Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Twistedarcher]

I think Eevee was making a joke?

Meh, tone is hard on the Internet

[chairs]

I can see the argument TA makes on yuma.  The tricky part is that yuma is such a good player for either side, that I'd be hard-pressed to lynch him D1 when instead we might lynch someone who's a less useful later-days Town player.  However, that's a relatively damning argument (for D1).

Hrm.

I'm intrigued at the concept of no-lynch as well, because it gives our N1 Cop(s) and Doc(s) (if any exist) an opportunity to burn their power and potentially get some results, hopefully with a doc saving us from the NK.  The more cop results we can get with successful doctorings, the more we can reduce our pool, etc. - it's too bad we can't come up with a mechanism that lets us know what days we have docs on without revealing our doctors (and I've -really- thought about it, couldn't come up with anything safe), because if we knew we could have the appropriate cops claim those Days to be doctored.

The big disadvantage there is that NKs will always be Town, whereas lynches can be Mafia...

Reading through mafiascum games now.

[Archetype]

I'm usually in favor of D1 No Lynches, but not here. I think a lynch is vital in determining who N1 Cops should investigate and N1 Docs to protect. If we no lynch it decreases the effectiveness of those roles working.


Vote: chairs. His "(if they exist)" sort of rubbed me the wrong way. Not RVS, but not super serious either.

[Jimmmmm]

Vote: Arch

His "Not RVS, but not super serious either." rubbed me the wrong way.

[Teproc]

Vote: chairs. His "(if they exist)" sort of rubbed me the wrong way. Not RVS, but not super serious either.

... Why ?

By the way, I understand I'm coming in a bit late to the theory talk, but I do think the "rolling 1 to 5" plan is good, and it only works if everyone agrees to it. As I explained above, I don't think TA's objection is a problem at all, and I don't see much else that would be wrong with it.

[Jimmmmm]

Vote: chairs. His "(if they exist)" sort of rubbed me the wrong way. Not RVS, but not super serious either.

... Why ?

By the way, I understand I'm coming in a bit late to the theory talk, but I do think the "rolling 1 to 5" plan is good, and it only works if everyone agrees to it. As I explained above, I don't think TA's objection is a problem at all, and I don't see much else that would be wrong with it.

I don't think it's going to happen, and regardless of whether it's a good plan, at this point I think it's unhelpful to keep pushing for it.

[Teproc]

I disagree. Theory talk isn't the most productive thing as far as helping out with reads and such, but it is still useful, and we do have longer deadlines in this game (14 days instead of 10).

[yuma]

Vote: chairs. His "(if they exist)" sort of rubbed me the wrong way. Not RVS, but not super serious either.

... Why ?

By the way, I understand I'm coming in a bit late to the theory talk, but I do think the "rolling 1 to 5" plan is good, and it only works if everyone agrees to it. As I explained above, I don't think TA's objection is a problem at all, and I don't see much else that would be wrong with it.

I have actually come to dislike this plan, but for a reason I don't think anyone has stated yet.

It is thus: that a doctor pretending to have a town result may actually make a mafia appear to be town for that day. Or the inverse, the fear of this will cause people to suspect someone who a cop says is town for fear that the claiming player is a doc and is wrong... all of this speculation obviously goes away once said player dies... but until that point we are left w/o concrete information.

To be clear here is an example:

Night1: Doc ashersky roles himself a 3. So day3 comes around and he says, "I investigated Insomniac last night." He doesn't know it, but Insomniac is mafia and now everyone will think that there is a pretty good chance that Insomniac is in fact town, at least until ashersky dies, which may or may not happen soon...

Or the inverse:

Night1: jotheonah is a day2 cop. So day2 comes around and he says, "I investigated CaptainFrisk last night." He knows it, but CaptainFrisk is in fact town, but because this isn't verifiable because town doesn't know that jotheonah is actually a cop and there isn't a way to distinguish him from a doc claiming to be a cop. The only way to verify it is to have jotheonah die, which may or may not happen soon...

see the problem?

