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[ashersky]

Also...for old time's sake...

I have a plan!

[pingpongsam]

Vote: pingpongsam, no way that guy isn't scum.

[ashersky]

vote: faust

That's not part of the plan.

[Witherweaver]

So I have been gone about a year...

Anything I need to know? Anything change? Who is still around, anyone else disappear? has this setup been played since raerae and I were destroyed day1/2 long, long ago...?

I'm always Town.  That's about it.

[yuma]

Also...for old time's sake...

I have a plan!

If it involves mass claiming from the very beginning I am all for it.

I ran a couple of simulations and I think in general mass claiming will be beneficial for town.

I dont' think it will be game breaking or setup solving (obviously the guy who designed this setup designed it too well for that) but it does put mafia in an awkward position from the beginning and forces them to commit to a role early on.

There are obviously risks, but I think in generally they are small and are probably worth it for the payback.

[gkrieg13]

vote:WW
He is not always town.

[yuma]

vote: faust

That's not part of the plan.

think you mean vote: PPS

Cause faust hasn't posted yet... and selfvoting. I have changed a little bit in my absence, but I still have thing about self voting

[pingpongsam]

but I still have thing about self voting

I know, right? That's why I voted for him too.

[Witherweaver]

I vote PPS claims first!

[pingpongsam]

I refuse to claim.

[yuma]

I refuse to claim.

BUT WHY? It will be fun!

Seriously. Have we ever had a game where we just mass claimed out of the gates. Conventional thinking has always been that it is bad. But do we have any empirical data to back this up or just theoretics?

[pingpongsam]

I refuse to claim.

BUT WHY? It will be fun!

Seriously. Have we ever had a game where we just mass claimed out of the gates. Conventional thinking has always been that it is bad. But do we have any empirical data to back this up or just theoretics?

Because the last time I claimed VT on day 1 they mislynched me.

[Awaclus]

Vote: silverspawn

He is clearly scum here.

[yuma]

I refuse to claim.

BUT WHY? It will be fun!

Seriously. Have we ever had a game where we just mass claimed out of the gates. Conventional thinking has always been that it is bad. But do we have any empirical data to back this up or just theoretics?

Because the last time I claimed VT on day 1 they mislynched me.

Ha ha... I remember that. That was pretty funny.

But what I am suggesting is a coordinated claim instead of just jumping the gun without the go-ahead of the town at large. I don't think people should just claim willy-nilly.

[Awaclus]

Well, massclaim seems to hardly ever work out in this setup even when you do it later when more information is available. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

[pingpongsam]

This is how it works. If you're scum you lie and claim VT. If you're VT you tell the truth and claim VT. If you are a Town PR you hide yourself by claiming VT.

So we all massclaim VT and that is so informative and helpful that Town just wins the game D1.

[chairs]

Hello.

What the hell with the flavor?

It's silverspawn.

I'm not sure what the idea of Emmure as Mafia was about though.

[yuma]

Well, massclaim seems to hardly ever work out in this setup even when you do it later when more information is available. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

So the big benefits to me for mass claiming early (not necessarily mass claiming in general later as that is a separate issue) are:

1. force mafia into making a decision early on about what they should claim. This pigeon-holes them into a role that they can't escape from. If they claim a PR they are stuck with that for the rest of the game and the setup or later night results may /out them in their lie.

2. it can cause the pool of potential mafia suspects to be shrunk. Right now, if everyone that is town removes themselves from the pool we are looking for 3 mafia in 11 players. claiming will generally create two separate pools (1 for PRs and 1 for VTs). Within the PR pool there will often be confirmed town players (Masons for example or the UB) and often ends up looking something like--depending on what the mafia fake claim, which of course we don't know what they will do (1 mafia out of 3) for the VTs it can end up looking something more like looking for 2 mafia out of 7. This numbers can go up and down and sometimes aren't any better but there are scenarios where the lynch pool is reduced to help the lynches be more likely to be correct

Of course there are downsides, PRs being outed without using their role. Really this only applies to cops (and to a lesser extent docs) because cops are the only PRs that require their night action to be disclosed at the start of the next day. So a Vig or RB (1-shots especially) can still use their roles at night (of course this doesn't account for the potential of mafia having a roleblocker.

