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[Teproc]

And who are you claiming is the third scum?  (Or, second and third scum, since you're not going to admit that you are one.)

You seriously need to reconsider. Like, seriously.

See above. I think you're town, wich makesit {faust, iguanaiguana, Hydrad}

[ashersky]

Vote Count 4.1:

faust (2): witherweaver, Teproc

Not Voting (5): 2.7, Hydrad, faust, iguanaiguana, Ampharos

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

[Teproc]

And really, people should not vote this fast. I'm only doing it because I have a result. If you're a townie about to vote for me, that's fine but please refrain from doing it, especially if you're likely to be unable to remove your vote in the coming hours, which seems somewhat likely given the time of year. Quickhammers are a thing.

[Witherweaver]

Unvote

I'd like everyone to claim their night actions.

[Ampharos]

Yep, let's do this carefully.  Night actions claimed first, then we lynch.

[Teproc]

Since this is all going to be about you trusting me or not, for the most part, I've been thinking about how to convince people, after being a bit horrified at reading the end of the last day.

What I've come up with is that I'm going to basically post my QT in this thread. I didn't start the game with a QT, ash gave me one because I was sending him PMs, and I've been posting in it all game, a lot. ash said it was fine to post anything that wouldn't have been a PM, ie everything except night actions PM. That doesn't fully make sense to me, but since this is a bit of a borderline play anyway, I'm not arguing.  I'm also not allowed to quote or paraphrase ash posts made in the QT obviously. Hopefully this will convince people ? I'm not sure what else I can do at this point.

ETA : I decided to remove any post adressing ash at all. Me being modkilled doesn't help anyone, and I'm guessing those could count as illegal in some way.

Fair warning : it is very, very long. Here goes :

DAY 1

I my little comment about yuma's play being null successfully baits yuma into suspecting me, I'll be very satisfied. That'd be the perfect amount of consistent suspicion coming from an important town voice (well, presumably town, but if he's scum it works too) to avoid a too-early NK.

Wait, no, he said he was waiting for something to happen, so it's probably not me. Damnit.

Macho Cop. Man. Usually I can at least hope Doctors exist, here they almost certainly do, and I emphatically do not want them to target me.

It just occured to me that faust is probably a PR. Well, either that or scum. But I think that's what's making him play this way, more laidback. The thing I'm failing at.

Sidenote : I'm not that convinced faust is town. But his play reminds me of what he did in that game with Mimes, where he succesfully passed for Mime (in my eyes at least) because he was Vig.

FWIW, in recent maifa history, the more "work" I do, the more likely I am to be scum. Hopefully some veterans (WW mainly will pick up on this and throw me some suspicion, so that I have a shot at survival.

I have no strong scumreads. It's a problem.

I'm hoping yuma is town and this wagon is what he needs to get back into it. If he persists, I do think that means he's scum.

Ampharos' paranoia is getting annoying.

If yuma comes to his senses, I'll be going after 2.7. He's trying very hard to replicate a reasonable town style, his town play is more off the cuff than this.

Better.

I have no idea what to make of Ampharos.

Well, now I know he's a VT if he's town, great job there.

How can faust think I'm so pro-town, I've barely made cases and a bunch of my posts have been fluff ? I've refrained from scumhunting more so many times in this game, like not making an actual case on e, not doing a reread of the people I'm unsure about etc.

I'm bad at this. I don't want to die. Please help me.

Maybe faust is a Tracker ?

This day is not going well overall. Way too much theory talk.

I just realized my PM seems to imply there's only one scum faction. Good to "know"

Ok, looks like I'm not a consesus town read, even though very few actually suspect me.

gdbQKNVFGNDSBGJLRSKBGN?./REKGJTRENKLGRE

Man, I am sick of having to walk on eggshells with yuma. Sick of it. I'm not posting in the thread because I don't want to cause another fight, but yuma, when you're reading this : stop it. Please stop getting offended at every little thing; I don't know how many times we have to restate that w elike playing with you for you to understand that we don't hate you just because we sometimes get annoyed.

