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[Jorbles]

1. Now, I've crossed out some pairs because they've had big spats and/or voted each other early on Day 2. This is an assumption that mafia wouldn't publicaly go for each other's throats. Weigh the following based on that assumption.

This assumption that mafia wouldn't go for each other strongly. I'm not sure it's a safe assumption to be making. What if they bussed each other so they'd be considered unlikely to be on the same team in case one of them gets caught?

[Voltaire]

1. Now, I've crossed out some pairs because they've had big spats and/or voted each other early on Day 2. This is an assumption that mafia wouldn't publicaly go for each other's throats. Weigh the following based on that assumption.

This assumption that mafia wouldn't go for each other strongly. I'm not sure it's a safe assumption to be making. What if they bussed each other so they'd be considered unlikely to be on the same team in case one of them gets caught?

As you'll note, this only eliminates two pairs - Cuzz/Frisk and Ash/Eevee. Think about the interaction between the two - I think this is a safe assumption. Unless you're a PR with additional info, you've got to make an assumption at some point. Unless you're mafia, of course.

*all "you's" above are general "you's"

[Captain_Frisk]

You are missing 2 pairs.  Ash eevee and ash jorbles I think?

[ashersky]

Sorry all, had to work today and was out all day.  Sorry to see I was wrong on Geo.

My most important question is, if someone could out Frisk as lying, should they immediately?  It seems the way that happens is (and correct me if I am misunderstanding):

--there is a jail keeper and he can confirm NOT keeping Geo on N1
--there is a doctor, so there cannot be both a cop and a jk
--someone else is the cop

Are those the only ways?

[Voltaire]

You are missing 2 pairs.  Ash eevee and ash jorbles I think?

I have ash/eevee. I did not have ash/jorbles. I was also missing jorbles/eevee.

The correct list:

Frisk/Cuzz
Frisk/Ash
Frisk/Eevee
Frisk/Jorbles
Cuzz/Ash
Cuzz/Eevee
Cuzz/Jorbles
Ash/Eevee
Ash/Jorbles
Jorbles/Eevee

EVERYONE, I AM GOING TO STOP POSTING UNTIL I CAN SORT THIS OUT/CLEAR MY HEAD/WRITE A BETTER, MORE CONCISE POST.

[Captain_Frisk]

Sorry all, had to work today and was out all day.  Sorry to see I was wrong on Geo.

My most important question is, if someone could out Frisk as lying, should they immediately?  It seems the way that happens is (and correct me if I am misunderstanding):

--there is a jail keeper and he can confirm NOT keeping Geo on N1
--there is a doctor, so there cannot be both a cop and a jk
--someone else is the cop

Are those the only ways?

If the jail keeper kept me - then I would receive the same result as if they had kept geo.

As for coming out - it isn't possible for Anyone to refute me - so I will know that anyone who does so is scum. In a hypothetical I am scum world - I have no idea what the correct play is. I think that we've only had one counter claim in completed games - mafia 2.

[ashersky]

Sorry all, had to work today and was out all day.  Sorry to see I was wrong on Geo.

My most important question is, if someone could out Frisk as lying, should they immediately?  It seems the way that happens is (and correct me if I am misunderstanding):

--there is a jail keeper and he can confirm NOT keeping Geo on N1
--there is a doctor, so there cannot be both a cop and a jk
--someone else is the cop

Are those the only ways?

If the jail keeper kept me - then I would receive the same result as if they had kept geo.

As for coming out - it isn't possible for Anyone to refute me - so I will know that anyone who does so is scum. In a hypothetical I am scum world - I have no idea what the correct play is. I think that we've only had one counter claim in completed games - mafia 2.

I'm just trying to find as many ways to clear you as much as catch you.  Basically, if you are the Cop, there must be either a doc or jk still around, right?  Since you claim a non-result on your N1 investigation, you posit there MUST be a jk and not a doctor, right?

[Captain_Frisk]

Sorry all, had to work today and was out all day.  Sorry to see I was wrong on Geo.

My most important question is, if someone could out Frisk as lying, should they immediately?  It seems the way that happens is (and correct me if I am misunderstanding):

--there is a jail keeper and he can confirm NOT keeping Geo on N1
--there is a doctor, so there cannot be both a cop and a jk
--someone else is the cop

Are those the only ways?

