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Messages - Dsell

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5951
Adore:
Wharf
Fishing Village
Ambassador
Scrying Pool (I'm so bad with it though)
Border Village
Goons
Crossroads
Most any engine enabler or alternate vp rush enabler

Abhor:
Saboteur (I know I should ignore them but I swear they are attracted to my provinces)
Tournament
Black Market
Ghost Ship (These games are just a pain and I'm baaaad with them)

5952
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201205/07/game-20120507-112217-857c7974.html

So. If any game can feel absolutely futile, this was it. My opponents (two of my irl dominion friends) both opened 5/2 on a ghost ship board. I didn't hit $5 until turn thirteen. Fortunately for me, my opponents only had one ghost ship apiece, and so while I was way behind, I started hitting them with ghost ship pretty often and slowing them down. I had tons of shanty towns because I was buying them liberally early as a GS counter (which wasn't the best, silver may have let me hit $5 earlier, but it worked out so hey). Around turn 8 I decided there was no chance that I could compete for colonies, so I started picking up potions hoping for vineyards eventually.

No +buy meant that picking up actions and especially vineyards was slow. Having shanty town, masquerade (which became a real liability for me later) and apothecary as the only actions under $5 made it even slower, though the virtual +buy from jester was nice a couple of times.

I made a couple mistakes too, like picking up province over vineyard in turn 34 (I had no idea they'd be worth so much, no point counter), trashing a curse instead of passing it turn 35, and I'm sure others.

Anyway, I thought this was a really cool example of how vineyards could still work on a board that was really not the best for vineyards (colony, expensive actions, no +buys) if you just slow the game down enough.

5953
Feedback / Re: Titles
« on: May 07, 2012, 10:32:02 pm »
The only special ones so far are Game Designer, Isotropic Designer, and 2011 Champion. 

Don't forget Administrator! You are special too. :D



And there's moderator, but that's not quite as fun...

5954
Introductions / Re: 4 days, 0 minutes
« on: May 06, 2012, 09:51:29 pm »
For me, I treat Cosmic Encounters as the opposite to Nuclear War. In the former, we (generally) consider it a success if as many people win at the same time as possible.

Oh man, not us. I get the feeling that every group has their own way of playing, but we tend to be helpful and wonderfully diplomatic up until someone gets their fourth planet. Then, with relatively few exceptions, they are on their own, with every ship and card people can spare going up against them. Sure, it drags the game on a bit, but it does give you a real sense of accomplishment when you finally do win (especially when you absolutely obliterate everything your 5 opponents can muster against you).

I do remember one game though, that was just an absolute stalemate. After 5 hours, I ended up trading four planets with someone for the shared win, and only because our guests had to leave. :P

5955
Introductions / Re: 4 days, 0 minutes
« on: May 05, 2012, 12:58:41 pm »
I, too, enjoy Cosmic Encounter, though it's a very strange game.  I don't know how to put my finger on it but it's just very ... unique.  In a good way.

It seems to really depend on the group you play with. In a lively group, it's crazy and extremely tense nearly every time. But I agree, I think it's unique in that you can gang up on the leader, occasionally has glaring balance issues, and sometimes you never even get a turn...and it's still great. A few house rules (we play with double powers, hidden until used) can really enhance the game too.

I think what I love most about that game is that it's so very different each time, keeping the flavor and interactions fresh.

5956
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Friendship is Magic!
« on: May 04, 2012, 04:45:46 pm »
The wording on several of these is confusing.

Grand Galloping Gala should be rephrased to match Grand Market -- "You can't buy this if you have any Gold in play."

I agree that's it's a bit confusing, but the card actually says it's buyable if there are no non-gold treasures in play, meaning it can only be bought with gold and cards that give +coins.

5957
Variants and Fan Cards / Re: Dominion: Friendship is Magic!
« on: May 04, 2012, 02:27:32 pm »
These are totally hilarious. And some pretty cool effects!

