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[Eevee]

Only recollection I have of town-yuma is getting lynched day 1 in Ozle's game. Which suggests he is more careless when town, which in turn looks suspicious. And quickhammering Galz shows some devil-may-care - attitude in my opinion. So yes, I think it looks more like town-yuma, but I'm obviously not claiming this is bulletproof logic.

[Voltgloss]

yuma got lynched Day 1 in Ozle's game because (1) I, as scum in that game, got a last-minute deadline bandwagon rolling on him, based more on flavor and comparative lurking than anything else; and (2) yuma was Hated, meaning we only needed to hit L-1, making the lynch that much easier.

I would be very interested to see examples of yuma being "careless" or "devil-may-care" in Ozle's game.  Because I don't recall there being any.

[jotheonah]

unvote. Voltgloss will save us from the lurkerverse.

yuma, eagerly awaiting your defense.

[ashersky]

To me scum-yuma is meticulous and above all suspicion (right until he fails the quickhammer). The quickhammer doesn't fit that model very well at all.

Eevee, this is the second time today you've defended a vet player after one of us has called him out for playing differently than normal.  First saying "no way Frisk tries that to lure out PRs" and now "yuma's too smart to quickhammer."  Why aren't you open to any of these discussions?

[Eevee]

To me scum-yuma is meticulous and above all suspicion (right until he fails the quickhammer). The quickhammer doesn't fit that model very well at all.

Eevee, this is the second time today you've defended a vet player after one of us has called him out for playing differently than normal.  First saying "no way Frisk tries that to lure out PRs" and now "yuma's too smart to quickhammer."  Why aren't you open to any of these discussions?

I'm absolutely open to such discussions, which should be evident by the fact that I'm participating in them. I just disagree with your assessments is all. I also think "yuma is too smart to quickhammer" is a slight mischaracterization of what I was saying, it's more like "in my experience scum-yuma is too careful to quickhammer, he just blends in until it's too late". But no, I wouldn't put recognizing that meta and changing it up beyond yuma, dude seems to always be one step ahead. (Oh, I did the same defense thing yesterday; I opposed ehunt's lynch when there was a wagon forming on him. I like to offer my opinions on these things. Was right about ehunt too!)

yuma got lynched Day 1 in Ozle's game because (1) I, as scum in that game, got a last-minute deadline bandwagon rolling on him, based more on flavor and comparative lurking than anything else; and (2) yuma was Hated, meaning we only needed to hit L-1, making the lynch that much easier.

I would be very interested to see examples of yuma being "careless" or "devil-may-care" in Ozle's game.  Because I don't recall there being any.

Well that game was a while back, you probably remember the events better than I do if you were the one orchestrating the lynch. I just remembered him getting lynched day 1, that's usually a result of doing something weird that makes some townies go after them / makes it easy for scum to convince people to vote for them.

[yuma]

Hi folks.  Voltgloss here, swapping in for Grujah.  And I have something to say that I am surprised no one else has yet said.

1.  Galzria claimed "power role" (with no further details) in #246.
2.  yuma hammers in #265, four minutes after TheMunch put Galz at L-1, without Galz having been asked by anyone to actually claim.

Now, I'm not here to defend Serial Killer Galz's play.  It was incredibly erratic, "crazy" play, certainly.  But... but!...

I cannot understand why yuma, if he were town, would have hammered Galz without AT LEAST asking him to claim his power role first.

As I cannot ascribe yuma's behavior to town!yuma, I have to attribute it to scum!yuma.  I think yuma (correctly) guessed that Galz's erratic behavior + generic power role claim = Serial Killer, who could very well have been a mafia-immune Serial Killer, and decided that the benefit to scum for killing the SK early (i.e., complete control over the switches) outweighed the potential detriment of being called out for scummy quickhammering.

Well, I'm here to call yuma out for scummy quickhammering.

Vote: yuma

My only explanation, w/o reading any of the subsequent posts after yours, is to say that I voted immediately after reading Galz's selfvote. I didn't know he had claimed, I didn't know he was at L-1.

That is why I referenced the derphammer in my next post. But I maintain that it wasn't because I would have voted for Galz even if I knew all of the above. I will vote selfvotes.

[jotheonah]

...of claimed power roles?

I understand the sentiment, i really do, but in f.ds history, self-votes have been more often town than scum.

[Voltgloss]

My only explanation, w/o reading any of the subsequent posts after yours, is to say that I voted immediately after reading Galz's selfvote. I didn't know he had claimed, I didn't know he was at L-1.

So it sounds like you are saying:

1)  At the time you voted Galzria - 4:17:39 p.m. forum time, about 25 minutes after Galz's self-vote - you had read Galzria's self-vote but had NOT read any of the 21 posts between that self-vote and your hammer.

2)  66 seconds later, at 4:18:45 p.m. forum time, you had read those intervening 21 posts and realized your vote was the hammer. 

This is not plausible.

Here's what's plausible:  scum!yuma concluded Galz was SK and seized the chance to hammer him before Galz had a chance to withdraw his self-vote.

That is why I referenced the derphammer in my next post. But I maintain that it wasn't because I would have voted for Galz even if I knew all of the above. I will vote selfvotes.

