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Author Topic: roguelike games  (Read 193647 times)

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popsofctown

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1150 on: September 25, 2019, 08:53:03 pm »
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My slay the spire interest ended abruptly

I think that might have some element of "brokenness hurts replayability"
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blueblimp

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1151 on: September 25, 2019, 09:30:16 pm »
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Has anyone tried Noita yet? It sounds interesting, I can't justify buying it yet but it's on my radar.
I'm intrigued by the per-pixel simulation. Reminds me a bit of games like Liquid War, Lemmings, Worms, etc.

The reviews make it sound like it's in a pretty early state though. So I might wait a while.

BTW I thought they might use the GPU to do the simulation, but the system requirements make it seem more like they're doing it on the CPU.
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LaLight

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1152 on: October 03, 2019, 01:05:40 pm »
+1



Took two extra hours from being cool, but I am still super happy i did that.
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LaLight

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1153 on: October 03, 2019, 01:38:41 pm »
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Also sorry this is in russian, but I think you get the point
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pacovf

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1154 on: December 31, 2019, 03:17:27 am »
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Cadence of Hyrule got a new character, and Dungeon mode (essentially CotN-style gameplay). Iím finding Dungeon mode to be hella difficult, but maybe Iím just very out of practice.
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popsofctown

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1155 on: January 16, 2020, 05:58:25 pm »
+1

They patched slay the spire and no one is posting here smh
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shraeye

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1156 on: January 16, 2020, 06:31:53 pm »
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I know!! I've had no time to dive in, but was eagerly awaiting my vicarious experiences
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GendoIkari

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1157 on: January 16, 2020, 07:42:52 pm »
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Cadence of Hyrule got a new character, and Dungeon mode (essentially CotN-style gameplay). Iím finding Dungeon mode to be hella difficult, but maybe Iím just very out of practice.

Woah really? I thought I was done with that game; but I guess I need to check it out again.
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pubby

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1158 on: January 16, 2020, 09:30:13 pm »
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They patched slay the spire and no one is posting here smh
Good point but wrong thread  :P
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pacovf

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1159 on: March 11, 2021, 04:18:31 pm »
+1

I have tried a couple of roguelikes lately, so it is time to bring this thread back!

The first one is Dead Cells. I thought they oversell the "metroidvania" part of the game. You unlock the mobility abilities relatively fast, they persist across runs, and for the most part none of them change the way you approach combat, which is the main draw of the game.

The combat itself is pretty good though, and the variety of weapons with their movesets, combos, and critical conditions is remarkable. While some are just slight variations on one another (e.g. slightly slower but stronger weapon, or changing the critical condition from attacking enemies with this or that status effect), some drastically change the way you approach combat (e.g. a sword that teleports you to the other side of the enemy you attack, or sandals that deal massive damage when you push enemies against a wall, and that's before looking into ranged weapons or skills). It really puts other ARPGs to shame in that department. An interesting thing it does is that the game drops weapons with higher stats as the run goes on, so you have to choose whether you would rather keep the weapon you already have, whose moveset you might prefer or that comboes with the rest of your equipment, or the new stronger weapon.

I am not a huge fan of the artstyle, but that might be because I am playing on the Swith in handheld mode. The artstyle is just not very clear, which is bad in a game that is balanced around the player never getting hit. They try to fix that by putting a giant exclamation mark on top of enemies right before they attack, but it's not an ideal solution either.

A couple more interesting things they do is that you have a lot of control over which biomes you visit on your way to the final boss. You can even choose the bosses you fight on your way there, although they are tied to the biomes you visit. That means you can avoid areas when your gear just isn't adapted to the enemies there. This is not something modern roguelikes do very often, it changes the way you approach the game. On the other hand, you unlock new equipment for future runs as drops from specific enemies, so you are still encouraged to visit all biomes regularly.

Another interesting concept is that the game rewards you for clearing areas quickly. This works great to give players an incentive not to comb every inch of every level, so the game keeps running at a brisk pace... or would, if it weren't because the rewards for combing every level are stat increases which boost your damage exponentially with each one you find, while the reward for clearing levels quickly is equipment which will likely be obsolete by the time you reach the final boss. It's a shame they didn't commit to the concept a bit more fully.


Has anyone tried Noita yet? It sounds interesting, I can't justify buying it yet but it's on my radar.