These "help everyone" cards seem to really encourage the game to a fast end (if something like Governor is any indication)...

This was my first thought. There are only three attacks and of those: Showboater doesn't actually hurt your opponents, Paraspite doesn't actually hurt your opponents, and Cutie Mark is a fairly tame cursing attack, in some situations giving out only one curse AND letting that play draw three cards. And there are lots of cards which are powerful and help opponents, which will generally lead to extremely fast games. Considering that, Friendship doesn't seem like it'd generally be worth going for, by the time you can get a reasonable amount, the game will be almost over.

^All that said, I feel like this set needs a card that would absolutely sit on the game (or at least an ordinary, ponyless game) to counteract all the drawing. Something that's cheap enough to get bought fast but will slow the game even more than ghost ship, sea hag, etc. With all the friendship and drawing going around, the games might still be quick, but it could at least let friendship play a larger part.

Also, any of these cards paired with militia/goons is the opposite of friendship.

5958
Introductions / 4 days, 0 minutes
« on: May 04, 2012, 01:31:17 am »
Hi, I'm Dsell and I've spent 4 days and 0 minutes looking at this forum (well, a tad more now). Wow. I started playing Dominion a whole bunch in real life back in January, and started reading f.ds and playing on isotropic about the same time in early march. This is a pretty awesome community here and I've learned SO much from the contributions of the members and from playing (well, mostly losing to...) you guys as well.

I love board games of all types (shout out to Cosmic Encounter!) and I really want to try to become a top Dominion player someday. Also, I think it's WAY cool that the master himself, Donald X. frequents the forums. I still pause in reverential awe every time I see one of his posts.

Overall, 4 days well spent!

5959
GokoDom / Re: Kirian's Bracket, Week 2
« on: May 03, 2012, 04:30:13 pm »
Here's the result of the week 2 match between Duck Sauce/Nicki Menagerie and I.

Dsell: 5 wins, Nicki Menagerie: 2 wins

Game 1: Dsell 19, Nicki Menagerie 14
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201205/03/game-20120503-120549-be3b9436.html
Ironworks/great hall/crossroads rush. I'm not the best at these, but all the pieces were there for a super fast rush. I think extra ironworks early helped me.

Game 2: Dsell 34, Nicki Menagerie 34
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120503-121313-8f853e56.html
I went straight up Masq/BM (2nd masq might have sped the game up?), while NM was going for a lot more pieces. NM accidentally tied it, and I won on turns.

Game 3: Dsell 34, Nicki Menagerie 35
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120503-122322-2cf0da18.html
I did boring old minions, but despite having an unfortunate envoy, NM pulls out the win by a point.

Game 4: Dsell 39, Nicki Menagerie 44
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201205/03/game-20120503-123456-30378115.html
Torturer/bazaar. I went early shanty towns, which was probably a mistake. Not good with torturer usually, but they didn't seem too bad here...I think NM had a more focused strategy though.

Game 5: Dsell 28, Nicki Menagerie 26
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120503-124256-58c64d2c.html
Minions again, but this time not boring! I lose the minion split 4/6, but trashing from lookout really shines and makes a difference here. Caravans also come through for me in a big way. Love that skinny minions deck!

Game 6: Dsell 29, Nicki Menagerie 23
http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20120503-124927-5592ac50.html
I think my strategy was kinda interesting here. Probably stupid, but interesting, and hey it worked out. I opened masquerade, but then again tried shanty town/torturer, and I knoooow it's a bad village but I just really wanted it to work! I think I got very lucky here to activate shanty town as much as I did, and probably to win the whole game in general. NM does masq with a few other terminals thrown in, which should have countered torturer pretty well (2nd masq may have been death to my torturers).

