Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Robz888]

Ugggh. Fuck.

[yuma]

well this is fun... I have never been alive during a lylo scenario before (I rarely survive through a whole game)... well I was briefly in MVIII, but then we no-lynched instead and I was night killed... Lame.

PPE: it would appear that robz disagrees on the funness of the situation... Sorry man.

[Jimmmmm]

I'll admit I had an "Oh crap!" moment when I saw lio posting right after I voted.

[Robz888]

I'm so mad at yuma for suggesting that me being hedgy is a scumtell, something that has definitely been proven to be something scum accuses town of to get them lynched, stretching all the way back to Mafia II when I first used this tactic succesfully, but of course lio and Jimm wouldn't remember that.

[Robz888]

well this is fun... I have never been alive during a lylo scenario before (I rarely survive through a whole game)... well I was briefly in MVIII, but then we no-lynched instead and I was night killed... Lame.

PPE: it would appear that robz disagrees on the funness of the situation... Sorry man.

Maybe the situation is fun for scum. It's damn infurating for town.

[Jimmmmm]

Why be mad at him? If you're Town then he's scum and that's a valid tactic whether it's true or not.

[Robz888]

Here, here's a time capsule for you. This is from Mafia II. I am scum with Galzria. Here's where I first start insisting that people who change their mind about who is scum ("hedging") are themselves scum. It was a manipulative lie. I tried very hard not to waver from my convictions, and used the fact that I didn't waver from them as evidence of my towniness.

All of that said, as much of a thorn in my side as I am finding Voltgloss right now, I suspect him less of being mafia than I did before.

Galzria and others have convinced me that probably only one of the voters is mafia. At the end of my last post, I said as much, and that I would be dropping my case against either Volt or Robz.  I think a mafia would have responded to that hint by trying to get on my good side. Volt responded by stepping up his attack against me. That's points in favor of him being town, in my book.

I don't really understand this at all, and it's sort of emblematic of why you have emerged, in my view, as the most suspicious Morgrim voter, when I initially suspected Galzria and Volt much more. All four of us killed this guy, the wrong guy, and there are fair reasons why each of us is supicious (Galzria was all over the place, Volt and I read like we are working in tandem, you expressed hesitance but didn't retract). But now you sound a lot to me like a mafia picking his next target. "I would be dropping my case against either Volt or Robz." This isn't a prosecution. You can suspect both of us. (Indeed, I sympathize with suspecting both of us.) Volt is mostly saying things that I also think about you, and have said ever since you started hedging your bets.

I'm already a little wary of the way you and Robz888 put together some of your arguments for Morgrim. I fully acknowledge he did next to nothing to help his own case, but I've seen a lot of straw-man arguments from you two. It got Morgrim killed.

This is a valid point. I full admit to hammering Morgrim hard. There were a lot of things that made me suspicious of him. But some of the things I said about him I said because I hoped it would provoke him, and possibly get him to confess or say something really incriminating. Or, if he respond reasonably, I might have reconsidered my vote. It's so hard to make these calls and read people, and one way of doing this is to provoke and irritate. I wouldn't have done this to him if I didn't already have strong suspicions. But so long as the mafia behave like rational people, it is hard to figure them out. I was hoping to provoke him into behaving irrationally, so that we could learn for certain whether he was mafia. (You can check the other game for evidence of this play style.) And let me point out, I did succeed at getting him to act irrationally... but instead of saying something that truly revealed his allegiance, he offed himself. And I am sorry about that.

Jtheonah's belated unvote of Morgrim read like an early attempt to create a narrative for himself, "I didn't really suspect poor, innocent Morgrim, I was confused by these other three." Perhaps that's a wise thing to do whether you're town or mafia. But I strongly suspect that 'hedging' is more likely to be a mafia thing to do, rather than a town thing.

All this is not to say that I now think jtheonah is mafia and Galz and Volt are totally in the clear. (Also, Galz and j could both be mafia.) Indeed, I said earlier that if not for j's post-morgrim behavior, I would probably suspect him the least. But I don't like how he's acting.

[Robz888]

More from M-II:

So the question you need to answer is which is more suspicious: conviction/consistency or excitability/flexibility? Just keep in mind that the mafia already know who they're trying to kill. They're the ones who can afford conviction.

Wrong, wrong, wrong, totally wrong. The mafia don't need conviction/consistency. The townspeople need those things. Excitability and flexibility are the mafia's top tools for scoring lynch kills in their favor. There are way more town than mafia, so the more hedging the more flexibility, the more excitability, the more likely we are to expand the circle of suspicion to including way too many innocent people. We need conviction (based on evidence and reason, of course) to get the mafia. They don't need conviction or consistency to get us.

To state it practically, the mafia don't care if we kill Morgrim. They just care that we kill someone, because that person is likely not to be a mafia. I cared that we killed Morgrim specifically, and I was convicted and consistent in that respect because I suspected him, for reasons I've stated and that many people, including jtheonah at the time, agreed with.

[Robz888]

Again, the above is me, as scum, making the same argument that yuma is now making about me.