So basically I think the idea isn't to figure out which setup we are in. But to instead shrink the lynch pool down to a reasonable size which is a boon especially on the early days. In my opinion giving up a PR for a mafia lynch day1 is a worthwhile trade, which while not guaranteed (on both ends) would be the goal and risk.

[yuma]

This is how it works. If you're scum you lie and claim VT. If you're VT you tell the truth and claim VT. If you are a Town PR you hide yourself by claiming VT.

So we all massclaim VT and that is so informative and helpful that Town just wins the game D1.

If you are a town PR why would you hide as claiming VT? that would be silly.

And if all the mafia claimed VT that would be great! We would just lynch VTs and the pool size would be 3 mafia in 9 instead of 3 mafia in 12! Awesome!

[chairs]

This is how it works. If you're scum you lie and claim VT. If you're VT you tell the truth and claim VT. If you are a Town PR you hide yourself by claiming VT.

So we all massclaim VT and that is so informative and helpful that Town just wins the game D1.

If you are a town PR why would you hide as claiming VT? that would be silly.

And if all the mafia claimed VT that would be great! We would just lynch VTs and the pool size would be 3 mafia in 9 instead of 3 mafia in 12! Awesome!

Scumslip.

The only people who could have an assumption regarding PR count at this time are scum.

vote: yuma

[Witherweaver]

This is how it works. If you're scum you lie and claim VT. If you're VT you tell the truth and claim VT. If you are a Town PR you hide yourself by claiming VT.

So we all massclaim VT and that is so informative and helpful that Town just wins the game D1.

I'm a VT

[pingpongsam]

This is how it works. If you're scum you lie and claim VT. If you're VT you tell the truth and claim VT. If you are a Town PR you hide yourself by claiming VT.

So we all massclaim VT and that is so informative and helpful that Town just wins the game D1.

If you are a town PR why would you hide as claiming VT? that would be silly.

And if all the mafia claimed VT that would be great! We would just lynch VTs and the pool size would be 3 mafia in 9 instead of 3 mafia in 12! Awesome!

Okay, so clearly scum is going to claim PR (at least 1 of them), so the strategy has to become lynch claimed PRs since the pool from which there are obvious liars to hit is likely much smaller. Meanwhile the scum who claimed VT know which PR to kill when it is most beneficial to do so otherwise hitting VTs until the time is right.

[yuma]

huh?

[pingpongsam]

This is how it works. If you're scum you lie and claim VT. If you're VT you tell the truth and claim VT. If you are a Town PR you hide yourself by claiming VT.

So we all massclaim VT and that is so informative and helpful that Town just wins the game D1.

If you are a town PR why would you hide as claiming VT? that would be silly.

And if all the mafia claimed VT that would be great! We would just lynch VTs and the pool size would be 3 mafia in 9 instead of 3 mafia in 12! Awesome!

Scumslip.

The only people who could have an assumption regarding PR count at this time are scum.

vote: yuma

See, I don't even know how to tell if this is true or not.

[yuma]

This is how it works. If you're scum you lie and claim VT. If you're VT you tell the truth and claim VT. If you are a Town PR you hide yourself by claiming VT.

So we all massclaim VT and that is so informative and helpful that Town just wins the game D1.

If you are a town PR why would you hide as claiming VT? that would be silly.

And if all the mafia claimed VT that would be great! We would just lynch VTs and the pool size would be 3 mafia in 9 instead of 3 mafia in 12! Awesome!

Okay, so clearly scum is going to claim PR (at least 1 of them), so the strategy has to become lynch claimed PRs since the pool from which there are obvious liars to hit is likely much smaller. Meanwhile the scum who claimed VT know which PR to kill when it is most beneficial to do so otherwise hitting VTs until the time is right.

It doesn't have to become anything. We could still lynch from among the VTs...