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[Hydrad]

If you guys are going to go through with this then I would think hydrad needs to redirect everything off of haddock at night so he can actually do the revival action, yes?

Oh does he need to target sirmartin again? I thought his action he needed to do was last night so thats partially why I tried to redirect things off him anyways.

[Haddock]

I think pps is worried about me getting blocked. I don't need to target.

[pingpongsam]

I think pps is worried about me getting blocked. I don't need to target.

"I feel kinda strange" is not a targeting action?

[pingpongsam]

I think pps is worried about me getting blocked. I don't need to target.

"I feel kinda strange" is not a targeting action?

Also, please clarify the "semi one shot" nature of your role power.

[Haddock]

Are we still quibbling about this?
I really thought it was only the one shot bit that I'd failed to properly explain, but apparently not.

The janitoring is targeted, I targeted chairs last night. Then the janitoring happens if that person gets lynched.

Once I've been correct once and a janitoring has gone through, I no longer get to target at night.  Instead i get the option to take an untargeted action; I can put Funny Feeling in my QT on any night (once I've janitored successfully) to revive whoever I janitored.  Once that happens I'm basically a VT.

[gkrieg13]

I would be fine with testing Haddock's claim.

[pingpongsam]

Are we still quibbling about this?
I really thought it was only the one shot bit that I'd failed to properly explain, but apparently not.

The janitoring is targeted, I targeted chairs last night. Then the janitoring happens if that person gets lynched.

Once I've been correct once and a janitoring has gone through, I no longer get to target at night.  Instead i get the option to take an untargeted action; I can put Funny Feeling in my QT on any night (once I've janitored successfully) to revive whoever I janitored.  Once that happens I'm basically a VT.

Can you please get mod confirmation on what classification the "Funny Feeling" action falls under?

If you are killed and it negates your resurrection attempt it would be very bad.

[Teproc]

Alright, catching up now.

[Teproc]

@Haddock : That's not what this is about.

I assumed it wasn't, which is why I asked you what it WAS about.
I don't see how my targetting him is scummy.

As I said, it was a toss-up between targetting Awa (the most scummy person according to some other people) and targetting chairs (my choice for most scummy person).  I backed myself.  Maybe that was arrogant.  But there you go.

Looks like it's a moot point anyway.

PPE. 2

Ok, to clarify what I thought was scummy about you targeting chairs.

The way I expect you to use your role is to pick the scummiest person you can think of, and then try to get them lynched. I have a hard time believing chairs/SirMartin was your top scum read after day 1. THe only reason he got a wagon was his absence, which was explained by his replacing out. It read to me like you pretented to target him because you figured no one would object to lynching him too much, ie going with a consensual pick rather than your own read. Surely you ca see how this is scummy.

[Teproc]

Well, no, it was not scum. Oh well, someone is hated today then

Wait, what ? I mean yeah, no kill could indicate that... actually that's an interesting rules interaction. Well no, they're both Haddock and Awaclus are Ameritrash anyway. So I don't see why anyone would be Hated. What most likely happens here is :
1) Scum tried to kill Haddock
2) Hydrad redirected all actions targeting Haddock to Awaclus.

[Teproc]

Well, no, it was not scum. Oh well, someone is hated today then

Well, I guess it's POSSIBLE that scum also tried to kill me.  Pretty unlikely, though, based on yesterday's events I'm a decent chance for a mislynch.  So yeah let's proceed on the assumption that someone is hated.

...

Yesterday's events are this :
1) You got a wagon on you
2) You claimed, including your alignment, something scum "needs" to get a kill
3) You no longer had a wagon on you

That makes you a potential NK. They have your alignment, you're not too likely to be protected but you're not likely to be lynched either. Makes sense to me...

[Teproc]

There went my theory the setup contained no redirection.

Also, if killing actions, which require guessing the alignment correctly to work, are redirected to another target would the alignment guess have to apply to original target or the redirected target? I am guessing the latter. Thus, it would appear to me that Awaclus would have to have had the same alignment as Haddock for the redirection to kill him.

What I do do not require to guess alignment

Well, this thing you do kills townies. Vig?

Oh yeah, I had seen taht EgorK might have claimed vig in the neighborhood... if so this is the weiredest, most non-commital claim I've ever seen.

