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Author Topic: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread  (Read 21198 times)

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zaubererer

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2013, 12:42:01 pm »
0

Hi, i need help on how to find logs, because i forgot to grab them. Any help would be really appreciated.
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nopawnsintended

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #51 on: August 25, 2013, 12:44:25 pm »
+1

Quote
I made the biggest mistake of the series in this game: I purchased a second Sea Hag rather than a Monument.
Well, after all, monument is just a sea hag that doesn't junk or discard the top card of their deck but gives you money.

That's what I e-mailed Polk after he told me about the match.
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Mr Anderson

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #52 on: August 25, 2013, 01:42:36 pm »
+2

Hi, i need help on how to find logs, because i forgot to grab them. Any help would be really appreciated.

http://gokologs.drunkensailor.org/
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zaubererer

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #53 on: August 25, 2013, 03:35:47 pm »
0

thx
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Kirian

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #54 on: August 25, 2013, 05:30:05 pm »
+1

Kirian d. Bekse 3-1
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50635cc651c3843e7939ece8.1377460715279.txt

Game 1:  Familiar board.  My opponent opens with Upgrade on 5/2, which, you know, isn't a bad play IMO, but then draws 2/5 on T3 and T4, and doesn't take the Potion with $5.  I think a second Upgrade at that point might actually have made this closer, but my Familiars and then Alchemists turn the game into a bit of a blowout.  Bekse resigns when I get a Gold and a Platinum.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50635cc651c3843e7939ece8.1377461403558.txt

Border Village, Governor, Wharf.  Wharf dominates, but notably, Governor on a BV = Province, which clinches the game.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50635cc651c3843e7939ece8.1377462285771.txt

I have said it before, and I'll say it again: Tournament is the swingiest card in the game.  Despite having more Tournaments, I don't connect until T16, at which point Bekse already has three Prizes.  Despite Bekse taking Bag of Gold as his first prize, I lose.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50635cc651c3843e7939ece8.1377462956658.txt

Mining Village, Goons, Masquerade, with some Rogues thrown in for amusement.  Mini-Combo: trash a Mining Village for $2, then immediately gain it back with Rogue.  But Goons-Masq was always going to be the centerpiece of this board, and my second Masquerade plus some very good luck lining up Village-Goons-Masq on T10 and T11 make the endgame obvious.

Good match, Bekse!
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nopawnsintended

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #55 on: August 25, 2013, 07:55:24 pm »
+2

Here is the commentary on the draw between Jdaki and myself.

Game 1: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1377461478129.txt Jdaki 38 No Pawns 32

This game was a tricky Swindler game.  Feodum was in the kingdom, so was Pirate Ship, but Tournament was key.  We both open Swindler/Tournament.  Jdaki gets more Gold than I do in the midgame, and kinda maintains a tenuous lead throughout the game.  Interesting strategic note: I forgot that point tracker was on (and that we had agreed to have it on) until about 2/3 through the game when Jdaki gets the Trusty Steed and starts milking it for Silver.  There was an interesting "trash a Feodum" give him something else tension in the midgame.  At the end, I got a small lead on the turn before Jdaki closed it out.  This one was just too messy for me to really know what was optimal.  I think Jdaki's early game Golds ended up being key.

Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1377462230173.txt Jdaki 15 No Pawns 44

This was a Governor game.  I hadn't played Governor since isotropic went down, but I was happy to see it.  Grand Market was on the board, but I think it was a little bit of a trap -- too slow to build up to multiple province turns with Govna'.  Anyway, I supplemented my Governor with some Death Carts that landed me some super early Provinces.  With Jdaki pumping me full of Silver, me gaining Gold, and getting labbed by Jdaki's governor-for-the-draw, the game ended quickly.  I also liked that Jdaki bought Masq for me to give him some of the ruins I ended up not trashing because of my Death Cart.


Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1377462858608.txt Jdaki 39 No Pawns 33

This one was interesting.  I open Chapel/Silver with the intention to go into a Journeyman draw bonanza.  Jdaki opens Silver-Silver for a BM-Ghost Ship thing.  My Journeyman was sort of an interesting soft counter to Ghost Ship, but his strategy ends up pulling through in the end.  He had to buy the last two Provinces, and he did.  I think the difference was likely the fact that I bought Rogue midgame instead of another Gold.  That was probably a bad decision.  Maybe the Caches were a bad idea.  I'm not sure, but I sure stalled in the last couple of turns.

