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[2.71828.....]

I do not like a Walrus lynch.

And I do not like how Archetype and Xeiron have both jumped on it the way that they have even after EFHW came out against it.

I was wrong about xeiron.  that was just my bias reading the thread too quickly and putting votes out of order in my mind

[Archetype]

The whole, "I thought walrus was towny, now I'm not sure, what the heck lets put him to l-1 anyway reeks to me of scum trying to get that final push while setting up to look innocent tomorrow. If you're really not sure, just don't vote. Being unsure is fine, but why vote then?

I voted because I didn't know when I'd leave (which I thought was then, but is actually right now) and I'd rather have a lynch go through for someone who may flip scum and no lynching if two more votes didn't happen. So I voted.

I've explained myself even though I don't acknowledge anything I did wrong. I'll be gone now until about Sunday, so I won't be able to claim (and I sure as heck am not going to now - once I claim I become practically much weaker). Reads are exactly the same exact Walrus has shifted to a scumread.

I'll plant my vote back on Vote:Walrus. I think you're wrong, EFHW.

Why did you switch to Xeiron and now back to Walrus?

Because EFHW told me to get off of it. I prefer Xeiron to Walrus, but seeing that its probably going to become a Me VS Walrus thing, I'd rather vote for Walrus since out of the two of us I'm the one who's more likely to flip Town.

[2.71828.....]

I do not like a Walrus lynch.

And I do not like how Archetype and Xeiron have both jumped on it the way that they have even after EFHW came out against it.

why don't you like that?  Are they supposed to vote like I do?

No, it is more I really don't like the lynch, and I am trying to remind again that you mentioned you dont really like it either.  As far as River Song goes, I am not a Doctor fanatic, but I have watched the most current seasons and River seems to fit very well with town Roleblocker and vigilante

[2.71828.....]

The whole, "I thought walrus was towny, now I'm not sure, what the heck lets put him to l-1 anyway reeks to me of scum trying to get that final push while setting up to look innocent tomorrow. If you're really not sure, just don't vote. Being unsure is fine, but why vote then?

I voted because I didn't know when I'd leave (which I thought was then, but is actually right now) and I'd rather have a lynch go through for someone who may flip scum and no lynching if two more votes didn't happen. So I voted.

I've explained myself even though I don't acknowledge anything I did wrong. I'll be gone now until about Sunday, so I won't be able to claim (and I sure as heck am not going to now - once I claim I become practically much weaker). Reads are exactly the same exact Walrus has shifted to a scumread.

I'll plant my vote back on Vote:Walrus. I think you're wrong, EFHW.

Why did you switch to Xeiron and now back to Walrus?

Because EFHW told me to get off of it. I prefer Xeiron to Walrus, but seeing that its probably going to become a Me VS Walrus thing, I'd rather vote for Walrus since out of the two of us I'm the one who's more likely to flip Town.

then vote xeiron.  Lets get a lynch there

[2.71828.....]

sorry i have to run, I will be back in about an hour or so, definitely before deadline

[Archetype]

The whole, "I thought walrus was towny, now I'm not sure, what the heck lets put him to l-1 anyway reeks to me of scum trying to get that final push while setting up to look innocent tomorrow. If you're really not sure, just don't vote. Being unsure is fine, but why vote then?

I voted because I didn't know when I'd leave (which I thought was then, but is actually right now) and I'd rather have a lynch go through for someone who may flip scum and no lynching if two more votes didn't happen. So I voted.

I've explained myself even though I don't acknowledge anything I did wrong. I'll be gone now until about Sunday, so I won't be able to claim (and I sure as heck am not going to now - once I claim I become practically much weaker). Reads are exactly the same exact Walrus has shifted to a scumread.

I'll plant my vote back on Vote:Walrus. I think you're wrong, EFHW.

Why did you switch to Xeiron and now back to Walrus?