"I'm not going to do X because you guys are mean to me" is not something I ever want to deal with, seriously. It's called emotional blackmail.

Anyway.

Assuming Awaclus flips town, who doI want to investigate. Ideally it should meet three criterias :
1) Decent likelihood of flipping scum
2) Highly unlikely to be NKed
3) Is someone I have a hard time reading

Now I do think e is the main one for 1) but... there's also the issue of me doing a complete 180 on him if I get a town result, and how obvious that's going to look to scum. The top candidates for 3) are WW and Hydrad, and they're both pretty unlikely to be NKed... I'm also very curious about Ampharos.

Mmmh. Not sure. I think e, WW and Ampharos are my main options. Gotta be e, I'm unlikely to live long anyway, might as well make my results super clear for people to see after I inevitably get NKed.

I hope I don't get NKed today ? I think yuma just assured he wouldn't be... well crap, unless they're PR-hunting or trying to avoid Doctors, I'm probably going to be NKed. Fuck.

Well actually not that many people find me super tonwnie, I have a shot... but there are no consensus town reads n this game. Well there's RR, but he's not your typical N1 kill. Well, we'll see.

There's also the fact that if I were to get a town result on e, it would look really, really obvious and scum might pick up on that.

Rereading past games for f.ds awards is reminding me I am awful, awful at reading faust. Like, I'm literally always wrong about him, I can't think o a single time I had a strong read on him that was correct. Worth remembering here. He is such an unnappealing target for a cop though, too likely to die.

Town result is worst result. Well, at least I'm alive. silver, huh ? Not an expected choice.

There, result planted, should look obvious after my flip, hopefully doesn't look too obvious now.

Getting a bad feeling about faust.

Why didn't I investigate faust again ?

Oh, right, likelihood of death is why. Hrmph.

The more I think about it, the more "reread during the night" seems way too obvious.

And now I'm putting Ampharos in green. Ugh. That was awkward.

I'm a terrible, terrible Cop. Sorry town.

WW enigmatically doesn't want to lynch Hydrad today...

If it's for PR reasons, that's even less subtle than my Ampharos thing.

faust not reacting to his wagon is... interesting.

I'm being dumb. I'm saying the Awaclus wagon was town-driven when I know for a fact 4 of the 6 off-wagon people are town. Even if both EgorK and Hydrad are town, that's still 1 scum on-wagon.

The problem there is the deciding vote in e vs Awaclus was Haddock, and I very much think he's town. Roadrunner7671 is the second most important vote, and he's probably town too...

Still, it's pretty unlikely that all 3 scum are on-wagon right ? Especially an Awaclus lynch, not the kind that's too hard to get town enthusiastic about. Should probably be going for EgorK or Hydrad.

Should say "Even if both EgorK and Hydrad are scum"

For the record, I am aware my result might not being trustworthy, this being a closed setup and all. I am also going to ignore that.

All that being said, I think this faust wagon should be fruitful in the long run, staying on it for now, expecting a fourth vote to come from scum.

I have a bunch of townreads, I should be able to PoE pretty well here.

Ampharos => conf!town

iguanaiguana => Very likely town
Haddock => Very likely town
yuma => Very likely town
Roadrunner7671 => Very likely town

That leaves me with :
EgorK
Hydrad
faust
Witherweaver
2.71828...

That looks a lot like silver's null reads... actually it's the exact same except he read WW as town. That doesn't really clear him, but I don't have a particularly good reason to suspect WW right now, so let's remove him.

EgorK
Hydrad
faust
2.71828...

2 on, 2 off. I like this a lot.

Ooh, yuma faking annoyance at the end of Day 1 makes me even more confident he's town. And the quoting the PM he sent... theoretically scum can of course fake it, but most of the times that comes from town.

Also, it appears that my reaction to yuma in this QT was a bit excessive then. Sorry about that.

