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Author Topic: Feedback on games  (Read 11902 times)

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sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #75 on: January 31, 2013, 05:11:12 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/31/game-20130131-140856-1a1d2386.html

I'm pretty sure I overprepared this game.  I went for alchemists, getting eight of them, and a lot of grand markets, but he pulled off huge hunting party stacks.  Also, a couple turns I forgot to play all my copper.  Might have won me the game if I did...
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

eHalcyon

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #76 on: January 31, 2013, 05:11:44 pm »
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With Hunting Party, you probably don't want all the prizes.  I would say Princess would be most useful and Followers would be brutal every turn.

The kingdom has a lot of neat stuff in it though.  Hoard is always fun, and Remodel could be used to turn extra Gold into more Provinces.  Trade Route can be nice for +Buy as well.  With Followers giving out Estates, it will give +$2 easy.  It can be nice for trashing out extra Coppers and Estates from Followers.  Of course, HP doesn't really mind the extra Estates.  If multiple terminals are picked up (Followers, Princess, Remodel, Trade Route) then Fishing Village is a great one to include.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #77 on: January 31, 2013, 05:14:05 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/31/game-20130131-140856-1a1d2386.html

I'm pretty sure I overprepared this game.  I went for alchemists, getting eight of them, and a lot of grand markets, but he pulled off huge hunting party stacks.  Also, a couple turns I forgot to play all my copper.  Might have won me the game if I did...

You didn't need that Festival, really.  You didn't have multiple terminals.  Since you have mostly cantrips, you do not at all need so many Alchemists.  Also, with so many cantrips, Conspirator is very good.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #78 on: January 31, 2013, 05:17:18 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/31/game-20130131-140856-1a1d2386.html

I'm pretty sure I overprepared this game.  I went for alchemists, getting eight of them, and a lot of grand markets, but he pulled off huge hunting party stacks.  Also, a couple turns I forgot to play all my copper.  Might have won me the game if I did...

You actually don't need Alchemist here.  There is enough reliable draw with HP/Caravan and Warehouse for sifting.  Try a solitaire game where you Open with Salvager/Silver.  With your 4's, get a healthy balance of Caravan/Conspirator.  If you get $3, go for Warehouse.  With $5, you want to pound that HP stack.  Festival could be nice for the +Buy, but with no useful terminals, it's power is diminished.  Once you get enough non-copper coin, start getting those GM and gradually shift into Double/Triple Province turn mode.  Remember that Salvager can be used to greatly accelerate the endgame by trashing a Province for $8.
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sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #79 on: January 31, 2013, 05:21:36 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/31/game-20130131-140856-1a1d2386.html

I'm pretty sure I overprepared this game.  I went for alchemists, getting eight of them, and a lot of grand markets, but he pulled off huge hunting party stacks.  Also, a couple turns I forgot to play all my copper.  Might have won me the game if I did...

You didn't need that Festival, really.  You didn't have multiple terminals.  Since you have mostly cantrips, you do not at all need so many Alchemists.  Also, with so many cantrips, Conspirator is very good.

I got the festival trying to push myself up to $6 for the grand market, but didn't think about how a silver would be better.  As for the conspirator, I was thinking about how I was getting so many grand markets...  But I could have gotten them instead of the caravans.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

eHalcyon

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #80 on: January 31, 2013, 05:36:25 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/31/game-20130131-140856-1a1d2386.html

I'm pretty sure I overprepared this game.  I went for alchemists, getting eight of them, and a lot of grand markets, but he pulled off huge hunting party stacks.  Also, a couple turns I forgot to play all my copper.  Might have won me the game if I did...

You didn't need that Festival, really.  You didn't have multiple terminals.  Since you have mostly cantrips, you do not at all need so many Alchemists.  Also, with so many cantrips, Conspirator is very good.

I got the festival trying to push myself up to $6 for the grand market, but didn't think about how a silver would be better.  As for the conspirator, I was thinking about how I was getting so many grand markets...  But I could have gotten them instead of the caravans.

If it was a choice between Festival and Silver, yeah take the Festival.  But you could also take Conspirator, which is better for the deck you had.

Also, if you already have a bunch of cantrips to activate them and you don't need the extra +Buy, it will often be better for you to buy 2 Conspirator instead of 1 Grand Market.
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sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #81 on: February 01, 2013, 05:29:44 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201302/01/game-20130201-142651-454ad87f.html

I went for duchy/duke, but didn't think about how I probably shouldn't trash my coppers at the beginning...  I realized this after getting a moneylender and a lookout.  He got a couple duchies, and four of the dukes.  I realized he might still have a bit of a point lead (I'm not sure if he did, though) and started piledriving the gardens.  We split them, and I won.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

ftl

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #82 on: February 01, 2013, 05:40:58 pm »
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All of the victory cards you went for - Duchy, Duke, Gardens - are those which WANT copper in your deck, and yet you opened moneylender/lookout.

