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[Seprix]

I have a lot of wacky ideas. Honestly, my first game I make one day (when I figure it out, I want to co mod with someone to make sure I don't fuck up) I want to probably do bastard. :p

if it's bastard, you can't really fuck it up.

I'm not worried about balance. I'm worried about screwing up background stuff and not posting things in the thread right and I don't know the system to do it. Seriously, if someone could just tell me what to do and what to put in the beginning thread, I could do the rest no problem, though also being with a co-mod for the first game just to make sure things run smoothly, you know?

[skip wooznum]

A variation on IC that can either be revealed when the player PM's the mod, or is automatically revealed on a certain day could fix the UB-disarming power, but that's significantly stronger than a regular IC is.

I mean, you can also just add a one-shot cop. That's kind of an IC variant.

how is a one-shot cop an IC variant?

[silverspawn]

A variation on IC that can either be revealed when the player PM's the mod, or is automatically revealed on a certain day could fix the UB-disarming power, but that's significantly stronger than a regular IC is.

I mean, you can also just add a one-shot cop. That's kind of an IC variant.

how is a one-shot cop an IC variant?

he creates an IC night 1, then claims it day 2.

[skip wooznum]

A variation on IC that can either be revealed when the player PM's the mod, or is automatically revealed on a certain day could fix the UB-disarming power, but that's significantly stronger than a regular IC is.

I mean you sort of say what the problem with your solution is so I'll just say, yes I agree with that.

At it's core I think the issue is that having the UB inherit IC powers makes for an incredibly weak UB. (Teproc already pointed out the UB is an IC anyway, which I meant to point out but forgot. Thx for that.) The most direct way to fix that is to just say it doesn't inherit IC powers. (Or that UB doesn't waste its inheriting ability on a power it already has, if we're keeping with that parenthetical logic.)

[skip wooznum]

A variation on IC that can either be revealed when the player PM's the mod, or is automatically revealed on a certain day could fix the UB-disarming power, but that's significantly stronger than a regular IC is.

I mean, you can also just add a one-shot cop. That's kind of an IC variant.

how is a one-shot cop an IC variant?

he creates an IC night 1, then claims it day 2.

well maybe they're both scum

[ashersky]

There aren't that many setups where you get an IC anyway.  It's a balancing measure for the game.  Plus, if you mislynch a town PR D1, it's inherited instead.

[skip wooznum]

There aren't that many setups where you get an IC anyway. 

yes but why are there any?

[silverspawn]

There aren't that many setups where you get an IC anyway. 

yes but why are there any?

because IC's are super cool!

[UmbrageOfSnow]

A variation on IC that can either be revealed when the player PM's the mod, or is automatically revealed on a certain day could fix the UB-disarming power, but that's significantly stronger than a regular IC is.

I mean you sort of say what the problem with your solution is so I'll just say, yes I agree with that.

At it's core I think the issue is that having the UB inherit IC powers makes for an incredibly weak UB. (Teproc already pointed out the UB is an IC anyway, which I meant to point out but forgot. Thx for that.) The most direct way to fix that is to just say it doesn't inherit IC powers. (Or that UB doesn't waste its inheriting ability on a power it already has, if we're keeping with that parenthetical logic.)

The question is whether significantly stronger than an IC is too strong for town though.  And with the delayed-reveal IC the UB is worse if town is doing really well and hasn't lost any PRs yet, and better if town is doing poorly.  Plus it sticks to the similar-types theme of the letters.

[skip wooznum]

There aren't that many setups where you get an IC anyway. 

yes but why are there any?

Realizing now that you might be answering that with your next sentence, I just don't understand what it means. Whats a balancing measure?

[skip wooznum]

A variation on IC that can either be revealed when the player PM's the mod, or is automatically revealed on a certain day could fix the UB-disarming power, but that's significantly stronger than a regular IC is.

I mean you sort of say what the problem with your solution is so I'll just say, yes I agree with that.

At it's core I think the issue is that having the UB inherit IC powers makes for an incredibly weak UB. (Teproc already pointed out the UB is an IC anyway, which I meant to point out but forgot. Thx for that.) The most direct way to fix that is to just say it doesn't inherit IC powers. (Or that UB doesn't waste its inheriting ability on a power it already has, if we're keeping with that parenthetical logic.)

