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[ashersky]

You think it's Eevee/ashersky, then?

So you think it's me and Frisk then, Jorbles?

I think Jorbles is saying Frisk + Eevee is the most likely, trying to move the follow-up action away from him.  If he's agreed that Frisk is scum, he's either town or willing to go all the way in lynching his partner to try and survive.

That said, I think how we play D4 will depend on who the remaining mafia NKs after we lynch Frisk today.

[Cuzz]

I would not read too much into Jorbles supporting a frisk lynch. He knows if he looks like he's defending frisk the game is over.

[Eevee]

I would not read too much into Jorbles supporting a frisk lynch. He knows if he looks like he's defending frisk the game is over.

Obviously. And he clearly hasn't been pushing to make it happen.

[Captain_Frisk]

4. Asher + Jorbles
5. Asher + Volt

Someone has pointed out that #4 is impossible, as me telling the truth (I am) means Jorbles is town (he is)

So that leaves #5.  Volt put a vote on Asher during day 2 crazytimes, and Asher voted for Morgrim (3rd vote) on day 1 during the RobZ shenanigans, and again as 3rd vote prior to the replacement.  I could see myself pulling a "morgrim replacement" as a legit scumteam play, but Asher and Morgrim coming up with this seems unlikely.  My least likely scumpair for Asher.

[Voltaire]

Well, I'm checking out for about 24 hours. Tipsy times have started on Friday. Good luck scumhunting, all.

[Captain_Frisk]

6. Captain_Frisk + Cuzz
7. Captain_Frisk + eevee
8. Captain_Frisk + Jorbles
9. Captain_Frisk + Volt

Attempted thoughts on objectivity on me and my (alleged pairs). 

#6 - Minor spat on day 2 accidentally snowballs into a CF lynch and Cuzz is forced to stick with it.  Cuzz pretends to believe CF claims at the start of day 3, but is swept away with the rest of townies and forced to vote.  Nearing lynch - CF attempts to divert to Cuzz - who is one of quieter folks - hoping for some town credit if he's successful, and putting a shield up on Cuzz if he isn't.  Plausible.

#7 - Attempted to set up the town for a town v. town lynch decision

Everyone: Would you be willing to vote for ashersky or GeoLib, and why? Do you agree with me that it has to be one of the two?

Unfortunately, it fizzled, and they got wise to CF.  Captain Frisk's desperation claim was an effort to out 2 power roles, it looked like we might get away with it, and then were foiled by Asher's unwillingness to actually realize that his role actually meant that CF was lying.  Plausible - but eevee has been much more aggressively anti frisk than Cuzz.

#8 - Jorbles
Have not voted for eachother until Day 3 Asher claim.  Frisk attempted to FoS him (#640) day 2 for mega lurking and prod eevee to look at him (#608).  Frisk claims he investigated and cleared Jorbles.  If scum rolecop (eevee's thought) - then Frisk needs to be confident that Jorbles wasn't jailkept.  This means that Frisk either rolecopped Jorbles, or Jorbles did the kill.  This is WIFOM - Frisk's "investigation" on Jorbles could be scum trying to get a townie supporter, or trying to provide cover for his scum partner. 

#9 - Volt
Frisk has not voted for Morgrim or Volt - and has defended him multiple times - despite being under attack from him after the replacement.  Morgrim did not vote for Frisk.  Volt has - and has been aggressively pushing the lynch since his replacement. 

Obviously - at this point if I'm scum - my partner has to be willing to buss me - and hope that they do so convincingly that they obtain obv. town status.  Cuzz and Jorbles are the in the worst positions here.  Asher and Volt are in the best. 

From a neutral observer - after watching CF's disastrous stint as scum in M6, I'd probably lean toward Jorbles, maybe Cuzz.

[Captain_Frisk]

Well, I'm checking out for about 24 hours. Tipsy times have started on Friday. Good luck scumhunting, all.

btw - I am going to a brewfest tomorrow.  Will try not to play any kickball.

[Captain_Frisk]

All right guys - so here's the biggest problem with the Frisk is scum philosophy.  Why wouldn't I have claimed guilty on someone?  Either on town and go for the win, or as a longer term play - investigate my own teammate and say that he's scum?

Here's what I think happened:

My claim scared Asher and his scummate.  Nobody wants to be seen lynching the cop - especially when there was no case (I'M STILL WAITING FOR THIS PEOPLE).  Asher semi soft claims - not hard enough to be explicitly outted as liar...

He and his mate know that he looks the scummiest now - and that if they aren't able to drive a lynch against me - he's the backup.  My claim was starting to get some traction - so they dropped into the backup plan: the counter claim.  Counter claiming cop is harder because you need to know who was and was not jailkept, but claiming doctor still conflicts me - and there's no way to validate his behavior.  We've been calling him a n00b for a while, so he is just rolling with it. 