If the jail keeper kept me - then I would receive the same result as if they had kept geo.

As for coming out - it isn't possible for Anyone to refute me - so I will know that anyone who does so is scum. In a hypothetical I am scum world - I have no idea what the correct play is. I think that we've only had one counter claim in completed games - mafia 2.

I'm just trying to find as many ways to clear you as much as catch you.  Basically, if you are the Cop, there must be either a doc or jk still around, right?  Since you claim a non-result on your N1 investigation, you posit there MUST be a jk and not a doctor, right?

Correct.  There is a jail keeper - who should remain nameless and no doctor.

[ashersky]

Correct.  There is a jail keeper - who should remain nameless and no doctor.

Not sure I agree there.  JK outs you, we lynch you, go up 4 to 1.  Scum presumably NKs the JK, we are at 3 to 1.  Not terrible odds, right?

[Voltaire]

Correct.  There is a jail keeper - who should remain nameless and no doctor.

Not sure I agree there.  JK outs you, we lynch you, go up 4 to 1.  Scum presumably NKs the JK, we are at 3 to 1.  Not terrible odds, right?

Yeah, I'm actually thinking along these lines. And based on who the JK is, I think I can figure out his scum partner.*

*in this scenario

[ashersky]

Correct.  There is a jail keeper - who should remain nameless and no doctor.

Not sure I agree there.  JK outs you, we lynch you, go up 4 to 1.  Scum presumably NKs the JK, we are at 3 to 1.  Not terrible odds, right?

Yeah, I'm actually thinking along these lines. And based on who the JK is, I think I can figure out his scum partner.*

*in this scenario

The real cop could come forward and put us in the same position, right?  This is assuming a Frisk lie.

[Voltaire]

Correct.  There is a jail keeper - who should remain nameless and no doctor.

Not sure I agree there.  JK outs you, we lynch you, go up 4 to 1.  Scum presumably NKs the JK, we are at 3 to 1.  Not terrible odds, right?

Yeah, I'm actually thinking along these lines. And based on who the JK is, I think I can figure out his scum partner.*

*in this scenario

But that'd just be being greedy, anyway. We can only lynch one scum per night, anyway. 

[Voltaire]

Correct.  There is a jail keeper - who should remain nameless and no doctor.

Not sure I agree there.  JK outs you, we lynch you, go up 4 to 1.  Scum presumably NKs the JK, we are at 3 to 1.  Not terrible odds, right?

Yeah, I'm actually thinking along these lines. And based on who the JK is, I think I can figure out his scum partner.*

*in this scenario

The real cop could come forward and put us in the same position, right?  This is assuming a Frisk lie.

Yup. Which, given the chaos of the end of D2, would explain why they waited until D3. That cop would also have real results to give.

[Eevee]

I think anyone who can prove Frisk is lying should come forward. But the jailkeeper we have lurking somewhere should stay low, because confirming that part of his story does us no good because if he is lying, he is a rolecop.

[Captain_Frisk]

Correct.  There is a jail keeper - who should remain nameless and no doctor.

Not sure I agree there.  JK outs you, we lynch you, go up 4 to 1.  Scum presumably NKs the JK, we are at 3 to 1.  Not terrible odds, right?

In order for jk to "out me" - I'd have to be lieing - which you just seem to assume with no case except this one you are "working on". If morgrim had no meta - I would lunch you so hard!

[ashersky]

I can confirm Frisk is lying, at the risk of being NKed.  Still, you'll have one PR left so I think town is best served knowing.

I am the Doctor.  I protected Geo on N1 and Frisk (unfortunately) on N2.  I didn't think through the possible lie scenarios or the three power role problem, and also contemplated that he was protecting Geo by saying no result.  I did want to believe Frisk, after all.

Vote: Frisk

The other PR could be cop or JK, so you get more info tonight even as Mafia lynch me.

[Eevee]

NOBODY VOTE!

I believe you ashersky, but still. We need to talk things through first.

Frisk, why would ashersky be lying here? Seems very out of the blue to me.

[ashersky]

NOBODY VOTE!

I believe you ashersky, but still. We need to talk things through first.

Frisk, why would ashersky be lying here? Seems very out of the blue to me.

