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[Voltaire]

Fine, "let's lynch AHoppy or Archetype." Is that phrased to your liking?

[Voltaire]

What's the case on Eevee, aside from what TA presented (which is not convincing to me)?

he's a lurker. That is enough. You can't make a case on a lurker, there isn't enough to "make a huge case". Hence why we are voting for him. There a few things, but that is the whole point of lurking as scum... you can't say things that will get you in trouble.

Why him above the other lurkers?

[yuma]

What's the case on Eevee, aside from what TA presented (which is not convincing to me)?

he's a lurker. That is enough. You can't make a case on a lurker, there isn't enough to "make a huge case". Hence why we are voting for him. There a few things, but that is the whole point of lurking as scum... you can't say things that will get you in trouble.

Why him above the other lurkers?

he has four votes, the others have 0 or 1.

[Teproc]

On the reread, Archetype and faust seem like the scummier people to me.

Archetype was here for the theory talk, and then it's just a bunch of safe votes on lurkers.

faust is a little different this game. More agressive, and I just agree less with him in general. Ironically, I think his vote on me is the towniest thing he's done all game. I don't really want to lynch him though, if only because it'd be the fifth time in a row he gets lynched day 1 I think ?

Oh, and I'm a little more confident in my Jimmmmm scumread actually. He was very present for the theory talk, but kind of faded in the background after that. And then I do think his vote on Eevee is scummy.

I'm back to null on yuma, his read on pps is a little weird : he starts by stating a town read, and then finds arguments for it. Might be nothing, but it's a little weird.

I don't think I want to lynch AHoppy. He was pretty consistently the guy trying to get out of the theory talk, which is probably townie. I understand yuma's argument that this is an easy role to take as scum, but AHoppy did it in a way that seemed townie to me.

I don't really have a read on scott_pilgrim but he's new so we won't lynch him anyway, and then everyone else I think is townie for reasons I've already explained (TA, Eevee, Robz, pps). That leaves Voltaire who I haven't commented on, but he seems like his regular town self, so I don't see any reason to lynch him now.

In terms of lynch, here's where I am :

Want to lynch : Jimmmmm, Archetype
Could lynch : AHoppy, yuma, faust
Won't lynch : TA, PPS, Voltaire, Eevee, scott_pilgrim, Robz, chairs

[Teproc]

I guess that first sentence is misleading. They are the ones that my opinion changed on the most while rereading. Obviously I think Jimmmm is scummier than faust still.

[Archetype]

I should be caught up by the end of the day.

[sudgy]

Vote Count 1.5

Robz888 (1): pingpongsam
Twistedarcher (3): Eevee, chairs, scott_pilgrim
Eevee (4): Twistedarcher, Archetype, Jimmmmm, yuma
AHoppy (1): Voltaire
Jimmmmm (1): Teproc
Teproc (1): faust
chairs (1): Robz888

Not Voting (1): AHoppy

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends January 23rd, 12:00 AM.

[pingpongsam]

Robz arrived to make some posts but he did nothing that indicated to me he was town. He made a few weak attempts at eliciting responses from other players but carefully avoided making any significant reads of his own. Now he latches onto the "lynch the lurkers" movement which is strictly the product of lack of information due to lurking of which he was and AFAIC, still is a prime participant in. What's towny about Robz at all?

[Voltaire]

What's towny about Robz at all?

His reverse-meta of being inactive/bad D1 as town.

I would lynch him over no-lynch, but I think he's town right now.

[yuma]

What's towny about Robz at all?

His reverse-meta of being inactive/bad D1 as town.

I would lynch him over no-lynch, but I think he's town right now.

I just can't believe that you think he is town. Robz knows about his self-meta and has constantly in the past tried to use his self-metas to his advantage as scum. Maybe you don't think he is scum, but at the most I think all you can get out of it is null... but not town. Not given his past.

[Voltaire]

What's towny about Robz at all?

His reverse-meta of being inactive/bad D1 as town.

I would lynch him over no-lynch, but I think he's town right now.