[Teproc]

I assumed hated was randomly assigned when his vig shot hit town.

Town points to pps for not knowing the setup, as much as I hate to give out points for that.

[Teproc]

And why is it okay to call people 'scum?' I mean, it's supposed to be taken lightly, but man, scum is a really powerful word.

I know, the liberal use of "scum" troubled me too initially, but it's just a game term, nothing's meant by it. You'll get used to it.

[Teproc]

ash did his thing... as expected it's underwhelming and not worth all the discussion on day 1, but I'm still in favour.

[Teproc]

Everything Haddock has claimed adds up to me. I have to say if I had his power I would target scum reads at night too. Scum reads are most likely to get lynched. If we happen mislynch somebody because they read scum and I can resurrect them then I just created an IC, prevented a mislynch, and created great wagon analysis. Targeting town reads doesn't serve much purpose because they are more likely to be NK'd where the resurrection power does not extend. Plus, they are already town reads so, if they are in fact town we don't need them IC'd nearly as badly to trust the reads.

I'm becoming more suspicious of those painting Haddock as obvscum, here.

Vote: WW

Someone gets it. Well I don't know about the WW part, but the rest is right on.

[Teproc]

I missed the part where haddock using his power on someone makes them an IC. Why do we believe that?

A) It is ridiculously easy to disprove so long as he is claiming his targets.

B) He posted the claim quite quickly once pressured for it.

We have to lynch the person that he targets, though.

Yeah, well, I'm not arguing we lynch his targets just that his claim is actually believable and thus he is probably not scum. Defending Haddock is not, by necessity, being in favor of enacting his power.

Again, pps making sense. Scary.

[Teproc]

I don't think this claim is very believable.  It doesn't sound like a real claim.  Especially with the part about forgetting to claim all the aspects of it.

I'm starting to get the vote WW part. Like, how is his claim not believable ? It's super detailed in terms of flavor.

And the messier a claim is, the townier is. You know this, why are you ignoring it all of a sudden ?

*insert vote for WW here, except I have no idea about the vote count so I'll hold*

[Teproc]

Actually Chairs is sensible as a target.. he doesn't post much and is really hard to read.. if Haddock is seeing his role as a pseudo investigative role, then that makes sense.

Chairs didn't get replaced until the day started, right?

WW is wrong about everything in this game.

[Teproc]

WW defense seems valid to me as well.

I believe the Haddock claim, I just think the way it was brought out is scummy.  He seems to change his story all the time and his tone today has seemed scummy.  It reminds me a lot of his tone when I pressured him his first scum game for being overly worried of faust having a wagon going on him.

PPE

OTOH, gkrieg is obvscum, so... WW can probably live a bit.

[Teproc]

Ok, you guys suck. Both of those wagons are terrible.

If I understand things correctly, lynching SirMartin only verifies Haddock's claim if:
1) SirMartin is town (fine, since if he's scum we're happy too)
2) Haddock gets to revive him the next day

Which, 2) doesn't work if scum has any roleblocking capabilites. Which, in RMM, seems likely right ?

So, lynching SirMartin for PR reasons seem horrible. For reads reason, it seems meh at best.

And lynching Haddock is bad because he's town. So now, let's...

[ashersky]

Haddock claims to be unblockable because he doesn't target to revive.  He just revives all janitored town.

[Teproc]

vote: gkrieg

Reread his day 2. Completely following the flow back and forth on Haddock, saying he's rethinking his position and believes the claim but not unvoting. Also his day 1 was also super scummy, we should have lynched him then.

PPE : Oh, I missed that.

I still don't like it. We lose a lynch and the interactions that go with it for what ? One IC (since Haddock is already obvtown) ? Meh.

[Teproc]

Days are where town wins the game, folks.

Ok, probably less true in RMM, but still. Wasting a day has a real cost. SirMartin having been targeted makes him a more appealing lynch than normal, but we should still only lynch him if we think he's scum, which I don't particularly.

[Roadrunner7671]

I agree about the DirMartin thing, I was only doing it cause all the cool kids were.

But in reality, I only really have a scum read on Haddock, but I have a sinking suspicion that he's just town being scummy. So SirMartin was as good a lynch as any. Unvote
Maybe I should retread gkreig