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Author Topic: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)  (Read 167158 times)

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ashersky

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RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« on: April 14, 2013, 06:39:03 pm »

Welcome back to RMM6 - Shakespeare Mafia!




Mods: ashersky, yuma, shraeye

Players:
1--Eevee
2--EFHW - Conflict, Chauffeur Strongman Witch, Lynched Day 4
3--xeiron- Hero, Matchmaker and Pen Pal Lover, Lynched Day 1
4--Twistedarcher - Ophelia, 2-Shot Commuting Bomb, Lynched Day 2
5--sudgy - Darkness, Whispering Lover Witch, Lynched Day 3
6--mail-mi
7--nkirbit - Dogberry, the Self-Satisfied Night Constable, Killed Night 3
8--raerae - Hamlet's Father, Town Ghost, faded away on Day 4
9--liopoil - Claudio, 2-Shot Poison Doctor and Pen Pal Lover, Suicided Day 1



Act I:
Start (May 28, 8:30 p.m.)
Act II:  Start (June 8, 11:00 p.m.)
Act III: Start (June 14, 11:00 p.m.)
Act IV: Start (June 18, 11:20 p.m.)





This is a reboot of a game originally conceptualized by Voltgloss, but was subsequently abandoned.  I am opening this game up early for sign ups only.  The roster has been cleared, so if you joined in the previous thread (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5084.0), you will need to re-/in.

Procedures for joining this game: please /in downthread., and PM me with exactly three roles from Shakespeare's plays.  If you do not know specific roles, but really like a specific play, PM that to me.  If your knowledge of Shakespeare isn't that specific, just PM me to say that.

I will use the information provided from the PMs to shape the roles and set-up of this game.  That's why the sign-up thread is opening up so early.  I don't have access to Volt's original musings, so I'm starting from scratch.

One note: I prefer to run this as a smaller game, but will take up to 15 players.  I am okay with running this at any odd number of players beginning with 9.  So after further planning, this is shaping up to be a standard size game 13 players).  I will balance the game based on the number of players that /in and PM me.

Yeah, 9 players in the end.

This game is DEFINITELY RMM, and definitely NOT BM, in case there were any worries.[/b]




f.ds Mafia Ruleset

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun!  Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.

Please read The Civility Pledge before signing up for this game.  If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play here.

Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.


General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote private Moderator-supplied information (either real or fabricated) of any kind.  Paraphrasing (for role claims, etc.) is acceptable.
2. Personal communication outside of the forum postings is NOT ALLOWED unless your Role PM specifically allows it.
3. If you have a role with a Night action, your choices are due to all mods by the posted deadline (generally 48 hours from Night start during the first few Nights; later Nights may have shorter deadlines).  If we do not receive your choice via PM by the posted deadline you will forfeit your actions.  In case of multiple submissions, the last valid one before the deadline will be used.  Generally, one team member may submit the Night Actions for all team members.
4. Roles with Night actions will not be able to submit an action on Night 0 (i.e. during the confirmation stage), unless your Role PM specifically allows it.
5. Any player with a Night action may instead submit a “No Action” PM to let the Mods know that you do not want to perform your expected action that Night phase, unless your Action is compulsory.
6. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 24 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:

1. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
2. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate.  Further votes will also be ignored.
3. Once a player is lynched the game enters twilight until I post a death scene; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
4. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes will NOT be counted if they are not bold or do not follow this syntax!  Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
5. Please submit vote revocations as either Unvote: PlayerName or Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
6. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
7. Once you are killed (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in Quicktopics, except for twilight.  This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post.  The dead in this game are silent, but will be invited to the Spectator Quicktopic.
8. Do not edit or delete posts.  We don't want some players having more information than others.  If you want to clarify posts, feel free to double post.
9. This game will have "bankable deadlines."  See http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bankable_deadline.  The rules for calculating deadlines are as follows:
- Day 1 is 14 days long.
- Twice the number of unused days, rounded down, at the end of Day 1 are banked.
- Day 2 and each subsequent day will last for:
-- three "free" days plus all banked days up to a total of 14 days;
-- if more than 11 days are in the bank, the remainder will be saved for future days;
-- all unused "banked days" left over at the end of each Day are returned to the bank.


Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Bold, maroon text is reserved for the Mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please PM the Mods privately.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players will be issued automatically after 48 hours of no activity or upon request after 24 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 48 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 3 times is subject to replacement without further notice.
6. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, up to and including a Modkill.
7. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.

Helpful Links:

--Main Wiki Page

--Newbie Guide

--Frequently Asked Questions

--Commonly Used Abbreviations

--Mafia Theory

TO CLARIFY, I AM NOT A MODERATOR OF F.DS IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.  IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS GAME, I AM MODERATING THAT THE RULES ARE FOLLOWED AND HIDDEN ACTIONS ARE COMPLETED PROPERLY.

GAME SET-UP, ROLES, AND NEWBIE SPECIFIC INFORMATION LISTED IN NEXT POST
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 07:11:26 pm by ashersky »
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ashersky

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2013, 06:39:10 pm »

Game Specific Notes:

1.  Extensive Shakespearean knowledge is not required to play this game.  In fact, you can play this game with zero knowledge of Shakespeare's works and be successful.  That said, flavor throughout the game will be tied to the theme, and some bits and pieces within the set-up are related to Shakespeare's plays.  I have designed the game so that, even when flavor really matters, a quick Google search will give you the answer.

2.  I originally asked for characters/plays as suggestions via PM.  I didn't get many sign-ups early, and in the end we just designed the game on our own.

3.  All roles, with flavor names, are pre-designed.  That means they do presuppose alignment.  All roles will be assigned randomly.

4.  Othello is my favorite play.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2013, 08:12:19 pm by ashersky »
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ashersky

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2013, 06:39:34 pm »

Teasers:

Here is a list of possible primary win conditions in this game.  At least two of the following are guaranteed to be in the game.  Please note, these are listed with basic mafia terminology used; words may change for flavor purposes only.


Town: You win when all threats to town have been eliminated.

Mafia: You win when mafia controls half the town, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Serial Killer: You win when you are the only player alive, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Werewolves: You win when werewolves control half the town, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Survivor: You win when any faction achieves its win condition and you are still alive.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 12:21:39 am by ashersky »
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2013, 06:52:16 pm »

In!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2013, 08:07:06 pm »

/tag
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2013, 10:58:47 pm »

/in, going to think about characters.  I'm glad you're doing this Ashersky, I had given up on it ever happening.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2013, 11:11:32 pm »

/tag
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2013, 03:40:48 am »

/tag
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2013, 04:13:36 am »

/in
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2013, 12:21:05 pm »

vroooom!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2013, 03:18:20 pm »

/tag
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ashersky

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2013, 08:07:36 am »

Bump.  Looking for at least nine players total.  Should be a fun, fast game.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2013, 10:12:11 pm »

Bump.  Looking for at least nine players total.  Should be a fun, fast game.

That was wrong.  Definitely a 13-player game.  It's RMM, but could be stretched in classification to normal.  Maybe.  But really, RMM.  Roles are all but set.  Just need players!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2013, 10:52:58 pm »

I can say that ash has developed some very interesting roles and dynamics that I think will play out fantastically. This will be a very good game and I am excited to watch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2013, 01:22:12 am »

Yeah people, fun is fun.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2013, 07:52:53 am »

Teaser added to post 3.
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ashersky

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2013, 11:07:02 pm »

Teaser added to post 3.

Added more info.

Changed the subject line to denote that sign-ups are, in fact, open.  Possibly folks are turned off by the theme?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 10 slots left)
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2013, 11:25:54 pm »

Oh what the heck, I'll in.

Theme's awesome, btw, definitely not scaring me off.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 9 slots left)
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2013, 12:18:01 am »

As per Index and PM, /in
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 8 slots left)
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2013, 01:52:32 pm »

Alright Arch, I'll do that.  /in.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

ashersky

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 7 slots left)
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2013, 01:09:13 am »

Shall I inform you that PMs are done?
If I did so would you think on posting
a photo of a grumpy cat, the one
with a message to the ones a' hosting...
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 7 slots left)
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2013, 01:36:42 am »

Shall I inform you that PMs are done?
If I did so would you think on posting
a photo of a grumpy cat, the one
with a message to the ones a' hosting...


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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 7 slots left)
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2013, 04:14:49 pm »

Oh what the heck, lets get this started!

P.S. /in
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 6 slots left)
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2013, 05:06:38 pm »

Over halfway there.  Where's Robz?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 6 slots left)
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2013, 05:15:04 pm »

Over halfway there.  Where's Robz?
IDK he isn't signed up for my game either.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 6 slots left)
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2013, 07:55:09 am »

Bump for the 1-year anniversary!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 6 slots left)
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2013, 07:36:49 pm »

So, I'll give this a bump again...
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 6 slots left)
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2013, 07:44:35 pm »

So, I'll give this a bump again...

I helped make roles! And ash is a RMM genius! Combined this game will be awesome. Besides... who doesn't like a bit of the Bard?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 6 slots left)
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2013, 07:47:58 pm »

So, I'll give this a bump again...

I helped make roles! And ash is a RMM genius! Combined this game will be awesome. Besides... who doesn't like a bit of the Bard?

I agree, ash is a pretty great RMM mod.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 6 slots left)
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2013, 08:23:49 pm »

I really like the 'at least two of X' thing.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 6 slots left)
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2013, 08:27:27 pm »

Pretty much a great mode in general, I'd recommend playing this!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 6 slots left)
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2013, 09:00:30 pm »

I think I'll give this a final bump, and possibly give up?

Also, Galz should play this game.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 6 slots left)
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2013, 10:22:57 pm »

don't give up!  I bet after Pirates and Mean Girls we will have more people.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 6 slots left)
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2013, 10:29:57 pm »

/in
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 5 slots left)
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2013, 10:40:29 pm »

FYI, Nkirbit is my brother.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 5 slots left)
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2013, 10:42:21 pm »

FYI, Nkirbit is my brother.

No biggie.  Robz and mcmc play together all the time.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 5 slots left)
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2013, 06:39:50 pm »

lio, you /tagged but didn't in, right?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 5 slots left)
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2013, 07:24:51 pm »

I have a lot of IRL busy stuff coming up but the bug has bit again...plus it's been a while since I played a game all the way through...ummmmm...ummmmm...IN!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 4 slots left)
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2013, 07:31:53 pm »

I have a lot of IRL busy stuff coming up but the bug has bit again...plus it's been a while since I played a game all the way through...ummmmm...ummmmm...IN!

Yay!  4 slots left.

PMs are written and formatted, I'll send out when the game fills.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 5 slots left)
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2013, 07:53:21 pm »

I have a lot of IRL busy stuff coming up but the bug has bit again...plus it's been a while since I played a game all the way through...ummmmm...ummmmm...IN!
You should sign up for the other RMM games you, then you can out of the others when one starts. Also, u should sign up for my game.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 5 slots left)
« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2013, 08:45:51 am »

lio, you /tagged but didn't in, right?
that's right, but ya know what, sure, /in. Am I supposed to send you something or was that just before?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 5 slots left)
« Reply #41 on: May 27, 2013, 09:20:19 am »

lio, you /tagged but didn't in, right?
that's right, but ya know what, sure, /in. Am I supposed to send you something or was that just before?

That was before.  Now you can send me three more ins!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 3 slots left)
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2013, 09:21:12 am »

And by three I mean Galz, Robz, and mcmc.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 3 slots left)
« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2013, 11:26:21 am »

I don't think I'll be able to stay /in for this one. I'll be visiting Alaska for a little vacation during the second week of June. It's a wasteland up there, so I don't think I'm going to have enough access to play a game. If this starts after that, there'll be no problem so leave me /in. Otherwise I'm sadly going to have to /out.

(And don't feel like you have to hold the game from me. If you get 13 people that are not me signed up, please kick my sorry butt out of the sign up list and get this started!)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 3 slots left)
« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2013, 05:39:41 pm »

I don't think I'll be able to stay /in for this one. I'll be visiting Alaska for a little vacation during the second week of June. It's a wasteland up there, so I don't think I'm going to have enough access to play a game. If this starts after that, there'll be no problem so leave me /in. Otherwise I'm sadly going to have to /out.

(And don't feel like you have to hold the game from me. If you get 13 people that are not me signed up, please kick my sorry butt out of the sign up list and get this started!)

No problem.  Enjoy the Yukon!

In the interest of games, I think I can cut 4 awesome roles from this game and run it as a 9-player version.  We have 9 signed up.

What do folks think?  Wait for four more?  9 means a shorter game, but otherwise still balanced.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 3 slots left)
« Reply #45 on: May 27, 2013, 05:44:47 pm »

Is anybody waiting for games to be done to in?  If no, let's rock this.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 3 slots left)
« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2013, 05:49:29 pm »

Yea lets go with just 9!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 3 slots left)
« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2013, 06:06:45 pm »

YES! smaller games are probably more fun anyway!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 3 slots left)
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2013, 06:18:24 pm »

i like small games
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 3 slots left)
« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2013, 06:19:56 pm »

I think the only downside to a small RMM game is that part of the fun of the game is having and using a cool PR. If the game is small that means there are less nights to use that cool PR. But as we haven't yet done a 9 player RMM game I would be interested in seeing how it goes, and really the downside I just mentioned isn't really that big of a downside.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 3 slots left)
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2013, 06:20:45 pm »

Let's do 9!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 3 slots left)
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2013, 06:31:33 pm »

9 works for me!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 3 slots left)
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2013, 06:50:57 pm »

Les do this.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 3 slots left)
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2013, 07:00:42 pm »

gogogo! ahem, I mean, send me my PM  ;)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 3 slots left)
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2013, 07:00:54 pm »

sure
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 3 slots left)
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2013, 07:01:21 pm »

that's everyone! we can skip the confirmation stage and start day 1 now!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 3 slots left)
« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2013, 07:22:02 pm »


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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-ups open - 3 slots left)
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2013, 07:23:40 pm »

Thread Locked.  PMs coming shortly.

Take this time to read them carefully and PM me questions about them.  They may be complicated.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2013, 08:34:29 pm »

Town, mafia, alike in dignity,
In fair f.ds, where we lay our scene,
From ancient grudge break to new mutiny,
Where civil blood makes civil hands unclean.
From forth the fatal loins of these great foes
Star-cross'd voters might think to take some lives;
Whose misadventured piteous overthrows
Do with their deaths bury each others' strife.
The fearful passage of their death-mark'd love,
And the continuance of their newfound rage,
Which, but the mafia's end, nought could remove,
Is now some acts and hours' traffic of our stage;
The which if you with patient ears attend,
What here shall miss, our toil shall strive to mend.


RMM 6: Shakespeare Mafia begins now.

Act I start!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2013, 08:35:23 pm »

HAHA!  First!  For the first time!
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2013, 08:37:39 pm »

Vote Count Act I.I:

Not Voting (9): Eevee, EFHW, xeiron, Twistedarcher, sudgy, mail-mi, nkirbit, raerae, liopoil

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2013, 08:39:50 pm »

Woohoo!  This is exciting!  What's everyone's favorite Shakespeare play?  Mine is Macbeth!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #62 on: May 28, 2013, 08:44:49 pm »

Afk for a day or two. Get back  to you then :)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #63 on: May 28, 2013, 08:46:55 pm »

Hello all! it's worth note that eevee is the only real veteran in this game.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #64 on: May 28, 2013, 09:40:44 pm »

What's everyone's favorite Shakespeare play?
julius caesar
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #65 on: May 28, 2013, 09:47:21 pm »

I saw Twelfth Night recently - there was a male actor playing a woman who was pretending to be a man.  He did a good job!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #66 on: May 28, 2013, 09:51:18 pm »

Vote: Iago  There was a bad guy!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #67 on: May 29, 2013, 12:12:50 am »

Hello all! it's worth note that eevee is the only real veteran in this game.

"Real" veteran?  *pinches self*  Dang, still fake...
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #68 on: May 29, 2013, 12:43:28 am »

Hey, I've been in several games...

Vote: liopoil for saying something mean!  (ish)

Should we flavor claim?  It hasn't really done much good or bad in the past, so I'm not sure if it should be suggested or not.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #69 on: May 29, 2013, 12:52:02 am »

I'm going to go on record and say the following:

1) I won't claim jack crap day one, will fight it day two, and am undecided on day three
2) I won't participate in the pros/cons "To claim, or not to claim" (see what I did there?!) discussion that will inevitably happen for the next four pages in which we ultimately decide to not claim...until one person does, then everybody does, then we lynch the last person to claim and they end up being town.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #70 on: May 29, 2013, 05:03:06 am »

Hi everyone!

Yeah, I think we shouldnt massclaim or talk about massclaiming day 1.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #71 on: May 29, 2013, 05:06:12 am »

Hi everyone!

Yeah, I think we shouldnt massclaim or talk about massclaiming day 1.

Agree.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #72 on: May 29, 2013, 05:15:56 am »

What's everyone's favorite Shakespeare play?

I have just started to read the complete works of Shakespeare.
For now Twelfth Night is my favorite, but I have almost all remaning.
Which one should i read next?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #73 on: May 29, 2013, 07:30:10 am »

I suggest Julius Caesar!

To be fair, I've only read/seen a total of 5, maybe up to 8 shakespeare plays. Maybe you should ask ashersky :P
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #74 on: May 29, 2013, 09:01:41 am »

Woot woot!

1. I like a Comedy of Errors

2. Vote: Robz
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #75 on: May 29, 2013, 09:16:58 am »

What's everyone's favorite Shakespeare play?

I have just started to read the complete works of Shakespeare.
For now Twelfth Night is my favorite, but I have almost all remaning.
Which one should i read next?
Romeo and Juliet -- The starting flavor was adapted from the start of R&J.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #76 on: May 29, 2013, 02:16:36 pm »

vote: nkirbit
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #77 on: May 29, 2013, 03:17:43 pm »

Come to think of it, I've only read one...   :-\
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #78 on: May 29, 2013, 06:03:13 pm »

Come to think of it, I've only read one...   :-\
Vote: Sudgy ;)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #79 on: May 29, 2013, 07:12:23 pm »

Vote Count Act I.II:

liopoil (1): sudgy
nkirbit (1): xeiron
sudgy (1): liopoil

Not Voting (6): Eevee, EFHW, Twistedarcher, mail-mi, nkirbit, raerae

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #80 on: May 29, 2013, 07:22:30 pm »

Woot woot!

1. I like a Comedy of Errors

2. Vote: Robz
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #81 on: May 29, 2013, 07:35:08 pm »

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #82 on: May 29, 2013, 08:20:06 pm »

We need to get this show on the road!  So far, xeiron is the only one acting scummy, for voting nkirbit without explanation.  So vote: X

I just checked the OP again to be sure - This is a really closed set-up.  We don't know how many scum there are, or if there is more than one kind of scum.  We also have no idea about each other's possible powers. 

BUT we do know there are bankable deadlines, and the number of the days in the bank depends directly on how long Day 1 is.  We have 14 days for Day 1, then whatever we don't use is doubled and becomes "the bank". 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #83 on: May 29, 2013, 08:27:37 pm »

We need to get this show on the road!  So far, xeiron is the only one acting scummy, for voting nkirbit without explanation.  So vote: X

BUT we do know there are bankable deadlines, and the number of the days in the bank depends directly on how long Day 1 is.  We have 14 days for Day 1, then whatever we don't use is doubled and becomes "the bank". 
It's RVS I think, trying to get some discussion going, which it successfully did. Did not see that about the bankable deadlines. Soft deadline, anybody? wanna stick to said soft deadline perhaps?

How about Monday, June the 3rd, at 8:30 PM forum time

This gives us 16 banked days.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #84 on: May 29, 2013, 08:34:14 pm »

I'll lock thy heaven from thee.
O, that men's ears should be
To counsel deaf, but not to flattery!


One day has passed.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #85 on: May 29, 2013, 08:49:11 pm »

I'd assume 2 scum in 9 players, EFHW. Two scum teams for 9 players seems rough -- mislynch and 2 NKs brings us to 4/2 assuming scum don't kill each other, and we're at MYLO at that point. Obviously keep ourselves open to all possibilities but I'd assume we're dealing with 2 scum, both on the same team. Possibly a survivor or something as well?

Lio,
Soft deadline doesn't work for me, but I don't know when around that time frame would. I'm having surgery on the 3rd so I can't promise I'll be around at night, but if it works for everyone else, I will make sure I have a vote parked somewhere that morning.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #86 on: May 29, 2013, 08:50:46 pm »

Romeo and Juliet: lovers?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #87 on: May 29, 2013, 09:05:15 pm »

Romeo and Juliet: lovers?
could be. Goes for lots of other pairs of people in shakespeare too.

2 scum works, 2 scum+survivor works, 2 serial killers might work, 2 scum 1 serial killer might work. the last two are rough for town, but who know what crazy PRs we have, right?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #88 on: May 29, 2013, 10:42:08 pm »

We need to get this show on the road!  So far, xeiron is the only one acting scummy, for voting nkirbit without explanation.  So vote: X

BUT we do know there are bankable deadlines, and the number of the days in the bank depends directly on how long Day 1 is.  We have 14 days for Day 1, then whatever we don't use is doubled and becomes "the bank". 
It's RVS I think, trying to get some discussion going, which it successfully did. Did not see that about the bankable deadlines. Soft deadline, anybody? wanna stick to said soft deadline perhaps?

How about Monday, June the 3rd, at 8:30 PM forum time

This gives us 16 banked days.

I support this but understand SB's conflict.  SB, do you suggest a different day or can we push for this?  I wouldn't object to moving it back one or two days, assuming we'll actually lynch at deadline.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #89 on: May 29, 2013, 10:51:09 pm »

I think that soft deadline gives us too little time for D1.  We may want to use all of our cool powers (this is RMM, I'm sure you all have some), but we still need to concentrate on catching scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #90 on: May 29, 2013, 11:03:06 pm »

I think that soft deadline gives us too little time for D1.  We may want to use all of our cool powers (this is RMM, I'm sure you all have some), but we still need to concentrate on catching scum.

Who said anything about getting D1 over to use sweet powers?  I want this day to end before the actual D1 deadline.  Recent games have shown how beneficial it is for scum to drag days out and push them to the wire.  I won't be in that position this time around.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #91 on: May 29, 2013, 11:07:38 pm »

Romeo and Juliet: lovers?
could be. Goes for lots of other pairs of people in shakespeare too.
Interesting.  Antony and Cleopatra; Troilus and Cressida; 2 gentlemen of Verona  ;) (I actually haven't read that one, don't know their relationship!  Probably not romantic.)
There's famous couples:  Hamlet and Ophelia, Othello and Desdemona, MacBeth and Lady MacBeth (not too romantic, there).  I haven't read all the plays, so there are probably more.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #92 on: May 29, 2013, 11:08:13 pm »

I support this but understand SB's conflict.  SB, do you suggest a different day or can we push for this?  I wouldn't object to moving it back one or two days, assuming we'll actually lynch at deadline.
I think you mean TA?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #93 on: May 29, 2013, 11:09:03 pm »

I support this but understand SB's conflict.  SB, do you suggest a different day or can we push for this?  I wouldn't object to moving it back one or two days, assuming we'll actually lynch at deadline.
I think you mean TA?

Balls.  Yeah, TA not SB.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #94 on: May 29, 2013, 11:11:11 pm »

Either or. I'm not too concerned with not being to be able to be online right during a soft deadline. I'd say leave it then, and try to get a lynch through.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #95 on: May 29, 2013, 11:12:49 pm »

It does seem obvious from the intro that there are both mafia and town in this game, and those are the only two factions.  (Although a SK could exist.. I can't think of any in Shakespeare literature though... Titus Andronicus perhaps?)  A 7/2 split for town/mafia seems to be the only split that makes sense, or 6/2/SK.

There are probably some pretty insane roles, though (I hope there are!)  There could be a Puck character who causes characters to switch factions, or mistakenly target the wrong character at night, or some other form of puckish action.  Or Macbeth, a traitor, could be a town-aligned member who switches to the other faction when certain conditions are met (Perhaps there is a King Duncan, upon whose death Macbeth becomes a mafia member?  That'd be thematic!).  There are endless possibilities for cool roles.

Anyway, the proposed soft deadline works for me.  And thanks for the vote, Xeiron (not!)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #96 on: May 29, 2013, 11:13:44 pm »

EFHW, thoughts and feelings on a softdeadline?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #97 on: May 29, 2013, 11:14:11 pm »

I'd assume 2 scum in 9 players, EFHW. Two scum teams for 9 players seems rough -- mislynch and 2 NKs brings us to 4/2 assuming scum don't kill each other, and we're at MYLO at that point. Obviously keep ourselves open to all possibilities but I'd assume we're dealing with 2 scum, both on the same team. Possibly a survivor or something as well?
Depending on how funky Ashersky decided to be.  But yeah, I'd agree, 2 bad guys seems most likely. 

PPE: Good point nkirbit, I should reread the intro.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #98 on: May 29, 2013, 11:15:59 pm »

Eevee, my love, where you be?

Lio too?  Come on, kids!  Slowest D1 eva eva.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #99 on: May 29, 2013, 11:17:56 pm »

It does seem obvious from the intro that there are both mafia and town in this game, and those are the only two factions.  (Although a SK could exist.. I can't think of any in Shakespeare literature though... Titus Andronicus perhaps?)  A 7/2 split for town/mafia seems to be the only split that makes sense, or 6/2/SK.

There are probably some pretty insane roles, though (I hope there are!)  There could be a Puck character who causes characters to switch factions, or mistakenly target the wrong character at night, or some other form of puckish action.  Or Macbeth, a traitor, could be a town-aligned member who switches to the other faction when certain conditions are met (Perhaps there is a King Duncan, upon whose death Macbeth becomes a mafia member?  That'd be thematic!).  There are endless possibilities for cool roles.

Anyway, the proposed soft deadline works for me.  And thanks for the vote, Xeiron (not!)

Good point about the intro, I hadn't read it yet (sorry Ash! I swear I'll read the rest of them!)

A lot of those roles cross over from RMM to Bastard, and wouldn't be included. Pretty sure alignment switching isn't allowed, for example.

I think role speculation isn't that great for town. They are our weapons this game, and trying to uncover what's out there is bad bad bad.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #100 on: May 29, 2013, 11:18:58 pm »

EFHW, thoughts and feelings on a soft deadline?
I think we definitely want one.  Monday is less than a week from the start of the game.  D1 can be hard, so if we're totally lost on Monday we should rethink the deadline rather than rushing a lynch.  I do like the sound of 16 banked days.  I would recommend trying hard to make the Monday deadline.  If people are around on the weekend, that would help a lot.  Sometimes weekends are really slow.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #101 on: May 29, 2013, 11:19:49 pm »

Kewl with soft deadline.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #102 on: May 29, 2013, 11:20:48 pm »

Romeo and Juliet: lovers?
could be. Goes for lots of other pairs of people in shakespeare too.
Interesting.  Antony and Cleopatra; Troilus and Cressida; 2 gentlemen of Verona  ;) (I actually haven't read that one, don't know their relationship!  Probably not romantic.)
There's famous couples:  Hamlet and Ophelia, Othello and Desdemona, MacBeth and Lady MacBeth (not too romantic, there).  I haven't read all the plays, so there are probably more.

For what it's worth, I don't think the mafia is going to be a couple.  Especially because they were referred to as "Mafia" in the prologue, and not some other flavored name.  If we ever flavor claim, I would expect the names for the mafia to be ones like Othello.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #103 on: May 29, 2013, 11:22:20 pm »

Well the mafia definitely won't be lovers -- That means if one dies both die.  Too easy!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #104 on: May 29, 2013, 11:23:53 pm »

We are getting dangerously close to claiming things here, folks.  Let's refrain, shall we?

EFHW, good point. 

All ya'all's, what if we bumped SD back to Wednesday, June 5th?  Still lots of banked days and gives a little over a week from start. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #105 on: May 29, 2013, 11:25:37 pm »

Sure,  Same time?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #106 on: May 29, 2013, 11:26:37 pm »


If music be the food of love, play on,
Give me excess of it; that surfeiting,
The appetite may sicken, and so die.



Vote Count Act I.III:


liopoil (1): sudgy
nkirbit (1): xeiron
sudgy (1): liopoil
xeiron (1): EFHW

Not Voting (5): Eevee, Twistedarcher, mail-mi, nkirbit, raerae

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #107 on: May 29, 2013, 11:27:59 pm »

Sure,  Same time?

Sounds good to me. I have a farewell party that night but don't have time on it yet so I'll make sure to get my vote down before I go to that if I'll be there during deadline.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #108 on: May 29, 2013, 11:28:13 pm »

So far, xeiron is the only one acting scummy, for voting nkirbit without explanation.  So vote: X
It's RVS I think, trying to get some discussion going, which it successfully did.
[/quote]
RVS is usually accompanied by some kind of joke or teasing.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #109 on: May 29, 2013, 11:29:26 pm »

Ugh still can't vote for Robz. Dang it.

Also kewl with moving the soft deadline back.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #110 on: May 29, 2013, 11:29:48 pm »


If music be the food of love, play on,
Give me excess of it; that surfeiting,
The appetite may sicken, and so die.


Twelfth Night!  Has anyone else ever noticed how odd a word "twelfth" is?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #111 on: May 29, 2013, 11:32:07 pm »

I'll lock thy heaven from thee.
O, that men's ears should be
To counsel deaf, but not to flattery!
I had to look this one up - Timon of Athens.  My guess is this quote is about buddying.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #112 on: May 29, 2013, 11:42:29 pm »

Romeo and Juliet: lovers?
could be. Goes for lots of other pairs of people in shakespeare too.
Interesting.  Antony and Cleopatra; Troilus and Cressida; 2 gentlemen of Verona  ;) (I actually haven't read that one, don't know their relationship!  Probably not romantic.)
There's famous couples:  Hamlet and Ophelia, Othello and Desdemona, MacBeth and Lady MacBeth (not too romantic, there).  I haven't read all the plays, so there are probably more.

For what it's worth, I don't think the mafia is going to be a couple.  Especially because they were referred to as "Mafia" in the prologue, and not some other flavored name.  If we ever flavor claim, I would expect the names for the mafia to be ones like Othello.

But is Othello a villain, or is he a victim?

Fine with soft deadline moving.

Man, RVS sucks. Want to get this game going but don't know how! Agree that claiming is a bad idea, but getting D1 moving is tough..

Xeiron, why'd you vote nkirbit?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #113 on: May 29, 2013, 11:51:51 pm »

But is Othello a villain, or is he a victim?

The play should really be called Iago - he's the real villain (hence my vote).
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #114 on: May 30, 2013, 12:22:23 am »

I must admit I've never read Othello, so I'll trust your opinions on who the real villain is there.

I don't like RVS for the most part, but I do think the interaction between Xeiron and EFHW is worth discussing.  Xeiron votes me, somewhat randomly.  There's no good reason, no joke, nothing, but it's RVS, it's fine.  It doesn't have to.

EFHW immediately responds to it, though, despite it clearly being RVS.  It was just some meaningless vote, and I got absolutely no read from it one way or the other.  EFHW immediately jumps to my defense and she then accuses Xeiron of being scummy.  It felt a little over the top for what was a random vote.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #115 on: May 30, 2013, 12:44:14 am »

Vote: EFHW for that.  Better than nothing.

I think I would support that soft deadline a lot more than the old one.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #116 on: May 30, 2013, 02:59:47 am »

Sorry peoples, been awfully busy and neglecting the forums.

I don't particularly care about the soft deadline, I know I'd be able to blitz it out day one or day 5 if need be. Well, I guess I share raerae's opinion of dragged out days that no one can ever reread, so I'd rather have us build interesting interactions faster.

Kudos to nkirbit for pushing us to the right direction. I don't think I agree about EHFW though, what are you implying? "A little weird" doesn't automatically mean mafia-y.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #117 on: May 30, 2013, 03:47:51 am »


Xeiron, why'd you vote nkirbit?
To create some interaction and get the game going.
I chose nkirbit at random.

I think monday is to early for a soft deadline. We need some time D1 to develop some half-decent reads.
What about deadline thursday?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #118 on: May 30, 2013, 07:38:00 am »

With 9 players, this game will probably go around 3 days. Day 1 should take a little bit less time than the others. So, if we spend 8 days today, we can spend 9 days D2 and D3 each. So actually, soft deadline of Wednesday at 8:30pm forum time is perfect, but we NEED to  stick to it, because each day wasted costs us double.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #119 on: May 30, 2013, 09:11:39 am »

With 9 players, this game will probably go around 3 days. Day 1 should take a little bit less time than the others. So, if we spend 8 days today, we can spend 9 days D2 and D3 each. So actually, soft deadline of Wednesday at 8:30pm forum time is perfect, but we NEED to  stick to it, because each day wasted costs us double.

I am fine with wednesday 8:30pm.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #120 on: May 30, 2013, 09:19:45 am »

mail-mi, I challenge you to do something more than agree with the SD.  What are your thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #121 on: May 30, 2013, 09:20:15 am »

Also, do we have any twin claims in game right now?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #122 on: May 30, 2013, 09:41:18 am »

Also, do we have any twin claims in game right now?

Twistedarcher and Nkirbit are brothers.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #123 on: May 30, 2013, 10:19:48 am »

Also, do we have any twin claims in game right now?
Liopoil and I know each other irl.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #124 on: May 30, 2013, 10:21:53 am »

Unvote.  A vote without explanation is fishy.  Now it has been explained.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #125 on: May 30, 2013, 01:31:41 pm »

Kudos to nkirbit for pushing us to the right direction. I don't think I agree about EHFW though, what are you implying? "A little weird" doesn't automatically mean mafia-y.

Yeah, I agree.  I didn't vote for EFHW, so I don't think it's necessarily scummy either.. just worth noting it was a little out of place.

If anything, EFHW is one of the few people actively contributing, so at this point, probably a slightly-towny read for me.  But I felt that I necessarily had to point out the one actual thing that was worth pointing out (that I've seen, anyway) this game.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #126 on: May 30, 2013, 03:18:53 pm »

But I felt that I necessarily had to point out the one actual thing that was worth pointing out (that I've seen, anyway) this game.
exactly.  So how can we get people to start acting scummy?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #127 on: May 30, 2013, 03:42:15 pm »

nkirbit gave EFHW a town read!  He's protecting her!  Vote: nkirbit.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #128 on: May 30, 2013, 04:53:57 pm »

really quiet here. I don't normally support RVS, but maybe it will get us somewhere. Vote: raerae for trying to push the discussion forward.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #129 on: May 30, 2013, 05:56:51 pm »

really quiet here. I don't normally support RVS, but maybe it will get us somewhere. Vote: raerae for trying to push the discussion forward.
But that's a good thing!  Vote: Liopoil for being anti-town.  (maybe it was a typo?)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #130 on: May 30, 2013, 06:04:06 pm »

really quiet here. I don't normally support RVS, but maybe it will get us somewhere. Vote: raerae for trying to push the discussion forward.
But that's a good thing!  Vote: Liopoil for being anti-town.  (maybe it was a typo?)

I think Lio meant "Vote raerae in order to try to push the discussion forward" rather than what he said.  Otherwise the two sentences don't make sense one after the other.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #131 on: May 30, 2013, 06:05:43 pm »

A history of EFHW and RVS:
vote: nkirbit

What's this about?
So far, xeiron is the only one acting scummy, for voting nkirbit without explanation.  So vote: X
Unvote.  A vote without explanation is fishy.  Now it has been explained.
RVS is usually accompanied by some kind of joke or teasing.
really quiet here. I don't normally support RVS, but maybe it will get us somewhere. Vote: raerae for trying to push the discussion forward.
My vote was not serious, and indeed, the two sentences don't make sense one after the other at all.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #132 on: May 30, 2013, 06:10:49 pm »

And therefore, — since I cannot prove a lover,
To entertain these fair well-spoken days, —
I am determined to prove a villain,
And hate the idle pleasures of these days.



Vote Count Act I.IV:


nkirbit (2): xeiron, sudgy
raerae (1): liopoil
liopoil (1): EFHW

Not Voting (5): Eevee, Twistedarcher, mail-mi, nkirbit, raerae

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #133 on: May 30, 2013, 06:25:40 pm »

unvote then.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #134 on: May 30, 2013, 09:14:56 pm »

I'm not sure how to make this game progress at this point?  Anyone have any ideas?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #135 on: May 30, 2013, 09:22:45 pm »

Cursory reread, vote: liopoil. Feels a bit off. Town read on sudgy.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #136 on: May 30, 2013, 09:38:16 pm »

Vote: mail-mi for not contributing.  This is not RVS.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #137 on: May 30, 2013, 09:44:19 pm »

Cursory reread, vote: liopoil. Feels a bit off. Town read on sudgy.
I do feel a bit off. This is my first RMM game, not sure what to do from here. maybe I'll go find a scummy person and vote for them.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #138 on: May 30, 2013, 09:47:27 pm »

Well the mafia definitely won't be lovers -- That means if one dies both die.  Too easy!
I don't think this is necessarily true.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #139 on: May 30, 2013, 09:49:10 pm »

Cursory reread, vote: liopoil. Feels a bit off. Town read on sudgy.
I do feel a bit off. This is my first RMM game, not sure what to do from here. maybe I'll go find a scummy person and vote for them.

This is my plan.  Until I have a reason not to, I'm going to treat it as a normal game.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #140 on: May 30, 2013, 09:51:28 pm »

well, I read the whole very short thread, and based off hardly anything:

slight slight slight scum: EFHW, eevee
slight slight slight town: xeiron, raerae, sudgy.

nkirbit, TA, and mail-mi aren't even slightly slightly slightly slightly anything.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #141 on: May 30, 2013, 10:11:15 pm »

well, I read the whole very short thread, and based off hardly anything:

slight slight slight scum: EFHW, eevee
slight slight slight town: xeiron, raerae, sudgy.


nkirbit, TA, and mail-mi aren't even slightly slightly slightly slightly anything.

Why?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #142 on: May 30, 2013, 10:45:44 pm »

Cursory reread, vote: liopoil. Feels a bit off. Town read on sudgy.
I do feel a bit off. This is my first RMM game, not sure what to do from here. maybe I'll go find a scummy person and vote for them.

This is my plan.  Until I have a reason not to, I'm going to treat it as a normal game.

What kind of reason would you anticipate/are you looking for?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #143 on: May 30, 2013, 10:46:25 pm »

Well the mafia definitely won't be lovers -- That means if one dies both die.  Too easy!
I don't think this is necessarily true.

Why? 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #144 on: May 30, 2013, 10:46:54 pm »

Cursory reread, vote: liopoil. Feels a bit off. Town read on sudgy.

What do you mean?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #145 on: May 30, 2013, 10:49:05 pm »

I'm not sure how to make this game progress at this point?  Anyone have any ideas?

Working on it.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #146 on: May 30, 2013, 10:49:33 pm »

A history of EFHW and RVS:
vote: nkirbit

What's this about?
So far, xeiron is the only one acting scummy, for voting nkirbit without explanation.  So vote: X
Unvote.  A vote without explanation is fishy.  Now it has been explained.
RVS is usually accompanied by some kind of joke or teasing.
really quiet here. I don't normally support RVS, but maybe it will get us somewhere. Vote: raerae for trying to push the discussion forward.
My vote was not serious, and indeed, the two sentences don't make sense one after the other at all.

What did you hope to accomplish with this "history"?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #147 on: May 30, 2013, 10:49:48 pm »

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #148 on: May 30, 2013, 10:50:56 pm »

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

Does town!mail-mi or scum!mail-mi usually avoid my questions?

mail-mi, I challenge you to do something more than agree with the SD.  What are your thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #149 on: May 30, 2013, 10:51:51 pm »

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

Does town!mail-mi or scum!mail-mi usually avoid my questions?

mail-mi, I challenge you to do something more than agree with the SD.  What are your thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit?
Oh missed that. Currently going to a movie, answer when on a computer.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #150 on: May 30, 2013, 10:56:06 pm »

well, I read the whole very short thread, and based off hardly anything:

slight slight slight scum: EFHW, eevee
slight slight slight town: xeiron, raerae, sudgy.

nkirbit, TA, and mail-mi aren't even slightly slightly slightly slightly anything.

Why isn't nkirbot anything? I get me and mail mi since we've contributed nothing but you should have some read one way or another on nkirbit for his vote of efhw. He's been probably the most active contributor thus far.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #151 on: May 30, 2013, 10:57:31 pm »

well, I read the whole very short thread, and based off hardly anything:

slight slight slight scum: EFHW, eevee
slight slight slight town: xeiron, raerae, sudgy.

nkirbit, TA, and mail-mi aren't even slightly slightly slightly slightly anything.

Why isn't nkirbot anything? I get me and mail mi since we've contributed nothing but you should have some read one way or another on nkirbit for his vote of efhw. He's been probably the most active contributor thus far.

What is your definition of an "active contributor"?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #152 on: May 30, 2013, 10:58:14 pm »

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

Does town!mail-mi or scum!mail-mi usually avoid my questions?

mail-mi, I challenge you to do something more than agree with the SD.  What are your thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit?

He avoided mcmcs questions in samurai when he was scum.

I'm 2/2 on figuring out mail mi being scum so far so I'm hoping ill be able to do it again this game if hes scum again. No read on him yet though.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #153 on: May 30, 2013, 10:58:44 pm »

well, I read the whole very short thread, and based off hardly anything:

slight slight slight scum: EFHW, eevee
slight slight slight town: xeiron, raerae, sudgy.

nkirbit, TA, and mail-mi aren't even slightly slightly slightly slightly anything.

Why isn't nkirbot anything? I get me and mail mi since we've contributed nothing but you should have some read one way or another on nkirbit for his vote of efhw. He's been probably the most active contributor thus far.

What is your definition of an "active contributor"?

He's been posting. Which I haven't been and I don't think mail mi has been as far as I remember.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #154 on: May 30, 2013, 11:00:51 pm »

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

I have no idea but I think this is a very good question. It seems she's making an active attempt to be proactive rather than reactive. Generally I'd attribute that to a town member but I'm not sure in her case since I've never played with her before.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #155 on: May 30, 2013, 11:03:45 pm »

Cursory reread, vote: liopoil. Feels a bit off. Town read on sudgy.
I do feel a bit off. This is my first RMM game, not sure what to do from here. maybe I'll go find a scummy person and vote for them.

This is my plan.  Until I have a reason not to, I'm going to treat it as a normal game.

What kind of reason would you anticipate/are you looking for?

I don't know.  I've never played an RMM game before, and I have played a regular one, so my default is to treat it as a regular game.  I don't know what reason I'm anticipating.. or if there even will be.  But as a default, I'm treating it the same way I treated my first game.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #156 on: May 31, 2013, 12:02:13 am »

Vote Count Act I.V:

nkirbit (2): xeiron, sudgy
raerae (1): liopoil
liopoil (1): Eevee
mail-mi (1): EFHW

Not Voting (4): Twistedarcher, mail-mi, nkirbit, raerae

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 12:26:36 am by ashersky »
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #157 on: May 31, 2013, 12:10:35 am »

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

Does town!mail-mi or scum!mail-mi usually avoid my questions?

mail-mi, I challenge you to do something more than agree with the SD.  What are your thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit?

He avoided mcmcs questions in samurai when he was scum.

I'm 2/2 on figuring out mail mi being scum so far so I'm hoping ill be able to do it again this game if hes scum again. No read on him yet though.

I've played with him once or twice.  I'm very sassy.  This was a pointed, sassy, rhetorical question that may as well have read, "Oh, sweetie, I know you did not just avoid my question.  Here, I'll quote it for you one more time."  Don't worry, you'll get used to it.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #158 on: May 31, 2013, 02:14:16 am »

Wait, speaking of mafia-lover teams, what if there were multiple teams, but they were lovers to even things out?
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #159 on: May 31, 2013, 02:40:33 am »

This is the excellent foppery of the world, that,
when we are sick in fortune,--often the surfeit
of our own behavior,--we make guilty of our
disasters the sun, the moon, and the stars: as
if we were villains by necessity; fools by
heavenly compulsion; knaves, thieves, and
treachers, by spherical predominance; drunkards,
liars, and adulterers, by an enforced obedience of
planetary influence; and all that we are evil in,
by a divine thrusting on: an admirable evasion
of whoremaster man, to lay his goatish
disposition to the charge of a star.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #160 on: May 31, 2013, 04:03:55 am »

Wait, speaking of mafia-lover teams, what if there were multiple teams, but they were lovers to even things out?

As in four scum and five town? I think that is a little too much even if they are lovers.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #161 on: May 31, 2013, 06:04:00 am »

Wait, speaking of mafia-lover teams, what if there were multiple teams, but they were lovers to even things out?
As in four scum and five town? I think that is a little too much even if they are lovers.
That's almost a 50% chance of hitting scum, and if you do you would take out two.  But the double nightkill would be too big an advantage to scum.  The word "lovers" has appeared pretty frequently though.

... Star-cross'd voters [lovers in the original] might think to take some lives;
Whose misadventured piteous overthrows
Do with their deaths bury each others' strife.
The fearful passage of their death-mark'd love,
And the continuance of their newfound rage, ...

Romeo and Juliet: lovers?
And therefore, — since I cannot prove a lover,
To entertain these fair well-spoken days, —
I am determined to prove a villain,
And hate the idle pleasures of these days.
.


Well the mafia definitely won't be lovers -- That means if one dies both die.  Too easy!
I don't think this is necessarily true.
Sudgy's idea is mentioned in the wiki, but as part of open setups: "Lovers are players who are linked to each other. If one Lover dies, the Lover(s) linked to it die simultaneously. Lovers have been known to be of any alignment. It is not at all implausible to have Lovers in Town-scum pairs. Lovers are frequently used for balance purposes in Open Setups, and are featured in Polygamist."
"Polygamist is an Open setup which is mainly characterized by a group of four lovers, who happen to be scum. The original idea was created by Adel."
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #162 on: May 31, 2013, 06:16:24 am »

Forgot one:
If music be the food of love, play on,
Give me excess of it; that surfeiting,
The appetite may sicken, and so die.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #163 on: May 31, 2013, 07:01:58 am »

I think you guys are wrong -- it'd be too short of a game.

Regardless I don't see what difference it makes especially d1. Lets still lynch the person we feel most likely to be town.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #164 on: May 31, 2013, 07:02:11 am »

Scum,even
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #165 on: May 31, 2013, 11:26:42 am »

I think you guys are wrong -- it'd be too short of a game.

Regardless I don't see what difference it makes especially d1. Lets still lynch the person we feel most likely to be town.

Well, it's important for players who haven't had a game with lovers in it to be aware of the implications.  Like, if you're a lover and we're about to lynch you, unless you know your lover is scum, speak up!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #166 on: May 31, 2013, 11:33:17 am »

I think you guys are wrong -- it'd be too short of a game.

Regardless I don't see what difference it makes especially d1. Lets still lynch the person we feel most likely to be town.

Well, it's important for players who haven't had a game with lovers in it to be aware of the implications.  Like, if you're a lover and we're about to lynch you, unless you know your lover is scum, speak up!

Right but now you are just giving scum a possible fake-claim. Any player who was sent a lover PM will surely be able to figure that out themselves -- we're all reasonably smart people here.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #167 on: May 31, 2013, 11:53:14 am »

I think you guys are wrong -- it'd be too short of a game.

Regardless I don't see what difference it makes especially d1. Lets still lynch the person we feel most likely to be town.
Well, it's important for players who haven't had a game with lovers in it to be aware of the implications.  Like, if you're a lover and we're about to lynch you, unless you know your lover is scum, speak up!
Right but now you are just giving scum a possible fake-claim. Any player who was sent a lover PM will surely be able to figure that out themselves -- we're all reasonably smart people here.
Alright, you have a point there.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #168 on: May 31, 2013, 05:08:18 pm »

It could maybe be 2 scum-lovers and an SK or something.  Just trying to name possibilities.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #169 on: May 31, 2013, 05:10:06 pm »

It could maybe be 2 scum-lovers and an SK or something.  Just trying to name possibilities.
exactly what I was going to say. There are countless ways to balance a game in RMM, scum lovers are very much possible.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #170 on: May 31, 2013, 06:01:33 pm »

I think you guys are wrong -- it'd be too short of a game.

Regardless I don't see what difference it makes especially d1. Lets still lynch the person we feel most likely to be town.
Well, it's important for players who haven't had a game with lovers in it to be aware of the implications.  Like, if you're a lover and we're about to lynch you, unless you know your lover is scum, speak up!
Right but now you are just giving scum a possible fake-claim. Any player who was sent a lover PM will surely be able to figure that out themselves -- we're all reasonably smart people here.
Alright, you have a point there.

Actually, any claim by a lover should be verifiable by the other lover, so a fakeclaim would not work.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #171 on: May 31, 2013, 06:07:21 pm »

yes it does. They can claim to be a lover with their scumbuddy.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #172 on: May 31, 2013, 06:07:45 pm »

although, that does essentially make them lovers, because if one flips scum the other is obvscum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #173 on: May 31, 2013, 06:40:43 pm »

Why are we even talking about lovers anyway?  We don't even know if we have any, it would just fit with the theme...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #174 on: May 31, 2013, 08:19:20 pm »

Is it worth noting that mail-mi still hasn't answered raerae's question, despite being online since the point at which he said he would?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #175 on: May 31, 2013, 08:21:05 pm »

I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it.  I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would.  It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #176 on: May 31, 2013, 09:39:36 pm »

Why are we even talking about lovers anyway?  We don't even know if we have any, it would just fit with the theme...
lack of anything else to talk about. Not wanting to talk about this is slightly scummy, because scum might not want to. I'll Vote: sudgy
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #177 on: May 31, 2013, 09:44:03 pm »

Then if thou hast
A heart of wreak in thee, that wilt revenge
Thine own particular wrongs and stop those maims
Of shame seen through thy country, speed
thee straight,
And make my misery serve thy turn: so use it
That my revengeful services may prove
As benefits to thee, for I will fight
Against my canker'd country with the spleen
Of all the under fiends
.


Vote Count Act I.VI:


nkirbit (2): xeiron, sudgy
liopoil (1): Eevee
mail-mi (1): EFHW
sudgy (1): liopoil

Not Voting (4): Twistedarcher, mail-mi, nkirbit, raerae

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.  3 days have passed.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #178 on: May 31, 2013, 09:44:32 pm »

I don't know about that, nkirbit.  I doubt he forgot, having been asked twice. 

I would also point out that liopoil has neglected to answer several of raerae's questions:

A history of EFHW and RVS:
What did you hope to accomplish with this "history"?

Well the mafia definitely won't be lovers -- That means if one dies both die.  Too easy!
I don't think this is necessarily true.
Why?

well, I read the whole very short thread, and based off hardly anything:
slight slight slight scum: EFHW, eevee
slight slight slight town: xeiron, raerae, sudgy.

nkirbit, TA, and mail-mi aren't even slightly slightly slightly slightly anything.
Why?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #179 on: May 31, 2013, 09:47:19 pm »

thanks EFHW, I missed those.

A history of EFHW and RVS:
What did you hope to accomplish with this "history"?
Nothing. Just pointing it out.

Well the mafia definitely won't be lovers -- That means if one dies both die.  Too easy!
I don't think this is necessarily true.
Why?
Because being RMM it would be very easy to balance such a situation, as I've now said.

well, I read the whole very short thread, and based off hardly anything:
slight slight slight scum: EFHW, eevee
slight slight slight town: xeiron, raerae, sudgy.

nkirbit, TA, and mail-mi aren't even slightly slightly slightly slightly anything.
Why?
It's based off hardly anything, as I said. All are just slight vibes on them.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #180 on: May 31, 2013, 10:14:36 pm »

Why are we even talking about lovers anyway?  We don't even know if we have any, it would just fit with the theme...
lack of anything else to talk about. Not wanting to talk about this is slightly scummy, because scum might not want to. I'll Vote: sudgy

I disagree with this.

Role speculation is bad bad bad. Not wanting to talk about roles is fine! I don't want to talk about roles, and I don't get why we haven't moved on.

Saying "we expect X,Y,Z" makes scum know that they can fakeclaim "X,Y,Z" and have town believe them more easily!

Please guys, let's stop talking about roles.

Talking about roles is better for scum than for town, I think.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #181 on: May 31, 2013, 10:15:11 pm »

Ok, what do you want to talk about?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #182 on: May 31, 2013, 10:17:45 pm »

Liopoil has been posting about setup speculation, but not much else, other than the soft deadline. He missed raerae's questions, and mine as well (about why nkirbit is a null read when he's been posting). Not much to go off of, but Vote: Liopoil
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #183 on: May 31, 2013, 10:58:55 pm »

I'm going to do a quick re-read of everyone!  And because I don't feel like typing "slight" 8 times, all of my reads are obviously
slight, since it's still early day one!

Rae-Rae:

The one thing I noticed here was that Rae-Rae was insistent that we not talk about flavor.  Looking back now, I agree with the points that she and TA have made about not claiming, but she was vocal about it.  For example, this post:

We are getting dangerously close to claiming things here, folks.  Let's refrain, shall we?

It was very clear what her point of view was concerning discussion about flavor.  Given this, though, this question feels a little out of place:

Well the mafia definitely won't be lovers -- That means if one dies both die.  Too easy!
I don't think this is necessarily true.

Why?

Asking someone to elaborate their views on a flavor question?  I guess this isn't directly flavor related, but it's certainly tangentially related enough that it made me raise an eyebrow.

Overall though, she is asking good questions that are driving the conversation forward.  So a townread from me.

TwistedArcher:

Like Raerae, he states that he thinks role speculation is bad.  He asks lio why someone I was a nullread, which is a fair enough question, but an easy one to ask.  He discussed mail-mi's behaviors in past game, and asked about raerae's behavior.  He has yet to state an opinion about another player, scum or town, other than saying mail-mi was a null read [NOTE:  His vote for Lio came after this post started.. so there you go].  A null-read, but for an active player, I'd like to see more opinions.

Mail-Mi:

Really not much here.  At all, wow.  I know this is his style, but after being scum in pirates, I'm less likely to buy that as an excuse this time around.  He completely ignored raerae's question initially, later acknowledging it saying he would answer it later, but never did!  I'm not sure what to make of this, however... I think a scum would be more diligent in avoiding the suspicion raised by simply ignoring a question.  I'll give him a null-read at this point, as this could go either way... It's null because I have both scummy and townie suspcisions, not because I have none.

EFHW:

The first thing is her response to Xeiron's RVS vote on me, which I felt was over the top.  Not necessarily scummy, but odd enough that I want to ask why she reacted the way she did.  And then she unvotes when Xeiron explains that it was just RVS?  It was obviously RVS, you knew that from the start!  I guess here:
So far, xeiron is the only one acting scummy, for voting nkirbit without explanation.  So vote: X
It's RVS I think, trying to get some discussion going, which it successfully did.
RVS is usually accompanied by some kind of joke or teasing.

EFHW states that she didn't think it was RVS.  But I'm just not buying that she saw it as anything other than RVS.  The entire voting for xeiron and unvoting seemed very artificial to me.  Either you had a legitimate (small) amount of outrage against Xeiron's vote, which was entirely cleared up by the explanation that it was, in fact, RVS (duh!), or you staged a reaction.  It just felt much more like the second than the first.

Again, votes for lio than immediately unvotes.  Just feels very odd.  Then votes mail-mi, where her vote is parked, then defends him a little.  Which is understandable, as her vote was mainly due to his inactivity.

Overall a scum read.  Just feels off and artificial.

More to come!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #184 on: May 31, 2013, 11:10:35 pm »

I was going to vote mail-mi for avoiding my question until lio's insane "missed those" comments.  Seriously?  You missed me spamming the thread?  Have you only been reading your partners or what?

Vote: liopoil
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #185 on: May 31, 2013, 11:19:44 pm »


Mail-Mi:

Really not much here.  At all, wow.  I know this is his style, but after being scum in pirates, I'm less likely to buy that as an excuse this time around.  He completely ignored raerae's question initially, later acknowledging it saying he would answer it later, but never did!  I'm not sure what to make of this, however... I think a scum would be more diligent in avoiding the suspicion raised by simply ignoring a question.  I'll give him a null-read at this point, as this could go either way... It's null because I have both scummy and townie suspcisions, not because I have none.


He completely ignored Mcmc's repeated questions D1 of Samurai + Ninjas, so I wouldn't say "scum mail-mi would be careful to not do that". It's hard to read him when he's the same every game, though, which is probably good for him :P
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #186 on: May 31, 2013, 11:21:11 pm »

Btw, L-2 on Lio...dang these wagons get up there quickly in a 9 player game.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #187 on: May 31, 2013, 11:25:32 pm »

Eevee:  He's been very busy, so there's not much.  Comes back and defends EFHW, with this:

Kudos to nkirbit for pushing us to the right direction. I don't think I agree about EHFW though, what are you implying? "A little weird" doesn't automatically mean mafia-y.

Not sure what to make of this, honestly.  All my initial comment about EHFW stated was that it was "a little weird", not anything about EHFW being scummy for this.  Eevee defended EHFW from an accusation that I hadn't even made.  I never said anything about "A little weird" being mafia-y, and I don't know why Eevee felt the need to defend EHFW here.

Votes Liopoil for simply being "a bit off" with no further explanation.  Okay, I guess, but I'd like to hear the reason for why he feels a bit off!  And nothing since then.  He's been busy, I know, but it's weird to come back to a game you've been out of, make a vote for "someone being weird", then hop off again.  Scumread for me.

Sudgy:

Immediately votes EFHW after I make my initial comment about her.  Thinking about it, I wonder why Eevee's question is pointed at me, and not Sudgy.. sudgy was the one to vote for EFHW!

Anyway, this is a very sheepy vote, but I just hammered Sudgy incorrectly in part for being sheepy, so I'm not going to put any weight on this vote.

He then votes for me, but it was pretty much RVS.  Then doesn't have a lot of content.

I'm going to go with a town-read here.  I'd like to see more content, especially original content, but I just mis-lynched Sudgy for the same reason, and he was town the last time he acted like this.

Xeiron:
Wow, there's remarkably little content here.  Like, less than both Eevee and Mail-mi, which is saying something.  His only meaningful contribution was an RVS vote on me, and calling that meaningful was a stretch.  Scumread for an extreme lack of meaningful activity.

Liopoil:

Bring's up a history of EFHW, but doesn't comment on it at all.  Doesn't respond to Eevee's vote at all, but this is expected... Eevee hasn't really given him anything to respond to.  He posts a bunch of reads, which I like, but doesn't give any reasons for any of them, which I don't like.   Raerae asks him three questions, which he ignores.  In particular, raerae asks this:

A history of EFHW and RVS:
vote: nkirbit

What's this about?
So far, xeiron is the only one acting scummy, for voting nkirbit without explanation.  So vote: X
Unvote.  A vote without explanation is fishy.  Now it has been explained.
RVS is usually accompanied by some kind of joke or teasing.
really quiet here. I don't normally support RVS, but maybe it will get us somewhere. Vote: raerae for trying to push the discussion forward.
My vote was not serious, and indeed, the two sentences don't make sense one after the other at all.

What did you hope to accomplish with this "history"?

Which I think is a fantastic question and would like to hear from Lio about. 

Why are we even talking about lovers anyway?  We don't even know if we have any, it would just fit with the theme...
lack of anything else to talk about. Not wanting to talk about this is slightly scummy, because scum might not want to. I'll Vote: sudgy

Lack of anything to talk about?  How about the multiple questions that raerae asked you?

You did answer these later, but I wasn't very satisfied with your responses.  Your reads were hardly based off anything?  That's dumb!  They were obviously based off of something, and raerae and the others would like to know what.

Scumread, for sure.

In summary:

Scumread:  Liopoil, Xeiron, Eevee, EHFW
Neutral:  Mail-Mi, TA
Town: Raerae, Sudgy

That's a lot of scumreads, so I'll clarify that EHFW and Liopoil are my top two reads at the moment.  Both higher than xeiron and eevee, who are mostly caused by lack of activity.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #188 on: May 31, 2013, 11:28:30 pm »

Eevee is v/la for the weekend and I would super love for him to explain his vote on lio.

Can we agree to avoid killing anybody or putting them at L-1 until we're all around?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #189 on: May 31, 2013, 11:28:58 pm »


Mail-Mi:

Really not much here.  At all, wow.  I know this is his style, but after being scum in pirates, I'm less likely to buy that as an excuse this time around.  He completely ignored raerae's question initially, later acknowledging it saying he would answer it later, but never did!  I'm not sure what to make of this, however... I think a scum would be more diligent in avoiding the suspicion raised by simply ignoring a question.  I'll give him a null-read at this point, as this could go either way... It's null because I have both scummy and townie suspcisions, not because I have none.


He completely ignored Mcmc's repeated questions D1 of Samurai + Ninjas, so I wouldn't say "scum mail-mi would be careful to not do that". It's hard to read him when he's the same every game, though, which is probably good for him :P

What do you think about mail-mi here?  Do you think this is scum!mail-mi? 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #190 on: May 31, 2013, 11:31:17 pm »

Eevee is v/la for the weekend and I would super love for him to explain his vote on lio.

Can we agree to avoid killing anybody or putting them at L-1 until we're all around?

Yes.  Especially in RMM... there very well could be a hammerer, correct?  I think we should be careful about putting people to L-1 unless we are comfortable with a lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #191 on: May 31, 2013, 11:34:34 pm »


Mail-Mi:

Really not much here.  At all, wow.  I know this is his style, but after being scum in pirates, I'm less likely to buy that as an excuse this time around.  He completely ignored raerae's question initially, later acknowledging it saying he would answer it later, but never did!  I'm not sure what to make of this, however... I think a scum would be more diligent in avoiding the suspicion raised by simply ignoring a question.  I'll give him a null-read at this point, as this could go either way... It's null because I have both scummy and townie suspcisions, not because I have none.


He completely ignored Mcmc's repeated questions D1 of Samurai + Ninjas, so I wouldn't say "scum mail-mi would be careful to not do that". It's hard to read him when he's the same every game, though, which is probably good for him :P

What do you think about mail-mi here?  Do you think this is scum!mail-mi?

It's hard to say so early. I know that's not a satisfying answer, but I haven't seen anything that would want to make me lynch him D1 yet.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #192 on: May 31, 2013, 11:44:35 pm »

Vote Count Act I.VII:

nkirbit (2): xeiron, sudgy
liopoil (3): Eevee, Twistedarcher, raerae
mail-mi (1): EFHW
sudgy (1): liopoil

Not Voting (2): mail-mi, nkirbit

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #193 on: May 31, 2013, 11:56:34 pm »

That's a lot of scumreads, so I'll clarify that EHFW and Liopoil are my top two reads at the moment.  Both higher than xeiron and eevee, who are mostly caused by lack of activity.
Wait a minute here - you mention other people variously defending, voting for, and summarizing me, but not anything actually scummy about me.  So how did I make it to the top of your scummy list?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #194 on: June 01, 2013, 12:00:38 am »

EFHW:

The first thing is her response to Xeiron's RVS vote on me, which I felt was over the top.  Not necessarily scummy, but odd enough that I want to ask why she reacted the way she did.  And then she unvotes when Xeiron explains that it was just RVS?  It was obviously RVS, you knew that from the start!  I guess here:
So far, xeiron is the only one acting scummy, for voting nkirbit without explanation.  So vote: X
It's RVS I think, trying to get some discussion going, which it successfully did.
RVS is usually accompanied by some kind of joke or teasing.

EFHW states that she didn't think it was RVS.  But I'm just not buying that she saw it as anything other than RVS.  The entire voting for xeiron and unvoting seemed very artificial to me.  Either you had a legitimate (small) amount of outrage against Xeiron's vote, which was entirely cleared up by the explanation that it was, in fact, RVS (duh!), or you staged a reaction.  It just felt much more like the second than the first.

Again, votes for lio than immediately unvotes.  Just feels very odd.  Then votes mail-mi, where her vote is parked, then defends him a little.  Which is understandable, as her vote was mainly due to his inactivity.

Overall a scum read.  Just feels off and artificial.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #195 on: June 01, 2013, 12:05:04 am »

That's a lot of scumreads, so I'll clarify that EHFW and Liopoil are my top two reads at the moment.  Both higher than xeiron and eevee, who are mostly caused by lack of activity.
Wait a minute here - you mention other people variously defending, voting for, and summarizing me, but not anything actually scummy about me.  So how did I make it to the top of your scummy list?
nvm, I didn't realize you had two long posts.  All my votes with the exception of mail-mi and xeiron have been pure RVS. 

Xeiron was 75% RVS - voting without explanation is not helpful, but not crazy scummy, either.  So I drew attention to it, but didn't pursue it.  You know, trying to get discussion going, so in that sense, yeah, it was staged. 

My vote on mail-mi is not RVS.  He has been posting purely fluff.  One post was just a repost of an earlier one of his own, with no comment!

PPE: I see I didn't make it in time to spare you the quoting.  Oh well.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #196 on: June 01, 2013, 12:06:47 am »

Where did I defend mail-mi?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #197 on: June 01, 2013, 12:14:05 am »

Okay, you actually have a point there.  What I was thinking about was my post:

I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it.  I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would.  It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.

and your response:
I don't know about that, nkirbit.  I doubt he forgot, having been asked twice. 

But looking at this again, you're right:  You weren't defending him, in fact, all you said was that you don't think he forgot, which I'm not going to draw any inferences from.  I misread this when I was re-reading, my mistake.

That being said:  Now that I'm clear that you think Mail-mi didn't simply forget to answer the question, what do you make of him not answering it?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #198 on: June 01, 2013, 12:15:39 am »

That's a lot of scumreads, so I'll clarify that EHFW and Liopoil are my top two reads at the moment.  Both higher than xeiron and eevee, who are mostly caused by lack of activity.
Wait a minute here - you mention other people variously defending, voting for, and summarizing me, but not anything actually scummy about me.  So how did I make it to the top of your scummy list?
nvm, I didn't realize you had two long posts.  All my votes with the exception of mail-mi and xeiron have been pure RVS. 

Xeiron was 75% RVS - voting without explanation is not helpful, but not crazy scummy, either.  So I drew attention to it, but didn't pursue it.  You know, trying to get discussion going, so in that sense, yeah, it was staged. 

My vote on mail-mi is not RVS.  He has been posting purely fluff.  One post was just a repost of an earlier one of his own, with no comment!

PPE: I see I didn't make it in time to spare you the quoting.  Oh well.

The Xeiron vote didn't seem RVS to me -- you had a good reason to do it! Obviously it's not the most scummy thing he did, but your vote was for a legitimate reason, and therefore not random at all, in my eyes.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #199 on: June 01, 2013, 12:43:23 am »

I was going to vote liopoil, but then you guys said he was at L-2, so I'll Vote: liopoil for now (not a real vote).  I agree that "missing" questions like that is pretty scummy.

So, lio, could you come in here and say something?
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #200 on: June 01, 2013, 08:39:51 am »

hi, I'm here. I haven't been focusing on this game too much, more busy with mean girls. I did answer raerae's questions. How in the world do you expect my reads to be based off more than hardly anything???? it's early Day 1, there is literally nothing. A lot of posts came after raerae's questions before I checked the thread again.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #201 on: June 01, 2013, 08:43:36 am »

Why are we even talking about lovers anyway?  We don't even know if we have any, it would just fit with the theme...
lack of anything else to talk about. Not wanting to talk about this is slightly scummy, because scum might not want to. I'll Vote: sudgy

I disagree with this.

Role speculation is bad bad bad. Not wanting to talk about roles is fine! I don't want to talk about roles, and I don't get why we haven't moved on.

Saying "we expect X,Y,Z" makes scum know that they can fakeclaim "X,Y,Z" and have town believe them more easily!

Please guys, let's stop talking about roles.

Talking about roles is better for scum than for town, I think.
These are very good points. Unvote, and I'll stop talking about theory. That just all that I do early Day 1, because I don't have anything better to do. I have nothing at all solid to form reads on, and when I posted my thing with just slight vibes because it's better than nothing you all questioned it. I don't have anything to back it up!  It's early day one!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #202 on: June 01, 2013, 09:30:44 am »

okay, let's say that I actually DID see raerae's questions:

- If I'm town, I have no reason not to answer them, and no reason to claim to have missed them
- If I'm scum, I should answer them to avoid getting called out (I'm going to have to answer them eventually anyway), and even if I decided for whatever reason not to answer them, why should I claim to have missed them when I can just answer them?

and it isn't too implausible that I missed the questions. Looking back at it, those posts were very short, and we only clearly addressed to me if I look at the quote. I did not look at this thread until several posts after the questions. I have not been paying as much attention to this game, I have my hands full with the other ongoing game. I'll change that. I did not see the questions until they were re-quoted.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #203 on: June 01, 2013, 09:31:46 am »

So I'm saying that:

A) it's perfectly plausible that I missed the questions
B) if I didn't miss them, ignoring them and claiming to have missed them doesn't make sense even as scum. therefore, I must have missed them.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #204 on: June 01, 2013, 11:03:16 am »

well, I read the whole very short thread, and based off hardly anything:

slight slight slight scum: EFHW, eevee
slight slight slight town: xeiron, raerae, sudgy.

nkirbit, TA, and mail-mi aren't even slightly slightly slightly slightly anything.

Why isn't nkirbot anything? I get me and mail mi since we've contributed nothing but you should have some read one way or another on nkirbit for his vote of efhw. He's been probably the most active contributor thus far.
I'll take another look at nkirbit. I didn't put him down as anything because I didn't remember anything about him after reading.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #205 on: June 01, 2013, 11:09:17 am »

well, I read the whole very short thread, and based off hardly anything:

slight slight slight scum: EFHW, eevee
slight slight slight town: xeiron, raerae, sudgy.

nkirbit, TA, and mail-mi aren't even slightly slightly slightly slightly anything.

Why isn't nkirbot anything? I get me and mail mi since we've contributed nothing but you should have some read one way or another on nkirbit for his vote of efhw. He's been probably the most active contributor thus far.
TA, nkirbit never voted for EFHW, I just checked. Agree he has been the most active and trying to find something to work with D1. Why did you think nkirbit voted for EFHW? what do you think of nkirbit? I lean town after reading him, because of high content.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #206 on: June 01, 2013, 11:20:16 am »

So I'm saying that:

A) it's perfectly plausible that I missed the questions
B) if I didn't miss them, ignoring them and claiming to have missed them doesn't make sense even as scum. therefore, I must have missed them.

Or, you saw mail-mi get away with it in Pirates and thought you'd test it out.  It's MUCH easier to say, "Whoops!  Missed it, sorry!" than to actually answer the question the first time around and give us more information to go on.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #207 on: June 01, 2013, 11:31:23 am »

I still end up answering the question, but draw extra attention to myself. I don't see the point. I didn't follow pirates all too closely, what did mail-mi gain from not answering questions?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #208 on: June 01, 2013, 11:32:20 am »

Okay, you actually have a point there.  What I was thinking about was my post:

I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it.  I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would.  It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.

and your response:
I don't know about that, nkirbit.  I doubt he forgot, having been asked twice. 

But looking at this again, you're right:  You weren't defending him, in fact, all you said was that you don't think he forgot, which I'm not going to draw any inferences from.  I misread this when I was re-reading, my mistake.

That being said:  Now that I'm clear that you think Mail-mi didn't simply forget to answer the question, what do you make of him not answering it?
I think I don't like when people don't participate.  Why sign up if you're not going to play?  This seems to be mail-mi's chosen style, but I think it is more consistent with him being scum than not, since as town I think he does try marginally harder.

Ok, my vote on xeiron wasn't RANDOM, but I didn't intend on following through to lynch on that basis, either.  It was along the lines of all the other votes - there was a pretext and it got conversation started.  And really, how does it help to put a vote down with no reason?  And how is my voting with a small reason worse?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #209 on: June 01, 2013, 11:35:23 am »

Lio, I didn't follow Pirates that closely either, but my view of it is that by refusing to answer questions, he doesn't make any posts that could be self-incriminating.  The best way to catch scum, especially Day 1, is by catching them in some sort of contradiction or extremely odd behavior... by never answering questions, scum can be much more sure that this will never happen.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #210 on: June 01, 2013, 11:36:57 am »

Is it worth noting that mail-mi still hasn't answered raerae's question, despite being online since the point at which he said he would?
I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it.  I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would.  It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.

My question for you - why were you uncomfortable pointing out something that might make mail-mi look scummy, to the point where you made an extra post saying you didn't find him scummy?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #211 on: June 01, 2013, 11:37:44 am »

I didn't refuse to answer questions! I answered as soon as I was aware of them.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #212 on: June 01, 2013, 11:38:18 am »

Lio, I didn't follow Pirates that closely either, but my view of it is that by refusing to answer questions, he doesn't make any posts that could be self-incriminating.  The best way to catch scum, especially Day 1, is by catching them in some sort of contradiction or extremely odd behavior... by never answering questions, scum can be much more sure that this will never happen.
Not in this game!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #213 on: June 01, 2013, 11:43:33 am »

post count time! this includes pre-game posts, so I think everyone's is 2-5 higher than it should be.

EFHW: 37
Liopoil: 31
Raerae: 25
TwistedArcher: 21
Nkirbit: 20
Mail-mi: 13
Sudgy: 12
Xeiron: 7
Eevee: 6
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #214 on: June 01, 2013, 11:46:48 am »

I'll note that while xeiron and eevee are the lowest, they're actually even lower. xeiron has 6, eevee has 3.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #215 on: June 01, 2013, 11:48:31 am »

I hate post counts with every fiber of my being.  What do we truly gain from them?  We know the under-contributors, we know the over contributors, and everybody else falls somewhere in the middle.

Lio, what do you mean we're 2-5 higher than we should be.  What are you basing this on?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #216 on: June 01, 2013, 11:49:49 am »

Ahhhh, never mind, misread that.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #217 on: June 01, 2013, 11:50:51 am »

EFHW & kermit, do you find lio's explanation of "missing" my questions adequate?  What other thoughts do you have on that situation?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #218 on: June 01, 2013, 11:53:29 am »

I hate post counts with every fiber of my being.  What do we truly gain from them?  We know the under-contributors, we know the over contributors, and everybody else falls somewhere in the middle.

Lio, what do you mean we're 2-5 higher than we should be.  What are you basing this on?
pre-game posts.

I disagree.

1. they can't hurt. More info is never a bad thing, even if it is not helpful sometimes.
2. Yes, often they just confirm what we already know. However, sometimes a person can be lurking and we don't really realize the extent to which they are until we see the post count.

So often they don't do much, but they sometimes do, so why not make them?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #219 on: June 01, 2013, 11:57:14 am »

EFHW & kermit, do you find lio's explanation of "missing" my questions adequate?  What other thoughts do you have on that situation?
Yes I do.  The same thing happened to me when I missed nkirbit's post about me being scummy at first. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #220 on: June 01, 2013, 11:58:58 am »

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

Does town!mail-mi or scum!mail-mi usually avoid my questions?

mail-mi, I challenge you to do something more than agree with the SD.  What are your thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit?
Oh missed that. Currently going to a movie, answer when on a computer.
please explain to me how this is any different than what I said.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #221 on: June 01, 2013, 12:00:13 pm »

I hate post counts with every fiber of my being.  What do we truly gain from them?  We know the under-contributors, we know the over contributors, and everybody else falls somewhere in the middle.

Lio, what do you mean we're 2-5 higher than we should be.  What are you basing this on?
pre-game posts.

I disagree.

1. they can't hurt. More info is never a bad thing, even if it is not helpful sometimes.
2. Yes, often they just confirm what we already know. However, sometimes a person can be lurking and we don't really realize the extent to which they are until we see the post count.

So often they don't do much, but they sometimes do, so why not make them?

I never said don't make them.  I said I hate them.  You can post these all day long and it won't ever sway my opinion of somebody.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #222 on: June 01, 2013, 12:00:29 pm »

EFHW & kermit, do you find lio's explanation of "missing" my questions adequate?  What other thoughts do you have on that situation?

I'm assuming I'm kermit, I guess?

Yes, I somewhat do, actually.  I do agree with the argument that it doesn't make sense for Lio to ignore the questions if he were scum.. surely the attention brought on him was much heavier from ignoring than questions than simply asking the questions would have been.  This is a different case than mail-mi, as mail-mi actually acknowledged the question, yet still didn't answer later!  I can see lio entirely missing the questions, and at this point I would guess that's what happened.

I'm also uneasy with how this whole situation is developing.  Eevee, Raerae, and TA have already voted for Lio, Sudgy has stated intent to, I've said he's one of my two top reads, and EFHW has previously voted Lio.  So out of the 8 non-lio players, 6 have already either voted for him, say they're going to, or said he's one of their top scum reads.  I don't think we'd see such a strong support for this lynch if Lio was scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #223 on: June 01, 2013, 12:01:24 pm »

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

Does town!mail-mi or scum!mail-mi usually avoid my questions?

mail-mi, I challenge you to do something more than agree with the SD.  What are your thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit?
Oh missed that. Currently going to a movie, answer when on a computer.
please explain to me how this is any different than what I said.

This difference is his was one question and yours was four...
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #224 on: June 01, 2013, 12:02:56 pm »

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

Does town!mail-mi or scum!mail-mi usually avoid my questions?

mail-mi, I challenge you to do something more than agree with the SD.  What are your thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit?
Oh missed that. Currently going to a movie, answer when on a computer.
please explain to me how this is any different than what I said.

I think they are different!  Mail-mi acknowledged the question, what, a day and a half ago, yet still hasn't answered it!  As soon as it was pointed out that you missed questions, you immediately answered them.  All I think you're guilty of is not reading thoroughly.  I'm starting to rethink my views on mail-mi
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #225 on: June 01, 2013, 12:03:05 pm »

I'll note that while xeiron and eevee are the lowest, they're actually even lower. xeiron has 6, eevee has 3.

xeiron has been v/la since Thursday and will be until Sunday.  Eevee is v/la now through Monday, but that just started yesterday.  Did someone say he's been busy?  3 posts is a very low profile.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #226 on: June 01, 2013, 12:04:43 pm »

So out of the 8 non-lio players, 6 have already either voted for him, say they're going to, or said he's one of their top scum reads.  I don't think we'd see such a strong support for this lynch if Lio was scum.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm never voting RVS again!  This happens every time  -- you make a flimsy pretext vote to keep things going and next thing you know you're on record as voting against the person.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #227 on: June 01, 2013, 12:09:07 pm »

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

Does town!mail-mi or scum!mail-mi usually avoid my questions?

mail-mi, I challenge you to do something more than agree with the SD.  What are your thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit?
Oh missed that. Currently going to a movie, answer when on a computer.
please explain to me how this is any different than what I said.

I think they are different!  Mail-mi acknowledged the question, what, a day and a half ago, yet still hasn't answered it!  As soon as it was pointed out that you missed questions, you immediately answered them.  All I think you're guilty of is not reading thoroughly.  I'm starting to rethink my views on mail-mi
The question was to raerae. I would like raerae to explain why I am more scummy than mail-mi for missing a question.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #228 on: June 01, 2013, 12:14:44 pm »

Is it worth noting that mail-mi still hasn't answered raerae's question, despite being online since the point at which he said he would?
I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it.  I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would.  It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.

My question for you - why were you uncomfortable pointing out something that might make mail-mi look scummy, to the point where you made an extra post saying you didn't find him scummy?

I think the first post was incomplete.  I generally don't like when players bring up issues without giving their views on it... it comes off to me as trying to direct the conversation a certain direction without having it be tied back to you.  I think it would be hypocritical of me to not meet my own standards, so I added more.  I would have made it one post had I done it again, but I can't edit, so double-posting was the best I could do.
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #229 on: June 01, 2013, 12:15:12 pm »

EFHW & kermit, do you find lio's explanation of "missing" my questions adequate?  What other thoughts do you have on that situation?

I'm assuming I'm kermit, I guess?

Yes, I somewhat do, actually.  I do agree with the argument that it doesn't make sense for Lio to ignore the questions if he were scum.. surely the attention brought on him was much heavier from ignoring than questions than simply asking the questions would have been.  This is a different case than mail-mi, as mail-mi actually acknowledged the question, yet still didn't answer later!  I can see lio entirely missing the questions, and at this point I would guess that's what happened.

I'm also uneasy with how this whole situation is developing.  Eevee, Raerae, and TA have already voted for Lio, Sudgy has stated intent to, I've said he's one of my two top reads, and EFHW has previously voted Lio.  So out of the 8 non-lio players, 6 have already either voted for him, say they're going to, or said he's one of their top scum reads.  I don't think we'd see such a strong support for this lynch if Lio was scum.

Yeah, you're kermit, sorry.  It's not unusual to bus a teammate day 1, especially an early bus and getting stuck on wagon.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #230 on: June 01, 2013, 12:18:25 pm »

Is it more unusual in a game this small?  I'm not sure, that's why I'm asking.  I don't have nearly the mafia experience and therefore theory knowledge of most of you.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #231 on: June 01, 2013, 12:18:51 pm »

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

Does town!mail-mi or scum!mail-mi usually avoid my questions?

mail-mi, I challenge you to do something more than agree with the SD.  What are your thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit?
Oh missed that. Currently going to a movie, answer when on a computer.
please explain to me how this is any different than what I said.

I think they are different!  Mail-mi acknowledged the question, what, a day and a half ago, yet still hasn't answered it!  As soon as it was pointed out that you missed questions, you immediately answered them.  All I think you're guilty of is not reading thoroughly.  I'm starting to rethink my views on mail-mi
The question was to raerae. I would like raerae to explain why I am more scummy than mail-mi for missing a question.

You NEED to start reading me.

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

Does town!mail-mi or scum!mail-mi usually avoid my questions?

mail-mi, I challenge you to do something more than agree with the SD.  What are your thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit?
Oh missed that. Currently going to a movie, answer when on a computer.
please explain to me how this is any different than what I said.

This difference is his was one question and yours was four...
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #232 on: June 01, 2013, 12:20:24 pm »

EFHW & kermit, do you find lio's explanation of "missing" my questions adequate?  What other thoughts do you have on that situation?

I'm assuming I'm kermit, I guess?

Yes, I somewhat do, actually.  I do agree with the argument that it doesn't make sense for Lio to ignore the questions if he were scum.. surely the attention brought on him was much heavier from ignoring than questions than simply asking the questions would have been.  This is a different case than mail-mi, as mail-mi actually acknowledged the question, yet still didn't answer later!  I can see lio entirely missing the questions, and at this point I would guess that's what happened.

I'm also uneasy with how this whole situation is developing.  Eevee, Raerae, and TA have already voted for Lio, Sudgy has stated intent to, I've said he's one of my two top reads, and EFHW has previously voted Lio.  So out of the 8 non-lio players, 6 have already either voted for him, say they're going to, or said he's one of their top scum reads.  I don't think we'd see such a strong support for this lynch if Lio was scum.

Yes, this is true -- but at the same time, this isn't a bandwagon where everyone's out with their pitchforks, saying we're all going to lynch Lio, and won't look at anything else. I think 6 of 8 people have said they find it suspicious because it IS slightly suspicious -- we're all looking at the same thing and saying, hmm, that's strange...and stating that we find it strange! No one is willing to put the wagon to L-1 though, which is pretty justified, since it's still well before the deadline.

If Lio = scum, then probably 7 out of 8 of those people are town (or at least not on Lio's team). I don't think that it's unreasonable for most of those people to pick up on the same reason. Hell, I think if he's town, there'd probably be scum who want to defend him in the face of everyone else's suspicions.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #233 on: June 01, 2013, 12:21:56 pm »

Is it worth noting that mail-mi still hasn't answered raerae's question, despite being online since the point at which he said he would?
I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it.  I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would.  It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.

My question for you - why were you uncomfortable pointing out something that might make mail-mi look scummy, to the point where you made an extra post saying you didn't find him scummy?

I think the first post was incomplete.  I generally don't like when players bring up issues without giving their views on it... it comes off to me as trying to direct the conversation a certain direction without having it be tied back to you.  I think it would be hypocritical of me to not meet my own standards, so I added more.  I would have made it one post had I done it again, but I can't edit, so double-posting was the best I could do.

This seems like you're a little too over-concerned with someone calling you out for doing exactly that. 
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #234 on: June 01, 2013, 12:23:35 pm »

Is it worth noting that mail-mi still hasn't answered raerae's question, despite being online since the point at which he said he would?
I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it.  I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would.  It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.

My question for you - why were you uncomfortable pointing out something that might make mail-mi look scummy, to the point where you made an extra post saying you didn't find him scummy?

I think the first post was incomplete.  I generally don't like when players bring up issues without giving their views on it... it comes off to me as trying to direct the conversation a certain direction without having it be tied back to you.  I think it would be hypocritical of me to not meet my own standards, so I added more.  I would have made it one post had I done it again, but I can't edit, so double-posting was the best I could do.

This seems like you're a little too over-concerned with someone calling you out for doing exactly that.

I'm concerned with not looking scummy, because I don't want to be mislynched.  I don't think that's unreasonable.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #235 on: June 01, 2013, 12:23:59 pm »

So I'm saying that:

A) it's perfectly plausible that I missed the questions
B) if I didn't miss them, ignoring them and claiming to have missed them doesn't make sense even as scum. therefore, I must have missed them.

Hmm, this is true. I think, especially that they're coming from Raerae, you KNOW that she's going to get her answer. So if you see it, you're going to answer it at first.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #236 on: June 01, 2013, 12:25:02 pm »

So I'm saying that:

A) it's perfectly plausible that I missed the questions
B) if I didn't miss them, ignoring them and claiming to have missed them doesn't make sense even as scum. therefore, I must have missed them.

Hmm, this is true. I think, especially that they're coming from Raerae, you KNOW that she's going to get her answer. So if you see it, you're going to answer it at first.

Have we played together?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #237 on: June 01, 2013, 12:26:34 pm »

agree with nkirbit that it isn't unreasonable.

hmm, okay, but why is more than one question different? they were all in a row, and I answered them right away, whereas mail-mi said he'd do it later (has he done it yet?)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #238 on: June 01, 2013, 12:28:08 pm »

are there any reasons people find me scummy besides missing raerae's questions?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #239 on: June 01, 2013, 12:28:43 pm »

well, I read the whole very short thread, and based off hardly anything:

slight slight slight scum: EFHW, eevee
slight slight slight town: xeiron, raerae, sudgy.

nkirbit, TA, and mail-mi aren't even slightly slightly slightly slightly anything.

Why isn't nkirbot anything? I get me and mail mi since we've contributed nothing but you should have some read one way or another on nkirbit for his vote of efhw. He's been probably the most active contributor thus far.
TA, nkirbit never voted for EFHW, I just checked. Agree he has been the most active and trying to find something to work with D1. Why did you think nkirbit voted for EFHW? what do you think of nkirbit? I lean town after reading him, because of high content.

Sorry, I had thought he voted when I wrote that, I guess -- mixed voting up with his calling her out.

I am mixed on Nkirbit. While he's definitely active and trying to move the game further, he would definitely become more active rather than less active as scum. He's playing very, very proactively at parts. I think his town-read on Sudgy was slightly artificial (Towny because he sheeped a few votes, just as he did in another game?). He could definitely be scum trying really hard to get town points, but I don't really have any reason to think so other than a slight suspicion at this point. Slight scum read for me.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #240 on: June 01, 2013, 12:29:19 pm »

agree with nkirbit that it isn't unreasonable.

hmm, okay, but why is more than one question different? they were all in a row, and I answered them right away, whereas mail-mi said he'd do it later (has he done it yet?)

You didn't read the thread until you had to.  You missed four questions directed at you.  Mail-mi isn't off the hook for not answering my question, trust me, I'll get around to him.  I find it incredibly odd that you did not answer multiple questions directed at you and I don't find your explanation particularly satisfying.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #241 on: June 01, 2013, 12:30:39 pm »

So I'm saying that:

A) it's perfectly plausible that I missed the questions
B) if I didn't miss them, ignoring them and claiming to have missed them doesn't make sense even as scum. therefore, I must have missed them.

Hmm, this is true. I think, especially that they're coming from Raerae, you KNOW that she's going to get her answer. So if you see it, you're going to answer it at first.

Have we played together?

Nope, but I have read one of your games, and I know that you don't let questions that you want answered go unanswered :)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #242 on: June 01, 2013, 12:41:45 pm »

Also, raerae, I double-checked and only found 3 questions to me, the rest were directed to someone else. what is the fourth question?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #243 on: June 01, 2013, 12:46:04 pm »

Also, raerae, I double-checked and only found 3 questions to me, the rest were directed to someone else. what is the fourth question?

I asked you three, EFHW (correct me if I'm wrong) asked you a fourth.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #244 on: June 01, 2013, 01:39:01 pm »

Mail-mi said he would answer raerae's question but hasn't.  Vote: mail-mi.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #245 on: June 01, 2013, 03:16:21 pm »

I am starting to get a town read on nkirbit, so it is time for me to unvote.
I will try to actually contribute on monday, when I have some time again.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #246 on: June 01, 2013, 05:01:17 pm »

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

Does town!mail-mi or scum!mail-mi usually avoid my questions?

mail-mi, I challenge you to do something more than agree with the SD.  What are your thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit?
On mobile so not a full post, but here goes:

Nkirbit: Has a good number of posts with townie content. Mostly town read.

Xeiron: has a really low post count, slight scum read just because of the lurking.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #247 on: June 01, 2013, 05:06:52 pm »

Mail-mi, answer my question. 

Mail-mi, answer this one too:  Why did you say you're OK with the soft-deadline when you're going to be v/la all week?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #248 on: June 01, 2013, 05:09:48 pm »

Mail-mi, answer my question. 

Mail-mi, answer this one too:  Why did you say you're OK with the soft-deadline when you're going to be v/la all week?
I did. You asked for my thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit. And I kind of forgot about my trip when we were talking about it. I would rather it changed, but if we want to save more banked days I'm fine with it staying.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #249 on: June 01, 2013, 06:00:09 pm »

unvote with a wagon this size for reasons this nonexistent, I really don't think lio is town.

This is not going to be my big catch up post, still visiting family way up north. Side note, the sun practically doesn't go down at all this time of the year which is just so freaking awesome. This place is beautiful.

Anyways, I appreciate how well everyone is taking my VLA. I'd never lie about a thing like this, but I do realize I'm a very heavy undercontributor here, and I'm sorry. I'll make sure to make up for it later, I do strongly believe I'll be an asset to the town later.

Liopoil probably being town is my biggest input at the moment, the people I want to take a look at would be raerae and especially twistedarcher.

Again, sorry I've been absent and thanks for understanding. I'm town and will do my best to make up for the lost time when I get home. Feeling good about this game.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #250 on: June 01, 2013, 06:19:14 pm »

Hey Eevee,

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #251 on: June 01, 2013, 06:29:09 pm »

Hey Eevee,

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?
No idea. I very much doubt we'd catch rae that way.

Somehow I do have a feeling she wants to appear pro-town a little too much, but I already feel my "bad feeling" about liopoil was misguided (although useful!) and I felt yuma was trying to appear too pro-town in pirates and he was town, so I'm not putting a vote down or anything.

I generally don't like statements like "scum raerae asks more questions than town raerae" or "scum eevee buddies less than town eevee". It'a just so hard to know if someone just knows how he/she is perceived and is fooling you.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #252 on: June 01, 2013, 07:55:44 pm »

Vote Count Act I.VIII:

liopoil (2): Twistedarcher, raerae
mail-mi (2): EFHW, sudgy

Not Voting (5): mail-mi, nkirbit, liopoil, xeiron, Eevee

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #253 on: June 01, 2013, 08:01:47 pm »

And of course, mail-mi tries to answer the question differently than lio, so as not to get suspicion...


