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[ashersky]

I also think ash is clearly in the right in their discussion about manners and policy

What do you mean by that?? How have I been personal with ash? Does anyone else think that ash is right and I've personally attacked him?

I think questions like this are trying to split the town into ash vs. jimmmmm in a personal way.  You are taking the accusation that you were personal with me personally and asking for others in the game to take your side.

You aren't making cases, you are just talking about me, the player.  That's by definition personal, not "in-game."

[ashersky]

Thank you.

And this, to me, looks like twisting the knife.

[Jimmmmm]

Could you elaborate on the bolded part?

it basically means, I really dislike what jimmm is doing, and everything in me says "LYNCH HIM!", but that should not be what my decision is based on.

What have I done that you dislike?

[ashersky]

Am I the goon who knowingly destroyed my partner hydrad?  You know I never bus, ever.  Am I the unluckiest traitor alive?  Did I bus the goon I knew was my partner?

One question though: Do you deliberately leave out an option here?

Yep.

Is this Ash softclaiming SK?

This was Faust helping me make my point against Jimmmmm (intentionally? Don't know).

He quoted me out of context with the intention of painting me scummily, implying I was the SK forgetting or just intentionally leaving out that possibility.

If the context is returned to the quote, you will see that I'm pointing out the lack of a case by jimmmmm for me to be scum.  He's fighting me in his white knighting of Ichi, trying to make me look scummy for it.  I gave quite a few example of why I'm not mafia.

Why didn't I do the same for SK?  Well, objectively speaking, I'm more likely to be the SK than mafia given I'm in the VT pool.  There's also no clear reason why anyone is or isn't the SK currently, including me. 

As I pointed out earlier to jimmmm, I am brutally, intensely honest when I play this game.  Even as scum, I'm not particularly deceitful, nor do I lie about anything (claims and partners excepted).

[ashersky]

it definitely seemed like ash was softclaiming SK, which is pretty weird.

If anyone thinks I'm the SK, it at the very least should cement in your mind that Ichi is the fake claimer.

He said I had no power to kill on N1, after all.

[Jimmmmm]

I also think ash is clearly in the right in their discussion about manners and policy

What do you mean by that?? How have I been personal with ash? Does anyone else think that ash is right and I've personally attacked him?

I think questions like this are trying to split the town into ash vs. jimmmmm in a personal way.  You are taking the accusation that you were personal with me personally and asking for others in the game to take your side.

You aren't making cases, you are just talking about me, the player.  That's by definition personal, not "in-game."

I'm talking about what you the player is doing. I'm not talking about your motives as a person, which you were when you accused me of trying to belittle you and make you feel dumb.

Anyway this is all based on two posts. I think we'll have to accept that we strongly disagree and move on.

But be aware that I will not be deterred in playing the game or saying what I have to say by accusations of personal attacks or threats to leave the community.

[Witherweaver]

it definitely seemed like ash was softclaiming SK, which is pretty weird.

If anyone thinks I'm the SK, it at the very least should cement in your mind that Ichi is the fake claimer.

He said I had no power to kill on N1, after all.

Ooooh, I forgot about that. 

Could have killed Night 1 and your kill was blocked?  Resolution would be:

Blocking
Killing
Investigation

Now SK!You submits an order to kill someone, and that kill gets blocked.  (Did SK Jailkeep you Night 1?)  Would Psychologist turn up "Unable to Kill" since you have already submitted a kill, even though it's not successful?  My guess is probably not from Psychologist wording.  Ichi?

[Jimmmmm]

If the context is returned to the quote, you will see that I'm pointing out the lack of a case by jimmmmm for me to be scum.

I have not argued for you to be lynched, nor do I think you should be lynched Today, I have simply stated my opinion that I think you're scummy based on a gut feeling and past experience. I'll look at making a case on you if and when I want to lynch you.

[ashersky]

I will make this point a final time.  Each claim, when taken in context, can be analyzed.

Ichi claim Psychologist on Day 2 when he felt pressured by a possible lynch.  Nothing about the setup was public at that time.

