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[2.71828.....]

The vote was mostly a knee-jerk reaction.

Yeah.  It seemed like that.  Which seems towny to me.  I would think that scum would have quickly jumped on the idea that PPS roleblocked them.  You didn't.

I still want to hear if there is any further investigative material about either yourself or PPS out there.  Because if you did roleblock PPS, his ninja would no longer work and previously empty results might be discovered.  Without any further evidence against Walrus, I might be able to be persuaded into option 2 rather than option 1 (where I am right now)

[yuma]

We should ask voltaire, but I think the wiki might offer some insight in the meantime:

There is no consensus as to what happens when multiple Roleblockers exist and target each other (or with similar roles such as Jailkeeper). The prevailing opinion is that Roleblocks are resolved in such a way that conflicts are minimized. The other opinion is that all Roleblocks are simultaneous; thus everyone targeted by a Roleblocker is Roleblocked.

PPE: and I see that volt already answered with that I think is the best option...

[nkirbit]

So it is not the case that scum PPS blocked Walrus and killed Sudgy, and town Walrus blocked PPS, unless there was another kill on Sudgy.

Another possibility is that Walrus is scum.

There are probably others, but those are the two obvious ones that I'm seeing.

[nkirbit]

The vote was mostly a knee-jerk reaction.

Yeah.  It seemed like that.  Which seems towny to me.  I would think that scum would have quickly jumped on the idea that PPS roleblocked them.  You didn't.

I still want to hear if there is any further investigative material about either yourself or PPS out there.  Because if you did roleblock PPS, his ninja would no longer work and previously empty results might be discovered.  Without any further evidence against Walrus, I might be able to be persuaded into option 2 rather than option 1 (where I am right now)

Well, his ninja would no longer work, but neither would his kills.  There wouldn't be any evidence of a kill from PPS, because any action that PPS took would no longer happen.

[2.71828.....]

pingpongsam, a Ninja role, asked D2 if someone watched sudgy. This maybe means that he ninja-killed sudgy.

Which makes this even more intriguing.

[yuma]

Could be. I realized that blocking the time-traveling scum would be a risk, as he might not actually have been there. But I still thought it was better than my other options.

Ok.  I just wanted to see what you thought before I vote: Walrus

Reasons:
1) The sudgy result

2) Part of my ability is that I am a 1-shot follower.  I followed Walrus on N1, and he did nothing.  Mod confirmation tells me that if any new actions were to take place (like a time traveler goes back in time to do something) I would receive a new notification about that event.  I received no such updates concerning Walrus' N1 activities.

So my choices are 1) PPS roleblocked Walrus N1 (meaning PPS did not travel that night) or 2) Walrus is scum.

His "I went back and time traveled to target the bad guy" is a scum ploy for town cred in my opinion.  I was one of the biggest town!Walrus people early, but given my negative result concerning Walrus I am convinced he is scum.  The only town narrative for him at this point is that PPS roleblocked him for N1 on N1 (not time-travelling) and I do not trust that.  At all.  It is entirely plausible because PPS was a roleblocker and if anyone has any way to confirm what action PPS took N1 we need that information because that is the only thing that could possibly clear Walrus.

I am going to add one more hypothetical....

it is possible that 2.7 was blocked night1 and thus why he received no information about this?

2.7 is there any indication that would differentate between you being blocked and seeing someone doing nothing? Or even retroactively blocked somehow.

Just so that we are covering all the possible bases here.

from the wiki

Some moderators will tell Followers whose targets did not visit anyone "No Result", which is indistinguishable from the result they would have gotten if the Follower were Roleblocked.

[EFHW]

Actually, Jimmmmm, wait, if it's not too late.  I'll explain when I'm at a computer.

[2.71828.....]

I did not recieve a "no result" PM.  I did confirm with Voltaire that my N1 action did not have any new updates. 

I do not believe that there is any information that would differentiate the situation where I am roleblocked, the person I follow is role-blocked, or the person I follow does nothing.

[jotheonah]

I don't like Walrus's night action claim. Claiming to have targeted a dead person in the past? How much safer can you get?

[nkirbit]

I don't like Walrus's night action claim. Claiming to have targeted a dead person in the past? How much safer can you get?

I dunno.  If you're a town roleblocker, confirmed scum is a pretty good person to target.. if he chose to travel into the future, he is by far more likely to block town then scum.

Taking the action that has a chance of helping town is probably better than the action that has a pretty good chance of harming town.

[xeiron]

I don't like Walrus's night action claim. Claiming to have targeted a dead person in the past? How much safer can you get?

I desagree. I was a logical choice for him, and a good oppurtunity to clear himself. The action fits perfectly in a town narrative for Walrus.

[jotheonah]

I don't like Walrus's night action claim. Claiming to have targeted a dead person in the past? How much safer can you get?

I dunno.  If you're a town roleblocker, confirmed scum is a pretty good person to target.. if he chose to travel into the future, he is by far more likely to block town then scum.

Taking the action that has a chance of helping town is probably better than the action that has a pretty good chance of harming town.

He also has a vig shot though. THat's a chance of ending the game right then and there. And town vigs, I believe, usually want to shoot.

[nkirbit]

I don't like Walrus's night action claim. Claiming to have targeted a dead person in the past? How much safer can you get?

I dunno.  If you're a town roleblocker, confirmed scum is a pretty good person to target.. if he chose to travel into the future, he is by far more likely to block town then scum.

Taking the action that has a chance of helping town is probably better than the action that has a pretty good chance of harming town.

He also has a vig shot though. THat's a chance of ending the game right then and there. And town vigs, I believe, usually want to shoot.

If by ending the game right then and there you mean Night 4, I guess.

[xeiron]

I don't like Walrus's night action claim. Claiming to have targeted a dead person in the past? How much safer can you get?

