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[Witherweaver]

Does anyone actually not believe I targeted Hydrad?  Because that's absurd.

[iguanaiguana]

Does anyone actually not believe I targeted Hydrad?  Because that's absurd.

I'll meet you half way and say I believe that you either targeted Hydrad or killed silverspawn. 

[Hydrad]

OK I think I'll go with

Vote: WW

Redirecting from me to ss. doesn't really make sense at all for scum. I don't really see why they would do that.

The only way I see it working is if like scum wanted to kill ss but had a busdriver ability and swapped me with silver? I don't really see many other options.

also no I did not take any actions.

Why do you think I'm scum?  What's your explanation here?

It just doesn't really add up to me. I can't think of a redirection that really makes sense and I believe faust over you.

[Hydrad]

hmm but then you did breadcrum early that you targetted me... I find that a bit hard to see why you did that as scum now that I think about it.

[faust]

Does anyone actually not believe I targeted Hydrad?  Because that's absurd.

Yes, I don't believe that.

[Haddock]

I think the breadcrumbing is pretty solid. I don't see scum!WW breadcrumbing like that, it leaves yoy too inflexible if you want to fakeclaim.

[faust]

I think the breadcrumbing is pretty solid. I don't see scum!WW breadcrumbing like that, it leaves yoy too inflexible if you want to fakeclaim.

There's no need to use the breadcrumb if you want to claim something else. You can always state that the Hydrad thing was reads-based. I breadcrumbed in RMM28, but I did never reference that breadcrumb and even debated claiming something else.

[Roadrunner7671]

I think Faust has behaved scummy, but I don't think I can vote for him. He doesn't seem scummy in a 'I'm Mafia' way, it's more of like 'I'm acting scummy so that I won't get night killed before I claim.' I think he's overdoing it though.

[iguanaiguana]

I think the breadcrumbing is pretty solid. I don't see scum!WW breadcrumbing like that, it leaves yoy too inflexible if you want to fakeclaim.

Ok, I thought about this last night and now I have a lot to say.

IMO the breadcrumbing as related to Hydrad has actually been pretty overblown.

Here's a pretty simple scenario:

1. scum!WW says early that he doesn't want to lynch Hydrad for a reason completely unrelated to breadcrumbing. There's all kinds of reasons to do this. Maybe scum!WW knows that it was actually a scum driven lynch, and his teammates were on wagon. Maybe Hydrad is his goon partner, who actually didn't do anything last night, and he was already planning to claim this fake result to help clear him. 

2. When scum!WW finds out that Faust has a result on him, he decides that his best shot at getting out of the lynch is to make up a story and claim that he breadcrumbed    it. He looks back and sees his recent post saying he doesn't want Hydrad lynched, and decides to claim that he was targetting Hydrad, not silverspawn. He knows this is a response that most people are not expecting, and for that reason he hopes it will seem more authentic.

All of that being said, its also still quite possible that Faust is the one lying. In that case, its even more simple: Faust or a teammate killed silverspawn last night and he decided to make up a completely bogus result to get a town member killed and throw a lot of unneeded confusion into the mix. 

I was talked into voting away from WW/Faust last night but now I think that's a bad idea. The chances that scum used some sort of redirection on one of them to mess with their result is a lot smaller than the chance that one of them is just lying to us. No special attention was paid to WW or Faust last night, so for scum to use redirection on them and create exactly this screwed up result would have made them very, very lucky.

I am willing to vote for either of them at this point. And I think if we hit town the first time, we absolutely should lynch the other one tomorrow. If scum used redirection here it puts us really, really behind, but Faust brought up a good point. If that's what scum did, shouldn't they have been pushing for the double mislynch? The fact that no one has pushed for that makes me suspicious and I think it is strong evidence that one or the other of them is scum.

[yuma]

I had a town read on iguana. It is gone. Vote: iguana

[yuma]

And I think if we hit town the first time, we absolutely should lynch the other one tomorrow...... shouldn't they have been pushing for the double mislynch? The fact that no one has pushed for that makes me suspicious and I think it is strong evidence that one or the other of them is scum.

Says pushing for a double mislynch is something scum would do. Pushes for a double mislynch. Plus it is just a totally bad idea

[Teproc]

Always the problem with "scum isn't pushing for the mislynch, therefore these guys must be scum". As soon as you make this argument it becomes invalid.