Game 7: Dsell 41, Nicki Menagerie 32
Torturers/cities. The luck really seemed to be shifting around in this game. I had a terrible first reshuffle, 4/4 and then baron whiffing and missing the reshuffle. Then I hit a lucky 5 copper hand with mint (and harem) on the board, which let me thin my deck a lot, which I ultimately think was a big part of the win. I still trailed NM's superior city and torturer stack most of the game, but after I broke PPR in hopes of a comeback, NM hit a terribly unlucky hand which netted only duchy.

Thanks, Nicki Menagerie/Duck Sauce! These games were really tense and close, and several of them had interesting end games. Intriguing match overall!  :P (I'm sorry...I had to...)

Edit: typos

Edit: added councilroom links and game descriptions

5960
The best way, IMO, to keep track if your actions IRL is to build a simple tree with your cards.  See attached.  You instantly know whether you have more actions by looking at the leaf nodes.  Do they say +Action?  Then you have that many actions left.

Yeah, this is exactly what I do! Thanks for the graphic! It works well for us.

5961
In that case, here's one - long Villager/Market/Laboratory/etc. chains when playing in person. It can be hard to determine the number of actions. I have a method for doing it - you count one for yourself, add up all the +actions on all cards in play, and then subtract one for each action in play - but it slows things down and sometimes causes problems if someone plays so many Villages he just assumes he has unlimited actions when in fact he might go over by one.
This is a little off topic, but another good method for this would be to say aloud how many actions you have left after you play each card, i.e. I have 1 action, now I play a Village so I have 2 actions, now I play moat and have 1 action, etc.

Again off topic, but IRL I like to stagger action cards based on how many actions a card gives me. So a lab chain would be a straight line of cards. But a village/smithy chain would grow vertically as well as horizontally: a smithy is played next to the top half of the village and another village next to the bottom half. We do the same for KC and TR. This could be an issue with limited space or especially large chains, but it's a good way to visually keep track of how many actions are left.

5962
Rules Questions / Re: Fool's Gold/Possession interaction
« on: May 01, 2012, 01:17:47 pm »
Another cool reason would be if you had some weird deck that you could draw every turn where you amassed 3 FG but had no +buys. You play two FG, buy a Mint and soon enough are KC'ing the Mint to gain more FG/turn than you could have otherwise. This one is somehow even more farfetched than WW's idea, though.

But that reasoning works with any Treasure, not just FG, and the fact that SOME Treasure autoplays implys that this reasoning is too farfetched to matter.

Right, it's often important to manually play treasure when buying mint, even if it would autoplay ordinarily. But in a province game with no +buy, why go for the mint? 3 FG is enough to buy province and if you draw your whole deck every turn the mint would be a waste of time. Even in a colony game, buying one more FG is faster than mint. Wouldn't mint and excessive FG clog your engine anyway?

5963
GokoDom / Re: Kirian's Bracket, Week 4
« on: April 30, 2012, 04:31:42 am »
Man, alchemy is rough. I really appreciated the games with rspeer and the conversations during games, he definitely showed me that I have a thing or eight to learn about to alchemy-dominated sets. That said, there were a couple heartbreakers in the set and I hope I didn't embarrass myself too much--several of the games were actually pretty close and tense, or at least were until near the end.

Game 1 - Total heartbreaker. Possession ended up being key, especially at the end with the vineyards hand. Huge mistake in breaking ppr on my part, I actually didn't realize that I was until immediately after I did.

Game 2 - rspeer is exactly right, herbalists were the star of the show. I knew they would be good but he got more, and sooner. Things looked good at first but he completely negated my ghost ships with a flood of herbalist/potion/vineyard buys quick and I just couldn't make up the difference.

Game 3 - Major embarrassment. I thought chapel/bridge might be slightly better than opening potion here, which was dead wrong. They also collided a ton. I was struggling to get to potion at first but then completely spaced and bought two in a row without realizing. I later bought the third thinking it was just my second. Of course I then had two hands with three potions and not much else. My gameplan looked a lot like his but I fell apart and he executed very well. The transmutes were a complete move of desperation to try and power up vineyards and snatch them before he could. Epic. Fail.

