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[Jorbles]

Uuh just realized one freaking huge thing that points to Frisk being town.
If he was a mafia rolecop and knew the identity of our jailkeeper, why would he have killed GeoLib!?

I know you know this, but every post of yours that seems to help Frisk will suck when he flips Mafia.

What does this even mean? What Eevee said makes sense, what ashersky said I do not understand.

[ashersky]

If he was tellig the truth - then he would know I was lying - and my claim can't be legit.

I honestly thought there could be a Cop and Doctor.  You and me.  You said today there could not.  That there had to be a JK.  So I know you are lying about yourself, anyway.  Man, there still could be a cop out there.  (Don't out yourself now, though.  Or maybe so?  We lynch Frisk, NK me or cop, the lynch mafia and win.)

Put it this way, you said you checked out Geo on D1, got no result.  Then you were willing to help me lynch him when we had a wagon going yesterday.  Now he's dead.  I don't know, it's all fishy now, and the end of D2 was just too crazy.

Uuh just realized one freaking huge thing that points to Frisk being town.
If he was a mafia rolecop and knew the identity of our jailkeeper, why would he have killed GeoLib!?

I know you know this, but every post of yours that seems to help Frisk will suck when he flips Mafia.

What does this even mean? What Eevee said makes sense, what ashersky said I do not understand.

It means that when/if we lynch Frisk, and he flips Mafia, all of Eevee's efforts to protect Frisk will be awfully suspicious.

[Captain_Frisk]

If he was tellig the truth - then he would know I was lying - and my claim can't be legit.

I honestly thought there could be a Cop and Doctor.  You and me.  You said today there could not.  That there had to be a JK.  So I know you are lying about yourself, anyway.  Man, there still could be a cop out there.  (Don't out yourself now, though.  Or maybe so?  We lynch Frisk, NK me or cop, the lynch mafia and win.)

I was willi to give you a noob pass on day 2- but you can't expect these people to relieve that you didn't understand the game setup. It clearly states that there are at most 2 power roles. In my claim I confirmed he existence of both a jail keeper and a cop.

You yourself said my claim seems legit - probably because you didn't want to be seen wagonning a cop flip

Now that you can win - you are bringing in he fake claim hat you semi breadcrumbed - using a noob confusion argument

Don't fall for it folks.

[ashersky]

I was willi to give you a noob pass on day 2- but you can't expect these people to relieve that you didn't understand the game setup. It clearly states that there are at most 2 power roles. In my claim I confirmed he existence of both a jail keeper and a cop.

You yourself said my claim seems legit - probably because you didn't want to be seen wagonning a cop flip

Now that you can win - you are bringing in he fake claim hat you semi breadcrumbed - using a noob confusion argument

Don't fall for it folks.

There can be 2 power roles, Cop and Doctor.  Honestly, my thought process was: I had a night action on Geo, you claimed a night action didn't work on Geo, wasn't thinking in the heat of the moment.  Then the day ended.

At this point, I suppose it's up to the rest to decide who's lying.  A mislynch sets up a pretty dire situation for town.  Look at our posts on D3.  Who's not saying much of anything?  You'll need more than "ash is scummy" to win this one, I think.

I am the Town Doctor.  Lynch Mafia today and we basically force them to NK me, leaving the rest of you to pick off the partner.  WIFOM lets me protect someone and they risk not killing anyone if they go for anyone but me.

[Eevee]

Frisk, do you assume ashersky thought of the (supposed) fake claim on the fly or that the scum team planned him doing it last night?

[Jorbles]

Uuh just realized one freaking huge thing that points to Frisk being town.
If he was a mafia rolecop and knew the identity of our jailkeeper, why would he have killed GeoLib!?

Okay so if Frisk is mafia then he could have known that there was a jailkeeper if he is the mafia rolecop and got no result on a GeoLib investigation, but if that had happened than why would he NK GeoLib? If he knew there was a JK out there he would have killed anyone but GeoLib in hopes of hitting the JK. It's possible he thought GeoLib was the jailkeeper, but isn't there a higher chance he would have thought that anyone else was the jailkeeper? The chances of GeoLib as JK picking Frisk on night one are 1/7 (Robz was dead and he wouldn't JK himself) or 14%. The chances of anyone else picking GeoLib or Frisk would be 2/7 or 29%. If he's scum and he chose to NK GeoLib than he chose the person with the lowest chance of being the Jailkeeper. I think we've seen from his posts that Frisk is inclined to think of the numbers when he's making decisions it seems unlikely that he would choose to NK GeoLib if he knew a Jailkeeper was in the game.

