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[faust]

If AHoppy is truly town, and does not mind being lynched, that means he has already used his power. Now we have no investigation results, so he's not a D1 cop. He might be a D1 doc, but I think it's much more likely that he is scum who didn't think things through. And if he's town, scum now knows he's out of their kill pool.

If a D1 power were already expended shouldn't that person keep quiet unless a cop result on a Townie would serve to save them from a  mislynch?

No, I don't think so. Risk is too high that the player with the result gets killed and we never know they investigated. Didn't we already cover this D1? They need to claim at some point, and I think we're past that point now, so I'm assuming no result.

[pingpongsam]

If AHoppy is truly town, and does not mind being lynched, that means he has already used his power. Now we have no investigation results, so he's not a D1 cop. He might be a D1 doc, but I think it's much more likely that he is scum who didn't think things through. And if he's town, scum now knows he's out of their kill pool.

If a D1 power were already expended shouldn't that person keep quiet unless a cop result on a Townie would serve to save them from a  mislynch?

No, I don't think so. Risk is too high that the player with the result gets killed and we never know they investigated. Didn't we already cover this D1? They need to claim at some point, and I think we're past that point now, so I'm assuming no result.

Right, I agree that claiming within the day is necessary or else the result may get lost to NK. However, unless their Town result or the cop themselves are close to lynch what purpose is served to reveal it earlier rather than later in the day?

[Jimmmmm]

Any thoughts Eevee?

[faust]

Right, I agree that claiming within the day is necessary or else the result may get lost to NK. However, unless their Town result or the cop themselves are close to lynch what purpose is served to reveal it earlier rather than later in the day?

It gives us an IC at our disposal. Now, I agree that it's good to wait some time, but you want to claim this when there's still enough time for people to decide what to do with that claim. Now this Day is already in it's second half with quite some interesting stuff already happened (Robz/yuma, you/Jimmmm). Seems to me the time for a claim has come.

Regarding where this started, this argument is of course somewhat moot. Should AHoppy in fact be a N1 Cop, he will claim eventually, and if he does, I will adjust my vote accordingly. But for the time being, I work under the assumption that he's not a N1 Cop.

[Eevee]

Any thoughts Eevee?

Your argument with PPS is so confusing to read, like, I literally can't follow what's being talked about. I was null on you, wishing more contributions which you clearly have delivered, even if it's stuff I have trouble analyzing. PPS I read town earlier, his attempts to rebut your case hasn't made him townier to me, but not really scummy either.

TA, the problem with your case, despite the amount of work you've put to it, I don't really see anything to respond. You are digging some old quotes and saying that's how I play scum, when all I see is how I play the game of mafia.

I am severely lacking scum reads in this game though, I have no clue. I might actually want to lynch yuma come to think of it, he came off scummier in the Robz-debacle.

[Eevee]

Yuma always aggressively attacks people suspecting him for bad reasons, that's why he never gets lynched. Not all cases are slam dunk affairs though, I think "came off scummier in the weird exchange with Robz, hasn't seemed towny in his other dealings" is a fine enough reason to vote.

In fact, Vote: yuma and see what happens.

[faust]

Eevee, could you answer this:

Also everyone, I want your reasons why you are not voting AHoppy, the very player who said he doesn't mind being lynched.

[Twistedarcher]

Faust, what post # is that quote from?

Wouldn't scum mind getting lynched more than town would? I mean, scum wants to avoid getting lynched at all costs, while it's not the absolute worst thing for town if their mislynch helps to catch scum later..

I am not saying this clears Ahoppy at all, but I just don't see how this points to him being scum.

[Twistedarcher]

Yet again, no one responds to the posts on Eevee. I am basically content at this point to say that well, I know Eevee is mafia, I am sure of it, and I'm not convincing anyone for awhile, so there's not too much I can do there. It's not as if people aren't agreeing to the case -- it's that no one is even freaking responding to it.

[Eevee]

Eevee, could you answer this:

Also everyone, I want your reasons why you are not voting AHoppy, the very player who said he doesn't mind being lynched.

I don't think saying that is a scum trait at all, in fact it's a statement I'd expect town to make more often than scum (and this is not to say I think he is town because of that).

I think Ahoppy got wagoned pretty unfairly yesterday, as far as I can see the main reasons were posting scarcely (something he has always done, when he does post they are on the meatier side though) and "defending me", which was attacking the gaping hole in TA's logic against me (that he had only looked at my scum games and was using the fact I play like I always do as a point against me).

TA, I think you are confusing yourself at this point. I honestly don't see the big point you are making, different day 1's play differently and it makes the reads you get unique every single time (also your own level of participation and general mood on any given day matters a lot). I think people aren't commenting your case because they don't there is any scum to be found with that method. I know I'm not scum anyways.

[faust]

TA, I think you are confusing yourself at this point. I honestly don't see the big point you are making, different day 1's play differently and it makes the reads you get unique every single time (also your own level of participation and general mood on any given day matters a lot). I think people aren't commenting your case because they don't there is any scum to be found with that method. I know I'm not scum anyways.

I have to agree with Eevee here, except for the part where he knows he's not scum.

[Eevee]

Should have left that out so other townies could agree with me, dangit!

[faust]

Faust, what post # is that quote from?

Wouldn't scum mind getting lynched more than town would? I mean, scum wants to avoid getting lynched at all costs, while it's not the absolute worst thing for town if their mislynch helps to catch scum later..

