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[EFHW]

If I get confirmation from Voltaire, I'll be voting pps.

Was Voltaire's confirmation good enough for you to vote?  What do you think about my reasoning behind waiting one day to lynch PPS?

yes it was enough for me to vote.

Passive healing, if it exists, would resolve during the "Kill" step.

The kill step is resolved after everyone is back in their own time periods.  Time travel is irrelevant to his role.

Thank you faust!

vote: pps  That's L-1

I'll unvote for the time being to let others weigh in here, but I don't plan to go to the last second before deadline with this one!

I don't agree with 2.7 that we should wait. 1.  Too many variables could change the outcome of that vig, including the possibility that it doesn't exist.  2.  Leaving him alive gives him a chance to use whatever real power he has during the night, before he dies.  3.  We will get so much information from this lynch, which people can then use overnight as they contemplate their night actions.

[nkirbit]

If lynching PPS is the plan, it absolutely has to be today.  If he's scum, it's better to lynch today, because, well, he's scum.  If he's town, and we're going to mislynch him tomorrow anyway.. I would rather get the mislynch out of the way today, because we can at least put the information to use tomorrow.

I'd still rather not lynch PPS at all.

[nkirbit]

Just because you think a role is irrelevant doesn't mean it is, EFHW.  Imagine the following hypothetical role:  "Time-traveling hating vigilante.  Each night, you may target one player.  If they have time traveled this night, kill them.  If they have not, nothing happens."  That's affected by PPS's traveling.

[EFHW]

If lynching PPS is the plan, it absolutely has to be today.  If he's scum, it's better to lynch today, because, well, he's scum.  If he's town, and we're going to mislynch him tomorrow anyway.. I would rather get the mislynch out of the way today, because we can at least put the information to use tomorrow.

I'd still rather not lynch PPS at all.

This latest information doesn't affect your views at all?

[nkirbit]

If lynching PPS is the plan, it absolutely has to be today.  If he's scum, it's better to lynch today, because, well, he's scum.  If he's town, and we're going to mislynch him tomorrow anyway.. I would rather get the mislynch out of the way today, because we can at least put the information to use tomorrow.

I'd still rather not lynch PPS at all.

This latest information doesn't affect your views at all?

What, the bit about his time-traveling being irrelevant?  I don't think so, no.  I think there are roles that would make it relevant.

And if it's on the surface irrelevant, which it does seem to be.. why claim it? 

[nkirbit]

Maybe I'm just overthinking, though.  Xeiron's last post is pretty good... if he time travels with the doctor.. why was he at all confused about Sudgy possibly being the doctor, when Sudgy did not flip as a time traveler?  That is odd.

[EFHW]

Just because you think a role is irrelevant doesn't mean it is, EFHW.  Imagine the following hypothetical role:  "Time-traveling hating vigilante.  Each night, you may target one player.  If they have time traveled this night, kill them.  If they have not, nothing happens."  That's affected by PPS's traveling.

I don't find that persuasive.  Hopping around time with the Doctor even though he won't be needed when away from the present doesn't make sense.  There was no reason to put it in there.  I don't think Voltaire would give someone a role just to make them vulnerable to a vig.

Now, there is the possibility that Voltaire made a mistake.  But I don't think we can make decisions based on that possibility unless we hear it from Voltaire.

[ashersky]

Here, catching up.  I tried last night, but no forums.

Agree we need a lynch today.  Preferences haven't changed.

Only thought on the latest PPS claim discrepancy.  Playing devils advocate, is it possible PPS is describing that his role protects the Doctor on whatever night they traveled to?  So, if the doc would die on N5, PPS protects him on N5?

Sounds unlikely, but Volt's explanation left possible the kill on different nights mechanic.  Like, Walrus could be scum that cannot kill in the present, only the future.  So he can shoot at N4 and hope the target shows up there to receive the bullet.  Ever see Looper?  Like that.

A stretch, and unlikely.  But given all the ridiculous (and probably fake) claims around, who knows?

Still want to lunch walrus/PPS.

[EFHW]

And if it's on the surface irrelevant, which it does seem to be.. why claim it?

Because it makes a good story.  pps being "whisked away," as he put it, by the Doctor to always be by my/sudgy's side is a great image.

If he was town and had some other role for time travel not pertaining to protecting me/sudgy , he probably would not have claimed it.