And the reasoning of "if oneof them lynches town we should lynch the other one" is precisely why we shouldn't lynch one of them.

[Roadrunner7671]

And I think if we hit town the first time, we absolutely should lynch the other one tomorrow...... shouldn't they have been pushing for the double mislynch? The fact that no one has pushed for that makes me suspicious and I think it is strong evidence that one or the other of them is scum.

Says pushing for a double mislynch is something scum would do. Pushes for a double mislynch. Plus it is just a totally bad idea

Ha! Nice catch. Oh boy, Iguanaiguana is starting to look not so good anymore...

[2.71828.....]

Also, points 1 and 2....not buying those stories

[iguanaiguana]

Lovely. We spend over 5 pages talking about the all the possibilities of redirection, and now I am scummy for pointing out how unlikely it is that any of that actually happened.

[Teproc]

Lovely. We spend over 5 pages talking about the all the possibilities of redirection, and now I am scummy for pointing out how unlikely it is that any of that actually happened.

I didn't think that post was scummy, but blatantly misrepresenting why other people find you scummy definitely is.

[iguanaiguana]

Lovely. We spend over 5 pages talking about the all the possibilities of redirection, and now I am scummy for pointing out how unlikely it is that any of that actually happened.

I didn't think that post was scummy, but blatantly misrepresenting why other people find you scummy definitely is.

You didn't, but Yuma definitely did.

And I think if we hit town the first time, we absolutely should lynch the other one tomorrow...... shouldn't they have been pushing for the double mislynch? The fact that no one has pushed for that makes me suspicious and I think it is strong evidence that one or the other of them is scum.

Says pushing for a double mislynch is something scum would do. Pushes for a double mislynch. Plus it is just a totally bad idea

I said in my post that we should lynch these players because redirection is very unlikely to have happened the way that it needed to in order for both Faust/WW to be telling the truth. This is consistent to what I have been saying this entire time, except I have now said it in more detail and with more conviction. Yuma claims that I am now 'pushing for a double mislynch.' In other words, Yuma thinks I am scum because I said that redirection is unlikely and we need to lynch in Faust/WW.

If it looks like I am intentionally misrepresenting, I am sorry but that was not my intention.

[yuma]

If you want to lynch WW/Faust then pick the scummiest and vote for one. Depending on how that players flips I will have a read on you tomorrow.

And maybe the correct course of action will be to lynch the other, but to say that we "absolutely" must lynch the other is a scummy statement. Because is absolves you from any responsibility tomorrow, and if it is another mislynch, will.... as you say put town in an extraordinary behind position where many players will lack full responsibility because the second lynch was a necessity because of the second.

I feel like that argument is going to come from scum. I felt that faust was a bit pre-mature in his analysis that these opinions weren't coming forward (only 24 hours since claims + weekend isn't enough time to see how people are going to react after analyzing the situation)

[yuma]

Also feel like I should point out that by choosing Hydrad as the person WW targeted, if fake, he allowed for himself to be counterclaimed by Hydrad, had hydrad targeted anyone during the night or if anyone had targeted Hydrad during the night.

That is a risk (unless WW is a scum motion detector or unless Hydrad is WW's partner in which he still coundln't have known if anyone hadn't targeted Hydrad) that is significant and makes his claim more believable compared to other roles that can't be as easily counter claimed.

[Roadrunner7671]

WW/Faust scum team.

[yuma]

WW/Faust/RR scum team.

Fixed that for you

[Roadrunner7671]

WW/Faust/RR/Yuma/Ashersky scum team.

Fixed that for you

Fixed.

[faust]

It is definitely weird that iguana comes pushing for WW/me shortly after I use the "noone's pushing that, so there's scum here" argument... did he just wait for someone to make that argument? Seems unlikely. But it certainly gives me an uneasy feeling.

[2.71828.....]

WW/Faust/RR/Yuma/Ashersky scum team.

Fixed that for you

Fixed.

That's a lot of scum

[faust]

On the other hand, "setting up mislynches" always struck me as a sort of pseudo scumtell. I don't do that as scum, and I don't know who does. It's something that people always get upset about, even though it never happens that the person "set up" is instalynched on the following day. I just don't buy it as a scumtell.