was already over.
Well... maybe I am confused too. I thought chairs/Joseph were calling my fake hammer scummy (not your saying it was L-1), which is why I wanted an answer. But really I think calling either of those things as "scummy" is questionable, especially without a rationale behind it...
Agreed.
-
I dont think we should really hammer Egork without even a roleclaim. I dont want to lynch a jailkeeper :p
-
Vote: gkrieg, because fakehammer is scummy
-
Would probably be okay with an EgorK lynch though, would prefer Gkrieg lynch though.
-
Vote: gkrieg, because fakehammer is scummy
I am the one that fake hammered...
-
Vote: gkrieg, because fakehammer is scummy
I am the one that fake hammered...
and you didn't say why fake hammering is scummy. you just said that it was as if that were a fact.
-
Would probably be okay with an EgorK lynch though, would prefer Gkrieg lynch though.
This is all sorts of wrong
-
fake hammering is absolutely pro town and everyone who says otherwise is wrong
that said, I agree that gkrieg's reaction was scummy. vote: gkrieg
-
fake hammering is absolutely pro town and everyone who says otherwise is wrong
that said, I agree that gkrieg's reaction was scummy. vote: gkrieg
Why is that scummy? This day was kinda lagging and I didn't want someone to look at the thread and say "oh well I guess that is it for the day" and just leave. Fake hammering is pro town I agree. I guess it wouldn't have been too bad if Faust hadn't already locked and unlocked the thread, showing that there wasn't going to be much twilight once the hammer was actually placed.
-
fake hammering is absolutely pro town and everyone who says otherwise is wrong
that said, I agree that gkrieg's reaction was scummy. vote: gkrieg
Why is that scummy?
a) it defeats the point of the fakehammer, which, as you said, is pro town
b) intuition
-
Vote: gkrieg, because fakehammer is scummy
I am the one that fake hammered...
and you didn't say why fake hammering is scummy. you just said that it was as if that were a fact.
Well, looks like I need to read more carefully then. Also, seems to me that fakehammering is scummy since people slipping information is most likely to give info to scum. If you're scum, you probably won't say anything, but if you're a PR, you might claim, giving scum an easy NK.
Vote: yuma
-
fake hammering is absolutely pro town and everyone who says otherwise is wrong
that said, I agree that gkrieg's reaction was scummy. vote: gkrieg
Why is that scummy?
a) it defeats the point of the fakehammer, which, as you said, is pro town
b) intuition
I agree with a), although that makes gkrieg scummy only if you assume that fakehammer is towny.
-
Vote: gkrieg, because fakehammer is scummy
I am the one that fake hammered...
and you didn't say why fake hammering is scummy. you just said that it was as if that were a fact.
I hate fakehammers, don't see why they help town
-
Vote: gkrieg, because fakehammer is scummy
I am the one that fake hammered...
and you didn't say why fake hammering is scummy. you just said that it was as if that were a fact.
I hate fakehammers, don't see why they help town
They help town because they create real reactions to being lynched.
-
Vote Count 2.7
EgorK (4): yuma, XerxesPraelor, chairs, gkrieg13
Joseph2302 (1): Teproc
XerxesPraelor (1): Edmund
Edmund (2): Twistedarcher, Hydrad
Hydrad (1): EgorK
gkrieg13 (1): silverspawn
yuma (1): Joseph2302
Not Voting (0)
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends October 21 at 10 am forum time.
-
I won't be around for deadline. Too early for me. I will be around tonight to switch around my vote if needed.
-
Vote: gkrieg, because fakehammer is scummy
I am the one that fake hammered...
and you didn't say why fake hammering is scummy. you just said that it was as if that were a fact.
I hate fakehammers, don't see why they help town
still no reason why it is scummy
-
and...
vote: EgorK
this information has been useful to get (and will still be useful tomorrow as long as we remember to come back to it), but I don't think it lessens my desire to lynch EgorK, especially given where all the other wagons are at numbers wise...
-
It's scummy because it's antitown. I saw your fakehammer (and was pretty sure it was fake) just before shutting my phone off (I saw The Martian, it was great you guys), and though "Well, that might create interesting interactions". gkrieg shut that right down. That's antitown. That's not to say town wouldn't do it, but I know I wouldn't have done it.
Scum absolutely would want to clarify the situation if they're scared their partner might do something dumb though, specifically if Egork is their partner. So yeah, it's a bit scummy. Not spectacularly though.
This all seems very obvious to me though, and you not seeing it makes me wonder what the purpose of your fakehammer was then ?
-
I agree that gkrieg's post had the potential to be scummy if it was in isolation...
... but it came immediately after faust's vote count that clarified the post count and said that it wasn't a hammer.
gkrieg didn't ruin any interesting interaction. Instead the lame mod faust did.
-
I mean... I don't know why gkrieg felt compelled to reiterate what faust had just said with his vote count (maybe because there wasn't a (L-1) next to Egork on the vote count? You would have to ask him. But that post wasn't scummy because any benefit from it was already obtained via the vote count...
-
Oh, I missed the vote count. You're right.
-
Intent to hammer. Egork is a light scum read for me, no need to wait for deadline at this point. Fine lynch.
-
Intent to hammer. Egork is a light scum read for me, no need to wait for deadline at this point. Fine lynch.
Intent to hammer. Egork is a light scum read for me, no need to wait for deadline at this point. Fine lynch.
I'm pretty sure h is L-2 now. Ss changed his vote
-
Didn't mean to double quote there
-
Right. ash missing yuma's unvote in his vote count misled me.
vote: Egork
I don't see a better lynch available here, with deadline closing in. Edmund looks townier to me than Egork. I could be convinced to switch to gkrieg or XP potentially.
-
And obviously Joseph, but it looks like that ship has sailed.
-
Probably not around for deadline, so let's do this: Vote: EgorK
I think that's the hammer.
-
...
If Egork flips town, can we please lynch Joseph tomorrow ?
-
Intent to hammer is a thing you know, to let people claim. Like, look five posts above you, you'll see that's what I did when I thought he was L-1.
-
...
If Egork flips town, can we please lynch Joseph tomorrow ?
I would be more likely to lynch Joseph tomorrow if EgorK flips scum as this kinda has the hallmarks of a desperation scum buss...
-
...
If Egork flips town, can we please lynch Joseph tomorrow ?
I would be more likely to lynch Joseph tomorrow if EgorK flips scum as this kinda has the hallmarks of a desperation scum buss...
Sure. As long as we lynch scum, I'm happy (I may or may not have changed my mind by tomorrow, but right now I'm at the very least annoyed).
-
Okay, interesting (TM). I think this was a good lynch, even if it didn't come about in the best way.
-
Ichi must be rich now. I feel like he owes me a few royalties on that deal.
-
...
If Egork flips town, can we please lynch Joseph tomorrow ?
I would be more likely to lynch Joseph tomorrow if EgorK flips scum as this kinda has the hallmarks of a desperation scum buss...
I agree with Yuma here
-
Day 2 Final Vote Count
EgorK (6): yuma, XerxesPraelor, chairs, gkrieg13, Teproc, Joseph2302
XerxesPraelor (1): Edmund
Edmund (2): Twistedarcher, Hydrad
Hydrad (1): EgorK
gkrieg13 (1): silverspawn
Not Voting (0)
With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.
-
High on debate - Kasich forced to drop out of presidential race
At the end of a bizarre debate, Republican presidential candidate John Kasich was stopped by the police and found to be driving under the influence of marijuana. This morning the former Fox News commentator announced that he will drop out of the presidential race.
Rumors have spread quickly after last night's Republican debate, the last one before the first primary on Monday. Uncharacteristically, the name "John Kasich" was ranking highest among Google searches. Kasich however could not be happy about this sudden rise of attention.
Even during the debate, many commentators were surprised at Kasich's demeanor. As Jeb Bush and Donald Trump were getting into another argument about whether Bush's brother kept America safe during his presidency, Kasich suddenly suggested that the two of them should "calm down and relax, and give each other a nice hug". He complained that the two of them were "destroying the vibes".
Even worse, when asked which measures he would take against illegal immigration, he did not respond at all for a bit, and when he did, he said "I don't know man, why do you want to throw them out? I'm sure they're all swell guys, and we'd get along just fine if we gave it a real chance."
At this point, there were already thousands of tweets with the hashtag #HighOnDebate circulating at Twitter, mocking Kasich's behaviour. But only this morning did the police confirmed that Kasich had indeed smoked marijuana before the debate. After the drove very slowly from the debate to his apartment, he was stopped and tested positive.
Kasich announced that he would immediately end his campaign and apologized to all his supporters.
EgorK has been lynched! He was John Kasich, the Vanilla Townie!
Night 2 begins now and ends October 22 at 6 pm forum time. Night actions are due within 24 hours.
-
Assasination attempt overshadows first Republican primary
While celebrating his landslide victory in New Hampshire's presidential primary, Donald Trump has been attacked by a group of illegal immigrants. The FBI suspects a planned assasination attempt and has arrested fellow presidantial candidate Lindsey Graham.
It should have been a night of glory for real estate developer Donald Trump. After having already won the caucus in Iowa a week ago, he beat his contenders by scoring 39.8 percent of the votes in New Hampshire. However, the happiness amongst Trump's supporters was soon replaced by desperation: At 11:14 pm local time, a group of apparently illegal immigrants opened fire on the candidate, killing three bystanders. Trump was immediately brought to the hospital, but remained comatose until now.
The shooters, who according to inside sources are of Mexican origin, stopped firing immediately after hitting Trump, and were swiftly taken into custody by the police. Their motives and how they managed to access the party is still unclear. "I was confused when I saw these folks", said one eye-witness. "You don't usually see these kinds of people at Trump's event. But I gave them the benefit of the doubt. I'll make sure that won't happen next time."
In the meantime, the FBI has arrested Republican candidate Lindsey Graham, in response to a surveillance cam video showing a figure that might be Graham talking to some hispanic citizens hours before the shooting. "We have reason to believe that the attack on Trump was a planned assassination attempt", said an FBI spokesman. "We are currently investigating the potential involvement of Senator Graham, along with several other suspects."
The rest of the Republican field was quick to express their shock at the events of last night. "This is an attack on America and the Republican party, and those responsible need to be brought to justice quickly", said Ben Carson. "It is too bad that I was not there when it happened, of I could have told people to charge the attackers."
silverspawn has been killed! He was Donald Trump, the Town-aligned Babysitter!
Hydrad has been killed! He was Lindsey Graham, the Russian Agent!
Day 3 begins!
Vote Count 3.0
Not Voting (8): gkrieg, chairs, yuma, XerxesPraelor, Joseph2302, Edmund, Teproc, Twistedarcher
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends on October 29, 4 pm foum time.
-
First off : Donald Trump was the babysitter. Of course ?
Second : Nicely done silver.
Third : Everyone needs to reread Hydrad.
-
Also, we should take a look at who seemed to be silver's n°1 scum read. Scum basically knew he was a babysitter (if anyone was likely to follow the plan, it was clearly silver), which means they must have thought he would target someone else. Scum probably has a good chance of being found in silver's null reads : he could have changed his mind of them (hence the choice to kill him as opposed to, say, yuma) but was unlikely to target them.
-
Third : Everyone needs to reread Hydrad.
Here was my reread of him when I was looking to see if he was scum, but now that we know that he IS scum it will be worth going back to take a better knowledge based look.
Hydrad: (32) nothing jumped out at me from his reread. Had one post that read as townyish annoyance in response to WW shutting down his theory talk day1, the last post I just quoted that he included ash/WW reads townie... really the only post that read scummy to me was an opportunistic vote on Edmund, but that is town hydrad to a T.
-
why?
I think we can do much better than a Joseph lynch.
I could do chairs. Has been flying completely under the radar, said he has not read the plan - which, granted, could be true, but it is also a nice way for scum to avoid suspicion - and has these weird posts about only having been scum once which just feel wrong.
I reread Hydrad, won't lynch him. Egork I reread too - only about a dozen posts - but more town feeling than scum feeling from those. Teproc I think I'd do too. yuma I have absolutely no idea. TA no. Edmund no.
If I'm scum!chairs reading this, I'm definitely not killing probablebabysitter!silver. Have I mentioned chairs is town already ?
Points me towards Joseph mostly, though after the hammer he might have been a little worried. yuma also fits. One of the scum could be in the strong town reads... meh, I'm not getting much from this, except chairs is townier, but that's not news.
-
XP is not even mentioned here, silver did vote for him at some point. He probably fits the "worried silver will push him later but not worried silver will target him" narrative then.
-
silver also ended the day suspecting gkrieg a fair bit, makes gkrieg a bit townier.
Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but scum must have thought about the possibility of him being a babysitter right ?
-
vote: TA
-
Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but scum must have thought about the possibility of him being a babysitter right ?
I think it is pretty obvious that scum thought of him as being a babysitter and that was part of the reason they targeted him.
Now I don't know if they would have worried about him targeting them necessarily, or how much. I admit I thought about it from end. I was a bit worried, that if he was town and the babysitter, that he would be targeting me to protect me but end up with us both dying. But thankfully he thought better of that...
So I think this is certainly something worth looking at but probably not something to build a case around, instead a data point to attach to other information.
-
Vote: Joseph
somehow I just realized you were in the game.
hey, just because I'm voting for weak reasons doesn't mean you are allowed to do that too.
vore: hydrad
but why not?
Also has Joseph ever been scum? I can't remember right now.
Could be faked I suppose, but I'm still counting that in the "Town" column for Joseph.
Is there support for Edmund, I'd be absolutely willing to lynch him.
Vote: Edmund
only one way to find out!
Vote: Edmund
Vote: Joeseph
Picture above : Hydrad wagoning Edmund (second vote, close to deadline) and Joseph (third vote).
0 = scum 10 = town 5 = null
1. gkrieg - 5.1
2. Witherweaver - 10
3. ashersky - 5.4
4. chairs - 5
5. yuma - 6.8
6. Hydrad - 11
7. EgorK - 4.3
8. XerxesPraelor - 5
9. Joseph2302 - 3.4
10. silverspawn - 6.1
11. Edmund - 3.9
12. Teproc- 3.6
13. Twistedarcher - 4.9
Not sure what to think yet. Joseph gets townier.
He also apparently confuses TA for me at some point, for whatever that's worth. No interaction with XP whatsoever and a completely null read makes XP scummier.
-
@gkrieg : why TA ?
-
Man, I'm going to reread Hydrad later before I vote, but I kinda want to just vote Teproc for the insane amount of buddying vibe he's giving off. I mean, yes, I'm Town, but it feels like he's taking every excuse to remind everybody of that fact :P
-
I think scum is to come from his null reads, seeing as known town are on either side of the spectrum but not in the middle. he is also off-wagon with him on the EgorK lynch
-
I could also go with XP though
-
I think scum is to come from his null reads, seeing as known town are on either side of the spectrum but not in the middle. he is also off-wagon with him on the EgorK lynch
that all seems like a good reason to look at TA closer. Do you plan on looking closer at TA and how he interacted with Hydrad (and Hydrad with TA) or is this good enough for you?
I mean we have a whole new data set, aren't you going to use it?
-
I think scum is to come from his null reads, seeing as known town are on either side of the spectrum but not in the middle. he is also off-wagon with him on the EgorK lynch
that all seems like a good reason to look at TA closer. Do you plan on looking closer at TA and how he interacted with Hydrad (and Hydrad with TA) or is this good enough for you?
I mean we have a whole new data set, aren't you going to use it?
I thought it was good enough for a beginning of the day vote. I'm at work right now so big rereads aren't possible. Hydrad was an exception because he has like 30 posts and they were all short.
-
Ok did a quick reread. He defends Hydrad as not being scummy in his last 2 or 3 posts. I'm pretty sure that is more likely to come from scum!TA than town!TA. I'm definitely leaving my vote where it is.
-
Ok did a quick reread. He defends Hydrad as not being scummy in his last 2 or 3 posts. I'm pretty sure that is more likely to come from scum!TA than town!TA. I'm definitely leaving my vote where it is.
On a quick reread, I agree with you, seems more like a scum!TA to me.
-
Intent to hammer is a thing you know, to let people claim. Like, look five posts above you, you'll see that's what I did when I thought he was L-1.
It was like 2am where Egor was, and his posting is generally infrequent. Therefore, we could have given the rest of the day, and I think it would have been unlikely he'd actually have claimed.
Also, I did think it was a good lynch- turns out it wasn't the worst (VT lynch isn't so bad).
-
I think scum is to come from his null reads, seeing as known town are on either side of the spectrum but not in the middle. he is also off-wagon with him on the EgorK lynch
Ok I've caught up and this is really really stretching it. You're looking for anything to pile on here -- I get the impression that if I were on the EgorK lynch you would have given scum points for that too.
-
Vote: teproc due to interactions with Hydrad
Hydrad has him as his second highest scum read, but doesn't say anything other than "Teproc feels scummier, not sure why". Good place to start looking today, I think.
-
Ok did a quick reread. He defends Hydrad as not being scummy in his last 2 or 3 posts. I'm pretty sure that is more likely to come from scum!TA than town!TA. I'm definitely leaving my vote where it is.
vote: gkrieg
-
Yeah, I feel like TA is right here:
I think scum is to come from his null reads, seeing as known town are on either side of the spectrum but not in the middle. he is also off-wagon with him on the EgorK lynch
Ok I've caught up and this is really really stretching it. You're looking for anything to pile on here -- I get the impression that if I were on the EgorK lynch you would have given scum points for that too.
vote: gkrieg
-
Well, I remember thinking gkrieg was towny at some point, so I'm reluctant to lynch him.
Chairs is a better lynch here, I think. (I will give reasons soon) vote: chairs
-
Ok did a quick reread. He defends Hydrad as not being scummy in his last 2 or 3 posts. I'm pretty sure that is more likely to come from scum!TA than town!TA. I'm definitely leaving my vote where it is.
vote: gkrieg
Why?
-
Ok did a quick reread. He defends Hydrad as not being scummy in his last 2 or 3 posts. I'm pretty sure that is more likely to come from scum!TA than town!TA. I'm definitely leaving my vote where it is.
vote: gkrieg
Why?
I feel like you are coming at this backwards from how town would. Instead it looks like you came in with a pre-formed agenda against TA that you established over night and then backed it up with stuff relevant to Hydrad's flip.
Whereas I think the town approach is to come in, see the Hydrad flip, reread and as you do see some interactions with TA, become suspicious and then back that up with the other stuff you noticed.
Town I think when they see a mafia flip during the night wipes the slate clean a bit. Mafia already knew Hydrad was mafia so nothing changes for them and you keep going with your original plan, except now down a partner...
And it isn't even that I think you are completely off base about your points on TA, but right now it leans more to me that you are mafia coming in with an agenda to get TA lynched (like you did with chairs in Fanfiction) and that makes me suspect TA less and you more.
-
Scum points to Yuma again. I think town!Yuma points out that while Gkrieg's point of view is wrong and he's embellishing his case, he would point out that both scum and town tend to do this.
Yuma you just haven't been saying any of the things that I'd expect town!Yuma to say this game.
Gkrieg I think you are wrong, but I think you are town.
-
except i am not talking about embellishment at all...
I am talking about approaches. Scum approach scum hunting (fake scum hunting) in certain ways.
Town does in others.
I don't think gkrieg embellished. I think he brought up pertinent points. But the way he did raised a flag for me.
-
All Hydrad votes, Teproc covered some of these already, just following up for thoroughness:
day1:
#52 - chairs (RVS)
day2:
#317 - Joseph (just realizing in the game)
#322 - chairs (RVS?)
#449 - Joseph again
#517 - Edmund (wagoning)
Votes on Hydrad:
Day1:
#59 - SS
Day2:
#302 - SS
#543 - EgorK
So I am with Teproc on leaning a little bit townier on both Joseph and Edmund (those votes were higher up in the L- count)
And there is nothing to see from who voted for Hydrad. Only players that did are dead...
Need to go back and actually reread Hydrad's posts closely, but just from this cursory skimming looking for votes I am not sure there is going to be much there...
-
Ok did a quick reread. He defends Hydrad as not being scummy in his last 2 or 3 posts. I'm pretty sure that is more likely to come from scum!TA than town!TA. I'm definitely leaving my vote where it is.
vote: gkrieg
Why?
I feel like you are coming at this backwards from how town would. Instead it looks like you came in with a pre-formed agenda against TA that you established over night and then backed it up with stuff relevant to Hydrad's flip.
Whereas I think the town approach is to come in, see the Hydrad flip, reread and as you do see some interactions with TA, become suspicious and then back that up with the other stuff you noticed.
Town I think when they see a mafia flip during the night wipes the slate clean a bit. Mafia already knew Hydrad was mafia so nothing changes for them and you keep going with your original plan, except now down a partner...
And it isn't even that I think you are completely off base about your points on TA, but right now it leans more to me that you are mafia coming in with an agenda to get TA lynched (like you did with chairs in Fanfiction) and that makes me suspect TA less and you more.
I was already suspicious of TA. I did a quick reread (like 5 minutes) and I came to the conclusion that I was right. That doesn't really sound like scum reasoning. My agenda to get chairs lynched was a much different situation than this one.
-
All Hydrad votes, Teproc covered some of these already, just following up for thoroughness:
day1:
#52 - chairs (RVS)
day2:
#317 - Joseph (just realizing in the game)
#322 - chairs (RVS?)
#449 - Joseph again
#517 - Edmund (wagoning)
Votes on Hydrad:
Day1:
#59 - SS
Day2:
#302 - SS
#543 - EgorK
So I am with Teproc on leaning a little bit townier on both Joseph and Edmund (those votes were higher up in the L- count)
And there is nothing to see from who voted for Hydrad. Only players that did are dead...
Need to go back and actually reread Hydrad's posts closely, but just from this cursory skimming looking for votes I am not sure there is going to be much there...
I don't think Hydrad's votes give us any information, except that we probably should have watched how Hydrad was voting and gotten that he was scum from that.
-
I'm gonna do a little POE. At least it will spark some conversation. I feel like this died a little bit.
1. gkrieg Obviously
4. chairs I have my reasons
5. yuma For the neighbor thing
8. XerxesPraelor
9. Joseph2302 - for the voting thing
11. Edmund - for the voting thing
12. Teproc
13. Twistedarcher
So this leaves me with XP, Teproc, and TA. I don't feel like Teproc is scum here, so that leaves the team of TA/XP/Hydrad. I'll reread and see if that team makes sense.
-
I was already suspicious of TA. I did a quick reread (like 5 minutes) and I came to the conclusion that I was right. That doesn't really sound like scum reasoning. My agenda to get chairs lynched was a much different situation than this one.
But you didn't start out with they hydrad-TA points, you started out with points that looked like they were pre-formed during the night. I think town, when they see the hydrad flip, shelves those pre-formed thoughts because of the new information the flip provides and comes back to it if the new information correlates.
Scum already knew hydrad was mafia so there wasn't any need to change the pre-formed read.
And I know the agenda to get chairs lynched was different, it was mylo and in conjunction with ash, but the point remains that often scum will plan who they are going to target for a mislynch the night before and how they are going to do it (going back and finding things that could pass off as scummy) and it looks like this is what you did.
-
I'm gonna do a little POE. At least it will spark some conversation. I feel like this died a little bit.
1. gkrieg Obviously
4. chairs I have my reasons
5. yuma For the neighbor thing
8. XerxesPraelor
9. Joseph2302 - for the voting thing
11. Edmund - for the voting thing
12. Teproc
13. Twistedarcher
So this leaves me with XP, Teproc, and TA. I don't feel like Teproc is scum here, so that leaves the team of TA/XP/Hydrad. I'll reread and see if that team makes sense.
What's the voting thing?
-
Day 1 Final Vote Count
Witherweaver (1): gkrieg
chairs (1): Hydrad
gkrieg (2): Teproc, EgorK
Joseph2302 (1): chairs
ashersky (7): Joseph2302, XerxesPraelor, silverspawn, yuma, Twistedarcher, Witherweaver, ashersky
yuma (1): Edmund
Not Voting (0)
With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.
First point against them is that they were both on the ash wagon. Killing on wagon the first knight would be smart because it would have people look more offwagon for analysis.
TA - why did you unvote instead of voting for me? a wise man once told me that lack of commitment is scummy...
Shrug, not sure actually. I could have easily, want me to? :P
Really though I think you're less scummy than Yuma, but I'm not voting Yuma because I don't think he's viable, so voting you would make less sense.
I'd lynch a lurker
This post doesn't go with the interaction part but I took it just to point out that in mistborn when scum!TA made a mistake, he had a similar reaction when someone called him out on it. I bought it that time. I'm not sure if it is that kind of a situation, this is just the reaction TA had last time.
0 = scum 10 = town 5 = null
1. gkrieg - 5.1
2. Witherweaver - 10
3. ashersky - 5.4
4. chairs - 5
5. yuma - 6.8
6. Hydrad - 11
7. EgorK - 4.3
8. XerxesPraelor - 5
9. Joseph2302 - 3.4
10. silverspawn - 6.1
11. Edmund - 3.9
12. Teproc- 3.6
13. Twistedarcher - 4.9
Hydrad's reads list has them both at even null reads. I'm not sure if this strengthens the case on them or weakens it.
Reread Hydrad. Not much, though his up to a decimal read lust is weird
Hydrad is normally on the lower end of contribution though. Can you point out what's scummier than usual with him?
