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[nkirbit]

Thanks pps and 2.7 for your posts. 

ashersky - are you lurking?

I'm still thinking about sudgy's question re: announcing his target.  Others' opinions?

I don't know. If sudgy was a time traveler, it'd be a difficult question to answer. If sudgy travels to scum night 5, dies, and then we lynch scum night 3, does he come back to life?  If so, that makes sudgy traveling far in the future and not telling us okay, I guess.

But if he's not going to announce his target, claiming was just poor, right?  Sudgy, why would you consider that claim without announcing your target.

Sudgy announcing his target is also very, very manipulatable depending on which prs scum have. If scum have a bus driver, for instance, or some way to manipulate results, sudgy announcing his target could result in disaster.

I lean towards not wanting sudgy to announce a target, but I really really wish he just hadnt claimed in the first place. And people should stop claiming. Look at modern family, where town practically mass claimed and it resulted in scum absolutely destroying town in night actions (killing walrus the night he got a result, knowing exactly when to use both godfather and bulletproof on dsell, etc). Town claiming gave mafia easy choices to manipulate nights, and never helped town at all.. I'm worried that's where we're headed here.

[sudgy]

You say this has little to do with the recent votes on you, but why did you wait until you had votes on you to claim this?

I've been thinking about it.

Also, sudgy:

What does your pm say with regards to a sk.  Does it mention mafia specifically, or evil in general, or something like that?

It says anti-town.

Also, if I don't announce my target, and I die, somebody could go back in time and save me (roleblocking me would work, doccing me wouldn't).  I forgot to mention that.

[pingpongsam]

I'm still interested to hear chairs' SK suspicions. This weak role of sudgy's fits well with a SK.

[ashersky]

No, not lurking.  Weekend.

It's Monday morning, will catch up and respond accordingly.

On sudgy'sclaim, easily verifiable, once he's dead, but impossible otherwise.  Nice for scum, as he can clear his partners at night until he dies, then has Wifom until then.

Also, as chairs mentions, so easily manipulated.  Announce town target?  Scum kills him to paint a target.

I don't really like the claim.  Scum!sudgy likes plans and fake claims, too.

[xeiron]

Thanks pps and 2.7 for your posts. 

ashersky - are you lurking?

I'm still thinking about sudgy's question re: announcing his target.  Others' opinions?

I say using Sudgy as a cop is probably the best way he can use his role. If he hit scum and die we are way better of if we know who he targeted. The chance of catching scum probably outweights any disadvantages of having scum know who he is going to target.
He can either announce his target beforehand, or give some alternatives tied to his real- and some fake flavornames.  So that we will only know who he targeted when he flips.

Exemple:
Say before night: if my flavorname starts with

S - target Archetype
B - target nkirbit
D - target chairs

Now, scum does not know who sudgy will target, and if the day comes and sudgy is dead and flips Susan foreman , we know he targeted Archetype.
If he can timetravel, he should state which night he travels to.

[ashersky]

Archetype wagon does look a little less scummy on re-read. Give us some guidance, IC.

Trying to sheep the IC? Scumtell. Vote: jotheonah

Who is this new Faust?  I like it!

[ashersky]

Nevermind on vote count, I missed the one earlier on page.

vote: xeiron

I think the overall argument for xeiron's lynch is more than reasonable.

Saying something like this so early into the game is very strange.

Above that, considering chairs, his claim to become a tree stump might be correct and he could still be scum. Scum tree stump seems less bastardly to me than town tree stump anyway.

I disagree; in my opinion scum tree stump is Bastard bait.

Bastard is a bit harsh, both of you.

Tree stumps are definitely town, in practice, though.  They usually cannot be lynched, so it isn't fair to town unless they have an alternate way of killing.

[ashersky]

No access until further notice.

Managed to get a little time. I'll have no access until Monday at the earliest.

No idea whats going on in the game, but very sorry to everyone. I'll make an effort to stay up to date when i get back.

I'd say scummy, but he posted in the VLA thread, right?

[ashersky]

Archetype wagon does look a little less scummy on re-read. Give us some guidance, IC.

Trying to sheep the IC? Scumtell. Vote: jotheonah

ICs are natural leaders. Why shouldn't we trust the one person we can trust? It would be different if that were my only post, but I think I've been sheeping along pretty solidly.

Because, if everyone waits for the IC to lead, we don't have much to analyze. Moreover, hiding behind the IC's opinion can be a good way to avoid having to take positions on your own.

This is correct.  The more people get out in front of the IC with reads, the better.

[ashersky]

sudgy today reminds me of sk!sudgy in dynasty warriors I.

vote: sudgy.

Can you elaborate? I think this setup very well could contain an SK. What are the parallels?

Is there a public reason you think that?  If so, share.

[xeiron]

Scum might want to kill sudgy during the night if they think he will target town. If they do, Sudgys target will look very sucpicious.
Because of this any watchers or voyeurs among us should strongly consider to target Sudgy, so that they can catch a NK.

[ashersky]

(This post is not in response to the votes I got)

I'm going to partially claim.  I have been thinking about it, and I think it is in town's best interests.