I just can't believe that you think he is town. Robz knows about his self-meta and has constantly in the past tried to use his self-metas to his advantage as scum. Maybe you don't think he is scum, but at the most I think all you can get out of it is null... but not town. Not given his past.

They have not been nearly so similar lately as you think. At least not in my mind.

[Archetype]

Alright. Reread the whole thread, but I don't think it's worth my time to make a case on D1 or pull up quotes or anything, so I didn't.

Townie: AHoppy, faust, pingpongsam
Slight Town: Voltaire, Jimmmmm,  yuma
Scummy: Eevee
Slight Scum: Twistedarcher, Teproc, Robz888, chairs
Null: Scotty

If scum, Twistedarcher and Eevee aren't partners.


So...
Want to lynch: Eevee, chairs
Don't mind: Robz888, Teproc, Twistedarcher
Don't care (sorry!): Scotty, Jimmmmm
You'd be pulling my arm for their lynch: AHoppy, faust, PPS, yuma, Voltaire

Also, some random info:

When AHoppy posted his poll...
Only Cops should claim: Ahoppy, Teproc, yuma, Jimmmmm, Archetype

When Faust ran his statistic...
No Lynch: faust, scotty, yuma

Very weird D1. A lot of theory talk, and I generally associate like-mind thinking with Towny, so I probably gave out a little too much town cred to people. This isn't Town Eevee, but I'm not 100% sure it's scum Eevee, which is weird too. Chairs would be a policy lynch if anything. He started out as Towny, but him not posting in awhile makes me a bit wary. AHoppy, faust, and PPS are my top townreads, so I don't want to see them lynched. Yuma and Voltaire have been keeping this thread moving, so I don't want to seem them lynched either. Scotty and Jimmmmm I'm not super sure about. Teproc and Twistedarcher are both giving me the same scummy vibe while Robz888 has just been absent.

I think everyone agrees on how Cops should claim the following day, but just in case...

Claim "Mafia" results immediately. Claim "Town" results before your target reaches L-1 or the Day ends.

[yuma]

What's towny about Robz at all?

His reverse-meta of being inactive/bad D1 as town.

I would lynch him over no-lynch, but I think he's town right now.

I just can't believe that you think he is town. Robz knows about his self-meta and has constantly in the past tried to use his self-metas to his advantage as scum. Maybe you don't think he is scum, but at the most I think all you can get out of it is null... but not town. Not given his past.

They have not been nearly so similar lately as you think. At least not in my mind.

Sorry, I don't quite follow.

[AHoppy]

I've got about 5 pages to catch up on, which I'm planning on doing right now.  If anything vital is going on right now, let me know.

[AHoppy]

Alright.  I'm caught up.  But nothing really jumps out at me as being super scummy.  I don't really like TA's case on Eevee.  I mean, I see where he is coming from, but it kinda feels like he is tunneling Eevee, with not a whole lot of great reasoning to back it up.  It is probably the most substantiated case, I just don't think the reasoning is sound and I don't think the data was collected fairly (not looking at his town play to see if it really is different).  Kinda feels like scum trying to push through an easy mis-lynch making his reasoning look really good with quotes from 2 separate games to back it up.  Just smells kinda fishy to me.  However, like others have said, I'm not comfortable lynching our top poster, especially considering his early play came across as quite towny to me.    This was the biggest thing that stuck out to me as I was catching up.  I'm ok with lynching a lurker ('cept me of course).  My excuse?  As I have said in every game I've played (I believe... correct me if I'm wrong) I really don't like D1.  I don't seem to want to give chairs the towncred everyone else does for "forgetting the game", and I have been burned by mislynching Archetype on at least one occasion, and I don't want to axe Eevee because I don't agree with TA's case.  Robz seems townier here to me, because I believe he has said himself that he doesn't care as much about the games he plays as town.  And that's the vibe I'm getting here.  Long story short vote: chairs

I do want to go back and re-read Jimmmm because I don't really remember anything he has done... But it's late, so maybe later. Keeping my eye on him.

[faust]

Claim "Mafia" results immediately. Claim "Town" results before your target reaches L-1 or the Day ends.

Not sure I agree on this. If you are going to claim a town result before the Day ends anyway, why wouldn't you just claim it immediately?

