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[ashersky]

ash, if you're town, I get that there's value in waiting. But you need to give us something (your result) for us to give you something (belief of your claim).*

*I know this is ironic what with me half-claimed myself, but I gave my initial claim to get the massclaim rolling, and now WW and Teproc, my two biggest town reads, have agreed to put you at the top of the massclaim and me at the bottom so, what can you do.

I gave you all of D1, where I know you picked up on it.  I gave you my full role.  If you really think I'm lying, my result doesn't matter.  If you believe me, you'll support me in waiting for my result when I think it's the right time.

Nothing I say actually changes that fundamental truth.

[silverspawn]

Also, remember that SS just finished a game of C9++, where 1-shot cop is fairly normal sounding, the chance of multiple cops exists (which he argues later) and he even used the PM language from C9++ (Innocent result).

I was a one-shot doctor in the game that I just finished. claiming an almost identical role is way too flat for me to do it as scum.

[Voltaire]

ash, I'll take that (about silver) under advisement. Now, your N1 result, please.

PPE: Yes, I know you claimed PR D1. You're either scum who was planning this (absolutely what you'd do) or scum risked leaving you alive to be mislynched/thought you were gambiting as a VT etc etc etc. We're trying to sort all that out right now.

[ashersky]

ash, I'll take that (about silver) under advisement. Now, your N1 result, please.

PPE: Yes, I know you claimed PR D1. You're either scum who was planning this (absolutely what you'd do) or scum risked leaving you alive to be mislynched/thought you were gambiting as a VT etc etc etc. We're trying to sort all that out right now.

If you don't believe my claim, lynch me.

If you do believe my claim, trust me that everyone will learn my result at the right time.

[Voltaire]

I need your result to know if I believe your claim.

[Teproc]

ash, I'll take that (about silver) under advisement. Now, your N1 result, please.

PPE: Yes, I know you claimed PR D1. You're either scum who was planning this (absolutely what you'd do) or scum risked leaving you alive to be mislynched/thought you were gambiting as a VT etc etc etc. We're trying to sort all that out right now.

If you don't believe my claim, lynch me.

If you do believe my claim, trust me that everyone will learn my result at the right time.

vote : ash

If you're town, you will claim your resul rather than be lynched. If you're town and don't claim rather than be lynched, you're just being anti-town and contrarian for the sake of it.

[Hydrad]

I know no one trusts my opinion right now but I feel I should still state it. I'm ok with asher waiting.

[silverspawn]

If you're town, you will claim your resul rather than be lynched. If you're town and don't claim rather than be lynched, you're just being anti-town and contrarian for the sake of it.

yes. I was about to vote for ash, but decided not to do it because I feared it'd make me scummy to vote for him first. yes I was self aware of that.

alas, vote: ash

[ashersky]

If you're town and don't claim rather than be lynched, you're just being anti-town and contrarian for the sake of it.

You know me well.

I already followed an arbitrary claim order decided by players of alignment unknown to all.  My result comes when I want.

[Voltaire]

vote: ashersky

I'm getting a "this is scum!ash who is disinterested/having difficulty faking his town self because he thinks the setup is against him" vibe, and I've been getting it since late D1.

You know what would help me shake this vibe? If I had a result...

[Teproc]

If you're town and don't claim rather than be lynched, you're just being anti-town and contrarian for the sake of it.

You know me well.

I already followed an arbitrary claim order decided by players of alignment unknown to all.  My result comes when I want.

I do, and this is why I'm making this point now : know that if you're town and accept to go down rather than do something you don't like, you are ruining the game. Plain and simple. You're letting your ego get in the way.

If you're scum what you're doing is fine, if you're town I hope you'll see that you have no choice, however much you'd rather be claiming later.

Something isn't arbitrary because you disagree with it.

[ashersky]

If you're town and don't claim rather than be lynched, you're just being anti-town and contrarian for the sake of it.

You know me well.

I already followed an arbitrary claim order decided by players of alignment unknown to all.  My result comes when I want.

I do, and this is why I'm making this point now : know that if you're town and accept to go down rather than do something you don't like, you are ruining the game. Plain and simple. You're letting your ego get in the way.

If you're scum what you're doing is fine, if you're town I hope you'll see that you have no choice, however much you'd rather be claiming later.