Here TA defends Hydrad.
Reread Hydrad. Not much, though his up to a decimal read lust is weird
Hydrad is normally on the lower end of contribution though. Can you point out what's scummier than usual with him?
As of now only him forgetting ash. Nothing towny at all. I understand this isn't much, but there isn't much this game so far. It is almost feel like D1
Mmm I'm inclined to agree with Yuma here. There's nothing to indicate Hydrad forgetting Ash leans one way or another. Why do you assign a scum tell to that?
More Hydrad defending.
The problem is: lots of the PRs are only useful if scum doesn't know who they are - the bomb, for instance. Doing it like this makes it so that we have 0 chance of the bomb being useful, rather than a positive amount.
I second that if you go along with the plan, do it the other direction.
For XP, this post doesn't make much sense if TA is his partner. As it stood, TA and XP were supposed to get PRs. 2 scum in the group is pretty good, except that neither of them would have gotten good PRs.
I have to say that the flavor in this game is completely awesome.
So is anyone able to claim IC?
Rolefishing
Hm, I'm going reread TA it seems. Still I would like to hear more opinions about Edmond
ditto
to both of you (EgorK, Xerxes), I would suggest putting out some opinions themselves before demanding them of others...
I did reread TA, and he came out looking pretty towny in his reactions to ash's actions, which looked proportional but not over the top.
This is the post that ties them together the strongest.
I think hydrad only forgetting ash would be extremely scummy, but he didn't really need to tell us, so since he might realize it was scummy to remember the NK but not the lynch, it's less scummy.
I'm willing to lynch hydrad, but from egorK's reaction now, I think he's the best lynch still.
XP's opinion of Hydrad.
So after looking at all of that, I actually don't think they are partners. I think it is more likely that XP is more likely to be partners with yuma here. My main reason is because of the switching of the list D1. If TA were his partner, they would have had 2 PRs assigned to them. This way, yuma and Hydrad would be able to be the neighbors. I don't understand why Hydrad didn't go for neighbor though. And that means yuma killed his neighbor N1, already knowing he was the neighbor.
Ok I'm back to yuma not being scum. Unless he is partners with chairs. Then he would know that chairs is the jk, and he would be fine killing his partner to make it look like they were looking for the JK. I'm actually not sure why chairs isn't dead yet.... He should've gotten JK, so either scum doesn't want to kill him because he didn't get JK and they don't want everyone to see that, or because he is scum, so he can't be the NK.
vote: chairs
PPE: 2
-
I was already suspicious of TA. I did a quick reread (like 5 minutes) and I came to the conclusion that I was right. That doesn't really sound like scum reasoning. My agenda to get chairs lynched was a much different situation than this one.
But you didn't start out with they hydrad-TA points, you started out with points that looked like they were pre-formed during the night. I think town, when they see the hydrad flip, shelves those pre-formed thoughts because of the new information the flip provides and comes back to it if the new information correlates.
Scum already knew hydrad was mafia so there wasn't any need to change the pre-formed read.
And I know the agenda to get chairs lynched was different, it was mylo and in conjunction with ash, but the point remains that often scum will plan who they are going to target for a mislynch the night before and how they are going to do it (going back and finding things that could pass off as scummy) and it looks like this is what you did.
Considering we aren't at mylo, I don't know why I would come out so strong, just to get lynched the next day because I set up a mislynch.
-
Considering we aren't at mylo, I don't know why I would come out so strong, just to get lynched the next day because I set up a mislynch.
That doesn't happen...
-
Considering we aren't at mylo, I don't know why I would come out so strong, just to get lynched the next day because I set up a mislynch.
That doesn't happen...
I'm pretty sure if I drive a mislynch, I will be a big target the next day.
-
Considering we aren't at mylo, I don't know why I would come out so strong, just to get lynched the next day because I set up a mislynch.
That doesn't happen...
I'm pretty sure if I drive a mislynch, I will be a big target the next day.
ok, a potential person who could be lynched the next day (among others). Sure. But not a bona-fide lynch. But that is a risk that mafia has to take to get town to mislynch. It is rare that mafia can sit back and let town completely and totally collapse on themselves. Mafia has to be pro-active to get miss lynches otherwise the lynches will eventually cycle back to themselves.
-
Can you elaborate on teproc, gkrieg?
-
Can you elaborate on teproc, gkrieg?
I have to go to class. I will get to it later. When I did the reread, nothing jumped out at me, but I was just rereading you and XP.
-
TA is a very bad pick for a lynch today. If we decide on a lynch, and its him, i wont be supporting that.
His defence of hydrad feels like nothing but him protectibg hydrad to evade a mislynch, posdibly seeing him as an easy pick.
Im still fine with a XP lynch.
-
TA is a very bad pick for a lynch today. If we decide on a lynch, and its him, i wont be supporting that.
His defence of hydrad feels like nothing but him protectibg hydrad to evade a mislynch, posdibly seeing him as an easy pick.
Im still fine with a XP lynch.
Why XP?
-
Too lazy to repeat the same reasonz i have bern shouting all day yesterday.
To add onto that though, his naked assumptions and votes, followed by his imactivity + less content.
-
]
To add onto that though, his naked assumptions and votes, followed by his imactivity + less content.
No offense, but you haven't been the most talkative person either.
I do do naked votes, because sometimes I don't have the words to justify the votes. Sometimes I do it because I'm sheeping, and the good case has already been made. Regardless, it's not a scum trait for me (I understand you probably haven't read games I'm in, so I don't blame you for this)
I think my being on two town wagons is a good reason to be suspicious of me, because even though you want to let town kill themselves, if you give them too much time, they start looking elsewhere (see College Town mafia). Inactivity is okay if it's just because you want to motivate me to post more (which actually I maybe want to encourage) but it's also not a scum trait for me.
Ash kind of ruined day 1 - I really don't feel like much has happened to give me reads compared to most games (even games where I'm mafia I form more reads!). I should probably do a targeted reread of someone, probably someone who hasn't posted too much (because posting is pro-town, it makes sense to keep high-quality posters alive even if they're slightly scummy)
-
Well, I remember thinking gkrieg was towny at some point, so I'm reluctant to lynch him.
Chairs is a better lynch here, I think. (I will give reasons soon) vote: chairs
Maybe you could give your reasons here first...?
-
FYI: I will be probably effectively v/la starting now for the weekend. - Royals are back in the big enchilada baby!
-
Im not saying inactivity is a scum trait alone, but inactivity + less content is something to note.
Post #685? Ok, i guess. The others? Not so much.
And i dont think posting very much is alignment indicative, let alone inactivity, and i dont think posting is pro town in itself either. Say, you are given the option to lynch high posting person but his posts were mostly scummy, and a lurker who posted about %5 of the game, but has been universally townread. The content it has is the usefull part, not the times posted.
Quality > Content, and i believe we should keep that in mid while lynching too.
-
(tumbleweed)
Vote: XerxesPraelor
-
Can you elaborate on teproc, gkrieg?
Well, that was the worst day 1 I've ever seen. Glad the two players chiefly responsible for it are out of the game (mostly, ash, but I'm also angry at WW for putting him at L-1, that was asking for trouble).
So... yeah, we get to have day 1 all over again except with two less townies, awesome. People can claim, not claim, I have no idea if it's right and I don't care to discuss it to death.
I was going to vote Egork for being completely absent on day 1, but I see now that he had a V/LA too. Did I mention this was the worst day 1 in the history of f.ds ?
I'll go for my second choice, then.
ote: gkrieg
This seems consistent with his not wanting to discuss theory and seems sincere.
vote: gkrieg
why for me?
You were vaguely scummy on day 1 and opening the day by talking about the NK is a typical new scum thing.
I completely disagree with this.
I keep hoping I'm going to be the "wise man" in silver's posts but I'm pretty sure it's WW again. I'm jealous.
@yuma : Well yeah, this is day 1 with 2 less townies, because we wasted day 1 entirely. Some people (Egork and me, maybe others) simply did not get to play day 1 because of V/LA. Did I mention it was the worst day 1 in recorded history ?
I know I skipped a bunch of quotes about Joseph being scum. This is the one that stuck out to me the most. Mainly his bringing up of this point repeatedly seems scummy to me. I feel like he is overexpressing the feelings he would have if he were town.
His tunneling of Joseph and me is scummy as well. 18 of his 50 posts are about Joseph or me. Maybe that isn't that bad. He has a change of heart at the beginning of today that makes him come off townier.
-
Can you elaborate on teproc, gkrieg?
Also why did you want this?
-
Can you elaborate on teproc, gkrieg?
Also why did you want this?
why wouldn't he want this?
-
Can you elaborate on teproc, gkrieg?
Also why did you want this?
why wouldn't he want this?
I mean I'm fine giving my opinions on everyone. Just why teproc in particular?
-
So this leaves me with XP, Teproc, and TA. I don't feel like Teproc is scum here, so that leaves the team of TA/XP/Hydrad. I'll reread and see if that team makes sense.
If I had to guess I would guess it was the way you casually removed Teproc from your PoE...
-
So this leaves me with XP, Teproc, and TA. I don't feel like Teproc is scum here, so that leaves the team of TA/XP/Hydrad. I'll reread and see if that team makes sense.
If I had to guess I would guess it was the way you casually removed Teproc from your PoE...
Got it.
-
Hey I'm busy this weekend and all time is going to the game i am modding. Will be back here Monday
-
So this leaves me with XP, Teproc, and TA. I don't feel like Teproc is scum here, so that leaves the team of TA/XP/Hydrad. I'll reread and see if that team makes sense.
If I had to guess I would guess it was the way you casually removed Teproc from your PoE...
Got it.
Makes sense
-
So this leaves me with XP, Teproc, and TA. I don't feel like Teproc is scum here, so that leaves the team of TA/XP/Hydrad. I'll reread and see if that team makes sense.
If I had to guess I would guess it was the way you casually removed Teproc from your PoE...
Got it.
Makes sense
Unlike this being the one thing you decide to comment on after not posting in two days...
-
So no one else agrees with me about gkreig? No one has said they disagree necessarily but the lack of vocal agreement makes it kinda apparent. Either that or no one paid any attention to it...
-
So this leaves me with XP, Teproc, and TA. I don't feel like Teproc is scum here, so that leaves the team of TA/XP/Hydrad. I'll reread and see if that team makes sense.
If I had to guess I would guess it was the way you casually removed Teproc from your PoE...
Got it.
Makes sense
Unlike this being the one thing you decide to comment on after not posting in two days...
Why's that so strange? There's not been much to comment on in the 2-3 days I've been V/LA.
-
So no one else agrees with me about gkreig? No one has said they disagree necessarily but the lack of vocal agreement makes it kinda apparent. Either that or no one paid any attention to it...
I think at the very least, my comments have sparked discussion.
-
So this leaves me with XP, Teproc, and TA. I don't feel like Teproc is scum here, so that leaves the team of TA/XP/Hydrad. I'll reread and see if that team makes sense.
If I had to guess I would guess it was the way you casually removed Teproc from your PoE...
Got it.
Makes sense
Unlike this being the one thing you decide to comment on after not posting in two days...
Why's that so strange? There's not been much to comment on in the 2-3 days I've been V/LA.
I have no problem with your Vla. That is obviously fine. But there have been things to talk about... Plenty of things...
My points on Gkrieg, the points Gkrieg made about teproc that you obviously saw as you said the reason he asked made sense, but what do you think of the points themselves? Who do you even find scummy? Are you voting for someone? Should I vote for that person? Why?
Based off how hydrad interacted with you I am kinda doubtful you are mafia. But completely ignoring the content that has been going on but still being worried about keeping up appearances of being around is scummy. Yes, scummy doesn't always equal mafia, but you have been complaining why people often find you scummy... This is why.
-
So no one else agrees with me about gkreig? No one has said they disagree necessarily but the lack of vocal agreement makes it kinda apparent. Either that or no one paid any attention to it...
I think at the very least, my comments have sparked discussion.
Yay!
-
Comprehensive reread of Hydrad/players still alive on hydrad/ss for NK speculation stuff
See the bottom of each section for the takeaway points:
- Hydrad votes for chairs (RVS both day1 and day2), edmund, joseph. votes on chairs less significant than the other two. #449, #517
- said chairs benefited the most from NKing WW #326 - also this apparently explains why hydrad said he voted chairs...
- had a strong town read on me. #433
- said he got TA/Teproc mixed up #448 - hydrad is one player that I could see forgetting or confusing scum partner with non-scum partner (or even both his scum partners is possible too), but this makes me lean slightly toward not Teproc/TA being partners.
- Teproc slightlier scummy #512
- said blend in was best option. Being honest or WIFOM?
- reads post #526. had SS as townie, EgorK as scummy. Would expect that scum partners would be on townie side/scummy slide split but still close to the middle... so gkrieg, chairs, TA, Xerxes fit that mold. Extreme reads were: yuma, Teproc, edmund, joseph (again less likely to find scum here I think)...
So with some PoE based solely off Hydrad's posts: edmund, joseph, teproc, TA leaving: chairs, XP, gkrieg
Individual reads of players looking for hydrad interaction:
TA:
- slight defense of Hydrad when EgorK called his big list scummy #560
- and again defends in regard to the forgetting ash thing #563
Xerxes:
- pushed for a hydrad lynch due to the "forgetting" ash thing
gkrieg:
- disagreed with someone (can't tell who) on a scummy read on hydrad. thought he played similar to last game #354
- had a post where he referenced pretty much everyone except for hydrad #443
- defended hydrad against EgorK #558
Edmund:
- asks hydrad for reads #525
- asks for an explanation of reads #528
joseph:
- nothing on hydrad
chairs:
- interacted asking how he would benefit most from WW NK #330
Teproc:
- said "nah" to Hydard or about Hydard... context isn't super obvious... I really can't tell #493
Take aways from this:
- This made chairs stand out. The mini-interaction between hydrad chairs about "benefiting most from the NK" just felt off. Plus I feel like scum often feels compelled to vote for partners... if the votes on edmund/joseph aren't partners then the only vote left is on chairs.... Forced and something that I think could have been kinda staged/planned from a QT. So suspicious of chairs here.
- Less scummy on joseph because there was no interaction from joseph's end + the vote on joseph above. Same sort thing with Teproc.
- Gk, TA had light defenses. Could see that being partners, but not necessarily indicative as I felt the same way as they were saying...
- Edmund and XP had light suspicion. Could also see that from partners, but not necessarily indicative.
Silverspawn read's from day1 to day2 for Nightkill stuff (potential babysitter analysis)
Day1:
- votes hydrad #59
- scum read on new guy (edmund?) #223
Day2:
- votes hydrad #302, #318
- town points to gkrieg #314
- votes teproc #316
- votes gkrieg #332
- votes XP #415
- votes Joseph #442
- "doens't make edmund scummy" #481
- defends joseph hard starting #487
- votes Teproc #489
- edmund lynch is bad #518
- votes gkrieg #611
Takeaway:
- can't do much with comparing day1 to day2 just because there is so little from day1. The only change is in regard to the only guy (still alive) that he had a scum read on: edmund.
- But still some stuff useful. If mafia was worried about reads the people feeling safer about killing SS and thus not as worried that he would babysit them while killing him would be: edmund and joseph...
- Those who might be a bit more hesitant about killing him would be: gkrieg and teproc (due to late suspicion). But all of this is assuming that scum even considered that, which I would anticipate that they would but obviously we can't know. I mean, hydrad was scum and SS had a scum read on him so I don't think hydrad would have felt safe with that kill
Main takeaway:
chairs probably comes off scummiest. Edmund, joseph and to a lesser extent Teproc/TA look townier. XP and gkrieg are still good partner potential as well...
I think my vote is going to end up one of XP, gkrieg, chairs and I will keep it on gkrieg right now.
-
Great post Yuma! I think you also have to include that chairs isn't dead yet. If he followed the plan, he should be jk.
-
- said chairs benefited the most from NKing WW #326 - also this apparently explains why hydrad said he voted chairs...
again this is not really what I think town Yuma says. I think town Yuma advocates that this is just a mistake made regardless of alignment. This seems really really weak for you to eliminate me and Teproc from your Hydrad partner pool and I know it goes against what you've said as town in the past.
-
quoted the wrong thing. What I meant to quote is:
- said he got TA/Teproc mixed up #448 - hydrad is one player that I could see forgetting or confusing scum partner with non-scum partner (or even both his scum partners is possible too), but this makes me lean slightly toward not Teproc/TA being partners.
-
For reference...here's what Town yuma has said in the past...
So see things from my perspective for just a few seconds and ask yourself what direction you would go tomorrow.
I thought this was going to be good... I think confusion names arguments are absolutely worthless. Way too easy to fake, way too easy that as scum someone was genuinely confused. So I reject the argument that they are the least likely to be partners...
-
I dunno it reads really contrived. Like that's SUCH a weak reason to remove Teproc/myself from the partner pool. Sure maybe it's a minor minor minor point but to remove us both based solely on that one piece of evidence? It seems so forced
-
For reference...here's what Town yuma has said in the past...
So see things from my perspective for just a few seconds and ask yourself what direction you would go tomorrow.
I thought this was going to be good... I think confusion names arguments are absolutely worthless. Way too easy to fake, way too easy that as scum someone was genuinely confused. So I reject the argument that they are the least likely to be partners...
Man. Dsell. Is he still around the forums. Miss playing with that guy. We never got to be scum together.
Regardless that post was like 2013... + a one year break so I don't know if it is fair to hold me to things I said so long ago...
And I do still think that to an extent, but like I said I don't see hydrad doing that. Faking elaborate tricks isn't really his style. For starters he just doesn't seem like he is around enough or has such a deep commitment to mafia play to try it. Have you ever seen him do something like that? Faust, sure. Ash, sure. TA or Teproc, sure. Hydrad, not really.
Context matters. I know I have said that in the long ago past and I still hold onto it.
-
Great post Yuma! I think you also have to include that chairs isn't dead yet. If he followed the plan, he should be jk.
Well maybe. I mean the other nks have made sense for mafia, it isn't like they were weird or anything. WW looked like JK hunting as if he followed the plan could have been SK. And SS looked like babysitter hunting. So it doesn't boggle my mind that chairs hasn't been NKed yet.
-
For reference...here's what Town yuma has said in the past...
So see things from my perspective for just a few seconds and ask yourself what direction you would go tomorrow.
I thought this was going to be good... I think confusion names arguments are absolutely worthless. Way too easy to fake, way too easy that as scum someone was genuinely confused. So I reject the argument that they are the least likely to be partners...
Man. Dsell. Is he still around the forums. Miss playing with that guy. We never got to be scum together.
Regardless that post was like 2013... + a one year break so I don't know if it is fair to hold me to things I said so long ago...
And I do still think that to an extent, but like I said I don't see hydrad doing that. Faking elaborate tricks isn't really his style. For starters he just doesn't seem like he is around enough or has such a deep commitment to mafia play to try it. Have you ever seen him do something like that? Faust, sure. Ash, sure. TA or Teproc, sure. Hydrad, not really.
Context matters. I know I have said that in the long ago past and I still hold onto it.
I don't think he would do it on purpose but it was possibly a mistake. I just think you are mafia here...you read so insincere
-
So this leaves me with XP, Teproc, and TA. I don't feel like Teproc is scum here, so that leaves the team of TA/XP/Hydrad. I'll reread and see if that team makes sense.
If I had to guess I would guess it was the way you casually removed Teproc from your PoE...
Got it.
Yuma is correct
-
Vote: Yuma...not sure if I already am or not, or if I'm voting Teproc (who is also a fine lynch choice). Looking forward to the vote count when Faust gets back tomorrow
-
I don't think he would do it on purpose but it was possibly a mistake. I just think you are mafia here...you read so insincere
Oh, I concede that it certainly could have been a mistake. I believe I said as much. But I think it would be a harder mistake to make...
And have I actually done anything scummy or is your entire vote on me completely and totally meta based?
Actually it isn't even meta based. It is your perception of my meta, which hasn't really felt accurate at all or even could be accurate given my prolonged absence from the forum. I think you kept expecting 2014!yuma to show up in this game and last game and man... that just ain't going to happen cause this is the new 2015 version. not necessarily new and improved but certainly approaching the game differently...
-
I had a strong town read on you for most of last game.
You can dismiss my read on you as totally meta based but that's just a complete strawman..I am not saying you don't match your meta, I am saying you read insincere and that you aren't making sense. Trying to make it meta based is just trying to diminish my read and possibly make me feel bad about voting you
-
I had a strong town read on you for most of last game.
You can dismiss my read on you as totally meta based but that's just a complete strawman..I am not saying you don't match your meta, I am saying you read insincere and that you aren't making sense. Trying to make it meta based is just trying to diminish my read and possibly make me feel bad about voting you
Not making sense? I didn't get that feel from your posts on me. Mostly I saw "isn't acting like I thought he would."
How am I not making sense?
And I don't want you to feel bad but I do want you to make sure you are voting me for actual reasons mostly because I can respond to those. Abstract reasons such as "isn't acting like I expected" I can't...
-
Scum points to Yuma again. I think town!Yuma points out that while Gkrieg's point of view is wrong and he's embellishing his case, he would point out that both scum and town tend to do this.
Yuma you just haven't been saying any of the things that I'd expect town!Yuma to say this game.
Gkrieg I think you are wrong, but I think you are town.
Like this and the point you made early day2 about how you thought I would respond to the ash lynch...
-
I dont really like the case on yuma. Shit changes, i changed my thoughts and ideas all throughout mafia, that isnt alignment indicative. Besides that, the only evidence is "he doesnt do that" which is basically saying the post isnt scummy itself, but just because they said the opposite in a game that happened 2 years ago.
Yeah not buying that.
-
Vote Count 3.1
gkrieg13 (2): yuma, chairs
chairs (2): XerxesPraelor, gkrieg13
XerxesPraelor (1): Edmund
yuma (1): Twistedarcher
Not Voting (2): Joseph2302, Teproc
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends on October 29, 4 pm foum time.
-
Been absent this week-end, will get to this tonight.
-
I dont really like the case on yuma. Shit changes, i changed my thoughts and ideas all throughout mafia, that isnt alignment indicative. Besides that, the only evidence is "he doesnt do that" which is basically saying the post isnt scummy itself, but just because they said the opposite in a game that happened 2 years ago.
Yeah not buying that.
Well TA is saying that there is more to it than that. If there is then I kinda missed it and want to hear more. But yeah, I agree "different than 2 years ago" isn't good enough, but TA says there is more to it than that, so I am waiting to see what else there is...
-
Hi - I will be posting lots in <5 hours. No need to replace me.
-
Been absent this week-end, will get to this tonight.
Ditto
-
Reread Joseph: other than a few mild scummy remarks (defyingly staying in RVS, for example) his main contribution is regarding yuma and TA. Early on he found yuma scummy for bringing ash to L-1, then said exactly one of yuma and TA was scum (without much argument behind it), and recently decided TA was the scummier one.
-
And what?
-
I had a strong town read on you for most of last game.
You can dismiss my read on you as totally meta based but that's just a complete strawman..I am not saying you don't match your meta, I am saying you read insincere and that you aren't making sense. Trying to make it meta based is just trying to diminish my read and possibly make me feel bad about voting you
I just did a brief re-skim of diffusion of power because I felt like you had similar suspicions of me there as you do here and was surprised you didn't think so.
But I did find a couple of instances where you were surprised at various things I had done that had changed from my play before I left... such as being surprised that I was making meta arguments and... surprised that I was making a pro-active anticipatory defense that you (same as here) described as "strawman."
But you are right that you had a strong town read on me. So now I guess I am trying to figure out what makes this time "me being different" scummy whereas last time "me being different" wasn't. Part of me wants to just automatically assume the difference this time is you with am scum agenda but that seems a bit presumptive and WIFOM.
-
The difference is hard to quantify. You just seem scum here. And I know that's frustrating for you to argue against..but it's also frustrating for me to argue for because that's a really crappy argument to try to get 4 other people to vote for you. You just don't seem genuine and straightforward.
And yes you have changed...obviously that happens over time. But you are as smart and as sensical as you were before, that's obviously not going to change. And I am just surprised you're not reaching conclusions I thought you would reach...and conclusions that you were reaching last game too.
Basically last game everything you said last game made me nod and say "yup he's right", and everything you say this game makes me scratch my head and say "huh?" And this isn't about your reads or conclusions...its not that I disagree with your reads necessarily. It's just that a lot of things you say just seem really different from what I thought you would say...and what you've said before as town...whether it was 2 years ago or last game. So sure maybe that's a "meta" case. But I'd say it's more just a feel I get from you for this game...you "read" so scummy to me. Not logically scummy (not saying that you aren't, just that it's not the case I'm moving)...just feel scummy and I keep getting the same feeling over and over and over.
-
The difference is hard to quantify. You just seem scum here. And I know that's frustrating for you to argue against..but it's also frustrating for me to argue for because that's a really crappy argument to try to get 4 other people to vote for you. You just don't seem genuine and straightforward.
Sure. I have had moments like that in my history of playing mafia so I can sympathize. I mean just look at awaclus last game. He felt super scummy and it was a feeling at the start.
But my however moment is this:
As the game went on I was able to find specific things that he did that didn't just feel scummy alone. They were scummy. They had a scummy narrative, if you want to use that wording. They benefited Awaclus as mafia; distancing himself from mislynches, casting blame on people who were part of mislynches but not on himself, distracting from everything, etc...
