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Author Topic: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, 2013, Ypsilanti, MI  (Read 18159 times)

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Kirian

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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #50 on: November 21, 2013, 04:59:11 pm »
+2

Quote
I would like to see a clause that allows games to be finished to completion if it appears obvious that a player is slow-playing to game the system.

In a perfect world we wouldn't have time limits, but in a convention setting time is a limited resource, because another event could be booked in that space right after the tournament is scheduled to end.  Also, allowing one game to run long would keep all of the other players waiting idle, which is not fun for them.

There will be advance warning as the time limit approaches, but players should also factor the time limit into their strategy decisions; choosing a very long game strategy will carry some additional risk in this format, especially in the qualifier rounds.

if I decide someone's taking advantage, I'll deal with it, but it is my hope that all of the players will show good sportsmanship and not give me cause to intervene.   Come.  Play.  Have fun!

Since Elestan isn't a regular here, and I am, I want to note for anyone worrying about these sorts of judgment calls that he is quite level-headed.  You needn't worry about randomly bad decisions.

(He and I were both in the finals of last year's tournament.  We both lost terribly to Familiars.)
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shark_bait

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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #51 on: November 21, 2013, 05:28:26 pm »
0

(He and I were both in the finals of last year's tournament.  We both lost terribly to Familiars.)

Familiar... Final... ughhh, that sounds like a terrible chance for luck of the draw to decide the best of 1 game.
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Kirian

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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #52 on: November 21, 2013, 06:11:34 pm »
0

(He and I were both in the finals of last year's tournament.  We both lost terribly to Familiars.)

Familiar... Final... ughhh, that sounds like a terrible chance for luck of the draw to decide the best of 1 game.

Even worse, it was Familiar with Moat!  And yes... I drew 2P on the first shuffle.
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AdamH

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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #53 on: November 21, 2013, 06:14:19 pm »
0

In a 3+ player game with Familiar and Moat, you'll have to do some convincing to get me to not open double Moat. Maybe Moat/Silver and pick up a second (and third and fourth) Moat on the reshuffle?
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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #54 on: November 21, 2013, 06:37:36 pm »
0

In a 3+ player game with Familiar and Moat, you'll have to do some convincing to get me to not open double Moat. Maybe Moat/Silver and pick up a second (and third and fourth) Moat on the reshuffle?

Oh, should you open Potion, though? You need your own Familiar, that's more important. Potion/Moat opening is possible, though.
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AdamH

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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #55 on: November 21, 2013, 06:53:03 pm »
+1

Not me. I'd rather turtle.
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shark_bait

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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2013, 10:39:36 pm »
0

To the simulators!  Moat and Familiar 4-player dominion.
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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #57 on: November 22, 2013, 04:16:11 pm »
+3

So we've got 4 of us F.DSers going then?  Let's bring home the bacon boys!
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Kirian

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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2013, 09:50:26 pm »
0

So?  What's the word?  Who won?!
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shark_bait

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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2013, 11:24:01 pm »
+5

I don't have time to do a full right up at the moment, I also can't remember all the sets.  I *should* have won.  After getting 3 1st's and a 2nd in the qualifiers followed by 3 wins in the semi's I made it to the finals.

During the final game my chances for victory are looking fantastic as I have a potent Goons/Governor engine kicking.  And then I proceed to throw the match.  I ended the game of 3 piles forgetting that Governor trash for benefit is *exactly*.  I needed to pile out $3 cards and I only had 1 of my shelters in hand.  Additionally, I forgot that one of my opponents had purchased a significant (2 Provinces) worth of green.  I piled out the game regardless of the VP hit on my mistake and ended up tied on points but losing on turns. 

On the bright side, I had a great time at a very well run event and got a free $35 game for 2nd place.  And now, I don't feel obligated to go to the national tournament because I probably shouldn't go anyways as I need to prepare for my candidacy exam during the summer.

Hopefully the tournament organizer will post the Kingdom here.  They were all hand-selected and all (with the exception of the IGG one) extremely well made.  They made for very interesting games that took a lot of skill.  They were also very good for 3-player games.  The dynamics of 2 players taking 1 strategy vs another player doing a different one were present and in most games 3-pile/VP management was an important consideration.
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Elestan

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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #60 on: November 24, 2013, 01:04:52 am »
+6

I'd like to thank everyone who showed up and played; the presence of the DS.com folks definitely upped the game, and made it a lot more exciting for the good players, and more educational for the less experienced ones.

From the organizer's chair, I can offer this pieces of advice to anyone else considering running a similar tournament:  Make shuffle charts in advance for every possible number of players.  Shuffle charts are the tables used to seat players in the Kingdoms each round, so that one can optimally satisfy the following (In priority order):
  • No 2-player games allowed.
  • No player plays the same Kingdom twice.
  • As few 4-player games as possible.
  • All players play the same number of 4-player games, to the extent possible.
  • Each player plays each other player as few times as possible.