I dunno.  If you're a town roleblocker, confirmed scum is a pretty good person to target.. if he chose to travel into the future, he is by far more likely to block town then scum.

Taking the action that has a chance of helping town is probably better than the action that has a pretty good chance of harming town.

He also has a vig shot though. THat's a chance of ending the game right then and there. And town vigs, I believe, usually want to shoot.

He have already claimed to shoot pps night 2.(submitted order N1). The next chance to shoot is N4.

[nkirbit]

I'm pretty sure he's not PPS's partner.. claiming to vig your partner night2.. what's the game plan when you both live through the night?  Looks pretty bad for at least one of them, huh?

[xeiron]

I'm pretty sure he's not PPS's partner.. claiming to vig your partner night2.. what's the game plan when you both live through the night?  Looks pretty bad for at least one of them, huh?

That is actually possible. They would say PPS survived because of the regeneration he claimed, while he really survives because Walrus lies.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

I don't like Walrus's night action claim. Claiming to have targeted a dead person in the past? How much safer can you get?

How much safer would you like?

With this big a lead I think the "safe" plays are the wisest ones to make. That's true I think for most games...you have to take more risks generally when you're behind.

Also, somebody asked me yesterday why I vigged after we had flipped scum. To be honest, that was something I had not thought about at that point. But with two scum down, the risks of a misvig are unacceptably high. And now I had a roleblock target I could feel confident about.

[EFHW]

It's fine with me to check re: PPS role-blocking, but I don't see how anyone would know if PPS in particular role-blocked them. 

Ok, each person should say a "yes" or a "no" about whether they have reason to believe an N1 action of theirs was roleblocked or if they tried to roleblock either pps or Walrus.  Please just yes or no for now.  Don't say anything else.  I promise you will get your turn.  It may seem unnecessary, but one aim of my delaying claims has been to leave scum completely in the dark about who our investigative and protective roles are, if any, and we may decide to continue that if we get enough info for today. 

I want Jimmmmm to hold off claiming so scum can't make fakeclaims consistent with his result, and because I have another question first.

Does anyone feel that their role is comparable to Jotheonah's in terms not having much to do, and getting information that would probably only be helpful in a limited number of circumstances?    I ask this because there is such a disparity between his and Walrus's roles, and I'm surprised to see an RMM role without more stuff to do.  ONLY ANSWER IF YOU ARE SAYING YES and DON"T LIE AS TOWN.  It might seem like clever subterfuge to seem to have a minor role, but it really won't help in the long run.

[nkirbit]

EFHW:  Yes to the joth question.

[xeiron]

It's fine with me to check re: PPS role-blocking, but I don't see how anyone would know if PPS in particular role-blocked them. 

Ok, each person should say a "yes" or a "no" about whether they have reason to believe an N1 action of theirs was roleblocked or if they tried to roleblock either pps or Walrus.  Please just yes or no for now.  Don't say anything else.  I promise you will get your turn.  It may seem unnecessary, but one aim of my delaying claims has been to leave scum completely in the dark about who our investigative and protective roles are, if any, and we may decide to continue that if we get enough info for today. 

I want Jimmmmm to hold off claiming so scum can't make fakeclaims consistent with his result, and because I have another question first.

Does anyone feel that their role is comparable to Jotheonah's in terms not having much to do, and getting information that would probably only be helpful in a limited number of circumstances?    I ask this because there is such a disparity between his and Walrus's roles, and I'm surprised to see an RMM role without more stuff to do.  ONLY ANSWER IF YOU ARE SAYING YES and DON"T LIE AS TOWN.  It might seem like clever subterfuge to seem to have a minor role, but it really won't help in the long run.

Yes - to the fist question.

[EFHW]

I don't see why 2.7's claim is necessarily odd, or before it.  He wanted to make sure he had a contradiction, and came forward when what Walrus said he did and what 2.7 saw didn't match up.

Coming forward also makes sense.. and trying to stop the mass-claim early is towny, I think.  If the point of mass-claiming is to try and catch scum, and he thinks he's caught scum.. why keep going on?  Wouldn't scum want to wait for their turn to gather more information?

I'm just surprised to see 2.7's claim not getting the kind of scrutiny that all of the other claims have gotten.  As for my not feeling good about it, I guess I should keep that to myself until I have more to go on.

[nkirbit]

And no to the PPS/Walrus question.

[nkirbit]

I don't see why 2.7's claim is necessarily odd, or before it.  He wanted to make sure he had a contradiction, and came forward when what Walrus said he did and what 2.7 saw didn't match up.

Coming forward also makes sense.. and trying to stop the mass-claim early is towny, I think.  If the point of mass-claiming is to try and catch scum, and he thinks he's caught scum.. why keep going on?  Wouldn't scum want to wait for their turn to gather more information?

I'm just surprised to see 2.7's claim not getting the kind of scrutiny that all of the other claims have gotten.  As for my not feeling good about it, I guess I should keep that to myself until I have more to go on.

Well, we're planning to massclaim.  I'm going to wait until everything's out there, if it's going to be, because analyzing an incomplete picture isn't necessarily helpful.

[EFHW]

pingpongsam, a Ninja role, asked D2 if someone watched sudgy. This maybe means that he ninja-killed sudgy.

I agree that this strongly suggests that pps tried, at least, to ninja-kill sudgy, and that he was trying to frame Walrus with his fakeclaim.

Now there is this disparity, where Walrus claims to have role-blocked pps and 2.7 claims he followed Walrus and was told of no actions taken by Walrus.

Here's a question - can ninja kills be roleblocked?

[nkirbit]

I believe you can.  Ninja has to do with how the kill is detected (it isn't..), but roleblocking stops the kill from happening.