[EFHW]

Here, catching up.  I tried last night, but no forums.

Agree we need a lynch today.  Preferences haven't changed.

Only thought on the latest PPS claim discrepancy.  Playing devils advocate, is it possible PPS is describing that his role protects the Doctor on whatever night they traveled to?  So, if the doc would die on N5, PPS protects him on N5?

Sounds unlikely, but Volt's explanation left possible the kill on different nights mechanic.  Like, Walrus could be scum that cannot kill in the present, only the future.  So he can shoot at N4 and hope the target shows up there to receive the bullet.  Ever see Looper?  Like that.

A stretch, and unlikely.  But given all the ridiculous (and probably fake) claims around, who knows?

Still want to lunch walrus/PPS.

It doesn't work like that.  If Walrus went to shoot someone in N4, that shooting would not take place until after the Step 0 for N4.  Everyone would be back in their home time periods.  You can't be targeted while you are time-traveling.

[EFHW]

Maybe I'm just overthinking, though.  Xeiron's last post is pretty good... if he time travels with the doctor.. why was he at all confused about Sudgy possibly being the doctor, when Sudgy did not flip as a time traveler?  That is odd.

it is.

[ashersky]

It doesn't work like that.  If Walrus went to shoot someone in N4, that shooting would not take place until after the Step 0 for N4.  Everyone would be back in their home time periods.  You can't be targeted while you are time-traveling.

I know.  I was hoping PPS would just jump on the viable (but wrong) scenario I painted for him.  Oh well.

[EFHW]

It doesn't work like that.  If Walrus went to shoot someone in N4, that shooting would not take place until after the Step 0 for N4.  Everyone would be back in their home time periods.  You can't be targeted while you are time-traveling.

I know.  I was hoping PPS would just jump on the viable (but wrong) scenario I painted for him.  Oh well.

You'll think of something else.

[ashersky]

Gonna get some reads down in case I'm not around tomorrow.  I'd suggest everyone do this.

I think we should start thinking about whether there's other scum out there besides (Walrus/PPS*).

I can see a 3-man team of Arch/Walrus/PPS, or at most two 2-man teams of Arch-X and Walrus-PPS/Arch-PPS and Walrus-X.  I have not ruled out the possibility of some sort of SK, or other third-party, either.

Zero night kills last night makes sense with all the bulletproof claims going around and just sudgy dying from targeting Walrus.

I think Walrus probably didn't lie too much about his role.  I mean, break it down: He claims to be a Roleblocker and Vigilante.  That's basically a player who can block a player from taking a night action as well as kill someone at night.  You know what role that sounds like?  Mafia Roleblocker.

PPS is caught scum, from what I can see.  I appreciate nkirbit attempting to reason out a narrative here, but PPS is just scrambling, and his claim directly conflicts with the IC's role, who we know is not lying.

Mafia Busdriver + Mafia Roleblocker + PPS is definitely a believable team, especially given that I believe both of them are lying about their "town" roles, so what sounds so far like OP town is actually not so OP.  I think the aftermath of N2 will be more telling, especially number of kills (if any) and who scum decides to kill.

(* Walrus/PPS are easily the most likely scum, for the many reasons laid out by various people all day.  You may disagree with this pair, and that's fine, but I think it's helpful and (contrary to what yuma will say) not too early to start trying to ferret out remaining scum, as I feel we are in fantastic shape as a town.)

[faust]

Tbh, I'm not convinced about the 3 main wagons, and this is off the wall but I actually think we should lynch among Yuma, Jimmmmm and Faust.  All have been off our scumhunting radars.  Maybe now I can sleep!

Is this your only reason to lynch us? Because you know, you have been off our scumhunting radars as well...

??  are you confirmed town?

All I wanted to say is, just the fact that someone is off scumhunting radars isn't much of case. Maybe there are good reasons for being off the radar. Sorry if this came out wrong, I guess I was a little frustrated that you would open up a whole new lynch pool when we have already caught scum (or at least I think we have).

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.12[/size]

jotheonah (1): pingpongsam
Walrus (2): ashersky, Jimmmmm
xeiron (2): yuma, 2.71828.....
pingpongsam (4): jotheonah, faust, Walrus, xeiron

Not voting (2): EFHW, nkirbit

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

D2 ends on Monday, January 6 at 7 PM forum time

This is still currently correct.  We have ~2 hours.