I had 21 players reserve tickets, and had charts pre-prepared for 21-27 players.  The charts are fairly easy for multiples of three, but they can take quite a while to work out when the 4-player rules come into play.

Unfortunately, I had four no-shows, and only two sign-ups, which left me with 19 players.  So while the games were running, I was hunched over my computer working out the shuffle permutations while my assistant supervised the games.  In the end, I came up with charts that met the critical rules, although they had some players playing each other more than I would have liked.  And then someone dropped out halfway through the prelims, so I had to redo them.

But, in the end, it seemed like the players had fun, and that's the important thing.

Thanks again to everyone who showed up, and maybe we'll try this again next year!
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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #61 on: November 24, 2013, 01:38:17 am »
+4

I *should* have won.  After getting 3 1st's and a 2nd in the qualifiers followed by 3 wins in the semi's I made it to the finals.

shark_bait definitely had the consistently strongest play throughout the tournament.  Good job, mate!

Quote
Hopefully the tournament organizer will post the Kingdom here.

Your wish is my command.  My only request is that nobody (except me) enter these in the DS.com kingdom design contest.  Also, if anyone plays these sets online, please post a link to the log in this thread.

Preliminary Kingdoms:
  • Shelters, Embargo, Chapel, Forager, Death Cart, Pirate Ship, Cultist, Junk Dealer, Torturer, Fairgrounds, Farmland
  • Colony, Platinum, Potions, Courtyard, Develop, Menagerie, Warehouse, Fortress, Noble Brigand, Duke, Grand Market, Transmute, Apothecary
  • Duchess, Tunnel, Baron, Bishop, Jack of All Trades, Silk Road, Scout, Walled Village, Hunting Grounds, Count
    (This was the only 4P Kingdom, until a player dropped out)
  • Native Village, Secret Chamber, Vagrant, Lookout, Bridge, Sea Hag, Butcher, Ghost Ship, Tribute, Harvest
  • Haven, Urchin, Cutpurse, Horse Traders, Spice Merchant, Trader, Cache, Counting House, King's Court, Forge
  • Colony, Platinum, Herbalist, Masterpiece, Swindler, Farming Village, Remake, Witch, Hoard, Bank, Expand, Peddler

Semifinal Kingdoms:
  • Potions, Crossroads, Fortune Teller, Hermit, Rats, Highway, Knights, Rebuild, Harem, Vineyard, Golem
  • Fool's Gold, Squire, Doctor, Market Square(Bane), Menagerie, Shantytown, Watchtower, Young Witch, Merchant Guild, Pillage, Tactician
  • Poorhouse, Coppersmith, Gardens, Moneylender, Noble Brigand, Bandit Camp, Counterfeit, Ill-Gotten-Gains, Rogue, Thief
    This was the only Kingdom I wasn't happy with, and looking back over my notes, I see why.  Kirian (who had kindly reviewed a few of these sets) had noted the likelihood of an IGG rush on this one, and I'd planned to adjust for it, but the change got lost in the shuffle, so to speak.  My bad, and kudos to Kirian for the correct call.

Speed Tiebreaker Kingdom:  Chapel, Market Square, Bridge, Gardens, Ironworks, Talisman, Council Room, Haggler, Jester, Border Village

That one had a 20 minute time limit, but finished in six, and I'll bet that it could be finished in less.

Final Kingdom:  Shelters, Potions, Platinum, Colony, Cellar, Scheme, Fishing Village, Baron, Marauder, Baker, Fairgrounds, Governor, Goons, Scrying Pool.

The design plan on this one was different:  Rather than tricky strategic interactions, I decided to make the final set a tour-de-force of all of the Dominion sets, to commemorate their completion.  So I had one card from each set (counting promos as a set), preferring cards that were in keeping with the set's theme.

...and that's all the sets that were played!  I'll save the ones I didn't end up using, for future fun.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2013, 08:33:45 am by Elestan »
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Elestan

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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #62 on: November 24, 2013, 01:49:34 am »
+1

So?  What's the word?  Who won?!
The winner, btw, was Jordan M., who I believe you know from the Michigan convention scene.
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AdamH

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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #63 on: November 24, 2013, 01:56:24 am »
+2

After the first rounds, going into the semifinals, I was the top seed and Nick (dethwing, my IRL friend) was number two with the same number of points. I hadn't played anyone in the first rounds that ended up making it to the end, though, so there's that. I had a blast playing with those people, they were for the most part super-nice.

