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[EFHW]

We also are an even number right now, so that makes no lynch less terrible.  Let's see how this goes.

vote: no lynch

[yuma]

Would scum want a no lynch?

I have no idea... my gut says they wouldn't want to bring it up theselves because that is a "scummy thing to do" as pps just said, of course I am the one that brought it up so I would be saying that... but I think it is an area that scum knows to avoid but is one that given the constraints of the game is one that we should consider and given the unusual nature of the game is something that I think helps town more than scum in this situation...

[yuma]

We also are an even number right now, so that makes no lynch less terrible.  Let's see how this goes.

vote: no lynch

I am down vote: no lynch

[sudgy]

Sorry, I've been really busy with Christmas and other things.  Starting tomorrow, though, I should be better.

Walrus has seemed to be scummy, but I have a reason I don't want to lynch him.  I would rather not mention why.

Out of Archetype and xeiron, by quickly skimming their posts, I couldn't see anything great in them.  Archetype seems more viable, so Vote: Archetype.  Someone could easily change my mind, but I don't know if I'll be on before deadline again.

If my flavor name starts with a:

P: I target xeiron (if lynched, I target Walrus)
D: I target Archetype (if lynched, I target xeiron)
R: I target Walrus (if lynched, I target Archetype)

[EFHW]

Thoughts and reactions to no lynch?

[nkirbit]

I would rather lynch myself than no-lynch.  I don't want to be dead in the water tomorrow.

Scum will just kill the least relevant town member, and we will have nothing to go on, will surely mislynch tomorrow, Chairs will be a tree stump if he's not lying.  It will be 7 to lynch and we will have what, 9 voting town members (assuming 3 man scum team).  We are dead in the water unless we get an investigation result, and absolutely screwed if there is a SK or a vig who misfires.

I think we should force scum to make a hard decision.  They're probably lurking right now, and gleeful at the fact that we're going to start tomorrow with one less member, one tree stump, and really really hoping a cop got lucky.

[yuma]

Walrus has seemed to be scummy, but I have a reason I don't want to lynch him.  I would rather not mention why.

If you didn't want to mention why you shouldn't have mentioned it at all...

[nkirbit]

Even number is not a good reason to no-lynch when someone has claimed tree-stump starting tomorrow, right?

[yuma]

I would rather lynch myself than no-lynch.  I don't want to be dead in the water tomorrow.

Scum will just kill the least relevant town member, and we will have nothing to go on, will surely mislynch tomorrow, Chairs will be a tree stump if he's not lying.  It will be 7 to lynch and we will have what, 9 voting town members (assuming 3 man scum team).  We are dead in the water unless we get an investigation result, and absolutely screwed if there is a SK or a vig who misfires.

I think we should force scum to make a hard decision.  They're probably lurking right now, and gleeful at the fact that we're going to start tomorrow with one less member, one tree stump, and really really hoping a cop got lucky.

How do you know we will have nothing to go on? This is RMM yes? Results, night actions going crazy? Something. And yet still all of the content from today along with a mafia flip--unless it is blocked, something that is very possible. Add in the time travel element which you completely ignore and I don't think any of your points are valid. But if you would rather lynch yourself, feel free to vote yourself... this is the exact sort of reaction I would expect mafia to have.

[EFHW]

nkirbit, having a mislynch today doesn't put us in any better of a position tomorrow, and I currently have no confidence that any of the 3 main candidates are scum.

[pingpongsam]

vote:xeiron I guess. Walrus does seem easy. Seems to be a lot of support for xeiron.

But even more for Archetype.  Why not archetype?

What is even the case against him?

He sheeped onto the Walrus wagon in a scummy wagon.  He didn't push for his top scum-read, appeared to settle for Walrus, moved back to Xeiron when the IC asked him to, moved back to Walrus as soon as he started to look like a viable lynch.  His votes have seem to been aimed to end the day, get credit for doing what the IC said, and saving himself.  Town should be voting to find scum, and his jumping between Xeiron and Archetype, especially at a point where neither of them were online and posting, didn't appear to me to convey that goal.

Did his opinion of Xeiron and Walrus flip-flop multiple times during a period in which neither of them were posting?  Or did he move his vote for other reasons than voting his top scumread through.

Town should be fighting to get their preferred lynch through, or at least digging for more information to help them find out who their preferred lynch is.  Archetype (and honestly, the town as a whole) seemed to be okay with ending the day on a mediocre lynch.  We can do better.

Right, so Town archetype should be voting himself... or should scum Archetype be voting himself? I'm confused because portions of your argument implicate Archetype for not voting himself. I think all of our votes at this point are aimed to end the day as the day is about to end. A Townie working to save himself is a pro-Town behavior so acting in self-preservation isn't a scum-trait. Sheeping the IC for the credit is  certainly scummy but sheeping the IC in general isn't immediately scummy. We appear to be at a crossroads and sheeping the one person we can trust for which direction to vote seems fairly pro-town to me.

PPE 9: I find the votes for no-lynch interesting because the no-lynch condition is simply not finding 8 votes on any player.

[nkirbit]

I would rather lynch myself than no-lynch.  I don't want to be dead in the water tomorrow.

Scum will just kill the least relevant town member, and we will have nothing to go on, will surely mislynch tomorrow, Chairs will be a tree stump if he's not lying.  It will be 7 to lynch and we will have what, 9 voting town members (assuming 3 man scum team).  We are dead in the water unless we get an investigation result, and absolutely screwed if there is a SK or a vig who misfires.