Game 4: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1377463473151.txt Jdaki 30 No Pawns 40

This one felt Kludgy.  I opened Monument/Silver with the intent to pile up some VP chips while slowing down his Smugglers/Tournament open with Witch later on.  But, I ended up having massive Monument/Witch collision.  Favoring Witch over Monument when they collided was a good idea and I feel like it really slowed him down.  He piled up 7 Tournaments, Scavenger had some utility for me, but in the end, this one came down to Witching well.  Maybe it was luck too.  I'm not sure.


Game 5: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1377464196533.txt Jdaki 35 No Pawns 32

I was really disappointed in this one, mostly because of the path dependence of the game.  Sea Hag, Upgrade, Ghost Ship, and both Fishing and Farming Villages were key.  Also, Moat was on the board.  My goal at the outset was to get Sea Hag, get some Upgrades to clean out the inevitable Curses, maybe a Moat or two, and use the Farming Village to skip past the Curses I didn't manage to trash.  What was disappointing was that the first two plays of Jdaki's Hag flipped my Upgrade.  Such is life.  I adapted by getting money and more money, and trying to get points while I could.  Nevertheless, I knew that some Villagey Ghost Ship thing was headed my way, and the fact that I was two cards thicker than I should have been was going to mean that his deck was going to be way faster to that than mine.  Thus, I decided to plan on Ghost Ship mitigation rather than full-on trying to do what he was going to do.  And, it almost worked.  By the time he was Ghost Shipping me every turn, I had a significant Province lead, and some key cards like Moat and several Farming Villages to help with the mitigation.  It wasn't enough, but it was the best effort I felt I could put forth given the path that I ended up following.  Despite not buying a single GS, I only lose by 3.


Game 6: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50d1a9b7e4b00e9b1242089f.1377464881596.txt Jdaki 37 No Pawns 42

This game was interesting, and then frustrating, and then interesting again.  Noble Brigand was on the board, and I decided from the beginning that it would be key.  As such, I invested heavily in Cache, and made sure I had the NB upper hand.  Plus, you could probably say that my NBs hit pretty well.  I stake a lead that I see Jdaki trying to eat away by getting Duchies.  So, I get some Duchies too.  We run out Duchies and both start really, really, really choking on Green.  So, we buy more Estates.  At some point in the midgame, I picked up an Herbalist, which helped me keep playing good money.  Once Estates ran out, I had a 7 point lead with one Province remaining... 5 or 6 NBs remaining and Vineyard is on the board.  Jdaki's only path to victory is to buy potion and get some Vineyards.  I know this, and hope that I can hit $4 5 to 6 more times.  Herbalist feels like it is key in this task, and I successfully close out before Jdaki can climb up the Vine wall to nab a Province.

All in all, these games were definitely thinkers, and there was lots of variety.  Thanks to Jdaki for the interesting set of games.
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Slyfox

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #56 on: August 25, 2013, 11:45:50 pm »
+2

zaubererer defeates Slyfox 3-1.

*Game 1: zaubererer 28, Slyfox 25
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50627ce1a2e66a82a6ae24ef.1377444182807.txt
Key cards: Marauder, Remake, Laboratory, Shelters

Close game, but zaubererer's five Laboratories help propel him to the win. I bought two copies of Remake, hoping to trash down more quickly, but they collided twice (and perhaps I should have trashed the Remake into a Laboratory one of those times, but did not).  And Remake isn't so good at trashing Shelters.

*Game 2: Slyfox 42, zaubererer 28
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50627ce1a2e66a82a6ae24ef.1377444942813.txt
Key cards: Ambassador, Tunnel, Inn

I bought an Inn with my 5/2 opening, and then Ambasssadors in both turns 3 and 4.  zaubererer picks up one Amassador and not until turn 5.  Inn/Tunnel gives me 10 Gold (out of 27 cards) in my deck by the end to win the Province split 6/2.

*Game 3: zaubererer 30, Slyfox 20
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50627ce1a2e66a82a6ae24ef.1377446262232.txt
Key cards: Witch, Scrying Pool, Procession, Haven

I make the bone-headed mistake to go after Scrying Pool in a game with Witch and no good cantrip action or village.  I have no idea what I was thinking.  Procession was the only way to get +actions, and I didn't pick one up until too late.  I got the engine running at the end, but it was too little, far too late.

