Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: A Saboteur variation  (Read 3974 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Spellbound

  • Steward
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 28
  • Respect: +16
    • View Profile
A Saboteur variation
« on: May 12, 2015, 01:59:45 pm »
0

Kidnap [6] (Action-Attack)
+$2
Each other player reveals cards from the top of his deck until revealing one costing $3 or more.
Set aside that card. Return them to his deck at the end of the game.

No more rage on losing VPs from Province or Colony, actually having a VP card kidnapped is helpful.
It doesn't give substitute card, but most of the time I think it will just hit Silver... maybe OP if it hits something expensive, but that won't happen much though.
Feel free to discuss :)

Fixed
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 02:17:37 pm by Spellbound »
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11820
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12876
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: A Saboteur variation
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2015, 02:04:28 pm »
0

Sounds too powerful. In the early game, when your opponent doesn't have that many expensive cards in his deck yet, this can slow him down a lot, and a terminal Gold for $6 is fairly good for your own economy.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Spellbound

  • Steward
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 28
  • Respect: +16
    • View Profile
Re: A Saboteur variation
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2015, 02:17:21 pm »
0

Sounds too powerful. In the early game, when your opponent doesn't have that many expensive cards in his deck yet, this can slow him down a lot, and a terminal Gold for $6 is fairly good for your own economy.

+$3 was a typo. :( it would be too much better than Gold that way
Logged

Dingan

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1154
  • Shuffle iT Username: Dingan
  • Respect: +1732
    • View Profile
    • Website title
Re: A Saboteur variation
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2015, 03:06:24 pm »
0

I want to say it's under-powered for $6.  It's basically similar to Rogue or Dame Sylvia but not as good, unless you hit something > $6 like a Forge or a Platinum or something.  9 times out of 10 I'd probably just want Rogue or Dame Sylvia over this.  But it's certainly better than Sab.
Logged

qmech

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1918
  • Shuffle iT Username: qmech
  • What year is it?
  • Respect: +2320
    • View Profile
Re: A Saboteur variation
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2015, 03:15:05 pm »
0

Rogue is kept in check by the fact that you have to gain from the trash half the time.  And this attack is stronger than Saboteur as the slow decay of your more valuable cards slows down the Saboteur significantly.  Producing coins as well makes this look a bit over the top.

Setting aside the top card would weaken the attack considerably, but also open the door to total deck destruction.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11820
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12876
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: A Saboteur variation
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2015, 04:40:35 pm »
+2

I want to say it's under-powered for $6.  It's basically similar to Rogue or Dame Sylvia but not as good, unless you hit something > $6 like a Forge or a Platinum or something.  9 times out of 10 I'd probably just want Rogue or Dame Sylvia over this.  But it's certainly better than Sab.

It's way better than Rogue or Dame Sylvia. Rogue and Sylvia reveal top 2 and do nothing if neither revealed card costs $3 or more, this digs for a $3 or more expensive card and doesn't let the opponent choose. Additionally, Rogue has the drawback of having to gain cards from the trash, and Sylvia has the drawback of trashing itself (although, it does also have the upside of being a Knight).
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

LibraryAdventurer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1801
  • Shuffle iT Username: LibraryAdventurer
  • I wish my username had the links like it once did.
  • Respect: +1687
    • View Profile
Re: A Saboteur variation
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2015, 08:13:29 pm »
0

Kidnap [6] (Action-Attack)
+$2
Each other player reveals cards from the top of his deck until revealing one costing $3 or more.
Set aside that card. Return them to his deck at the end of the game.