Whereas the things you have said that looked off from me. Do those have scummy narratives or scum benefits? I don't think they do. For example I would argue that:
- If I am mafia removing you/Teproc from a lynch pool isn't beneficial unless I am partners with you.
- If I am mafia not making a big fuss about the ash lynch doesn't cause a ruckus and distract from the object at hand.
I can't argue against how you feel. But I hope I can show you that how you feel doesn't match up with how I actually am playing, which I hope is a good town game.
-
Sorry It's been a while since I posted. I'm still big on the chairs lynch just because he hasn't died. I don't think you go for the babysitter before the JK.
-
Ok did a quick reread. He defends Hydrad as not being scummy in his last 2 or 3 posts. I'm pretty sure that is more likely to come from scum!TA than town!TA. I'm definitely leaving my vote where it is.
Don't like this. Too defensive. Town under pressure from yuma could do this, but still, scummy overall.
The rest of gkrieg today is townie though. I mostly disagree with him, but it really looks like town trying to figure things out... it also looks like he's trying to please the crowd a bit, which is obviously scummy on the face of it, but town does that all the time too.
vote: XP. It feels like XP is talking about himself and his meta a lot. Looking at his whole history, it's a lot of theory talk and short posts. I think town!XP elaborates more than this actually.
I think hydrad only forgetting ash would be extremely scummy, but he didn't really need to tell us, so since he might realize it was scummy to remember the NK but not the lynch, it's less scummy.
I'm willing to lynch hydrad, but from egorK's reaction now, I think he's the best lynch still.
Well, this is great. "I'll totally lynch my scum partner, but you know, why not lynch this townie instead ?"
-
Sorry It's been a while since I posted. I'm still big on the chairs lynch just because he hasn't died. I don't think you go for the babysitter before the JK.
Let's go through this mostly because I think it is an interesting discussion, but also because if you are basing your vote (even partially) on it then I think it is worth actually looking at to make sure you are right...
So for starters I will say that I do think that JK is the overall better role for town. It is one of the most powerful roles in the game in that it is protective, blocking and is semi-investigative.
Babysitter is also powerful, but riskier for town. It is protective but can also be used semi-vengefully or as a vigilante. High risk, high reward. Optimal play sometimes for babysitter is going to be to not use it... But mafia never knows if a player is going to be using it or not... kinda like a vig.
Now mafia appeared to try to target the JK first night1... going for WW over SS.
(Side note: this actually already mutes your point right there gkrieg! If chairs is mafia and he took "blend in" and got JK, or even went for it but lost out... then why would he go after WW Night1? Mafia would know there isn't a JK to fear as chairs would be it so the next target on the list would be the babysitter. But SS wasn't targeted the first night, WW was meaning that mafia likely thought it was possible that WW was in fact the JK meaning that chairs isn't both the JK and mafia)
But on Night2 mafia appears to have switched the approach and went for the Babysitter kill instead.
One of the reasons JK is good is that the longer it is in the game the better it becomes. This is true of all roles, but especially JK. Because as the pool of players shrinks (as long as the number of mafia stay consistent) the JK increasingly has a better chance of JKing either the killer or the player "to be killed." When it is 13 players 1/6 isn't great odds. But when it is 7 players 1/3 is significantly better. So it gets better with time and thus becomes more powerful later in the game. And the ultimate at worst outcome (for mafia) is a blocked kill and a 1/2 investigation on them. Best outcome for mafia is that the JK doesn't block the kill.
So to with Babysitter... As the pool of players gets smaller (again if mafia numbers stay the same) the babysitter has a better chance of either protecting a town player from being killed OR killing a scum player. And less of a chance of killing a town player as the game goes on. So the at worst (for mafia) outcome is having a mafia player get killed, as we just saw. Best outcome for mafia is that a town player gets killed along with the babysitter.
So I actually think that mafia wants to kill the babysitter earlier than the JK. The earlier the babysitter dies the less likely the babysitter is to babysit mafia and the more likely they will be babysitting town + the less likely the babysitter will block a kill. Whereas with JK the earlier the JK dies the less likely the JK will block a kill and doesn't get a semi-result.
Maybe others will disagree, but at the very least I see them being sixes. I don't think the idea that mafia shot the Babysitter last night is necessarily indicative of chair's alignment, especially in light of mafia appearing to try and shoot the JK Night1. That doesn't mean that chairs isn't mafia, but I don't think you can hold it against him given the current setup.
-
Babysitter is much better of a role itself than JK, imo, but it definetely is a much worse NK for scum while there is JK. I wouldnt expect scum to try to kill babysitter at all, especially with hydrad being a possible vigilante target.
-
Well I disagree as outlined above.
But the main point isn't about which is the better role, the main point is that there isn't an obviously better choice to make and thus shouldn't be the basis for a scum read on someone for still being alive at this point...
-
Since I've already admitted to not paying attention to the plan, I feel like there's an argument that trying to lynch me based on "he's an alive JK" is pretty scummy since I ALREADY ADMITTED I DIDN'T REALIZE I WAS SUPPOSED TO PICK JAILKEEPER.
-
/tag
-
Well I disagree as outlined above.
But the main point isn't about which is the better role, the main point is that there isn't an obviously better choice to make and thus shouldn't be the basis for a scum read on someone for still being alive at this point...
I dont know man, yes it wasnt something that required %100 lynch but i can see why he became suspicious of that. Because y'know, WIFOM.
-
Since I've already admitted to not paying attention to the plan, I feel like there's an argument that trying to lynch me based on "he's an alive JK" is pretty scummy since I ALREADY ADMITTED I DIDN'T REALIZE I WAS SUPPOSED TO PICK JAILKEEPER.
fine, unvote
-
Since I've already admitted to not paying attention to the plan, I feel like there's an argument that trying to lynch me based on "he's an alive JK" is pretty scummy since I ALREADY ADMITTED I DIDN'T REALIZE I WAS SUPPOSED TO PICK JAILKEEPER.
fine, unvote
So your entire motivation for voting chairs actually was the JK thing?
-
Since I've already admitted to not paying attention to the plan, I feel like there's an argument that trying to lynch me based on "he's an alive JK" is pretty scummy since I ALREADY ADMITTED I DIDN'T REALIZE I WAS SUPPOSED TO PICK JAILKEEPER.
fine, unvote
So your entire motivation for voting chairs actually was the JK thing?
Well that was a lot of it. That line of thinking comes from last game where we should have lynched the masons because they didn't die.
-
Ok did a quick reread. He defends Hydrad as not being scummy in his last 2 or 3 posts. I'm pretty sure that is more likely to come from scum!TA than town!TA. I'm definitely leaving my vote where it is.
Don't like this. Too defensive. Town under pressure from yuma could do this, but still, scummy overall.
The rest of gkrieg today is townie though. I mostly disagree with him, but it really looks like town trying to figure things out... it also looks like he's trying to please the crowd a bit, which is obviously scummy on the face of it, but town does that all the time too.
vote: XP. It feels like XP is talking about himself and his meta a lot. Looking at his whole history, it's a lot of theory talk and short posts. I think town!XP elaborates more than this actually.
I think hydrad only forgetting ash would be extremely scummy, but he didn't really need to tell us, so since he might realize it was scummy to remember the NK but not the lynch, it's less scummy.
I'm willing to lynch hydrad, but from egorK's reaction now, I think he's the best lynch still.
Well, this is great. "I'll totally lynch my scum partner, but you know, why not lynch this townie instead ?"
I agree with these opinions on XP and Gkrieg
Vote: XP[/vote]
-
Uh I don't know what I was trying to do with the formatting there.
Vote: XP
-
Since I've already admitted to not paying attention to the plan, I feel like there's an argument that trying to lynch me based on "he's an alive JK" is pretty scummy since I ALREADY ADMITTED I DIDN'T REALIZE I WAS SUPPOSED TO PICK JAILKEEPER.
fine, unvote
So your entire motivation for voting chairs actually was the JK thing?
Well that was a lot of it. That line of thinking comes from last game where we should have lynched the masons because they didn't die.
Well I disagree with that line of thinking... especially because there were always better NK choices (Faust, Hydrad PR hunting, TA was the roleblocker) up until there was the end of game hammer because killing one of you would have made the other an IC (if you were actually masons). Plus masons can't actually do anything, they have no power.
But if you two had continued to live even beyond that and instead VTs were dying then sure...
And that is the same case here. A potential JK isn't scummy for still being alive right now. Because the two other NKs have also gone after "known" PRs.
But right now I think chairs would be my number two lynch choice, but not because of any PR killing speculation, but because of his interactions with Hydrad. Although Teproc brought out a point about Xerxes that I hadn't quite put together that maybe puts chairs lower on the list.
-
Vote: XP[/vote]
Ha! We need to petition theory to have a vote formatting button that just automatically puts the name you type into a vote format!
Why haven't we thought of this before?
-
So this leaves me with XP, Teproc, and TA. I don't feel like Teproc is scum here, so that leaves the team of TA/XP/Hydrad. I'll reread and see if that team makes sense.
If I had to guess I would guess it was the way you casually removed Teproc from your PoE...
Got it.
Makes sense
Unlike this being the one thing you decide to comment on after not posting in two days...
Why's that so strange? There's not been much to comment on in the 2-3 days I've been V/LA.
I have no problem with your Vla. That is obviously fine. But there have been things to talk about... Plenty of things...
My points on Gkrieg, the points Gkrieg made about teproc that you obviously saw as you said the reason he asked made sense, but what do you think of the points themselves? Who do you even find scummy? Are you voting for someone? Should I vote for that person? Why?
Based off how hydrad interacted with you I am kinda doubtful you are mafia. But completely ignoring the content that has been going on but still being worried about keeping up appearances of being around is scummy. Yes, scummy doesn't always equal mafia, but you have been complaining why people often find you scummy... This is why.
I've been seriously busy, but I do get this reasoning. Postings now
-
Is there support for Edmund, I'd be absolutely willing to lynch him.
Vote: Edmund
only one way to find out!
Vote: Edmund
Vote: Joeseph
Picture above : Hydrad wagoning Edmund (second vote, close to deadline) and Joseph (third vote).
0 = scum 10 = town 5 = null
1. gkrieg - 5.1
2. Witherweaver - 10
3. ashersky - 5.4
4. chairs - 5
5. yuma - 6.8
6. Hydrad - 11
7. EgorK - 4.3
8. XerxesPraelor - 5
9. Joseph2302 - 3.4
10. silverspawn - 6.1
11. Edmund - 3.9
12. Teproc- 3.6
13. Twistedarcher - 4.9
Not sure what to think yet. Joseph gets townier.
Interesting. The Hydrad wagoning near deadline doesn't seem that scummy to me, as lynch > no lynch almost always.
-
Scum points to Yuma again. I think town!Yuma points out that while Gkrieg's point of view is wrong and he's embellishing his case, he would point out that both scum and town tend to do this.
Yuma you just haven't been saying any of the things that I'd expect town!Yuma to say this game.
Gkrieg I think you are wrong, but I think you are town.
Interesting, kind of makes me think TA/yuma is town/scum again. Although I think Gkrieg's post were okay.
-
IGNORE THAT, I'm certain Hydrad is actually scum!!
-
I'm gonna do a little POE. At least it will spark some conversation. I feel like this died a little bit.
1. gkrieg Obviously
4. chairs I have my reasons
5. yuma For the neighbor thing
8. XerxesPraelor
9. Joseph2302 - for the voting thing
11. Edmund - for the voting thing
12. Teproc
13. Twistedarcher
So this leaves me with XP, Teproc, and TA. I don't feel like Teproc is scum here, so that leaves the team of TA/XP/Hydrad. I'll reread and see if that team makes sense.
You make this game sound so easy.... Also, what does "I have my reasons" mean for chairs? (scumteam together?)
-
TA is a very bad pick for a lynch today. If we decide on a lynch, and its him, i wont be supporting that.
His defence of hydrad feels like nothing but him protectibg hydrad to evade a mislynch, posdibly seeing him as an easy pick.
Im still fine with a XP lynch.
Why is TA lynch so bad? Also, not agreeing with the logic for Edmund wanting XP lynch.
-
I'm gonna do a little POE. At least it will spark some conversation. I feel like this died a little bit.
1. gkrieg Obviously
4. chairs I have my reasons
5. yuma For the neighbor thing
8. XerxesPraelor
9. Joseph2302 - for the voting thing
11. Edmund - for the voting thing
12. Teproc
13. Twistedarcher
So this leaves me with XP, Teproc, and TA. I don't feel like Teproc is scum here, so that leaves the team of TA/XP/Hydrad. I'll reread and see if that team makes sense.
You make this game sound so easy.... Also, what does "I have my reasons" mean for chairs? (scumteam together?)
I gave my reasons. It's because I thought he was JK. I didn't want to point this out if scum hadn't realized it yet but it turned out to not be true.
I think XP has more negative Hydrad interaction than anyone else.
so vote: XP
-
I mean
vote: XP
THIS IS L-1 I believe
-
Finally, chairs JK thing- I'm willing to believe he just didn't follow the plan. After all, it seems like a lot of us didn't. As the JK thing is the main scum thing about him it seems, I don't buy into that lynch.
I'm gonna do a little POE. At least it will spark some conversation. I feel like this died a little bit.
1. gkrieg Obviously
4. chairs I have my reasons
5. yuma For the neighbor thing
8. XerxesPraelor
9. Joseph2302 - for the voting thing
11. Edmund - for the voting thing
12. Teproc
13. Twistedarcher
So this leaves me with XP, Teproc, and TA. I don't feel like Teproc is scum here, so that leaves the team of TA/XP/Hydrad. I'll reread and see if that team makes sense.
You make this game sound so easy.... Also, what does "I have my reasons" mean for chairs? (scumteam together?)
I gave my reasons. It's because I thought he was JK. I didn't want to point this out if scum hadn't realized it yet but it turned out to not be true.
I think XP has more negative Hydrad interaction than anyone else.
so vote: XP
Fair enough, that could be true.
PPE: 1
-
Request: Vote Count
Also, not currently seeing the XP lynch.
-
Why are we organizing a huge rolefishing discussion here ? Everyone should stop talking about who has which PR right now. All this is doing is giving scum free info.
-
Why are we organizing a huge rolefishing discussion here ? Everyone should stop talking about who has which PR right now. All this is doing is giving scum free info.
agreed. Sorry I brought anything up.
-
Why are we organizing a huge rolefishing discussion here ? Everyone should stop talking about who has which PR right now. All this is doing is giving scum free info.
because sometimes you have to talk about it when it becomes a focal point of whether or not someone is going to be lynched...
But sure, now that we have moved past that, we can stop. But no one has really talked about it since we moved past it anyways...
PPE: 1
-
Why are we organizing a huge rolefishing discussion here ? Everyone should stop talking about who has which PR right now. All this is doing is giving scum free info.
because sometimes you have to talk about it when it becomes a focal point of whether or not someone is going to be lynched...
But sure, now that we have moved past that, we can stop. But no one has really talked about it since we moved past it anyways...
PPE: 1
Sorry, I'm catching up so I guess I'm late to the party there.
-
TA's read on yuma... well I sure disagree with it.
-
TA : so you agree with me on XP, but do you think he's more likely to be scum than yuma ?
-
Request: Vote Count
Also, not currently seeing the XP lynch.
Why ?
-
intent to hammer.
Waiting on vote count and hopefully opportunity for XP to claim/etc.
-
Request: Vote Count
Also, not currently seeing the XP lynch.
Why ?
Because I'm not sure on Gkrieg, and he's the one pushing it to L-1.
-
Players:
1. gkrieg- getting a scummy vibe
2. Witherweaver (dead)
3. ashersky (dead)
4. chairs- more active than usual, seems null/slightly town
5. yuma The content and discussion he's contributing seems pro-town to me
6. Hydrad (dead)
7. EgorK
8. XerxesPraelor- maybe, but I'm not convinced
9. Joseph2302 (me)
10. silverspawn- hasn't posted for 7 days (don't think he's V/LA)
11. Edmund- null
12. Teproc- Getting a town vibe
13. Twistedarcher- I think scummy, especially as I think 1 of TA and yuma is scum, and yuma seems much towwnier
[/quote]
Vote: TA
-
FWIW, I think it's a Hydrad/TA/Gkreig scumteam.
-
TA : so you agree with me on XP, but do you think he's more likely to be scum than yuma ?
Probably a little less, but no one else has shown interest in lynching Yuma, and deadline's tomorrow. XP is not a bad choice.
-
Players:
1. gkrieg- getting a scummy vibe
2. Witherweaver (dead)
3. ashersky (dead)
4. chairs- more active than usual, seems null/slightly town
5. yuma The content and discussion he's contributing seems pro-town to me
6. Hydrad (dead)
7. EgorK
8. XerxesPraelor- maybe, but I'm not convinced
9. Joseph2302 (me)
10. silverspawn- hasn't posted for 7 days (don't think he's V/LA)
11. Edmund- null
12. Teproc- Getting a town vibe
13. Twistedarcher- I think scummy, especially as I think 1 of TA and yuma is scum, and yuma seems much towwnier
Vote: TA
[/quote]
Can you elaborate on Gkrieg/Teproc?
-
Vote: XP
-
whew, avoided the vote from Yuma there..!
-
Request: Vote Count
Also, not currently seeing the XP lynch.
Why ?
Because I'm not sure on Gkrieg, and he's the one pushing it to L-1.
This is generally a bad reason to be wary of a good wagon (cognitive bias and whatnot)... but I can't help feel the same way about it, especially with chairs saying intent to hammer.
-
10. silverspawn- hasn't posted for 7 days (don't think he's V/LA)
Cause he is dead. Did you kill him?
-
whew, avoided the vote from Yuma there..!
oh man! It was close...
-
TA is a very bad pick for a lynch today. If we decide on a lynch, and its him, i wont be supporting that.
His defence of hydrad feels like nothing but him protectibg hydrad to evade a mislynch, posdibly seeing him as an easy pick.
Im still fine with a XP lynch.
Why is TA lynch so bad? Also, not agreeing with the logic for Edmund wanting XP lynch.
His tone feels town. The agenda he has and his consistency on straight forward reading people strikes me as a slight town.
-
Vote Count 3.2
gkrieg13 (2): yuma, chairs
chairs (1): XerxesPraelor
XerxesPraelor (4): Edmund, Teproc, Twistedarcher, gkrieg13
Twistedarcher (1): Joseph2302
Not Voting (0)
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends on October 29, 4 pm foum time.
-
Vote Count 3.2
gkrieg13 (2): yuma, chairs
chairs (1): XerxesPraelor
XerxesPraelor (3): Edmund, Twistedarcher, gkrieg13
Twistedarcher (1): Joseph2302
Not Voting (1): Teproc
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends on October 29, 4 pm foum time.
Teproc voted XP in #731, so XP should be at L-1
-
Vote Count 3.2
gkrieg13 (2): yuma, chairs
chairs (1): XerxesPraelor
XerxesPraelor (3): Edmund, Twistedarcher, gkrieg13
Twistedarcher (1): Joseph2302
Not Voting (1): Teproc
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends on October 29, 4 pm foum time.
Teproc voted XP in #731, so XP should be at L-1
Fixed.
-
Reread Edmund: he comes up with a plan, then says people are talking too much about plans, then tunnels me for the rest of the game. (he adds "but we should lynch XP" to the end of most of his posts)
Scummy in inconsistency, and jumping on yuma, and tunneling me. You've been here for one game - you seriously can't be sure.
-
Reread Edmund: he comes up with a plan, then says people are talking too much about plans, then tunnels me for the rest of the game. (he adds "but we should lynch XP" to the end of most of his posts)
Scummy in inconsistency, and jumping on yuma, and tunneling me. You've been here for one game - you seriously can't be sure.
this is nice, but you are at L-1 might want to focus on yourself before focusing on others here for a bit...
Any response to your wagon? Thoughts on people voting for you?
-
Plan? What plan? If you are talking about the pr choosing plans, i never made one, because i didnt liked plans back then.
-
Teproc: serious immediately (this is null), makes lots of sense theory-wise, works against the ash lynch (which I think scum would be unlikely to do because you can't get too much towncred this way because he is a good lynch or bad lynch more independently of alignment than normal), contributes a ton of quality posts. If I don't have any opinions after this, I'll steal his. Oops, he's voting me, I'll just take the one backwards one.
Very towny - I was expecting to see more scumminess, but didn't. Okay, that's not good.
PPE: Oh, yeah that's important. Um, Teproc is sort of right that normal town!me would have contributed more than I have, but he doesn't quite have the context (I really should have posted LA even though it's not technically that). I don't blame him for that. However, I think he's been around me enough to know that short posts is how I post. I doubt I've had a single post as long as your #732. (except I gathered quotes once, but that doesn't count) I don't think I've been meta or theory-oriented, so I don't get that part. (although theory was what dominated D1, and I think that my stance is correct clearly enough that I should get town points for pushing it) Edmund thinks my posts have a low content ratio (for example, what I just posted may have been short, but framing something complicating in a simple way often helps find the signal from all the noise), and I just have to disagree there (and also, you aren't exactly doing large cases either).
PPE: Never mind, looked back and it was just a broken quote. Also this last post seems very much a facade to me. (in the sense that it's someone describing what they had decided to "like")
-
Gkrieg voting for my hydra interactions is just weird. Would any of you give your partner just a pure 5.0? It's common knowledge on f.ds that no interaction is suspicious (and this should be this way) and so a Hydrad/XP scum team would definitely have interacted more. See all my past scum games. Ignoring my partner is just not how I work.
PS: It feels weird that having been accused of talking about myself too much, I now have to talk about myself some more. I'd prefer to just continue going through people and contributing to scum hunting in general, but I guess it's more important to steer the lynch away from known town than it is to make it more likely to hit scum out of the alternatives.
-
Hey xerxes, you are at l1 in case you havent noticed.
Bother to claim or what?
-
Hey xerxes, you are at l1 in case you havent noticed.
I did notice.
-
vote: edmund
-
10. silverspawn- hasn't posted for 7 days (don't think he's V/LA)
Cause he is dead. Did you kill him?
That would explain his inactivity, and no, I didn't kill him.
-
Hey xerxes, you are at l1 in case you havent noticed.
I did notice.
But no response?
-
well that was lacking...
-
well that was lacking...
You mean my response? I'm sorry to hear that, but what I said is basically all of what I think wrt the votes.
-
unvote
I'm going to need to look at some XP scum games.
-
Vote Count 3.3
gkrieg13 (2): yuma, chairs
XerxesPraelor (3): Edmund, Twistedarcher, gkrieg13
Twistedarcher (1): Joseph2302
Edmund (1): XerxesPraelor
Not Voting (1): Teproc
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends on October 29, 4 pm foum time.
-
unvote
I'm going to need to look at some XP scum games.
I definitely don't want to see a lynch right now, I think there's information to be gained on XP's refusal to claim (or do anything).
-
unvote
I'm going to need to look at some XP scum games.
I agree, but I don't think the onus should be on us to sift through all of his games looking for what XP is describing (which is a pretty vague description to begin with).
XP can you provide some concrete examples for us? You are obviously more familiar with your games than we are...
-
unvote
I'm going to need to look at some XP scum games.
I agree, but I don't think the onus should be on us to sift through all of his games looking for what XP is describing (which is a pretty vague description to begin with).
XP can you provide some concrete examples for us? You are obviously more familiar with your games than we are...
Well, my preferred way of doing meta analysis is not to ask someone to do itfor themselves. Specifically I'm intrigued by XP claiming that he always takes care to interact with his partners. I'll get to it tomorrow, hence the unvote to make sure I have the time to do so.
-
unvote
I'm going to need to look at some XP scum games.
I agree, but I don't think the onus should be on us to sift through all of his games looking for what XP is describing (which is a pretty vague description to begin with).
XP can you provide some concrete examples for us? You are obviously more familiar with your games than we are...
Well, my preferred way of doing meta analysis is not to ask someone to do itfor themselves. Specifically I'm intrigued by XP claiming that he always takes care to interact with his partners. I'll get to it tomorrow, hence the unvote to make sure I have the time to do so.
That is fair. And if you have the time to do that, go for it. I personally don't (at least not within the time frames of the upcoming deadline) have time to check every game to see 1. if XP is in it 2. see if XP is mafia in it 3. check to see if he interacted with his partners (which basically means rereading the whole game...) and I am willing to sacrifice the bias that he might give in providing his own examples for the convenience of not needing to do the above.
And the fact of the matter is that if he can provide concrete examples of what he describes then we can go back and check them for factuality and context and if he can't.... well then he can't and he doesn't have this meta defense...
-
Yes I'll do this.
-
Going backwards from http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11881.0 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11881.0):
Dresden Files: I was scum with ADK:
Death Note: I was scum with e, eevee, egork:
Star Wars: I was scum with Teproc: I was lynched day 1 and have 15 posts total; only interaction with teproc is
Philosopher's Mafia: this is, I think my first scum game, and normally people tend to be too scared to interact with their partners then.
(this was the intent)
Now the more recent ones: (by the way that thread is great)
College Town: (this is the one where faust and I won the game based on our interactions) Faust, ADK/gkrieg were my partners
Day 4 probably doesn't count because we were at LYLO so I was forced to, but I of course did numerous rereads of faust and had interactions/debates with him.