The question is whether significantly stronger than an IC is too strong for town though.  And with the delayed-reveal IC the UB is worse if town is doing really well and hasn't lost any PRs yet, and better if town is doing poorly.  Plus it sticks to the similar-types theme of the letters.

ah I didn't realize that was the question. Tbh I haven't really thought about it, I just assumed it was too strong for town. If that's the question, well, I'll have to think about it. And I don't know what you're getting at in the second sentence or what you're arguing for.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Let's say IC were to read "If you are still alive on Day 4 (or whatever, this is an example), the mod will publicly confirm that you are town."

If town is doing really well and only gets VTs killed and is killing scum, then that weakens the UB a bit because, as happened in this game, the UB inherits this power, which isn't so great.

If town is doing poorly and lynched or got NK'd a PR, then the UB is used up.  But there's a larger window for that than with a regular IC.

And some kind of IC is nice because it forms a similar function to mason, and all the letters stick to a theme.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

And not adding on edge-case rules is more elegant is my larger point I guess.

[Teproc]

An IC who gets revealed later is stronger than an opening-post IC, unless it's "revealed on day 10" or something crazy like that.

I think the best solution is to say UB can't inherit ICs. It's a legitimate question anyway, one that I believe ash had to rule on during the first iteration of this setup, so there's room there.

[skip wooznum]

Let's say IC were to read "If you are still alive on Day 4 (or whatever, this is an example), the mod will publicly confirm that you are town."

If town is doing really well and only gets VTs killed and is killing scum, then that weakens the UB a bit because, as happened in this game, the UB inherits this power, which isn't so great.

If town is doing poorly and lynched or got NK'd a PR, then the UB is used up.  But there's a larger window for that than with a regular IC.

And some kind of IC is nice because it forms a similar function to mason, and all the letters stick to a theme.

I understand all this. What im asking is what is the relationship, if any, between the first and second sentences in this post:

The question is whether significantly stronger than an IC is too strong for town though.  And with the delayed-reveal IC the UB is worse if town is doing really well and hasn't lost any PRs yet, and better if town is doing poorly. 

[UmbrageOfSnow]

I don't really think a delayed-reveal IC is that strong, and if town is doing well it's a bit weaker than if town is doing poorly (in the way it interacts with the Universal Backup), which negates the difference between the two versions somewhat.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

I mean it's still strictly better, but not by so much I think it makes town too strong.

[Ghacob]

I mean it's still strictly better, but not by so much I think it makes town too strong.

Ah, but edge case: Lynched D1

[skip wooznum]

I mean it's still strictly better, but not by so much I think it makes town too strong.

Ah, but edge case: Lynched D1

they wouldn't lynch him cuz he would claim. And if it gets to the he claimed was the reveal day and the mod doesn't make him IC they can just lynch him then.

[faust]

I mean it's still strictly better, but not by so much I think it makes town too strong.

Ah, but edge case: Lynched D1

they wouldn't lynch him cuz he would claim. And if it gets to the he claimed was the reveal day and the mod doesn't make him IC they can just lynch him then.

You have clearly not played enough games of mafia yet.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Also, that would allow scum to fake-claim IC.  Which seems kind of fun.

[Teproc]

I mean it's still strictly better, but not by so much I think it makes town too strong.

Ah, but edge case: Lynched D1

they wouldn't lynch him cuz he would claim. And if it gets to the he claimed was the reveal day and the mod doesn't make him IC they can just lynch him then.

You have clearly not played enough games of mafia yet.

No way you get lynched through a "the mod will claim me as IC tomorrow" claim. There's no scenario where that goes well for scum to fakeclaim (well, lylo excepted obviously).

[skip wooznum]

Also, that would allow scum to fake-claim IC.  Which seems kind of fun.

not really though. It's a fakeclaim that just gets you lynched later, seems awful. That's exactly why nobody claiming it would get lynched through the claim. And even if nobody got lynched through the claim, it's still awful for a fakeclaim cuz it gets you lynched later.

[Seprix]

So... Is there anything special I need to know in modding a Mafia game?

[skip wooznum]

I mean it's still strictly better, but not by so much I think it makes town too strong.

Ah, but edge case: Lynched D1

they wouldn't lynch him cuz he would claim. And if it gets to the he claimed was the reveal day and the mod doesn't make him IC they can just lynch him then.

You have clearly not played enough games of mafia yet.

I haven't, but I don't see how it's clear.