*Game 4: zaubererer 47, Slyfox 30
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50627ce1a2e66a82a6ae24ef.1377446923813.txt
Key cards: Apprentice, Tunnel, Horse Traders

I saw the Horse Trader + Tunnel combo, but I didn't immediately appreciate the synergy of Apprentice + Tunnel, allowing Apprentice to trash Golds for massive draw, and Horse Traders to discard the Tunnels each turn.  Horse Traders also added the +buy and made it easy to hit $5 early.  I made a critical mistake by opening Trading Post (rather than Apprentice) on my 5/2 opening.  And then the Trading Post and my Horse Traders collided on turn 6 and 8.  zaubererer grabbed a Horse Trader, a bunch of Apprentices, and a few Tunnels for an easy win.

----

Overall: one close game that I lost as second player, one solid win, and two games in which I simply got out-played by zaubererer.  I made some key strategic mistakes (comments and suggestions welcome!), so overall I was pretty unhappy with my play, but I look forward to the next round.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2013, 11:57:11 pm by Slyfox »
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blueblimp

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #57 on: August 26, 2013, 03:17:11 am »
+1

Game 2: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130824/log.5066a4d70cf20e086dc89e71.1377367447114.txt
Beggar, Chapel, Black Market, Trade Route, Tunnel, Cutpurse, Silk Road, Counting House, Inn, Treasury, Witch
Yeah SR was a bit iffy here since lacking gainers. At least the +buy off TR is decent given the number of victory cards present. A winning strategy here is probably going to buy Witch at some point, which I didn't (partly because it wouldn't get played a lot in a bloated deck), so... not too surprising you won out. Though it is crazy how many points the SR racked up by the end.

Quote
Game 3: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130824/log.5066a4d70cf20e086dc89e71.1377368021233.txt
Urchin, Alchemist, Baron, Ironworks, Quarry, Thief, Apprentice, Mandarin, Mystic, Altar
I am not pleased with 5/2 on this board at all, but I go ahead and open Apprentice/-, blueblimp goes Ironworks/Urchin. I don't love Urchin or Mercenary here because Alchemist should counter them nicely. If you collide Urchins really soon it might be worth it, but that isn't the case for my opponent in this game. Our engines aren't very impressive here, I want to blame my draws but it's more likely I made some stupid purchases or Apprentice plays. I win this by getting an early lead and then aggressively trashing Province/Golds to end the game before my opponent can catch up. 18 turns to 4 Provinces looks so slow for what was available on the board though.
Definitely outplayed here. The +buy of Baron is more important than anything Mercenary does, because Apprentice can do trashing. Since there's no village, choice of terminal is crucial, and I chose the wrong one.

Quote
Game 4: http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130824/log.5066a4d70cf20e086dc89e71.1377368585338.txt
Courtyard, Squire, Lookout, Market Square, Conspirator, Nomad Camp, Spy, Duke, Royal Seal, Forge
My third game to get 5/2. The kingdom offers a two paths in my mind: Duchy/Duke with Squires/Nomad Camps or Provinces with big Conspirator engine. I go for the Duchy/Duke plan. My opponent opens Lookout/Market Square with the goal of getting a few Golds and contesting Duchies. I win the Duchy split 5/3 and my opponent hasn't been able to gain much gold, and his deck is now flooded with Copper. This makes a Conspirator chain impossible, so he doesn't have much hope of catching up on Provinces. He resigns before the piles can run out.

I really wanted to try the Conspirator engine, but 5/2 was no good for it. I'm interested in how fast that deck can clear Provinces. You would want to open Lookout/Conspirator I think. Get a second Lookout and a few Market Squares. Never gain Gold with Market Square and then lots of Spies/Market Squares/Conspirator until you can at least double Province.
My play this game was just terrible, with a gameplan that made no sense at all. Duchy/Duke seems plausibly the right way to go, and some kind of plan involving Squire/Nomad Camp/Courtyard seems infinitely better for that than the Lookout/Market Square shenanigans I tried. Also my copper buys in midgame didn't make any sense--I was thinking Duchy/Duke, but then I lost the split and had nuked any chance to switch to a Conspirator chain.

Quote
Thanks for the match blueblimp!
Thanks for the games too. Always fun to see how non-mirrors play out.
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shark_bait

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #58 on: August 26, 2013, 12:50:15 pm »
+1

Quote
eliegel over Sharkbait 3-1

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1377481958172.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1377482346430.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1377482783128.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1377484079689.txt

Thanks for the games sharkbait, hopefully i'll have time to post a write up of this tomorrow.

Game 1:  I was hoping for the 6-Card golden deck w/ 2 lighthouses to protect against attacks.  a great early Count makes me optimistic.  But failure to get Lighthouses early (I got a couple of Silver) results in getting a couple of ruins on Turn 9.  This sets me back as I never fully recover from that added junk.  Well played by Eliegel, if those Silver had been Lighthouses, I think I could have done better and had a chance.