-
Going backwards from http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11881.0 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11881.0):
Dresden Files: I was scum with ADK:
Death Note: I was scum with e, eevee, egork:
Star Wars: I was scum with Teproc: I was lynched day 1 and have 15 posts total; only interaction with teproc is
Philosopher's Mafia: this is, I think my first scum game, and normally people tend to be too scared to interact with their partners then.
(this was the intent)
Now the more recent ones: (by the way that thread is great)
College Town: (this is the one where faust and I won the game based on our interactions) Faust, ADK/gkrieg were my partners
Day 4 probably doesn't count because we were at LYLO so I was forced to, but I of course did numerous rereads of faust and had interactions/debates with him.
The plan for College Town was to bus at the beginning. So I think those posts count a little less.
-
Going backwards from http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11881.0 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11881.0):
Dresden Files: I was scum with ADK:
Death Note: I was scum with e, eevee, egork:
Star Wars: I was scum with Teproc: I was lynched day 1 and have 15 posts total; only interaction with teproc is
Philosopher's Mafia: this is, I think my first scum game, and normally people tend to be too scared to interact with their partners then.
(this was the intent)
Now the more recent ones: (by the way that thread is great)
College Town: (this is the one where faust and I won the game based on our interactions) Faust, ADK/gkrieg were my partners
Day 4 probably doesn't count because we were at LYLO so I was forced to, but I of course did numerous rereads of faust and had interactions/debates with him.
The plan for College Town was to bus at the beginning. So I think those posts count a little less.
There wasn't a plan as definite as you make it sound: http://quicktopic.com/51/H/TaJrHVg8GsD.
-
unvote
I'm going to need to look at some XP scum games.
I definitely don't want to see a lynch right now, I think there's information to be gained on XP's refusal to claim (or do anything).
I don't see an intent to hammer, and I think (perhaps optimistically) that my lynch is definitely not inevitable. I will claim once it's clear it is if I need to. I'm also not exactly sure what the point of a claim is here - we can't verify roles, so the thing that happened when I was doctor (the setup saved me from my scumminess) can't happen here, so I don't really see the point. I could claim targets, I guess, but if I'm going to be lynched, I doubt my claim will change that, even a jailkeeper one.
-
Chairs posted intent to hammer. Teproc's unvote took you from L-1. I still think it is good for you to claim. With regards to college town, you guys were the ones leading the case on me, so I'm pretty sure the plan was pretty concrete when I was put in as new scum. It was also the last post of the night, which has a little more weight, especially coming from Faust.
-
Chairs posted intent to hammer. Teproc's unvote took you from L-1. I still think it is good for you to claim. With regards to college town, you guys were the ones leading the case on me, so I'm pretty sure the plan was pretty concrete when I was put in as new scum. It was also the last post of the night, which has a little more weight, especially coming from Faust.
That should read I think it is good for you to claim at L-1 with intent to hammer.
-
I urge other people to look at Edmund's behavior, which I think has been pretty scummy even for a newbie.
-
unvote
I'm going to need to look at some XP scum games.
I definitely don't want to see a lynch right now, I think there's information to be gained on XP's refusal to claim (or do anything).
I don't see an intent to hammer, and I think (perhaps optimistically) that my lynch is definitely not inevitable. I will claim once it's clear it is if I need to. I'm also not exactly sure what the point of a claim is here - we can't verify roles, so the thing that happened when I was doctor (the setup saved me from my scumminess) can't happen here, so I don't really see the point. I could claim targets, I guess, but if I'm going to be lynched, I doubt my claim will change that, even a jailkeeper one.
chairs intended to hammer you. Pay attention.
Interesting how you only gave scum game examples. Have you ever been town?
And nice OMGUS. Claim already, 1 day until day ends and your tunneling is pretty obvious by this point.
-
Interesting how you only gave scum game examples. Have you ever been town?
unvote
I'm going to need to look at some XP scum games.
I agree, but I don't think the onus should be on us to sift through all of his games looking for what XP is describing (which is a pretty vague description to begin with).
XP can you provide some concrete examples for us? You are obviously more familiar with your games than we are...
-
"Pay attention" he says, while wondering why I only gave examples of scum games.
-
Looking at XP's meta links:
One point to consider first...
If XP is mafia we don't know who the third mafia is. There could conceivably be other interactions that he prioritized with that scum buddy over Hydrad, who would be difficult to interact with given low post volume and XP's low post volume. Any opportunities to interact were scant on day1 so we are relying completely on the idea that XP as scum would have forced himself, a low poster to interact, with Hydrad, also a low poster, all in the space of one day.
One of the difficulties we have had in analyzing Hydrad already is that pretty much everyone had zero to minimal interactions with him.
That said, let's see what XP offers up...
- Dresden files: I don't see anything that really jumped out. The interactions weren't even really with ADK (who was a medium content poster if I remember correctly) but with others talking about ADK
- Death Note: there is more here than Dresden files. And there is some interaction with the lurker of the group (EgorK)
- Star Wars: I was in this game? I have zero memory of it. But yeah, not a lot there because it is just day1 and seemed kinda short. Similar to this game's day1, except with a scum lynch instead
- Philosophers's I will throughout due to it being a newbie scum game
- College Town: there is definitely more interaction, but again with people that tend to most more
So I get what Xerxes is saying and I think I agree with his meta analysis in principle (especially Death Note and College Town), but somewhat question its utility this game where Day1 was such a mess and the known scum partner is Hydrad and XP himself has been semi-VLA. I could see this being a game where XP is frustrated with the oddities of this specific game in that he wasn't able to interact with a partner more and that his partner didn't interact with him more in turn and is using this meta defense as a shield. Unfortunately that is just pure speculation.
-
I urge other people to look at Edmund's behavior, which I think has been pretty scummy even for a newbie.
I am still reading him pretty townie... assertive, probing, questioning. Again, those are all attributes that I would put more on newbie town than newbie scum.
Plus the interaction with Hydrad puts him on the townie side.
-
"Pay attention" he says, while wondering why I only gave examples of scum games.
It would be hard for you to give examples of interactions with your scum partners when you were town...
-
I'd be fine lynching Edmund
Did something change after he voted XP?
Half interaction with edmund - what's easiest to fake.
-
vote: chairs
NK analysis is useful, and town does it at least as much as scum.
pretty much this. actually for me I think I do it more as town? although I guess I'm also town more often then I am scum...
Are you going to expand on those or...?
Hmmm. I can try but most of it is just gut feeling right now. Like ya I can probably explain how I come to most of these? buuut my train of thinking I feel like most people don't agree with and doesn't ever swing their votes either. so half the time I just say how scummy I think people are since thats just easier and pretty much gets the same point across.
-
I really don't want to just be the default lynch here - can people actually go look at gkrieg and edmund, because I think they've actually acted pretty scummy.
I urge other people to look at Edmund's behavior, which I think has been pretty scummy even for a newbie.
I am still reading him pretty townie... assertive, probing, questioning. Again, those are all attributes that I would put more on newbie town than newbie scum.
Plus the interaction with Hydrad puts him on the townie side.
I view scum!edmund as understanding his role in misleading town, while a town player might start out more unsure because there's no obvious decisions or goals, so the "probing, questioning" is I think a scum trait, not a town one. And his hydrad interaction isn't really helping - it's not like hydrad tried a lot to get him lynched or anything, which would give him town points - he seem to mainly just say "scummy due to gut feeling" which could easily be a way to evenly distribute his reads.
-
Oh, i missed the part where he wanted to look at your scum games.
But can you give a few other town links?
Nice tunneling. Its just making you look much more scummy by saying ''guys look at this guys they are scummier''. They can look at us after you are lynched, but that doesnt seems to be what you want, it seems like you just want to get the attention off of yourself.
-
I'd be fine lynching Edmund
Did something change after he voted XP?
Half interaction with edmund - what's easiest to fake.
You are missing this though:
Vote: Joseph
somehow I just realized you were in the game.
hey, just because I'm voting for weak reasons doesn't mean you are allowed to do that too.
vore: hydrad
but why not?
Also has Joseph ever been scum? I can't remember right now.
Could be faked I suppose, but I'm still counting that in the "Town" column for Joseph.
Is there support for Edmund, I'd be absolutely willing to lynch him.
Vote: Edmund
only one way to find out!
Vote: Edmund
Vote: Joeseph
Picture above : Hydrad wagoning Edmund (second vote, close to deadline) and Joseph (third vote).
0 = scum 10 = town 5 = null
1. gkrieg - 5.1
2. Witherweaver - 10
3. ashersky - 5.4
4. chairs - 5
5. yuma - 6.8
6. Hydrad - 11
7. EgorK - 4.3
8. XerxesPraelor - 5
9. Joseph2302 - 3.4
10. silverspawn - 6.1
11. Edmund - 3.9
12. Teproc- 3.6
13. Twistedarcher - 4.9
Not sure what to think yet. Joseph gets townier.
He also apparently confuses TA for me at some point, for whatever that's worth. No interaction with XP whatsoever and a completely null read makes XP scummier.
which I think is more powerful.
-
I really don't want to just be the default lynch here - can people actually go look at gkrieg and edmund, because I think they've actually acted pretty scummy.
And I am currently voting for gkrieg... I think he has both scummy interactions AND has played a scummier game. Everyone else seems to really only have one or the other...
-
Also I am not getting my usual e-mail alerts of new messages. Anyone else use that feature? It is nice to use at work cause then I can casually follow along without constantly having the browser open to f.DS
-
They can look at us after you are lynched, but that doesnt seems to be what you want, it seems like you just want to get the attention off of yourself.
You are correct - I would rather have them look at you before I'm lynched, and I do want the attention off myself, because lynching me is not good for town, so if I can avoid it by convincing everyone to lynch actual scum, that would be great.
What would I want town to look at you only after I'm lynched?
But can you give a few other town links?
I'm not going to waste my time pandering to scum, especially since you haven't given any reasons why you need to see town games of mine. But since you asked, here are a few games: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12462.0;all
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12052.0
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11779.0;all
Notice I'm mislynched as town quite a bit.
Nice tunneling. Its just making you look much more scummy by saying ''guys look at this guys they are scummier''.
Scumhunting is pro-town. Scum hunting is not the same as tunnelling. Tunneling is where you refuse to consider a town narrative for what someone is doing, and just keep on insisted that that one person gets lynched, without doing other scum hunting. Remind you of anyone? Certainly not me - I have supported other lynches in the past, am actively asking for more proactive scum hunting from the rest of town, and support at least two lycnhes here.
PPE 2: Great - I guess I'm mainly talking to TA, Teproc, Joseph, chairs here.
PPE 3: Mainly I disagree that getting a 5.0 complete null read is scummy given it's coming from someone who has played as many games as Hydrad.
-
Okay, yeah, the interactions with Hydrad make Edmund look townie. But can you really look at his last few posts and not see how they radiate scumminess?
-
Also I am not getting my usual e-mail alerts of new messages. Anyone else use that feature? It is nice to use at work cause then I can casually follow along without constantly having the browser open to f.DS
I took off that feature because it made me check f.ds too often.
XP's wagon stalling means one of two things, either he is town, and both of scum are on his wagon already, or he is scum, and his partner is off-wagon right now.
-
So that leaves yuma or Joseph as partner, or 2 in Edmund, Twistedarcher, gkrieg13, Teproc. I'll check if that logic makes sense later today.
-
Also I am not getting my usual e-mail alerts of new messages. Anyone else use that feature? It is nice to use at work cause then I can casually follow along without constantly having the browser open to f.DS
I'm getting them fine.
-
The problem is that you are not scumhunting. If i had to translate your latest posts:
''Guys im town but look there is more scummy people lets not lynch me but lynch them instead''
This isnt scummy at practice, but when you look at it deeply its not very towny.
So, if you want to scumhunt, give actual reasoning. Give actual reasoning why we are scummier than you. Give actual evidence why we are scum and you are town. Give evidence that you are town.
Tunneling, my friend, isnt going to help.
Help yourself, before helping others.
-
Uh, lol.
I havent been tunneling you. I just point out your scummy posts and how i see them scummy. Its not my fault most of your posts give a scummy vibe.
And yeah i know tunneling stands for that but AFAIK it also stands for while getting lynched trying to divert attention. Even if you say ''lol thats not what tunneling is'' well i just said what i meant. Take that as you will.
...gkrieg, why did you put yourself in a possible scum poll?
-
PPE 3: Mainly I disagree that getting a 5.0 complete null read is scummy given it's coming from someone who has played as many games as Hydrad.
I don't necessarily think it is scummy, but I don't think it is as "townie" as you are making it out to be...
-
...gkrieg, why did you put yourself in a possible scum poll?
copy/paste.
-
I urge other people to look at Edmund's behavior, which I think has been pretty scummy even for a newbie.
I am still reading him pretty townie... assertive, probing, questioning. Again, those are all attributes that I would put more on newbie town than newbie scum.
Plus the interaction with Hydrad puts him on the townie side.
I tend to agree with yuma here, as newbie scum I think the tendency is often to hide away, because everytime you say things, you're worried about scumslipping (this was how I felt as newbie scum anyway).
-
PPE 3: Mainly I disagree that getting a 5.0 complete null read is scummy given it's coming from someone who has played as many games as Hydrad.
I don't necessarily think it is scummy, but I don't think it is as "townie" as you are making it out to be...
I think putting a scum partner as 5.0 would be very dangerous, as it's completely null.
-
I really don't want to just be the default lynch here - can people actually go look at gkrieg and edmund, because I think they've actually acted pretty scummy.
And I am currently voting for gkrieg... I think he has both scummy interactions AND has played a scummier game. Everyone else seems to really only have one or the other...
I tend to agree with Gkrieg being scummy, Vote: Gkrieg.
-
Vote Count 3.4
gkrieg13 (3): yuma, chairs, Joseph2302
XerxesPraelor (3): Edmund, Twistedarcher, gkrieg13
Edmund (1): XerxesPraelor
Not Voting (1): Teproc
With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends on October 29, 4 pm forum time. That's in ~26 hours.
-
PPE 3: Mainly I disagree that getting a 5.0 complete null read is scummy given it's coming from someone who has played as many games as Hydrad.
I don't necessarily think it is scummy, but I don't think it is as "townie" as you are making it out to be...
I think putting a scum partner as 5.0 would be very dangerous, as it's completely null.
Why?
Scum strives for authenticity. If you would have given a null read on a player as town then you would give them a null read on a player as scum.
I don't know though, most players don't do the wonky numbering system that hydrad does. But I have put fellow scum members at completely null before in my reads--but only if that is how I thought I would have read them if I were town.
And a player with a low post count/volume like Xerxes had during day1/2 is often going to be a null read, regardless of his alignment or other players...
-
And yeah i know tunneling stands for that but AFAIK it also stands for while getting lynched trying to divert attention.
lol thats not what tunneling is
(and using the word that way is misleading and scummy) (and trying to divert attention while getting lynched is what town should do) (seriously, maybe you don't find edmund scummy, but can someone at least back me up here wrt tunneling, "diverting attention"?)
-
I urge other people to look at Edmund's behavior, which I think has been pretty scummy even for a newbie.
I am still reading him pretty townie... assertive, probing, questioning. Again, those are all attributes that I would put more on newbie town than newbie scum.
Plus the interaction with Hydrad puts him on the townie side.
I tend to agree with yuma here, as newbie scum I think the tendency is often to hide away, because everytime you say things, you're worried about scumslipping (this was how I felt as newbie scum anyway).
Hm, this may be an example of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_projection_fallacy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_projection_fallacy). I know I was extremely active and "outrageous" for my first scum game. (which I have linked previously)
-
I urge other people to look at Edmund's behavior, which I think has been pretty scummy even for a newbie.
I am still reading him pretty townie... assertive, probing, questioning. Again, those are all attributes that I would put more on newbie town than newbie scum.
Plus the interaction with Hydrad puts him on the townie side.
I tend to agree with yuma here, as newbie scum I think the tendency is often to hide away, because everytime you say things, you're worried about scumslipping (this was how I felt as newbie scum anyway).
Hm, this may be an example of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_projection_fallacy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_projection_fallacy). I know I was extremely active and "outrageous" for my first scum game. (which I have linked previously)
why is joseph the one falling for this fallacy but you aren't?
-
And yeah i know tunneling stands for that but AFAIK it also stands for while getting lynched trying to divert attention.
lol thats not what tunneling is
(and using the word that way is misleading and scummy) (and trying to divert attention while getting lynched is what town should do) (seriously, maybe you don't find edmund scummy, but can someone at least back me up here wrt tunneling, "diverting attention"?)
I honestly have almost zero idea of what two are talking about.
Neither of your arguments are very coherent...
-
Give evidence that you are town.
Um, I think you might not be reading the thread. Most of my posts since I realized I was close to getting lynched were giving evidence I was town.
So, if you want to scumhunt, give actual reasoning. Give actual reasoning why we are scummier than you.
#816 - you're scum because of how you're tunneling me (using the correct definition)
#811 - I say you're scum because Hydrad put you as scummy without supporting your lynch
#811 - You're scum because town would be less focused and more unclear as to what to do.
Seriously, have you actually been reading my posts? Anyway, this is scummy, as it would be hard to be this clueless on accident.
PPE 2: I didn't say I wasn't falling for the fallacy. I was showing that it could be applicable, since that sort of feeling is not universal for beginning scum players.
-
Agree that Edmund is town. Still want to lynch XP here
-
And yeah i know tunneling stands for that but AFAIK it also stands for while getting lynched trying to divert attention.
lol thats not what tunneling is
(and using the word that way is misleading and scummy) (and trying to divert attention while getting lynched is what town should do) (seriously, maybe you don't find edmund scummy, but can someone at least back me up here wrt tunneling, "diverting attention"?)
I honestly have almost zero idea of what two are talking about.
Neither of your arguments are very coherent...
Edmund is saying I'm scummy for calling other people scummy and "diverting attention" from my lynch.
I am saying that I should be calling people scummy who I find scummy, and as town I should definitely be diverting attention from my lynch.
-
Still want to lynch XP here
Why?
-
Because I think there's a very good chance you flip scum and that your partner is on gkrieg's wagon. I think you're way scummier than he is
-
What will you do if (when) I flip town?
-
What will you do if (when) I flip town?
try and figure out who's scum, same as today. not sure what the point of this question is
-
Is there support for Edmund, I'd be absolutely willing to lynch him.
Vote: Edmund
What changed from here?
PPE: The point of the question is this: Scum!TA wants to lynch town!me and then keep on going like it never happened, with just one townie more dead. Town!TA, having been shown he was wrong, should recalibrate his views given they were badly wrong before.
I want to make sure that even if I get lynched, I'll still help town towards its goal, and asking you to decide now what you think different flips would mean makes it harder for scum to just move past and let this game continue to its natural end.
-
Basically, I think gkrieg is likely to be scum. If he flips town, however, I will give scum points to REDACTED, whereas if it he flips scum as I expect, I will give that person town points and scum points to you particularly.
-
I tend to agree with Gkrieg being scummy, Vote: Gkrieg.
Hey Joseph, why do you think I'm scummy?
-
Is there support for Edmund, I'd be absolutely willing to lynch him.
Vote: Edmund
What changed from here?
PPE: The point of the question is this: Scum!TA wants to lynch town!me and then keep on going like it never happened, with just one townie more dead. Town!TA, having been shown he was wrong, should recalibrate his views given they were badly wrong before.
I want to make sure that even if I get lynched, I'll still help town towards its goal, and asking you to decide now what you think different flips would mean makes it harder for scum to just move past and let this game continue to its natural end.
Obviously I'll recalibrate and my reads will change, but that's better discussed tomorrow, regardless of whether you or gkrieg gets lynched today
-
I think if XP flips town, gkrieg is scum and probably TA is scum.
-
I think if XP flips town, gkrieg is scum and probably TA is scum.
statements like these make me think you're scum and both xp and gkrieg are town.
-
And yeah i know tunneling stands for that but AFAIK it also stands for while getting lynched trying to divert attention.
(and using the word that way is misleading and scummy) (and trying to divert attention while getting lynched is what town should do) (seriously, maybe you don't find edmund scummy, but can someone at least back me up here wrt tunneling, "diverting attention"?)
...
Give evidence that you are town.
Um, I think you might not be reading the thread. Most of my posts since I realized I was close to getting lynched were giving evidence I was town.
So, if you want to scumhunt, give actual reasoning. Give actual reasoning why we are scummier than you.
#816 - you're scum because of how you're tunneling me (using the correct definition)
#811 - I say you're scum because Hydrad put you as scummy without supporting your lynch
#811 - You're scum because town would be less focused and more unclear as to what to do.
Seriously, have you actually been reading my posts? Anyway, this is scummy, as it would be hard to be this clueless on accident.
More wat
And yeah i know tunneling stands for that but AFAIK it also stands for while getting lynched trying to divert attention.
lol thats not what tunneling is
(and using the word that way is misleading and scummy) (and trying to divert attention while getting lynched is what town should do) (seriously, maybe you don't find edmund scummy, but can someone at least back me up here wrt tunneling, "diverting attention"?)
I honestly have almost zero idea of what two are talking about.
Neither of your arguments are very coherent...
Edmund is saying I'm scummy for calling other people scummy and "diverting attention" from my lynch.
I am saying that I should be calling people scummy who I find scummy, and as town I should definitely be diverting attention from my lynch.
...
So,
XP,
For beginners, there is only 2 scum left (pay attention to your scum pt pls)
So scum getting lynched here is very bad for scum and pretty good for town
Whereas lynching town is like "well that happened"
So if you want to lynch actual scum after your so called huge mega "town-flip" actually bring reasons and try to help town pls
-
Are you really saying I should want myself to be lynched? That's crazy.
-
And just saying "..." and "wat" is rude and unhelpful. Those posts were "bringing reasons".
-
So if you want to lynch actual scum after your so called huge mega "town-flip" actually bring reasons and try to help town pls
I can't lynch scum if I am dead.
-
Whereas lynching town is like "well that happened"
If I understand edmund's super-colloquial language here correctly, he's saying that it's perfectly fine to lynch town. This is WRONG. If you lynch town, that is bad and you should feel bad. It is not just like "well that happened".
-
Are you really saying I should want myself to be lynched? That's crazy.
Reposting for emphasis.
-
Are you really saying I should want myself to be lynched? That's crazy.
-
And yeah i know tunneling stands for that but AFAIK it also stands for while getting lynched trying to divert attention.
(and using the word that way is misleading and scummy) (and trying to divert attention while getting lynched is what town should do) (seriously, maybe you don't find edmund scummy, but can someone at least back me up here wrt tunneling, "diverting attention"?)
...
Give evidence that you are town.
Um, I think you might not be reading the thread. Most of my posts since I realized I was close to getting lynched were giving evidence I was town.
So, if you want to scumhunt, give actual reasoning. Give actual reasoning why we are scummier than you.
#816 - you're scum because of how you're tunneling me (using the correct definition)
#811 - I say you're scum because Hydrad put you as scummy without supporting your lynch
#811 - You're scum because town would be less focused and more unclear as to what to do.
Seriously, have you actually been reading my posts? Anyway, this is scummy, as it would be hard to be this clueless on accident.
More wat
"more wat" and "..." are not useful, pro-town, at all.
-
ummmm....
vote: XP
-
PS: L-1 and what not...
-
XP: What do you think of Joseph?
-
XP: What do you think of Joseph?
no particular opinion
lynch gkrieg/yuma, or TA/Edmund
I guess I'll stop "distracting from" my lynch, like Edmund wants. You all can pick up the mess that comes from following his recommendations. vote: XerxesPraelor
-
WILL PEOPLE QUIT SELF-HAMMERING!!!!!!!
-
XP: What do you think of Joseph?
no particular opinion
This was important because I was putting partner interactions together and finding that if Joseph wasn't your partner, no one else fit. But then you had to hammer yourself. How does that help town at all.
-
okay, that sounded genuine.
It doesn't help town, but I was trying for a long time to help town, and people were siding with Edmund, who was calling me scummy for not being anti-town. Hopefully self-hammering can at least convince Edmund that I'm town.
-
That has been the majority of our lynches so far though.
-
I regret it now, if that makes you feel any better.
I would look strongly at yuma. Though edmund might be saying stupid things because he doesn't understand mafia, yuma's actions (given I think gkrieg is town now) (and I am too) are extremely suspect.
-
Day 3 Final Vote Count
gkrieg13 (2): chairs, Joseph2302
XerxesPraelor (5): Edmund, Twistedarcher, gkrieg13, yuma, XerxesPraelor
Not Voting (1): Teproc
With 8 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
-
Ben Carson ends campaign after disastrous primary results
Long-time frontrunner Ben Carson has announced that he would end his campaign to become president after bad primary results. Experts believe that his statements concerning the assassination attempt on former candidate Donald Trump have caused his bad performance.
Looking only at the past months' poll numbers, noone would have expected these results for Republican hopeful Ben Carson. After only receiving 1.6 percent of the otes in South Carolina's primary and a similar result in Nevada's caucus, he finished even behind outside candidates such as Mike Huckabee. As a result, Ben Carson suspended his campaign immediately.
Many observers believe that the bad results may be due to Carson's comment on the terrorist attack on Donald Trump last month. Carson stated that he was "disappointed" in Trump: in the opinion of the neurosurgeon, Trump is to blame for the deaths of two bystanders that were shot while the terrorists tried to kill Trump.
