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Author Topic: Interview with Donald X.  (Read 785242 times)

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LastFootnote

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4150 on: February 28, 2018, 12:49:43 pm »
+4

You posted a link to an old comment where you said:

Quote
I had to raise it to $4, and that meant getting rid of a Throne-Room-with-a-bonus I had in another set, that had cost $4 but was no good at $5.

What was this Throne-Room-with-a-bonus?

(🎵I know, I know, it's serious 🎵)

I believe it was a choose one between a blank cantrip (+1 Card and +1 Action) and playing an Action card from your hand twice.

EDIT: Edited for clarity.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 02:55:51 pm by LastFootnote »
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4151 on: February 28, 2018, 12:52:59 pm »
+2

What was this Throne-Room-with-a-bonus?

I believe it was a choose one between [+1 Card, +1 Action] and throne.

Ah, ok. Thanks! Often these "abandoned" cards from old threads have eventually resurfaced with a tweak or two, so I was half-expecting this to be a Disciple or Procession progenitor.
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markusin

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4152 on: February 28, 2018, 12:56:51 pm »
0

Procession actually seems like a counterexample to this idea that card variants which seem stronger than the original should cost more. I guess it's easy enough to see the downside of Procession, but I still had to pause when I saw it costed 4 coins like Throne Room.
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crj

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4153 on: February 28, 2018, 01:47:03 pm »
+2

I believe it was a choose one between [+1 Card, +1 Action] and throne.
Is that really not worth $5? If you played it on itself, you could draw an extra Smithy's worth of cards, which has got to help with engine building. I'd certainly pay $5 for it if I got to choose card or action after I'd played a card twice.
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markusin

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4154 on: February 28, 2018, 02:12:40 pm »
+3

I believe it was a choose one between [+1 Card, +1 Action] and throne.
Is that really not worth $5? If you played it on itself, you could draw an extra Smithy's worth of cards, which has got to help with engine building. I'd certainly pay $5 for it if I got to choose card or action after I'd played a card twice.

You can throne a throne to play Smithy twice, then get built in actions without having to throne a non-terminal, but usually you have a non-terminal to throne that does more than +1 card +1 action.

It dunno, this looks fairly weaker than Royal Carriage, at least when reliability is a concern. It doesn't do anything that Throne Room doesn't when the cards do line up, and doesn't mitigate the downside of not drawing it with an action as well as Royal Carriage does.
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pacovf

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4155 on: February 28, 2018, 02:15:14 pm »
+3

I believe it was a choose one between [+1 Card, +1 Action] and throne.
Is that really not worth $5? If you played it on itself, you could draw an extra Smithy's worth of cards, which has got to help with engine building. I'd certainly pay $5 for it if I got to choose card or action after I'd played a card twice.

You misunderstand. Itís either a cantrip, or throne. Not, throne and either an extra action or an extra card.
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crj

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4156 on: February 28, 2018, 02:36:43 pm »
0

You misunderstand. Itís either a cantrip, or throne. Not, throne and either an extra action or an extra card.
Oh, OK. I do indeed misunderstand.

That could have been a lot clearer. (-8
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LastFootnote

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4157 on: February 28, 2018, 02:54:22 pm »
+1

You misunderstand. Itís either a cantrip, or throne. Not, throne and either an extra action or an extra card.
Oh, OK. I do indeed misunderstand.

That could have been a lot clearer. (-8

Sorry. I was typing it on my phone. I've updated it now.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 02:56:07 pm by LastFootnote »
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faust

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4158 on: February 28, 2018, 02:56:51 pm »
0

I believe it was a choose one between [+1 Card, +1 Action] and throne.
Is that really not worth $5? If you played it on itself, you could draw an extra Smithy's worth of cards, which has got to help with engine building. I'd certainly pay $5 for it if I got to choose card or action after I'd played a card twice.

You misunderstand. Itís either a cantrip, or throne. Not, throne and either an extra action or an extra card.
Still seems about as strong as Crown.
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pacovf

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4159 on: February 28, 2018, 03:22:00 pm »
0

You misunderstand. Itís either a cantrip, or throne. Not, throne and either an extra action or an extra card.
Oh, OK. I do indeed misunderstand.