No more rage on losing VPs from Province or Colony, actually having a VP card kidnapped is helpful.
It doesn't give substitute card, but most of the time I think it will just hit Silver... maybe OP if it hits something expensive, but that won't happen much though.
Feel free to discuss :)
This is cool, I like the idea of fixing Saboteur to prevent trashing Provines or Colonies. In responce to people's comments, here's my version:

Quote
Kidnap
Cost $6  Action-Attack
+$2
Each other player reveals cards from the top of his deck until revealing one costing $3 or more and discards the others. If it's an action or treasure card: set it aside and they may gain a card costing no more than $2 less than the set aside card that is not a victory card. Otherwise, return the card to the top of the player's deck.
-
Cards set aside with Kidnap return to their owner's deck at the end of the game.
Would this be weak enough to cost $5 since it's stopped by victory cards and allows victims to gain a cheaper card?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 08:16:41 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
Logged

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2860
    • View Profile
Re: A Saboteur variation
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2015, 09:35:48 pm »
0

What about a one shot?

"7$ Jack Sparrow
+2$
Each opponent puts his deck into his discard pile.  For each opponent, choose any number of cards with total cost N$.  He puts those cards on his Island mat.  Put Jack Sparrow on your Island mat."
Logged

faust

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3384
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +5166
    • View Profile
Re: A Saboteur variation
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2015, 06:37:02 am »
+2

What about a one shot?

"7$ Jack Sparrow
+2$
Each opponent puts his deck into his discard pile.  For each opponent, choose any number of cards with total cost N$.  He puts those cards on his Island mat.  Put Jack Sparrow on your Island mat."

It's CAPTAIN Jack Sparrow!
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

pubby

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 548
  • Respect: +1047
    • View Profile
Re: A Saboteur variation
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2015, 07:16:13 am »
+1

I always thought a card like this could work:

Traitor - $5
Each other player names Treasure or Victory, then reveals cards from the top of his deck until revealing one costing $3 or more that isn't of the named type. He trashes that card and discards the rest.
Logged

Burning Skull

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1150
  • Shuffle iT Username: Burning Skull
  • See you in the Outpost
  • Respect: +1843
    • View Profile
Re: A Saboteur variation
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2015, 07:38:32 am »
0

I always thought a card like this could work:

Traitor - $5
Each other player names Treasure or Victory, then reveals cards from the top of his deck until revealing one costing $3 or more that isn't of the named type. He trashes that card and discards the rest.

Hmm. It seems it generally won't be very useful in engine mirrors, and will lead to degenerate games in BM-ish decks.

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2860
    • View Profile
Re: A Saboteur variation
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2015, 08:11:45 pm »
0

I always thought a card like this could work:

Traitor - $5
Each other player names Treasure or Victory, then reveals cards from the top of his deck until revealing one costing $3 or more that isn't of the named type. He trashes that card and discards the rest.

Hmm. It seems it generally won't be very useful in engine mirrors, and will lead to degenerate games in BM-ish decks.
I disagree, I think it looks like a really, really well designed cards.  It might be useless in some engine mirrors, but in some it will be powerful. 

In BM I don't think it will be degenerate or even useful.  It's a workshop that mostly gains Silver but sometimes gains Gold at random, in reverse.  For a 5$ terminal ruined village that's worthless.
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10722
    • View Profile
Re: A Saboteur variation
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2015, 01:51:43 pm »
0

Kidnap
Cost $6  Action-Attack
+$2
Each other player reveals cards from the top of his deck until revealing one costing $3 or more and discards the others. If it's an action or treasure card: set it aside and they may gain a card costing no more than $2 less than the set aside card that is not a victory card. Otherwise, return the card to the top of the player's deck.
-
Cards set aside with Kidnap return to their owner's deck at the end of the game.

Dude, even with some editing on my part, that text takes up 10 lines on a card. There's no way it will fit without a tiny, tiny typeface.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11820
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12876
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: A Saboteur variation
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2015, 02:22:21 pm »
0

Kidnap
Cost $6  Action-Attack
+$2
Each other player reveals cards from the top of his deck until revealing one costing $3 or more and discards the others. If it's an action or treasure card: set it aside and they may gain a card costing no more than $2 less than the set aside card that is not a victory card. Otherwise, return the card to the top of the player's deck.
-
Cards set aside with Kidnap return to their owner's deck at the end of the game.