Hey Eevee,

Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

The one time I saw her as scum (I think the only time) (she subbed in D2 and couldn't really get on until D3 or later, so that may have been why), she was COMPLETELY different.  Was a lot more quiet, not asking many questions, practically no jokes, etc.  In RMM7 she played differently too, but she was town.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #254 on: June 01, 2013, 09:04:24 pm »

And of course, mail-mi tries to answer the question differently than lio, so as not to get suspicion...
Wait what? How did I do that?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #255 on: June 01, 2013, 09:05:46 pm »

And of course, mail-mi tries to answer the question differently than lio, so as not to get suspicion...
Wait what? How did I do that?

Lio was like, "Sorry, I didn't notice" while you just answered them like nothing was wrong.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #256 on: June 01, 2013, 09:32:22 pm »

And of course, mail-mi tries to answer the question differently than lio, so as not to get suspicion...
Wait what? How did I do that?

Lio was like, "Sorry, I didn't notice" while you just answered them like nothing was wrong.


Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

Does town!mail-mi or scum!mail-mi usually avoid my questions?

mail-mi, I challenge you to do something more than agree with the SD.  What are your thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit?
Oh missed that. Currently going to a movie, answer when on a computer.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #257 on: June 01, 2013, 11:29:09 pm »

Sudgy, keep in mind that mail-mi's response is consistent with his posting style.  He and lio do post different in general, so I don't think it's odd that mail-mi's response is different than lio's.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #258 on: June 01, 2013, 11:37:26 pm »

unvote with a wagon this size for reasons this nonexistent, I really don't think lio is town.


I answered this before when Nkirbit made the same point, but I don't think the conclusion you guys are drawing about Lio's wagon is true.  He's had 3 votes -- one of which was your random one, so that doesn't even really count -- and a few others (Sudgy, someone else I can't remember) pointing out that it's odd that he doesn't answer the questions, but it doesn't strike me as a scum-driven wagon. It seems to me like a wagon meant to apply pressure to get someone to talk, and to point out something scummy. I just don't think that this is the wagon that scum are going to jump on to try to get a lynch going, not with so little on Lio -- they'd wait for a case with more behind it.

I actually think scum, at this point, would be more likely to oppose the wagon than hopping on board. I don't suspect Raerae for jumping on board, and it gives me a town read on her.

The fact that multiple people find someone scummy for the same thing doesn't mean that there's a scum motive behind it. Lio's ignoring the questions WAS weird, for someone who's been active.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #259 on: June 01, 2013, 11:37:50 pm »

Eevee, you earlier voted Lio because something was "off", if I'm recalling correctly -- can you expand on this?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #260 on: June 02, 2013, 12:18:48 am »

unvote with a wagon this size for reasons this nonexistent, I really don't think lio is town scum.
FTFE (fixed that for Eevee)

I think Eevee made a typo here - he goes on to say he doesn't find liopoil scummy.

I notice mail-mi has done a self-quote post again.  Why do you do that, mail-mi? 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #261 on: June 02, 2013, 12:19:54 am »

And of course, mail-mi tries to answer the question differently than lio, so as not to get suspicion...

This does seem like a bit of a stretch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #262 on: June 02, 2013, 12:39:45 am »

unvote with a wagon this size for reasons this nonexistent, I really don't think lio is town scum.
FTFE (fixed that for Eevee)

I think Eevee made a typo here - he goes on to say he doesn't find liopoil scummy.

I notice mail-mi has done a self-quote post again.  Why do you do that, mail-mi?

Yeah I assume that's what he meant -- its an easy typo to make
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #263 on: June 02, 2013, 12:41:27 am »

Hello all! it's worth note that eevee is the only real veteran in this game.

Lio, why did you think this was important to point out?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #264 on: June 02, 2013, 01:41:14 am »

And of course, mail-mi tries to answer the question differently than lio, so as not to get suspicion...
Wait what? How did I do that?

Lio was like, "Sorry, I didn't notice" while you just answered them like nothing was wrong.


Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?

Does town!mail-mi or scum!mail-mi usually avoid my questions?

mail-mi, I challenge you to do something more than agree with the SD.  What are your thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit?
Oh missed that. Currently going to a movie, answer when on a computer.

But you ignored it for a while afterwards, and got called out on it AFTER that.  After getting called out, you responded differently than lio did.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #265 on: June 02, 2013, 03:25:23 am »

Eevee, you earlier voted Lio because something was "off", if I'm recalling correctly -- can you expand on this?
I can when I get to computer access (need to dig back), but it really was the most minor thing, I like to kill RVS by making a suspicion from any small thing I can find and seeing what happens.

I also didnt realize the lio-wagon was just 3 votes and a bunch of people wondering him not answering the questions. It does make me a little less certain he is town.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #266 on: June 02, 2013, 09:31:09 am »

Hello all! it's worth note that eevee is the only real veteran in this game.

Lio, why did you think this was important to point out?
The game had just started and it was just something I noticed when discussing our opponents in my scum QT. It's not really important.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #267 on: June 02, 2013, 11:43:53 am »

Hello all! it's worth note that eevee is the only real veteran in this game.

Lio, why did you think this was important to point out?
The game had just started and it was just something I noticed when discussing our opponents in my scum QT. It's not really important.

Dude, settle down, there wasn't anything accusatory about that question. I was rereading a bit, had a question, and asked it. You've spent a lot of time defending yourself because you came under pressure early so let's move beyond that and generate some different conversation. What do you think about nkirbit and EFHW?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #268 on: June 02, 2013, 11:48:14 am »

I have a question for Ashersky (and I guess Raerae can weigh in too):

I want to look back at Nkirbit's behavior in Mean Girls, since it's his only other game. But the game's still ongoing, although he's dead. Am I allowed to look at his behavior there and compare it to his behavior here, and post about it? Or is that taboo since Mean Girls is still ongoing?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #269 on: June 02, 2013, 11:51:16 am »

I have a question for Ashersky (and I guess Raerae can weigh in too):

I want to look back at Nkirbit's behavior in Mean Girls, since it's his only other game. But the game's still ongoing, although he's dead. Am I allowed to look at his behavior there and compare it to his behavior here, and post about it? Or is that taboo since Mean Girls is still ongoing?

Ash, I have my opinions but I believe you have the final say, leaving this one to you.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #270 on: June 02, 2013, 11:52:55 am »

Raerae if Ash says it's okay but you're not okay with it, I won't do it, either
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #271 on: June 02, 2013, 11:53:10 am »

oh, I guess that came off wrong. It wasn't supposed to be sarcastic :P

raerae, questions are great and all, but you should say more about what YOU think of other players.

EFHW: Townread for high activity and pushing converstation forward.

Nkirbit: I'd like to wait for an answer to TA's question before answering.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #272 on: June 02, 2013, 11:56:08 am »

I have a question for Ashersky (and I guess Raerae can weigh in too):

I want to look back at Nkirbit's behavior in Mean Girls, since it's his only other game. But the game's still ongoing, although he's dead. Am I allowed to look at his behavior there and compare it to his behavior here, and post about it? Or is that taboo since Mean Girls is still ongoing?
As a mod for both games, I emphatically say no.  I'll allow an ash-overrule, but I strongly advise against discussing any ongoing games, even for people who are dead.  This could affect, say, the "stances" that a living scum player in either game is taking regarding that player.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #273 on: June 02, 2013, 11:59:22 am »

I have a question for Ashersky (and I guess Raerae can weigh in too):

I want to look back at Nkirbit's behavior in Mean Girls, since it's his only other game. But the game's still ongoing, although he's dead. Am I allowed to look at his behavior there and compare it to his behavior here, and post about it? Or is that taboo since Mean Girls is still ongoing?
As a mod for both games, I emphatically say no.  I'll allow an ash-overrule, but I strongly advise against discussing any ongoing games, even for people who are dead.  This could affect, say, the "stances" that a living scum player in either game is taking regarding that player.

Ok, sounds good, thanks for the clarification!

Lio, let's hear your answer now :)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #274 on: June 02, 2013, 12:17:10 pm »

aww shucks. I can understand that ruling though. Let me take a look:

I'm not sure how to make this game progress at this point?  Anyone have any ideas?
For some reason this reads town. I remember as scum in another dinner party I just disappeared when nothing was happening early D1. Then again, I got called out for that, so hmmm...

similar to EFHW, he's a big contributer. Managing to make this post:
More to come!
With more to come so early in the game isn't easy.

This response is adequate:
Is it worth noting that mail-mi still hasn't answered raerae's question, despite being online since the point at which he said he would?
I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it.  I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would.  It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.

My question for you - why were you uncomfortable pointing out something that might make mail-mi look scummy, to the point where you made an extra post saying you didn't find him scummy?

I think the first post was incomplete.  I generally don't like when players bring up issues without giving their views on it... it comes off to me as trying to direct the conversation a certain direction without having it be tied back to you.  I think it would be hypocritical of me to not meet my own standards, so I added more.  I would have made it one post had I done it again, but I can't edit, so double-posting was the best I could do.

So yeah, another town read. I need to find scum though... and I have too many townreads.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #275 on: June 02, 2013, 04:42:20 pm »

I need to find scum though... and I have too many townreads.

Tell me about it!  I'm concerned because mail-mi is my top scum read, and he's not going to be around at deadline.  If he becomes the lynch, he would need to claim.  If I'm the only one interested in maybe lynching him, there's no issue.  If it looks likely, we might want to change the deadline for either earlier or later.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #276 on: June 02, 2013, 05:19:04 pm »

As an addendum to shraeye's post, you are free to go read other games, ongoing or not, and use that information however you like.  Just don't post it here if those games are not finished.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #277 on: June 02, 2013, 05:19:32 pm »

The (soft) deadline is coming up in two or three days, do we know who we want to lynch?  The only person that has come close is lio, but I don't know about him...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #278 on: June 02, 2013, 08:37:50 pm »

I need to find scum though... and I have too many townreads.

Tell me about it!  I'm concerned because mail-mi is my top scum read, and he's not going to be around at deadline.  If he becomes the lynch, he would need to claim.  If I'm the only one interested in maybe lynching him, there's no issue.  If it looks likely, we might want to change the deadline for either earlier or later.

I am in a different boat, I have a slight scum read on a few players. Ill post more later tonight on my reads.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #279 on: June 02, 2013, 08:58:49 pm »

O, let us pay the time but needful woe,
Since it hath been beforehand with our griefs.



Vote Count Act I.IX:


liopoil (2): Twistedarcher, raerae
mail-mi (2): EFHW, sudgy

Not Voting (5): mail-mi, nkirbit, liopoil, xeiron, Eevee

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.

5 days have passed.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #280 on: June 02, 2013, 09:44:53 pm »

I'm looking forward to hearing more from everyone as the weekend ends and people come back from v/la's.  Especially Eevee, sudgy, and xeiron.  I had forgotten sudgy and xeiron were playing, not a good sign! 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #281 on: June 02, 2013, 11:02:39 pm »

I'm looking forward to hearing more from everyone as the weekend ends and people come back from v/la's.  Especially Eevee, sudgy, and xeiron.  I had forgotten sudgy and xeiron were playing, not a good sign!

I've been posting a fair bit recently.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #282 on: June 02, 2013, 11:18:08 pm »

I have... no idea who to lynch. I have a few ideas of who not to lynch, tho. First, me. Second, nkirbit. I think he's acting very townie and we would be stupid to lynch him.

Lio, maybe a lynch. I just don't know.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #283 on: June 03, 2013, 12:45:17 am »

My top scumread right now is Nkirbit. Looking back over his posts this game, while he’s trying hard to seem as if he’s getting the game going, scumhunting, he’s done remarkably little. He’s posting his views, to get them out there, but then not supporting them in any manner whatsoever, whether it’s by voting or by actually hunting for evidence.

He started out by doing a quick re-read. He’s a brief recap of his views:
Raerae: Asking good questions, moving town forward, townread.
TA: Null read, hasn’t had many opinions
Mail-mi: Ignoring questions, but would scum do that? Could see him as town or scum, so null read
EFHW: Vote on Xeiron was weird… “off and artificial”
Eevee: His scum view on Eevee is partially due to him being away, but also for a defense of EFHW and a vote on Liopoil. Scumread
Sudgy: Townread simply because of past game
Xeiron: Scumread for lurking
Liopoil: “Scumread, for sure”, in Nkirbit’s words.

Yet he backs off of Liopoil when he gets to 3 votes, with this post:

I'm also uneasy with how this whole situation is developing.  Eevee, Raerae, and TA have already voted for Lio, Sudgy has stated intent to, I've said he's one of my two top reads, and EFHW has previously voted Lio.  So out of the 8 non-lio players, 6 have already either voted for him, say they're going to, or said he's one of their top scum reads.  I don't think we'd see such a strong support for this lynch if Lio was scum.

This reads to me as if he’s trying to distance himself from a lynch if it happens. He went from having a “scumread for sure”, even after myself and Raerae had voted, to distancing himself from the lynch very quickly. It sounds like he made a read on Lio that several others had stated, then realized that supporting his lynch would put him in a scummy position (if Lio’s town) so quickly backed off.


The main point, though, is that when Nkirbit made his list of reads, he had four ‘scum reads’: EFHW, Liopoil, Eevee, and Xeiron. He’s backed off on Lio, but he still should have three scum reads. Yet he’s been active, and posting, and has done nothing to push any of his reads. If he’s town, I can’t imagine him not trying to scumhunt more!!

Nkirbit just reads to me as someone who’s trying to get his views out there so he has views out there, but trying to avoid any suspicion by joining a wagon.

Vote: Nkirbit
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #284 on: June 03, 2013, 12:52:06 am »

The clamorous owl, that nightly hoots and wonders
At our quaint spirits.



Vote Count Act I.X:


liopoil (1): raerae
mail-mi (2): EFHW, sudgy
nkirbit (1): Twistedarcher

Not Voting (5): mail-mi, nkirbit, liopoil, xeiron, Eevee

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #285 on: June 03, 2013, 01:01:27 am »

TA:  I've been extremely busy.  I spent all day saturday at a graduation party, and all day today working on my resume and looking for jobs.  I have been checking in and answered the questions that were asked for me, but other than that, I haven't been around much.
 
The reason I never joined Lio's wagon is because Lio was at L-2 already, and I didn't want to put him to L-1.  I backed off because I was worrying that his wagon didn't feel like that of a scum.  I know you disagree with me, but that's how I felt, and how I still feel.  I know Eevee has agreed with me.  I wasn't trying to distance myself from a mislynch, I was trying to avoid one!

That being said, it's not like I'm convinced Lio is town.  I was just worried that we were heading towards a lio lynch without time to discuss other options, and wanted to stop that.

As for not making a case on a player...  It's day one, and the reason I haven't made a case on a player is that I don't have one!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #286 on: June 03, 2013, 01:04:46 am »

You have your reads...EFHW, Eevee, Xeiron. Of course they're D1 reads and not rock solid, but if you feel they are more likely scum than anyone else (which you have stated that you feel), then try to bring people around to your point of view! You have said you wanted to get the game moving but didn't know how, this is a way to do it!

I was wrong when I said earlier you were playing proactively, you are playing much more cautiously than I thought you were before..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #287 on: June 03, 2013, 01:22:42 am »

It's frustrating not being able to talk about Mean Girls.

The reason that I haven't been stridently trying to bring people around to my view is that I'm not very confident in them.  I think they are more likely to be.  But say, by default, a person has a 25% chance to be scum (2 scum in 8, not including me.. if there are 2 scum.  The exact percentage doesn't matter).  My odds right now are at like 29/28/27/26/25/24/23/22 or some absurdly small range like that.  They are very small.  I don't really trust myself as a scum hunter at this point.  I'm still gathering information.

Keep in mind that I'll be around at the deadline, and will have more information then.  You could say that I could be voting someone to put pressure on them and create reactions, and perhaps you would be correct.  But I haven't, because I'm worried about mislynching.

I don't see why I should be expected to argue heavily for cases that I'm just not that sure of.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #288 on: June 03, 2013, 01:49:43 am »

You have your reads...EFHW, Eevee, Xeiron. Of course they're D1 reads and not rock solid, but if you feel they are more likely scum than anyone else (which you have stated that you feel), then try to bring people around to your point of view! You have said you wanted to get the game moving but didn't know how, this is a way to do it!

I was wrong when I said earlier you were playing proactively, you are playing much more cautiously than I thought you were before..

By doing what?  Stating why I had the views I had on those players?  I did that.  Would you prefer me to bully other players until they agreed?

This is starting to sound more and more like a case of a player starting at a conclusion then looking for evidence to support that conclusion.  I think it's ridiculous to look at my posts so far and claim I've been any less proactive than yourself.  I stated a read on each player, and why I had that read.  I didn't vote for Lio because raerae had interrupted my posts by putting Lio at L-2, and we clearly don't want to put a player at L-1 without having more time to talk it out.

I just reread you.  Before your case on me, you weren't any more proactive than I was.  And I guess that if you looked at Lio, or mail-mi, or sudgy, or eevee, or xeiron, you would find the same lack of proactiveness.  I'm not sure about EFHW and raerae off the top of my head, but they may be that way as well.  It's day one!  It looked like you had me out as a target for a possible mislynch, then decided to build a case on me with your conclusion in mind.

I think the reason that I'm the target here is because EFHW pointed out a great point against me:  When I made those two posts in a row.  I'll be the first to admit that that was legitimately scummy, and I was very careful in how I handled that situation.  I don't know if I did it well or not, but it's out there, and I think it's better evidence than anyone else has on them.

So basically, what I think happened here was:

1:  EFHW finds a scummy-looking series of posts that I made.  (They were legitimately scummy-looking, I agree, and am surprised more people didn't make an issue of them, to be honest).
2:  scum!twisted realizes that he's going to be away for the soft deadline, and wants to get his input in by making a solid case before he leaves.  He scans the thread, and picks his target!
3:  He makes a case, which he thinks looks okay, but I think is horrible.  You could have inserted several other players instead of me and the case would have read the same.
4:  He doesn't include the point that EFHW made earlier.  He hopes that after he makes his case, others will reread me and pick up on it, and connect the dots.

In summary, I think your case is bad because it's very vague.  You could have made the same case against any number of players (including yourself!).  I think it's fishy that you chose to make this case against a player who had an example of being scummy in the past, rather than someone else.

Vote: TwistedArcher

Why did you choose to reread me rather than someone else?  As you said yourself: 
I was wrong when I said earlier you were playing proactively, you are playing much more cautiously than I thought you were before..
You had me as playing proactively earlier, and then changed your mind (presumably by rereading).  Why did you reread me, and not another player you had a town read on?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #289 on: June 03, 2013, 02:18:15 am »


I am mixed on Nkirbit. While he's definitely active and trying to move the game further, he would definitely become more active rather than less active as scum. He's playing very, very proactively at parts.

I don't know why you think I would become more active as scum.  Was this just a guess?  And how do you feel about this statement now that I've been less proactive, by whatever inconsistent definition you decided to use.

Is it worth noting that mail-mi still hasn't answered raerae's question, despite being online since the point at which he said he would?
I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it.  I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would.  It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.

My question for you - why were you uncomfortable pointing out something that might make mail-mi look scummy, to the point where you made an extra post saying you didn't find him scummy?

I think the first post was incomplete.  I generally don't like when players bring up issues without giving their views on it... it comes off to me as trying to direct the conversation a certain direction without having it be tied back to you.  I think it would be hypocritical of me to not meet my own standards, so I added more.  I would have made it one post had I done it again, but I can't edit, so double-posting was the best I could do.

This seems like you're a little too over-concerned with someone calling you out for doing exactly that.

So you acknowledged that you saw this post, and found it scummy, yet you didn't bring it up in your case against me.  Why not?  Did you forget it?  I find it hard to believe, as you said you just re-read, and you had trouble believing that Lio could miss several posts.  If you're town!TA hunting scum, don't you want to dump all the evidence you have into your case?  Why did you leave this out?

I have a question for Ashersky (and I guess Raerae can weigh in too):

I want to look back at Nkirbit's behavior in Mean Girls, since it's his only other game. But the game's still ongoing, although he's dead. Am I allowed to look at his behavior there and compare it to his behavior here, and post about it? Or is that taboo since Mean Girls is still ongoing?

Why was this a post and not a PM?  Did you want this to be public information so that someone else would beat you to making a case against me?  I guess no one took your bait, so you had to do it yourself.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #290 on: June 03, 2013, 10:20:29 am »

I'm looking forward to hearing more from everyone as the weekend ends and people come back from v/la's.  Especially Eevee, sudgy, and xeiron.  I had forgotten sudgy and xeiron were playing, not a good sign!
I've been posting a fair bit recently.
You made a couple posts yesterday.  It was before those posts that I realized I had forgotten for the moment that you were playing, and that was because you haven't been expressing any opinions or engaging with anyone else.  Even this post defending yourself doesn't really participate. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #291 on: June 03, 2013, 12:18:26 pm »

I'm back home! Expect a catch up post during the next 5 hours.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #292 on: June 03, 2013, 02:50:38 pm »

Vote: nkirbit

I agree with TA's case, and I feel like he has been over-defending.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #293 on: June 03, 2013, 04:08:08 pm »

My top scumread right now is Nkirbit. Looking back over his posts this game, while he’s trying hard to seem as if he’s getting the game going, scumhunting, he’s done remarkably little. He’s posting his views, to get them out there, but then not supporting them in any manner whatsoever, whether it’s by voting or by actually hunting for evidence.

I haven't been hunting for evidence?  I'm sorry, this is blatantly wrong.  I re-read the entire thread, and stated what I thought of everyone.  I cited specific reasons for each of my views.  I don't vote because it didn't yield anything that I felt was worth voting for, with the exception of Lio.  And then I backed off Lio because I was uncomfortable with the wagon at that point.  Note that I still have a scumread on Lio, but I just didn't want to have that lynch happen at that time.

Sudgy:  If you find me scummy for actually putting effort into a game, I'm not going to apologize.  Posts like that are exactly why you often get mislynched.  That vote is as sheepy as it gets.  If I end up getting lynched, you're going to be one of the first targets tomorrow because you sheeped onto my wagon so easily.  And I think that would be a shame, as I think you're more likely town this game.  But please, please, please put more effort into your posts.  What do you think is good about TA's case?  What did you make of my objections to his case?  Do you have rebuttals for them to show why you don't think they affect his point?  If you do, that's fine, but please share them.  And if you don't, try to come up with some, and if you can't, then rethink your vote.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #294 on: June 03, 2013, 04:28:03 pm »

Sudgy:  While I have the benefit of knowing TA's case is wrong, he at least provided me with reasons for voting that I'm able to defend myself against, and I attempted to.  I don't know whether or not he will believe me, but I had the opportunity to try and convince him.

Your vote gives me absolutely no recourse.  I know in other games you were frustrated when you felt you were being targeted but weren't entirely sure why.  That's how I feel about your vote.  If you have good reasons to vote me, and state them, I'll try and defend myself, but if I can't convince you, I'll accept your vote.  But your post doesn't give me the opportunity to do so.

If you're town, you should want to give the accused a chance to defend themselves, because you don't want to mislynch.  You're going to have to at times vote for people who very well could be town, just because of the uncertainty of the game.  But you should give them a chance to prove that they are town, and you haven't done that here.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #295 on: June 03, 2013, 06:26:51 pm »

He's of the colour of the nutmeg. And of the heat of the ginger.... he is pure air and fire; and the dull elements of earth and water never appear in him, but only in patient stillness while his rider mounts him; he is indeed a horse, and all other jades you may call beasts.


Vote Count Act I.XI:


liopoil (1): raerae
mail-mi (1): EFHW
nkirbit (2): Twistedarcher, sudgy
Twistedarcher (1): nkirbit

Not Voting (4): mail-mi, liopoil, xeiron, Eevee

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 07:38:09 pm by ashersky »
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #296 on: June 03, 2013, 06:28:38 pm »

TA's case isn't the best, but it's the best we have at the moment.  All the reasons he stated are the reasons I voted for you.

I agree that people accused should defend themselves.  But town and mafia usually do it differently, generally I've seen town make shorter defenses, and scum longer ones (this isn't always the case, but it usually is).  I realized I myself did that in RMM7 (as scum), and I hoped I wouldn't get called out on it (only the person who built the case did).
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #297 on: June 03, 2013, 06:33:00 pm »

Nkirbit, I was going to re-read you and post some of my own thoughts, but you don't have an isotropic or goko username.  This helps because you can ctrl+f "isotropic [or goko] username: nkirbit" and I can read only your posts.  Could you please add an isotropic or goko username, even if you don't have one?  It helps tremendously.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #298 on: June 03, 2013, 06:35:29 pm »

Done.  I think.  Hopefully it will show up.

Keep in mind, out of my 4 posts that I posted in response to TA, 2 of them are a case on him.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #299 on: June 03, 2013, 06:36:57 pm »

Ctrl+f "posts: 0" or go to the print screen and Ctrl+f "post by: nkirbit"
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #300 on: June 03, 2013, 06:56:07 pm »

Thanks for doing that, here's things that stuck out to me from the re-read:

It does seem obvious from the intro that there are both mafia and town in this game, and those are the only two factions.  (Although a SK could exist.. I can't think of any in Shakespeare literature though... Titus Andronicus perhaps?)  A 7/2 split for town/mafia seems to be the only split that makes sense, or 6/2/SK.

There are probably some pretty insane roles, though (I hope there are!)  There could be a Puck character who causes characters to switch factions, or mistakenly target the wrong character at night, or some other form of puckish action.  Or Macbeth, a traitor, could be a town-aligned member who switches to the other faction when certain conditions are met (Perhaps there is a King Duncan, upon whose death Macbeth becomes a mafia member?  That'd be thematic!).  There are endless possibilities for cool roles.

Anyway, the proposed soft deadline works for me.  And thanks for the vote, Xeiron (not!)

Cursory reread, vote: liopoil. Feels a bit off. Town read on sudgy.
I do feel a bit off. This is my first RMM game, not sure what to do from here. maybe I'll go find a scummy person and vote for them.

This is my plan.  Until I have a reason not to, I'm going to treat it as a normal game.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here, first you're thinking of this game like a BM game, then a normal game.

Is it worth noting that mail-mi still hasn't answered raerae's question, despite being online since the point at which he said he would?

I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it.  I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would.  It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.

As I saw pointed out later, you added more to the first post.  I know as scum I've posted something then thought, "maybe that was a bad idea.  I should clarify better."  (And one time it led to my lynch...)

Lio, I didn't follow Pirates that closely either, but my view of it is that by refusing to answer questions, he doesn't make any posts that could be self-incriminating.  The best way to catch scum, especially Day 1, is by catching them in some sort of contradiction or extremely odd behavior... by never answering questions, scum can be much more sure that this will never happen.

You say that one of the best ways to catch scum is through contradictions, while you contradicted something earlier (it wasn't much, but it was something).

Your backing off of lio seemed strange...  That could be scum befriending a townie, or scum defending a partner (but still being on at some point for some towncred), or a townie thinking lio is town.

Also, you did OMGUS vote TA, which is generally considered scummy.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #301 on: June 03, 2013, 06:58:49 pm »

Sudgy, what makes nkirbit a better lynch than mail-mi or lio?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #302 on: June 03, 2013, 07:01:26 pm »

I haven't noticed much pushing towards lio, if you could, could you bring up a case or something on him?

Also, the only against lio was him not answering the questions.  While that was somewhat scummy, I nkirbit has more for him than lio does.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #303 on: June 03, 2013, 07:08:59 pm »

I haven't noticed much pushing towards lio, if you could, could you bring up a case or something on him?

Also, the only against lio was him not answering the questions.  While that was somewhat scummy, I nkirbit has more for him than lio does.


Here, I just pulled up your vote on mail-mi and your almost vote on lio.  The cases against them cases were remarkably similar.  Why was one a good vote and not the other?  Also, what do you mean you haven't noticed much pushing for lio?  Did you miss that part of the game where he was at L-2 with practically everybody ready to vote for him?


Mail-mi said he would answer raerae's question but hasn't.  Vote: mail-mi.

I was going to vote liopoil, but then you guys said he was at L-2, so I'll Vote: liopoil for now (not a real vote).  I agree that "missing" questions like that is pretty scummy.

So, lio, could you come in here and say something?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #304 on: June 03, 2013, 08:04:07 pm »

(1) :In regards to the contradiction you point out, I don't see how it is one.  In a normal game, you would generally start with theory, for example, what PRs do you think is in the game, should we claim (although we mostly skipped that here), RVS, stuff of that general persuasion.  Then you move onto things like players' reactions to RVS, reactions of that, then onto re-reads and developing cases.  I think that's the same for both Role Madness games and regular games, from my view at least.

By discussing what roles were in the game, I was just in that first theory part.  It was the early game, and we didn't have much to go on, and it was the first part of the normal progression of a game.  I just don't believe that those two statements are contradictory at all.  If this was a normal game, I would be having the same type of theory discussions.  The specific topic would be a little different, of course, but this game has followed the general flow I stated above, and I guess most games would.

(By the way, I didn't realize those were BM roles when I stated them... I have never played RMM or BM before so I wasn't exactly sure what the difference was).

(2) : I do agree, adding more to the first post is scummy-looking.  I don't have a defense here.

(3): As I stated above, I don't see those two posts as a contradiction.

(4): I don't know what OMGUS is, but I'll answer why I built a case on TA.  I re-read the game to defend his claim that I hadn't been particularly proactive, and discovered that I in fact had not been.  However, this was unintentional, so I skimmed others, including TA, and found that they also lacked pro-activeness.  I found it extremely odd that TA was calling me out as a scum for not meeting a criterion he himself did not meet, so I built a case on him.

You haven't said what you thought about my case on TA.  What do you think about it?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #305 on: June 03, 2013, 08:05:15 pm »

Raerae, what do you think of TA's case and my case?  You haven't commented on either.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #306 on: June 03, 2013, 08:12:19 pm »

I find TA's and sudgy's cases weak, and both of them scummy for presenting them and voting based on them.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #307 on: June 03, 2013, 08:16:02 pm »

Also, on lio, since I missed defending that the first point:

I still have a scumread on Lio.  I think some of the things he did were scummy, namely bringing up EFHW's history on a particular subject just to put it out there, and not being able to say why he had the reads he did when he was asked.  As to the issue of him not answering questions, I'm not sure.  It's odd, but I'm not sure it's scummy at this point.  For example, I nearly missed Sudgy asking me about Lio here!  It still could be, though, and is worth keeping in mind.

My reason for backing off Lio had less to do with a change in my read of Lio than it did looking at the situation Lio found himself in.  Over half the other players quickly ganged up on Lio, and after events in certain other games I've played, made me uneasy about the situation.  At that time, I wanted us to back off that bandwagon, because the wagon felt like a wagon that would form on a townie to me.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #308 on: June 03, 2013, 08:22:55 pm »

I'm going to restate this:  I think everyone should go back and re-read my case on TA and say what they think about it.  It's in posts #288 and #289, mostly.  I have a strong scumread on him.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #309 on: June 03, 2013, 08:38:15 pm »

Vote: TwistedArcher


I read both of their cases, and while nkirbit's case has a bit of an OMGUS tone, I think that TA's case is really weak. Defending yourself isn't scummy. Ever.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #310 on: June 03, 2013, 08:40:10 pm »

oh, and I felt like I should vote for one of the two, seeing as I think there's a good chance that at least one as scum. I think that perhaps, being brothers, they can read each other better? I know that isn't the case in mcmc-robz, but still.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #311 on: June 03, 2013, 08:45:36 pm »

Vote: TwistedArcher


I read both of their cases, and while nkirbit's case has a bit of an OMGUS tone, I think that TA's case is really weak. Defending yourself isn't scummy. Ever.

Lio, that wasn't a part of my case, at all. That was Sudgy's case.

While I find Nkirbit scummy, I find him scummy for completely different reasons than Sudgy does. I'll go back and quote Sudgy's case and where I fall on each of Sudgy's points. Then I'll respond to Nkirbit's defense.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #312 on: June 03, 2013, 08:50:00 pm »

Thanks for doing that, here's things that stuck out to me from the re-read:

It does seem obvious from the intro that there are both mafia and town in this game, and those are the only two factions.  (Although a SK could exist.. I can't think of any in Shakespeare literature though... Titus Andronicus perhaps?)  A 7/2 split for town/mafia seems to be the only split that makes sense, or 6/2/SK.

There are probably some pretty insane roles, though (I hope there are!)  There could be a Puck character who causes characters to switch factions, or mistakenly target the wrong character at night, or some other form of puckish action.  Or Macbeth, a traitor, could be a town-aligned member who switches to the other faction when certain conditions are met (Perhaps there is a King Duncan, upon whose death Macbeth becomes a mafia member?  That'd be thematic!).  There are endless possibilities for cool roles.

Anyway, the proposed soft deadline works for me.  And thanks for the vote, Xeiron (not!)

Cursory reread, vote: liopoil. Feels a bit off. Town read on sudgy.
I do feel a bit off. This is my first RMM game, not sure what to do from here. maybe I'll go find a scummy person and vote for them.

This is my plan.  Until I have a reason not to, I'm going to treat it as a normal game.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here, first you're thinking of this game like a BM game, then a normal game.



I didn't see a problem with this. It could just be someone, who's never played RMM or BM before, hypothesizing the roles. Minor contradictions such as this aren't scummy, in my eyes.

Quote from: Sudgy
Is it worth noting that mail-mi still hasn't answered raerae's question, despite being online since the point at which he said he would?

I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it.  I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would.  It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.

As I saw pointed out later, you added more to the first post.  I know as scum I've posted something then thought, "maybe that was a bad idea.  I should clarify better."  (And one time it led to my lynch...)


I don't get much from this, easier. It's easy to write multiple posts stream of consciousness and then clarify -- I did it when I was town, I did it when I was scum.

Quote
Lio, I didn't follow Pirates that closely either, but my view of it is that by refusing to answer questions, he doesn't make any posts that could be self-incriminating.  The best way to catch scum, especially Day 1, is by catching them in some sort of contradiction or extremely odd behavior... by never answering questions, scum can be much more sure that this will never happen.

You say that one of the best ways to catch scum is through contradictions, while you contradicted something earlier (it wasn't much, but it was something).


Once again, a minor contradiction that anyone posting a lot will make. People who post a lot will have two posts that disagree with one another at some point -- that doesn't make them scum!

Quote
Your backing off of lio seemed strange...  That could be scum befriending a townie, or scum defending a partner (but still being on at some point for some towncred), or a townie thinking lio is town.

Also, you did OMGUS vote TA, which is generally considered scummy.

This is the only part I agree with. I think it's more likely scum buddying a townie. He had a scum read on Lio, then backed off, so if Lio gets lynched anyways, he can be on board saying that he opposed the lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #313 on: June 03, 2013, 08:50:47 pm »

oh yeah, your case was about how he isn't being confident in his reads or pushing them and stuff. I gotta disagree there, he's been much more active than many others. And you say he's been sorta inconsistant and backing off of stuff. I think he explained not pushing the case on me much very well. And changing your mind isn't always scummy, and I don't think it is here. He's grasping onto anything of any material at all, which is good at this point D1. many of those such things don't pan out at this point.

Hmmm, I might go for a sudgy lynch, not sure. I'll take a closer look soon.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #314 on: June 03, 2013, 08:54:44 pm »

I would not support a Sudgy lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #315 on: June 03, 2013, 09:09:58 pm »

Raerae, what do you think of TA's case and my case?  You haven't commented on either.

I'm not sold on either of them.  Your vote on him did feel like an OMGUS (oh my god you're stupid) vote.  What interests me is your rather loud reaction to two votes and a single case on you. 
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #316 on: June 03, 2013, 09:12:56 pm »

oh, and I felt like I should vote for one of the two, seeing as I think there's a good chance that at least one as scum. I think that perhaps, being brothers, they can read each other better? I know that isn't the case in mcmc-robz, but still.

What?  Why?
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ashersky

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #317 on: June 03, 2013, 09:13:08 pm »

Vote Count Act I.XII:

liopoil (1): raerae
mail-mi (1): EFHW
nkirbit (2): Twistedarcher, sudgy
Twistedarcher (2): nkirbit, liopoil

Not Voting (3): mail-mi, xeiron, Eevee

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

6 days have passed.


Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #318 on: June 03, 2013, 09:14:28 pm »

I would not support a Sudgy lynch.

Why?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #319 on: June 03, 2013, 09:15:15 pm »


The reason that I haven't been stridently trying to bring people around to my view is that I'm not very confident in them.  I think they are more likely to be.  But say, by default, a person has a 25% chance to be scum (2 scum in 8, not including me.. if there are 2 scum.  The exact percentage doesn't matter).  My odds right now are at like 29/28/27/26/25/24/23/22 or some absurdly small range like that.  They are very small.  I don't really trust myself as a scum hunter at this point.  I'm still gathering information.

Keep in mind that I'll be around at the deadline, and will have more information then.  You could say that I could be voting someone to put pressure on them and create reactions, and perhaps you would be correct.  But I haven't, because I'm worried about mislynching.

I don't see why I should be expected to argue heavily for cases that I'm just not that sure of.

This is exactly what I mean about being reactive, rather than proactive. Town members WANT to find scum and lynch them. In order to win, we need to hunt down scum, and convince the majority of the players that their read is the correct one. Townies should trust themselves more than anyone else.

The bolded sentence doesn't make sense to me. Eevee, EFHW, and Xeiron, 3 people who Nkirbit said were slightly scum to him, were not anywhere near a lynch.

Scum are more likely to worry about a mislynch than town. Scum doesn't want to be on the wrong mislynch, as it's potentially incriminating. Town should be more concerned with lynching correctly, rather than avoiding mislynches.

You have your reads...EFHW, Eevee, Xeiron. Of course they're D1 reads and not rock solid, but if you feel they are more likely scum than anyone else (which you have stated that you feel), then try to bring people around to your point of view! You have said you wanted to get the game moving but didn't know how, this is a way to do it!

I was wrong when I said earlier you were playing proactively, you are playing much more cautiously than I thought you were before..

By doing what?  Stating why I had the views I had on those players?  I did that.  Would you prefer me to bully other players until they agreed?

No, I’d prefer you to build a case. Stating a scum read on someone is not building a case. You’re letting others form their own conclusions, which you then hope that they’ll be accountable for. It’s very easy to build a case, have people bandwagon that case, and then state “Yeah I thought it was scummy, but I wasn’t in favor of that lynch!” Once again, I think this is cautious play by scum afraid of being caught driving a bandwagon on a town member.

This is starting to sound more and more like a case of a player starting at a conclusion then looking for evidence to support that conclusion.  I think it's ridiculous to look at my posts so far and claim I've been any less proactive than yourself.  I stated a read on each player, and why I had that read.  I didn't vote for Lio because raerae had interrupted my posts by putting Lio at L-2, and we clearly don't want to put a player at L-1 without having more time to talk it out.

I just reread you.  Before your case on me, you weren't any more proactive than I was.  And I guess that if you looked at Lio, or mail-mi, or sudgy, or eevee, or xeiron, you would find the same lack of proactiveness.  I'm not sure about EFHW and raerae off the top of my head, but they may be that way as well.  It's day one!  It looked like you had me out as a target for a possible mislynch, then decided to build a case on me with your conclusion in mind.


The lack of proactiveness is in light of your other posts, many of which have opinions, but opinions that you're afraid to throw your weight behind. Yes, I haven't been that much more proactive than you, but I was willing to throw a vote on Lio for something I saw scummy, as was Raerae (which I find her towny for). You found him scummy, but didn't vote, and then changed your opinion (If you're town, it's truly cause you think it's a scum-driven wagon, but I believe it's a scum trying to gain town cred).

Quote
I think the reason that I'm the target here is because EFHW pointed out a great point against me:  When I made those two posts in a row.  I'll be the first to admit that that was legitimately scummy, and I was very careful in how I handled that situation.  I don't know if I did it well or not, but it's out there, and I think it's better evidence than anyone else has on them.

So basically, what I think happened here was:

1:  EFHW finds a scummy-looking series of posts that I made.  (They were legitimately scummy-looking, I agree, and am surprised more people didn't make an issue of them, to be honest).
2:  scum!twisted realizes that he's going to be away for the soft deadline, and wants to get his input in by making a solid case before he leaves.  He scans the thread, and picks his target!
3:  He makes a case, which he thinks looks okay, but I think is horrible.  You could have inserted several other players instead of me and the case would have read the same.
4:  He doesn't include the point that EFHW made earlier.  He hopes that after he makes his case, others will reread me and pick up on it, and connect the dots.


I don't think what EFHW quoted was particularly scummy -- clarifying yourself is fine! That post is the ONLY time someone had suspected you. For reference, I've included a list of posts that reference a view/vote on you:

Views regarding Nkirbit:

Xeiron RVS vote #76
Eevee says "kudos to Nkirbit for moving us forward #116
Xeiron RVS'd Nkirbit at random #117
Sudgy RVS (I think?) vote of Nkirbit #127
Lio - Nkirbit is not slightly slighty slgithy anything #140
#204 Lio - once again Nkirbit null
#205 Lio leans town because of high content
#210 EFHW's suspicion
#239 TA mixed on Nkirbit
#245 Xeiron townread on Nkirbit
#246 Mail-mi townread on Nkirbit
#274 Lio townread on Nkirbit
#282 Mail-mi townread on Nkirbit again   

I'm not reading into Xeiron's vote, and I think Sudgy's was RVS, as well. If you are saying that between #210, where EFHW's suspicion was, and between my case, we had three different players pronounce you as a town read. If you think I'm scum going for an easy mislynch, do you really think I'd pick you? I think you are scum, which is why I brought up the case.

Quote
In summary, I think your case is bad because it's very vague.  You could have made the same case against any number of players (including yourself!).  I think it's fishy that you chose to make this case against a player who had an example of being scummy in the past, rather than someone else.


The case wasn't on a lack of contribution -- it was a lack of contribution to scumhunting in light of all of your other posts. Making reads, but not throwing your weight behind them, is something that I find scummy in you.

Quote
Why did you choose to reread me rather than someone else?  As you said yourself: 
I was wrong when I said earlier you were playing proactively, you are playing much more cautiously than I thought you were before..
You had me as playing proactively earlier, and then changed your mind (presumably by rereading).  Why did you reread me, and not another player you had a town read on?
[/quote]

Your list of reads, and your vote changing on Liopoil, alerted me. I had originally thought that you WERE proactive, as you were getting your views out there. But as time moved on and you didn't place your vote anywhere, even on one of your scum reads, or attempt to build a case at all, I got curious.


I am mixed on Nkirbit. While he's definitely active and trying to move the game further, he would definitely become more active rather than less active as scum. He's playing very, very proactively at parts.

I don't know why you think I would become more active as scum.  Was this just a guess?  And how do you feel about this statement now that I've been less proactive, by whatever inconsistent definition you decided to use.

It's not a guess -- I know you pretty well! I may be wrong, but I don't think I am.

You are very active, but less proactive. As I stated above, I was fooled at first, but when I went back and re-read you, my view changed.

Is it worth noting that mail-mi still hasn't answered raerae's question, despite being online since the point at which he said he would?
I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it.  I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would.  It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.

My question for you - why were you uncomfortable pointing out something that might make mail-mi look scummy, to the point where you made an extra post saying you didn't find him scummy?

I think the first post was incomplete.  I generally don't like when players bring up issues without giving their views on it... it comes off to me as trying to direct the conversation a certain direction without having it be tied back to you.  I think it would be hypocritical of me to not meet my own standards, so I added more.  I would have made it one post had I done it again, but I can't edit, so double-posting was the best I could do.

This seems like you're a little too over-concerned with someone calling you out for doing exactly that.

So you acknowledged that you saw this post, and found it scummy, yet you didn't bring it up in your case against me.  Why not?  Did you forget it?  I find it hard to believe, as you said you just re-read, and you had trouble believing that Lio could miss several posts.  If you're town!TA hunting scum, don't you want to dump all the evidence you have into your case?  Why did you leave this out?
[/quote]

Because it's not the main reason I find you scummy. Yes, I forgot about it, as it wasn't my main point. I want a short, to-the-point case, that drives the main points home (which I failed at in this post, heh).

Quote from: Nkirbit
I have a question for Ashersky (and I guess Raerae can weigh in too):

I want to look back at Nkirbit's behavior in Mean Girls, since it's his only other game. But the game's still ongoing, although he's dead. Am I allowed to look at his behavior there and compare it to his behavior here, and post about it? Or is that taboo since Mean Girls is still ongoing?

Why was this a post and not a PM?  Did you want this to be public information so that someone else would beat you to making a case against me?  I guess no one took your bait, so you had to do it yourself.

I just had a question, and I asked it in game. I didn't think how I asked it was important (PM vs. Post), and I still don't think that. I wouldn't bait, or expect, someone to go read another game based on this -- this was for my benefit, not for anyone else's.
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #320 on: June 03, 2013, 09:17:46 pm »

Can you summarize that, please?  I'm already reading one book and don't want to start a second.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #321 on: June 03, 2013, 09:18:03 pm »

I had stuff to say about his case, so I said that.  And while defending myself, I started to feel like he was scummy, so I looked into it, realized that he's probably scum, and worked to convince other players about it.

I had never pushed a case like this before because I had never felt as strongly about a player being scum as I do about TA now.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #322 on: June 03, 2013, 09:23:11 pm »

Can you summarize that, please?  I'm already reading one book and don't want to start a second.

Nkirbit has been playing reactive, not proactive. He gets his reads out there, but doesn't want to vote on a wagon, in case he is found in a scummy position lynching a town member. Despite having scum reads, he never pushed a case on any of them, yet has posted quite a bit. He's sitting back instead of scumhunting, and has yet to build a case this game (building a case goes beyond making reads).

He accuses me of lynching him as an "easy target", yet most of the people in the game have declared a town read on him. His rebuttal to my case on him (that others haven't been proactive, either) is true, but misses the point. His case on me is almost entirely based on that he thinks I built a bad case on him.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #323 on: June 03, 2013, 09:24:08 pm »

I had stuff to say about his case, so I said that.  And while defending myself, I started to feel like he was scummy, so I looked into it, realized that he's probably scum, and worked to convince other players about it.

I had never pushed a case like this before because I had never felt as strongly about a player being scum as I do about TA now.

Do you have a case on me other than that my case on you is (your words) terrible?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #324 on: June 03, 2013, 09:25:11 pm »

Raerae, can you post a list of your reads, please? I feel as though you've been in the position of asking questions rather than answering them.

How do you feel about Nkirbit's and Eevee's arguments that Lio is town because so many people were willing to vote him?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #325 on: June 03, 2013, 09:37:11 pm »


This is exactly what I mean about being reactive, rather than proactive. Town members WANT to find scum and lynch them. In order to win, we need to hunt down scum, and convince the majority of the players that their read is the correct one. Townies should trust themselves more than anyone else.

The bolded sentence doesn't make sense to me. Eevee, EFHW, and Xeiron, 3 people who Nkirbit said were slightly scum to him, were not anywhere near a lynch.

Scum are more likely to worry about a mislynch than town. Scum doesn't want to be on the wrong mislynch, as it's potentially incriminating. Town should be more concerned with lynching correctly, rather than avoiding mislynches.


I have heavily supported two bandwagons in my mafia career.  Both were townies, and I hammered one of them.  I don't think it's unreasonable for me to be worried about a mislynch.

Also, I stated at the time that my top scumread was Lio, and he's the player I spent the most time discussing.  But I couldn't vote for him at the time for reasons discussed earlier.  There's no way in hell I'm going to vote for a player who wasn't my top scumread, unless there's an impending deadline and my top read is not happening.  Anyway, two of the other three players were V/LA at the time.  I don't know what a vote on them would have accomplished.


No, I’d prefer you to build a case. Stating a scum read on someone is not building a case. You’re letting others form their own conclusions, which you then hope that they’ll be accountable for. It’s very easy to build a case, have people bandwagon that case, and then state “Yeah I thought it was scummy, but I wasn’t in favor of that lynch!” Once again, I think this is cautious play by scum afraid of being caught driving a bandwagon on a town member.

What on earth are you talking about?  A case is "Here's player X, I think he's scummy for reasons Y and Z, and I'm fairly sure Y and Z are scummy, so vote for him!"  What I said was "Here's player X, I think he's slightly scummy for reasons Y and Z [but I'm not sure so I'm not going to ask you to vote at this point].  The reason I didn't build strong cases on these players is because I looked and I didn't find one.  Perhaps I should have made one up, would that have satisfied you?


The lack of proactiveness is in light of your other posts, many of which have opinions, but opinions that you're afraid to throw your weight behind. Yes, I haven't been that much more proactive than you, but I was willing to throw a vote on Lio for something I saw scummy, as was Raerae (which I find her towny for). You found him scummy, but didn't vote, and then changed your opinion (If you're town, it's truly cause you think it's a scum-driven wagon, but I believe it's a scum trying to gain town cred).


I don't think it's fair at all to criticize me for not voting lio.  I was considering it, and hadn't yet made a decision whether I would or not, but by the time I would have, raerae put lio at L-2 and we agreed we should not put him to L-1 at that point.  You keep bringing this point up, but ignore this circumstance.  Why?  Would you have preferred me to put Lio to L-1?

As to switching away from Lio:  They felt like town wagons to me.  I can't say specifically why, but if you look at Mean Girls, you should be able to find why I think that.  I wish I could elaborate more on this, but I can't.

   

I'm not reading into Xeiron's vote, and I think Sudgy's was RVS, as well. If you are saying that between #210, where EFHW's suspicion was, and between my case, we had three different players pronounce you as a town read. If you think I'm scum going for an easy mislynch, do you really think I'd pick you? I think you are scum, which is why I brought up the case.


I suppose this is fair enough.

Quote

The case wasn't on a lack of contribution -- it was a lack of contribution to scumhunting in light of all of your other posts. Making reads, but not throwing your weight behind them, is something that I find scummy in you.


But I haven't been scumhunting less than you!  If you believe that's the case based on you and raerae voting for lio before I had a chance to, I think that's quite the stretch.

Your list of reads, and your vote changing on Liopoil, alerted me. I had originally thought that you WERE proactive, as you were getting your views out there. But as time moved on and you didn't place your vote anywhere, even on one of your scum reads, or attempt to build a case at all, I got curious.

Before your case on me, I challenge you to find one post where you built a case to a larger extent I did.  I'll give you a hint.  It's not there.

It's not a guess -- I know you pretty well! I may be wrong, but I don't think I am.

You are very active, but less proactive. As I stated above, I was fooled at first, but when I went back and re-read you, my view changed.

You're simply wrong.  I am not less proactive.


Because it's not the main reason I find you scummy. Yes, I forgot about it, as it wasn't my main point. I want a short, to-the-point case, that drives the main points home (which I failed at in this post, heh).

I'll help you out here.
TA's case on me is that I have not been proactive.


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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #326 on: June 03, 2013, 09:37:37 pm »

Raerae, can you post a list of your reads, please? I feel as though you've been in the position of asking questions rather than answering them.

How do you feel about Nkirbit's and Eevee's arguments that Lio is town because so many people were willing to vote him?

I post reads at the end of the day, not before.  I ask questions to form those reads and I'll answer question asked of me but the thing is, I've been the only one asking questions so...exactly how am I to answer them if they haven't been asked?

I didn't find their arguments convincing which is why my vote is still on lio.  As scum I bused D1 and in a later day, it isn't unusual and with me vehemently opposed to putting him at L-1, scum could sit back and "support" the lynch if they weren't already on it.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #327 on: June 03, 2013, 09:43:07 pm »

Raerae, can you post a list of your reads, please? I feel as though you've been in the position of asking questions rather than answering them.

How do you feel about Nkirbit's and Eevee's arguments that Lio is town because so many people were willing to vote him?

For what it's worth:  I still have a scumread on Lio, as I've stated.  I was simply uneasy with the wagon.  I may be mistaken, and wanted to hear comments on what other people thought about the issue.  Eevee agreed, and TA disagreed.  But my read on Lio himself is still slightly scummy.
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #328 on: June 03, 2013, 09:45:34 pm »

Speaking of Eevee...

DUDE!!  WHERE ARE YOU????
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #329 on: June 03, 2013, 09:49:33 pm »

Vote: TwistedArcher


I read both of their cases, and while nkirbit's case has a bit of an OMGUS tone, I think that TA's case is really weak. Defending yourself isn't scummy. Ever.

oh yeah, your case was about how he isn't being confident in his reads or pushing them and stuff. I gotta disagree there, he's been much more active than many others. And you say he's been sorta inconsistant and backing off of stuff. I think he explained not pushing the case on me much very well. And changing your mind isn't always scummy, and I don't think it is here. He's grasping onto anything of any material at all, which is good at this point D1. many of those such things don't pan out at this point.

Hmmm, I might go for a sudgy lynch, not sure. I'll take a closer look soon.

So...you found me scummy for one reason (nkirbit defending himself isn't scummy), realized that was Sudgy but not me, then came up with another reason why I'm scummy?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #330 on: June 03, 2013, 09:49:51 pm »

I had stuff to say about his case, so I said that.  And while defending myself, I started to feel like he was scummy, so I looked into it, realized that he's probably scum, and worked to convince other players about it.

I had never pushed a case like this before because I had never felt as strongly about a player being scum as I do about TA now.

Do you have a case on me other than that my case on you is (your words) terrible?

Perhaps terrible was a bad word choice here.  More accurately, my issue is that your case is extremely vague.  I think you could have made the SAME EXACT CASE about Lio, for instance.  I find it troubling when a player makes a case that could be used on several player, yet uses it to reach the conclusion that a particular player is scummy.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #331 on: June 03, 2013, 09:52:14 pm »


Hmmm, I might go for a sudgy lynch, not sure. I'll take a closer look soon.

Also, what?  Why?  If you said this, you must have a reason.  What is it?  This seems completely out of left field.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #332 on: June 03, 2013, 09:52:59 pm »


Hmmm, I might go for a sudgy lynch, not sure. I'll take a closer look soon.

Also, what?  Why?  If you said this, you must have a reason.  What is it?  This seems completely out of left field.

Because he found my reasoning for the case no you scummy, then realized it was Sudgy's reasoning, not mine.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #333 on: June 03, 2013, 09:55:52 pm »

I had stuff to say about his case, so I said that.  And while defending myself, I started to feel like he was scummy, so I looked into it, realized that he's probably scum, and worked to convince other players about it.

I had never pushed a case like this before because I had never felt as strongly about a player being scum as I do about TA now.

Do you have a case on me other than that my case on you is (your words) terrible?

Perhaps terrible was a bad word choice here.  More accurately, my issue is that your case is extremely vague.  I think you could have made the SAME EXACT CASE about Lio, for instance.  I find it troubling when a player makes a case that could be used on several player, yet uses it to reach the conclusion that a particular player is scummy.

No, I couldn't have. Just went back and looked -- Lio has one post early on where he calls people "slightslightslight" town/scum (admittedly, you had slight reads, rather than real reads, as well). Yet he doesn't have any instances of calling someone scummy with an extended reason, and then not placing his vote there.

I don't think there's anyone else in this game who would fit in my case. You are by far the most egregious offender of throwing your opinion around yet being afraid to throw your vote around.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #334 on: June 03, 2013, 09:57:43 pm »

Okay.  Apart from me not voting for Lio that one time, do you have any issues with me not voting?

Also, keep in mind, I started my reads post saying "I don't feel like typing slight eight times, so keep in mind all of these reads are slight". 
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #335 on: June 03, 2013, 10:00:42 pm »

Lio's reasoning for his reads was "they were based on hardly anything."  He couldn't even explain his reads!  I find it hard to believe you actually prefer that to what Lio did.

You know, before we had this talk, I was convinced you were scum.  Now I'm much less sure.  How does your read on me feel now that I've answered some of your questions?
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #336 on: June 03, 2013, 10:04:18 pm »

So, yeah, I haven't reallly formed reads. I will do so tommorow. I'll explain the sudgy thing then. I'll make a big post and stuff.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #337 on: June 03, 2013, 10:04:41 pm »

I do want to look at Lio as a possible scum again, given the weakening of my view.

oh, and I felt like I should vote for one of the two, seeing as I think there's a good chance that at least one as scum. I think that perhaps, being brothers, they can read each other better? I know that isn't the case in mcmc-robz, but still.

This post in particular is very troubling to me.  Lio here is pretty much saying that he wants this argument between us to continue.  If you turn out to be town, this raises a lot of alarms.  It's also troubling how he responded to the wrong player's argument.  Sudgy had already supported you, so it's possible he was looking for a reason to side with me to keep the tables even.  It may be that he wants this argument to continue for as long as possible by making sure it looks like both sides have support.

In fact

Vote: Liopoil
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #338 on: June 03, 2013, 10:05:24 pm »

Lio's reasoning for his reads was "they were based on hardly anything."  He couldn't even explain his reads!  I find it hard to believe you actually prefer that to what Lio did.

You know, before we had this talk, I was convinced you were scum.  Now I'm much less sure.  How does your read on me feel now that I've answered some of your questions?

Sorry, I don't understand this. Lio's reads were based on nothing. I prefer reads based on nothing to what Lio did? What did Lio do, can you clarify?

I still have a scum read on you
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #339 on: June 03, 2013, 10:06:36 pm »

I find TA's and sudgy's cases weak, and both of them scummy for presenting them and voting based on them.

What about my case do you find weak?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #340 on: June 03, 2013, 10:07:10 pm »

I just found it odd that Lio was able to sort players into scum/null/town categories but had no explanation for why he was able to do so.  If you can't explain it, why isn't that player null?
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #341 on: June 03, 2013, 10:07:47 pm »

Unvote until I've taken a closer look. Not fair to TA to keep my vote on him before having done my reading.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #342 on: June 03, 2013, 10:08:10 pm »

I just found it odd that Lio was able to sort players into scum/null/town categories but had no explanation for why he was able to do so.  If you can't explain it, why isn't that player null?

I also thought it was weird, especially that he had you as a null read, and called him out on it.

Agree that Lio's post that you just quoted is troubling..but he's still behind you as my top read
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #343 on: June 03, 2013, 10:10:47 pm »

Okay.  Apart from me not voting for Lio that one time, do you have any issues with me not voting?

Could you please answer this?  I feel like I've asked a question related to this issue five times and you have yet to answer.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #344 on: June 03, 2013, 10:15:50 pm »

Okay.  Apart from me not voting for Lio that one time, do you have any issues with me not voting?

Could you please answer this?  I feel like I've asked a question related to this issue five times and you have yet to answer.

Yes. While I disagree with your reasoning for finding Lio's wagon more likely to make him a towny, I do think it's understandable why you wouldn't bring him to L-1. I think it's weird that you had 3 other scum reads (Xeiron, Eevee...EFHW I think?) yet didn't attempt to vote them, or look closer into whether or not they are scum. Your first vote was on me, which you could easily justify as town (but I know his case is ridiculous!). I think you've been biding your time looking for the correct wagon, or hoping one would form on a towny that would go through without you.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #345 on: June 03, 2013, 10:22:42 pm »

I didn't consider Eevee and Xeiron as viable voting options because they were V/LA.  We weren't close to a deadline, and you can't pressure a player who isn't there.  And my main reason for suspecting them was due to lack of activity.

As for EFHW... she wasn't my top read.  I had one supporting argument that I thought felt out of place, but it wasn't particularly strong, and I just didn't vote at that point.  I didn't see any compelling reason why I should vote for my second highest scum read when it was a very slight read to start with.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #346 on: June 03, 2013, 10:26:27 pm »

If you excuse my earlier non-vote for Lio, here is my voting activity this game:

(Vote: Lio), Vote: TA  Vote: Lio  - Very recent.

and yours:

Vote: Lio  Vote: Nkirbit.

Again, you are finding me scummy for not meeting criteria that you yourself do not meet.  Do you see why I think you're being unfair?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #347 on: June 03, 2013, 10:32:55 pm »

If you excuse my earlier non-vote for Lio, here is my voting activity this game:

(Vote: Lio), Vote: TA  Vote: Lio  - Very recent.

and yours:

Vote: Lio  Vote: Nkirbit.

Again, you are finding me scummy for not meeting criteria that you yourself do not meet.  Do you see why I think you're being unfair?

Yes I can, but context matters, also. I'm not talking about number of votes, I'm talking about reads unsupported by votes.

I think the fact that you're attempting to discredit my case rather than defend yourself speaks volumes, as well.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #348 on: June 03, 2013, 10:35:24 pm »

What does it say other than the fact that I think your case doesn't do a good job of making me scummy?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #349 on: June 03, 2013, 10:36:12 pm »

That you think you're scum caught for the wrong reasons, maybe.

Idk, we're beating a dead horse at this point. I'd love for others to weigh in.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #350 on: June 03, 2013, 10:39:33 pm »

I find TA's and sudgy's cases weak, and both of them scummy for presenting them and voting based on them.

What about my case do you find weak?
I don't find your descriptions of nkirbit to be accurate.  He has been as active as anyone else, and while accusing without voting can sometimes be scummy, I don't think it is here.  It was prudent not to put Lio at L-1, especially since the wagon was such a hodge-podge of RVS and weak reads.  His rationale for the two posts made sense.  In short, I agree with him that you are manufacturing a case more than discovering one.

Sudgy's listing of contradictions is similarly flimsy. 

Liopoil's assumption that one of you must be scum seems iffy to me, but I would make the same choice if I had to pick one of you.  I'm surprised to see nkirbit defending you, though, and wonder if this is a staged fight.  Saying Lio is trying to continue your fight seems like a stretch of the imagination to me.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #351 on: June 03, 2013, 10:41:51 pm »

If you excuse my earlier non-vote for Lio, here is my voting activity this game:

(Vote: Lio), Vote: TA  Vote: Lio  - Very recent.

and yours:

Vote: Lio  Vote: Nkirbit.

Again, you are finding me scummy for not meeting criteria that you yourself do not meet.  Do you see why I think you're being unfair?

Yes I can, but context matters, also. I'm not talking about number of votes, I'm talking about reads unsupported by votes.

I think the fact that you're attempting to discredit my case rather than defend yourself speaks volumes, as well.

Discrediting someone's case against you is an excellent method of defense.  This tips the balance for me.

Vote: TA
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #352 on: June 03, 2013, 10:43:20 pm »

If you excuse my earlier non-vote for Lio, here is my voting activity this game:

(Vote: Lio), Vote: TA  Vote: Lio  - Very recent.

and yours:

Vote: Lio  Vote: Nkirbit.

Again, you are finding me scummy for not meeting criteria that you yourself do not meet.  Do you see why I think you're being unfair?

Yes I can, but context matters, also. I'm not talking about number of votes, I'm talking about reads unsupported by votes.

I think the fact that you're attempting to discredit my case rather than defend yourself speaks volumes, as well.

Discrediting someone's case against you is an excellent method of defense.  This tips the balance for me.

Vote: TA

Oops, I wrote that wrong -- discrediting me, rather than discrediting my case.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #353 on: June 03, 2013, 10:44:09 pm »

If you excuse my earlier non-vote for Lio, here is my voting activity this game:

(Vote: Lio), Vote: TA  Vote: Lio  - Very recent.

and yours:

Vote: Lio  Vote: Nkirbit.

Again, you are finding me scummy for not meeting criteria that you yourself do not meet.  Do you see why I think you're being unfair?

Yes I can, but context matters, also. I'm not talking about number of votes, I'm talking about reads unsupported by votes.

I think the fact that you're attempting to discredit my case rather than defend yourself speaks volumes, as well.

Discrediting someone's case against you is an excellent method of defense.  This tips the balance for me.

Vote: TA

Oops, I wrote that wrong -- discrediting me, rather than discrediting my case.

But really, I don't see how me supporting my case, even if that's what I really meant, comes across as remotely scummy enough to tip the balance.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #354 on: June 03, 2013, 10:44:34 pm »

If you excuse my earlier non-vote for Lio, here is my voting activity this game:

(Vote: Lio), Vote: TA  Vote: Lio  - Very recent.

and yours:

Vote: Lio  Vote: Nkirbit.

Again, you are finding me scummy for not meeting criteria that you yourself do not meet.  Do you see why I think you're being unfair?

Yes I can, but context matters, also. I'm not talking about number of votes, I'm talking about reads unsupported by votes.

I think the fact that you're attempting to discredit my case rather than defend yourself speaks volumes, as well.

Context does matter, yes.  The main difference between myself and you is that I made a post summarizing my thoughts, while you didn't.  We arrived at the same conclusion (that Lio was our top scumread), you voted, and I wasn't able to because of the circumstances.  I backed off the wagon because I was uneasy with it, which you disagreed with.

The main differences between us this game, until you made your case on me:
1. I summarized my views for everyone else, while you kept them to yourself.
2. I was uneasy with how the Lio wagon was forming, while you weren't uneasy at all about it.  I don't think either is an outrageous opinion, as Eevee agreed with me, and (i think) raerae agreed with you.

If you're town, and those are the major differences between us, I don't see how you can possibly arrive at a strong scumread on me.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #355 on: June 03, 2013, 10:46:22 pm »

I'm not trying to discredit you, TA.  I'm trying to discredit your case by saying that you should find yourself scummy by applying your case to yourself, and that's clearly a broken case.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #356 on: June 03, 2013, 10:46:52 pm »

I find TA's and sudgy's cases weak, and both of them scummy for presenting them and voting based on them.

What about my case do you find weak?
I don't find your descriptions of nkirbit to be accurate.  He has been as active as anyone else, and while accusing without voting can sometimes be scummy, I don't think it is here.  It was prudent not to put Lio at L-1, especially since the wagon was such a hodge-podge of RVS and weak reads.  His rationale for the two posts made sense.  In short, I agree with him that you are manufacturing a case more than discovering one.

Sudgy's listing of contradictions is similarly flimsy. 

Liopoil's assumption that one of you must be scum seems iffy to me, but I would make the same choice if I had to pick one of you.  I'm surprised to see nkirbit defending you, though, and wonder if this is a staged fight.  Saying Lio is trying to continue your fight seems like a stretch of the imagination to me.

Okay, but 2/3 the three things I bolded ARE NOT PART OF MY CASE.

I am not voting him for being less active.
I am not voting him on account of the two posts about mail-mi.
Heck, I just stated that while the Lio thing was scummy, I was more concerned with him not building a case on EFHW, Xeiron, or Eevee, or just trying to find scum.

He has been waiting for scum to present itself, rather than going out and find scum.

If you want to vote me for my case being crap, then please do. But I'm going to fight you so hard if you vote my case for being crap when you don't know what my case is.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #357 on: June 03, 2013, 10:47:39 pm »

That you think you're scum caught for the wrong reasons, maybe.


Is that really more reasonable than me being town?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #358 on: June 03, 2013, 10:50:58 pm »

If you excuse my earlier non-vote for Lio, here is my voting activity this game:

(Vote: Lio), Vote: TA  Vote: Lio  - Very recent.

and yours:

Vote: Lio  Vote: Nkirbit.

Again, you are finding me scummy for not meeting criteria that you yourself do not meet.  Do you see why I think you're being unfair?

Yes I can, but context matters, also. I'm not talking about number of votes, I'm talking about reads unsupported by votes.

I think the fact that you're attempting to discredit my case rather than defend yourself speaks volumes, as well.

Context does matter, yes.  The main difference between myself and you is that I made a post summarizing my thoughts, while you didn't.  We arrived at the same conclusion (that Lio was our top scumread), you voted, and I wasn't able to because of the circumstances.  I backed off the wagon because I was uneasy with it, which you disagreed with.

The main differences between us this game, until you made your case on me:
1. I summarized my views for everyone else, while you kept them to yourself.
2. I was uneasy with how the Lio wagon was forming, while you weren't uneasy at all about it.  I don't think either is an outrageous opinion, as Eevee agreed with me, and (i think) raerae agreed with you.

If you're town, and those are the major differences between us, I don't see how you can possibly arrive at a strong scumread on me.

Re #1: Yes, that's true, but when I had views, I followed them up. You didn't. To me that is the major difference.
Re #2: I agree that your opinion isn't outrageous, but I also think if you're scum, it's the exact move you'd make.

I think the line of argument "I don't have confidence in my scumhunting skills so I'm not going to vote until I see a good case" is much more likely to be attributed to scum than town.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #359 on: June 03, 2013, 10:54:36 pm »

I was more concerned with him not building a case on EFHW, Xeiron, or Eevee, or just trying to find scum.

EFHW:

The first thing is her response to Xeiron's RVS vote on me, which I felt was over the top.  Not necessarily scummy, but odd enough that I want to ask why she reacted the way she did.  And then she unvotes when Xeiron explains that it was just RVS?  It was obviously RVS, you knew that from the start!  I guess here:
So far, xeiron is the only one acting scummy, for voting nkirbit without explanation.  So vote: X
It's RVS I think, trying to get some discussion going, which it successfully did.
RVS is usually accompanied by some kind of joke or teasing.

EFHW states that she didn't think it was RVS.  But I'm just not buying that she saw it as anything other than RVS.  The entire voting for xeiron and unvoting seemed very artificial to me.  Either you had a legitimate (small) amount of outrage against Xeiron's vote, which was entirely cleared up by the explanation that it was, in fact, RVS (duh!), or you staged a reaction.  It just felt much more like the second than the first.

Again, votes for lio than immediately unvotes.  Just feels very odd.  Then votes mail-mi, where her vote is parked, then defends him a little.  Which is understandable, as her vote was mainly due to his inactivity.

Overall a scum read.  Just feels off and artificial.

Eevee:  He's been very busy, so there's not much.  Comes back and defends EFHW, with this:

Kudos to nkirbit for pushing us to the right direction. I don't think I agree about EHFW though, what are you implying? "A little weird" doesn't automatically mean mafia-y.

Not sure what to make of this, honestly.  All my initial comment about EHFW stated was that it was "a little weird", not anything about EHFW being scummy for this.  Eevee defended EHFW from an accusation that I hadn't even made.  I never said anything about "A little weird" being mafia-y, and I don't know why Eevee felt the need to defend EHFW here.

Votes Liopoil for simply being "a bit off" with no further explanation.  Okay, I guess, but I'd like to hear the reason for why he feels a bit off!  And nothing since then.  He's been busy, I know, but it's weird to come back to a game you've been out of, make a vote for "someone being weird", then hop off again.  Scumread for me.

Xeiron:
Wow, there's remarkably little content here.  Like, less than both Eevee and Mail-mi, which is saying something.  His only meaningful contribution was an RVS vote on me, and calling that meaningful was a stretch.  Scumread for an extreme lack of meaningful activity.

(Quick note on Xeiron:  This is not a case, I agree.  But if you read all of Xeiron's posts to that point.. heck, this point, really, you'll see what I mean).

If you're going to continue to push this case, please please please stop misrepresenting your objection.  I have told you, multiple times, that I built cases on these players.  There they are again.  What you're accusing me of is not supporting my cases with votes.

It feels extremely silly that I have to correct you on what your case is.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #360 on: June 03, 2013, 10:55:38 pm »


Re #1: Yes, that's true, but when I had views, I followed them up. You didn't. To me that is the major difference.


This is simply not true! 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #361 on: June 03, 2013, 11:01:15 pm »

You stated reads, you did not build cases. To me, building a case involves convincing other players to vote for their scum read. You never tried to do that, ever.

Whatever. I got lynched last game for having a "ridiculous" case. I don't know what I can do to convince people that my reads are good, so maybe I should just start sheeping other people's cases, since even while nailing the right players I'm still negative utility to town.

I've said all I have to say on it, it's out there, everyone can judge for themselves.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #362 on: June 03, 2013, 11:07:36 pm »

You stated reads, you did not build cases. To me, building a case involves convincing other players to vote for their scum read. You never tried to do that, ever.

Neither did you!  By that standard, your best example was:

Liopoil has been posting about setup speculation, but not much else, other than the soft deadline. He missed raerae's questions, and mine as well (about why nkirbit is a null read when he's been posting). Not much to go off of, but Vote: Liopoil

I just think you went back and realized that I hadn't been proactive, which I agree, I haven't, by the standards you're using.  But neither has anyone else.  I think you should take that second fact and realize that it means the first fact doesn't actually make me scummy.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #363 on: June 03, 2013, 11:09:54 pm »

You stated reads, you did not build cases. To me, building a case involves convincing other players to vote for their scum read. You never tried to do that, ever.

Whatever. I got lynched last game for having a "ridiculous" case. I don't know what I can do to convince people that my reads are good, so maybe I should just start sheeping other people's cases, since even while nailing the right players I'm still negative utility to town.

I've said all I have to say on it, it's out there, everyone can judge for themselves.

You got lynched once for that.  Stop exaggerating, and stop tunneling here.  I'm not scum.

What do you think of Lio?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #364 on: June 03, 2013, 11:10:47 pm »

I guess you actually didn't exaggerate, huh.  I guess I just assumed you were from your tone.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #365 on: June 03, 2013, 11:12:02 pm »

Will you two stop?????

The sheer lack of response from other players makes me think this is town on town.  If it were town on scum, somebody would be defending one read or the other but considering you two are the only ones super convinced of your cases leads me to believe scum is just sitting back, waiting for one wagon or the other to gain steam.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #366 on: June 03, 2013, 11:16:20 pm »

Will you two stop?????

The sheer lack of response from other players makes me think this is town on town.  If it were town on scum, somebody would be defending one read or the other but considering you two are the only ones super convinced of your cases leads me to believe scum is just sitting back, waiting for one wagon or the other to gain steam.

I agree, we've probably gone a little over the top.  I'm not going to leave an accusation against me without defending it, but we should look elsewhere.

If you think this is town vs town, what do you think of lio?  I was uncomfortable with his wagon earlier, and still am, but I've seen more scummy activity from him at this point.  I think it would be enough to get me over my discomfort.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #367 on: June 03, 2013, 11:19:26 pm »

Will you two stop?????

The sheer lack of response from other players makes me think this is town on town.  If it were town on scum, somebody would be defending one read or the other but considering you two are the only ones super convinced of your cases leads me to believe scum is just sitting back, waiting for one wagon or the other to gain steam.

I agree, we've probably gone a little over the top.  I'm not going to leave an accusation against me without defending it, but we should look elsewhere.

If you think this is town vs town, what do you think of lio?  I was uncomfortable with his wagon earlier, and still am, but I've seen more scummy activity from him at this point.  I think it would be enough to get me over my discomfort.

My vote is still on him but I'm increasingly concerned with Eevee's lack of activity.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #368 on: June 03, 2013, 11:20:26 pm »

Here's another topic to discuss:  What does everything think about lynching a player like Xeiron or Mail-Mi, who has been V/LA much of the game.

Mail-mi, in particular, hasn't been contributing here.  And he's about to go V/LA for like another week.  He's been posting in mean girls occasionally, but I don't think he's posted in here for several days.  Do we want to remove these players from consideration for lynching, or look at them?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #369 on: June 03, 2013, 11:23:10 pm »

Vote Count Act I.XIII:

liopoil (2): raerae, nkirbit
nkirbit (2): Twistedarcher, sudgy
Twistedarcher (1): EFHW

Not Voting (4): mail-mi, xeiron, Eevee, liopoil

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #370 on: June 03, 2013, 11:24:35 pm »

Eevee posted a similar "I'll write a catch up post soon" in mean girls, and similarly neither did.

If we're going to lynch an inactive player, I'd rather it be Xeiron or Mail-mi.  I really do believe that Eevee is going to come back and contribute actively, while I can't say that for sure about the other two.  It's already frustrated that I can't interact with a third of the players, and I'd rather lynch the player who I'm not sure will be active.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #371 on: June 04, 2013, 12:28:21 am »

I haven't noticed much pushing towards lio, if you could, could you bring up a case or something on him?

Also, the only against lio was him not answering the questions.  While that was somewhat scummy, I nkirbit has more for him than lio does.


Here, I just pulled up your vote on mail-mi and your almost vote on lio.  The cases against them cases were remarkably similar.  Why was one a good vote and not the other?  Also, what do you mean you haven't noticed much pushing for lio?  Did you miss that part of the game where he was at L-2 with practically everybody ready to vote for him?


Mail-mi said he would answer raerae's question but hasn't.  Vote: mail-mi.

I was going to vote liopoil, but then you guys said he was at L-2, so I'll Vote: liopoil for now (not a real vote).  I agree that "missing" questions like that is pretty scummy.

So, lio, could you come in here and say something?

(I'm catching up, I'm just responding to this now)

I didn't really think mail-mi was scum.  That vote was for pressure.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #372 on: June 04, 2013, 12:35:05 am »

Xeiron, mail-mi, and Eeve, the deadline is in two days (I'm pretty sure, this is from memory), if you don't post by tomorrow night, I'm voting for you.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #373 on: June 04, 2013, 12:35:15 am »

Xeiron, mail-mi, and Eeve, the deadline is in two days (I'm pretty sure, this is from memory), if you don't post by tomorrow night, I'm voting for you.

Soft deadline, that is.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #374 on: June 04, 2013, 11:39:57 am »

I find TA's and sudgy's cases weak, and both of them scummy for presenting them and voting based on them.

What about my case do you find weak?
I don't find your descriptions of nkirbit to be accurate.  He has been as active as anyone else, and while accusing without voting can sometimes be scummy, I don't think it is here.  It was prudent not to put Lio at L-1, especially since the wagon was such a hodge-podge of RVS and weak reads.  His rationale for the two posts made sense. In short, I agree with him that you are manufacturing a case more than discovering one.

Sudgy's listing of contradictions is similarly flimsy. 

Liopoil's assumption that one of you must be scum seems iffy to me, but I would make the same choice if I had to pick one of you.  I'm surprised to see nkirbit defending you, though, and wonder if this is a staged fight.  Saying Lio is trying to continue your fight seems like a stretch of the imagination to me.

+1 for this. especially the bolded part. I also agree with the original case.

You have your reads...EFHW, Eevee, Xeiron. Of course they're D1 reads and not rock solid, but if you feel they are more likely scum than anyone else (which you have stated that you feel), then try to bring people around to your point of view! You have said you wanted to get the game moving but didn't know how, this is a way to do it!

I was wrong when I said earlier you were playing proactively, you are playing much more cautiously than I thought you were before..

By doing what?  Stating why I had the views I had on those players?  I did that.  Would you prefer me to bully other players until they agreed?

This is starting to sound more and more like a case of a player starting at a conclusion then looking for evidence to support that conclusion.  I think it's ridiculous to look at my posts so far and claim I've been any less proactive than yourself.  I stated a read on each player, and why I had that read.  I didn't vote for Lio because raerae had interrupted my posts by putting Lio at L-2, and we clearly don't want to put a player at L-1 without having more time to talk it out.

I just reread you.  Before your case on me, you weren't any more proactive than I was.  And I guess that if you looked at Lio, or mail-mi, or sudgy, or eevee, or xeiron, you would find the same lack of proactiveness.  I'm not sure about EFHW and raerae off the top of my head, but they may be that way as well.  It's day one!  It looked like you had me out as a target for a possible mislynch, then decided to build a case on me with your conclusion in mind.

I think the reason that I'm the target here is because EFHW pointed out a great point against me:  When I made those two posts in a row.  I'll be the first to admit that that was legitimately scummy, and I was very careful in how I handled that situation.  I don't know if I did it well or not, but it's out there, and I think it's better evidence than anyone else has on them.

So basically, what I think happened here was:

1:  EFHW finds a scummy-looking series of posts that I made.  (They were legitimately scummy-looking, I agree, and am surprised more people didn't make an issue of them, to be honest).
2:  scum!twisted realizes that he's going to be away for the soft deadline, and wants to get his input in by making a solid case before he leaves.  He scans the thread, and picks his target!
3:  He makes a case, which he thinks looks okay, but I think is horrible.  You could have inserted several other players instead of me and the case would have read the same.
4:  He doesn't include the point that EFHW made earlier.  He hopes that after he makes his case, others will reread me and pick up on it, and connect the dots.

In summary, I think your case is bad because it's very vague.  You could have made the same case against any number of players (including yourself!).  I think it's fishy that you chose to make this case against a player who had an example of being scummy in the past, rather than someone else.

Vote: TwistedArcher

Why did you choose to reread me rather than someone else?  As you said yourself: 
I was wrong when I said earlier you were playing proactively, you are playing much more cautiously than I thought you were before..
You had me as playing proactively earlier, and then changed your mind (presumably by rereading).  Why did you reread me, and not another player you had a town read on?

and then we have his:
If you excuse my earlier non-vote for Lio, here is my voting activity this game:

(Vote: Lio), Vote: TA  Vote: Lio  - Very recent.

and yours:

Vote: Lio  Vote: Nkirbit.

Again, you are finding me scummy for not meeting criteria that you yourself do not meet.  Do you see why I think you're being unfair?

Yes I can, but context matters, also. I'm not talking about number of votes, I'm talking about reads unsupported by votes.

I think the fact that you're attempting to discredit my case rather than defend yourself speaks volumes, as well.

Discrediting someone's case against you is an excellent method of defense.  This tips the balance for me.

Vote: TA

Oops, I wrote that wrong -- discrediting me, rather than discrediting my case.

It seems to me like the quote above discredit your case rather that your person.
Are you sure you wrote that wrong?

vote: twistedarcher
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #375 on: June 04, 2013, 11:55:57 am »

Xeiron, mail-mi, and Eeve, the deadline is in two days (I'm pretty sure, this is from memory), if you don't post by tomorrow night, I'm voting for you.

+1 for this.

I apologize for my absence and will do my best to work towards a lynch before the deadline.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #376 on: June 04, 2013, 12:52:55 pm »

I think the fact that you're attempting to discredit my case rather than defend yourself speaks volumes, as well.
Discrediting someone's case against you is an excellent method of defense.  This tips the balance for me.
Vote: TA
Oops, I wrote that wrong -- discrediting me, rather than discrediting my case.
But really, I don't see how me supporting my case, even if that's what I really meant, comes across as remotely scummy enough to tip the balance.
What tips the balance is "speaks volumes to me".  This is consistent with what seems to me to be a dramatic exaggeration of nkirbit's scumminess. 
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #377 on: June 04, 2013, 01:00:24 pm »

Will you two stop?????

The sheer lack of response from other players makes me think this is town on town.  If it were town on scum, somebody would be defending one read or the other but considering you two are the only ones super convinced of your cases leads me to believe scum is just sitting back, waiting for one wagon or the other to gain steam.

There hasn't been a sheer lack of reponses-- We've now had 3 other players (Lio, Xeiron, EFHW) jump on Nkirbit's case on me, and then had Sudgy agree with my case on Nkirbit.

For the people voting me, do you really think that, as scum, I'd create a case on the player with the biggest town reads from most people? Or do you think it's morel likely that I truly think he's town? (even if you do disagree with the case!)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #378 on: June 04, 2013, 01:03:02 pm »

I think the fact that you're attempting to discredit my case rather than defend yourself speaks volumes, as well.
Discrediting someone's case against you is an excellent method of defense.  This tips the balance for me.
Vote: TA
Oops, I wrote that wrong -- discrediting me, rather than discrediting my case.
But really, I don't see how me supporting my case, even if that's what I really meant, comes across as remotely scummy enough to tip the balance.
What tips the balance is "speaks volumes to me".  This is consistent with what seems to me to be a dramatic exaggeration of nkirbit's scumminess.

He's responded exactly how I would expect scum to respond.

What's so frustrating to me is that both you, and now Xeiron, have voted me for my case being crap. But the reasons you are giving for my case being crap have nothing to do with my case at all!

I am frustrated that it seems like no one is actually bothering to put in any effort to read what I said. If you disagree with what I ACTUALLY said, fine, it's a valid view. But the reasons you, and now Xeiron, are giving for voting me are completely misinterpreting my case and making it clear that neither of you actually read the back and forth between myself and Nkirbit.

Ironically, I think the only person who actually understands my case is Nkirbit himself.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #379 on: June 04, 2013, 01:12:36 pm »

I find TA's and sudgy's cases weak, and both of them scummy for presenting them and voting based on them.

What about my case do you find weak?
I don't find your descriptions of nkirbit to be accurate.  He has been as active as anyone else, and while accusing without voting can sometimes be scummy, I don't think it is here.  It was prudent not to put Lio at L-1, especially since the wagon was such a hodge-podge of RVS and weak reads.  His rationale for the two posts made sense. In short, I agree with him that you are manufacturing a case more than discovering one.

Sudgy's listing of contradictions is similarly flimsy. 

Liopoil's assumption that one of you must be scum seems iffy to me, but I would make the same choice if I had to pick one of you.  I'm surprised to see nkirbit defending you, though, and wonder if this is a staged fight.  Saying Lio is trying to continue your fight seems like a stretch of the imagination to me.


+1 for this. especially the bolded part. I also agree with the original case.
Once again, all the conclusions draw in that paragraph ARE NOT MY CASE. You cannot reasonably vote me for my case being manufactured if you do not understand my case!!

You have your reads...EFHW, Eevee, Xeiron. Of course they're D1 reads and not rock solid, but if you feel they are more likely scum than anyone else (which you have stated that you feel), then try to bring people around to your point of view! You have said you wanted to get the game moving but didn't know how, this is a way to do it!

I was wrong when I said earlier you were playing proactively, you are playing much more cautiously than I thought you were before..

By doing what?  Stating why I had the views I had on those players?  I did that.  Would you prefer me to bully other players until they agreed?

This is starting to sound more and more like a case of a player starting at a conclusion then looking for evidence to support that conclusion.  I think it's ridiculous to look at my posts so far and claim I've been any less proactive than yourself.  I stated a read on each player, and why I had that read.  I didn't vote for Lio because raerae had interrupted my posts by putting Lio at L-2, and we clearly don't want to put a player at L-1 without having more time to talk it out.

I just reread you.  Before your case on me, you weren't any more proactive than I was.  And I guess that if you looked at Lio, or mail-mi, or sudgy, or eevee, or xeiron, you would find the same lack of proactiveness.  I'm not sure about EFHW and raerae off the top of my head, but they may be that way as well.  It's day one!  It looked like you had me out as a target for a possible mislynch, then decided to build a case on me with your conclusion in mind.

I think the reason that I'm the target here is because EFHW pointed out a great point against me:  When I made those two posts in a row.  I'll be the first to admit that that was legitimately scummy, and I was very careful in how I handled that situation.  I don't know if I did it well or not, but it's out there, and I think it's better evidence than anyone else has on them.

So basically, what I think happened here was:

1:  EFHW finds a scummy-looking series of posts that I made.  (They were legitimately scummy-looking, I agree, and am surprised more people didn't make an issue of them, to be honest).
2:  scum!twisted realizes that he's going to be away for the soft deadline, and wants to get his input in by making a solid case before he leaves.  He scans the thread, and picks his target!
3:  He makes a case, which he thinks looks okay, but I think is horrible.  You could have inserted several other players instead of me and the case would have read the same.
4:  He doesn't include the point that EFHW made earlier.  He hopes that after he makes his case, others will reread me and pick up on it, and connect the dots.

In summary, I think your case is bad because it's very vague.  You could have made the same case against any number of players (including yourself!).  I think it's fishy that you chose to make this case against a player who had an example of being scummy in the past, rather than someone else.

Vote: TwistedArcher

Why did you choose to reread me rather than someone else?  As you said yourself: 
I was wrong when I said earlier you were playing proactively, you are playing much more cautiously than I thought you were before..
You had me as playing proactively earlier, and then changed your mind (presumably by rereading).  Why did you reread me, and not another player you had a town read on?
[/quote]

I responded to this. Did you not read my responses, or are you just choosing to ignore them?

Quote from: Xeiron
and then we have his:
If you excuse my earlier non-vote for Lio, here is my voting activity this game:

(Vote: Lio), Vote: TA  Vote: Lio  - Very recent.

and yours:

Vote: Lio  Vote: Nkirbit.

Again, you are finding me scummy for not meeting criteria that you yourself do not meet.  Do you see why I think you're being unfair?

Yes I can, but context matters, also. I'm not talking about number of votes, I'm talking about reads unsupported by votes.

I think the fact that you're attempting to discredit my case rather than defend yourself speaks volumes, as well.

Discrediting someone's case against you is an excellent method of defense.  This tips the balance for me.

Vote: TA

Oops, I wrote that wrong -- discrediting me, rather than discrediting my case.

It seems to me like the quote above discredit your case rather that your person.
Are you sure you wrote that wrong?

vote: twistedarcher

What the heck is scummy about this, exactly?? The fact that I'm supporting the case that I made??

Nkirbit's response here was not that my case was bad. It's that my case could possibly apply to me as well! (Which I disagree with). How is that discrediting the case rather than person?

Guys please actually READ my case on Nkirbit. It's clear from Xeiron and EFHW's that they haven't. Yet they've decided to park their votes on me. Lio voted for me on a reason that wasn't attributed to my case, realized it and left his vote there anyways instead of Sudgy, then only unvoted me when he was called out on it.

And you guys think that I'M the scum building a bandwagon here?? None of the votes on me (except for Nkirbit's, which is gone now) are for reasons actually related to my case other than "In short, I agree that you are manufacturing a case". I don't know how you can possibly claim that when it's very clear that no one actually understands what my case is!
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #380 on: June 04, 2013, 02:23:13 pm »

TA -- Perhaps you could succinctly summarize your case as you see it.  Apparently I lost track of it in all the back and forth.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #381 on: June 04, 2013, 02:25:59 pm »

I find TA's and sudgy's cases weak, and both of them scummy for presenting them and voting based on them.

What about my case do you find weak?
I don't find your descriptions of nkirbit to be accurate.  He has been as active as anyone else, and while accusing without voting can sometimes be scummy, I don't think it is here.  It was prudent not to put Lio at L-1, especially since the wagon was such a hodge-podge of RVS and weak reads.  His rationale for the two posts made sense. In short, I agree with him that you are manufacturing a case more than discovering one.

Sudgy's listing of contradictions is similarly flimsy. 

Liopoil's assumption that one of you must be scum seems iffy to me, but I would make the same choice if I had to pick one of you.  I'm surprised to see nkirbit defending you, though, and wonder if this is a staged fight.  Saying Lio is trying to continue your fight seems like a stretch of the imagination to me.

+1 for this. especially the bolded part. I also agree with the original case.
Which original case are you referring to?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #382 on: June 04, 2013, 02:36:42 pm »

Can you summarize that, please?  I'm already reading one book and don't want to start a second.

Nkirbit has been playing reactive, not proactive. He gets his reads out there, but doesn't want to vote on a wagon, in case he is found in a scummy position lynching a town member. Despite having scum reads, he never pushed a case on any of them, yet has posted quite a bit. He's sitting back instead of scumhunting, and has yet to build a case this game (building a case goes beyond making reads).

He accuses me of lynching him as an "easy target", yet most of the people in the game have declared a town read on him. His rebuttal to my case on him (that others haven't been proactive, either) is true, but misses the point. His case on me is almost entirely based on that he thinks I built a bad case on him.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #383 on: June 04, 2013, 03:44:29 pm »

I think it's a little unfair to respond to other people misreading your case by in turn misreading my case. My case on you wasn't that your case was bad, but that it was vague. If it was a bad case that fit only me I would've been fine with it. Hence why I didn't accuse efhw for pointing out that double post
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #384 on: June 04, 2013, 04:00:49 pm »

hi, catching up now! :)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #385 on: June 04, 2013, 04:03:08 pm »

I think it's a little unfair to respond to other people misreading your case by in turn misreading my case. My case on you wasn't that your case was bad, but that it was vague. If it was a bad case that fit only me I would've been fine with it. Hence why I didn't accuse efhw for pointing out that double post

Well yes, but it's a bad case to you because its a vague case.