My role has the "weak" modifier.  This means, that when I target somebody at night, if I target the mafia, I die.

Now, this can be used as a cop.  Either I announce my target the night before, then we see if I die (but in RMM, it would be hard to know), or if I die somebody can go back in time to save me (a roleblocker could do that).

EFHW, do you think I should announce my target each night?

You say this has little to do with the recent votes on you, but why did you wait until you had votes on you to claim this?

I've been thinking about it.

Also, sudgy:

What does your pm say with regards to a sk.  Does it mention mafia specifically, or evil in general, or something like that?

It says anti-town.

Also, if I don't announce my target, and I die, somebody could go back in time and save me (roleblocking me would work, doccing me wouldn't).  I forgot to mention that.

Contradicting yourself much?  You explicitly said "the mafia" in your claim.  You changed your claim in a subsequent post to "anti-town."  Using the article "the" in your first claim is indicative here.  It says you have absolute knowledge and not just speculation.

Sloppy fake claim?  Lying as town?  Both are terrible.  The first is more likely, given what your post says about your subconscious and conscious knowledge.

[ashersky]

And I'm caught up.

vote: sudgy

I think he's been caught in his own fake claim web.

[sudgy]

Thanks pps and 2.7 for your posts. 

ashersky - are you lurking?

I'm still thinking about sudgy's question re: announcing his target.  Others' opinions?

I say using Sudgy as a cop is probably the best way he can use his role. If he hit scum and die we are way better of if we know who he targeted. The chance of catching scum probably outweights any disadvantages of having scum know who he is going to target.
He can either announce his target beforehand, or give some alternatives tied to his real- and some fake flavornames.  So that we will only know who he targeted when he flips.

Exemple:
Say before night: if my flavorname starts with

S - target Archetype
B - target nkirbit
D - target chairs

Now, scum does not know who sudgy will target, and if the day comes and sudgy is dead and flips Susan foreman , we know he targeted Archetype.
If he can timetravel, he should state which night he travels to.

I like this.  I'll do this.


Also, ash, when I read my PM, I don't try to commit it to memory.  I usually think of anti-town and mafia as pretty close to synonymous, even if it's not right.  Mafia stuck in my mind when I claimed, then when xeiron asked, I looked at my PM and saw it said anti-town.

When will yuma come here and post his quote about scumslips? 

[Voltaire]

Vote Count 1.5

Archetype (2): Jimmmmm, xeiron
xeiron (2): Archetype, sudgy
nkirbit (2): Walrus, jotheonah
Walrus (1): nkirbit
sudgy (3): pingpongsam, chairs, ashersky

Not voting (4): 2.7..., EFHW, faust, Galzria

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

D1 ends on Friday, December 27 at 530 PM forum time (two days added due to the original deadline falling on Christmas)

[ashersky]

Thanks pps and 2.7 for your posts. 

ashersky - are you lurking?

I'm still thinking about sudgy's question re: announcing his target.  Others' opinions?

I say using Sudgy as a cop is probably the best way he can use his role. If he hit scum and die we are way better of if we know who he targeted. The chance of catching scum probably outweights any disadvantages of having scum know who he is going to target.
He can either announce his target beforehand, or give some alternatives tied to his real- and some fake flavornames.  So that we will only know who he targeted when he flips.

Exemple:
Say before night: if my flavorname starts with

S - target Archetype
B - target nkirbit
D - target chairs

Now, scum does not know who sudgy will target, and if the day comes and sudgy is dead and flips Susan foreman , we know he targeted Archetype.
If he can timetravel, he should state which night he travels to.

I like this.  I'll do this.


Also, ash, when I read my PM, I don't try to commit it to memory.  I usually think of anti-town and mafia as pretty close to synonymous, even if it's not right.  Mafia stuck in my mind when I claimed, then when xeiron asked, I looked at my PM and saw it said anti-town.

When will yuma come here and post his quote about scumslips? 

I don't know.  I didn't mention any scumslips, as I haven't seen any.  Are you admitting you made one? 

Also, emoticon = scum, too.

As for the "I don't memorize my PM" thing, that's just a huge lie.  You are quite the PM studier.  I know, from modding multiple times.

[nkirbit]

Thanks pps and 2.7 for your posts. 

ashersky - are you lurking?

I'm still thinking about sudgy's question re: announcing his target.  Others' opinions?

I say using Sudgy as a cop is probably the best way he can use his role. If he hit scum and die we are way better of if we know who he targeted. The chance of catching scum probably outweights any disadvantages of having scum know who he is going to target.
He can either announce his target beforehand, or give some alternatives tied to his real- and some fake flavornames.  So that we will only know who he targeted when he flips.

Exemple:
Say before night: if my flavorname starts with

S - target Archetype
B - target nkirbit
D - target chairs

Now, scum does not know who sudgy will target, and if the day comes and sudgy is dead and flips Susan foreman , we know he targeted Archetype.
If he can timetravel, he should state which night he travels to.

I like this.  I'll do this.


Also, ash, when I read my PM, I don't try to commit it to memory.  I usually think of anti-town and mafia as pretty close to synonymous, even if it's not right.  Mafia stuck in my mind when I claimed, then when xeiron asked, I looked at my PM and saw it said anti-town.

