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[Robz888]

Claiming VT is anti-town? how?

The mafia know not to Nightkill you. That can shoot someone else and have a better chance of hitting PR.

[Robz888]

Claiming VT is anti-town? how?

The mafia know not to Nightkill you. That can shoot someone else and have a better chance of hitting PR.

They can*

[Eevee]

Even if I dont think morg is playing scummy, taking one for the f.ds-mafiacommunity and policylynching him is not an out of the realm idea and I do see town-robz possibly proposing it (as well as scum robz ofc). But we should probably let the new guys enjoy him first, maybe punish him in some 20 player behemoth where day1 lynch is more random anyways.

His insanity was more extreme this time. He did 2 extremely anti-town things right off the bat in his first post.

He is showing improvement though, like this:

Robz is being scummy, like voting for me, but I'm not ready to vote for him yet. Rather, Unvote. I would also like to hear ashersky explain why he so quickly voted for me.

Have you ever heard of Morgrim not being ready to vote for someone before?

Also, inbetween saying "grmph....grrr... *frown*" and "I'm VT Vote: Me" he also tries to scumhunt some.

If I ever were to truly get behind a policy lynch, I think it would have to be really close to the deadline with no realistic wagon and/or a two scum team game. Losing most of the information from the wagon on top of losing a townie would hurt quite a bit here.

[Eevee]

But I agree that we're being too noisy and not letting the newbies do enough stuff, so I apologize that. I'll try not to snap at everybody for awhile. The Morgrim thing, and then to a lesser extent the O thing, and of course my name rising to the top of it all, REALLY rubbed me the wrong way.

I dont think you are being too noisy, quite the contrary, posting is your only hope of clearing your name in my eyes. (Here is where I'd suggest you to start compiling some ridiculous IIoA-posts, but, unlike the scout joke, this one is starting to get old.)

Oh and morgrim I meant no ill with those questions. It's just a little weird to go from selfvoting to starting to legitimately scumhunt and wonder why people wind up voting for you (see what I almost did there?).

[Morgrim7]

Claiming VT is anti-town? how?

The mafia know not to Nightkill you. That can shoot someone else and have a better chance of hitting PR.

I see.

[Jorbles]

I think O made some pretty good points against Robz, but we've got time. I'm interested in hearing from Frisk on why he is voting for Robz. At the time of initial vote it looked like a random vote, but now that it's still sticking around I want a bit more explanation. Presumably some of the points people have made have resonated with him, but I want to read it from his typing hands.

[yuma]

Vote Count 1-5

Robz888 (3): Captain_Frisk, O, ashersky
Morgrim7 (1): Robz888

Not voting (5): Eevee, Cuzz, Jorbles, Morgrim7, GeoLib

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch

Lynch deadline: Monday, August 27, at noon forum time (EDT)

[Morgrim7]

Lets not put another vote on Robz until we are sure we want to lynch him. L-1 is dangerous.

[Eevee]

I think O made some pretty good points against Robz, but we've got time. I'm interested in hearing from Frisk on why he is voting for Robz. At the time of initial vote it looked like a random vote, but now that it's still sticking around I want a bit more explanation. Presumably some of the points people have made have resonated with him, but I want to read it from his typing hands.

Frisk said elsewhere he would be catching up with all his games and trying to post something substantive tonight, so you might get your wish soon.

And morgrim is right, especially so because he isn't voting yet himself.

[Robz888]

Lets not put another vote on Robz until we are sure we want to lynch him. L-1 is dangerous.

How dare you.

[Captain_Frisk]

Yeah - Unvote

I'm not up to speed in this game - and my vote was indeed totally random.  I'm still making my rounds - and I may get summoned away.  Might not get to this game tonight.

[Morgrim7]

Yeah - Unvote

I'm not up to speed in this game - and my vote was indeed totally random.  I'm still making my rounds - and I may get summoned away.  Might not get to this game tonight.

keep the wagon alive, people

[O]

Yeah - Unvote

I'm not up to speed in this game - and my vote was indeed totally random.  I'm still making my rounds - and I may get summoned away.  Might not get to this game tonight.

keep the wagon alive, people

Why don't you help by voting for him, Morgrim?