I am thinking that cops should just immediately claim results when they get them. Docs just shouldn't say anything.

[yuma]

I agree that yuma's wagon analysis is scummy. At the very least it's wrong, because some people like Robz or myself have not voted because we were absent more than anything else. In fact, the more I think about it, the less I believe town!yuma would do something like that.

vote: yuma

I fail to see how two players not voting affects three other players voting patterns....

Look, I am not saying there is certainly scum on the PPS wagon (or what was the wagon at the time), but rather that if I were asked that is where I would expect to find at least one. I don't see the problem with that sort of a statement. Add that to my already slight suspicions of faust... and you have my vote. Why can't you see town!yuma seeing something and then expressing his opinion about it?

[Teproc]

This has in fact been mentioned by TA and I don't think it's a big deal at all. To me, the point of the plan is only to get valuable info once people die, not to actually trust it before that. Basically we would just ignore those resulsts until we know for sure that someone is a cop or a doc through a flip.

PPE : I was referring to what you said about there being scum in the players not voting. I don't know, your reasoning just felt off and it semeed like you were jumping to conclusions.

[yuma]

To me it is a huge deal. Reacting immediately to something like that is a big deal. Plus anyone with a result is then put into perpetual limbo. They obviously aren't going to be lynched right? Until we can confirm it... so we should what? Lynch the person giving out the result?

I say, get the results out, be as straightforward as possible and lessen the confusion. Confusion is only going to help mafia.

[yuma]

PPE : I was referring to what you said about there being scum in the players not voting. I don't know, your reasoning just felt off and it semeed like you were jumping to conclusions.

There were 3 players voting for PPS, 3 players (1 was me, so 2 from my perspective) and 7 not voting...

So saying that "1 is likely voting for PPS and then 1 or 2 not voting" doesn't seem to be that extreme of an idea...

Or do you think that all of the scum was currently voting at that vote count? your lynch pool should be quite small then....

[yuma]

Looking for scum on a wagon, rather than trying to access if the wagon is correct, is something that scum do more than town.

But while we are discussing this, let's also discuss this:

Throwing out blanket statements, rather than providing evidence to show it as such, is something that scum do more than town.

Pretty sure this is wrong.

Pretty sure I don't care whether it was right or wrong...

[Jimmmmm]

I disagree. Theory talk isn't the most productive thing as far as helping out with reads and such, but it is still useful, and we do have longer deadlines in this game (14 days instead of 10).

We've already had a fair bit of theory talk. We've gone back and forth on different plans and I think most of us have come to the conclusion that at least for now claiming should be done only by Cops with a result. I think we should leave it at that instead of filling more pages up with theory talk, which is actually what scum tries to do sometimes.

[Teproc]

I'm not saying you're wrong, statistically you're probably right but it would be like me saying "if you look at the people whose name start with A-L, there's probably one scum". Sure, that's likely to be true, but it's not based on anything concrete and doesn't help in any way. Basically the fact that people aren't voting at this stage on the game is not really indicative on alignment in my mind.

Is it really that hard to just have those people claim targets and keep it in mind for later ? If a Cop has a scum result of course he should claim it, but I don't see what's "confusing" about the plan. To me the only problem is it helps scum POE their nightkill a little (they want to kill future cops, who aren't going to be claiming a result after night 1).

[Teproc]

Yeah yeah, I would agree with you Jimmmmm, it's just that, with the replacement situation, I wasn't actually there and fel frustrated when people moved away from the plan. It won't happen apparently, so I'll drop it.

[yuma]

Is it really that hard to just have those people claim targets and keep it in mind for later ? If a Cop has a scum result of course he should claim it, but I don't see what's "confusing" about the plan. To me the only problem is it helps scum POE their nightkill a little (they want to kill future cops, who aren't going to be claiming a result after night 1).

