Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Baronly Any Time to Pirate Ship  (Read 3697 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

nopawnsintended

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 220
  • Respect: +186
    • View Profile
    • My Website
Baronly Any Time to Pirate Ship
« on: August 13, 2013, 12:30:30 am »
+3

When I first learned Dominion, I fell in love with Pirate Ship.  Now, I Baronly play with it.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1376368041927.txt
Logged

ragingduckd

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1059
  • Respect: +3527
    • View Profile
Re: Baronly Any Time to Pirate Ship
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2013, 02:37:43 am »
+4

When I first learned Dominion, I fell in love with Pirate Ship.  Now, I Baronly play with it.

http://dom.retrobox.eu/?/20130812/log.51265786e4b0920d7cbf7d58.1376368041927.txt

Hmm... I think this pawn was intentional.
Logged
Salvager Extension | Isotropish Leaderboard | Game Data | Log Search & other toys | Salvager Bug Reports

Salvager not working for me at all today. ... Please help! I can't go back to playing without it like an animal!

shark_bait

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1103
  • Shuffle iT Username: shark_bait
  • Luckyfin and Land of Hinter for iso aliases
  • Respect: +1868
    • View Profile
Re: Baronly Any Time to Pirate Ship
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2013, 09:31:22 am »
0

Oh my gosh, this just goes to show that one can read the English language solely from the beginning and ending of a word, the letters in the middle mean jack s***.  I didn't even notice until AI's comment, and even then I first went to the log and was thinking, "did he buy a Pawn early for the +Buy?"
Logged
Hello.  Name's Bruce.  It's all right.  I understand.  Why trust a shark, right?

Is quite curious - Who is the mystical "Celestial Chameleon"?

ragingduckd

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1059
  • Respect: +3527
    • View Profile
Re: Baronly Any Time to Pirate Ship
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2013, 09:34:38 am »
+2

Oh my gosh, this just goes to show that one can read the English language solely from the beginning and ending of a word, the letters in the middle mean jack s***.

Waht on Etrah are you tliknalg aoubt? The lterets in the mdldie of a wrod are citrcial!
Logged
Salvager Extension | Isotropish Leaderboard | Game Data | Log Search & other toys | Salvager Bug Reports

Salvager not working for me at all today. ... Please help! I can't go back to playing without it like an animal!

theory

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3603
  • Respect: +6125
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Strategy
Re: Baronly Any Time to Pirate Ship
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2013, 09:43:50 am »
+3

This is actually a myth:

Quote
In a way this is a cheap magician's trick, because the only reason people can read the scrambled words is because they aren't very scrambled. Fixing the first and last letters means 2 and 3 letter words don't change at all, and 4 letter words just swap the middle letters. That's the bulk of our vocabulary. Try making a sentence with very long words, and our ability to read words "as a whole" mysteriously vanishes. To wit:

Bblaaesl pryleas pnmrrioefg sllaimy aeoulltsby dvrseee clbrpmaaoe tteenmrat.

is incomprehensible, because now every word is truly scrambled, with the first and last letters being an insignificant proportion of the total.
Logged

ragingduckd

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1059
  • Respect: +3527
    • View Profile
Re: Baronly Any Time to Pirate Ship
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2013, 10:19:22 am »
+4

This is actually a myth:

Quote
In a way this is a cheap magician's trick, because the only reason people can read the scrambled words is because they aren't very scrambled. Fixing the first and last letters means 2 and 3 letter words don't change at all, and 4 letter words just swap the middle letters. That's the bulk of our vocabulary. Try making a sentence with very long words, and our ability to read words "as a whole" mysteriously vanishes. To wit:

Bblaaesl pryleas pnmrrioefg sllaimy aeoulltsby dvrseee clbrpmaaoe tteenmrat.

is incomprehensible, because now every word is truly scrambled, with the first and last letters being an insignificant proportion of the total.

I think the author of that quote was missing the point, or more likely, was deliberately obscuring it. Nobody would suggest that letter order is irrelevant to written communication, or that the brain can effortlessly descramble any legal English sentence. The real point is that English as it is usually written has enormous redundancy, much of which is provided by short words that provide context for the long ones, which our brains pretty much skim over as a result.

As for the scrambled sentence in the quote, it's a deliberately artificial construction. I've never written anything remotely similar, even in technical research articles. In addition to its rather clumsy phrasing, it's also written so as to have:
1. No words shorter than seven letters
2. None of the ten-hundred most common words that comprise 50% of written English
3. No natural repetitions like "players playing" and "similarly... similarly"
4. Long, vague words ("performing" and "treatment") instead of short, precise ones ("playing" and "pay")
5. The (presumably-accidental) omission  of an "i" and an "r" from "sllaimy"

Here's the same sentence, still with the long words and unnatural phrasing, but with some of the short words put back in:

"If two bblaaesl pryleas are pnialyg at a slaiimr leevl, tehn they aeoultsby dvrseee to rvceeie slaiimr pay."
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 05:11:39 am by ragingduckd »
Logged
Salvager Extension | Isotropish Leaderboard | Game Data | Log Search & other toys | Salvager Bug Reports

Salvager not working for me at all today. ... Please help! I can't go back to playing without it like an animal!

dghunter79

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 279
  • Respect: +320
    • View Profile
Re: Baronly Any Time to Pirate Ship
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2013, 07:35:09 pm »
0

There actually isn urban myth claiming that letter order within words is irrelevant, as long as the first and last letters are fixed.  I'd kinda guess that shark_bait saw it somewhere.  I know I've seen it all over the place.  Never seen it debunked before, though.