[GeoLib]

The case for a Morgrim Policy-Lynch as a last resort:

I think that we should keep scumhunting, but that if we don't get anywhere we should policy-lynch Morgrim. The anti-town behavior right off the bat was pretty appalling. I still don't buy O's reasoning that

Morgrim is going to scumslip if he's scum.

You guys have all said that Morgrim hasn't played scum before, so how could you know what scumgrim (morscum?) would do? Best case scenario he's scum relying on his old weird-playstyle meta to keep him alive (I'd say odds are about the same as they are for a random person. Maybe a little better). Worst case scenario, he's a PR for some reason lying and claiming VT (odds of this seem low, but you never can tell with Morgrim, I guess). Most likely he's a VT playing very anti-town. As we are most likely going to lynch a VT anyway (both probability and Eevee's grim analysis of f.ds mafia's success in the past suggest this), might as well lynch one who's playing anti-town.

All this being said, I agree with Eevee that we should hold off on a policy-lynch until we're sure we can't find more probable scum. I just think we should hold a Morgrim lynch as a reserve.




Anyway. Back to scumhunting!

I think O's case against Robz seems plausible, so I'd put Robz as slightly scummier than your average 2/9ths. OTOH I think that the single-mindedness with which O is pursuing Robz shows a certainty that I don't think any townie could have. Only scum know exactly who the scum are... So that puts O as slightly scummy in my books as well.

I'd be interested to hear Frisk's opinion on things, as all I've gleaned from his posts so far is that he agrees that Morgrim's behavior is anti-town. Looks like we might not get this tonight though.

Anyone else got some reads they'd like to share? Jorbles, whom do you think is scum? Cuzz, what about you?

[O]

I think O's case against Robz seems plausible, so I'd put Robz as slightly scummier than your average 2/9ths. OTOH I think that the single-mindedness with which O is pursuing Robz shows a certainty that I don't think any townie could have. Only scum know exactly who the scum are... So that puts O as slightly scummy in my books as well.

If I'm scum bussing scum (protip: I'm not) then shut up and take your free scumkill in Robz.

If I'm scum tunneling this hard on a townie.. well that's rather terrible scum play.

[GeoLib]

I think O's case against Robz seems plausible, so I'd put Robz as slightly scummier than your average 2/9ths. OTOH I think that the single-mindedness with which O is pursuing Robz shows a certainty that I don't think any townie could have. Only scum know exactly who the scum are... So that puts O as slightly scummy in my books as well.

If I'm scum bussing scum (protip: I'm not) then shut up and take your free scumkill in Robz.

If I'm scum tunneling this hard on a townie.. well that's rather terrible scum play.

I didn't mean you were "scum bussing scum," that seems like a terrible scum play D1. I just meant it's odd to me that you can be so sure about a Robz lynch with only the evidence we've got. Not that it's bad evidence. I just don't see how you're so sure.

[O]

I think O's case against Robz seems plausible, so I'd put Robz as slightly scummier than your average 2/9ths. OTOH I think that the single-mindedness with which O is pursuing Robz shows a certainty that I don't think any townie could have. Only scum know exactly who the scum are... So that puts O as slightly scummy in my books as well.

If I'm scum bussing scum (protip: I'm not) then shut up and take your free scumkill in Robz.

If I'm scum tunneling this hard on a townie.. well that's rather terrible scum play.

I didn't mean you were "scum bussing scum," that seems like a terrible scum play D1. I just meant it's odd to me that you can be so sure about a Robz lynch with only the evidence we've got. Not that it's bad evidence. I just don't see how you're so sure.

I've played enough games with Robz.

[Cuzz]

I think O's case against Robz seems plausible, so I'd put Robz as slightly scummier than your average 2/9ths. OTOH I think that the single-mindedness with which O is pursuing Robz shows a certainty that I don't think any townie could have. Only scum know exactly who the scum are... So that puts O as slightly scummy in my books as well.

If I'm scum bussing scum (protip: I'm not) then shut up and take your free scumkill in Robz.

If I'm scum tunneling this hard on a townie.. well that's rather terrible scum play.

Why would that be such a terrible play? Certainly scum want townies to get lynched, right? Do you just mean that this would be such an obvious scum move that only a great fool would play as such?

I feel like the problem with a lot of these arguments is that everyone knows how the game works, and everyone can lie. Scum or not, everyone's motivation at the moment is not to get lynched. So everyone tries to argue that they're not scum. If it's a bogus argument, well that's suspicious. If it's a convincing argument, maybe it'll make people believe you, but then aha, that's exactly the kind of argument scum would want to make at this stage of the game, so that's also suspicious.

