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[nkirbit]

Yeah, I know.. so if "the doctor" is Sudgy, Walrus is probably scum.  But I think that "The doctor" is EFHW, not Sudgy.. so I am less sure where that leaves us.

[yuma]

Yeah, I know.. so if "the doctor" is Sudgy, Walrus is probably scum.  But I think that "The doctor" is EFHW, not Sudgy.. so I am less sure where that leaves us.

This was how I interpreted the whole thing. From a setup point of view... no way do I make a role that protects a "doctor" when there is a "Doctor" running around without specifically clarifying that point. I think PPS misinterpreted this and unnecessarily claimed... although I am not really against claiming honestly at this poin.

[xeiron]

If PPS is telling the truth, it's is almost certainly the case that either Joth or Walrus is scum, correct?  Sudgy had to die somehow, and being targeted by Joth and targeting Walrus seem to be the only candidates (unless there was a ninja kill, or something like that).

I'm leaning towards believing PPS's claim, so I'm pretty sure I want to lynch either Joth or Walrus.  I'm unsure which I would prefer.

No one watched Sudgy, so there could have been a third person targeting Sudgy with the kill. It does not have to be a ninja kill or anything.
But still, It is quite certain at least one of Walrus or Joth is scum. 

[chairs]

I can only think of a very very few scenarios in which Walrus isn't scum.  I can think of more in which he is.

Why haven't you guys lynched him already?

I'd vote but, you know, tree stump.

[yuma]

And I have had up and down reactions to joth all day. He made a point a while back about PPS that I found worth mentioning:

faust and I disagree on a lot of things, but we agree on pps.

My hesitancy comes from the fact that I too was a vocal not-fan of the Archetype lynch, and it seems hypocritical to lynch pps for the same crime. But re-reading day 1 showed me that his defending of Archetype was really in a different league than mine. So I think I'm good with

vote: pingpongsam

This is actually why I am voting joth and not pps. pps was stronger and "in a different league" than joth's as he says. Well to me that makes sense. Town can emphatically defend someone based off a read very easily, whereas I think mafia takes the middle ground and gentle defends but eventually gives in to the pressure of bussing....

As for joth's claim... I kinda found it townie. It looked like the sloppy sort of claim that we have come to see from town... not well thought out, not well put together, pieces coming at different times... I mean I just dont' know if mafia claims in that manner and in a way that would obviously look scummy.

But others have put out good observations about it and have shown aside from the obvious elements why it was scummy, so I think I am still good with a joth lynch.

But I am not so sure I like the whole one of joth and walrus must be scum talk: if joth is town that just reeks of setting up two mislynches in a row...

[yuma]

If PPS is telling the truth, it's is almost certainly the case that either Joth or Walrus is scum, correct?  Sudgy had to die somehow, and being targeted by Joth and targeting Walrus seem to be the only candidates (unless there was a ninja kill, or something like that).

I'm leaning towards believing PPS's claim, so I'm pretty sure I want to lynch either Joth or Walrus.  I'm unsure which I would prefer.

No one watched Sudgy, so there could have been a third person targeting Sudgy with the kill. It does not have to be a ninja kill or anything.
But still, It is quite certain at least one of Walrus or Joth is scum.

like this^

[nkirbit]

If PPS is telling the truth, it's is almost certainly the case that either Joth or Walrus is scum, correct?  Sudgy had to die somehow, and being targeted by Joth and targeting Walrus seem to be the only candidates (unless there was a ninja kill, or something like that).

I'm leaning towards believing PPS's claim, so I'm pretty sure I want to lynch either Joth or Walrus.  I'm unsure which I would prefer.

No one watched Sudgy, so there could have been a third person targeting Sudgy with the kill. It does not have to be a ninja kill or anything.
But still, It is quite certain at least one of Walrus or Joth is scum.

Oh, you're right, for some reason I was thinking that Sudgy had been watched.  My mistake.

[jotheonah]

I agree there's no reason to assume one of Walrus or I is scum. That's a bad way of thinking.

[yuma]

I have seen a handful of people express ubertown reads on xeiron. Can anyone explain that to me. In looking over the last day it looks like the only thing that he did that was "townie" was derp hammer archetype... thought he was putting him to L-1.

Guys! Bussing is a thing, especially when it really looks like your partner is going down. Maybe he isn't the best lynch for today (and maybe he is given some of his behavior today) but giving him a pass like this and saying he is "obvtown" is bonkers.

Note this post for example:

posted very quickly after the new "arch" wagon developed with 3 votes from walrus, faust and nkirbit:

Seems like Ashersky is not viable.
Back to Vote: Walrus, then.
I prefer lynching him over Archetype.

I agree with Jotheonah that Walrus' claim is scummy.
Claiming vig is convenient for people with nightkills. Roleblocker is often a scum role.
His powers seems powerful if he is scum, not so much if he is town. It is for easy scum to roleblock town players. It is much harder to roleblock scum players, as you don't know who they are, and you might cause far more harm than good by blocking some powerful town roles. Time traveling might help here, but only quite late in the game. Vigs is also of questionable utility for town.

I give Walrus about 50 percent chance of flipping scum, and lynching him seems like a low risk-high reward deal.
If we push for another lynch we risk revealing and/or lynching a far better town role.

Distracting away from the growing arch wagon and trying to put the pressure back on walrus.