Silverspawn claimed JK when there was a claimed Psychologist and it was known there were no BP Townies.

Jimmmmmm claimed Commuter with a claimed jk, psych, and no BPs.

Joth claimed knowing all of the above.

No matter how much we argue, unless the real Commuter hasn't spoken up (and if you are hiding now, good on you and don't claim until lylo just to spite everyone), I see zero motivation or reasoning for Jimmmmm to be lying.

I completely believe joth.

That leaves the other two, and Ichi's actions have been scummier, his claim was for survival, and silver's lying plan is too bold for him to have pulled as scum.  Plus, silvers claim makes no sense in a scum context.  He created the situation where no watcher implicates him, and yet he still claimed.

(On a side note, the fact that, to me, jimmmmm is absolutely town is what makes his posts so hurtful to me.  If he was mafia/SK, his argument that twisting my words to make me scummy would make sense.  I just don't see why town does it.)

So: joth and jimmmmm are the Semi-ICs.  I believe silver over Ichi.  I believe eevee is the most likely partner.

Then we turn to the remaining VTs to catch the SK.

[ashersky]

it definitely seemed like ash was softclaiming SK, which is pretty weird.

If anyone thinks I'm the SK, it at the very least should cement in your mind that Ichi is the fake claimer.

He said I had no power to kill on N1, after all.

Ooooh, I forgot about that. 

Could have killed Night 1 and your kill was blocked?  Resolution would be:

Blocking
Killing
Investigation

Now SK!You submits an order to kill someone, and that kill gets blocked.  (Did SK Jailkeep you Night 1?)  Would Psychologist turn up "Unable to Kill" since you have already submitted a kill, even though it's not successful?  My guess is probably not from Psychologist wording.  Ichi?

The role doesn't work that way.  If the SK kill was blocked, the SK still turns up guilty to psychs.

(Yuma and I worked on this role together when designing Modern Community.)

[Witherweaver]

Okay.

Why is Eevee the most likely partner for Ichi?  What about Eevee wanting to bus Ichi now?

[ashersky]

But be aware that I will not be deterred in playing the game or saying what I have to say by accusations of personal attacks or threats to leave the community.

Threat received.

(And nowhere have I called for you to quit.  If you think I did, I apologize, but that's a misunderstanding on your part.)

[ashersky]

Okay.

Why is Eevee the most likely partner for Ichi?  What about Eevee wanting to bus Ichi now?

D1 and especially D2 voting, mostly.  The end of D2 is pretty damning, even eevee agrees.

He hopes the bus will help him.  Or he doesn't know for sure that he's bussing and wants to on the majority side.

[Witherweaver]

Okay.

Why is Eevee the most likely partner for Ichi?  What about Eevee wanting to bus Ichi now?

D1 and especially D2 voting, mostly.  The end of D2 is pretty damning, even eevee agrees.

He hopes the bus will help him.  Or he doesn't know for sure that he's bussing and wants to on the majority side.

Well, the voting towards Hydrad makes some sense.. the voting towards Ichi is a little less convincing.  (I think.)  Once Traitor!Ichi claims Psych, scum!Eevee knows he's lying and knows he's the traitor.

[Jimmmmm]

(On a side note, the fact that, to me, jimmmmm is absolutely town is what makes his posts so hurtful to me.  If he was mafia/SK, his argument that twisting my words to make me scummy would make sense.  I just don't see why town does it.)

I have said nothing hurtful, and if you are hurt then you need to approach this game with a thicker skin.

But be aware that I will not be deterred in playing the game or saying what I have to say by accusations of personal attacks or threats to leave the community.

Threat received.

(And nowhere have I called for you to quit.  If you think I did, I apologize, but that's a misunderstanding on your part.)

What threat?

I didn't mean you calling for me to quit - I meant you threatening to quit yourself, which you have done several times in the past and seemed to imply when you said "This is why yuma quit" (not a direct quote).

[Eevee]

Okay.

Why is Eevee the most likely partner for Ichi?  What about Eevee wanting to bus Ichi now?