But for everyone voting for me, they are sheepish this reason, and this reason only. Voting for me assumes that I made the case specifically as a mislynch one that I knew from the start was false. Which I don't understand when they have yet to understand my case.

Nkirbit, you may disagree with the case and of course find it scummy from your point of view -- that's a natural reaction on your part.

But do you find efhw and xeiron jumping aboard scummy? I just can't believe that they would both look at my case, decide its terrible, then decide its coming from scum and not from misguided town. I may very well be wrong (I don't think so, but it's possible). But I don't think they should be voting for me solely on the basis that my case is bad/vague. There's something fishy here.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #386 on: June 04, 2013, 04:11:45 pm »

Sudgy vote on me was just as sheepish as all the votes on you (other than mine) were, in my opinion.  Do you agree with that?

I think we should make an assumption that our fight is town vs town, and analyze what happened with people voting on both sides of the wagon.  As much as you may think I'm scum, from what I've seen of people's reaction to your case, I think it's very likely that I'm not getting lynched today.

You're at L-2 right now (I think).  You would be at L-1 if I voted for you.  Can you agree to step back and tell me what your views would be if you assume we're both town?   We're both active players looking to do research, I think we can come up with a good case.

Are you willing to try it?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #387 on: June 04, 2013, 04:12:46 pm »

You're actually at two votes now.  I had forgotten that Lio had unvoted.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #388 on: June 04, 2013, 04:20:31 pm »


But do you find efhw and xeiron jumping aboard scummy? I just can't believe that they would both look at my case, decide its terrible, then decide its coming from scum and not from misguided town. I may very well be wrong (I don't think so, but it's possible). But I don't think they should be voting for me solely on the basis that my case is bad/vague. There's something fishy here.

I want to go back and re-read the reactions of Sudgy, Xeiron, EFHW, and Lio.  I think it's likely there's at least one scum in there, and the reactions here are what make me think why.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #389 on: June 04, 2013, 04:21:12 pm »

So, I looked at nkirbit's and TA's post aaaaaaand I've totally flipped on my gut yet again. I now would prefer not to lynch nkirbit or TA, and if I had to choose one, probably nkirbit, but I'm not sure.
The sheer lack of response from other players makes me think this is town on town.
This rung true to me. Yes, I realize this is in direct contradiction to:
I felt like I should vote for one of the two, seeing as I think there's a good chance that at least one as scum. I think that perhaps, being brothers, they can read each other better? I know that isn't the case in mcmc-robz, but still.

good good, xeiron is back.

My gut is telling me that sudgy and eevee are the best lynches, but I haven't taken a look at their posts, which I will do so now, so that could easily change in the next 10 minutes.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #390 on: June 04, 2013, 04:43:55 pm »

Sudgy vote on me was just as sheepish as all the votes on you (other than mine) were, in my opinion.  Do you agree with that?

I think we should make an assumption that our fight is town vs town, and analyze what happened with people voting on both sides of the wagon.  As much as you may think I'm scum, from what I've seen of people's reaction to your case, I think it's very likely that I'm not getting lynched today.

You're at L-2 right now (I think).  You would be at L-1 if I voted for you.  Can you agree to step back and tell me what your views would be if you assume we're both town?   We're both active players looking to do research, I think we can come up with a good case.

Are you willing to try it?

Yes sudgys vote was sheepish, but at the same time he did back it up with his own facts and seemed to understand the case I was making. I disagreed with his reasons too but at least he had more than "If feel like TA is tryin to build a fake case" without actually responding to the actual case itself. Its very easy for efhw and xeiron to swoop in and agree with your reasoning, and the fact that they did so without understanding the key point of my case makes their votes more fishy that sudgys was to me -- but I admit I'm also biased.

I think if we assume we're both town, I'd vote lio next. Not sure on xeiron since he hasnt been around much but I really strongly agree with his reasoning. I think efhw is more likely town than xeiron is -- her misunderstanding seems more genuine and shes really trying to figure out whats going on ,  more than xeiron I think. So nkirbit > lio > xeiron > efhw. Lio flipping from voting for me on sudgys reasoning to thinking about voting sudgy to abandoning it to move his vote once again to one of us two is strange. Sudgy slides in at about the same place as efhw -- less scummy than xeiron.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #391 on: June 04, 2013, 05:15:54 pm »

Eevee has SEVEN posts. 3 of those mention V/LA, but that's no big deal.

Hi everyone!

Yeah, I think we shouldnt massclaim or talk about massclaiming day 1.
First post, anti-massclaim, null-read.
Sorry peoples, been awfully busy and neglecting the forums.

I don't particularly care about the soft deadline, I know I'd be able to blitz it out day one or day 5 if need be. Well, I guess I share raerae's opinion of dragged out days that no one can ever reread, so I'd rather have us build interesting interactions faster.

Kudos to nkirbit for pushing us to the right direction. I don't think I agree about EHFW though, what are you implying? "A little weird" doesn't automatically mean mafia-y.
all normal eevee stuff, buddying, soft-deadline whatever, lynch mafia not scum, etc. More null!
Cursory reread, vote: liopoil. Feels a bit off. Town read on sudgy.
I don't know what to make of this at all.
unvote with a wagon this size for reasons this nonexistent, I really don't think lio is town.

This is not going to be my big catch up post, still visiting family way up north. Side note, the sun practically doesn't go down at all this time of the year which is just so freaking awesome. This place is beautiful.

Anyways, I appreciate how well everyone is taking my VLA. I'd never lie about a thing like this, but I do realize I'm a very heavy undercontributor here, and I'm sorry. I'll make sure to make up for it later, I do strongly believe I'll be an asset to the town later.

Liopoil probably being town is my biggest input at the moment, the people I want to take a look at would be raerae and especially twistedarcher.

Again, sorry I've been absent and thanks for understanding. I'm town and will do my best to make up for the lost time when I get home. Feeling good about this game.
This is interesting too. I guess this is slightly scummy because of how confident he is in my townieness and how much he emphasizes being apologetic about V/LA.
Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually as more questions?
No idea. I very much doubt we'd catch rae that way.

Somehow I do have a feeling she wants to appear pro-town a little too much, but I already feel my "bad feeling" about liopoil was misguided (although useful!) and I felt yuma was trying to appear too pro-town in pirates and he was town, so I'm not putting a vote down or anything.

I generally don't like statements like "scum raerae asks more questions than town raerae" or "scum eevee buddies less than town eevee". It'a just so hard to know if someone just knows how he/she is perceived and is fooling you.
I agree with this, but again, no read :(
Eevee, you earlier voted Lio because something was "off", if I'm recalling correctly -- can you expand on this?
I can when I get to computer access (need to dig back), but it really was the most minor thing, I like to kill RVS by making a suspicion from any small thing I can find and seeing what happens.

I also didnt realize the lio-wagon was just 3 votes and a bunch of people wondering him not answering the questions. It does make me a little less certain he is town.
lean town on this. killing RVS with small things is good.
I'm back home! Expect a catch up post during the next 5 hours.
oh, really??

So I didn't find any reasons to strongly suspect him. It'd be nice if he followed through with that catch up post though.



Next, Sudgy, who has 24 posts:

slight scum vibes from RVS vote on me, and bringing up flavor claiming (his post sounded slightly against it, but not commited to it.)

- talks about soft deadline (null),

Vote: EFHW for that.  Better than nothing.
this post is totally fine, except for one thing. the "that" he is referring to is something scummy that nkirbit pointed out about EFHW. This is fine too, but look at THIS, in his very next post:
nkirbit gave EFHW a town read!  He's protecting her!  Vote: nkirbit.
so he sorta sheeps nkirbit (granted, nkirbit didn't say he found EFHW scummy for it), but then turns on him for protecting her? sure, this looks like an RVS vote, but this is at a point in the game where we are now pretty much out of RVS. this reads scummy for sure.

-after that his next two posts are about lover possibilities, then suddenly decides that's silly:
Why are we even talking about lovers anyway?  We don't even know if we have any, it would just fit with the theme...
Not neccessarily scummy, but certainly a tad inconsistant and worth of note.
I was going to vote liopoil, but then you guys said he was at L-2, so I'll Vote: liopoil for now (not a real vote).  I agree that "missing" questions like that is pretty scummy.

So, lio, could you come in here and say something?
sheeep, but that's sudgy. null on wanting to wait to vote.

-persues mail-mi for a little while, with valid reasoning. I'll have to take a look at mail-mi.

and then he sheeps TA's case, but adds more.
Thanks for doing that, here's things that stuck out to me from the re-read:

It does seem obvious from the intro that there are both mafia and town in this game, and those are the only two factions.  (Although a SK could exist.. I can't think of any in Shakespeare literature though... Titus Andronicus perhaps?)  A 7/2 split for town/mafia seems to be the only split that makes sense, or 6/2/SK.

There are probably some pretty insane roles, though (I hope there are!)  There could be a Puck character who causes characters to switch factions, or mistakenly target the wrong character at night, or some other form of puckish action.  Or Macbeth, a traitor, could be a town-aligned member who switches to the other faction when certain conditions are met (Perhaps there is a King Duncan, upon whose death Macbeth becomes a mafia member?  That'd be thematic!).  There are endless possibilities for cool roles.

Anyway, the proposed soft deadline works for me.  And thanks for the vote, Xeiron (not!)

Cursory reread, vote: liopoil. Feels a bit off. Town read on sudgy.
I do feel a bit off. This is my first RMM game, not sure what to do from here. maybe I'll go find a scummy person and vote for them.

This is my plan.  Until I have a reason not to, I'm going to treat it as a normal game.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here, first you're thinking of this game like a BM game, then a normal game.

Is it worth noting that mail-mi still hasn't answered raerae's question, despite being online since the point at which he said he would?

I actually don't find him particularly scummy for it.  I think a mafia would be much more certain to not let answering a question that they were asked, then reasked, than a town would.  It's just much more reasonable for a townie to forget to answer a question.

As I saw pointed out later, you added more to the first post.  I know as scum I've posted something then thought, "maybe that was a bad idea.  I should clarify better."  (And one time it led to my lynch...)

Lio, I didn't follow Pirates that closely either, but my view of it is that by refusing to answer questions, he doesn't make any posts that could be self-incriminating.  The best way to catch scum, especially Day 1, is by catching them in some sort of contradiction or extremely odd behavior... by never answering questions, scum can be much more sure that this will never happen.

You say that one of the best ways to catch scum is through contradictions, while you contradicted something earlier (it wasn't much, but it was something).

Your backing off of lio seemed strange...  That could be scum befriending a townie, or scum defending a partner (but still being on at some point for some towncred), or a townie thinking lio is town.

Also, you did OMGUS vote TA, which is generally considered scummy.
Wow, I disagree with a lot of this. OMGUS is not generally considered scummy. He didn't really "back of" me. contradictions are the best way to catch scum? I don't think that's true, but if it is, I'll have to vote for you. The posts he quotes are in slight disagreement at best, and double-posting for clarification has got to be null. How else should he clarify himself when he makes a mistake?
I didn't really think mail-mi was scum.  That vote was for pressure.
Woah. You definitely sounded like you thought mail-mi was scum, maybe not in that post, but you later pointed out some things you thought were scummy...

sudgy is scummier than Eevee for sure. I don't see why so many people seem to have a townread on him. He's probably my top choice for a lynch, but I haven't looked at everyone yet.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #392 on: June 04, 2013, 05:34:58 pm »

But do you find efhw and xeiron jumping aboard scummy? I just can't believe that they would both look at my case, decide its terrible, then decide its coming from scum and not from misguided town. I may very well be wrong (I don't think so, but it's possible). But I don't think they should be voting for me solely on the basis that my case is bad/vague. There's something fishy here.

To the contrary, weak cases, especially those driven forward as energetically as you are driving nkirbit's, are big scumtells.  I looked at your summary, and I don't find it very different from what I thought, and still don't think you have enough to justify such a push.  Now, I know from experience that you do this as town, but it is classic scummy behavior. 

I'd be happy to put my vote back on mail-mi, but much as I hate to say it, I think we might have to forego lynching him today because of his v/la.  Would also consider xeiron, sudgy.  I read lio as town atm, and raerae.  Not enough from Eevee to tell.  nkirbit I want to see more before deciding.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #393 on: June 04, 2013, 05:46:19 pm »

But do you find efhw and xeiron jumping aboard scummy? I just can't believe that they would both look at my case, decide its terrible, then decide its coming from scum and not from misguided town. I may very well be wrong (I don't think so, but it's possible). But I don't think they should be voting for me solely on the basis that my case is bad/vague. There's something fishy here.

To the contrary, weak cases, especially those driven forward as energetically as you are driving nkirbit's, are big scumtells.  I looked at your summary, and I don't find it very different from what I thought, and still don't think you have enough to justify such a push.  Now, I know from experience that you do this as town, but it is classic scummy behavior. 

I'd be happy to put my vote back on mail-mi, but much as I hate to say it, I think we might have to forego lynching him today because of his v/la.  Would also consider xeiron, sudgy.  I read lio as town atm, and raerae.  Not enough from Eevee to tell.  nkirbit I want to see more before deciding.

To be fair, in the last "weak case" I pushed, I totally nailed mail mi as scum. Maybe I just read intentions differently than most others -- this case is more about nkirbits playing style than any concrete evidence, but I still think it's much better than anything else.

Can you quote specific sentences of my summary that you disagree with / find uncompelling?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #394 on: June 04, 2013, 06:01:27 pm »


Quote from: EFHW
Which original case are you referring to?

Nkirbit's case on twistedarcher.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #395 on: June 04, 2013, 06:17:19 pm »

But do you find efhw and xeiron jumping aboard scummy? I just can't believe that they would both look at my case, decide its terrible, then decide its coming from scum and not from misguided town. I may very well be wrong (I don't think so, but it's possible). But I don't think they should be voting for me solely on the basis that my case is bad/vague. There's something fishy here.

To the contrary, weak cases, especially those driven forward as energetically as you are driving nkirbit's, are big scumtells.  I looked at your summary, and I don't find it very different from what I thought, and still don't think you have enough to justify such a push.  Now, I know from experience that you do this as town, but it is classic scummy behavior. 

I'd be happy to put my vote back on mail-mi, but much as I hate to say it, I think we might have to forego lynching him today because of his v/la.  Would also consider xeiron, sudgy.  I read lio as town atm, and raerae.  Not enough from Eevee to tell.  nkirbit I want to see more before deciding.

To be fair, in the last "weak case" I pushed, I totally nailed mail mi as scum. Maybe I just read intentions differently than most others -- this case is more about nkirbits playing style than any concrete evidence, but I still think it's much better than anything else.

Can you quote specific sentences of my summary that you disagree with / find uncompelling?
No, I have to go out in a minute so I'm not going to make a detailed defense of nkirbit right now.  You feel he should have been more aggressive before the point when you started accusing him.  I feel he was being similar to the group in general and if he didn't have any strong reads he was correct not to say he did.  He was quiet for a bit, but certainly has been much more present than some.  Your subsequent attacks were in response to his defense which also seemed reasonable to me.  You are pressuring me now because I'm voting you.  I think I have explained my stance enough by now.  I may stay on you or I may not. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #396 on: June 04, 2013, 06:33:58 pm »

His activity level has nothing to do with it. It's the lack of scum hunting. For someone who kept saying the game should progress and he wanted to move us forward, and making more reads than most, he made remarkably little effort to actually find scummy behavior.

This has NOTHING to do with his activity level / proactiveness in relation to others, and everything to do with his states desire to move the game forward yet inaction to dig for the evidence himself when he had many scum reads. He was around enough to have those opportunities.

I'm not asking you to defend him, I'm asking you to point out which points of my actual case you disagree with.

If he had no strong scum reads, I think he would have tried to find some -- he's smart enough to look for clues when he wants to, rather than sitting back and letting scummy behavior exhibit itself from someone else's pressure. I just am so sure that if he was town he would have at some point tried to determine who was the most scummy and try to bring people around to his point of view.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #397 on: June 04, 2013, 06:59:55 pm »

Eevee posted a similar "I'll write a catch up post soon" in mean girls, and similarly neither did.

If we're going to lynch an inactive player, I'd rather it be Xeiron or Mail-mi.  I really do believe that Eevee is going to come back and contribute actively, while I can't say that for sure about the other two.  It's already frustrated that I can't interact with a third of the players, and I'd rather lynch the player who I'm not sure will be active.

Why Eevee if he falls in the same boat as the others?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #398 on: June 04, 2013, 07:06:42 pm »

I'm not voting for kermit or TA because that game of catch they just played with giant cases was awful and felt and sounded like town on town to me.

I'm invoking LALL.

Vote: Eevee
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #399 on: June 04, 2013, 07:09:43 pm »

I'm not voting for kermit or TA because that game of catch they just played with giant cases was awful and felt and sounded like town on town to me.

I'm invoking LALL.

Vote: Eevee

You said you thought it was town on town because no one reacted. What do you think of the people who jumped on one of the cases (Sudgy on Nkirbit) (Lio for a bit, EFHW, Xeiron on myself)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #400 on: June 04, 2013, 07:16:23 pm »

So may the outward shows be least themselves:
The world is still deceived with ornament.
In law, what plea so tainted and corrupt,
But, being seasoned with a gracious voice,
Obscures the show of evil?



Vote Count Act I.XIV:


liopoil (1): nkirbit
nkirbit (2): Twistedarcher, sudgy
Twistedarcher (2): EFHW, xeiron
Eevee (1): raerae

Not Voting (3): mail-mi, Eevee, liopoil

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #401 on: June 04, 2013, 07:18:18 pm »

I'm not voting for kermit or TA because that game of catch they just played with giant cases was awful and felt and sounded like town on town to me.

I'm invoking LALL.

Vote: Eevee

You said you thought it was town on town because no one reacted. What do you think of the people who jumped on one of the cases (Sudgy on Nkirbit) (Lio for a bit, EFHW, Xeiron on myself)

People didn't jump until there was no other choice.  You guys took up like two+ pages trying to convince EACH OTHER that you were right about your case.  So, basically, you spent a million years yelling "You're scum, believe me!"  "No, you're scum, believe me!"  Did you look at the "support" for either of your cases?  It was reluctant at best.  Nobody adamantly supported or refuted either of your cases.  More than once people said, "If I had to choose..."  That isn't support in my eyes.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #402 on: June 04, 2013, 08:13:53 pm »

Raerae,
That's just not true! I've provided the first post by Sudgy, Liopoil, EFHW, and Xeiron relating to the cases. Three of them had votes immediately! Where are you getting the impression that people reluctantly joined in? People were in support of one case or another. There IS useful information to analyze here, and I don't know why you are turning a blind eye to it, when you were definitely aware of it (you asked Sudgy why he thought Nkirbit was a good lynch, for example). 



Sudgy's first post after the cases:

Vote: nkirbit

I agree with TA's case, and I feel like he has been over-defending.

EFHW's first post relating to the cases:
I find TA's and sudgy's cases weak, and both of them scummy for presenting them and voting based on them.

This was later followed up by a vote on TA a page or so later.

Lio's first post relating to the cases:
Vote: TwistedArcher


I read both of their cases, and while nkirbit's case has a bit of an OMGUS tone, I think that TA's case is really weak. Defending yourself isn't scummy. Ever.

Xeiron's first post after reading the cases (cutting a LOT out for space purposes):

Quote from: Xeiron
It seems to me like the quote above discredit your case rather that your person.
Are you sure you wrote that wrong?

vote: twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #403 on: June 04, 2013, 08:18:34 pm »

I also have no regrets for spending that many posts on the back-and-forth with Nkirbit. It's actually something we can talk about in a serious way, and analyze it. I don't know why you're trying discredit our cases, followed by the votes, but there's important stuff in there, that will become more important once we have flips later on.

I don't want to lynch a lurker today -- we have enough information to get a better chance than that, I believe.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #404 on: June 04, 2013, 08:24:41 pm »

people did indeed jump on the cases quickly. I agree now that neither case has much to it. What do people think of sudgy?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #405 on: June 04, 2013, 08:33:58 pm »

people did indeed jump on the cases quickly. I agree now that neither case has much to it. What do people think of sudgy?

I'm biased because he agreed with me, but towny. He was the only person who provided his own reads to justify hopping on a bandwagon, which to me reads less scummy than simply agreeing with someone else's reads (especially as I feel that efhw and xeiron didn't read my case closely). Although I disagree with his reasons for finding nkirbit scummy.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #406 on: June 04, 2013, 09:56:07 pm »

Vote: Eevee until he gets in here.  When he does, I'll move back to nkirbit (or someone else if I need to).  Soft deadline is tomorrow, right?
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #407 on: June 04, 2013, 09:58:18 pm »

Oh, he posted in V/LA...  Vote: mail-mi then.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #408 on: June 04, 2013, 10:59:21 pm »

Guys, we really need to figure out who to lynch.  TA and nkirbit have been accused recently, or we could go with an older option (or a new one, but it might be too late for that).
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #409 on: June 04, 2013, 11:40:10 pm »

Oh, he posted in V/LA...  Vote: mail-mi then.

Mail-mi is also v/la...why does one get a pass when the other doesn't?

Vote: sudgy
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #410 on: June 04, 2013, 11:43:42 pm »

He's v/la?  Sorry, I didn't know that.  I'll go back to Vote: nkirbit then.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Full - N0/Confirmation Phase)
« Reply #411 on: June 05, 2013, 12:08:01 am »

Vote Count Act I.XV:

liopoil (1): nkirbit
nkirbit (2): Twistedarcher, sudgy
Twistedarcher (2): EFHW, xeiron
sudgy (1): raerae

Not Voting (3): mail-mi, Eevee, liopoil

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Over 7 days have passed.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #412 on: June 05, 2013, 12:14:35 am »

Oh, he posted in V/LA...  Vote: mail-mi then.

Mail-mi is also v/la...why does one get a pass when the other doesn't?

Vote: sudgy

This is really vote worthy? Just seems like a simple mix-up to me.

Please answer #402. Why did you get the impression that no one supported either bandwagon? Now that you know it's not true, what do you think of the people who hopped on one of the cases?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #413 on: June 05, 2013, 12:21:13 am »


I didn't consider sudgy's vote because it was typical sheepy sudgy, really had no bearing, and wasn't going to get a following.  Lio and Xeiron's votes came after 12+ posts from the two of you.  And they weren't short posts.  Your EFHW quote proves my point. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #414 on: June 05, 2013, 12:27:22 am »


This is really vote worthy? Just seems like a simple mix-up to me.

Please answer #402. Why did you get the impression that no one supported either bandwagon? Now that you know it's not true, what do you think of the people who hopped on one of the cases?
[/quote]

Yes.  Yes, it is.  Sudgy has been throwing votes around then pushing for a lynch.  Our soft-deadline is tomorrow and I will push like hell that we stick to it.  This isn't helpful.  You can't throw votes on 19 people without a reason and then claim we really need to pick a lynch.  Just doesn't make sense.

Answer for 402 is above.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #415 on: June 05, 2013, 12:47:42 am »


This is really vote worthy? Just seems like a simple mix-up to me.

Please answer #402. Why did you get the impression that no one supported either bandwagon? Now that you know it's not true, what do you think of the people who hopped on one of the cases?

Yes.  Yes, it is.  Sudgy has been throwing votes around then pushing for a lynch.  Our soft-deadline is tomorrow and I will push like hell that we stick to it.  This isn't helpful.  You can't throw votes on 19 people without a reason and then claim we really need to pick a lynch.  Just doesn't make sense.

Answer for 402 is above.
[/quote]

I said I would go back to nkirbit, but the people not here really need to be here.  Xeiron posted (but then stopped, kind of interesting...), and mail-mi and Eevee have V/LAs.

Actually, thinking of Xeiron, I might need to re-read him, I don't remember much about him (and his recent posts almost seem to just be to not be "lurking" anymore)...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #416 on: June 05, 2013, 12:47:55 am »

Argh, double quote fail.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #417 on: June 05, 2013, 01:09:34 am »


I didn't consider sudgy's vote because it was typical sheepy sudgy, really had no bearing, and wasn't going to get a following.  Lio and Xeiron's votes came after 12+ posts from the two of you.  And they weren't short posts.  Your EFHW quote proves my point.

My impression from the votes wasn't thy they were either or because we were arguing so much, but that efhw and xeiron and lio felt they had good reasons for voting.

Lio,xeiron, efhw, were your votes made because of pressure by myself and nkirbit or because you thought we were most likely to turn up scum?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #418 on: June 05, 2013, 01:10:30 am »

So are we considering both eevee and mail I off limits for a lynch tomorrow?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #419 on: June 05, 2013, 01:12:54 am »

Eevee said he should be around...  Tomorrow night...  It is annoying that they're both gone during the soft deadline.  We need to try to build consensus before then I think, so we don't drag it on an extra 285 days.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #420 on: June 05, 2013, 01:14:35 am »

If eevee is going to be around I'd rather
Push the soft deadline back 24 hours. Ill also be on an airplane
Tomorrow evening as well.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #421 on: June 05, 2013, 01:15:41 am »

That kills two of our bankable days...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #422 on: June 05, 2013, 01:18:14 am »


I didn't consider sudgy's vote because it was typical sheepy sudgy, really had no bearing, and wasn't going to get a following.  Lio and Xeiron's votes came after 12+ posts from the two of you.  And they weren't short posts.  Your EFHW quote proves my point.

But efhw got an immediate read, even though it wasn't a vote, it's still something to analyze from the arguments.

Sudgy did sheep but with his own reasons which I think is worth noting.

I don't get what you are saying overall -- that none of the votes really matter and they're useless to analyze? I don't know why they should get a free pass from analysis -- a vote is a vote, and it's telling that most of them ended up on me, rather than on nkirbit.  (Should be for you too, if you think the arguments are equally bad)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #423 on: June 05, 2013, 01:19:36 am »

That kills two of our bankable days...

It sucks... But is that better than only having 7 around at deadline? If both are town that basically guarantees a mislynch, as we'd need all 5 town members to agree on the same case (assuming 2 scum -- 3 scum and were in even worse shape)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #424 on: June 05, 2013, 01:19:55 am »

Worse, not better
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #425 on: June 05, 2013, 09:26:43 am »


I didn't consider sudgy's vote because it was typical sheepy sudgy, really had no bearing, and wasn't going to get a following.  Lio and Xeiron's votes came after 12+ posts from the two of you.  And they weren't short posts.  Your EFHW quote proves my point.

My impression from the votes wasn't thy they were either or because we were arguing so much, but that efhw and xeiron and lio felt they had good reasons for voting.

Lio,xeiron, efhw, were your votes made because of pressure by myself and nkirbit or because you thought we were most likely to turn up scum?

I voted for twisted because I think he has the highest chance of flipping scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #426 on: June 05, 2013, 10:07:58 am »


I didn't consider sudgy's vote because it was typical sheepy sudgy, really had no bearing, and wasn't going to get a following.  Lio and Xeiron's votes came after 12+ posts from the two of you.  And they weren't short posts.  Your EFHW quote proves my point.

But efhw got an immediate read, even though it wasn't a vote, it's still something to analyze from the arguments.

Sudgy did sheep but with his own reasons which I think is worth noting.

I don't get what you are saying overall -- that none of the votes really matter and they're useless to analyze? I don't know why they should get a free pass from analysis -- a vote is a vote, and it's telling that most of them ended up on me, rather than on nkirbit.  (Should be for you too, if you think the arguments are equally bad)

TA - The votes were on you because you were the instigator and your case didn't warrant the energy behind the attacks.  Remember pirates?  You got mislynched there for similar reasons, I think.  I don't know if it means you're scum.  I'm keeping my options open.  But an exaggerated weak case -- in my opinion, of course -- will get my vote. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #427 on: June 05, 2013, 11:18:13 am »

Right. But my case there wasn't exaggerated, it was entirely accurate. I was so sure that mail-mi was scum then, just as I'm sure that nkirbit is scum here.

I am struggling with understanding how to bring people around to my point of view, but I guess everyone plays this game and scumhunts differently than I do -- a players intentions stick out to me though, and I'm willing to make cases and push them when I've found something.

I get that the things I find scummy may weigh less in other people's minds, but it's one of the first things that will always stick out to me. If nkirbit turns up scum eventually I hope everyone will start to actually listen to my reads, or at least understand that they're coming from a true desire to find scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #428 on: June 05, 2013, 11:21:01 am »

If I got mislynched in pirates for doing this same thing, why are you votin for me for doing the exact same thing?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #429 on: June 05, 2013, 11:41:02 am »

Right. But my case there wasn't exaggerated, it was entirely accurate. I was so sure that mail-mi was scum then, just as I'm sure that nkirbit is scum here.

I am struggling with understanding how to bring people around to my point of view, but I guess everyone plays this game and scumhunts differently than I do -- a players intentions stick out to me though, and I'm willing to make cases and push them when I've found something.

I get that the things I find scummy may weigh less in other people's minds, but it's one of the first things that will always stick out to me. If nkirbit turns up scum eventually I hope everyone will start to actually listen to my reads, or at least understand that they're coming from a true desire to find scum.

Man, you're really going to have to take yourself down a notch after this game.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #430 on: June 05, 2013, 11:43:18 am »

Right. But my case there wasn't exaggerated, it was entirely accurate. I was so sure that mail-mi was scum then, just as I'm sure that nkirbit is scum here.

I am struggling with understanding how to bring people around to my point of view, but I guess everyone plays this game and scumhunts differently than I do -- a players intentions stick out to me though, and I'm willing to make cases and push them when I've found something.

I get that the things I find scummy may weigh less in other people's minds, but it's one of the first things that will always stick out to me. If nkirbit turns up scum eventually I hope everyone will start to actually listen to my reads, or at least understand that they're coming from a true desire to find scum.

Man, you're really going to have to take yourself down a notch after this game.

Nah, I'm never going to see someone who I think is scummy, and not call them out on it because I'm afraid of getting lynched.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #431 on: June 05, 2013, 11:50:35 am »

But if you're town, you're making it very very difficult for us to lynch correctly today
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #432 on: June 05, 2013, 12:12:22 pm »

You called me out initially on post #283.  It's now post #431.  Everyone knows what your case is.  Why haven't you moved on?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #433 on: June 05, 2013, 12:12:50 pm »

Well, I guess you would say that some people don't actually know what your case is, but everyone's seen it at least.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #434 on: June 05, 2013, 12:37:23 pm »

First, I'm terribly sorry for disappearing like this. I know it's extremely inconsiderate to both the mods and also you, fellow players. Here now though, trying to make amends!

Just read the past five pages, the biggest contribution I want to hammer home is that TwistedArcher-nkirbit looks like a VERY clear town on town for me. In fact, given we only had three people being around to contribute, I think the stuff they managed to create is just superb.

Off the three, I think nkirbit comes off the towniest. Everything he says to TA makes perfect sense to me. Ta's point about starting to push for nkirbit being bad for scum-TA resonates with me, and he seems to me very similar to himself as town in pirates, so I think he is town as well. Liopoil also is a towread, partially because everyone was so against him at one point* and partially because he legitimely seems interested in figuring stuff out.

* This is towny not only because scum doesn't push for their partners. It's also that people play more refined when they draw scum, they don't get suspected day 1 because they make sure to not do anything to attract suspicion.

So, after I eliminate my top three town reads from the lynch pool, I'm left with:

raerae: Isn't doing anything but asking questions, questions I don't even find that useful. I have nothing else to say, which I guess is neutral.
EHFW: Is posting enough to not attract suspicion for lurking. I find anyone supporting the "one of TA or nkirbit is scum" notion scummy, and EHFW seemed to join that idea in a way that could be scum silently nodding along with an impending mislynch in sight.
Xeiron: I guess has been vla a lot? Not very memorable for me, which is scummy.
mail-mi: Same as above.
Sudgy: Probably my top lynch candidate, but I want to reread Xeiron and mail-mi as well. Actually, I'll reread all my scum suspects and come back with another post.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #435 on: June 05, 2013, 01:01:16 pm »

mail-mi: Has minimal contributions, no wonder I didn't remember anything from him. The lack of posts is so egregious I don't even find it that scummy anymore, and the few opinions he has expressed (town read on nkirbit and slight scum read on xeiron) I agree with, so probably not my preferred lynch. Dude, give us more though!

xeiron: Yeah, had been away a lot, seems to be back now which is excellent. Him I really find scummy though, first for the lack of contributions (he literally had zero before his recent siding with TwistedArcher), and then for choosing the scummy stance when finally appearing. Really, I agree that nkirbit is "on the right", but I disagree with drawing the conclusion that that would mean TA is scum. I think scum is afraid of the truth getting out, because eliminating TA and nkirbit from todays lynch targets will make it MUCH more likely we hit either of them (assuming there are two).

sudgy: Okay, going into this reread I plan on voting for xeiron unless sudgy is even scummier, and he just might be. First of all, he is maintaining a highish post count, a lot of it with pretty meaningless posts. He is also quick to extend little suspicions for things I don't really find mafia-y (voting people over small mistakes, etc). I think he tries to appear like he is scumhunting, but his heart really isn't in finding scum, but in preserving his team and not being suspected.

Dunno if scum sudgy would be this clumsy about it though, so I'll Vote: xeiron.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #436 on: June 05, 2013, 01:06:20 pm »

mail-mi: Has minimal contributions, no wonder I didn't remember anything from him. The lack of posts is so egregious I don't even find it that scummy anymore, and the few opinions he has expressed (town read on nkirbit and slight scum read on xeiron) I agree with, so probably not my preferred lynch. Dude, give us more though!

xeiron: Yeah, had been away a lot, seems to be back now which is excellent. Him I really find scummy though, first for the lack of contributions (he literally had zero before his recent siding with TwistedArcher), and then for choosing the scummy stance when finally appearing. Really, I agree that nkirbit is "on the right", but I disagree with drawing the conclusion that that would mean TA is scum. I think scum is afraid of the truth getting out, because eliminating TA and nkirbit from todays lynch targets will make it MUCH more likely we hit either of them (assuming there are two).

sudgy: Okay, going into this reread I plan on voting for xeiron unless sudgy is even scummier, and he just might be. First of all, he is maintaining a highish post count, a lot of it with pretty meaningless posts. He is also quick to extend little suspicions for things I don't really find mafia-y (voting people over small mistakes, etc). I think he tries to appear like he is scumhunting, but his heart really isn't in finding scum, but in preserving his team and not being suspected.

Dunno if scum sudgy would be this clumsy about it though, so I'll Vote: xeiron.

When did he do this? I remember efhw and xeiron voting me for a small "mistake" and raerae voting sudgy for a mistake. When did sudgy do this though, I can't recall anything
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #437 on: June 05, 2013, 01:08:29 pm »

You called me out initially on post #283.  It's now post #431.  Everyone knows what your case is.  Why haven't you moved on?

Because I think you're scum! But no one else does so I will table it for today I suppose.

Want to lynch: nkirbit
Would lynch: lio xeiron raerae

 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #438 on: June 05, 2013, 01:10:35 pm »

Eevee, you're giving lio town status because his wagon formed quickly. But from your point of view, the main people in favor of it were myself (town read) nkirbit (town read) and raerae (null read), along with your vote.

If you think everyone on his wagon is more towny than scummy, then you can't really argue that his wagon was a scummy one at the same time..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #439 on: June 05, 2013, 01:40:43 pm »

You called me out initially on post #283.  It's now post #431.  Everyone knows what your case is.  Why haven't you moved on?

Because I think you're scum! But no one else does so I will table it for today I suppose.

Want to lynch: nkirbit
Would lynch: lio xeiron raerae

Would lynch me? Because I don't find merit in your case? Good idea. I guess I should trust you and your reads without question.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #440 on: June 05, 2013, 01:47:41 pm »

Also, I am so sorry about this but I won't be around until at most 30 minutes before deadline because the time of this party got changed this morning.

My vote is on sudgy but I'd be comfortable with xeiron or EFHW because they were active and have since slipped into the background. Seems like they're waiting for something to come of the TA/kermit thing.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #441 on: June 05, 2013, 02:00:37 pm »

Eevee, you're giving lio town status because his wagon formed quickly. But from your point of view, the main people in favor of it were myself (town read) nkirbit (town read) and raerae (null read), along with your vote.

If you think everyone on his wagon is more towny than scummy, then you can't really argue that his wagon was a scummy one at the same time..
That's a very good point. Well, my town read on him is weaker than my town read on nkirbit and you, and stuff he said in the middle of your argument contributed to it as well (don't remember what exactly though). Hmm, I am open to the idea of being wrong about liopoil, but I think both xeiron and sudgy are still way better targets. Also, scum just tends not to do stuff that causes wagons early.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #442 on: June 05, 2013, 02:01:10 pm »

raerae, what is your read on me, now that I'm back posting?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #443 on: June 05, 2013, 03:22:20 pm »

You called me out initially on post #283.  It's now post #431.  Everyone knows what your case is.  Why haven't you moved on?

Because I think you're scum! But no one else does so I will table it for today I suppose.

Want to lynch: nkirbit
Would lynch: lio xeiron raerae

Would lynch me? Because I don't find merit in your case? Good idea. I guess I should trust you and your reads without question.

I never said that!

I'm suspicious because you are asking questions most of the time, but when I asked you several questions, you avoided the answers. You wouldn't give a list of reads until the end of d1. More suspicious though you were very quick to dismiss people who agreed with either mine or nkirbits case. I think it's some of the most important information we have, and we should be analyzing it rather than dismissing it.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #444 on: June 05, 2013, 03:24:20 pm »

When is soft deadline? I'm on an airplane that's about to lift off but ill be on later tonight.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #445 on: June 05, 2013, 03:26:20 pm »

Eevee posted a similar "I'll write a catch up post soon" in mean girls, and similarly neither did.

If we're going to lynch an inactive player, I'd rather it be Xeiron or Mail-mi.  I really do believe that Eevee is going to come back and contribute actively, while I can't say that for sure about the other two.  It's already frustrated that I can't interact with a third of the players, and I'd rather lynch the player who I'm not sure will be active.

Why Eevee if he falls in the same boat as the others?

Because Eevee coming back is going to be a lot more of a upswing in activity than mail-mi or xeiron coming back would me.  Eevee's just naturally more active than especially mail-mi, and I believe Xeiron as well.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #446 on: June 05, 2013, 03:27:20 pm »

8:30 f.ds time
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #447 on: June 05, 2013, 03:28:23 pm »

Eevee: Half of my votes have been for pressure.  Raerae seems to ask questions trying to do things, and I sometimes vote for people trying to do things.

Also, I have a townread on raerae.  She seems to be her normal self, a lot different than she was in MXXII.

I'm going to re-read xeiron, then I'll say who I want to lynch/will lynch.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #448 on: June 05, 2013, 03:31:29 pm »

Wow, xeiron has barely done anything.  All he's done is vote nkirbit randomly at the beginning, vote TA later, and applaud people for saying certain things.  He's probably one of our worst lurkers.

I would be fine with lynching nkirbit or xeiron at the moment, and I might be able to be convinced to vote someone else if the case is good enough.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #449 on: June 05, 2013, 03:34:17 pm »

Vote: Eevee until he gets in here.  When he does, I'll move back to nkirbit (or someone else if I need to).  Soft deadline is tomorrow, right?

Oh, he posted in V/LA...  Vote: mail-mi then.

He's v/la?  Sorry, I didn't know that.  I'll go back to Vote: nkirbit then.

My gosh, this is outrageous.  So, your vote on eevee initially is because he's not around (it's can't be because you think he's scummy, because you intend to move when he gets back).  Then you vote for mail-mi for the same reason, and oops, he's not around either.  Then you move back to me, presumably because I'm your top scum-read.

If I'm your top scum-read, why in the world are you interested in voting for players who aren't here over your top scum-read?  Why are you moving your vote around so much?  This is just a very bizarre pattern.. if I'm town and I think I have a good read on a player, I'm not going to move off of it to vote for a player who hasn't been around all week!  I want my vote to stay on the scummy player because I want him to be lynched!

If you had a reason for your read on me changing, that's fine, but that's not what happened because you jumped back on me after there was no inactive player to vote for.  Why were you so interested in parking a vote on an inactive player?  To pressure them?  They're not there!

I'm as frustrated as anyone is as those players.  I know it's life, but it sucks that we have to deal with that issue playing this game.  But your behavior here was very odd.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #450 on: June 05, 2013, 03:37:34 pm »

I already said about 837495 times already, those were for pressure.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #451 on: June 05, 2013, 03:39:50 pm »

Also, I have a townread on raerae.  She seems to be her normal self, a lot different than she was in MXXII.

Can you support this?  I've never read MXXII, but I'm skimming it now and am not convinced that she is "a lot different" there.  That doesn't necessarily implicate her.. she may simply be experienced enough to make her town and scum selves similar.  But support your case please.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #452 on: June 05, 2013, 03:43:20 pm »

Also, I have a townread on raerae.  She seems to be her normal self, a lot different than she was in MXXII.

Can you support this?  I've never read MXXII, but I'm skimming it now and am not convinced that she is "a lot different" there.  That doesn't necessarily implicate her.. she may simply be experienced enough to make her town and scum selves similar.  But support your case please.
I don't agree with this. Raerae is pretty good, she won't be caught because she is similar or not. She'll feel similar or not for reasons outside her alignment.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #453 on: June 05, 2013, 03:45:39 pm »

I already said about 837495 times already, those were for pressure.
What pressure though? Wasn't it fairly obvious I simply couldn't get to the forums and that I would start posting once that changed again. At the very minimum what you did was a very poor way of using your vote, I don't know if it's particularly mafia-y, but maybe you did it to seem active and scumhunty without actually commiting to anything.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #454 on: June 05, 2013, 03:47:31 pm »

I already said about 837495 times already, those were for pressure.
What pressure though? Wasn't it fairly obvious I simply couldn't get to the forums and that I would start posting once that changed again. At the very minimum what you did was a very poor way of using your vote, I don't know if it's particularly mafia-y, but maybe you did it to seem active and scumhunty without actually commiting to anything.

I didn't notice that you were gone, that's why I changed later.   I caught up in this thread before I caught up in the V/LA thread.


Also, I have a townread on raerae.  She seems to be her normal self, a lot different than she was in MXXII.

Can you support this?  I've never read MXXII, but I'm skimming it now and am not convinced that she is "a lot different" there.  That doesn't necessarily implicate her.. she may simply be experienced enough to make her town and scum selves similar.  But support your case please.
I don't agree with this. Raerae is pretty good, she won't be caught because she is similar or not. She'll feel similar or not for reasons outside her alignment.

She was ultra-lurky (it was justified for the first bit but afterwards not much) and not asking many questions there.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #455 on: June 05, 2013, 03:49:31 pm »

I think "questionsasking raerae = town raerae" is just SUCH an oversimplification. You really think that's something she wouldn't realize to do as scum just as well?

The explanation about reading this thread before VLA thread makes sense, if true.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #456 on: June 05, 2013, 03:50:11 pm »

I'm only comparing day ones here, because I think that's all that's fair to compare and all that I really want to read at this point, but after the point she subbed in, I don't view her as lurking at all.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #457 on: June 05, 2013, 03:56:46 pm »

Anyway, I mostly agree with Eevee's comeback post.  I'm not as convinced as he is that TA is town, but I'm not as convinced as I earlier was that he is scum.  This being said, I want to go back and re-read raerae, because either:

1) I get a scumread on raerae and will be happy supporting that lynch; or
2) I get a null or town-read on raerae, and a lot of my worries about the support of Lio's bandwagon get ameliorated, and I get much comfortable voting Lio.  At this point I'd want to re-read him.

But off I go to re-read raerae.  Back in a bit!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #458 on: June 05, 2013, 04:00:31 pm »

We're coming down to deadline, so time to solidify my reads.  BTW, I will be around until 5 and then after 8, probably not in between.

TA: I voted for him because of this:

Again, you are finding me scummy for not meeting criteria that you yourself do not meet.  Do you see why I think you're being unfair?
Yes I can, but context matters, also. I'm not talking about number of votes, I'm talking about reads unsupported by votes.

I think the fact that you're attempting to discredit my case rather than defend yourself speaks volumes, as well.

The bolded part struck me as scummy - it is illogical to fault nkirbit for attacking his case and "speaks volumes" is the kind of dramatization scum use to try to increase the apparent significance of what they are seeing.  TA later said he meant "discredit me", but that is also illogical to attack him for, and is not what nkirbit seemed to be doing.  This kind of scummy argument will always get my vote.  I also think it is unhelpful for town to have these protracted arguments that go around in circles.

Now, this does not mean I find TA the scummiest, and I am not going to argue for a TA lynch today.

I think Xeiron and sudgy are scummier than TA and would vote for either of them.  I agree with Eevee's and nkirbit's assessments of them as seeming to vote without much thought or careful reasoning.  I would like to know why raerae is against a sudgy lynch.

Liopoil could be a lot more active, but I don't currently find him scummy.  If he continues to lurk like this, that may change. 

Mail-mi does seem scummy, but isn't around to claim so that will have to wait for another day.  I think it is strange for Eevee to say that mail-mi's lack of content is so egregious it isn't even scummy.  It's totally scummy, and I wonder if Eevee is looking for an excuse not to vote for mail-mi.

raerae is towny except for her reluctance to take stances.  She promised them closer to deadline - I think we're there now!

While Eevee's backing off of mail-mi seems odd, we haven't really seen enough to know if he is scummy or not, and I don't want to pursue him as a lynch right now.

For the sake of unmuddling the vote counts since I don't want to push a TA lynch today, I'll unvote.  But I have my eye on you TA!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #459 on: June 05, 2013, 04:02:53 pm »

I think "questionsasking raerae = town raerae" is just SUCH an oversimplification. You really think that's something she wouldn't realize to do as scum just as well?

The explanation about reading this thread before VLA thread makes sense, if true.

The main thing was, when she WAS scum, she acted quite a bit different.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #460 on: June 05, 2013, 04:19:31 pm »

I think mail-mi is scummy, just not scummy in the context of analyzing the xeiron-mailmi-sudgy - trio.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #461 on: June 05, 2013, 04:20:43 pm »

I think "questionsasking raerae = town raerae" is just SUCH an oversimplification. You really think that's something she wouldn't realize to do as scum just as well?

The explanation about reading this thread before VLA thread makes sense, if true.

The main thing was, when she WAS scum, she acted quite a bit different.

Sorry, I just don't see the difference between raerae here and raerae in bankers day 1.  After she was subbed in, she was active from what I'm reading.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #462 on: June 05, 2013, 04:25:40 pm »

I agree, but I don't claim to be able read raerae very well at all. She always seems the same to me.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #463 on: June 05, 2013, 04:29:41 pm »

Okay!  Here's my re-reading of raerae.

She starts off the early game by asking players specific questions about things they have posted.  I like this, and think it's a good way to get information.  This caused me to have a townread on her.  Going back and re-reading, it is worth noting that a decent amount of questions were never going anywhere.  It is somewhat assuming that she questions TA's definition of active contributor when he called me one, considering what happened.

She votes Lio when he ignores her questions, and follows the vote up by asking myself and EFHW our opinions of Lio's ignoring her questions.  She continues to put fairly heavy pressure on him, but her entire reason for the pressure is Lio missing some questions.

I find it extremely odd that she initially shared no opinion of myself and TA voting for each other, had no questions, anything of that sort.  It's clearly been the biggest event of the day, yet she didn't comment on it until she was explicitly asked to by me, at which point she said she wasn't convinced with either.  Everyone else that she's had issues with, she's immediately hit with a question.  If TA and my cases were both bad, why weren't they hit by questions?  I don't know.  In fact, here she says:

Raerae, what do you think of TA's case and my case?  You haven't commented on either.

I'm not sold on either of them.  Your vote on him did feel like an OMGUS (oh my god you're stupid) vote.  What interests me is your rather loud reaction to two votes and a single case on you.


Fair enough.  But if it interested you so much, why didn't you ask me about it?  That seems to be how you react to every other situation that's interested you.

She states that she thinks TA vs nkirbit is townvstown based on the lack of responses.

Recently, she said her vote was on Sudgy, but she'd be okay with EFHW or Xeiron.  What happened to Lio?  Did I miss a reason why you're not suspicious anymore?

I honestly have no idea what to make of this.  I do think it's odd that she didn't probe into the TA vs nkirbit issue, and isn't suspicious of Lio any more and hasn't said why, but I have no idea if that makes her scummy or not.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #464 on: June 05, 2013, 04:35:11 pm »

Also:  Both raerae and EFHW aren't going to be back until 8pm.  TA is about to get on an airplane and come home, but there's certainly going to be bad traffic in the area, and I'm not sure when he's getting back.

Should we consider moving the deadline back an hour or so to leave more room for discussion?  Or leave it where it is?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #465 on: June 05, 2013, 04:35:54 pm »

Or never mind.  Leave it where it is.  If we're an hour late, we're an hour late.. moving it back won't help that.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #466 on: June 05, 2013, 04:37:57 pm »

wow, lotsa posts, I'm here, will catch up and look at mail-mi. On raerae, I agree she played differently than normal in bankers but this isn't like that, this is more like what I remember from DS9 and another dinner party. As such I lean town on her.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #467 on: June 05, 2013, 04:38:09 pm »

nkirbit, your thoughts on sudgy and xeiron?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #468 on: June 05, 2013, 04:40:24 pm »

Lio,xeiron, efhw, were your votes made because of pressure by myself and nkirbit or because you thought we were most likely to turn up scum?
I thought you were quite likely to flip scum. Since then I've changed my mind.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #469 on: June 05, 2013, 05:02:46 pm »

On Sudgy:

He feels scummy to me.  Posts like these are so sheepy, and that comes off as suspicious.
Vote: nkirbit

I agree with TA's case, and I feel like he has been over-defending.

I think his jumping between voting me, then eevee, then back to mail-mi, then back to me in so few posts was odd.  His read on raerae is odd to me since I've read day one of bankers after raerae about 5 times since sudgy posted that and I just don't see any way whatsoever that raerae was lurking day1 of that game.  Maybe it happened later, but I don't think we should be comparing day3 of another game to day1 here.. they're just so different.

But, I had these same feelings about Sudgy in another game, and he was town.  So I'm uneasy about voting him.  He does look scummy, but I don't particularly trust my ability to read him.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #470 on: June 05, 2013, 05:07:09 pm »

I'm fine with being sheepy to an extent (as some people just are like that), but taking a scummy position in a sheepy way is what makes it suspicious to me.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #471 on: June 05, 2013, 05:09:09 pm »

Which scummy position are you referring to?

I'm going to be back in about an hour or so, hopefully.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #472 on: June 05, 2013, 05:10:32 pm »

Mail-mi:

13 posts, totally absent for a while now on V/LA.

He's the first to bring up lovers. Doesn't say much when he is here. misses raerae's questions just like me.

ugh, we probably shouldn't lynch him. But man, being totally gone for however long... a week? is really bad...

And ugh, I don't know who to lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #473 on: June 05, 2013, 05:14:30 pm »

The one you just quoted. The way I see it, here are the possible reactions to the nkirbit-twistedarcher argument, from towniest to scummiest.

"seems like town on town"

"nkirbit is right, vote: ta"

"ta is right, vote: nkirbit"


And the more time someone takes before commiting to any of these three, the scummier he is (I could see scum waiting to see which side will "win" before choosing their opinion).
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #474 on: June 05, 2013, 05:23:00 pm »

you could also say: "obv. scumteam, I'll lynch whichever." That one I think is the most anti-town but it would really depend on wording.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #475 on: June 05, 2013, 05:26:33 pm »

...to determine whether it's scummy or not, that is.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #476 on: June 05, 2013, 06:08:25 pm »

Lio,xeiron, efhw, were your votes made because of pressure by myself and nkirbit or because you thought we were most likely to turn up scum?
I thought you were quite likely to flip scum. Since then I've changed my mind.

When and why did you change your mind?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #477 on: June 05, 2013, 06:09:56 pm »

The one you just quoted. The way I see it, here are the possible reactions to the nkirbit-twistedarcher argument, from towniest to scummiest.

"seems like town on town"

"nkirbit is right, vote: ta"

"ta is right, vote: nkirbit"


And the more time someone takes before commiting to any of these three, the scummier he is (I could see scum waiting to see which side will "win" before choosing their opinion).

The only person who waited was efhw. Everyone else voted immediately.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #478 on: June 05, 2013, 06:12:04 pm »

unvote no one is going to lynch nkirbit, so ill table it for today and move on.

Nkirbot you said you are unsure on raerae but what's your guy feeling on her? Do you find it as odd as I do that she didn't want to get involved or look at anyone who voted based on our cases?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #479 on: June 05, 2013, 06:15:37 pm »

Then all too late I bring this fatal writ,
The complot of this timeless tragedy;
And wonder greatly that man's face can fold
In pleasing smiles such murderous tyranny.


Vote Count Act I.XVI:


liopoil (1): nkirbit
nkirbit (1): sudgy
Twistedarcher (1): xeiron
sudgy (1): raerae
xeiron (1): Eevee

Not Voting (4): mail-mi, liopoil, EFHW, Twistedarcher

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Over 7 days have passed.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #480 on: June 05, 2013, 06:24:46 pm »

We're coming down to deadline, so time to solidify my reads.  BTW, I will be around until 5 and then after 8, probably not in between.

TA: I voted for him because of this:

Again, you are finding me scummy for not meeting criteria that you yourself do not meet.  Do you see why I think you're being unfair?
Yes I can, but context matters, also. I'm not talking about number of votes, I'm talking about reads unsupported by votes.

I think the fact that you're attempting to discredit my case rather than defend yourself speaks volumes, as well.

The bolded part struck me as scummy - it is illogical to fault nkirbit for attacking his case and "speaks volumes" is the kind of dramatization scum use to try to increase the apparent significance of what they are seeing.  TA later said he meant "discredit me", but that is also illogical to attack him for, and is not what nkirbit seemed to be doing.  This kind of scummy argument will always get my vote.  I also think it is unhelpful for town to have these protracted arguments that go around in circles.

How is attacking nkirbit for discrediting myself rather than the case ever scummy?

If I call nkirbit out for a lack of proactiveness, but instead of disputing this he says at one point "but you weren't proactive either!" This is not a good reason to dispute the case -- it's still a valid case, he's just trying to make me seem scummy so everyone will disregard the case as coming from a scummy place, and therefore worthless. (Btw he did this so well)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #481 on: June 05, 2013, 06:44:01 pm »

Alright, the soft deadline is coming up, TA was talking about how nkirbit isn't happening, Vote: xeiron.  Hurry up people, an hour and 20 minutes left.

(Also, I can't guarantee me being on here at the exact moment of the soft deadline, I'll try to come on as much as I can)
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #482 on: June 05, 2013, 06:46:56 pm »

Not to make this town on town on town but TA, I think it is fair of nkirbit to say "well, if you think that is so scummy, why does it only apply to me?". Like it makes your case a lot less convincing if you are blaming him of something pretty much everyone does?
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #483 on: June 05, 2013, 06:50:14 pm »

Seems like a twisted lynch wont happend either.
vote: Sudgy
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sudgy

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #484 on: June 05, 2013, 06:52:04 pm »

Seems like a twisted lynch wont happend either.
vote: Sudgy

Ummm...  Why are you voting me?  The last thing you've been saying is agreeing with some of MY posts (and others, but this is what I'm stressing), and voting TA.  You never say anything about me.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #485 on: June 05, 2013, 07:42:07 pm »

I'm back.  Going to catch up with what I missed.  I'll be here through the deadline.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #486 on: June 05, 2013, 07:42:26 pm »

Not to make this town on town on town but TA, I think it is fair of nkirbit to say "well, if you think that is so scummy, why does it only apply to me?". Like it makes your case a lot less convincing if you are blaming him of something pretty much everyone does?

I think it applies much more to Nkirbit than to anyone else, and I've stated why. But we can focus on this D2 if we're both still around
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #487 on: June 05, 2013, 07:43:25 pm »

Seems like a twisted lynch wont happend either.
vote: Sudgy

Ummm...  Why are you voting me?  The last thing you've been saying is agreeing with some of MY posts (and others, but this is what I'm stressing), and voting TA.  You never say anything about me.
Thats the thing about lurking. I never said much about anyone...

First, agreing to some of your posts does not make me sure you are town. Scum make good post as well.


The reason I am voting for you is mostly setup speculation. I find it highly likely that at least one of you, TwistedArcher and eevee are scum. I have a town-read on eevee, so I will not vote for him. I would still lynch Twisted if anyone would support me. If not, it has to be you.
I will not elaborate on this topic before a massclaim.

Several people have mentioned scumreads on you, which means there might be more potential for a lyncy that there is on twisted.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #488 on: June 05, 2013, 07:46:31 pm »

So, I think the candidates in my eyes are Sudgy, Lio, and Xeiron.

Xeiron: Been lurker-ish. Sheeped Nkirbit's case on me for what I felt were the wrong reasons, as he didn't even understand my case, I felt. Nothing else that I remember off the top of my head..

Sudgy: Sheeped my case on Nkirbit. Moved his votes around recently to and from the lurkers, claiming it was for "pressure", which really didn't make sense.

Liopoil: Didn't answer questions earlier. Voted me for my case, but his reasons matched Sudgy's case, not mine. Had a bandwagon on him that might have been scum-driven, but I don't think so.

Ugh, I'd rather not lynch Sudgy, as I felt his case was actually less sheepier than Xeiron's -- but as some people have said, town Sudgy DOES sheep without reasons.

I have a hard time picking out which of the three I want to lynch. Lio the most probably, since the oddest thing in my eyes was him voting me for the wrong reasons, getting called out on it immediately, but not changing his vote immediately -- but he's not THAT much scummier than Xeiron in my eyes.

Vote: Liopoil
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #489 on: June 05, 2013, 07:47:33 pm »

Seems like a twisted lynch wont happend either.
vote: Sudgy

Ummm...  Why are you voting me?  The last thing you've been saying is agreeing with some of MY posts (and others, but this is what I'm stressing), and voting TA.  You never say anything about me.
Thats the thing about lurking. I never said much about anyone...

First, agreing to some of your posts does not make me sure you are town. Scum make good post as well.


The reason I am voting for you is mostly setup speculation. I find it highly likely that at least one of you, TwistedArcher and eevee are scum. I have a town-read on eevee, so I will not vote for him. I would still lynch Twisted if anyone would support me. If not, it has to be you.
I will not elaborate on this topic before a massclaim.

Several people have mentioned scumreads on you, which means there might be more potential for a lyncy that there is on twisted.

What? I know you said don't elaborate but I don't get this. Are you claiming to have some knowledge of why Sudgy might be scum? (just answer yes/no)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #490 on: June 05, 2013, 07:47:39 pm »

The reason I am voting for you is mostly setup speculation. I find it highly likely that at least one of you, TwistedArcher and eevee are scum. I have a town-read on eevee, so I will not vote for him. I would still lynch Twisted if anyone would support me. If not, it has to be you.
I will not elaborate on this topic before a massclaim.
Not elaborating is ofc fine, but man, Xeiron, that was HUGE. Can you at least say how sure you are?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #491 on: June 05, 2013, 07:48:01 pm »

The one you just quoted. The way I see it, here are the possible reactions to the nkirbit-twistedarcher argument, from towniest to scummiest.

"seems like town on town"

"nkirbit is right, vote: ta"

"ta is right, vote: nkirbit"


And the more time someone takes before commiting to any of these three, the scummier he is (I could see scum waiting to see which side will "win" before choosing their opinion).

The only person who waited was efhw. Everyone else voted immediately.

And raerae, who declined to comment and talked about other options until she was specifically asked.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #492 on: June 05, 2013, 07:48:49 pm »

Vote Count Act I.XVII:

liopoil (2): nkirbit, Twistedarcher
sudgy (2): raerae, xeiron
xeiron (2): Eevee, sudgy

Not Voting (3): mail-mi, liopoil, EFHW

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #493 on: June 05, 2013, 07:52:16 pm »

The reason I am voting for you is mostly setup speculation. I find it highly likely that at least one of you, TwistedArcher and eevee are scum. I have a town-read on eevee, so I will not vote for him. I would still lynch Twisted if anyone would support me. If not, it has to be you.
I will not elaborate on this topic before a massclaim.
Not elaborating is ofc fine, but man, Xeiron, that was HUGE. Can you at least say how sure you are?

Okay, like, I don't get this. I went through and couldn't find a single thing in thread that would link myself and Eevee, and Sudgy. Which means this is PM based. And I don't possibly get this. If you don't want to elaborate because it would hurt town, fine, but I'm not going to put any credit into this.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #494 on: June 05, 2013, 07:53:18 pm »

The other thing, Xeiron:  If you're sure that one of Eevee, TA, and Sudgy are scum, and your top scumread is TA, I don't think you should be looking to lynch Sudgy or Eevee.

If they knew your information to be true, that would be a good reason for Eevee or TA to support a Sudgy lynch.  But keep in mind:  By revealing this information, you're going to allow your top scumread to wagon onto a lesser scumread.  That seems dangerous.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #495 on: June 05, 2013, 07:54:31 pm »

Xeiron, is it pm-based or not?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #496 on: June 05, 2013, 07:54:47 pm »

Basically, I'm not going to believe you at all until you elaborate.  I have no reason to.
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #497 on: June 05, 2013, 07:55:34 pm »

The reason I am voting for you is mostly setup speculation. I find it highly likely that at least one of you, TwistedArcher and eevee are scum. I have a town-read on eevee, so I will not vote for him. I would still lynch Twisted if anyone would support me. If not, it has to be you.
I will not elaborate on this topic before a massclaim.
Not elaborating is ofc fine, but man, Xeiron, that was HUGE. Can you at least say how sure you are?

Not very sure yet, a night or two would help,
But so sure that i put this over whatever D1 cases that have been made.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #498 on: June 05, 2013, 07:56:41 pm »


The reason I am voting for you is mostly setup speculation. I find it highly likely that at least one of you, TwistedArcher and eevee are scum. I have a town-read on eevee, so I will not vote for him. I would still lynch Twisted if anyone would support me. If not, it has to be you.
I will not elaborate on this topic before a massclaim.

This makes it seem like it's a suspicion, but not that it's confirmed. He doesn't KNOW it -- he finds it highly likely.

Ugh I don't want to get into rolefishing, and Xeiron do what you think is best for town. But...I'm not buying it right now.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #499 on: June 05, 2013, 07:57:40 pm »

The reason I am voting for you is mostly setup speculation. I find it highly likely that at least one of you, TwistedArcher and eevee are scum. I have a town-read on eevee, so I will not vote for him. I would still lynch Twisted if anyone would support me. If not, it has to be you.
I will not elaborate on this topic before a massclaim.
Not elaborating is ofc fine, but man, Xeiron, that was HUGE. Can you at least say how sure you are?

Not very sure yet, a night or two would help,
But so sure that i put this over whatever D1 cases that have been made.

Well...give me a night or two, and I'm sure I could pick out a group of 3 where at least 1 person is scum, too :P So I don't know how useful this is.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #500 on: June 05, 2013, 07:59:15 pm »

Eevee, does this make you want to unvote Xeiron at all?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #501 on: June 05, 2013, 07:59:37 pm »

Yeah xeiron, you need to commit to it more if you want it to matter at all. Saying "one of these three probably is scum but I'm not sure" is just such an advantageous lie for scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #502 on: June 05, 2013, 08:00:19 pm »

Eevee, does this make you want to unvote Xeiron at all?
I don't want to coach him on how to proceed here if he is scum.
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sudgy

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #503 on: June 05, 2013, 08:02:28 pm »


The reason I am voting for you is mostly setup speculation. I find it highly likely that at least one of you, TwistedArcher and eevee are scum. I have a town-read on eevee, so I will not vote for him. I would still lynch Twisted if anyone would support me. If not, it has to be you.
I will not elaborate on this topic before a massclaim.

How does setup speculation lead you to thinking one of us three is scum?!?  I don't see ANYTHING related between the two.

Quote
Several people have mentioned scumreads on you, which means there might be more potential for a lyncy that there is on twisted.

"Oh, TA isn't getting lynched.  Let's try to find another lynch that people have said they're interested in to get a mislynch going without getting suspected!"

This drastically increases your scuminess in my eyes.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #504 on: June 05, 2013, 08:04:47 pm »

The reason I am voting for you is mostly setup speculation. I find it highly likely that at least one of you, TwistedArcher and eevee are scum. I have a town-read on eevee, so I will not vote for him. I would still lynch Twisted if anyone would support me. If not, it has to be you.
I will not elaborate on this topic before a massclaim.
Not elaborating is ofc fine, but man, Xeiron, that was HUGE. Can you at least say how sure you are?

Not very sure yet, a night or two would help,
But so sure that i put this over whatever D1 cases that have been made.

Well...give me a night or two, and I'm sure I could pick out a group of 3 where at least 1 person is scum, too :P So I don't know how useful this is.

I hope to know a bit more than that.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #505 on: June 05, 2013, 08:05:40 pm »

Xeiron, this got asked by Eevee:

Is this PM-based, or thread-based?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #506 on: June 05, 2013, 08:05:45 pm »

I think going after the "popular easy lynch" is actually a very wrong way to go about it.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #507 on: June 05, 2013, 08:06:19 pm »

On Xeiron:

His first real interaction this game was voting for TA.  That's remarkable.  He thinks that TA is wrong that I'm discrediting him instead of his case (which I agree with, btw.), and thinks that TA is manufacturing his case, but doesn't get any more specific than that.

I'm a little uncomfortable with people jumping on to the wagon here.  I think I did a good job defending myself from TA, but when I accused him of being scum, my case was certainly helped by some creative thought.  I had a good reason to look at TA, but come on, that case on him was a stretch.  He made a good point about me being a bad target if he were scum.  There are a couple of leaps of faith required to get where I got.

I don't like his switching to Sudgy.  Even if his guess is correct, and he's not that sure, it's bizarre that he would want to go after Sudgy given that TA is his highest scum read.  If you know 1 out of 3 are scum, and your highest scumread is in that group, there's no way I'm voting for someone else.

I think that if Xeiron wasn't willing to claim, he shouldn't have come forward with information.  Half-claiming is extremely weak.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #508 on: June 05, 2013, 08:06:34 pm »

I think going after the "popular easy lynch" is actually a very wrong way to go about it.

For town or for scum? Is this an answer to Sudgy's post?
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sudgy

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #509 on: June 05, 2013, 08:06:40 pm »

We have 25 minutes until the soft deadline.  I will vote (tomorrow) anybody who isn't voting by 8:30 who is on here.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #510 on: June 05, 2013, 08:07:54 pm »

Xeiron, this got asked by Eevee:

Is this PM-based, or thread-based?

Both, mainly pm.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #511 on: June 05, 2013, 08:08:03 pm »

We have 25 minutes until the soft deadline.  I will vote (tomorrow) anybody who isn't voting by 8:30 who is on here.

NO!  Vote who you think is scum!  The time for voting inactive players is passed... we'll worry about that early day two.

We need a lynch as soon as possible, and the longer your vote is parked on inactive players, the longer this will take.

Please stop focusing on players who aren't here (mostly just mail-mi at this point, right?)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #512 on: June 05, 2013, 08:08:23 pm »

I think going after the "popular easy lynch" is actually a very wrong way to go about it.

For town or for scum? Is this an answer to Sudgy's post?
Oh, for town. In that the easy lynches tend to hit town. Optimally you see something others didn't, point it out and convince all the town to join you. Like, all the townies should work really hard to get their #1 preferred lynch through.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #513 on: June 05, 2013, 08:08:43 pm »

The one you just quoted. The way I see it, here are the possible reactions to the nkirbit-twistedarcher argument, from towniest to scummiest.

"seems like town on town"

"nkirbit is right, vote: ta"

"ta is right, vote: nkirbit"


And the more time someone takes before commiting to any of these three, the scummier he is (I could see scum waiting to see which side will "win" before choosing their opinion).

The only person who waited was efhw. Everyone else voted immediately.
And since there was one vote on each of you, it wasn't because I was waiting to see who would win.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #514 on: June 05, 2013, 08:08:56 pm »

Sudgy,
I agree with what you're saying in principle, but in practice, I'd rather do an informed lynch, after I figure out what Xeiron has to say, in a couple hours than a less informed one now. I'd focus instead on if the people online are trying to move towards a lynch -- which is seems like everyone on is -- rather than a black/white policy there.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #515 on: June 05, 2013, 08:09:07 pm »

Hi, I'm here. I too am very curious about what xeiron knows.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #516 on: June 05, 2013, 08:09:10 pm »

We have 25 minutes until the soft deadline.  I will vote (tomorrow) anybody who isn't voting by 8:30 who is on here.

NO!  Vote who you think is scum!  The time for voting inactive players is passed... we'll worry about that early day two.

We need a lynch as soon as possible, and the longer your vote is parked on inactive players, the longer this will take.

Please stop focusing on players who aren't here (mostly just mail-mi at this point, right?)

That's why I said "tomorrow".
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #517 on: June 05, 2013, 08:09:14 pm »

I think it's pretty clearly either sudgy or Xeiron today. Anyone disagree?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #518 on: June 05, 2013, 08:09:44 pm »

The one you just quoted. The way I see it, here are the possible reactions to the nkirbit-twistedarcher argument, from towniest to scummiest.

"seems like town on town"

"nkirbit is right, vote: ta"

"ta is right, vote: nkirbit"


And the more time someone takes before commiting to any of these three, the scummier he is (I could see scum waiting to see which side will "win" before choosing their opinion).

The only person who waited was efhw. Everyone else voted immediately.
And since there was one vote on each of you, it wasn't because I was waiting to see who would win.

Oh I wasn't saying it was, it was just an observation.

What do you think on Xeiron / Sudgy? And on Xeiron's claim
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #519 on: June 05, 2013, 08:10:49 pm »

I think going after the "popular easy lynch" is actually a very wrong way to go about it.

For town or for scum? Is this an answer to Sudgy's post?
Oh, for town. In that the easy lynches tend to hit town. Optimally you see something others didn't, point it out and convince all the town to join you. Like, all the townies should work really hard to get their #1 preferred lynch through.

Man, this is exactly the opposite of what I did in my last game, and you're 100% right.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #520 on: June 05, 2013, 08:11:18 pm »

I think going after the "popular easy lynch" is actually a very wrong way to go about it.

For town or for scum? Is this an answer to Sudgy's post?
Oh, for town. In that the easy lynches tend to hit town. Optimally you see something others didn't, point it out and convince all the town to join you. Like, all the townies should work really hard to get their #1 preferred lynch through.

Hey, I tried!!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #521 on: June 05, 2013, 08:11:37 pm »

I think it's pretty clearly either sudgy or Xeiron today. Anyone disagree?

Lio is still on two votes.  I'd rather lynch Lio than Xeiron.  I would also consider raerae.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #522 on: June 05, 2013, 08:11:55 pm »

I would make a case on xeiron, but that's hard to do as he has barely any posts.

We should lynch him because he has been very lurky, and the few things he has done haven't been much.  And his half-claiming thing was very strange.

Xeiron, at this stage, claiming something very believable will be the only way for me to unvote you.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #523 on: June 05, 2013, 08:12:08 pm »

We have 25 minutes until the soft deadline.  I will vote (tomorrow) anybody who isn't voting by 8:30 who is on here.

This is the reason I am trying the popular easy lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #524 on: June 05, 2013, 08:13:06 pm »

On Xeiron:

His first real interaction this game was voting for TA.  That's remarkable.  He thinks that TA is wrong that I'm discrediting him instead of his case (which I agree with, btw.), and thinks that TA is manufacturing his case, but doesn't get any more specific than that.

I'm a little uncomfortable with people jumping on to the wagon here.  I think I did a good job defending myself from TA, but when I accused him of being scum, my case was certainly helped by some creative thought.  I had a good reason to look at TA, but come on, that case on him was a stretch.  He made a good point about me being a bad target if he were scum.  There are a couple of leaps of faith required to get where I got.

I don't like his switching to Sudgy.  Even if his guess is correct, and he's not that sure, it's bizarre that he would want to go after Sudgy given that TA is his highest scum read.  If you know 1 out of 3 are scum, and your highest scumread is in that group, there's no way I'm voting for someone else.

I think that if Xeiron wasn't willing to claim, he shouldn't have come forward with information.  Half-claiming is extremely weak.

Agree. Half claiming is extremely weak, especially when it's RMM -- we knew he had a power role already if he's town!

The claim seemed less to be saving himself and more on pushing another lynch through. I think that's slightly more likely to come from scum..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #525 on: June 05, 2013, 08:14:02 pm »

We have 25 minutes until the soft deadline.  I will vote (tomorrow) anybody who isn't voting by 8:30 who is on here.

This is the reason I am trying the popular easy lynch.

Elaborate, please? Because you think Sudgy's scummy for this? What do you mean?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #526 on: June 05, 2013, 08:15:24 pm »

I think it's pretty clearly either sudgy or Xeiron today. Anyone disagree?

Lio is still on two votes.  I'd rather lynch Lio than Xeiron.  I would also consider raerae.

What about Xeiron makes you think he's more likely to be town than scum?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #527 on: June 05, 2013, 08:15:47 pm »

I think it's pretty clearly either sudgy or Xeiron today. Anyone disagree?

Lio is still on two votes.  I'd rather lynch Lio than Xeiron.  I would also consider raerae.

What about Xeiron makes you think he's more likely to be town than scum?
(or at least not one of your top 3 scum reads)
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #528 on: June 05, 2013, 08:16:21 pm »

We have 25 minutes until the soft deadline.  I will vote (tomorrow) anybody who isn't voting by 8:30 who is on here.

This is the reason I am trying the popular easy lynch.

Elaborate, please? Because you think Sudgy's scummy for this? What do you mean?

Bacause we have 20 min to deadline
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #529 on: June 05, 2013, 08:16:53 pm »

We have 25 minutes until the soft deadline.  I will vote (tomorrow) anybody who isn't voting by 8:30 who is on here.

This is the reason I am trying the popular easy lynch.
Saving days isn't really that important. Pretty easy to get a lot of content in fast if people just do it. Like this.



I would make a case on xeiron, but that's hard to do as he has barely any posts.

We should lynch him because he has been very lurky, and the few things he has done haven't been much.  And his half-claiming thing was very strange.

Xeiron, at this stage, claiming something very believable will be the only way for me to unvote you.
Like how scummy is this? "I want to suspect this other guy but I can't find any reasons, please vote for him though".
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #530 on: June 05, 2013, 08:18:07 pm »

Sudgy,
I agree with what you're saying in principle, but in practice, I'd rather do an informed lynch, after I figure out what Xeiron has to say, in a couple hours than a less informed one now. I'd focus instead on if the people online are trying to move towards a lynch -- which is seems like everyone on is -- rather than a black/white policy there.

Agree completely.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #531 on: June 05, 2013, 08:18:35 pm »

I'm not on sudgy? Vote: Sudgy
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #532 on: June 05, 2013, 08:19:47 pm »

Vote Count Act I.XVIII:

liopoil (2): nkirbit, Twistedarcher
sudgy (3): raerae, xeiron, liopoil
xeiron (2): Eevee, sudgy

Not Voting (2): mail-mi, EFHW

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #533 on: June 05, 2013, 08:20:50 pm »

I can't make a case on him because there's barely anything to even talk about.  I summed up a few thoughts on him, of all the posts that were relevant.  If there is somebody who hasn't posted at all, you can't make a case on them other than that they are lurking.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #534 on: June 05, 2013, 08:21:30 pm »

You can explain your reasons for why you think people should join you in that lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #535 on: June 05, 2013, 08:22:05 pm »

You shouldn't ever make votes if you can't convince other people why that particular lynch is the one they should join.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #536 on: June 05, 2013, 08:22:11 pm »

I would make a case on xeiron, but that's hard to do as he has barely any posts.

We should lynch him because he has been very lurky, and the few things he has done haven't been much.  And his half-claiming thing was very strange.

Xeiron, at this stage, claiming something very believable will be the only way for me to unvote you.
Like how scummy is this? "I want to suspect this other guy but I can't find any reasons, please vote for him though".

That was in response to this, of course.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #537 on: June 05, 2013, 08:22:23 pm »

Agree. Half claiming is extremely weak, especially when it's RMM -- we knew he had a power role already if he's town!

True, halfclaiming is weak, but i do not want to fully claim in order to not reveal information that should not be revealed yet.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #538 on: June 05, 2013, 08:22:33 pm »

I can't make a case on him because there's barely anything to even talk about.  I summed up a few thoughts on him, of all the posts that were relevant.  If there is somebody who hasn't posted at all, you can't make a case on them other than that they are lurking.

He's been lurking.
He sheeped nkirbit's case on TA, calling TA's case bogus, without knowing TA's case. He then didn't respond when TA called him out on this.
He just made a really weird soft-claim.
He's trying to push a Sudgy lynch because the deadline's in 20 minutes, before all the evidence gets out there.

See! I just made a better case than you did in 1 minute without going back to look at anything!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #539 on: June 05, 2013, 08:23:34 pm »

Xeiron is getting scummier the longer this goes on. Definitely has the highest scumminess to post ratio

My computer keyboard just stopped working, so I'm on a much slower phone. Bear with me
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #540 on: June 05, 2013, 08:25:14 pm »

Guys, we have five minutes.  Hurry up, and hopefully lynch xeiron instead of me.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #541 on: June 05, 2013, 08:25:18 pm »

Agree. Half claiming is extremely weak, especially when it's RMM -- we knew he had a power role already if he's town!

True, halfclaiming is weak, but i do not want to fully claim in order to not reveal information that should not be revealed yet.

Then why halfclaim at all? It just seems to me that it was made as another reason to push the lynch towards Sudgy and not yourself, rather than to push town in the right direction.

It's great for lining things up, too -- we mislynch Sudgy, you can fakeclaim D2, and lynch myself or Eevee! It just seems to convenient.

You claimed when it wasn't necessary, not to save your hide, but to direct a lynch towards other players -- that justs seems more like a scum play than a town play to me.

Vote: Xeiron
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #542 on: June 05, 2013, 08:25:34 pm »

I don't think half-claiming is as scummy as you are all making it out to be. You realize it would have to be a gambit he just made up out of thin air? Wouldn't he invent something more believable?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #543 on: June 05, 2013, 08:25:46 pm »

Guys, we have five minutes.  Hurry up, and hopefully lynch xeiron instead of me.

Soft deadline, it doesn't matter if we lynch exactly at 8:30, we should try to lynch before tomorrow though.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #544 on: June 05, 2013, 08:25:57 pm »

Vote: sudgy
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #545 on: June 05, 2013, 08:26:24 pm »

I'm very confused about what xeiron is saying.

We aren't getting a lynch by the soft deadline, because it's in 5 minutes.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #546 on: June 05, 2013, 08:26:29 pm »

Sudgy too!  If I hadn't just mislynched sudgy, that's where my vote would be. But I'm so anxious about voting him
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #547 on: June 05, 2013, 08:27:02 pm »

I'm ready to vote Sudgy.  I find him scummier than xeiron.  That would be L-1.  Should I hold off?

PPE: I see Eevee has put him at L-1.  I will wait so sudgy can claim.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #548 on: June 05, 2013, 08:27:18 pm »

Sudgy is going to flip town, I think.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #549 on: June 05, 2013, 08:27:24 pm »

2 on X, 1 on me, 4 on sudgy by my count. That's L-1.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #550 on: June 05, 2013, 08:27:58 pm »

No one vote until we hear from him!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #551 on: June 05, 2013, 08:28:14 pm »

Sudgy is going to flip town, I think.
Of course that's more likely, because ~7 out of us 9 are town!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #552 on: June 05, 2013, 08:28:44 pm »

Sudgy is going to flip town, I think.
I think Xeiron is town.

EHFW is actually my top suspect for flipping scum, but it's sort of late to start building a late from a scratch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #553 on: June 05, 2013, 08:29:05 pm »

Slow down. Soft deadline is in 2 minutes. Not gonna happen. let's get a lynch before this time tommorow.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #554 on: June 05, 2013, 08:29:45 pm »

The deadline is SOFT.  The world won't end if we lynch at 9:30 instead.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #555 on: June 05, 2013, 08:30:10 pm »

well, actually, we lose 2 bankable days if we do that, but ahh well.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #556 on: June 05, 2013, 08:30:15 pm »

Sudgy is going to flip town, I think.
I think Xeiron is town.

EHFW is actually my top suspect for flipping scum, but it's sort of late to start building a late from a scratch.

Why didn't you mention this before?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #557 on: June 05, 2013, 08:30:48 pm »

Why would a town make the claim xeiron did?  I can't think of a good reason. Can anyone else?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #558 on: June 05, 2013, 08:30:59 pm »

Only person we're missing is Raerae, right? Mail-mi's not gonna be around. Myself, Eevee, Nkirbit, Lio, EFHW, Sudgy, Xeiron are all here.

We should definitely blitz this out tonight -- if not by 8:30 thats fine, but tonight.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #559 on: June 05, 2013, 08:31:23 pm »

well, actually, we lose 2 bankable days if we do that, but ahh well.
Oh, I didn't realize it was that precise.  Guess we should have set a soft deadline for the soft deadline ...
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #560 on: June 05, 2013, 08:31:58 pm »

Why would a town make the claim xeiron did?  I can't think of a good reason. Can anyone else?

I am struggling to see it. If he really what he says he is, wouldn't he have made the same claim when I was under pressure and he was voting for me? His preferred lynch target?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #561 on: June 05, 2013, 08:33:04 pm »

Or that should be at xeiron:  if you weren't willing to claim, and TA is your top scum read, why did you say what you did?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #562 on: June 05, 2013, 08:33:15 pm »

Why would a town make the claim xeiron did?  I can't think of a good reason. Can anyone else?

To explain why i voted sudgy, so it would not stand as an pure OMGUS vote.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #563 on: June 05, 2013, 08:33:40 pm »

For someone so insistent on getting this done by 8:30, Sudgy really just disappeared -- unless he's writing up a long claim post.

If someone is going to lynch post-claim, please let him post his reads first, ok? We don't want a quick lock before we can get his reads.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #564 on: June 05, 2013, 08:33:59 pm »

Why would a town make the claim xeiron did?  I can't think of a good reason. Can anyone else?

I am struggling to see it. If he really what he says he is, wouldn't he have made the same claim when I was under pressure and he was voting for me? His preferred lynch target?
What? If he has good reason to think that's true, why shouldn't he make that claim?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #565 on: June 05, 2013, 08:34:04 pm »

But why not use it as a reason to vote TA earlier?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #566 on: June 05, 2013, 08:34:40 pm »

Unvote because we have time and L-1 is scary. I'll put my vote back before I leave.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #567 on: June 05, 2013, 08:34:54 pm »

Why would a town make the claim xeiron did?  I can't think of a good reason. Can anyone else?

To explain why i voted sudgy, so it would not stand as an pure OMGUS vote.

Wait, so you're using the claim as justification for the vote, not as a reason for the vote??

It seems like you're more worried about the vote being interpreted incorrectly than the vote nailing scum
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #568 on: June 05, 2013, 08:35:20 pm »

Why would a town make the claim xeiron did?  I can't think of a good reason. Can anyone else?

I am struggling to see it. If he really what he says he is, wouldn't he have made the same claim when I was under pressure and he was voting for me? His preferred lynch target?
What? If he has good reason to think that's true, why shouldn't he make that claim?

Why now and not when TA was under pressure?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #569 on: June 05, 2013, 08:36:01 pm »

Why would a town make the claim xeiron did?  I can't think of a good reason. Can anyone else?

I am struggling to see it. If he really what he says he is, wouldn't he have made the same claim when I was under pressure and he was voting for me? His preferred lynch target?
What? If he has good reason to think that's true, why shouldn't he make that claim?

He claimed that he has good reason to believe that one of myself, Sudgy, or Eevee is scum.

When he soft claimed, he said "Well, TA isn't getting lynched, so let's go to Sudgy. I have good reason to believe one of Sudgy, TA, or Eevee is scum".

Why would this come out on his second top read, and not his top read?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #570 on: June 05, 2013, 08:36:33 pm »

I am Proteus, a Whispering Lover.

I am lovers with either Silvia or Julia (not told their usernames, only flavornames), and I'm not sure which.  Whoever it is, if one of us two dies, the other does as well.

Each night, I may whisper a message of up to 250 characters to someone else.


Slow down. Soft deadline is in 2 minutes. Not gonna happen. let's get a lynch before this time tommorow.

We should shoot for by midnight tonight.



And, sorry guys, I have to get off now for the rest of the night.  :(  Please do not lynch me, and lynch xeiron.


Also, reads are basically (this is very quick) xeiron and nkirbit as scum, raerae as town, and everybody else nul.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #571 on: June 05, 2013, 08:37:08 pm »

Why would a town make the claim xeiron did?  I can't think of a good reason. Can anyone else?

To explain why i voted sudgy, so it would not stand as an pure OMGUS vote.

Wait, so you're using the claim as justification for the vote, not as a reason for the vote??

It seems like you're more worried about the vote being interpreted incorrectly than the vote nailing scum
well, he isn't about to convince anyone otherwise... why would he claim that as scum? Not enough of a motivation. If you're gonna fakeclaim as scum you want more out of it than that.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #572 on: June 05, 2013, 08:38:25 pm »

hmmm, interesting. claim seems genuine, but that's a role he might have as scum.
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Eevee

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #573 on: June 05, 2013, 08:38:32 pm »

Sudgy is going to flip town, I think.
I think Xeiron is town.

EHFW is actually my top suspect for flipping scum, but it's sort of late to start building a late from a scratch.

Why didn't you mention this before?
Because I just thought of it. She fits the "puppetmaster trying to influence the town from the shadows"-scum super well. It's not a case, I'm not trying to get people to vote for EHFW, it's too late and we'd just get distracted discussing the merits for 5 days.

What if xeiron has something in his pm, and is drawing some conclusions that are or are not accurate? I mean, that seems more likely to me than him just deciding to invent something that flimsy out of thin air. If he were to start a lie like that, wouldn't he pick something a little more believable?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #574 on: June 05, 2013, 08:39:12 pm »

Why would a town make the claim xeiron did?  I can't think of a good reason. Can anyone else?

To explain why i voted sudgy, so it would not stand as an pure OMGUS vote.

Wait, so you're using the claim as justification for the vote, not as a reason for the vote??

It seems like you're more worried about the vote being interpreted incorrectly than the vote nailing scum
well, he isn't about to convince anyone otherwise... why would he claim that as scum? Not enough of a motivation. If you're gonna fakeclaim as scum you want more out of it than that.

I dunno. That's lining up 2 mislynches right there if he's scum. It's easy to say "well shoot, it wasn't Sudgy, it's one of the other two", then line up the next person.

I just don't get what benefit it has claiming as town, either.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #575 on: June 05, 2013, 08:39:34 pm »

sudgy, why do you want to get a lynch by midnight tonight when you have to leave?
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #576 on: June 05, 2013, 08:40:28 pm »

I just don't get what benefit it has claiming as town, either.
It's valuable info!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #577 on: June 05, 2013, 08:40:34 pm »

People sometimes make hasty decisions when they have power roles and get excited about them in these games. If I had a nickel for every time I did something like that.. I'd have a couple of nickels.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #578 on: June 05, 2013, 08:40:59 pm »

Claim makes perfect Shakespearean sense...hm. Let me think.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #579 on: June 05, 2013, 08:41:13 pm »

Okay.  So we can just have sudgy whisper someone trustworthy tonight. I would pick eevee.

Are we sure that role is town?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #580 on: June 05, 2013, 08:41:16 pm »

Unvote to process the claim.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #581 on: June 05, 2013, 08:41:36 pm »

Okay.  So we can just have sudgy whisper someone trustworthy tonight. I would pick eevee.

Are we sure that role is town?
It could be a creative scum role, why not?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #582 on: June 05, 2013, 08:42:42 pm »

The people how know their Shakespeare: does it make any sense thematically to be lovers and not know the person you are in love with? Isn't that like very weird?

I think I'm fine with letting sudgy live and having him whisper me.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #583 on: June 05, 2013, 08:43:35 pm »

The main danger is that if we lynch sudgy now and he's telling the truth, we also kill someone else.  BUT, the main benefit is that this is confirmable - if there is a Julia or Sylvia who is lovers with Proteus.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #584 on: June 05, 2013, 08:44:47 pm »

I'm confident sudgy's claim is true. So if we lynch him two people die. Should we have silvia/julia claim? I don't think so. Should we have silvia/julia just say who they are?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #585 on: June 05, 2013, 08:45:15 pm »

Nkirbit, do you think xeiron should claim as well? I don't think we want a sudgy lynch, so that seems like the most logical course of action.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #586 on: June 05, 2013, 08:45:36 pm »

I'm confident sudgy's claim is true. So if we lynch him two people die. Should we have silvia/julia claim? I don't think so. Should we have silvia/julia just say who they are?
I'm thinking absolutely not. Let's just not lynch sudgy and deal with that tomorrow.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #587 on: June 05, 2013, 08:46:09 pm »

From Wikipedia (I just googled the three names): "Meanwhile, Proteus' father has decided that Proteus should travel to Milan and join Valentine. He orders that Proteus must leave the next day, prompting a tearful farewell with Julia, to whom Proteus swears eternal love. The two exchange rings and vows and Proteus promises to return as soon as he can.

In Milan, Proteus finds Valentine in love with the Duke's daughter Silvia. Despite Julia's love, Proteus falls instantly in love with Silvia and vows to win her."
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #588 on: June 05, 2013, 08:46:15 pm »

Generally claiming for lovers is pretty darn terrible. It sucks there is one out, but having multiple people would make it hell for our potential doctor.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #589 on: June 05, 2013, 08:48:08 pm »

Yes, I want xeiron to claim.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #590 on: June 05, 2013, 08:48:18 pm »

what I'm getting from wikipedia:

Proteus is one of the main characters is two gentleman of verona. He is, at different times, in love with Julia and Silvia.

However, looking closer, it's unclear as to if Proteus is actually a hero or a villain. Early on, he is to marry Julia. At the same time, his best friend Valentine is in love with Silvia. Proteus decides to scorn Julia, and connives to take Silvia from his best friend. Quote from a website: "The character of Proteus clearly presents a problem because audiences have a hard time believing (1) that his love can change so drastically in mere seconds and (2) that he will severely betray a true friend in order to win Silvia."

"He begins as a hero, turns into an antihero, and attempts to convert back to a hero when he says to Valentine, Silvia, and Julia “‘Tis true: O heaven, were man but constant, he were perfect. That one error fills him with faults; makes him run through all the sin; Inconstancy falls off, ere it begins. What is in Silvia’s face, but I may spy more fresh in Julia’s, with constant eye?” (5.4.109 114)

In order for The Two Gentlemen of Verona to be successfully performed, audiences must believe in both Proteus the hero and Proteus the antihero.Both are essential to the believability of the character as a whole.

Hmmm. So he could be a town, or a scum character.
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #591 on: June 05, 2013, 08:50:18 pm »

unvote and going to sleep.
I think we can afford one more day before lynching.
I have to think about sudgys claim.
It seems believable at first glance.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #592 on: June 05, 2013, 08:50:55 pm »

of course he can be town or scum, ash wouldn't put characters in who are obviously one alignment or another.