That could have been a lot clearer. (-8

Sorry. I was typing it on my phone. I've updated it now.

I think you could have just replaced the ďandĒ for an ďorĒ, and it would have been good. Or is that not proper English?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4160 on: February 28, 2018, 04:28:01 pm »
+2

I believe it was a choose one between a blank cantrip (+1 Card and +1 Action) and playing an Action card from your hand twice.

EDIT: Edited for clarity.
The clear version is correct.

I thought, I'll make some cards that can be a cantrip or the card. Then I only did Throne Room and then I cut it.
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4161 on: February 28, 2018, 04:29:30 pm »
+16

Whatís on your mind, Donald?
I was just thinking about how much I enjoy giving self-referential answers to questions.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4162 on: February 28, 2018, 04:37:31 pm »
+2

I thought, I'll make some cards that can be a cantrip or the card. Then I only did Throne Room and then I cut it.

Reminds me of cycling from Magic.

Somehow the cantrip-or-other design feels closer to Crown/Werewolf than say, a choose-your-benefit(s) card like Steward.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4163 on: February 28, 2018, 04:44:02 pm »
+20

blank cantrip (+1 Card and +1 Action)
I think "Pig" should be the official name for this.

GendoIkari

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4164 on: March 01, 2018, 10:39:47 am »
+1

I believe it was a choose one between a blank cantrip (+1 Card and +1 Action) and playing an Action card from your hand twice.

EDIT: Edited for clarity.
The clear version is correct.

I thought, I'll make some cards that can be a cantrip or the card. Then I only did Throne Room and then I cut it.

Pawn and Hamlet do it. Moreso Pawn, because with Hamlet you get the cantrip before having to decide if you want to get more.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 10:41:24 am by GendoIkari »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4165 on: March 01, 2018, 01:11:32 pm »
0

blank cantrip (+1 Card and +1 Action)
I think "Pig" should be the official name for this.

?
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LostPhoenix

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4166 on: March 01, 2018, 01:14:26 pm »
+5

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Kirian

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4167 on: March 01, 2018, 01:38:35 pm »
+3

I took a glance at the Secret History of Seaside, and noticed something peculiar about Treasury:

Quote
Treasury: This replaced a card that had rules problems. I eventually figured out a way to deal with the problems, but not in time for it to make the set. It will make it somewhere else eventually.

Did the mystery card that this excerpt is referring to ever get released in a Dominion expansion?
No! I am pretty sure it's Stash.


Well, we're glad you got rid of the rules problems... /s :)
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MattLee

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4168 on: March 18, 2018, 12:51:04 am »
+1

Donald, most sets have one of two cards like council room that help your opponents in some way, but never too many in one set. Would too many of these cards in one set be a problem for gameplay, or otherwise be unpopular, or is it just one of those things Dominion hasn't done?
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Donald X.

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4169 on: March 18, 2018, 04:45:39 pm »
+14

Donald, most sets have one of two cards like council room that help your opponents in some way, but never too many in one set. Would too many of these cards in one set be a problem for gameplay, or otherwise be unpopular, or is it just one of those things Dominion hasn't done?
I was going to say that "War" originally did this - it was interaction themed - but only two of the cards were flat-out that (Council Room itself and a shared Throne Room). Then it had an Trade Route, an attack that gave them Copper to hand, interactive cards that just get information, and of course attacks.

I do think those cards tend to be unpopular. Well they are unpopular among the group that talks loudly online. We always enjoy it when there's e.g. Sacred Grove in a game and it means that you'll be randomly getting some Boons from other players. But some people are all "I'd be such a fool if I helped them win" and shun that family of cards. The cards end up looking bad when they're fair.

I do them anyway in small quantities because they provide non-attack player interaction and well surely someone else likes them.
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weesh

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4170 on: March 18, 2018, 08:14:14 pm »
+5

I do think those cards tend to be unpopular. Well they are unpopular among the group that talks loudly online. We always enjoy it when there's e.g. Sacred Grove in a game and it means that you'll be randomly getting some Boons from other players.