Game 2:  Masquerade-BM mirror.  A dud Estate hand on my last turn results in a 2-point win for Eliegel instead of a tie (had it been Duchy) or win (had it been Province).

Game 3:  SR/IW/XR.  A great triple SR on Turn 5 sets me up for 5/3 split and easy victory.

Game 4:  This is the one that frustrated me.  He outplayed me in Game 1 and won.  Games 2 and 3 were pretty much boring mirrors wherein he won Game 2 and I won Game 3.  This is the game where I feel I outplayed him but subsequently lost.  The game featured Taxman/Loan/Market Square/Tactician.  I opted for an IW opening which resulted in me having 3 Taxman to his 1 in addition to picking up some GH's "for free".  I end the game with 7 Platinum to his 5.  I had a comfortable lead  of 56 to 40 with 1 Colony left (After turn 21).  And then with FPA he's able to get Colony/Province/2xDuchy with his last turns as opposed to Duchy for my single turn stealing the win.  If anyone can see anyway that I could have played the end-game better I'd love to hear comments.  Because I felt like I set myself up perfectly and it just didn't pan out.

IMO, the brutal blow for me came on Turn 21 when I only got Colony/Estate off of my Tactician turn.  I was expecting Colony/Duchy at the worst with a very likely chance of double Colony for the win.
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Polk5440

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #59 on: August 26, 2013, 03:00:25 pm »
+1

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1377484079689.txt

If anyone can see anyway that I could have played the end-game better I'd love to hear comments.  Because I felt like I set myself up perfectly and it just didn't pan out.

IMO, the brutal blow for me came on Turn 21 when I only got Colony/Estate off of my Tactician turn.  I was expecting Colony/Duchy at the worst with a very likely chance of double Colony for the win.

Well, in turn 21 that was bad luck that you couldn't hit one of his Golds with Taxman, but your decks are a lot closer after turn 21 that it first appears. You both have $39. His money density is actually slightly higher (35 total cards to 34). He also has an extra Courtyard and Hamlet instead of 2 Taxmen, which is not such a bad tradeoff, either, given what he needs to score. So after turn 21, I think his deck actually has more scoring potential. You are up 16 points, and he needs a little luck, but it wasn't like he needed an egregious amount of luck to overcome that deficit.

I am surprised you didn't get a second Ironworks early to grab more Hamlets or Courtyards (or Great Halls) instead of one of those 3 Taxmen.

As far as the actual turn 21, the Taxman then draw technique netted you one point. What if instead you had played Courtyard first? (After Market Square and Ironworks-ing a Great Hall). Then decide whether to play a Taxman or two (depending on whether you find a Hamlet -- which in this case you would have -- and/or more money) in order to smooth your money across two turns? Suppose you did that, played one or two Taxmen, and you only got a Province. You set up your next turn with some good money, hopefully hit your opponent's good money this turn (of course it would have missed in this case) and be up 11 points with two Colonies left. He has a Tac turn, but can't go Colony without breaking PCR and knowing you have put a Platinum in your hand. If you really believed in your deck, maybe that would be the way to go.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 03:21:49 pm by Polk5440 »
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ragingduckd

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Re: GokoDom II: Round 2 Discussion Thread
« Reply #60 on: August 26, 2013, 08:28:13 pm »
0

Quote
eliegel over Sharkbait 3-1

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1377481958172.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1377482346430.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1377482783128.txt
http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130825/log.50ea2963e4b0429cfe091cec.1377484079689.txt

Thanks for the games sharkbait, hopefully i'll have time to post a write up of this tomorrow.

Game 1:  I was hoping for the 6-Card golden deck w/ 2 lighthouses to protect against attacks.  a great early Count makes me optimistic.  But failure to get Lighthouses early (I got a couple of Silver) results in getting a couple of ruins on Turn 9.  This sets me back as I never fully recover from that added junk.  Well played by Eliegel, if those Silver had been Lighthouses, I think I could have done better and had a chance.

I've tried this sort of thing a lot, mostly out of sheer stubbornness. Cultist is so infuriatingly unskippable that I always want to find ways to skip it.

The problem with defending with Lighthouse is that you're going to have a couple of mid-game turns where you fail to play one. And since it's Cultist instead of an ordinary junker, those two turns leave you with 6 Ruins instead of 1-2 Curses.
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