It is possible that this is a fakeclaim provided to him by ashersky.

I do not think xeiron should claim. We're all very curious as to what he knows, but we don't know what his role is or anything. Xeiron should decide for himself whether fullclaiming is a good idea or not, or maybe if claiming a little bit more is a good idea.

PPE: no claim from xeiron today.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #593 on: June 05, 2013, 08:51:40 pm »

We do not want lovers to claim. If the lovers are both town, and scum would know if they were or not, scum would have multiple players to choose to hit two town at once.

The more and more I think about it, it seems like it would be very hard to have two lovers on town. Would make the game difficult if we mislynch than lovers get hit. And if one of these lovers is scum, it'd definitely be proteus
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #594 on: June 05, 2013, 08:51:51 pm »

xeiron please claim before going to sleeps.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #595 on: June 05, 2013, 08:51:55 pm »

unvote and going to sleep.
I think we can afford one more day before lynching.
I have to think about sudgys claim.
It seems believable at first glance.

What?  This is totally scummy.
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Eevee

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #596 on: June 05, 2013, 08:52:39 pm »

Liopoil, I want xeiron to claim because I have intention of lynching him.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #597 on: June 05, 2013, 08:53:28 pm »

The people how know their Shakespeare: does it make any sense thematically to be lovers and not know the person you are in love with? Isn't that like very weird?

I think I'm fine with letting sudgy live and having him whisper me.

It is possible there is both a Sylvia and a Julia character, and only ash knows which of the one is actually proteus' lover
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #598 on: June 05, 2013, 08:54:00 pm »

Maybe xeiron is trying to get lynched?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #599 on: June 05, 2013, 08:55:19 pm »

Could we have a vote count?  I'm on my phone so it's hard to check who's invited or whatever
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #600 on: June 05, 2013, 08:55:51 pm »

of course he can be town or scum, ash wouldn't put characters in who are obviously one alignment or another.

It is possible that this is a fakeclaim provided to him by ashersky.

From the OP:
Quote
3.  All roles, with flavor names, are pre-designed.  That means they do presuppose alignment.  All roles will be assigned randomly.

I think it means that there ARE roles that will clearly indicate scum or town. But I also would think that Ash would give scum fake claims like he did in LOTR.

I kind of agree with Nkirbit's point that two lovers both on town would be tough.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #601 on: June 05, 2013, 08:56:01 pm »

Maybe xeiron is trying to get lynched?
Nah, it's not a bastard game, no way anyone should want to die day 1.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #602 on: June 05, 2013, 08:56:22 pm »

Maybe xeiron is trying to get lynched?

Jester is a BM role, not a RMM role, correct?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #603 on: June 05, 2013, 08:56:33 pm »

I'll do a vote count
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #604 on: June 05, 2013, 08:56:59 pm »

We do not want lovers to claim. If the lovers are both town, and scum would know if they were or not, scum would have multiple players to choose to hit two town at once.

The more and more I think about it, it seems like it would be very hard to have two lovers on town. Would make the game difficult if we mislynch than lovers get hit. And if one of these lovers is scum, it'd definitely be proteus
And it's totally possible that we have more lover-pairs. A town lover-pair could be easily balanced by there also being scum lovers. Just a lover pair with 1 town 1 scum is a big boon for town. That's why xeiron shouldn't claim.
Liopoil, I want xeiron to claim because I have intention of lynching him.
So he'll do that if you can get him to L-1 and intent to hammer.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #605 on: June 05, 2013, 08:58:19 pm »

We do not want lovers to claim. If the lovers are both town, and scum would know if they were or not, scum would have multiple players to choose to hit two town at once.

The more and more I think about it, it seems like it would be very hard to have two lovers on town. Would make the game difficult if we mislynch than lovers get hit. And if one of these lovers is scum, it'd definitely be proteus
And it's totally possible that we have more lover-pairs. A town lover-pair could be easily balanced by there also being scum lovers. Just a lover pair with 1 town 1 scum is a big boon for town. That's why xeiron shouldn't claim.
Liopoil, I want xeiron to claim because I have intention of lynching him.
So he'll do that if you can get him to L-1 and intent to hammer.

Scum lovers seems even more harsh for a 9 person game. It would definitely mean 3 scum, though.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #606 on: June 05, 2013, 08:58:33 pm »

We do not want lovers to claim. If the lovers are both town, and scum would know if they were or not, scum would have multiple players to choose to hit two town at once.

The more and more I think about it, it seems like it would be very hard to have two lovers on town. Would make the game difficult if we mislynch than lovers get hit. And if one of these lovers is scum, it'd definitely be proteus
And it's totally possible that we have more lover-pairs. A town lover-pair could be easily balanced by there also being scum lovers. Just a lover pair with 1 town 1 scum is a big boon for town. That's why xeiron shouldn't claim.

I don't know how you got xeiron shouldn't claim from that first bit
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #607 on: June 05, 2013, 08:58:52 pm »

Maybe xeiron is trying to get lynched?

Jester is a BM role, not a RMM role, correct?
Yes.

Also, I don't think lovers sound harsh for town at all. It's RMM, only two scum in nine is pretty harsh for them. Remember that almost everyone is a VT in the standard setups.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #608 on: June 05, 2013, 09:00:19 pm »

Maybe xeiron is trying to get lynched?

Jester is a BM role, not a RMM role, correct?
Yes.

Also, I don't think lovers sound harsh for town at all. It's RMM, only two scum in nine is pretty harsh for them. Remember that almost everyone is a VT in the standard setups.

That's a good point. Perhaps you're right.

Well xeiron went to bed and I don't want to lynch him before he can claim. Do you want to take this time to make your case on efhw, eevee?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #609 on: June 05, 2013, 09:00:24 pm »

liopoil, look. sudgy isnt getting lynched, how do you propose we continue if you don't want xeiron to claim?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #610 on: June 05, 2013, 09:00:53 pm »

Vote Count Act I.XIX:

liopoil (1): nkirbit
sudgy (1): raerae
xeiron (2): sudgy, Twistedarcher

Not Voting (5): mail-mi, EFHW, liopoil, Eevee, xeiron

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

8 days have passed.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #611 on: June 05, 2013, 09:01:13 pm »

Please correct me if I got any votes wrong.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #612 on: June 05, 2013, 09:01:41 pm »

I'm also not sure why the Lio lynched died so quickly
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #613 on: June 05, 2013, 09:02:05 pm »

Silvia and Julia would DEFINITELY be town.

So either Sudgy is town lover, and we'd lose 2 town, or scum lover, and we'd lose 1 town 1 scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #614 on: June 05, 2013, 09:02:28 pm »

We do not want lovers to claim. If the lovers are both town, and scum would know if they were or not, scum would have multiple players to choose to hit two town at once.

The more and more I think about it, it seems like it would be very hard to have two lovers on town. Would make the game difficult if we mislynch than lovers get hit. And if one of these lovers is scum, it'd definitely be proteus
And it's totally possible that we have more lover-pairs. A town lover-pair could be easily balanced by there also being scum lovers. Just a lover pair with 1 town 1 scum is a big boon for town. That's why xeiron shouldn't claim.
Liopoil, I want xeiron to claim because I have intention of lynching him.
So he'll do that if you can get him to L-1 and intent to hammer.

Scum lovers seems even more harsh for a 9 person game. It would definitely mean 3 scum, though.
No it wouldn't!!! this is a RMM game. There are all sorts of crazy roles out there that can balances this. Xeiron might have all sorts of reasons for not wanting to claim. you just don't know. Don't assume ANYTHING.

Xeiron might be another lover, or some other role that shouldn't be claimed.

 
liopoil, look. sudgy isnt getting lynched, how do you propose we continue if you don't want xeiron to claim?
I propose we find scum! if that's xeiron, so be it.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #615 on: June 05, 2013, 09:02:58 pm »

Silvia and Julia would DEFINITELY be town.

So either Sudgy is town lover, and we'd lose 2 town, or scum lover, and we'd lose 1 town 1 scum.
Or scum fakeclaimer, which is even better.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #616 on: June 05, 2013, 09:03:45 pm »

I'm on mobile already as well, so no. It's mostly just a feeling that she's fanning the flames without putting herself out there, would need to reread her with that thought in mind to be able to say anything more concrete. Just a "where would you expect scum to be here" kind of a thing.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #617 on: June 05, 2013, 09:04:28 pm »

Vote Count Act I.unofficial:

liopoil (1): nkirbit
sudge (1): raerae
xeiron (2): sudgy, TA

Not Voting (5): mail-mi, EFHW, Eevee, xeiron, liopoil
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #618 on: June 05, 2013, 09:06:10 pm »

EHFW, what do you think of this general feeling I have of your play? How do you think we should proceed from here?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #619 on: June 05, 2013, 09:10:25 pm »

Lio, if we're not lynching Sudgy, where do you want to look next? Xeiron?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #620 on: June 05, 2013, 09:11:26 pm »

Sorry, my fingers are all tangled in the puppet strings....

I don't agree with your description of my play.  I'm not sure how to proceed.  Xeiron's going off to bed like that is odd.  I know it's late in Norway, but it really ties our hands.  There are only 5 of us here now.  We would all have to agree to a lynch, which seems very unlikely, so I think we have to wait.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #621 on: June 05, 2013, 09:12:25 pm »

Banked day wise, there's no difference between lynching now and between lynching anywhere before 8:30 tomorrow, right?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #622 on: June 05, 2013, 09:12:30 pm »

I'm not comfortable lynching xeiron without a claim.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #623 on: June 05, 2013, 09:14:11 pm »

I agree. But we also need to make sure we don't run 3 separate people up to make a claim D1. So we should be pretty sure of the next person we want to lynch before asking for a claim.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #624 on: June 05, 2013, 09:14:56 pm »

Banked day wise, there's no difference between lynching now and between lynching anywhere before 8:30 tomorrow, right?
right.

I'm interesting in looking into EFHW and eevee. Maybe xeiron, but I'm not sold on that. People are a bit overeager on him.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #625 on: June 05, 2013, 09:15:55 pm »

I think it's significantly harder for scum to produce believable fakeclaims in rmm, so that's good.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #626 on: June 05, 2013, 09:17:31 pm »

Banked day wise, there's no difference between lynching now and between lynching anywhere before 8:30 tomorrow, right?
right.

I'm interesting in looking into EFHW and eevee. Maybe xeiron, but I'm not sold on that. People are a bit overeager on him.
which people are overeager?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #627 on: June 05, 2013, 09:18:52 pm »

Okay.  So we can just have sudgy whisper someone trustworthy tonight. I would pick eevee.

I'm fine with Eevee being the whisperee, but he's not an IC, people!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #628 on: June 05, 2013, 09:20:28 pm »

It doesn't matter much who he whispers anyways. At best scum could make it a 1-1 trade.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #629 on: June 05, 2013, 09:21:06 pm »

9. This game will have "bankable deadlines."  See http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bankable_deadline.  The rules for calculating deadlines are as follows:
- Day 1 is 14 days long.
- Twice the number of unused days, rounded down, at the end of Day 1 are banked.
- Day 2 and each subsequent day will last for:
-- three "free" days plus all banked days up to a total of 14 days;
-- if more than 11 days are in the bank, the remainder will be saved for future days;
-- all unused "banked days" left over at the end of each Day are returned to the bank.

To clarify, since there has been some discussion on the subject of how I will calculate banked time.

I will take the remaining time, rounded to the nearest hour, and double it.  For example:

A hammer vote is cast 2 days, 4 hours, 22 minutes before the end of the day.  52 hours, doubled, is 104 hours.  104 hours is  is 4 days and 8 hours.  4 days and 8 hours of banked time is available.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #630 on: June 05, 2013, 09:22:26 pm »

It doesn't matter much who he whispers anyways. At best scum could make it a 1-1 trade.

Yes, it does. Suppose we mislynch today, have a nk tonight, have whoever he whispers be scum and have sudgy and his lover lynched tomorrow, and then a nk that night. Game over, right?

We need to figure out who we as a collective group trust the most
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #631 on: June 05, 2013, 09:22:46 pm »

Okay.  So we can just have sudgy whisper someone trustworthy tonight. I would pick eevee.

I'm fine with Eevee being the whisperee, but he's not an IC, people!

I think it should be unannounced and Sudgy's decision alone. And he shouldn't tell us.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #632 on: June 05, 2013, 09:23:41 pm »

Okay.  So we can just have sudgy whisper someone trustworthy tonight. I would pick eevee.

I'm fine with Eevee being the whisperee, but he's not an IC, people!

I'm the only one to suggest eevee, right?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #633 on: June 05, 2013, 09:24:02 pm »

Ok, so the sooner we lynch, the better.

Lio, what are your reservations with the Xeiron lynch?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #634 on: June 05, 2013, 09:24:32 pm »

Okay.  So we can just have sudgy whisper someone trustworthy tonight. I would pick eevee.

I'm fine with Eevee being the whisperee, but he's not an IC, people!

I think it should be unannounced and Sudgy's decision alone. And he shouldn't tell us.

What?  If he's scum, he would just whisper another scum, right?  And we learn nothing
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #635 on: June 05, 2013, 09:25:15 pm »

Sudgy deciding himself and not telling us until tomorrow is the best way I think.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #636 on: June 05, 2013, 09:26:42 pm »

Sudgy deciding himself and not telling us until tomorrow is the best way I think.

Well, if we let sudgy decide, should we have him claim who got the whisper before they say they did?  Or just wait for the person to come forward?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #637 on: June 05, 2013, 09:27:42 pm »

hmm yeah, scum whisperer would be very weird. I don't even know. if we announce the target, that person will be nightkilled. if we don't, there is no way to verify sudgys claim.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #638 on: June 05, 2013, 09:28:18 pm »

Did he know about the Eevee plan?  If he knew and didn't object, then we can pick someone else.  If he was scum and lying and not Eevee's partner, he'd object.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #639 on: June 05, 2013, 09:29:35 pm »

raerae is totally lurking, btw.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #640 on: June 05, 2013, 09:29:46 pm »

No, he said goodnight in the same post he claimed.
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #641 on: June 05, 2013, 09:30:10 pm »

raerae, what is your read on me, now that I'm back posting?

I lean townie but you're a damn fine scum player so I'm not putting all my eggs in that basket.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #642 on: June 05, 2013, 09:31:00 pm »

Okay.  So we can just have sudgy whisper someone trustworthy tonight. I would pick eevee.

I'm fine with Eevee being the whisperee, but he's not an IC, people!

I think it should be unannounced and Sudgy's decision alone. And he shouldn't tell us.

What?  If he's scum, he would just whisper another scum, right?  And we learn nothing

Well, except it ties the two together, if they're both scum.

I think having Sudgy choose N1, then announce D2 before the recipient says anything, it the way to do it. It should not be town-directed, though.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #643 on: June 05, 2013, 09:32:00 pm »

Okay.  So we can just have sudgy whisper someone trustworthy tonight. I would pick eevee.

I'm fine with Eevee being the whisperee, but he's not an IC, people!

I think it should be unannounced and Sudgy's decision alone. And he shouldn't tell us.

What?  If he's scum, he would just whisper another scum, right?  And we learn nothing

Well, except it ties the two together, if they're both scum.

I think having Sudgy choose N1, then announce D2 before the recipient says anything, it the way to do it. It should not be town-directed, though.

Okay.  I would support this plan... I hadn't thought about the announced target being NKed when I said we should choose.
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #644 on: June 05, 2013, 09:33:11 pm »

You called me out initially on post #283.  It's now post #431.  Everyone knows what your case is.  Why haven't you moved on?

Because I think you're scum! But no one else does so I will table it for today I suppose.

Want to lynch: nkirbit
Would lynch: lio xeiron raerae

Would lynch me? Because I don't find merit in your case? Good idea. I guess I should trust you and your reads without question.

I never said that!

I'm suspicious because you are asking questions most of the time, but when I asked you several questions, you avoided the answers. You wouldn't give a list of reads until the end of d1. More suspicious though you were very quick to dismiss people who agreed with either mine or nkirbits case. I think it's some of the most important information we have, and we should be analyzing it rather than dismissing it.

By "avoided" I know you actually mean didn't answer immediately but did answer maybe one or two hours later. 

I never give reads until the end of the day.  I'm not changing that.  Tough cookies.

I will decide what I find most important and what I want to focus on.  You say you've read games with me in them yet you seem to think you can tell me what to do.  Where in the world do you get that idea?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #645 on: June 05, 2013, 09:34:45 pm »

Raerae, you are being uncharacterastically unhelpful in this situation of need for town.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #646 on: June 05, 2013, 09:39:27 pm »

I'm going to go, have an early morning tomorrow.  I'll be back mid-day.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #647 on: June 05, 2013, 09:46:14 pm »

raerae, this IS the end of the day.

Eevee, now that we have time, I'd like to hear your full thing on EFHW.

Don't direct the message. sudgy, don't say who you sent the message to. At the start of D2, whoever got the message should come forward, and sudgy verifies it.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #648 on: June 05, 2013, 09:52:35 pm »

You called me out initially on post #283.  It's now post #431.  Everyone knows what your case is.  Why haven't you moved on?

Because I think you're scum! But no one else does so I will table it for today I suppose.

Want to lynch: nkirbit
Would lynch: lio xeiron raerae

Would lynch me? Because I don't find merit in your case? Good idea. I guess I should trust you and your reads without question.

I never said that!

I'm suspicious because you are asking questions most of the time, but when I asked you several questions, you avoided the answers. You wouldn't give a list of reads until the end of d1. More suspicious though you were very quick to dismiss people who agreed with either mine or nkirbits case. I think it's some of the most important information we have, and we should be analyzing it rather than dismissing it.

By "avoided" I know you actually mean didn't answer immediately but did answer maybe one or two hours later. 

I never give reads until the end of the day.  I'm not changing that.  Tough cookies.

I will decide what I find most important and what I want to focus on.  You say you've read games with me in them yet you seem to think you can tell me what to do.  Where in the world do you get that idea?

Okay. Can you stop trying to scold me, and start helping town?
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #649 on: June 05, 2013, 09:54:17 pm »

Sudgy is going to flip town, I think.
I think Xeiron is town.

EHFW is actually my top suspect for flipping scum, but it's sort of late to start building a late from a scratch.

I could support this, Eevee.  She was semi-active in the beginning and has all but disappeared since then.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #650 on: June 05, 2013, 09:57:21 pm »

EHFW is actually my top suspect for flipping scum
heh, that's a good reason to suspect someone :P
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #651 on: June 05, 2013, 09:58:57 pm »

Okay.  So we can just have sudgy whisper someone trustworthy tonight. I would pick eevee.

Are we sure that role is town?

Why do you have SUCH townread on Eevee that you would choose him to be whispered to over everybody else? 
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #652 on: June 05, 2013, 10:06:39 pm »

raerae is totally lurking reading the 18 f-ing pages we've posted since noon, btw.

FTFY
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #653 on: June 05, 2013, 10:19:08 pm »

Raerae, you are being uncharacterastically unhelpful in this situation of need for town.

Dude, I was getting caught up.  I'm not magic and can come on and immediately post about everything that has been said in the last eight hours. 

TA's omniposting grates on me and just seems scummy but I thought the same thing when I was reading Pirates so I guess that's a little townread on him based off past experience but scumread based on content.

Lio suggesting sudgy keep his whisper friend a secret was super townie.

I still support an EFHW lynch and will gather that together in more than one sentence soon.

kermit seems to be jumping around a lot (HA!) so I'm reading a few scum vibes on him. 

sudgy seems shady but that is similar to town sudgy but that's painfully easy to mimic BUT what makes me UNVOTE is how easy his wagon built (plus the claim but this is a catch up post so the unvote would have come before the claim if I had been reading real-time).

Eevee seems townie but I'm suspicious of the people giving him supertown! status...don't really understand that when the guy wasn't around for most of the day.

X has been fabulously absent so I have zero read on him.

Not a lot to go on with mail-mi being v/la.
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #654 on: June 05, 2013, 11:01:30 pm »

OK, so reread EFHW and forget everything I said.  Her posting hasn't dropped off but the size of her posts has been smaller.  I think she's making reasonable contributions and asking good questions and not being a lemming so mild townread on her.  Damn damn double damn.

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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #655 on: June 05, 2013, 11:14:38 pm »

Is Lio someone you'd support lynching still, Raerae?

(btw, I made that suggestion that you found Lio supertowny for before he did, earlier on the same page. I'm sure he came up with it himself as well but it's also plausible he took it from me, but I doubt it).
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #656 on: June 05, 2013, 11:17:20 pm »

Why do people find Eevee towny?

I haven't seen enough from him to call him scummy or towny one way or the other, really.
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #657 on: June 05, 2013, 11:20:16 pm »

Is Lio someone you'd support lynching still, Raerae?

(btw, I made that suggestion that you found Lio supertowny for before he did, earlier on the same page. I'm sure he came up with it himself as well but it's also plausible he took it from me, but I doubt it).

His stuck out to me, did you combine yours with a larger post or something?  Sorry I missed it.
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #658 on: June 05, 2013, 11:21:08 pm »

Is Lio someone you'd support lynching still, Raerae?

(btw, I made that suggestion that you found Lio supertowny for before he did, earlier on the same page. I'm sure he came up with it himself as well but it's also plausible he took it from me, but I doubt it).

Crap, posted too soon.  I'd need to read lio again but right now, no, I wouldn't consider him for lynch.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #659 on: June 05, 2013, 11:40:41 pm »

Is Lio someone you'd support lynching still, Raerae?

(btw, I made that suggestion that you found Lio supertowny for before he did, earlier on the same page. I'm sure he came up with it himself as well but it's also plausible he took it from me, but I doubt it).

His stuck out to me, did you combine yours with a larger post or something?  Sorry I missed it.

631, Lio's was in 647.

If you don't wanna lynch Lio, and Sudgy's not gonna happen, where are you leaning? Soft deadline's passed right now, and we're not close since the Sudgy wagon fell apart.

Nkirbit and Xeiron are my two leading candidates right now. I'm voting Xeiron since it's been made clear to me that Nkirbit's lynch won't fly.

Any direction you're leaning towards? It seems like you don't have strong scum reads from your previous post
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #660 on: June 05, 2013, 11:46:08 pm »

Is Lio someone you'd support lynching still, Raerae?

(btw, I made that suggestion that you found Lio supertowny for before he did, earlier on the same page. I'm sure he came up with it himself as well but it's also plausible he took it from me, but I doubt it).

His stuck out to me, did you combine yours with a larger post or something?  Sorry I missed it.

631, Lio's was in 647.

If you don't wanna lynch Lio, and Sudgy's not gonna happen, where are you leaning? Soft deadline's passed right now, and we're not close since the Sudgy wagon fell apart.

Nkirbit and Xeiron are my two leading candidates right now. I'm voting Xeiron since it's been made clear to me that Nkirbit's lynch won't fly.

Any direction you're leaning towards? It seems like you don't have strong scum reads from your previous post

Yeah, I'm at a loss.  I'll read lio again tomorrow and you have usurped his towncred.  I suppose kermit is next on my list if I had to had to had to pick right now but there's no ctrl+f behind that so I don't know.  I'm going to bed now and will be back tomorrow evening to read lio and kermit.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #661 on: June 06, 2013, 12:22:38 am »

I'm going to choose someone tonight to whisper to (I won't say who), I'll say it was them that did it, then they will say that they did it.

I think xeiron should be lynched, and I've already said that.  He's been lurking, and his posts have been scummy.  We need to hurry up and get SOME lynch through, each hour we waste wastes time.  (Also, Eevee, I don't like blitzing (especially later in the game), it's more rushed and people don't have as much time to think through things, and it's harder to catch up with)
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

mail-mi

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #662 on: June 06, 2013, 05:03:13 am »

I am sososososo sorry all the Internet is crappy in the hotel and this is the first time I've actually been able to see the forums so sorry I'll catch up when (if) I can.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #663 on: June 06, 2013, 06:20:14 am »

I love blitz for exactly that reason, town is genuine anyways and I think that's much harder to fake for scum.

Great to have mailmi back, waiting for your input.

Raerae, I thought you had already read as you insta-answered when your name was mentioned. Its not my place to tell people how to play, but if everyone refused to give reads until the end of the day, we'd never get anywhere.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #664 on: June 06, 2013, 07:29:04 am »

Eevee, you said you wanted to lynch EFHW. Now that there's a bit of time, can you explain that?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #665 on: June 06, 2013, 07:51:26 am »

Eevee, you said you wanted to lynch EFHW. Now that there's a bit of time, can you explain that?
I actually said I think she is to me likely to be mafia. I fear I wont be able to make a convincing case.

I can maybe look into it late tonight, but wont for sure have computer access for 10 hours.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #666 on: June 06, 2013, 09:55:08 am »

Lio, can you answer this?

Ok, so the sooner we lynch, the better.

Lio, what are your reservations with the Xeiron lynch?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #667 on: June 06, 2013, 10:15:35 am »

Here's a summary of detail since Eevee came back:

Initially, he made Sudgy and Xeiron two of his biggest scum reads. Xeiron was scummy because of the lurker, and then coming in with a scummy opinion on the TA-Nkirbit argument (Eevee's opinion).

We get close to the soft deadline, and Xeiron and Sudgy emerge as the top two candidates. Xeiron soft-claims, and Eevee seems to believe it. Soon afterwards, Eevee makes this post:

Sudgy is going to flip town, I think.
I think Xeiron is town.

EHFW is actually my top suspect for flipping scum, but it's sort of late to start building a late from a scratch.

After Xeiron's soft-claim, but before Sudgy's claim, Eevee believes that Xeiron is town. He also says that our lynch today should be either Xeiron or Sudgy, and no one else.

After Sudgy's claim, Eevee decides that Xeiron should claim as well, and that Sudgy shouldn't be the lynch target.

xeiron please claim before going to sleeps.

Despite his earlier town read, and no information changing on Xeiron (the only thing new was Sudgy's claim), Eevee says he now has intention of lynching Xeiron.

Liopoil, I want xeiron to claim because I have intention of lynching him.


Now, does Sudgy's claim give enough information to switch Xeiron's read? I don't think it should -- if you believed Xeiron's softclaim to be true, and from a towny, before Sudgy's claim, Sudgy's claim shouldn't change anything about that. Yet Eevee went from thinking Xeiron was town to being willing to lynch Xeiron, and wanting Xeiron to claim.

The only defense I can see from Eevee's side is the idea that we NEED a lynch ASAP, and we decided it was going to be Xeiron or Sudgy, and since we shouldn't lynch Sudgy after his claim, we must lynch Xeiron. But is that enough to overturn a town-read on a player (which Eevee had on Xeiron?) I wouldn't ever push the lynch on someone I have a town read on unless it's close to the hard deadline -- even with a soft deadline, I'd be pushing another case (EFHW probably in Eevee's shoes, since he thinks she is most likely to flip scum).

FoS to Eevee for switching from having a town read on Xeiron to being willing to lynch Xeiron and asking for a claim.
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #668 on: June 06, 2013, 10:18:37 am »

I am Proteus, a Whispering Lover.

I am lovers with either Silvia or Julia (not told their usernames, only flavornames), and I'm not sure which.  Whoever it is, if one of us two dies, the other does as well.

Each night, I may whisper a message of up to 250 characters to someone else.

And, sorry guys, I have to get off now for the rest of the night.  :(  Please do not lynch me, and lynch xeiron.

Also, reads are basically (this is very quick) xeiron and nkirbit as scum, raerae as town, and everybody else nul.

I have given his claim some thought.

First thing that comes to my mind is this:

Hey, I've been in several games...

Vote: liopoil for saying something mean!  (ish)

Should we flavor claim?  It hasn't really done much good or bad in the past, so I'm not sure if it should be suggested or not.

Here Sudgy brings up the idea of flavor claiming. This makes sense together with this claim, as he will then find out who he is in love with.
This makes probable that: 1. Sudgy is speaking the truth, or 2. Sudgy had a fakeclaim ready before daystart.

I find this thing about not knowing who you are in love with a little strange, He would have to play blindly if this is true. Not knowing if the next person he lynches will drag him to death.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #669 on: June 06, 2013, 10:49:43 am »

I am Proteus, a Whispering Lover.

I am lovers with either Silvia or Julia (not told their usernames, only flavornames), and I'm not sure which.  Whoever it is, if one of us two dies, the other does as well.

Each night, I may whisper a message of up to 250 characters to someone else.

And, sorry guys, I have to get off now for the rest of the night.  :(  Please do not lynch me, and lynch xeiron.

Also, reads are basically (this is very quick) xeiron and nkirbit as scum, raerae as town, and everybody else nul.

I have given his claim some thought.

First thing that comes to my mind is this:

Hey, I've been in several games...

Vote: liopoil for saying something mean!  (ish)

Should we flavor claim?  It hasn't really done much good or bad in the past, so I'm not sure if it should be suggested or not.

Here Sudgy brings up the idea of flavor claiming. This makes sense together with this claim, as he will then find out who he is in love with.
This makes probable that: 1. Sudgy is speaking the truth, or 2. Sudgy had a fakeclaim ready before daystart.

I find this thing about not knowing who you are in love with a little strange, He would have to play blindly if this is true. Not knowing if the next person he lynches will drag him to death.

I think, if Sudgy had a fakeclaim, it wouldn't be Proteus. From reading the descriptions, Proteus is not the most "towny" character of the play -- I think, if he had a fakeclaim, it would be Valentine from the same play. So that leads me to believe from your point that his Proteus claim was a real one. The unknown lover is weird...but it makes sense within the play. Man, now I want to go and read this play..

It makes sense, too, that town Sudgy would want to know who he's aligned with. So him being in favor of a claim is explainable, as well. That was, he wouldn't have to play quite as blindly
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #670 on: June 06, 2013, 10:56:20 am »

Here's a summary of detail since Eevee came back:

Initially, he made Sudgy and Xeiron two of his biggest scum reads. Xeiron was scummy because of the lurker, and then coming in with a scummy opinion on the TA-Nkirbit argument (Eevee's opinion).

We get close to the soft deadline, and Xeiron and Sudgy emerge as the top two candidates. Xeiron soft-claims, and Eevee seems to believe it. Soon afterwards, Eevee makes this post:

Sudgy is going to flip town, I think.
I think Xeiron is town.

EHFW is actually my top suspect for flipping scum, but it's sort of late to start building a late from a scratch.

After Xeiron's soft-claim, but before Sudgy's claim, Eevee believes that Xeiron is town. He also says that our lynch today should be either Xeiron or Sudgy, and no one else.

After Sudgy's claim, Eevee decides that Xeiron should claim as well, and that Sudgy shouldn't be the lynch target.

xeiron please claim before going to sleeps.

Despite his earlier town read, and no information changing on Xeiron (the only thing new was Sudgy's claim), Eevee says he now has intention of lynching Xeiron.

Liopoil, I want xeiron to claim because I have intention of lynching him.


Now, does Sudgy's claim give enough information to switch Xeiron's read? I don't think it should -- if you believed Xeiron's softclaim to be true, and from a towny, before Sudgy's claim, Sudgy's claim shouldn't change anything about that. Yet Eevee went from thinking Xeiron was town to being willing to lynch Xeiron, and wanting Xeiron to claim.

The only defense I can see from Eevee's side is the idea that we NEED a lynch ASAP, and we decided it was going to be Xeiron or Sudgy, and since we shouldn't lynch Sudgy after his claim, we must lynch Xeiron. But is that enough to overturn a town-read on a player (which Eevee had on Xeiron?) I wouldn't ever push the lynch on someone I have a town read on unless it's close to the hard deadline -- even with a soft deadline, I'd be pushing another case (EFHW probably in Eevee's shoes, since he thinks she is most likely to flip scum).

FoS to Eevee for switching from having a town read on Xeiron to being willing to lynch Xeiron and asking for a claim.

Eevee's behavior makes totally sense if he recognized his own flavor name in sudgy's claim.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #671 on: June 06, 2013, 11:02:27 am »

Keep in mind, ash made 13 roles. It's possible he provided the extras to scum as possible fake claims
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #672 on: June 06, 2013, 11:04:47 am »

I still want to lynch Lio. It was scummy when he brought up efhws history for no reason. It was scummy when he made reads then couldn't explain them. It was scummy when he said we should choose between myself and TA. Why did that lynch die?

Others I would support a lynch of:  xeiron, raerae, mail mi
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #673 on: June 06, 2013, 11:06:35 am »

Raerae, I think eevee is town because of how he was contributing. He came back and was clearly focused on getting a lunch done, putting in effort. In his activity yesterday I saw more research from him than about a third of the players had all game.  He's still not obvtown, but my top town read.

TA does raise a good point, though
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #674 on: June 06, 2013, 11:36:17 am »

I'm going to choose someone tonight to whisper to (I won't say who), I'll say it was them that did it, then they will say that they did it.

I think xeiron should be lynched, and I've already said that.  He's been lurking, and his posts have been scummy.  We need to hurry up and get SOME lynch through, each hour we waste wastes time.  (Also, Eevee, I don't like blitzing (especially later in the game), it's more rushed and people don't have as much time to think through things, and it's harder to catch up with)

The problem you picking someone, and revealing it tomorrow. Is that you could pick your scum-partner and writing them a message in your scum QT, thus "proving" an ability you don't have.
If you want me to trust your demonstration, we would have to publicly pick one to receive your message, and it should not be eevee or TA, as I find those most likely to be scum-partners with you.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #675 on: June 06, 2013, 11:42:03 am »

I'm going to choose someone tonight to whisper to (I won't say who), I'll say it was them that did it, then they will say that they did it.

I think xeiron should be lynched, and I've already said that.  He's been lurking, and his posts have been scummy.  We need to hurry up and get SOME lynch through, each hour we waste wastes time.  (Also, Eevee, I don't like blitzing (especially later in the game), it's more rushed and people don't have as much time to think through things, and it's harder to catch up with)

The problem you picking someone, and revealing it tomorrow. Is that you could pick your scum-partner and writing them a message in your scum QT, thus "proving" an ability you don't have.
If you want me to trust your demonstration, we would have to publicly pick one to receive your message, and it should not be eevee or TA, as I find those most likely to be scum-partners with you.

No, we can't do this.  You're correct in that it prevents him from co-ordinating with his scum partner, but whoever he picks will be a target for NK.  We may have some doctor to stop this problem, but we can't be sure that we do.

There's really no way, if he is scum, to stop another scum from claiming he got the message.  But, if he does do this, and we later figure out either Sudgy or whoever claimed to receive his message is scum, then we will know a lot about the other player.
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sudgy

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #676 on: June 06, 2013, 11:52:25 am »

I've seen several people saying they would be willing to lynch xeiron.  Why are we stalling when we've passed our soft deadline already?  Let's just lynch somebody!
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #677 on: June 06, 2013, 12:00:55 pm »

I've seen several people saying they would be willing to lynch xeiron.  Why are we stalling when we've passed our soft deadline already?  Let's just lynch somebody!

Because we want to get it right.  Getting it right is more important than a few extra hours.

Also, claiming saved yourself.  We want to give Xeiron the chance to claim.  Even more so since he claimed to have information about yourself, TA, and Eevee.  If we do lynch him, we want to make sure he has a chance to give us that information before he can no longer post.

Why are you rushing this so much?  I agree that we do need to hurry up, but "Let's just lynch someone!" is the absolutely wrong attitude to go about it with.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #678 on: June 06, 2013, 12:22:41 pm »

That's why I mentioned xeiron.  If, at this point, you would be okay with lynching xeiron, why not vote for him?  I've seen a lot of people saying they would be okay with lynching him but not following through with it.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #679 on: June 06, 2013, 12:23:12 pm »

I would prefer to lynch Lio.  I don't know what that died so suddenly.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #680 on: June 06, 2013, 12:28:42 pm »

I probably deserve some blame for the lio-lynch dying, and my opposition of that road is diminishing as the day progresses.

My flipflop on Xeiron was because I initially viewed them pretty much equally suspect, first Xeiron's miniclaim tipped it into sudgy, and then sudgy's fullclaim had be back to Xeiron. I thought that we wanted a lynch through yesterday, now that we didn't, I agree we might want to consider other options, such as liopoil and EHFW (maybe even raerae?).

I don't know though, determining from completely new options would require some groundwork which I likely won't be able to get done in a timely fashion. My vla really was problematic, sorry guys..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #681 on: June 06, 2013, 12:34:02 pm »

That's why I mentioned xeiron.  If, at this point, you would be okay with lynching xeiron, why not vote for him?  I've seen a lot of people saying they would be okay with lynching him but not following through with it.

You are probably right that we should try to move towards a lynch again.

I will not lynch anyone else than Sudgy, TA or eevee.

I am not sure yet whether i want to push a Sudgy or TA lynch.
I would prefer not to lynch Eevee. Only if neighter Sudgy or a would be a possibility
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #682 on: June 06, 2013, 12:34:13 pm »

Seems like a twisted lynch wont happend either.
vote: Sudgy

Seems like a twisted lynch wont happend either.
vote: Sudgy

Ummm...  Why are you voting me?  The last thing you've been saying is agreeing with some of MY posts (and others, but this is what I'm stressing), and voting TA.  You never say anything about me.
Thats the thing about lurking. I never said much about anyone...

First, agreing to some of your posts does not make me sure you are town. Scum make good post as well.


The reason I am voting for you is mostly setup speculation. I find it highly likely that at least one of you, TwistedArcher and eevee are scum. I have a town-read on eevee, so I will not vote for him. I would still lynch Twisted if anyone would support me. If not, it has to be you.
I will not elaborate on this topic before a massclaim.

Several people have mentioned scumreads on you, which means there might be more potential for a lyncy that there is on twisted.

So, as Xeiron stated, he had no reason for voting for Sudgy other than the fact that one of Sudgy, Eevee, and TA are scum (by the information he supposedly has).  You wanted TA initially, but there wasn't the support for that, but you went onto Sudgy because the situation seemed to be developing into a decision between Sudgy and yourself.

This is extremely fishy.  Like I said before, if you were truly a scumhunting town, you would share information to make it more believable.  You had independent reasons to think TA was scum, yet you're easily pushed off that vote.  If you had this information, and thought TA was scummy, why did you not bring this forward two days ago or so to give us a chance to push through a TA lynch.  Why did you switch to Sudgy and use this information to justify the switch.  Wouldn't the information justify switching to TA just as easily.

I find it odd that the three players you have information about included both your top scumread and your competition for a lynch.  That's extremely lucky.

All in all, this half-claim is very weak, and I do want you to claim as soon as possible.  To facilitate this, Vote: Xeiron.  If it was my choice, I'd have you claim immediately if you plan to claim.

I still want a Lio lynch most.  But if we're going to get to a point where Xeiron is at L-1, and I think we'll get there, we should do it as quickly as possible.  The hours are ticking away.

I believe this puts Xeiron at L-2.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #683 on: June 06, 2013, 12:52:36 pm »

Nkirbit - I agree on your observations of xeiron's seemingly arbitrary voting. 

I don't get why you are so strong on lio -
I still want to lynch Lio. It was scummy when he brought up efhws history for no reason. It was scummy when he made reads then couldn't explain them. It was scummy when he said we should choose between myself and TA. Why did that lynch die?

Others I would support a lynch of:  xeiron, raerae, mail mi
I don't find any of these things particularly scummy.  His lurking has been the scummiest thing I've seen from him.  Not explaining reads would be scummy except that was so early in the game. 

This is his post voting TA.  I don't see him asking anyone else to choose a side, and he gives reasons for his own decision. 
Vote: TwistedArcher


I read both of their cases, and while nkirbit's case has a bit of an OMGUS tone, I think that TA's case is really weak. Defending yourself isn't scummy. Ever.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #684 on: June 06, 2013, 01:08:47 pm »

Not having reads would have been fine. It was weird I me that he knew enough to sort people into scum town or null, but not enough to explain why

That's not the post I was referring to. I'm on my phone now so I can't bring it up, but there was something about him strongly believing that there was a scum between TA and I. Raerae had asked him about it as well
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #685 on: June 06, 2013, 01:13:16 pm »

I am Proteus, a Whispering Lover.

I am lovers with either Silvia or Julia (not told their usernames, only flavornames), and I'm not sure which.  Whoever it is, if one of us two dies, the other does as well.

Each night, I may whisper a message of up to 250 characters to someone else.

Reasons to lynch Sudgy:
  • He have a scummy flavorclaim. Proteus could be scum.
  • I think his role is weak. Almost as if he was hiding some part of it.
  • His claimed power is possible to fake by using a scum QT

Reasons not to lynch Sudgy:
  • The claim is makes sense (regarding flavour, with him wanting to flavour-claim, etc.)
  • It is strange for scum so claim such a scummy character as Proteus
  • We probably want to lynch a single player over a lover-pair.


There is one thing I just keep wondering about.
If Sudgy speaks the truth.
How does the PM of Silvia and Julia look?
Does they say that they may or may not be in love with proteus?
Does one of them say that they are in love with proteus, while the other do not mention it?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #686 on: June 06, 2013, 01:32:51 pm »

oh, and I felt like I should vote for one of the two, seeing as I think there's a good chance that at least one as scum. I think that perhaps, being brothers, they can read each other better? I know that isn't the case in mcmc-robz, but still.

Then you probably mean this one?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #687 on: June 06, 2013, 01:33:44 pm »

I would not support a Sudgy lynch.
Did you ever explain this?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #688 on: June 06, 2013, 01:37:55 pm »

I'm going to choose someone tonight to whisper to (I won't say who), I'll say it was them that did it, then they will say that they did it.

I think xeiron should be lynched, and I've already said that.  He's been lurking, and his posts have been scummy.  We need to hurry up and get SOME lynch through, each hour we waste wastes time.  (Also, Eevee, I don't like blitzing (especially later in the game), it's more rushed and people don't have as much time to think through things, and it's harder to catch up with)

The problem you picking someone, and revealing it tomorrow. Is that you could pick your scum-partner and writing them a message in your scum QT, thus "proving" an ability you don't have.
If you want me to trust your demonstration, we would have to publicly pick one to receive your message, and it should not be eevee or TA, as I find those most likely to be scum-partners with you.

No this is wrong.

If scum sudgy wants to tie himself to a second scum then by all means let him do it!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #689 on: June 06, 2013, 01:39:37 pm »

We need to move closer to a lynch we are going in circles. Everyone please make one of these lists.

Want to lynch: nkirbit
Would lynch: lio, xeiron, raerae, eevee
Won't lynch: sudgy, mail-mi, efhw, myself
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #690 on: June 06, 2013, 01:40:29 pm »

Woah ignore that. I was missing a page of posts when I wrote that. We are moving somewhere!

But I guess still make the list
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #691 on: June 06, 2013, 01:43:30 pm »

I have decided on vote: TwistedArcher
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #692 on: June 06, 2013, 01:51:01 pm »

Nkirbit - I agree on your observations of xeiron's seemingly arbitrary voting. 

I don't get why you are so strong on lio -
I still want to lynch Lio. It was scummy when he brought up efhws history for no reason. It was scummy when he made reads then couldn't explain them. It was scummy when he said we should choose between myself and TA. Why did that lynch die?

Others I would support a lynch of:  xeiron, raerae, mail mi
I don't find any of these things particularly scummy.  His lurking has been the scummiest thing I've seen from him.  Not explaining reads would be scummy except that was so early in the game. 

This is his post voting TA.  I don't see him asking anyone else to choose a side, and he gives reasons for his own decision. 
Vote: TwistedArcher


I read both of their cases, and while nkirbit's case has a bit of an OMGUS tone, I think that TA's case is really weak. Defending yourself isn't scummy. Ever.

EFHW, for the last time, did you ever read my case on nkirbit??? once again, this is NOT my case. I also called lio out on that being not my case and he agreed.

That seemed more like lio trying to get his vote down on me than him seeing my case as scummy. Do you agree?

Also, all the things nkirbit brought up are DEFINITELY scummy about lio. Why are you defending him here? Your defense of him is so flimsy..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #693 on: June 06, 2013, 01:56:20 pm »

We need to move closer to a lynch we are going in circles. Everyone please make one of these lists.

Want to lynch: nkirbit
Would lynch: lio, xeiron, raerae, eevee
Won't lynch: sudgy, mail-mi, efhw, myself

TA, I think you never took the time to explain your town read on Sudgy. Could you please do that?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #694 on: June 06, 2013, 01:58:35 pm »

We need to move closer to a lynch we are going in circles. Everyone please make one of these lists.

Want to lynch: nkirbit
Would lynch: lio, xeiron, raerae, eevee
Won't lynch: sudgy, mail-mi, efhw, myself

TA, I think you never took the time to explain your town read on Sudgy. Could you please do that?

While I think his reasons for joining in on my case on Nkirbit were wrong, I think the way he joined on it was much more reasonable. He understood my case, agreed with it, then looked for other reasons why he found Nkirbit scummy in addition to mine. Regardless of how correct I thought his reasons were, this was a much less scummy way of joining a wagon than what anyone else did.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #695 on: June 06, 2013, 02:00:23 pm »

Anyone not voting should place their vote ASAP. This includes EFHW and Eevee at least, and probably a few others I'm missing. Mail-mi as well, possibly?

Can we have a vote count, please?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #696 on: June 06, 2013, 02:00:38 pm »

Xeiron, yes or no - do you believe Sudgy's claim?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #697 on: June 06, 2013, 02:04:10 pm »

Vote Count Act I.XX:

sudgy (1): raerae
xeiron (3): sudgy, Twistedarcher, nkirbit
Twistedarcher (1): xeiron

Not Voting (4): mail-mi, EFHW, liopoil, Eevee

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

9 days have passed.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #698 on: June 06, 2013, 02:08:23 pm »

Thanks Shraeye.

We really do want to get this done tonight. Should we set another soft deadline for tonight?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #699 on: June 06, 2013, 02:08:44 pm »

Xeiron, yes or no - do you believe Sudgy's claim?
Most of it seems plausible, but I cannot stop thinking that there is something edited/cut out.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #700 on: June 06, 2013, 02:10:27 pm »

Thanks Shraeye.

We really do want to get this done tonight. Should we set another soft deadline for tonight?

I agree to soft deadline 8:30 pm tonight.
We should try to keep it this time, so we should make room for claims and stuff.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #701 on: June 06, 2013, 02:11:52 pm »

Thanks Shraeye.

We really do want to get this done tonight. Should we set another soft deadline for tonight?

Yes.


Also, want to/will lynch list:

Want to lynch: xeiron, nkirbit if that fails.
Will lynch if they are the only other option: lio, and maybe a few others if a good enough case is made on them.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #702 on: June 06, 2013, 02:19:26 pm »

Xeiron, yes or no - do you believe Sudgy's claim?
Most of it seems plausible, but I cannot stop thinking that there is something edited/cut out.

It would make sense if Sudgy was told which players names corresponded with Julia and Silvia.
Sudgy have voted for all players except TwistedArcher and raerae during this game.
I think he would have been more careful with his vote if he really had anonymous lovers.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #703 on: June 06, 2013, 02:25:05 pm »

Actually, Sudgy and TwistedArcher has acted like lovers this whole game.
They have maintained a townread on each other without much explanation.
They have supported each others case, and they have been active in pushing other cases when one them has been in he spotlight.
That reads like lovers to me. Lovers or scumpair.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #704 on: June 06, 2013, 02:26:55 pm »

Actually, Sudgy and TwistedArcher has acted like lovers this whole game.
They have maintained a townread on each other without much explanation.
They have supported each others case, and they have been active in pushing other cases when one them has been in he spotlight.
That reads like lovers to me. Lovers or scumpair.

No, I'm not Sudgy's lover.

But regardless of if I am, WHY ARE YOU CALLING THIS OUT.

If anyone thinks they figure out who Sudgy's lover is, DO NOT CALL IT OUT. Why give scum more targets??
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #705 on: June 06, 2013, 02:28:06 pm »

Actually, Sudgy and TwistedArcher has acted like lovers this whole game.
They have maintained a townread on each other without much explanation.
They have supported each others case, and they have been active in pushing other cases when one them has been in he spotlight.
That reads like lovers to me. Lovers or scumpair.

Not raerae, who I've given a townread on?
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #706 on: June 06, 2013, 02:28:43 pm »

Actually, Sudgy and TwistedArcher has acted like lovers this whole game.
They have maintained a townread on each other without much explanation.
They have supported each others case, and they have been active in pushing other cases when one them has been in he spotlight.
That reads like lovers to me. Lovers or scumpair.

No, I'm not Sudgy's lover.

But regardless of if I am, WHY ARE YOU CALLING THIS OUT.

If anyone thinks they figure out who Sudgy's lover is, DO NOT CALL IT OUT. Why give scum more targets??

I am calling this out because I think Sudgy is lying.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #707 on: June 06, 2013, 02:30:03 pm »

Actually, Sudgy and TwistedArcher has acted like lovers this whole game.
They have maintained a townread on each other without much explanation.
They have supported each others case, and they have been active in pushing other cases when one them has been in he spotlight.
That reads like lovers to me. Lovers or scumpair.

Not raerae, who I've given a townread on?

Raerae has voted on you.
A lover realationship should go both ways
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #708 on: June 06, 2013, 02:32:08 pm »

Xeiron, when you said you had information that one of myself, Sudgy, and Eevee was scum...

Did you mean at least one, or exactly one?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #709 on: June 06, 2013, 02:33:16 pm »

Xeiron, when you said you had information that one of myself, Sudgy, and Eevee was scum...

Did you mean at least one, or exactly one?
At least one.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #710 on: June 06, 2013, 02:41:24 pm »

Ugh. I REALLY want to see Xeiron's claim.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #711 on: June 06, 2013, 02:42:13 pm »

Xeiron, when you said you had information that one of myself, Sudgy, and Eevee was scum...

Did you mean at least one, or exactly one?
At least one.

And all of this is based on speculation meaning I am not totally sure there must be sum among you, but I find it highly likely.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #712 on: June 06, 2013, 02:44:18 pm »

Xeiron, when you said you had information that one of myself, Sudgy, and Eevee was scum...

Did you mean at least one, or exactly one?
At least one.

And all of this is based on speculation meaning I am not totally sure there must be sum among you, but I find it highly likely.

I'm not really buying Xeiron's claim.

I agree with everything Nkirbit said in Post #682, about it just being so opportunistic to push the lynch towards Sudgy and not towards himself. Why not bring it up earlier when I had 3 votes on me?

I also think the bolded sentence above is Xeiron giving himself an out if his information turns out to be incorrect (and if he's scum, he knows whether or not it will be incorrect or not).

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #713 on: June 06, 2013, 02:44:49 pm »

Nkirbit - I agree on your observations of xeiron's seemingly arbitrary voting. 

I don't get why you are so strong on lio -
I still want to lynch Lio. It was scummy when he brought up efhws history for no reason. It was scummy when he made reads then couldn't explain them. It was scummy when he said we should choose between myself and TA. Why did that lynch die?

Others I would support a lynch of:  xeiron, raerae, mail mi
I don't find any of these things particularly scummy.  His lurking has been the scummiest thing I've seen from him.  Not explaining reads would be scummy except that was so early in the game. 

This is his post voting TA.  I don't see him asking anyone else to choose a side, and he gives reasons for his own decision. 
Vote: TwistedArcher


I read both of their cases, and while nkirbit's case has a bit of an OMGUS tone, I think that TA's case is really weak. Defending yourself isn't scummy. Ever.

EFHW, for the last time, did you ever read my case on nkirbit??? once again, this is NOT my case. I also called lio out on that being not my case and he agreed.

That seemed more like lio trying to get his vote down on me than him seeing my case as scummy. Do you agree?

Also, all the things nkirbit brought up are DEFINITELY scummy about lio. Why are you defending him here? Your defense of him is so flimsy..
--This post isn't even about your case on nkirbit.  I don't think I am saying anything about your case, just citing Lio's post for a different reason.  The question is why did he vote, not what was your case.
--Since I also found your case to be weak, I don't think his position is scummy, and if he wants to place a vote then he should.  I don't see why he would want to get a vote down on you unless he thought you were being scummy.  There was no particular pressure at the time for scum or anyone to make a vote that I was aware of. 
--I am not defending Lio per se, I am calling attention to a case that doesn't - IMO - hold water.  Pushing such cases is either scummy or bad for town and I find them excellent scum-tells.  It's how I id'd Lio as scum in Another Dinner Party, for example.
--You can't just tell me to think something is scummy.  I don't think nkirbit has a great case.  You have a different opinion, I guess.  This kind of unwarranted pressure is scummy, btw. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #714 on: June 06, 2013, 02:47:14 pm »

Do you find it scummy that he voted me for my case that was actually Sudgy's case, but then when I called him out on it, instead of immediately switching to scummy, left his vote on me and made up a different reason?

Also, why do you not find the "TA or Nkirbit, and no one else" argument scummy?

I also have never felt that Lio's been lurking this game, really.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #715 on: June 06, 2013, 02:47:53 pm »

Actually, Sudgy and TwistedArcher has acted like lovers this whole game.
They have maintained a townread on each other without much explanation.
They have supported each others case, and they have been active in pushing other cases when one them has been in he spotlight.
That reads like lovers to me. Lovers or scumpair.

Not raerae, who I've given a townread on?

Raerae has voted on you.
A lover realationship should go both ways
In this case, raerae's vote did seem to be intended to lynch, but I don't think we can always equate voting with intent to lynch.  I think votes are often used as communication and are withdrawn after more clarity has been achieved.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #716 on: June 06, 2013, 02:49:47 pm »

I can't stay to answer your latest questions because I want to reread a bit to answer them.  I'll come back to them this afternoon or evening.

I may not be around at 8:30, but will be until 6 and after 9:30 for sure.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #717 on: June 06, 2013, 02:53:22 pm »

I would not support a Sudgy lynch.
Did you ever explain this?

I think so, but I'll do it again.  It has to do with similarities between my views on him here and my views on him in Mean Girls.  Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to give specific examples to explain why my reads were similar, but that's why I'm unwilling to support a Sudgy lynch at this time.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #718 on: June 06, 2013, 02:56:54 pm »

Xeiron, when you said you had information that one of myself, Sudgy, and Eevee was scum...

Did you mean at least one, or exactly one?
At least one.

And all of this is based on speculation meaning I am not totally sure there must be sum among you, but I find it highly likely.

I'm not really buying Xeiron's claim.

I agree with everything Nkirbit said in Post #682, about it just being so opportunistic to push the lynch towards Sudgy and not towards himself. Why not bring it up earlier when I had 3 votes on me?

I also think the bolded sentence above is Xeiron giving himself an out if his information turns out to be incorrect (and if he's scum, he knows whether or not it will be incorrect or not).

If my information turns out to be incorrect, I will not need any out, as i have already lost (or won, if I am scum).
I am saying this so you will not accuse me of lying when I put forth my whole case in the future.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #719 on: June 06, 2013, 02:58:16 pm »

Can you just claim already?

You've said enough that you really should just put it all out there. Waiting to claim is just going to drag this game out even longer.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #720 on: June 06, 2013, 02:59:20 pm »

Xeiron, when you said you had information that one of myself, Sudgy, and Eevee was scum...

Did you mean at least one, or exactly one?
At least one.

And all of this is based on speculation meaning I am not totally sure there must be sum among you, but I find it highly likely.

I'm not really buying Xeiron's claim.

I agree with everything Nkirbit said in Post #682, about it just being so opportunistic to push the lynch towards Sudgy and not towards himself. Why not bring it up earlier when I had 3 votes on me?

I also think the bolded sentence above is Xeiron giving himself an out if his information turns out to be incorrect (and if he's scum, he knows whether or not it will be incorrect or not).

If my information turns out to be incorrect, I will not need any out, as i have already lost (or won, if I am scum).


My comprehension skills are failing here.  Can you clarify, Xeiron, or can someone else explain it?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #721 on: June 06, 2013, 03:00:36 pm »

Oh never mind, I get what your were trying to say.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #722 on: June 06, 2013, 03:00:53 pm »

Maybe that if he's incorrect, and me, sudgy and eevee are all town, then we'll have 3 mislynches and town will have already lost? Not sure but that's my interpretation.

It seems ridiculous that we'd let this information determine our next 3 lynches, though.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #723 on: June 06, 2013, 03:01:54 pm »

Nkirbit - I agree on your observations of xeiron's seemingly arbitrary voting. 

Why haven't you voted then?  What's your opposition to a Xeiron lynch, or at least getting him to L-1 to see if he will claim or not?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #724 on: June 06, 2013, 03:02:34 pm »

Maybe that if he's incorrect, and me, sudgy and eevee are all town, then we'll have 3 mislynches and town will have already lost? Not sure but that's my interpretation.

It seems ridiculous that we'd let this information determine our next 3 lynches, though.

Yes, that's what I figured as well, and yes, that's ridiculous.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #725 on: June 06, 2013, 03:03:02 pm »

If my information turns out to be incorrect, I will not need any out, as i have already lost (or won, if I am scum).


My comprehension skills are failing here.  Can you clarify, Xeiron, or can someone else explain it?

We lynch TA+ 1NK+ Lynch Sugdy+ 1nk+ Lynch Eeevee+ 1 nk  = three players left. If I am wrong, all dead players are town and scum win.
This is assuming no lovers. With lovers scum win even faster.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #726 on: June 06, 2013, 03:05:54 pm »

Anybody not voting xeiron: If you are don't want to lynch him, please say why.  If you would be fine with lynching, him, VOTE.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #727 on: June 06, 2013, 03:07:01 pm »

Maybe that if he's incorrect, and me, sudgy and eevee are all town, then we'll have 3 mislynches and town will have already lost? Not sure but that's my interpretation.

It seems ridiculous that we'd let this information determine our next 3 lynches, though.

I want this information to determine the lynch today.
I am pretty sure it is time for a massclaim tomorrow.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #728 on: June 06, 2013, 03:07:41 pm »

Maybe that if he's incorrect, and me, sudgy and eevee are all town, then we'll have 3 mislynches and town will have already lost? Not sure but that's my interpretation.

It seems ridiculous that we'd let this information determine our next 3 lynches, though.

I want this information to determine the lynch today.
I am pretty sure it is time for a massclaim tomorrow.

There's no way we're allowing your information to determine a lynch today without you claiming.  No way.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #729 on: June 06, 2013, 03:08:08 pm »

And we'll worry about massclaiming tomorrow when we get there.  I don't see a reason why we should yet, but we'll see.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #730 on: June 06, 2013, 03:10:11 pm »

I'm frustrated that EFHW seems to have gone away without either voting for Xeiron or explaining why she's unwilling to vote Xeiron.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #731 on: June 06, 2013, 03:11:03 pm »

Maybe that if he's incorrect, and me, sudgy and eevee are all town, then we'll have 3 mislynches and town will have already lost? Not sure but that's my interpretation.

It seems ridiculous that we'd let this information determine our next 3 lynches, though.

I want this information to determine the lynch today.
I am pretty sure it is time for a massclaim tomorrow.

There's no way we're allowing your information to determine a lynch today without you claiming.  No way.

Agree with this.

Also, I will not be claiming tomorrow unless I have a very very very very good reason to do so. And I encourage everyone else to not claim unless they feel they must.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #732 on: June 06, 2013, 03:16:07 pm »

Okay, Xeiron, if you think we should lynch on your information, why should we lynch Sudgy instead of TA or Eevee?  Because it's convenient?

Convenience isn't a good way to catch scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #733 on: June 06, 2013, 03:18:46 pm »

Maybe that if he's incorrect, and me, sudgy and eevee are all town, then we'll have 3 mislynches and town will have already lost? Not sure but that's my interpretation.

It seems ridiculous that we'd let this information determine our next 3 lynches, though.

I want this information to determine the lynch today.
I am pretty sure it is time for a massclaim tomorrow.

There's no way we're allowing your information to determine a lynch today without you claiming.  No way.

Agree with this.

Also, I will not be claiming tomorrow unless I have a very very very very good reason to do so. And I encourage everyone else to not claim unless they feel they must.

We can talk about claiming tomorrow.

But I would be interested in having Julia or Silvia flavor claim today. That way we would know Sudgy is not outright lying.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #734 on: June 06, 2013, 03:20:32 pm »

Maybe that if he's incorrect, and me, sudgy and eevee are all town, then we'll have 3 mislynches and town will have already lost? Not sure but that's my interpretation.

It seems ridiculous that we'd let this information determine our next 3 lynches, though.

I want this information to determine the lynch today.
I am pretty sure it is time for a massclaim tomorrow.

There's no way we're allowing your information to determine a lynch today without you claiming.  No way.

Agree with this.

Also, I will not be claiming tomorrow unless I have a very very very very good reason to do so. And I encourage everyone else to not claim unless they feel they must.

We can talk about claiming tomorrow.

But I would be interested in having Julia or Silvia flavor claim today. That way we would know Sudgy is not outright lying.

NONONONONONONONONO  THEN SCUM COULD EASILY KILL ME OR THEM AND WE BOTH DIE

With just me claiming, someone else can protect me if possible.  With two, that would be almost impossible.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #735 on: June 06, 2013, 03:21:07 pm »

No, no, no!!!

If we have a confirmed pair of lovers, known to scum, then they have TWO choices of who to night kill tonight to get 2 people. If we only have 1 doctor, or JK, or whatever, they can't protect both lovers at the same time.

Why do you want scum to know who both lovers are? Don't you see how that's just awful for town?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #736 on: June 06, 2013, 03:21:33 pm »


But I would be interested in having Julia or Silvia flavor claim today. That way we would know Sudgy is not outright lying.

This is a horrible idea.

We should absolutely NOT give mafia multiple targets for try and hit two town at once with a NK.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #737 on: June 06, 2013, 03:22:02 pm »

Wow, that idea got shot down quickly.  Haha.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #738 on: June 06, 2013, 03:22:08 pm »

Okay, Xeiron, if you think we should lynch on your information, why should we lynch Sudgy instead of TA or Eevee?  Because it's convenient?

Convenience isn't a good way to catch scum.

I have moved my vote to TA, so TA is fine.

I would prefer not to lynch eevee as I find him townier than the others..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #739 on: June 06, 2013, 03:23:01 pm »

Okay, Xeiron, if you think we should lynch on your information, why should we lynch Sudgy instead of TA or Eevee?  Because it's convenient?

Convenience isn't a good way to catch scum.

I would prefer not to lynch eevee as I find him townier than the others..

Why is that?
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #740 on: June 06, 2013, 03:24:23 pm »

Okay, Xeiron, if you think we should lynch on your information, why should we lynch Sudgy instead of TA or Eevee?  Because it's convenient?

Convenience isn't a good way to catch scum.

I have moved my vote to TA, so TA is fine.

I would prefer not to lynch eevee as I find him townier than the others..

Why did you not announce this information the first time you voted for me? When I had 3 votes on me? Especially if you found me scummier than Sudgy?

I just don't get why you saved the information when I was the target, then used it when Sudgy was the target, and are now justifying it to switch back to me.

It just seems like you're more concerned with trying to save yourself rather than actually lynch scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #741 on: June 06, 2013, 03:27:36 pm »

From EFHW:

Nkirbit - I agree on your observations of xeiron's seemingly arbitrary voting. 

I think Xeiron and sudgy are scummier than TA and would vote for either of them.

I'm not comfortable lynching xeiron without a claim.

Yet, we see no fourth vote to pressure Xeiron into a claim.  No vote to try and force a lynch through.  Actions and words aren't adding up here.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #742 on: June 06, 2013, 03:33:19 pm »

From EFHW:

Nkirbit - I agree on your observations of xeiron's seemingly arbitrary voting. 

I think Xeiron and sudgy are scummier than TA and would vote for either of them.

I'm not comfortable lynching xeiron without a claim.

Yet, we see no fourth vote to pressure Xeiron into a claim.  No vote to try and force a lynch through.  Actions and words aren't adding up here.
I'm not done with responding to people.  Then I will decide where to vote.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #743 on: June 06, 2013, 03:34:18 pm »

From EFHW:

Nkirbit - I agree on your observations of xeiron's seemingly arbitrary voting. 

I think Xeiron and sudgy are scummier than TA and would vote for either of them.

I'm not comfortable lynching xeiron without a claim.

Yet, we see no fourth vote to pressure Xeiron into a claim.  No vote to try and force a lynch through.  Actions and words aren't adding up here.
I'm not done with responding to people.  Then I will decide where to vote.

Okay, fair enough.  I thought you had headed off.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #744 on: June 06, 2013, 03:37:29 pm »

Oh my, eight members are viewing the thread.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #745 on: June 06, 2013, 03:43:45 pm »

Okay, Xeiron, if you think we should lynch on your information, why should we lynch Sudgy instead of TA or Eevee?  Because it's convenient?

Convenience isn't a good way to catch scum.

I have moved my vote to TA, so TA is fine.

I would prefer not to lynch eevee as I find him townier than the others..

Why did you not announce this information the first time you voted for me? When I had 3 votes on me? Especially if you found me scummier than Sudgy?

I just don't get why you saved the information when I was the target, then used it when Sudgy was the target, and are now justifying it to switch back to me.

It just seems like you're more concerned with trying to save yourself rather than actually lynch scum.

Originally, I did not plan on saying anything at all. This was back when I voted TA.
I changed to Sudgy when we approached deadline with one vote on each person.
At the same time Sudgy voted for me, and asked for an explanation of my vote on him.
I found out I had nothing in thread to call him out on, so I felt I had to soft claim to justify my vote. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #746 on: June 06, 2013, 03:47:05 pm »

Also, while I share everyone's curiosity about xeiron's claim, I disagree with forcing him to fully claim.  We don't know the possible consequences of his claiming, but he does.  It's up to him to figure out the best time. 

I also agree with Eevee that it is very easy to mess up the timing of sharing information, and

if xeiron thought the TA lynch could go through without him claiming then not claiming would have been the better course.

That said, I won't be using his claim to in any way affect my voting today.  We don't know if it's true or if his reasoning is sound (though xeiron's reasoning usually is) and even he says he isn't sure.

Finally, while I gave reasons potentially explaining xeiron's behavior, he himself did not give those reasons, which does raise questions for me.

PPE: just saw his last post, where he does give some of his reasoning.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #747 on: June 06, 2013, 03:50:33 pm »

Ultimately, all of my suspicion on Xeiron comes from his decision to semi-claim.  Maybe he just horribly botched it.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #748 on: June 06, 2013, 03:53:12 pm »

Assuming a player made a mistake is not an assumption that I would be inclined to make, though.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #749 on: June 06, 2013, 03:55:21 pm »

I also find it odd that Xeiron has been discussing issues such as should we believe Sudgy's claim or not, should lovers claim or not, should Sudgy announce his whisper target enough, etc. despite the fact that we came to a near universal consensus on these issues.  And that he realistically expects us to lynch on a semi-claim of a player under pressure when we have 750 posts to work with.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #750 on: June 06, 2013, 03:57:08 pm »

Ultimately, all of my suspicion on Xeiron comes from his decision to semi-claim.  Maybe he just horribly botched it.
You don't know his role, so you don't know his reasons. I don't want to lynch X because I think this is townie, not scummy. There's my reasoning TA.

No more soft-deadlines. they're meaningless at this point.

I think Xeiron might be drawing too many assumptions from his role, say he thinks up 4 totally logical things, but if the last one isn't true everything falls apart.

I'm willing to lynch sudgy.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #751 on: June 06, 2013, 04:03:29 pm »

While we are waiting for the rest, let me ask you some questions.

Do you think Ashersky made this setup so that:
1. We are in LYLO (or MYLO) D1?
2. We win D1 if we lynch correctly?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #752 on: June 06, 2013, 04:04:32 pm »

I doubt we are in mylo or lylo, but it's totally possible that there's just one lover-scumteam or something.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #753 on: June 06, 2013, 04:09:45 pm »

TA - I assume you are referring to this post:

Vote: TwistedArcher


I read both of their cases, and while nkirbit's case has a bit of an OMGUS tone, I think that TA's case is really weak. Defending yourself isn't scummy. Ever.

Lio, that wasn't a part of my case, at all. That was Sudgy's case.

While I find Nkirbit scummy, I find him scummy for completely different reasons than Sudgy does. I'll go back and quote Sudgy's case and where I fall on each of Sudgy's points. Then I'll respond to Nkirbit's defense.

You said you found nkirbit scummy for discrediting your case/you.  Isn't that you finding him scummy for defending himself?  Here is Sudgy's case.  He doesn't say anything about nkirbit's defense.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #754 on: June 06, 2013, 04:10:44 pm »

And if you are referring the OMGUS allusion, they both mention that.  Neither says that you said anything about OMGUS.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #755 on: June 06, 2013, 04:17:49 pm »

#283 My case on Nkirbit
#285, 287, 288, 289 - Nkirbit's defense, case on me
#292 Sudgy votes Nkirbit - agrees with my case, says Nkirbit has been over-defending
#309, Lio votes TA. "I read both of their cases, and while nkirbit's case has a bit of an OMGUS tone, I think that TA's case is really weak. Defending yourself isn't scummy. Ever."  My previous posts were 293 and 296, none of which even mentioned nkirbit defending himself.
#311, I call Lio out on this.
#313 Lio says "Oh yeah, your case is more about other stuff". Then goes on to disagree with my case, leaving his vote on me, while saying he'd consider a sudgy lynch.

Me mentioning Nkirbit's defense confirming my read did not happen until after this. Lio's initial vote on me was for reasons that were attributed to Sudgy, and not to me. Yet when I called him on this, even though he acknowledged, instead of removing his vote, he then found new reasons why my case was scummy.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #756 on: June 06, 2013, 04:19:30 pm »

Also, Lio's next post after his vote:

oh, and I felt like I should vote for one of the two, seeing as I think there's a good chance that at least one as scum. I think that perhaps, being brothers, they can read each other better? I know that isn't the case in mcmc-robz, but still.

This is what nkirbit was talking about with the either TA or nkirbit thing being scummy.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #757 on: June 06, 2013, 04:20:28 pm »

While I still think Nkirbit is very possibly scum, he's approached the end of this day VERY rationally in my eyes, and I agree with everything that he's said. He has been trying to get a correct lynch, and analyze all of the evidence, which I don't really get from everyone.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #758 on: June 06, 2013, 04:21:02 pm »

While we are waiting for the rest, let me ask you some questions.

Do you think Ashersky made this setup so that:
1. We are in LYLO (or MYLO) D1?
2. We win D1 if we lynch correctly?

No, of course not. What does this have to do with anything?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #759 on: June 06, 2013, 04:22:04 pm »

Lio, EFHW,
This day is going nowhere without more votes. Can you two please lay down your votes somewhere? We're just wasting time and going in circle currently, and it's helping scum by shortening future days.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #760 on: June 06, 2013, 04:22:42 pm »

Eevee, you said you wanted to lynch EFHW. Now that there's a bit of time, can you explain that?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #761 on: June 06, 2013, 04:23:03 pm »

Lio, EFHW,
This day is going nowhere without more votes. Can you two please lay down your votes somewhere? We're just wasting time and going in circle currently, and it's helping scum by shortening future days.
hmmmm, okay. I'll put down a vote soon.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #762 on: June 06, 2013, 04:26:19 pm »

Ultimately, all of my suspicion on Xeiron comes from his decision to semi-claim.  Maybe he just horribly botched it.
You don't know his role, so you don't know his reasons. I don't want to lynch X because I think this is townie, not scummy. There's my reasoning TA.

No more soft-deadlines. they're meaningless at this point.

I think Xeiron might be drawing too many assumptions from his role, say he thinks up 4 totally logical things, but if the last one isn't true everything falls apart.

I'm willing to lynch sudgy.

Last night, you believed Sudgy's claim (although you did say it MIGHT belong to scum), and were trying to figure out the best plan for whom he should whisper.

Yet now you're willing to lynch him. What changed?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #763 on: June 06, 2013, 04:28:41 pm »

I believe his claim, but that doesn't make him town...
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #764 on: June 06, 2013, 04:30:17 pm »

Ok, I see I had the timeline mixed up.  I reread his post, though, and he has quite a few reasons why he disagrees with you AND he is open to looking into sudgy, as you seem to suggest in your protest.  I don't make anything in particular of his not unvoting right then and there.  And I doubt he made up his reasons for disagreeing after his vote.  The thing about picking one of you I already disagreed with as an assumption, but it's not an unreasonable question. 

Remember please that I'm not defending Lio - I'm accusing you of again exaggerating small things into huge things and trying to get someone lynched on that basis.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #765 on: June 06, 2013, 04:30:40 pm »

Lio, EFHW,
This day is going nowhere without more votes. Can you two please lay down your votes somewhere? We're just wasting time and going in circle currently, and it's helping scum by shortening future days.
hmmmm, okay. I'll put down a vote soon.
THIS is scummy.  Why so accomodating?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #766 on: June 06, 2013, 04:32:09 pm »

because he makes a good point. Not voting at this point is anti-town.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #767 on: June 06, 2013, 04:32:26 pm »

I believe his claim, but that doesn't make him town...

and this. Even if Sudgy isn't town, his lover probably is.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #768 on: June 06, 2013, 04:34:24 pm »

Lio, EFHW,
This day is going nowhere without more votes. Can you two please lay down your votes somewhere? We're just wasting time and going in circle currently, and it's helping scum by shortening future days.

Vote: Twistedarcher
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #769 on: June 06, 2013, 04:34:56 pm »

I believe his claim, but that doesn't make him town...

and this. Even if Sudgy isn't town, his lover probably is.
If we cannot lynch scum if their lover is town.
How do you plan to win?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #770 on: June 06, 2013, 04:35:03 pm »

Ok, I see I had the timeline mixed up.  I reread his post, though, and he has quite a few reasons why he disagrees with you AND he is open to looking into sudgy, as you seem to suggest in your protest.  I don't make anything in particular of his not unvoting right then and there.  And I doubt he made up his reasons for disagreeing after his vote.  The thing about picking one of you I already disagreed with as an assumption, but it's not an unreasonable question. 

Remember please that I'm not defending Lio - I'm accusing you of again exaggerating small things into huge things and trying to get someone lynched on that basis.

I'm not exaggerating -- I'm looking into every possibility. Ignoring every piece of evidence against every player would be silly. I'm suspicious of all of you, as I should be, and I'd expect any town member to be suspicious of each and every other player, as well.

Yes, it strikes me as odd that he comes up with an initial reason for voting me, then when he is pointed out that reason was Sudgy, not me, instead of maintaining that that reason is the main thing he found scummy, and switching to Sudgy, he looked for other reasons to justify his vote on me.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #771 on: June 06, 2013, 04:35:49 pm »

so what? we want scum to die no matter what, even if they bring town down with them.

Lio, EFHW,
This day is going nowhere without more votes. Can you two please lay down your votes somewhere? We're just wasting time and going in circle currently, and it's helping scum by shortening future days.

Vote: Twistedarcher
What?? Vote: EFHW
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #772 on: June 06, 2013, 04:36:04 pm »

I believe his claim, but that doesn't make him town...

and this. Even if Sudgy isn't town, his lover probably is.
If we cannot lynch scum if their lover is town.
How do you plan to win?
once again, you have a point.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #773 on: June 06, 2013, 04:36:30 pm »

Lio, EFHW,
This day is going nowhere without more votes. Can you two please lay down your votes somewhere? We're just wasting time and going in circle currently, and it's helping scum by shortening future days.

Vote: Twistedarcher

When you realize after this game I'm town, can you please never accuse me of being a scum on this stupid line of reasoning again? The only thing getting votes for scumhunting will do is make me want to scumhunt less, and that's not something I'm willing to do, since it's how we win the game!
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #774 on: June 06, 2013, 04:37:25 pm »

I believe his claim, but that doesn't make him town...

and this. Even if Sudgy isn't town, his lover probably is.
If we cannot lynch scum if their lover is town.
How do you plan to win?

If we think Sudgy is scum, it's worth lynching him, even if a town member dies with him.

But I don't think Sudgy is scum
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #775 on: June 06, 2013, 05:32:07 pm »

If sudgy hadn't claimed, we likely would have lynched him. Why is xeiron different?
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ashersky

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #776 on: June 06, 2013, 06:14:27 pm »

Vote Count Act I.XXI:

sudgy (1): raerae
xeiron (3): sudgy, Twistedarcher, nkirbit
Twistedarcher (2): xeiron, EFHW
EFHW (1): liopoil

Not Voting (2): mail-mi, Eevee

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 06:31:49 pm by ashersky »
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #777 on: June 06, 2013, 07:12:12 pm »

Who all is around?  We should definitely get a lynch tonight.. We can't wait for longer

Preferred lynch:  xeiron
Will lynch: liopoil, mail-mi, raerae
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #778 on: June 06, 2013, 07:15:48 pm »

Quote from: ashersky

All roles, with flavor names, are pre-designed.  That means they do presuppose alignment.  All roles will be assigned randomly.


The fact that roles do presuppose alignment brings me back to vote: sudgy
I cannot see that there is room for that many scummy flavour names. Proteus is propably not town.

Besides i still think that there must be something missing in sudgys claim.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #779 on: June 06, 2013, 07:17:45 pm »

Quote from: ashersky

All roles, with flavor names, are pre-designed.  That means they do presuppose alignment.  All roles will be assigned randomly.


The fact that roles do presuppose alignment brings me back to vote: sudgy
I cannot see that there is room for that many scummy flavour names. Proteus is propably not town.

Besides i still think that there must be something missing in sudgys claim.

What? I don't get the part about there being not enough too for many scummy flavor names.
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (sign-up/set-up stage only)
« Reply #780 on: June 06, 2013, 07:20:54 pm »


What? I don't get the part about there being not enough too for many scummy flavor names.

It is all part of my secret case that I do not want to claim.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #781 on: June 06, 2013, 07:27:21 pm »

I think I know what your role is now. If it is what I think it is, that's a damn interesting role...
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #782 on: June 06, 2013, 07:27:58 pm »

Your role confirms sudgys claim, correct? Or at least partially confirms?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #783 on: June 06, 2013, 07:28:20 pm »

I should say flavor, not role
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #784 on: June 06, 2013, 07:30:16 pm »

Ugh.  Too much, TA
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #785 on: June 06, 2013, 07:36:27 pm »

Ugh.  Too much, TA

I don't know. On second thought I'm not sure what his role is. I had an initial guess but I'm not sure if it fits. I don't know whether I should trust x or not, still
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #786 on: June 06, 2013, 07:39:42 pm »

I'm happy with an xeiron lynch.  He's been trying to push more claiming (especially since he's pushing the other half of the possible lovers to claim) but won't do it himself.  I do not, under any circumstances, think he should claim because then we'd just back off again and push somebody else to the same thing.  Before you know it, we've all claimed and this role madness games turns into the worst one ever played.

Vote: xeiron
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #787 on: June 06, 2013, 07:39:55 pm »

Dang.

Vote: xeiron
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #788 on: June 06, 2013, 07:40:26 pm »

And apparently that's L-1, kids.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #789 on: June 06, 2013, 07:42:11 pm »

So we think we should lynch without a claim? I kind I agree. We should figure out before we ask for a claim on whether or not we will lynch.

Agree that asking for the second lover to claim is very suspicious.
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mail-mi

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #790 on: June 06, 2013, 07:42:32 pm »

Really fast reply before the Internet goes bad: I think this is town sudgy.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #791 on: June 06, 2013, 07:43:08 pm »

I want xeirons info though.
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shraeye

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #792 on: June 06, 2013, 07:43:55 pm »

Vote Count Act I.XXII:

sudgy (1): xeiron
xeiron (4): sudgy, Twistedarcher, nkirbit, raerae
Twistedarcher (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): liopoil

Not Voting (2): mail-mi, Eevee

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #793 on: June 06, 2013, 07:46:24 pm »

I want xeirons info though.

So then we back off and push somebody else to claim?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #794 on: June 06, 2013, 07:47:49 pm »

If we're going to lynch him, give him a chance to give his info, and then go ahead and lynch him
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #795 on: June 06, 2013, 07:49:49 pm »

If we're going to lynch him, give him a chance to give his info, and then go ahead and lynch him

I agree. If we decide to lynch if he's town he will still want to give us his role and what he knows so we can use it later on. But we can't back down from a second lynch...so we should decide carefully before someone states intent to hammer.
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ashersky

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #796 on: June 06, 2013, 07:50:18 pm »

Vote Count Act I.XXIII:

sudgy (1): xeiron
xeiron (4): sudgy, Twistedarcher, nkirbit, raerae
Twistedarcher (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): liopoil

Not Voting (2): mail-mi, Eevee

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

9 days have passed.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #797 on: June 06, 2013, 08:00:28 pm »

If we're going to lynch him, give him a chance to give his info, and then go ahead and lynch him

Isn't that exactly what we tried to do with sudgy?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #798 on: June 06, 2013, 08:04:40 pm »

If we're going to lynch him, give him a chance to give his info, and then go ahead and lynch him

Isn't that exactly what we tried to do with sudgy?

Xeiron actually said he has info though,  sudgy hasn't.

Is anyone willing to hammer, anyway?  It's irrelevant if no one is?
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #799 on: June 06, 2013, 08:05:40 pm »

no, absolutely do not hammer.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #800 on: June 06, 2013, 08:06:19 pm »

time for xeiron to claim?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #801 on: June 06, 2013, 08:06:58 pm »

If we're going to lynch him, give him a chance to give his info, and then go ahead and lynch him

Isn't that exactly what we tried to do with sudgy?

I think I want to hear Xeiron has to say before a hammer. Just because I'd hate for him be towny, die, and not give us what he has to say.

i doubt his claim will change my point of view -- the way he's gone about it has been so fishy to me...It seems like he's more concerned with not getting lynched than anything else.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #802 on: June 06, 2013, 08:07:24 pm »

no, absolutely do not hammer.

Would you be willing to hammer if necessary? Or no?
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #803 on: June 06, 2013, 08:08:09 pm »

Okay, fine, I'll claim for xeiron

xeiron and I are lovers.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #804 on: June 06, 2013, 08:08:47 pm »

I am Hero, and he is Claudio
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #805 on: June 06, 2013, 08:10:04 pm »

Okay.

Xeiron, where is this information you claim to have coming from, if you're a lover with Liopoil?
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #806 on: June 06, 2013, 08:10:39 pm »

that should come as no surprise, given how I've acted around him.

I can claim our roles too. We have a QT.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #807 on: June 06, 2013, 08:10:51 pm »

Btw, I like that flavor, it's from my favorite play :D
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #808 on: June 06, 2013, 08:10:58 pm »

I can also explain xeiron's info.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #809 on: June 06, 2013, 08:12:27 pm »

Please do
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #810 on: June 06, 2013, 08:13:07 pm »

This is much better than a mislynch, and seems very true to me.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #811 on: June 06, 2013, 08:14:41 pm »

wait, so do you support it or not?

I can't explain xeiron's info without claiming our roles. should I?
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #812 on: June 06, 2013, 08:14:47 pm »

I am Hero, and he is Claudio

I confirm that this is true.
I would rather not claim any more except to note that I was told whitch player I am lover with at the game. I find it strange that sudgy did not?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #813 on: June 06, 2013, 08:15:12 pm »

Oh I didn't realize you had a second role. Ummm. Hmm not yet let me think
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #814 on: June 06, 2013, 08:15:31 pm »

unvote in case scum tries to quickhammer
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #815 on: June 06, 2013, 08:15:34 pm »

I can also explain xeiron's info.

Please do not.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #816 on: June 06, 2013, 08:16:31 pm »

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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #817 on: June 06, 2013, 08:16:58 pm »

I am Hero, and he is Claudio

I confirm that this is true.
I would rather not claim any more except to note that I was told whitch player I am lover with at the game. I find it strange that sudgy did not?

Hero and Claudio being lovers confirmed to each other makes sense.

Proteus not knowing which of Julia/other woman whose name I forget also makes sense.

(That's shakespearean context).

Ughughugh I don't know what to do.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #818 on: June 06, 2013, 08:17:15 pm »

Hm.  You guys are prime NK targets. Is it significant enough info that it would be very helpful if you die, or is it not much more concrete than what you've already told us?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #819 on: June 06, 2013, 08:18:41 pm »

I think I want to look at raerae here. It was odd that she was against allowing a claim. Certainly we wish that they hadn't had to claim, but this is a lot better than a mislynch.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #820 on: June 06, 2013, 08:19:16 pm »

Hm.  You guys are prime NK targets. Is it significant enough info that it would be very helpful if you die, or is it not much more concrete than what you've already told us?
Well, it does add a fair bit of insight into the nature of the setup. It might lead to a massclaim.

what do you mean a lot better than a misslynch? it's a double misslynch!
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #821 on: June 06, 2013, 08:20:05 pm »

If they are NK'd we will never know what it was they had to tell us.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #822 on: June 06, 2013, 08:20:45 pm »

I think we should come out with it. what do you think X? We really did not want to claim, but you guys were just too curious!
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #823 on: June 06, 2013, 08:21:02 pm »

Okay. My thoughts.

Claim is believable, and fits in Shakespearean context.

Could be fake claim for Borrachio / Margaret (evil-doers and followers of Don John who connives to interrupt the marraige by fooling Claudio into believe Hero was a whore and a liar.)

If your claim is true, I don't think you'll make it through the night, especially if there's information you have kept from town.

Knowing this, it might be better to give the information, anyways..
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #824 on: June 06, 2013, 08:21:10 pm »

Hm.  You guys are prime NK targets. Is it significant enough info that it would be very helpful if you die, or is it not much more concrete than what you've already told us?
Well, it does add a fair bit of insight into the nature of the setup. It might lead to a massclaim.

what do you mean a lot better than a misslynch? it's a double misslynch!

I'm saying that having your roles outed is a lot better than a double mislynch. Had we not allowed xeiron to claim, that is what we would have had, and were a lot better off letting you claim
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #825 on: June 06, 2013, 08:21:22 pm »

Hm.  You guys are prime NK targets. Is it significant enough info that it would be very helpful if you die, or is it not much more concrete than what you've already told us?
Well, it does add a fair bit of insight into the nature of the setup. It might lead to a massclaim.

what do you mean a lot better than a misslynch? it's a double misslynch!
Either of you could still be scum.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #826 on: June 06, 2013, 08:21:56 pm »

I think we should come out with it. what do you think X? We really did not want to claim, but you guys were just too curious!

We would have lynched xeiron had you not claimed, almost certainly. This is better
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #827 on: June 06, 2013, 08:22:29 pm »

Hm.  You guys are prime NK targets. Is it significant enough info that it would be very helpful if you die, or is it not much more concrete than what you've already told us?
Well, it does add a fair bit of insight into the nature of the setup. It might lead to a massclaim.

what do you mean a lot better than a misslynch? it's a double misslynch!
Either of you could still be scum.

Is it possible for one but not the other?  Either they both are or neither are.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #828 on: June 06, 2013, 08:23:02 pm »

well, I mean, you shouldn't have tried to lynch X at all :P

unless somebody objects soon, I'm claiming our roles.
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #829 on: June 06, 2013, 08:23:13 pm »

Fine.
There are four pairs of lovers in this game.
And most likely two scumteams.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #830 on: June 06, 2013, 08:24:22 pm »

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with 2 scumteams.

I really wanted to wait for an intent to hammer, but it seemed to me that it would come inevitably and I knew a hammer would be a disaster.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #831 on: June 06, 2013, 08:24:37 pm »

Holy hell.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #832 on: June 06, 2013, 08:24:57 pm »

Maybe people should claim lover-not lover?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #833 on: June 06, 2013, 08:25:15 pm »

Unvote

Wow, what the heck, I don't know what to think..
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #834 on: June 06, 2013, 08:25:45 pm »

Fine.
There are four pairs of lovers in this game.
And most likely two scumteams.
We don't know this 100%, just seems the most likely possibility.
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #835 on: June 06, 2013, 08:26:11 pm »

This is why I have a problem with  scummy flavor names. Their town lover would understand something is wrong.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #836 on: June 06, 2013, 08:26:50 pm »

Maybe people should claim lover-not lover?
Actually, I think this is a VERY good idea.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #837 on: June 06, 2013, 08:27:26 pm »

Xeiron, why do you think we shouldn't role-claim? we're gonna get killed...
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #838 on: June 06, 2013, 08:30:14 pm »

Xeiron, why do you think we shouldn't role-claim? we're gonna get killed...

I think scum would know all lover-pairs by now.
They get an advantage during night. We have to lynch right today.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #839 on: June 06, 2013, 08:30:40 pm »

I think I want to look at raerae here. It was odd that she was against allowing a claim. Certainly we wish that they hadn't had to claim, but this is a lot better than a mislynch.

ALLOWING ANY CLAIM AND HAVE BEEN AGAINST IT ALL GAME.  I'm so flipping upset at other events.  I need to take the night off.  My vote is where I want it to be.  I can't see Ash putting in lovers of the same team because that would be too powerful in a 9 player game and X is scummier than Lio.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #840 on: June 06, 2013, 08:32:20 pm »

Do you think all lovers have the same alignment?
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #841 on: June 06, 2013, 08:33:06 pm »

If scum know the lover-pairs, then we should claim them so that we know the lover-pairs too!

raerae, lots of things are possible, this is RMM, and most players are lovers.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #842 on: June 06, 2013, 08:33:26 pm »

I'm going to go ahead and say that I'm not a lover.  Anyone else?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #843 on: June 06, 2013, 08:34:04 pm »

Lio, X,

Where does the one of Sudgy/TA/Eevee thing come from?
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #844 on: June 06, 2013, 08:35:05 pm »

it comes from one of our roles. I don't quite agree with it, I'd say a different group of players.

anyone else not a lover?
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #845 on: June 06, 2013, 08:35:48 pm »

I'm going to go ahead and say that I'm not a lover.  Anyone else?

Does this include that you are not silvia or julia either?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #846 on: June 06, 2013, 08:38:39 pm »

Let's slow down on the claiming lover / notlover.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea eventually, but let's think it through, ok?

So, say we have 4 sets of lovers, and 1 non-lover.

I'd be inclined to believe the non-lover was town, and that we have 2, heck maybe even 3, scum teams of lovers.

If we don't have 4 sets of lovers, that means that the information X and Lio gave us was bad. Now, this doesn't necessarily make them scummy, but man.

They seem to have gotten a LOT of information pre-game. Like, a list of information never seen before, I think. To be able to determine the setup of the game, AND be able to create a list of players that contains a scum? Crazy.

Is the amount of information you have going to increase over the course of the game, or did you get everything you're going to have pre-game?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #847 on: June 06, 2013, 08:39:26 pm »

I'm going to go ahead and say that I'm not a lover.  Anyone else?

Does this include that you are not silvia or julia either?

I am neither.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #848 on: June 06, 2013, 08:40:27 pm »

Can you please put a number on how sure you are that there are 4 sets of lovers? Lio, X, do this separately
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #849 on: June 06, 2013, 08:41:54 pm »

we don't actually know that much. A lot of it is just deductions.

That said, I find it very unlikely that claiming lover-not lover will hurt town, and there is info to be gleaned.

I am not confident in that list of players that contains a scum.
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #850 on: June 06, 2013, 08:42:02 pm »

Lio, X,

Where does the one of Sudgy/TA/Eevee thing come from?

It comes from the fact that i found those three most plausible to be not lovers. And I needed a not lover to be scum as to come up with a setup with two scumteams where we do not start in lylo.


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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #851 on: June 06, 2013, 08:42:07 pm »

vote: xeiron

If xeiron and Lio are correct, I'm going to have to vote for a pair of lovers no matter what. Xeiron and Lio are my top two scum reads, so it doesn't make sense for me to vote elsewhere

If they are incorrect, they're probably scum.

