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[Witherweaver]

Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.

Not sure what this means.. aren't you talking about night death?

I was reading up on Mafia strategies because I have no idea what you all are discussing. I think I'm using the term wrong, but bussing is Mafia members throwing one of themselves into the fire so one of the other Mafia members looks more credible, but it has to be done right, and in this instance, there's no way for any Mafia player to gain any sort of advantage to sack one of their own via lynching. Yeah, I did use the term 'bussing' wrong. You can't nightkill a Mafia player. As far as I can tell, at least.

When someone dies, their alignment and role is revealed (excepting special cases).  Mafia players can be night killed, by other factions, vigs, or even their own faction if they wanted.  (It's really hard to come up with a scenario where you'd actually want to do this, but edge cases~.)  Bussing is generally when one Mafia players tries to lynch his partner, generally done for town cred. 


But anyway, my point is is that if Joseph is night killed, his alignment gets posted, so there's no wondering any more.

[Witherweaver]

Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.

Or we could, you know, lynch Joseph. Does anyone have serious objections to that?

Yeah, gut feeling I don't think Joseph lies here.  Yes I understand we (likely) get a new unclaimed 1-shot Cop, but is that worth sacrificing a town player for?  Maybe it is, but I have a hard time lynching someone I believe is town for strategic purposes.

[faust]

Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.

Or we could, you know, lynch Joseph. Does anyone have serious objections to that?

Yeah, gut feeling I don't think Joseph lies here.  Yes I understand we (likely) get a new unclaimed 1-shot Cop, but is that worth sacrificing a town player for?  Maybe it is, but I have a hard time lynching someone I believe is town for strategic purposes.

Yeah, I see that, but I think Joseph is scum. Is there anything besides your gut that tells you otherwise? 1-shot Cop is a really convenient fakeclaim as well.

[Witherweaver]

No, and I haven't done any kind of due diligence.  Just the soft-claim thing first.. it read as genuine to me.

[silverspawn]

actually no, that's not even true. Only a single Mason removes the UB, and a single Mason is only there with exactly one M roll. So, if a mason claims we know for sure.

I don't know what you're saying here. A single M means there is a Mason and there is an UB now transformed into a second Mason. From a Mason perspective, that is indistinguishable from three Ms.

I thought mason means having the other masons confirmed as town and daychat. So, one mason will most likely know the difference between M and MMM.

I don't follow. Both scenarios result in a 2-person masonhood.

M** = 1 Mason
MMM = 2 Masons

[Seprix]

Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.

Or we could, you know, lynch Joseph. Does anyone have serious objections to that?

What if he IS a cop? Knowing who is innocent is very valuable, and lynching a cop for the mafia would be detrimental. At the very worst, we lynch someone who is not Joseph, and let the situation play out. If he dies, he was a cop. If he doesn't, we lynch him. Let's not make it easier for the Mafia.

[Awaclus]

actually no, that's not even true. Only a single Mason removes the UB, and a single Mason is only there with exactly one M roll. So, if a mason claims we know for sure.

I don't know what you're saying here. A single M means there is a Mason and there is an UB now transformed into a second Mason. From a Mason perspective, that is indistinguishable from three Ms.

I thought mason means having the other masons confirmed as town and daychat. So, one mason will most likely know the difference between M and MMM.

I don't follow. Both scenarios result in a 2-person masonhood.

M** = 1 Mason
MMM = 2 Masons

** Single M rolls result in the Universal Backup converting to a Mason

[Hydrad]

oh interesting a claim. Hooray for action day 1!

I still see Joseph as scummy but don't see a real reason to lynch him today even if hes 90% scum as it doesn't really hurt us if we keep him alive for one night.

unvote for now.

[silverspawn]

actually no, that's not even true. Only a single Mason removes the UB, and a single Mason is only there with exactly one M roll. So, if a mason claims we know for sure.

I don't know what you're saying here. A single M means there is a Mason and there is an UB now transformed into a second Mason. From a Mason perspective, that is indistinguishable from three Ms.

