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[Davio]

Can anyone tell me why this has gone 9 pages?

Because your posts per page setting is far too low.

Right, I fixed it and there are only 5 now (not including this), this is acceptable.

[flies]

CG, when you see a three pile ending coming, you make sure that your opponent can only end the game in a loss by getting VP.  Earlier you mentioned that you tried to prevent the game end by not getting a key card (conspirators).  That's not how you do it.  You get your conspirators and use them to get you the vp you need to stay ahead of future 3-pile endings.

The scrub's problem (edit: one of them, anyway) is that because he considers certain tactics cheap, he simply avoids them rather than learning to deal with them.  It sounds to me like you just haven't figures out how to handle end-game tactics in games ending on engine part piles and therefore conclude that such games are less fun and look for a way to change the rules to prevent it. 

[flies]

In general, I find surprise 3 pile endings to be among the most elegant examples of play.

[KingZog3]

To the OP: Dominion can't be seen as a game where very turn you play some cards, then buy some cards, then eventually buy a few Provinces and see who wins. Every buy has a thought, and a reason behind it, often more than just "hey I can add that to my deck." If you see that piles are running low, don't buy. I very often keep track of how many buys my opponent normally gets. If he's getting 10 buys with 20$+, I make sure to leave enough cards that he can't buy in 1 turn, or buy some points to get ahead so that he also needs to buy point before he can end.

You clearly don't do this. You just buy things, then get angry that he had enough buys to get everything. Dude, if you left 3 Worker's Villages and he is making a WV Wharf deck, he has the buys to get everything. Maybe you shouldn't have been buying Pawns and WV simply because you could.

[shark_bait]

In general, I find surprise 3 pile endings to be among the most elegant examples of play.

I like to think that I am never surprised by a 3-pile ending.  Either by knowing the limits of my opponents deck or by constructing mine to garner a 3-pile edge, manipulating the end-game in your favor takes a lot of skill to do.

[LastFootnote]

There aren't any cards to combat the quick and dirty three pile strategy. That makes it wayyyy too overpowered. Good thing I'm able to completely dominate my opponents in most games so they can't get away with that kind of trick.

Geez, dude. People have refuted this multiple times. Maybe you'll listen if I say it once more. There ARE cards that protect against the opponent going for a quick 3-pile ending. They're called Victory cards. And they're a super-powerful counter to that strategy! If your opponent chooses to go ahead and end the game quickly anyway, YOU WIN! Talk about a counter.

If your opponent is able to surmount your Victory lead AND empty 3 piles, it's because he's better at the game than you and you should improve.

[Stealth Tomato]

Let's say you play poker with some friends for money. In the FIRST or second game you made some good decisions but you also had extraordinary luck, and you just won 100$ from the other poker players. Immediately after the game you say "Alright guys, I think I'm going to call it a night, see ya later!

That's why pro poker tourneys play a set amount of hands.

To be clear, most professional poker is played in cash games, where there is most certainly not a set amount of hands. Tournament play is what's televised because it's more dramatic and has a better narrative for an audience, not because it's "better" or "more fair" or "more professional".

That said, in reference to the original example, any poker player who gets butthurt because someone did that is an idiot. Anyone is perfectly free to walk with their winnings... and if they're no good, I'm perfectly fine with taking their money some other time, or with taking someone else's money.

Do they actually televise tournaments with a set amount of hands?  A few years ago I went through a phase where I watched a lot of WPT and such, and I'm fairly certain that they don't have fixed number of hands.  Players are free to bet within the rules, go all in, etc.  They never suddenly stop on hand X and see who has the most money left -- they play all the way until someone has all the chips.

Then the game is edited to fit within the time they have to show it on TV, showing the most exciting hands and cutting out all the hands where everyone just folds all around.

They don't, but his point appeared to be that you can't just walk away at any time (you must play until you're either out or the only player left), so I treated it as such.

Wow this thread moves fast.

[Count Grishnakh]

To the OP: Dominion can't be seen as a game where very turn you play some cards, then buy some cards, then eventually buy a few Provinces and see who wins. Every buy has a thought, and a reason behind it, often more than just "hey I can add that to my deck." If you see that piles are running low, don't buy. I very often keep track of how many buys my opponent normally gets. If he's getting 10 buys with 20$+, I make sure to leave enough cards that he can't buy in 1 turn, or buy some points to get ahead so that he also needs to buy point before he can end.

You clearly don't do this. You just buy things, then get angry that he had enough buys to get everything. Dude, if you left 3 Worker's Villages and he is making a WV Wharf deck, he has the buys to get everything. Maybe you shouldn't have been buying Pawns and WV simply because you could.