Even if they are correct about the set up, they could be a scum team
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #852 on: June 06, 2013, 08:43:22 pm »

I'm 90% sure there's at least 3 sets of lovers, 70% sure there's 4.

It's possible there's 3 sets, then sudgy/julia/silvia, and everyone is a lover.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #853 on: June 06, 2013, 08:43:44 pm »

From what you guys are saying, you've been playing a different game than me almost. And your game sounds like way more fun :(
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #854 on: June 06, 2013, 08:44:25 pm »

It sounds way cooler than it really is, I promise. Honestly, we don't have anything that's mod-confirmed.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #855 on: June 06, 2013, 08:44:36 pm »

Are we sure there's 2 scum teams?

And if there are, is that even true? I mean, a lot depends on the NKs -- scum could kill each other, scum could kill the same team...

Also, if you assume 2 scum teams, but only 1 person who's not on lover team, if you're assuming that they're scum, then you have unbalanced teams.

Your deductions don't add up..
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #856 on: June 06, 2013, 08:44:44 pm »

Let's slow down on the claiming lover / notlover.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea eventually, but let's think it through, ok?

So, say we have 4 sets of lovers, and 1 non-lover.

I'd be inclined to believe the non-lover was town, and that we have 2, heck maybe even 3, scum teams of lovers.

If we don't have 4 sets of lovers, that means that the information X and Lio gave us was bad. Now, this doesn't necessarily make them scummy, but man.

They seem to have gotten a LOT of information pre-game. Like, a list of information never seen before, I think. To be able to determine the setup of the game, AND be able to create a list of players that contains a scum? Crazy.

Is the amount of information you have going to increase over the course of the game, or did you get everything you're going to have pre-game?

We do not have information pregame. We deduce based on roles.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #857 on: June 06, 2013, 08:45:09 pm »

I'm 90% sure there's at least 3 sets of lovers, 70% sure there's 4.

It's possible there's 3 sets, then sudgy/julia/silvia, and everyone is a lover.

If this is true then Nkirbit is lying, so no, I doubt it
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #858 on: June 06, 2013, 08:45:25 pm »

Let's slow down on the claiming lover / notlover.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea eventually, but let's think it through, ok?

So, say we have 4 sets of lovers, and 1 non-lover.

I'd be inclined to believe the non-lover was town, and that we have 2, heck maybe even 3, scum teams of lovers.

If we don't have 4 sets of lovers, that means that the information X and Lio gave us was bad. Now, this doesn't necessarily make them scummy, but man.

They seem to have gotten a LOT of information pre-game. Like, a list of information never seen before, I think. To be able to determine the setup of the game, AND be able to create a list of players that contains a scum? Crazy.

Is the amount of information you have going to increase over the course of the game, or did you get everything you're going to have pre-game?

We do not have information pregame. We deduce based on roles.

On your roles, or on everyone else's roles?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #859 on: June 06, 2013, 08:45:53 pm »

Xeiron, why do you think we shouldn't role-claim? we're gonna get killed...

I think scum would know all lover-pairs by now.
They get an advantage during night. We have to lynch right today.
How would they know?  And why do you think there are 3 or 4 sets of lovers?
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #860 on: June 06, 2013, 08:45:57 pm »

Are we sure there's 2 scum teams?

And if there are, is that even true? I mean, a lot depends on the NKs -- scum could kill each other, scum could kill the same team...

Also, if you assume 2 scum teams, but only 1 person who's not on lover team, if you're assuming that they're scum, then you have unbalanced teams.

Your deductions don't add up..

I am thinking unbalanced teams, yes.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #861 on: June 06, 2013, 08:46:21 pm »

Wait, so let me get this straight -- apart from knowing you and Liopoil are lovers, you have not been able to use your power role yet????
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #862 on: June 06, 2013, 08:46:37 pm »

on our roles

I actually think there is probably only one scum team.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #863 on: June 06, 2013, 08:46:59 pm »

Also scum are really vulnerable if they are also lovers with each other.  It would be an interesting set up if scum from two different teams were lovers!
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #864 on: June 06, 2013, 08:47:29 pm »

no, we haven't done anything. Like we said, we don't have anything mod-confirmed. Seriously, if we tell you, you're gonna be disapointed.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #865 on: June 06, 2013, 08:47:53 pm »

Are we sure there's 2 scum teams?

And if there are, is that even true? I mean, a lot depends on the NKs -- scum could kill each other, scum could kill the same team...

Also, if you assume 2 scum teams, but only 1 person who's not on lover team, if you're assuming that they're scum, then you have unbalanced teams.

Your deductions don't add up..
I agree, there must be more we don't know behind their deductions.
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #866 on: June 06, 2013, 08:48:08 pm »

Xeiron, why do you think we shouldn't role-claim? we're gonna get killed...

I think scum would know all lover-pairs by now.
They get an advantage during night. We have to lynch right today.
How would they know?  And why do you think there are 3 or 4 sets of lovers?

You make the third set, no?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #867 on: June 06, 2013, 08:49:03 pm »

do you guys have day chat? or did you figure this all out N0?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #868 on: June 06, 2013, 08:49:12 pm »

I am damn disappointed, because that is NOT what Xeiron represented to us!

Vote: Xeiron

Xeiron grossly misled town, leading us dangerously close to a mass-claim territory.

If you do NOT have modconfirmed information, and have NOT used your power role, you just cannot be that vocal about what you Know when you don't actually know it.

I am frustrated, how can you be so certain when you have no more information than the rest of us?? You were making it VERY clear that you had more information.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #869 on: June 06, 2013, 08:50:14 pm »

I want you to reveal EVERYTHING you know. I will not trust anything less, you have misled town the entire past two days, tried to get Sudgy's partner to claimed, tried to get us to announce who is a lover and who isn't. I don't see how in the world this has been good for town.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #870 on: June 06, 2013, 08:50:18 pm »

do you guys have day chat? or did you figure this all out N0?
I see no reason this info should be public. We have a QT.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #871 on: June 06, 2013, 08:50:58 pm »

I want you to reveal EVERYTHING you know. I will not trust anything less, you have misled town the entire past two days, tried to get Sudgy's partner to claimed, tried to get us to announce who is a lover and who isn't. I don't see how in the world this has been good for town.
It hasn't, and it's unfortunate. I haven't been advocating this as much as Xeiron.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #872 on: June 06, 2013, 08:51:13 pm »

Are we sure there's 2 scum teams?

And if there are, is that even true? I mean, a lot depends on the NKs -- scum could kill each other, scum could kill the same team...

Also, if you assume 2 scum teams, but only 1 person who's not on lover team, if you're assuming that they're scum, then you have unbalanced teams.

Your deductions don't add up..

I am thinking unbalanced teams, yes.

Why?
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #873 on: June 06, 2013, 08:52:27 pm »

Are we sure there's 2 scum teams?

And if there are, is that even true? I mean, a lot depends on the NKs -- scum could kill each other, scum could kill the same team...

Also, if you assume 2 scum teams, but only 1 person who's not on lover team, if you're assuming that they're scum, then you have unbalanced teams.

Your deductions don't add up..

I am thinking unbalanced teams, yes.

Why?
Good question.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #874 on: June 06, 2013, 08:53:17 pm »

do you guys have day chat? or did you figure this all out N0?
I see no reason this info should be public. We have a QT.
Well it seems very implausible to me that you guys came to this level of agreement and conclusions N0, before there had been any interactions.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #875 on: June 06, 2013, 08:53:47 pm »

Xeiron, why do you think we shouldn't role-claim? we're gonna get killed...

I think scum would know all lover-pairs by now.
They get an advantage during night. We have to lynch right today.
How would they know?  And why do you think there are 3 or 4 sets of lovers?

You make the third set, no?
No.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #876 on: June 06, 2013, 08:53:55 pm »

Hold on. Lio, can you answer the question on unbalanced teams?  Surely it's something xeiron mentioned in your qt.  why did he think there are unbalanced teams?

Xeiron please do not answer this
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #877 on: June 06, 2013, 08:54:06 pm »

do you guys have day chat? or did you figure this all out N0?
I see no reason this info should be public. We have a QT.
Well it seems very implausible to me that you guys came to this level of agreement and conclusions N0, before there had been any interactions.
I disagree with Xeiron about a lot of this. He might very well be scum, but I'd rather not lynch him.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #878 on: June 06, 2013, 08:54:23 pm »

Vote Count Act I.XXIV:

sudgy (1): xeiron
xeiron (4): sudgy, raerae, nkirbit, Twistedarcher
Twistedarcher (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): liopoil

Not Voting (2): mail-mi, Eevee

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #879 on: June 06, 2013, 08:54:28 pm »

Lio, Xeiron: Please give me a yes/no answer.

Is there ANY reason your reads are better than anyone else's, apart from the fact that you know what each others' roles are?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #880 on: June 06, 2013, 08:54:57 pm »

Xeiron, why do you think we shouldn't role-claim? we're gonna get killed...

I think scum would know all lover-pairs by now.
They get an advantage during night. We have to lynch right today.
How would they know?  And why do you think there are 3 or 4 sets of lovers?

You make the third set, no?

Stop rolefishing!!!!
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #881 on: June 06, 2013, 08:56:07 pm »

I don't really understand why he thinks there's unbalanced teams. He thinks there's a pair of scum-lovers, or two scum who are each lovers with a townie, and a SK who loves nobody.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #882 on: June 06, 2013, 08:56:35 pm »

do you guys have day chat? or did you figure this all out N0?
I see no reason this info should be public. We have a QT.
Well it seems very implausible to me that you guys came to this level of agreement and conclusions N0, before there had been any interactions.
I disagree with Xeiron about a lot of this. He might very well be scum, but I'd rather not lynch him.
you disagree, but you know his line of reasoning.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #883 on: June 06, 2013, 08:56:45 pm »

i made a mistake claiming to not be a lover. No one else make the same mistake

Here's why:  if sudgy is in fact a lover, scum will try to kill his lover. If you are not a lover, scum can't get sudgy with you. We want to leave the list of potential sudgy partners as high as possible
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #884 on: June 06, 2013, 08:57:20 pm »

Lio, Xeiron: Please give me a yes/no answer.

Is there ANY reason your reads are better than anyone else's, apart from the fact that you know what each others' roles are?
No.

By the way, sorry xeiron, but I'm claiming.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #885 on: June 06, 2013, 08:57:38 pm »

Lio, Xeiron: Please give me a yes/no answer.

Is there ANY reason your reads are better than anyone else's, apart from the fact that you know what each others' roles are?
No, we base our reads on information in our role pm.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #886 on: June 06, 2013, 08:58:00 pm »

Lio:  what was he reasoning for picking sudgy-eevee-TA?

You have access to your qt, you should be able to answer these easily
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #887 on: June 06, 2013, 08:58:13 pm »

Lio, Xeiron: Please give me a yes/no answer.

Is there ANY reason your reads are better than anyone else's, apart from the fact that you know what each others' roles are?
No, we base our reads on information in our role pm.

That's what I'm asking!!!!!!

That WOULD be a reason your reads are better than ours!

What information did you have in your role pm?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #888 on: June 06, 2013, 08:59:35 pm »

I am a lover-cop. each night I may investigate two players and be told if they are lovers or not. Xeiron is a doctor, he may or may not have a limited number of shots.

Basically, we think from this that there's got to be at least 2 more lover-pairs for my role to be worth anything. I don't know why Xeiron exaggerated so much. That's bad, but not a reason to lynch him.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #889 on: June 06, 2013, 09:00:27 pm »

Lio:  what was he reasoning for picking sudgy-eevee-TA?

You have access to your qt, you should be able to answer these easily
He picked them because he thought everyone else was a lover except those three.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #890 on: June 06, 2013, 09:00:47 pm »

So, does your role actually have any utility for finding scum, Lio? It sounds like it doesn't have all that much...:/
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #891 on: June 06, 2013, 09:00:54 pm »

Lio:  what was he reasoning for picking sudgy-eevee-TA?

You have access to your qt, you should be able to answer these easily
He picked them because he thought everyone else was a lover except those three.

Based on....what?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #892 on: June 06, 2013, 09:01:31 pm »

That makes perfect sense with only one other pair of lovers. Real cop hits scum a third of the time or so. 2/7 seems like a reasonable number to be looking for
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #893 on: June 06, 2013, 09:01:49 pm »

Also, lover-cop sounds more helpful to scum than town.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #894 on: June 06, 2013, 09:02:18 pm »

well, it can catch people in a lie. Say the scumteam isn't lovers, but claim to love each other. I can catch them by finding out they aren't lovers.

based on everyone else speculating about lovers.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #895 on: June 06, 2013, 09:02:23 pm »

I am a doctor but I can only heal one kind of injury

The wording makes me think there is another kind of nk- meaning more than one scumteam
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #896 on: June 06, 2013, 09:02:40 pm »

I think the only other lover is sudgy/hit partner. Having a cop that hits over half the time makes no sense
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #897 on: June 06, 2013, 09:02:49 pm »

So, if Xeiron is REALLY a doctor, there's no way he's wanting Sudgy's partner to claim, right? That's now TWO people he has to protect.

I am 100% okay with this lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #898 on: June 06, 2013, 09:03:28 pm »

That makes perfect sense with only one other pair of lovers. Real cop hits scum a third of the time or so. 2/7 seems like a reasonable number to be looking for
No, the two people I name must love each other to get it to work. So I have a very low chance of finding a lover-pair without more info.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #899 on: June 06, 2013, 09:04:10 pm »

Oh, okay. I misread you.  Yeah, that would want more lovers
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #900 on: June 06, 2013, 09:04:23 pm »

He wanted me to check if they love each other, so sudgy can find his true love.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #901 on: June 06, 2013, 09:04:52 pm »

He wanted me to check if they love each other, so sudgy can find his true love.

But...why? What purpose does this have? Outting a lover just so you can confirm it, to what purpose?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #902 on: June 06, 2013, 09:04:59 pm »

but why sudgy-Eevee-TA? 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #903 on: June 06, 2013, 09:05:34 pm »

So, if Xeiron is REALLY a doctor, there's no way he's wanting Sudgy's partner to claim, right? That's now TWO people he has to protect.

I am 100% okay with this lynch.

I wanted everyone to claim to be not lovers with  sudgy, so we could catch him in a lie.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #904 on: June 06, 2013, 09:05:50 pm »

personally, I think the setup is:

2 town-town lover pairs
2 town-scum lover pairs
1 survivor.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #905 on: June 06, 2013, 09:05:59 pm »

How in the world did you manage to pick a lover for mail-mi?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #906 on: June 06, 2013, 09:06:32 pm »

He wanted me to check if they love each other, so sudgy can find his true love.
Who is "he"?  Xeiron?  Who are "they"?  sudgy and someone else?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #907 on: June 06, 2013, 09:06:42 pm »

He wanted me to check if they love each other, so sudgy can find his true love.

But...why? What purpose does this have? Outting a lover just so you can confirm it, to what purpose?
ask xeiron!

How in the world did you manage to pick a lover for mail-mi?
???
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #908 on: June 06, 2013, 09:06:48 pm »

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #909 on: June 06, 2013, 09:06:59 pm »

He wanted me to check if they love each other, so sudgy can find his true love.
Who is "he"?  Xeiron?  Who are "they"?  sudgy and someone else?
yes and yes
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #910 on: June 06, 2013, 09:07:39 pm »

How in the world did you manage to pick a lover for mail-mi?

Why mail-mi?  Are you joking or am I missing something?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #911 on: June 06, 2013, 09:07:46 pm »

but why sudgy-Eevee-TA?
I said before, because they were the only ones who speculated about lovers.

I don't support much of anything that Xeiron is saying, but I don't think that makes him scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #912 on: June 06, 2013, 09:07:59 pm »

What I figured with the sudgy TA eevee thing was that they were left after you made lover pairs. So me raerae mail mi and efhw were pairs somehow

May have misinterpreted
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #913 on: June 06, 2013, 09:08:34 pm »

Yeah, I misinterpreted or remembered wrong or something
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #914 on: June 06, 2013, 09:08:51 pm »

This is making me nuts.  Can we maybe hear the whole story from start to finish?  Asking these questions and getting partial answers is really frustrating.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #915 on: June 06, 2013, 09:09:24 pm »

What I figured with the sudgy TA eevee thing was that they were left after you made lover pairs. So me raerae mail mi and efhw were pairs somehow

May have misinterpreted
No, that's right. He thought you loved MM and EFHW loved raerae.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #916 on: June 06, 2013, 09:09:45 pm »

but why sudgy-Eevee-TA?
I said before, because they were the only ones who speculated about lovers.

I don't support much of anything that Xeiron is saying, but I don't think that makes him scum.
mail-mi was the first to bring it up.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #917 on: June 06, 2013, 09:09:50 pm »

The amount of misrepresenting Xeiron did about his role was awful. Town has no reason to lie like that.

Also, the goal of "catching Sudgy in a lie with his lover" through figuring out who Sudgy's lover was makes no sense. Why? Because Xeiron wanted to lynch Sudgy!! Reply #778 today! You can't want to lynch someone AND try to use Lio's cop on him!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #918 on: June 06, 2013, 09:10:42 pm »

What I figured with the sudgy TA eevee thing was that they were left after you made lover pairs. So me raerae mail mi and efhw were pairs somehow

May have misinterpreted
No, that's right. He thought you loved MM and EFHW loved raerae.

but why sudgy-Eevee-TA?
I said before, because they were the only ones who speculated about lovers.

Huh.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #919 on: June 06, 2013, 09:10:53 pm »

but why sudgy-Eevee-TA?
I said before, because they were the only ones who speculated about lovers.

I don't support much of anything that Xeiron is saying, but I don't think that makes him scum.
mail-mi was the first to bring it up.
sorry, that should be they were the only ones who DIDN'T speculate about lovers.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #920 on: June 06, 2013, 09:11:20 pm »

but why sudgy-Eevee-TA?
I said before, because they were the only ones who speculated about lovers.

I don't support much of anything that Xeiron is saying, but I don't think that makes him scum.
mail-mi was the first to bring it up.

Do you mean the only ones who didn't speculate about lovers?  Because I know I did.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #921 on: June 06, 2013, 09:11:29 pm »

but why sudgy-Eevee-TA?
I said before, because they were the only ones who speculated about lovers.

I don't support much of anything that Xeiron is saying, but I don't think that makes him scum.
mail-mi was the first to bring it up.
sorry, that should be they were the only ones who DIDN'T speculate about lovers.

I never said a word about lovers.  You're stumbling over yourself here.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #922 on: June 06, 2013, 09:12:15 pm »

This is making me nuts.  Can we maybe hear the whole story from start to finish?  Asking these questions and getting partial answers is really frustrating.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #923 on: June 06, 2013, 09:12:53 pm »

I'm still 100% okay with this lynch.

Nkirbit, I get the impression you are too, is that correct?

EFHW, how do you feel about it?

I suppose we should wait for Raerae and Eevee to come back...but man, there are so many things here that are NOT adding up!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #924 on: June 06, 2013, 09:13:17 pm »

but why sudgy-Eevee-TA?
I said before, because they were the only ones who speculated about lovers.

I don't support much of anything that Xeiron is saying, but I don't think that makes him scum.
mail-mi was the first to bring it up.
sorry, that should be they were the only ones who DIDN'T speculate about lovers.

I never said a word about lovers.  You're stumbling over yourself here.
maybe, idk, xeiron thought you did.

EFHW, look at my post right below yours.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #925 on: June 06, 2013, 09:13:21 pm »

I don't have anymore questions to ask at the moment.  I'm fine with that if Lio/Xeiron want to do that.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #926 on: June 06, 2013, 09:13:38 pm »

but why sudgy-Eevee-TA?
I said before, because they were the only ones who speculated about lovers.

I don't support much of anything that Xeiron is saying, but I don't think that makes him scum.
mail-mi was the first to bring it up.
sorry, that should be they were the only ones who DIDN'T speculate about lovers.

I never said a word about lovers.  You're stumbling over yourself here.

And sudgy said quite a lot about lovers.  This is messed up.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #927 on: June 06, 2013, 09:14:27 pm »

I'm still 100% okay with this lynch.

Nkirbit, I get the impression you are too, is that correct?

EFHW, how do you feel about it?

I suppose we should wait for Raerae and Eevee to come back...but man, there are so many things here that are NOT adding up!
Sure, what xeiron did was a mistake and probably anti-town. Why do you think he's SCUM? is not this crazy-play as scum?

do you think I'm scum?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #928 on: June 06, 2013, 09:14:38 pm »

but why sudgy-Eevee-TA?
I said before, because they were the only ones who speculated about lovers.

I don't support much of anything that Xeiron is saying, but I don't think that makes him scum.
mail-mi was the first to bring it up.
sorry, that should be they were the only ones who DIDN'T speculate about lovers.

I never said a word about lovers.  You're stumbling over yourself here.

It says in my notes that you did.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #929 on: June 06, 2013, 09:14:45 pm »

I agree with EFHW, I'd like to see a full explanation, all in one post, from Lio. And a second explanation, all in one post, from Xeiron.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #930 on: June 06, 2013, 09:15:13 pm »

I'm still 100% okay with this lynch.

Nkirbit, I get the impression you are too, is that correct?

EFHW, how do you feel about it?

I suppose we should wait for Raerae and Eevee to come back...but man, there are so many things here that are NOT adding up!
Yeah, I want to hear the story from start to finish, but I'm about ready to state intent to hammer.  This story has too many holes.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #931 on: June 06, 2013, 09:15:27 pm »

Yes, I'm am still okay with this lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #932 on: June 06, 2013, 09:16:10 pm »

if xeiron's scum, look at what he did:

if there's another team, they will surely kill him, as he is a doctor and can take me down too. If he survives then he is scummy too. And why even bring up the thing about 1 scum in a group of people?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #933 on: June 06, 2013, 09:16:36 pm »

I'm still 100% okay with this lynch.

Nkirbit, I get the impression you are too, is that correct?

EFHW, how do you feel about it?

I suppose we should wait for Raerae and Eevee to come back...but man, there are so many things here that are NOT adding up!
Sure, what xeiron did was a mistake and probably anti-town. Why do you think he's SCUM? is not this crazy-play as scum?

do you think I'm scum?

Let's go Shakespearean here.

You claimed Hero, he claimed Claudio.

I think you are Hero.
I think he's Don Juan.

From wikipedia:

Claudio’s feelings for Hero, Leonato's only daughter, are rekindled upon seeing her, and Claudio soon announces to Benedick his intention to court her. Benedick tries to dissuade his friend but is unsuccessful in the face of Don Pedro’s encouragement. While Benedick teases Claudio, Benedick swears that he will never get married. Don Pedro laughs at him and tells him that when he has found the right person he shall get married.
A masquerade ball is planned in celebration, giving a disguised Don Pedro the opportunity to woo Hero on Claudio’s behalf. Don John, "The Bastard" (Don Pedro's illegitimate brother), is a malcontent who uses this situation to get revenge on his brother Don Pedro by telling young Claudio that Don Pedro is wooing Hero for himself. Claudio becomes furious at Don Pedro and confronts him. The misunderstanding is quickly resolved and Claudio wins Hero's hand in marriage.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #934 on: June 06, 2013, 09:16:51 pm »

but why sudgy-Eevee-TA?
I said before, because they were the only ones who speculated about lovers.

I don't support much of anything that Xeiron is saying, but I don't think that makes him scum.
mail-mi was the first to bring it up.
sorry, that should be they were the only ones who DIDN'T speculate about lovers.

I never said a word about lovers.  You're stumbling over yourself here.

And sudgy said quite a lot about lovers.  This is messed up.

Sudgy gets special treatment because of him wanting to favorclaim right from the start.
Somthing lovers would not usually do.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #935 on: June 06, 2013, 09:17:05 pm »

Vote Count Act I.XXV:

sudgy (1): xeiron
xeiron (4): sudgy, raerae, nkirbit, Twistedarcher
Twistedarcher (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): liopoil

Not Voting (2): mail-mi, Eevee

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #936 on: June 06, 2013, 09:17:11 pm »

I'm still 100% okay with this lynch.

Nkirbit, I get the impression you are too, is that correct?

EFHW, how do you feel about it?

I suppose we should wait for Raerae and Eevee to come back...but man, there are so many things here that are NOT adding up!
Yeah, I want to hear the story from start to finish, but I'm about ready to state intent to hammer.  This story has too many holes.
Indeed it does. I think xeiron's reasoning is very flawed. That doesn't make him scum!
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Eevee

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #937 on: June 06, 2013, 09:17:45 pm »

Holy wtf, 10 new pages. I've drank some and then some, but I'll try to catch up tonight.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #938 on: June 06, 2013, 09:17:52 pm »

I agree with EFHW, I'd like to see a full explanation, all in one post, from Lio. And a second explanation, all in one post, from Xeiron.
To be posted simultaneously
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #939 on: June 06, 2013, 09:18:14 pm »

It says in my QT that he's claudio, and in my PM
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #940 on: June 06, 2013, 09:18:38 pm »

I'm still 100% okay with this lynch.

Nkirbit, I get the impression you are too, is that correct?

EFHW, how do you feel about it?

I suppose we should wait for Raerae and Eevee to come back...but man, there are so many things here that are NOT adding up!
Sure, what xeiron did was a mistake and probably anti-town. Why do you think he's SCUM? is not this crazy-play as scum?

do you think I'm scum?

Let's go Shakespearean here.

You claimed Hero, he claimed Claudio.

I think you are Hero.
I think he's Don Juan.

From wikipedia:

Claudio’s feelings for Hero, Leonato's only daughter, are rekindled upon seeing her, and Claudio soon announces to Benedick his intention to court her. Benedick tries to dissuade his friend but is unsuccessful in the face of Don Pedro’s encouragement. While Benedick teases Claudio, Benedick swears that he will never get married. Don Pedro laughs at him and tells him that when he has found the right person he shall get married.
A masquerade ball is planned in celebration, giving a disguised Don Pedro the opportunity to woo Hero on Claudio’s behalf. Don John, "The Bastard" (Don Pedro's illegitimate brother), is a malcontent who uses this situation to get revenge on his brother Don Pedro by telling young Claudio that Don Pedro is wooing Hero for himself. Claudio becomes furious at Don Pedro and confronts him. The misunderstanding is quickly resolved and Claudio wins Hero's hand in marriage.

Not possible. Our flavor names are mod-confirmed in our QT
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #941 on: June 06, 2013, 09:18:58 pm »

I agree with EFHW, I'd like to see a full explanation, all in one post, from Lio. And a second explanation, all in one post, from Xeiron.
To be posted simultaneously

Yes, ideally, but since that's impossible, I'd like to hear from Xeiron first.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #942 on: June 06, 2013, 09:19:30 pm »

man, I hope xeiron's scum :P
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #943 on: June 06, 2013, 09:19:54 pm »

I think these guys have day chat. 
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #944 on: June 06, 2013, 09:20:14 pm »

I agree with EFHW, I'd like to see a full explanation, all in one post, from Lio. And a second explanation, all in one post, from Xeiron.
To be posted simultaneously

I am posting from phone. I rather not make big cases.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #945 on: June 06, 2013, 09:20:24 pm »

I agree with EFHW, I'd like to see a full explanation, all in one post, from Lio. And a second explanation, all in one post, from Xeiron.
To be posted simultaneously

Yes, ideally, but since that's impossible, I'd like to hear from Xeiron first.
Not impossible, we set a time.  Or they both say they are ready and then post.
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #946 on: June 06, 2013, 09:20:41 pm »

man, I hope xeiron's scum :P

I am not
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #947 on: June 06, 2013, 09:20:49 pm »

remember:

my role does strongly suggest there are more lovers. This game will be very very short. ~2 days.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #948 on: June 06, 2013, 09:21:00 pm »

I agree with EFHW, I'd like to see a full explanation, all in one post, from Lio. And a second explanation, all in one post, from Xeiron.
To be posted simultaneously

I am posting from phone. I rather not make big cases.

And I'd rather not lynch town ;) So I recommend you defend yourself before we do
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #949 on: June 06, 2013, 09:21:15 pm »

I think these guys have day chat. 
so what if we do?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #950 on: June 06, 2013, 09:21:47 pm »

So you can get your stories straight.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #951 on: June 06, 2013, 09:22:09 pm »

I don't care about simultaneity.  I do believe they have a day chat.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #952 on: June 06, 2013, 09:22:13 pm »

I'd love to defend xeiron for him, except for all I know he might be scum. I don't think he is though. While I disagree with his play, I can't imagine him doing it as scum. I mean, what's his motive?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #953 on: June 06, 2013, 09:22:32 pm »

I think these guys have day chat. 
so what if we do?
And that's crazy powerful.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #954 on: June 06, 2013, 09:23:05 pm »

So you can get your stories straight.
...but we disagree.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #955 on: June 06, 2013, 09:23:36 pm »

I'd like to hear from TA/nkirbit why they think scum!X might do this.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #956 on: June 06, 2013, 09:23:59 pm »

So you can get your stories straight.
...but we disagree.
about the conclusions.  But it's your process that isn't adding up.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #957 on: June 06, 2013, 09:24:08 pm »

I'd love to defend xeiron for him, except for all I know he might be scum. I don't think he is though. While I disagree with his play, I can't imagine him doing it as scum. I mean, what's his motive?

To try and get out of being lynched.  He didn't make his semi-claim until it was pretty much down to just him and sudgy.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #958 on: June 06, 2013, 09:24:17 pm »

I'd love to defend xeiron for him, except for all I know he might be scum. I don't think he is though. While I disagree with his play, I can't imagine him doing it as scum. I mean, what's his motive?

Is Xeiron's role being Claudio mod-confirmed to you, or has he just said he's Claudio?
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #959 on: June 06, 2013, 09:25:15 pm »

modconfirmed. says in my PM and OP of QT.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #960 on: June 06, 2013, 09:26:40 pm »

Okay.  If lio and xeiron are a scum pair, this claim surely has the best chance of getting Xeiron out alive.  It's pretty clear from our attitudes before the claim (raerae saying she doesn't even want a claim, I was saying I want a claim but to most likely hammer afterwards) that Xeiron was going to get lynched.  This double claim made us discuss and think it, and there's a chance you get out of that.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #961 on: June 06, 2013, 09:26:51 pm »

I'm willing to lynch nkirbit just based on not being a lover. I think that means he's either a survivor or SK or member of scumteam. And if he's town, it's only one death, not two.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #962 on: June 06, 2013, 09:27:29 pm »

If Xeiron gets lynched and I'm still alive, by all means, lynch me.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #963 on: June 06, 2013, 09:27:41 pm »

I'd like to hear from TA/nkirbit why they think scum!X might do this.

Because he has another teammate who's not you, and he's trying to pick out every single lover pair to make their job much, much, much easier. Knowing everyone who's a lover and who's not? Cmon, that's just too easy for a scum team. Bad information to be out there for town.

He also waited to claim against Sudgy, and not against me.

He has been trying to get Sudgy's partner to claim.

His initial vote of me was silly and sheepy.

The worst to me, though, is he claimed having WAY more information than he did. I mean, he represented it as game-warping, confirmed information, when it's all just speculation that's no better than anyone else's reads. He misled town again and again and again, and he HAD to know what he was doing. Town shouldn't lie!!
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #964 on: June 06, 2013, 09:28:26 pm »

I'm willing to lynch nkirbit just based on not being a lover. I think that means he's either a survivor or SK or member of scumteam. And if he's town, it's only one death, not two.

Woah.  Xeiron himself had said he believed there were 3 non-lovers (Eevee, TA, Sudgy).  And now you're willing to lynch someone for not being on a lover team?  Seems a stretch.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #965 on: June 06, 2013, 09:29:18 pm »

I'm willing to lynch nkirbit just based on not being a lover. I think that means he's either a survivor or SK or member of scumteam. And if he's town, it's only one death, not two.

Could not disagree me. This is an utterly silly reason to lynch someone.

Nkirbit has made so much sense at the end of the day today. I really need to rethink my case from earlier, because he's been very scummy at the end of today. He was so reactive, but ugh, he's talking sense now.

Once again, you're rolefishing to see who's a lover and who's not a lover!
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #966 on: June 06, 2013, 09:29:31 pm »

disagree more**
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #967 on: June 06, 2013, 09:29:49 pm »

Do people believe our claim? well, I can pretty much prove we're lovers.

if we aren't lovers, then we must both be scum. That means that if Xeiron gets lynched I get lynch too, and we lose. Why include me in the claim? just claim cop or something!

I'm willing to lynch nkirbit just based on not being a lover. I think that means he's either a survivor or SK or member of scumteam. And if he's town, it's only one death, not two.
I disagree with xeiron.

Woah.  Xeiron himself had said he believed there were 3 non-lovers (Eevee, TA, Sudgy).  And now you're willing to lynch someone for not being on a lover team?  Seems a stretch.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #968 on: June 06, 2013, 09:30:06 pm »

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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #969 on: June 06, 2013, 09:30:16 pm »

Ugh, very towny, not very scummy. /e should proofread.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #970 on: June 06, 2013, 09:30:57 pm »

Do people believe our claim? well, I can pretty much prove we're lovers.

if we aren't lovers, then we must both be scum. That means that if Xeiron gets lynched I get lynch too, and we lose. Why include me in the claim? just claim cop or something!

I'm willing to lynch nkirbit just based on not being a lover. I think that means he's either a survivor or SK or member of scumteam. And if he's town, it's only one death, not two.


Woah.  Xeiron himself had said he believed there were 3 non-lovers (Eevee, TA, Sudgy).  And now you're willing to lynch someone for not being on a lover team?  Seems a stretch.
I disagree with xeiron.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #971 on: June 06, 2013, 09:31:13 pm »

Lio:  We would've lynched right through a cop-claim.  Almost certainly.  I don't know if EFHW and TA will agree with me, but that's my perception of the situation, and it was obvious.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #972 on: June 06, 2013, 09:32:04 pm »

Claiming "If you lynch me, we lose the game" is over-the-top. If we have four sets of lovers, if we lynch ANY of them, we would lose the game, by your logic.

Do you really think we have a game that starts out with a 8/9 chance of having the game end D1? No way.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #973 on: June 06, 2013, 09:32:20 pm »

Lio:  We would've lynched right through a cop-claim.  Almost certainly.  I don't know if EFHW and TA will agree with me, but that's my perception of the situation, and it was obvious.

Yes, I agree
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #974 on: June 06, 2013, 09:33:16 pm »

Lio:  We would've lynched right through a cop-claim.  Almost certainly.  I don't know if EFHW and TA will agree with me, but that's my perception of the situation, and it was obvious.
Well, that's still better than this if we're both scum and not lovers.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #975 on: June 06, 2013, 09:33:24 pm »

Are your lover roles completely traditional, or have some Ashersky twists been added?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #976 on: June 06, 2013, 09:34:19 pm »

My one hesitation about this situation is this:

If there's a lover team, it's much, much more likely to be consisted of town members, correct?  Unless there are two scum teams.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #977 on: June 06, 2013, 09:34:32 pm »

I wouldn't put it past Ashersky to lie to one person in the lover-set.
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #978 on: June 06, 2013, 09:35:01 pm »

I'm willing to lynch nkirbit just based on not being a lover. I think that means he's either a survivor or SK or member of scumteam. And if he's town, it's only one death, not two.

Woah.  Xeiron himself had said he believed there were 3 non-lovers (Eevee, TA, Sudgy).  And now you're willing to lynch someone for not being on a lover team?  Seems a stretch.

I belived there where 1-3nonlovers and that nkirbit, mail-mi, raerae and Efhw are all lovers (not neccesarily among themselves)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #979 on: June 06, 2013, 09:35:11 pm »

My one hesitation about this situation is this:

If there's a lover team, it's much, much more likely to be consisted of town members, correct?  Unless there are two scum teams.

I think the likeliest scenario is Xeiron is scum, Lio is town.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #980 on: June 06, 2013, 09:35:37 pm »

Claiming "If you lynch me, we lose the game" is over-the-top. If we have four sets of lovers, if we lynch ANY of them, we would lose the game, by your logic.

Do you really think we have a game that starts out with a 8/9 chance of having the game end D1? No way.
I'm not claiming if you lynch me or X it loses the game! It puts you at lylo I believe. That is, if X is town.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #981 on: June 06, 2013, 09:35:40 pm »

I wouldn't put it past Ashersky to lie to one person in the lover-set.

Is that BM, though?  Is that something that's possible in a RMM game?  If we ask Ash, will he answer?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #982 on: June 06, 2013, 09:36:31 pm »

I don't think Ashersky would lie.  It's not bastard.  Either xeiron or liopoil may have lied to the other one, I suppose. 

I am coming to the conclusion that this game has been designed to make many possible lynches problematic.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #983 on: June 06, 2013, 09:36:43 pm »

No lies in RMM. we are ordinary lovers, if one of us dies, so does the other.
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xeiron

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #984 on: June 06, 2013, 09:37:35 pm »

Are your lover roles completely traditional, or have some Ashersky twists been added?

We have a post restriction in our QT, thats why we have communication problems
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #985 on: June 06, 2013, 09:38:43 pm »

Are your lover roles completely traditional, or have some Ashersky twists been added?

We have a post restriction in our QT, thats why we have communication problems

Omg. Why is information still coming out??

Claim EVERYTHING. NOW.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #986 on: June 06, 2013, 09:39:11 pm »

Fine. Xeiron can post during the day, I can post at night.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #987 on: June 06, 2013, 09:40:03 pm »

Oh man, I'm going to enjoy reading that QT post-game.
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liopoil

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #988 on: June 06, 2013, 09:41:08 pm »

yeah, it's pretty annoying, I keep wanting to respond to him :(
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #989 on: June 06, 2013, 09:42:44 pm »

Makes sense for that to be scum, still.

Borrachio and Margaret spoiled Claudio and Hero's wedding during night. During the evening, they went upstairs to make love, with Margaret impersonating Hero. Claudio saw this from outside, and believed Margaret to be Hero, ruining his betrothal to Hero.

Wondering if this makes sense in the context of Night/Day chat. Claudio and Hero's only interactions happened during the day. Their wedding was ruined at night.

This seems like it would make sense thematically for them to be scum, or for at least one of them to be scum.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #990 on: June 06, 2013, 09:43:35 pm »

(btw its a really funny play that everyone should take the time to read, it's pretty short too)
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #991 on: June 06, 2013, 09:44:14 pm »

I agree with TA.  I'm very dissatisfied with Xeiron.  He has been misleading us, and I thought he had more information than just the fact that there is a lovercop.  As a town you want to be as truthful as possible, and Xeiron has not been doing that.  He's been downright deceitful at times.

Waiting to hear EFHW and Eevee's reading of the situation.

If we somehow back off from this, raerae would be my #1 target.  But I'm fine supporting this lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #992 on: June 06, 2013, 09:47:00 pm »

There's a myth about a situation like that.

Wikipedia on the movie Ladyhawke: The two lovers are doomed to lifelong separation by a demonic curse invoked by the corrupt and jealous Bishop of Aquila: by day Isabeau is transformed into a hawk, while at night Navarre becomes a wolf.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #993 on: June 06, 2013, 09:48:37 pm »

There's a myth about a situation like that.

Wikipedia on the movie Ladyhawke: The two lovers are doomed to lifelong separation by a demonic curse invoked by the corrupt and jealous Bishop of Aquila: by day Isabeau is transformed into a hawk, while at night Navarre becomes a wolf.

Interesting, but there's nothing like that in the play.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #994 on: June 06, 2013, 09:49:18 pm »

yes xeiron, I am aware.

EFHW, what do you think of this situation?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #995 on: June 06, 2013, 09:50:18 pm »

vote: nkirbit

Can anyone explain to me a setup with two different nightkills that does not start in d1 lylo and does  include a single as town?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #996 on: June 06, 2013, 09:50:30 pm »

yes xeiron, I am aware.

EFHW, what do you think of this situation?

Xeiron -- if you're town -- what POSSIBLE reason do you have for writing to Lio in the QT, but not in the forums.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #997 on: June 06, 2013, 09:51:18 pm »

should you lynch us today, please massclaim tommorow. You will need to solve the whole set-up then, so it is neccessary.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #998 on: June 06, 2013, 09:52:05 pm »

Eevee I hope you finish your re-read soon, I would love your input.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #999 on: June 06, 2013, 09:52:38 pm »

Xeiron -- if you're town -- what POSSIBLE reason do you have for writing to Lio in the QT, but not in the forums.
ummm, because he has a townread on me, but not you all.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1000 on: June 06, 2013, 09:52:46 pm »

vote: nkirbit

Can anyone explain to me a setup with two different nightkills that does not start in d1 lylo and does  include a single as town?

Where do you get the idea of 2 nightkills?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1001 on: June 06, 2013, 09:54:20 pm »

vote: nkirbit

Can anyone explain to me a setup with two different nightkills that does not start in d1 lylo and does  include a single as town?

Assuming four lover teams:

A + B :  Scumteam A
C + D:  Scumteam B
E + F:  Town A
G + H: Town B
I: Town

Day one, we mislynch, kill E + F.  It's possible that the two scum teams kill each other and the game's over, and town wins.

There's any number of possibilities.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1002 on: June 06, 2013, 09:54:24 pm »

yes xeiron, I am aware.

EFHW, what do you think of this situation?

Xeiron -- if you're town -- what POSSIBLE reason do you have for writing to Lio in the QT, but not in the forums.

Talking about stuff that should not be revealed to scum. Thats why you have QT, no?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1003 on: June 06, 2013, 09:55:22 pm »

vote: nkirbit

Can anyone explain to me a setup with two different nightkills that does not start in d1 lylo and does  include a single as town?

Where do you get the idea of 2 nightkills?

From me being a doctor saving against only one kind.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1004 on: June 06, 2013, 09:56:43 pm »

Well, it would have been better before we outed Nkirbit as not being part of a lover-pair....I don't know what reason we had for claiming lover/non-lover. It would have been good if we believed Xeiron's setup beliefs about this game, but I have no reason to believe Xeiron's setup beliefs over my own.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)ö
« Reply #1005 on: June 06, 2013, 09:57:09 pm »

okay I just finished page 34 and realized I'm too tired to get through all of it today. I can continue reading in 8 hours when I wake up, but if I'm needed for something before that, sunmarize what it is and I'll try my best to contribute. new posts are coming in like crazy, so I assume something is up.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1006 on: June 06, 2013, 09:57:18 pm »

Vote Count Act I.XXVI:

xeiron (4): sudgy, raerae, nkirbit, Twistedarcher
Twistedarcher (1): EFHW
EFHW (1): liopoil
nkirbit (1): xeiron

Not Voting (2): mail-mi, Eevee

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1007 on: June 06, 2013, 09:58:53 pm »

Well, it would have been better before we outed Nkirbit as not being part of a lover-pair....I don't know what reason we had for claiming lover/non-lover. It would have been good if we believed Xeiron's setup beliefs about this game, but I have no reason to believe Xeiron's setup beliefs over my own.

Are you saying you have set up beliefs?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)ö
« Reply #1008 on: June 06, 2013, 09:59:33 pm »

okay I just finished page 34 and realized I'm too tired to get through all of it today. I can continue reading in 8 hours when I wake up, but if I'm needed for something before that, sunmarize what it is and I'll try my best to contribute. new posts are coming in like crazy, so I assume something is up.

Xeiron - Lio claimed lovers. QT, Xeiron can post at day, Lio at night. Lio is a lover-cop - put 2 people together, get yes/no on whether they're lovers. Xeiron is a doctor, unknown how many shots.

Xeiron at L-1. Several people don't believe, Xeiron has lied about his information, misled town, tried to out Sudgy's lover partner, tried to get everyone to claim lover/nonlover.

They claim 4 sets of lovers in game, possibly 3, but definitely at least this many. Sooo much setup speculation that we thought was much firmer than it is, when really they have nothing.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1009 on: June 06, 2013, 10:00:14 pm »

Well, it would have been better before we outed Nkirbit as not being part of a lover-pair....I don't know what reason we had for claiming lover/non-lover. It would have been good if we believed Xeiron's setup beliefs about this game, but I have no reason to believe Xeiron's setup beliefs over my own.

Are you saying you have set up beliefs?

Slight slight slight beliefs, but I'd NEVER use them as firm evidence in a lynch unless they were actually firm beliefs.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1010 on: June 06, 2013, 10:01:12 pm »

Well, Vote: Nkirbit I guess because he's a better lynch than xeiron

Consider this:

Don't lynch us today. We use our PRs, and tommorow if we aren't dead reconsider. We will likely be dead.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1011 on: June 06, 2013, 10:01:20 pm »

Eevee - Liopoil and xeiron have claimed lovers, where Lio is a lover-cop (he can choose two people and ask if they are lovers with each other) and Xeiron is a partial doctor - there is one kind of injury he can heal, another he presumably cannot.  The problem is they have told us their story in dribs and drabs with a number of contradictions and we are having a hard time believing it.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1012 on: June 06, 2013, 10:02:04 pm »

the only contradictions are in xeiron's reasoning, that's it. EFHW is still my top suspect.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1013 on: June 06, 2013, 10:02:54 pm »

Vote Count Act I.XXVII:

xeiron (4): sudgy, raerae, nkirbit, Twistedarcher
Twistedarcher (1): EFHW
nkirbit (2): xeiron, liopoil

Not Voting (2): mail-mi, Eevee

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Act I ends on June 11 at 8:30 p.m.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1014 on: June 06, 2013, 10:03:04 pm »

Well, Vote: Nkirbit I guess because he's a better lynch than xeiron

Consider this:

Don't lynch us today. We use our PRs, and tommorow if we aren't dead reconsider. We will likely be dead.

Toooo scummy. We have no use of verifying that you actually used the PRs you say you have.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1015 on: June 06, 2013, 10:03:20 pm »

but why sudgy-Eevee-TA?
I said before, because they were the only ones who speculated about lovers.

I don't support much of anything that Xeiron is saying, but I don't think that makes him scum.
mail-mi was the first to bring it up.
sorry, that should be they were the only ones who DIDN'T speculate about lovers.

I never said a word about lovers.  You're stumbling over yourself here.

And sudgy said quite a lot about lovers.  This is messed up.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1016 on: June 06, 2013, 10:05:15 pm »

EFHW, what are you trying to say? yes, lots of contradictions there. I am explaining xeiron's reasoning, and yes, it doesn't make sense because of the reasons in those quotes. The only contradictions are in xeiron's reasoning.

I think EFHW is scum wanting to be off wagon and letting this lynch go through. If she's town I think she either defends us or hammers us.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1017 on: June 06, 2013, 10:06:39 pm »

What are your reads on everyone, Lio?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1018 on: June 06, 2013, 10:07:28 pm »

Okay, still 6 pages behind but atm willing to support lynching xeiron.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1019 on: June 06, 2013, 10:08:20 pm »

04 am here.
I am going to sleep now.
Hopefully we are still alive tomorrow. If not.

Nkirbit, sudgy and raerae are my scumreads
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1020 on: June 06, 2013, 10:09:34 pm »

I should add that the flavor name for my role is "matchmaker", which is a little weird.

scum to town:

EFHW
sudgy
nkirbit
raerae
mail-mi
eevee
xeiron
twistedarcher
liopoil
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1021 on: June 06, 2013, 10:09:47 pm »

hold on.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1022 on: June 06, 2013, 10:13:03 pm »

I'm gonna copy and paste a couple posts from our QT to clarify.


"That role would be pretty pointless if there where no other lovers out there.
It make more sense i there are at least two more, as my role could then be useful.

Assumption 1: There are at least 3 lover couples in this game.

Then I started thinking about the setup:

Assumption 2: We do not start in mylo
Assumption 3: We cannot lynch all mafia in one lynch.

I have nothing to confirm this is true, but in my mind a balanced rmm game should have at least one night before the game is over.

In the start of this game, a lot of people where theory-talking about lovers (EFHW, mail-mi, nkirbit, raerae, lio and sudgy).
Sudgy also had this post where he wanted to flavor-claim. I thought lovers would not do so.

Assumption 4. EFHW, mail-mi, nkirbit and raerae are all lovers with someone.
my theory is (EFHW, Raerae), and (nkirbit, mail-mi). I will investigate this further tonight.


Ok, so if you combine assumption 2, 3, and 4. What Mafia-setups is possible.
1. 2 single mafia + 3 town couples + 1 single town = 2 of (sudgy, eevee, TA) is scum
2. 1 single mafia + 3town couples + 1 scum-town-couple = at least 1 of (sudgy,eevee,TA) is scum
3. 2 scum-town-couples + 1 single sk + 2 town couples = at least 1 of (sudgy,eevee,TA) is scum

Anyhow you look at this this, at least one scum is not a lover, and (sudgy,eevee,TA) is where to find them."

"Let us give everyone names:

A1 - A2 -- Lovers

B1 - B2 -- Lovers

C1 - C2 -- Lovers

D1- D2 - D3 -- D1 is lover with D2 or D3
___________________
A1 = xeiron
A2 = Liopoil
D1 = Sudgy.

I think
B1 = nkirbit
B2 = mail-mi
C1 = EFHW
C2 = Raerae
D2 = eevee
D3 = TA

It is also possible that
B2 = eevee
D2 = mail-mi"

"OK what about this setup.

a1, a2, b1, b2, c1, c2 = town.

D2 = mafiateam1, D3 = mafiateam2, D1 = Sudgy = survivor/traitor and will join and become lover with whichever of D2 or D3 who survives the longest.

D2 and D3 kills differently, witch would explain our special doctoring (only sick people)"
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1023 on: June 06, 2013, 10:13:30 pm »

those are all xeiron quotes.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1024 on: June 06, 2013, 10:14:04 pm »

I should add that the flavor name for my role is "matchmaker", which is a little weird.

scum to town:

EFHW
sudgy
nkirbit
raerae
mail-mi
eevee
xeiron
twistedarcher
liopoil

Hero as "Matchmaker" makes NO sense.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1025 on: June 06, 2013, 10:15:09 pm »

and I'm leaving now. Don't lynch xeiron, but if you do, good luck town. I'll be back in the morning.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1026 on: June 06, 2013, 10:15:29 pm »

I should add that the flavor name for my role is "matchmaker", which is a little weird.

scum to town:

EFHW
sudgy
nkirbit
raerae
mail-mi
eevee
xeiron
twistedarcher
liopoil

Hero as "Matchmaker" makes NO sense.
weird.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1027 on: June 06, 2013, 10:16:36 pm »

Those look like town posts from xeiron.  Man, this is tough
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1028 on: June 06, 2013, 10:17:30 pm »

At least I don't think. She gets matched up with Claudio. I don't think she has any part in matching up Beatrix and Benedict (that was Ursula?). But let me go read the wikipedia page.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1029 on: June 06, 2013, 10:18:25 pm »

Oh I may be wrong about that. What was Claudio's role named?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1030 on: June 06, 2013, 10:21:08 pm »

Playing matchmaker, Don Pedro, Leonato and Claudio decide to try to make ever the bachelor Benedick fall in love with Beatrice, equally opposed to any nuptials. Hero too gets in on the act, helping to matchmake with the aide of her waiting women

So I was wrong about Hero. Hm. She def wasn't the main matchmaker, though.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1031 on: June 06, 2013, 10:23:02 pm »

I had not seen anything convincing until those last series of posts. But they look like town detective work by xeiron.  I'm not sure what to do.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1032 on: June 06, 2013, 10:24:12 pm »

The only contradictions are in xeiron's reasoning.

That's enough to raise a lot of questions.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1033 on: June 06, 2013, 10:26:59 pm »

those are all xeiron quotes.
then why does he say "I will investigate these [possible lovers] tonight"?  I thought you were the lover cop.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1034 on: June 06, 2013, 10:29:30 pm »

I'm gonna copy and paste a couple posts from our QT to clarify.


"That role would be pretty pointless if there where no other lovers out there.
It make more sense i there are at least two more, as my role could then be useful.

Assumption 1: There are at least 3 lover couples in this game.

Then I started thinking about the setup:

Assumption 2: We do not start in mylo
Assumption 3: We cannot lynch all mafia in one lynch.

I have nothing to confirm this is true, but in my mind a balanced rmm game should have at least one night before the game is over.

In the start of this game, a lot of people where theory-talking about lovers (EFHW, mail-mi, nkirbit, raerae, lio and sudgy).
Sudgy also had this post where he wanted to flavor-claim. I thought lovers would not do so.

Assumption 4. EFHW, mail-mi, nkirbit and raerae are all lovers with someone.
my theory is (EFHW, Raerae), and (nkirbit, mail-mi). I will investigate this further tonight. (NOTE - this is CLEARLY not pregame!!)


Ok, so if you combine assumption 2, 3, and 4. What Mafia-setups is possible.
1. 2 single mafia + 3 town couples + 1 single town = 2 of (sudgy, eevee, TA) is scum
2. 1 single mafia + 3town couples + 1 scum-town-couple = at least 1 of (sudgy,eevee,TA) is scum
3. 2 scum-town-couples + 1 single sk + 2 town couples = at least 1 of (sudgy,eevee,TA) is scum

Anyhow you look at this this, at least one scum is not a lover, and (sudgy,eevee,TA) is where to find them."

"Let us give everyone names:

A1 - A2 -- Lovers

B1 - B2 -- Lovers

C1 - C2 -- Lovers

D1- D2 - D3 -- D1 is lover with D2 or D3
___________________
A1 = xeiron
A2 = Liopoil
D1 = Sudgy.

I think
B1 = nkirbit
B2 = mail-mi
C1 = EFHW
C2 = Raerae
D2 = eevee
D3 = TA

It is also possible that
B2 = eevee
D2 = mail-mi"

"OK what about this setup.

a1, a2, b1, b2, c1, c2 = town.

D2 = mafiateam1, D3 = mafiateam2, D1 = Sudgy = survivor/traitor and will join and become lover with whichever of D2 or D3 who survives the longest.

D2 and D3 kills differently, witch would explain our special doctoring (NOTE: not MY special doctoring)(only sick people)"
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1035 on: June 06, 2013, 10:29:50 pm »

Another lie.

EFHW, please hammer.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1036 on: June 06, 2013, 10:30:30 pm »

Ugh.  I really don't want to mess up.  Eevee still there?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1037 on: June 06, 2013, 10:30:36 pm »

Okay, wow, that does look like a wild contradiction.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1038 on: June 06, 2013, 10:31:08 pm »

Lio was clearly, clearly, clearly lying about not being able to talk during the day. Or Xeiron was lying about his role. One of the other, it's still a lie.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1039 on: June 06, 2013, 10:33:21 pm »

I think the hammer is in order
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1040 on: June 06, 2013, 10:34:06 pm »

I have found xeiron scummy from the beginning.  I'm hammer-shy because of pirates.  But ok, intent to hammer .... (will wait a few minutes for any last protests)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1041 on: June 06, 2013, 10:35:05 pm »

I guess we should wait for Eevee, if he's still catching up? Other than that, go for it.

There have been enough lies and contradictions that I can't see them being town.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1042 on: June 06, 2013, 10:35:30 pm »

Eevee's offline, I say go for it
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1043 on: June 06, 2013, 10:40:48 pm »

If you're scum we'll have some settling up to do!  But I'm the only one left to do this since Eevee has gone, mail-mi is vla and Liopoil clearly won't.

vote: xeiron
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1044 on: June 06, 2013, 10:41:53 pm »

I feel good about this.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1045 on: June 06, 2013, 10:42:08 pm »

I'll be so shocked if they're not scum. So much lying and misdirection..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1046 on: June 06, 2013, 10:43:19 pm »

Thread locked.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1047 on: June 06, 2013, 10:44:43 pm »

Final Vote Count Act I:

xeiron (5): sudgy, raerae, nkirbit, Twistedarcher, EFHW
nkirbit (2): xeiron, liopoil

Not Voting (2): mail-mi, Eevee

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1048 on: June 06, 2013, 10:49:57 pm »

Sigh no more, ladies, sigh no more,
Men were deceivers ever,-
One foot in sea and one on shore,
To one thing constant never.


The nine who had gathered here today
Decided amongst themselves the worst
And pointed, strongly, as if to say
It must be him, or her, to die first.
And so with angered fists raised high
They all together grappled with the low
Low victim saddened by the demise nigh
Coming to end a life with a resounding blow.
And so eyes shut for the final time upon
A fading light on stricken face and yawn.


xeiron has been lynched.  He was Hero, Matchmaker and Pen Pal Lover.

Upon seeing her body, liopoil, distraught with a broken heart, committed suicide.  He was Claudio, 2-Shot Poison Doctor and Pen Pal Lover.

Night 1 has begun.

Night will last ~48 hours.

All night actions are due to all mods within 24 hours.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1049 on: June 08, 2013, 10:59:02 pm »

Some Cupid kills with arrows, some with traps.



When everyone awoke from the sorrowful night
There was awaiting them an unhappy sight
For there lay nkirbit, cold, still, in his bed
Seemingly not breathing, seemingly dead
Tears shed and cries wailed moved his body not
Not one finger moved, not one shake on his cot
And so the rest decided, they need continue on
To find the culprits among them, to avenge those now gone


Act II has begun.  Thread unlocked.

Deadline information to follow.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1050 on: June 08, 2013, 10:59:54 pm »

Vote Count Act II.I:

Not Voting (6): Eevee, EFHW, Twistedarcher, sudgy, mail-mi, raerae

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Act II ends on June 20th at 7:00 p.m.

You have 9 days and 20 hours in the bank.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1051 on: June 08, 2013, 11:03:52 pm »

No flip? Weird.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1052 on: June 08, 2013, 11:04:35 pm »

Ugh. So I'm frustrated at Lio and Xeiron. I'd lynch them again 1000 times. We caught them in a bunch of lies and misdirection, and yet they turned out to be town. I was so sure that we had caught scum in a lie...
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1053 on: June 08, 2013, 11:05:03 pm »

Going to assume Nkirbit's town, but it's really weird that his flip didn't reveal. I guess I was wrong about my D1 case :/

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1054 on: June 08, 2013, 11:09:05 pm »

No flip? Weird.
Frustrating.  I wonder if he's like Romeo - seems dead but isn't.  When Juliet dies, he'll come back awake, then suicide.  The quotation suggests "cupid" killed him. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1055 on: June 08, 2013, 11:09:22 pm »

FoS at EFHW. She completely caught them in a lie, and if I were in her shoes, I would have immediately hammered. Yet it seems that she was waiting for confirmation from a town member for the hammer, and made sure to say how hesitant she was. I'm suspicious that she knew she was hammering town, and therefore made sure to let everyone know how hesitant she was.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1056 on: June 08, 2013, 11:09:49 pm »

Ugh. So I'm frustrated at Lio and Xeiron. I'd lynch them again 1000 times. We caught them in a bunch of lies and misdirection, and yet they turned out to be town. I was so sure that we had caught scum in a lie...
That last lie we caught them in seemed like a clincher.  Town really shouldn't lie.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1057 on: June 08, 2013, 11:12:07 pm »

FoS at EFHW. She completely caught them in a lie, and if I were in her shoes, I would have immediately hammered. Yet it seems that she was waiting for confirmation from a town member for the hammer, and made sure to say how hesitant she was. I'm suspicious that she knew she was hammering town, and therefore made sure to let everyone know how hesitant she was.

How fast is immediate?  14 minutes doesn't seem long to me.  And I was wrong.  Should have hesitated longer, it turns out.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1058 on: June 08, 2013, 11:12:25 pm »

No flip? Weird.
Frustrating.  I wonder if he's like Romeo - seems dead but isn't.  When Juliet dies, he'll come back awake, then suicide.  The quotation suggests "cupid" killed him.

Maybe he's poisoned? Since we had a poison doctor, seems reasonable that we'd have a poisoner. From mafiascum:

Quote
A Poisoner can target a player to kill them. However, this kill will take place at the end of the next Night. Thus, the poisoned player can get one more Day and Night of actions out. The advantage to this is that a kill via poison cannot be stopped, except by the fairly rare Poison Doctor.

So, not EXACTLY the same implementation. But maybe he's poisoned, and if Lio/X (whichever one was the poison doctor, seriously, I can't remember ><) had cured him, he would have come back to life.

Or maybe he's just dead and there's some weird don't reveal the flip power.

I think we should assume he's town and we're at MYLO, though.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1059 on: June 08, 2013, 11:13:56 pm »

mylo on D2?  That's rough.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1060 on: June 08, 2013, 11:14:48 pm »

mylo on D2?  That's rough.

Well, losing 2 townies at once is rough :(

Assuming 2 scum...

4 town/2 scum

Mislynch 3 town/2 scum
NK 2 town/2 scum
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1061 on: June 08, 2013, 11:15:05 pm »

And that's not factoring lover-shenanigans, either...
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1062 on: June 08, 2013, 11:17:00 pm »

Quote
A Poisoner can target a player to kill them. However, this kill will take place at the end of the next Night. Thus, the poisoned player can get one more Day and Night of actions out. The advantage to this is that a kill via poison cannot be stopped, except by the fairly rare Poison Doctor.
So, not EXACTLY the same implementation. But maybe he's poisoned, and if Lio/X (whichever one was the poison doctor, seriously, I can't remember ><) had cured him, he would have come back to life.

Or maybe he's just dead and there's some weird don't reveal the flip power.
If he's not really dead yet, that could explain the lack of flip.  Maybe the poison doctor could have tried to save him tonight.  But it does say 6 are alive, so IDK.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1063 on: June 08, 2013, 11:18:05 pm »

Can we talk about the obvious?  Claimed lover is still alive...
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1064 on: June 08, 2013, 11:18:53 pm »

Can we imagine any scenario where nkirbit is scum?

That means that scum kill missed, AND we have a Vig or something, AND there's a weird role that hides flips.

It seems unlikely, but I think a flip-hidding role IS more likely scum than town...
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1065 on: June 08, 2013, 11:19:45 pm »

Another question is - was he the scum nightkill or some other kind of kill. 

PPE: I see you are thinking along the same lines.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1066 on: June 08, 2013, 11:21:09 pm »

Can we talk about the obvious?  Claimed lover is still alive...

Maybe scum presumed a doctor and wanted to be safe?

But, odd that they chose someone who was a claimed non-lover...

Wouldn't scum try to shoot for Sudgy's lover (presuming Sudgy is town) in the TA/Raerae/Eevee/EFHW/mail-mi group? Assuming 2 scum, that's 1/3 chance, and it's not like the downside is that greater than killing Nkirbit.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1067 on: June 08, 2013, 11:22:13 pm »

Can we talk about the obvious?  Claimed lover is still alive...

True, Sudgy lives.  We were expecting him to be the target.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1068 on: June 08, 2013, 11:22:25 pm »

How do we feel about claiming? I mean, it's nice to keep it secret, but we can't take for granted that we'll have another day..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1069 on: June 08, 2013, 11:23:50 pm »

Can we talk about the obvious?  Claimed lover is still alive...

Maybe scum presumed a doctor and wanted to be safe?

But, odd that they chose someone who was a claimed non-lover...

Wouldn't scum try to shoot for Sudgy's lover (presuming Sudgy is town) in the TA/Raerae/Eevee/EFHW/mail-mi group? Assuming 2 scum, that's 1/3 chance, and it's not like the downside is that greater than killing Nkirbit.
The flip would have helped a lot.  Maybe he was lightening rod or bodyguard or something like that.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1070 on: June 08, 2013, 11:24:02 pm »

Kermit wasn't obvtown either.  Especially with the slapfest you two had yesterday.  Doesn't make sense. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1071 on: June 08, 2013, 11:25:10 pm »

I think only people with helpful information should claim.  Even then, if they have shots left it might be better to hold off at least until later in the day when we see how things are shaping up.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1072 on: June 08, 2013, 11:25:25 pm »

Can we talk about the obvious?  Claimed lover is still alive...

True, Sudgy lives.  We were expecting him to be the target.

I don't want to give him a pass at all. I think we should definitely re-look at Sudgy. But we shouldn't jump to "Sudgy is instantly scum!" Avoiding the obvious kill definitely has its merits for scum, especially in a game where everyone's a PR...very easy for the kill to be blocked or caught in some way on an obvious target.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1073 on: June 08, 2013, 11:26:00 pm »

NO CLAIMING!!!!!!  Damn, it's role madness, we all have cool crap we can do and we can debate the hell out of what power is better for scum vs. town but that doesn't help.  Let's just try to find the scum, shall we?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1074 on: June 08, 2013, 11:26:53 pm »

Kermit wasn't obvtown either.  Especially with the slapfest you two had yesterday.  Doesn't make sense.

Right. I don't think anyone was even close to obvtown, though. I would have been looking hard at Nkirbit again today. Blah no flip is confusing.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1075 on: June 08, 2013, 11:31:44 pm »

Ugh. I wish I could assume Nkirbit was town, but...

I just think it's WAY more likely that scum would have an alignment hiding role than a townie. That's awful for a town member to have that role, but great for a scum to be able to remain hidden. And I can't imagine a scum killer having that role regardless N1 -- for such a short game -- that's way way way powerful, to the point where I can't imagine it being in a game...Meh.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1076 on: June 08, 2013, 11:33:56 pm »

No flip? Weird.
Frustrating.  I wonder if he's like Romeo - seems dead but isn't.  When Juliet dies, he'll come back awake, then suicide.  The quotation suggests "cupid" killed him.
Oops, got that backwards.  nkirbit would be Juliet, who took a potion that made her seem dead.  Then Romeo finds her, takes poison and dies.  Then she wakes up, sees him actually dead, the poison all gone, and stabs herself with his dagger.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1077 on: June 08, 2013, 11:35:22 pm »

Ugh. I wish I could assume Nkirbit was town, but...

I just think it's WAY more likely that scum would have an alignment hiding role than a townie. That's awful for a town member to have that role, but great for a scum to be able to remain hidden. And I can't imagine a scum killer having that role regardless N1 -- for such a short game -- that's way way way powerful, to the point where I can't imagine it being in a game...Meh.
I think there is no flip because he isn't dead. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1078 on: June 08, 2013, 11:36:20 pm »

No flip? Weird.
Frustrating.  I wonder if he's like Romeo - seems dead but isn't.  When Juliet dies, he'll come back awake, then suicide.  The quotation suggests "cupid" killed him.
Oops, got that backwards.  nkirbit would be Juliet, who took a potion that made her seem dead.  Then Romeo finds her, takes poison and dies.  Then she wakes up, sees him actually dead, the poison all gone, and stabs herself with his dagger.

Maybe, but nkirbit claimed not-lover
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1079 on: June 08, 2013, 11:39:40 pm »

Well, it was a secret relationship :P

I'll be interested to hear what the others have to say.  'night for now.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1080 on: June 08, 2013, 11:57:23 pm »

Ugh. I wish I could assume Nkirbit was town, but...

I just think it's WAY more likely that scum would have an alignment hiding role than a townie. That's awful for a town member to have that role, but great for a scum to be able to remain hidden. And I can't imagine a scum killer having that role regardless N1 -- for such a short game -- that's way way way powerful, to the point where I can't imagine it being in a game...Meh.
I think there is no flip because he isn't dead.

Yeah, I think this is the case more likely. So we're looking for a poisoner. There are both good and evil shakespeare characters who could fit that role, ugh.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1081 on: June 09, 2013, 12:11:42 am »

Well, nkirbit was definitely a big townread for me, but it's very weird scum chose to kill the only guy who explicitly claimed not to be a lover. Like, even if you don't for one reason or another want to kill sudgy, why pick nkirbit? I find it doubtful that both scum just forgot..

So I have no idea.

I think nkirbit was probably town. Scum being able to janitor their kills is more likely to me than scum missing and some other role killing one of them that just happens to have a modifier that hides their flip.

We need to lynch scum today no matter what. I think that includes claiming stuff if need be. I'd really want to not take a shot in the dark.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1082 on: June 09, 2013, 12:17:00 am »

Well, nkirbit was definitely a big townread for me, but it's very weird scum chose to kill the only guy who explicitly claimed not to be a lover. Like, even if you don't for one reason or another want to kill sudgy, why pick nkirbit? I find it doubtful that both scum just forgot..

So I have no idea.

I think nkirbit was probably town. Scum being able to janitor their kills is more likely to me than scum missing and some other role killing one of them that just happens to have a modifier that hides their flip.

We need to lynch scum today no matter what. I think that includes claiming stuff if need be. I'd really want to not take a shot in the dark.

What exactly do you propose claiming?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1083 on: June 09, 2013, 12:22:21 am »

Information any of us might have that would help us to lynch scum. Not saying I have or don't have any.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1084 on: June 09, 2013, 12:23:20 am »

Keeping in kind that mylo is an exceptionally opportune time to fakeclaim for scum. Yes, I just said it.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1085 on: June 09, 2013, 12:40:40 am »

If anyone has any useful information, I think they should bring it forward. We shouldn't massclaim without a reason, though.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1086 on: June 09, 2013, 12:41:42 am »

As for Sudgy's claim...it is possible that he claimed lover with no partner? I mean, I'd want to verify his claim, as the character he claimed is prettyyy scummy...but I don't want to out the second lover, either, if she really exists.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1087 on: June 09, 2013, 12:42:54 am »

We either have a missing kill (normal), or poisoning is the only method of killing for scum. That would actually balance out the abundance of lover pairs. This would also make nkirbit town for sure.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1088 on: June 09, 2013, 12:44:28 am »

Alright raerae, say that I whispered to you.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1089 on: June 09, 2013, 12:49:11 am »

Oh! I completely forgot that Sudgy got to whisper someone!!!

Awesome!

I'm assuming that since Raerae didn't say anything yet that means she didn't get a whisper (or is trying to frame Sudgy).

Excellent!!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1090 on: June 09, 2013, 12:53:29 am »

Oh! I completely forgot that Sudgy got to whisper someone!!!

Awesome!

I'm assuming that since Raerae didn't say anything yet that means she didn't get a whisper (or is trying to frame Sudgy).

Excellent!!

I whispered her to tell everybody that I could whisper (after I told people I whispered her, that's why she hasn't said anything yet).
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1091 on: June 09, 2013, 12:55:42 am »

If Raerae claims to not have gotten the whisper, we should have Sudgy's lover claim to confirm, right? And then we've got either Raerae is scum vs. Sudgy AND his lover being scum.

Unless we've got a scum roleblocker who roleblocked Sudgy.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1092 on: June 09, 2013, 12:56:06 am »

Oh! I completely forgot that Sudgy got to whisper someone!!!

Awesome!

I'm assuming that since Raerae didn't say anything yet that means she didn't get a whisper (or is trying to frame Sudgy).

Excellent!!

Ok, cool. Hopefully she'll claim to have gotten it.

I whispered her to tell everybody that I could whisper (after I told people I whispered her, that's why she hasn't said anything yet).
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1093 on: June 09, 2013, 12:56:41 am »

Oops, fixed

Oh! I completely forgot that Sudgy got to whisper someone!!!

Awesome!

I'm assuming that since Raerae didn't say anything yet that means she didn't get a whisper (or is trying to frame Sudgy).

Excellent!!

I whispered her to tell everybody that I could whisper (after I told people I whispered her, that's why she hasn't said anything yet).

Ok. Cool, hopefully she'll claim to have gotten it.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1094 on: June 09, 2013, 01:02:41 am »

Yeah, I got it.  I don't understand why you were explicit about you claiming before I do though.  Can you explain that?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1095 on: June 09, 2013, 01:08:24 am »

Yeah, I got it.  I don't understand why you were explicit about you claiming before I do though.  Can you explain that?

Some people were afraid that I could agree with some random person.  But, now that I think about it, some random person wouldn't claim to get a whisper...  Oh well, it doesn't matter much.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1096 on: June 09, 2013, 01:10:59 am »

Yeah, I got it.  I don't understand why you were explicit about you claiming before I do though.  Can you explain that?

Some people were afraid that I could agree with some random person.  But, now that I think about it, some random person wouldn't claim to get a whisper...  Oh well, it doesn't matter much.

I didn't have the opportunity to communicate with you.  What do you mean "agree"?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1097 on: June 09, 2013, 01:22:06 am »

Say, for some reason, some random dude said, "I got a whisper from sudgy!" when he didn't.  Scum!sudgy could say, "um, oh yeah, I did whisper you!" without ever whispering to anybody.  Now, the problem is that nobody other than another scum would say they got a whisper from me.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1098 on: June 09, 2013, 03:21:35 am »

So, I've been thinking some on this...

Lio-X had the lover-cop power. While we got on their case for this, it DOES seem strange to have that power included if the only lovers included were Lio-Xeiron and Sudgy-unknown. Therefore, we can make the same assumption that Lio-X made, that there's 3 sets of lovers.

With this knowledge, lover-cop is pretty powerful. A positive result nails scum.

If there weren't scum in lover pairs, would there be a lover-cop included? Seems to not have all that much utility.

What we know: Nkirbit claimed non-lover. Nkirbit was the night kill. Sudgy doesn't know who his partner is.

What is there are two scum, and they're BOTH one-half of an unknown-lover pair. Sudgy is one scum, doesn't know who his lover is. Someone else is another scum, and also doesn't know who their lover is.

This would completely explain the Nkirbit kill. He's the one person who came out and claimed non-lover. Scum would be wary of possibly targetting their partners -- out of the remaining players (Mail-mi, Eevee, Raerae, EFHW, myself (one of these would be scum)), they have a 50% chance of hitting a scum partner if they aim blindly. But by killing (or poisoning) nkirbit, they have a 0% chance of hitting their scum partner.

This is solely set-up speculation, and not based off of reads of people, but this would make sense, and go along with the Nkirbit night kill. Also makes sense in terms of game balance, and the game not ending too quickly either way.

Setup would be:

Lio-Xeiron (lovers, town)
Sudgy (scum)-unknown (town)
unknown (scum) - unknown (town)
Nkirbit (town)
Unknown (town)
Unknown (town)

Probably not true, of course. One problem is that it becomes far too easy for the town part of the scum-town lover pairs to claim to sacrifice themselves. Perhaps one of the solo unknowns would also be scum in that case?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1099 on: June 09, 2013, 03:22:28 am »

Oops, second paragraph should be like the fifth paragraph in the thing above
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1100 on: June 09, 2013, 09:51:12 am »

Either the whispering thing is legit, or raerae and sudgy are scum partners.  I kind of doubt they would go to all this trouble to confirm a non-existent power and and along the way create an association between them in our minds, so the whispering is probably true.  I don't really see what that gets us, though.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1101 on: June 09, 2013, 12:40:58 pm »

Sudgy and mail-mi would be my two top scum candidates.  mail-mi has gotten more than a week reprieve.  Time to start stepping up!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1102 on: June 09, 2013, 12:45:43 pm »

I agree with EFHW, mail-mi has been painfully absent (even outside of v/la) so let's apply a little pressure.

Vote: mail-mi
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1103 on: June 09, 2013, 01:40:28 pm »

Ugh, so I started a reread post of sudgy and it turned into one of those giant posts I abhor so I'm summarizing.  I have quotes if anybody is interested.

Second post of the game is to ask if we should flavor claim.  Takes a wishy washy stance on it saying it hasn't done much good or bad.  We all know how I feel about that so...yeah, moving on.

Starts and participates in a lovers conversation...then wonders why we're even talking about lovers.  Sudgy, please explain your though process here.

Sudgy voted for kermit simply by agreeing with TA's case on him.  I had just asked sudgy why a vote on kermit was better than a vote on lio or mail-mi.  He says he doesn't remember the lio case yet explains it in the same post.  Says he doesn't remember much pushing for lio when he put lio at L-1.5.  Ugh, I have to quote this one.  Then, in response to this, he ONLY address the mail-mi vote by saying it was for pressure.  Doesn't address the lio section at all.

I haven't noticed much pushing towards lio, if you could, could you bring up a case or something on him?

Also, the only against lio was him not answering the questions.  While that was somewhat scummy, I nkirbit has more for him than lio does.


Here, I just pulled up your vote on mail-mi and your almost vote on lio.  The cases against them cases were remarkably similar.  Why was one a good vote and not the other?  Also, what do you mean you haven't noticed much pushing for lio?  Did you miss that part of the game where he was at L-2 with practically everybody ready to vote for him?


Mail-mi said he would answer raerae's question but hasn't.  Vote: mail-mi.

I was going to vote liopoil, but then you guys said he was at L-2, so I'll Vote: liopoil for now (not a real vote).  I agree that "missing" questions like that is pretty scummy.

So, lio, could you come in here and say something?

This is stupid, I shouldn't even bring it up but after Pirates I can't get it out of my head.  Sudgy says I'm his top townread but nobody ever reads me strongly as town other than my boyfriend and scum.  This isn't evidence by any means but it's my head so it had to come out.

He repeatedly misrepresents my scum performance in Bankers by saying I was super lurky.  I don't know if this is buddying or misremembering or a simple exaggeration but it also doesn't sit well with me. 

At one point he points a finger at xeiron claiming he's looking for the easiest lynch which is basically what sudgy's been doing all game.  Kettle, pot, all that jazz.

And then his claim.  Nothing scummy or townie about that.

That basically sums up D1 sudgy. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1104 on: June 09, 2013, 01:43:36 pm »

So what conclusions do you draw from that summary?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1105 on: June 09, 2013, 01:46:44 pm »

So what conclusions do you draw from that summary?

Still mulling it over, leaning scum though.  Want to hear from mail-mi before I get too serious.

What conclusions do you draw from that summary?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1106 on: June 09, 2013, 01:48:36 pm »

Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1107 on: June 09, 2013, 01:54:21 pm »

Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.

Seriously?  Seriously??  That's what you come out with?  You've been away from a flipping week and THAT is where you start?  Good gravy.  Please give some thoughts on D1.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1108 on: June 09, 2013, 01:55:14 pm »

Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.

I have reason to believe this, as well.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1109 on: June 09, 2013, 01:55:30 pm »

Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.

Seriously?  Seriously??  That's what you come out with?  You've been away from a flipping week and THAT is where you start?  Good gravy.  Please give some thoughts on D1.
That was what I was just barely reading. I'll get to that in a bit.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1110 on: June 09, 2013, 02:40:20 pm »

Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.

Do you mean that this isn't the scumkill, or that the scumkill was weakened somehow?

If it's not the scumkill, then what other kind of role do you think is out there with a nightkill/nightpoison action?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1111 on: June 09, 2013, 02:41:15 pm »

Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.

I have reason to believe this, as well.

If you have reason to believe this, then why were you doing all that speculating earlier as if you didn't know?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1112 on: June 09, 2013, 03:09:09 pm »

Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.

I have reason to believe this, as well.

If you have reason to believe this, then why were you doing all that speculating earlier as if you didn't know?

I have reason to believe I could have happened but not as to if it did. If mail mi is certain is happened I could probably explain how.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1113 on: June 09, 2013, 03:24:30 pm »

TA, what do you think about sudgy, you haven't answered that question yet.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1114 on: June 09, 2013, 03:38:41 pm »

I don't know. I didn't think he was scummy yesterday but he's near the top of my list for today.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1115 on: June 09, 2013, 03:44:12 pm »

So mail-mi's partial info and TA's response are raising some questions I want to pose to everyone - Do we need to know what happened with the nightkill last night?  Would that change how we look for scum?  For example, does it make a difference in how we play if nkirbit is really dead or is not really dead?

What question would be important enough that someone possessing the answer should come forward?  I know we want information that rules out or points at specific players.  Anything else?

One difference I can see at the moment that the unknown information could make is that we may not actually be at mylo.  But playing as if we are at mylo seems like it wouldn't hurt us.

Another purpose of claiming would be trying to catch people in inconsistencies, since scum would be fakeclaiming.  Instead of partial claiming in dribs and drabs, let's keep information to ourselves unless we collectively decide to massclaim.  Look at the mess we got in with xeiron and lio.

Can anyone else think of circumstances in which certain information would be helpful and should be shared now?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1116 on: June 09, 2013, 03:44:45 pm »

I don't know. I didn't think he was scummy yesterday but he's near the top of my list for today.
What changed?  This shift just happened overnight?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1117 on: June 09, 2013, 03:56:02 pm »

So mail-mi's partial info and TA's response are raising some questions I want to pose to everyone - Do we need to know what happened with the nightkill last night?  Would that change how we look for scum?  For example, does it make a difference in how we play if nkirbit is really dead or is not really dead?

What question would be important enough that someone possessing the answer should come forward?  I know we want information that rules out or points at specific players.  Anything else?

One difference I can see at the moment that the unknown information could make is that we may not actually be at mylo.  But playing as if we are at mylo seems like it wouldn't hurt us.

Another purpose of claiming would be trying to catch people in inconsistencies, since scum would be fakeclaiming.  Instead of partial claiming in dribs and drabs, let's keep information to ourselves unless we collectively decide to massclaim.  Look at the mess we got in with xeiron and lio.

Can anyone else think of circumstances in which certain information would be helpful and should be shared now?

I don't think kermit's sort of kill makes a difference in scum-hunting.  At least not for me.  Either kermit's dead or he'll be back, we can analyze him at that time.  I'm most concerned with the people still active today.

I'm still against claiming until absolutely necessary until you have something concrete.  All of this, "I think I might maybe know something sort of" is really the opposite of helpful in my mind.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1118 on: June 09, 2013, 06:53:58 pm »

Raerae, the only things I feel like I need to say about in your big post, is that I was wanting discussion on whether we should flavorclaim.  Recently in other games we've been saying we should, but it hasn't worked well.  I was trying to finally decide one way or the other for sure.  Then I joined the lovers conversation because a few ideas just popped in my head, then I realized it might not be a good idea.

Also, in every game we've played together that you were town other than RMM7, I've had a town read on you.


I've thought of looking at mail-mi as well, I'll reread him and post thoughts on him later today.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1119 on: June 09, 2013, 08:19:54 pm »

Raerae did a case on sudgy, so here’s mine on mail-mi:

He starts out with his first post after RVS raising the question of lovers.  He was the first to do so.  Why isn’t he worried about being nightkilled when he basically broadcasts that he has lovers on his mind? 
Romeo and Juliet: lovers?
Chimes in later that evening. 
Kewl with soft deadline.
We don’t hear from him again until 24 hours later, where he mildly challenges raerae.
She challenges him back, saying he didn’t answer her question about xeiron and nkirbit.
Does town!raerae or scum!raerae usually ask more questions?
Does town!mail-mi or scum!mail-mi usually avoid my questions?
mail-mi, I challenge you to do something more than agree with the SD.  What are your thoughts on xeiron and nkirbit?
Oh missed that. Currently going to a movie, answer when on a computer.

TWO DAYS later, we hear from him again, a telegraphic note answering the question but with very little content. 
On mobile so not a full post, but here goes:
Nkirbit: Has a good number of posts with townie content. Mostly town read.
Xeiron: has a really low post count, slight scum read just because of the lurking.
The next day, one comment supporting nkirbit again, with nothing else to say but a mild noncommittal  speculation on Liopoil.
I have... no idea who to lynch. I have a few ideas of who not to lynch, tho. First, me. Second, nkirbit. I think he's acting very townie and we would be stupid to lynch him.
Lio, maybe a lynch. I just don't know.

FOUR DAYS later, with no intervening posts, pops in to support sudgy.
 
Really fast reply before the Internet goes bad: I think this is town sudgy.

THREE DAYS later, again no intervening posts, one unhelpful comment that nkirbit is not really dead, then gone again, says he’ll be back in a bit.  It’s been 6 hours, no word from him.  This comment again seems dangerous if he isn’t scum.  He’s basically advertising some kind of power role that relates to the nightkill.
Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.
Seriously?  Seriously??  That's what you come out with?  You've been away from a flipping week and THAT is where you start?  Good gravy.  Please give some thoughts on D1.
That was what I was just barely reading. I'll get to that in a bit.

This level of non-involvement goes way beyond v/la.  mail-mi is showing a complete lack of interest in finding scum, which makes me think that’s because he is one of them.  When he does post, he reveals information that would seem to be inviting a nightkill, yet he was not killed last night.  Why did he come on just to say sudgy is town and then disappear again?  Maybe because he is sudgy’s lover and doesn’t want sudgy to be lynched.  Since sudgy’s claim of lover saved him from being lynched, sudgy was also a logical target for last night, but not if his lover was scum.

Now, since my other main scum candidate is sudgy himself, I have to wonder if they are a team.  I don't know, and I don't see my two top reads as mutually exclusive or mutually reinforcing.  I would be comfortable voting for either of them. 

Since a wagon has started on mail-mi, I'll Vote: mail-mi.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1120 on: June 09, 2013, 08:48:39 pm »

EFHW, that case seems way too convenient to me. Basically, your entire case is that he hasn't been around -- but we know that he's been V/LA. I think scum mail-mi would be more concerned with getting some posts in when he's had time, actually.

I'd guess mail-mi is town this game.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1121 on: June 09, 2013, 08:53:24 pm »

I don't know. I didn't think he was scummy yesterday but he's near the top of my list for today.
What changed?  This shift just happened overnight?

A lot of it is based on setup speculation..the more I've thought about it, I just don't think his claim was that towny.

How many times have we had someone claim mason/lover WITHOUT their partner confirming it? I would assume that in almost every case, where it's town/town, both partners claim, as Xeiron and Lio did. Now, it's a little iffy because of Sudgy's weird claim, but I just think it's fairly likely that he's scum, either by himself or as part of a scum-town lover pair.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1122 on: June 09, 2013, 08:56:19 pm »

People voting for mail-mi: STOP.  I'm pretty sure we're in mylo at this point, and we don't want scum quickhammering suddenly.

Also, EFHW, I haven't seen you saying anything about me being scum.  When did you get a scumread on me?

PPE: The reason my lovers aren't claiming is because if they do one of us will get NKed.  Not claiming is a lot safer.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1123 on: June 09, 2013, 09:04:28 pm »

I'll look at this tomorrow, don't have much energy tonight. Right now, though I'd either want to lynch Sudgy or take a closer look at EFHW.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1124 on: June 09, 2013, 09:11:31 pm »

Vote Count Act II.II:

mail-mi (2): raerae, EFHW

Not Voting (4): Eevee, Twistedarcher, sudgy, mail-mi

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Act II ends on June 20th at 7:00 p.m.

You have 9 days and 20 hours in the bank.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1125 on: June 09, 2013, 09:15:35 pm »

EFHW, that case seems way too convenient to me. Basically, your entire case is that he hasn't been around -- but we know that he's been V/LA.

He was v/la Monday through Friday.  The game started the previous Tuesday.  Today he has not been any kind of presence.  And when he does post, there is very little content.  I don't see how that's convenient for me.  I would prefer he was playing actively and contributing as a town member.  But he isn't.  Also sudgy's survival overnight and his defense of sudgy (without any discussion, of course) and his hint that he is a lover all come together to suggest him as sudgy's scum lover.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1126 on: June 09, 2013, 09:20:42 pm »

Also, EFHW, I haven't seen you saying anything about me being scum.  When did you get a scumread on me?
You don't remember my being about to hammer you when you claimed?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1127 on: June 09, 2013, 09:26:26 pm »

Also, EFHW, I haven't seen you saying anything about me being scum.  When did you get a scumread on me?
You don't remember my being about to hammer you when you claimed?

Things changed after my claim.  A lot of people were saying that I shouldn't be lynched anymore, and I was just assuming that that's what everybody thought, since I didn't see anybody still saying a scumread on me.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1128 on: June 09, 2013, 09:30:21 pm »

Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.
I have reason to believe this, as well.
If you have reason to believe this, then why were you doing all that speculating earlier as if you didn't know?
I have reason to believe I could have happened but not as to if it did. If mail mi is certain is happened I could probably explain how.
This still bothers me.  It means you were not being straightforward in your speculations earlier.  Now I know people have information they need to keep quiet about, and I'm not jumping to any conclusions, but the contrast between your earlier apparent confusion and current confidence does make me worry that the earlier comments were strategy and not genuine questions. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1129 on: June 09, 2013, 09:31:34 pm »

Also, EFHW, I haven't seen you saying anything about me being scum.  When did you get a scumread on me?
You don't remember my being about to hammer you when you claimed?

Things changed after my claim.  A lot of people were saying that I shouldn't be lynched anymore, and I was just assuming that that's what everybody thought, since I didn't see anybody still saying a scumread on me.
That wasn't my impression.  In fact, as it became likely that there were more lovers in the picture, your lover status became less of a protection and people were talking about lynching you anyway.  I'll see if I can find the quote.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1130 on: June 09, 2013, 09:37:17 pm »

Here is the series of quotes:

I believe his claim, but that doesn't make him town...
and this. Even if Sudgy isn't town, his lover probably is.
If we cannot lynch scum if their lover is town.
How do you plan to win?
If we think Sudgy is scum, it's worth lynching him, even if a town member dies with him.
But I don't think Sudgy is scum

Looking back, I see liopoil and xeiron were the strongest proponents of this course, so it makes sense that it died down with their deaths.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1131 on: June 09, 2013, 09:42:31 pm »

I don't know. I didn't think he was scummy yesterday but he's near the top of my list for today.
What changed?  This shift just happened overnight?

A lot of it is based on setup speculation..the more I've thought about it, I just don't think his claim was that towny.

How many times have we had someone claim mason/lover WITHOUT their partner confirming it? I would assume that in almost every case, where it's town/town, both partners claim, as Xeiron and Lio did. Now, it's a little iffy because of Sudgy's weird claim, but I just think it's fairly likely that he's scum, either by himself or as part of a scum-town lover pair.
I'm not saying I'm pro-sudgy, but we explicitly told his lover NOT to claim.  So the lack of claim can't reflect on him either way.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1132 on: June 09, 2013, 10:12:53 pm »

Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.

Seriously?  Seriously??  That's what you come out with?  You've been away from a flipping week and THAT is where you start?  Good gravy.  Please give some thoughts on D1.
Okay. Next post
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1133 on: June 09, 2013, 11:48:29 pm »

Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.

Seriously?  Seriously??  That's what you come out with?  You've been away from a flipping week and THAT is where you start?  Good gravy.  Please give some thoughts on D1.
Okay. Next post

What are you doing?  Do you not even want to be in this game? 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1134 on: June 09, 2013, 11:53:54 pm »

People voting for mail-mi: STOP.  I'm pretty sure we're in mylo at this point, and we don't want scum quickhammering suddenly.

Also, EFHW, I haven't seen you saying anything about me being scum.  When did you get a scumread on me?

PPE: The reason my lovers aren't claiming is because if they do one of us will get NKed.  Not claiming is a lot safer.

One of you???
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1135 on: June 10, 2013, 12:22:40 am »

People voting for mail-mi: STOP.  I'm pretty sure we're in mylo at this point, and we don't want scum quickhammering suddenly.

Also, EFHW, I haven't seen you saying anything about me being scum.  When did you get a scumread on me?

PPE: The reason my lovers aren't claiming is because if they do one of us will get NKed.  Not claiming is a lot safer.

One of you???

One of me or them.  With just me, some doctor could potentially save me.  With two, they wouldn't know which would get saved.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1136 on: June 10, 2013, 10:05:55 am »

Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.

Seriously?  Seriously??  That's what you come out with?  You've been away from a flipping week and THAT is where you start?  Good gravy.  Please give some thoughts on D1.
Okay. Next post

What are you doing?  Do you not even want to be in this game?
I think he means he'll give his thoughts in his next post. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1137 on: June 10, 2013, 01:11:00 pm »

Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.
I have reason to believe this, as well.
If you have reason to believe this, then why were you doing all that speculating earlier as if you didn't know?
I have reason to believe I could have happened but not as to if it did. If mail mi is certain is happened I could probably explain how.
This still bothers me.  It means you were not being straightforward in your speculations earlier.  Now I know people have information they need to keep quiet about, and I'm not jumping to any conclusions, but the contrast between your earlier apparent confusion and current confidence does make me worry that the earlier comments were strategy and not genuine questions.