You may want to get in the habit of, before making your first buy, envisioning at least roughly what your strategy is going to be; in this game, both the actions you bought were worse for you than Silver, IMO, and didn't fit in to what you were doing. You need to decide whether you want trashing at all before you decide to open with two trashers!
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sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #83 on: February 01, 2013, 05:55:26 pm »
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All of the victory cards you went for - Duchy, Duke, Gardens - are those which WANT copper in your deck, and yet you opened moneylender/lookout.

You may want to get in the habit of, before making your first buy, envisioning at least roughly what your strategy is going to be; in this game, both the actions you bought were worse for you than Silver, IMO, and didn't fit in to what you were doing. You need to decide whether you want trashing at all before you decide to open with two trashers!

I realized that almost right after I bought them.  And I even mentioned it in the post.


http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201302/01/game-20130201-145240-2afde29f.html

I originally planned on a farming village/ghost ship engine, but things started turning strange.  It turned into a golden deck with an engine for a while, but once he started getting duchies and dukes I realized I needed to end the game.  I wasn't wanting to end it that fast because I didn't know if I was in the lead, but I realized that would be my only hope.  I did end up winning, though.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #84 on: February 01, 2013, 06:05:24 pm »
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I only had to look at turn 1. Don't buy the secret chamber here until you know how it fits into your deck. You are going to be trashing your estates quickly so secret chamber will probably be a handicap to your economy instead of a boost. Later on it might provide a useful reaction or provide a good discard for coins but you won't want as a passenger in your deck until then.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #85 on: February 01, 2013, 06:16:50 pm »
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Yup, you did the same thing again.  Stop going for the most points possible, and just go for more points than are possible for your opponent to get. 

Once you've got a 'golden" deck where you are also playing ghostship every turn, just buy/bishop a province every turn until it's over.  No messing around with outpost etc. look at how many of your outpost turns were totally wasted, or used to buy crap like silvers, which actually slows down/hurts your golden deck.

Also, I would have skipped the secret chamber on the 2/5.  As you can see, you only revealed it once (and it's a pretty poor defense vs ghost ship. And then you upgraded it.  Meaning early game it slowed you down.  Generally SC is pretty terrible, except vs thief/ noble brigand/ pirate. Or some times in grand market or double tact games. SC/herbalist/duchess are usually worth passing up on in a 5/2 start with other viable terminals.
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sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #86 on: February 01, 2013, 10:13:59 pm »
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Yup, you did the same thing again.  Stop going for the most points possible, and just go for more points than are possible for your opponent to get. 

Once you've got a 'golden" deck where you are also playing ghostship every turn, just buy/bishop a province every turn until it's over.  No messing around with outpost etc. look at how many of your outpost turns were totally wasted, or used to buy crap like silvers, which actually slows down/hurts your golden deck.

I wasn't sure if I was winning the entire time, but I realized he was rapidly getting points.

Quote
Also, I would have skipped the secret chamber on the 2/5.  As you can see, you only revealed it once (and it's a pretty poor defense vs ghost ship. And then you upgraded it.  Meaning early game it slowed you down.  Generally SC is pretty terrible, except vs thief/ noble brigand/ pirate. Or some times in grand market or double tact games. SC/herbalist/duchess are usually worth passing up on in a 5/2 start with other viable terminals.

Yeah, I'm kind of regretting getting that secret chamber.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #87 on: February 04, 2013, 08:20:54 pm »
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http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201302/04/game-20130204-171726-6fe25735.html

As I was looking at the cards, I was thinking about maybe trying some mining village/ghost ship engine, but I realized that where was no trashing.  And the sea hag.  I then went for just pure BM+ghost ship.  I'm not sure if this is what I should have done, but I still won in the end.  I didn't follow the PPR, but my deck was getting worse by the moment so I realized I would have to act as soon as I could.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #88 on: February 04, 2013, 09:04:30 pm »
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No reason to not open with Sea Hag here... You may have gotten crushed if your opponent opened Sea Hag/Silver instead of Baron/Silver.

I would consider Vault on this board even despite Ghost Ship because Vault turns Curses into money. If you get hit with a Ghost Ship when you have Vault in hand, just save it for next turn.
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sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #89 on: February 05, 2013, 12:38:20 am »
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No reason to not open with Sea Hag here... You may have gotten crushed if your opponent opened Sea Hag/Silver instead of Baron/Silver.

I would consider Vault on this board even despite Ghost Ship because Vault turns Curses into money. If you get hit with a Ghost Ship when you have Vault in hand, just save it for next turn.

I didn't think about getting Sea Hag when I had decided on my strategy, and when I realized I had forgotten to get one I just decided to stick with it.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #90 on: February 05, 2013, 02:28:03 pm »
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as soon as we went baron, I would have gone 2 seahags.  slog him up and make that baron another dead card in his hand.  Then grab vault so those sea hags dont slow you down either.  However your GS BM worked well. It slowed down his cursing. And then he had bad luck on SH, discarding estates instead of good cards.