"If Trump had stepped forward and had assaulted the attackers immediately, fewer people would have been hurt", said Carson in a debate following the attack. His contenders have criticized Carson harshly for these words - Chris Christie for instance called the statement "despicable" - but Carson has not backed down. In a later interview, he even added: "In a way, what happened is fortunate. We all know now that Trump does not possess the courage it takes to become commander-in-chief."
Carson's demise opens the Republican field widely. With only days left before Super Tuesday, it remains completely unclear who will take the win.
XerxesPraelor has been lynched! He was Ben Carson, the Vanilla Townie!
Night 3 begins now and ends on October 30, 6 pm forum time. Night actions are due within 24 hours.
-
Marco Rubio arrested - suspected racial profiling
Progress in the investigation on the assassination attempt on Donald Trump? Early this morning, the polica has taking Marco Rubio into custody. The charges are so far uncertain. Rubio's supporters protest against this decision and call the arrestment "racial profiling".
After Lindsey Graham, the scandal surrounding the shooting during Donald Trump's celebration party has affected yet another Republican candidate: Marco Rubio, who has so far led the polls after several hopefuls have been forced out of the race, is now apparently under suspicion of having help organize the assassination.
Only a couple of hours after the announcement, thousands of Rubio's supporters have gathered in a spontaneous protest march against the decision. A speaker said: "This is clearly racial profiling. Rubio is under suspicion because he is of hispanic origin, same as the terrorists. We will not allow this country to discriminate against people based on the color of their skin!"
This arrest two days before Super Tuesday will certainly affect the primary votes. It is to be expected that Rubio will get bad results - noone wants to vote a terrorist after all, even if he is not yet convicted. Guilty or not, the events have virtually brought Rubio's campaign to an end.
chairs has been killed. He was Marco Rubio, the Town-aligned Jailkeeper!
Day 4 begins!
Vote Count 4.0
Not Voting (6): gkrieg13, yuma, Joseph2302, Edmund, Teproc, Twistedarcher
With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 starts now and ends November 6 at 2 pm forum time.
-
vote:no lynch
-
vote: no-lynch
-
I guess. We should leave time for everyone to check in, there is an investigative role in the setup, kinda.
-
I guess. We should leave time for everyone to check in, there is an investigative role in the setup, kinda.
It's pretty useless now though.
-
I guess. We should leave time for everyone to check in, there is an investigative role in the setup, kinda.
It's pretty useless now though.
Vote: Gkrieg, because I still think he's scummy.
Also, someone ecplain why no-lynch is so good here? It gives scum a kill, putting us down to 3 vs 2. Why not try and kill scum instead?
-
No lynch is good because we are at an even number of players and in a lylo/mylo situation.
Basically no-lynching here forces the mafia to make a decision about whom to kill for us. It makes it so that there is one less player for us to potentially mislynch.
One thing I will say is that tomorrow we should go back and see if there were any mild breadcrumbs for who chairs might have JKed... (either who he would want to protect or who he would want to block) if we find any that would make that person less suspicious as it would mean that if that person were JKed they can't have been the person performing the kill and thus less likely to be mafia...
But I don't think the analysis should be done now (at least not publicly stated), wait until tomorrow to do it
-
Vote: No Lynch
But do tell me more about it yuma. Is there anything that caught your eye or are you just saying this to say something?
-
Vote: No Lynch
But do tell me more about it yuma. Is there anything that caught your eye or are you just saying this to say something?
Nothing caught my eye necessarily cause i havent gone and looked over his posts yet. But when a JK dies it is something worth doing, considering his reads that is and seeing if there is a breadcrumb. It isn't concrete. I wanted to make sure I mentioned it so that at least someone would think to do it tomorrow.
-
Vote Count 4.1
gkrieg13 (1): Joseph2302
No lynch (3): Twistedarcher, gkrieg13, Edmund
Not Voting (2): yuma, Teproc
With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 starts now and ends November 6 at 2 pm forum time.
-
anyone have anything else to say...
I think most things are going to be best saved for tomorrow...
-
anyone have anything else to say...
I think most things are going to be best saved for tomorrow...
I agre. Just hammer
-
anyone have anything else to say...
I think most things are going to be best saved for tomorrow...
I agre. Just hammer
oke doke...
too bad no lynch isn't around to self hammer...
vote: no lynch
-
Day 4 Final Vote Count
gkrieg13 (1): Joseph2302
No lynch (4): Twistedarcher, gkrieg13, Edmund, yuma
Not Voting (1): Teproc
With 6 alive, it took 4 to no lynch.
Night 4 starts now and lasts 48 hours (shorter upon request). Please get your night actions in within 24 hours.
-
Poor results for Rand Paul after alleged affair
While Super Tuesday has not brought the hoped-for clarity to the Republican presidential race, it has at least seen one loser - Senator Rand Paul has announced that he would drop out of the race after he saw the results. He complained that he has been the victim of a smear campaign.
After lots of turmoil in the Republican presidential race, GOP voters looked to Super Tuesday for a decision. They hardly got what they hoped for: while frontrunner Carly Fiorina kept a certain distance to the rest of the candidates, Jeb Bush's campaign seems to have finally picked off.
One thing however is clear: Rand Paul will not continue his campaign. The last days saw a lot of outrage in the Republican party after pictures have been leaked showing Paul kissing Daily Show correspondent Jessica Williams. Both have repeatedly stated that the images were "clearly photoshopped" and that the two of them had a purely professional relationship. This statement however has not calmed the indignation among conservative voters.
"How can we trust this man to lead America", said contented Mike Huckabee, "when not even his wife can trust him? Instead of keeping the holy vows of marriage, he engages in sexual intimacies with the enemy!"
Paul is married and has three sons.
Teproc has been killed! He was Rand Paul, the Town-aligned Hidden Odd Night Bomb!
Day 5 begins!
Vote Count 5.0
Not Voting (5): gkrieg13, yuma, Joseph2302, Edmund, Twistedarcher
With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 5 ends November 9 at 1 pm forum time.
-
Well we'll start out with I'm the voyeur. It was super useless in this setup.
-
Well we'll start out with I'm the voyeur. It was super useless in this setup.
Night actions? Results?
-
N1 silverspawn: Voyeur
N2 Teproc: no result. This is why I knew we had a JK, and why I was pretty sure it was chairs. Unfortunately my pushing of him didn't get us anywhere.
N3: I didn't make it in time. I realized that I couldn't really figure anything out anyway, because I don't get the names of the players.
N4 Teproc again: Factional Kill, Voyeur.
-
Well I am still scummy on gkrieg, but a reread (at the least a re-evaluation of previous re-reads as it has been a while I need to refresh myself with this game and my reads) is due, before any voting takes place given the mylo situation we are in.
As is the bit about seeing if chair's did any breadcrumbing...
-
Also I should probably stomp my feet and raise some dust and shout a lot about xerxes' selfvoting just to make TA happy... But I won't...
Stamp stamp, shout shout.
It sure is dusty in here...
-
Possible breadcrumbs by chairs, I am paying more attention to examples of chairs having a scumread. I believe that JK is generally better used on players that you want to stop from performing the kill (or doing other scummy actions) rather than stopping from being killed. Because if you do the later than you are effectively turning the JK into a doctor, which is a much weaker role. Optimal play is generally to put someone that you both have a scummy read on and perhaps want to protect. Scummy posters of high posting volume for example... But this is all speculative as who knows how chairs actually used his role.
In addition I am only looking at people still alive for the sake of time...
For Night1: Kinda RSVP on Joseph (maybe JKed him)
For Night2: scummy read on gkrieg (vote) and edmund. Town read on yuma. Ends up saying would want to lynch Edmund/Joseph
For Night3: scumread on gkrieg (vote), "if XP flips think gkrieg is scum and ta is scum"
I couldn't find any obvious breadcrumbs. If they are there, they are less than obvious... feel free to see if you can find any...
Night1 I don't think is all that useful.
Night2 is a little bit more useful with his scumreads on Edmund and Joseph, meaning he would be more likely to JK them I think. Of course if gkrieg is telling the truth then he JKed Teproc this night and the Night2 speculation is moot...
Night3 is even more useful with him putting out a "if X happens, then Y" scenario where it came true as XP flipped town. So this means that if chairs followed this conclusion into night he likely put one of TA/gkrieg into jail. So that makes them less likely to be mafia I think given that the kill went through.
-
Well, i counterclaim gkrieg.
Night actions:
N1, watched TA, neapolitan.
N2, watched yuma, no visits.
N3, watched yuma again, jailkeeper.
N4, watched Teproc, killed.
The reason why i was against a TA lynch was because i saw him got investigated. Now, since mafia wouldnt investigate their own ppl, hes conf town.
Vote: gkrieg13
-
Uh guys, Edmund's claim doesn't make any sense. There is no neapolitan...
vote: Edmund
-
Uh guys, Edmund's claim doesn't make any sense. There is no neapolitan...
vote: Edmund
Yes it does, read the setup.
-
Either way the results that he got are all wrong. You don't get a jk result or no visitors result. You get no result at voyeur.
-
Setup:
3 Mafia Goons
10 Townies
The Mafia has a factional Neapolitan (investigates Vanilla Townie/non-Vanilla Townie) and a factional 1-shot Ninja.
-
Either way the results that he got are all wrong. You don't get a jk result or no visitors result. You get no result at voyeur.
True, according to Mafia Scum (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Voyeur), you learn what happened (investigate etc.), but not who did it.
-
Either way the results that he got are all wrong. You don't get a jk result or no visitors result. You get no result at voyeur.
True, according to Mafia Scum (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Voyeur), you learn what happened (investigate etc.), but not who did it.
isnt that what edmund is claiming? not seeing the inconsistency of the results here.
-
N1 silverspawn: Voyeur
N2 Teproc: no result. This is why I knew we had a JK, and why I was pretty sure it was chairs. Unfortunately my pushing of him didn't get us anywhere.
N3: I didn't make it in time. I realized that I couldn't really figure anything out anyway, because I don't get the names of the players.
N4 Teproc again: Factional Kill, Voyeur.
Well, i counterclaim gkrieg.
Night actions:
N1, watched TA, neapolitan.
N2, watched yuma, no visits.
N3, watched yuma again, jailkeeper.
N4, watched Teproc, killed.
The reason why i was against a TA lynch was because i saw him got investigated. Now, since mafia wouldnt investigate their own ppl, hes conf town.
Vote: gkrieg13
actually both of these make me confused...
Being Jailkept doesn't stop a person from being investigated. So if a voyeur investigated a person who was investigated then they still should have received a result...
-
Because
The Voyeur learns what actions were performed on a player, but not who targeted them.
and from jailkeeper
Base Role
A Jailkeeper (or Jailer)'s Night Action is one that protects its target from kills, but also Roleblocks its target. Unlike Doctor, Jailkeeper's protection extends to stopping every kill that would resolve on the target by default.
Because it is a combination Doctor and Roleblocker, Jailkeeper has a myriad of uses while not allowing broken combinations or exactly confirming anyone as Town or scum. Thus, it has risen to prominence as a very popular power role.
Because it is a Roleblocker, Jailkeeper is never allowed to self-target.
This role is a non-bastard version of Paranoid Doctor.
Variations
Some Jailkeepers not only protect their target from all kills, but also render its target untargetable by all other actions during that Night. This variant is also known as Alien.
-
wait I am getting my head spinning... gkrieg was saying that he was jailed on night2 right?
Not that Teproc was jailed...
Whereas Edmund is seeming to state that no one visited me, but if Edmund visited me, then he should have seen himself...
-
PS to future mods... this is why you have model PMs written out in the OP if the game is an open setup... Cause right now I don't know what a player gets in certain situations....
-
Either way the results that he got are all wrong. You don't get a jk result or no visitors result. You get no result at voyeur.
True, according to Mafia Scum (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Voyeur), you learn what happened (investigate etc.), but not who did it.
isnt that what edmund is claiming? not seeing the inconsistency of the results here.
Cr*p yes, he's saying that the JK action happened N3 to yuma not that the JK targetted yuma. No contradiction with Mafiascum then.
-
N1 silverspawn: Voyeur
N2 Teproc: no result. This is why I knew we had a JK, and why I was pretty sure it was chairs. Unfortunately my pushing of him didn't get us anywhere.
N3: I didn't make it in time. I realized that I couldn't really figure anything out anyway, because I don't get the names of the players.
N4 Teproc again: Factional Kill, Voyeur.
Well, i counterclaim gkrieg.
Night actions:
N1, watched TA, neapolitan.
N2, watched yuma, no visits.
N3, watched yuma again, jailkeeper.
N4, watched Teproc, killed.
The reason why i was against a TA lynch was because i saw him got investigated. Now, since mafia wouldnt investigate their own ppl, hes conf town.
Vote: gkrieg13
actually both of these make me confused...
Being Jailkept doesn't stop a person from being investigated. So if a voyeur investigated a person who was investigated then they still should have received a result...
I agree with this, which makes his N2 action seem wrong.
So we know that either Gkrieg or Edmund is scum (I'm guessing not both), right now I'm edging towards Edmund as scum.
-
Ugh... that isn't right either.
Let me come back to this. I am posting in a rush at work and can't really think straight about this. Let me get home and figure this out a little better.
Now that it is down to the two of them we can take our time a little bit with this and make sure we get it right...
-
Well I now have four possible scum pairings...as do Yuma and Joseph from their perspective. Gkrieg has 3 to consider if town, Edmund has 2. Planning on rereading to see what makes sense.
-
Also I am pretty sure we want to lynch gkrieg/Edmund but not 100%. We still have to make a decision out of Yuma/Joseph/TA either today or tomorrow but getting a scum voice out of the way may make that decision easier and make the interactions easier to figure out.
-
Well I now have four possible scum pairings...as do Yuma and Joseph from their perspective. Gkrieg has 3 to consider if town, Edmund has 2. Planning on rereading to see what makes sense.
Why do I have 3 but Edmund only has 2?
-
Well I now have four possible scum pairings...as do Yuma and Joseph from their perspective. Gkrieg has 3 to consider if town, Edmund has 2. Planning on rereading to see what makes sense.
Why do I have 3 but Edmund only has 2?
He's claiming a town result on me, you aren't claiming a town result are you?
-
Edmunds claim is the more polished one which makes it seem more suspicious. I also voted for Edmund n1. I wish we had lynchees claim their votes.
-
wait I am getting my head spinning... gkrieg was saying that he was jailed on night2 right?
Not that Teproc was jailed...
Whereas Edmund is seeming to state that no one visited me, but if Edmund visited me, then he should have seen himself...
Huh. I had also saw voyeur on every night except n2. JK probably jailed me.
Iagree with this, which makes his N2 action seem wrong.
So we know that either Gkrieg or Edmund is scum (I'm guessing not both), right now I'm edging towards Edmund as scum.
Oh, tell me that isnt "he claimed first" bullshit. Last time i had it and its plain out stupid.
-
N2, watched yuma, no visits.
It's this nights that I have a problem with. You never get no visits with voyeur, because you always visit them.
PPE: 3
I also voted Edmund on the first night. I guess that doesn't help anything though...
No I didn't get a town result on anyone. I see what you are saying now.
-
I also don't think you use the term "counterclaim" if someone claims your role.
-
So, what do you want me to say?
"Ho, im the voyeur, not you!"
They both mean the same thing. So yeah, you use counterclaim if someone claims your role.
-
We also know that mafia either chose knowledge or blend-in in this situation. The other ones don't really add up, seeing as we've seen all of the PRs.
PPE
-
Also I am pretty sure we want to lynch gkrieg/Edmund but not 100%. We still have to make a decision out of Yuma/Joseph/TA either today or tomorrow but getting a scum voice out of the way may make that decision easier and make the interactions easier to figure out.
This is something to consider. I think the only thing that makes me not want to do it is in the situation where Edmund is being honest and both he and ta are town. If that is true and we don't lynch him then that makes ta pretty likely to be town...
And that would mean then a 50/50 today and then a 50/50 (from your perspective) chance tomorrow between Joseph and myself.
If we decide to lynch Edmund today and are correct then we will still have a 1/3 tomorrow.
But if we decide between the three of us today it is 1/3 and if we get it right then 1/2 guaranteed.
So maybe we should only go for the 1/3 if we decide gkrieg is the scummier?
-
Sorry that above post is confusing on reread... let's see if I can make it simpler.
We have X options, assuming in all of them that we hit mafia on the first lynch and the game continues:
1. 50/50 lynch gkrieg; 50/50 lynch day6
2. 50/50 lynch edmund; 33/33/33 lynch day6
3. 33/33/33 lynch; 50/50 lynch day6
So just from an odds perspective the only way we would want to lynch among the three non-voyeurs is if we already decided that gkrieg should be the lynch among the voyeurs, and thus we have decided that TA shouldn't be lynched... meaning from my perspective that we should lynch Joseph. But even then I don't know if there is a benefit of doing that over just lynching gkrieg if that is what we think we should do...
(Also I am throwing out possibilities of Edmund/gkrieg being the scum team and counter claiming each other in some crazy gambit mostly because it just occurred to me and that seems just plain nuts, even considering gkrieg did an even crazier gambit last game)
-
Edmund, why did you choose to not follow SS's plan?
If you were going to break ranks why go for voyeur?
I voted for TA Night1, and yes I guess we should have had people talk about voting. That could have been useful. I kinda forgot about it...
-
Sorry that above post is confusing on reread... let's see if I can make it simpler.
We have X options, assuming in all of them that we hit mafia on the first lynch and the game continues:
1. 50/50 lynch gkrieg; 50/50 lynch day6
2. 50/50 lynch edmund; 33/33/33 lynch day6
3. 33/33/33 lynch; 50/50 lynch day6
So just from an odds perspective the only way we would want to lynch among the three non-voyeurs is if we already decided that gkrieg should be the lynch among the voyeurs, and thus we have decided that TA shouldn't be lynched... meaning from my perspective that we should lynch Joseph. But even then I don't know if there is a benefit of doing that over just lynching gkrieg if that is what we think we should do...
(Also I am throwing out possibilities of Edmund/gkrieg being the scum team and counter claiming each other in some crazy gambit mostly because it just occurred to me and that seems just plain nuts, even considering gkrieg did an even crazier gambit last game)
Why would we ever go with percentages? It's not like there is any probabilities here. Edmund is scum! All of the roles have already been decided!
PPE: This is a great point!
-
Why would we ever go with percentages? It's not like there is any probabilities here. Edmund is scum!
Well I don't know that!
And we wouldn't just go off percentages, duh... But that is something to base what we should do next. I neglected to look at percentages enough last game when you fake claimed remember...
-
Why would we ever go with percentages? It's not like there is any probabilities here. Edmund is scum!
Well I don't know that!
And we wouldn't just go off percentages, duh... But that is something to base what we should do next. I neglected to look at percentages enough last game when you fake claimed remember...
I can understand percentages with claims, but not with who to lynch at LYLO.
-
Why would we ever go with percentages? It's not like there is any probabilities here. Edmund is scum!
Well I don't know that!
And we wouldn't just go off percentages, duh... But that is something to base what we should do next. I neglected to look at percentages enough last game when you fake claimed remember...
I can understand percentages with claims, but not with who to lynch at LYLO.
That was the situation we were in last game... And I am not percentaging who we should lynch. I am percentaging out of which group we should lynch first the claimers or the non-voyeurs... Cause TA suggested we may want to lynch out me/TA/Joseph first...
-
Why would we ever go with percentages? It's not like there is any probabilities here. Edmund is scum!
Well I don't know that!
And we wouldn't just go off percentages, duh... But that is something to base what we should do next. I neglected to look at percentages enough last game when you fake claimed remember...
I can understand percentages with claims, but not with who to lynch at LYLO.
That was the situation we were in last game... And I am not percentaging who we should lynch. I am percentaging out of which group we should lynch first the claimers or the non-voyeurs... Cause TA suggested we may want to lynch out me/TA/Joseph first...
Now I see what you're saying. I definitely think we should go from the voyeurs first.
-
OK:
Voyeur:
The Voyeur learns what actions were performed on a player, but not who targeted them.... If a Voyeur is somehow blocked from their action (by Roleblocker, Jailkeeper, Rolestopper, Ascetic, or Commuter), they should receive a "No Result" pm, rather than a "did not see anything" pm. A Voyeur would not see a Ninja committing a kill, however, and would receive a "did not see anything" pm in that case.
JK:
A Jailkeeper that simultaneously blocks and protects their target is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, provided that any mutual blocking scenarios are planned for during review. Any role that receives results (such as Tracker or Watcher) but is blocked should receive a "no result" message, rather than told their target didn't go anywhere or nobody visited their target.
gkrieg claim:
N1 silverspawn: Voyeur
N2 Teproc: no result. This is why I knew we had a JK, and why I was pretty sure it was chairs. Unfortunately my pushing of him didn't get us anywhere.
N3: I didn't make it in time. I realized that I couldn't really figure anything out anyway, because I don't get the names of the players.
N4 Teproc again: Factional Kill, Voyeur.
So,
night1 he is saying he targeted SS and only saw himself targeting SS.
night2 he is saying that he targeted Teproc but was jailkept himself (need to go back and see if this is consistent with what I just wrote... short term memory used to be a thing I had... in regard to chairs reads)
night3 - no action at all
night4 - he is saying he targeted Teproc and saw both himself and the night kill targeting Teproc
Edmund claim:
Night actions:
N1, watched TA, neapolitan.
N2, watched yuma, no visits.
N3, watched yuma again, jailkeeper.
N4, watched Teproc, killed.
So,
night1 - he is saying he targeted TA and saw the neapolitan visit TA, but doesn't mention himself
night2 - he is saying he targeted me but didn't see anyone visit me. If JKed I think he should have received "no result" if he was the only one who visited me then he should have seen himself.
night3 - he is saying he visited me and thought that I was JKed by chairs, but doesn't mention himself
night4 - he is saying he visited Teproc and saw him get killed, but doesn't mention himself.
So here is where I stand on this:
Edmund's claim is either fake or he didn't pay enough attention as he was putting it together because:
1. He never mentions himself in his investigation, which if faust correctly processed the night actions (which I am assuming he did cause faust is a good mod) then he should have received results about himself.
2. When JKed he should (again assuming faust followed mafia scum) have received "no result" instead of "no visits."
This makes me suspect Edmund quite a bit more just intrinsically on this. I think when claiming a true voyeur would make sure to get the details right rather than risk a possible misinterpretation. Whereas a fake claim he just might not have known any better if he hadn't done the prior research. Again, all of this is basing assumptions on the mod's ability to mod, but I think we have to base assumptions on that otherwise the whole point of the game collapses on itself. I would hate to lynch Edmund as the real voyeur who just didn't put enough attention into stating the results that were given him: not putting himself into the investigation results/stating the "no results" instead of summarizing "no visits"
So I am going to do a reread and look a bit more closely at possible partners as well as look into whether or not I think chairs would have JKed gkrieg Night2/me Night3, but right now just based off the claims I suspect Edmund quite a bit more.
PS: If I got anything wrong in the summaries, the two claimed voyeurs are free to correct me
-
Looks right from my end!
-
Edmund, why did you choose to not follow SS's plan?
If you were going to break ranks why go for voyeur?
I voted for TA Night1, and yes I guess we should have had people talk about voting. That could have been useful. I kinda forgot about it...
I didnt followed the plan because as i said ind1, they seem pointless.
I wanted to have a powerrole that no one would choose. JK and babysitter was bound to get taken. Neighbours will also most likely get taken. Then there were only voyeur and bomb left, and i decided to go with the viditing one since i thought i wouldnt be able to be active and pro town eniugh to get myself NKed.
-
For the record, i didnt got a "no visits" pm, i was mentioning that i havent saw anyone visit you.
-
Edmund, why did you choose to not follow SS's plan?
If you were going to break ranks why go for voyeur?
I voted for TA Night1, and yes I guess we should have had people talk about voting. That could have been useful. I kinda forgot about it...
I didnt followed the plan because as i said ind1, they seem pointless.
I wanted to have a powerrole that no one would choose. JK and babysitter was bound to get taken. Neighbours will also most likely get taken. Then there were only voyeur and bomb left, and i decided to go with the viditing one since i thought i wouldnt be able to be active and pro town eniugh to get myself NKed.
Babysitter and voyeur were the two that were explicitly stated to be taken, by ss and gkrieg... The others all required odds of getting them... (flipping coins and what not)
-
For the record, i didnt got a "no visits" pm, i was mentioning that i havent saw anyone visit you.
But did you get a pm stating that a voyeur, you, had visited me?
-
For the record, i didnt got a "no visits" pm, i was mentioning that i havent saw anyone visit you.
This is an impossible PM to get. You can get No result. But not no visits
-
Possible breadcrumbs by chairs, I am paying more attention to examples of chairs having a scumread. I believe that JK is generally better used on players that you want to stop from performing the kill (or doing other scummy actions) rather than stopping from being killed. Because if you do the later than you are effectively turning the JK into a doctor, which is a much weaker role. Optimal play is generally to put someone that you both have a scummy read on and perhaps want to protect. Scummy posters of high posting volume for example... But this is all speculative as who knows how chairs actually used his role.
In addition I am only looking at people still alive for the sake of time...
