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[Jimmmmm]

I think he means when you called him a jerk.

[yuma]

Yuma, why are you persecuting Ashersky over calling Raerae's announced absence scummy, but you never mentioned the "case" Eevee made on me earlier that called out essentially the exact same thing - that my announcing I would be away from thread was somehow scum buying lurk time?

Fwiw, I never meant to imply you being busy in IRL was scummy, but rather that the need to announce it in such a situation felt like an emotional reaction I get when scum.

Nailed it.  Raerae's dodge is this.  Being busy, doing other things, IRL are not scummy.  The way her post called me an idiot then disappeared instead of saying why was the scummy part of it.

I'm leaving now for dinner and a birthday party but promise to respond to this absurd case against me either when we return or tomorrow (this is dependent on the amount of alcohol in my system at the time of return).  Don't kill me while I'm away, please.

Classic scum dodge.

sometimes you are a jerk. perhaps raerae, and the rest of us as well, should all plan our regular lives around your mafia cases on us. When are you free for you to suspect me, my calendar is a bit busy, but I am sure we can work out a time for you to be suspicious of me too...

Or perhaps you once again just have blinders on. Once you decide they are scum, they are scum. Case closed. If only you were right more than 37.5% correct lynch rate that you currently have going

This is clearly a personal attack, and against the golden rule of this game.  Calling me a jerk?  Laughable.

Check your stats and see how many times I have been scum and not scum.  You all love to mislynch me.  Folks asked for less self-pity, so I'm just embracing it.  I will make bold statements instead of hedging.  I will back up my reads with votes.  If that makes me a jerk, ask the mod to modkill me or replace me.  Otherwise, just play the game, man.  What did I do to you?

perhaps I misspoke (typed) I don't know if you are a jerk. Most of the time you seem like a nice person, but sometimes your posts can make you seem like a jerk. That was one of them. It wasn't necessarily meant to be a personal attack, and if you felt it was I apologize. But you do have a history of not being above using RL events as a way to build a case on someone.

In MXV I was pretty furious with you actually. It was when I had inadvertently offended Voltgloss and was trying to be extremely sincere in apologizing to him. I felt really, really horrible. And then you came in and said that my apologies were a scum maneuver to for me to gain credit. Man! That was just horrible. I didn't know at the time, but you were scum and you knew both volt and I were town. So you must have known my apologies and feeling horrible about it were sincere, but you painted it as "scum."

So perhaps a little bit of angst has carried over into this case, but I hope not. I don't think you are a jerk, but sometimes your posts make you seem that way. Mine do to. I super offended voltgloss remember and I have probably offended you know, but there you go.

[yuma]

I think he means when you called him a jerk.

I don't remember the eevee-galz interaction

[Jimmmmm]

Oh right. It was easy to miss, but I found it:

Ok. I'm finished up RVS'ing (I hope).

I'm going to be away for awhile - will have my phone on me and will still be able to post, but expect the number of posts to drop significantly.

Then you make some jokey posts that don't really do anything (you said this yourself). Then you announce you've got to go and will only be phone-posting. Now, townGalz is known for being present and active, and I would assume scumGalz would want to try to replicate that. However, you announcing that felt a little forced to me given there was no active discussion going (and short jokey posts you could also do from your phone quite conveniently if you so desired). I know I want to announce the reasons for my legit periods of no access when I'm scum, so I can for example use the time I can "lurk" without seeming suspicious on actual situations I WANT to lurk in.

[ashersky]

perhaps I misspoke (typed) I don't know if you are a jerk. Most of the time you seem like a nice person, but sometimes your posts can make you seem like a jerk. That was one of them. It wasn't necessarily meant to be a personal attack, and if you felt it was I apologize. But you do have a history of not being above using RL events as a way to build a case on someone.

In MXV I was pretty furious with you actually. It was when I had inadvertently offended Voltgloss and was trying to be extremely sincere in apologizing to him. I felt really, really horrible. And then you came in and said that my apologies were a scum maneuver to for me to gain credit. Man! That was just horrible. I didn't know at the time, but you were scum and you knew both volt and I were town. So you must have known my apologies and feeling horrible about it were sincere, but you painted it as "scum."

So perhaps a little bit of angst has carried over into this case, but I hope not. I don't think you are a jerk, but sometimes your posts make you seem that way. Mine do to. I super offended voltgloss remember and I have probably offended you know, but there you go.