The town is already up in a frenzy about me, this just pushes it over the edge.  He's going to be in trouble tomorrow, but he has a ~60% (jailkeeper only stops a kill with a hit on either the killer or the target - so 2/5) of winning right now if he takes me out + whatever % chance of winning even he is outed as scum.  If we played politely - no lynched and gave another night for jailkeeping and investigation - I think the overall chance of winning is reduced.  This play is aggressive, and I like it.  Of course - I'm also a believer in going for it on 4th and short in almost every situation. 

[Captain_Frisk]

Inner break and hen I'll respond to specific questions.

[Eevee]

Rule question to mods: Would a jailkept player give out an investigation result?
Frisk seems to assume no, but it could just as well be yes I think?

@Frisk
Saying ashersky semi-softclaimed is ridiculous. He was dropping hints all day 2.

If ashersky is fakeclaiming, it must have been planned in advance with his team mate. How on earth could the team mate have missed ash not knowing the setup?
Upon claiming, you said town jailkeeper could prove you are what you claim you are. That was a blatant lie. Why did you lie?

All the evidence points to you. You surviving the night, there being a plausible pair for you, ashersky's confusion with the setup and the way you forgot to mention the rolecop-possibility to name the biggest things.

[Voltgloss]

Rule question to mods: Would a jailkept player give out an investigation result?

- If a Cop or Rolecop investigates Player X; and
- A Jailkeeper jailkeeps Player X that same night; then
- The Cop or Rolecop does receive an investigation result on Player X.

Being jailkept has two, and only two, ramifications: (1) the jailkept player's night action, if any, has no effect; and (2) the jailkept player is protected from death.  If you are jailkept, and an investigative role also targets you that night, the investigator WILL get a result.

[Captain_Frisk]

Rule question to mods: Would a jailkept player give out an investigation result?
Frisk seems to assume no, but it could just as well be yes I think?

@Frisk
Saying ashersky semi-softclaimed is ridiculous. He was dropping hints all day 2.

If ashersky is fakeclaiming, it must have been planned in advance with his team mate. How on earth could the team mate have missed ash not knowing the setup?
Upon claiming, you said town jailkeeper could prove you are what you claim you are. That was a blatant lie. Why did you lie?

All the evidence points to you. You surviving the night, there being a plausible pair for you, ashersky's confusion with the setup and the way you forgot to mention the rolecop-possibility to name the biggest things.

Didn't consider rolecop possibility until you pointed it out.

[Captain_Frisk]

You really think I'd be so careless as to intentionally lie on something verifiably false?  Please. Does your significant other know about this hard on you have for me?

[Eevee]

You really think I'd be so careless as to intentionally lie on something verifiably false?  Please. Does your significant other know about this hard on you have for me?

If you had no choice? Or hoped the town full of noobs wouldn't realize it?

You are a rational guy. Do you honestly think the case against ashersky is stronger than the case against you? It seems you think we are all fools for thinking you are mafia.

[Captain_Frisk]

Mrs frisk is pissed

[Voltgloss]

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun! Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game.

[Eevee]

Mrs frisk is pissed

Deadline is next thursday. You don't need to post today if it upsets your family!

[ashersky]

Rule question to mods: Would a jailkept player give out an investigation result?

- If a Cop or Rolecop investigates Player X; and
- A Jailkeeper jailkeeps Player X that same night; then
- The Cop or Rolecop does receive an investigation result on Player X.

Being jailkept has two, and only two, ramifications: (1) the jailkept player's night action, if any, has no effect; and (2) the jailkept player is protected from death.  If you are jailkept, and an investigative role also targets you that night, the investigator WILL get a result.

Follow up, just to be sure: if you replace the Jailkeeper portion above with Doctor, the text does not change, correct?  A doctored person still gives a result to Cop or Rolecop?

[Voltgloss]

- If a Cop or Rolecop investigates Player X; and
- A Jailkeeper jailkeeps Player X that same night; then
- The Cop or Rolecop does receive an investigation result on Player X.

Follow up, just to be sure: if you replace the Jailkeeper portion above with Doctor, the text does not change, correct?  A doctored person still gives a result to Cop or Rolecop?

Correct.

[Eevee]

Oh-ou, girlfriend called to inform she'll be bringing an afterparty to our place and my computer is in our living room so won't be finishing the re-read today. Don't particularly want to be the guy who reviews a mafia thread on a saturday night when people drink around him, so I'll just head to sleep. Before that I'll make sure to tell her about the hard on I got for a certain captain though! Got to keep the relationship honest.

[Captain_Frisk]

Oh-ou, girlfriend called to inform she'll be bringing an afterparty to our place and my computer is in our living room so won't be finishing the re-read today. Don't particularly want to be the guy who reviews a mafia thread on a saturday night when people drink around him, so I'll just head to sleep. Before that I'll make sure to tell her about the hard on I got for a certain captain though! Got to keep the relationship honest.