For Night1: Kinda RSVP on Joseph (maybe JKed him)
For Night2: scummy read on gkrieg (vote) and edmund. Town read on yuma. Ends up saying would want to lynch Edmund/Joseph
For Night3: scumread on gkrieg (vote), "if XP flips think gkrieg is scum and ta is scum"
I couldn't find any obvious breadcrumbs. If they are there, they are less than obvious... feel free to see if you can find any...
Night1 I don't think is all that useful.
Night2 is a little bit more useful with his scumreads on Edmund and Joseph, meaning he would be more likely to JK them I think. Of course if gkrieg is telling the truth then he JKed Teproc this night and the Night2 speculation is moot...
Night3 is even more useful with him putting out a "if X happens, then Y" scenario where it came true as XP flipped town. So this means that if chairs followed this conclusion into night he likely put one of TA/gkrieg into jail. So that makes them less likely to be mafia I think given that the kill went through.
Here is my post about chairs...
I have a really hard time believing that chairs JKed me Night3. I really, really think he put one of TA/gkreig in jail... which we can't confirm from gkrieg's perspective as he didn't submit a night action...
Wait... faust started that day, day4 early.... I can't see him start a day early without receiving night actions...
Night 3 begins now and ends on October 30, 6 pm forum time. Night actions are due within 24 hours.
Day 4 begins!
What is the rule on that? There doesn't seem to be any specific rules on this? Oh never mind, he says that night actions are due in 24 hours instead of the 48 hours night is... that makes more sense... making that point moot.
But the point about the JKing I think is important. And I do think there is a narrative... see above for chairs JKing gkrieg on night2 as he claimed happened, although that isn't continued into day3 as chairs still wanted to lynch gkrieg the next day meaning his read on him wasn't lessened on if by the NK still going through after JKing gkrieg...
-
Oh wait... was Night2 the night that hydrad/ss died? Then chairs, along with everyone else would have known that hydrad was the one that performed the kill meaning anything he might have learned about gkrieg had no meaning given knowing who performed the NK.
So yeah the JKing research points more to chairs being scummier than gkrieg...
-
Ugh... Fix for typo
So yeah the JKing research points more to chairs Edmund being scummier than gkrieg...
-
Another thing I want to look at--putting it here now to remind myself to do it later--is to analyze who out of gkrieg/edmund had something to gain by fake claiming.
Because in general each of us, at the start of the day had a 2/5 (40%) chance of being lynched. Fakeclaiming ups that chance to 50%. So for someone to fakeclaim they must have felt it was necessary, hence they must have felt they had a greater than 50% chance of being lynched to make the fakeclaim worth it.
Although in gkrieg's position unless mafia chose knowledge there likely would have been no reason for them to suspect that there would have been an actual voyeur..., but there was still a possibility of such... so I guess that logic doesn't necessarily apply here as much... but is still worth looking at for the perspective of "if this is a fakeclaim, does it benefit the person making it?"
-
For the record, i didnt got a "no visits" pm, i was mentioning that i havent saw anyone visit you.
But did you get a pm stating that a voyeur, you, had visited me?
No. I already said it.
For the record, i didnt got a "no visits" pm, i was mentioning that i havent saw anyone visit you.
This is an impossible PM to get. You can get No result. But not no visits
Did you even read?
-
For the record, i didnt got a "no visits" pm, i was mentioning that i havent saw anyone visit you.
But did you get a pm stating that a voyeur, you, had visited me?
No. I already said it.
I am not going to apologize for wanting a clarification, I want to get this right. And you aren't exactly Mr. Super Clear...
So Edmund is saying that he didn't get a PM stating that he visited me on a night that he visited me.
So are you saying you were JKed on this night?
Because if you were, you should have received a "no result" PM. Did you get a PM that said "nor result" or did you get a PM that said "no visits"
I don't feel like it should be this hard to get a straightforward answer from you... Like I really have no idea what or did not happen during these claimed nights you are talking about
-
Uh guys, Edmund's claim doesn't make any sense. There is no neapolitan...
vote: Edmund
Also quoting this so I remember it....
Either gkrieg is scum here pretending to forget that there is a neapolitan... weird... why?
OR
is town that legitimately didn't know there wasn't a neapolitan... really... seriously?
I guess there is a third option in that gkrieg is scum whose whole team didn't realize they had a neapolitan--but I think we can safely through that out as being just too ridiculous
-
Ok, now time for the 4 possibilities that TA was talking about...
From my perspective there is:
Edmund-TA
Edmund-Joseph
gkrieg-TA
grkieg-Joseph
I think for this purpose I am going to rank them from highest to lowest possibility, but I don't necessarily think that that is the way to decide who to lynch. I think the main concern is to decide who is most likely scum out of the two claimed voyeurs (taking into account teammate possibilities) and then if correct move on from there. Otherwise I think you can start introducing too many variables that cloud the ultimate question for today, but is still good to know both for later and for helping making decisions today.
Edmund - TA possible partner interactions:
So the big one here is Edmund stating that he voyeured TA on Night1 - saw that he had been Neapolitan investigated and is thus much less likely to be mafia because mafia wouldn't investigate themselves. The question is then whether or not scum!edmund would tie himself to TA this way or if it is more likely that scum!edmund is looking to get on the good side of town!TA with a result that inflates town!TA's knowledge of himself being town.
other interactions:
reread Edmund
- Day2 states in #434 that TA is a townread because of post #428.
- Day3 states that TA is a very bad lynch for today #682
- Day3 disagrees with TA on his case on me (yuma)
reread TA
- #345 - probes chairs for backpeddling the possibility of edmund being mafia
- #446 - would be fine lynching edmund (no explanation) at a time when edmund had 0 votes
- #516 - votes edmund, immediately followed by Hydrad's "only one way to find out"
- #835 - agrees that edmund is town (I think this is after Teproc's analysis of edmund-hydrad interactions
posting this now cause I can't finish all 4 in one sitting and don't want to lose it in the mean time... tl:dr summary coming later
-
Vote Count 5.1
gkrieg13 (1): Edmund
Edmund (1): gkrieg13
Not Voting (3): yuma, Joseph2302, Twistedarcher
With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch. Day 5 ends November 9 at 1 pm forum time.
-
Edmund-Joseph possible partner interactions:
Ok, so main point here is how both relate to Hydrad. Both were placed by Teproc's analysis on the townier side due to how Hydrad interacted with them. For this to work it would mean that hydrad placed votes on both partners basically right next to each other at a semi-critical time during day2.
Other interactions:
reread Edmund:
- Day2 - #434 - states Joseph is scummy for jumping to conclusions and for hedging on yuma/TA
- Day2 - #590 - main point argument on Xerxes is about Xerxes not taking a stance on Joseph
reread Joseph:
- Day1 - #63 - votes edmund for being new (RVS)
- Day1 - #170 - both edmund and joseph voted side by side on me for putting ash to L-1
- Day2 - #479 - votes Edmund, for disagreeing with seeing anything scummy in xerxes posts
- Day2 - #569 - ends up voting for xerxes after hearing back from edmund
- Day3 - #750 - disagrees with edmund for wanting to lynch xerxes; questions why a TA lynch would be so bad
- Day3 - #825 - agrees with me in assessing edmund as newbie town, not newbie scum
-
gkrieg-TA
reread gkrieg:
- Day2 #354 - agrees with a townread I have on TA.
- Day2 #443 - states one of SS, XP, TA are scum (ash stated this day1, which is why gkrieg is isolating the three) doesn't think it is TA though. Says TA is townie
- Day3 #648 - votes TA out of the gates with no reasoning
- Day3 #657 - oh right this whole thing were grkieg votes for TA early and then goes back and decides he is scummy... it gets more involved, but this was my whole point about gkrieg day3... I remembered it, but forgot that it had dealt with TA. AT the time I hadn't really considered the possibility that much of it being bussing...
- Day3 #670 - more about why TA is scummy, because I was pressuring gkrieg about this
- Day3 #675 - big reread post about Hydrad, points out some behavior with TA, but ultimately ends up deciding to vote for chairs because of the JK thing...
- Day3 #691 - has a back and forth about gkrieg's townread on teproc
reread TA:
- Day3 #667 - responds to gkrieg's vote with "I think you are wrong, but I think you are town"
- Day3 #680 - asks gkrieg to elaborate on teproc
- Day3 #741 - agrees with a town reading on grkieg by teproc
- Day3 #767 - asks joseph to elaborate on teproc/gkrieg
- Day3 #838 - wants to lynch XP because "I think there's a very good chance you flip scum and that your partner is on gkrieg's wagon. I think you're way scummier than he is"
- Day3 #846 - thinks chairs could be scum because of a statement and as a result thinks XP/gkreig are town
-
Ok... powering through one more...
grkieg-Joseph
reread gkrieg:
- Day1 - #70 says scum team is ash-joseph-edmund
- Day1 - #262 doesn't trust joseph in SS's plan for the roles so asks it to be switched around
- Day2 - #443 responds to joseph about why gkrieg is voting for chairs
- Day2 - #455 votes joseph because people don't think chairs is scummy (PS vote counts around this time appear to be wrong as one has gkrieg voting for TA when he wasn't... makes it hard to go back and see the timing of all of this in terms of who was voting for who/when, but not sure it is all that important) soonish goes back to voting chairs.
- Day2 - #610 has a back and forth with joseph about the fake hammering thing, see below for more details
- Day2 - #638 agrees with me that he would be more likely to vote joseph if XP flips scum
- Day3 - #672 PoE list; removes Joseph "for that voting thing"
- Day3 - #690 combines himself with Joseph when talking about Teproc tunneling the two of them
- Day3 - #843 asks joseph why he thinks grkieg is scummy
- Day3 - #857 asks XP what he thinks of Joseph
reread Joseph:
- Day1 #86 - votes gkrieg (RVS)
- Day2 #297 - asks gkrieg if he was trying to kill the JK night1
- Day2 #300 - follows up above saying that saying what you were trying to do last night as scum makes it less scummy
- Day2 #606 - votes gkrieg, thinking he was the one who fake hammered calling it scummy, now prefers this lynch over egork
- Day2 615 - conversation with gkrieg about utility of fake hammers
- Day3 747 - thinks gkrieg's post about TA are ok
- Day3 749 - talks to gkrieg about his PoE, probes more about Teproc read
- Day3 753 - convesation with gkrieg about suspecting chairs because he is likely the JK
- Day3 763 - not sure about the XP lynch because he isn't sure about gkrieg who is pushing it
- Day3 764 - reads list, getting a scummy vibe on gkreig but votes TA
- Day3 765 - thinks scum team is TA/grkeig/hydrad
- Day3 827 - agrees with me on gkrieg being scummy, votes putting him at L-2 at time XP was at L-2 as well and his vote would have put him at L-1...
- Day4 871 - votes gkrieg off the bat before no lynch occurred
-
Ok: now actually talking about each of the four subsets:
Edmund-TA:
- big tie in due to edmund's claim. I could see edmund wanting to make his partner seem more townie, but in reality that only works if edmund isn't lynched today and if he is scum and isn't lynched today then that means town!gkrieg is getting lynch and the game is over, so in fact isn't very useful. If edmund is lynched as scum then it does nothing to help partner TA seem townier.
- Edmund maintains a townread on TA throughout the game after night1, so there is that...
- other point from reading is that at one point both Hydrad and TA were voting Edmund (I believe they were the only two voting through that whole time up until the end of day)
Edmund-Joseph:
- need to consider alternative of above in regard to TA that if this is the scum partner then Edmund is fakeclaiming the known town result on town!TA, likely in an attempt to get town!TA potentially on his side.
- Other big point: both Edmund and Joseph were voted by Hydrad later in the day2 during a semi-critical time. One is certainly possible, well two is possible as well, but is a bit more of a stretch.
gkrieg-TA:
- big point: gkrieg was pretty hard on reading TA starting day3, prior to that he was pretty townie on TA. But after day3 pushes for his lynch pretty hard. TA doesn't push back, just continues to read gkrieg as town. Like I said before I hadn't considered this previously as potential bussing (but would you do that immediately after learning about losing one of your partners during the night?), but it could be (given the hydrad death, I lean toward not). Would need to look at it a little bit closer...
gkrieg-Joseph:
- main point - joseph votes for gkrieg late day3 putting him at L-2, even with xerxes. At this time another vote on xerxes would have put him to L-1, but prior to that joseph had stated that he had a townier read on xerxes so a vote on him would have made him look suspicious. Could be bussing...
In the end there are some compelling arguments both for and against all of the options. Some less and some more. I think if I ranked them from most likely to least likely I would go, points in (parenthesis) are arguments against there being a partnership:
Edmund-TA (tie in with TA in fakeclaim result)>>>>>gkrieg-TA (bussing after hydrad's death)>>>>gkrieg-Joseph (putting gkreig at L-2)>>>>Edmund-Joseph (both votes by Hydrad here)
However, I still think gkrieg has actually been scummier in the game play. So that needs to be taken into consideration as well. But Edmund's claim I think is scummier (or at least more confusing)
I think that is all I am going to say for a while. I feel like everyone is sitting back and watching me put my thoughts out and I don't know if I like that. I am not going to say who I am going to vote for--honestly I am not sure yet--until there is some chatter among the other players at the very least... I don't want to get to a point where I state my vote preference and if I am wrong have mafia just sit back, say "yep" that looks good and go along with it...
-
OK:
Voyeur:
The Voyeur learns what actions were performed on a player, but not who targeted them.... If a Voyeur is somehow blocked from their action (by Roleblocker, Jailkeeper, Rolestopper, Ascetic, or Commuter), they should receive a "No Result" pm, rather than a "did not see anything" pm. A Voyeur would not see a Ninja committing a kill, however, and would receive a "did not see anything" pm in that case.
JK:
A Jailkeeper that simultaneously blocks and protects their target is considered Normal on mafiascum.net, provided that any mutual blocking scenarios are planned for during review. Any role that receives results (such as Tracker or Watcher) but is blocked should receive a "no result" message, rather than told their target didn't go anywhere or nobody visited their target.
gkrieg claim:
N1 silverspawn: Voyeur
N2 Teproc: no result. This is why I knew we had a JK, and why I was pretty sure it was chairs. Unfortunately my pushing of him didn't get us anywhere.
N3: I didn't make it in time. I realized that I couldn't really figure anything out anyway, because I don't get the names of the players.
N4 Teproc again: Factional Kill, Voyeur.
So,
night1 he is saying he targeted SS and only saw himself targeting SS.
night2 he is saying that he targeted Teproc but was jailkept himself (need to go back and see if this is consistent with what I just wrote... short term memory used to be a thing I had... in regard to chairs reads)
night3 - no action at all
night4 - he is saying he targeted Teproc and saw both himself and the night kill targeting Teproc
Edmund claim:
Night actions:
N1, watched TA, neapolitan.
N2, watched yuma, no visits.
N3, watched yuma again, jailkeeper.
N4, watched Teproc, killed.
So,
night1 - he is saying he targeted TA and saw the neapolitan visit TA, but doesn't mention himself
night2 - he is saying he targeted me but didn't see anyone visit me. If JKed I think he should have received "no result" if he was the only one who visited me then he should have seen himself.
night3 - he is saying he visited me and thought that I was JKed by chairs, but doesn't mention himself
night4 - he is saying he visited Teproc and saw him get killed, but doesn't mention himself.
So here is where I stand on this:
Edmund's claim is either fake or he didn't pay enough attention as he was putting it together because:
1. He never mentions himself in his investigation, which if faust correctly processed the night actions (which I am assuming he did cause faust is a good mod) then he should have received results about himself.
2. When JKed he should (again assuming faust followed mafia scum) have received "no result" instead of "no visits."
This makes me suspect Edmund quite a bit more just intrinsically on this. I think when claiming a true voyeur would make sure to get the details right rather than risk a possible misinterpretation. Whereas a fake claim he just might not have known any better if he hadn't done the prior research. Again, all of this is basing assumptions on the mod's ability to mod, but I think we have to base assumptions on that otherwise the whole point of the game collapses on itself. I would hate to lynch Edmund as the real voyeur who just didn't put enough attention into stating the results that were given him: not putting himself into the investigation results/stating the "no results" instead of summarizing "no visits"
So I am going to do a reread and look a bit more closely at possible partners as well as look into whether or not I think chairs would have JKed gkrieg Night2/me Night3, but right now just based off the claims I suspect Edmund quite a bit more.
PS: If I got anything wrong in the summaries, the two claimed voyeurs are free to correct me
And this is exactly why I think Edmund is scummier than Gkrieg. Gkrieg's actions could have happened, whereas Edmund's couldn't (barring a mod screwup, or Edmund not rwading results correctly, both of which seems unlikely).
-
So for me it's:
Scum: Edmund
Town: Gkrieg (I guess, if Edmund is scum), Joseph2302
Need to work out: TA, yuma
And the scum team is either Edmund/TA or Edmund/yuma.
-
Re-reading Edmund first. Specifically looking at:
-Interactions with Hydrad
-Interactions with Yuma/Joseph
-D2 actions and if they're consistent with his claimed night result
-
Edmund Re-read:
#158 - Vote on Yuma. First vote on Yuma. Let's see if there's any followup, if he doesn't push at all could be an attempt to get a bus in. Explanation in #163, calls vote opportunistic again.
#360 - Yuma is town. Second D2 post here (first was #293, didn't get much from it). Doesn't say anything about me. Says Yuma feels "relaxed and genuine" in #362. Reiterates that he found him scummy D1.
#434 - Comes out with town read on me, consistent with claim. Calls Joseph suspicious. Pushes Teproc on his Joseph read.
#474 - Says Yuma is either Vanilla mafia (less likely) or neighbor (more likely).
INTERESTING - Says he doesn't think mafia would "waste their blind in". Is this implying that he knew mafia took blend in, rather than one of the other powers?
#525 - Pushes Hydrad for reads.
#562 - Finding XP scummy for not taking a stance on Joseph.
#682 - TA bad lynch today (D3 posts now)
#719 - Edmund doesn't like case on Yuma
-
OK, I definitely find Edmund scummy off of this one. I also think his prodding of people to give an opinion on Joseph D2 makes them more unlikely partners.
Particularly interesting is #474. The wording on it is peculiar. It's quoted below:
Even if he is mafia, i dont think anyone would waste their blend in just to get neighbour and then kill of his neighbour partner. So he is either vanilla mafia (less likely) or neighbour (morr likely)
This is interesting to me. He's not saying I don't think mafia would choose blend in, he's saying I don't think mafia would waste their blend in -- implying that blend in was chosen over the 3 other powers. There's definitely a scum narrative that he knows mafia chose blend in N1. Which would also point to Yuma being the partner.
Overall, pretty scummy and I'm definitely leaning this way. Gkrieg re-read is up next, though.
-
Gkrieg reread
No contributions at all D1
#290 - Says other neighbor should claim to be confirmed town. Definitely fits in the context of Yuma/Gkrieg scumteam
#354 - Defends Hydrad from Yuma's post in #352
#443 - Yuma is scummy from D1. Says nothing about Joseph in his catch up post.
#445 - Votes for Joseph after saying nothing about him in his catchup post
#456 - Very possible to have single neighbor, contradicts his #290
#545 - Defends Hydrad again
#558 - Another Hydrad defense
#638 - Says he'll want to lynch Joseph D3 if Egor flips town (he does). Let's see if this is followed up.
#648 - Starts D3 voting me, not Joseph
#671 - Says there's not much use in analyzing Hydrad's posts
#672 - Removes Yuma "for the neighbor thing" - Contradicts #456. Removes Joseph "For the voting thing" (I'm assuming Hydrad-Joseph's votes on D2).
#843 - Question's Joseph's read/vote on gkrieg
#857 - Asks XP what he thinks of Joseph
-
So Gkrieg is also independently scummy...lots of Hydrad defenses. Then again I defended Hydrad for a lot of the same reasons, so it's possible he's town. But there's a definite town narrative.
Really though...biggest takeaway for me is once again I think if Gkrieg is scum, Gkrieg/Joseph is unlikely. D3 actions don't make a lot of sense, particularly after Hydrad's death. Particularly #843 makes me think it's unlikely.. I think that while scum do bus, they're less likely to try to prod others to the wagon. Towards the end of D3 I get the vibe of Gkrieg pushing towards Joseph's lynch and seeing if anyone is interested, and if others were he would have 100% lynched there.
Also the inconsistencies with his views on neighbors in #290, #456, #672 are interesting. He goes back and forth on whether or not Yuma should be exempt from lynch for these reasons.
Really my biggest thing from these re-reads is that Joseph is probably town and Yuma is probably scum.
-
Still undecided on Edmund/Gkrieg. Would be happy to lynch Yuma though, I'm more sure it's a correct lynch than I think I'll feel about Edmund or Gkrieg at any point today. I am definitely leaning one way but want to see everyone else's input today.
My next re-read will be Hydrad but I am taking a break for now.
Joseph, any opinions on lynching Yuma today?
-
Joseph, any opinions on lynching Yuma today?
I think lynching yuma or TA is the best option, as the scum one of them 2 is manipulating us a lot, so if we lynch correctly, it's easier tomorrow.
Need a reread of whether yuma or TA would be better though.
-
Really my biggest thing from these re-reads is that Joseph is probably town and Yuma is probably scum.
and I can easily say the same thing about you compared to Joseph. In fact I just did in a different way with the most likely partner scenarios I listed above...
-
Still undecided on Edmund/Gkrieg. Would be happy to lynch Yuma though, I'm more sure it's a correct lynch than I think I'll feel about Edmund or Gkrieg at any point today. I am definitely leaning one way but want to see everyone else's input today.
My next re-read will be Hydrad but I am taking a break for now.
Joseph, any opinions on lynching Yuma today?
really what I see here is that you are realizing that your partner (presumably Edmund I think, given my suspicion of him as well as Joseph's... see above) is about to be lynched over gkeirg and the only way to salvage this game is to try and convince town to lynch away from the voyeur claimers and get a mislynch on me instead...
-
I mean, I'm leaning Edmund, but it's pretty close. Honestly though I think I'd independently choose him, and I'd be willing to sheep Joseph on it, too. As long as Joseph gets sold on Edmund, there's really no way he's not lynched. I think Edmund/Yuma is probably most likely the team, I know you're going to claim it's Edmund/TA, so we could just easily lynch Edmund and then either take the loss if Gkrieg fooled me/Joseph and make the Yuma/TA question tomorrow.
Really though that's look like what it's coming down to.
-
The real question boils down to this I think in terms of figuring out from which group to lynch is:
Will lynching from Group V (for voyeur claimers) help us figure out the correct lynch from Group (N for not voyuer) more than lynching from Group N help us figure out the correct lynch from Group V?
Will lynching from Group V give us more information to help us lynch from Group N?
Will lynching from Group N give us more information to help us lynch from Group V?
Obviously, I think the answers to the bottom two questions are going to be yes, so it is in terms of how much information.
There was a similar situation in the last time we played switched mafia (not the current game, don't worry, but Mafia XV) where we kept the two claimed cops alive until the very end and worried about them later. There was a situation where somehow we ended up with an IC or something... somehow I can't remember exactly, so the situation isn't exactly the same here.
One thing I do like about lynching from Group N is that if we get it right this is going to force mafia to make a decision on the night kill, giving information, WIFOM information, but information none the less. Whereas if we lynch correct from Group V the night kill is obvious and thus doesn't provide any information.
In addition lynching from Group N, if correct will give us a virtual IC. In that one of the Group N players will be lynched (correctly), one will be Nked (town) and the remaining player will be an IC that effectively makes the final decision. I think I like that more than having two unknown (to each other townies) try and decide which one out of three is mafia...
-
I mean, I'm leaning Edmund, but it's pretty close. Honestly though I think I'd independently choose him, and I'd be willing to sheep Joseph on it, too. As long as Joseph gets sold on Edmund, there's really no way he's not lynched. I think Edmund/Yuma is probably most likely the team, I know you're going to claim it's Edmund/TA, so we could just easily lynch Edmund and then either take the loss if Gkrieg fooled me/Joseph and make the Yuma/TA question tomorrow.
Really though that's look like what it's coming down to.
This is what is worrying me. Instead of trying to figure out if lynching from which group is better. You were just stating that I should be lynched without showing whether or not lynching from our group is better or not. That makes me feel like you just want to lynch me for the mislynch and subsequent win for you. Rather than try and figure out if lynching from our group is actually best to actually win the game...
-
I would be against lynching anyone but Edmund. Even for the two townies of you three (meaning not me/Edmund), it is 50/50 me/Edmund and 50/50 the other two out of the three. You have the same odds either way, and if you lynch between me and Edmund, it comes down to tomorrow, where either I will be dead, or Joseph will be dead (he seems to be the towniest out of you guys). I'll give my other reads later today or tomorrow.
PPE: 2
-
I would be against lynching anyone but Edmund. Even for the two townies of you three (meaning not me/Edmund), it is 50/50 me/Edmund and 50/50 the other two out of the three. You have the same odds either way, and if you lynch between me and Edmund, it comes down to tomorrow, where either I will be dead, or Joseph will be dead (he seems to be the towniest out of you guys). I'll give my other reads later today or tomorrow.
PPE: 2
see my two points above about having to force mafia to make a decision in the kill and how if we are correct we get a virtual IC out of it...
I think those are two compelling arguments...
-
Let me put it from my perspective:
I know Edmund is scum. I would then have to choose from 3 people. I guess the upside is that if Edmund is forced to vote for someone, we get more information on where he puts his vote for the lynch. All I have to do is convince the not dead IC, that I am the real voyeur and we win! I need to think about it more, but I might be in for lynching among the 3 Ns.