I remember the MXV issue.  I apologized for that before, and do now again.  I honestly didn't mean to paint you that way in that game, but I know you felt I did, and it went that way.  I think you can understand the frustration at not being believed when sincere, or even worse, when you think scum is using it against you.  So we both know what that's like.

We're not the only ones that come across jerky.  I don't think you do that much, actually.  Me, sure.

Scum will use whatever they can to win, I guess.  I recall scum!shraeye faking not knowing the game started in one of the blitzes to good use.

I think in this game, you and me are town vs. town.

[ashersky]

I think he means when you called him a jerk.

I don't remember the eevee-galz interaction

Yep, pretty sure he remembers the other thing.

[ashersky]

Oh right. It was easy to miss, but I found it:

Ok. I'm finished up RVS'ing (I hope).

I'm going to be away for awhile - will have my phone on me and will still be able to post, but expect the number of posts to drop significantly.

Then you make some jokey posts that don't really do anything (you said this yourself). Then you announce you've got to go and will only be phone-posting. Now, townGalz is known for being present and active, and I would assume scumGalz would want to try to replicate that. However, you announcing that felt a little forced to me given there was no active discussion going (and short jokey posts you could also do from your phone quite conveniently if you so desired). I know I want to announce the reasons for my legit periods of no access when I'm scum, so I can for example use the time I can "lurk" without seeming suspicious on actual situations I WANT to lurk in.

I do think Eevee deserves to be called out for his post about Galz, at least as much as me pointing out the same thing on raerae.

[Galzria]

It's post 56. It's a non issue now, but curious that you didn't feel it was worth mentioning when you picked out something of Ashersky's that was for all intents the same.

My point is, Ashersky isn't the person to play with blinders on. It's easy to see what you want to see. It's a lot harder to see the truth.

[Jimmmmm]

I think he means when you called him a jerk.

I don't remember the eevee-galz interaction

Yep, pretty sure he remembers the other thing.

Yeah that was a bit derp.

[raerae]

I'm back from the scum conference and dinner party.  I'm going to get caught up starting from the air-tight case Ashersky has presented against me.  Even though we're 27 hours and 12 pages into this game, I'm going to respond post by post.

[raerae]

Nice amount if action for a weekend night.  Glad to come back to that.

I am okay with the Eevee wagon dying off, it served its purpose, I think, to get people talking.  Still leaning scummish on Eevs, but not enough to lynch at this point, given we have time.

So, vote: raerae.

This is an actual vote.  The tldr reason:  IIOA.

I welcome folks going back over the thread to focus on her.  I even gave her an opportunity to change.  Her posts fall into three categories: jokes, notations, and questions.

I do not subscribe to the jokes=scum theory that others do, so I pass on those.  I do think they are an easy way to up the post count, but it's clearly her personality, so whatever.

The second two, though, are much more scum-style postings.  When all you do is note other people's posts/opinions/votes without giving your own opinions and votes, and when you continually ask questions of other instead of answering those questions yourself, your are more likely to be mafia.  This is because you seem engaged but never actually have to take a stand.  The only time raerae engaged on a topic was when I said she was scummy sounding.

So that's the case on raerae, and is enough for me to vote.

Gave me the opportunity to change?  Gave me the opportunity to change?  Sweetheart, I don't need your permission or encouragement to change anything.  Additionally, how dumb and scummy does it look for me to suddenly change my snarky joke-y self?  I will not change because you find my play offensive.  No chance in the seven hells of that happening.

I rarely take post count into account.  It's interesting when people post them but I don't care enough to do a post count myself.  If I don't care enough about it to make cases on other people about it, do you really, really think I think about it in regards to myself?  No.  Just no.

I do ask people questions.  That is how I form reads on people.  I ask them questions and analyze how they answer.  I generate conversation. 

That is just a blatant lie.  I stood up against the Eevee lynch in regards to both Jimmmmm and Robz' arguments.  Drew attention to Jimmmmm being snippy with Lio.  Sure, I haven't voted, haven't said XX IS TOWN and YY IS SCUM yet because I don't have strong enough reads on anybody to go crazy town with crappy arguments voting everybody who rubs me the wrong way.

[raerae]

ashersky, I think you just described raerae's town playstyle and voted her over it.

Jimmm, what do you think of me now, after you've seen my responses to your case and also heard what other people think of it?

I like the mom saloon case.

Maybe, but isn't that scum's plan?  To play like their town selves?