In the semis I got last place in my first game which took me out of realistic contention for the finals. I played the IGG set and I didn't have any problems with it. I went for Thief/Gardens with Poor Houses and actually won the 3P game.

Some of these kingdoms were a lot of fun to play, particularly my game with Robz (and someone else) on the second semifinal kingdom, and also the Prelim kingdom number 2.

I may write more, and I have pictures that I may upload but I'm really tired right now. We got up early and drove 3.5 hours to get there on time and because of the snow it took until 1:30AM to get home, so I'm going to bed.

It was awesome to meet you guys, though: shark bait, robz, lio, EFHW, and other non-forumers that hung out with us and lots of other people there that were all awesome to talk to.

...and shark bait, you were the true champion in my heart. We'll just pretend you had bought a province that game and put it away before counting your VP total  ;)
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AdamH

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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #64 on: November 24, 2013, 01:59:29 am »
+9

Group photo: http://www.adamhorton.com/files/dom01.jpg
EDIT: From left to right in this photo are
AdamH, liopoil, EFHW, Robz, shark bait


Scout: http://www.adamhorton.com/files/dom02.jpg

Advisor: http://www.adamhorton.com/files/dom03.jpg

As I write this these are not cropped or anything, I may re-upload.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 11:26:54 am by AdamH »
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dethwing

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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #65 on: November 24, 2013, 02:30:40 am »
+3

I took last in the final, lost 23-23-17. We all oppened celler/goons [yay Baker....]. I think in retrospect, I'd have opened cellar/governor, and gone for goons later. My 3rd turn 5 copper hand was all set to grab an early governor when it got the smackdown from a goons. Ugh. I knew it was gonna be rough after that. I think I bought a 2nd goons over a 3rd [or maybe 4th] governor, which was probably a mistake. Should have prioritized getting the governors. I think, everyone watching the game thought that shark_bait had it locked up, and we were all stunned to find he lost on turns.

Overall, I had an absolute blast playing with you guys. Great tournament, great experience.
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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #66 on: November 24, 2013, 02:34:42 am »
+2

Jordan's win was, by the way, the most unlikely result I've ever seen.

He was in 9th place after the opening rounds, with the top 8 advancing [along with the previous year's champion]. But one of the top 8 had to drop out, so he snuck in as a replacement.

Then, going into the final match, he was on 6 point, with 3 others on 10. He need both to win AND have at least one of the other 10 point people come in 3rd just to force a tie. Which happened.
He then needed to win a tiebreaker to get into the finals. Which he did, finally winning from 3rd position in a goons game. Unbelievable.
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Elestan

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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #67 on: November 24, 2013, 02:37:34 am »
+2

I played the IGG set and I didn't have any problems with it. I went for Thief/Gardens with Poor Houses and actually won the 3P game.

I think that sometimes 2-player duelist players forget how potent Thief is in a multiplayer Gardens game.  I saw a number of people disdaining it today, at least until someone else cursed them with their own purloined IGG.
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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #68 on: November 24, 2013, 02:45:06 am »
0

Then, going into the final match, [Jordan] was on 6 point, with 3 others on 10. He need both to win AND have at least one of the other 10 point people come in 3rd just to force a tie. Which happened.
He definitely earned that win on Semifinal set 1 though.  I think he was the only one who constructed the full Rebuild/Crossroads/Hermit engine.
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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #69 on: November 24, 2013, 08:46:07 am »
+4

Game 1:  Colony, Platinum, Potions, Courtyard, Develop, Menagerie, Warehouse, Fortress, Noble Brigand, Duke, Grand Market, Transmute, Apothecary

With a 40 minute time limit, this game was a bit nerve-wracking.  The engine to be build here consists of Apothecary/Menagerie/Warehouse/Fortress to Develop Fortresses into Duchy/Develop to get Grand Markets.  It was a beat to play needing to keep track actions, cards in the discard pile, reordering of the top of the deck and cards in the hand.....

AND IT WAS STILL FASTER THAN GOKO!  Couldn't resist that little jab  ;)

Game 2:  Haven, Urchin, Cutpurse, Horse Traders, Spice Merchant, Trader, Cache, Counting House, King's Court, Forge

This was the least interesting of the semifinals.  There is not potential for an engine, even with KC.  As it is, I went for a Single Trader and a Single Spice Merchant.  I was able to Cache in on the golden $5 with Trader in hand a couple of times.  I ended up winning this one on turns after I got $7/$7/$4 in my last 3 hands of the game.

Game 3:  Colony, Platinum, Potions, Herbalist, Masterpiece, Swindler, Farming Village, Remake, Witch, Hoard, Bank, Expand, Peddle

This was an interesting board for a 2-player enthusiast.  I saw this and immediatly wanted to get Peddlers to 0, buy them and then trash them with Expand.  I was successful, butin the process of doing that Farming Villages were emptied and Curses were emptied and the Swindler attack made every Swindler and Silver a Masterpiece.  I managed to get 2 Peddler=>Colony before the 3-pile ensuring 2nd place.