You will vote selfvotes even when doing so is the hammer and the selfvoter has claimed having a power role but has not yet identified said role?

I don't think town!yuma would do that.  scum!yuma would, given sufficient reasons.  I think you thought those reasons existed here.

[yuma]

...of claimed power roles?

I understand the sentiment, i really do, but in f.ds history, self-votes have been more often town than scum.

like i said, I didn't know he was a claimed power role when I voted, but in that case, yes if I knew all the facts going into it I would have voted. I don't know if that would hold true for every situation in which a claimed power role self votes. That would depend on the context and the specific situation that we were in.

[yuma]

My only explanation, w/o reading any of the subsequent posts after yours, is to say that I voted immediately after reading Galz's selfvote. I didn't know he had claimed, I didn't know he was at L-1.

So it sounds like you are saying:

1)  At the time you voted Galzria - 4:17:39 p.m. forum time, about 25 minutes after Galz's self-vote - you had read Galzria's self-vote but had NOT read any of the 21 posts between that self-vote and your hammer.

2)  66 seconds later, at 4:18:45 p.m. forum time, you had read those intervening 21 posts and realized your vote was the hammer. 

This is not plausible.

Here's what's plausible:  scum!yuma concluded Galz was SK and seized the chance to hammer him before Galz had a chance to withdraw his self-vote.

That is why I referenced the derphammer in my next post. But I maintain that it wasn't because I would have voted for Galz even if I knew all of the above. I will vote selfvotes.

You will vote selfvotes even when doing so is the hammer and the selfvoter has claimed having a power role but has not yet identified said role?

I don't think town!yuma would do that.  scum!yuma would, given sufficient reasons.  I think you thought those reasons existed here.

I hadn't read all the posts, I had just skimmed them counting the number of votes... Truth be told I didn't know Galz had claimed a power role until just now, when you voted for me.

[Voltgloss]

I would like to hear everyone else's views on if they think yuma's hammer was the work of scum or the work of town.

[ashersky]

Okay, re-read D1, looked at Frisk specifically and all of eHunt's interactions.

Food for thought:

Frisk is basically only on Galz and eHunt the entire Day.  He opens the game on Galz, says it isn't RVS, and peppers the entire day with "how is Galz still alive unless he is scum."  He does some some pro-town stuff (#108 analysis on using vig shots, #125 post count).  The Frisk - eHunt argument starts at #159, basically, when he votes eHunt for what he says was claiming towncred for something that wasn't that big a deal.  Obviously, in retrospect, this looks worse.  CF ends up back on Galz by #177, comments on his own wagon (up to three votes in #187).  A final eHunt interaction comes in #207 when eHunt disagrees with me and says he does not think scumFrisk kills Robz N0.

EHunt stuff:

Other than Galz and Frisk, eHunt vote for joth once.

I think it's worth noting that Galz and eHunt had the one for one deal in play.  Can't say how it would have gone, but scum taking him out of the picture negated that.  Who does that help, though?

I think overall, my re-read tells me Frisk pushed the Galz lynch for a long, long time, and scumFrisk wouldn't know if he was SK or town, but would know he wasn't mafia.  It also tells me Frisk worked on eHunt during D1, and now eHunt's dead.

Would scumFrisk be obvious like that?  Probably not.  Which is a good wifom reason for him to actually do it.  Blargh.

[jotheonah]

My only explanation, w/o reading any of the subsequent posts after yours, is to say that I voted immediately after reading Galz's selfvote. I didn't know he had claimed, I didn't know he was at L-1.

So it sounds like you are saying:

1)  At the time you voted Galzria - 4:17:39 p.m. forum time, about 25 minutes after Galz's self-vote - you had read Galzria's self-vote but had NOT read any of the 21 posts between that self-vote and your hammer.

2)  66 seconds later, at 4:18:45 p.m. forum time, you had read those intervening 21 posts and realized your vote was the hammer.

This is not plausible.

Here's what's plausible:  scum!yuma concluded Galz was SK and seized the chance to hammer him before Galz had a chance to withdraw his self-vote.

That is why I referenced the derphammer in my next post. But I maintain that it wasn't because I would have voted for Galz even if I knew all of the above. I will vote selfvotes.

You will vote selfvotes even when doing so is the hammer and the selfvoter has claimed having a power role but has not yet identified said role?

I don't think town!yuma would do that.  scum!yuma would, given sufficient reasons.  I think you thought those reasons existed here.

Emphasis mine. This is as good as catching yuma in a lie, for me. I'm happy to sheep Volt here and vote: yuma.

[yuma]

To me scum-yuma is meticulous and above all suspicion (right until he fails the quickhammer). The quickhammer doesn't fit that model very well at all.

I will say that this argument is flawed. In any game I am generally meticulous and above all suspicion. I do make mistakes and errors, but this is really the first time I have done something w/o reading through the entire thread... I voted Galz because I was extremely frustrated by the selfvote and the trend of selfvoting we have been experiencing...

That said, what I think I would have done if I had read through the entire thread, would have been still to vote Galz... Galz at that point was anything but protown. It doesn't excuse my quickhammering, nor am I asking it to.

