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Author Topic: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (Mafia win flawlessly)  (Read 143582 times)

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pingpongsam

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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #400 on: January 16, 2014, 09:48:49 pm »

I mean I was like 30 minutes into with a page full of quotes when the impossibility of it became clear.
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yuma

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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #401 on: January 16, 2014, 10:18:28 pm »

I mean I was like 30 minutes into with a page full of quotes when the impossibility of it became clear.

would you mind posting it anyways and what pinpointed your change of heart?
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faust

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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #402 on: January 17, 2014, 07:16:46 am »

I can't quite remember, but I think I mentioned that No Lynch is something I'm not a fan of. Makes it harder for Docs/Cops to choose someone, and like yuma said it restarts D1 in a sense.

Not sure I understand this correctly. You are saying that no-lynch makes it harder for PRs to choose, but that's not a good reason to lynch someone. Cops want to target scum, Docs want to target the scum target. Both only gets easier if we mislynch, not if we lynch scum. And a mislynch means we lose one of our PRs. So the remaining PRs might have a slightly better chance to target the right person, but we have one PR less that can target, which balances that out.
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faust

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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #403 on: January 17, 2014, 07:17:43 am »

I find it interesting that pps never replied to this:

I pointed out to the main proponent and progenitor of the motion to no-lynch that no-lynch is generally a scum suggestion and the game has devolved into a wait for D1 to end so we can see who dies first tonight.

This this is all I could find that you said about no lynch:

Actually, I originally suggested it. You liked it and actually argued for it. It was a scum trap that just barely didn't work. The whole plan was to get someone to look scummy as hell for arguing for no-lynch. If they succeeded even better.

I don't think anything in this post says "no lynch is generally scum suggestion". It refers to RMM12. This is not RMM12, and we work under different premises. What I get from the post is more "people arguing for no lynch can easily be painted as scummy". And look at what you're doing.
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Teproc

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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #404 on: January 17, 2014, 07:25:39 am »

Not sure I understand this correctly. You are saying that no-lynch makes it harder for PRs to choose, but that's not a good reason to lynch someone. Cops want to target scum, Docs want to target the scum target. Both only gets easier if we mislynch, not if we lynch scum. And a mislynch means we lose one of our PRs. So the remaining PRs might have a slightly better chance to target the right person, but we have one PR less that can target, which balances that out.

Bolded for emphasis.

What ? Targeting scum is easier for Cops if we lynch correctly than if we mislynch because they can look at interactions. I guess it's harder in the sense that there are less scum to target, but we have a lot more info that way.
And it ALSO gets easier for Docs to protect because the people pushing the hardest for the correct lynch will be the obvious targets for scum to NK.
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faust

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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #405 on: January 17, 2014, 08:18:00 am »

Not sure I understand this correctly. You are saying that no-lynch makes it harder for PRs to choose, but that's not a good reason to lynch someone. Cops want to target scum, Docs want to target the scum target. Both only gets easier if we mislynch, not if we lynch scum. And a mislynch means we lose one of our PRs. So the remaining PRs might have a slightly better chance to target the right person, but we have one PR less that can target, which balances that out.

Bolded for emphasis.

What ? Targeting scum is easier for Cops if we lynch correctly than if we mislynch because they can look at interactions. I guess it's harder in the sense that there are less scum to target, but we have a lot more info that way.
And it ALSO gets easier for Docs to protect because the people pushing the hardest for the correct lynch will be the obvious targets for scum to NK.

It is harder for both in the sense that the scum/town ratio decreases. Now of course there will be interactions and stuff, but if we have a good scum team, they can easily fake stuff and bus and so on.
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pingpongsam

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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #406 on: January 17, 2014, 09:22:40 am »

I mean I was like 30 minutes into with a page full of quotes when the impossibility of it became clear.

would you mind posting it anyways and what pinpointed your change of heart?

I must be losing my mind. Last night in bed I felt that I saw my paranoid delusions for what they were. Now, as I try to relate how I came to my senses I'm seeing the bogey man once again.

There is the premise operating here that scum will select a couple of targets to maybe work their meta for a D1 mislynch. The Jimmmmm/faust interaction on the mass-claim that got my first vote felt like the bad cop setup and then TA came in and played good cop saying massclaims are indeed bad but faust is town anyway.