When will yuma come here and post his quote about scumslips? 

I don't think this works, actually.  If scum just kills Sudgy, anyone he targets will be under suspicion, even though his death could have been from a NK while targeting a town member.

I agree with Ashersky here.  This doesn't feel like a town claim.  Suppose Sudgy is a weak doctor, or a weak cop, or something of that sort.  I just don't believe that over a matter of days, he sits down and comes to the conclusion that he should claim what he did.  It just doesn't make any sense.  It's so easily manipulated by scum.  If Sudgy says "I'm targeting player X", that's bad, because mafia can kill Sudgy and put player x under suspicion.  If Sudgy has some sort of hidden mechanism, well, they can just kill him and hope he landed on a town member (odds are he will, because there's more town!).  The hiding situation from Clue only came up because of a very specific set of circumstances, and only worked with hider.  This just doesn't work, and doesn't come close to working.

I'm with Ashersky that this is a fakeclaim.  The narrative I'm seeing is that Sudgy started to get some pressure, saw the credibility that Chairs and Ashersky had at least somewhat received from claiming, and tried to get a piece of the action.

Maybe Sudgy is town and just made a horrible decision to claim.  It's possible, but I hope not.  Him coming out and asking about what he should do sort of indicates to me that he really hadn't thought through all the possibilities of his role, because not claiming is just so much blatantly better than claiming that I don't believe that anyone who actually was thinking about it as a weak PR would come to the conclusion Sudgy did.  It reminds me of Mail-Mi in Harry Potter.. he was fake-claiming scum who had obviously just not thought through the process of claiming from the view of a town member.

Vote: Sudgy

[pingpongsam]

sudgy today reminds me of sk!sudgy in dynasty warriors I.

vote: sudgy.

Can you elaborate? I think this setup very well could contain an SK. What are the parallels?

Yeah, I have nothing privately leading me towards this. The time travel mechanic and the fact that it is role MADNESS and we are talking about Voltaire, here, I don't think he could resist. That we got an IC bolsters Town. So I was already contemplating who amongst us might possibly be SK and well, how the heck do you detect an SK during the day, especially D1? Then chairs comes along saying sudgy is looking SKish so I wanted to hear about that, and I still do.

Is there a public reason you think that?  If so, share.

[sudgy]

Ash, the "scumslip" was you saying that I said mafia the first time and scum the second time.

I study my PMs not trying to memorize them, but in other ways.  I asked Volt what would happen if I got roleblocked or docced, trying to find ways that I could get saved.

I was thinking, someone could go back in time and try to save me.  If I get saved, we catch scum.  If I don't, I got killed.

[ashersky]

Ash, the "scumslip" was you saying that I said mafia the first time and scum the second time.

That's not a scumslip.  A scumslip is accidentally say you are scum, a la Frisk's 0% chance of flipping town.

What you did was an inconsistency to your fake claim that I picked up on.

[jotheonah]

Question for the sudgy wagon: why would he be fake claiming right now day one? What's the end game?

I feel like sometimes we get like noob poker players who are excited to catch someone bluffing, and then forget that we also have nothing in our hands, so we can't call it anyway.

So sudgy's claim has some holes in it if he's town ... but what kind of sense does it make if he's scum? He didn't have THAT much pressure on him.

It's not that I'm against the lynch, but I'm a little baffled.

[ashersky]

Question for the sudgy wagon: why would he be fake claiming right now day one? What's the end game?

I feel like sometimes we get like noob poker players who are excited to catch someone bluffing, and then forget that we also have nothing in our hands, so we can't call it anyway.

So sudgy's claim has some holes in it if he's town ... but what kind of sense does it make if he's scum? He didn't have THAT much pressure on him.

It's not that I'm against the lynch, but I'm a little baffled.

If you are giving sudgy that much of a "d1 early claim derp pass" then that runs counter to any suspicion you may have shown about me or chairs.

Sudgy isn't a newb.  He's been in like 20 games.  He can gambit like anyone.

[jotheonah]

Question for the sudgy wagon: why would he be fake claiming right now day one? What's the end game?

I feel like sometimes we get like noob poker players who are excited to catch someone bluffing, and then forget that we also have nothing in our hands, so we can't call it anyway.

So sudgy's claim has some holes in it if he's town ... but what kind of sense does it make if he's scum? He didn't have THAT much pressure on him.

It's not that I'm against the lynch, but I'm a little baffled.

If you are giving sudgy that much of a "d1 early claim derp pass" then that runs counter to any suspicion you may have shown about me or chairs.

Sudgy isn't a newb.  He's been in like 20 games.  He can gambit like anyone.

It's such a dumb claim for scum though. Even if we bought it, town could have a cop who can just check it at night. No way he gets away with it. And what does he get out of it?

[jotheonah]

Are day 1 scum fake claims a part of the F.DS meta now? Because when I left day 1 claims in general were kind of not a thing. ITT we've had 3 without anyone even getting near L1.

[EFHW]

Catching up.  Having dinner now, then I'll be back.