No one reacting t the faust wagon truly makes me more suspicious of him. Which is dumb. Well, it makes sense in that scum might not want to react to it because they're not sure how far it will go, but obviously plenty of townie are ignoring it too.

I like having this QT. It prevents me from posting all the time, which hopefully means I'm less townie.

Sidenote : if you're an investigative PR, having strong town reads and not hedging on them too much is good I think. It means scum might think they're in the clear with you and not kill you. But everytime you're not killed, you should question everything.

I guess I haven't questioned my town reads allthat much, maybe I should take my own advice. Still like Haddock and iguana though. Roadrunner is the one I'm starting to have doubts on. We'll see about that tomorrow if there is one.

Why is everyone complaining day 1 was long ? Ok, rereads get a bit harder, but it's not like people were lurking. The last time I remember a day 1 being remarkably long was ASoIaF Mafia, and that was almost a flawless town win. Definitely better for day 1 to be long than short.

Wasn't planning to tunnel faust like this, but it could work out. Need to look at how scum!faust usually responds to pressure. So far he's been doing exactly what I'd do, but that's just me.

If I talk a lot about getting night killed I won't be ? That could work, I've never done that before and, well, we know how it usually ends.

I did have a theory that faust was a PR in day 1. WHy did I forget about that ?

So, let's see, among typical roles, what could it be ?

Tracker and Watcher are the obvious ones. But those are very definitive, and it's not like faust immediately went after WW today. He spent some time refuting arguments against him and throwing suspicion at e, stuff like that. Not a lot, and he hasn't voted for anyone else, but still.

Both of those are also obvious, and lead WW to claim to have targeted Awaclus for some good reason. Not sure faust would insist on having WW claim first there.

So what's left after that ? Rolecop. Like if you ROlecop a Bus Driver, hey, he could be town. And now it makes sense to have WW claim first, because if he claims Bus Driver, well maybe he's town, otherwise nope.

Then there are the weird invesigative variants like Psychologist and stuff, but well, there's me. It's already a stretch to have both Cop and Tracker... though I do have a negative modifier, so could he.

In fact this might be a theme here. If I believe yuma we have a Random Vig. I'm a Macho Cop.

I might be on to something here. If faust doesn't claim a negative modifier ... but well, I probably won't claim my Macho modifier if I claim, so meh, thats not that good.

Ok, so he has some investigative role with some negative modifier, proabbly. This modifier could be why he'd need WW to claim first.

to have targeted silverspawn*

My dream is that faust is correct and we lynch WW,then scum has to kill faust. And I get to live !

I'm second-guessing my "WW claims first" stance though. faust's answers werereasonable, and he hasn't fakeclaimed in those circumstances before (he fakeclaimed at L-1 in Flavorless and out of the gate in MU), but still.

I feel like I'm not doing this right.

The core of the matter is : I think WW is more likely to be scum, so I wan thim to claim first. But the scenario where WW refuses to claim and we lynch him is just horrible.

And I'm trying to think of what scenarios go really wrong if we make faust claim first.

Obviously faust, if he is town, has some doubt, or he wouldn't do it this way. This might be linked to some modifier, as that appears to be a trend, but which one could bring that ? I'm not sure.

OTOH, can I see faust making this play. It's great, great for him if we make WW claim first. But why do this now ? Day 2, after a mislynch ? Where's the urgency to take a huge risk like that ? I doubt he just thought this up under pressure.

should investigate this [modifier] PR theme. So far we have :
- Active Treestump. Presumably means Awaclus' votes didn't actually count but seemed like they counted ? That sounds bastard-y though. In any case it definitely is a town PR with a modifier.
- Macho Cop.
- (unconfirmed)Random Vig.

Looking at modifiers on mafiascum, what could we have here ?

Loyal [weak town role] could be something, but WW claiming wouldnt' really help faust much.

Reflexive [investigative role] too. faust would need WW to confirm he targeted him and why... but then that's two investigative rolessince there's me.