What is confusing... or rather, what the problem is that this has the potential to remove a scum player from the lynch pool... due to town lying! this is a problem!!! It causes a disadvantage to town and thus should not even be considered...

[AHoppy]

I disagree. Theory talk isn't the most productive thing as far as helping out with reads and such, but it is still useful, and we do have longer deadlines in this game (14 days instead of 10).

We've already had a fair bit of theory talk. We've gone back and forth on different plans and I think most of us have come to the conclusion that at least for now claiming should be done only by Cops with a result. I think we should leave it at that instead of filling more pages up with theory talk, which is actually what scum tries to do sometimes.

Thank you.  Therefore I suggest this: in everyones next post, please vote for which plan you think is best:

Claim all roles (no days) today
Cops and Docs claim with results
only cops claim with results
Some weird number rolling thing

I for one, Vote: only cops should claim
(voting in italics to not confuse real votes)
Once everyone has chimed in, I say we go with the plan with the most votes.  We need some solidarity for any plan to work, and I don't want any confusion over what we are all doing.

[Teproc]

Is it really that hard to just have those people claim targets and keep it in mind for later ? If a Cop has a scum result of course he should claim it, but I don't see what's "confusing" about the plan. To me the only problem is it helps scum POE their nightkill a little (they want to kill future cops, who aren't going to be claiming a result after night 1).

What is confusing... or rather, what the problem is that this has the potential to remove a scum player from the lynch pool... due to town lying! this is a problem!!! It causes a disadvantage to town and thus should not even be considered...

You're not reading my posts, are you ?

[Teproc]

Well the polling optiongs aren't biased at all, that's great. Whatever, I'll vote : only cops should claim, since that's the next best thing.

[AHoppy]

Well the polling optiongs aren't biased at all, that's great. Whatever, I'll vote : only cops should claim, since that's the next best thing.

What do you suggest?  These were the main Ideas I saw, so if you want another option, shoot.

[AHoppy]

Well the polling optiongs aren't biased at all, that's great. Whatever, I'll vote : only cops should claim, since that's the next best thing.

What do you suggest?  These were the main Ideas I saw, so if you want another option, shoot.

And if it's about me saying "some weird rolling thing" that's because I don't really understand it and I don't know how to describe it.  If you can do it better, please do.

[Jimmmmm]

I disagree. Theory talk isn't the most productive thing as far as helping out with reads and such, but it is still useful, and we do have longer deadlines in this game (14 days instead of 10).

We've already had a fair bit of theory talk. We've gone back and forth on different plans and I think most of us have come to the conclusion that at least for now claiming should be done only by Cops with a result. I think we should leave it at that instead of filling more pages up with theory talk, which is actually what scum tries to do sometimes.

Thank you. (continues with theory talk and suggests others do the same)

[Teproc]

I was referring to the "some weird number rolling thing". You do see how that doesn't seem like a particularly attractive thing to vote for ?

PPE : Jimmmm : to be fair, he is trying to end the theory talk with an actual decision, rather than just getting past it without actually reaching consensus. I don't think there's actually a contradiction here.

AHoppy : I just felt the "weird" qualifier obviously showed you disapproved of it, which is not something you should do if you want your poll to look serious. It's not actually a big deal since it's not happening either way.

[yuma]

Is it really that hard to just have those people claim targets and keep it in mind for later ? If a Cop has a scum result of course he should claim it, but I don't see what's "confusing" about the plan. To me the only problem is it helps scum POE their nightkill a little (they want to kill future cops, who aren't going to be claiming a result after night 1).

What is confusing... or rather, what the problem is that this has the potential to remove a scum player from the lynch pool... due to town lying! this is a problem!!! It causes a disadvantage to town and thus should not even be considered...

You're not reading my posts, are you ?

No. I am just being a belligerent pain in the ass on purpose with the sole purpose of ticking you off...

or maybe your posts aren't easy to understand and I am confused...

nah... has to be the first right?