You can officially never use meta arguments again.  If you say someone is playing like town that also means they're scum trying to play like town but if they aren't playing like town then they're scum.  So in ashersky world, everybody is scum.

[Jimmmmm]

(I'm thinking of Lekkit in Major Arcana II Buffy Mafia)

Whoops, FTFM.

[raerae]

Man, read my post again.

IIOA is a thing.  You are saying give her a pass because that's just her.  I refuse.  She can start offering analysis and taking stands if she's town.  I am.  Doesn't matter on D1 if she is wrong or right.  It's about contributing.  She's contributed as much as invisiyuma, but with ten times the posts.

Stop giving me permission to do things.  That is awful way to play this game.  It is condescending and presumptuous.  It is an unattractive quality and I would be very turned off to this game if I were not such a stubborn person who thrives off proving people wrong when they think they know better how to be me than I do.

[raerae]

Lynch mafia, not scum, but okay. That's actually ok, I would just make it more clear you are voting her to discourage her from playing like she has, not because you think her playing like that makes her more likely to be scum.

Eevee, I find you to be a reasonable person, if I were to suddenly stop being me, wouldn't I immediately be jumped for not being a funnier, more attractive, version of shraeye?

[Jimmmmm]

ashersky, I think you just described raerae's town playstyle and voted her over it.

Jimmm, what do you think of me now, after you've seen my responses to your case and also heard what other people think of it?

I like the mom saloon case.

Maybe, but isn't that scum's plan?  To play like their town selves?

You can officially never use meta arguments again.  If you say someone is playing like town that also means they're scum trying to play like town but if they aren't playing like town then they're scum.  So in ashersky world, everybody is scum.

I'm not sure whether I buy into ash's case on you, but "She's acting like Town raerae so clearly she's scum" isn't it. I think what he meant by that was that just because you're acting like Town raerae doesn't necessarily make you Town. His actual case had more to it than that.

Personally I'm finding you particularly hard to read because so far you've always come across pretty much the same to me, that is no-nonsense, won't take crap from anyone, not afraid to be a bit condescending, and generally more reactive to what people say than trying to build cases. And you've been Town twice, and mislynched the only time you were lynchable. I think your playstyle might generally go against you when you're Town (especially while you're still relatively new) because you're probably more likely than average to be mislynched, but it might help you when you're scum because you can do the same things and people might just say "Oh that's just raerae."

[raerae]

Final comment: @raerae, why are you uncomfortable to be linked with shraeye?  I mean you guys post over the same time frame (which is reasonable), and have some level of conversation between yourselves.  You've also taken the same (or very similar stances) regarding, for example, the contradiction case, and Ashersky's lack of case.  So, at the moment you both kind of blend.

I just want to make sure my thoughts are being seen as separate from his.  I don't want us to get lumped in together because of IRL stuff.  Yes, we say some of the same things and agree sometimes but that isn't all the time and I want to make very sure that we are seen as two different people.

[raerae]

I'm leaving now for dinner and a birthday party but promise to respond to this absurd case against me either when we return or tomorrow (this is dependent on the amount of alcohol in my system at the time of return).  Don't kill me while I'm away, please.

Classic scum dodge.

You're an ass.  I'll submit my eating/sleeping/shitting schedule to you by 9am tomorrow.  Please let me know when it has been approved.

[raerae]

Uh, I really don 't think ashersky is scum. I think he's making a lot of sense. His post about the Eevee case serving its purpose really resonated with me. And I totally get what he's saying about raerae.

I'm trying not to rely on metas as much, because they haven't served me too well lately. I like what ashersky has to say, Is ee where it's coming from, so I don't think he's scummy. So I don't like this case.

I also don't like that it's coming from lurker extraordinaire Glooble.

This whole post confused me.  Here is what I got from it: ashersky isn't scum, he's making sense, you like what he has to say but you don't like his case?  Hopefully you've clarified this in another post I'll read soon, if not, can you explain it?  Sorry if I'm just misunderstanding but I need some clarification.

[raerae]

I'm leaving now for dinner and a birthday party but promise to respond to this absurd case against me either when we return or tomorrow (this is dependent on the amount of alcohol in my system at the time of return).  Don't kill me while I'm away, please.

Classic scum dodge.

sometimes you are a jerk. perhaps raerae, and the rest of us as well, should all plan our regular lives around your mafia cases on us. When are you free for you to suspect me, my calendar is a bit busy, but I am sure we can work out a time for you to be suspicious of me too...