[yuma]

so would I as scum... knowing this (I had watched MII as a spectator) use this method to implicate you?

Or would you as scum be hedgy because you have said that being convinced is a scummy thing to do?

[Robz888]

so would I as scum... knowing this (I had watched MII as a spectator) use this method to implicate you?

Or would you as scum be hedgy because you have said that being convinced is a scummy thing to do?

Oh, please. You couldn't help it--it comes naturally to scum to argue that people who are changing their mind are scummy. Jimm and lio weren't around for the early games where we definitively disproved this.

[Robz888]

Now that I know yuma is scum for certain, I will have to re-read him one more time. Nobody do anything sudden.

[yuma]

But Robz you need to look at the context. I mean... actually look at the game that we are playing. If I remember MII correctly there was good reason for wavering and being uncertain. I don't think there was a IC around... or 1/2 ICs in that game. But here... there is! I guess I think that even considering--and you went beyond that as placing it as the most plausible--about the possibility of Jimmm or lio being scum (something that both I and the other two considered to be soooo super unlikely) is a tad bit ridiculous. You say you were being thorough. I say you were leaving doors open... and once you realized that none of us were going for it, you ended up on me.

[liopoil]

not being certain from the beginning is towny. Yes, robz and Yuma should have been each other's top suspects, but Robz was very correct to consider Jimmmmm and I. I admit I initially ruled Jimmmmm out, and this was a mistake.

I'd agree with Yuma about this situation. It is fun. Unless you're like sudgy in the newbie game, where you know who the scum is but nobody listens. Which is the position that town!Yuma would be in. (to a lesser extent.) Therefore I conclude that Yuma enjoying this game is scummy.

[yuma]

not being certain from the beginning is towny. Yes, robz and Yuma should have been each other's top suspects, but Robz was very correct to consider Jimmmmm and I. I admit I initially ruled Jimmmmm out, and this was a mistake.

I agree! But that isn't what Robz did. That is what I did. I was open to the idea of Jimmm potentially being--never really was toward you--but once I did a reread and actually looked at everything I settled on Robz. But Robz said that my "certainty" was a scum trait...  when it fact it wasn't a certainty until today after you two became cleared, but clearly the most likely after my reread and looking at the evidence.

That didn't happen for Robz, throughout the day from the beginning until very recently he was completely open to the idea of Jimmmm and even more so for you!!! and only changed when it was obvious he couldn't convince either jimmm or me.

[yuma]

I'd agree with Yuma about this situation. It is fun. Unless you're like sudgy in the newbie game, where you know who the scum is but nobody listens. Which is the position that town!Yuma would be in. (to a lesser extent.) Therefore I conclude that Yuma enjoying this game is scummy.

Just because you guys aren't listening to me doesn't mean it isn't fun. If it wasn't fun I wouldn't be doing it... It is something that is hard, a little frustrating yes..., but certainly my definition of "fun." A game being fun isn't dependent on my winning it. Sheesh.

[liopoil]

I don't actually really think that in this case you can get clues about a player's allignment by anaylzing how much they are enjoying the game... I mean, it's mafia: It's fun. Neither of you are really scummy for your confidence or lack of confidence about the other player being scum either. Both of your approaches to puzzling out who the scum is in this crazy scenario were fine.

[liopoil]

Jimmmmmm! come figure out who the scum is!

[liopoil]

about 18 1/2 hours left. pros and cons of no lynch:

Pros:

-two weeks more for us to decide
-scum might have a negative utility which hurts them.

Cons:

-scum might have a role which makes no-lynching help them

So, if we haven't decided near the deadline, I think it is okay for us to no lynch if the extra time will help us.

[liopoil]

tick tick tick tick.....

[yuma]

tick tick tick tick.....

boom!

[Robz888]

Ugh, I don't know if I am going to have time to post like a big yuma case or anything before the deadline. I mean, going to night is not going to harm us probably. I feel worse for the qt people who are probably like dying that we are dragging this out so long.

[Jimmmmm]

Yeah sorry everyone, I don't think we're going to come to a conclusion by deadline.

[jotheonah]

The prophets were watching the action on the station with interest. Well, watching implies a sense of linear time, but they were aware of it in it's completeness, and they would have been surprised, if that concept had any meaning to them, at the DS9 denizen's capacity for time wasting. In this case, however, it had saved a life.

The deadline has been reached. No one has been lynched.

THREAD LOCKED

Extra long night for mod V/LA. Night Actions are due at 3 p.m. Wednesday, March 6th.

[jotheonah]

Opening this a little early.

In the morning, there are only 3 people left on Deep Space Nine. Vedek Bariel Antos, Station-Aligned 1-shot doctor and Beloved Princess, was beamed into space.

The three survivors regard each other with suspicion in the decaying remains of Quark's bar. Each has armed themselves with a phaser. It's a regular Mexican standoff.

Jimmmmm has been nightkilled. With 3 alive, it takes two to lynch.

Not voting (3): yuma, Robz888, liopoil
Deadline is Wednesday, March 20th at noon.