Game 4:  Shelters, Embargo, Chapel, Forager, Death Cart, Pirate Ship, Cultist, Junk Dealer, Torturer, Fairgrounds, Farmland

This one one where I had my plan right from the get go.  I ignored all of the Junkers in this game and with our own opening split being our choice, went for Junk Dealer/Chapel.  I quickly trash down keeping my Necropolis.  It was then just a matter of picking up 2 Pirate Ships and playing each of them for the attack for about 5 turns in a row racking up $6 ships.  After that I got a Gold and went to the races.

Semi-final Game 1:  Poorhouse, Coppersmith, Gardens, Moneylender, Noble Brigand, Bandit Camp, Counterfeit, Ill-Gotten-Gains, Rogue, Thief

This was a standard IGG/Gardens rush.  I could see how Thief could maybe do a little bit of work if it steals a few IGG from the players, but apart from IGG, it's tough to make a call for any other strategy.  Good draws and FPA make this an easy win.

Semifinal Game 2:  Potions, Crossroads, Fortune Teller, Hermit, Rats, Highway, Knights, Rebuild, Harem, Vineyard, Golem

I open Highway/Crossroads only to have my Highway trashed by Sir Plus Buy right before my 4th turn.  It's a tumultuous game from then on.  My goal for the game was to not do Rebuild and to combat Knights using Rats.  Then go for a Megaturn with Hermits/Highways.  Things are going well and I have 5 Highways in deck and am primed to gain 4 Provinces until I get hit by Knights on my Highways.  In the end I manage to pick up enough VP before the 3-pile to take 1st.

Semifinal Game 3:  Fool's Gold, Squire, Doctor, Market Square(Bane), Menagerie, Shantytown, Watchtower, Young Witch, Merchant Guild, Pillage, Tactician

This was a great set.  It's one of those where every card in the set can be looked at as a candidate for inclusion in the deck.  With the ability to reorder your opening deck, Doctor became a must buy on Turn 1, (overpay $2 with the guarantee to trash 2 Estates).  After that I really did a lot with everything.  The main thing was trying for Squire into Watchtower for draw, throw in a couple of Merchant guilds for coin and a Tactician to help with large hands.  A log would be nice for this game as there really was so much that went on in it.  We ended up 3-piling Fool's Gold, Squire and Curses.  I ended up at 1st with a much more potent engine than my opponents.

Final:  You can read more about how to throw a game with 7 Governor and 2 Goons in my previous post.
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Elestan

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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #70 on: November 24, 2013, 09:24:56 am »
+1

Thanks for the writeup shark_bait; after designing these sets, it's fun for me to see how they got played by the DS.com crowd.  Hopefully Robz888, AdamH, liopoil, EFHW, and dethwing will post similar reports.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 01:35:12 am by Elestan »
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Kirian

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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #71 on: November 24, 2013, 09:47:18 am »
0

So?  What's the word?  Who won?!
The winner, btw, was Jordan M., who I believe you know from the Michigan convention scene.

Yes, of course I know Jordan :)  Cool!  He's definitely a great player, wasn't he in the finals with us last year too?  Say congrats to him for me if you see him around again today.

Also, my apologies (publicly) for not getting back to you on more of the sets.  These past few weeks have been just impossible, and the next few don't look better, part of why I wasn't able to make the convention.  It got lost in the flow of other things. :(

Group photo: http://www.adamhorton.com/files/dom01.jpg

Names!  Well, I guess AdamH, RobZ and shark_bait are obvious.  Who are our other two forumites?
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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #72 on: November 24, 2013, 10:04:22 am »
+1

Group photo: http://www.adamhorton.com/files/dom01.jpg

Who is who? I know which one is robzy, no idea about you, lip or sharky.
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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #73 on: November 24, 2013, 10:19:53 am »
+2

Group photo: http://www.adamhorton.com/files/dom01.jpg

Who is who? I know which one is robzy, no idea about you, lip or sharky.

Given that the file is hosted at adamhorton.com, and he has the forum username AdamH, I'm guessing he's the one with the badge that says "Adam Horton."  Though they might have all swapped badges to make us wonder!

Shark_bait is Bruce.  See his sig, and also the movie Finding Nemo.
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Kirian

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Re: Official Dominion Tournament at U-Con, Nov 23, Ypsilanti, MI
« Reply #74 on: November 24, 2013, 10:21:02 am »
0

Hah!  One of my best friends is in the background of the Advisor picture.
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Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.
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