The original link:

http://scienceavenger.blogspot.com/2007/12/cambridge-word-scramble-study-its-fake.html

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4386
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: Baronly Any Time to Pirate Ship
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2013, 07:39:03 pm »
+3

There actually isn urban myth claiming that letter order within words is irrelevant, as long as the first and last letters are fixed.  I'd kinda guess that shark_bait saw it somewhere.  I know I've seen it all over the place.  Never seen it debunked before, though.

The original link:

http://scienceavenger.blogspot.com/2007/12/cambridge-word-scramble-study-its-fake.html


You may want to read the posts directly above yours....

dondon151

  • 2012 US Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2522
  • Respect: +1856
    • View Profile
Re: Baronly Any Time to Pirate Ship
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2013, 08:33:02 pm »
0

Hmm... I think this pawn was intentional.

This pun was actually entirely lost on me because I couldn't fathom how porn was related to this topic.
Logged

dghunter79

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 279
  • Respect: +320
    • View Profile
Re: Baronly Any Time to Pirate Ship
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2013, 02:57:35 am »
0

There actually isn urban myth claiming that letter order within words is irrelevant, as long as the first and last letters are fixed.  I'd kinda guess that shark_bait saw it somewhere.  I know I've seen it all over the place.  Never seen it debunked before, though.

The original link:

http://scienceavenger.blogspot.com/2007/12/cambridge-word-scramble-study-its-fake.html


You may want to read the posts directly above yours....

I did.  Then I wrote that post.

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4386
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: Baronly Any Time to Pirate Ship
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2013, 07:46:31 am »
+1

There actually isn urban myth claiming that letter order within words is irrelevant, as long as the first and last letters are fixed.  I'd kinda guess that shark_bait saw it somewhere.  I know I've seen it all over the place.  Never seen it debunked before, though.

The original link:

http://scienceavenger.blogspot.com/2007/12/cambridge-word-scramble-study-its-fake.html


You may want to read the posts directly above yours....

I did.  Then I wrote that post.


So, let me get this straight:
You read a post about the mixed up letter thing, then a post where theory said that it was a myth and gave a short passage from an article about that, then a post where ragingduckd disputes the premise of the claim that it's a myth, then you think it's a good idea to say that it's a myth and give a link to the exact article theory quoted from, where he already quoted the relevant section?

Okay... why?

Edit: I'm not saying that there can't be a good reason, I just can't think of one and would thus like to know what yours was.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 08:08:03 am by WanderingWinder »
Logged

dghunter79

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 279
  • Respect: +320
    • View Profile
Re: Baronly Any Time to Pirate Ship
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2013, 02:03:39 pm »
0


Okay... why?

Edit: I'm not saying that there can't be a good reason, I just can't think of one and would thus like to know what yours was.


I was responding to ragingduck's "Nobody would suggest that letter order is irrelevant to written communication, or that the brain can effortlessly descramble any legal English sentence." 

But there actually is actually a popular urban myth claiming that letter order doesn't matter, and that the brain can automatically rearrange words.  One that I believed, and I think probably shark_bait believed.  The blog post that theory quoted talks about this urban myth in the part that theory didn't quote. 

Ragingduck is I guess unaware of this urban myth, and believes that the original claim was actually much milder: "The real point is that English as it is usually written has enormous redundancy, much of which is provided by short words that provide context for the long ones, which our brains pretty much skim over as a result."  But ragingduck is off-base.  His argument is pretty much in line with the debunking of this urban myth; he's not debunking the debunkers.  He just doesn't know which side he's on, because he's never encountered the urban myth, or has only encountered it in some weird watered-down off-brand form.

ycz6

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 676
  • Respect: +412
    • View Profile
Re: Baronly Any Time to Pirate Ship
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2013, 05:48:26 pm »
0

I think you are misreading ragingduckd's posts, then, because it seems clear to me that he HAS heard of the myth, and that his first post was an intentional reference to it.
Logged

ragingduckd

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1059
  • Respect: +3527
    • View Profile
Re: Baronly Any Time to Pirate Ship
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2013, 05:53:59 pm »
+5

I think you are misreading ragingduckd's posts, then, because it seems clear to me that he HAS heard of the myth, and that his first post was an intentional reference to it.

I think I am miswriting ragingduckd's posts.
Logged
Salvager Extension | Isotropish Leaderboard | Game Data | Log Search & other toys | Salvager Bug Reports

Salvager not working for me at all today. ... Please help! I can't go back to playing without it like an animal!

dghunter79

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 279
  • Respect: +320
    • View Profile
Re: Baronly Any Time to Pirate Ship
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2013, 12:15:45 pm »
0

I think you are misreading ragingduckd's posts, then, because it seems clear to me that he HAS heard of the myth, and that his first post was an intentional reference to it.

"Nobody would suggest that letter order is irrelevant to written communication, or that the brain can effortlessly descramble any legal English sentence."

I disagree with this, ragingduckd.  This very thing has which you claim nobody would suggest, has, contrary to your statement, been absolutely suggested!  Evidence, you demand?  If you go to the link I posted, you can see someone suggesting this very thing.
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.054 seconds with 20 queries.