I think we should force scum to make a hard decision.  They're probably lurking right now, and gleeful at the fact that we're going to start tomorrow with one less member, one tree stump, and really really hoping a cop got lucky.

How do you know we will have nothing to go on? This is RMM yes? Results, night actions going crazy? Something. And yet still all of the content from today along with a mafia flip--unless it is blocked, something that is very possible. Add in the time travel element which you completely ignore and I don't think any of your points are valid. But if you would rather lynch yourself, feel free to vote yourself... this is the exact sort of reaction I would expect mafia to have.

I don't know, but it's very possible.  If we lynch someone, there's a chance they're mafia, and at the very least, we'll have a wagon to look at.  Yeah, we might get a cop, but what if we don't?  We're at the same position as today, only we have a lower percentage of the votes.

Town has at least some control over getting a lynch through.  There's a chance the night actions just whiff, or are tampered with, or mafia fake-claims, or anything can go wrong.  I just think we're banking too much on a good night, when mafia surely have powers to prevent that from happening, and any number of things could go wrong.

But most of us here are town, and we can decide on a lynch right now.  We know we can do that.  I'd rather take the sure thing than hope the night goes well.  It may or may not, but if it doesn't, I think we're in very bad shape tomorrow.

[nkirbit]

nkirbit, having a mislynch today doesn't put us in any better of a position tomorrow, and I currently have no confidence that any of the 3 main candidates are scum.

That's true.  I would give archetype at least a 50% chance of flipping scum.. if you disagree with those odds, I guess no lynch makes more sense.  But I think there's a pretty decent chance he's scum, so I'm going to push for the lynch.

[Jimmmmm]

nkirbit, having a mislynch today doesn't put us in any better of a position tomorrow, and I currently have no confidence that any of the 3 main candidates are scum.

It's one mislynch we can't have Tomorrow.

[EFHW]

nkirbit, having a mislynch today doesn't put us in any better of a position tomorrow, and I currently have no confidence that any of the 3 main candidates are scum.

It's one mislynch we can't have Tomorrow.

??

[pingpongsam]

nkirbit, having a mislynch today doesn't put us in any better of a position tomorrow, and I currently have no confidence that any of the 3 main candidates are scum.

It's one mislynch we can't have Tomorrow.

??

aka information we otherwise would not have

[Jimmmmm]

nkirbit, having a mislynch today doesn't put us in any better of a position tomorrow, and I currently have no confidence that any of the 3 main candidates are scum.

It's one mislynch we can't have Tomorrow.

??

aka information we otherwise would not have

Right, plus a bunch of stances on someone whose alignment is confirmed.

[chairs]

I'm okay with a vote: no-lynch.

[nkirbit]

I'm willing to switch to Archetype, but I don't buy this claim at all. FTR, I have a null read on Archetype, but would prefer him over a no lynch.

Is this still true?

[Twistedarcher]

Vote Count 1.14

Archetype (5): Jimmmmm, Walrus, Faust, Nkirbit, Sudgy
xeiron (2): 2.7..., Jotheonah
Walrus (4): ashersky, pingpongsam, Xeiron, Archetype
No Lynch (3): EFHW, Yuma, Chairs


With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

D1 ends on Friday, December 27 at 530 PM forum time (two days added due to the original deadline falling on Christmas).

That's in 40 minutes.

[faust]

We also are an even number right now, so that makes no lynch less terrible.  Let's see how this goes.

vote: no lynch

This is wrong. We likely don't get 1 kill per night, as this is RMM, so the even number thingy doesn't work. You need to vote. I'm off for today. I really hope you lynch someone.

[xeiron]

I think we should lynch today.

Our goal is to kill scum. Our weapon is the lynch, and I think we should use every chance we have to try kill scum.
It is difficult to guess how parity is going to end up in this game, but if we are unlucky we get on less attempt at hitting scum by no-lynching, than we would if we lynch.
 

[EFHW]

I won't vote for the current wagons.  Those of you with strong opinions should feel free to go ahead and vote accordingly.

[yuma]

I think we should lynch today.

Our goal is to kill scum. Our weapon is the lynch, and I think we should use every chance we have to try kill scum.
It is difficult to guess how parity is going to end up in this game, but if we are unlucky we get on less attempt at hitting scum by no-lynching, than we would if we lynch.

my argument has nothing to do with parity. It has to do with RMM--lots and lots of roles out there and the time traveling element, boiling down the no-lynch argument to a parity one is ignoring the rest of the issue (and the biggest ones) at hand.

[jotheonah]

vote:xeiron I guess. Walrus does seem easy. Seems to be a lot of support for xeiron.

But even more for Archetype.  Why not archetype?

What is even the case against him?

He sheeped onto the Walrus wagon in a scummy wagon.  He didn't push for his top scum-read, appeared to settle for Walrus, moved back to Xeiron when the IC asked him to, moved back to Walrus as soon as he started to look like a viable lynch.  His votes have seem to been aimed to end the day, get credit for doing what the IC said, and saving himself.  Town should be voting to find scum, and his jumping between Xeiron and Archetype, especially at a point where neither of them were online and posting, didn't appear to me to convey that goal.

Did his opinion of Xeiron and Walrus flip-flop multiple times during a period in which neither of them were posting?  Or did he move his vote for other reasons than voting his top scumread through.

Town should be fighting to get their preferred lynch through, or at least digging for more information to help them find out who their preferred lynch is.  Archetype (and honestly, the town as a whole) seemed to be okay with ending the day on a mediocre lynch.  We can do better.

All that is after his wagon already existed!

No lynch is a bad idea. I can't believe we're having this argument at T-45 minutes.