PPE: Jot, you are completely ignoring my response to that post... If you look you can see that I skimmed the posts for a vote count... that is very easily gone in 66 seconds.

[ashersky]

I would like to hear everyone else's views on if they think yuma's hammer was the work of scum or the work of town.

More likely scum than town.  Good points on yuma's timing, and his claims of not having noticed/read don't resonate.

Vote: Yuma

I do think Frisk is still worth a look.

[yuma]

I would like to hear everyone else's views on if they think yuma's hammer was the work of scum or the work of town.

More likely scum than town.  Good points on yuma's timing, and his claims of not having noticed/read don't resonate.

Vote: Yuma

I do think Frisk is still worth a look.

vote: ashersky abandoning a crappy selfmade wagon to join one that he knows to contain a townie...

[ashersky]

I would like to hear everyone else's views on if they think yuma's hammer was the work of scum or the work of town.

More likely scum than town.  Good points on yuma's timing, and his claims of not having noticed/read don't resonate.

Vote: Yuma

I do think Frisk is still worth a look.

vote: ashersky abandoning a crappy selfmade wagon to join one that he knows to contain a townie...

My sole vote on Frisk constitutes a wagon that I'm abandoning?  At least I've taken the time to build a case, which I actually pressed on D1, as well.  VG took the time to build a case on you.  You blithely lash out instead.

[TheMunch]

Hey guys.  Today IRL has been RIDICULOUS for me (in a not good way... I hate how expensive cars are... they are stupid) so I apologize for not posting.  I would have loved to post last night if it had opened while I was still awake but c'est la vie.

I still have a lot to reread (I've only really made it through the beginning of the day) but I can make a few comments on my emotions pre/during/post night:

-Yay we lynched scum and I was on the wagon!  Thats a first for me! (3 games that aren't even finished is hardly a large sample size but...)
-NO! We lynched SK.  Town is Screwed.
-Nuuuuuu I was wrong about CF.  I was really SK hunting, I just really thought I had stumbled upon him because of how similar I felt he was playing to myself in XI.  I really wanted to be right about that one, at least for a personal victory.  Him not being SK gives me a strong town read on him.
-Thought about Galz being dead some more.  Town is really screwed.
-*reread wagon on Galz* Wow that was really fast.  Yuma hammering looks REALLY REALLY without giving Galz the chance to unvote.  I know its a bad idea to vote self and thats a large part of why I voted for him.  But to take advantage of killing him because his vote is still on him is rather scummy.  Galz was being scummy enough that we almost certainly could have lynched him without his own support.  Now we have one less person on the wagon to analyze.  For shame Yuma.  Will vote Yuma when I am sure I am not hammering.

[yuma]

I would like to hear everyone else's views on if they think yuma's hammer was the work of scum or the work of town.

More likely scum than town.  Good points on yuma's timing, and his claims of not having noticed/read don't resonate.

Vote: Yuma

I do think Frisk is still worth a look.

vote: ashersky abandoning a crappy selfmade wagon to join one that he knows to contain a townie...

My sole vote on Frisk constitutes a wagon that I'm abandoning?  At least I've taken the time to build a case, which I actually pressed on D1, as well.  VG took the time to build a case on you.  You blithely lash out instead.

Semantics... wagon, single vote... whatever... the point is that you built a flawed case today and yesterday. You were pushing a lynch that had no substance. Sure Volt built a case, it has some merit. I am not blaming him for that. But I am saying that you are leaving your poorly built case on Frisk to join a relatively well build one on me... and voting for you.

[yuma]

For shame Yuma.  Will vote Yuma when I am sure I am not hammering.

I have no shame.

[TheMunch]

For shame Yuma.  Will vote Yuma when I am sure I am not hammering.

I have no shame.

Good.  Vote: Yuma

Ps an updated votecount would be good.

[yuma]

For shame Yuma.  Will vote Yuma when I am sure I am not hammering.

I have no shame.

Good.  Vote: Yuma

Ps an updated votecount would be good.

should be four votes on me by my count (volt, jot, ash, munch)

[ashersky]

Semantics... wagon, single vote... whatever... the point is that you built a flawed case today and yesterday. You were pushing a lynch that had no substance. Sure Volt built a case, it has some merit. I am not blaming him for that. But I am saying that you are leaving your poorly built case on Frisk to join a relatively well build one on me... and voting for you.

Volt crafts better posts, that's his thing.

Yesterday, Frisk deflected attention to Galz right off the bat, and eventually drove the wagon to lynch.  Yesterday, Frisk fought with eHunt over theory and over eHunt "claiming towncred" for something.  Today, both of those people are dead.  Well-crafted or not, a case is there to be made on Frisk.

Your quick hammer is the more compelling case for now, as can be seen by everyone else's reactions.

[yuma]

For shame Yuma.  Will vote Yuma when I am sure I am not hammering.

I have no shame.

Good.  Vote: Yuma

Ps an updated votecount would be good.

should be four votes on me by my count (volt, jot, ash, munch)

aka L-1... for those who were wondering

[Eevee]

OKAY GUYS THIS IS TOO FAST. Do not quickhammer him!