It's nothing about Ichi. I don't think I fit very well for a partner for Ichi, I've been voting for him almost all the game. It's my unfortunate misread of hydrad that means I fit well for his partner.

I'm 100% committed into lynching Ichi today fwiw, if that helps you trust
me any more.

[silverspawn]

Could you elaborate on the bolded part?

it basically means, I really dislike what jimmm is doing, and everything in me says "LYNCH HIM!", but that should not be what my decision is based on.

What have I done that you dislike?

a lot. man, it starts with the fact that you're painting yourself as the innocent one, which, in my opinion, is just absurd after your discussion with ash. but it really wouldn't be a good idea if i list every reason now. I don't like you. it's best to leave it at that. I'm trying not to let that influence my vote.

[Jimmmmm]

I don't like you.

Thanks.

[ashersky]

Okay.

Why is Eevee the most likely partner for Ichi?  What about Eevee wanting to bus Ichi now?

D1 and especially D2 voting, mostly.  The end of D2 is pretty damning, even eevee agrees.

He hopes the bus will help him.  Or he doesn't know for sure that he's bussing and wants to on the majority side.

Well, the voting towards Hydrad makes some sense.. the voting towards Ichi is a little less convincing.  (I think.)  Once Traitor!Ichi claims Psych, scum!Eevee knows he's lying and knows he's the traitor.

But does Mafia Goon!Eevee know that Ichi is lying?

I meant being on the mislynch, not the voting Ichi part.

[Witherweaver]

I like you if you're Town.  I don't like you if you're Scum.

[Witherweaver]

Okay.

Why is Eevee the most likely partner for Ichi?  What about Eevee wanting to bus Ichi now?

D1 and especially D2 voting, mostly.  The end of D2 is pretty damning, even eevee agrees.

He hopes the bus will help him.  Or he doesn't know for sure that he's bussing and wants to on the majority side.

Well, the voting towards Hydrad makes some sense.. the voting towards Ichi is a little less convincing.  (I think.)  Once Traitor!Ichi claims Psych, scum!Eevee knows he's lying and knows he's the traitor.

But does Mafia Goon!Eevee know that Ichi is lying?

I meant being on the mislynch, not the voting Ichi part.

Yes, because Mafia Goon!Eevee knows he got no add-on.  He therefore knows that the setup is Traitor Knows Mafia.  He therefore knows that ..

well I have to go back and double check.  Maybe he doesn't know until the first PR claim (Silver in this case, I think).

[Eevee]

I like everyone!

[Witherweaver]

Eevee could still be SK and want to get on lynches.  He doesn't have to be Ichi's partner.

[Jimmmmm]

Could you elaborate on the bolded part?

it basically means, I really dislike what jimmm is doing, and everything in me says "LYNCH HIM!", but that should not be what my decision is based on.

What have I done that you dislike?

a lot. man, it starts with the fact that you're painting yourself as the innocent one, which, in my opinion, is just absurd after your discussion with ash. but it really wouldn't be a good idea if i list every reason now. I don't like you. it's best to leave it at that. I'm trying not to let that influence my vote.

You know what, it's so, so unfair to say that you don't like how I play and you don't like me, but you won't tell me why. I'm guilty for what? Quoting ash without  keeping the whole quote in? Not being okay with him accusing me of personally attacking him?

[ashersky]

I have said nothing hurtful, and if you are hurt then you need to approach this game with a thicker skin.

The first part of this quote is untrue.

I believe that you probably didn't say anything with the intention of being hurtful.  That doesn't mean the words you chose weren't hurtful anyway.

If a person is joyriding in their car and accidentally kills your dog, even if they didn't mean to, they still killed your dog, and are culpable for it.  Their intentions didn't matter, the consequences of their actions still belong to them.

The second part of your quote is probably true.  Maybe I need a thicker skin.  Or maybe outside IRL influences/issues affect how fake/in-game issues affect me.  Or maybe I'm just fried from having played so many games.  I don't really have an answer to this.

It doesn't change how I feel, or what/who made me feel it.