Because EFHW told me to get off of it. I prefer Xeiron to Walrus, but seeing that its probably going to become a Me VS Walrus thing, I'd rather vote for Walrus since out of the two of us I'm the one who's more likely to flip Town.

then vote xeiron.  Lets get a lynch there

Dude I totally would. But out of xeiron and Walrus, Walrus is the most likely to be lynched at this point. And if I leave my vote on xeiron and aren't able to get back on, the Walrus wagon could need that one vote that I could've provided if I had stayed on his wagon.

[EFHW]

players who have voted Archetype: Jimmmmm, faust, xeiron, sudgy, Walrus, nkirbit
players who have voted xeiron: joth, Archetype, sudgy, chairs,  2.7
players who have voted Walrus: nkirbit, faust, joth, ashersky, xeiron, pps, Archetype

There is no overlap between the people voting Arch and those voting xeiron.  The walrus wagon has two Arch voters and two xeiron voters.

[nkirbit]

The whole, "I thought walrus was towny, now I'm not sure, what the heck lets put him to l-1 anyway reeks to me of scum trying to get that final push while setting up to look innocent tomorrow. If you're really not sure, just don't vote. Being unsure is fine, but why vote then?

I voted because I didn't know when I'd leave (which I thought was then, but is actually right now) and I'd rather have a lynch go through for someone who may flip scum and no lynching if two more votes didn't happen. So I voted.

I've explained myself even though I don't acknowledge anything I did wrong. I'll be gone now until about Sunday, so I won't be able to claim (and I sure as heck am not going to now - once I claim I become practically much weaker). Reads are exactly the same exact Walrus has shifted to a scumread.

I'll plant my vote back on Vote:Walrus. I think you're wrong, EFHW.

Why did you switch to Xeiron and now back to Walrus?

Because EFHW told me to get off of it. I prefer Xeiron to Walrus, but seeing that its probably going to become a Me VS Walrus thing, I'd rather vote for Walrus since out of the two of us I'm the one who's more likely to flip Town.

It's not a you vs Walrus thing, though.  I'd vote elsewhere if someone would make a good case.  I'm just very unconvinced with your behavior as of late.. it strikes me like you're trying to gain points for following the IC when you can afford to (when there isn't a wagon on you), but the instant that you start getting some pressure, you're forced back to Walrus because he's the most viable non-you wagon.

I've recently soured a lot on the Walrus lynch.  EFHW is right.. it was too easy all day.  No one really opposed it at any point until recently.  And while I still think that he was a little inconsistent in the reading of myself and Galzria, perhaps that's not that scummy.  Maybe scum double checks to see if they're consistent.  I don't think town does.

I just didn't see the urgency from you in opposing the Walrus lynch.  Your view had been that Xeiron was (and is) your top scumread, right?  Switching over to the Walrus wagon because "his claim is scummy" is just mailed in, in my opinion.  People were settling for the Walrus lynch, and I think you settled the hardest.

It really looked like the Walrus lynch was, "Meh, whatever"... and that's a symptom of a town lynch.

[EFHW]

The whole, "I thought walrus was towny, now I'm not sure, what the heck lets put him to l-1 anyway reeks to me of scum trying to get that final push while setting up to look innocent tomorrow. If you're really not sure, just don't vote. Being unsure is fine, but why vote then?

I voted because I didn't know when I'd leave (which I thought was then, but is actually right now) and I'd rather have a lynch go through for someone who may flip scum and no lynching if two more votes didn't happen. So I voted.

I've explained myself even though I don't acknowledge anything I did wrong. I'll be gone now until about Sunday, so I won't be able to claim (and I sure as heck am not going to now - once I claim I become practically much weaker). Reads are exactly the same exact Walrus has shifted to a scumread.

I'll plant my vote back on Vote:Walrus. I think you're wrong, EFHW.

Why did you switch to Xeiron and now back to Walrus?