No, I WAS being straightforward in my speculation earlier. I had some reason to believe that no NK happened, but nothing concrete. However, if it didn't happen, I may be able to explain why.

I re-read my posts from today -- I don't see anything that changes even given the information. I was trying to figure out if Nkirbit is scum or not. What posts seem like strategy rather than genuine questions?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1138 on: June 10, 2013, 01:40:30 pm »

Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.

Seriously?  Seriously??  That's what you come out with?  You've been away from a flipping week and THAT is where you start?  Good gravy.  Please give some thoughts on D1.
Okay. Next post

What are you doing?  Do you not even want to be in this game?

Sorry, i was in the middle of my readthrough and i had to get off. I'm starting again, tho.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1139 on: June 10, 2013, 02:07:49 pm »

Here's a summary of detail since Eevee came back:

Initially, he made Sudgy and Xeiron two of his biggest scum reads. Xeiron was scummy because of the lurker, and then coming in with a scummy opinion on the TA-Nkirbit argument (Eevee's opinion).

We get close to the soft deadline, and Xeiron and Sudgy emerge as the top two candidates. Xeiron soft-claims, and Eevee seems to believe it. Soon afterwards, Eevee makes this post:

Sudgy is going to flip town, I think.
I think Xeiron is town.

EHFW is actually my top suspect for flipping scum, but it's sort of late to start building a late from a scratch.

After Xeiron's soft-claim, but before Sudgy's claim, Eevee believes that Xeiron is town. He also says that our lynch today should be either Xeiron or Sudgy, and no one else.

After Sudgy's claim, Eevee decides that Xeiron should claim as well, and that Sudgy shouldn't be the lynch target.

xeiron please claim before going to sleeps.

Despite his earlier town read, and no information changing on Xeiron (the only thing new was Sudgy's claim), Eevee says he now has intention of lynching Xeiron.

Liopoil, I want xeiron to claim because I have intention of lynching him.


Now, does Sudgy's claim give enough information to switch Xeiron's read? I don't think it should -- if you believed Xeiron's softclaim to be true, and from a towny, before Sudgy's claim, Sudgy's claim shouldn't change anything about that. Yet Eevee went from thinking Xeiron was town to being willing to lynch Xeiron, and wanting Xeiron to claim.

The only defense I can see from Eevee's side is the idea that we NEED a lynch ASAP, and we decided it was going to be Xeiron or Sudgy, and since we shouldn't lynch Sudgy after his claim, we must lynch Xeiron. But is that enough to overturn a town-read on a player (which Eevee had on Xeiron?) I wouldn't ever push the lynch on someone I have a town read on unless it's close to the hard deadline -- even with a soft deadline, I'd be pushing another case (EFHW probably in Eevee's shoes, since he thinks she is most likely to flip scum).

FoS to Eevee for switching from having a town read on Xeiron to being willing to lynch Xeiron and asking for a claim.

Rereading and I found this on Eevee from TA. I really like it, and the fact that Eevee's been lurking (a lot) leads me to a vote: Eevee I'll go look for some more stuff.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1140 on: June 10, 2013, 02:18:03 pm »

I know I do, but does Eevee usually do mostly one liners?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1141 on: June 10, 2013, 02:52:07 pm »

I'm going to go ahead and Vote: EFHW

D1, early on, EFHW was pretty unremarkable. Voted X for his random vote on Nkirbit, talked about theory, but nothing that really struck me as either towny or scummy. She has mail-mi as her top town read, solely for lurking.

The first thing that stuck out at me is that after delaying, she jumped ahead and voted me for my case, without really understanding what my case was. The final thing that tipped the balance for her was that I said "I think the fact you're attempting to discredit my case rather than defend yourself speaks volumes, as well." Now, I can get someone disagreeing with this, but using that sentence as justification to vote me? It wasn't really out of line with anything I had been saying, and I had been pushing nkirbit HARD, but it seemed like a flimsy reason, as if she was trying to find a reason to join in on my wagon and get the lynch going.

Yet, despite voting me, she says in #458:

Quote

Now, this does not mean I find TA the scummiest, and I am not going to argue for a TA lynch today.

She states that she finds Sudgy and Xeiron scummier than she finds me.

Despite finding Sudgy scummy, she never gets around to placing her vote on him.

Once it's clear post-claim Sudgy will not get lynched, there's a point where Xeiron only has 2 votes, yet she hesitates to place her vote on him. However, in #768, after being prompted to vote again, she returns to place her vote on TA, not Xeiron, who she stated she had found scummier. She also avoided voting Xeiron until the hammer.

Finally, after Xeiron and Lio's claim, she pushes them hard, pointing out the contradictions in their case. Yet she is still hesitant to lynch. She makes sure that she has both mine and nkirbit's backing for a hammer, before she goes through. The fact that she was so hesitant, in the face of the obvious contradictions/lies of Xeiron/Lio, read scummy rather than towny to me. Towny, looking at those lies, would have thought that we definitely had caught scum (it's what I thought).

Today, she has a case on mail-mi. The case occurred after Raerae had opened the day voting Mail-mi for lurking. The case even names mail-mi - sudgy as a scum team, solely on the basis of mail-mi saying he thinks Sudgy is town. This case is extremely flimsy to me -- mail-mi's lurking, yes, and it's fine to vote to apply pressure, as Raerae did, but to build a case entirely based on lurking, especially when we know he's been V/LA? It just seems too easy and convenient to me, and I'm not buying it.

I also find it suspicious that I was a scum read to her yesterday, and she voted for me twice, yet she jumped back on mail-mi rather than on me. My suspicion is that this is because I haven't really been under any pressure today, and my lynch would probably be one of the harder ones to push. So she wants to go for mail-mi, who would be an easier mislynch today.

Case in short: EFHW found an arbitrary reason to vote TA after many others already had, didn't vote Sudgy despite a scum-read, made sure she only voted Xeiron after she had permission from TA and nkirbit, despite having brought up an obvious lie herself, and brought up a flimsy case on mail-mi today based solely on lurking, despite the fact that I was a larger scum read to her yesterday than mail-mi was.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1142 on: June 10, 2013, 02:52:39 pm »

Raerae, can we get your reads now? Or will we have to wait until the end of D2? :(
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1143 on: June 10, 2013, 02:54:57 pm »

I have quotes as well, but trying to make my cases more readable -- let me know if you want quotes / post numbers.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1144 on: June 10, 2013, 03:25:22 pm »

Since I'm not quite sure what to do at the moment, I'm going to reread everyone and say what I think about them:

Eevee: Only thing that jumps out at me is his willingness to blitz, which I find slightly scummy since it makes it harder for town to make decisions.  Otherwise he's seemed pretty normal.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1145 on: June 10, 2013, 03:29:36 pm »

EFHW: She's been posting a lot, but not making any new stances.  I haven't played with her much, and I can't remember if this is what she was like as town or not.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1146 on: June 10, 2013, 03:33:53 pm »

TA: He's posted a lot.  his play seems similar to in MXXIV, so somewhat of a townread.


Alright, I need to go now, I'll post more later.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1147 on: June 10, 2013, 06:11:52 pm »

Love all, trust a few,
Do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy
Rather in power than use; and keep thy friend
Under thy own life's key: be check'd for silence,
But never tax'd for speech.



Vote Count Act II.III:


mail-mi (2): raerae, EFHW
Eevee (1): mail-mi
EFHW (1): Twistedarcher

Not Voting (2): Eevee, sudgy

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Act II ends on June 20th at 7:00 p.m.

You have 9 days and 20 hours in the bank.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 06:24:46 pm by ashersky »
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1148 on: June 10, 2013, 09:25:19 pm »

TA's case is replete with subtle distortions in what actually happened.  It also highlights the number of aggressive attacks he has made, on nkirbit, then lio, now me.  I contend these are all three contrived cases.  I'm not sure if they are honestly intended or designed to try to force through mislynches.  I'll go through his case in order.

I'm going to go ahead and Vote: EFHW
D1, early on, EFHW was pretty unremarkable. Voted X for his random vote on Nkirbit, talked about theory, but nothing that really struck me as either towny or scummy. She has mail-mi as her top town read, solely for lurking.
The inaccuracy here may be inadvertent - I voted for mail-mi for not contributing, not for lurking.  The posts he made were all fluff, good for seeming present but not taking stances or making observations.
Vote: mail-mi for not contributing.  This is not RVS.

Quote
The first thing that stuck out at me is that after delaying, she jumped ahead and voted me for my case, without really understanding what my case was. The final thing that tipped the balance for her was that I said "I think the fact you're attempting to discredit my case rather than defend yourself speaks volumes, as well." Now, I can get someone disagreeing with this, but using that sentence as justification to vote me? It wasn't really out of line with anything I had been saying, and I had been pushing nkirbit HARD, but it seemed like a flimsy reason, as if she was trying to find a reason to join in on my wagon and get the lynch going.

I already responded to this point earlier, but the way he makes it here is problematic.  I delayed in voting him? but then I jumped forward?  Why was he expecting me to vote sooner or later than I did?  I reserved judgment until I felt I had seen enough.  Then I voted.  I think I did understand TA's case against nkirbit, and found it contrived.  I think he focused on small subtleties as a way to seem mistreated by me.  My response to his statement about discrediting his case was totally appropriate.  How else should nkirbit defend himself?  "Speaks volumes" exaggerates the significance of a completely reasonable approach to being attacked.   I found the whole attack scummy, and this last comment pushed me over the edge to vote because it seemed designed to misrepresent nkirbit's actual behaviors.  I don't see anything scummy here.

Quote
Yet, despite voting me, she says in #458:
Quote

Now, this does not mean I find TA the scummiest, and I am not going to argue for a TA lynch today.
She states that she finds Sudgy and Xeiron scummier than she finds me.
Despite finding Sudgy scummy, she never gets around to placing her vote on him.
"Never gets around to voting?"  I was typing my post intending to vote for sudgy, asking if L-1 was too risky, when Eevee posted his vote that placed sudgy at L-1 -- without that caution.  If I had voted then it would have been inexcusable.  How can he now fault me for "not getting around to it?"  Then sudgy claimed and the wagon was abandoned. 

Quote
Once it's clear post-claim Sudgy will not get lynched, there's a point where Xeiron only has 2 votes, yet she hesitates to place her vote on him. However, in #768, after being prompted to vote again, she returns to place her vote on TA, not Xeiron, who she stated she had found scummier. She also avoided voting Xeiron until the hammer.

The vote for TA in 768 seems abrupt because there had been a lot of posts between when I made my argument about TA's contrived case against liopoil and when I voted.  For me, the thought process was continuous, but I can see how it might have seemed out of the blue if you weren't reading closely.  Regarding who I said was scummier, this is over 300 posts after I said xeiron was scummier than TA.  Things change.

Quote
Finally, after Xeiron and Lio's claim, she pushes them hard, pointing out the contradictions in their case. Yet she is still hesitant to lynch. She makes sure that she has both mine and nkirbit's backing for a hammer, before she goes through. The fact that she was so hesitant, in the face of the obvious contradictions/lies of Xeiron/Lio, read scummy rather than towny to me. Towny, looking at those lies, would have thought that we definitely had caught scum (it's what I thought).
Yeah, I hesitated, for 14 minutes.  He makes it sound like it was two days.  I had just come off of Pirates, where I followed exhortations to vote, and was never believed again for the rest of the game.  Yes we caught them in a lie - no they weren't scum.  He wants it to be cut and dried, simple and obvious.  But it never is.  There was no harm in giving it a moment.

Quote
Today, she has a case on mail-mi. The case occurred after Raerae had opened the day voting Mail-mi for lurking. The case even names mail-mi - sudgy as a scum team, solely on the basis of mail-mi saying he thinks Sudgy is town. This case is extremely flimsy to me -- mail-mi's lurking, yes, and it's fine to vote to apply pressure, as Raerae did, but to build a case entirely based on lurking, especially when we know he's been V/LA? It just seems too easy and convenient to me, and I'm not buying it.
He oversimplifies my case again.  When he wasn't lurking, mail-mi was fishing for lovers and dangling night-kill info.  After broadcasting his interest in lovers, he should have been a prime nightkill target, but he wasn't killed.  And for mail-mi to go out of his way to mention sudgy's towniness in the context of rarely posting and even more rarely stating an opinion deserves an FOS.  Furthermore, TA blasted nkirbit for countless pages for not being aggressive in his scum-hunting.  I vote mail-mi for not scumhunting AT ALL and he votes for me?  It seems like it is TA who is being arbitrary here.

Quote
I also find it suspicious that I was a scum read to her yesterday, and she voted for me twice, yet she jumped back on mail-mi rather than on me. My suspicion is that this is because I haven't really been under any pressure today, and my lynch would probably be one of the harder ones to push. So she wants to go for mail-mi, who would be an easier mislynch today.
TA was very towny at the end of yesterday and I had again readjusted my lynching priorities.  Nothing scummy there.  Is it less scummy of me to keep him at the top when I had found him towny?

Quote
Case in short: EFHW found an arbitrary reason to vote TA after many others already had, didn't vote Sudgy despite a scum-read, made sure she only voted Xeiron after she had permission from TA and nkirbit, despite having brought up an obvious lie herself, and brought up a flimsy case on mail-mi today based solely on lurking, despite the fact that I was a larger scum read to her yesterday than mail-mi was.
Case in short: None of my votes or positions were arbitrary.  I was cautious with my votes when it would mean the hammer.  My case on mail-mi is not flimsy, and less flimsy, imo, than TA's cases on nkirbit or lio were. 
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1149 on: June 10, 2013, 10:39:30 pm »

Raerae, can we get your reads now? Or will we have to wait until the end of D2? :(

Um...what part of my reads at the end of D1 were confusing? 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1150 on: June 10, 2013, 10:39:49 pm »

Also, raerae is d-runk...be prepared.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1151 on: June 10, 2013, 10:42:11 pm »

Vote: sudgy

You guys seriously find nothing about a CLAIMED LOVER being alive suspicious???

Vote: sudgy again, just for emphasis
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1152 on: June 10, 2013, 10:43:31 pm »

Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.

Seriously?  Seriously??  That's what you come out with?  You've been away from a flipping week and THAT is where you start?  Good gravy.  Please give some thoughts on D1.
Okay. Next post

What are you doing?  Do you not even want to be in this game?

Sorry, i was in the middle of my readthrough and i had to get off. I'm starting again, tho.

I really like how you still haven't finished that readthrough.  It super great.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1153 on: June 10, 2013, 10:45:55 pm »

Vote Count Act II.IV:

mail-mi (1): EFHW
Eevee (1): mail-mi
EFHW (1): Twistedarcher
sudgy (1): raerae

Not Voting (2): Eevee, sudgy

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Act II ends on June 20th at 7:00 p.m.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 10:48:06 pm by ashersky »
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1154 on: June 10, 2013, 11:20:42 pm »

oh man I wanted more drunk posts! keep them coming!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1155 on: June 10, 2013, 11:25:54 pm »

EFHW, I think your vote on me was convenient, and that you definitely weren't going to hammer unless myself and nkirbit ok'd it. That's what comes off as scummy -- you wanted to make sure that it wasn't solely your decision, and that no one would hold you responsible for it. If I'm town, I am going to decide myself on whether or not I should hammer, no based on whether or not anyone else thinks it's a good idea, or whether or not anyone else is available to do it.

I think the majority of your case on mail-mi is him being inactive. Which is fine, but making a big case to justify it seems like you're just digging for reasons to make him seem scummy. Him being inactive sucks, but I don't get a scumread from him, actually.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1156 on: June 10, 2013, 11:35:05 pm »

Hi. Here is me realizing someone is going to call this super scummy, but I do still suspect EHFW and she looks like a viable lynch. Vote: EHFW
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1157 on: June 10, 2013, 11:43:33 pm »

Hi. Here is me realizing someone is going to call this super scummy, but I do still suspect EHFW and she looks like a viable lynch. Vote: EHFW

Is this you agreeing with my case, or voting for separate reasons?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1158 on: June 10, 2013, 11:44:33 pm »

Also, EFHW, if you're going to lynch mail-mi as being a suspected partner to Sudgy, I'd rather you lynch Sudgy instead. It won't matter if they're lovers but I think Sudgy is more likely to be scum than mail-mi is.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1159 on: June 10, 2013, 11:44:41 pm »

Hi. Here is me realizing someone is going to call this super scummy, but I do still suspect EHFW and she looks like a viable lynch. Vote: EHFW

Is this you agreeing with my case, or voting for separate reasons?
I don't disagree with your case. Her profile fits with her being scum so well.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1160 on: June 10, 2013, 11:45:17 pm »

Vote: sudgy

You guys seriously find nothing about a CLAIMED LOVER being alive suspicious???

Vote: sudgy again, just for emphasis
Ummm... this is RMM, we very possibly have a doctor. And nkirbit is not dead.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1161 on: June 10, 2013, 11:46:07 pm »

Eevee, seriously, sudgy is a lover and is alive and you are OK with this?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1162 on: June 10, 2013, 11:47:01 pm »

raerae:
Vote: sudgy

You guys seriously find nothing about a CLAIMED LOVER being alive suspicious???

Vote: sudgy again, just for emphasis
Ummm... this is RMM, we very possibly have a doctor. And nkirbit is not dead.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1163 on: June 10, 2013, 11:47:13 pm »

Eevee, seriously, sudgy is a lover and is alive and you are OK with this?
I am.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1164 on: June 10, 2013, 11:48:00 pm »

Vote: sudgy

You guys seriously find nothing about a CLAIMED LOVER being alive suspicious???

Vote: sudgy again, just for emphasis
Ummm... this is RMM, we very possibly have a doctor. And nkirbit is not dead.

So...you're point?  We have two scum teams or scum didn't target sudgy?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1165 on: June 10, 2013, 11:48:19 pm »

I think Sudgy is very possibly scum in a scum-town lover pair.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1166 on: June 10, 2013, 11:48:54 pm »

Mail-mi:

Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.

Seriously?  Seriously??  That's what you come out with?  You've been away from a flipping week and THAT is where you start?  Good gravy.  Please give some thoughts on D1.
Okay. Next post

What are you doing?  Do you not even want to be in this game?

Sorry, i was in the middle of my readthrough and i had to get off. I'm starting again, tho.

I really like how you still haven't finished that readthrough.  It super great.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1167 on: June 10, 2013, 11:50:45 pm »

Ugh I'm curious as to why mail-mi knows the kill is missing, but I guess it's best for him to keep it secret.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1168 on: June 10, 2013, 11:50:55 pm »

Eevee, seriously, sudgy is a lover and is alive and you are OK with this?
I am.

Why?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1169 on: June 10, 2013, 11:52:31 pm »

Ugh I'm curious as to why mail-mi knows the kill is missing, but I guess it's best for him to keep it secret.

I'm more curious as to why he hasn't finished that reread.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1170 on: June 10, 2013, 11:53:23 pm »

Ugh I'm curious as to why mail-mi knows the kill is missing, but I guess it's best for him to keep it secret.

I'm more curious as to why he hasn't finished that reread.

I really think that if he was scum he would be making sure to contribute in SOME way. I don't think he is scum this game.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1171 on: June 10, 2013, 11:54:27 pm »

Ugh I'm curious as to why mail-mi knows the kill is missing, but I guess it's best for him to keep it secret.

I'm more curious as to why he hasn't finished that reread.

I really think that if he was scum he would be making sure to contribute in SOME way. I don't think he is scum this game.

I'm still curious.  If he's town, he should be trying to help us out.  He's doing a fabulous job of not doing that though.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1172 on: June 10, 2013, 11:56:16 pm »

Fair enough.

What's your read on EFHW?

Btw sorry, I need to go back and find your reads at the end of D1, I must have missed them :( I will do that now
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1173 on: June 11, 2013, 12:01:32 am »

Fair enough.

What's your read on EFHW?

Btw sorry, I need to go back and find your reads at the end of D1, I must have missed them :( I will do that now

Nothing too remarkable on her.  I reread her yesterday and on the reread she seemed more townie than on the remembering.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1174 on: June 11, 2013, 12:05:13 am »

Eevee, seriously, sudgy is a lover and is alive and you are OK with this?
I am.

Why?

Anything I say to defend him will just be a huge target at my back because scum will think I'm his lover.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1175 on: June 11, 2013, 12:13:32 am »

Vote: sudgy

You guys seriously find nothing about a CLAIMED LOVER being alive suspicious???

Vote: sudgy again, just for emphasis
Ummm... this is RMM, we very possibly have a doctor. And nkirbit is not dead.

So...you're point?  We have two scum teams or scum didn't target sudgy?

Listen: I know for a fact that nkirbit is not dead. I don't want to claim. Just trust me on this.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1176 on: June 11, 2013, 12:19:49 am »

Eevee, seriously, sudgy is a lover and is alive and you are OK with this?
I am.

Why?

Anything I say to defend him will just be a huge target at my back because scum will think I'm his lover.

So you think he's town?  Lover claim aside.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1177 on: June 11, 2013, 12:20:38 am »

Vote: sudgy

You guys seriously find nothing about a CLAIMED LOVER being alive suspicious???

Vote: sudgy again, just for emphasis
Ummm... this is RMM, we very possibly have a doctor. And nkirbit is not dead.

So...you're point?  We have two scum teams or scum didn't target sudgy?

Listen: I know for a fact that nkirbit is not dead. I don't want to claim. Just trust me on this.

I never asked you to claim and I don't want you to but none of this explains how sudgy is alive and why you are acceptable of that.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1178 on: June 11, 2013, 12:25:41 am »

Yeah that would mean that either scum didn't target Sudgy, or that Sudgy got doctored.

I think the first is much much much more likely.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1179 on: June 11, 2013, 12:26:57 am »

How weird is it that Sudgy's claim was unconfirmed? When Lio/X claimed, they went out and claimed both partners. Is it odd that no one else stepped us to say "Yes, I confirm this, I'm one of the people Sudgy mentioned". I guess it makes sense, since we backed off of Sudgy so quickly.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1180 on: June 11, 2013, 12:31:06 am »

Yes, I do think he is town. A gut read. I think it's a correct one.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1181 on: June 11, 2013, 12:43:19 am »

Gonna do some stuff on Eevee now.

I think mail-mi is scummy, just not scummy in the context of analyzing the xeiron-mailmi-sudgy - trio.

Did he ever explain this?

In rereading him, his play seems a lot different than his Pirates play (in which he was town battling not to get lynched against galz who was scum.) Less content.

Again, TA's case. I would also like to add: Sudgy claimed lover. Eevee is all like "Whoa, he's a lover, let's lynch xeiron instead." Xeiron claims lovers with liopoil. Eevee then says (after like 8 pages):

Okay, still 6 pages behind but atm willing to support lynching xeiron.

Why the switch on lovers, Eevee?

Eevee says 3 (3!) things after claim: "Will catch up", "Too tired to catch up," what i just posted. I was V/LA. I have an excuse. Eevee has no such excuse.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1182 on: June 11, 2013, 12:43:45 am »

Off to sleeps now g'night.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1183 on: June 11, 2013, 12:46:40 am »

I dont know, being tired is not an excuse? I was obviously very absent from the internet during that time.

You and raerae are seriously super rolefishing if I'm a lover with sudgy or not. I refuse to comment!

And what's to explain about the comment? I thought you were scummy, just not scummy when finding a lynch target from the trio I mentioned. Scummy compared to anyone else, not compared to the two.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1184 on: June 11, 2013, 12:53:09 am »

I want to lynch either EFHW or Sudgy today. Mixed on Raerae. Probably don't want to lynch Eevee, definitely don't want to lynch Mail-mi.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1185 on: June 11, 2013, 12:54:29 am »

Are the reasons for def not wanting mail-mi public?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1186 on: June 11, 2013, 01:00:46 am »

Are the reasons for def not wanting mail-mi public?

Nothing private -- I just have a town read on him
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1187 on: June 11, 2013, 01:01:43 am »

Are the reasons for def not wanting mail-mi public?

Nothing private -- I just have a town read on him
Would you be able to explain where it comes from?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1188 on: June 11, 2013, 01:04:06 am »

I think if he was scum, he'd be trying more to come in and post. He's been inactive, but nothing about his play has struck me as similar to the previous times he's been scum to me. When he's been scum in the past I've noticed it very easily, and I don't notice anything this game, so I really think he's town.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1189 on: June 11, 2013, 07:55:36 am »

How weird is it that Sudgy's claim was unconfirmed? When Lio/X claimed, they went out and claimed both partners. Is it odd that no one else stepped us to say "Yes, I confirm this, I'm one of the people Sudgy mentioned". I guess it makes sense, since we backed off of Sudgy so quickly.
I'm fine with lynching sudgy, but this is not a reason to do it.  As I said before, we TOLD his lover(s) not to claim. 

I'm confident sudgy's claim is true. So if we lynch him two people die. Should we have silvia/julia claim? I don't think so. Should we have silvia/julia just say who they are?
I'm thinking absolutely not. Let's just not lynch sudgy and deal with that tomorrow.

I'm going to check the wagon before voting.  Be right back.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1190 on: June 11, 2013, 08:00:03 am »

Just one person on the wagon!  raerae's vote got quoted so many times, I thought it was more.  Since there doesn't seem to be much support for a mail-mi lynch, I'm very comfortable switching my vote to sudgy.

Vote: sudgy

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1191 on: June 11, 2013, 08:17:01 am »

EFHW, I think your vote on me was convenient
I really don't know what you mean here.  Which vote and what was convenient about it?

Quote
, and that you definitely weren't going to hammer unless myself and nkirbit ok'd it. That's what comes off as scummy -- you wanted to make sure that it wasn't solely your decision, and that no one would hold you responsible for it.
This is true.  Doesn't mean I'm scummy.  I've said this several times already, I was reticent because of my pirates experience.  It seems scummy because sometimes I seem scummy.  Town players can be scummy-ish sometimes.

Quote
If I'm town, I am going to decide myself on whether or not I should hammer, no based on whether or not anyone else thinks it's a good idea, or whether or not anyone else is available to do it.
  That's great.  That's you. 

Quote
I think the majority of your case on mail-mi is him being inactive. Which is fine, but making a big case to justify it seems like you're just digging for reasons to make him seem scummy. Him being inactive sucks, but I don't get a scumread from him, actually.
 
You're saying you don't agree with my case.  Perfectly fine.  If you don't get a scumread on him, you shouldn't vote for him.  But your townread on mail-mi is not equivalent to a scum read on me.  We just disagree.  And for you to accuse me of digging for reasons, etc is rich, seeing as you are doing that about me and did do that about Lio and nkirbit.  I see two likely scum at the moment, mail-mi and sudgy.  The case against sudgy has been made.  I made one against mail-mi.  If he had done anything towny at all I would have included that in the balance, but he hasn't.  And saying "scum would be townier" is not much of a defense. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1192 on: June 11, 2013, 08:21:26 am »

Eevee says 3 (3!) things after claim: "Will catch up", "Too tired to catch up," what i just posted. I was V/LA. I have an excuse. Eevee has no such excuse.
You were v/la Monday through Friday and the previous Tuesday.  What's your "excuse" for all the other days?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1193 on: June 11, 2013, 12:50:09 pm »

Really quiet in here today! 

Do we want a soft deadline again?  Maybe Friday evening, or Monday?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1194 on: June 11, 2013, 12:56:46 pm »

Eevee says 3 (3!) things after claim: "Will catch up", "Too tired to catch up," what i just posted. I was V/LA. I have an excuse. Eevee has no such excuse.
You were v/la Monday through Friday and the previous Tuesday.  What's your "excuse" for all the other days?
School, for most of them.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1195 on: June 11, 2013, 04:26:30 pm »

Really quiet in here today! 

Do we want a soft deadline again?  Maybe Friday evening, or Monday?

I'm out of town most of this week and next so a softdeadline would be good but I simply can't promise I'll be around for it.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1196 on: June 11, 2013, 04:31:04 pm »

I dont know, being tired is not an excuse? I was obviously very absent from the internet during that time.

You and raerae are seriously super rolefishing if I'm a lover with sudgy or not. I refuse to comment!

And what's to explain about the comment? I thought you were scummy, just not scummy when finding a lynch target from the trio I mentioned. Scummy compared to anyone else, not compared to the two.

My dear, if I've said it once I've said it a million times, don't flipping claim, I don't want to know what your power is.  However, just as in any other game, you can't just say "trust me" and expect me to trust you.  This is mafia and you need to, need to, need to explain reads no matter your role.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1197 on: June 11, 2013, 04:38:53 pm »

I dont know, being tired is not an excuse? I was obviously very absent from the internet during that time.

You and raerae are seriously super rolefishing if I'm a lover with sudgy or not. I refuse to comment!

And what's to explain about the comment? I thought you were scummy, just not scummy when finding a lynch target from the trio I mentioned. Scummy compared to anyone else, not compared to the two.

Where was I doing that?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1198 on: June 11, 2013, 07:02:26 pm »

Vote Count Act II.V:

Eevee (1): mail-mi
EFHW (2): Twistedarcher, Eevee
sudgy (2): raerae, EFHW

Not Voting (1): sudgy

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Act II ends on June 20th at 7:00 p.m.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1199 on: June 11, 2013, 09:59:27 pm »

HEY!  HEY EVERYBODY!  How 'bout we don't let this stagnate, huh???
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1200 on: June 11, 2013, 10:20:22 pm »

Yeah seriously. Lets do a soft deadline.

8:30 pm on Friday work?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1201 on: June 11, 2013, 10:21:45 pm »

I keep going back to the lovercop role.

There HAVE to be other couples.

And there HAVE to be scum in those couples, what good is a role that only catches town couples, right?

This keeps bringing me back to Sudgy..

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1202 on: June 11, 2013, 10:27:25 pm »

I keep going back to the lovercop role.

There HAVE to be other couples.

And there HAVE to be scum in those couples, what good is a role that only catches town couples, right?

This keeps bringing me back to Sudgy..
Maybe the lovers were determined randomly, just like in Masons and Monks, when being scum and being a monk/mason were independent of each other probability-wise.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1203 on: June 11, 2013, 10:29:06 pm »

No, I don't think so in an RMM game. They're pretty well planned for balance, I'd imagine, and I doubt it would be left up to probability. There's a rhyme and a reason for everything..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1204 on: June 11, 2013, 10:30:12 pm »

That being said, I'm ready to vote Sudgy. I just can't see him being town.. It would be L-1, though.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1205 on: June 11, 2013, 10:33:26 pm »

What's wrong with ehfw, ta?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1206 on: June 11, 2013, 10:35:49 pm »

I think EFHW is most likely to be the second scum, I really do. Like I said, I have a scum read.

My scum read from EFHW and Sudgy are coming from two different places -- I think Sudgy's scummy cause of setup speculation, and EFHW from reads and gameplay. I guess I should be wary about voting someone from setup speculation, but man I can't see any instance where Sudgy's not scum or at least the lover of a scum.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1207 on: June 11, 2013, 10:38:24 pm »

I also think that it's weird that Sudgy IS still alive. If the kill's missing as mail-mi claims, I have some idea where it went, but missing on Sudgy isn't one of those places. I guess scum could have avoided him as they were wary of a doctor, though.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1208 on: June 11, 2013, 10:41:52 pm »

If you think ehfw's play is scummier, just vote for her!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1209 on: June 11, 2013, 10:44:18 pm »

If you think ehfw's play is scummier, just vote for her!

You still haven't explained your townread on sudgy other than it's a "gut read."  And before you say it, NO! I am not telling you to claim, I just want you to explain your read.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1210 on: June 11, 2013, 10:46:13 pm »

If you think ehfw's play is scummier, just vote for her!

You are worrying me with this!

I do think EFHW's play is scummier, but I've been wrong with my reads before, too/ I think she's scum, but I don't KNOW she's scum. If I think Sudgy is more likely scum due to the setup, then I'll vote him.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1211 on: June 11, 2013, 10:46:45 pm »

If you think ehfw's play is scummier, just vote for her!

You still haven't explained your townread on sudgy other than it's a "gut read."  And before you say it, NO! I am not telling you to claim, I just want you to explain your read.
You really might be telling me to claim though. Hypothetically I'm a cop and investigated sudgy, how would you have me explain it?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1212 on: June 11, 2013, 10:47:28 pm »

If you think ehfw's play is scummier, just vote for her!

You are worrying me with this!

I do think EFHW's play is scummier, but I've been wrong with my reads before, too/ I think she's scum, but I don't KNOW she's scum. If I think Sudgy is more likely scum due to the setup, then I'll vote him.
I'm saying I'm pretty sure that's not the case!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1213 on: June 11, 2013, 10:50:32 pm »

If you think ehfw's play is scummier, just vote for her!

You still haven't explained your townread on sudgy other than it's a "gut read."  And before you say it, NO! I am not telling you to claim, I just want you to explain your read.
You really might be telling me to claim though. Hypothetically I'm a cop and investigated sudgy, how would you have me explain it?

Do you think he's town, or do you know he's town?

Take a minute to think about whether or not this is worth it to claim if you KNOW he's town. I think it's worth it though, as claiming cop / lover / something else gives enough leeway that you're not exposing your role completely, but at the same time, it's not as big of a deal to say that since scum would already know you're a power role.

Let me know if this makes sense before you answer thoguh!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1214 on: June 11, 2013, 10:51:09 pm »

If you think ehfw's play is scummier, just vote for her!

You still haven't explained your townread on sudgy other than it's a "gut read."  And before you say it, NO! I am not telling you to claim, I just want you to explain your read.
You really might be telling me to claim though. Hypothetically I'm a cop and investigated sudgy, how would you have me explain it?

Like you would in every other game under the sun when you don't have a fancy-dancy power.  Good gravy, Eevee, are you being this difficult on purpose or is me telling you not to claim really that confusing?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1215 on: June 11, 2013, 10:53:13 pm »

I think I know I can deduct he is likely to be town. Like way enough to not make him our best lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1216 on: June 11, 2013, 10:53:50 pm »

If you think ehfw's play is scummier, just vote for her!

You still haven't explained your townread on sudgy other than it's a "gut read."  And before you say it, NO! I am not telling you to claim, I just want you to explain your read.
You really might be telling me to claim though. Hypothetically I'm a cop and investigated sudgy, how would you have me explain it?

Like you would in every other game under the sun when you don't have a fancy-dancy power.  Good gravy, Eevee, are you being this difficult on purpose or is me telling you not to claim really that confusing?
How about you stop trying to lynch poor sudgy?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1217 on: June 11, 2013, 10:55:17 pm »

If you think ehfw's play is scummier, just vote for her!

You still haven't explained your townread on sudgy other than it's a "gut read."  And before you say it, NO! I am not telling you to claim, I just want you to explain your read.
You really might be telling me to claim though. Hypothetically I'm a cop and investigated sudgy, how would you have me explain it?

Like you would in every other game under the sun when you don't have a fancy-dancy power.  Good gravy, Eevee, are you being this difficult on purpose or is me telling you not to claim really that confusing?
How about you stop trying to lynch poor sudgy?

No, I think either he and/or his lover is scum.  Way more than I think EFHW is.  You're being difficult, fuzzball.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1218 on: June 11, 2013, 10:55:46 pm »

If you think ehfw's play is scummier, just vote for her!

You still haven't explained your townread on sudgy other than it's a "gut read."  And before you say it, NO! I am not telling you to claim, I just want you to explain your read.
You really might be telling me to claim though. Hypothetically I'm a cop and investigated sudgy, how would you have me explain it?

Like you would in every other game under the sun when you don't have a fancy-dancy power.  Good gravy, Eevee, are you being this difficult on purpose or is me telling you not to claim really that confusing?
How about you stop trying to lynch poor sudgy?
How bout you stop buddying up to him and actually tell us why the town read?
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1219 on: June 11, 2013, 10:56:11 pm »

If you think ehfw's play is scummier, just vote for her!

You still haven't explained your townread on sudgy other than it's a "gut read."  And before you say it, NO! I am not telling you to claim, I just want you to explain your read.
You really might be telling me to claim though. Hypothetically I'm a cop and investigated sudgy, how would you have me explain it?

Like you would in every other game under the sun when you don't have a fancy-dancy power.  Good gravy, Eevee, are you being this difficult on purpose or is me telling you not to claim really that confusing?
How about you stop trying to lynch poor sudgy?

"I have a town read because he did X, he said Y, he didn't do Z".

But the fact that you've said none of this has made it very clear that it's not a read, but information, that's made you think Sudgy is town. So I think we have our answer, Raerae
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1220 on: June 11, 2013, 10:58:47 pm »

If you think ehfw's play is scummier, just vote for her!

You still haven't explained your townread on sudgy other than it's a "gut read."  And before you say it, NO! I am not telling you to claim, I just want you to explain your read.
You really might be telling me to claim though. Hypothetically I'm a cop and investigated sudgy, how would you have me explain it?

Like you would in every other game under the sun when you don't have a fancy-dancy power.  Good gravy, Eevee, are you being this difficult on purpose or is me telling you not to claim really that confusing?
How about you stop trying to lynch poor sudgy?

"I have a town read because he did X, he said Y, he didn't do Z".

But the fact that you've said none of this has made it very clear that it's not a read, but information, that's made you think Sudgy is town. So I think we have our answer, Raerae

Anybody could say what Eevee is saying right now regardless of alignment or information.  Fake is pretty damn easy to pull off.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1221 on: June 11, 2013, 11:01:31 pm »

And now I am more sure of my vote on Eevee.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1222 on: June 11, 2013, 11:02:37 pm »

I have information, i don't want to claim what it is. it makes me think sudgy is town.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1223 on: June 11, 2013, 11:02:58 pm »

If Sudgy is scum, there's NO way scum!Eevee would do this, though
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1224 on: June 11, 2013, 11:03:53 pm »

I think it's almost always scummy to pressure other people to vote a certain way. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1225 on: June 11, 2013, 11:04:10 pm »

If Sudgy is scum, there's NO way scum!Eevee would do this, though

Why not?  WIFOM.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1226 on: June 11, 2013, 11:05:26 pm »

Eevee could be a survivor and sudgy's lover.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1227 on: June 11, 2013, 11:06:46 pm »

If Sudgy is scum, there's NO way scum!Eevee would do this, though
Then you clearly should not want to lynch sudgy?

Again, if I die and flip town, consider sudgy town as well.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1228 on: June 11, 2013, 11:07:57 pm »

I think it's almost always scummy to pressure other people to vote a certain way.
I'm obviously going to pressure people to vote for my biggest scum read over my biggest town read.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1229 on: June 11, 2013, 11:10:37 pm »

I think it's almost always scummy to pressure other people to vote a certain way.
I'm obviously going to pressure people to vote for my biggest scum read over my biggest town read.
Lots of people do that, I guess it's a legitimate strategy, but personally I find it scummy. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1230 on: June 11, 2013, 11:11:11 pm »

Guys, seriously, let's just consider the facts in front of us. 

1.  A kill was attempted last night and we have kermit's semi-lifeless body to prove it.
2.  A claimed lover is still alive.
3.  This game is pretty small for multiple night kills.

Deduction:
Scum did not target the claimed lover last night so at least one of the lovers must be scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1231 on: June 11, 2013, 11:12:29 pm »

Eevee could be a survivor and sudgy's lover.

I think we should seriously consider this possibility.  It explains his strong but unsupported stance against lynching sudgy.  Survivor was one of the wincons listed as possible in the game.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1232 on: June 11, 2013, 11:13:53 pm »

This is rmm, me claiming would be bad for town. I see the logic in your posts, but this is the situation.

Raerae, a scum whisperer would be a very weird role.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1233 on: June 11, 2013, 11:14:53 pm »

Vote Count Act II.VI:

Eevee (1): mail-mi
EFHW (2): Twistedarcher, Eevee
sudgy (2): raerae, EFHW

Not Voting (1): sudgy

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Act II ends on June 20th at 7:00 p.m.

Your three free days have been used up.  You are now on banked time.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1234 on: June 11, 2013, 11:15:49 pm »

I think nkirbit was poisoned, not killed. And I think it's pretty obvious. (we def has a poisoner since we had a poison doctor). That means the night kill was blocked.

Raerae, there ARE a lot of reasons why Sudgy could have survived, though. Roleblocker, Doctor, Jailkeeper, and probably some more we aren't aware of.

I think we def have a NK missing, though, and nkirbit was poisoned. I believed this before, and mail-mi's claim makes me believe this even more.

The fact that mail-mi claimed this is another townie point in his favor too, I think.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1235 on: June 11, 2013, 11:17:44 pm »

No Eevee, I think if you have reason to know that Sudgy is DEFINITELY town, it may be worth claiming to save him. Especially if we're going to mislynch him otherwise!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1236 on: June 11, 2013, 11:18:20 pm »

Btw, no one answered, this, but:

Soft Deadline: Friday 8:30 pm forum time

Is this enough time?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1237 on: June 11, 2013, 11:18:35 pm »

This is rmm, me claiming would be bad for town. I see the logic in your posts, but this is the situation.

Raerae, a scum whisperer would be a very weird role.

Why?  It's another tool for scum to try to manipulate town.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1238 on: June 11, 2013, 11:19:50 pm »

I think nkirbit was poisoned, not killed. And I think it's pretty obvious. (we def has a poisoner since we had a poison doctor). That means the night kill was blocked.

Raerae, there ARE a lot of reasons why Sudgy could have survived, though. Roleblocker, Doctor, Jailkeeper, and probably some more we aren't aware of.

I think we def have a NK missing, though, and nkirbit was poisoned. I believed this before, and mail-mi's claim makes me believe this even more.

The fact that mail-mi claimed this is another townie point in his favor too, I think.

Disagree.  Why do you think we have two kills?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1239 on: June 11, 2013, 11:20:21 pm »

This is rmm, me claiming would be bad for town. I see the logic in your posts, but this is the situation.

Raerae, a scum whisperer would be a very weird role.

Maybe I'm still too much of a newbie, does RMM automatically in every instance make claiming a bad idea?  You know if it's bad in this instance or not, but we can't just take you at your word here. 

Whisperer is weird either way, I think.  Seems like a pretty weak power.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1240 on: June 11, 2013, 11:20:38 pm »

No Eevee, I think if you have reason to know that Sudgy is DEFINITELY town, it may be worth claiming to save him. Especially if we're going to mislynch him otherwise!

NO!!  DID YOU MISS WHAT CLAIMING DID TO US DAY ONE????
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1241 on: June 11, 2013, 11:21:17 pm »

Isn't claiming better in RMM than in normal mafia for town? As in, you're not providing a night target, since everyone was a power role, anyways.

Its only D2 but we are getting close to the end of the game. If Eevee is correct about Sudgy, mislynching Sudgy results in a loss for town (I think if Sudgy = town then partner = town, without a doubt). That would put us at 2/2 going into the night.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1242 on: June 11, 2013, 11:21:52 pm »

No Eevee, I think if you have reason to know that Sudgy is DEFINITELY town, it may be worth claiming to save him. Especially if we're going to mislynch him otherwise!

NO!!  DID YOU MISS WHAT CLAIMING DID TO US DAY ONE?????

Right, but if we're going to mislynch Sudgy, then town loses. So if Eevee has information to stop a mislynch, and we're going to mislynch, he NEEDS to get that info out there.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1243 on: June 11, 2013, 11:22:13 pm »

I think nkirbit was poisoned, not killed. And I think it's pretty obvious. (we def has a poisoner since we had a poison doctor). That means the night kill was blocked.

Raerae, there ARE a lot of reasons why Sudgy could have survived, though. Roleblocker, Doctor, Jailkeeper, and probably some more we aren't aware of.

I think we def have a NK missing, though, and nkirbit was poisoned. I believed this before, and mail-mi's claim makes me believe this even more.

The fact that mail-mi claimed this is another townie point in his favor too, I think.

Disagree.  Why do you think we have two kills?

I think we have a NK and a poison, and nkirbit was poisoned.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1244 on: June 11, 2013, 11:25:05 pm »

Isn't claiming better in RMM than in normal mafia for town? As in, you're not providing a night target, since everyone was a power role, anyways.
I had that thought as well.

Quote
Its only D2 but we are getting close to the end of the game. If Eevee is correct about Sudgy, mislynching Sudgy results in a loss for town (I think if Sudgy = town then partner = town, without a doubt). That would put us at 2/2 going into the night.
I don't follow the bolded part here.  What partner do you mean?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1245 on: June 11, 2013, 11:25:30 pm »

I am! Don't mislynch him!

Claiming why would just majorly suck. Please trust me on this. would I be doing this and doing it this way if I was scum?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1246 on: June 11, 2013, 11:26:03 pm »

I am! Don't mislynch him!

Claiming why would just majorly suck. Please trust me on this. would I be doing this and doing it this way if I was scum?

you would as survivor.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1247 on: June 11, 2013, 11:26:40 pm »

What on earth makes you think a nine player game with at least two sets of lovers has two night kills? 

Think of every game in recent memory and how well fake claims have worked.  Just ponder that for a minute and then try to tell me claiming is a great idea.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1248 on: June 11, 2013, 11:29:47 pm »

What on earth makes you think a nine player game with at least two sets of lovers has two night kills? 

Think of every game in recent memory and how well fake claims have worked.  Just ponder that for a minute and then try to tell me claiming is a great idea.

I'm not convinced that poisoner is a scum role actually. mafiascum mentioned it's been used as both town and scum roles, and the fact that we had a poison doctor would have greatly diminished the impact of it. It would have been VERY obvious that nkirbit was poisoned, and if the poison doctor was alive, I bet they would have been able to revive him.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1249 on: June 11, 2013, 11:30:05 pm »

I am! Don't mislynch him!

Claiming why would just majorly suck. Please trust me on this. would I be doing this and doing it this way if I was scum?

you would as survivor.
sucks, no way for me to refute that argument, except that sudgy's role makes more sense for town, I think.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1250 on: June 11, 2013, 11:30:23 pm »

Isn't claiming better in RMM than in normal mafia for town? As in, you're not providing a night target, since everyone was a power role, anyways.
I had that thought as well.

Quote
Its only D2 but we are getting close to the end of the game. If Eevee is correct about Sudgy, mislynching Sudgy results in a loss for town (I think if Sudgy = town then partner = town, without a doubt). That would put us at 2/2 going into the night.
I don't follow the bolded part here.  What partner do you mean?

Sudgy's lover. If Sudgy is town, his claim was truthful, and he has a lover, who's DEFINITELY town.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1251 on: June 11, 2013, 11:30:43 pm »

I guess Eevee's in a tough spot.  He wants us to do what he says but he either thinks it's a bad idea to claim or doesn't want to risk a detailed fakeclaim.  This puts us in a tough spot about whether to believe him or not.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1252 on: June 11, 2013, 11:31:09 pm »

I personally don't believe Eevee, and I'm still okay lynching Sudgy.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1253 on: June 11, 2013, 11:31:42 pm »

Ugh I want to analyze Eevee's possible roles but I don't want to post them and rolefish.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1254 on: June 11, 2013, 11:31:58 pm »

Sudgy's lover. If Sudgy is town, his claim was truthful, and he has a lover, who's DEFINITELY town.

I'm pretty tired, so maybe I'm being dense, but what makes town!sudgy's lover definitely also town?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1255 on: June 11, 2013, 11:32:16 pm »

If Sudgy is scum, there's NO way scum!Eevee would do this, though
What happened to this?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1256 on: June 11, 2013, 11:33:25 pm »

If I was mafia with sudgy, I would have just invented a detailed fake claim.

Really, me claiming hurts town significantly.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1257 on: June 11, 2013, 11:33:32 pm »

Sudgy's lover. If Sudgy is town, his claim was truthful, and he has a lover, who's DEFINITELY town.

I'm pretty tired, so maybe I'm being dense, but what makes town!sudgy's lover definitely also town?

Sudgy's lover was one of the women from 2 gentlemen of verona, forget their names. Unknown which one. But both were definitely good people in shakespeare, and role presupposes alignment, so therefore if Sudgy is town, his lover is town.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1258 on: June 11, 2013, 11:35:12 pm »

ok, I see now.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1259 on: June 11, 2013, 11:35:27 pm »

If Sudgy is scum, there's NO way scum!Eevee would do this, though
What happened to this?

I don't think you're scum, but I think Sudgy very well may be..

It really depends on what your proof of town Sudgy is!

I can't see any claim you could make that's simultaneously really bad for town AND gives full confirmation of Sudgy's towniess.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1260 on: June 11, 2013, 11:37:09 pm »

If you forced me to claim, I think I would want to lie.

It's not full confirmation, but easily enough to make him my top townread. If you
think I'm town, just my judgemen! It's actually sort of scummy you don't want to..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1261 on: June 11, 2013, 11:37:21 pm »

It doesn't look like we're going to lynch tonight, so I'll "see" you all in the morning.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1262 on: June 11, 2013, 11:38:42 pm »

Sorry guys for not posting recently, I've been doing stuff.  I've just been catching up then having to do something else.

Anyway, I feel like I need to say that I will not be around for the soft deadline.  I'm going to be gone from around ~5:30 PM Friday to some time Saturday.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1263 on: June 11, 2013, 11:39:22 pm »

We can move it, since you're the only one who's even responded so far :P
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1264 on: June 11, 2013, 11:41:27 pm »

If you forced me to claim, I think I would want to lie.

It's not full confirmation, but easily enough to make him my top townread. If you
think I'm town, just my judgemen! It's actually sort of scummy you don't want to..

Ugh. Would your lying really be better for town than telling the truth?

I just...ugh. I'm so uneasy about this.

I think mail-mi is town. If I believe you, that means Raerae and EFHW are town.

I agree that EFHW could be town, but I'm not sure on Raerae.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1265 on: June 11, 2013, 11:43:10 pm »

Also of note, Eevee had a scumread on Sudgy D1.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1266 on: June 11, 2013, 11:45:46 pm »

The night has been unruly. Where we lay,
Our chimneys were blown down and, as they say,
Lamentings heard i' th' air, strange screams of death,
And prophesying with accents terrible
Of dire combustion and confused events
New hatched to the woeful time. The obscure bird
Clamored the livelong night. Some say the Earth
Was feverous and did shake.



Vote Count Act II.VII:


Eevee (1): mail-mi
EFHW (2): Twistedarcher, Eevee
sudgy (2): raerae, EFHW

Not Voting (1): sudgy

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Act II ends on June 20th at 7:00 p.m.

Your three free days have been used up.  You are now on banked time.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1267 on: June 12, 2013, 12:16:02 am »

@raerae: nkirbit was not the scum kill. Consider this a fact. Next, if sudgy is scum, why isn't there a scum kill??. What doctor in thier right mind would protect someone other than sudgy??

@ash: your sig still says D1, by the way.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1268 on: June 12, 2013, 06:51:18 am »

TA, what is it that you are worried about? That I'm wrong or that I'm scum?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1269 on: June 12, 2013, 08:47:35 am »

@raerae: nkirbit was not the scum kill. Consider this a fact. Next, if sudgy is scum, why isn't there a scum kill??. What doctor in thier right mind would protect someone other than sudgy??

@ash: your sig still says D1, by the way.

No.  No, I will not.  I believe kermit was the ATTEMPTED night kill and somebody saved him sort of.  Consider:  I'm pushing the hell out of lynch a claimed lover and there is plenty of resistance.  Was there for the other set of lovers?  NO!  Because scum knew they were both town.  Sudgy and/or his lover is/are scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1270 on: June 12, 2013, 09:12:53 am »

We can move it, since you're the only one who's even responded so far :P
Actually, I suggested the same soft deadline and raerae said she might not be there.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1271 on: June 12, 2013, 09:37:21 am »

TA, what is it that you are worried about? That I'm wrong or that I'm scum?

More the first, but the second is definitely a concern, too.

I just don't see a role that makes you confident that Sudgy is town, AND makes revealing is so so so terribly awful. I can't.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1272 on: June 12, 2013, 09:39:54 am »

@raerae: nkirbit was not the scum kill. Consider this a fact. Next, if sudgy is scum, why isn't there a scum kill??. What doctor in thier right mind would protect someone other than sudgy??

@ash: your sig still says D1, by the way.

No.  No, I will not.  I believe kermit was the ATTEMPTED night kill and somebody saved him sort of. Consider:  I'm pushing the hell out of lynch a claimed lover and there is plenty of resistance.  Was there for the other set of lovers?  NO!  Because scum knew they were both town.  Sudgy and/or his lover is/are scum.

I disagree with this -- our poison doctor is gone. I'm pretty confident that nkirbit was the poison target and NOT the attempted night kill. If he was the attempted night kill, I think he dies with normal flavor.

It's frustrating that we don't know what his role was.

Also, Lio obviously opposed Xeiron's lynch, and Eevee is the only person actively opposing Sudgy's lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1273 on: June 12, 2013, 09:40:29 am »

We can move it, since you're the only one who's even responded so far :P
Actually, I suggested the same soft deadline and raerae said she might not be there.

Oops missed that. Raerae what times are you available for a soft deadline?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1274 on: June 12, 2013, 10:08:16 am »

@raerae: nkirbit was not the scum kill. Consider this a fact. Next, if sudgy is scum, why isn't there a scum kill??. What doctor in thier right mind would protect someone other than sudgy??
No.  No, I will not.  I believe kermit was the ATTEMPTED night kill and somebody saved him sort of. Consider:  I'm pushing the hell out of lynch a claimed lover and there is plenty of resistance.  Was there for the other set of lovers?  NO!  Because scum knew they were both town.  Sudgy and/or his lover is/are scum.
I disagree with this -- our poison doctor is gone. I'm pretty confident that nkirbit was the poison target and NOT the attempted night kill. If he was the attempted night kill, I think he dies with normal flavor.
Well nkirbit's coma is hurting us because we need 4/6 people to agree for a lynch.  mail-mi, where do you stand on the sudgy lynch?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1275 on: June 12, 2013, 11:28:08 am »

TA, me claiming being bad is independent from me thinking sudgy is town. I don't want to claim because my role is better left unclaimed. I think sudgy is town, but can't explain it without claiming.

Note, I don't know that he is town for sure. I think I have good reason to assume.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1276 on: June 12, 2013, 11:58:57 am »

@raerae: nkirbit was not the scum kill. Consider this a fact. Next, if sudgy is scum, why isn't there a scum kill??. What doctor in thier right mind would protect someone other than sudgy??
No.  No, I will not.  I believe kermit was the ATTEMPTED night kill and somebody saved him sort of. Consider:  I'm pushing the hell out of lynch a claimed lover and there is plenty of resistance.  Was there for the other set of lovers?  NO!  Because scum knew they were both town.  Sudgy and/or his lover is/are scum.
I disagree with this -- our poison doctor is gone. I'm pretty confident that nkirbit was the poison target and NOT the attempted night kill. If he was the attempted night kill, I think he dies with normal flavor.
Well nkirbit's coma is hurting us because we need 4/6 people to agree for a lynch.  mail-mi, where do you stand on the sudgy lynch?
It will be very hard to convince me to vote for him. This has town sudgy written all over it. Town!sudgy is always suspected early on in the game.

Now, if hes still alive tomorrow I will be a bit more suspicious of him.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1277 on: June 12, 2013, 11:59:58 am »

@soft deadline: I'm gone Thursday to Saturday with 0 Internet access. So I say we move it later.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1278 on: June 12, 2013, 12:13:01 pm »

Unless sudgy wants to self-vote :P, we're looking pretty stalemated here.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1279 on: June 12, 2013, 12:15:25 pm »

sudgy and Eevee, what are your thoughts about mail-mi?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1280 on: June 12, 2013, 12:21:22 pm »

Unless sudgy wants to self-vote :P, we're looking pretty stalemated here.
Lunch Eevee!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1281 on: June 12, 2013, 12:23:19 pm »

@raerae: nkirbit was not the scum kill. Consider this a fact. Next, if sudgy is scum, why isn't there a scum kill??. What doctor in thier right mind would protect someone other than sudgy??
No.  No, I will not.  I believe kermit was the ATTEMPTED night kill and somebody saved him sort of. Consider:  I'm pushing the hell out of lynch a claimed lover and there is plenty of resistance.  Was there for the other set of lovers?  NO!  Because scum knew they were both town.  Sudgy and/or his lover is/are scum.
I disagree with this -- our poison doctor is gone. I'm pretty confident that nkirbit was the poison target and NOT the attempted night kill. If he was the attempted night kill, I think he dies with normal flavor.
Well nkirbit's coma is hurting us because we need 4/6 people to agree for a lynch.  mail-mi, where do you stand on the sudgy lynch?
It will be very hard to convince me to vote for him. This has town sudgy written all over it. Town!sudgy is always suspected early on in the game.

Now, if hes still alive tomorrow I will be a bit more suspicious of him.
What's the "this"?  I don't see anything relevant in the quotes you included.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1282 on: June 12, 2013, 12:41:46 pm »

sudgy and Eevee, what are your thoughts about mail-mi?
Well, earlier I thought despite his play feeling scummy, it actually fits a town narrative better.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1283 on: June 12, 2013, 12:43:47 pm »

Sudgy's lover. If Sudgy is town, his claim was truthful, and he has a lover, who's DEFINITELY town.

I'm pretty tired, so maybe I'm being dense, but what makes town!sudgy's lover definitely also town?

Sudgy's lover was one of the women from 2 gentlemen of verona, forget their names. Unknown which one. But both were definitely good people in shakespeare, and role presupposes alignment, so therefore if Sudgy is town, his lover is town.
If we go by this logic, then Proteus was real scum.  He tries to rape Silvia towards the end of the play.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1284 on: June 12, 2013, 12:55:17 pm »

@raerae: nkirbit was not the scum kill. Consider this a fact. Next, if sudgy is scum, why isn't there a scum kill??. What doctor in thier right mind would protect someone other than sudgy??
No.  No, I will not.  I believe kermit was the ATTEMPTED night kill and somebody saved him sort of. Consider:  I'm pushing the hell out of lynch a claimed lover and there is plenty of resistance.  Was there for the other set of lovers?  NO!  Because scum knew they were both town.  Sudgy and/or his lover is/are scum.
I disagree with this -- our poison doctor is gone. I'm pretty confident that nkirbit was the poison target and NOT the attempted night kill. If he was the attempted night kill, I think he dies with normal flavor.
Well nkirbit's coma is hurting us because we need 4/6 people to agree for a lynch.  mail-mi, where do you stand on the sudgy lynch?
It will be very hard to convince me to vote for him. This has town sudgy written all over it. Town!sudgy is always suspected early on in the game.

Now, if hes still alive tomorrow I will be a bit more suspicious of him.
What's the "this"?  I don't see anything relevant in the quotes you included.
His entire play. (Pun intended.)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1285 on: June 12, 2013, 01:28:01 pm »

I think I want to lynch Sudgy today, I just don't see him being town.

Vote: Sudgy

Eevee, I know you don't want to claim, but it looks like we're stalemated here. Sudgy's obviously not going to vote, and if you won't and mail-mi won't, we're in a crappy position. I don't like any of the other options, honestly. EFHW probably, but I'm starting to feel like that's more of a shot in the dark than anything else.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1286 on: June 12, 2013, 01:30:22 pm »

How about we lynch twisted for continuing to push this very pro-scum notion?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1287 on: June 12, 2013, 01:32:33 pm »

It's pro-scum from your point of you. You have yet to convince me that your point of view is correct. I don't take your word for it, at all, and if you want to convince me, I'll need something more from you. Sorry.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1288 on: June 12, 2013, 01:32:48 pm »

How about we lynch twisted for continuing to push this very pro-scum notion?
I could see that. Although I'd still rather lynch you.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1289 on: June 12, 2013, 01:33:18 pm »

How about we lynch twisted for continuing to push this very pro-scum notion?
What's the pro-scum notion?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1290 on: June 12, 2013, 01:33:40 pm »

@twisted:
@raerae: nkirbit was not the scum kill. Consider this a fact. Next, if sudgy is scum, why isn't there a scum kill??. What doctor in thier right mind would protect someone other than sudgy??

@ash: your sig still says D1, by the way.
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'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1291 on: June 12, 2013, 01:34:00 pm »

How about we lynch twisted for continuing to push this very pro-scum notion?
What's the pro-scum notion?
Lynching sudgy.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1292 on: June 12, 2013, 01:35:11 pm »

How about we lynch twisted for continuing to push this very pro-scum notion?
What's the pro-scum notion?
Oh, I guess you mean voting sudgy.  I don't see that as pro-scum.  You have voted for me.  That's pro-scum from my perspective!  Who would you see as my partner, by the way?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1293 on: June 12, 2013, 01:35:26 pm »

Also, if sudgy and his lover are town, we pretty much lose by lynching him. Food for thought.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1294 on: June 12, 2013, 01:35:31 pm »

@twisted:
@raerae: nkirbit was not the scum kill. Consider this a fact. Next, if sudgy is scum, why isn't there a scum kill??. What doctor in thier right mind would protect someone other than sudgy??

@ash: your sig still says D1, by the way.

Sudgy is scum and wasn't targeted. I could explain a missing night kill that didn't target Sudgy, and I believe that's EXACTLY what happened last night.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1295 on: June 12, 2013, 01:36:41 pm »

Also, if sudgy and his lover are town, we pretty much lose by lynching him. Food for thought.

Yes, and this is why it's confusing to me that Eevee won't claim ANYTHING.

If Eevee is town, and Sudgy is town, and Sudgy's partner is town, how is Eevee claiming going to be any more detrimental to town than saving two town members!! If I'm town Eevee, and I have PROOF that Sudgy is town, I'm all over that, and I make sure 100% that Sudgy DOES NOT GET LYNCHED.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1296 on: June 12, 2013, 01:36:57 pm »

than not saving two town members***
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1297 on: June 12, 2013, 01:41:39 pm »

Hypothetical role "You are sudgy's lover, and you love him so much that you use your medical expertise to protect him on all even nights.".
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1298 on: June 12, 2013, 01:42:30 pm »

The anti-town notion is saying "Eevee, I think you are probably town" and then not trusting me that lynching sudgy / making me claim to avoid that is a bad idea for town. Starting to feel like scum wanting to weed out a claim from me to make more informed night decisions.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1299 on: June 12, 2013, 01:42:47 pm »

Also, if sudgy and his lover are town, we pretty much lose by lynching him. Food for thought.

Yes, and this is why it's confusing to me that Eevee won't claim ANYTHING.

If Eevee is town, and Sudgy is town, and Sudgy's partner is town, how is Eevee claiming going to be any more detrimental to town than saving two town members!! If I'm town Eevee, and I have PROOF that Sudgy is town, I'm all over that, and I make sure 100% that Sudgy DOES NOT GET LYNCHED.
He said he doesn't have proof.  It's something he's reasoned out.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1300 on: June 12, 2013, 01:43:11 pm »

Hypothetical role "You are sudgy's lover, and you love him so much that you use your medical expertise to protect him on all even nights.".

I'd still bet on Sudgy being scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1301 on: June 12, 2013, 01:44:30 pm »

The anti-town notion is saying "Eevee, I think you are probably town" and then not trusting me that lynching sudgy / making me claim to avoid that is a bad idea for town. Starting to feel like scum wanting to weed out a claim from me to make more informed night decisions.

No, I want to get the correct lynch today, at any cost. If we mislynch, there's no guarantee that we even have a D3. I think ending the game on a mislynch, and having information that hasn't been revealed, is awful.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1302 on: June 12, 2013, 01:45:03 pm »

Hypothetical role "You are sudgy's lover, and you love him so much that you use your medical expertise to protect him on all even nights.".

I'd still bet on Sudgy being scum.
WHY? HOW? "Sup I'm a doctor that can only protect a scum player."

What makes you so sure sudgy is scum? His role makes way more sense for town. Someone you believe to be town is telling you he is probably town. Is it just being a claimed lover and alive? Because you know protective roles / scum being afraid of them?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1303 on: June 12, 2013, 01:45:30 pm »

The anti-town notion is saying "Eevee, I think you are probably town" and then not trusting me that lynching sudgy / making me claim to avoid that is a bad idea for town. Starting to feel like scum wanting to weed out a claim from me to make more informed night decisions.

No, I want to get the correct lynch today, at any cost. If we mislynch, there's no guarantee that we even have a D3. I think ending the game on a mislynch, and having information that hasn't been revealed, is awful.
If nkirbit isn't dead then we are not in mylo.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1304 on: June 12, 2013, 01:45:49 pm »

The anti-town notion is saying "Eevee, I think you are probably town" and then not trusting me that lynching sudgy / making me claim to avoid that is a bad idea for town. Starting to feel like scum wanting to weed out a claim from me to make more informed night decisions.

No, I want to get the correct lynch today, at any cost. If we mislynch, there's no guarantee that we even have a D3. I think ending the game on a mislynch, and having information that hasn't been revealed, is awful.
I think revealing the information to avoid that mislynch when it can be avoided without revealing it is awful as well.

Say I'm the role I just made up. You want scum to have that information?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1305 on: June 12, 2013, 01:46:13 pm »

The anti-town notion is saying "Eevee, I think you are probably town" and then not trusting me that lynching sudgy / making me claim to avoid that is a bad idea for town. Starting to feel like scum wanting to weed out a claim from me to make more informed night decisions.

No, I want to get the correct lynch today, at any cost. If we mislynch, there's no guarantee that we even have a D3. I think ending the game on a mislynch, and having information that hasn't been revealed, is awful.
If nkirbit isn't dead then we are not in mylo.

I think nkirbit is dead after today/tonight.

I think he got poisoned. Poison doctor could have brought him back to life, but poison doctor is gone now.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1306 on: June 12, 2013, 01:46:36 pm »

Hypothetical role "You are sudgy's lover, and you love him so much that you use your medical expertise to protect him on all even nights.".

I'd still bet on Sudgy being scum.
WHY? HOW? "Sup I'm a doctor that can only protect a scum player."

What makes you so sure sudgy is scum? His role makes way more sense for town. Someone you believe to be town is telling you he is probably town. Is it just being a claimed lover and alive? Because you know protective roles / scum being afraid of them?
The Proteus role does not make sense as town.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1307 on: June 12, 2013, 01:46:54 pm »

Is TA making sense to other people?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1308 on: June 12, 2013, 01:47:05 pm »

I'm sudgy's lover. It's way better for scum to kill one of us than it is the other. If I claim, they'll be able to make a very informed decision tonight. I hate that you are dragging this out of me, but for the love of god lets lynch someone else.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1309 on: June 12, 2013, 01:48:20 pm »

Hypothetical role "You are sudgy's lover, and you love him so much that you use your medical expertise to protect him on all even nights.".

I'd still bet on Sudgy being scum.
WHY? HOW? "Sup I'm a doctor that can only protect a scum player."

What makes you so sure sudgy is scum? His role makes way more sense for town. Someone you believe to be town is telling you he is probably town. Is it just being a claimed lover and alive? Because you know protective roles / scum being afraid of them?

Flavor claim is scummy. I don't think lover-cop makes much sense when there's no scum in the other lover-pairs. Sudgy being alive IS fishy, and I don't think he was the NK target last night. The fact that the other lover hasn't claimed is fishy (I think I have PoE'd who it is, though).
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1310 on: June 12, 2013, 01:52:26 pm »

Vote: TA Scum is really trying to push this lover lunch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1311 on: June 12, 2013, 01:54:11 pm »

Vote: TA
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1312 on: June 12, 2013, 01:54:20 pm »

I'm sudgy's lover. It's way better for scum to kill one of us than it is the other. If I claim, they'll be able to make a very informed decision tonight. I hate that you are dragging this out of me, but for the love of god lets lynch someone else.

1) Why did you have a scum read on Sudgy D1? Was that fake?

2) Do you have mod-confirmation that Sudgy is town?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1313 on: June 12, 2013, 01:57:45 pm »

I'm sudgy's lover. It's way better for scum to kill one of us than it is the other. If I claim, they'll be able to make a very informed decision tonight. I hate that you are dragging this out of me, but for the love of god lets lynch someone else.

1) Why did you have a scum read on Sudgy D1? Was that fake?

2) Do you have mod-confirmation that Sudgy is town?
I think he's still talking about the hypothetical situation.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1314 on: June 12, 2013, 02:00:05 pm »

I had a scum read on sudgy until his claim. Then I learnt he is my lover and the scum read went away. So no, it wasn't fake at all.

I do not have. It's similar to the doctor-example I gave earlier, I think I can glean it from how our roles are set up.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1315 on: June 12, 2013, 02:07:07 pm »

I had a scum read on sudgy until his claim. Then I learnt he is my lover and the scum read went away. So no, it wasn't fake at all.

I do not have. It's similar to the doctor-example I gave earlier, I think I can glean it from how our roles are set up.

This isn't the impression I got from your post-claim posts. The following posts all take place immediately after your claim.


Okay.  So we can just have sudgy whisper someone trustworthy tonight. I would pick eevee.

Are we sure that role is town?
It could be a creative scum role, why not?

The people how know their Shakespeare: does it make any sense thematically to be lovers and not know the person you are in love with? Isn't that like very weird?

I think I'm fine with letting sudgy live and having him whisper me.

I'm confident sudgy's claim is true. So if we lynch him two people die. Should we have silvia/julia claim? I don't think so. Should we have silvia/julia just say who they are?
I'm thinking absolutely not. Let's just not lynch sudgy and deal with that tomorrow.


You unvoted, but immediately said it could be a creative scum role. Now you're saying it couldn't be a creative scum role, and are incredulous at the idea of a scum whisperer.

You also were fine with the idea of Sudgy whispering you. If you're his lover, you already have confirmation of his existence, and it would be more logical to have him whisper anyone else.

Also, I don't believe that you were unaware of his existence. It makes sense that he wouldn't be aware of you, but that you would be aware of him.

Still on board with a Sudgy lynch. Would love to hear from EFHW and Raerae regarding this.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1316 on: June 12, 2013, 02:08:20 pm »

I had a scum read on sudgy until his claim. Then I learnt he is my lover and the scum read went away. So no, it wasn't fake at all.

I do not have. It's similar to the doctor-example I gave earlier, I think I can glean it from how our roles are set up.
Oh so you are his lover. Hm. Hm indeed. Well, only want to lynch one person today, not two which could lose us the game, this explains Eevee's switch on lovers, and TA seems similar to himself in liopoils blitz game.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1317 on: June 12, 2013, 02:12:38 pm »

Well, I wanted to avoid it becoming totally obvious..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1318 on: June 12, 2013, 02:15:32 pm »

I had a scum read on sudgy until his claim. Then I learnt he is my lover and the scum read went away. So no, it wasn't fake at all.

I do not have. It's similar to the doctor-example I gave earlier, I think I can glean it from how our roles are set up.
Oh so you are his lover. Hm. Hm indeed. Well, only want to lynch one person today, not two which could lose us the game, this explains Eevee's switch on lovers, and TA seems similar to himself in liopoils blitz game.

How on earth am I similar to myself in that game? If you're going to make broad sweeping statements like that, please at least back it up with some proof.

I am scared I am throwing this game away for town...but I am pretty sure I am correct on Sudgy being scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1319 on: June 12, 2013, 02:17:06 pm »

Ta, we usually see eye to eye so well. Why is it not happening here?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1320 on: June 12, 2013, 02:19:49 pm »

I had a scum read on sudgy until his claim. Then I learnt he is my lover and the scum read went away. So no, it wasn't fake at all.

I do not have. It's similar to the doctor-example I gave earlier, I think I can glean it from how our roles are set up.
Oh so you are his lover. Hm. Hm indeed. Well, only want to lynch one person today, not two which could lose us the game, this explains Eevee's switch on lovers, and TA seems similar to himself in liopoils blitz game.

How on earth am I similar to myself in that game? If you're going to make broad sweeping statements like that, please at least back it up with some proof.

I am scared I am throwing this game away for town...but I am pretty sure I am correct on Sudgy being scum.
That's really just a minor point. The fact that you are trying to get lovers lynched, one of which I'm 95% sure is town, and the other I'm right in the middle on, and that if we lunch then we could very likely lose the game is the big part.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1321 on: June 12, 2013, 02:21:06 pm »

Yeah, it's odd, last game we played we were on the same page for most of it.

I'm not sure, I guess it's a combination of different information, and a different approach to today? We were even on the same page for most of D1, I think. I guess it's just a matter of taking two completely different sides to such an important question.

Is there a scenario, given what you know, where it does make complete sense that Sudgy could be scum? Like, if Sudgy's scum, does everything blow up, or is it simply a matter of "given what I know, I highly assume that Sudgy is town, but it's still slightly possible he COULD be scum, even if I don't think it".

I think most of our difference is coming from different assumptions that we're making
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1322 on: June 12, 2013, 02:23:34 pm »

oh, the latter, for sure. imagine a doc that can only save a certain player, you kind of
assume the other guy is town if you are, you know? I think that's a good analogy for this situation.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1323 on: June 12, 2013, 02:30:17 pm »

oh, the latter, for sure. imagine a doc that can only save a certain player, you kind of
assume the other guy is town if you are, you know? I think that's a good analogy for this situation.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I still think you're wrong, though. :P

Here's a fun exercise:

If Sudgy is scum, who would his partner be?

My guess is almost certainly not Eevee. I don't see any way Eevee is scum and doing this. Actually, I don't Eevee being scum in general. If he's scum, and Sudgy is scum, it's way, way, way too risky to pull this off. And there's no case where I can see him being scum and Sudgy is town, barring a counterclaim. So I think Eevee is conf town to me.

I'm not sure if Raerae or EFHW would bus their scum buddy. I don't think they would have jumped on him like that.

That leaves mail-mi or nkirbit. If it's nkirbit, we'll find out anyway. If it's mail-mi, then I think I know what his role is.

My best bet right now is Sudgy/mail-mi (and if it's not mail-mi, nkirbit).

Now, if Sudgy ISN'T scum, that means 2/3 of (EFHW, Raerae, Mail-mi) are scum. And I think possibly nkirbit as well, although that's probably less likely.

I will think about this and come back to it.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1324 on: June 12, 2013, 02:31:09 pm »

Btw, Eevee, I know you're going to bring up the point that if I think you're town, I should believe you on Sudgy! and I do think I know exactly what you're saying, but I just disagree with the likelihood that Sudgy is scum.

Do you think you're getting through to me, or do you still think there's part of your argument that I don't understand?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1325 on: June 12, 2013, 02:37:46 pm »

Okay, that post did make more sense.. except that the conclusion I think it brings you/me/us to is that sudgy is town indeed and scum is just hanging around in the background!

Really really doesn't make me want to lynch sudgy at alll. I think any of you could be scum really and probably are too!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1326 on: June 12, 2013, 02:45:19 pm »

And I am not scum, therefore I am not sudgy's partner. If I was scum, I would either A) just go with the lynch because it wins me the game, or B) bus my partner Eevee/sudgy because I would still be in a good position.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1327 on: June 12, 2013, 02:47:17 pm »

And I am not scum, therefore I am not sudgy's partner. If I was scum, I would either A) just go with the lynch because it wins me the game, or B) bus my partner Eevee/sudgy because I would still be in a good position.

Or you could oppose the lynch, as it's VERY clear that it's not going through without your support.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1328 on: June 12, 2013, 02:47:36 pm »

Okay, that post did make more sense.. except that the conclusion I think it brings you/me/us to is that sudgy is town indeed and scum is just hanging around in the background!

Really really doesn't make me want to lynch sudgy at alll. I think any of you could be scum really and probably are too!

Who's your scum reads out of myself/EFHW/raerae?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1329 on: June 12, 2013, 02:51:33 pm »

Okay, that post did make more sense.. except that the conclusion I think it brings you/me/us to is that sudgy is town indeed and scum is just hanging around in the background!

Really really doesn't make me want to lynch sudgy at alll. I think any of you could be scum really and probably are too!

Who's your scum reads out of myself/EFHW/raerae?

I'll answer this too. Order from scummiest to least:

TA: reasons already stated.
EFHW: mostly a null-to-slight-scum read here, could maybe lynch her.
raerae: town, doesn't seem at all like herself in bankers.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1330 on: June 12, 2013, 02:52:09 pm »

And I am not scum, therefore I am not sudgy's partner. If I was scum, I would either A) just go with the lynch because it wins me the game, or B) bus my partner Eevee/sudgy because I would still be in a good position.

Or you could oppose the lynch, as it's VERY clear that it's not going through without your support.

Then that's good. Because i don't want to lynch two townies because I'm not scum and I don't want to lose.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1331 on: June 12, 2013, 02:53:20 pm »

That's the second read you've made saying "he seems like his scum self in that game" or "she doesn't seem like her scum self from that game".

If I recall correctly, this is the EXACT thing that Mcmc found you scummy for in Samurai and Ninjas. You were making reads on him based on how he read compared to other games, without posting examples until he badgered you again and again and again. You were also scum in that game.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1332 on: June 12, 2013, 02:54:36 pm »

Can you please give explicit examples as to how I seem like my scum self, and how Raerae doesn't seem like her scum self?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1333 on: June 12, 2013, 03:08:10 pm »

And I am not scum, therefore I am not sudgy's partner. If I was scum, I would either A) just go with the lynch because it wins me the game, or B) bus my partner Eevee/sudgy because I would still be in a good position.

Scumslip??

If you're town, wouldn't you just stop after "I am not scum". Instead, you go forward to say that you are not Sudgy's partner. But you have a town read on Sudgy, so from your point of view, he doesn't have a partner, since he's not scum in your eyes.

I am coming around to a Sudgy/mail-mi team. With Eevee being Sudgy's partner and mail-mi possibly having his own lover partner, as well. It all would fit together perfectly.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1334 on: June 12, 2013, 03:08:33 pm »

And I am not scum, therefore I am not sudgy's partner. If I was scum, I would either A) just go with the lynch because it wins me the game, or B) bus my partner Eevee/sudgy because I would still be in a good position.

Scumslip??

If you're town, wouldn't you just stop after "I am not scum". Instead, you go forward to say that you are not Sudgy's partner. But you have a town read on Sudgy, so from your point of view, he doesn't have a partner, since he's not scum in your eyes.

I am coming around to a Sudgy/mail-mi team. With Eevee being Sudgy's partner and mail-mi possibly having his own lover partner, as well. It all would fit together perfectly.

To be more explicit, you are saying that Sudgy DOES have a partner?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1335 on: June 12, 2013, 03:10:25 pm »

And I am not scum, therefore I am not sudgy's partner. If I was scum, I would either A) just go with the lynch because it wins me the game, or B) bus my partner Eevee/sudgy because I would still be in a good position.

Scumslip??

If you're town, wouldn't you just stop after "I am not scum". Instead, you go forward to say that you are not Sudgy's partner. But you have a town read on Sudgy, so from your point of view, he doesn't have a partner, since he's not scum in your eyes.

I am coming around to a Sudgy/mail-mi team. With Eevee being Sudgy's partner and mail-mi possibly having his own lover partner, as well. It all would fit together perfectly.

To be more explicit, you are saying that Sudgy DOES have a partner?
I'm using you point of view and explaining from it why it's wrong.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1336 on: June 12, 2013, 03:15:52 pm »

Mail-mi, care to explain how I'm similar to how I was in the blitz game?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1337 on: June 12, 2013, 03:18:02 pm »

When I have time and when I'm on an actual computer, yes.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1338 on: June 12, 2013, 03:55:24 pm »

Re-reading the thread and assuming mail-mi and Sudgy are partners kind of fits, actually.

Mail-mi doesn't really engage Sudgy all D1. Says he's got a town-read on Sudgy, though, and that we shouldn't vote for him.

Sudgy puts early pressure on mail-mi for not answering questions, but quickly switches his vote to nkirbit when he gets the chance. There's very little interaction later. When he had to vote a lurker, he chose Eevee first, then quickly switched off to mail-mi when raerae called him out.

D2, Sudgy says we shouldn't vote mail-mi to avoid a quick hammer, but has no response to the actual case on mail-mi. This fits pretty well with how I think scum would interact.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1339 on: June 12, 2013, 06:11:03 pm »

Vote Count Act II.VIII:

Twistedarcher (2): mail-mi, Eevee
sudgy (3): raerae, EFHW,Twistedarcher {L-1}

Not Voting (1): sudgy

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Act II ends on June 20th at 7:00 p.m.

Your three free days have been used up.  You are now on banked time.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1340 on: June 12, 2013, 09:14:51 pm »

Ta, we usually see eye to eye so well. Why is it not happening here?
Buddying?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1341 on: June 12, 2013, 09:20:18 pm »

And I am not scum, therefore I am not sudgy's partner. If I was scum, I would either A) just go with the lynch because it wins me the game, or B) bus my partner Eevee/sudgy because I would still be in a good position.

Scumslip??

If you're town, wouldn't you just stop after "I am not scum". Instead, you go forward to say that you are not Sudgy's partner. But you have a town read on Sudgy, so from your point of view, he doesn't have a partner, since he's not scum in your eyes.

I am coming around to a Sudgy/mail-mi team. With Eevee being Sudgy's partner and mail-mi possibly having his own lover partner, as well. It all would fit together perfectly.

No, Ash, it's a perfectly reasonable response to the question which could be answered a multitude of ways, all meaning virtually the same thing.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1342 on: June 12, 2013, 09:22:43 pm »

Well, I wanted to avoid it becoming totally obvious..
I believe you that you are sudgy's lover, but the rest of your logic doesn't seem obvious to me.  sudgy is town because you are?  Do you think town/scum lovers is impossible?  Really, letting us know you are sudgy's lover has the main effect of saving yourself and doesn't provide evidence that clears either of you.  I understand your not wanting to give scum information that would help direct their nk, but I don't really think you've advanced sudgy's towniness at all.  Is there anything else you would feel safe to add?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1343 on: June 12, 2013, 09:25:05 pm »

Vote: TwistedArcher

With two lovers claimed, he's still trying to lynch us (as everybody else has been saying).  I think this is enough for me.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1344 on: June 12, 2013, 09:27:07 pm »

And note, that's L-1, no quickhammering.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1345 on: June 12, 2013, 09:28:50 pm »

I have another question - sudgy says his lover is either Julia or Silvia.  Assuming for the moment that this is true, do Julia and Silvia know which of them is the real lover?  I think they would both be in the game in case of flavorname claiming. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1346 on: June 12, 2013, 09:43:44 pm »

Addressing a few things but not quoting because I'm a lazy drunk.

1).  Sudgy's role and whether it does or does not make sense as a scum role:  I 100% believe it does make sense as a scum role.  You are given the opportunity to sway somebody to your side of things.  For instance, you could say, 'Hey so-and-so, I totally super think you're town, we should hang out...' and so-and-so, knowing they are town, could say, 'Look!  Somebody finally gets me!  That person is obviously town because they can read me correctly!'  Or, you could say 'Hey so-and-so, I have information X, Y, and Z and you should vote with me because of that...oh, and I think you're town,' and BOOM! another vote with scum.  Obviously, this goes both ways so I don't think we decide solely based on the role.

2)  EFHW, if you are town, a little more conversation would be fabulous.  I know I soured you a little bit with Pirates but would really appreciate some thoughts.  But only if you're town, cool?  If you're scum, maybe you can just ignore this game, k?

3)  Let's just go over this one more time, IF both sets of lovers are town, scum could have won this game before D2.  Seriously, I'm going to make this a little bigger so ya'll read it.

4)  Eevee claimed.  Can everybody else please NOT do that?  Cool.

5)  mail-mi keeps saying he won't vote for sudgy but doesn't acknowledge the oddity of sudgy (claimed lover, one more time for those of you who missed it) being alive, he just keeps telling us to trust his half-baked two night kill jibber-jab.

6)  Eevee, I understand you don't want to die.  I support that.  But you seem to be basing the majority of your sudgy read on your alignment.  Is there anything else you can tell us, without more claiming, that will help your situation?  If not, do you understand the logic behind the suspicion surrounding sudgy?

7)  mail-mi, once upon a time (earlier today) you advocated lynching Eevee.  Do you still support that considering his claim?

8 )  Regarding a softdeadline, I can't commit to anything.  I'm making a giant move in a few weeks and planning/packing takes priority.  That said...I am out of town next Tuesday - Thursday nights...
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1347 on: June 12, 2013, 09:46:06 pm »

Ugh. Darn it, that's two scum (Sudgy + mail-mi) on my wagon.

Eevee, I know it's hard to consider lynching yourself, but, I really do think Sudgy is scum.

Sudgy's vote on me is on the justification that I am still considering lynching two claimed lovers. Yeah well, so if EFHW! and so is Raerae! He's just desperate to not get lynched himself, since, he's scum.

I am pretty sure I know what mail-mi's role is, if he's scum, btw.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1348 on: June 12, 2013, 09:47:29 pm »

Does anyone think that lovercop makes sense in a situation where there's no scum in a loverpair? To me, it makes no sense. There must be at least one lover pair that has scum, and I'm pretty sure that it's Sudgy.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1349 on: June 12, 2013, 09:48:01 pm »

WAIT A SECOND!!  Voting TA over voting me???  Who's scummy now.  Why is one of us, both of whom have been pushing damn hard for sudgy's lynch, more scummy than the other.  Analyzing the shit out of this wagon right now.

It's mail-mi, Eevee, and sudgy, otherwise known as the possible partner, the recently claimed lover, and the scummy lover.

Are we in a legitimate stalemate?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1350 on: June 12, 2013, 09:48:33 pm »

If Sudgy lynch absolutely isn't going to fly, EFHW and Raerae, are you still up for mail-mi? It looks like this is only going to happen if Eevee self-hammers, which is a tough sell I admit.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1351 on: June 12, 2013, 09:48:59 pm »

I think we could get Eevee over to a mail-mi lynch. But yeah we're pretty stalemated right now.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1352 on: June 12, 2013, 09:51:11 pm »

I like the sudgy lynch more but will try to be less stubborn and consider mail-mi.  I do hate calling teams though.  It's rarely works well in my experience.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1353 on: June 12, 2013, 09:54:26 pm »

Alright, here's what I'm thinking because of who's voting for who:

Vote Count Act II.sudgy:

Twistedarcher (3): mail-mi, Eevee, sudgy {L-1}
sudgy (3): raerae, EFHW,Twistedarcher {L-1}

First, TA and I can't both be town.  One of us would get quickhammered by scum at this point (because it's mylo, and scum would win (assuming nkirbit is dead, which I think he is)).

Second, I think two scum are on my wagon (I would be quickhammered by now if not).  I think it's TA and one of the other two, I would probably choose EFHW.

I thought I had more going there, but I can't think of anything else I could say with what I know.  Oh well.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1354 on: June 12, 2013, 09:58:13 pm »

I think the fact that we're stalemated at 3v3 means that we're pretty firmly set into town vs. scum. Now, given that we more than likely have 4 town and 2 scum alive, that means we have one town misplaced on the wrong side. That town member is Eevee, who of course has decent reason to join up with Sudgy and mail-mi.

Regardless, can anyone think of a situation where Eevee is scum? His ONLY possible scum partner is Sudgy. I'm basically going to treat Eevee as an IC at this point, even though I completely disagree with where his vote is (I can understand his train of thought, though.)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1355 on: June 12, 2013, 10:00:01 pm »

Haha, Sudgy just came out with the same argument, but from his point of view.

Here are the possible scum teams (excluding stuff with nkirbit):

Eevee-Sudgy
Mail-mi-Sudgy
Two of (TA, Raerae, EFHW)

Of course, I know the third choice is wrong, and I highly, highly, highly doubt Raerae and EFHW are a team at this point. Therefore, I'm forced to conclude that Sudgy is scum. Now, I doubt we can get rid of scum in one fell swoop, so I'm pretty sure the team is Mail-mi - Sudgy.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1356 on: June 12, 2013, 10:10:49 pm »

@raerae: No I am not still considering Eegee.

If I am wrong about this I'm gonna be so mad at myself, but this is so town!sudgy.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1357 on: June 12, 2013, 10:12:05 pm »

I'm voting with my only town reads and am absolutely not moving.

The townie in the villains camp, really consider your situation! I feel each and every one of you could be scum, but the one who isn't needs to flip as scum is not going to.

Even your side agrees I'm an IC and I think this. You can 100% blame the loss on me if sudgy is scum.


Raerae, ehfw and ta, you read my doctor example. Consider that's my role. Would you ever consider voting sudgy in that case? ignore the fact that "he must be scum or the game would be over", this is rmm and the people responsible for missing night kills do not want to claim. I'm almost positive raerae is scum for not realizing this.

ta is almost guaranteed to be scum as well as he isn't getting hammered though, right?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1358 on: June 12, 2013, 10:12:32 pm »

@raerae: No I am not still considering Eegee.

If I am wrong about this I'm gonna be so mad at myself, but this is so town!sudgy.
we need to make the townie voting for sudgy to come with us.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1359 on: June 12, 2013, 10:13:24 pm »

Vote Count Act II.sudgy:
Twistedarcher (3): mail-mi, Eevee, sudgy {L-1}
sudgy (3): raerae, EFHW,Twistedarcher {L-1}

First, TA and I can't both be town.  One of us would get quickhammered by scum at this point ...
Second, I think two scum are on my wagon (I would be quickhammered by now if not).  I think it's TA and one of the other two, I would probably choose EFHW.

Could just as easily be that TA is town and the scum are on his wagon.  But yes, it does seem like the scum are likely to be on the same wagon.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1360 on: June 12, 2013, 10:16:59 pm »

TA is scum, and either raerae or efhw needs to be convinced that's the case.

mail-mi and sudgy, please please let's stay strong and not give mafia the win.

efhw and raerae, I don't know which of you we should be convincing. I'm actually thinking raerae-ta for the scum team now.

do you both accept me as an IC?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1361 on: June 12, 2013, 10:17:05 pm »

Raerae, ehfw and ta, you read my doctor example. Consider that's my role. Would you ever consider voting sudgy in that case?
Can you spell that out for me?  Sorry, I'm not getting all the implications.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1362 on: June 12, 2013, 10:18:59 pm »

Raerae, ehfw and ta, you read my doctor example. Consider that's my role. Would you ever consider voting sudgy in that case?
Can you spell that out for me?  Sorry, I'm not getting all the implications.
Hypothetical scenario, I'm town and lovers with sudgy, and my role is to be an even night doctor that can only target sudgy. Would it make any sense for sudgy to be town?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1363 on: June 12, 2013, 10:19:47 pm »

Raerae, ehfw and ta, you read my doctor example. Consider that's my role. Would you ever consider voting sudgy in that case?
Can you spell that out for me?  Sorry, I'm not getting all the implications.
Hypothetical scenario, I'm town and lovers with sudgy, and my role is to be an even night doctor that can only target sudgy. Would it make any sense for sudgy to be scum?

edit: town -> scum obviously
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1364 on: June 12, 2013, 10:21:27 pm »

Raerae, ehfw and ta, you read my doctor example. Consider that's my role. Would you ever consider voting sudgy in that case?
Can you spell that out for me?  Sorry, I'm not getting all the implications.
Hypothetical scenario, I'm town and lovers with sudgy, and my role is to be an even night doctor that can only target sudgy. Would it make any sense for sudgy to be town?
I think you mean to be scum?  I can see where the doctor would feel screwed over if he were scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1365 on: June 12, 2013, 10:23:06 pm »

Raerae, ehfw and ta, you read my doctor example. Consider that's my role. Would you ever consider voting sudgy in that case?
Can you spell that out for me?  Sorry, I'm not getting all the implications.
Hypothetical scenario, I'm town and lovers with sudgy, and my role is to be an even night doctor that can only target sudgy. Would it make any sense for sudgy to be scum?

edit: town -> scum obviously

Yes, that's what we're trying to say!