I thought mason means having the other masons confirmed as town and daychat. So, one mason will most likely know the difference between M and MMM.

I don't follow. Both scenarios result in a 2-person masonhood.

M** = 1 Mason
MMM = 2 Masons

** Single M rolls result in the Universal Backup converting to a Mason

Ah, well, I thought it meant that one mason was created by converting the UB, not that it would convert into an additional one. Even a single mason would still be an IC. But yeah it makes more sense this way.

[Hydrad]

actually no, that's not even true. Only a single Mason removes the UB, and a single Mason is only there with exactly one M roll. So, if a mason claims we know for sure.

I don't know what you're saying here. A single M means there is a Mason and there is an UB now transformed into a second Mason. From a Mason perspective, that is indistinguishable from three Ms.

I thought mason means having the other masons confirmed as town and daychat. So, one mason will most likely know the difference between M and MMM.

I don't follow. Both scenarios result in a 2-person masonhood.

M** = 1 Mason
MMM = 2 Masons

** Single M rolls result in the Universal Backup converting to a Mason

Ah, well, I thought it meant that one mason was created by converting the UB, not that it would convert into an additional one. Even a single mason would still be an IC. But yeah it makes more sense this way.

A single mason wouldn't really be a IC. you would just have to trust the person that they are a mason but there would be no way to prove it.

[silverspawn]

actually no, that's not even true. Only a single Mason removes the UB, and a single Mason is only there with exactly one M roll. So, if a mason claims we know for sure.

I don't know what you're saying here. A single M means there is a Mason and there is an UB now transformed into a second Mason. From a Mason perspective, that is indistinguishable from three Ms.

I thought mason means having the other masons confirmed as town and daychat. So, one mason will most likely know the difference between M and MMM.

I don't follow. Both scenarios result in a 2-person masonhood.

M** = 1 Mason
MMM = 2 Masons

** Single M rolls result in the Universal Backup converting to a Mason

Ah, well, I thought it meant that one mason was created by converting the UB, not that it would convert into an additional one. Even a single mason would still be an IC. But yeah it makes more sense this way.

A single mason wouldn't really be a IC. you would just have to trust the person that they are a mason but there would be no way to prove it.

there would be, because UB could counterclaim

[Hydrad]

ah fair enough. I guess that works.

[faust]

oh interesting a claim. Hooray for action day 1!

I still see Joseph as scummy but don't see a real reason to lynch him today even if hes 90% scum as it doesn't really hurt us if we keep him alive for one night.

unvote for now.

But why should we keep him alive?

[faust]

Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.

Or we could, you know, lynch Joseph. Does anyone have serious objections to that?

What if he IS a cop? Knowing who is innocent is very valuable, and lynching a cop for the mafia would be detrimental. At the very worst, we lynch someone who is not Joseph, and let the situation play out. If he dies, he was a cop. If he doesn't, we lynch him. Let's not make it easier for the Mafia.

If he is a Cop, the UB inherits his role. No harm done.

[Seprix]

Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.

Or we could, you know, lynch Joseph. Does anyone have serious objections to that?

What if he IS a cop? Knowing who is innocent is very valuable, and lynching a cop for the mafia would be detrimental. At the very worst, we lynch someone who is not Joseph, and let the situation play out. If he dies, he was a cop. If he doesn't, we lynch him. Let's not make it easier for the Mafia.

If he is a Cop, the UB inherits his role. No harm done.

It obviously is beneficial to keep him alive one night. Why do you want him dead so badly? VOTE: FAUST I think you should be lynched. You're acting suspicious.

[ashersky]

I enjoyed you all trying to figure out the setup when you could have just asked me.

Anyway, given the "E" mechanic, all cop/doctor claims of all types are "safe" for all claimers.

The general inclusion of the UB means mislynching a PR on D1 isn't disastrous.  That doesn't mean we should aim to do it.

I still like silverspawn for the lynch.

[ashersky]

Can we get a vote count with deadline?

[2.71828.....]