Or perhaps you once again just have blinders on. Once you decide they are scum, they are scum. Case closed. If only you were right more than 37.5% correct lynch rate that you currently have going

WARNING! FLUFF POST! 

Yuma, you make my heart happy.

[Jimmmmm]

Uh, I really don 't think ashersky is scum. I think he's making a lot of sense. His post about the Eevee case serving its purpose really resonated with me. And I totally get what he's saying about raerae.

I'm trying not to rely on metas as much, because they haven't served me too well lately. I like what ashersky has to say, Is ee where it's coming from, so I don't think he's scummy. So I don't like this case.

I also don't like that it's coming from lurker extraordinaire Glooble.

This whole post confused me.  Here is what I got from it: ashersky isn't scum, he's making sense, you like what he has to say but you don't like his case?  Hopefully you've clarified this in another post I'll read soon, if not, can you explain it?  Sorry if I'm just misunderstanding but I need some clarification.

He didn't like Glooble's case on ash.

[jotheonah]

Ok, seriously cool the name-calling or I will pull this mafia game over. Golden rule is in effect. You're all better than this.

/modscold

[raerae]

In rereading raerae, I disagree with one basic point about ashersky's case.  I don't think that raerae's questions were IIoA.
When she asks if ashersky is openly sheeping Jimmmm's Eevee-contradiction case, that's analysis not information.  She may be essentially offering you an out in the same moment that she criticizes your play, but that doesn't mean it isn't a criticism of what she sees as scummy behavior.

However, she did take a while to finally comment on the contradiction case.  Now, there are two parts to this:
1. It was after ashersky's "coaching".  Which was more of a criticism of the "prove it" post than anything.  In fact he even notes that she can ask questions.  At no point in his "coaching" do I see him criticize raerae's lack of taking stands as the scummy part, rather her "giving orders".  I (personally) think this significantly weakens the point that she only took a stand after being criticized for looking scummy.

2. It was just after shraeye had commented on it to the same effect.  He claimed to not have seen the contradiction argument.  Now, maybe raerae didn't see it either?  But she had quoted it (in particular when she questioned ashersky's sheeping of it).  However, she only took a stand on "it's clearly not a contradiction" after shraeye already did.

The end result here, is that I'm finding raerae a little scummy there.  I think this largely played into my previous analysis where I mentioned the intertwining of shraeye and raerae.

I'll also note posts at 215/216.  In this instance raerae has the same reaction as shraeye within like 11 minutes of each other.
Personally I was inclined to view both of these as more raerae/shraeye thinking similarly.  BUT, they are the only stands she's taken where she didn't ask questions.  AND, as noted she had plenty of time to have that reaction to the contradiction case before shraeye did, but did not.  I could see a raerae is scum shraeye is town situation here...I'm not sold, but I'm happy to put raerae into the minor suspicion category for now.

I can see your point but just want to give you guys some background information before you put too many eggs in this basket.  Shraeye and I are dating but we live 19 hours away from each other.  We don't get a ton of time to be together in person and we are right now.  When we are in the same place at the same time we will almost always be online at the same time and not online at the same time.  Right now is a different story as we are playing Pandemic with TheMunch.  As I posted before, shraeye and I think similarly so if I posted something similar to what he did minutes apart that's just one of us reading/typing faster than the other.

[Eevee]

Lynch mafia, not scum, but okay. That's actually ok, I would just make it more clear you are voting her to discourage her from playing like she has, not because you think her playing like that makes her more likely to be scum.

Eevee, I find you to be a reasonable person, if I were to suddenly stop being me, wouldn't I immediately be jumped for not being a funnier, more attractive, version of shraeye?

For sure, yes. Again, I dont agree with how ashersky described your play or with the conclusion he drew from that description. He might be right though, I dont have a town read on you either. All I know is that I'm satisfied with your contributions and think you play like you did in buffy and the latest blitz, maybe with a tad more confidence I assume stems from the experience you've gotten.

[shraeye]

Lynch mafia, not scum, but okay. That's actually ok, I would just make it more clear you are voting her to discourage her from playing like she has, not because you think her playing like that makes her more likely to be scum.

Eevee, I find you to be a reasonable person, if I were to suddenly stop being me, wouldn't I immediately be jumped for not being a funnier, more attractive, version of shraeye?

Hah, this is funny.  And attractive.  Oh raerae.