Something isn't arbitrary because you disagree with it.

I don't actually disagree with the claiming order.  It is truly arbitrary.

I am incensed with the innocent child crap that's been flying around this game, actually.  Incensed.  It makes me incredibly angry, in fact.

There is no mod-confirmed, set-up reason to believe WW is town.  It's been confirmed a million times that flavor names have no bearing on alignment.  A mod mistake on flavor names in PMs...it happens.  Not a big deal at all.  If there was a mod-mistake that gave town an IC, that'd be incredibly unfair to scum, right?  I've modded a lot, as you all know.  If I made an error that completely changed the balance of the setup, I'd have done something about it.  So would faust.

Anyway, as for your moralizing above -- you are not the Pope of f.ds.  You do not get to determine what is, and isn't, morally acceptable for town players.  Voltaire and I have had this argument in the past.

[ashersky]

To be clear, you will not bully me into claiming something I don't want to claim.

[Voltaire]

It's not that faust made the mistake, it's how WW reacted/pointed it out.

Also after lynching PPS I'm willing to consider him town until D45 if that makes you feel better.

[Teproc]

To be clear, you will not bully me into claiming something I don't want to claim.

Fine. If you're town and get lynched for this, I will never sign up for a game with you in it, ever again. This is not meant to be a threat, just an explanation of how I feel about this.

[Voltaire]

ash, how is withholding your result related to anything you just posted?

[ashersky]

To be clear, you will not bully me into claiming something I don't want to claim.

Fine. If you're town and get lynched for this, I will never sign up for a game with you in it, ever again. This is not meant to be a threat, just an explanation of how I feel about this.

This is you trying to blame the victim.

If a group of people decide collective to murder someone, it isn't the victim's fault.  (That's what the lynch represents, you know.)

It will take a majority of town deciding that they do not believe me.  If they don't believe me, that's on them, not on me.  I told the truth, I explained my motives, there's nothing left for me to do that doesn't go against my core values.

[Voltaire]

There is no mod-confirmed, set-up reason to believe WW is town.

When people say WW is an IC, there is an implied (at least for me) asterisk after the statement. He's not a true IC. We all know that. Typing it out every single time would be maddening.

[Voltaire]

If a group of people decide collective to murder someone, it isn't the victim's fault.  (That's what the lynch represents, you know.)

This is silly and inflammatory and you know it.

[Voltaire]

It will take a majority of town deciding that they do not believe me.  If they don't believe me, that's on them, not on me.  I told the truth, I explained my motives, there's nothing left for me to do that doesn't go against my core values.

Your core values of going to your grave a cop who didn't share his result?

[ashersky]

ash, how is withholding your result related to anything you just posted?

You can come up with many reasons for why a cop would withhold his result at a certain time.  If I give the reason(s), well, that's a good way to negate the reason, right?

As for relating to the current discussion -- I've tried to move on, but Teproc (currently, you previously) continues to push me and has made it a "claim or die" threat.  And now he's calling me an unfun poopyhead (basically) for not following his orders.

[Voltaire]

If you're town and get lynched for this, I will never sign up for a game with you in it, ever again. This is not meant to be a threat, just an explanation of how I feel about this.

This is also too much.

[ashersky]

There is no mod-confirmed, set-up reason to believe WW is town.

When people say WW is an IC, there is an implied (at least for me) asterisk after the statement. He's not a true IC. We all know that. Typing it out every single time would be maddening.

Is typing out "strong town-read" or "basically town" or the like a pain?  We can decide a new acronym, if you want.  OT for obvtown.  WL for won't lynch.  IC is a specific mafia role with specific connotations for balance and gameplay.

[ashersky]

If a group of people decide collective to murder someone, it isn't the victim's fault.  (That's what the lynch represents, you know.)

This is silly and inflammatory and you know it.

It's one or the other, but I don't think it's both.

[Teproc]

ash : There will come a point when you're at L-1 with intent to hammer. At that point, you make the choice. You can blame other people all you want, but that's how it works.

Blaming the victim is in fact very appropriate in mafia games. People who get mislynched are at least 50% responsible for it (ie more than any one townie on their wagon).

You're using real world rethoric but this is a game, it doesn't work the same way.