[faust]

If it comes down to "lynch a lurker" today, count me out. I will not just vote semi-randomly.

[Eevee]

Claim "Mafia" results immediately. Claim "Town" results before your target reaches L-1 or the Day ends.

Not sure I agree on this. If you are going to claim a town result before the Day ends anyway, why wouldn't you just claim it immediately?

Because you'll get half a day worth of natural reactions and information from waiting. Scum doesn't know who you copped.

[faust]

Claim "Mafia" results immediately. Claim "Town" results before your target reaches L-1 or the Day ends.

Not sure I agree on this. If you are going to claim a town result before the Day ends anyway, why wouldn't you just claim it immediately?

Because you'll get half a day worth of natural reactions and information from waiting. Scum doesn't know who you copped.

Yes, and you also get half a Day without an IC when you could have one. What information do you think we can get out of waiting? Do you mean those suspecting the target look scummy? Because they don't, if the target got copped, the reason was probably that the new IC did appear scummy.

[Eevee]

Claim "Mafia" results immediately. Claim "Town" results before your target reaches L-1 or the Day ends.

Not sure I agree on this. If you are going to claim a town result before the Day ends anyway, why wouldn't you just claim it immediately?

Because you'll get half a day worth of natural reactions and information from waiting. Scum doesn't know who you copped.

Yes, and you also get half a Day without an IC when you could have one. What information do you think we can get out of waiting? Do you mean those suspecting the target look scummy? Because they don't, if the target got copped, the reason was probably that the new IC did appear scummy.

The effect is indeed stronger when you've found mafia, and every cop should obviously defer to their best judgement, but I personally think the new info is worth the delay. You basically get to see two slightly different days play out, which I think equips town with better tools for solving the puzzle.

[faust]

Well, fine. Everyone should just take care that we have enough time to evaluate the information and choose our lynch target accordingly, which might be problematic if the claim comes at the end of the Day. Plus, not claiming immediately gives scum more liberty to time their fakeclaim.

[Jimmmmm]

I think everyone agrees on how Cops should claim the following day, but just in case...

Claim "Mafia" results immediately. Claim "Town" results before your target reaches L-1 or the Day ends.

I disagree. I think you can get more out of a Day than if you just claim immediately.

[Teproc]

I agree with Eevee and Jimmmmm. The way Jimmmmm did it in Chocolate Factory was good I think. That was a scum result, but I think the same reasoning applies with a town result.

[Twistedarcher]

Something came up and I won't be able to get on through deadline, sorry.

Id like to note:
Eevee hasn't really responded to the case.

The disagreements with the case have generally been very vague and unsatisfactory to me. Faust had the most reasonable response (and I'm sorry I couldn't get to the legwork, if someone else could that would be amazing). I strongly disagree with ahoppy's defense, which to be kinda boils down to I made a case on eevee, so I'm tunneling him, so he can't be scum. Seriously, look at ahoppy's response.  There's absolutely no defense for the content, he just doesn't basically like how I made the case, but cases are how we catch scum people. You're all floating around in "this person feels scummy to me" land and we now have enough evidence to move into, you know, actual reasons for voting people.

Go back and look at all the lukewarm defenses of eevee, and I hope there will be enough votes on him by deadline. Sorry I won't be around.

[Eevee]

Okay, reading through TA's case again, here is a link to the post:

What I see is you first describing your impression of my town meta, then quoting two posts from my past scum games that both match that meta perfectly, and then saying "and he is appearing like that again". You know, when you vote without reasons, people always ask "why?", so might as well write the reason for your vote in the original post already? Yes, it's often me describing something that's a scum trait for me and voting for someone who is doing that, but what do you want me to do? It's often hard for me to put the reasons for my votes in words (especially as town), and I do get that they might seem vague or generic, but that's much better than giving no reasons at all. (And faking reasons as scum is easy, people see the game so different to each other you can appear convinced about almost anything without seeming too suspect.. one example being the scumminess of Eevee in this game!).

I AM trying to get a feel of this game, which is damn hard when all we talk about is theory and we don't have ashersky around making people chase each others tails.