[ashersky]

To confirm: my Doctor protection of Geo should not have resulted in a "no result" on Frisk's Cop investigation, right?  Just want to be sure that we aren't both truly PRs arguing at each other...

[Eevee]

To confirm: my Doctor protection of Geo should not have resulted in a "no result" on Frisk's Cop investigation, right?  Just want to be sure that we aren't both truly PRs arguing at each other...

No. Only jailkeeping gives no results in this setup.

[Captain_Frisk]

Frisk, do you assume ashersky thought of the (supposed) fake claim on the fly or that the scum team planned him doing it last night?

I have no idea. I would assume premeditated - but his scum buddy must be face palming right now. Maybe he thought to strike while the iron was hot before the wagons cooled off - like the geolib and Asher wagons did yesterday? 

Personally - I would have slow played it in his position, because I think a town win is almost guaranteed in this situation now.

[Eevee]

Uuh just realized one freaking huge thing that points to Frisk being town.
If he was a mafia rolecop and knew the identity of our jailkeeper, why would he have killed GeoLib!?

Okay so if Frisk is mafia then he could have known that there was a jailkeeper if he is the mafia rolecop and got no result on a GeoLib investigation, but if that had happened than why would he NK GeoLib? If he knew there was a JK out there he would have killed anyone but GeoLib in hopes of hitting the JK. It's possible he thought GeoLib was the jailkeeper, but isn't there a higher chance he would have thought that anyone else was the jailkeeper? The chances of GeoLib as JK picking Frisk on night one are 1/7 (Robz was dead and he wouldn't JK himself) or 14%. The chances of anyone else picking GeoLib or Frisk would be 2/7 or 29%. If he's scum and he chose to NK GeoLib than he chose the person with the lowest chance of being the Jailkeeper. I think we've seen from his posts that Frisk is inclined to think of the numbers when he's making decisions it seems unlikely that he would choose to NK GeoLib if he knew a Jailkeeper was in the game.

This is my main problem with ashersky's side. OOTH, Frisk has been hella scummy and there is one more thing I'm getting at with my last question to Frisk. This is really hard.

[ashersky]

I have no idea. I would assume premeditated - but his scum buddy must be face palming right now. Maybe he thought to strike while the iron was hot before the wagons cooled off - like the geolib and Asher wagons did yesterday? 

Personally - I would have slow played it in his position, because I think a town win is almost guaranteed in this situation now.

This would be pretty terrible mafia play, right?   Like, lose the game for mafia right?

So Occam's Razor here.  What's the most likely thing?  That I'm mafia going crazy, or town telling the truth?

[Eevee]

Frisk, do you assume ashersky thought of the (supposed) fake claim on the fly or that the scum team planned him doing it last night?

I have no idea. I would assume premeditated - but his scum buddy must be face palming right now. Maybe he thought to strike while the iron was hot before the wagons cooled off - like the geolib and Asher wagons did yesterday? 

Personally - I would have slow played it in his position, because I think a town win is almost guaranteed in this situation now.

Almost guaranteed even if we pick the wrong guy today?

My main problem with the "ashersky is fake claiming" theory is that.. it MUST have been planned. No new player ever just pulls something like that our of his ass like this. And obviously scum has to have discussed fakeclaiming last night. So, they discussed and decided ashersky is going to claim doctor. How the hell would ashersky's scum partner allow him to be so confused about the setup? Surely they would have talked it over..

So yeah, Frisk's team making a stupid mistake by killing Geo (or maybe they had some unknown reasons) just seems more likely than ashersky's partner failing to notice ash doesn't know the game setup. And also once again Frisk, why didn't ashersky's team kill you last night if you really are the cop?

[Captain_Frisk]

I don't know. I expected to die.  This play that he's doing wouldn't work on anyone else?  Noob mistake?

Maybe it backs up the "Asher is a noob" theory that I championed to save his ass yesterday?  If you guys lynch me, I'm going to be really pissed, since we could have had him yesterday.

[Jorbles]

So Occam's Razor here.  What's the most likely thing?  That I'm mafia going crazy, or town telling the truth?