Vote Count 1.4

chairs (1) : sudgy
A Drowned Kernel (1) : Witherweaver
Joseph2302 (1) : faust
seprix (1) : EgorK
faust (2) : Seprix, chairs
silverspawn (2) : ashersky, A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (4): silverspawn, Joseph2302, Awaclus, Hydrad

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 will last 10 days.

The deadline for Day 1 will be Saturday, December 27 at 6:30 pm forum time.

[Hydrad]

Looking like a Silverspawn/Faust lynch with Joseph taking his cop shot (if he has one) and hoping he doesn't die. If he doesn't die, he's either scum, or the scum are setting him up. If he does die, he's innocent, unless he gets bussed, which isn't very likely and is counter productive.

Or we could, you know, lynch Joseph. Does anyone have serious objections to that?

What if he IS a cop? Knowing who is innocent is very valuable, and lynching a cop for the mafia would be detrimental. At the very worst, we lynch someone who is not Joseph, and let the situation play out. If he dies, he was a cop. If he doesn't, we lynch him. Let's not make it easier for the Mafia.

If he is a Cop, the UB inherits his role. No harm done.

Interesting I didn't think of that.

In that case if Joseph is really a 1 shot doctor is lynching him maybe the correct move? Hes already outed so him living till tomorrow isn't very likely unless we have a doctor in the game so his 1 shot isn't really useful at all. But if we lynch him then our UB should at least be able to use that 1 shot well.

[Joseph2302]

In that case if Joseph is really a 1 shot doctor cop

Fixed that for you.

But if you lynch me, you're lynching town. If we lynch someone else, we could hit scum, which would be super-good. Also, I can use my cop shot to get information, assuming I survive, which is possible. Even if I get nightkilled, this still gives us the option to search for a better lynch now, and means they can only lynch me or another townie, whereas both would die if you lynch me.

[faust]

In that case if Joseph is really a 1 shot doctor cop

Fixed that for you.

But if you lynch me, you're lynching town. If we lynch someone else, we could hit scum, which would be super-good. Also, I can use my cop shot to get information, assuming I survive, which is possible. Even if I get nightkilled, this still gives us the option to search for a better lynch now, and means they can only lynch me or another townie, whereas both would die if you lynch me.

You do realize that "if you lynch me, you lynch town, therefore it's bad" is a horrible argument?

[Joseph2302]

In that case if Joseph is really a 1 shot doctor cop

Fixed that for you.

But if you lynch me, you're lynching town. If we lynch someone else, we could hit scum, which would be super-good. Also, I can use my cop shot to get information, assuming I survive, which is possible. Even if I get nightkilled, this still gives us the option to search for a better lynch now, and means they can only lynch me or another townie, whereas both would die if you lynch me.

You do realize that "if you lynch me, you lynch town, therefore it's bad" is a horrible argument?

Yes, but if you kill me, then the scum kill leads to 2 bad kills. If I survive, then the scum have options to kill me or someone else, but not both. So they'll only be able to kill 1 of the people they want to.

[ashersky]

You do realize that "if you lynch me, you lynch town, therefore it's bad" is a horrible argument?

Unless I make it.

But yeah, it's bad.

[faust]

So look, I'm summarizing why lynching Joseph is good:

1. He's easily the scummiest player around. Just reread if you don't believe him. Textbook scum tells. Now you may say "it's too obvious", but this would be Joseph's first scum play, and because of that, it's reasonable that he would make these mistakes.

2. Everyone has taken a stand. Lynching Joseph will give us a lot of data to analyze - how did people act towards the lynch? We get much more out of this than say, out of lynching a lurker.

3. The 1-shot Cop is useless. If Joseph is indeed town, then maybe scum will kill him tonight to prevent an investigation. What's much more likely though is that they will simply roleblock him. In that case we don't get any information, and our Cop shot goes to waste. Much better to give the shot to the unknown UB, who has in fact a chance of actually catching scum with it.

[faust]

Man how much better can a D1 case even be?