You haven't answered this one: Would a lovercop make sense is there were no scum in lover pairs to find? Kind of useless for rooting out town only, right?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1366 on: June 12, 2013, 10:23:39 pm »

Yes, exactly. Sorry about that.

So, that's the direction I'm coming from with my sudgy read. Is that strong enough for you?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1367 on: June 12, 2013, 10:24:26 pm »

How did lio's role work exactly?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1368 on: June 12, 2013, 10:26:52 pm »

Went back, it was just like I thought. I don't understand how it implies there must be scum in lovers, can you explain that?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1369 on: June 12, 2013, 10:27:58 pm »

@raerae: No I am not still considering Eegee.

If I am wrong about this I'm gonna be so mad at myself, but this is so town!sudgy.
we need to make the townie voting for sudgy to come with us.
Yes EFHW or raerae come join us! (Mostly pointed at EFHW becuz raerae probably won't even if we say pretty please)
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1370 on: June 12, 2013, 10:28:05 pm »

(an aside,ehfw, raerae and ta haven't claimed anything about being or not being lovers nor should they, so sudgy actually could be town and the scum-town lover pair would still be possible)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1371 on: June 12, 2013, 10:28:15 pm »

Went back, it was just like I thought. I don't understand how it implies there must be scum in lovers, can you explain that?

It doesn't. But what's the utility of the role if there's NOT scum in them. I guess a role to confirm townies, but it seems like a really, really, really weak role unless there's scum in those lover pairs.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1372 on: June 12, 2013, 10:28:51 pm »

This is the newbie game all over with no Kooshie for the tie-breaker.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1373 on: June 12, 2013, 10:29:27 pm »

So Eevee, you realize you are risking the game here, right?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1374 on: June 12, 2013, 10:30:07 pm »

You know, I know you're all so, so, so against claiming.

But if we're so sure that the scum team is on one side or the other (and I'm sure it is, and it seems like most people are) perhaps we should consider claiming to completely analyze what's going to happen?

It's seeming like the game will be won or lost today. If that's truly the case, I'd rather everyone make their decisions after a massclaim, not before.

No one jump out and claim before it's confirmed, but we should talk about this, I think.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1375 on: June 12, 2013, 10:30:15 pm »

What's the case on TwistedArcher?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1376 on: June 12, 2013, 10:30:20 pm »

Went back, it was just like I thought. I don't understand how it implies there must be scum in lovers, can you explain that?

It doesn't. But what's the utility of the role if there's NOT scum in them. I guess a role to confirm townies, but it seems like a really, really, really weak role unless there's scum in those lover pairs.
How does there being or not being scum in the lover pairs have any bearing with that role's utility? Heck, isn't the role actually SIGNIFICANTLY stronger if all the lovers are town and each investigation has a chance at creating two ic's?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1377 on: June 12, 2013, 10:30:59 pm »

You couldn't pay me to claim.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1378 on: June 12, 2013, 10:31:15 pm »

What's the case on TwistedArcher?

I want to lynch Sudgy.

Same as the case on you, or EFHW.

Basically, the case is, I'm the person they could get Eevee to support.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1379 on: June 12, 2013, 10:31:18 pm »

So Eevee, you realize you are risking the game here, right?
I'm extremely confident, and you can all blame me if I'm drawing the wrong conclusions from what I know.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1380 on: June 12, 2013, 10:31:53 pm »

So Eevee, you realize you are risking the game here, right?
I'm extremely confident, and you can all blame me if I'm drawing the wrong conclusions from what I know.

I feel the same -- at least we see eye to eye on something! ;)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1381 on: June 12, 2013, 10:32:14 pm »



I appreciate the assistance but somebody on wagon needs to spell this out for me.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1382 on: June 12, 2013, 10:32:54 pm »

WAIT A SECOND!!  Voting TA over voting me???  Who's scummy now.  Why is one of us, both of whom have been pushing damn hard for sudgy's lynch, more scummy than the other.  Analyzing the shit out of this wagon right now.

It's mail-mi, Eevee, and sudgy, otherwise known as the possible partner, the recently claimed lover, and the scummy lover.

Are we in a legitimate stalemate?

One more time, kids, why is TA the scummiest of us all? 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1383 on: June 12, 2013, 10:33:39 pm »

TA, the thing is, as long as sudgy is town, you can't be, and I'm super eager to bet the game on that.

The problem with massclaiming is that most of the town are lovers so just identifying the scum team might not be enough. Lets not massclaim.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1384 on: June 12, 2013, 10:34:10 pm »

WAIT A SECOND!!  Voting TA over voting me???  Who's scummy now.  Why is one of us, both of whom have been pushing damn hard for sudgy's lynch, more scummy than the other.  Analyzing the shit out of this wagon right now.

It's mail-mi, Eevee, and sudgy, otherwise known as the possible partner, the recently claimed lover, and the scummy lover.

Are we in a legitimate stalemate?

One more time, kids, why is TA the scummiest of us all?
I'm not on the wagon, but the main thing that has seemed scummy to me has been the cases he made on nkirbit, lio and me.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1385 on: June 12, 2013, 10:34:24 pm »

TA, the thing is, as long as sudgy is town, you can't be, and I'm super eager to bet the game on that.

The problem with massclaiming is that most of the town are lovers so just identifying the scum team might not be enough. Lets not massclaim.

Why couldn't the team be EFHW/raerae?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1386 on: June 12, 2013, 10:34:38 pm »

WAIT A SECOND!!  Voting TA over voting me???  Who's scummy now.  Why is one of us, both of whom have been pushing damn hard for sudgy's lynch, more scummy than the other.  Analyzing the shit out of this wagon right now.

It's mail-mi, Eevee, and sudgy, otherwise known as the possible partner, the recently claimed lover, and the scummy lover.

Are we in a legitimate stalemate?

One more time, kids, why is TA the scummiest of us all?
If he was town, the team would have to be raerae-ehfw and either of you would have hammered him for the win long ago.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1387 on: June 12, 2013, 10:34:53 pm »

WAIT A SECOND!!  Voting TA over voting me???  Who's scummy now.  Why is one of us, both of whom have been pushing damn hard for sudgy's lynch, more scummy than the other.  Analyzing the shit out of this wagon right now.

It's mail-mi, Eevee, and sudgy, otherwise known as the possible partner, the recently claimed lover, and the scummy lover.

Are we in a legitimate stalemate?

One more time, kids, why is TA the scummiest of us all?
I'm not on the wagon, but the main thing that has seemed scummy to me has been the cases he made on nkirbit, lio and me.

0/3, I'm thinking :(
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1388 on: June 12, 2013, 10:35:15 pm »

TA, the thing is, as long as sudgy is town, you can't be, and I'm super eager to bet the game on that.

The problem with massclaiming is that most of the town are lovers so just identifying the scum team might not be enough. Lets not massclaim.

Why couldn't the team be EFHW/raerae?
Because you are still alive.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1389 on: June 12, 2013, 10:36:04 pm »

TA, the thing is, as long as sudgy is town, you can't be, and I'm super eager to bet the game on that.

The problem with massclaiming is that most of the town are lovers so just identifying the scum team might not be enough. Lets not massclaim.

Why couldn't the team be EFHW/raerae?
Because you are still alive.

This is a great point. And this has confirmed the sudgy-mail mi team for me.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1390 on: June 12, 2013, 10:37:14 pm »

WAIT A SECOND!!  Voting TA over voting me???  Who's scummy now.  Why is one of us, both of whom have been pushing damn hard for sudgy's lynch, more scummy than the other.  Analyzing the shit out of this wagon right now.

It's mail-mi, Eevee, and sudgy, otherwise known as the possible partner, the recently claimed lover, and the scummy lover.

Are we in a legitimate stalemate?

One more time, kids, why is TA the scummiest of us all?
If he was town, the team would have to be raerae-ehfw and either of you would have hammered him for the win long ago.

I still want to know the case on TA.  Like the reason you voted.  That thing.  I mean, our side has a case, yes we do, our side has a case, how 'bout you!?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1391 on: June 12, 2013, 10:38:15 pm »

Ehfw, I'm increasingly certain you are the townie. Read through the last page and see how painfully obvious it is that ta must be scum.

Ta, suddenly no interest in continuing the "lio's role means there must be scum" argument now that I pointed out it makes no sense?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1392 on: June 12, 2013, 10:38:32 pm »

We know there's 2 scum, 3 town voting correctly, and 1 misguided town. This is true for either side.

Eevee, don't you think you fit into that role of misguided town perfectly?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1393 on: June 12, 2013, 10:40:01 pm »

Ehfw, I'm increasingly certain you are the townie. Read through the last page and see how painfully obvious it is that ta must be scum.

Ta, suddenly no interest in continuing the "lio's role means there must be scum" argument now that I pointed out it makes no sense?

So, Raerae is the scum?

I concede that you may be correct on Lio's role, even though I disagree with you.  But I guess there's no way to confirm it either way. I think it only has utility catching scum. Creating ICs is useless if you're not 100% sure you're actually creating ICs!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1394 on: June 12, 2013, 10:40:52 pm »

WAIT A SECOND!!  Voting TA over voting me???  Who's scummy now.  Why is one of us, both of whom have been pushing damn hard for sudgy's lynch, more scummy than the other.  Analyzing the shit out of this wagon right now.

It's mail-mi, Eevee, and sudgy, otherwise known as the possible partner, the recently claimed lover, and the scummy lover.

Are we in a legitimate stalemate?

One more time, kids, why is TA the scummiest of us all?
If he was town, the team would have to be raerae-ehfw and either of you would have hammered him for the win long ago.

I still want to know the case on TA.  Like the reason you voted.  That thing.  I mean, our side has a case, yes we do, our side has a case, how 'bout you!?
It doesn't even matter anymore, scum has painted themselves in the corner. Despite, wasn't the cornerstone of your case liopoil's role meaning there must be scum in lovers? I've refuted that and I've explained why sudgy doesn't necessarily die in the night in a rmm game and why the people responsible wouldn't want to claim. Why is your side dodging my questions? Do you accept me for an ic?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1395 on: June 12, 2013, 10:42:53 pm »

How does confirming lover pairs, something that a townie would be 100% able to do anyways, make lio's role any stronger?

I think it's point was to make him able to whiteknight lovers under a lynch threat. A protective role of sorts, just like his lover xeiron.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1396 on: June 12, 2013, 10:43:17 pm »

I accept you for a misguided IC!

Sorry, why would Sudgy be alive?

I hate to ask you to claim more, but did you prevent Sudgy from being killed last night?

If no one can claim any reason why Sudgy would be alive, then that means it's more likely he's scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1397 on: June 12, 2013, 10:43:48 pm »

Ehfw, I'm increasingly certain you are the townie. Read through the last page and see how painfully obvious it is that ta must be scum.

Ta, suddenly no interest in continuing the "lio's role means there must be scum" argument now that I pointed out it makes no sense?

So, Raerae is the scum?

I concede that you may be correct on Lio's role, even though I disagree with you.  But I guess there's no way to confirm it either way. I think it only has utility catching scum. Creating ICs is useless if you're not 100% sure you're actually creating ICs!
Yes, I think raerae is scum.

And no, I don't think I'm a misguided townie as my narrative makes 100% sense while yours is full of holes.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1398 on: June 12, 2013, 10:44:20 pm »

Ok, Eevee, I hope you are right.  Intent to hammer.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1399 on: June 12, 2013, 10:44:36 pm »

I will not lose without claiming.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1400 on: June 12, 2013, 10:44:42 pm »

Hold up.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1401 on: June 12, 2013, 10:45:29 pm »

If we hammer me, Town loses the game . I think we should go through, and have all 6 people say if they have ANY way they could have protected Sudgy from the night kill last night.

For starters:

I did not protect Sudgy from the nightkill last night.

If everyone comes up with a no, then there's NO explanation for Sudgy being alive.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1402 on: June 12, 2013, 10:45:58 pm »

I accept you for a misguided IC!

Sorry, why would Sudgy be alive?

I hate to ask you to claim more, but did you prevent Sudgy from being killed last night?

If no one can claim any reason why Sudgy would be alive, then that means it's more likely he's scum.
You have been fishing for me to claim more and more about my role all day, way more than I was comfortable claiming. Now that I strongly suspect, dare I say know, that you are scum, I refuse to answer such inquiries and advice all other townies to do the same.

It's pretty obvious there is a plethora of roles that could cause the target of a night kill to live though.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1403 on: June 12, 2013, 10:46:24 pm »

If we hammer me, Town loses the game . I think we should go through, and have all 6 people say if they have ANY way they could have protected Sudgy from the night kill last night.

For starters:

I did not protect Sudgy from the nightkill last night.

If everyone comes up with a no, then there's NO explanation for Sudgy being alive.
Except we don't know what nkirbit might have done.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1404 on: June 12, 2013, 10:47:03 pm »

Efhw, lets have ta claim and go from there.  :)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1405 on: June 12, 2013, 10:47:22 pm »

I accept you for a misguided IC!

Sorry, why would Sudgy be alive?

I hate to ask you to claim more, but did you prevent Sudgy from being killed last night?

If no one can claim any reason why Sudgy would be alive, then that means it's more likely he's scum.
You have been fishing for me to claim more and more about my role all day, way more than I was comfortable claiming. Now that I strongly suspect, dare I say know, that you are scum, I refuse to answer such inquiries and advice all other townies to do the same.

It's pretty obvious there is a plethora of roles that could cause the target of a night kill to live though.

Right.

But if everyone claims no, and you are town, you will have to accept that no one protected Sudgy last night, correct? Unless you were the one to claim.

You can claim last, it doesn't really matter. I just want everyone to answer yes / no.

I am for claiming because I will not have us lose this game when there is information out there that WILL win the game for us.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1406 on: June 12, 2013, 10:48:29 pm »

EFHW, I understand you want to hammer. But can you please wait until we have all the information out there we need?

I have a suspected idea for what the setup is in this game. I'm unsure on a couple of things, but please let me post it before I get lynched. At the very least, I get to see how close I got!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1407 on: June 12, 2013, 10:49:04 pm »

raerae - where do you stand on TA claiming now?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1408 on: June 12, 2013, 10:49:10 pm »

We do not know scum tried to kill sudgy though!

I'm pretty sure it's ta-raerae and want ta to claim so efhw can hammer.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1409 on: June 12, 2013, 10:49:18 pm »

WAIT A SECOND!!  Voting TA over voting me???  Who's scummy now.  Why is one of us, both of whom have been pushing damn hard for sudgy's lynch, more scummy than the other.  Analyzing the shit out of this wagon right now.

It's mail-mi, Eevee, and sudgy, otherwise known as the possible partner, the recently claimed lover, and the scummy lover.

Are we in a legitimate stalemate?

One more time, kids, why is TA the scummiest of us all?
If he was town, the team would have to be raerae-ehfw and either of you would have hammered him for the win long ago.

I still want to know the case on TA.  Like the reason you voted.  That thing.  I mean, our side has a case, yes we do, our side has a case, how 'bout you!?
It doesn't even matter anymore, scum has painted themselves in the corner. Despite, wasn't the cornerstone of your case liopoil's role meaning there must be scum in lovers? I've refuted that and I've explained why sudgy doesn't necessarily die in the night in a rmm game and why the people responsible wouldn't want to claim. Why is your side dodging my questions? Do you accept me for an ic?

Like what the actual case is on the person you are voting for???  Oh wait, that's your side.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1410 on: June 12, 2013, 10:50:30 pm »

To start out with, I am Ophelia, X-shot commuter (is it important to say how many?). I also have a second power, but it's not one that I have used yet, and I'd rather not say it just in case I do survive.

When I said I could explain a missing night kill, that's how. I commuted last night. If scum targeted me, that explains the missing kill.

To start, I think we should consider if anyone else has an explanation for the missing kill. You might have another, but I'm guessing that you won't. I believe I was the NK target last night, and Nkirbit was the poison target last night.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1411 on: June 12, 2013, 10:51:19 pm »

raerae - where do you stand on TA claiming now?

EFHW, they still haven't produced a case on TA becuase there isn't one.  Don't hammer. 

I am willing to look at mail-mi, are you?  If not, who is TA's partner?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1412 on: June 12, 2013, 10:51:45 pm »

Flavor, yadda yadda, I can choose to leave town and go wail by the river if I so desire. Haven't read Hamlet ever so not sure what her role in that play is, except that she's obviously a good guy.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1413 on: June 12, 2013, 10:51:58 pm »

if raerae is not scum here then I don't know who ever was scum anywhere!

look, anything that happened before tonight is not even relevant. We got scum to paint themselves in the corner with ta continuing to push for sudgy while accepting me as an ic.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1414 on: June 12, 2013, 10:52:19 pm »

I had no way to protect sudgy last night.

I do want a full claim from TA if we are going to lynch him.

PPE: nvm just got it.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1415 on: June 12, 2013, 10:52:55 pm »

if raerae is not scum here then I don't know who ever was scum anywhere!

look, anything that happened before tonight is not even relevant. We got scum to paint themselves in the corner with ta continuing to push for sudgy while accepting me as an ic.

Because you are town while Sudgy is scum! Even if you disagree, you HAVE to see where we're coming from on this. EFHW and Raerae have made the exact same argument, as well.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1416 on: June 12, 2013, 10:53:19 pm »

To start, I think we should consider if anyone else has an explanation for the missing kill.
nkirbit as lightening rod or bodyguard.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1417 on: June 12, 2013, 10:53:35 pm »

Mail-mi did not protect sudgy last night.
I did not protect sudgy last night.
From his flavor claim, Sudgy did not protect sudgy last night.

Raerae, EFHW, did either of you protect Sudgy last night? Simple yes / no will suffice!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1418 on: June 12, 2013, 10:53:53 pm »

if raerae is not scum here then I don't know who ever was scum anywhere!

look, anything that happened before tonight is not even relevant. We got scum to paint themselves in the corner with ta continuing to push for sudgy while accepting me as an ic.

If you won't produce a case will you at least explain why you won't?  How am I scum for demanded you actually have a reason for voting the way you are?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1419 on: June 12, 2013, 10:54:11 pm »

To start, I think we should consider if anyone else has an explanation for the missing kill.
nkirbit as lightening rod or bodyguard.

Oooh could be.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1420 on: June 12, 2013, 10:54:39 pm »

That's a believable claim, but I don't see any other possible scum team. I wish people would stop claiming and just lynch TA (raerae I'm like sure of, TA I want to believe but can't see no way for him to be town)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1421 on: June 12, 2013, 10:54:45 pm »

EFHW,

Do you actually think that I'm scum, or are you just hammering to get the game moving?

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1422 on: June 12, 2013, 10:55:48 pm »

That's a believable claim, but I don't see any other possible scum team. I wish people would stop claiming and just lynch TA (raerae I'm like sure of, TA I want to believe but can't see no way for him to be town)

Case, case, case...case, case, case...we want a ca-ase, we need a ca-ase.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1423 on: June 12, 2013, 10:56:24 pm »

Mail-mi did not protect sudgy last night.
I did not protect sudgy last night.
From his flavor claim, Sudgy did not protect sudgy last night.

Raerae, EFHW, did either of you protect Sudgy last night? Simple yes / no will suffice!
People should NOT be answering this question.  It's like giving scum a map of who to target.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1424 on: June 12, 2013, 10:56:42 pm »

Raerae, I have a question for you. You must know that I am town, or strongly believe that am I town. You also know that if I get lynched, we lose.

That being said, if you have ANY information in your claim that would help convince Eevee...I strongly encourage you to do so. I know I'm rolefishing, blahblah, but it's preferable to losing the game for me.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1425 on: June 12, 2013, 10:57:31 pm »

if raerae is not scum here then I don't know who ever was scum anywhere!

look, anything that happened before tonight is not even relevant. We got scum to paint themselves in the corner with ta continuing to push for sudgy while accepting me as an ic.

If you won't produce a case will you at least explain why you won't?  How am I scum for demanded you actually have a reason for voting the way you are?
I have been explaining my reasons and asking damning questions from your side all night. You are ignoring my questions, like actually pretending I didn't ask them because you know what happens if you try answering, and continuing to insist on me building a case when I already did and it's strong enough for efhw to flip. Do you think she is scum or not?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1426 on: June 12, 2013, 10:57:47 pm »

Mail-mi did not protect sudgy last night.
I did not protect sudgy last night.
From his flavor claim, Sudgy did not protect sudgy last night.

Raerae, EFHW, did either of you protect Sudgy last night? Simple yes / no will suffice!
People should NOT be answering this question.  It's like giving scum a map of who to target.
So consider that part of the case, raerae.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1427 on: June 12, 2013, 10:58:39 pm »

Mail-mi did not protect sudgy last night.
I did not protect sudgy last night.
From his flavor claim, Sudgy did not protect sudgy last night.

Raerae, EFHW, did either of you protect Sudgy last night? Simple yes / no will suffice!
People should NOT be answering this question.  It's like giving scum a map of who to target.

Okay. But if NO ONE protected Sudgy last night, he should be dead, IF he's town. I guess WIFOM and town was afraid of a doctor though. Meh.

I am not getting through to Eevee this game, it's pointless. I give up, I literally don't think there's anything I can do.

Eevee, please, take awhile to think on this. Please believe me, if you don't change your mind, Sudgy and mail-mi win.

If he doesn't change his mind tomorrow, I guess go ahead and hammer, EFHW. No use trying to change something I can't change.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1428 on: June 12, 2013, 10:58:51 pm »

Raerae, I have a question for you. You must know that I am town, or strongly believe that am I town. You also know that if I get lynched, we lose.

That being said, if you have ANY information in your claim that would help convince Eevee...I strongly encourage you to do so. I know I'm rolefishing, blahblah, but it's preferable to losing the game for me.

I know I'm confident about sudgy but I'm not confident about anybody else.  You know I won't claim.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1429 on: June 12, 2013, 10:59:15 pm »

Mail-mi did not protect sudgy last night.
I did not protect sudgy last night.
From his flavor claim, Sudgy did not protect sudgy last night.

Raerae, EFHW, did either of you protect Sudgy last night? Simple yes / no will suffice!
People should NOT be answering this question.  It's like giving scum a map of who to target.
I agree. TA is putting up a good fight, but I'm fine with a hammer and if I'm wrong and you think I drew unreasonable conclusions from my information, I'll hang my head very low in shame.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1430 on: June 12, 2013, 10:59:44 pm »

Mail-mi did not protect sudgy last night.
I did not protect sudgy last night.
From his flavor claim, Sudgy did not protect sudgy last night.

Raerae, EFHW, did either of you protect Sudgy last night? Simple yes / no will suffice!
People should NOT be answering this question.  It's like giving scum a map of who to target.
So consider that part of the case, raerae.

If I'm town, how does it not make sense for me to go through this process? I don't want to lose the game, dammit!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1431 on: June 12, 2013, 11:00:32 pm »

Waiting until tomorrow just uses up another bankable day, which we are currently eating into. 
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1432 on: June 12, 2013, 11:00:43 pm »

Mail-mi did not protect sudgy last night.
I did not protect sudgy last night.
From his flavor claim, Sudgy did not protect sudgy last night.

Raerae, EFHW, did either of you protect Sudgy last night? Simple yes / no will suffice!
People should NOT be answering this question.  It's like giving scum a map of who to target.
I agree. TA is putting up a good fight, but I'm fine with a hammer and if I'm wrong and you think I drew unreasonable conclusions from my information, I'll hang my head very low in shame.

Don't. I may have done the same in your shoes. It's damn hard to lynch yourself. It's a weird setup, and I don't know if I could pull the trigger in your place.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1433 on: June 12, 2013, 11:00:57 pm »

Waiting until tomorrow just uses up another bankable day, which we are currently eating into.

Doesn't matterrrrrrr
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1434 on: June 12, 2013, 11:01:30 pm »

Sorry TA, my heart wants to believe you, wants to believe you so bad, but my brain is too certain I'm right. If I'm wrong about sudgy, I think I got trolled by the mod more than a little bit.

I'm sorry if you are town, I'm doing what I think is right.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1435 on: June 12, 2013, 11:01:42 pm »

if raerae is not scum here then I don't know who ever was scum anywhere!

look, anything that happened before tonight is not even relevant. We got scum to paint themselves in the corner with ta continuing to push for sudgy while accepting me as an ic.

If you won't produce a case will you at least explain why you won't?  How am I scum for demanded you actually have a reason for voting the way you are?
I have been explaining my reasons and asking damning questions from your side all night. You are ignoring my questions, like actually pretending I didn't ask them because you know what happens if you try answering, and continuing to insist on me building a case when I already did and it's strong enough for efhw to flip. Do you think she is scum or not?

WHAT QUESTIONS??  Honestly, if you asked them, I missed them.  So help me out. 

Your reasoning has been poor at best.  "I'm town so my partner must be too?"  Please, yuma was scum and my partner in M&M.  That's pathetically hopefully and painfully blind reasoning at best. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1436 on: June 12, 2013, 11:02:05 pm »

vote: TA
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1437 on: June 12, 2013, 11:02:25 pm »

Wait.

Mail-mi said he could explain why there was no NK. But not why Sudgy was protected.

I think Mail-mi is scum poisoner, btw.

POssibly with a lover, same set-up as Eevee-Sudgy. One of EFHW - Raerae.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1438 on: June 12, 2013, 11:02:30 pm »

Thread locked.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1439 on: June 12, 2013, 11:13:37 pm »

Act II Final Vote Count:

Twistedarcher (4): mail-mi, Eevee, sudgy, EFHW
sudgy (2): raerae,Twistedarcher

Not Voting (0):

With 6 alive, it took 4 to lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1440 on: June 12, 2013, 11:13:49 pm »

The actors in this play gathered round, choosing who would leave the stage forever.  In the end, it was Twistedarcher, who played Ophelia, the 2-Shot Commuting Bomb.  She wailed her last wail before fading away forever.

The group gathered round, shocked and depressed, then laid her body out next to nkirbit.  Was there a flutter of an eyelid there?

Night 2 has begun.

Night actions are due in 24 hours.  Day 3 begins in 48 hours.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1441 on: June 14, 2013, 11:08:44 pm »

To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause.



Act III has begun.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 11:10:32 pm by ashersky »
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1442 on: June 14, 2013, 11:10:19 pm »

Vote Count III.0:

Not Voting (0): Eevee, EFHW, sudgy, mail-mi, nkirbit, raerae

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1443 on: June 14, 2013, 11:28:01 pm »

Hey kermit!  Welcome back...maybe?  How dead you be?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1444 on: June 14, 2013, 11:54:34 pm »

Not dead at all.

No night kill.  No what happened to me.  Interesting.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1445 on: June 14, 2013, 11:55:21 pm »

Mail-Mi:  You seemed to know what happened to me.  Were you the one that caused it?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1446 on: June 14, 2013, 11:58:57 pm »

I have a few thoughts that I made during the night.  I was going to wait to see who turned up dead to make more conclusions, but no one turned up dead, so I guess we're in mostly the same spot as yesterday with myself alive instead of TA.

These are all things that I said during the night.

Quote
I think TA is eliminating too many possibilities by considering me dead. as are the others.

If the scum know I'm not dead (mail-mi seems to know this, for instance), they CANNOT quickhammer for the win.

Suppose Raerae/EFHW is the team. They have reason to believe I'm alive, as mail-mi insisted it's true, and why would he lie if he were town? If they quickhammer TA and he flips town, I come back, we lynch whoever quickhammers, and are in really really good shape.

Sudgy/Mail-Mi and TA/(one of raerae/efhw) are NOT the only possibilities.

Quote
"Okay. But if NO ONE protected Sudgy last night, he should be dead, IF he's town." [TA said this]

This is WRONG. maybe scum simply avoided targeted Sudgy because they were afraid of the doctor. And TA absorbed the kill, perhaps.

I'm not as convinced as all of you seemed to be that your argument was town vs scum.  It's certainly possible, but far from the only plausible outcome.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1447 on: June 15, 2013, 12:02:01 am »

I should note that we should all be reading the flavor more carefully.  At the start of day 2, ash put the words "seemingly dead" in italics while describing my death.  I don't see anything noteworthy about the flavor at the start of today, but we should keep an eye on it.. there may be hints there.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1448 on: June 15, 2013, 12:07:58 am »

So what do you think about sudgy being alive again today?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1449 on: June 15, 2013, 12:14:16 am »

I don't know.  It's fishy, but the one thing that I want to keep in mind is that we have yet to have a night kill.  Our only night action has been myself missing out on a die... we have not had an honest night kill yet.

Sudgy being scum is one possible answer, but if that's the answer, what's happening to the night kill?  That's an answer we need to work towards.

Sudgy being town is another.  What if Sudgy-Eevee and Lio-Xeiron were two all-town lover pairs, and mafia either don't have a night kill or have a weak night kill?  I don't know, and I'm very confused.

I want to hear what everyone thinks about what's going on.  The one piece of information we know for sure is that there have been two nights, and mafia have yet to kill a player.  That's where I think we should start.  Why do we think this is happening?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1450 on: June 15, 2013, 12:16:17 am »

What do you think about Sudgy being alive?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1451 on: June 15, 2013, 12:20:36 am »

I still think either he or Eevee are scum (assuming they are telling the truth about being lovers and Eevee is telling the truth about being sudgy's lover).  Really super interested to hear why EFHW was so hammer happy though.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1452 on: June 15, 2013, 12:24:23 am »

Yes, I would like to hear her say why she hammered at the point that she did.  She didn't at the time, and a recap would be helpful to make sure we all understand exactly why what happened yesterday happened.

Eevee:  You had said that had TA flipped town, you would take the blame.  I don't think this is your fault.  Lynching your lover, which you were being asked to do, would have been impossible.  It would be unreasonable for you to do so.

That being said, you said yesterday that your top scum-read was raerae, not TA.  Why weren't you making more of an effort to move the vote over there, then?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1453 on: June 15, 2013, 12:27:04 am »

Quote
That's a believable claim, but I don't see any other possible scum team. I wish people would stop claiming and just lynch TA (raerae I'm like sure of, TA I want to believe but can't see no way for him to be town)

This is what I'm talking about, specifically.  Why are you so eager to have someone who's not your top scumread lynching, and why weren't you fighting harder to move the vote to raerae?  Surely Sudgy would have followed, it's not out of the question that mail-mi would have followed, and from my point of view, EFHW's decision to hammer would have been very similar to the decision she had to make about hammering TA.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1454 on: June 15, 2013, 12:31:20 am »

I assume you're still against claiming, raerae?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1455 on: June 15, 2013, 01:05:43 am »

I assume you're still against claiming, raerae?

For now.  As you pointed out, we're almost in the same position we were yesterday.  What do you think?  When you say "claim" what exactly do you mean?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1456 on: June 15, 2013, 02:13:51 am »

Presuming that the mafia actually do have a nightkill, and they can get it to go through tonight, we're in MYLO.  So any information to help us direct a lynch is good.

We could claim something like "I could have prevented a night kill N1 and N2", "I didn't prevent it either night", etc.  See who was roleblocked, who was jailed, who was doctored, and hopefully come up with some information from it.  The two problems are:

1:  This information won't be reliable.  Even if we could be 100% certain claims are true, we can't be certain that it led us to a lynch, and we can't even be certain of the claims being true.
2:  This information can help direct mafia's kills at night.  This IS an issue, as mafia seem to be having issues properly directing kills (or have declined to attempt to, or have no nightkill.)  If we can guarantee that claiming would lead to a mafia lynch, it's worth it.. but is it worth it given that a claim doesn't guarantee that?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1457 on: June 15, 2013, 02:16:43 am »

Maybe the mafia has been declining night kills because we're simply way off base on who mafia are, believe they can get a mislynch today, and then kill tonight.  Assuming mafia can kill tonight, killing last night wouldn't have changed the fact that a mislynch today gets them a win, and provides us with less information.  So that's a strong possibility.

Perhaps they targeted TA night one, when he commuted, and declined to kill last night.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1458 on: June 15, 2013, 05:23:17 am »

nkirbit, were you offered to drink something and accepted? I'm asking because I were last night, and I denied.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1459 on: June 15, 2013, 05:29:18 am »

I thought scum would have quickhammered TA if he was town already, so that's why I kept pushing the TA lynch. Maybe I got impatient too.

I got a really interesting whisper from sudgy last night: "With the TA lynch, me and my partner have almost no hope. The only thing that can help us is if there is a survivor or something that we can bring to our side. You seemed the most like a survivor, so that's why I'm whispering you. If you don't help us, we WILL night kill you (he has a strongman)."

I guess he was lying though as no one died, but I don't know what to think here. How could the ta lynch have hurt sudgy? He was voting for him! Does this mean two scum teams, likely yes? Does this mean we can't trust flips? Is someone impersonating sudgy to throw me off?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1460 on: June 15, 2013, 09:49:36 am »

So what do you think about sudgy being alive again today?
Since no one died, it's hard to make anything concrete out of it.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1461 on: June 15, 2013, 09:57:48 am »

I still think either he or Eevee are scum (assuming they are telling the truth about being lovers and Eevee is telling the truth about being sudgy's lover).  Really super interested to hear why EFHW was so hammer happy though.
I wasn't hammer-happy.  I believed Eevee believed what he was saying, TA had been scummy re: case making, and then he did some scummy things right at the end - suggesting we wait and wanting everyone to claim protecting/not protecting sudgy.  There was no other viable lynch - my case on mail-mi went nowhere, and I didn't think you or Eevee were scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1462 on: June 15, 2013, 10:04:48 am »

Yes, I would like to hear her say why she hammered at the point that she did. 
I had stated intent, and then waited for TA to say what he wanted to.  When he said he was done, and there was no movement in sentiment, I hammered.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1463 on: June 15, 2013, 10:29:35 am »

I thought scum would have quickhammered TA if he was town already, so that's why I kept pushing the TA lynch. Maybe I got impatient too.

I got a really interesting whisper from sudgy last night: "With the TA lynch, me and my partner have almost no hope. The only thing that can help us is if there is a survivor or something that we can bring to our side. You seemed the most like a survivor, so that's why I'm whispering you. If you don't help us, we WILL night kill you (he has a strongman)."

I guess he was lying though as no one died, but I don't know what to think here. How could the ta lynch have hurt sudgy? He was voting for him! Does this mean two scum teams, likely yes? Does this mean we can't trust flips? Is someone impersonating sudgy to throw me off?
Maybe he thought because TA flipped town he would be under increased suspicion.  But you're right, why vote for someone if the result would be bad for your team.  If he was scum, he would have known TA would flip town. 

Two scum teams and no NK's at all seems unlikely. 

Can you say anything more about the drink you were offered? 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1464 on: June 15, 2013, 10:30:06 am »

Eevee, how do you explain TA flipping town?  Does this change your reasoning any?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1465 on: June 15, 2013, 10:42:58 am »

It was a brown, unlabeled bottle. I would have only learned what was in it had drank it.

Well, it was obvious eniough I was tanking town here after TA's flip, but sudgy's whisper just sealed it. I made a judgement call, TA had to suffer from me being horribly wrong and now town will lose.

Well, I hadn't realized nkirbit would come back, so scum had less of a reason to quickhammer.

Could it be that scum has no night kills (just the poison) to balance out all the lovers town has and the fact there are two scum teams? I don't know how else to interpret sudgy's whisper.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1466 on: June 15, 2013, 12:10:04 pm »

It was a brown, unlabeled bottle. I would have only learned what was in it had drank it.

Well, it was obvious enough I was tanking town here after TA's flip, but sudgy's whisper just sealed it.

So you believe sudgy is scum now?

Quote
Could it be that scum has no night kills (just the poison) to balance out all the lovers town has and the fact there are two scum teams? I don't know how else to interpret sudgy's whisper.
  Why do say it is a fact that there are 2 scum teams?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1467 on: June 15, 2013, 12:10:53 pm »

raerae did you get an offer of a drink when sudgy whispered to you?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1468 on: June 15, 2013, 12:20:25 pm »


I got a really interesting whisper from sudgy last night: "With the TA lynch, me and my partner have almost no hope. The only thing that can help us is if there is a survivor or something that we can bring to our side. You seemed the most like a survivor, so that's why I'm whispering you. If you don't help us, we WILL night kill you (he has a strongman)."


Don't know if this is WIFOM or not, but this is noteworthy as 2 out of the 4 other players are female.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1469 on: June 15, 2013, 12:22:04 pm »

Yes, Eevee, that is what happened to me, and I chose to drink.

EFHW, your reasons are fair enough, but it's always a good thing to ask someone about this.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1470 on: June 15, 2013, 12:26:56 pm »

I don't know what to make of Eevee's claim.  From my perspective, it's only true if the scum team is exactly Sudgy and Mail-mi.  Granted, that's the likeliest team I think, but I just find it extremely hard to believe that Sudgy would whisper that.

Did anyone else receive a message from Sudgy last night?  Sudgy, who did you send your message to?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1471 on: June 15, 2013, 12:28:54 pm »

It was a brown, unlabeled bottle. I would have only learned what was in it had drank it.

Well, it was obvious eniough I was tanking town here after TA's flip, but sudgy's whisper just sealed it. I made a judgement call, TA had to suffer from me being horribly wrong and now town will lose.

Well, I hadn't realized nkirbit would come back, so scum had less of a reason to quickhammer.

Could it be that scum has no night kills (just the poison) to balance out all the lovers town has and the fact there are two scum teams? I don't know how else to interpret sudgy's whisper.

What?  You interpret "my partner has strongman" as scum having no Night Kill?  That seems like an extremely odd interpretation to me.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1472 on: June 15, 2013, 12:30:25 pm »

Yes, Eevee, that is what happened to me, and I chose to drink.

EFHW, your reasons are fair enough, but it's always a good thing to ask someone about this.
Mad-Eye Moody would give you a thousand detentions for drinking that!

Of course, I expected questions.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1473 on: June 15, 2013, 12:32:45 pm »

Why I drank it:

Quote
Okay!

My first thought was whether it was from a scum or town. Thinking about it, it didn't make sense for it to be from a single scum team, as if I was targeted by them, I would just be dead, probably. So either:

1) There are multiple scum teams, and they both have weak kills. Possible, but not likely.
2) This potion was from a town member. Seems the likeliest possibility.

So, given that I'm thinking it's from a town member, I absolutely want to drink it. Maybe drinking the potion will give me some sort of information, maybe I'll die, but I went ahead and risked it. I felt fairly confident that I wouldn't die, though.  I was looking for some sort of information or role to help town out, and thought the potion might give me that.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1474 on: June 15, 2013, 12:33:48 pm »

Yes, Eevee, that is what happened to me, and I chose to drink.
So since you chose to drink, were you told anything about what it was, or was falling unconscious supposed to be your clue?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1475 on: June 15, 2013, 12:37:13 pm »

Yes, Eevee, that is what happened to me, and I chose to drink.
So since you chose to drink, were you told anything about what it was, or was falling unconscious supposed to be your clue?

All I was told was that after I drank the potion, I fell into a deep sleep that would appear to everyone else as if I had died.  I was given no more information about who had sent the drink, or if falling asleep was a guaranteed response, or what would have happened had I not drank it.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1476 on: June 15, 2013, 12:37:30 pm »

Soft deadline, anyone?  How about Tues night? 

How are we doing on time?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1477 on: June 15, 2013, 12:39:18 pm »

Currently using the 3 free days.  8 days and 20 hours in the bank.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1478 on: June 15, 2013, 12:40:14 pm »

I think Eevee has to be the prime lynch target here.  Keep in mind that Eevee has claimed to be lovers with Sudgy (I'm going to assume this true, but if he's lying, I don't think it actually matters anyway).

1) Eevee is town, and Sudgy DID send him that whisper.  We can believe Eevee's claim that he's lovers with Sudgy, and lynching Eevee is just as good as lynching Sudgy.

2) Eevee is scum, and lying about Sudgy's whisper, and may or may not be lying about being lovers with Sudgy.  We should lynch Eevee, since he's scum.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1479 on: June 15, 2013, 12:44:38 pm »

The only way lynching Eevee can go horribly, horribly wrong is if either:

Eevee is telling the truth, and lynching a town lover does not cause the scum lover to commit suicide.

or

Eevee is one of Julia/Sylvia, and there is another player who is Julia/Sylvia out there who is Sudgy's true lover.

I think it might be worth having the other Julia/Sylvia claim if they exist (it would have be either mail-mi, raerae, or EFHW, since I've already claimed non-lover).  What does everyone else think about having the other Julia/Sylvia claim if they exist, to stop us from making a mistake (assuming others agree with my idea of lynching Eevee).
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1480 on: June 15, 2013, 12:58:03 pm »

I think at this point, we pretty much have to wait for Sudgy to show up, to see what he has to say.  Questions for Sudgy:

1)  Did you send Eevee that message?  If not, who did you send a message to?  Was it Eevee, or someone else?

2)  (Assuming that you did not send that message) would you be willing to lynch Eevee for lying?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1481 on: June 15, 2013, 01:06:23 pm »

You know, I just don't believe Eevee's claim.  To do it, I have to believe that Sudgy-Mail-mi is the exact scum team, and Sudgy would actually send that message.  I can believe the first, but the second is just too much.  I simply don't think that he would send it.

Vote: Eevee
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1482 on: June 15, 2013, 01:28:26 pm »

raerae did you get an offer of a drink when sudgy whispered to you?

Nope.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1483 on: June 15, 2013, 01:31:53 pm »

You know, I just don't believe Eevee's claim.  To do it, I have to believe that Sudgy-Mail-mi is the exact scum team, and Sudgy would actually send that message.  I can believe the first, but the second is just too much.  I simply don't think that he would send it.

Vote: Eevee

Then why not vote for sudgy?  If you really do think it's the team.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1484 on: June 15, 2013, 01:33:06 pm »

The only way lynching Eevee can go horribly, horribly wrong is if either:

Eevee is telling the truth, and lynching a town lover does not cause the scum lover to commit suicide.

or

Eevee is one of Julia/Sylvia, and there is another player who is Julia/Sylvia out there who is Sudgy's true lover.

I think it might be worth having the other Julia/Sylvia claim if they exist (it would have be either mail-mi, raerae, or EFHW, since I've already claimed non-lover).  What does everyone else think about having the other Julia/Sylvia claim if they exist, to stop us from making a mistake (assuming others agree with my idea of lynching Eevee).

I can't and won't support an Eevee lynch.  We need to get sudgy.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1485 on: June 15, 2013, 01:34:55 pm »

You know, I just don't believe Eevee's claim.  To do it, I have to believe that Sudgy-Mail-mi is the exact scum team, and Sudgy would actually send that message.  I can believe the first, but the second is just too much.  I simply don't think that he would send it.

Vote: Eevee

Then why not vote for sudgy?  If you really do think it's the team.

I don't really think that's the team.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was, but it's not my #1 guess.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1486 on: June 15, 2013, 01:36:13 pm »

The only way lynching Eevee can go horribly, horribly wrong is if either:

Eevee is telling the truth, and lynching a town lover does not cause the scum lover to commit suicide.

or

Eevee is one of Julia/Sylvia, and there is another player who is Julia/Sylvia out there who is Sudgy's true lover.

I think it might be worth having the other Julia/Sylvia claim if they exist (it would have be either mail-mi, raerae, or EFHW, since I've already claimed non-lover).  What does everyone else think about having the other Julia/Sylvia claim if they exist, to stop us from making a mistake (assuming others agree with my idea of lynching Eevee).

I can't and won't support an Eevee lynch.  We need to get sudgy.

So you believe that Eevee's claimed message was true?  In that case, who do you think Sudgy's partner is?  Mail-mi?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1487 on: June 15, 2013, 01:39:43 pm »

If you believe that Eevee's claimed message is true, then you must believe that Eevee's claimed partnerhood with Sudgy is true.  If this is the case, then lynching Eevee is the same as lynching Sudgy!  But lynching Eevee is better, because there's a chance that Eevee is lying.
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1488 on: June 15, 2013, 01:40:18 pm »

The only way lynching Eevee can go horribly, horribly wrong is if either:

Eevee is telling the truth, and lynching a town lover does not cause the scum lover to commit suicide.

or

Eevee is one of Julia/Sylvia, and there is another player who is Julia/Sylvia out there who is Sudgy's true lover.

I think it might be worth having the other Julia/Sylvia claim if they exist (it would have be either mail-mi, raerae, or EFHW, since I've already claimed non-lover).  What does everyone else think about having the other Julia/Sylvia claim if they exist, to stop us from making a mistake (assuming others agree with my idea of lynching Eevee).

I can't and won't support an Eevee lynch.  We need to get sudgy.

So you believe that Eevee's claimed message was true?  In that case, who do you think Sudgy's partner is?  Mail-mi?

I don't want to call teams; I want to lynch mafia.  Sudgy is a claimed lover who has survived too damn long to be town.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1489 on: June 15, 2013, 01:43:10 pm »

That may be a good reason to vote Sudgy if other people were dying, but they're not.  We have yet to see a night-kill.

Sudgy not dying isn't out of the ordinary when no one else is dying.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1490 on: June 15, 2013, 01:48:02 pm »

That may be a good reason to vote Sudgy if other people were dying, but they're not.  We have yet to see a night-kill.

Sudgy not dying isn't out of the ordinary when no one else is dying.

Exactly.  We have yet to SEE a night kill.  Doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1491 on: June 15, 2013, 01:51:28 pm »

That may be a good reason to vote Sudgy if other people were dying, but they're not.  We have yet to see a night-kill.

Sudgy not dying isn't out of the ordinary when no one else is dying.

Exactly.  We have yet to SEE a night kill.  Doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

I agree.  But that's not a good reason to vote for Sudgy.  There could have been a night kill directed at Sudgy that was blocked just as easily as there could have been a nightkill directed elsewhere that was blocked, right?

You're arriving at the conclusion that because Sudgy isn't dead, he hasn't been targeted by NKs, and therefore it makes sense for him to be scum.  But we can't be sure that he hasn't been targeted by NKs.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1492 on: June 15, 2013, 02:00:48 pm »

That may be a good reason to vote Sudgy if other people were dying, but they're not.  We have yet to see a night-kill.

Sudgy not dying isn't out of the ordinary when no one else is dying.

Exactly.  We have yet to SEE a night kill.  Doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

I agree.  But that's not a good reason to vote for Sudgy.  There could have been a night kill directed at Sudgy that was blocked just as easily as there could have been a nightkill directed elsewhere that was blocked, right?

You're arriving at the conclusion that because Sudgy isn't dead, he hasn't been targeted by NKs, and therefore it makes sense for him to be scum.  But we can't be sure that he hasn't been targeted by NKs.

And you are trying to err on the side of caution when we are in no position to do so.  Explain why sudgy and Eevee are BOTH still alive.  Somehow scum targeted the same person who was protected?  That's a nice little dream but it isn't realistic.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1493 on: June 15, 2013, 02:04:08 pm »

I don't see why that little dream applies to my case, but not yours.  If Sudgy is scum, and he attempted to kill two other people, those kills we're blocked/doctored as well!  It's not a nice little dream.. it happened!
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1494 on: June 15, 2013, 02:04:39 pm »

Also, I'm not trying to err on the side of caution.  I think Eevee is scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1495 on: June 15, 2013, 02:05:40 pm »

I'm just going to go ahead and put this out there:

I think Eevee and Raerae are our scum team

I believe it was fishy yesterday when Eevee listed raerae as his top scumread yet made no attempt to move the lynch from TA to raerae.  If you are "certain about raerae, and want to believe about TA", why aren't you working harder to move the lynch over to raerae?  It's very, very poor town play if you're town, and believable play if you're scum and raerae is your partner.. I think it's the second.

It's very fishy how raerae keeps pushing a Sudgy lynch by claiming it's bizarre that he's still alive, despite there being many possible reasons why it would make sense for town!Sudgy to be alive.  I think it's weird how raerae won't lynch Eevee despite it being the same outcome as a Sudgy lynch if Eevee is telling the truth and a much, much better outcome if Eevee is lying.

I simply disbelieve Eevee's claim about Sudgy's message.  I don't think Sudgy would send such a message.  It implies that Sudgy's is on a team with Mail-Mi (as Sudgy used the term 'he' to describe his partner), which is the most convenient claim to make.  Furthermore, Eevee claimed that A MAFIA MEMBER TOLD A TOWNIE THAT THEY WERE MAFIA.  I don't think I can highlight enough how ridiculous of a move that would be from mafia... no matter how bad your position looks, surely you can do better than slim chance that you correctly picked a survivor.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1496 on: June 15, 2013, 02:09:37 pm »

I don't see why that little dream applies to my case, but not yours.  If Sudgy is scum, and he attempted to kill two other people, those kills we're blocked/doctored as well!  It's not a nice little dream.. it happened!

Why do you assume they were blocked or doctored?  There are other explanations.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1497 on: June 15, 2013, 02:12:47 pm »

I'm just going to go ahead and put this out there:

I think Eevee and Raerae are our scum team

I believe it was fishy yesterday when Eevee listed raerae as his top scumread yet made no attempt to move the lynch from TA to raerae.  If you are "certain about raerae, and want to believe about TA", why aren't you working harder to move the lynch over to raerae?  It's very, very poor town play if you're town, and believable play if you're scum and raerae is your partner.. I think it's the second.

It's very fishy how raerae keeps pushing a Sudgy lynch by claiming it's bizarre that he's still alive, despite there being many possible reasons why it would make sense for town!Sudgy to be alive.  I think it's weird how raerae won't lynch Eevee despite it being the same outcome as a Sudgy lynch if Eevee is telling the truth and a much, much better outcome if Eevee is lying.

I simply disbelieve Eevee's claim about Sudgy's message.  I don't think Sudgy would send such a message.  It implies that Sudgy's is on a team with Mail-Mi (as Sudgy used the term 'he' to describe his partner), which is the most convenient claim to make.  Furthermore, Eevee claimed that A MAFIA MEMBER TOLD A TOWNIE THAT THEY WERE MAFIA.  I don't think I can highlight enough how ridiculous of a move that would be from mafia... no matter how bad your position looks, surely you can do better than slim chance that you correctly picked a survivor.

Seriously?  Seriously?  It's fishy how I'm repeatedly pointing out the most suspicious thing that's happened in this game???  So, let's just expand this, please explain my scumminess for defending TA yesterday.  I'm really excited to hear that. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1498 on: June 15, 2013, 02:15:24 pm »

And, since apparently we can do this, this is the message sudgy sent me.  If you're town, is this what you waste your PM on?

"I'm whispering to you, as you're my top townread. I'll say I whispered to you, then you say so. Also, if you are Julia or Silvia, please start you're first post with a letter in the first half of the alphabet."
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1499 on: June 15, 2013, 02:16:04 pm »

I don't see why that little dream applies to my case, but not yours.  If Sudgy is scum, and he attempted to kill two other people, those kills we're blocked/doctored as well!  It's not a nice little dream.. it happened!

Why do you assume they were blocked or doctored?  There are other explanations.

I meant that as a general class of options.  Either the killer was prevented from performing the kill, or the recipient was saved somehow.  So jailer, commuter would apply as well, as I'm sure others would.  Hider, there are probably more.

Basically, your views on the matter to me seem to be:

If sudgy is town, two kills disappeared!  That seems extremely unlikely, and I'm not going to believe such an unlikely story!

If sudgy is scum, two kills disappeared!  That seems believable.

I don't think two kills disappearing is a good reason for Sudgy being scum or not.  It happened regardless or whether or not Sudgy is scum.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1500 on: June 15, 2013, 02:17:24 pm »

Why does two kills disappearing point towards Sudgy being scum?  I understand why two kills elsewhere would point to it, but two kills disappearing and two kills elsewhere are not the same.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1501 on: June 15, 2013, 02:19:52 pm »

Do you find it odd that Sudgy left you with a way to communicate back to him, but left Eevee no such method?  What he's asking Eevee, by far, needs a reply more than yours does.  But he didn't give Eevee any such method.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1502 on: June 15, 2013, 02:21:13 pm »

I must admit, I'm less sure about yourself than I am about Eevee.  I don't think I can possibly be driven off of an Eevee lynch though.. I think it's much, much better than a Sudgy lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1503 on: June 15, 2013, 02:21:24 pm »

Why does two kills disappearing point towards Sudgy being scum?  I understand why two kills elsewhere would point to it, but two kills disappearing and two kills elsewhere are not the same.

I'm really confused here.  Help me out, please.

You think it's perfectly reasonable for sudgy to have survived the first night after his claim because he was protected somehow.

You also think it's perfectly reasonable for both Eevee and Sudgy to have survived the night after Eevee claimed because doctors or some other life saver are involved. 

You think Eevee is scum.

So you think Sudgy is town and was targeted by his lover who happens to be scum.

Am I totally misunderstanding you or are these your positions?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1504 on: June 15, 2013, 02:22:02 pm »

I must admit, I'm less sure about yourself than I am about Eevee.  I don't think I can possibly be driven off of an Eevee lynch though.. I think it's much, much better than a Sudgy lynch.

But they should both die so why is one better than the other?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1505 on: June 15, 2013, 02:22:50 pm »

I must admit, I'm less sure about yourself than I am about Eevee.  I don't think I can possibly be driven off of an Eevee lynch though.. I think it's much, much better than a Sudgy lynch.

But they should both die so why is one better than the other?

Because there's a chance that Eevee is lying!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1506 on: June 15, 2013, 02:23:16 pm »

Do you find it odd that Sudgy left you with a way to communicate back to him, but left Eevee no such method?  What he's asking Eevee, by far, needs a reply more than yours does.  But he didn't give Eevee any such method.

Not at all.  Why would he need a response from Eevee?  He was demanding, not asking.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1507 on: June 15, 2013, 02:23:45 pm »

I must admit, I'm less sure about yourself than I am about Eevee.  I don't think I can possibly be driven off of an Eevee lynch though.. I think it's much, much better than a Sudgy lynch.

But they should both die so why is one better than the other?

So, tell me why Sudgy is town.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1508 on: June 15, 2013, 02:30:43 pm »

I must admit, I'm less sure about yourself than I am about Eevee.  I don't think I can possibly be driven off of an Eevee lynch though.. I think it's much, much better than a Sudgy lynch.

But they should both die so why is one better than the other?

So, tell me why Sudgy is town.

Because I don't believe Eevee's claim.  I can't imagine a situation where a mafia would think for a while and conclude that the best direction to go in was telling another non-mafia player that he's mafia.  Especially when roles presuppose alignment!  If Sudgy is scum, than Eevee is either Julia/Sylvia... Julia and Sylvia don't sound like survivors to me.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1509 on: June 15, 2013, 02:35:51 pm »

Why does two kills disappearing point towards Sudgy being scum?  I understand why two kills elsewhere would point to it, but two kills disappearing and two kills elsewhere are not the same.

I'm really confused here.  Help me out, please.

You think it's perfectly reasonable for sudgy to have survived the first night after his claim because he was protected somehow.

You also think it's perfectly reasonable for both Eevee and Sudgy to have survived the night after Eevee claimed because doctors or some other life saver are involved. 

You think Eevee is scum.

So you think Sudgy is town and was targeted by his lover who happens to be scum.

Am I totally misunderstanding you or are these your positions?

What I think happened N1 was TA was the nightkill and commuted through it.  We know TA commuted, so this seems reasonable regardless of whether or not Sudgy is scum or not.  If Sudgy were town, I think scum would avoid him N1 because of the high likelihood there's a doctor protecting him.

N2, I don't know what happened.  It's possible that scum!eevee declined to NK, because he thought in the current climate he could make his claim, get sudgy lynched, then nightkill for the likely win.  It's possible that he tried to kill someone like mail-mi or efhw and the kill got stopped somehow.

I know it's unlikely, but it's just as unlikely had Sudgy been scum.  Even more unlikely, perhaps, because Sudgy doesn't have to avoid targeting an obvious doctor target.  If Sudgy is scum, his partner and him had to miss twice.  That's just as unlikely.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1510 on: June 15, 2013, 02:37:18 pm »

I really wish that Sudgy and Mail-Mi would show up so we could get more voices in here.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1511 on: June 15, 2013, 02:42:19 pm »

But, regardless of whether I'm correct, I think Eevee is a strictly better lynch than Sudgy.  Either

  • Eevee is lying, and we catch scum, or
  • Eevee is telling the truth that he's lovers with Sudgy, we mislynch Eevee but get Sudgy anyway, and are in the same exact spot as a Sudgy lynch.

Lynching Eevee is better than lynching Sudgy if Eevee is lying, and the same as lynching Sudgy if Eevee is telling us the truth.  Even if you think Eevee is telling the truth, you should be okay with lynching Eevee, because it's strictly better than lynching Sudgy!
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1512 on: June 15, 2013, 02:45:06 pm »

The only person who should support a Sudgy lynch over an Eevee lynch at this point is Eevee's partner should he turn out to be scum.  The fact that raerae opposes this lynch, coupled together with Eevee not switching to Raerae yesterday despite claiming that he was sure she was scum, is why I think we have a raerae-eevee team.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1513 on: June 15, 2013, 02:46:39 pm »

I'm wondering what the wincon of our poisoner would be, if the poisoner is separate from the scum team.  If the poisoned players don't stay dead, then serial killer doesn't work. 

If the scum send out a short-acting poison, which may or may not be drunk, then they have a very weak weapon.  So that points to another bad guy.  I don't think another team, given the size of the game, but some independent operator.  What I can't figure out is what they would be trying to accomplish.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1514 on: June 15, 2013, 02:47:41 pm »

EFHW:  My guess is that poison is just the flavor of the mafia team's NK.  I may be wrong, but that's my guess.
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1515 on: June 15, 2013, 02:49:29 pm »

Also:  the flavor of my potion was not that of a poison, rather that of a sleeping potion.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1516 on: June 15, 2013, 02:56:08 pm »

Also:  the flavor of my potion was not that of a poison, rather that of a sleeping potion.
You didn't mention that before.  There is a poisoner/poison doctor combo that is used, but then typically the poisoned player lives for awhile into the next day and then dies.  This could be a sleeping variant.  The poison doctor suggests that we have an actual poisoner role, in addition to scum and whatever night power they have. 

This is too, too weak to be the scum team's method of NK.  It only lasts one day! 

When did you get word that you were alive again?

You know, it's very possible that Eevee is the one handing out the potions and says he got one as a cover.  But WHY give out the potions in the first place?

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1517 on: June 15, 2013, 03:02:17 pm »

EFHW, what do you think about kermit's idea that Eevee and I are partners?
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nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1518 on: June 15, 2013, 03:07:02 pm »

EFHW:  As soon as I drank the potion, Ash replied with a message saying 'you're going to be asleep for one day, then wake up'.  I always knew I was going to be alive D3.  This is probably the only way to handle it, honestly, as you don't want a player to think they're dead, stop checking in on the game, then not be around when they wake up.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1519 on: June 15, 2013, 03:07:18 pm »

EFHW, what do you think about kermit's idea that Eevee and I are partners?

I think it is based on a number of assumptions, any one of which could be mistaken.  Also, one of you is dogged about lynching sudgy, the other fought hard to save him.

I'm surprised at how little heat Eevee is getting for leading the TA lynch, though.  nkirbit was the first to say the equivalent of "don't worry about it."  Eevee hasn't answered my question about how TA's flip changes his logic.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1520 on: June 15, 2013, 03:07:46 pm »

EFHW, what do you think about kermit's idea that Eevee and I are partners?

Yes, I think this is what we should be discussing.  If there's a poisoner out there, we'll worry about it later, but I think this is an extremely important discussion that everyone should weigh in on.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1521 on: June 15, 2013, 03:08:29 pm »

I thought scum would have quickhammered TA if he was town already, so that's why I kept pushing the TA lynch. Maybe I got impatient too.

I got a really interesting whisper from sudgy last night: "With the TA lynch, me and my partner have almost no hope. The only thing that can help us is if there is a survivor or something that we can bring to our side. You seemed the most like a survivor, so that's why I'm whispering you. If you don't help us, we WILL night kill you (he has a strongman)."

I guess he was lying though as no one died, but I don't know what to think here. How could the ta lynch have hurt sudgy? He was voting for him! Does this mean two scum teams, likely yes? Does this mean we can't trust flips? Is someone impersonating sudgy to throw me off?

What do you mean?  Maybe I'm reading that wrong but I don't see anything about a kill threat.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1522 on: June 15, 2013, 03:09:13 pm »

EFHW, what do you think about kermit's idea that Eevee and I are partners?

Yes, I think this is what we should be discussing.  If there's a poisoner out there, we'll worry about it later, but I think this is an extremely important discussion that everyone should weigh in on.

When I ask a question to somebody, I expect them to answer.  You're opinion has been clearly stated.  Please let EFHW answer for herself.  Thank you.
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1523 on: June 15, 2013, 03:10:53 pm »

EFHW, what do you think about kermit's idea that Eevee and I are partners?

I think it is based on a number of assumptions, any one of which could be mistaken.  Also, one of you is dogged about lynching sudgy, the other fought hard to save him.

I'm surprised at how little heat Eevee is getting for leading the TA lynch, though.  nkirbit was the first to say the equivalent of "don't worry about it."  Eevee hasn't answered my question about how TA's flip changes his logic.

Does it strike you odd that nkirbit first say, "yeah, dude, no big deal," and is now trying to lynch him? 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1524 on: June 15, 2013, 03:12:20 pm »

Eevee:  You had said that had TA flipped town, you would take the blame.  I don't think this is your fault.  Lynching your lover, which you were being asked to do, would have been impossible.  It would be unreasonable for you to do so.

That being said, you said yesterday that your top scum-read was raerae, not TA.  Why weren't you making more of an effort to move the vote over there, then?

This is what he said.  So there was suspicion in his mind at that time, too.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1525 on: June 15, 2013, 03:12:49 pm »

EFHW, what do you think about kermit's idea that Eevee and I are partners?

I think it is based on a number of assumptions, any one of which could be mistaken.  Also, one of you is dogged about lynching sudgy, the other fought hard to save him.

I'm surprised at how little heat Eevee is getting for leading the TA lynch, though.  nkirbit was the first to say the equivalent of "don't worry about it."  Eevee hasn't answered my question about how TA's flip changes his logic.

Of course my case is based on assumptions.  If cases weren't based on assumption, then they wouldn't be cases!  We're working with incomplete knowledge, so we have to assume stuff.

Do you think my assumptions are good?  To make this more clear, I'm going to put out the assumptions that I believe I'm making.

  • Eevee is lying about receiving that message from Sudgy.  This is based on the fact that I simply refuse to believe a mafia member would ever risk telling a non-mafia member that they are mafia
  • Raerae is the most logical partner for Eevee.  This is based on Eevee not changing his vote from TA to raerae despite having a stronger scumread on raerae, and raerae refusing to vote for Eevee over Sudgy.

Keep in mind, just because raerae didn't support a TA lynch doesn't make her auto-town.  She had been hammering on the Sudgy lynch all day.  She couldn't move onto TA without raising major suspicion.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1526 on: June 15, 2013, 03:13:18 pm »

EFHW:  As soon as I drank the potion, Ash replied with a message saying 'you're going to be asleep for one day, then wake up'.  I always knew I was going to be alive D3.  This is probably the only way to handle it, honestly, as you don't want a player to think they're dead, stop checking in on the game, then not be around when they wake up.

Were you awake N2?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1527 on: June 15, 2013, 03:14:05 pm »

EFHW:  As soon as I drank the potion, Ash replied with a message saying 'you're going to be asleep for one day, then wake up'.  I always knew I was going to be alive D3.  This is probably the only way to handle it, honestly, as you don't want a player to think they're dead, stop checking in on the game, then not be around when they wake up.

Were you awake N2?

Yes, I was.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1528 on: June 15, 2013, 03:19:55 pm »

Do you think my assumptions are good?  To make this more clear, I'm going to put out the assumptions that I believe I'm making.

  • Eevee is lying about receiving that message from Sudgy.  This is based on the fact that I simply refuse to believe a mafia member would ever risk telling a non-mafia member that they are mafia
  • Raerae is the most logical partner for Eevee.  This is based on Eevee not changing his vote from TA to raerae despite having a stronger scumread on raerae, and raerae refusing to vote for Eevee over Sudgy.

Keep in mind, just because raerae didn't support a TA lynch doesn't make her auto-town.  She had been hammering on the Sudgy lynch all day.  She couldn't move onto TA without raising major suspicion.

Your assumptions about raerae are more questionable.  If she is sure about sudgy and unsure about Eevee, and has doubt about his lover claim, then the best way to kill sudgy is to kill sudgy, not try to kill him through killing someone else.  This is especially true because Eevee could be telling the truth about being Julia or Silvia, but be unwittingly wrong about being the real lover. 

I don't think raerae is auto-town for not voting TA. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1529 on: June 15, 2013, 03:22:22 pm »

I need to look again at what Eevee said about TA vs raerae.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1530 on: June 15, 2013, 03:23:51 pm »

So, raerae, I checked and your first post D2 started with a "C".  Was this intended as a communication?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1531 on: June 15, 2013, 03:25:02 pm »

I thought scum would have quickhammered TA if he was town already, so that's why I kept pushing the TA lynch. Maybe I got impatient too.

After TA had already claimed, you posted this:
Quote
That's a believable claim, but I don't see any other possible scum team. I wish people would stop claiming and just lynch TA (raerae I'm like sure of, TA I want to believe but can't see no way for him to be town)

So at that point, you still "sure of" raerae and merely "wanted to believe" TA.  It was clear there were no quickhammers coming to either yourself or TA at that point.  Sudgy was never going to quickhammer his lover, raerae was around as resistance to change, EFHW was around and considering hammering TA, but not without talking it through first, and mail-mi was around and not hammering yourself.  There was plenty of time to move to raerae if that's what you wanted.. I'm questioning if you really did want that.
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1532 on: June 15, 2013, 03:31:57 pm »

Nkirbit, your forcing me to fit as Eevee's partner without making a case on me. 

EFHW, it was a mistake as I just wasn't reading closely enough and thought I wasn't supposed to start with the first half of the alphabet if I was his partner. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1533 on: June 15, 2013, 03:32:16 pm »

I hand out the drinks. It's a town role, don't worry.

And after yesterday (argh I was so so wrong!) and nkirbit's case, one of sudgy or Eevee is scum. I don't see any other way.

vote: Eevee.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1534 on: June 15, 2013, 03:34:01 pm »

I hand out the drinks. It's a town role, don't worry.

And after yesterday (argh I was so so wrong!) and nkirbit's case, one of sudgy or Eevee is scum. I don't see any other way.

vote: Eevee.
So we have town-aligned drinks AND a poison doctor?
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1535 on: June 15, 2013, 03:34:53 pm »

I hand out the drinks. It's a town role, don't worry.

And after yesterday (argh I was so so wrong!) and nkirbit's case, one of sudgy or Eevee is scum. I don't see any other way.

vote: Eevee.

ARE YOU F-ING KIDDING ME???  Why should we trust you?  Why?  Why?  You can't just say "trust me" and have it be so!  Explain why you picked the people you wanted to be poisoned/potioned/drugged.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1536 on: June 15, 2013, 03:36:42 pm »

And what is the benefit to town of having one less player for a day?  They could have daytime roles.  Their being asleep makes parity harder.  We don't get their input.  Is this a kind of sleeping-vigilante thing, where you target people you think are scum?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1537 on: June 15, 2013, 03:43:02 pm »

I hand out the drinks. It's a town role, don't worry.

And after yesterday (argh I was so so wrong!) and nkirbit's case, one of sudgy or Eevee is scum. I don't see any other way.

vote: Eevee.
So we have town-aligned drinks AND a poison doctor?
I hand out the drinks. It's a town role, don't worry.

And after yesterday (argh I was so so wrong!) and nkirbit's case, one of sudgy or Eevee is scum. I don't see any other way.

vote: Eevee.

ARE YOU F-ING KIDDING ME???  Why should we trust you?  Why?  Why?  You can't just say "trust me" and have it be so!  Explain why you picked the people you wanted to be poisoned/potioned/drugged.

I am going to claim to stop the confusion.

I am Laurence, town Friar.

I got my remedies all mixed up with the Apothecary and I don't know what my potions will do. I choose someone to give it to, they can choose to drink it or not. It will either kill them, seem to kill them (as it did to nkirbit), or give them "a great benefit" (i don't know what it is).

N1 was nkirbit because he was a middling read that could have been town or scum. N2 Eevee because I hoped it would kill him and sudgy and if it made him seem to die it would just kill sudgy.
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1538 on: June 15, 2013, 03:46:40 pm »

Why would sudgy be affected by a fake death?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1539 on: June 15, 2013, 03:48:49 pm »

Why would sudgy be affected by a fake death?
I assumed because it would look like his lover died, so he'd suicide.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

nkirbit

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1540 on: June 15, 2013, 04:08:26 pm »

You're right, raerae.  I have two cases:  eevee being scum, and you being his partner. The second obviously depends on the first, but I can be correct I. The first without being wrong in the second.

I believe mail mi's claim. Which makes me even more sure of eevee, as mail-mi wa his only viable partner from my point of view
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1541 on: June 15, 2013, 04:24:05 pm »

I mean that mail-mi was sudgys only viable partner
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1542 on: June 15, 2013, 08:24:30 pm »

Um, Eevee, could you explain that reply to my PM?  I'll say a bit more once I've heard Eevee say what he will.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1543 on: June 15, 2013, 08:38:20 pm »

Um, Eevee, could you explain that reply to my PM?  I'll say a bit more once I've heard Eevee say what he will.

What do you want him to explain?  He claimed he got that PM... what more is there to say about it?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1544 on: June 15, 2013, 08:38:56 pm »

That just seems like a very odd question, Sudgy.. I'm not sure what you're asking of him.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1545 on: June 15, 2013, 08:44:33 pm »

Ok, so if mail-mi is telling the truth, the poison doctor would have been intended to counteract the two negative effects of mail-mi's potions and it is also possible that scum kill with poison.  Those potions seem more anti-town than pro-town to me, with two negative effects and an unknown positive effect.  It's like a vig with 2/3 chance of success.

Laurence being a friar would suggest to me that mail-mi does not have a lover.  He is the friar in Romeo and Juliet.  He marries them and gives them the sleeping medicine that makes Juliet seem dead.  It's his letter that never makes it to Romeo telling him she is actually still alive.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1546 on: June 15, 2013, 08:45:13 pm »

So you are admitting to sending the pm, sudgy?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1547 on: June 15, 2013, 08:46:38 pm »

Eevee has come under a great deal of suspicion because of the PM, so hopefully you can lend some clarity to the situation.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1548 on: June 15, 2013, 08:51:48 pm »

I thought scum would have quickhammered TA if he was town already, so that's why I kept pushing the TA lynch. Maybe I got impatient too.

Eevee decided TA was scum because no one was quickhammering.  But there is another explanation for that, which is that both scum were already on the wagon.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1549 on: June 15, 2013, 09:07:07 pm »

I thought scum would have quickhammered TA if he was town already, so that's why I kept pushing the TA lynch. Maybe I got impatient too.

Eevee decided TA was scum because no one was quickhammering.  But there is another explanation for that, which is that both scum were already on the wagon.

Yeah.  Or scum were off, and couldn't quickhammer because they knew we weren't in MYLO.  There's any number of possibilities, really.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1550 on: June 15, 2013, 09:07:31 pm »

I wanted to remind myself of the reasons Eevee suspected TA and raerae.  I see several re: TA, but his scumread on raerae eludes me.

if raerae is not scum here then I don't know who ever was scum anywhere!

look, anything that happened before tonight is not even relevant. We got scum to paint themselves in the corner with ta continuing to push for sudgy while accepting me as an ic.
Here he says TA is scummy because of the contradiction of believing Eevee was town and continuing to believe sudgy was scum.

I accept you for a misguided IC!

Sorry, why would Sudgy be alive?

I hate to ask you to claim more, but did you prevent Sudgy from being killed last night?

If no one can claim any reason why Sudgy would be alive, then that means it's more likely he's scum.
You have been fishing for me to claim more and more about my role all day, way more than I was comfortable claiming. Now that I strongly suspect, dare I say know, that you are scum, I refuse to answer such inquiries and advice all other townies to do the same.

It's pretty obvious there is a plethora of roles that could cause the target of a night kill to live though.
Here he accuses TA of rolefishing.

Eevee and mail-mi voted TA in quick succession:
Vote: TA Scum is really trying to push this lover lunch.
Vote: TA
Have we considered an Eevee/mail-mi team?  I'll look into that next.

Eevee - please say more about why you suspected raerae.  Sorry if I missed it.  Reading through the last part of Day 2, I couldn't find anything.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1551 on: June 15, 2013, 09:11:05 pm »

"What do you need me to do? Why would you trust me? It does feel like our paths are shared no matter what.."

was my reply to sudgy. Seems pretty self-explanatory, I wanted more information after your very surprising whisper.

Why I think sudgy's whisper implies two scum teams? We lynched town and sudgy said it hurt his team.

Why I think he must have been lying? He threatened me with a strongman kill and no one died.

Nkirbit why are you leaving out the "I just can't see any way for you to be town despite wanting it to be so" part of the quite about ta? Trying to paint me in a scummy light much?

I don't know what think about TA's flip (except to be sorry to ta). It's especially confusing after sudgy's whisper, I don't even know if I can trust TA's flip anymore.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1552 on: June 15, 2013, 09:13:24 pm »

the positions raerae took (what she chose to believe) seemed unrealistic for her. I thought she opposed the scum lynch and called for a townies head, but obviously was wrong about that. She WAS dodging like all my questions though, which I found incredibly scummy.

but ta being town obviously makes me the clown. mvp for scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1553 on: June 15, 2013, 09:14:14 pm »

Okay, I was misreading that sentence.  I was thinking you were saying you wanted to believe you were right about TA being scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1554 on: June 15, 2013, 09:14:40 pm »

Eevee where do you stand now on raerae?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1555 on: June 15, 2013, 09:15:08 pm »

I also hadn't realized Eevee got a reply to Sudgy.  That makes his question make a lot more sense.

Did raerae reply to you N1, Sudgy?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1556 on: June 15, 2013, 09:16:16 pm »

I also hadn't realized Eevee got a reply to Sudgy.  That makes his question make a lot more sense.

Did raerae reply to you N1, Sudgy?

Or maybe Eevee messaging Sudgy was a lover thing.  Don't know.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1557 on: June 15, 2013, 09:18:41 pm »

Eevee:  I don't think Sudgy could have killed you that night.  From the way the night actions seemed structured, all actions are submitted in the first 24 hours, then things like messages, potions, etc. are sent at that point.  So by the time you got your message, the scum kill or lackthereof was locked in, would be my guess.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1558 on: June 15, 2013, 09:23:25 pm »

"What do you need me to do? Why would you trust me? It does feel like our paths are shared no matter what.."

was my reply to sudgy. Seems pretty self-explanatory, I wanted more information after your very surprising whisper.

What does the paths being shared have to do with anything?  (This was the main question I had)

Quote
Why I think he must have been lying? He threatened me with a strongman kill and no one died.

From the PM you mentioned, it seemed like he was threatening to kill you if you didn't help "me".
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1559 on: June 15, 2013, 09:26:33 pm »

"What do you need me to do? Why would you trust me? It does feel like our paths are shared no matter what.."

was my reply to sudgy. Seems pretty self-explanatory, I wanted more information after your very surprising whisper.

What does the paths being shared have to do with anything?  (This was the main question I had)

Quote
Why I think he must have been lying? He threatened me with a strongman kill and no one died.

From the PM you mentioned, it seemed like he was threatening to kill you if you didn't help "me".

Who is he and who is "me"?  Are you saying that someone else sent that message?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1560 on: June 15, 2013, 09:33:54 pm »

Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.

mail-mi - This doesn't make sense with the role you claimed.  How would you know which of the 3 things took effect and why do you attribute it to a scum kill gone awry?  This is really misleading if you knew all along that your power had done it.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1561 on: June 15, 2013, 09:35:48 pm »

And here, why would you risk killing/incapacitating nkirbit if you thought he was so super towny?

I have... no idea who to lynch. I have a few ideas of who not to lynch, tho. First, me. Second, nkirbit. I think he's acting very townie and we would be stupid to lynch him.

Lio, maybe a lynch. I just don't know.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1562 on: June 15, 2013, 09:36:31 pm »

Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.

mail-mi - This doesn't make sense with the role you claimed.  How would you know which of the 3 things took effect and why do you attribute it to a scum kill gone awry?  This is really misleading if you knew all along that your power had done it.

I interpreted this as I wasn't the scum kill - whatever happened to me was due to his actions - and a scum kill elsewhere didn't happen.  It is a good point though... how did you know that I was killed only temporarily and not permanently?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1563 on: June 15, 2013, 09:41:42 pm »

unvote

I'm still not sure entirely what happened between Sudgy and Eevee last night.  Sudgy, do you not deny sending Eevee the original message?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1564 on: June 15, 2013, 09:42:55 pm »

Eevee where do you stand now on raerae?
I honestly don't know. The message from sudgy really threw me off (my initial reaction to TA's flip was that EHFW and raerae were the scum team). I sort of suspect anyone, think most of you are nightkilless scum or something. :( Definitely think town is just toast here no matter what because of sudgy's pm.

Eevee:  I don't think Sudgy could have killed you that night.  From the way the night actions seemed structured, all actions are submitted in the first 24 hours, then things like messages, potions, etc. are sent at that point.  So by the time you got your message, the scum kill or lackthereof was locked in, would be my guess.
Even if that's true, if they have a strongman kill, someone should have died.

"What do you need me to do? Why would you trust me? It does feel like our paths are shared no matter what.."

was my reply to sudgy. Seems pretty self-explanatory, I wanted more information after your very surprising whisper.

What does the paths being shared have to do with anything?  (This was the main question I had)

Quote
Why I think he must have been lying? He threatened me with a strongman kill and no one died.

From the PM you mentioned, it seemed like he was threatening to kill you if you didn't help "me".
So you deny sending the message to me? Paths being shared was meant to make you trust me more, obviously I'm not really going to help you if you are scum, but you well-being is obviously in my interests as we are lovers.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1565 on: June 15, 2013, 09:46:12 pm »

It could be a 1-shot strongman that they're saving for you next night, Eevee.  It's a possibility.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1566 on: June 15, 2013, 09:47:01 pm »

Why the hell is Sudgy being so cryptic?  What happened last night?  Who did you message?  Was it Eevee?  Was that the message you sent?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1567 on: June 15, 2013, 09:47:47 pm »

It could be a 1-shot strongman that they're saving for you next night, Eevee.  It's a possibility.
Well, if sudgy was 100% honest, town seems to be clearly lost here anyways. He thinks his team is drawing slim after a town lynch -> the faction flourishing must be a third team. If scum is willing to pm me like that, town pretty much must be in a no win situation..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1568 on: June 15, 2013, 10:05:56 pm »

Guys. Nkirbit is not dead, scum kill got doctored/blocked. Don't ask me how I know.

mail-mi - This doesn't make sense with the role you claimed.  How would you know which of the 3 things took effect and why do you attribute it to a scum kill gone awry?  This is really misleading if you knew all along that your power had done it.

I interpreted this as I wasn't the scum kill - whatever happened to me was due to his actions - and a scum kill elsewhere didn't happen.  It is a good point though... how did you know that I was killed only temporarily and not permanently?
The fact that there wasnt a flip, and that ash italicized "seemingly dead" lead me to believe that you had only seemed to die.

EFHW: because he was very towny and it would be stupid to lynch him. However, because of the 1/3 chance he got a benefit and a chance he was scum lead me to target him.

Also, my power is compulsive so if you get a potion, you can risk it or not, your choice.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1569 on: June 15, 2013, 10:28:18 pm »

Also, my power is compulsive so if you get a potion, you can risk it or not, your choice.

I see, well that makes more sense.  But why did you attribute nkirbit's difficulties to a scum-kill gone wrong when you should have known it was you?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1570 on: June 15, 2013, 10:29:30 pm »

Eevee - So you were allowed to send a reply PM to sudgy?

raerae - were you?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1571 on: June 15, 2013, 10:33:35 pm »

Looking for a partnership between mail-mi and Eevee, there isn't a lot to see.  He is pretty consistently negative.  The only way they could be partners is if mail-mi is bussing.  The only support for that possibility I see is that Eevee has never been in danger of being lynched, so all this bussing was pretty safe.  There is nothing here that categorically excludes him from being Eevee's partner, either though. 

I assembled a bunch of quotes if people are interested.  I didn't want to take up room in the thread since I don't have much of a conclusion to draw.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1572 on: June 15, 2013, 10:34:32 pm »

Also, my power is compulsive so if you get a potion, you can risk it or not, your choice.

I see, well that makes more sense.  But why did you attribute nkirbit's difficulties to a scum-kill gone wrong when you should have known it was you?

I don't think that's what he did.  He knew there was a scum-kill gone wrong because my "death" was due to his actions, so we were missing a scum kill.. but he didn't mean that *I* was the target of that scum kill.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1573 on: June 15, 2013, 10:35:16 pm »

ok, I can see that now.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1574 on: June 15, 2013, 10:37:58 pm »

Eevee - So you were allowed to send a reply PM to sudgy?

raerae - were you?
Yes, and I quoted it word for word.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1575 on: June 15, 2013, 10:41:52 pm »

And, since apparently we can do this, this is the message sudgy sent me.  If you're town, is this what you waste your PM on?

"I'm whispering to you, as you're my top townread. I'll say I whispered to you, then you say so. Also, if you are Julia or Silvia, please start you're first post with a letter in the first half of the alphabet."

Eevee - So you were allowed to send a reply PM to sudgy?

raerae - were you?
Yes, and I quoted it word for word.

One of you is lying!  Eevee says that Sudgy's PR allowed him to make a reply.  Raerae says that Sudgy left instructions for how to communicate based on her first post of the day.  Why would raerae need to communicate this way if she could just reply directly to Sudgy?!?!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1576 on: June 15, 2013, 10:42:59 pm »

I'm inclined to think it's raerae.  Sudgy had asked for Eevee to clarify his reponse... this implies that there was, in fact, a response.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1577 on: June 15, 2013, 10:43:09 pm »

Bump

Soft deadline, anyone?  How about Tues night? 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1578 on: June 15, 2013, 10:43:47 pm »

Tuesday night works for me.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1579 on: June 15, 2013, 10:50:25 pm »

I'm inclined to think it's raerae.  Sudgy had asked for Eevee to clarify his reponse... this implies that there was, in fact, a response.
Are you implying raerae and sudgy are scum together?

Is there any other play than to lynch sudgy tonight? Like I know it kills me as well, but we can't possibly win while he lives, so those are dem beats.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1580 on: June 15, 2013, 10:53:08 pm »

I don't know what to think.  All of my scumreads are focused on the group of Sudgy, Eevee, and Raerae.  I don't know within those three.

I was damn sure it was Eevee-Raerae before today, but gosh, could Sudgy have been more shady?  He still hasn't denied sending another player a message in which he admitted he was scum!

I don't want to rush into anything here.  I could see myself deciding to lynch Sudgy, or Raerae, or Eevee.  I don't know at this point.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1581 on: June 15, 2013, 10:53:57 pm »

I guess I should say I was sure it was eevee-raerae early today after early interactions, before Sudgy showed up.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1582 on: June 15, 2013, 10:55:34 pm »

I'm inclined to think it's raerae.  Sudgy had asked for Eevee to clarify his reponse... this implies that there was, in fact, a response.
Are you implying raerae and sudgy are scum together?

Is there any other play than to lynch sudgy tonight? Like I know it kills me as well, but we can't possibly win while he lives, so those are dem beats.
I think a sudgy lynch is probably the best course.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1583 on: June 15, 2013, 10:59:14 pm »

I'm going to be busy a bunch tomorrow, so I'll put my vote down now.  But no rush!

vote: sudgy
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1584 on: June 15, 2013, 11:03:17 pm »

EFHW:  Do you agree with my comment that one of Raerae and Eevee must be lying?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1585 on: June 15, 2013, 11:35:38 pm »

EFHW:  Do you agree with my comment that one of Raerae and Eevee must be lying?
I do.

And yes EFHW (to the question you asked me last page), nkirbit's answer was right.

With sudgy being so shady, could do either Eevee or sudgy (even though killing one will probably kill the other) and maybe raerae.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1586 on: June 15, 2013, 11:57:32 pm »

Sorry I was being so shady in what I was saying, I was trying to figure out if Eevee was a survivor (it seemed he should say but he didn't).  I think he isn't now (but please feel fine to correct me).

First, I missed a part of my PM that said my lovers can whisper me back.  I completely missed that when I read it, and I'm sorry.

So: I PMed Eevee, but not with that message.  I said:

"Since we both basically know each other is town (and we're flavorfully linked, so why not), we should try to coordinate our efforts."

So, his fabrication is a lie.  Vote: Eevee.  I'm pretty sure he claimed my lover as a fakeclaim to not get lynched.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1587 on: June 16, 2013, 12:46:55 am »

If you're town, why does it matter if he's a survivor or not?  If he's a survivor, he's not the one you're trying to lynch, right?

Also, forgive me if I'm wrong, as I've never played a game with a survivor before.  Couldn't, at this point, a survivor say "Hey mafia!  I'm a survivor!  I can join with you guys, it's 3v3, we win!" ? and just win the game there (assuming there is a 2 scum team, of course.  If there's multiple teams (I don't think there are) this wouldn't work).
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1588 on: June 16, 2013, 01:07:04 am »

Mail-Mi:  Please don't vote Sudgy yet.  I still think that an eevee-raerae team is a strong possibility, and if both you and EFHW are on Sudgy (which EFHW already is), they can quickhammer for the win.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1589 on: June 16, 2013, 01:12:39 am »

Well, now that I think about it, it doesn't matter.  He wasn't even responding how I would think he would respond if that was what I would actually send him.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1590 on: June 16, 2013, 07:17:37 am »

vote: sudgy
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1591 on: June 16, 2013, 07:41:30 am »

Vote Count III.I:

Eevee (2): mail-mi, sudgy
sudgy (2): EFHW, Eevee

Not Voting (2): nkirbit, raerae

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1592 on: June 16, 2013, 11:24:58 am »

Sorry I was being so shady in what I was saying, I was trying to figure out if Eevee was a survivor (it seemed he should say but he didn't).  I think he isn't now (but please feel fine to correct me).

First, I missed a part of my PM that said my lovers can whisper me back.  I completely missed that when I read it, and I'm sorry.

So: I PMed Eevee, but not with that message.  I said:

"Since we both basically know each other is town (and we're flavorfully linked, so why not), we should try to coordinate our efforts."

So, his fabrication is a lie.  Vote: Eevee.  I'm pretty sure he claimed my lover as a fakeclaim to not get lynched.
I don't know about this.  It's a he-said, he-said. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1593 on: June 16, 2013, 11:25:42 am »

Well, now that I think about it, it doesn't matter.  He wasn't even responding how I would think he would respond if that was what I would actually send him.
What doesn't matter?  How would you expect him to respond to the message he says you sent?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1594 on: June 16, 2013, 11:26:45 am »

Well, now that I think about it, it doesn't matter.  He wasn't even responding how I would think he would respond if that was what I would actually send him.
What doesn't matter?  How would you expect him to respond to the message he says you sent?

If he's a survivor or not.  And, if he was the survivor, he would have responded a lot differently.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1595 on: June 16, 2013, 11:28:19 am »

If you're town, why does it matter if he's a survivor or not?  If he's a survivor, he's not the one you're trying to lynch, right?

Also, forgive me if I'm wrong, as I've never played a game with a survivor before.  Couldn't, at this point, a survivor say "Hey mafia!  I'm a survivor!  I can join with you guys, it's 3v3, we win!" ? and just win the game there (assuming there is a 2 scum team, of course.  If there's multiple teams (I don't think there are) this wouldn't work).
I don't think it works that way.  Even if survivor says they're joining mafia, the mafia themselves need to be half of town.  I think, though I don't understand it, that the survivor does not count as part of town in that calculation, though.  Can anyone clarify that?  Of course, it might not even apply in this game.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1596 on: June 16, 2013, 11:29:11 am »

Well, now that I think about it, it doesn't matter.  He wasn't even responding how I would think he would respond if that was what I would actually send him.
What doesn't matter?  How would you expect him to respond to the message he says you sent?

If he's a survivor or not.  And, if he was the survivor, he would have responded a lot differently.
So you're saying you didn't send the message, but now that he's put it out there, the way he has reacted to his own message tells you he isn't a survivor?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1597 on: June 16, 2013, 11:30:56 am »

Well, now that I think about it, it doesn't matter.  He wasn't even responding how I would think he would respond if that was what I would actually send him.
What doesn't matter?  How would you expect him to respond to the message he says you sent?

If he's a survivor or not.  And, if he was the survivor, he would have responded a lot differently.
So you're saying you didn't send the message, but now that he's put it out there, the way he has reacted to his own message tells you he isn't a survivor?

Yes.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1598 on: June 16, 2013, 11:31:19 am »

EFHW:  If you want to lynch Sudgy, please, please lynch Eevee instead.

But, regardless of whether I'm correct, I think Eevee is a strictly better lynch than Sudgy.  Either

  • Eevee is lying, and we catch scum, or
  • Eevee is telling the truth that he's lovers with Sudgy, we mislynch Eevee but get Sudgy anyway, and are in the same exact spot as a Sudgy lynch.

Lynching Eevee is better than lynching Sudgy if Eevee is lying, and the same as lynching Sudgy if Eevee is telling us the truth.  Even if you think Eevee is telling the truth, you should be okay with lynching Eevee, because it's strictly better than lynching Sudgy!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1599 on: June 16, 2013, 11:43:42 am »

EFHW:  If you want to lynch Sudgy, please, please lynch Eevee instead.

But, regardless of whether I'm correct, I think Eevee is a strictly better lynch than Sudgy.  Either

  • Eevee is lying, and we catch scum, or
  • Eevee is telling the truth that he's lovers with Sudgy, we mislynch Eevee but get Sudgy anyway, and are in the same exact spot as a Sudgy lynch.

Lynching Eevee is better than lynching Sudgy if Eevee is lying, and the same as lynching Sudgy if Eevee is telling us the truth.  Even if you think Eevee is telling the truth, you should be okay with lynching Eevee, because it's strictly better than lynching Sudgy!
Lynching Eevee is NOT the same as lynching sudgy.  As I said in an earlier post, there is a lot of uncertainty about whether killing Eevee would kill sudgy.  1.  Eevee could be lying.  2.  Eevee could be the one who isn't really sudgy's lover.  3.  There could be some twist we don't understand.  Or, if you think it would work and you want to kill Eevee, why don't you switch to sudgy?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1600 on: June 16, 2013, 11:48:14 am »

EFHW:  If you want to lynch Sudgy, please, please lynch Eevee instead.

But, regardless of whether I'm correct, I think Eevee is a strictly better lynch than Sudgy.  Either

  • Eevee is lying, and we catch scum, or
  • Eevee is telling the truth that he's lovers with Sudgy, we mislynch Eevee but get Sudgy anyway, and are in the same exact spot as a Sudgy lynch.

Lynching Eevee is better than lynching Sudgy if Eevee is lying, and the same as lynching Sudgy if Eevee is telling us the truth.  Even if you think Eevee is telling the truth, you should be okay with lynching Eevee, because it's strictly better than lynching Sudgy!
Lynching Eevee is NOT the same as lynching sudgy.  As I said in an earlier post, there is a lot of uncertainty about whether killing Eevee would kill sudgy.  1.  Eevee could be lying.  2.  Eevee could be the one who isn't really sudgy's lover.  3.  There could be some twist we don't understand.  Or, if you think it would work and you want to kill Eevee, why don't you switch to sudgy?