[ashersky]

Has Jimmmmm posted recently?  I think scum would be trying hard not to be around at this point to incriminate themselves.

[ashersky]

Re: Jimmmmm's Walrus post.  I was looking for something more neutral.  It's not a scumtell or anything that you didn't do it, it's just there is less information to help us.  I see how reread and case are sometimes used interchangeably, and I'll be more specific next time.

I still don't understand this. I've been struggling to get into this game, admittedly through entirely my own fault, and when I finally make a reasonable effort you chide me for... having an opinion. I mean, if all you wanted was someone to copy-paste all of his posts into one big post then anyone could have done that. That doesn't help me catch up and it certainly doesn't help anyone else evaluate me. If you wanted me to comment on them without actually offering an opinion, well to me that seems much less helpful.

Of course, this is a fairly pointless argument.

I will re-read e and/or pps when I have time and offer my opinions.

Jimmmmm's last post, 5 pages ago.

[2.71828.....]

At this point it really looks like a PPS lynch, but I do want to see Nkirbit place a vote before the lynch.  EFHW does not need to vote anywhere because he is the IC, but even if Nkirbit disagrees with a PPS lynch, he should at least vote somewhere.

And Jimmmmm has been pretty absent this game

[nkirbit]

Vote: 2.7

Happy enough?

[2.71828.....]

Vote: 2.7

Happy enough?

yeah

vote: PPS

[faust]

As ashersky suggested, I'm putting down some reads before I leave for today.

Walrus does not come across as all that scummy to me. I get that sudgy's death incriminates him. If pps flips scum, as I think he will, we should reconsider him, because in that case his claim to have targeted pps may have been a try to save him. Should pps against all odds flip town, that would make Walrus more likely town.

yuma is interesting. In case of scum!pps, I see him more likely to be town, because pps suggested a policy lynch of Galzria/yuma D1, and would scum do that to their partner? I still read him scummy though.

xeiron is hard to read for me, but seems the same as in RMM11. I lean slight town.

nkirbit is a strong town read, ashersky as well.

Jimmmmm is on the scummier side for basically ignoring the pps situation and general lurkiness.

jotheonah... I guess if pps flips scum, we can wait for him to confirm his claim N3. I also don't think scum would bus that heavily after losing one of their own D1. So town read, based on the assumption that pps is scum.

Anyone else? chairs... If he comes back to life, I guess he should be lynched. Has been hardly involved lately despite being excited to be a semi-IC earlier.

Oh, and there's e... I really don't know. Can't remember much about him. Should be reread D3 definitely.

PPE: 6

[xeiron]

My reads if I am not around tomorrow.

Suppose pps flips scum.
If he do not have regeneration in his role name, his partner is in all likelyhood do. Ashersky is my tip.
If he actually are regenerating scum, Ashersky would still be my top scumread, but not as clearly.

If pps flips town, Walrus seem worse again. I stopped pushing Walrus when i stopped believing pingpongsam and his claim to have stopped a nightkill. If he spoke the truth, sudgy most likely died by targeting walrus.
Jotheonah as an alternative to lynching Walrus, as we know he targeted Sudgy, and Sudgy was killed if walrus is town.
Ashersky could be a partner to both of them. He really is my top scumread.
Yuma could be a partner to Walrus, but I dont see it coming. I think walrus is SK or town.

I have only townreads outside of those four.

[EFHW]

Tbh, I'm not convinced about the 3 main wagons, and this is off the wall but I actually think we should lynch among Yuma, Jimmmmm and Faust.  All have been off our scumhunting radars.  Maybe now I can sleep!

Is this your only reason to lynch us? Because you know, you have been off our scumhunting radars as well...

??  are you confirmed town?

All I wanted to say is, just the fact that someone is off scumhunting radars isn't much of case. Maybe there are good reasons for being off the radar. Sorry if this came out wrong, I guess I was a little frustrated that you would open up a whole new lynch pool when we have already caught scum (or at least I think we have).

Off radar is very weak, I agree.  I would have done more today if it had been necessary.  But it certainly shook things up in a very productive way.  Had you had that idea about pps's time travel earlier?

[jotheonah]

is no one considering nkirbit as a possible pps partner if pps is scum?

I know scum doesn't usually defend their partner so much, but if they're already losing ... ploy of desperation?