Count me as one of the guys that likes them.
Since I design kingdoms for my play groups, I can put sacred grove in a kingdom with zero other ways to gain cards, to encourage people to use it...but sadly, if I don't do that, they will not buy the grove :(

But then, i'm the kind of guy that played werewolf, as a werewolf, and convinced the werewolves to stop eating people, and convinced the towns people to stop their witch hunt...
So i'm not a great stand-in for the average gamer.
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MattLee

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4171 on: March 18, 2018, 11:36:46 pm »
+3

For what its worth I LOVE those kinds of cards, they are my favorites. But I can certainly see why some people don't.
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cascadestyler

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4172 on: March 19, 2018, 09:00:38 am »
+4

I do think those cards tend to be unpopular. Well they are unpopular among the group that talks loudly online. We always enjoy it when there's e.g. Sacred Grove in a game and it means that you'll be randomly getting some Boons from other players. But some people are all "I'd be such a fool if I helped them win" and shun that family of cards. The cards end up looking bad when they're fair.

I do them anyway in small quantities because they provide non-attack player interaction and well surely someone else likes them.

I don't think that's quite true. Governor is a clear counter-example. Top players and the forum crowd love Governor, and the friendly interaction is what makes it so interesting and difficult. It's also very strong, but then Bishop is a good example of a friendly interactive card that's generally liked despite being mid-strength. Bishop is very interesting because it's occasionally a powerhouse and the crux of a good strategy, but often it's not as powerful as it looks, and you need to be very careful about the friendly interaction.

Generally, I don't think there's a dislike for friendly interactive cards among the top players and forum posters. Yes, they're not all filling the top of the Qvist rankings, but those are power rankings, not rankings of how much we appreciate the cards as interesting and fun additions to dominion. Yes, very weak cards tend to be disliked, but so do overpowered ones. As well as Governor and Bishop, Lost City is a friendly interactive card that is very appreciated by skilled players, and the interaction is, once again, a huge part of that. Deciding at what points in the game the interaction is most helpful to your opponents and therefore what points are bad times to buy lost city is difficult and interesting. Council Room is generally considered weak, yes, but it's not disliked. Nobody raves about Duchess, but again that's nothing to do with the friendly interaction, it's just a fairly weak card in most situations. Vault and Embassy are friendly interactive cards that used to be a bit panned by some sections of the community, but that's because they were viewed as overpowered BM enablers just like JoaT was. The dislike was unrelated to the friendly interaction. And those dislikes have mostly gone away as BM has become less relevant. Messenger isn't a favourite but I've not seen anyone point out the friendly interaction as a problem. Often it's quite cool. Yes, Sacred Grove isn't liked by high-level players, but that's not really because it has a friendly interaction, it's because that friendly interaction is unpredictable and swingy. People dislike Swindler for similar reasons.

I guess I'm saying, next time you're designing a set, I'd be sad to think that you were considering friendly interactions only as something for the casual players and that won't be appreciated by the hardcore, just because Sacred Grove hasn't gone down a storm with the latter group. My observations of forum posting (which lines up with my own opinions on the cards) is that top level players actually quite like friendly interactions and see them as interesting and challenging, they just don't like it when that friendly interaction is unpredictable and swingy, which the boons when received off-turn certainly are, more than hexes off-turn and boons on-turn (the normal way round to get them), and probably more so than hexes on-turn (from Cursed Village, which is also a friendly interaction I suppose - hexing yourself is helping your opponents (though this could open up a huge can of worms as to what a friendly interaction actually is so don't hold me to this semantic judgement) - and Cursed Village is another generally liked card.)
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jsh357

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4173 on: March 19, 2018, 09:06:25 am »
+1

Top players don't love governor. It's one of the most frequently appearing cards on lists of that most disliked. ("Top players" is also not a uniform group in any way. Some of them even like swindler, the heathens)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 09:07:42 am by jsh357 »
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Fuu

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Re: Interview with Donald X.
« Reply #4174 on: March 19, 2018, 09:51:31 am »
0

Donald, I'm champing at the bit to get Cornucopia/Guilds. Is there any update on the expected date this will be available for purchase? Thank you!
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