His next dozen or so posts are theory which I happen to agree with (and is where I got into thinking I must be wrong about him last night). Eevee suggests that his level of participation could be scummy a notion I can agree with becaue as scum I try to control perceptions, myself.  I threw a joke in there he supposedly didn't follow but very shortly later I get a vote from TA for it and immediately followed by a Voltaire vote that seemed a OMGUR(rock) for qualifying Voltaire as town which seemed very much like a control of perception. That is, that TA was garnering sheep votes for telling people they were towny .

TA then votes yuma for looking at my wagon instead of joining it which coincides with the premise that scum has a D1 target to work and attempts to circumvent must be punished. Might as well use the punishment as a small reward for the target by using the yuma vote to say I now look townier. I read this as maybe I can be coaxed into sheeping TA too, you know, to avoid the obvious influence he just wielded on me. Oh, look the tide turns towards yuma first with Jimmmm suddenly suggesting yuma could be scum and then Teproc following that with a vote.

Eevee is game to analyze this and it isn't going in the sheep direction TA needs it to so he tells Eevee that Eevee isn't playing from his gut like he usually does. Having played scum vs Eevee I can tell you Eevee gut reads me wrong everytime despite some decent evidence to the contrary. Here is the appeal to the gut to shut down the intellectual recognition.

yuma resumes playing The Game in what appears to be rather towny light and Teproc parrots the formerly issued by TA directive that looking at the PPS wagon is bad play. Nevermind that's where TA's vote sits.

TA mostly drops out at this point. The plan is in motion. Teproc is carrying the torch for him. If we're not going to lynch the target we're going to get no-lynch.

Disclaimer: Yes, it's all conspiracy theory and comes from what can easily be construed as a victim mentality. However, I think the lens itself isn't completely insane, I feel there is a tangible thread in there. I'm not claiming any scum teams nor am I claiming certainty of TA's alignment.
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faust

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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #407 on: January 17, 2014, 09:43:40 am »

This is a little unclear to me; pingpongsam, how are your reads at this point?

One thing I just realized is that scum might not try to be a leading voice in this game. Leading voices are generally the ones that tend to be investigated, right? So in the end, the way pingpongsam throws himself into the center of debate here comes across as something scum would want to avoid. I still find the way he plays irritating, but I guess he's more likely town.
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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #408 on: January 17, 2014, 10:01:31 am »

chairs is so out of this game that he thinks he's not in it. Let's wake him up.

vote: chairs
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pingpongsam

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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #409 on: January 17, 2014, 10:22:09 am »

I find it interesting that pps never replied to this:

I pointed out to the main proponent and progenitor of the motion to no-lynch that no-lynch is generally a scum suggestion and the game has devolved into a wait for D1 to end so we can see who dies first tonight.

This this is all I could find that you said about no lynch:

Actually, I originally suggested it. You liked it and actually argued for it. It was a scum trap that just barely didn't work. The whole plan was to get someone to look scummy as hell for arguing for no-lynch. If they succeeded even better.

I don't think anything in this post says "no lynch is generally scum suggestion". It refers to RMM12. This is not RMM12, and we work under different premises. What I get from the post is more "people arguing for no lynch can easily be painted as scummy". And look at what you're doing.

I didn't know it needed a response. You were right. Is that what you wanted to hear? I was, without any intended ambiguity, stating that my experience suggests that promoting no-lynch is a great scum tool. I related my experience to RMM12 because yuma directly referenced RMM12. My larger point being that I had very successfully, as scum, convinced a Townie to actually argue the no-lynch idea I promoted so strongly he had lost sight of where it originated. Ultimately, that Townie was cast in a suspicious light for the remainder of the game.

Arguing for no-lynch is, IMO, a scum thing to do. It's very easy to get behind. Once it has mass appeal as it does now then scum can jump out from behind it and use this kind of reverse psychology.

I against no-lynch but I am relatively comfortable with how we got there because it gives me a better sense of where to be targeting my night action.
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faust

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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #410 on: January 17, 2014, 10:26:07 am »

I against no-lynch but I am relatively comfortable with how we got there because it gives me a better sense of where to be targeting my night action.

Policy vote: pingpongsam.
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Teproc

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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #411 on: January 17, 2014, 10:27:28 am »

Huh ?

What's worth policy voting here ? Everyone has a night action you know.
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Eevee

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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #412 on: January 17, 2014, 10:28:11 am »

I dont understand this fight at all. Townread on both though, bigger on PPS.
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pingpongsam

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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #413 on: January 17, 2014, 10:34:13 am »

This is a little unclear to me; pingpongsam, how are your reads at this point?