-
Let me put it from my perspective:
I know Edmund is scum. I would then have to choose from 3 people. I guess the upside is that if Edmund is forced to vote for someone, we get more information on where he puts his vote for the lynch. All I have to do is convince the not dead IC, that I am the real voyeur and we win! I need to think about it more, but I might be in for lynching among the 3 Ns.
Sure I understand your perspective... or your forced perspective... whatever...
But the point is that town has to make two separate decisions to win this game
1. lynch correct from Group V
2. lynch correct from Group N
if the order is Group V and then Group N. The night kill becomes automatic. We don't get an information from it. Because mafia will just kill the real voyeur. The voyeur is an IC for a night. That is all. After the second lynch, if correct, an IC is created, but doesn't matter because the game is over...
if the order is Group N and then Group V. The night kill takes on meaning. Which of the two non-voyeurs gets killed? That is a decision mafia has to make and they might choose wrong. In addition an IC gets created.
I guess it depends on if you value having 2 out 3 of three townies try and find each other and zone out the lone mafia to come to a consensus more than having 1 known townie try to make a decision by himself. I think I prefer the 1 known townie making the decision. But I could be wrong about that...
-
I would be against lynching anyone but Edmund. Even for the two townies of you three (meaning not me/Edmund), it is 50/50 me/Edmund and 50/50 the other two out of the three. You have the same odds either way, and if you lynch between me and Edmund, it comes down to tomorrow, where either I will be dead, or Joseph will be dead (he seems to be the towniest out of you guys). I'll give my other reads later today or tomorrow.
PPE: 2
see my two points above about having to force mafia to make a decision in the kill and how if we are correct we get a virtual IC out of it...
I think those are two compelling arguments...
I don't know. I kinda feel that we're already making Joseph an IC, so if we lynch correctly, the kills are pretty straightforward?
Like, if you or I get lynched, we have 1 IC, and it's down to Edmund vs. Gkreig tomorrow.
If Edmund vs. Gkrieg gets lynched, the other gets killed, and it's down to Joseph/TA/Yuma tomorrow.
We have the same odds it's just the order in which we take them and I'm not sure I see a huge difference in that.
I think Gkrieg and Edmund stating their reads on the other players would be helpful though.
-
Let me put it from my perspective:
I know Edmund is scum. I would then have to choose from 3 people. I guess the upside is that if Edmund is forced to vote for someone, we get more information on where he puts his vote for the lynch. All I have to do is convince the not dead IC, that I am the real voyeur and we win! I need to think about it more, but I might be in for lynching among the 3 Ns.
My perspective is similar, just that I'm more sold on Yuma vs. Joseph. Obviously I'm not 100% like you are, but we all are coming at it from different perspectives...
That said I would rather lynch Edmund than you so it's not a bad compromise from my point of view.
-
I think there is a much larger difference between guaranteed IC and a reads based IC...
-
Right but I don't see the difference if we're lynching 1 out of 3 either?
If we lynch claim first then not claim we have...
1/2 chance with 2 town 1 scum deciding, then 1/3 chance with 2 town 1 scum deciding
If we lynch not claim first then claim we have...
1/3 chance with 3 town 2 scum deciding, then 1/2 chance with 2 town 1 scum deciding
The IC difference is whether or not one of the people deciding is IC or not...but if they're not in the lynch pool, how much does that really matter?
-
Like I said I have more confidence in an IC figuring out the correct decision on their own than two townies trying to find each other and come to a consensus with one scum whispering in their ear.
But I see what you are saying, which I kinda feel is the same thing just in different ways.
-
For the record, i didnt got a "no visits" pm, i was mentioning that i havent saw anyone visit you.
But did you get a pm stating that a voyeur, you, had visited me?
No. I already said it.
I am not going to apologize for wanting a clarification, I want to get this right. And you aren't exactly Mr. Super Clear...
So Edmund is saying that he didn't get a PM stating that he visited me on a night that he visited me.
So are you saying you were JKed on this night?
Because if you were, you should have received a "no result" PM. Did you get a PM that said "nor result" or did you get a PM that said "no visits"
I don't feel like it should be this hard to get a straightforward answer from you... Like I really have no idea what or did not happen during these claimed nights you are talking about
:-\
I didnt got a no visits pm.
I said it tons of times already all my posts are about it.
I said i didbt saw anyone visit (no result) so i put no vidits there.
-
:-\
I didnt got a no visits pm.
I said it tons of times already all my posts are about it.
I said i didbt saw anyone visit (no result) so i put no vidits there.
oy vey
-
DID YOU SEE YOURSELF VISIT ME? DID YOU SEE YOURSELF VISIT ANYONE?
-
I dont care which group we lynch from. But i would prefer lynching gkrieg because there is %100 confirmation hes scum while there is a %50 mislynch chance in not voyeurs and i cant say i know which one of them is scum.
PPE:
To first one, NO
To second, YES
Jfc i already said it
-
wait I am getting my head spinning... gkrieg was saying that he was jailed on night2 right?
Not that Teproc was jailed...
Whereas Edmund is seeming to state that no one visited me, but if Edmund visited me, then he should have seen himself...
Huh. I had also saw voyeur on every night except n2. JK probably jailed me.
-
I think we should vote out of the three today. I think Edmund should post his reads on the other three players. I will also post my reads.
PPE: how do you get a %50 mislynch chance? Shouldn't it be a %66?
-
Edmund didn't see himself visit people...
that is a direct contradiction of what the voyeur role does.
faust: Would a voyeur see himself as targeting the player that he voyeured?
-
faust: Would a voyeur see himself as targeting the player that he voyeured?
Yes.
-
1. gkrieg
4. chairs
5. yuma
6. Hydrad
7. EgorK
8. XerxesPraelor
9. Joseph2302
10. silverspawn
11. Edmund
12. Teproc
13. Twistedarcher
crossed out players who I feel have posted enough to not be considered a lurker... basically those that I can remember that are in the game based off remembering enough of their posts... if you feel you should have been included maybe you should have posted more... or posted more memorable quotes.
So that leaves Hydrad, EgorK, Xerxes, Joseph and Edmund as candidates: I'll do a quick reread of each and then a quick synopsis, then likely followed by a vote if my hypothesis is correct that there are some scummy lurkers here (I am pretty sure there are at least two even before starting this exercise)...
Hydrad: (32) nothing jumped out at me from his reread. Had one post that read as townyish annoyance in response to WW shutting down his theory talk day1, the last post I just quoted that he included ash/WW reads townie... really the only post that read scummy to me was an opportunistic vote on Edmund, but that is town hydrad to a T.
EgorK: (11) was VLA for most of day1 so nothing there, but VLA pass for that; had the uber scummy initial post at start of day2. other than that he has had posts where he asks people why they are voting for him and asks for opinions on Edmund but doesn't post any himself. I think a scumtell is often that mafia don't scumhunt very much, but I am not sure I have ever seen them not scumhunt completely. Like Egork seems like he could care less about finding scum... or maybe it is that he just isn't very interested in playing this game?
Xerxes: (26) day was almost exclusively theory talk, but again abbreviated day1 I don't really mind that... His day2 posts have been pretty good I think when he has posted in having decent reasons for voting chairs, egork and putting out some opinions. Nothing that is egregiously scummy or townie
Joseph: (34) only thing of note was an opportunistic vote on me for putting ash at L-1 early. had the weird exchange with chairs that chairs ended up getting some heat for, but joseph deserved some as well (or did he get some already). had the 1 of TA/yuma is scum moment (if joseph is scum then I am thinking TA is town as this looks like a setting up TA moment) and has had way too many "people always think I am scummy" defensive moments
Edmund: (20) also had an opportunistic vote on me for putting ash to L-1 early, at least his looked more like a policy vote, so maybe less opportunistic and more annoyed? I like that he is asking scumhunting questions of people. As a newbie that feels more townie than scummy as I know that when I was scum putting myself out there and asking questions meant i was putting myself out there and would get unwanted attention.
so at this point I would be hesitant to lynch: edmund, hydrad
not super thrilled about: xexres
ready and willing: joseph and egork
I could still consider chairs/gkrieg, but I don't really consider them lurkers even if their post counts have been a bit lower, I feel like they have still been pretty involved.
So I'll keep my vote on Egork, but would vote for Joseph and maaaaybe xerxes but I dont' prefer him at all...
This post is something that needs to be looked at. Yuma finds Edmund and Hydrad as the lurkers that he won't lynch...
-
This post is something that needs to be looked at. Yuma finds Edmund and Hydrad as the lurkers that he won't lynch...
Ok. You looked at it. Now what do you deduce? I know what I deduce from it, but I know my alignment...
-
I really want Edmund's reads before I make my decision.
-
faust: Would a voyeur see himself as targeting the player that he voyeured?
Yes.
Ok. well then there we have it. Voyeur should see himself. Edmund didn't see himself
+
The contradictory idea that Edmund is suggesting that I was JKed by chairs on Night3, when chairs seemed much, much more likely to JK one of gkreig/TA
+
gkrieg's not realizing there wans't a neapolitan
+
Edmund/TA being the most likely scum partnership
I am ready to vote but I too want to hear Edmund's reads mostly because I believe they will be the forced reads of a scum who will be forced to put something out about a partner that will provide information to us.
I really don't think another vote should be cast until we hear this as I would be worried about Edmund self voting just so he didn't have to do it...
-
I really want Edmund's reads before I make my decision.
Before you make your decision about what?
-
I really want Edmund's reads before I make my decision.
Before you make your decision about what?
That makes not a lot of sense, since you know he's opposite alignment to you.
-
? We are choosing who to lynch out of you three and I know he is scum and want to get more information before I vote, which would be by getting his reads. I'm right now between yuma and TA. I just don't think Joseph is scum.
-
? We are choosing who to lynch out of you three and I know he is scum and want to get more information before I vote, which would be by getting his reads. I'm right now between yuma and TA. I just don't think Joseph is scum.
I am sorry, I got confused. I thought you were saying before you wanted to decide whether or not to lynch Edmund and since you should know you wanted to lynch Edmund that didn't add up.
-
It's totally Yuma/Edmund
-
It's totally Yuma/Edmund
totally not.
-
It's totally Yuma/Edmund
totally not.
It's totally Edmund and one of yuma/TA.
I still want to lynch one of yuma/TA first, leaving the easy lynch for tomorrow.
-
Edmund didn't see himself visit people...
that is a direct contradiction of what the voyeur role does.
faust: Would a voyeur see himself as targeting the player that he voyeured?
...
I did, i said it a shitton of times already jesus christ.
Whatever, peace , i ssid my part and i feel like a broken record saying the same things
-
It's totally Yuma/Edmund
totally not.
It's totally Edmund and one of yuma/TA.
I still want to lynch one of yuma/TA first, leaving the easy lynch for tomorrow.
Well convince me that you are town first... I think you probably are, but that has all been my work on reread. If we are going to go this route into a TA vs yuma thing, then I think you should put in a little work to show whether or not you are town as well...
Cause right now I think you are town, but I don't know if that is enough to want to just let you just decide that this lynch is between me and TA...
-
Edmund didn't see himself visit people...
that is a direct contradiction of what the voyeur role does.
faust: Would a voyeur see himself as targeting the player that he voyeured?
...
I did, i said it a shitton of times already jesus christ.
Whatever, peace , i ssid my part and i feel like a broken record saying the same things
you are broken record. I can't understand what you are saying over and over and over again.
I am sorry if it is a language thing, but I legitimately can't tell what you are trying to say most of the time.
Don't get mad for us wanting to try and understand you and asking for clarification when we don't understand... If that is the attitude you are going to take then what is the point of playing the game?
-
and still no reads...
-
and still no reads...
I've been busy, now tired/tipsy. Will do stuff on here tomorrow.
-
and still no reads...
I've been busy, now tired/tipsy. Will do stuff on here tomorrow.
wasn't referring to you...
was referring to Mr. Whatever Peace
-
k
gkrieg: scum
twistedarcher: town
yuma: slightly scummy, but has a higher chance of flipping town that joseph does. Needless wall of texts though...
Joseph: really i feel like hes just riding the wagon of freelo. inactive and saying ''lynch edmund'' and nothing else. This is a point where town is supposed to be much more active but noope lurk
-
k
gkrieg: scum
twistedarcher: town
yuma: slightly scummy, but has a higher chance of flipping town that joseph does. Needless wall of texts though...
Joseph: really i feel like hes just riding the wagon of freelo. inactive and saying ''lynch edmund'' and nothing else. This is a point where town is supposed to be much more active but noope lurk
I work 5 days a week away from home, so I've been busy. Not my fault that it was night when I was free (at the weekend).
-
k
gkrieg: scum
twistedarcher: town
yuma: slightly scummy, but has a higher chance of flipping town that joseph does. Needless wall of texts though...
Joseph: really i feel like hes just riding the wagon of freelo. inactive and saying ''lynch edmund'' and nothing else. This is a point where town is supposed to be much more active but noope lurk
Also, my top scumread thinks that TA is town, and yuma is scummy- that's interesting.
-
It's totally Yuma/Edmund
totally not.
It's totally Edmund and one of yuma/TA.
I still want to lynch one of yuma/TA first, leaving the easy lynch for tomorrow.
Well convince me that you are town first... I think you probably are, but that has all been my work on reread. If we are going to go this route into a TA vs yuma thing, then I think you should put in a little work to show whether or not you are town as well...
Cause right now I think you are town, but I don't know if that is enough to want to just let you just decide that this lynch is between me and TA...
Because I'm not playing like my usual scum self, which usually gives away at some point that I'm scummy.
D1- was on ash mislynch, but it's D1
D2- was on Egor mislynch, but that day was like another D1 (not much info)
D3- wasn't on XP mislynch
D4- wasn't on the no lynch, but would have been if active at the time
Start of D5: my posts (e.g. #892) helped get clarification on why Edmund is almost certainly scummy
-
We have 3 days left. I'm ready to vote...probably for Edmund.
-
We have 3 days left. I'm ready to vote...probably for Edmund.
I could do an Edmund lynch for sure.
-
It's totally Yuma/Edmund
totally not.
It's totally Edmund and one of yuma/TA.
I still want to lynch one of yuma/TA first, leaving the easy lynch for tomorrow.
Well convince me that you are town first... I think you probably are, but that has all been my work on reread. If we are going to go this route into a TA vs yuma thing, then I think you should put in a little work to show whether or not you are town as well...
Cause right now I think you are town, but I don't know if that is enough to want to just let you just decide that this lynch is between me and TA...
Because I'm not playing like my usual scum self, which usually gives away at some point that I'm scummy.
D1- was on ash mislynch, but it's D1
D2- was on Egor mislynch, but that day was like another D1 (not much info)
D3- wasn't on XP mislynch
D4- wasn't on the no lynch, but would have been if active at the time
Start of D5: my posts (e.g. #892) helped get clarification on why Edmund is almost certainly scummy
That is nice.... But like I said, I think you are town. But I don't think that I think that the above is enough make me want to let you make this a me vs TA thing right now...
The one thing that I think would make me feel better about you is if Edmund flipped scum. I don't see you two being partners the way Hydrad interacted with the two of you. One of you... I can see. Two of you no... So I think I, personally have more to gain from learning if Edmund is scum about you... And if Edmund is town... well then we lost, but sometimes you have to make assumptions in this game.
So I think right now I want an Edmund lynch. If we get scum, I feel much better about you. If we get town... well GG gkrieg and whichever one of you and TA is mafia...
-
We have 3 days left. I'm ready to vote...probably for Edmund.
I could do an Edmund lynch for sure.
Well everyone wants to vote for Edmund. Gkrieg already is. You two can go ahead and vote if you want as I don't think it really matters at this point. If Edmund is scum then obviously his partner is bussing at this point... Although a hammer would get me a little bit closer to the high number ash keeps totting around...
-
Vote: Edmund
-
Vote: Edmund
Here goes nothing!
hammer, hammer, hammer, hammer....
vote: edmund
-
Did you just win TA?
-
Day 5 Final Vote Count
gkrieg13 (1): Edmund
Edmund (3): gkrieg13, Twistedarcher, yuma
Not Voting (1): Joseph2302
With 5 alive, it took 3 to lynch.
-
Christie changes sides - Republicans outraged
In a much-anticipated speech held last night, Republican presidential candidate Chris Christie sent shockwaves throughout the political landscape as he announced that he would switch to the Democratic party.
"It grieves me to see the state of our once grand party", said Christie. "After everything we had to endure these past few months, we should stand closer together. Instead everyone's mind seems to be poisoned by hate and mistrust." Christie expressed hope that maybe one day, the Republican party would find back to its values. "Until then, I see no possible way but to leave the Republicans and side with people who try to represent all Americans."
The Republican party reacted infuriated. "We all knew that the Obama-hugger had sympathies for the enemy", said Carly Fiorina. "That he is also a filthy traitor hardly surprises me." Mike Huchabee added: "If Senator Christie does not love America, he should leave. I hear there's a lot of space in Russia. Or, there is this nice town in Cuba, what's it called? Guantanamo?"
Edmund has been lynched! He was Chris Christie, the Vanilla Russian Agent!
Night 5 starts now and ends in 48 hours. All night actions are due until then.
-
Jeb Bush drops out of presidential race - only 3 candidates left
Jeb Bush, who has remained in the race as the only moderate candidate, has announced that he would drop out of the presidential race. This came as a surprise to many commentators, as the long struggling campaign seemed to have finally picked up steam.
Recent results had Bush close up on frontrunner Carly Fiorina. Many moderate Republicans looked to Bush as the only possible choice in a field of hardliners. The announcement therefore came as a big surprise to the party.
"After careful consideration, I have decided that it is in the best interest of both me and the Republican party that I end my campaign", said Bush last evening. "I want to apologize to my supporters."
Rumors suggest that Bush has been blackmailed, even though Bush himself denied such allegations.
gkrieg13 has been killed. He was Jeb Bush, the Town-aligned Voyeur.
Day 6 begins!
Vote Count 6.0
Not Voting (3): Joseph2302, Twistedarcher, yuma
With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch. Day 6 ends November 16 at 11 am forum time.
-
So, anticipating the three of us being left at today's start I reread Joseph during the night.
And like I said before. I can't see him being partners with Edmund.
This interaction is just too much for me to fathom:
Edmund-Joseph possible partner interactions:
Ok, so main point here is how both relate to Hydrad. Both were placed by Teproc's analysis on the townier side due to how Hydrad interacted with them. For this to work it would mean that hydrad placed votes on both partners basically right next to each other at a semi-critical time during day2.
I just have a hard time seeing Hydrad play that way with partners. Obviously, he did with Edmund. That is known, and that was the safer vote out of the two. But would he turn around and then vote in a more critical situation on another partner? I don't think so. What benefit is there for that? More than anything else this makes me want to think Joseph is town. Add in that Joseph's response to Edmund was townier than TA's, along with TA's just general desire to get me mislynched and other stuff... but I'll save that for later.
So at this point I am willing to bank the game on Joseph being town. If I am wrong. Then I am wrong, GG joseph, and especially Hydrad! If I am right, then my focus is going to be to show Joseph that I am town compared to TA. But I am going to save that effort and energy for later. I want to make sure Joseph is town first before spending a bunch of time on this.
So Joseph if you are scum, here is your chance to hammer and win...
vote: TA
please don't win and make me be wrong again in mylo...
-
So Joseph if you are scum, here is your chance to hammer and win...
vote: TA
please don't win and make me be wrong again in mylo...
I'm town
-
And like I suspected, TA and yuma are going to vote for each other, meaning it's up to me to win/lose this game.
-
So Joseph if you are scum, here is your chance to hammer and win...
vote: TA
please don't win and make me be wrong again in mylo...
I'm town
Ok. Good. Phew...
-
I am at work now so at some point in the next day or so I'll put together a "why you should vote for TA over me" post...
-
I am at work now so at some point in the next day or so I'll put together a "why you should vote for TA over me" post...
Sure, and I'm sure TA will do the reverse post.
For now, I'm just going to be writing lots of things to see if it helps me decide.
-
Post Count: yuma 191 (201 including UoS posts)
TA: 91
Confirms what I thought- yuma has done a lot more posting this game.
D1: both yuma and TA on mislynch
D2: yuma on mislynch, TA wasn't
D3: both yuma and TA on mislynch
D4: both yuma and TA voted no lynch
D5: both yuma and TA voted on good lynch, hammered by yuma
So not a lot of difference there...
-
D1: both yuma and TA on mislynch
D2: yuma on mislynch, TA wasn't
D3: both yuma and TA on mislynch
D4: both yuma and TA voted no lynch
D5: both yuma and TA voted on good lynch, hammered by yuma
So not a lot of difference there...
I tend to almost always be on lynch wagons, regardless of alignment. Either because I start them or because I am easily persuaded...?? I hope not... Probably mostly because I am extremely active and around and use my vote accordingly
See the latest game for example: fanfiction where I was town
D1: on mislynch wagon (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13859.msg526154#msg526154)
D2: on mislynch wagon (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13859.msg527201#msg527201)
D3: on no lynch wagon (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13859.msg528796#msg528796)
D4: on mislynch wagon (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13859.msg530065#msg530065)
But I tend to do the same thing as scum, so I don't necessarily think that it should be indicative of my alignment. At least this time around it is impossible for me to be on a mislynch wagon, unless I vote for myself... which I certainly am not going to do...
-
Vote: Yuma
Cool, glad I don't have to re-read Joseph on the off-chance he was actually scum.
-
OK here's the biggest reason why Yuma is mafia. There's others that I will find upon re-read to convince you I'm sure but this scumslip (hey scumslips are an actual thing) points directly at Yuma:
Even if he is mafia, i dont think anyone would waste their blend in just to get neighbour and then kill of his neighbour partner. So he is either vanilla mafia (less likely) or neighbour (morr likely)
Interpretation: Mafia 100% have a blend in rather than another power. The wording makes this pretty obvious, it's their blend in, not one of the other 3 powers.
Yuma claimed neighbor beginning of D2. The mafia absolutely used blend in N1, Yuma absolutely chose Neighbor, and has been using it. Hydrad or Edmund didn't try to use it to fakeclaim, Edmund's fake claim was separate. The third mafia is going to use it, that's why it's there, no way they pick the power and then don't use it all game.
Yuma's the mafia blending in as a Neighbor, Edmund slipped that they have that power.
-
I've had a gut scum read on Yuma for awhile now, glad to see that it turned out to be true. I'll see if I can put that into words for you. Basically though he's not coming to conclusions that he would as town. When town he makes a lot of sense and everything is clear and straightforward. He couldn't emulate that as scum this game, I'll see if I can put this into a more clear argument and give you some examples for this.
-
Obv. I hope you lynch correctly Joseph, good luck I don't envy your position. Personally I am happy I had a correct scum read on Yuma and correctly picked out Yuma, my reads have been off awhile so I'll take solace in that even in a loss. Good luck.
-
Oh, and Edmund's fake claim was totally Yuma-crafted. I found it way more likely to be Yuma-crafted than Joseph-crafted, and it was another reason why you were towny. It also pointed towards me as the partner, not towards Yuma -- scum never fake claim innocent results on their partners, but I suppose you can argue that's WIFOM too.
-
Man I was thinking about this on the metro saturday after the lynch and I had like 5-6 points as to why Yuma was scum and what I was going to argue..now I can only remember about half of them. Hopefully some of them will come back to me on re-read.
-
Joseph, do you want me to do a full re-read on Yuma and post the results here? If you do I suppose I will, but honestly if it's not going to impact your decision much and you're planning on doing your re-read I think I will pass..because I know he's scum, and it will take awhile, and if it's not going to have an impact I'd rather not waste all that time.
-
OK here's the biggest reason why Yuma is mafia. There's others that I will find upon re-read to convince you I'm sure but this scumslip (hey scumslips are an actual thing) points directly at Yuma:
Even if he is mafia, i dont think anyone would waste their blend in just to get neighbour and then kill of his neighbour partner. So he is either vanilla mafia (less likely) or neighbour (morr likely)
Interpretation: Mafia 100% have a blend in rather than another power. The wording makes this pretty obvious, it's their blend in, not one of the other 3 powers.
Yuma claimed neighbor beginning of D2. The mafia absolutely used blend in N1, Yuma absolutely chose Neighbor, and has been using it. Hydrad or Edmund didn't try to use it to fakeclaim, Edmund's fake claim was separate. The third mafia is going to use it, that's why it's there, no way they pick the power and then don't use it all game.
Yuma's the mafia blending in as a Neighbor, Edmund slipped that they have that power.
there should be meme here...
You know, the cheesy guy with the stupid grin and ball cap...
On the top: "biggest reasons someone is mafia"
On the bottom: "scumslip"
-
Oh, and Edmund's fake claim was totally Yuma-crafted. I found it way more likely to be Yuma-crafted than Joseph-crafted, and it was another reason why you were towny. It also pointed towards me as the partner, not towards Yuma -- scum never fake claim innocent results on their partners, but I suppose you can argue that's WIFOM too.
Is this supposed to be insulting as well as fabricated?
Edmund's fake claim was possibly one of the worst fake claims I have ever seen on this site.... Do you remember how poorly he crafted it? That was ultimately a main reason he was lynched, Joseph and I coming to the conclusion that his claim just didn't make sense on so many levels.