With WW softclaiming PR (I don't care what he's saying to RR, he clearly is doing that here), it seems likely at least one of the two is lying. The timing of faust's claim seems townie to me.

"Active", what the hell does that mean. He choose wether or not to be a Treestump ? In which scenario would you choose to be one ?

Oh, maybe because it ICfies you. Maybe that makes sense. That derphammer was really a shame.

The Great WW Breadcrumbing of 2015

In his first post, says "I ain't afraid of you". Could be Daredevil ? Then vote silver because "it feels right", also kinda works with that.

Alright, I don't feel like reading more, gonna assume it's that. Especially because Daredevil would fit great in the "power with a negative modifier" theme.

Might be a cross-factional theme though.

Also, might not be a theme at all. But I really like it so Ikinda want it to be.

"I'm protown because fuck squirrels"

I know Squirrel Girl is a thing that exists, but I have no idea who that comment would point to.

I'm kind of expecting WW to say "Ok, come at me bro". I'm not looking forward to that. Because, unfortunately, I think he'll do it regardless to his alignment, hoping that town chickens out. Town won't chicken out, and then we run the risk of another freaking derphammer.

"just a bad kid". Well now I'm lost, don't think that's Daredevil.

Haven't been this angry since ASoIaF mafia.

This is a disaster. If faust doesn't come in and claim, we're just going to be stuck there. It's ridiculous that people are trying to pretnd like we can ignore the whole thing and go on our merry way.

I like this Haddock guy.

Yep, definitely a theme.

Random Vig
Active Tree Stump
Macho Cop
NInja Tracker

Worth noting that Ninja Tracker could easily be a scum role. Not the typical scum role sure, but still.

Though actually, if he's scum, Black Widow isn't his real flavor, so he'd have to invent it for her. I guess it could probably work for other flavors though.

Now we get into the problem of having someone claim first.

If WW doesn't claim, it's hard to justify not lynching him. It's not a definitive result, but assuming trust in faust's claim (and I do have that), it still makes him so much more likely to be scum than anyone else.

If he does claim, it has very little value, because he knows exactly what he has to claim if he's scum. If he claims something that' verifiable in some way maybe we can keep him alive, but really if WW just happens to be a Doctor or a Roleblocker who targeted silver, we're just going to lynch him because those are too convenient now.

How likely is it that they are both town here ?

9 town, 3 scum.

Macho Cop + Random Vigilante + Active Tree Stump + Ninja Tracker + Motion Detector

That's 5 PRs, 4 VTs. A lot. Three investigative roles too. Seems unlikely.

Ninja Tracker is strong though. That + Macho Cop is more of a stretch than Motion Detector + Macho Cop.

Look at who roled PRs in this game, if the claims are true.

Teproc, yuma, Awaclus, faust, Witherweaver.

Poor newbies, they all rolled VT if they rolled town. Ampharos almost definitely VT-slipped there.

Yet they both seem townie.

I think we should lynch elsewhere and I investigate WW tonight. He's the lest likely to die of the two. If he's scum, well great, and if he's town I'll go after faust I think. 3 investigative roles is one too many.

Well, maybe not. I really don't think faust is scum. I hope he gets NKed. Sucks to lose the Tracker but at least it'll make things simpler. Also it means I don't get NKed, I like that.

yuma's thing about not wanting to lynch people who agree with him sounds familiar, so he must have said it before, but it is so incredibly, bafflingly illogical to me.

My read have basically not changed from yesterday. If I survive tonight, I should wonder about that.

Testing my long-stnading theory that defending yourself is basically the wors thing you can do.

Throwing in a fake VT softclaim for scum. Don't think it will hurt my eventual claim too much if it comes to that,my Ampharos breadcrumb is clear enough.

What isup with yuma this game ? His examples for what scum!faust would have claimed were truly terrible...

And I definitely didn't remember this "you don't agree with me, you must be scum" mentality either.

I like Ampharos's style.

This is where we'll see if my "don't be too townie" play backfires.