Game 4 - Looked good at first, but rspeer was right, expand was awesome and golem was a great enabler. I focused too much on apothecaries and just ended up spinning my wheels most of the game.

Game 5 - Another heartbreaker. I had next to no money, going for double tactician with conspirator (so did he). It worked well for a while and was really tense. It seemed to unravel as our decks grew larger though, that is until the philosopher's stone came from nowhere! He broke ppr but it was absolutely the right choice as my deck was pretty terrible and was not going to hit province without a tactician. Then of course his last turn was pretty crazy lucky, but I think he was going to get the win at that point anyway. Down 4-0, I was hoping he would go for the tie.  ::)

Game 6 - Another one that seemed pretty good at first, but then he just started running away with it. I'm not exactly sure what did it for him, but I think the golems and extra menageries must have helped.

Game 7 - Yay! And on my last chance to redeem myself. Fitting that it was a really tense game, too. I got out to a nice lead, but a couple of risky but smart plays allowed him to close the gap some at the end. I made a huge error not ending the game with a win on turn 25 by buying scrying pool. I thought I was going to pay for it and lose when he developed himself into the lead next turn. Fortunately I had a good (read: lucky) last hand that let me give him 2 curses and end the game with a win. Lighthouse was an absolute gem: it was a familiar board and I never received a curse. (This was lucky, too, because I ended up giving him six even though we both had 5 lighthouses and 2 familiars.)

All in all, I learned a lot and really enjoyed it. Thanks for giving me my first Dominion tournament match, rspeer!!

5964
Game Reports / Re: Interesting Possession interactions
« on: April 27, 2012, 05:09:45 pm »
Someone should make a list of cards that are dangerous to buy if your opponent has possession. Ambassador and masquerade are notorious, island can be terrible, transmute and herbalist are bad/good (depending on your perspective) too. What other dangerous and fun interactions are out there? Cartographer and navigator can be liabilities if your opponent is able to ruin your next hand.

5965
Game Reports / Re: Ridiculous endgame dancing
« on: April 24, 2012, 08:29:55 pm »
Oh yeah I'd never open outpost. But it might have been a good buy if I'd missed province after getting my alchemists going pretty reliably. The game logs from isotropic don't work for me so I can't see if I actually had an opportunity like that, but maybe it would have been worth skipping gold for outpost once.

5966
Game Reports / Re: Ridiculous endgame dancing
« on: April 24, 2012, 08:16:32 pm »
Outpost is a great idea. It just might have won the game for me. Although I'd considered it as an opening (I REALLY hate contraband...) I didn't even think of it during the game. Even the times when I didn't get all the alchemists on my deck, it would have helped me cycle towards more of them sooner.

5967
Game Reports / Ridiculous endgame dancing
« on: April 24, 2012, 06:13:38 pm »
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/24/game-20120424-150717-b2ad16ab.html

I played this game with my experimental account, so I was totally fine with going for a strategy that seemed crazy. Contraband on the 5/2 into alchemists was actually pretty fun! (On my normal account I probably would have opened jack/pawn or jack/nothing) My opponent was going for spies and big money mostly, I think, and I'm sure doublejack would have beaten me quicker. But the notable thing about this game was the ridiculous amount of endgame dancing I did with contrabanding into doubleduchy and fairgrounds/estate or great hall. The last several turns especially were super tense, and at one point I could have tied the score by buying the last province but would have lost on turns. I ended up losing anyway, but it was pretty crazy that the game came down to a pawn draw (gah if only I'd gotten silver!) and contraband plays.

5968
Dominion General Discussion / Re: No more torturer for us!
« on: April 24, 2012, 04:52:29 am »
I completely don't understand the score graph though, what's going on there?

The logs don't report cards getting passed around with Masquerade. So when VP cards that got passed by Masq get trashed, their value gets subtracted from the score of the wrong guy.