Tried Noita. It's... interesting. It's the least roguelike-feeling roguelike I have ever tried. I think they came up with the systems first, and the gameloop after. As I said in my earlier comment, the spell-crafting is fundamentally broken, so the only way to keep the player "honest" is by killing them often, so they are forced to make-do with new spells.

The reason why I say it feels un-roguelike is because of how... unfair (?) it feels. Stuff will kill you from the edge of the screen, explosives are sometimes hard to tell from the background, and there is a general chaotic energy to the whole proceedings that makes it so that your death is not always really your fault. You will rarely get one-shot (except for some moments where the devs are clearly trolling you), but situations in which you lose 30-50% of your health without much you can do about it are frequent. Especially when you are going straight down into unknown territory - your horizontal mobility is pretty bad, so it is hard to dodge enemies shooting at you from below. Or maybe I am just bad, I don't know.

That being said, trying to make OP spells is fun, the spell variety is astonishing, and there is a genuine sense of exploration to the game that I haven't seen in any other roguelike. I would recommend going in as blind as possible for that reason, although some mechanics are not explained very well, if at all. I just wish it took less time in every run to reach the point where you start having enough spell components and good enough wands to really start spellcrafting. The first 3 biomes or so, in which your spell options are rather limited, are fairly repetitive, and it makes experimenting with the many spells that come with "side effects" a much less appealing proposition when you're risking losing an hour or more of progress from some unexpectedly lethal combination of effects.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2021, 04:20:15 pm by pacovf »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1160 on: March 11, 2021, 07:45:01 pm »
+1

Well, I've never heard of any of the ones you mentioned, but I just picked Angband back up after I'd stopped playing several years ago. Might even make an updated version of my variant.

LostPhoenix

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1161 on: March 11, 2021, 08:28:52 pm »
+1

Dead Cells is one of my most-played games of 2020. Combat and movement is just so incredibly smooth and makes you feel like a boss.

Has anyone tried Hades? I've seen almost nothing but critical acclaim for it, but have yet to pick it up myself.
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pacovf

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1162 on: March 11, 2021, 08:54:24 pm »
+1

There is a thread specifically about Hades. Hades is great, although itís a rogue-lite more than a roguelike, with heavy focus on the story. If you enjoy Dead Cells, you will likely enjoy Hades too. I think it is overall the better game, but itís definitely easier and less wacky.
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Isis

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1163 on: March 11, 2021, 11:54:47 pm »
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HADES IS NOT A ROGUELIKE
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Isis

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1164 on: March 11, 2021, 11:55:38 pm »
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I think Hades is overrated (but Hades being overrated doesn't preclude it from being worth its purchase price at this level of acclaim)
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pacovf

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Re: roguelike games
« Reply #1165 on: March 28, 2021, 06:09:10 pm »
+1

Been playing some more Noita and... it's such a weird game. It's combining genres in odd ways. Like, it's a Falling Sand game, mixed with a roguelike a la DCSS... mixed with Worms, of all things? DCSS and Falling Sand is a great mix, makes it much more immersive than pretty much any other roguelike I have ever played. Worms and Falling Sand is also a great mix, things get silly and out of hand very easy. But Worms and DCSS are just... fundamentally opposed.

There's two ways to play the game. The first one is a straight action roguelike that takes maybe 2-3 hours per run, with a fair amount of chaos from the way the physics, the wand/spell crafting, and the "perks" combine with each other. You will likely end up killing yourself all on your own, and that's ok. I recommend just playing the Daily Practice Run (after you've tried the default mode a few times), which starts you deeper in the mountain. You will skipp the first one or two biomes, which are kind of repetitive.

Then there's the "long run" approach, in which you spend 2-3 hours "farming" the main path until you become a minor god, then you "sequence break" and go explore a world that is ridiculously large compared to the default areas, with secrets laying on secrets everywhere. The exploration is genuinely fun and inventive, forcing you to exploit the perks and spellcrafting to its limits, and rewarding the observing player. The problem is that the reward for exploration is death way too frequently. You will often unlock spells and perks (for that run and all future ones) that will kill you if you don't know ahead of time what to expect. Or you will find monsters with "cheap" skills that will kill you out of nowhere. Bam, you just lost a ten hour run. Want to explore some more? Gotta grind for a few hours before you can try again. You can check the wiki ahead of time to make sure you avoid the most common pitfalls, but that just kills the desire to explore.

Anyway, I currently have a love/hate relationship with this game.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2021, 01:31:00 pm by pacovf »
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