I do exactly what you do, and I don't just "buy for the hell of it" I gave an example of a game where I avoided buying conspirators to stall the three pile

Let's play on goko sometime, I'm more careful than I come off based on my posts

[Count Grishnakh]

There aren't any cards to combat the quick and dirty three pile strategy. That makes it wayyyy too overpowered. Good thing I'm able to completely dominate my opponents in most games so they can't get away with that kind of trick.

Geez, dude. People have refuted this multiple times. Maybe you'll listen if I say it once more. There ARE cards that protect against the opponent going for a quick 3-pile ending. They're called Victory cards. And they're a super-powerful counter to that strategy! If your opponent chooses to go ahead and end the game quickly anyway, YOU WIN! Talk about a counter.

If your opponent is able to surmount your Victory lead AND empty 3 piles, it's because he's better at the game than you and you should improve.

Right, so (say) I buy a province, my opponent buys a platinum, he now has a better deck

Thus the only way this "strategy" of buying VP cards for insurance works is to drain the deck while you're ahead

But he could buy a platinum while you spent your $9 on a province... Now all you can do is hope and pray you can drain those last few cards before he plays the platinum and ties you, or worse!!

so two problems there:
1. The only way to defend against this strategy is to resort to the strategy yourself
2. It's not always a perfect counter. Because if he buys a province and ties it up, then you
have to buy another VP card, which may prevent you from three piling on your turn. Then he buys a colony because he bought a platinum when you spent your 9$ on that first province

What I'm trying to say is that this aspect of the game boils down to a crapshoot, and you can only manage this aspect of the strategy if you have a comfortable lead

when the game is close at all (and games should usually be close at high-level) the "science" of it all breaks down and it's really just a crap shoot on who manages to be the last person to get that extra VP while draining the last deck

[KingZog3]

To the OP: Dominion can't be seen as a game where very turn you play some cards, then buy some cards, then eventually buy a few Provinces and see who wins. Every buy has a thought, and a reason behind it, often more than just "hey I can add that to my deck." If you see that piles are running low, don't buy. I very often keep track of how many buys my opponent normally gets. If he's getting 10 buys with 20$+, I make sure to leave enough cards that he can't buy in 1 turn, or buy some points to get ahead so that he also needs to buy point before he can end.

You clearly don't do this. You just buy things, then get angry that he had enough buys to get everything. Dude, if you left 3 Worker's Villages and he is making a WV Wharf deck, he has the buys to get everything. Maybe you shouldn't have been buying Pawns and WV simply because you could.

I do exactly what you do, and I don't just "buy for the hell of it" I gave an example of a game where I avoided buying conspirators to stall the three pile

Let's play on goko sometime, I'm more careful than I come off based on my posts

Right now. Go to Hovel. I'll host.

[Count Grishnakh]

To the OP: Dominion can't be seen as a game where very turn you play some cards, then buy some cards, then eventually buy a few Provinces and see who wins. Every buy has a thought, and a reason behind it, often more than just "hey I can add that to my deck." If you see that piles are running low, don't buy. I very often keep track of how many buys my opponent normally gets. If he's getting 10 buys with 20$+, I make sure to leave enough cards that he can't buy in 1 turn, or buy some points to get ahead so that he also needs to buy point before he can end.

You clearly don't do this. You just buy things, then get angry that he had enough buys to get everything. Dude, if you left 3 Worker's Villages and he is making a WV Wharf deck, he has the buys to get everything. Maybe you shouldn't have been buying Pawns and WV simply because you could.

I do exactly what you do, and I don't just "buy for the hell of it" I gave an example of a game where I avoided buying conspirators to stall the three pile

Let's play on goko sometime, I'm more careful than I come off based on my posts

Right now. Go to Hovel. I'll host.

Let's do it!

[Marcory]

If you buy a province, and your opponent buys a Platinum and lets you stay in the VP lead, then you're now in a position to 3-pile and win yourself. Three-piling works both ways.

[Warfreak2]

You are merely describing why dominion is a complex, interesting game - you are complaining there is no easy way for you to guarantee a win.

[eHalcyon]

You are merely describing why dominion is a complex, interesting game - you are complaining there is no easy way for you to guarantee a win.

Exactly this. 