I am not saying this clears Ahoppy at all, but I just don't see how this points to him being scum.

This is the post I'm referring to:

@ #1014I'm actually in agreement with you faust, even if it means my death.  In this game specifically, we have no idea if we even have a cop tonight.  Or if we had one last night.  One of our cops died, and if we only have what, 4-6? so that means we have 3-5 left with no guarantee that the investigations will happen tonight.  I'm not up to running the numbers on it, but I do like a definite way (lynch) to find out an alignment as opposed to a gamble (which, you then have to rely also on the cop's judgement of who to investigate...)

Looking for this also made me realize it's been almost 4 days since AHoppy's last post. Can we get a prod on AHoppy?

And I think neither scum nor town would want to get lynched in this game, but scum is more likely to say it trying to appear townie and selfless.

[Twistedarcher]

Argh, I just lost a long post I typed up, and am super frustrated about it. But basically, Eevee is misrepresenting my case by saying it had a "gaping hole in it" -- I always acknowledged it was incomplete, and never tried to use it to misrepresent Eevee. Saying anything else is a huge discredit to my case.

I feel like people are dismissing the case because of how I presented it, and not because of the actual logic. Saying "TA presented only half of it" shouldn't make a difference -- I was very clear about it, and anyone else was perfectly able to go look at Eevee's town games -- the fact that I didn't immediately should NOT be a strike against the case. Look at the case itself, not my inactivity.

I am pretty sure Eevee is mafia, and at this point it's becoming clear I won't convince anyone else, so I guess I can drop it and then be happy when Eevee flips mafia. Cause no one is interested in going that direction at all, and it's not worth it to try to convince people of something when there's no chance of it.

[Eevee]

I'm totally open to discussing it TA, I do want to convince you I'm town. Can you summarize case in short points (no digging back for quotes etc), in a way that's easily understandable so I can comment?

[Twistedarcher]

Sure. One of your first posts this game was a vote (on me) for something that you considered a "scum trait" (or something in that vein). This is similar to several other scum games, which I dug up and quoted previously.

Normally, I associate D1 Eevee with trying to get a feel for the game, and a lot of your reads coming from your gut. This comes from several games I've played with you, including Innovation and Modern Community (in which you admittedly weren't town, but I feel you were trying to play as town (he was survivor)). Basically, I think that town!Eevee plays from his gut, while scum!Eevee is more likely to dig for traits to pin on people as scummy. I feel that your play this game matches the scum play rather than the town play.

This is a very meta-based argument, so obviously not the easiest to defend, I do get that. But you initially completely ignored my case, and no one really wanted to run anywhere with it -- and while that is certainly possible that it's because I made the case in a haphazard, incomplete way, I do think that a case on scum Eevee is less likely to take off -- especially when it was the biggest case made at that point of D1. Scum would have been willing to jump on that, and maybe they did in the Jimmm/Arch area, but your response, and the fact that no one's really been wanting to head in your direction, reinforces my already strong read a bit.

[pingpongsam]

Well, I'm going to give credence to TA since he is fervently pushing a case. I was a N1 cop and I investigated TA and he turned up a Town result.
I didn't see much utility in divulging this until he started flailing on this case which I'm not wholly impressed by but I admit he is Town. It's also why I gave him a pass on analyzing the D1 wagons wherein he was off-wagon.

[Twistedarcher]

I wish you hadn't claimed until later, but cool I guess.

[faust]

Well, I'm going to give credence to TA since he is fervently pushing a case. I was a N1 cop and I investigated TA and he turned up a Town result.
I didn't see much utility in divulging this until he started flailing on this case which I'm not wholly impressed by but I admit he is Town. It's also why I gave him a pass on analyzing the D1 wagons wherein he was off-wagon.

Vote: pingpongsam.

Let me explain. Right now, we don't know if pps is telling the truth. If he is scum, we obviously want to lynch him. But - should he flip town, we know he told the truth, and we have an IC. Plus, scum can't really kill the IC until they are sure there are no doctor around anymore, which is only after N5. So we get to use an IC all that time . Also, scum will now never kill pps, so the only way we can confirm his claim is if we lynch him. That is done sooner rather than later.

If you're town, sorry. But I do think this is the way to go for us.

[Twistedarcher]

I could not disagree with you more, Faust.

[sudgy]

Looking for this also made me realize it's been almost 4 days since AHoppy's last post. Can we get a prod on AHoppy?

Prod sent.

[Robz888]

Oh, this is what you're going on about?

@ #1014I'm actually in agreement with you faust, even if it means my death.  In this game specifically, we have no idea if we even have a cop tonight.  Or if we had one last night.  One of our cops died, and if we only have what, 4-6? so that means we have 3-5 left with no guarantee that the investigations will happen tonight.  I'm not up to running the numbers on it, but I do like a definite way (lynch) to find out an alignment as opposed to a gamble (which, you then have to rely also on the cop's judgement of who to investigate...)

He was clearly just trying to say that what you were saying made objective sense, not like actually that he should be the lynch.

[Robz888]

Is that L-something on PPS? Let's be careful here.

[faust]

I just looked. It is L-1 I think, but it's been a while since the last vote count.

[Twistedarcher]

Oh shoot, Robz is right. L-1 on PPS, someone please unvote