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[Haddock]

I make it:

Ampharos (1): RR
EgorK (4): Teproc, Haddock, yuma, iguana
faust (1): egor
Haddock (1): WW
RR (1): e
WW (3): Ampharos, faust, hydrad

While I was reading for that, I noticed Teproc has been moving his vote a lot in the last few pages, only to put it back where it was not all that long ago.
Not that that's a problem.  I actually have no idea what to make of it, maybe he's genuine in trying to find a wagon that will form.

I like the egor wagon.  4 people on it, all of whom I think are on the town side of null.

[EgorK]

I like the egor wagon.  4 people on it, all of whom I think are on the town side of null.

I don't like it. And I am town. So it is bad. And any reasoning behind it is bad. Should I vote everything on the wagon? And if not, why are people voting for me even if they disagree? Argue with me, prove me wrong, I am more then sensible to reason. But this "ah, I disagree, so he is scummy, but I won't argue with him" is what makes this game so frustrating

[Haddock]

Fwiw, e has gone back to null for me (from being one of my strongest scumreads! ).
It's his case on RR that does it.  If scum are looking for a mislynch to push, pushing RR is not the way to go.

I like the egor wagon.  4 people on it, all of whom I think are on the town side of null.

I don't like it. And I am town. So it is bad. And any reasoning behind it is bad. Should I vote everything on the wagon? And if not, why are people voting for me even if they disagree? Argue with me, prove me wrong, I am more then sensible to reason. But this "ah, I disagree, so he is scummy, but I won't argue with him" is what makes this game so frustrating

Dude.  People were finding you scummy long before we disagreed with you about faust.

[Teproc]

I like the egor wagon.  4 people on it, all of whom I think are on the town side of null.

I don't like it. And I am town. So it is bad. And any reasoning behind it is bad. Should I vote everything on the wagon? And if not, why are people voting for me even if they disagree? Argue with me, prove me wrong, I am more then sensible to reason. But this "ah, I disagree, so he is scummy, but I won't argue with him" is what makes this game so frustrating

You think this game hasn't had enough arguing ?

We've talked, and talked, and talked about what makes faust's claim believabe. Either it was planned, and why would scum!faust plan a claim on day 2 ? To lynch WW ? Sure he has plausible deniability if it goes wrong, but still seems weird. And if it wasn't planned, it's strange to claim a guilty result on someone. Claiming PR to live, sure, claiming a guilty result is not what scum usually does. Also, it's very clear to me that his claim was planned, everything fits together very well, and as I said, I don't see the scum!narrative for scum!faust planning to claim on day 2.

Also, I'm voting for you mostly because PoE, there's not much you can argue about that unfortunately.

[EgorK]

Dude.  People were finding you scummy long before we disagreed with you about faust.

Because of?

[EgorK]

Teproc, do you say that you find everyone else towny?

[Teproc]

Teproc, do you say that you find everyone else towny?

More or less. I did a PoE post recently, where my lynchpool got reduced to {Hydrad, 2.71828..., EgorK, Haddock}

[Haddock]

Actually:

vote: Hydrad for today. 
I'm still on the Egor wagon in spirit, but I don't like that Hydrad has lurked so much, had really weak contributions and gotten away with it.
I will reread him at some point, but voting for him until I've done so.

[Witherweaver]

Had not yet time to reread, but:

- mass claim not seems like a good option. Benefit of probably get better feel if both faust and WW telling truth is not enough to out town PRs

- after some though I think I believe WW claim a bit more.

So Vote: faust

I can ask you the question noone so far could answer: Why does scum!me claim what I did in this scenario? It's an awful claim to make for scum.

To buy time, out possible PR or drive mislynch

Any way, the claim gets me lynched by D3 the latest... how is that worth it?

I have trouble believing this since you're trying to lynch me.  Tomorrow are you going to submit to getting lynched?  I somehow doubt it.

[Witherweaver]

Does anyone actually not believe I targeted Hydrad?  Because that's absurd.

Yes, I don't believe that.

Why would you not believe it?

Because I have an investigative result that says otherwise.

But ... why would I breadcrumb Hydrad immediately into Day 2?  You honestly think I predicted this situation?

Others have said this. It is not a clear breadcrumb. You may have had other reasons to post it. Or maybe you decided to stick to this story early.

By the way, why did you claim anyway? You were reluctant at first and your claim does not give us a whole lot. You could simply have said "I did not target silver"

I claimed because your claim did not look like a fake one.  It seemed best to have all the information out there. 

[gkrieg13]

Vote Count 2.7:

WW (3): Ampharos, faust, hydrad
egork (4): Haddock, yuma, iguanaiguana, Teproc
Ampharos (1): RR
faust (1): EgorK
RoadRunner (1): e
Haddock (1): WW

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day Two ends at 3:00 a.m. on December 19.