You have to determine how close the game is to ending and play accordingly.  If it's still early, that Platinum is the right play.  If the game is close to ending (e.g. piles are low, or Provinces/Colonies almost gone) then take that Province.  That's a decision you make.  If you take the Province and there is still enough time for your opponent to come back, then maybe you made the wrong decision.  If you take the Platinum and he ends the game on piles, then you definitely made the wrong decision.  These decisions are an important part of the game, not a problem that needs fixing.

[Count Grishnakh]

You are merely describing why dominion is a complex, interesting game - you are complaining there is no easy way for you to guarantee a win.

You have a point. It's a fair criticism of my mentality. I still think I have a point tho.

But I guess anything I say is moot in a pro setting where multiple games are played

btw King Zog mopped the floor with me

[KingZog3]

You are merely describing why dominion is a complex, interesting game - you are complaining there is no easy way for you to guarantee a win.

You have a point. It's a fair criticism of my mentality. I still think I have a point tho.

But I guess anything I say is moot in a pro setting where multiple games are played

btw King Zog mopped the floor with me

You didn't play badly. Tried to play LFN after and goko just crashed on me

[LastFootnote]

You are merely describing why dominion is a complex, interesting game - you are complaining there is no easy way for you to guarantee a win.

You have a point. It's a fair criticism of my mentality. I still think I have a point tho.

But I guess anything I say is moot in a pro setting where multiple games are played

btw King Zog mopped the floor with me

You didn't play badly. Tried to play LFN after and goko just crashed on me

Yeah, you're not bad, Count. We were 2 and 2 over 4 games. We both could have played better, but whatever. Fun games.

[Count Grishnakh]

You are merely describing why dominion is a complex, interesting game - you are complaining there is no easy way for you to guarantee a win.

You have a point. It's a fair criticism of my mentality. I still think I have a point tho.

But I guess anything I say is moot in a pro setting where multiple games are played

btw King Zog mopped the floor with me

You didn't play badly. Tried to play LFN after and goko just crashed on me

Yeah thanks for the games King Zog and. LFN. LFN and I are very evenly matched and every game was interesting

[Count Grishnakh]

You are merely describing why dominion is a complex, interesting game - you are complaining there is no easy way for you to guarantee a win.

You have a point. It's a fair criticism of my mentality. I still think I have a point tho.

But I guess anything I say is moot in a pro setting where multiple games are played

btw King Zog mopped the floor with me

You didn't play badly. Tried to play LFN after and goko just crashed on me

Yeah, you're not bad, Count. We were 2 and 2 over 4 games. We both could have played better, but whatever. Fun games.

I just saw your message. We will definitely need to do that fifth game. I had to run, though. Is hovel where the f.ds folks hang out?

[KingZog3]

You are merely describing why dominion is a complex, interesting game - you are complaining there is no easy way for you to guarantee a win.

You have a point. It's a fair criticism of my mentality. I still think I have a point tho.

But I guess anything I say is moot in a pro setting where multiple games are played

btw King Zog mopped the floor with me

You didn't play badly. Tried to play LFN after and goko just crashed on me

Yeah, you're not bad, Count. We were 2 and 2 over 4 games. We both could have played better, but whatever. Fun games.

I just saw your message. We will definitely need to do that fifth game. I had to run, though. Is hovel where the f.ds folks hang out?

Nah I just picked it because no one was there. But we should make it the f.ds hangout.

[Count Grishnakh]

You are merely describing why dominion is a complex, interesting game - you are complaining there is no easy way for you to guarantee a win.

You have a point. It's a fair criticism of my mentality. I still think I have a point tho.

But I guess anything I say is moot in a pro setting where multiple games are played

btw King Zog mopped the floor with me

You didn't play badly. Tried to play LFN after and goko just crashed on me

Yeah, you're not bad, Count. We were 2 and 2 over 4 games. We both could have played better, but whatever. Fun games.

I just saw your message. We will definitely need to do that fifth game. I had to run, though. Is hovel where the f.ds folks hang out?

Nah I just picked it because no one was there. But we should make it the f.ds hangout.

Definitely. Dominion's elite players hiding out in the hovel.. I like that 

[Count Grishnakh]

Anyway, thanks for the criticism everyone. It's been a learning experience for me. One thing I love about Dominion as a game is it often punishes me for my foolish, fanciful and grandiose plans, forcing me to be very strict and level-headed in my thinking and expectations. I think you all helped me come to my senses. 

[pingpongsam]

One thing I love about Dominion as a game is it often punishes me

I knew you were a masochist.

[Schneau]

This thread made me want to go 3-pile, so I did in my next two games. Felt so good!

[shark_bait]

Now I'm threeeeeeeee.... threeee pilin'

Sung to the tune of Tom Petty's Free Falling