Is e actually scum buddying yuma here ? I know buddying is always thrown around as being this scummy thing, yet I don't remember actually seeing scum do it, ever. But this feels wrong.

People complaining about the game not living up to their weird contradictory standards is townie, but annoying.

Hrm. The plan was for veterans to be suspicious but unabe to lynch me because newbies would think I'm town. This could take a turn.

Prediction : the next vote on me (if the situation hasn't changed significantly in between) will be cast by scum.

Sadly, we don't get to find that out.

This is heading to be the longest (page-wise) game since Dice Mafia. ASoIaF being 60 pages, we'll overtake pretty easily. If restricting to normal games, it'll be the longest since Modern Community.

That's pretty impressive.

So, if it's e vs me

e (3) : Haddock, Teproc, WW
Teproc (3) : Ampharos, yuma, e

iguana goes on e, Hydrad goes on Teproc. That leaves EgorK, faust and RR. RR is a complete wildcard, the other two are more likely to vote for me I think.

Not looking good.

Actually faust has voted e at one point. So it'll come down to Egork and RR if it's between e and me.

Worth noting : as much as everyone is complaining about the length, and I'm sure if town loses everyone will point to that as the principal factor, this game proves that activity breeds activity. No one is lurking. EgorK has 111 posts, Hydrad 109, this is near the end of day 2. That's about thrice EgorK's total posts in an average game, and twice Hydrad's.

Man, the amount of self-control it takes me to not snap at yuma here...

It doesn't help that I'm pretty sure he's town blindsided by his "people agree with me, they must be town" general attitude (an oversimplification I know, but still).

That was too close for comfort. Still think my choices are paying off so far, as there is very little chance I'm getting NKed (even if e is scum), but there is a real risk of my claim not being trusted. Especially because it's the third investigative role, and people will se my trust of faust/ww as contradictory with being an investigative PR.

Which, they might not be wrong about that. faust really could be scum. If he survives tonight, might be a sign. Hard for scum to live with a Tracker around.

Really ? If RR isn't trolling, that's the luckiest scum lynch ever. Major props to yuma there.

That does mean yuma is an acceptable alternative to faust dying here. He really is close to an IC after this.

Hah, RR thinks we're screwed. WIFOM there, but that's interesting. Points towards faust or yuma.

If I'm RR's partner, I'm not happy about what he's doing here.

Hah, he got me. Well done.

Let's think about what happens next.

The NK : faust or yuma is my guess. WW possible, Ampharos too.

My result : if e is scum, easy. Do the CJM. faust might track me and force me to claim, but that's fine.

If e is town... it gets dicier. It might be worth claiming for the PoE alone, but looking at that "potential NKs" list, I might live for a while here. The main concern is that my turn on him is going to be very, very visible. And I can't hide it if I want my results to be clear in case of NK.

If yuma doesn't shoot, we're still a day ahead of mylo right ?

6 town, 3 scum. Mislynch + NK = 4 town, 3 scum. Right, so if yuma doesn't shoot we still have a mislynch to give. If he does, obviously that depends what he hits.

I think he will. I really dislike it, but I get it.

From yuma's Pov, there are 9 targets he could hit. Presumably this s
- 3 scum
- 5 townies
- 1 townie who scum was NKing anyway

Yeah, I wouldn't shoot.

If I get a town result, I need to rethink everything. I'm getting paranoid about faust/WW. It seems that all serious wagons (except the one on Egork) in this game were on town. That should tell me scum is dominating the game right ?

Don't think I could wait with that result, it would have looked opportunistic. It still might.

If faust can confirm WW targeted e, I don't know what to think. Should probably haveasked him to clarify first, but I really thought his "I guess" meant that he was just saying he hadn't targeted e himself... less sure now.

If he targeted WW, this is a huge mess.

Well, Vanillaiser does make this massclaim ... not great. I wouldn't have claimed today if I ddn't think I had a guilty "result", but I probably would have been forced to I guess.