#1: if Eevee is lying, we don't want to kill Sudgy, we want to lynch Eevee.  That's the point.
#2: we have no evidence of another Julia/Sylvia existing.  If that's you, I think you should say it to possibly get me off of this lynch, but otherwise, I'm not even considering Sudgy as an option.
#3: Possibly, I can't deny that.  In my view, it's likelier that Eevee is lying than some twist, but if you really believe Sudgy here, I guess you're right in this.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1601 on: June 16, 2013, 11:50:23 am »

The only other lynch I would consider is Raerae.  Raerae claims to have gotten a message from Sudgy that talks about how to communicate by her first post, which is inconsistent with something both Eevee and Sudgy have claimed about.  So, from my perspective, the only way that Raerae is town is if both Sudgy and Eevee are scum.

Is that a possible team?  Would Eevee be bussing this hard if Sudgy were her teammate?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1602 on: June 16, 2013, 11:51:00 am »

His teammate.  I keep wanting to think Eevee is a she haha, even though I know that's not the case!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1603 on: June 16, 2013, 11:53:14 am »

Sudgy is a stronger scumread than Eevee for me.  That is why I'm going to stay with voting him.  You're going with your stronger scumread.  So let's see what the others think.

PPE: raerae is really a null read for me.  I wouldn't vote for her at this point.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1604 on: June 16, 2013, 11:53:56 am »

And, since apparently we can do this, this is the message sudgy sent me.  If you're town, is this what you waste your PM on?

"I'm whispering to you, as you're my top townread. I'll say I whispered to you, then you say so. Also, if you are Julia or Silvia, please start you're first post with a letter in the first half of the alphabet."

Eevee - So you were allowed to send a reply PM to sudgy?

raerae - were you?
Yes, and I quoted it word for word.

One of you is lying!  Eevee says that Sudgy's PR allowed him to make a reply.  Raerae says that Sudgy left instructions for how to communicate based on her first post of the day.  Why would raerae need to communicate this way if she could just reply directly to Sudgy?!?!

You never noticed this before, or didn't respond.  Do you think it's a legit argument?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1605 on: June 16, 2013, 11:54:31 am »

Sudgy is a stronger scumread than Eevee for me.  That is why I'm going to stay with voting him.  You're going with your stronger scumread.  So let's see what the others think.

PPE: raerae is really a null read for me.  I wouldn't vote for her at this point.

Actually, she's closer to town.  The funniness about the replying to posts and did she leave the "C" on purpose are bothering me, but it's not like I have no impressions of her.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1606 on: June 16, 2013, 11:57:49 am »

What is scummy about Sudgy?  Apart from raerae's case that he's a claimed lover who's been left alive twice, which I don't buy for a second, I'm not actually sure why we're suspicious of him.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1607 on: June 16, 2013, 11:58:28 am »

And, since apparently we can do this, this is the message sudgy sent me.  If you're town, is this what you waste your PM on?
"I'm whispering to you, as you're my top townread. I'll say I whispered to you, then you say so. Also, if you are Julia or Silvia, please start you're first post with a letter in the first half of the alphabet."
Eevee - So you were allowed to send a reply PM to sudgy?
raerae - were you?
Yes, and I quoted it word for word.
One of you is lying!  Eevee says that Sudgy's PR allowed him to make a reply.  Raerae says that Sudgy left instructions for how to communicate based on her first post of the day.  Why would raerae need to communicate this way if she could just reply directly to Sudgy?!?!
You never noticed this before, or didn't respond.  Do you think it's a legit argument?
sudgy says he didn't notice they could respond.  Seems kind of far-fetched, but who knows.  Sudgy didn't ask for a response by pm from Eevee, which I'm sure he would have wanted.  What I'd like to know is 1. if raerae was told she could respond and 2. if she did so and 3. if so why hasn't she mentioned that.  I presume Eevee was told he could send a response - is that true Eevee?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1608 on: June 16, 2013, 11:58:39 am »

I guess Eevee's claim, if you believe it, makes him pretty scummy, haha.  I don't, so that's why I don't find him scummy, but if you do I suppose that's a pretty good reason.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1609 on: June 16, 2013, 11:59:47 am »

Oh wow, reading back, you're right.  Sudgy missed that.. I thought he had said that he had missed typing it initially, but you're right, he missed it himself.  That's odd.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1610 on: June 16, 2013, 12:02:12 pm »

Eevee's claim makes Eevee scummy or makes sudgy scummy?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1611 on: June 16, 2013, 12:07:35 pm »

Eevee's claim, if true, makes Sudgy scummy.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1612 on: June 16, 2013, 12:08:38 pm »

I guess Eevee's claim, if you believe it, makes him pretty scummy, haha.  I don't, so that's why I don't find him scummy, but if you do I suppose that's a pretty good reason.

I guess Eevee's claim, if you believe it, makes Sudgy pretty scummy, haha.  I don't [believe Eevee's claim], so that's why I don't find Sudgy scummy, but if you do [believe Eevee's claim] I suppose that's a pretty good reason [to find Sudgy scummy].

That was a very poorly written sentence.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1613 on: June 16, 2013, 12:10:51 pm »

Raerae and Sudgy:  Did raerae reply to Sudgy's message?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1614 on: June 16, 2013, 12:11:23 pm »

She did not.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1615 on: June 16, 2013, 12:12:20 pm »

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1616 on: June 16, 2013, 12:13:14 pm »

Why did you leave no way for Eevee to respond to the message you sent him via a code like you did with raerae, given that you hadn't realized replies were possible?

Furthermore, is that the message you sent raerae?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1617 on: June 16, 2013, 12:18:49 pm »

He was also on the TA wagon when no one was quick-hammering and no one from that wagon quick-hammered him.  This makes me think he and his partner were on the TA wagon before the hammer.  That was him, Eevee and mail-mi.  I think he would need to be one of the scum because no one from his wagon hammered him.  If he was town and Eevee and mail-mi were the scum, one of them would have hammered him.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1618 on: June 16, 2013, 12:19:05 pm »

You're right, EFHW.  He does look scummy.  Ugh, this is hard.

While you're here, what are your reads on myself and mail-mi?  I have very towny reads on you and mail-mi, that should be obvious by now.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1619 on: June 16, 2013, 12:20:30 pm »

He was also on the TA wagon when no one was quick-hammering and no one from that wagon quick-hammered him.  This makes me think he and his partner were on the TA wagon before the hammer.  That was him, Eevee and mail-mi.  I think he would need to be one of the scum because no one from his wagon hammered him.  If he was town and Eevee and mail-mi were the scum, one of them would have hammered him.

We can't be 100% sure of this, since we weren't in MYLO, but there's a decent chance this is true, I suppose.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1620 on: June 16, 2013, 12:21:22 pm »

He was also on the TA wagon when no one was quick-hammering and no one from that wagon quick-hammered him.  This makes me think he and his partner were on the TA wagon before the hammer.  That was him, Eevee and mail-mi.  I think he would need to be one of the scum because no one from his wagon hammered him.  If he was town and Eevee and mail-mi were the scum, one of them would have hammered him.

And by this logic, the only possible scum-team, from your perspective, should Sudgy be town, would be myself and raerae (assuming scumteam of 2).
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1621 on: June 16, 2013, 12:21:48 pm »

You're right, EFHW.  He does look scummy.  Ugh, this is hard.

While you're here, what are your reads on myself and mail-mi?  I have very towny reads on you and mail-mi, that should be obvious by now.
I think you are town.  I have serious doubts about mail-mi.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1622 on: June 16, 2013, 12:22:37 pm »

Why did you leave no way for Eevee to respond to the message you sent him via a code like you did with raerae, given that you hadn't realized replies were possible?

I felt it would be okay for him to reply at daytime, that's different than raerae's reply (which was something only town members should know).

Quote
Furthermore, is that the message you sent raerae?

Yep.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1623 on: June 16, 2013, 12:23:36 pm »

But when you sent the message to Eevee, you were not aware that replying directly to you was an option?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1624 on: June 16, 2013, 12:24:36 pm »

But when you sent the message to Eevee, you were not aware that replying directly to you was an option?

I was not aware.  After I got the reply, I re-read the whispering part of my PM and saw that it said my lovers can whisper back if they want.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1625 on: June 16, 2013, 12:26:00 pm »

Oh, it's lovers only.  Hm.  Okay.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1626 on: June 16, 2013, 12:31:27 pm »

Okay, so here's what I think about Sudgy:

We have the Day1 case, which seems okay, but it's really not any stronger than the case we had on Xeiron, for example, before he claimed.

We have Eevee claiming that Sudgy is scum.  This is pretty obviously a huge deal, and leads us to choosing between Eevee and Sudgy.

We also have Eevee claiming to be Sudgy's lover.  If Eevee is town, we can believe this claim.

I know Sudgy has appeared scummy, and could easily be scum, but Eevee has done things that have appeared scummy to myself as well.  Not switching to raerae at the end of day2 was scummy to me, for example.

Furthermore, I still doubt Eevee's claim, because I'm choosing to believe the storyline that doesn't have a mafia member admitting to a non-mafia member that they're mafia.  I just don't believe anyone would do that.

If we lynch Eevee, and we're wrong, we still may have Sudgy commit suicide regardless.  If we're wrong, we know that Eevee is either Julia/Sylvia, and that may be good enough.

For me, the chance that Eevee is lying is still significantly larger than the chance that we mislynch Eevee and don't get sudgy, so I'm going to keep my focus on trying to lynch Eevee.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1627 on: June 16, 2013, 12:38:26 pm »

Re-reading TA's lynch, it seems that the entire case on him by Eevee/Mail-Mi/Sudgy was that he was pushing for a lynch of claimed lovers.  Eevee and Mail-mi immediately voted one after the other, Sudgy followed, then after quite a while you hammered.  Not sure what to make of that wagon.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1628 on: June 16, 2013, 12:42:03 pm »

Here are a couple more reasons Eevee et al suspected TA. 

I wanted to remind myself of the reasons Eevee suspected TA and raerae.  I see several re: TA, but his scumread on raerae eludes me.

if raerae is not scum here then I don't know who ever was scum anywhere!

look, anything that happened before tonight is not even relevant. We got scum to paint themselves in the corner with ta continuing to push for sudgy while accepting me as an ic.
Here he says TA is scummy because of the contradiction of believing Eevee was town and continuing to believe sudgy was scum.

I accept you for a misguided IC!
Sorry, why would Sudgy be alive?
I hate to ask you to claim more, but did you prevent Sudgy from being killed last night?
If no one can claim any reason why Sudgy would be alive, then that means it's more likely he's scum.
You have been fishing for me to claim more and more about my role all day, way more than I was comfortable claiming. Now that I strongly suspect, dare I say know, that you are scum, I refuse to answer such inquiries and advice all other townies to do the same.
It's pretty obvious there is a plethora of roles that could cause the target of a night kill to live though.
Here he accuses TA of rolefishing.

Eevee and mail-mi voted TA in quick succession:
Vote: TA Scum is really trying to push this lover lunch.
Vote: TA
Have we considered an Eevee/mail-mi team?  I'll look into that next.

Eevee - please say more about why you suspected raerae.  Sorry if I missed it.  Reading through the last part of Day 2, I couldn't find anything.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1629 on: June 16, 2013, 12:42:53 pm »

I'm going to be afk for the rest of the day.  I'll check back in this evening.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1630 on: June 16, 2013, 01:13:52 pm »

Eevee - So you were allowed to send a reply PM to sudgy?

raerae - were you?

No, I was not allowed to reply.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1631 on: June 16, 2013, 01:14:33 pm »

To people who think I'm just inventing this whisper, I'd like you to think about sudgy's reaction to me posting it. It wasn't "lies lies lies vote eevee!", it was "what did you mean with your reply?". Only afterwards he started calling it a lie.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1632 on: June 16, 2013, 01:19:46 pm »

Raerae and Sudgy:  Did raerae reply to Sudgy's message?

I wasn't allowed to.  Never given that option.  I got the PM and the day opened immediately.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1633 on: June 16, 2013, 01:22:12 pm »

To people who think I'm just inventing this whisper, I'd like you to think about sudgy's reaction to me posting it. It wasn't "lies lies lies vote eevee!", it was "what did you mean with your reply?". Only afterwards he started calling it a lie.

Yes, this is troubling.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1634 on: June 16, 2013, 01:27:02 pm »

To people who think I'm just inventing this whisper, I'd like you to think about sudgy's reaction to me posting it. It wasn't "lies lies lies vote eevee!", it was "what did you mean with your reply?". Only afterwards he started calling it a lie.

Yes, this is troubling.
If I was scum and wanted to frame sudgy, do you think I would have chosen "he told me in a whisper" over say claiming to have a power role result or something?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1635 on: June 16, 2013, 01:32:53 pm »

I don't know.  You may or may not have.. I'm not going to speculate as to what a scum would or wouldn't do, because it's easy enough to do A and have the defense of "Well, wouldn't I do B instead if I were scum?".

Again, my desire to lynch you isn't entirely based on you having to be scum.  I think it may be correct even if there's a decent chance you're town.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1636 on: June 16, 2013, 01:34:09 pm »

My issues with your claim and sudgy's response:

We've seen a cleaner, well-thought out claim met with a messier response two times recently:  In pirates and mean girls.  Twice, we've lynched the second person, and twice, we've been wrong.  It's something to think about.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1637 on: June 16, 2013, 01:39:09 pm »

I think this is a whole lot different than me versus galzria in pirates. I to this day don't know what was messy about my claim in pirates, I laid out all the facts and my reasons in my first post after seeing Galzria's claim. Here, sudgy doesn't even acknowledge the fact that I (allegedly) am lying about him basically claiming scum to me. Isn't that like, pretty huge?

Can't obviously talk about mean girls yet, can't wait until we can though..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1638 on: June 16, 2013, 01:43:20 pm »

So you think that Sudgy was unsure whether or not you were a survivor, and was holding out hope that you were and he could just win on the spot?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1639 on: June 16, 2013, 01:46:35 pm »

I think it's extremely sloppy play regardless of whether he's town or scum.  If he's town, he should have come out with the strategy of "deny, deny, deny", and if he's scum, he should have come out with the strategy of "deny, deny, deny."

I am unsure that it points more towards him being scum than town, though.  Maybe it does.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1640 on: June 16, 2013, 01:46:55 pm »

So you think that Sudgy was unsure whether or not you were a survivor, and was holding out hope that you were and he could just win on the spot?
I don't know, I think maybe he thought I would be on his side. I don't know how he could after I posted his whisper publicly, but maybe he got confused.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1641 on: June 16, 2013, 01:48:07 pm »

I agree to an extent, but I think for town the natural reaction is to deny (as in that case I would be lying). Scum sudgy has to form a strategy, something he didn't maybe think of when making that first post.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1642 on: June 16, 2013, 01:52:01 pm »

Man, I'm just having a hard time believing that Sudgy would, as scum, whisper a non-scum and tell him that he was scum, and then not have a plan for when that person revealed that information.  That's just monumentally bad play if that's in fact what happened, or the biggest WIFOM ever.

Sudgy stumbled, that's for sure.  I'm thinking the stumbling came because he was surprised and wasn't sure how to handle the situation.  For me, it seems much more likely that he was surprised by scum!eevee making a fake claim he wasn't expecting than town!eevee posting a real message.  I think he would have had a plan for the second.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1643 on: June 16, 2013, 02:26:24 pm »

Man, I'm just having a hard time believing that Sudgy would, as scum, whisper a non-scum and tell him that he was scum, and then not have a plan for when that person revealed that information.  That's just monumentally bad play if that's in fact what happened, or the biggest WIFOM ever.

Sudgy stumbled, that's for sure.  I'm thinking the stumbling came because he was surprised and wasn't sure how to handle the situation.  For me, it seems much more likely that he was surprised by scum!eevee making a fake claim he wasn't expecting than town!eevee posting a real message.  I think he would have had a plan for the second.

If sudgy were town and Eevee were lying scum, why didn't sudgy just post the real message?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1644 on: June 16, 2013, 03:10:23 pm »

To people who think I'm just inventing this whisper, I'd like you to think about sudgy's reaction to me posting it. It wasn't "lies lies lies vote eevee!", it was "what did you mean with your reply?". Only afterwards he started calling it a lie.

I was trying to see how you would react.  As soon as I felt I had gotten enough, I said you were lying and such.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1645 on: June 16, 2013, 03:10:39 pm »

Man, I'm just having a hard time believing that Sudgy would, as scum, whisper a non-scum and tell him that he was scum, and then not have a plan for when that person revealed that information.  That's just monumentally bad play if that's in fact what happened, or the biggest WIFOM ever.

Sudgy stumbled, that's for sure.  I'm thinking the stumbling came because he was surprised and wasn't sure how to handle the situation.  For me, it seems much more likely that he was surprised by scum!eevee making a fake claim he wasn't expecting than town!eevee posting a real message.  I think he would have had a plan for the second.

If sudgy were town and Eevee were lying scum, why didn't sudgy just post the real message?

I did.  Just after a bit.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1646 on: June 16, 2013, 03:13:26 pm »

To people who think I'm just inventing this whisper, I'd like you to think about sudgy's reaction to me posting it. It wasn't "lies lies lies vote eevee!", it was "what did you mean with your reply?". Only afterwards he started calling it a lie.

I was trying to see how you would react.  As soon as I felt I had gotten enough, I said you were lying and such.
Why would you need a reaction? If I was lying, you would just instantly know I must be mafia.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1647 on: June 16, 2013, 03:37:51 pm »

Man, I'm just having a hard time believing that Sudgy would, as scum, whisper a non-scum and tell him that he was scum, and then not have a plan for when that person revealed that information.  That's just monumentally bad play if that's in fact what happened, or the biggest WIFOM ever.

Sudgy stumbled, that's for sure.  I'm thinking the stumbling came because he was surprised and wasn't sure how to handle the situation.  For me, it seems much more likely that he was surprised by scum!eevee making a fake claim he wasn't expecting than town!eevee posting a real message.  I think he would have had a plan for the second.

If sudgy were town and Eevee were lying scum, why didn't sudgy just post the real message?

I did.  Just after a bit.

I missed that...can you quote please?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1648 on: June 16, 2013, 03:40:25 pm »

Sorry I was being so shady in what I was saying, I was trying to figure out if Eevee was a survivor (it seemed he should say but he didn't).  I think he isn't now (but please feel fine to correct me).

First, I missed a part of my PM that said my lovers can whisper me back.  I completely missed that when I read it, and I'm sorry.

So: I PMed Eevee, but not with that message.  I said:

"Since we both basically know each other is town (and we're flavorfully linked, so why not), we should try to coordinate our efforts."

So, his fabrication is a lie.  Vote: Eevee.  I'm pretty sure he claimed my lover as a fakeclaim to not get lynched.

This is his claim. Btw, sudgy, what do you claim I messaged you back?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1649 on: June 16, 2013, 03:42:59 pm »

Sorry I was being so shady in what I was saying, I was trying to figure out if Eevee was a survivor (it seemed he should say but he didn't).  I think he isn't now (but please feel fine to correct me).

First, I missed a part of my PM that said my lovers can whisper me back.  I completely missed that when I read it, and I'm sorry.

So: I PMed Eevee, but not with that message.  I said:

"Since we both basically know each other is town (and we're flavorfully linked, so why not), we should try to coordinate our efforts."

So, his fabrication is a lie.  Vote: Eevee.  I'm pretty sure he claimed my lover as a fakeclaim to not get lynched.

This is his claim. Btw, sudgy, what do you claim I messaged you back?

The same thing you did.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1650 on: June 16, 2013, 03:46:24 pm »

So, we both claim my response was "What do you need me to do? Why would you trust me? It does feel like our paths are shared no matter what.."

To what does this look like the reply to? Is it

a) "Since we both basically know each other is town (and we're flavorfully linked, so why not), we should try to coordinate our efforts."

or

b) With the TA lynch, me and my partner have almost no hope. The only thing that can help us is if there is a survivor or something that we can bring to our side. You seemed the most like a survivor, so that's why I'm whispering you. If you don't help us, we WILL night kill you (he has a strongman)."

is what you guys need to decide. Obviously factoring in other stuff that has been going on.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1651 on: June 16, 2013, 03:58:13 pm »

Eevee:  What did you mean to accomplish with your response?  If you know he's scum, and you're town, why even respond?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1652 on: June 16, 2013, 05:10:14 pm »

Sudgy, why have your whispers been so painfully lacking in information or strategy talk?  Both of them (if you are telling the truth) have been nothing more than a "Hey, how's it going?"
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1653 on: June 16, 2013, 05:15:31 pm »

Eevee, with sudgy being your lover, but you aware of his scumminess, are you OK with dying along with him today?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1654 on: June 16, 2013, 05:16:57 pm »

Bump

Soft deadline, anyone?  How about Tues night? 

I'm traveling that day so probably won't be around but I think you guys should move forward anyway if most everybody can be here.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1655 on: June 16, 2013, 05:18:58 pm »

Mail-mi, care you to chime in at all here or are you just going to sit back and watch the show?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1656 on: June 16, 2013, 05:31:15 pm »

Eevee, with sudgy being your lover, but you aware of his scumminess, are you OK with dying along with him today?
Yes, as far as I can see our near zero chance is exactly zero unless we get rid of sudgy. To avoid anything weird from happening, I would like to see him lynched instead of me.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1657 on: June 16, 2013, 05:31:46 pm »

Eevee:  What did you mean to accomplish with your response?  If you know he's scum, and you're town, why even respond?
Well, as he thought contacting me was necessary, I thought he might reveal more.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1658 on: June 16, 2013, 05:56:47 pm »

Sudgy, why have your whispers been so painfully lacking in information or strategy talk?  Both of them (if you are telling the truth) have been nothing more than a "Hey, how's it going?"

Well, I haven't been able to think of much to say...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1659 on: June 16, 2013, 06:26:21 pm »

Mail-mi, care you to chime in at all here or are you just going to sit back and watch the show?
Sure. Okay, so in what world does sudgy send that message to Eevee? (The message that Eevee proposed.) it is so obviously Eevee.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1660 on: June 16, 2013, 06:31:32 pm »

Sudgy, why have your whispers been so painfully lacking in information or strategy talk?  Both of them (if you are telling the truth) have been nothing more than a "Hey, how's it going?"

Well, I haven't been able to think of much to say...

Why didn't you immediately call either Eevee or myself out for lying when he claimed to be your partner yesterday?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1661 on: June 16, 2013, 06:33:36 pm »

Mail-mi, care you to chime in at all here or are you just going to sit back and watch the show?
Sure. Okay, so in what world does sudgy send that message to Eevee? (The message that Eevee proposed.) it is so obviously Eevee.
In what world he reacts to me posting a fake message like he did? In what world I come up with a message like that?

Sudgy, do you know we are lovers?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1662 on: June 16, 2013, 06:35:08 pm »

Mail-mi, care you to chime in at all here or are you just going to sit back and watch the show?
Sure. Okay, so in what world does sudgy send that message to Eevee? (The message that Eevee proposed.) it is so obviously Eevee.

Why would Eevee (a pretty damn advanced scum player) make up something that awkward?  Why does he make it up against his lover?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1663 on: June 16, 2013, 06:57:00 pm »

Mail-mi, care you to chime in at all here or are you just going to sit back and watch the show?
Sure. Okay, so in what world does sudgy send that message to Eevee? (The message that Eevee proposed.) it is so obviously Eevee.

Why would Eevee (a pretty damn advanced scum player) make up something that awkward?  Why does he make it up against his lover?
Why does sudgy send that message of all the things he could say?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1664 on: June 16, 2013, 07:03:14 pm »

Mail-mi, care you to chime in at all here or are you just going to sit back and watch the show?
Sure. Okay, so in what world does sudgy send that message to Eevee? (The message that Eevee proposed.) it is so obviously Eevee.

Why would Eevee (a pretty damn advanced scum player) make up something that awkward?  Why does he make it up against his lover?
Why does sudgy send that message of all the things he could say?

None of sudgy's messages made a ton of sense.  His first one to me and then both of the two in question are weird as weird.  Why have you defended him day after day?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1665 on: June 16, 2013, 07:06:33 pm »

Mail-mi, care you to chime in at all here or are you just going to sit back and watch the show?
Sure. Okay, so in what world does sudgy send that message to Eevee? (The message that Eevee proposed.) it is so obviously Eevee.

Why would Eevee (a pretty damn advanced scum player) make up something that awkward?  Why does he make it up against his lover?
Why does sudgy send that message of all the things he could say?

None of sudgy's messages made a ton of sense.  His first one to me and then both of the two in question are weird as weird.  Why have you defended him day after day?
He was seeming more like his town self earlier on. Now, he's my top 2nd scum read.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1666 on: June 16, 2013, 07:14:07 pm »

Mail-mi, care you to chime in at all here or are you just going to sit back and watch the show?
Sure. Okay, so in what world does sudgy send that message to Eevee? (The message that Eevee proposed.) it is so obviously Eevee.

Why would Eevee (a pretty damn advanced scum player) make up something that awkward?  Why does he make it up against his lover?
Why does sudgy send that message of all the things he could say?

None of sudgy's messages made a ton of sense.  His first one to me and then both of the two in question are weird as weird.  Why have you defended him day after day?
He was seeming more like his town self earlier on. Now, he's my top 2nd scum read.

So you think Eevee & sudgy are scum together?  And are lovers?  And are fake-claiming the shit out of each other?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1667 on: June 16, 2013, 07:23:07 pm »

Well, we have confirmation from sudgy that himself and eevee are lovers.  That's something we didn't have before.  That makes me much, much more willing to lynch sudgy.

Before, I only had a claim from eevee, and couldn't be sure that they were in fact lovers, but now that sudgy has claimed it as well, that changes everything.

I would will be willing to vote sudgy at this point. I'm on my phone now and can't review easily, so I'm not going to now, but I'm probably headed that way
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1668 on: June 16, 2013, 07:49:04 pm »

Mail-mi, care you to chime in at all here or are you just going to sit back and watch the show?
Sure. Okay, so in what world does sudgy send that message to Eevee? (The message that Eevee proposed.) it is so obviously Eevee.

Why would Eevee (a pretty damn advanced scum player) make up something that awkward?  Why does he make it up against his lover?
Why does sudgy send that message of all the things he could say?

None of sudgy's messages made a ton of sense.  His first one to me and then both of the two in question are weird as weird.  Why have you defended him day after day?
He was seeming more like his town self earlier on. Now, he's my top 2nd scum read.

So you think Eevee & sudgy are scum together?  And are lovers?  And are fake-claiming the shit out of each other?
I think 99% one is, .5% none, .5% both.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1669 on: June 16, 2013, 09:15:19 pm »

I'm back - I encourage everyone to go with sudgy.  It's long overdue.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1670 on: June 16, 2013, 09:18:32 pm »

I'm back - I encourage everyone to go with sudgy.  It's long overdue.
Well, killing one will kill the other...

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1671 on: June 16, 2013, 09:18:37 pm »

raerae - please don't go v/la without voting.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1672 on: June 16, 2013, 09:19:01 pm »

Yeah, I'll vote: sudgy
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1673 on: June 16, 2013, 09:19:08 pm »

I'm back - I encourage everyone to go with sudgy.  It's long overdue.
Well, killing one will kill the other...
I'm not making any assumptions about that.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1674 on: June 16, 2013, 09:19:36 pm »

That's L-1. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1675 on: June 16, 2013, 09:20:20 pm »

I'm back - I encourage everyone to go with sudgy.  It's long overdue.
Well, killing one will kill the other...
I'm not making any assumptions about that.
Eevee replied to sudgy's whisper. Only his lovers could do that.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1676 on: June 16, 2013, 09:23:43 pm »

I'm back - I encourage everyone to go with sudgy.  It's long overdue.
Well, killing one will kill the other...
I'm not making any assumptions about that.
Eevee replied to sudgy's whisper. Only his lovers could do that.
I believe they are lovers.  I'm just not willing to vote for Eevee assuming sudgy would die too.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1677 on: June 16, 2013, 09:27:42 pm »

I'm fine with a hammer. Thanks for believing me guys, although it's probably just the non-sudgy scumteam and town is lost no matter what.

Still, got to try to lynch scum until the mod tells us the game is over.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1678 on: June 16, 2013, 09:37:57 pm »

I've looked it over, and I'm good with a vote: sudgy
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1679 on: June 16, 2013, 09:38:56 pm »

Alright ash time for a flip!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1680 on: June 16, 2013, 09:48:28 pm »

Ash is usually on around these times. No way sudgy's team is the only scum team with the quickness of this lynch, just no way. Either his whisper got messed with by scum or the other scum is just going to win soon.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1681 on: June 16, 2013, 09:57:45 pm »

I don't know. You, raerae, and efhw were on board with it.  I flipped, and mail-mi could have bused.

I think my initial guess today was way off.  Or it may not be, who knows
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1682 on: June 16, 2013, 09:59:53 pm »

My previous unwillingness to switch Sudgy that suddenly went away had to do with the fact that before just recently, we weren't sure that Sudgy and Eevee were in fact partners.  It's possible that Eevee was lying completely about being partners with Sudgy!  But once Sudgy and Eevee both had evidence that they were partners, they're either partners or both of them are lying, either way I'm comfortable lynching Sudgy.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1683 on: June 16, 2013, 10:00:43 pm »

My previous unwillingness to switch Sudgy that suddenly went away had to do with the fact that before just recently, we weren't sure that Sudgy and Eevee were in fact partners.  It's possible that Eevee was lying completely about being partners with Sudgy!  But once Sudgy and Eevee both had evidence that they were partners, they're either partners or both of them are lying, either way I'm comfortable lynching Sudgy.
Same here.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1684 on: June 16, 2013, 10:01:08 pm »

Man, that's so sheepy.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1685 on: June 16, 2013, 10:05:14 pm »

Man, that's so sheepy.
Do you even know me? You said what I was thinking.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1686 on: June 16, 2013, 10:06:40 pm »

Fair enough!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1687 on: June 16, 2013, 10:35:58 pm »

Very nervous waiting here... EFHW joining innovation hasn't helped me at all, either :P
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1688 on: June 16, 2013, 10:38:40 pm »

Very nervous waiting here... EFHW joining innovation hasn't helped me at all, either :P
I've given up on a town win already, very interested to see how it plays out though.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1689 on: June 16, 2013, 10:38:55 pm »

Very nervous waiting here... EFHW joining innovation hasn't helped me at all, either :P
You should too! Sounds fun.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1690 on: June 16, 2013, 10:58:52 pm »

Thread locked.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1691 on: June 16, 2013, 11:02:05 pm »

Final Act III Vote Count:

Eevee (1): sudgy
sudgy (4): EFHW, Eevee, mail-mi, nkirbit

Not Voting (1): raerae

With 6 alive, it took 4 to lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1692 on: June 16, 2013, 11:14:42 pm »

The players, reduced in number, gathered around center stage and decided who to cut from this grand stage production.  There was some argument back and forth, but consensus was found, and sudgy's name was removed from the playbill.

As he fell to the ground, a curtain rope tied around his neck, they could see his Stage Actor's Guild card peeking out of his pocket.  Someone read it out loud: "Proteus, Whispering Lover" was written in bold letters.  At the sound of his name, Eevee fell to the floor.

What was happening?  So much confusion everywhere.  All of a sudden, all the stage lights went out, covering the group in Darkness.  When someone lit a match, they found sudgy's body missing, just a dark smudge of oily residue and a black cape.  The Darkness disappeared through a crack in the cave.  A quiet wail followed the Darkness out of the theatre.

sudgy has been lynched.  He was Darkness, the Whispering Lover Witch!

But wait, what about Eevee?  Someone checked, and felt a pulse.  He must have just fainted...



Night 3 has begun.  All actions are due in 24 hours.  Act IV begins in 48 hours.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1693 on: June 18, 2013, 11:19:58 pm »

The night felt quieter than usual, but maybe it was just the lack of players left on stage.  As they gathered center stage to discuss what to do, they noticed one of their troop hadn't woken up.  And never would.

nkirbit, cast as Dogberry, the Self-Satisfied Night Constable, was dead.


Act IV has begun.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1694 on: June 18, 2013, 11:20:05 pm »

Vote Count Act IV.I:

Not Voting (4): Eevee, EFHW, mail-mi, raerae

With 4 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1695 on: June 18, 2013, 11:24:44 pm »

So the game isnt over!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1696 on: June 18, 2013, 11:38:17 pm »

It was super fun haunting the thread up yesterday but I am the Ghost of Hamlet's Father and got all killed up night two so couldn't vote or anything D3.  EFHW stabbed me.  Kill her now.  Mail-mi sent me stuff to drink last night.  I’m really dead now and this is my last post.  Go forth and rock it town.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1697 on: June 18, 2013, 11:39:01 pm »

Thread locked.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1698 on: June 18, 2013, 11:41:17 pm »

The players looked around, having heard a voice in the air, eerie and forceful.  Everyone saw something different, a floating cape, or a glint of a phantom sword.  Then nothing.

raerae, playing Hamlet's Father, Town Ghost, has died.

Act IV continues.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1699 on: June 18, 2013, 11:41:48 pm »

Vote Count Act IV.II:

Not Voting (3): Eevee, EFHW, mail-mi

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1700 on: June 18, 2013, 11:42:24 pm »

Well that's very interesting!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1701 on: June 18, 2013, 11:49:18 pm »

Lets start with a massclaim?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1702 on: June 18, 2013, 11:58:58 pm »

Um... Was that a mod kill or a town power kill?
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'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1703 on: June 19, 2013, 12:01:50 am »

mailmi so you see any reason not to lynch ehfw as per raerae's message?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1704 on: June 19, 2013, 12:03:12 am »

mailmi so you see any reason not to lynch ehfw as per raerae's message?
Maybe. Why aren't you dead?
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1705 on: June 19, 2013, 12:05:00 am »

mailmi so you see any reason not to lynch ehfw as per raerae's message?
Maybe. Why aren't you dead?
I had a one-shot deathproof. I was sebastian, when the disguise fell I turned into Julia.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1706 on: June 19, 2013, 12:06:11 am »

mailmi so you see any reason not to lynch ehfw as per raerae's message?
Maybe. Why aren't you dead?
I had a one-shot deathproof. I was sebastian, when the disguise fell I turned into Julia.
? Ah we'll. EFHW get in here and flail claim.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1707 on: June 19, 2013, 01:43:01 am »

Vote Count Act IV.III:

Not Voting (3): Eevee, EFHW, mail-mi

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

Act IV ends in 11 days and 18 hours.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1708 on: June 19, 2013, 10:17:10 am »

I don't know what's going on here, but something isn't right.  How is it that raerae would think she had information about who killed her?  She doesn't say how she came to this conclusion, no one has claimed an investigative result.  Last I looked, this wasn't a bastard game.  And if she was really given some kind of message, that message was clearly (to me) meant to deceive.  It doesn't make any sense.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1709 on: June 19, 2013, 10:49:32 am »

She did flip town though, why would she lie?

Can you claim your role, please? Who do you think is scum?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1710 on: June 19, 2013, 12:00:02 pm »

I know she flipped town.  I really can't explain where this is coming from.  She might not be lying, she might be misinformed.  Also why did she mention mail-mi giving her something to drink?  How was that relevant?  Now that we know sudgy was scum, mail-mi would be my suspect as scum b/c of sudgy's message to you.  Or maybe you inherited sudgy's whispering power as his lover.  That's really far-fetched, but just as far-fetched imo as her have knowledge of who killed her.  AND if she had that chance to post, why didn't she spell it all out about how she knew? 

Finally, Hamlet's father died from having poison poured in his ear.  He wasn't stabbed.  We didn't get information in the flip about how nkirbit died, but the existence of a poison doctor suggests that scum kill with poison, not stabbing.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1711 on: June 19, 2013, 12:04:17 pm »

I am the Earl of Richmond.  He killed Richard the III, who was evil, and took his place as king, becoming Henry VII.  My role is a modified Backup - I take over the power role of the first townie to be killed, which was xeiron, so I'm a lover-cop.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1712 on: June 19, 2013, 12:04:48 pm »

mail-mi claimed a potion-dealing role earlier.

hmm, it would make sense that he is the poisoner... a lot of sense.

Meh, I think it's very possible EHFW is a stabbing scum and mail-mi a poisoning scum and I'm just playing kingmaker here. Sudgy's message to me makes zero sense if there was just one scum team.

But, stabbing sounds like something I CAN'T survive while the potions might have ran out or whatever, so I guess we'll lynch EHFW and give mail-mi the win.

Really sucks being town here.

How about that role claim?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1713 on: June 19, 2013, 12:07:22 pm »

Or maybe someone didn't do their homework about how Hamlet's father died, and got it wrong.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1714 on: June 19, 2013, 12:10:00 pm »

And why would there be a doctor to protect people from a town role? 

We have only mail-mi's word for what his potions do and that there is a 1/3 chance of a boon.  Maybe he's scum and was given this power to balance out the apparent difficulty of getting nightkills through.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1715 on: June 19, 2013, 12:10:35 pm »

Tell me again why sudgy's message makes you think there are two teams?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1716 on: June 19, 2013, 12:13:49 pm »

Tell me again why sudgy's message makes you think there are two teams?
He told me that his team has no chance without my help, after we lynched town? Why would that be if they were the only scum?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1717 on: June 19, 2013, 12:14:35 pm »

Tell me again why sudgy's message makes you think there are two teams?
He told me that his team has no chance without my help, after we lynched town? Why would that be if they were the only scum?

Well it was all but certain that he would be lynched the next day, which he was.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1718 on: June 19, 2013, 12:15:07 pm »

Well, either way, he clearly wasn't the last of his team in that scenario so why reach out to me and confess?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1719 on: June 19, 2013, 12:17:12 pm »

Well, either way, he clearly wasn't the last of his team in that scenario so why reach out to me and confess?

That I don't know.  But if he knew there were two teams, wouldn't he have said so, to try to get the focus off himself?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1720 on: June 19, 2013, 12:18:14 pm »

Well, either way, he clearly wasn't the last of his team in that scenario so why reach out to me and confess?

That I don't know.  But if he knew there were two teams, wouldn't he have said so, to try to get the focus off himself?
It's weird, I know. What's clear is that a townie told us to lynch you asap..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1721 on: June 19, 2013, 12:24:12 pm »

And you told us NOT to kill sudgy.  Town can be convinced they are right and still be wrong.  I mean, how unbalanced would it be if nightkill victims got to tell everyone who did it before they died?  That's way improbable.  This would be a good scum ploy though, as it puts me in a terrible position and makes it very hard to get the real scum (mail-mi). 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1722 on: June 19, 2013, 12:27:24 pm »

Convince me it's more likely mail-mi is scum than you are, or I'm voting you.

Raerae would NEVER forgive me if I didn't listen to her, if that was a scum power, tough are dem breaks..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1723 on: June 19, 2013, 12:29:15 pm »

I don't have enough time right now to do the convincingly thoroughly.  I'll be back this afternoon.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1724 on: June 19, 2013, 12:31:06 pm »

I don't have enough time right now to do the convincingly thoroughly.  I'll be back this afternoon.
Okay, I'll wait. :)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1725 on: June 19, 2013, 01:22:51 pm »

vote: EFHW I trust town.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1726 on: June 19, 2013, 01:31:13 pm »

Just posting to confirm I'm not scum.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1727 on: June 19, 2013, 01:31:27 pm »

I won't hammer until EHFW gets here to plead her case.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1728 on: June 19, 2013, 04:05:00 pm »

Vote Count Act IV.IV:

EFHW (1): mail-mi

Not Voting (2): Eevee, EFHW

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1729 on: June 19, 2013, 04:25:21 pm »

Eevee end the madness! I've told you exactly what my role does! Its been proven by nkirbit, raerae, and you! And raerae, a Town player!, has told u its EFHW! End the madness!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1730 on: June 19, 2013, 04:28:32 pm »

That's so scummy!!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1731 on: June 19, 2013, 04:29:41 pm »

That's so scummy!!
What?!?!? I'm pleading my case, what else am I supposed to do?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1732 on: June 19, 2013, 04:31:42 pm »

Is there any proof of your potion doing nothing but killing?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1733 on: June 19, 2013, 04:44:32 pm »

Is there any proof of your potion doing nothing but killing?
It didnt kill nkirbit.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1734 on: June 19, 2013, 08:21:17 pm »

Needless to say, I was shocked to sign on this morning to find I was being accused by a flipped townie in all caps and huge font of being scum.  It’s taken me awhile, but I’ve put together my arguments about why I am not scum and why I think mail-mi is.  I hope you will consider my points really carefully as you make your decision. 

1.    Why raerae’s post is suspicious.

a.   The method of death is thematically inconsistent.  Hamlet’s father was killed by poison being poured in his ear, not stabbed.  That's not a detail Ash would get wrong.
b.   Why didn’t she spell out how she came to think I was her killer?
c.   Why didn’t she warn us D3 that this would be coming so that we would be more likely to believe her?
d.   What was the relevance of mentioning that mail-mi sent her a potion?  Did that contribute to her death?

2.   Why I’m not scum.

a.   Nothing in my play stands out as scummy.
b.   I was one of the leaders in the sudgy lynch.
c.   Sudgy let slip that his partner was male.
d.   I’d have come up with a fakeclaim that would exonerate me, instead of the kinda lame real claim I had to make instead.

3.   Why mail-mi is scum.  Some of the reasons above are theoretical.  These are all factual:

a.   He hasn’t done any scum-hunting.  He did fasten on you in response to your reading him as scum and peppered the thread with random attacks against you, but never making an actual case.
b.   He spontaneously defended sudgy on a number of occasions, when he didn’t give strong reads otherwise on other people.
c.   His role is quite negative utility if town, and we have only his word that there is a 1/3 chance of giving someone a boon. 
d.   There was a poison doctor – since when are there doctors to protect town from their own power roles?   There is no evidence that scum kills with poison.  In fact, raerae says she was stabbed.
e.   Like Proteus, his flavor name (fakename) is not unambiguously good – Friar Laurence came up with the crazy plan for Juliet to fake her death and failed to get the all important letter to Romeo on time.  He also ran when he could have stayed to protect Juliet and tell Romeo what happened.  All the town flavor characters have been sparkly clean heroes. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1735 on: June 19, 2013, 08:23:22 pm »

Is there any proof of your potion doing nothing but killing?
It didnt kill nkirbit.

I don't think his power is a killing power.  I think it is a supplemental scum power.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1736 on: June 19, 2013, 08:24:21 pm »

Eevee end the madness! I've told you exactly what my role does! Its been proven by nkirbit, raerae, and you! And raerae, a Town player!, has told u its EFHW! End the madness!

"methinks he doth protest too much." (I couldn't resist  :P)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1737 on: June 19, 2013, 11:19:50 pm »


d.   What was the relevance of mentioning that mail-mi sent her a potion?  Did that contribute to her death?
No, or she would have died during the night, not after a post.

Quote
2.   Why I’m not scum.

a.   Nothing in my play stands out as scummy.
So? Remember Jimmmmm from RMM7? He wasn't very scummy there either.

Quote
b.   I was one of the leaders in the sudgy lynch.

Oh, so there's no such thing as bussing now, huh?

Quote
c.   Sudgy let slip that his partner was male.
WIFOM.
Quote
d.   I’d have come up with a fakeclaim that would exonerate me, instead of the kinda lame real claim I had to make instead.
Again, WIFOM. There can be such things as scum backups (that would actually be really cool).

Quote
3.   Why mail-mi is scum.  Some of the reasons above are theoretical.  These are all factual:

a.   He hasn’t done any scum-hunting.  He did fasten on you in response to your reading him as scum and peppered the thread with random attacks against you, but never making an actual case.
Sorry that I'm a student and don't have much time for things like this? And then there was my hawaii trip.

Quote
b.   He spontaneously defended sudgy on a number of occasions, when he didn’t give strong reads otherwise on other people.
Also sorry that I got a read wrong. Like that never happens.

Quote
c.   His role is quite negative utility if town, and we have only his word that there is a 1/3 chance of giving someone a boon. 
1. It is possible for scum to get it.
2. Town didn't have to drink it.

Quote
d.   There was a poison doctor – since when are there doctors to protect town from their own power roles?   There is no evidence that scum kills with poison.  In fact, raerae says she was stabbed.
Since when is there doctors to protect from vigs? Since when is this freakin' RMM??
Quote
e.   Like Proteus, his flavor name (fakename) is not unambiguously good – Friar Laurence came up with the crazy plan for Juliet to fake her death and failed to get the all important letter to Romeo on time.  He also ran when he could have stayed to protect Juliet and tell Romeo what happened.  All the town flavor characters have been sparkly clean heroes.
Um... so?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1738 on: June 20, 2013, 12:31:06 am »

Vote Count Act IV.V:

EFHW (1): mail-mi

Not Voting (2): Eevee, EFHW

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1739 on: June 20, 2013, 02:46:06 am »

If after every tempest come such calms,
May the winds blow till they have waken'd death!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1740 on: June 20, 2013, 11:21:23 am »

mail-mi is so sarcastic. 

Yes there is WIFOM. 

I still maintain that it would be very strange to have a doctor to protect town from their own power role.  And if you were town, with such a dangerous power, why didn't you tell everyone not to drink the potion?  If it works like you said, the chances of hitting scum would have been smaller than hitting town, and there was also the slight chance of giving scum the great boon.  It really hurt town to have nkirbit out of commission that whole day.

The flavor names are relevant.  They reflect alignment.  Your character is flawed.  The other town characters are all idealized.  The scum character we know about is very flawed, since he betrayed Julia and tried to rape Silvia.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1741 on: June 20, 2013, 11:32:03 am »

EHFW is making a compelling case..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1742 on: June 20, 2013, 12:36:53 pm »

I looked up Dogberry.  He is also from Much Ado About Nothing.

from Wikipedia:  In the play, Dogberry is the chief of the citizen-police in Messina.  .... Dogberry and his crew ... are ... given a thematic function, for it is they who (accidentally) uncover the plot of Don John and begin the process of restoration that leads to the play's happy conclusion. In that sense, Dogberry's comic ineptitude is made to serve the sense of a providential force overseeing the fortunate restoration of social and emotional order.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1743 on: June 20, 2013, 01:08:47 pm »

mail-mi is so sarcastic. 

Yes there is WIFOM. 

I still maintain that it would be very strange to have a doctor to protect town from their own power role.  And if you were town, with such a dangerous power, why didn't you tell everyone not to drink the potion?  If it works like you said, the chances of hitting scum would have been smaller than hitting town, and there was also the slight chance of giving scum the great boon.  It really hurt town to have nkirbit out of commission that whole day.

The flavor names are relevant.  They reflect alignment.  Your character is flawed.  The other town characters are all idealized.  The scum character we know about is very flawed, since he betrayed Julia and tried to rape Silvia.
I did. The day I claimed I did.

Eevee, both raerae and I are not going to be happy if you vote me and lose this game for town.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1744 on: June 20, 2013, 01:35:07 pm »

Eevee, both raerae and I are not going to be happy if you vote me and lose this game for town.
Really?  This is why he should believe you are town?  There will be happy and unhappy people no matter how this turns out.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1745 on: June 20, 2013, 01:50:34 pm »

Eevee, both raerae and I are not going to be happy if you vote me and lose this game for town.
Really?  This is why he should believe you are town?  There will be happy and unhappy people no matter how this turns out.
What I'm saying is that a CONFIRMED TOWN whose role name is Town Ghost said that you stabbed her.

P.S. my Dictionary.com app just said that the word of the day was hamlet. Lol.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1746 on: June 20, 2013, 02:35:00 pm »

Yes, I know, believe me.  But she doesn't say why she thinks that or what the source of her information is and there is nothing else to point to me being scum.

And since apparently scum do nightkills by stabbing, that means the poison doctor was there to protect town against you.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1747 on: June 20, 2013, 02:37:03 pm »

Yes, I know, believe me.  But she doesn't say why she thinks that or what the source of her information is and there is nothing else to point to me being scum.

And since apparently scum do nightkills by stabbing, that means the poison doctor was there to protect town against you.
Yep, remember this is RMM??
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1748 on: June 20, 2013, 04:03:20 pm »

Yes, I know, believe me.  But she doesn't say why she thinks that or what the source of her information is and there is nothing else to point to me being scum.

And since apparently scum do nightkills by stabbing, that means the poison doctor was there to protect town against you.
Yep, remember this is RMM??
So, you are saying you have a borderline negative utility role, that you didn't choose to claim it early to warn people, and that there was actually someone in town that had a role of PROTECTING us from you? Hmm-hmm..

EHFW is definitely swaying me about maill-mi's scumminess, but not really seeming any less scummy herself. It's like DS9 all over again, they are both scum!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1749 on: June 20, 2013, 04:10:11 pm »

Yes, I know, believe me.  But she doesn't say why she thinks that or what the source of her information is and there is nothing else to point to me being scum.

And since apparently scum do nightkills by stabbing, that means the poison doctor was there to protect town against you.
Yep, remember this is RMM??
So, you are saying you have a borderline negative utility role, that you didn't choose to claim it early to warn people, and that there was actually someone in town that had a role of PROTECTING us from you? Hmm-hmm..
After D1 did I only know that. I (think) I claimed D2.
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1750 on: June 20, 2013, 04:18:22 pm »

I am not scum.  Is there any question I can answer to persuade you?  You're in a rotten spot, that's for sure.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1751 on: June 20, 2013, 05:38:26 pm »

Vote Count Act IV.VI:

EFHW (1): mail-mi

Not Voting (2): Eevee, EFHW

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1752 on: June 20, 2013, 05:45:30 pm »

vote: mail-mi
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1753 on: June 20, 2013, 05:47:23 pm »

Vote Count Act IV.VII:

EFHW (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): EFHW

Not Voting (1): Eevee

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1754 on: June 20, 2013, 06:35:22 pm »

I am not scum.  Is there any question I can answer to persuade you?  You're in a rotten spot, that's for sure.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1755 on: June 20, 2013, 09:45:03 pm »

Bump
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'And what is it that ye shall hope for? Behold I say unto you that ye shall have hope through the atonement of Christ and the power of his resurrection, to be raised unto life eternal, and this because of your faith in him according to the promise." - Moroni 7:41, the Book of Mormon

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1756 on: June 21, 2013, 01:45:29 am »

Vote Count Act IV.VIII:

EFHW (1): mail-mi
mail-mi (1): EFHW

Not Voting (1): Eevee

A new vote count so you know I'm around.

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1757 on: June 21, 2013, 08:56:54 am »

Your three free days are up in ~14 hours.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1758 on: June 21, 2013, 11:15:41 am »

Then how many bankable days are left?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1759 on: June 21, 2013, 06:45:11 pm »

Then how many bankable days are left?

8 days and 20 hours.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1760 on: June 21, 2013, 09:37:57 pm »

It's midsummer in Finland right now, just about the biggest party of the year as the day is at it's longest, so I won't be rereading today, but I do plan on making a decision this weekend. Sorry for the wait, I don't mean to drag this out but it's an intriguing decision even if I think it's very possible town is in a nowin situation.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1761 on: June 21, 2013, 10:31:14 pm »

We have lots of time.  I'll keep checking in, in case you have questions as you reread.  Thanks for being careful about this.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1762 on: June 21, 2013, 10:38:29 pm »

I was really loving the dispute you two were having, hoping it would get more emotional as reading emotions I think is my definite strenghts.

It suck, because the raerae point against EHFW is so strong, but so is the "town poison doctor" point against mail-mi. Both scum, I tells ya. That's why you can't produce believable town emotion!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1763 on: June 21, 2013, 11:49:56 pm »

I know there is only one scum team and that mail-mi is the sole surviving member, b/c I'm not and you are essentially IC, since if you were scum you would have hammered long ago.  raerae's post is damning and I can't explain it.  The best I can do is present my logic to you and hope you see how unlikely it is that mail-mi is town. 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1764 on: June 22, 2013, 12:13:20 am »

raerae doesn't actually have a "point" against me, though.  Just an accusation, with no mention of its source.  I wish there were some points I could address. 
 
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1765 on: June 22, 2013, 12:19:24 am »

But, stabbing sounds like something I CAN'T survive while the potions might have ran out or whatever.

I think the NK is stabbing and the potions are mail-mi's individual power.  But this isn't actually relevant.  If you pick right (meaning lynch mail-mi, of course) town wins (2 town survive, all threats eliminated), if you don't, town loses (scum is 1/2 of town).  Either way the game is over once you vote.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1766 on: June 22, 2013, 11:08:31 am »

Rereading now, starting with mail-mi.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act II)
« Reply #1767 on: June 22, 2013, 11:11:01 am »

So what conclusions do you draw from that summary?

Still mulling it over, leaning scum though.  Want to hear from mail-mi before I get too serious.

What conclusions do you draw from that summary?
This is very relevant. If he was mafia, he would have had to invent this when he could have stayed back and not said anything either? Otoh, the only real night kill we've had was nkirbit, I wonder if these are related somehow..

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1768 on: June 22, 2013, 11:12:18 am »

Raerae clearly wasn't on sudgy's scum team, as she was so anti-sudgy. Makes me trust her info more.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1769 on: June 22, 2013, 11:14:30 am »

Mail-mi has been continuously pro-sudgy though.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1770 on: June 22, 2013, 11:18:51 am »

Meh mail-mi has been pretty consistent in wanting to lynch townies (myself, TA) and being 95% sure scum (sudgy) is town, so that's not very good..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1771 on: June 22, 2013, 11:19:35 am »

And when faced with the "Eevee or sudgy" dilemma, EHFW said
I'm back - I encourage everyone to go with sudgy.  It's long overdue.
.

Damnit.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1772 on: June 22, 2013, 11:28:39 am »

Vote: EHFW

Yes I'm pretty sure this is right. Well, I'm pretty sure EHFW killed raerae N2 that is.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1773 on: June 22, 2013, 11:32:23 am »

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! (falls over and dies)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1774 on: June 22, 2013, 11:33:17 am »

VOTE: EHFW.  Ha! - she's dead, not me!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1775 on: June 22, 2013, 11:36:56 am »

Damniit I STILL get it wrong, so sorry!

Need to practice:

EFHW

ehfw

EFHW

eeeäfhoooveee

Yes maybe I remember now.


Also sorry I made you work so much for nothing. Still got to hope mail-mi was town though..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1776 on: June 22, 2013, 11:39:42 am »

you won't be sorry long.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1777 on: June 22, 2013, 11:42:57 am »

you won't be sorry long.
Oh I meant I'm sorry I gave you false hope, when in fact despite a pretty respectable effort the facts were so stacked against you, I was pretty much going to vote for you whatever you said.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1778 on: June 22, 2013, 11:43:07 am »

YAYAYAYAYAYAY thank you Eevee we win! By we I mean town!
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I currently imagine mail-mi wearing a dark trenchcoat and a bowler hat, hunched over a bit, toothpick in his mouth, holding a gun in his pocket.  One bead of sweat trickling down his nose.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1779 on: June 22, 2013, 12:44:14 pm »

you won't be sorry long.
Oh I meant I'm sorry I gave you false hope, when in fact despite a pretty respectable effort the facts were so stacked against you, I was pretty much going to vote for you whatever you said.
Yeah.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1780 on: June 22, 2013, 02:14:39 pm »

THREAD LOCKED
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act III)
« Reply #1781 on: June 22, 2013, 06:15:56 pm »

Act IV Final Vote Count:

EFHW (1): mail-mi, Eevee
mail-mi (1): EFHW

Not Voting (0):

With 3 alive, it took 2 to lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1782 on: June 22, 2013, 06:19:52 pm »

Now, with only three players left on the stage, voices were raised and words were heated.  The eerie sound of a fading ghost's whispers haunted them.

As they rounded on EFHW, the stage started to shake and rattle.  The curtains flew in every direction from an unseen wind and fear appeared in eyes stern with determination.

EFHW was adamant in defense, but in the end, was overpowered.

EFHW, acting as Falstaff, the Universal Backup was dead.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1783 on: June 22, 2013, 06:23:09 pm »

But wait, said one, looking closer at the dead soldier.  Something was happening.  The human coil slipped away to reveal her true self!

EFHW was actually Conflict, the Chauffeur Strongman Witch!

Town wins!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1784 on: June 22, 2013, 06:23:32 pm »

Yay!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1785 on: June 22, 2013, 06:23:55 pm »

Final Town PMs:


The Ghost of Hamlet's Father

Welcome raerae, you are Hamlet's Father, the Ghost.

If you are killed at night, and only at night, you will be able to post, but not vote, the following day. You will know that you were night killed, but may not reveal this during the day.

If you are neither lynched that day nor killed the following night, you will learn the identity of your killer. You may post once on the subsequent day, up to a maximum of 250 characters, stating anything you want within the rules of the game. After that post, you will be officially dead.

Primary Win Condition:  You win when all threats to town have been eliminated.



Sebastian, 1-Shot Deathproof Lover Watcher

Welcome Eevee, you are Sebastian, 1-Shot Deathproof Lover Watcher.

You are madly in loved with Proteus, a young gentleman of Verona. He left you teary-eyed when sent away by his father, but you've found a way to follow him.

You follow him so well, in fact, that every night, you will know who targets him.  If only you knew who Proteus was!

You are 1-shot Deathproof.  The first time you would die, you will passively survive.  Depending on who kills you, you may learn your lover's identity.

Primary Win Condition: You win when all threats to town have been eliminated.



Friar Laurence

Welcome mail-mi, you are Laurence, Town Friar.  On your way here, you accidentally ran into An Apothecary, and your bags of draughts got mixed up.  Now you don't what all the bottles in your bag contain.

Each night, you must target a player to whom you will give a draught.  The player you target will choose whether or not to drink the potion--they will not know who sent it to them.  Depending on the contents of the bottle you randomly chose from your bag, the player will die, seem to die, or receive a great benefit.

Primary Win Condition: You win when all threats to town have been eliminated.



Dogberry, Self-Satisfied Night Constable

Welcome nkirbit, you are Dogberry, the Self-Satisfied Night Constable.

Each night, you may target a player to place in jail.  While that player is jailed, he may not take any actions, nor can he be targeted for actions.

But there's a catch!  You may only jail a player who's vote was on you in the final vote count for the previous day.  You really don't like being insulted or derided, after all.

Primary Win Condition: You win when all threats to town have been eliminated.



Ophelia, 2-Shot Commuting Bomb

Welcome Twistedarcher, you are Ophelia, the 2-Shot Commuting Bomb.

Twice at night, you may choose to leave town and wail by a tree next to a river, making you untargetable by any and all night actions.  If you stick around, and are night killed, you will automatically kill the killer.  If you commute, your bomb cannot be set off.

Primary Win Condition: You win when all threats to town have been eliminated.



Hero, Matchmaker and Pen Pal Lover

Welcome xeiron, you are Hero, Matchmaker and Pen Pal Lover.

Each night, you may PM the mods the names of two players.  You will be told if they are in love with each other.

Also, you are madly in love with Claudio, but you're a bit too shy to share.  Instead, you write him sweet nothings when he isn't around, and hope to find some sweet nothings written back to you.  You love him so much, if he were to die, you would commit suicide.

During the day, and only during the day, you may post in your Pen Pal QT here: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/VEBBUMCENQKG.  You may look at the QT at any time, but be sure to only post when the game is in day phase.  Claudio will also have access to the QT at all times, but will only be able to post when the game is in night phase.

As Pen Pals, you are unaware of each others' alignments.

Primary Win Condition: You win when all threats to town have been eliminated.



Claudio, 2-Shot Poison Doctoring Pen Pal Lover

Welcome liopoil, you are Claudio, the 2-Shot Poison Doctoring Pen Pal Lover.

Twice at night, you may target a player. If they are sickly or deathly ill, you will cure them.  Otherwise, you will have no effect.  You will not know if your attempts were successful.

Also, you are madly in love with Hero, but you're a bit too shy to share. Instead, you write her sweet nothings when she isn't around, and hope to find some sweet nothings written back to you. You love her so much, if she were to die, you would commit suicide.

During the night, and only during the night, you may post in your Pen Pal QT here: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/VEBBUMCENQKG.  You may look at the QT at any time, but be sure to only post when the game is in night phase.  Hero will also have access to the QT at all times, but will only be able to post when the game is in day phase.

As Pen Pals, you are unaware of each others' alignments.

Primary Win Condition: You win when all threats to town have been eliminated.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1786 on: June 22, 2013, 06:24:13 pm »

AARRGGHH!!
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1787 on: June 22, 2013, 06:24:44 pm »

Final Scum Team PMs:

The scum team is made up of the Three Witches from Macbeth


Darkness, the Whispering Lover Witch

Welcome, sudgy, you are Darkness, the Whispering Lover Witch. You have taken on the persona of Proteus.

You are lovers with Julia, or maybe Silvia.  You really can’t make up your mind, because you are kind of evil.  If the one you love dies by your hand (hammer vote or night kill), you will also die.  If only you knew which one you really love.

Each night, you may whisper to a fellow player, up to 250 characters. After you've chosen your target, send that player's name and the text you want to whisper to the mods. Do NOT PM directly. Your target will not know who whispered to them. You may say anything you want, within the rules of the game. If you whisper to your lover, she might whisper you back.

You may talk to your fellow Witch around the cauldron here: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/c6da5PBFhXk.
You may submit the factional kill each night.

Primary win condition: You win when Witches control half the town, or nothing can stop that from happening.



Conflict, Chauffeur Strongman Witch

Welcome, EFHW, you are Conflict, the Chauffeur Strongman Witch. You have taken on the persona of Falstaff.

If your vote was on a Witch in the previous day’s final vote count (unless you are the only Witch alive) and you perform the factional kill, protective powers targeting your target cannot stop it from happening.

You may talk to your fellow Witch around the cauldron here: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/c6da5PBFhXk.

Primary Win Condition: You win when Witches control half the town, or nothing can stop that from happening.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1788 on: June 22, 2013, 06:25:38 pm »

RMM6, N1 Recap:

Twistedarcher decided to commute, using 1 shot up.  This was to be a pivotal decision.


nkirbit is unable to jail anyone, as the only ones voting for him at the end of the night are the lynched lovers.


mail-mi decides to give a potion to nkirbit:

A touch on your side wakes you from a fitful slumber.  You find a small brown bottle, unlabeled.  What could it be?  Do you risk it?

You must decide if you will drink the contents of the bottle or not.  You do not know who sent it.  You will learn what it does only if you drink.



Eevee automatically watches sudgy and receives the result "no one."  (I mod-forgot this but informed him shortly after D2 started.)


sudgy sends the following whisper to raerae:

You toss and turn all night, unable to fall into a deep sleep.  The deaths of two comrades weighs heavy on your mind.  Suddenly, you hear a voice, whispering.  You turn and look, but the speaker is gone.  You don't know who it could have been, but the words are seared into your memory...

"I'm whispering to you, as you're my top townread. I'll say I whispered to you, then you say so. Also, if you are Julia or Silvia, please start you're first post with a letter in the first half of the alphabet."



nkirbit decides to drink the potion, which had randomly been rolled.  The potion put nkirbit to sleep, making him unlynchable on D2, but unable to post or vote.


EFHW attempts to kill Twistedarcher, but fails as he has commuted.



RMM6, N2 Recap:


nkirbit is unable to jail anyone, as no one could vote for him on Day 2.


mail-mi decides to give a potion to Eevee:

You are having trouble sleeping, as distraught as you've become given the events of the past two days.  You toss and turn, falling in and out of sleep.  Suddenly, a tap on your shoulder wakes you up completely.  You find a small brown bottle, unlabeled.  What could it be?  Do you risk it?

You must decide if you will drink the contents of the bottle or not.  You do not know who sent it.  If you were to ever learn what it does, it would only be if you drink it.



Eevee automatically watches sudgy and receives the result "no one."


sudgy sends the following whisper to Eevee:

Just when you think nothing else will keep you from sleeping, you hear a whisper in your ear...

"With the TA lynch, me and my partner have almost no hope. The only thing that can help us is if there is a survivor or something that we can bring to our side. You seemed the most like a survivor, so that's why I'm whispering you. If you don't help us, we WILL night kill you (he has a strongman)."

You turn quickly, but can't see who it is, retreating into the night.  But that voice!  It melts your heart, and you know it must have been your true love.  Quickly, before he's out of earshot, say something!

You may whisper anything you'd like, up to 250 characters, to the person who whispered to you.  If you choose to, reply to this PM with your message.



Eevee decides not to drink the potion he received in the night, which had randomly been rolled.  The potion would have doctored Eevee, protecting him from a night kill.


Eevee responds to sudgy with the following whisper:

As you sink into the shadows, having delivered your message to Eevee, you hear his voice trailing after you...

"What do you need me to do? Why would you trust me? It does feel like our paths are shared no matter what.."



EFHW kills raerae, who becomes a Ghost.



RMM6, N3 Recap:


nkirbit is unable to jail anyone, as no one was voting for him at the end of D3.


mail-mi decides to give a potion to raerae:

You have quickly paced back and forth on the stage off to the side of the heavy sleepers, going over your own death many times.  You know you saw the face of your killer, so why can't you recall it now?  But for now, it remains a mystery.

A quiet sound on the floor catches your attention, and you see a small, brown bottle come to a stop at your feet.  As it rolled, you could hear a bit of liquid sloshing about.  You wonder who could have sent it, and what it might contain...



You must decide if you will drink the contents of the bottle or not.  You do not know who sent it.  You will learn what it does only if you drink.



Eevee cannot watch sudgy because he is dead.


raerae decides not to drink the potion she received in the night, which had randomly been rolled.  The potion would have doctored raerae, protecting her from a night kill.


EFHW strongman kills nkirbit.


After day breaks, raerae learns that she was killed on N2 by EFHW, and is allowed one final post on D4 before dying for good.

Finally, as dawn breaks and the sun starts to make you fade away, you see it, the face of your killer.  And you are shocked!

EFHW was the one who stabbed you in the back, draining you of life.




You may post one time, and one time only, in game.  After that, you will die forever.  Your post may say whatever you like (except for what you were previously prohibited from posting), but may not exceed 250 characters (not including spaces).  If you are unsure about what you may say, you should PM me first.

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1790 on: June 22, 2013, 06:29:08 pm »

Great game, everyone!  This went so well, and much better than we expected.  Thanks everyone for playing!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1791 on: June 22, 2013, 06:30:21 pm »

Oh, interesting that Sudgy would have only died from hammering Eevee.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1792 on: June 22, 2013, 06:32:19 pm »

Quote
Each night, you may whisper to a fellow player, up to 250 characters. After you've chosen your target, send that player's name and the text you want to whisper to the mods. Do NOT PM directly. Your target will not know who whispered to them. You may say anything you want, within the rules of the game. If you whisper to your lover, she might whisper you back.//quote]

How did Eevee know the message was from sudgy?  And sudgy, your message wasn't going to work if he didn't know who it was from.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1793 on: June 22, 2013, 06:32:40 pm »

or accidentally NKing him.

Oh man, I thought we were screwed after you lynched Xeiron D1. Luckily, town got super-lucky with the NKs.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1794 on: June 22, 2013, 06:33:35 pm »

eevee knew because sudgy claimed whisperer

so my doctor only protected from mail-mi's potions if they went badly?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1795 on: June 22, 2013, 06:34:20 pm »

Oh, interesting that Sudgy would have only died from hammering Eevee.

Or NKing, but me and EFHW decided that he would always NK.

Also, if you didn't read the Mafia QT: I thought it was blatantly obvious that one of TA or me was scum (I even posted it in thread).  I was so sure, I decided to do this big plan: slip in some way, hinting mail-mi as my partner.  I sent that PM to Eevee since I was sure I would be lynched anyway.  Things probably would've gone right, too, if raerae wasn't able to claim, or Eevee had no bulletproof...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1796 on: June 22, 2013, 06:34:27 pm »

Quote
Each night, you may whisper to a fellow player, up to 250 characters. After you've chosen your target, send that player's name and the text you want to whisper to the mods. Do NOT PM directly. Your target will not know who whispered to them. You may say anything you want, within the rules of the game. If you whisper to your lover, she might whisper you back.

How did Eevee know the message was from sudgy?  And sudgy, your message wasn't going to work if he didn't know who it was from.

He didn't "know".  The PMs I used are quoted there.  He knew it was his lover, but not who his lover was.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1797 on: June 22, 2013, 06:36:33 pm »

Also, I didn't realize the person getting my whisper couldn't see and that my lover could whisper back.

Also, why was Eevee Sebastian instead of Julia or Silvia?
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1798 on: June 22, 2013, 06:37:13 pm »

Woohoo!

I actually vote EFHW for MVP, despite losing.  I'm fairly convinced that had raerae not been able to find out EFHW through her role, she would never have been found out as scum.  She played an outstanding game.

Out of town, I'd pick raerae.  She was on the right side in the Sudgy vs TA fight, and helped push through Sudgy despite not being able to vote.

Turns out I was very, very wrong in my accusation of Eevee and Raerae.  Whoops!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1799 on: June 22, 2013, 06:37:29 pm »

eevee knew because sudgy claimed whisperer

so my doctor only protected from mail-mi's potions if they went badly?

Oh right, potions!

It is in the Mod QT, but mail-mi started with 10.

5x doctor potions
2x sleeping potions (nkirbit got one)
2x Hated potions
1x Death potion

So 50% doc, 10% Vig on night 1.  I rolled 1d10 to get a random potion.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1800 on: June 22, 2013, 06:38:16 pm »

Also, I didn't realize the person getting my whisper couldn't see and that my lover could whisper back.

Also, why was Eevee Sebastian instead of Julia or Silvia?

Go read the play!  :)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act I)
« Reply #1801 on: June 22, 2013, 06:39:22 pm »

scum to town:

EFHW
sudgy
nkirbit
raerae
mail-mi
eevee
xeiron
twistedarcher
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I nailed it D1! :). I didn't think they were actually a team though, just thought they were scummy.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1802 on: June 22, 2013, 06:40:05 pm »

ahh, that balance of potions makes sense. So, which potions did I protect from?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1803 on: June 22, 2013, 06:42:04 pm »

ahh, that balance of potions makes sense. So, which potions did I protect from?

Only the Vig, I think.  I remember we debated having it stop all of them, but I think that would have been too negative utility.

Not the strongest role ever...the pen pal part was cooler.  In the full size version, both you and X were more useful...
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1804 on: June 22, 2013, 06:43:48 pm »

I liked the fancy communication method we had :)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1805 on: June 22, 2013, 06:46:53 pm »

This was a really fun game. Thanks to the mods!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1806 on: June 22, 2013, 06:47:59 pm »

Thanks for running this Ash!  It was lots of fun!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1807 on: June 22, 2013, 06:55:48 pm »

I think scum's biggest mistake was having EFHW kill Raerae, rather than Sudgy killing Raerae. If Sudgy does the kill, I think scum wins.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1808 on: June 22, 2013, 06:59:36 pm »

So even though Eevee was a "Lover Watcher", that only meant that he would always auto-watch sudgy?  He wasn't an actual lover?  Or if he was, did his 1-shot deathproof protect him when sudgy died?

(I didn't actually spectate this game, just reading that end game stuff.  Interesting roles!)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1809 on: June 22, 2013, 07:00:38 pm »

So even though Eevee was a "Lover Watcher", that only meant that he would always auto-watch sudgy?  He wasn't an actual lover?  Or if he was, did his 1-shot deathproof protect him when sudgy died?

(I didn't actually spectate this game, just reading that end game stuff.  Interesting roles!)

He auto-watched Sudgy, and he was his lover, but his 1-shot deathproof protected from Sudgy's lynch.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1810 on: June 22, 2013, 07:02:37 pm »

So even though Eevee was a "Lover Watcher", that only meant that he would always auto-watch sudgy?  He wasn't an actual lover?  Or if he was, did his 1-shot deathproof protect him when sudgy died?

(I didn't actually spectate this game, just reading that end game stuff.  Interesting roles!)

He auto-watched Sudgy, and he was his lover, but his 1-shot deathproof protected from Sudgy's lynch.

This.

Although, had sudgy hammered or NKed Eevee, they both would have died, like this:

Sudgy kills Eevee, Eevee faints (1-shot Deathproof)
Sudgy sees Eevee die, suicides
Eevee wakes up, sees lover died, suicides
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1811 on: June 22, 2013, 07:05:31 pm »

I think scum's biggest mistake was having EFHW kill Raerae, rather than Sudgy killing Raerae. If Sudgy does the kill, I think scum wins.

We thought raerae was one of my lovers (we thought both characters were in the game, and we didn't want to risk killing either), so I didn't want to NK them.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1812 on: June 22, 2013, 07:17:04 pm »

I think scum's biggest mistake was having EFHW kill Raerae, rather than Sudgy killing Raerae. If Sudgy does the kill, I think scum wins.

We thought raerae was one of my lovers (we thought both characters were in the game, and we didn't want to risk killing either), so I didn't want to NK them.
Yeah her misreading your instructions really threw us off there.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1813 on: June 22, 2013, 07:18:00 pm »

I think scum's biggest mistake was having EFHW kill Raerae, rather than Sudgy killing Raerae. If Sudgy does the kill, I think scum wins.

We thought raerae was one of my lovers (we thought both characters were in the game, and we didn't want to risk killing either), so I didn't want to NK them.
Yeah her misreading your instructions really threw us off there.
But you're right in general, the scummiest person should do the kill in case they are caught.  I didn't think of that at the time.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1814 on: June 22, 2013, 07:18:42 pm »

Quote
Each night, you may whisper to a fellow player, up to 250 characters. After you've chosen your target, send that player's name and the text you want to whisper to the mods. Do NOT PM directly. Your target will not know who whispered to them. You may say anything you want, within the rules of the game. If you whisper to your lover, she might whisper you back.

How did Eevee know the message was from sudgy?  And sudgy, your message wasn't going to work if he didn't know who it was from.

He didn't "know".  The PMs I used are quoted there.  He knew it was his lover, but not who his lover was.
Yeah, I realized after I posted Eevee knew it was sudgy b/c sudgy had claimed whisperer!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1815 on: June 22, 2013, 07:32:45 pm »

nice that town won a game :)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1816 on: June 22, 2013, 07:35:11 pm »

I think scum's biggest mistake was having EFHW kill Raerae, rather than Sudgy killing Raerae. If Sudgy does the kill, I think scum wins.

We thought raerae was one of my lovers (we thought both characters were in the game, and we didn't want to risk killing either), so I didn't want to NK them.

Am I reading it right that you were told you were a lover, but neither of your potential partners were even in the game?
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ashersky

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1817 on: June 22, 2013, 07:43:30 pm »

I think scum's biggest mistake was having EFHW kill Raerae, rather than Sudgy killing Raerae. If Sudgy does the kill, I think scum wins.

We thought raerae was one of my lovers (we thought both characters were in the game, and we didn't want to risk killing either), so I didn't want to NK them.

Am I reading it right that you were told you were a lover, but neither of your potential partners were even in the game?

Eevee was Julia.  Sebastian is a disguise she used in the play.  It's a Two Gentlemen of Verona thing.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1818 on: June 22, 2013, 07:45:05 pm »

Ash, are you planning on using the full setup at some point? Any chance you could reveal which roles you took out of the game?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1819 on: June 22, 2013, 07:46:49 pm »

YAYAYAYAYAYAYAY! My first town win! Also my first endgame as town. In my only win as scum, I was endgamed.

Theory: if my faction wants to live, keep me alive!

Good Arches game's starting now.

Sign up for my game!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Act IV)
« Reply #1820 on: June 22, 2013, 07:49:18 pm »

I think scum's biggest mistake was having EFHW kill Raerae, rather than Sudgy killing Raerae. If Sudgy does the kill, I think scum wins.

We thought raerae was one of my lovers (we thought both characters were in the game, and we didn't want to risk killing either), so I didn't want to NK them.

Am I reading it right that you were told you were a lover, but neither of your potential partners were even in the game?

Eevee was Julia.  Sebastian is a disguise she used in the play.  It's a Two Gentlemen of Verona thing.

Duh.  Neat. :)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1821 on: June 22, 2013, 07:57:12 pm »

Ash, are you planning on using the full setup at some point? Any chance you could reveal which roles you took out of the game?

I don't know if it would work semi-open, which it would be since 9 roles are known.

Yuma and I are using at least one cut role in our Modern Community game... ;)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1822 on: June 22, 2013, 08:01:45 pm »

Ash, are you planning on using the full setup at some point? Any chance you could reveal which roles you took out of the game?

I don't know if it would work semi-open, which it would be since 9 roles are known.

Yuma and I are using at least one cut role in our Modern Community game... ;)

Modern Community game?
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1823 on: June 22, 2013, 08:06:00 pm »

Ash, are you planning on using the full setup at some point? Any chance you could reveal which roles you took out of the game?

I don't know if it would work semi-open, which it would be since 9 roles are known.

Yuma and I are using at least one cut role in our Modern Community game... ;)

Modern Community game?

Big normal game, maybe seven down in the queue.

Combines the Modern Family and Community TV universes.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1824 on: June 22, 2013, 08:13:19 pm »

I am really excited that the ghost power ended up being used.

Like I said in one of the QTs... this game was decided by raerae not needing to claim that she was unable to vote yesterday. If it came to that point I think she might have been lynched, or at least her credibility would have completely sunk perhaps enough to make her reveal not 100% accurate. Or mafia might have gotten wind of what was going on and NKed her again.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1825 on: June 22, 2013, 08:31:04 pm »

Wow, awesome game ashersky. I'm sad that I didn't get to play it and that it didn't get ran in full. We should run more 9 player RMM games.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1826 on: June 22, 2013, 08:37:39 pm »

Also, Eevee's reply COMPLETELY threw me off.  So much so, that I thought he was saying he was a survivor.  That's why I was saying weird things...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1827 on: June 22, 2013, 08:55:28 pm »

Also, Eevee's reply COMPLETELY threw me off.  So much so, that I thought he was saying he was a survivor.  That's why I was saying weird things...
What you could've said was "mail-mi and I..." And say "Don't post this in thread". That would sort of connect you too, but it could've 'oh, that's staged too much' and auto Town mail-mi, which is what you didn't want.

But I like Mailman. It's one of the coolest roles IMO. But good job to both sides, it could've gone either way which shows how well this was designed.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1828 on: June 22, 2013, 09:04:02 pm »

Secret History of RMM6 Roles:

Town Ghost:  This was 100% yuma.  Broken down to its essence, it's just a 1-shot cop.  But man, it is much harder to pull off, as you need to pull the NK once, but not get lynched or NKed again.  Raerae did a great job with it, and was the best town performance of the game.  The death flip coming shortly after the final post really strengthens the role, since you get mod-confirmed as town right away.

1-Shot Deathproof Lover Watcher:  This odd role was me.  I wanted to use lovers in an interesting way in the game, but thought too many same-faction pairs would artificially speed the game up too much.  (This is partly why we ended up with Pen Pal Lovers, too.)  I gave the Town-half 1-shot Deathproof and the Scum-half some conditionals for how he would die.  In the end, I think the lovers portion was balanced.  The Watcher bit of this role would have been more helpful in the bigger version, as generally in this game no one was targeting scum.

Friar Laurence:  I wanted to use potions at some point in a game, but hadn't found a way to do it.  I generally don't like the delayed kill of the scum poisoner, though.  I originally started out with the Apothecary in mind, but needed another town role, so here we go.  I am really happy the sleeping potion got used!

Self-Satisfied Night Constable:  This is mostly yuma.  One theme we had built into the big game was a reliance on others, mostly through voting patterns.  A JK is strong, but he could only jail the people who are voting him at the end of the day.  Nkirbit got very unlucky that the only people voting him EVER were the D1 deaths.  So he never jailed anyone.

2-Shot Commuting Bomb:  I wanted a decision role, and this is what I came up with.  This was the last role I made, and it was basically a throw-in to get to 13.  I like that you have two completely opposite roles and you have to choose each night.  In this game, TA commuted when he would have been the N1 kill.  Was that the right call?  It changed the way the game went, for sure.

Matchmaker/Pen-Pal Lover:  So, in the bigger game, this made more sense.  I saw it as a weak cop that could confirm or refute lover claims.  This was originally paired with a different role that got cut.

Poison Doc/Pen-Pal Lover: A doc, but for one specific kill.  This worked better in the big game, too.  This was also paired up with a different role in the big game that got cut.  Yuma created the Pen Pal idea.

Scum: the team was originally three, for all three witches.  When I had to cut roles, I needed to get scum down to 2 total, so I cut a scum role that had a matching town role, to get rid of two quickly.  I think the team ended up a bit weak, but EHFW especially played well.

Whispering Lover Witch: I based this one off a role I had in RMM3.  Shraeye continues to believe scum whisperer is lame, but I think it created all the havoc I wanted.  It was more flavorful than useful, maybe, but it was fun to watch.

Chauffeur Strongman Witch:  Chauffeur is another yuma invention, and it's awesome.  It's risky, but with a big payoff.  In the bigger game, this would work better, since it would have been easier to plant your vote on a partner.  I added the Strongman modifier to give extra incentive to bus.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1829 on: June 22, 2013, 09:16:05 pm »

I really like those roles. Just one thing: why should the commuter-bomb ever commute? It seems bomb will always be better.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1830 on: June 22, 2013, 09:17:38 pm »

I really like those roles. Just one thing: why should the commuter-bomb ever commute? It seems bomb will always be better.

Made more sense in a bigger/longer game.  Plus, being the NK later in the game could be more helpful than early.  I'm sure there are edge cases.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1831 on: June 22, 2013, 09:21:59 pm »

I really enjoyed all the Shakespeare quotations.  It's amazing how many apply so well to mafia.  I found this one in Two Gentlemen of Verona (while researching):

PROTEUS: The sheep for fodder follow the shepherd; the
   shepherd for food follows not the sheep: thou for
   wages followest thy master; thy master for wages
   follows not thee: therefore thou art a sheep.

SPEED: Such another proof will make me cry 'baa.'
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1832 on: June 22, 2013, 09:33:20 pm »

I really like those roles. Just one thing: why should the commuter-bomb ever commute? It seems bomb will always be better.

It's more fun to play mafia than to not play mafia, as well.  I think it's reasonable to expect players to make decisions that are fun rather than ones that are perfectly suited towards a win.. part of the reason why I chose to drink the potion, too.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1833 on: June 22, 2013, 09:37:29 pm »

I kept trying to glean clues from the quotations, but gave up after awhile.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1834 on: June 22, 2013, 09:42:37 pm »

Oh, a win! Doesnt feel particularly deserved, but I'll take it. :) Thanks mods for a close game!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1835 on: June 22, 2013, 09:43:02 pm »

I'm not sure there was anything other than the post announcing I was "seemingly dead"

Did you know I was going to be alive for D3, EFHW, or were you surprised when I woke up?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1836 on: June 22, 2013, 10:07:22 pm »

Oooooo I was so sure sudgy was town because I was made his watcher. Whats the point of that if he is scum? I guess to weaken my role (i could have seen mail-mi target him and bad things would have happened).

I was absolutely positive it was a clever way for me to look out for my lover and it makes all the sense in the world with my deathproof. I consider myself mislead by the mods!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1837 on: June 22, 2013, 10:08:55 pm »

Oooooo I was so sure sudgy was town because I was made his watcher. Whats the point of that if he is scum? I guess to weaken my role (i could have seen mail-mi target him and bad things would have happened).

I was absolutely positive it was a clever way for me to look out for my lover and it makes all the sense in the world with my deathproof. I consider myself mislead by the mods!

Hehe. You owe me an apology! ;)
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1838 on: June 22, 2013, 10:10:04 pm »

Oooooo I was so sure sudgy was town because I was made his watcher. Whats the point of that if he is scum? I guess to weaken my role (i could have seen mail-mi target him and bad things would have happened).

I was absolutely positive it was a clever way for me to look out for my lover and it makes all the sense in the world with my deathproof. I consider myself mislead by the mods!

We never said he was town, nor gave you reason to believe that.  The Deathproof was a big hint that he was scum, I thought.

There were plenty of roles in the game that could have targeted sudgy, too.  Tracker was strictly better and too strong, anyway.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1839 on: June 22, 2013, 10:11:01 pm »

I'm not sure there was anything other than the post announcing I was "seemingly dead"

Did you know I was going to be alive for D3, EFHW, or were you surprised when I woke up?

None of the direct quotes was meaningful to the game.

Stuff I wrote was important.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1840 on: June 22, 2013, 10:18:26 pm »

Oooooo I was so sure sudgy was town because I was made his watcher. Whats the point of that if he is scum? I guess to weaken my role (i could have seen mail-mi target him and bad things would have happened).

I was absolutely positive it was a clever way for me to look out for my lover and it makes all the sense in the world with my deathproof. I consider myself mislead by the mods!

Hehe. You owe me an apology! ;)
I do I do I do!

So sorry man, so sorry. I was wrong. Glad we prevailed in the end, although the credit doesnt go to me. In fact, considering i won the game for town in lylo, my overall performance was laughably terrible, all because of one stubborn setup-read that was just completely wrong.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1841 on: June 22, 2013, 10:20:56 pm »

Oooooo I was so sure sudgy was town because I was made his watcher. Whats the point of that if he is scum? I guess to weaken my role (i could have seen mail-mi target him and bad things would have happened).

I was absolutely positive it was a clever way for me to look out for my lover and it makes all the sense in the world with my deathproof. I consider myself mislead by the mods!

We never said he was town, nor gave you reason to believe that.  The Deathproof was a big hint that he was scum, I thought.

There were plenty of roles in the game that could have targeted sudgy, too.  Tracker was strictly better and too strong, anyway.
I thought being his watcher meant for sure that he was supposed to draw in the nk so i could catch his killer. I think it would have been an awesome set of roles that could play in numerous interesting ways. I was sooo convinced that must be the case too..
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1842 on: June 22, 2013, 10:24:45 pm »

I'm not sure there was anything other than the post announcing I was "seemingly dead"

Did you know I was going to be alive for D3, EFHW, or were you surprised when I woke up?
I was pretty sure you would be back.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1843 on: June 22, 2013, 10:33:05 pm »

Oooooo I was so sure sudgy was town because I was made his watcher. Whats the point of that if he is scum? I guess to weaken my role (i could have seen mail-mi target him and bad things would have happened).

I was absolutely positive it was a clever way for me to look out for my lover and it makes all the sense in the world with my deathproof. I consider myself mislead by the mods!

We never said he was town, nor gave you reason to believe that.  The Deathproof was a big hint that he was scum, I thought.

There were plenty of roles in the game that could have targeted sudgy, too.  Tracker was strictly better and too strong, anyway.
I thought being his watcher meant for sure that he was supposed to draw in the nk so i could catch his killer. I think it would have been an awesome set of roles that could play in numerous interesting ways. I was sooo convinced that must be the case too..

Yeah Eevee's interpretation makes a lot of sense, actually. And Raerae's point about the game being too quick if there's 2 set of lovers would be moot to Eevee, as he knows he has deathproof. Funny how an Eevee lynch would lead to Eevee dying twice if Sudgy hammered, though!

And Eevee, don't worry about it! I think I would have done the completely same thing in your shoes.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1844 on: June 23, 2013, 01:56:48 am »

All ya'll: Listen. To. Me.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1845 on: June 23, 2013, 03:41:13 am »

All in all, great game to watch and mod.  You all had varying levels of awesomeness.  :)

I hope I can count you all in for future games.

LotR2 is going to be epic, I hope.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1846 on: June 23, 2013, 09:38:49 am »

All ya'll: Listen. To. Me.

Have we ever read the other one wrong as town?  I've always had a townread on you when you're town (except RMM7), and you're always attacking me when I'm scum...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1847 on: June 23, 2013, 09:44:45 am »

Ash, are you planning on using the full setup at some point? Any chance you could reveal which roles you took out of the game?

I don't know if it would work semi-open, which it would be since 9 roles are known.

Yuma and I are using at least one cut role in our Modern Community game... ;)

Modern Community game?

Big normal game, maybe seven down in the queue.

Combines the Modern Family and Community TV universes.

This game is going to be crazy amazing. When it opens, all of you should remember this game and sign up because it will be just as good! We are only starting on it, and it already looks super fun.
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1848 on: June 23, 2013, 03:41:22 pm »

in!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1849 on: June 23, 2013, 10:13:15 pm »

So was Othello relevant in some mysterious way?
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1850 on: June 23, 2013, 10:14:09 pm »

I think after Harry Potter I'll do an opera themed game.  The plots are so arcane, they lend themselves well to mafia, like Shakespeare did.
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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1851 on: June 23, 2013, 10:21:32 pm »

A+ scumming, EFHW.  Not confident I would have pegged you had that info not been mod-confirmed. 
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ashersky

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1852 on: June 23, 2013, 10:23:39 pm »

So was Othello relevant in some mysterious way?

The Othello characters were cut from the 13-player version.  And they were awesome. :(

A+ scumming, EFHW.  Not confident I would have pegged you had that info not been mod-confirmed. 

Agreed.  I've settled on EFHW as MVP of this game.  Only the second time the MVP comes from the losing team.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

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raerae

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1853 on: June 23, 2013, 10:28:01 pm »

So was Othello relevant in some mysterious way?

The Othello characters were cut from the 13-player version.  And they were awesome. :(

A+ scumming, EFHW.  Not confident I would have pegged you had that info not been mod-confirmed. 

Agreed.  I've settled on EFHW as MVP of this game.  Only the second time the MVP comes from the losing team.

Was one Desdemona??
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shraeye

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1854 on: June 23, 2013, 10:29:03 pm »

I hope so!
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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1855 on: June 23, 2013, 11:00:47 pm »

Wow, thanks Ashersky  :)  Now that I'm over the shock of raerae's revelation, this was a very fun game with great flavor.  And it reinforced the lesson "expect the unexpected"! 
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EFHW

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1856 on: June 23, 2013, 11:02:58 pm »

A+ scumming, EFHW.  Not confident I would have pegged you had that info not been mod-confirmed.

thx  :)  Next time I'll get sudgy to stab you!
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eHalcyon

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1857 on: June 24, 2013, 12:14:37 am »

Town Ghost seems more powerful than 1-shot cop, in that you are guaranteed a successful investigation (that is, successfully finding scum) if you meet the other requirements.

2-shot commuting bomb hurts scum a lot here as well, just for the bomb part.  Is there anything like a Vig here?  The potion guy could kill, but only like 33% chance or something?  But I guess that is potentially mitigated by having the bomb lynched.

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ashersky

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Re: RMM6 Redux - Shakespeare Mafia (Town wins!)
« Reply #1858 on: June 24, 2013, 12:23:57 am »

Town Ghost seems more powerful than 1-shot cop, in that you are guaranteed a successful investigation (that is, successfully finding scum) if you meet the other requirements.

2-shot commuting bomb hurts scum a lot here as well, just for the bomb part.  Is there anything like a Vig here?  The potion guy could kill, but only like 33% chance or something?  But I guess that is potentially mitigated by having the bomb lynched.

Agree that the Ghost is super strong, albeit 1-shot.  Still, draw the NK once but not twice plus don't get lynched AND phrase your final post in a way that is believed were enough restrictions, we thought.

There were other roles that were cut when we shrunk the game that offset the bomb's potential to ruin scum's day.  And he didn't explode if lynched, so that helped.
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