Because EFHW told me to get off of it. I prefer Xeiron to Walrus, but seeing that its probably going to become a Me VS Walrus thing, I'd rather vote for Walrus since out of the two of us I'm the one who's more likely to flip Town.

then vote xeiron.  Lets get a lynch there

Dude I totally would. But out of xeiron and Walrus, Walrus is the most likely to be lynched at this point. And if I leave my vote on xeiron and aren't able to get back on, the Walrus wagon could need that one vote that I could've provided if I had stayed on his wagon.

Arch and everyone -- vote for who you really think is scum. 

[nkirbit]

Faust and e have been very towny lately, IMO.  Joth has been scummy.

[nkirbit]

EFHW, what do you think about the Archetype lynch?  Despite him thinking Xeiron was scum, he was L-1 on Walrus at a point when the day was far from over.

We're not going to no-lynch.  If we do, I'll be very upset, but a lot of players will be willing to move votes late to avoid a no-lynch.

I really think we should get the Archetype lynch through.  I do think he's scum, no longer think Walrus is scum.

[Twistedarcher]

Vote Count 1.13

Archetype (4): Jimmmmm, Walrus, Faust, Nkirbit
xeiron (2): sudgy, 2.7...,
Galzria (1): chairs
Walrus (5): jotheonah, ashersky, pingpongsam, Xeiron, Archetype

Not voting (2): EFHW, Yuma

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

D1 ends on Friday, December 27 at 530 PM forum time (two days added due to the original deadline falling on Christmas).

That's in ~1.5 hours.

[jotheonah]

vote:xeiron I guess. Walrus does seem easy. Seems to be a lot of support for xeiron.

[nkirbit]

vote:xeiron I guess. Walrus does seem easy. Seems to be a lot of support for xeiron.

But even more for Archetype.  Why not archetype?

[nkirbit]

So what is the case on Xeiron?  Could someone summarize it for me?

[yuma]

OK:

wife and baby are asleep and I am kinda feeling ok, so going to try and get into this game for a bit.

Have we considered a no lynch? Generally I am against no lynches. But there are two aspects of the game that make me think this could be good. 1. RMM, everyone has a role so day1 let's not kill off one of our roles (which is more likely to happen than a scum lynch) and wait til we have more info 2. the whole time travel thing, which honestly I don't understand and haven't fully read, but could I think be used to help us prevent deaths in the past? So while generally no lynch is bad I think it may be good here.

I won't vote no-lynch right now because we can just time out with a lynch. But if we aren't going to no-lynch my go to lynch right now is vote: jimmmm. I have skimmed the thread and all I can remember from him is posts that say "Promise I will do more in the future" and then never gets done. For me that is enough for a day1 lynch. But I don't know if I want to lynch anyone, just that if we do I think it should be Jimmmm or jotheonah as well... his whole "I have done scummy things, but that is my meta" post rubbed me the wrong way.

[EFHW]

EFHW, what do you think about the Archetype lynch?  Despite him thinking Xeiron was scum, he was L-1 on Walrus at a point when the day was far from over.

We're not going to no-lynch.  If we do, I'll be very upset, but a lot of players will be willing to move votes late to avoid a no-lynch.

I really think we should get the Archetype lynch through.  I do think he's scum, no longer think Walrus is scum.

You want to vote Archetype for voting Walrus, when you did as well? 

I looks to me like they could be all town.  Thoughts?

[EFHW]

yuma - What do you think about Walrus?

[yuma]

yuma - What do you think about Walrus?

as everyone will see in the speccy thread I was a part of I found him scummy initially and even voted for him there (not that you can see it now though...) but right now I just don't really see him being all that scummy.

I think some of the things people are accusing him for are silly... the spongebob joke for instance and are inflating the case against him... but I don't know if the people doing that are town or mafia as both alignments tend to do that... inflate cases.

[nkirbit]

EFHW, what do you think about the Archetype lynch?  Despite him thinking Xeiron was scum, he was L-1 on Walrus at a point when the day was far from over.