Basically, scum is going to Vanillaise me and kill faust if he's town. Though Haddock could JK faust... mmm, so they are in a tough spot.

This means scum really, really wants to lynch one of us three if we're all town. They don't really care about WW, but if those three PRs all exist, this night is a nightmare for them.

Well, it didn't work. Tried to get cute with my playstyle, thinking I could find the right balance of scummy to townie, turns out I can't. I'll go back t getting killed N1 every game I guess.

Tomorrow is going to be interesting. Man, getting mislynched at mylo is not something that's ever happened to me, and I don't intend to start now.

Now who do I cop ?

This is going to be tough. I'm no yuma, talking myself out of being lynched isn't a thing I do. I'm especially terrible at it as scum, and haven't had to done it much as town.

iguana being scum migh explain the silver NK ? I can't remember if silver still suspected him by the end of day 1. I will do a massive reread, will have to check for that.

[Teproc]

Forgot to add demarcations for various days but it should be obvious enough.

Anyway, hope it does the trick. Going to a New Year's Eve party now, so preemptively : happy new year everyone.

[Witherweaver]

What does  your Macho modifier do?

[Ampharos]

Want to see these night action results before I comment on any of that.

[iguanaiguana]

Nothing to report obviously. The only night actions we are waiting for are Faust and WW, no?

[iguanaiguana]

I think we need to hear from Faust first here.

[Hydrad]

Nothing to report obviously. The only night actions we are waiting for are Faust and WW, no?

and Haddock also I think.

[Hydrad]

oh never mind.

[Hydrad]

I guess I'll claim my night actions to get this moving. I did nothing. perfect. Now with that info finding scum should be super easy.

[Hydrad]

as for whos scum... no clue.

But if I've learned one thing its that faust living past day 3 is usually a scum tell.

[2.71828.....]

I also did nothing.

And yeah, that is a lot of words for Teproc.

[2.71828.....]

I have a bunch of townreads, I should be able to PoE pretty well here.

Ampharos => conf!town

iguanaiguana => Very likely town
Haddock => Very likely town
yuma => Very likely town
Roadrunner7671 => Very likely town

That leaves me with :
EgorK
Hydrad
faust
Witherweaver
2.71828...

Except now we can cross out EgorK [and myself].

Hydrad, faust, WW scumteam.

[2.71828.....]

as for whos scum... no clue.

But if I've learned one thing its that faust living past day 3 is usually a scum tell.

Like, this is so scummy.

[2.71828.....]

But really, that last post by Hydrad.  Serious amount of hedging.  Serious lack of reads for so late in the game.

I believe Teproc completely at this point.  If everyone else does as well, we have

conf!town - Ampharos, 2.7, Teproc
? - Hydrad, WW, iguana
scum - faust.

I still like my early gut read on iguana being town.  But actually...WW might be town.  Maybe it is hydrad, faust, iguana.

But I do like faust today.  I will vote like tomorrow or something probably.

[Hydrad]

Oh that post is supposed to mean that I'm more willing to go Faust instead of teproc. But I just haven't voted incase of quick hammers

[2.71828.....]

Oh that post is supposed to mean that I'm more willing to go Faust instead of teproc. But I just haven't voted incase of quick hammers

That makes sense.

You are also scum.

[Hydrad]

Oh that post is supposed to mean that I'm more willing to go Faust instead of teproc. But I just haven't voted incase of quick hammers

That makes sense.

You are also scum.

Well that's not good. Luckily your only one man so I'm just going to assume others will see my immense towniness and I will become an IC

[Teproc]

What does  your Macho modifier do?

A quick Google search answers that you know.

Macho means I can't get doctored.

What does  your Macho modifier do?

Protective roles have no effect on me.

Also, hello from the future. It's been 2016 for a while here. It's not that different.

[Teproc]

That got a bit garbled. I don't drink but I can do a "very tired AMA". I suppose we're waiting to claim his incredibly relevant night action first.

[Teproc]

"faust" should appear somewhere in the above sentence.