FOS to anyone suggesting that xeiron is obvtown as there may be a possibility of a scumteam there trying to give their partner maximum protection.

We don't have any idea of the number of scum we are up against right? 3 is max I would suppose... maybe 4 given we started with 4 players, although maybe we are dealing with multiball as well...

But all of that doesn't matter. Basically no one is "obvtown"

The closest I would come would be faust or nkirbit, but even then I am not willing to label them as "obvtown"

Faust I am still trying to catch up to day1.

Did you ever expand on this?

Walrus' claim is something that makes me want to unvote. Can't explain details now. Obviously, we need another wagon, so vote: Archetype. I will happily switch to e if needed, but I don't think this lynch is happening. I will not vote ashersky.

If you did, could you please link it. If you didn't, well consider whether or not you want to and choose accordingly

[pingpongsam]

But all of that doesn't matter. Basically no one is "obvtown"

*ahem EFHW

[faust]

Did you ever expand on this?

Walrus' claim is something that makes me want to unvote. Can't explain details now. Obviously, we need another wagon, so vote: Archetype. I will happily switch to e if needed, but I don't think this lynch is happening. I will not vote ashersky.

If you did, could you please link it. If you didn't, well consider whether or not you want to and choose accordingly

I did not, you can stop looking.

[faust]

So I still think having Walrus travel back to N1 and roleblock sudgy is our way to go. There's only one concern: Scum could shoot sudgy tonight, so he stays dead even if he otherwise would live. That's one hell of a confusing situation. Let me try to phrase a mod question:

If sudgy died N1, and some time-travelling role chooses N2 to travel to N1 and somehow prevents the death, and N2 sudgy dies again, do we get notified that he was alive after N1?

[faust]

Another way of getting rid of the Walrus - jotheonah situation would be to just have Walrus shoot jotheonah tonight.

[2.71828.....]

Another way of getting rid of the Walrus - jotheonah situation would be to just have Walrus shoot jotheonah tonight.

i dont want to dictate who the vig shoots.  It could very well be for the best that he shoots joth, but I don't want to say "walrus shoot joth"

[jotheonah]

I mean, if you're willing to keep me alive until night 3 I can totally prove my identity by modifier copping someone.

[xeiron]

So I still think having Walrus travel back to N1 and roleblock sudgy is our way to go. There's only one concern: Scum could shoot sudgy tonight, so he stays dead even if he otherwise would live. That's one hell of a confusing situation. Let me try to phrase a mod question:

If sudgy died N1, and some time-travelling role chooses N2 to travel to N1 and somehow prevents the death, and N2 sudgy dies again, do we get notified that he was alive after N1?

If Sudgy had targeted someone else that Walrus, this would have been the way to go. But as it is there is nothing to gain by this plan.
If Walrus is town, Sudgy died by nightkill, and rolwblocking sudgy will not help. I Walrus is scum, he can prove that by roleblocking sudgy.
But it is too optimistic to trust walrus to prove to us that he is scum. He would simply do something else, and said he targeted Sudgy.

[jotheonah]

whereas ashersky, for instance, has no way of proving his claim at all.

[faust]

So I still think having Walrus travel back to N1 and roleblock sudgy is our way to go. There's only one concern: Scum could shoot sudgy tonight, so he stays dead even if he otherwise would live. That's one hell of a confusing situation. Let me try to phrase a mod question:

If sudgy died N1, and some time-travelling role chooses N2 to travel to N1 and somehow prevents the death, and N2 sudgy dies again, do we get notified that he was alive after N1?

If Sudgy had targeted someone else that Walrus, this would have been the way to go. But as it is there is nothing to gain by this plan.
If Walrus is town, Sudgy died by nightkill, and rolwblocking sudgy will not help. I Walrus is scum, he can prove that by roleblocking sudgy.
But it is too optimistic to trust walrus to prove to us that he is scum. He would simply do something else, and said he targeted Sudgy.

Crap, of course I meant Walrus should roleblock jotheonah.

[faust]

I mean, if you're willing to keep me alive until night 3 I can totally prove my identity by modifier copping someone.

Yes, but a lot can happen until night 3.

[xeiron]

whereas ashersky, for instance, has no way of proving his claim at all.

I suspect that Ashersky has not yet fullclaimed, so it is too early to tell if there is something to be confirmed.
But for sure, an enabeler that enables someone that is not told they are enabled, is not something that can be disproven.

[Voltaire]

If sudgy died N1, and some time-travelling role chooses N2 to travel to N1 and somehow prevents the death, and N2 sudgy dies again, do we get notified that he was alive after N1?

If a player who died on N1 somehow comes back to life and then dies on N2, another flip would be posted to indicate their new death on N2.

[Voltaire]

Vote Count 2.7

jotheonah (2): yuma, pingpongsam
Walrus (1): ashersky
ashersky (2): Walrus, xeiron
pingpongsam (1): jotheonah
yuma (1): faust

Not voting (4): EFHW, Jimmmmm, nkirbit, 2.71828.....

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

D2 ends on Monday, January 6 at noon forum time

[jotheonah]

If we need a today lynch so that we can try and figure out me and Walrus with night shenanigans, why not Zoidberg Jimmmmm? He's been so lurky that he is a big giant question mark for me.

[faust]

Right, Jimmmmm.... his last post was >3 days ago.

Can we get a prod on Jimmmmm?

[Voltaire]

Jimmmmm has been prodded.