PS.  Yeah, you don't want to build an "engine" around ghost ship. That's like saying you want to build a village/moat engine.  It aint going to happen. GS/MV is basically a 9$ lab (with a rather nasty attack thrown in of course).  That MV is better off being a silver.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #91 on: February 05, 2013, 05:22:06 pm »
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PS.  Yeah, you don't want to build an "engine" around ghost ship. That's like saying you want to build a village/moat engine.  It aint going to happen. GS/MV is basically a 9$ lab (with a rather nasty attack thrown in of course).  That MV is better off being a silver.
Well, Ghost Ship does a very good job of slowing the game down, so you can make some engines you wouldn't otherwise make, including things where Ghost Ship is the primary source of draw, provided there is enough other engine support.

In this kingdom you can't, since there is no trashing, but it's actually possible sometimes. Generally though, yeah, you need a lot more support than engines based off of better drawing cards.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #92 on: February 05, 2013, 05:27:07 pm »
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You DO want to build an engine around ghost ship, in general.

sudgy

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #93 on: February 05, 2013, 05:29:26 pm »
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PS.  Yeah, you don't want to build an "engine" around ghost ship. That's like saying you want to build a village/moat engine.  It aint going to happen. GS/MV is basically a 9$ lab (with a rather nasty attack thrown in of course).  That MV is better off being a silver.
Well, Ghost Ship does a very good job of slowing the game down, so you can make some engines you wouldn't otherwise make, including things where Ghost Ship is the primary source of draw, provided there is enough other engine support.

In this kingdom you can't, since there is no trashing, but it's actually possible sometimes. Generally though, yeah, you need a lot more support than engines based off of better drawing cards.

I actually did build one earlier, with upgrade and bishop for trashing and the farming village as my village.
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   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #94 on: February 05, 2013, 06:12:55 pm »
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You DO want to build an engine around ghost ship, in general.

Depends on what you mean by "around". It was implied that Jerk of All trades meant using Ghost Ship as the primary source of drawing, not just as the attack.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #95 on: February 06, 2013, 02:42:11 pm »
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You DO want to build an engine around ghost ship, in general.

Depends on what you mean by "around". It was implied that Jerk of All trades meant using Ghost Ship as the primary source of drawing, not just as the attack.

Right.  if an engine is possible, and ghost ship is on the board, build the engine with GS included!  But on a board with no trashing and GS as the only source of draw.  I'd say no engine is possible.  That being said, if you have a crappy engine (like if your only trasher is a slow one, like trading post or something). Your opponents ghost ship is going to seriously hamper any attempts to get your engine to consistently fire.  And most of the time I'm going to just stick to ghost ship+ BM.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #96 on: February 06, 2013, 02:43:59 pm »
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You DO want to build an engine around ghost ship, in general.

Depends on what you mean by "around". It was implied that Jerk of All trades meant using Ghost Ship as the primary source of drawing, not just as the attack.

Right.  if an engine is possible, and ghost ship is on the board, build the engine with GS included!  But on a board with no trashing and GS as the only source of draw.  I'd say no engine is possible.  That being said, if you have a crappy engine (like if your only trasher is a slow one, like trading post or something). Your opponents ghost ship is going to seriously hamper any attempts to get your engine to consistently fire.  And most of the time I'm going to just stick to ghost ship+ BM.
My point is that in such boards, you do want to play an engine most of the time - provided there's a village, of course. The GS attack is ridiculously powerful against BM.

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #97 on: February 06, 2013, 02:52:24 pm »
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My point is that in such boards, you do want to play an engine most of the time - provided there's a village, of course. The GS attack is ridiculously powerful against BM.

Yeah but wouldn't you say that the attack is ridiculously powerful against engines too?  Village, village, ghostship, copper,copper would normally give you a decent shot to get a big hand.  But if you git hit by GS all of a sudden your chance of getting a big +draw card to really get going drops by half.

I think the lesson here is that GS is just ridiculously powerful most of the time. If it's possible to play it a lot (or every turn in engine decks) then do it.
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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #98 on: February 06, 2013, 02:55:39 pm »
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My point is that in such boards, you do want to play an engine most of the time - provided there's a village, of course. The GS attack is ridiculously powerful against BM.

Yeah but wouldn't you say that the attack is ridiculously powerful against engines too?  Village, village, ghostship, copper,copper would normally give you a decent shot to get a big hand.  But if you git hit by GS all of a sudden your chance of getting a big +draw card to really get going drops by half.

I think the lesson here is that GS is just ridiculously powerful most of the time. If it's possible to play it a lot (or every turn in engine decks) then do it.
Not nearly as much, no. But also, engines let you play it more often. So it's win-win for the engine.

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Re: Feedback on games
« Reply #99 on: February 06, 2013, 07:18:56 pm »
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I agree that Ghost ship is a strong indicator for engine. You prefer to not rely on it for the draw, but the fact that it makes the game so long tends to favor engine strategies. Additionally, the attack is definitely less painful when you have better cycling ability in your deck.
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