  Sorry to both you and Volt for getting angry.  I'm still having fun - I've learned quite a bit.  Misreading people as noob cleared PPS in my mind when he voted no lynch, and I think Asher's play here is brilliant.  Surely - now I can understand people believing Asher vs. Me, but it's frustrating to know that at least one of you and Volt are town, and yet you guys have been after me well before there was anything resembling a case. (Still waiting for this btw)

Also - sorry for not knowing what JK does.  According to mafiascum, I thought the jailkeeper acted as the alien variant.  I guess that means I was kept the first night, and that Jorbles may have been jailkept last night.  (Does that mean people now think that I both rolecopped AND killed last night?!?)

As for the specifics of believing Asher vs. me, if he had claimed immediately - then sure - then I'd say sure - lynch me hands down.  But after he had a night to review - i think preparing a full on n00b defense is at least somewhat plausible.  Clearly his soft claims weren't that obvious, since we almost lynched him anyway.  I don't think that the claim was planned prior to day 2, i think that the generic "oh crap don't lynch me!!!!" was hoping to avoid needing to name a specific claim so he could get back and confer with his scum buddy.  Maybe it would hold someone back who thought he might be the jailkeeper?

Mafia knows the correct play for town here is to no lynch, and with a cop in play this is bad for them.  This play by ash prevents the no lynch, and has a decent chance of winning.  Ash already had a credible "noob" baseline - and was already viewed as scummy - so losing him wouldn't be the end of the world (he would have been your #1 suspect today if I had flipped town yesterday?) - and his scrambling near the deadline can be interpreted as a softclaim.

As for not posting - I really feel the pressure to do so because Volt has said he's willing to lynch without further discussion.  Since lynching me is probably only marginally better than lynching the jailkeeper - I'm obviously very much opposed to it.

[Eevee]

What you are suggesting would require quite complex planning and would generally be very very high level mafia play. Who of us would be capable of making a plan that devious? I know it would certainly be completely beyond me at least. Ashersky-Cuzz is the most suggested mafia team if you are the cop. Now PPS has taught us not to underestimate new players but.. That would be quite something from two first timers? And also, how could a team plan something like that but fail to notice ashersky doesn't know the setup?

By the way, I'm wondering if Frisk could be faking getting upset as a mafia ploy. I think he knows I tend to think strong emotion is a town tell.. But nah, I don't think he'd do that. Sorry for getting you riled up, I do try to see both sides and give you a fair chance of proving your innocence.

[ashersky]

He and his mate know that he looks the scummiest now - and that if they aren't able to drive a lynch against me - he's the backup.  My claim was starting to get some traction - so they dropped into the backup plan: the counter claim.  Counter claiming cop is harder because you need to know who was and was not jailkept, but claiming doctor still conflicts me - and there's no way to validate his behavior.  We've been calling him a n00b for a while, so he is just rolling with it. 

If ashersky is fakeclaiming, it must have been planned in advance with his team mate. How on earth could the team mate have missed ash not knowing the setup?

Just a note to respond to Frisk.  If my doctor claim was false, and therefore pre-planned, why did I admit to protecting you of all people on N2?  Wouldn't a mafia team have chosen anyone else that didn't die if they planned on going for you on D3?  A lying doctor could choose any townish survivor and have claimed to have targeted them.

I am not lying about any of this, and it is too outrageous to be mafia meta play.  We don't know yet who your partner is, but we will figure it out on D4.

[Captain_Frisk]

Admitting to doctoring me is extra confirmation of your faked poor play

[Cuzz]

All right guys - so here's the biggest problem with the Frisk is scum philosophy.  Why wouldn't I have claimed guilty on someone?  Either on town and go for the win, or as a longer term play - investigate my own teammate and say that he's scum?

Am I missing something? How is this not obvious? You saying Jorbles is innocent makes perfect sense if he's scum as well.

There's no point fakeclaiming cop unless you expect people to believe you. That's the general purpose of a lie, to convince people of a falsehood. If we do believe you, once you've then tricked the town into confirming you as town, your scumbuddy rides along for free, and we're guaranteed not to lynch scum.

Nothing Frisk has said has changed my mind in the slightest. He's resorting to bullying and intimidation at this point (to use some of the nicer words that apply). Complaining about the case or lack thereof on him yesterday is distracting and completely moot. There is a case now and it's pretty damn good.

At least he's trying to string together long analysis posts; he won't go down without a fight. Jorbles is barely keeping his head above water while the cases on him and Frisk build, and he's not saying much of anything.

Eevee, your recent post confuses me as well, and I'm having real trouble following your logic. If it's true that your girlfriend was bringing a party back to your place, how does this lead to the conclusion that going to sleep is the correct play here? Surely you would have considered joining the party as a viable option. This type of play strikes me as highly suspicious. Talk about not sharing my win condition.