Do you think that if I crafted something that it would have been better executed? You have better believe it...
-
OK here's the biggest reason why Yuma is mafia. There's others that I will find upon re-read to convince you I'm sure but this scumslip (hey scumslips are an actual thing) points directly at Yuma:
Even if he is mafia, i dont think anyone would waste their blend in just to get neighbour and then kill of his neighbour partner. So he is either vanilla mafia (less likely) or neighbour (morr likely)
Interpretation: Mafia 100% have a blend in rather than another power. The wording makes this pretty obvious, it's their blend in, not one of the other 3 powers.
Yuma claimed neighbor beginning of D2. The mafia absolutely used blend in N1, Yuma absolutely chose Neighbor, and has been using it. Hydrad or Edmund didn't try to use it to fakeclaim, Edmund's fake claim was separate. The third mafia is going to use it, that's why it's there, no way they pick the power and then don't use it all game.
Yuma's the mafia blending in as a Neighbor, Edmund slipped that they have that power.
there should be meme here...
You know, the cheesy guy with the stupid grin and ball cap...
On the top: "biggest reasons someone is mafia"
On the bottom: "scumslip"
OK, instead of disputing the idea in general, try disputing this specific one. Don't straw man it, look at the actual argument. Imagine I didn't use the word "scumslip"
Are you saying that this doesn't imply mafia took the blend in power?
Or are you saying that this implies mafia did take the blend in power, but that it doesn't implicate you?
Joseph, look at this, he's not arguing against the post which implicates him, he's just trying to invalidate it by arguing against scum slips in general. He knows how terrible Edmund's post makes him look.
-
Joseph, do you want me to do a full re-read on Yuma and post the results here? If you do I suppose I will, but honestly if it's not going to impact your decision much and you're planning on doing your re-read I think I will pass..because I know he's scum, and it will take awhile, and if it's not going to have an impact I'd rather not waste all that time.
Actually I kinda feel the same way about this. If my input is wanted/desired/needed I am happy to give it. But if Joseph is going to come to a decision regardless of what/TA say then I too would rather not waste all that time.
-
Oh, and Edmund's fake claim was totally Yuma-crafted. I found it way more likely to be Yuma-crafted than Joseph-crafted, and it was another reason why you were towny. It also pointed towards me as the partner, not towards Yuma -- scum never fake claim innocent results on their partners, but I suppose you can argue that's WIFOM too.
Is this supposed to be insulting as well as fabricated?
Edmund's fake claim was possibly one of the worst fake claims I have ever seen on this site.... Do you remember how poorly he crafted it? That was ultimately a main reason he was lynched, Joseph and I coming to the conclusion that his claim just didn't make sense on so many levels.
Do you think that if I crafted something that it would have been better executed? You have better believe it...
I don't think that Joseph/Edmund team fake claims anything
-
OK, instead of disputing the idea in general, try disputing this specific one. Don't straw man it, look at the actual argument. Imagine I didn't use the word "scumslip"
Are you saying that this doesn't imply mafia took the blend in power?
Or are you saying that this implies mafia did take the blend in power, but that it doesn't implicate you?
Joseph, look at this, he's not arguing against the post which implicates him, he's just trying to invalidate it by arguing against scum slips in general. He knows how terrible Edmund's post makes him look.
I know it doesn't implicate me or make me look terrible because I am not scum. But sure, let's go through this.
Context is important:
So the context is regarding Teproc doing some talking about PRs, specifically me.
Speaking of disageeing with yuma, while I think he greatly underestimates the value for scum to be a neighbor, and completely glosses over the fact that he wouldn't need his other partner to confirm his claim - his claim is foolproof just because no one has counterclaimed - he is still right that it doesn't quite add up. Scum!yuma blending in and picking Neighbor is actually typically what I'd expect from him, but why kill WW immediately ? Why not wait at least a day and see if he can manipulate him a bit (one of the main points of going for Neighbor).
Basically : we know for sure yuma is a Neighbor. Unless WW could have been a Neighbor alone ? Too lazy to check the setup, but I doubt that'd be possible, so yuma has to be telling the truth since we haven't seen a counterclaim. He could be scum telling the truth, but that doesn't quite make sense either because of WW's death.
Now Teproc does make some faulty conclusions here. Specifically he forgets that it is possible that WW could have been Neighbor by himself. But that doesn't change what he was ultimately talking about. He was talking about the idea that I was a Neighbor, either via getting the PR legitimately as town, or by blending in.
You then came in and made a post in response to that...
I don't really count the claim in my read on Yuma honestly. He could easily be lying (unlikely) or a scum neighbor (more likely). PRs are pretty unverifiable and aren't counting into my reads all that much this game.
You too follow this approach in hypothesizing that either I am lying or am a scum neighbor (thus using the blend in).
Edmund then says this:
Even if he is mafia, i dont think anyone would waste their blend in just to get neighbour and then kill of his neighbour partner. So he is either vanilla mafia (less likely) or neighbour (morr likely)
So he is talking about the hypothetical situation that you and Teproc introduced that I am mafia that used the blend in ability. And he is saying that if mafia in fact had the blend in ability it would be wasteful to use it on Neighbor. He isn't stating that mafia certainly have the blend in. He is following the course of the conversation. So I don't think it implies that there is a blend in, nor is there an implication that I chose the blend in ability.
I don't know what mafia chose. Maybe they chose blend in. Maybe they chose one of the others. Maybe you chose blend in as mafia! And I voted for you! Joseph who did you vote for? Any chance it was TA? That could explain something... Long shot I guess... but it could...
-
Oh, and Edmund's fake claim was totally Yuma-crafted. I found it way more likely to be Yuma-crafted than Joseph-crafted, and it was another reason why you were towny. It also pointed towards me as the partner, not towards Yuma -- scum never fake claim innocent results on their partners, but I suppose you can argue that's WIFOM too.
Is this supposed to be insulting as well as fabricated?
Edmund's fake claim was possibly one of the worst fake claims I have ever seen on this site.... Do you remember how poorly he crafted it? That was ultimately a main reason he was lynched, Joseph and I coming to the conclusion that his claim just didn't make sense on so many levels.
Do you think that if I crafted something that it would have been better executed? You have better believe it...
I don't think that Joseph/Edmund team fake claims anything
We aren't talking about a possible Joseph/Edmund team anyway. What are you trying to say with this post?
-
Here is the meme... for future generations to use!
(https://i.imgflip.com/tvzlf.jpg)
-
oh, wow, that was really big.
should have made it smaller... sorry!
-
Here is the meme... for future generations to use!
(https://i.imgflip.com/tvzlf.jpg)
So do you take this back after the game?
I also thought you were mafia for a lot of the game...
-
Whatever man...this is just pissing me off honestly. I figured out the game, I won, now every post you are making just is making me angry. I know it shouldn't because you need to rile me up and fool Joseph when the odds are stacked against you, but man, I wish you wouldn't resort to this bullshit.
I'm out, Joseph poke me if you need me to make an argument or something.
-
why would i take it back after the game....
You are the one who said it. The biggest part of a case should pretty much never be a so-called scumslip... If that is all you got you are either town doing it wrong or scum doing it wrong, but desperate. In this case you are desperate scum.
-
Whatever man...this is just pissing me off honestly. I figured out the game, I won, now every post you are making just is making me angry. I know it shouldn't because you need to rile me up and fool Joseph when the odds are stacked against you, but man, I wish you wouldn't resort to this bullshit.
I'm out, Joseph poke me if you need me to make an argument or something.
Sorry, didn't mean to make angry regardless of alignment. Although I do stand by the idea that using a scumslip as a main point is not the greatest way to approach scumhunting
-
actually you know what...
No. I never intended to make you mad. At all. Making a single meme is insulting and "bullshit"? That is ridiculous....
You are taking this too far and it isn't charitable to me in any situation... It is one post before which I intelligently and purposefully explained how the situation wasn't what you are trying to make it out to be... I don't get the anger (fake or real)
-
Vote Count 6.1
Twistedarcher (1): yuma
yuma (1): Twistedarcher
Not Voting (1): Joseph2302
With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch. Day 6 ends November 16 at 11 am forum time.
-
So I had a conversation with faust, asking him whether or not I crossed a line in regard to the civility pledge. He was very clear in stating that I had not crossed the line, or come close to crossing it. I asked because sometimes, in the past, I have become too aggressive or too demeaning or too demanding of people and have a hard time seeing it. If I had I wanted to know from a non-biased source. He didn't think that was the case here and neither do I.
However, that doesn't mean that TA isn't feeling what he is feeling. I mean really, in this situation there are two options from my perspective (the other two are from Joseph's perspective that TA is town and lying or TA is town and is feeling what he is feeling, but I know those other two aren't true). One TA is scum and is faking what he is feeling or two TA is scum and is feeling what he is feeling.
I believe that emotions on this game should be assumed to be real. So I do think TA is annoyed and angry with me. That is unfortunate and I am sorry for it, but I have to think that those feelings are more feelings of frustration that he has a really good chance of losing and annoyance that he points that he brings up I am both belittling and shooting down through context based posting. If he is legitimately angry with me then I hope he can see that he shouldn't be, that my posts weren't intended to hurt or make him angry, but were meant to be silly and a simple joke.
So to be clear, I don't think that what I posted was hurtful or offensive and it certainly wasn't meant to be that way. It was meant to be silly and poke fun at a concept (scumslips) but not at an individual that I think scum relies on using more than town. I think this also shows that TA doesn't have much confidence in his points on me (cause they don't exist and he is stretching) to the point that he isn't willing to overcome the negative emotion that he is feeling to put forward the necessary work. Which is fine, but I think it just illustrates further why he is the last remaining mafia.
-
Look, if you really think we should talk about this, let's talk about it post-game. Right now everything is just you trying to manipulate things for your scum win condition. I'm not holding it personally against you, I just don't want to talk to someone who has to manipulate everything I say to win the game. I don't have any problems with you personally, and you're playing to your win condition, so you're cool.
-
Look, if you really think we should talk about this, let's talk about it post-game. Right now everything is just you trying to manipulate things for your scum win condition. I'm not holding it personally against you, I just don't want to talk to someone who has to manipulate everything I say to win the game. I don't have any problems with you personally, and you're playing to your win condition, so you're cool.
But how is what you are doing above not manipulative? You are trying to paint me in a bad light, as the jerk, as the mean spirited curmudgeon, so that hopefully Joseph will have a bias against me and vote for me over you. That is manipulative. Rather than actually address the game play and the interactions with others, you just want to make me look bad--and really over what? A silly meme? Or you legitimately feel bad, but you are still painting me in a bad light. Instead of bringing up all those "legitimate" points you thought of on your metro ride...
Granted Joseph hasn't said if he wants us to do that stuff, but you kinda threw in the towel regardless of what he said and don't seem interested in doing that at all. It makes me feel like you are giving up on trying to make me look scummy and instead are just trying to make me look like a jerk.
But sure, we can talk about it after the game. But I don't know if I will have much to say as I don't feel that I have been saying things that should be considered hurtful, and neither does faust the mod.
-
So, only game I remember TA being scum was M63 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13318.0;all), and looking at that, he got lynched D1, and I'm not even sure how.
Haven't played with yuma as scum.
-
So, only game I remember TA being scum was M63 (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13318.0;all), and looking at that, he got lynched D1, and I'm not even sure how.
Haven't played with yuma as scum.
yeah... I was kinda MIA from the forum when you started to play more. There are plenty of games to look at me as scum in the long ago past, but honestly... I don't necessarily think that rereading them would do much good. I would rather you look at a previous game where I am town and correlate that to me as town this time. If that is the route you want to take, look at Fanfiction Mafia, which I referenced earlier.
-
I'd recommend reading this game before reading others tbh, if you haven't done that already.
-
I'd recommend reading this game before reading others tbh, if you haven't done that already.
Ya think?
-
I'd recommend reading this game before reading others tbh, if you haven't done that already.
Ya think?
I do
-
I'd recommend reading this game before reading others tbh, if you haven't done that already.
Ya think?
I do
I have reread this game, and it confuses me, so I'm going to reread it some more.
-
and now there is a finished game where I was mafia that you can also read (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13958.msg540632;topicseen#msg540632) although I guess you could have read it before (I was lynched day2), but I didn't want to reference it until it was finished.
I think that if you read it and read this game and compare you will see that I acted significantly different there as mafia compared to town here...
-
Man, this game is messing with my head. Listening to NPR this morning about the most recent Republican debate and they had a clip quoting Ted Cruz.
I thought to myself, I thought that Ted Cruz had dropped from the race. Wonder where I got that bad info from?
Between this and the election campaign blocking Chrome extension I have installed I no idea what is going on in that primary election...
-
posting for the post every 24 hour rule...
-
posting for the post every 24 hour rule...
-
posting for the post every 24 hour rule...
-
posting for the post every 24 hour rule...
Nonono. We should be doing this because we don't have the decision to make. What are you waiting on? :/
-
TA:
#49- claimed VT (although all good people were VT then)
D1- wants us to have a plan for N1 and stick to it, lots and lots of setup talk. Possibly scummy, since it's the best time for scum to mess with our heads, and limit the PRs we get
D2- started off getting confused by pointless me/chairs argument
#422-429- disagrees with yuma on what Egor was saying, with hindsight he probably was right (as Egor is town).
#430- I said that 1 of yuma and TA is scum, hey look I was right!
#446- "I'm fine lynching Edmund"-interesting
#472- suddenly wants to lynch yuma, me or Egor, despite the above (hedging bets?)
#516- flips back to voting Edmund
#658- I thought TA might be scum, not so sure about that on a proper reread though
D3- immediately votes Teproc
lots of arguments with Yuma too e.g. c.#700-710, but then votes XP #742
#835- says Edmund is town
D4- first to vote no lynch
D5- defends Edmund after I/gkrieg call his claims out, #893
#942-6- now finds Edmund scummy, tries to get me to support yuma lynch instead though
#995- puts Edmund on L-1
D6- voted Yuma, then this crazy argument with yuma above
PPE:1
-
posting for the post every 24 hour rule...
Nonono. We should be doing this because we don't have the decision to make. What are you waiting on? :/
I was waiting to check that I had enough time now to contribute. Turns out I do.
-
Also, TA/Edmund interactions are edging me towards scummy, especially the constant flips between "Edmund is scummy" and "Edmund is towny"
-
yuma:
D1- starts with RV based on some other game, #81
#139- RV on Edmund
#140- anti-plan
#147- goes on wagon
Put someone unannounced on L1 early
#192- defends ash for being anti-plan
D2-#348- claims Neighbour (WW the neighbour was already dead, not counterclaimed)
#379- annoyed with ash, makes sense
#380- also confused by the me/chairs pointless argument
#422-429- disagrees with TA on what Egor was saying, with hindsight Egor was town
#436- doesn't like that I think 1 of TA/yuma is scum (I was right though!)
#483- intent to hammer me is not good, no real argument for it. And then backpedals quickly
#535- Hydrad & Edmund both on his possible scum list of 5 players
Then some meta/olg-game arguments that don't seem relevant
#581- calls Edmund "pretty towny"
#594- tried to hammer Egor (failed due to a repeat vote)
#c.600- confused with me because I'm silly and didn't read things properly
#621- goes back to Egor mislynch
D3- almost dismisses the babysitter kill thing-#649
#669- me and Edmund townier , as Hydrad voted for both of us
#c.700- annoyed with my VLA/not really contributing, kind of fair enough
#704- takes Edmund out of lynch pool (and TA also)
#c.715- yuma/Ta interactions
#770- doesn't like my logic for not lynching XP (town)
#c.800- lots of discussion about if XP is scum
#855- L-1 on XP
D4- #872- explains the no-lynch thing, also hammers the no lynch
D5- #894- spots the issue with Edmund, I think that post pushes Edmund towards getting lynched
#911- favoured the not killing Gkrieg/Edmund today (which would have left 2 scum)
#931- argument with Edmund
#935-8- rereads lots of scum combinations
#949- an interesting post, but it's obvious by then they're different alignments
-
Rereading that D5, I'm struggling to see yuma/Edmund out of that.
-
so, Vote:TA
-
bummer, mafia wins
-
bummer, mafia wins
FFS
-
I knew me being left for LYLO wasn't good for us :(
-
Day 6 Final Vote Count
Twistedarcher (2): yuma, Joseph2302
yuma (1): Twistedarcher
Not Voting (0)
With 3 alive, it took 2 to lynch.
-
This time, standing in front of the same massive door, Igor felt at ease. As he stepped into the room, Putin stood up from behind his desk and rushed to greet him.
"Igor - my friend! It is good to see you!" He hugged Igor. "You know, you had me worried quite a bit there."
Igor himself had been under intense stress this last couple of days. With only one of his agents in the field of the final three, things could have gone wrong any time, especially considering the extreme measures he had to take to push Donald Trump out of the race. But now it was done.
Putin laughed. "I thought our agent was done for when she bragged about knowing me personally in the one debate. But the Americans never had a clue, had they?"
"They are still entirely oblivious to our scheme", confirmed Igor.
"Good, good. Now let us see our presidential hopeful firsthand." He clicked on some device, and a familiar face appeared on one of the walls."
"Miss Fiorina", said Putin with a warm voice, "congratulations! It is good to see you again..."
Twistedarcher has been lynched! He was Mike Huckabee, the Vanilla Townie!
Joseph2302, who was Bobby Jindal, the Vanilla Townie, has been endgamed.
The scum team of yuma, Edmund and Hydrad wins!
yuma is MVP!
-
QTs:
Mafia (http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/MvNmbYwxt7i)
Old Speccy (http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/EMtK4SZ2VZ53)
New Speccy (http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/LjgFDtABaC3pH)
Super exciting Neighborhood QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/tWeB2aRQxAE)
-
Best neighborhood ever.
-
but the whitespace :(
-
This way, we do everything as above except in signup order instead of reverse and we randomize the HONB instead of assigning it. I believe 20% is close to the ideal value to maxmize the chance that someone gets it.
I don't get how this is helpful in anyway whatsoever, or what point this is proving, but OK. I don't freaking get it.
is this directed at ash or at me?
Ash. You're working towards your win condition regardless of alignment, Ash isn't working towards his win condition regardless of alignment. Of course he's going to be town, and he'll say after the game "I'm right, you're wrong, I had to do this to prove a point", but it's just frustrating that we can't count on people to play straightforward. People's motives should be to win and play straightforward, and it's horrible confusing for teammates when people don't do it. This is two games in a row we've had a self vote for town members to just prove a point, and it's frustrating for the rest of us who actually want to win.
I was right, you were all wrong, I had to do it to prove a point.
-
I was right, you were all wrong, I had to do it to prove a point.
Er... I don't think you were right.
-
I mean, of course we disagree, but if you mean to say that the end of the game showcased that you were right, then I don't think it did.
-
sad day. I really didn't know there was a neapolitan...
-
Oh good.
This end game was a lesson in self control. I didn't think i could last much longer in not most anything and I felt that the more that I posted the more it would hurt me. So I am glad the game finally ended or I probably would have given in and driven myself to a lynch...
-
Also I am never playing in two games at the same time. The risk of being mafia in both of them is too high and that is completely and totally exhausting... especially when in both games you are playing against a mod of the other game...
On another note, I was kinda critical of this game in the mafia speccy early on, but that I think was mostly because I was failing to completely understand the setup (as a sub I hadn't paid a whole lot of attention to the setup) in the end I think this setup was well thought out, balanced and fun. I do think there is a slight concern about scum not having the option to have credible fakeclaims to be involved in the PR selection process (aside from one player with the blend in power) but that ended up not being an issue here as town for some reason didn't talk about that at all... I thought that would have been a much bigger issue.
-
Ninja would have prevented the babysitter from working on Hydrad?
Told you I didn't read the seutp very closely...
-
hurrah. it doesn't matter at least because we still did it!
nice work you guys!
-
Reading through the speccy:
1. I don't think in any of the games I have played as scum have I ever had such a large cheering section rooting for mafia. Thanks guys!
2. I think the plan helped mafia more than it helped town. PRs weren't completely useless in this game, obviously with the babysitter event, but we were able to directly night kill PRs every night because most people followed the plan. And that was in an event of us as mafia not trying to infiltrate it, and actually get a PR, which we potentially could have had we lined it up a little bit better.
3. The plan was weakened by not having town claim who they voted for in the distribution phase. That had the potential to be crippling with giving little away.
4. what is the comment in /146 about "seeing if at least one mafia can read" about?
-
4. what is the comment in /146 about "seeing if at least one mafia can read" about?
Well, after the no lynch, there was no need for you to kill, by the rules of the game town would have been forced to lynch first. Yet this was never considered.
-
how is having a few PRs that cause a mafia to die n1 worse than not having any pr's?
although, it was certainly bad since it caused us to have one less day.
-
I did my best to throw off the anti-town movement, but alas, failed.
-
4. what is the comment in /146 about "seeing if at least one mafia can read" about?
Well, after the no lynch, there was no need for you to kill, by the rules of the game town would have been forced to lynch first. Yet this was never considered.
Hmmm. I think it was still best to kill given the concern over the night bomb, who we ended up hitting correctly. We anticipated the fact of me staying alive as a claimed to be a bigger deal, and probably would have if Edmund hadn't fake claimed. And showing that we were bomb hunting was necessary to prove that.
-
QTs:
Mafia (http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/MvNmbYwxt7i)
Old Speccy (http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/EMtK4SZ2VZ53)
New Speccy (http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/LjgFDtABaC3pH)
Super exciting Neighborhood QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/tWeB2aRQxAE)
No mod QT?
If you don't want to share it, that is fine, or if you just didn't have one that is fine too, but I do like to read from the mod's perspective...
-
QTs:
Mafia (http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/MvNmbYwxt7i)
Old Speccy (http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/EMtK4SZ2VZ53)
New Speccy (http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/LjgFDtABaC3pH)
Super exciting Neighborhood QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/tWeB2aRQxAE)
No mod QT?
If you don't want to share it, that is fine, or if you just didn't have one that is fine too, but I do like to read from the mod's perspective...
There is a mod QT, but I didn't write a lot besides prewrites for flavor and such. Basically no game commentary.
-
There is a mod QT, but I didn't write a lot besides prewrites for flavor and such. Basically no game commentary.
Bummer. But understandable. And the flavor was really, really good. Like I said, it completely warped my brain on following the GOP primary. Between this and purposefully not paying attention until the start of 2016 I honestly have no idea who is still in the current running anymore...
-
There is a mod QT, but I didn't write a lot besides prewrites for flavor and such. Basically no game commentary.
Bummer. But understandable. And the flavor was really, really good. Like I said, it completely warped my brain on following the GOP primary. Between this and purposefully not paying attention until the start of 2016 I honestly have no idea who is still in the current running anymore...
+1
-
I also agree that the flavor here was awesome. I don't think scum was as screwed as Yuma made them out to be, but I agree that if Town had claimed who they had chosen during the PR distribution phase, scum may have been caught in a lie. The powers themselves don't really matter too much since nothing can be totally confirmed and scum can fakeclaim whatever isn't chosen with Knowledge, but I thought the setup as a whole was well thought out and a cool experiment.
-
I also agree that the flavor here was awesome. I don't think scum was as screwed as Yuma made them out to be, but I agree that if Town had claimed who they had chosen during the PR distribution phase, scum may have been caught in a lie. The powers themselves don't really matter too much since nothing can be totally confirmed and scum can fakeclaim whatever isn't chosen with Knowledge, but I thought the setup as a whole was well thought out and a cool experiment.
Yes, I think I over-exaggerated the risk to mafia, partially because I still didn't fully understand.
But for me the main issue was that the full mafia team wasn't given a choice as to whether or not they could participate or fake claim. By mandating that everyone except for the mafia team participate they were doomed to need a fake claim (that could have caught them out) if town chose to go down that road.
In a typical game Mafia at least always has the option of being able to claim VT. That is a fall back claim that is "relatively" safe. In this game mafia couldn't claim to not have voted for anyone as per the rules all town players were required to vote for someone. Anyone who was not participating was therefore defaulted to be mafia and that I thought was the problem. So I think in the future, if this setup is run again, a fix would be to either give each individual mafia member a vote (and then maybe raise the level up one on each tier?) or to allow town members to not cast votes, and thus allow mafia to safely claim the same.
-
So voyeur saws himself
welp
Never fakeclaiming again
GG to everyone.
-
So voyeur saws himself
welp
Never fakeclaiming again
GG to everyone.
Hope you didn't mind me attacking you so mercilessly.
Why did you feel it was necessary to fake claim? And why didn't you discuss doing so in the mafia QT with me?
-
Nah, no problem on that.
It was an immediate thought. When gkrieg vlaimed, i thought since ive been defending TA p good i thought it might eorked out.
-
Nah, no problem on that.
It was an immediate thought. When gkrieg vlaimed, i thought since ive been defending TA p good i thought it might eorked out.
it might have. But it really threw me for a loop. I guess I mostly thought it would have been better to talk it through in the QT--we figured that we knew gkrieg was the voyeur as we knew there was one--and that would have helped getting the specifics down for the claim instead of winging it and not fully realizing the mechanics.
anways, it worked out, but I was really flustered, which I tried to convey as townie confusion, but was really just me being confused scum.
-
Oh man
-
Oh man
(http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/gallery/files/6/7/3/HolyNecroPost_759032.jpg)
-
I just think about this game sometimes because America.
-
Sleeper cell.