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[Archetype]

basically i think the only claiming that should be done all game is cops with scum results. no claiming any other time, including at L-1.

Disagree. Cops should claim even if they get a Town result.

[yuma]

basically i think the only claiming that should be done all game is cops with scum results. no claiming any other time, including at L-1.

Disagree. Cops should claim even if they get a Town result.

why? Faust had the brilliant idea that if everyone says at the start of day who they would have targeted then we can preserve that data for later.

Say I am a Night 2 cop. At the start of Day 3 I say that I targeted xeiron.

If I get lynched day3 or killed night3 people can go back and see that since I said I targeted xeiron and didn't /out him as scum, he must be town...

[yuma]

oh shoot, that doesn't work....

nights don't flip right?

There has to be another way to get that or something like that to work though...

[AHoppy]

basically i think the only claiming that should be done all game is cops with scum results. no claiming any other time, including at L-1.

Disagree. Cops should claim even if they get a Town result.

Catching up, but the way I'm viewing this game is changing with this discussion and I'm leaning towards the no claim camp. If cops claim when they get a town result though, scum knows that player is no longer a threat PoEing the useful cops remaining.

Also, to echo shraeye since he isn't in this game: I would like to remind everyone that pages upon pages of DQ theory talk does not equate to scum hunting, clutters up the thread and just helps scum. That being said, I understand that with this semi-open (I think that's what you can call it?) Setup the theory talk is more useful than closed. And so far it hasn't gotten out of hand. Just warning for the rest of the day.

[Archetype]

I'm starting to lean towards no massclaim as well, at least for D1 and despite my thinking earlier. I do, however, strongly believe Cops should claim upon receiving any kind of result. They and their target become near conf!Town, which scum are going to want to kill anyway. Plus it gives the Docs someone to protect. Faust's plan would work, but like yuma said people only flip as Cop or Doc. So I don't think there is a way to get that to work.

[yuma]

I'm starting to lean towards no massclaim as well, at least for D1 and despite my thinking earlier. I do, however, strongly believe Cops should claim upon receiving any kind of result. They and their target become near conf!Town, which scum are going to want to kill anyway. Plus it gives the Docs someone to protect. Faust's plan would work, but like yuma said people only flip as Cop or Doc. So I don't think there is a way to get that to work.

a lack of flavor prevents us from doing a "if my flavor name starts with X I am a day Y" sort of thing, which is probably for the best... those sort of strats are starting to be slightly abused...

But there might be another way, we just need to think of one.... Or maybe there isn't one...

[Jimmmmm]

oh shoot, that doesn't work....

nights don't flip right?

There has to be another way to get that or something like that to work though...

Each Doctor could randomly decide a number from 1 to 5, and then after that Night say "If I'm a Cop, I targeted so-and-so last Night", and Cops could say the same thing after receiving a Town result.

[Jimmmmm]

Also, to echo shraeye since he isn't in this game: I would like to remind everyone that pages upon pages of DQ theory talk does not equate to scum hunting, clutters up the thread and just helps scum. That being said, I understand that with this semi-open (I think that's what you can call it?) Setup the theory talk is more useful than closed. And so far it hasn't gotten out of hand. Just warning for the rest of the day.

I understand and agree with you, but also think that a few pages of theory is better than crickets. Of course we want to transition to full-time scumhunting pretty soon. I welcome you to start us off with reads and/or cases, and I'll do the same at some point.

[faust]

oh shoot, that doesn't work....

nights don't flip right?

There has to be another way to get that or something like that to work though...

Each Doctor could randomly decide a number from 1 to 5, and then after that Night say "If I'm a Cop, I targeted so-and-so last Night", and Cops could say the same thing after receiving a Town result.

I think I like this idea, unless someone can come up with a better one.

[Eevee]

Okay, so I'm caught up, but theory talk just isn't my niche, and it's hard to do any social deduction from everyone talking theory.

That being said, I maintain that the guys who are being sensible are more likely to be scum than those introducing radical ideas. Changing your mind from discussion is a town trait as well, I think.

If you want my opinion on theory, I think no claiming at all for day 1 and let's go from there. We should do whatever we can to get as many cop investigations in as possible, they are our strength in this setup.

[Eevee]

Vote: TwistedArcher

It does help to move the game towards social deduction if people start voting. This is unfair because TA really made some good points, but the way he laid them out, all sense-making and noncontroversial, is just how scum likes to blend in in my opinion.