Dude, even with some editing on my part, that text takes up 10 lines on a card. There's no way it will fit without a tiny, tiny typeface.

10 lines is doable. If memory serves me right, two of the official Finnish cards have 10 lines plus a dividing line.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7495
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +10722
    • View Profile
Re: A Saboteur variation
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2015, 02:27:32 pm »
0

Kidnap
Cost $6  Action-Attack
+$2
Each other player reveals cards from the top of his deck until revealing one costing $3 or more and discards the others. If it's an action or treasure card: set it aside and they may gain a card costing no more than $2 less than the set aside card that is not a victory card. Otherwise, return the card to the top of the player's deck.
-
Cards set aside with Kidnap return to their owner's deck at the end of the game.

Dude, even with some editing on my part, that text takes up 10 lines on a card. There's no way it will fit without a tiny, tiny typeface.

10 lines is doable. If memory serves me right, two of the official Finnish cards have 10 lines plus a dividing line.

Usually the limit in English is 8 lines. And if a card is 10 lines in English, how many lines would it be in Finnish?

Besides, at a certain point it's just too wordy. Remembering how it works is as much of an issue as the actual number of lines.
Logged

LibraryAdventurer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1801
  • Shuffle iT Username: LibraryAdventurer
  • I wish my username had the links like it once did.
  • Respect: +1687
    • View Profile
Re: A Saboteur variation
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2015, 07:07:11 pm »
0

Dude, even with some editing on my part, that text takes up 10 lines on a card. There's no way it will fit without a tiny, tiny typeface.

10 lines is doable. If memory serves me right, two of the official Finnish cards have 10 lines plus a dividing line.

Usually the limit in English is 8 lines. And if a card is 10 lines in English, how many lines would it be in Finnish?

Besides, at a certain point it's just too wordy. Remembering how it works is as much of an issue as the actual number of lines.

I guess I could just cut some words out:
Quote
Kidnap
Cost $6  Action-Attack
+$2
Each other player reveals decks cards until revealing one costing $3 or more and discards the others. If it's an action or treasure card: set it aside and they may gain a card costing no more than $2 less than the set aside card that is not a victory card.
This should have exactly the same effect. The rest is really just for clarity.

PS: I have a little of the same problem with novel writing.

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9712
  • Respect: +10774
    • View Profile
Re: A Saboteur variation
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2015, 07:19:11 pm »
0

Kidnap
Cost $6  Action-Attack
+$2
Each other player reveals cards from the top of his deck until revealing one costing $3 or more and discards the others. If it's an action or treasure card: set it aside and they may gain a card costing no more than $2 less than the set aside card that is not a victory card. Otherwise, return the card to the top of the player's deck.
-
Cards set aside with Kidnap return to their owner's deck at the end of the game.

Dude, even with some editing on my part, that text takes up 10 lines on a card. There's no way it will fit without a tiny, tiny typeface.

The under the line text is not needed at all. All cards set aside are still in the deck and scored at end of game. Only 2 cards have such text out of the many that can set cards aside.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

enfynet

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1691
  • Respect: +1162
    • View Profile
    • JD's Custom Clubs
Re: A Saboteur variation
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2015, 12:47:14 am »
+1

So, in going through ways to clarify a new version of Saboteur, I ended up with a card very similar to Jester.

Quote
+$2
Each other player reveals the top card of their deck. If it's an action or treasure card: set it aside and they may gain a card costing at most $2 less than the it that is not a victory card.

It only looks at the top card, to save considerable space. Half of the instructions on Saboteur is about revealing cards. But on another note, Urchin has 9 lines used.

This uses 8 lines, and I think does everything you need:
Quote
Kidnap
Cost $6  Action-Attack
+$2
Each other player reveals cards from the top of their deck until revealing an Action or Treasure costing $3 or more. He sets it aside and may gain a card costing at most $2 less than it that is not a Victory card. He discards the other revealed cards.
Logged
"I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious."
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.051 seconds with 21 queries.