We're not going to no-lynch.  If we do, I'll be very upset, but a lot of players will be willing to move votes late to avoid a no-lynch.

I really think we should get the Archetype lynch through.  I do think he's scum, no longer think Walrus is scum.

You want to vote Archetype for voting Walrus, when you did as well? 

I looks to me like they could be all town.  Thoughts?

Well, no, I'm not voting him for voting Walrus.  I voted for Walrus because I thought he was the likeliest scum at the time I voted.  People voting for other people is never scummy by itself.

I'm voting him because of the timing of his vote.  He had been pushing the Xeiron case, and it wasn't catching on, but rather than continue to push it, he jumped on the Walrus wagon using the generic reasoning "I don't like his claim".  I don't get the people doubting his claim (the character seems scummy?  Come on.. that's the worst.  It reminds me of people doubting my burglar claim in LOTR2 because "it sounds scummy".. literally my most frustrating moment ever in f.ds mafia).  It reads null to me.. but claims under pressure always do in most normal circumstances.

Rather than trying to push for his top scum read, he appeared to settle for Walrus.. settling is a scum trait.  I was on Walrus because I thought he was scum.  I'm now backing off that, precisely because everyone seems to be okay with that lynch happening.  We would see more resistance for a Walrus lynch were he scum, I think.  Now I'm creating the resistance!

I don't find everyone on the Walrus wagon scummy.  There's assuredly more town than scum there.  But I think archetype's final push to end the day on Walrus when town him should have been fighting for Xeiron's lynch was scummy.  And he backed it up with "Well.. I'm not sure!  But vote!"  Unsure town don't move to a player at L-2.. we aren't going to no-lynch.

[jotheonah]

vote:xeiron I guess. Walrus does seem easy. Seems to be a lot of support for xeiron.

But even more for Archetype.  Why not archetype?

What is even the case against him?

[pingpongsam]

Nice, a yuma read. I've been contemplating the utility of no-lynch and I think there is merit to it. It has a huge reputation on f.ds for being of negative utility and also for being scummy to even suggest much less push for. Out of the available wagons I definitely favor Walrus. I don't even comprehend the wagon on Archetype. I can wrap my head around the xeiron wagon but I know I can't push it and would only join it to get us away from no-lynch which I am not entirely opposed to so I am not finding the motivation to switch votes.

I am assuming that time travelling in this game will pertain to night actions and that it would not be possible to time travel and reverse a lynch. So, considering that we are statistically far more likely to lynch one of our own on D1 and that would be a non-reversible event maybe no-lynch is a strong D1 play?

I am not exactly pushing it but I am soliciting discussion around the notion as opposed to everyone clapping their hands over their ears and screaming that it must always be the wrong thing to do.

[EFHW]

Would scum want a no lynch?

[nkirbit]

vote:xeiron I guess. Walrus does seem easy. Seems to be a lot of support for xeiron.

But even more for Archetype.  Why not archetype?

What is even the case against him?

He sheeped onto the Walrus wagon in a scummy wagon.  He didn't push for his top scum-read, appeared to settle for Walrus, moved back to Xeiron when the IC asked him to, moved back to Walrus as soon as he started to look like a viable lynch.  His votes have seem to been aimed to end the day, get credit for doing what the IC said, and saving himself.  Town should be voting to find scum, and his jumping between Xeiron and Archetype, especially at a point where neither of them were online and posting, didn't appear to me to convey that goal.

Did his opinion of Xeiron and Walrus flip-flop multiple times during a period in which neither of them were posting?  Or did he move his vote for other reasons than voting his top scumread through.

Town should be fighting to get their preferred lynch through, or at least digging for more information to help them find out who their preferred lynch is.  Archetype (and honestly, the town as a whole) seemed to be okay with ending the day on a mediocre lynch.  We can do better.

[pingpongsam]

Would scum want a no lynch?

I would say scum want non-reversible events, aka lynches unless said lynches were against their own.