[yuma]

Actually:

vote: Hydrad for today. 
I'm still on the Egor wagon in spirit, but I don't like that Hydrad has lurked so much, had really weak contributions and gotten away with it.
I will reread him at some point, but voting for him until I've done so.

^missed this vote

[2.71828.....]

Yeah, RR isn't happening.

vote: haddock

[iguanaiguana]

I don't understand the case on Haddock.

[2.71828.....]

I have not really picked up on the whole case against egork. Maybe I am just not reading him carefully enough, but I mostly just disagree with him

[2.71828.....]

I don't understand the case on Haddock.

I can't do a hood recap from my phone, but there are little things here and there. Like this last vote on hydrad. A pressure vote to get him to post more. Am easy vote, one that doesn't take too much effort and you won't really get in trouble for. A nice scum vote

[Roadrunner7671]

Yeah, RR isn't happening.

vote: haddock

Yay!

[Haddock]

I don't understand the case on Haddock.

I can't do a hood recap from my phone, but there are little things here and there.

Like this last vote on hydrad. A pressure vote to get him to post more. Am easy vote, one that doesn't take too much effort and you won't really get in trouble for. A nice scum vote

I'd love to hear your whole case when you get a chance.

But calling my Hydrad vote scummy is bullshit.  I'm essentially voting Egor, I've said this.  Voting Hydrad is a reminder I'm setting myself that I need to reread him.

[Teproc]

That's not how voting works. If you want us to accept you as voting EgorK, vote EgorK. muddying accountability for your votes is compeltely anti-town, and it's the second time in this game you've done it.

[Haddock]

That's not how voting works. If you want us to accept you as voting EgorK, vote EgorK. muddying accountability for your votes is compeltely anti-town, and it's the second time in this game you've done it.

Get used to it.  You don't dictate how people behave with their votes.  I've seen other people do this with their votes and it's a useful tool.

Vote accountability only becomes a thing when a lynch has happened.  If Egor gets lynched and I haven't moved back to him, I promise you right now I will not be trying to get any kind of credit for it.

[Teproc]

That's not how voting works. If you want us to accept you as voting EgorK, vote EgorK. muddying accountability for your votes is compeltely anti-town, and it's the second time in this game you've done it.

Get used to it.  You don't dictate how people behave with their votes.  I've seen other people do this with their votes and it's a useful tool.

Vote accountability only becomes a thing when a lynch has happened.  If Egor gets lynched and I haven't moved back to him, I promise you right now I will not be trying to get any kind of credit for it.

I get to say I think it's anti-town. And votes count all the time. I remember a game (DWII I believe) where scum was found largely on the basis of a wagon that got to L-1 on one of them on D1 and how their votes ligned up. Your vote should always be on whoever you want to lynch. Setting votes as a remainder is not a thing, and I'm very curious who else has done it so I can berate them as well.

[yuma]

That's not how voting works. If you want us to accept you as voting EgorK, vote EgorK. muddying accountability for your votes is compeltely anti-town, and it's the second time in this game you've done it.

Get used to it.  You don't dictate how people behave with their votes.  I've seen other people do this with their votes and it's a useful tool.

Vote accountability only becomes a thing when a lynch has happened.  If Egor gets lynched and I haven't moved back to him, I promise you right now I will not be trying to get any kind of credit for it.

vote: haddock

we can't control your vote. but we can vote for you. so there!

[Haddock]

I get to say I think it's anti-town...
Setting votes as a remainder is not a thing, and I'm very curious who else has done it so I can berate them as well.

OK, so put it another way.  I want pressure to be on both of them.  Noone is currently voting Hydrad, it may as well be me. 

I was trying to get across to e that a pressure vote on Hydrad is not scummy.  One of the ways in which it is not scummy is because I've been very clear that I want to be on the Egor wagon.

I could probably agree that the reminder thing was a bit stupid, and a dumb thing to say.  I wasn't saying that anyone had done THAT.  But I've definitely seen people say they want to vote someone but temporarily vote elsewhere to pressure lurkers.  Yuma did it this game I seem to remember.


I reiterate; this is only anti-town behaviour if I'm doing it intentionally to muddy the waters.  I'm not.  I've been very very clear.

[Haddock]

Vote for me all you like, I'm not moving my vote back right now.  That's begging for some scum to pipe up with "he got called out and changed behaviour!  Scum!".

Let's not mislynch me today.

[yuma]

I could probably agree that the reminder thing was a bit stupid, and a dumb thing to say.  I wasn't saying that anyone had done THAT.  But I've definitely seen people say they want to vote someone but temporarily vote elsewhere to pressure lurkers.  Yuma did it this game I seem to remember.

No. I was stating that I wanted faust to claim first, which other people were voting him to try and get him to do. I stated that I wanted to lynch scum and vote for a scum read.

So in fact I was doing the complete opposite of you! Voting for my read and using my voice to pressure. That is townie.