As I get more experienced with mafia, I too am starting to suffer from a case of Robziaitis, which is caring less and less how others view you or your alignment, and more and more about just doing what you think will work.

[faust]

chairs has replaced mail-mi.  Thread will open in several hours.

This isn't strong evidence, but I think if chairs was mafia, sudgy would have given him some more time to talk to his scumbuddies.

[yuma]

chairs has replaced mail-mi.  Thread will open in several hours.

This isn't strong evidence, but I think if chairs was mafia, sudgy would have given him some more time to talk to his scumbuddies.

It is horrible evidence.

We don't know when chairs subbed in or when he was given the QT for the mafia. It may have been when sudgy typed this up, it may have been hours before... 12 hours elapsed between the time that sudgy announced a need for a sub and announcing game start...

or maybe chairs as scum said he didn't need the time and was ok with a start (I would do this as a sub and seeing I was mafia for the town cred that would come from someone thinking like you)

So it all comes out as null to me.

[Voltaire]

That being said, I maintain that the guys who are being sensible are more likely to be scum than those introducing radical ideas. Changing your mind from discussion is a town trait as well, I think.

I agree with this. It gives me a small town read on faust.

Has chairs posted yet? I don't think so. vote: chairs.

[chairs]

Sorry I've been absent, I'll be reading and posting my thoughts tonight.

[Voltaire]

oh shoot, that doesn't work....

nights don't flip right?

There has to be another way to get that or something like that to work though...

Each Doctor could randomly decide a number from 1 to 5, and then after that Night say "If I'm a Cop, I targeted so-and-so last Night", and Cops could say the same thing after receiving a Town result.

I think this is good? Does anyone see flaws I don't? I might argue that N1 or N2 docs roll numbers between 3-5, for example, to increase the odds they live as a VT to be NKed by mafia. If they actually stop the kill on 1 or 2 they can just claim then (if that's for the best) and town is never confused. This is a good thing, right? Good modification to the plan?

I also think players should claim their night at L-1 and nothing else, but that everyone must claim their night. It maximizes our information post-flip given the whole "If I were a Cop..." situation. Cool?

Again, theory makes my head hurt. Let me know if I'm missing anything obvious.

Also small town read on Archetype, I think, in addition to faust. Null on everyone else.

[Voltaire]

I also think players should claim their night at L-1 and nothing else, but that everyone must claim their night.

To be clear, I'm only talking about players at L-1 with intent to hammer. I don't think this should affect our lynching decision at all, rather we should let the person have a chance to say it in case they're town and have results we can later see.

[Twistedarcher]

Eevee, that's kinda a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation, isn't it? I get what you're saying, and to be fair, a lot of my thoughts on setup were formed well before the game ever started, but are you really saying that you think I wouldn't act that way as town?

[Voltaire]

Eevee, that's kinda a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation, isn't it? I get what you're saying, and to be fair, a lot of my thoughts on setup were formed well before the game ever started, but are you really saying that you think I wouldn't act that way as town?

I think what Eevee is saying is that it makes you more likely to be scum, not that you are scum. I personally disagree with Eevee about you specifically (you behaved this way with the Hider plan in Clue as town), but I understand Eevee's vote.

So what I'm saying is that you're null for all of this.

[Eevee]

Eevee, that's kinda a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation, isn't it? I get what you're saying, and to be fair, a lot of my thoughts on setup were formed well before the game ever started, but are you really saying that you think I wouldn't act that way as town?

Yea, town is lazy or careless more often than scum.

The problem with my vote is that it incentivizes bad play. So, for the record, despite the vote I do appreciate your contributions and think they are helping town.

[Twistedarcher]

Right, I get how you could have a null read on me (similar to how I have a null read on Yuma for speaking sense). But to me, his vote is saying that I wouldn't be likely to act this way as town, but only as scum, which is a sentiment I strongly disagree with.

[Twistedarcher]

In general, I suppose that's probably true, eevee.

[Voltaire]

So, since we've established you like theory, TA, any comments on my tweak to Jimmmmm's plan? 

[pingpongsam]

"Thanks for all the help you dirty scum." That's what I heard...

[Twistedarcher]

I mean, it just seems like a more complex way of us making sure that everyone claims before they die. I don't get what it accomplishes that just simply waiting for a claim before any lynch (even if claim isn't going to change the vote) does.

So it's not bad but I really don't get the point? Am I missing something?