That makes sense. Masquerade-heavy games are pretty confusing with the logs since it doesn't tell you what's being passed. Never seen a score graph like that, though, good to know.

5969
Dominion General Discussion / Re: No more torturer for us!
« on: April 24, 2012, 04:51:16 am »
I guess I don't know exactly what I'd do either...buy coppers and pass them to your opponent to have them immediately pass them back and trash it? Fifty turns later you can *not* trash the copper, buy another, and then estate the next turn? Then another copper to end it? And that's assuming two piles were already gone... (the same could be done with curses I guess) It seems a lot easier when you have goons...

5970
Dominion General Discussion / Re: No more torturer for us!
« on: April 24, 2012, 04:47:02 am »
Asklepios, I feel your pain. That log is about as depressing as dominion gets. I completely don't understand the score graph though, what's going on there?

5971
GokoDom / Re: Kirian's Bracket: Missing Matches
« on: April 24, 2012, 02:18:01 am »
I assume that I will need to complete ^_^_^_^'s round 2, 3, and 4 matches, will I also need to track down his round 1 opponent and do those games as well?

5972
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Great responses / counters
« on: April 23, 2012, 03:24:44 pm »
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=171.0
Quote
This was the absolute best "gems to gemonade" turn I've ever had playing Dominion.  I turn something really bad (gaining 3 curses), into something really awesome (KCing a torturer).

I get hit by a KCed torturer, gain 3 curses, cellar off 6 cards from my deck, and turn the tables, hitting my own KCed torturer and finishing off by trading post away the 3 curses I picked up at the start of the turn.

http://councilroom.com/game?game_id=game-20110417-171217-038cf33a.html#mlo-show-turn-15

A case where cellar is better than warehouse!

5973
Dominion Isotropic / Re: Who do you enjoy playing?
« on: April 20, 2012, 06:09:23 pm »
I played four fun games with Captain_Frisk today and we had a great conversation. I went 2-2, which was a huge honor for me against such an esteemed player! I look forward to more games with him (and hopefully more people around the forum) in the future. :)

5974
GokoDom / Re: State of IsoDom: Alternates and helper requested
« on: April 20, 2012, 06:05:30 pm »
I'm definitely still interested in being an alternate if people decide that there will be alternates. Fwiw, I'm in central US, but I don't mind being put into whatever bracket and I'll do my best to have my schedule open to whenever my opponents can play.

5975
Dominion General Discussion / Re: Least game-warping expansion
« on: April 19, 2012, 04:37:53 pm »
When we buy a new expansion, we don't dive right into it. We play with the other cards and have three or four kingdom cards be from the new expansion. After each game, we put those cards away and pull out three or four more cards from the new set and build a new kingdom with the older cards. That way, we see each card at least once. Someone made this suggestion earlier, and I support it. It's a nice way to learn the new cards without delving right into it. I played an all-Prosperity set at GenCon when it came out. It was overwhelming, to say the least.

I'm exactly the opposite - whenever I picked up a new expansion, I would only play with cards from that expansion for the first few games with it, just to jump right in.

As for game-warping, I think Donald X said somewhere that every individual card changes the game, coming with its own little rule change, or something like that.  I think that's the best way to think about it.  Given that most of these cards were initially designed all at once before Dominion: Vanilla even was released, it's less about tacking things on and more about getting to see the entire picture.

Also note that both Hinterlands and Cornucopia say "for 13 and up" unlike the rest of the boxes which say "for 8 and up," which is a testament to their greater complexity, since there're only so many ways you can make simple cards.  So Cornucopia might not have been the best choice for a first expansion.

Eh, the age thing is probably not because they're more complex, but rather that they're newer. They probably re-evaluated and felt the game was better suited to the older age level.

The intrigue box says 13+ also. I always thought it was because of harem, though. :P
fwiw, my gaming group always jumps in to the expansions, playing many games with only new cards and slowly phasing the other cards back in. It takes some reading, definitely, but it hasn't been too much of a brain-buster so far.

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