One thing I just realized is that scum might not try to be a leading voice in this game. Leading voices are generally the ones that tend to be investigated, right? So in the end, the way pingpongsam throws himself into the center of debate here comes across as something scum would want to avoid. I still find the way he plays irritating, but I guess he's more likely town.

I'm reading you specifically to be an abrasive and inquisitive townie. I keep waffling on TA, if I put the TA is scum lens on it comes out pretty scummy. I am finding Jimmmmm to be inscrutable and so I don't think he is a willing participant in a TA conspiracy. I would say that if TA is scum then it is likely that so is Teproc because that does fit the theory. If TA comes out clean then I have a hard time seeing Teproc as scum. I think yuma is Town. I think Voltaire is town. I am more null but leaning town on Eevee and AHoppy. scott_pilgrim I am largely null on. He looks like Town to me but I have no meta on that guy and there is an almost pretentious gullibility I am picking up. Robz and chairs are absent so I don't have reads. chairs has at least posted and has been viewed suspiciously but I haven't really agreed with any of it enough to change my vote off of Robz who terrifies me if he is scum and I really want around as Town yet he's not playing the game to date.

If scum isn't actively controlling this day then they are lackadaisically waiting for it to end.

I think that was everybody, if not then I missed
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pingpongsam

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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #414 on: January 17, 2014, 10:35:08 am »

I against no-lynch but I am relatively comfortable with how we got there because it gives me a better sense of where to be targeting my night action.

Policy vote: pingpongsam.

Yo, you're policy voting the guy who is voting another player which is a testament to the fact that he is actively against no-lynch?
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pingpongsam

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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #415 on: January 17, 2014, 10:35:43 am »

*So
not "Yo", hehe
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Voltaire

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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #416 on: January 17, 2014, 10:40:51 am »

Can we get the OP updated with the current roster of players?
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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (Signups full!)
« Reply #417 on: January 17, 2014, 11:49:45 am »

Vote Count 1.3

Robz888 (2): pingpongsam, AHoppy
pingpongsam (2): Voltaire, faust
faust (1): yuma
Twistedarcher (1): Eevee
yuma (1): Twistedarcher
chairs (2): Archetype, Teproc
Archetype (1): Jimmmmm
No Lynch (1): scott_pilgrim

Not Voting (2): Robz888, chairs

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends January 23rd, 12:00 AM.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 11:55:34 am by sudgy »
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Teproc

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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #418 on: January 17, 2014, 11:53:18 am »

Pretty sure faust is voting PPS, not Robz.
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Twistedarcher

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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #419 on: January 17, 2014, 11:57:00 am »

Pps, do you believe in conspiracy theories generally? Cause that's a pretty crazy one.

Crux of the case is that I'm scum trying to set up mislynches by pointing out scummy things. Well yeah, I am pointing out scummy things, because I want to find out who scum is, and scum do scummy things! (But unfortunately so do town, meh)
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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #420 on: January 17, 2014, 12:02:17 pm »

By the way, you called about four partners for me there. Faust/jimmmm for the good cop setup, eevee for me coaching him, and teproc. Which ones are really my partners?

I also want to reiterate again. You said you were giving me a town read initially for agreeing with my theory. Just because you agree with someone on their theory does not mean they are town!!!!
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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #421 on: January 17, 2014, 12:04:19 pm »

I think pps doesn't believe in the conspiracy theory, it's something he wrote and realized wasn't holding up halfway through, right ?

It's useful because his attitude does make a little more sense now I guess.

I still don't get faust's "policy vote" on pps.
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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #422 on: January 17, 2014, 12:04:51 pm »

Pps, I feel that you are viewing the game through a lens of only what is happening to you, but you gotta keep in mind that there's 12 other people out there. If you're town, viewing the game through the lens of "whoever wants to mislynch ME must be the scum" is not good. Why do you feel that scum would want to mislynch you over any other particular town member?
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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #423 on: January 17, 2014, 12:05:22 pm »

I think he changed his mind back again, teproc.
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Re: MXXXVII - Diffusion of Power (D1)
« Reply #424 on: January 17, 2014, 12:09:18 pm »

Well, if he has, I'll point out something that I think is very wrong with this theory : I do not believe for a second that scum picks targets for day 1. Has a scum team ever done this ? My only scum game so far had daychat, so I guess it's not representative, but I can't fathom why you would do this as a scumteam on day 1. Sure, some people are always going to be "easy" mislynches (Morgrim, Archetype, mail-mi, faust recently), but mostly scum is looking to get a feel for the game. Picking targets is something they can do later in the game, but not day 1.
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