Also, whomever does and doesn't vote will be indicative in this.

[Captain_Frisk]

NOBODY VOTE!

I believe you ashersky, but still. We need to talk things through first.

Frisk, why would ashersky be lying here? Seems very out of the blue to me.

He must be scum - and he's doing it because lynching me wins the game.  Why wait until after night to claim?

[ashersky]

NOBODY VOTE!

I believe you ashersky, but still. We need to talk things through first.

Frisk, why would ashersky be lying here? Seems very out of the blue to me.

He must be scum - and he's doing it because lynching me wins the game.  Why wait until after night to claim?

Honestly, I think my protecting you of all folks last night shows just how newb I really am.  I didn't occur to me that your Geo "no result" could be anything more than either you protecting Geo or maybe my doctoring keeping you from finding out?  You could have mafia rolecopped him and gotten no result from my doctoring, but I think it only works on kills, so who knows?  Still, your story makes no sense post Night.  I clearly couldn't post after the thread closed so soon after your claim and the deadline came (the punishment quote under my avatar notwithstanding).

You confirmed to me you were lying when you were so sure there was a JK in this game.  There probably is, and you know who it is, from rolecopping, not from copping.

[Captain_Frisk]

To clarify: being a cop is indeed the only way Frisk could know about Geo or himself getting jailkept, scum wouldnt know that. So if tomorrow we have no jailkeeper (if we have and he didnt jailkeep frisk of geo he doesnt claim), Frisk is scum and lying. So if he is town, scum will nightkill him.

Unless there's a doctor, right?  Anyway, his claim seems legit enough, as you mentioned it seems too involved for a fake claim.  My vote's still on Cuzz at this point, and won't change unless we get the Geo wagon going again.  6 minutes to go...

And Cuzz has claimed VT.  I'd say lets get back to <b>Vote: Geolib.</b>

See above.

[Eevee]

Uuh just realized one freaking huge thing that points to Frisk being town.
If he was a mafia rolecop and knew the identity of our jailkeeper, why would he have killed GeoLib!?

[Eevee]

To clarify: being a cop is indeed the only way Frisk could know about Geo or himself getting jailkept, scum wouldnt know that. So if tomorrow we have no jailkeeper (if we have and he didnt jailkeep frisk of geo he doesnt claim), Frisk is scum and lying. So if he is town, scum will nightkill him.

Unless there's a doctor, right?  Anyway, his claim seems legit enough, as you mentioned it seems too involved for a fake claim.  My vote's still on Cuzz at this point, and won't change unless we get the Geo wagon going again.  6 minutes to go...

And Cuzz has claimed VT.  I'd say lets get back to <b>Vote: Geolib.</b>

See above.

To be fair that could also be read as a soft claim? IDK things were super hectic last night. It's conceivable ashersky just didn't have time to weigh the pros and cons of claiming.

[ashersky]

Uuh just realized one freaking huge thing that points to Frisk being town.
If he was a mafia rolecop and knew the identity of our jailkeeper, why would he have killed GeoLib!?

I know you know this, but every post of yours that seems to help Frisk will suck when he flips Mafia.

To clarify: being a cop is indeed the only way Frisk could know about Geo or himself getting jailkept, scum wouldnt know that. So if tomorrow we have no jailkeeper (if we have and he didnt jailkeep frisk of geo he doesnt claim), Frisk is scum and lying. So if he is town, scum will nightkill him.

Unless there's a doctor, right?  Anyway, his claim seems legit enough, as you mentioned it seems too involved for a fake claim.  My vote's still on Cuzz at this point, and won't change unless we get the Geo wagon going again.  6 minutes to go...

And Cuzz has claimed VT.  I'd say lets get back to <b>Vote: Geolib.</b>

See above.

To be fair that could also be read as a soft claim? IDK things were super hectic last night. It's conceivable ashersky just didn't have time to weigh the pros and cons of claiming.

That was indeed a hint.  I didn't know if claiming was a good thing and erred on not then, since, well, I didn't know what to do.  I thought protecting myself, and then protecting the Cop was the best bet.  Now you all, especially Frisk, has convinced me that Frisk isn't the cop, so I'm out.

[Captain_Frisk]

If he was tellig the truth - then he would know I was lying - and my claim can't be legit.