[Robz888]

Morgrim's likely pre-game convo with scumbuddy:

Morgrim: "I'm going to be batshit insane right from the beginning, and get away with the Morgrim Insanity Defense all game! As long as I stay consistent with all the games where I was town, I won't be suspected! After all, Robz always says that crazy Morgrim is town Morgrim." Then he overplayed things by being too crazy. That wasn't crazy Morgrim, that was Morgrim trying to act like crazy Morgrim.

Now, did O swoop in to dramatically rescue his scumbuddy? Sure looks like that to me.

[Jorbles]

Anyone else got some reads they'd like to share? Jorbles, whom do you think is scum? Cuzz, what about you?

I don't have super original opinions right now, but that's because we don't really have a lot to go on, at this point. Robz's rush for a Morgrim lynch does strike me as scummy, but not without merit. (Morgrim's rush into the game made a lynch on him seem like a great idea.) His call for lynching a noob, get's my hackles up, but that might just be because I am one. His early game strat does seem to imply that he's trying to throw a bunch of lynch possibilities out there and see if any of them stick.

I still don't like O's early game lurking, but his analysis of Robz's play does seem to be the best thing we have to go on at this point in the game. And the points he makes are good ones. I don't fault him for his current read on Robz.

Morgrim's play seemed crazy when he showed up, but he has since calmed down. I don't know, I could support a policy lynch on him if we get close to deadline if we get deadlocked, but at this point I'd like to observe him for a longer portion of the game. Robz's most recent point of the preplanned Morgrim Insanity Defense could be plausible, but seems speculative at this point. I agree that his playstyle could just be a meta game thing to mask his scumminess, but I have no reason to think so yet.

Geolib seems to be playing pretty cautiously, which I like. Slight town vibe here, but I guess it could be a good mask.

Ditto for Eevee.

Captain_Frisk hasn't been around as much as I'd like a player to be, but this isn't inherently scummy. He is playing multiple games, and admits he is behind on all of them. This could be a great meta strategy if he were scum in all of them, but the odds of that are small. Basically I've got no read on him at this point.

ashersky has been willing to leap onto numerous wagons, which could be scummy or could just be how ash plays. Very slight scum read here, but I'm not even close to willing to vote for ash.

Cuzz has also been willing to leap onto wagons, but expressed regret and unvoted when a call for more thought was made. This strikes me as more inexperience than scum play.

So that's what I think of everyone at this point in the game.

[GeoLib]

Morgrim's likely pre-game convo with scumbuddy:

Morgrim: "I'm going to be batshit insane right from the beginning, and get away with the Morgrim Insanity Defense all game! As long as I stay consistent with all the games where I was town, I won't be suspected! After all, Robz always says that crazy Morgrim is town Morgrim." Then he overplayed things by being too crazy. That wasn't crazy Morgrim, that was Morgrim trying to act like crazy Morgrim.

Now, did O swoop in to dramatically rescue his scumbuddy? Sure looks like that to me.

Your Morgrim analysis was basically the same thing I was thinking. The whole "hmph...grrrr...  " thing seemed a little forced, like Morgrim was acting Morgrim.

On the other hand, your accusation of O is sort of OMGUS...

[Eevee]

Morgrim playing like this every time is just terrible terrible meta btw. Just imagine if he were to get a town power role in the next game..

Morgrim, I think you should try to be a little less erratic in your next game to avoid that unfortunate problem. 

[GeoLib]

What if he's just been playing this meta every game just so that when he does draw scum he can still act however he wants and survive...? 

Morgrim: King of Meta-gaming

[Eevee]

What if he's just been playing this meta every game just so that when he does draw scum he can still act however he wants and survive...? 

Morgrim: King of Meta-gaming

a) he has never survived
b) what if he got a town power role. dying early as one is bad, having to claim it early to survive is bad.

[GeoLib]

What if he's just been playing this meta every game just so that when he does draw scum he can still act however he wants and survive...? 

Morgrim: King of Meta-gaming

a) he has never survived
b) what if he got a town power role. dying early as one is bad, having to claim it early to survive is bad.

Well so much for that theory. Also, I was about 70% joking