This argument is so compelling that I can find no flaws in it. [Vote: Frisk]

Though I'm still confused as to why he fingered me as town. I guess to build cred with me.

[Eevee]

Idea: both ashersky and Frisk get really really drunk and go at it ehunt-style, no one intervenes until we figure out which of them is lying. Possible problem: Mrs Frisk might not appreciate the plan.

[Captain_Frisk]

Ok - let's do this Asher

You are claiming doctor. Night 1 you targeted geo?  Your number 1 target on day2?  Why?

Who did you target last night and why? 

[ashersky]

Ok - let's do this Asher

You are claiming doctor. Night 1 you targeted geo?  Your number 1 target on day2?  Why?

Who did you target last night and why?

Someone quoted the Geo post that made me choose him as likely town--the one where he was upset that I had hammered.  It seemed so honest and in the moment.  On day 2 I thought his behavior went scummy.  Plus, he clearly wasn't the NK target, although that didn't tell me much of anything.  You saw the back and forth with us on D2--we suspected each other more as the day went.

N2 I targeted you, Frisk, to protect.  I blithely believed your claim.  I sent my action in very quickly.  A mistake, as I should have thought more on it.  I just thought, protect the cop! 

So ironically, now I am voting you after protecting you, the same as Geo on D2 after N1.  Only this time I am right.

[ashersky]

Idea: both ashersky and Frisk get really really drunk and go at it ehunt-style, no one intervenes until we figure out which of them is lying. Possible problem: Mrs Frisk might not appreciate the plan.

Mrs. ashersky would also object.

[Captain_Frisk]

Here is a message from my son on the subject:
        333333333333333333333333333333333333333w`

[Eevee]

Here is a message from my son on the subject:
        333333333333333333333333333333333333333w`

So you'd say your trade is a family business?

[Captain_Frisk]

Here is a message from my son on the subject:
        333333333333333333333333333333333333333w`

So you'd say your trade is a family business?

He's 15 months - I'm giving him a little slack...

[Cuzz]

Here is a message from my son on the subject:
        333333333333333333333333333333333333333w`

So you'd say your trade is a family business?

He's 15 months - I'm giving him a little slack...

Fos: Baby Frisk

[Captain_Frisk]

Ok - let's do this Asher

You are claiming doctor. Night 1 you targeted geo?  Your number 1 target on day2?  Why?

Who did you target last night and why?

Someone quoted the Geo post that made me choose him as likely town--the one where he was upset that I had hammered.  It seemed so honest and in the moment.  On day 2 I thought his behavior went scummy.  Plus, he clearly wasn't the NK target, although that didn't tell me much of anything.  You saw the back and forth with us on D2--we suspected each other more as the day went.

N2 I targeted you, Frisk, to protect.  I blithely believed your claim.  I sent my action in very quickly.  A mistake, as I should have thought more on it.  I just thought, protect the cop! 

So ironically, now I am voting you after protecting you, the same as Geo on D2 after N1.  Only this time I am right.

Listen - I have already lost to the ridiculous Glooble / DSell claims in M4 - which were clearly false afterwards, but there's NO WAY i'm going to let town lose to mafia who is claiming that he is this much of a noob.

Do you folks see this?  Asher is claiming to have doctored obvious scum.  This is Morgrim level insanity.

[Captain_Frisk]

Cuzz - what is your read on this situation?  Crazy rant and the baby talk stands out?

[ashersky]

I'll lay it all out again, as I see it.

Looking at D3, is my claim and argument making any sense as anything other than true town?  What kind of Mafia does this?  Coming clean helped the town most, so that's what I did.  I won't claim to have played masterfully or well, as clearly I haven't.  But I've called Frisk on his lie and he's had no real argument against it other than to keep pointing fingers at me.  What kind of super-meta bold move would it be to not only fakeclaim doctor now, so soon into D3, but to explain everything the way I have?  And any of you townies, imagine if I was mafia and your mafia partner?  How would you be feeling now?  I would have to be suiciding Mafia to be revealing this way.

Also some retro-perspective:

Why I didn't to claim on D2 -- I'd be dead, for one.  Mafia would have NKed the real PR.
Why kill Geo -- his death makes the D2 stalled-wagon on me the easiest to restart today.

I made a mistake by not seeing the Frisk lie for what it was on D2.  Lesson learned.